White House will hang ‘impeach Bush’ ornament on its Christmas tree.
By on Dec 2nd, 2008 at 11:37 am
White House will hang ‘impeach Bush’ ornament on its Christmas tree.
When Laura Bush asked members of Congress to pick local artists to decorate the White House Christmas tree, Rep. Jim McDermott (D-WA) turned to a local arts organization who assigned the task to Deborah Lawrence. The Seattle-based artist said, “I was at first nauseated, then realized it was an opportunity to highlight Jim McDermott because he’s a hero of mine.” So Lawrence, who frequently combines politics and satire in her work, covered a nine-inch ball “with swirly red and white stripes — and, in tiny glued-on text, salutes the Democratic congressman’s support for a resolution to impeach President Bush.” (HT: HuffPost)
UpdateMore from Wonkette.
UpdateThe White House won't hang the ornament after all. Sally McDonough, a spokeswoman for the first lady, confirmed the ornament would not be displayed. "It's inappropriate and it's not being hung," she said.
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Cue reich-wing outrage in 5...4...3...2...1...
December 2nd, 2008 at 11:39 amWhy not just hang Bush on the tree? He's been an ornament of the right-wing all along, albeit an ugly one.
PEACE
December 2nd, 2008 at 11:40 amNow this is a War on Christmas I can believe in.
December 2nd, 2008 at 11:43 amIMPEACHMENT? WE'RE WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY PAST THE IMPEACHMENT STAGE
December 2nd, 2008 at 11:47 amPRICELESS!
December 2nd, 2008 at 11:48 ama perfect metaphor for "democracy" in america today... amidst an orgy of consumerism in the dark, dank chamber of the financial dungeon of doom... stands the mighty der weihnachtsbaum, o tannenbaum; decorated with "a nine-inch ball 'with swirly red and white stripes — and, in tiny glued-on text, salutes the Democratic congressman’s support for a resolution to impeach President Bush.'"
drink in the image with a little eggnog, climb under the covers, and wait for the gifts that obamasanta brings.
December 2nd, 2008 at 11:50 amThe American public would like to see Cheney's balls hanging on that tree, as well.
...and Alberto's
...and Rumsfeld's
...and Wolfowitz's
...and Feith's
...and Rice's (ooops!)
December 2nd, 2008 at 11:54 amLaura could also hang from the tree that peace (of sh¡t) medal that the over inflated preacher gave Bush.
¶ AIO
December 2nd, 2008 at 11:57 amBush, Cheney, Rove, Mukasey. They all find it amusing and quaint that many people in this Country find their reprehensible, criminal behavior deserving of impeachments and jail time. Cheney relishes in beind perceived as some kind of Lord of Darkness, Mukasey boldly keeps a portrait of Orwell on his office wall. Rove has chuckled that he fully expects to be indicted by the end of the year. They find humour in what they have done to our Country, our reputation, our Constitution and all the laws eagerly broken in the name of PNAC and the Republican Party. Their cavalier demeanor can be read either as confidence that they will never face justice or they are projecting this attitude to help convince the general public that they have done nothing wrong and it's just those damned liberal loonies looking for a witch hunt. Prosecuting these criminals and their willing abettors with extreme predjudice is THE ONLY way to ensure that future Presidents work within the rule of law and DO NOT overstep their Constitutionally edowed powers. This is most definitely NOT an instance where ignoring the consequences of breaking the law can be seen as a way to heal this Nation by turning the page and moving forward. If Obama loves the Constitution half as much as he has led us to believe, he finds it as sickening as many here do that our leaders have been shitting on it for the last eight years.
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:02 pmAll I want for Christmas is to see George weep...
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:03 pmJim's my rep...you go guy.
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:06 pmIf it's not throwing pies or bags of urine, it's sneaking ornaments onto Christmas trees. The liberal repository of juvenile antics is endless.
Hope and Change, indeed.
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:06 pmI have reported Spencers Mom and Uncle Ho to the Secret service. I hate Bush too but calling for his death is beyond.
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:12 pmPotfry Says:
If it’s not throwing pies or bags of urine, it’s sneaking ornaments onto Christmas trees. The liberal repository of juvenile antics is endless.
No one is sneaking an ornament onto the tree, idiot.
The idiocy of Republinut trolls knows no boundaries...
Concerned Community Organizer Says:
Go Cheney yourself, neocon scumbag.
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:19 pmWhat would you expect from a WH occupied by a doofus who doesn't bother with details, but instead just follows his "gut".
DO THEY EVEN BOTHER TO CHECK THE DONATED ORNAMENTS FOR DANGEROUS MATERIAL?????
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:22 pmConcerned Community Organizer Says:
I have reported Spencers Mom and Uncle Ho to the Secret service.
What spencers mom said is just humor.
What Uncle Ho said is deep in the memory hole now, Nark.
¶ AIO
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:24 pmCmon, Wayne. You can do better than that. Republinut? I mean, is that your best?
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:26 pmConcerned Community Organizer Says:
Stick to just bringing the green bean casserole.
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:26 pmRepublinut?
'Tis the season...
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:32 pmIt may be too late to impeach, but never too late to EXECUTE the idiot!
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:46 pmSmallPotfry,
Yeah, those liburals are sure darn sneaky, aren't they.
Like the time in 2000 when they "popped" out all the W's from the White House keyboards, and downloaded all sorts of porn, and then trashed the place.
Wait.
That never happened, did it?
Never mind.
Oh, and Concerned Community Organizer (aka, the poster who's afraid of the scary black man),
GROW A PAIR!!!
Happy Holidays!
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:47 pmPotfry Says:
I mean, is that your best?
Lame, you are just too lame.
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:51 pmWhy don't you try to hurt us some more by calling us "liberals" again...
Potfry Says:
The liberal repository of juvenile antics is endless.
I know, I know, caring about the Constitution is one of those riotously funny issues, a truly rich source of jokes.
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:53 pmNevar Says:
Concerned Community Organizer Says:
Stick to just bringing the green bean casserole.
Hilarious
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:56 pm**High five to Raven
All I can say is that I'd strongly recommend Deborah Lawrence make several copies. I get the feeling her ornament will somehow, unfortunately, uncannily keep getting broken by WH staff.....
December 2nd, 2008 at 1:07 pmYes, let's hang Bush himself on the tree -- like an ornament, he has uselessly "decorated" the white house.
December 2nd, 2008 at 1:26 pmIf she had any courage along with McDermott she would have make it obvious instead of the cowardly small text.
December 2nd, 2008 at 1:32 pmThe list of indictments is rather long, hence the small type.
December 2nd, 2008 at 1:35 pmIt wouldn't do to have a 9 foot diameter ornament, now would it?
No need to list the BS indictments...how about just saying "IMPEACH BUSH" in bold letters?
December 2nd, 2008 at 1:40 pmIMPEACH BUSH!
Like that?
December 2nd, 2008 at 1:42 pmI like it, you're starting to come around Tracy 5, maybe by the time you're 9 or 10 you'll get it...
Well considering only a 9 or 10 year old would think that putting such an immature thing on a Christmas ornament would be funny, I am now wondering...are you 9 or ten years old?
December 2nd, 2008 at 1:46 pmYou're the only one so far who seems to think it's funny...
December 2nd, 2008 at 1:52 pmBTW why couldn't McDermott get an artist who knows what Christmas is actually about?
December 2nd, 2008 at 1:53 pmNavar, would that be Tracy is 9 or 10 brick's short.?..LOL.Great post's as alway's..Blessings
December 2nd, 2008 at 1:54 pmYou mean like celebrating the birth of some kid born in a stable because his dad had to go register for taxation?
December 2nd, 2008 at 1:56 pmTracy__5 Says:
If she had any courage along with McDermott she would have make it obvious instead of the cowardly small text.
Maybe she should have used shorter words too, so you could understand what they meant. But she did not think of your reading comprehension issues when she made the ornament. For shame.
December 2nd, 2008 at 1:59 pm"You’re the only one so far who seems to think it’s funny…"
Oh, I am sure that Deborah Lawrence thought it was a rather funny inside joke because if she was serious and wanted to make a couragous political statement she wouldn't have been so obscure with her design.
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:00 pmGood Morning Wayne, good to read you here...Blessings
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:01 pmTracy__5 Says:
BTW why couldn’t McDermott get an artist who knows what Christmas is actually about?
December 2nd, 2008 at 1:53 pm
_______
Somehow I doubt the White House would want a pagan solstice ornament on their tree...
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:02 pmMaybe she forgot that George only likes stuff with big printing and lots of pictures of goats and stuff.
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:02 pm"You mean like celebrating the birth of some kid born in a stable because his dad had to go register for taxation?"
No.
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:02 pmOh, then you mean maxing out the credit cards buying gifts for people because you have to, and getting all stupid and drunk at the Christmas party?
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:04 pmSomehow I doubt the White House would want a pagan solstice ornament on their tree…
Like little people with wings, pointy ears and leering grins?
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:08 pm;)
"But she did not think of your reading comprehension issues when she made the ornament."
No she was pretty much a coward and disrespectful for thinking that would be an appropriate design.
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:17 pm"Somehow I doubt the White House would want a pagan solstice ornament on their tree…"
Or the rest country for that matter, although the few regular jerks who relish in this type of thing are always going to be out there.
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:21 pmJebus. Looks like the Repuke trolls are getting their second wind.
And yes, Tracy_5, I include you in the term "Repuke trolls"...
Happy Holidays, sweetie.
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:21 pm"Oh, then you mean maxing out the credit cards buying gifts for people because you have to, and getting all stupid and drunk at the Christmas party?"
No...do you want some help?
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:22 pm"Happy Holidays, sweetie."
See?....even Annie doesn't get it.
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:24 pmAll the Tracy trolls have anymore is picayune quibbles. No substance, no solutions, no contributions. Some things won't change.
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:26 pmTell us what Christmas is all about Tracy 5!
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:27 pm"Tell us what Christmas is all about Tracy 5!"
Even you should know...even if you are 9 or 10.
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:31 pm"No substance, no solutions, no contributions."
This site isn't about those things....in case you haven't noticed.
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:32 pmBy golly, you've gotten me all fired up with Christmas joy, Tracy 5, I'm heading for Wal-Mart right now!
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:36 pmShould I wear my spiked heels?
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:42 pmHow about a couple of ornaments filled with gasoline? When Boy George flips the switch to light the tree, it would shower the petulant punk and bring the gift that so many Americans want for Christmas.
Oh shit. Now Concerned Crybaby is going to report me to the principal.
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:46 pmGuys, Guys, hanging an ornament that is Anti-Bush in the Whitehouse is just as appropriate as sending Hannukah cards of carting in the yule log to the WH.
December 2nd, 2008 at 3:13 pm"By golly, you’ve gotten me all fired up with Christmas joy, Tracy 5, I’m heading for Wal-Mart right now!"
To steal the money out Salvation Army's contribution pot?....wouldn't suprise me.
December 2nd, 2008 at 3:52 pmWal-Mart doesn't allow any outside entities in or around it's storefronts.
December 2nd, 2008 at 4:08 pmShows how much you know about Christmas...
Why are Christians so easily upset by those who don't believe in their Christ Fairy? Why are they so insecure?
If you really believed the you can fly to heaven by saddling up the Jesus Stallion, you wouldn't jump to the defense so quickly. Who are you trying to convince? The non-believers or yourselves?
Thou dost protesteth waaay too much
December 2nd, 2008 at 4:13 pm"Wal-Mart doesn’t allow any outside entities in or around it’s storefronts. Shows how much you know about Christmas…"
Yes they do. I was just at Wal-Mart getting some oil and filter for my car this past weekend and the guy ringing the bell asking for donations for the Salvation Army was right at the front.
December 2nd, 2008 at 4:14 pmDid you remember to ask for your employee discount?
December 2nd, 2008 at 4:20 pm"Why are Christians so easily upset by those who don’t believe in their Christ Fairy?"
Why is it so hard for those who don't to just show some respect for those who do?
December 2nd, 2008 at 4:21 pm"Why are Christians so easily upset by those who don’t believe in their Christ Fairy? Why are they so insecure?"
Because way deep down they have serious doubts, and suspect they have bought into a fairy tale.
(I'm not referring to Christians that understand and espouse the enlightened teachings of Jesus the Nazarene, and who also accept that the human race has had numerous enlightened teachers.)
December 2nd, 2008 at 4:25 pm"Did you remember to ask for your employee discount?"
I didn't know they had an employee discount because I don't work at Wal-Mart; although you must work there, did at one point, or know someone who does to know about it. BTW where did you read in you or your friend's employee manual that the Salvation Army or other entities aren't allowed to set up at the entrance? You weren't under the dilusion this entire time that Wal-Mart is a government owned and run company were you?
December 2nd, 2008 at 4:33 pmPotfry Says:
While the conservative repository of outright venality, stupidity, and depravity knows no bounds. Keep up the good work morons. I am happy to see you brainwashed zombies go the way of the Whig party
December 2nd, 2008 at 4:35 pmI'm just messin' wit yas, Tracy... you're not the swiftest troll under the bridge are you?
December 2nd, 2008 at 4:36 pm"You weren’t under the dilusion this entire time that Wal-Mart is a government owned and run company were you?"
Certainly not. You've got the situation inverted.
December 2nd, 2008 at 4:38 pm"Because way deep down they have serious doubts, and suspect they have bought into a fairy tale."
Real Christians have no doubts, but they do get offended when bigots don't have the decency to show a common respect to those who do believe that Christ is the Son of God.
December 2nd, 2008 at 4:38 pmAre you a Real Christian, tracy 5?
December 2nd, 2008 at 4:43 pm"Certainly not. You’ve got the situation inverted."
I am not the one who falsely thought that Wal-Mart didn't allow outside entities at their stores to collect charity.
December 2nd, 2008 at 4:43 pm"Are you a Real Christian, tracy 5?"
Yes. Why do you ask?
December 2nd, 2008 at 4:45 pmTrying to get you to make a direct statement of position.
December 2nd, 2008 at 4:47 pmI respect that.
Real Christians have no doubts...
That probably says a lot more than you would care to admit Tracy, and is precisely my problem with (some) religious people. That absolute certainty, the blind eye to facts and logic leaks over into their non-religious view of the world. Black or white boy, what's it going to be?
It would be easier to put your faith in a symbol and stop trying to figure out how and why the world works but I find that simple appproach intellectually and spiritually cheap.
And I am not a bigot. I poke fun at ALL religions, including the FSM.
December 2nd, 2008 at 5:00 pmHi Tracy_5
December 2nd, 2008 at 5:04 pmHow have you been? As the "knower" of all things Christmas might you explain to me the obsession with poisonous plants this time of year? Thanks
Any religion that cannot withstand commentary on it's idiosynchrosies and dogma will only survive through fear, intimidation, and control of its subjects.
December 2nd, 2008 at 5:06 pm"Trying to get you to make a direct statement of position.
I respect that."
But you don't think that the Deborah Lawrence's ornament that she submitted on behalf of McDermott for the White House Christmas tree is in poor taste or disrespectful in any way? I mean it's even has a picture of that zero class bafoon McDermott on it. I wonder if any of the other designs were in worse taste than this one.
December 2nd, 2008 at 5:07 pmI'll leave you to slog on with this particular denseness, dbadass, I'm going to go put up the Christmas lights this afternoon.
December 2nd, 2008 at 5:08 pmI still have butterflies and grasshoppers out and about!
I already know you have cooler orthopterians than I and I am also sure your lepidopterans way kick the ass of mine. Enjoy Nevar!
December 2nd, 2008 at 5:27 pmorthopterans...
December 2nd, 2008 at 5:28 pm"As the “knower” of all things Christmas might you explain to me the obsession with poisonous plants this time of year?"
I am not the "knower" of all things Christmas. This thing with mistle toe is just another myth like Santa Claus. I think it was used in Celtic rituals according to this site....
http://landscaping.about.com/cs/winterlandscaping1/a/mistletoe.htm
December 2nd, 2008 at 5:33 pm#74
"That absolute certainty, the blind eye to facts and logic leaks over into their non-religious view of the world."
That is why it's called faith....it's way too complicated to explain to some people.
"but I find that simple appproach intellectually and spiritually cheap."
Trying to explain the unexplainable thru man's feabile secular explainations I find pathetically vain.
"And I am not a bigot. I poke fun at ALL religions, including the FSM."
Hard to believe when being a bigot has much to do with being an equal opportunity offender.
December 2nd, 2008 at 5:44 pmShe should mass-produce them. I'd bet that she'd make out just fine.
December 2nd, 2008 at 5:48 pm"Any religion that cannot withstand commentary on it’s idiosynchrosies and dogma will only survive through fear, intimidation, and control of its subjects"
Amen! That is the problem with all religious extremists...Christian, Islamic, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, ect....although the poor taste and disrespectfulness of Deborah Lawrence's Christmas ornament design has nothing to do with warranted so-called "commentary".
December 2nd, 2008 at 5:54 pmI am not an offending bigot, I just play one on the net.
Seriously Tracy, I respect everyone's faith and the right to believe however they wish. Don't mistake a little fun poking as a serious challenge.
The non-believers are subjects of scorn and hatred, we are the minority most universally disliked. The extremists of different religions throw rocks at each other but nothing unites a Christian and a Muslim like having an atheist in the room.
Here's wishing you and your family a happy and peaceful Whatever the Hell You Want to Call It.
December 2nd, 2008 at 6:13 pmSorry Tracy_5:
It must have been this that made me mistakenly think you thought you knew.
Tracy__5 Says:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BTW why couldn’t McDermott get an artist who knows what Christmas is actually about?
December 2nd, 2008 at 1:53 pm Recommend (0) | Report Abuse
December 2nd, 2008 at 6:30 pm---
So the mistletoe and santa are myths but the barnyard oddity is fact? Is that the gig?
"Seriously Tracy, I respect everyone’s faith and the right to believe however they wish. Don’t mistake a little fun poking as a serious challenge"
Poking fun is one thing, but saying that Christian's faith is a fairy tale is extremely insulting and bigoted.
"The non-believers are subjects of scorn and hatred, we are the minority most universally disliked."
By the extremists.
"...but nothing unites a Christian and a Muslim like having an atheist in the room."
Slight correction an extremist Christian and Muslim. True Christians at least know that it is not for them to judge others evidenced by the fact that most Christian congregations would never say "Get Lost" to a non-believer such as yourself.
December 2nd, 2008 at 6:46 pmWell said Tracy. You were certainly reasoned in this thread
December 2nd, 2008 at 6:56 pmSo Tracy_5:
December 2nd, 2008 at 6:57 pmWould those same true Christian congregations tell bit and Daryll and their ilk to chill with the whole gay thing?
"although the poor taste and disrespectfulness of Deborah Lawrence’s Christmas ornament design has nothing to do with warranted so-called “commentary”."
-----
December 2nd, 2008 at 7:01 pmI was also wondering if Tracy_5 might condemn the VA GOP chair's characterization of the next POTUS as Bin Laden as being in poor taste?
“Any religion that cannot withstand commentary on it’s idiosynchrosies and dogma will only survive through fear, intimidation, and control of its subjects”
Tracy5:L "Amen! That is the problem with all religious extremists…Christian, Islamic, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, ect….although the poor taste and disrespectfulness of Deborah Lawrence’s Christmas ornament design has nothing to do with warranted so-called “commentary”."
You'll have to leave the Buddhists out of the extremist category. Buddhism is not in actuality a religion.
You're just rattling off names of religious and/or spiritual practices, you know little of what you speak.
I'll agree that a Christmas tree ornament is hardly the place to make a civil statement regarding law, order, and justice.
Could you please explain the sanctity of a tree ornament with regards to your seasonal religious beliefs?
December 2nd, 2008 at 7:19 pm"It must have been this that made me mistakenly think you thought you knew."
I do know that the mistletoe, Santa Clause, ect... have nothing to do with Chistmas...why you didn't you know, I have no idea.
"So the mistletoe and santa are myths but the barnyard oddity is fact? Is that the gig?"
No. Why you think that faith equals fact?
December 2nd, 2008 at 7:19 pmSeems to me that the mistletoe and santa are in fact a part of this deal. That's why they are here this time of year each year? Hello, if they weren't a part of it, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I suppose next you'll anounce that the tree that most folks buy has nothing to do with it either. Anyway I would be more interested in your thoughts as to #'s 89 and 90. Thanks
December 2nd, 2008 at 7:21 pm"Would those same true Christian congregations tell bit and Daryll and their ilk to chill with the whole gay thing?"
Mine would.
December 2nd, 2008 at 7:25 pm"I was also wondering if Tracy_5 might condemn the VA GOP chair’s characterization of the next POTUS as Bin Laden as being in poor taste?"
Absolutely. Who was it BTW?
December 2nd, 2008 at 7:26 pmTracy_5 @ 94.
December 2nd, 2008 at 7:28 pmI respect that. Still I can't help but notice that you never speak up as to that yet I have seen you on numerous ocassions judge others when it comes to economic issues. If my memory serves you have judged immigrants, welfare receipients, low skilled laborers and so on. I am not trying to be a jerk but just looking for consistency.
Absolutely. Who was it BTW?
---
December 2nd, 2008 at 7:29 pmjust scroll up a few and you may share your condemnation with all of these series of tubes users.
"You’ll have to leave the Buddhists out of the extremist category. Buddhism is not in actuality a religion."
To most it is. To some it isn't.
"Could you please explain the sanctity of a tree ornament with regards to your seasonal religious beliefs?"
As far as I know, there is no sanctity in the actual ornaments unless they have Christ's cross on them, but the Chistmas Tree is a Christian religious symbol that has been adopted to symbolize Christ's birth so it doesn't seem appropriate to me to have an ornament on a Christmas tree that has political connotations.
December 2nd, 2008 at 7:49 pm"Seems to me that the mistletoe and santa are in fact a part of this deal. That’s why they are here this time of year each year?"
I have yet to hear any references spoken or otherwist in my church to mistletoe or Santa Claus.
"I suppose next you’ll anounce that the tree that most folks buy has nothing to do with it either."
The Christmas tree is a Christian religious symbol representing the birth of Christ. It's pretty simple. The gift giving and Santa Claus thing has nothing to do with the true meaning of Christmas.
December 2nd, 2008 at 7:54 pmSince when is the tree a Christian symbol? Since they needed to find a way to explain away it's nonchristian ancestry? Got kids? Do you tell them an little illegitimate kid drops by to give em shit made in China? Still I am more interested in why I have never seen you speak up to the christian driven haters and why you have judged others when it has to do with your tax dollars. I suppose the big old pagan bunny is some sort of christian symbol as well and what about them eggs. They sure as hell can't represent the gametes of christ.
December 2nd, 2008 at 7:59 pm"I have seen you on numerous ocassions judge others when it comes to economic issues."
So goes the fact that I am an impefect human and a sinner.
"If my memory serves you have judged immigrants, welfare receipients, low skilled laborers and so on."
If your memory serves how did I "judge" these people you are referring to?
December 2nd, 2008 at 8:04 pm"series of tubes users."
????
December 2nd, 2008 at 8:04 pmWell if the first rebuttal is honest, the second question need not be asked... Mostly when it comes to wallet issues, the impression you have given in the past is not overly christian in my understanding of christianity. So why is it that you are not troubled by the likes of bit and Daryll as to their unchristian stances. I would really appreciate seeing honest christians like yourselves stand up and remind them of the judge not issue. I think you would earn mucho respect from many. Last I checked you had not condemned the VA GOP chair at this forum.
December 2nd, 2008 at 8:08 pm"Since when is the tree a Christian symbol?"
I was adopted by most Chistians. The fact that it was considered a pagan symbol by most colonists doesn't make it less of one today.
"Do you tell them an little illegitimate kid drops by to give em shit made in China?"
No.
"Still I am more interested in why I have never seen you speak up to the christian driven haters..."
I don't even read Daryll's posts and certainly never respond to them. Why do you guys respond to him at all?
"...and why you have judged others when it has to do with your tax dollars."
Precicely because it has to do with my hard earned money. Should I say nothing when I see it being spent irresponsibly year after year?
"I suppose the big old pagan bunny is some sort of christian symbol as well and what about them eggs."
I don't think it is.
"They sure as hell can’t represent the gametes of christ."
You sure make a lot of ill informed assumptions at my expense. Why?
December 2nd, 2008 at 8:12 pmthey are neither ill informed nor at your expense.
"I was adopted by most Chistians. The fact that it was considered a pagan symbol by most colonists doesn’t make it less of one today."
Huh?
December 2nd, 2008 at 8:17 pm"Mostly when it comes to wallet issues, the impression you have given in the past is not overly christian in my understanding of christianity."
I don't have a problem with helping the poor and those who need help. I just want a government that rewards hard work and not by giving long lists of entitlements.
"So why is it that you are not troubled by the likes of bit and Daryll as to their unchristian stances."
Again I don't read their posts. You and others here would be well advised not to respond as to give him legitimacy here.
"I would really appreciate seeing honest christians like yourselves stand up and remind them of the judge not issue. I think you would earn mucho respect from many."
Yes and I would really appreciate you and others to put a beat down on the likes of jerks like RHF with their constant personal insults.
"Last I checked you had not condemned the VA GOP chair at this forum."
I never posted in the thread where this was topic. I can't post everywhere.
December 2nd, 2008 at 8:20 pmWhere have you been? Most folks I have seen carry no rhf water.
It takes two seconds to go upstairs a few and take a stand on the VA GOP chair. If you are sincere about what you claim you are, evidence is more convincing than words. Call the right on the carpet if you believe this action to be wrong.
December 2nd, 2008 at 8:27 pm"they are neither ill informed nor at your expense."
Was it not your ill informed assumption that I throw around the Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny garbage to my kids?
"I was adopted by most Chistians. The fact that it was considered a pagan symbol by most colonists doesn’t make it less of one today.”
Huh?"
It was adopted by most Christians. The fact the it was considered a pagan symbol by most of the colonists doesn't make it an illegitimate symbol of Christ's birth.
December 2nd, 2008 at 8:27 pmI never said you did. I asked if you did.
December 2nd, 2008 at 8:32 pmDoes the fact that most historians/theologians trace it to paganism make it any less pagan? I could be wrong but I have absolutely never heard it claimed to be a symbol of christs birth. Why would a conifer which I don't really think is a super common taxonomic botanical group in the lands of the bible be a symbol of this birth. Might you please educate me with some links or historical evidences of this linkage. Thanks. I suppose the fruitcake is symbolic of some sort of family lineage. (JK)
Nevar: “Could you please explain the sanctity of a tree ornament with regards to your seasonal religious beliefs?”
Tracy 5: "As far as I know, there is no sanctity in the actual ornaments unless they have Christ’s cross on them, but the Chistmas Tree is a Christian religious symbol that has been adopted to symbolize Christ’s birth so it doesn’t seem appropriate to me to have an ornament on a Christmas tree that has political connotations.
If your religion can co-opt a "pagan" holiday symbol for it's own use, then I see no reason why others can't co-opt it for a similar purpose, that being to shed light on evil and corruption. Light it up!
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:00 am"Where have you been? Most folks I have seen carry no rhf water."
There are others like EugeneDebs, Pete, and others who constantly throw trash and you have NEVER called them out on it and you were right in the middle of the back and forth conversation to boot.
It takes two seconds to go upstairs a few and take a stand on the VA GOP chair."
If you are referring to whether or not I already condemned him....I already did, many post ago in this thread when you brought it up.
"Tracy__5 Says:
“I was also wondering if Tracy_5 might condemn the VA GOP chair’s characterization of the next POTUS as Bin Laden as being in poor taste?”
Absolutely. Who was it BTW?
December 2nd, 2008 at 7:26 pm"
"If you are sincere about what you claim you are, evidence is more convincing than words."
What evidence exactly would you like to see?
"Call the right on the carpet if you believe this action to be wrong."
?????
December 3rd, 2008 at 2:42 pmTry using the italics button to help differentiate between other posters comments, and your own responses, Tracy5.
I can't tell whether it's god or the burning bush....
December 3rd, 2008 at 2:52 pm"I could be wrong but I have absolutely never heard it claimed to be a symbol of christs birth."
I do believe you are wrong, because it's pretty obvious why it's called a Christmas Tree. It may have not been an adopted symbol since the very next year after Christ's birth, but it has been since about the 1600 when I do believe the German's introduced it. Since then just about all Christian's have adopted it as a symbol of Christ's birth and BTW it's not THE symbol, but only a symbol.
"Why would a conifer which I don’t really think is a super common taxonomic botanical group in the lands of the bible be a symbol of this birth."
See above. I am pretty sure conifers are common in southern Germany.
December 3rd, 2008 at 3:02 pm"...then I see no reason why others can’t co-opt it for a similar purpose, that being to shed light on evil and corruption."
Then I see no reason why those who disagree can't tell those who do it that they are disrespectful and vile for disrespecting the former's religion. BTW this ornament had nothing to do with shedding light on preceived evil. It was a cheap cowardly stunt by a someone who doesn't know how to show any respect to a major religion of the world. The wretch would have never done such a thing to disrespect another religion like say....Islam. Again, if she had one ounce of courage she would have taken your suggestion for the wording on the ornament and not tried to sneak it.
December 3rd, 2008 at 3:13 pmDid they decide on any Christmas ornaments at the First Council of Nicea? Or were they too busy trying to decide whether Jesus was actually a God or not?
December 3rd, 2008 at 3:13 pmTracy__5 Says: "...The wretch etc..."
That's rather disrespectful...
Your hatred is showing, Tracy 5....
Actually, I would say the artist had more courage than common sense. If she had not of mentioned what the ornament said, I doubt anyone would have ever read it. Can you imagine witless Laura Bush doing anything more than just telling the help to get the decorating over with and leave her alone?
December 3rd, 2008 at 3:22 pmThen it could of hung there all this joyous season, beaming with the promise of justice in the coming year.
Hi Tracy_5.
December 3rd, 2008 at 5:13 pmI have a neighbor who is a man of the cloth. I just asked him about this tree thing. In a nut shell he said what the hell are you talking about. The tree symbolizes nothing he claims. He is unsure where you got this idea. He sees no metaphorical connection and oddly enough he suggested that it was a ancient pagan thing that sort of just got blended in sort of like Santa and that he and his congregation have no issue with the tree or Santa or any of that shit as it is just a byproduct of all kinds of stuff. He acknowledged that some sects are neurotic about trying to find a way to justify it and such but he could point to any aspect of his training that claimed or explained any symbology. Might you be able to provide some links to support that claim of symbolism to a birth by a mature coniferous tree which we in fact kill by cutting down. I really don't see the connection
"Did they decide on any Christmas ornaments at the First Council of Nicea?"
I have no idea. Irrelevant.
"Or were they too busy trying to decide whether Jesus was actually a God or not?"
No, they already had that one figured out I am sure.
December 3rd, 2008 at 6:48 pm"That’s rather disrespectful…"
Respect is earned and it's diminished when you sho
"Your hatred is showing, Tracy 5…."
I don't hate the woman, I was just giving an accurate description of her actions in this particular instance.
Actually, I would say the artist had more courage than common sense."
No she was a coward and a sneak.
"If she had not of mentioned what the ornament said, I doubt anyone would have ever read it."
Which is why it was soo cowardly on her part. How did the Washington Post pick up on the story if she or someone else didn't leak it to the newspaper considering the words were so obscure? It's my bet that jerk McDermott said something to the WP in order to get some publicity in order to strike up some conversation with his friends who also support his call for Bush's impeachment.
"Can you imagine witless Laura Bush doing anything more than just telling the help to get the decorating over with and leave her alone?"
Well considering she actually has class, unlike Lawrence or McDermott, she wouldn't and shouldn't have to worry about this type of cheap trick.
"Then it could of hung there all this joyous season, beaming with the promise of justice in the coming year."
If you are referring to Bush actually being impeached or brought up on charges and convicted I will bet you any amount of money it doesn't happen. How much?
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:05 pmTracy_5;
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:06 pmYou might want to google that one a bit before going any further
Actually forget googling the first council stuff. It is clear you aren't real sure about that one. Can you please just tell me where you got that tree symbolism stuff as my neighbor was sort of amused by the whole thing and I'd like to be willing to offer him an explaination. Thanks
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:14 pmI was just going to suggest Tracy5 at least read Wikipedia regarding the Council of Nicea. It might help in understanding what it means to be a Real Christian.
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:18 pmEvening Nevar, I am thinking Tracy_5 is scrambling for an obtuse way to cover the clear lack of understanding of your reference which Tracy_5 has already displayed.
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:23 pmbest-
"The tree symbolizes nothing he claims."
Good for him but he is just one man.
"He is unsure where you got this idea."
Ask him WHY it is called a Christmas tree.
"Might you be able to provide some links to support that claim of symbolism to a birth by a mature coniferous tree which we in fact kill by cutting down."
I can only tell you what it means and symbolizes to many Protestants around the world and to me. It's a symbol of Christ's birth that has been adopted by millions of Christians. What you pastor friend says about it not being something he studied in his formal training is irrelevant.
http://www.catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=34135
"When gifts are arranged under the tree, the Pope continue, it because a symbol of "the tree of life, a figure of Christ, God's greatest gift to all men."
Did the Pope actually say in this link that the Christmas tree symbolized Christ's birth? No...but I will bet you if you asked him directly if it does he would probably say "Yes".
Common sense would tell anyone that the Christmas tree represents and/or symbolizes Christ's birth from the simple fact that it is erected specifically around the world recognized date of his birth.
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:26 pm"You might want to google that one a bit before going any further"
What?...specifically.
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:27 pmEvening as well. If Tracy 5 spent as much time dissembling and dissecting and reinterpreting Bible verses as he/she does our posts, we would have little to banter about here! Such fun!
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:28 pmTracy 5 sure has a thing for the tree business.... obsess much?
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:29 pmBlasphemy! The tree of Life was a religious symbol of life long before Jehovah was a glimmer in man's imagination!
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:32 pmRepent ye viper!
“You might want to google that one a bit before going any further”
What?…specifically.
The First Council of Nicea
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:34 pm"It is clear you aren’t real sure about that one."
Clear about what?...specifically.
"Can you please just tell me where you got that tree symbolism stuff as my neighbor was sort of amused by the whole thing and I’d like to be willing to offer him an explaination."
Ask him to go to a Protestant church and ask another pastor and the member of the congregation if they think the Christmas tree symbolizes Christ's birth.
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:34 pmgoogle the first council for god's sake. Damn!
So the bottom line is that you still can't show any evidence that the stupid f ucking tree is claimed by anyone but you to be a symbol of the birth of christ. Whose birth date by the way it took the christians a hell of a long tme to agree on. For such a god damned important event you would have thought they might have been able to figure out when it happened
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:36 pm"It might help in understanding what it means to be a Real Christian."
Knowing the history of the council itself is pretty much irrelevant to what the Nicene Creed means.
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:36 pm"If Tracy 5 spent as much time dissembling and dissecting and reinterpreting Bible verses as he/she does our posts"
Reinterpreting? Examples?
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:37 pmSo riddle me this. If all these protestants are all into this tree that we cut down and kill is our symbol of birth shit, how come the best you can do is a barely and by your own admission inconclusive reference by a catholic? It is this sort of shit that forces me to continue to call bullshit
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:39 pmHow could it be irrelevant? It is the council which created it.
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:39 pmBesides, you are missing the point of the council in the first place. It was to unite to feuding 6 or 7 "Christian" factions, at the behest of the Roman Emperor, to codify the dogma into one easy to implement package. They had made up a lot of stuff about Jesus in the 300 or so years since his death, and it needed to get organized.
"Blasphemy! The tree of Life was a religious symbol of life long before Jehovah was a glimmer in man’s imagination!
Repent ye viper!"
Relevance to the symbolism of the Christmas tree? As far as I know most fruit trees are not coniferous.
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:43 pmHeres the thing Tracy_5. Yes the protestants get some credit for the mainstream coopting of the well recognized pagan origins of the tree crap. The problem is your claim that it symbolizes something. When you show me some evidence that the dogma of that sect has a documented claim that the tree that I might remind you again is killed by those who follow the tradition is a direct symbol of the birth of christ. I will acknowledge your wisdom on the subject. Till then it is coopted friggin tree
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:47 pm"Relevance to the symbolism of the Christmas tree? As far as I know most fruit trees are not coniferous."
Up until this little gem I halfway took you seriously.
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:54 pmSo long pal.
The Bible is the words of men. Written by men, for men.
There is some good stuff in there from enlightened individuals, and a lot of fabrications as well.
Merry Holidays!
"So the bottom line is that you still can’t show any evidence that the stupid f ucking tree is claimed by anyone but you to be a symbol of the birth of christ."
I have hundreds of fellow congregation members that will be happy to tell you otherwise. BTW I thought that you were only really interested in what I belived/thought so why are you getting you little panties in a wad about me producing a link?
Explain this...why is it called Christmas tree and why is it only erected around the recognized date of Christ's birth?
"It is this sort of shit that forces me to continue to call bullshit"
At this point, you not being a Christian and all, your opinion about what you think the Christmas tree symbolizes, is becoming more and more irrelevant to this discussion. Again you said specifically that you were interested in what I thought/believed. I suggest you stop getting all flustered before you blow a gasket, because next time you will get to old LOL!
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:55 pm“He is unsure where you got this idea.”
Ask him WHY it is called a Christmas tree.
------
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:58 pmAlright genius. Explain to me what the symbolism of the christmas cactus is. Does putting the word christmas in front of anything make it a symbol of christs birth. Atleast must people try to keep their cactus symbols of the barnyard birth alive for a little while. Do all these protestants get a little weirded out when they throw their birth symbol in the dump or on the burn pile around 1/2 each year. What about those protestants that put their birthy tree on the curb for the garbage man?
"How could it be irrelevant?"
Explain the relevance the history of the council has to helping out with what it means to be a follower of Christ.
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:58 pmI don't really care what YOU believe. I simply want you to show where protestantism says the tree is a simple of the birth. The fact that many christians sects coopted a prior tradition is well recognized. The discussion here is of symbolism and not tradition. This could all have been avoiuded by calling it is. A tradition and not a symbol.
December 3rd, 2008 at 8:01 pm"Yes the protestants get some credit for the mainstream coopting of the well recognized pagan origins of the tree crap."
Why do you intentionally have to drop down to the level of those jerks who throw the insults at Christianity?
"The problem is your claim that it symbolizes something."
Again I thought you were interested in what I thought/believed?
"Till then it is coopted friggin tree"
That is your IRRELEVANT opinion. LOL!...told you not to do it.
December 3rd, 2008 at 8:03 pmTracy__5 Says:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“Blasphemy! The tree of Life was a religious symbol of life long before Jehovah was a glimmer in man’s imagination!
Repent ye viper!”
Relevance to the symbolism of the Christmas tree? As far as I know most fruit trees are not coniferous.
---
December 3rd, 2008 at 8:05 pmThis is so freakin' lame. The cone is a fruit my friend. See the wind carries the pollen which fertilizes these eggs which become become those cool little diploid snacks we call pinenuts. I see botany is not a strength either
“Yes the protestants get some credit for the mainstream coopting of the well recognized pagan origins of the tree crap.”
Why do you intentionally have to drop down to the level of those jerks who throw the insults at Christianity?
---
December 3rd, 2008 at 8:06 pmHow is this statement insulting?
"Up until this little gem I halfway took you seriously.
So long pal."
You are the one quoting irrelevant bible passages.
"The Bible is the words of men. Written by men, for men.
Your opinion now is even more irrelevant that dbadass's LOL!
December 3rd, 2008 at 8:07 pm"I don’t really care what YOU believe."
Then why in the world did you specifically say you were?
"I simply want you to show where protestantism says the tree is a simple of the birth."
Why does it have to be documented?
"This could all have been avoiuded by calling it is. A tradition and not a symbol."
Hey, it's a symbol for me and many others. When I see a Christmas tree I immediately think of Christ's birthday as do many others. If you don't think it's true I suggest that you go to a Protestant church and ask around....they will let you in so don't worry.
December 3rd, 2008 at 8:14 pmWhat about those protestants that put their birthy tree on the curb for the garbage man?
It served it's purpose.
Explain to me what the symbolism of the christmas cactus is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y
December 3rd, 2008 at 8:17 pm"The cone is a fruit my friend."
Fruit trees in the commonly used term, i.e. apple trees, pear trees, peach trees, ect....
December 3rd, 2008 at 8:22 pm"How is this statement insulting?"
If you don't know recognize....then never mind.
December 3rd, 2008 at 8:24 pmTracy_5.
December 3rd, 2008 at 8:27 pmOn what grounds do you get to be the determiner of relevance?
“I simply want you to show where protestantism says the tree is a simple of the birth.”
Why does it have to be documented?
--- beacause you said it was so. Are you know acknoeldging that it is not. Damn this is idiotic. Since when can you claim that a religious sect has a stated position and than claim that that stated position need not be documented?
December 3rd, 2008 at 8:30 pm"— beacause you said it was so."
And? Again just because something is not documented in written form doesn't mean it isn't true. I have never run across any Christian that doesn't think that the Christmas tree is a symbol of Christ's birth. Does it mean other things? Absolutely. BTW how can a tangible object like a tree be a tradition as you claimed? A tradition is something we do or participate in. For example putting up the Christmas tree is a "tradition" but the tree itself is a symbol. Also since we are talking about symbols like the Christmas tree that started off as paegan ones, and according to you have no symbolic Christian significance to Christ's birth, would you also suggest that the Cross, a symbol of Christ himself, also really does not have any symbolic relevance considering it was used by the paegan Romans for criminal punishment well before Christ was nailed to it?
"Since when can you claim that a religious sect has a stated position and than claim that that stated position need not be documented?"
I never claimed that Christians have a "stated" position as to the symbolic signicance of the Christmas tree.
"On what grounds do you get to be the determiner of relevance?"
On what grounds do you get to be the determiner of what many Christians believe considering you are not a Christian?
December 4th, 2008 at 10:50 amTracy__5 Says:
"You are the one quoting irrelevant bible passages."
Up to this point I had not quoted a single bible verse, relevant or otherwise, here's one in particular that seems appropriate to how you receive information...
"Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces." (Matthew 7:6).
December 4th, 2008 at 12:35 pm"Up to this point I had not quoted a single bible verse"
So you made the following up?.....
"Blasphemy! The tree of Life was a religious symbol of life long before Jehovah was a glimmer in man’s imagination!
Repent ye viper!"
"...here’s one in particular that seems appropriate to how you receive information…"
"Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces. (Matthew 7:6)."
That's rather amusing considering you haven't shown much appreciation nor respect to first hand information about Christian beliefs I have presented.. BTW do you have some fabrications from the New Testament you would like to present?
December 5th, 2008 at 3:24 pm#153
BTW with your apparent knowledge of the Bible, but apparently are not a follower of Christ, we as Chistians tend to recognize what entities such as yourself are rather easily.
December 5th, 2008 at 3:30 pmWonderful...would you like to come back to my place?
December 5th, 2008 at 6:15 pm"Wonderful…would you like to come back to my place?"
To do what?
December 8th, 2008 at 4:38 pm