When Laura Bush asked members of Congress to pick local artists to decorate the White House Christmas tree, Rep. Jim McDermott (D-WA) turned to a local arts organization who assigned the task to Deborah Lawrence. The Seattle-based artist said, “I was at first nauseated, then realized it was an opportunity to highlight Jim McDermott because he’s a hero of mine.” So Lawrence, who frequently combines politics and satire in her work, covered a nine-inch ball “with swirly red and white stripes — and, in tiny glued-on text, salutes the Democratic congressman’s support for a resolution to impeach President Bush.” (HT: HuffPost)
Why not just hang Bush on the tree? He’s been an ornament of the right-wing all along, albeit an ugly one.
PEACE
December 2nd, 2008 at 11:40 amNow this is a War on Christmas I can believe in.
December 2nd, 2008 at 11:43 amIMPEACHMENT? WE’RE WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY PAST THE IMPEACHMENT STAGE
December 2nd, 2008 at 11:47 amPRICELESS!
December 2nd, 2008 at 11:48 ama perfect metaphor for “democracy” in america today… amidst an orgy of consumerism in the dark, dank chamber of the financial dungeon of doom… stands the mighty der weihnachtsbaum, o tannenbaum; decorated with “a nine-inch ball ‘with swirly red and white stripes — and, in tiny glued-on text, salutes the Democratic congressman’s support for a resolution to impeach President Bush.’”
drink in the image with a little eggnog, climb under the covers, and wait for the gifts that obamasanta brings.
December 2nd, 2008 at 11:50 amThe American public would like to see Cheney’s balls hanging on that tree, as well.
…and Alberto’s
…and Rumsfeld’s
…and Wolfowitz’s
…and Feith’s
…and Rice’s (ooops!)
December 2nd, 2008 at 11:54 amLaura could also hang from the tree that peace (of sh¡t) medal that the over inflated preacher gave Bush.
¶ AIO
December 2nd, 2008 at 11:57 amBush, Cheney, Rove, Mukasey. They all find it amusing and quaint that many people in this Country find their reprehensible, criminal behavior deserving of impeachments and jail time. Cheney relishes in beind perceived as some kind of Lord of Darkness, Mukasey boldly keeps a portrait of Orwell on his office wall. Rove has chuckled that he fully expects to be indicted by the end of the year. They find humour in what they have done to our Country, our reputation, our Constitution and all the laws eagerly broken in the name of PNAC and the Republican Party. Their cavalier demeanor can be read either as confidence that they will never face justice or they are projecting this attitude to help convince the general public that they have done nothing wrong and it’s just those damned liberal loonies looking for a witch hunt. Prosecuting these criminals and their willing abettors with extreme predjudice is THE ONLY way to ensure that future Presidents work within the rule of law and DO NOT overstep their Constitutionally edowed powers. This is most definitely NOT an instance where ignoring the consequences of breaking the law can be seen as a way to heal this Nation by turning the page and moving forward. If Obama loves the Constitution half as much as he has led us to believe, he finds it as sickening as many here do that our leaders have been shitting on it for the last eight years.
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:02 pmAll I want for Christmas is to see George weep…
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:03 pmJim’s my rep…you go guy.
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:06 pmIf it’s not throwing pies or bags of urine, it’s sneaking ornaments onto Christmas trees. The liberal repository of juvenile antics is endless.
Hope and Change, indeed.
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:06 pmI have reported Spencers Mom and Uncle Ho to the Secret service. I hate Bush too but calling for his death is beyond.
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:12 pmPotfry Says:
If it’s not throwing pies or bags of urine, it’s sneaking ornaments onto Christmas trees. The liberal repository of juvenile antics is endless.
No one is sneaking an ornament onto the tree, idiot.
The idiocy of Republinut trolls knows no boundaries…
Concerned Community Organizer Says:
Go Cheney yourself, neocon scumbag.
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:19 pmWhat would you expect from a WH occupied by a doofus who doesn’t bother with details, but instead just follows his “gut”.
DO THEY EVEN BOTHER TO CHECK THE DONATED ORNAMENTS FOR DANGEROUS MATERIAL?????
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:22 pmConcerned Community Organizer Says:
I have reported Spencers Mom and Uncle Ho to the Secret service.
What spencers mom said is just humor.
What Uncle Ho said is deep in the memory hole now, Nark.
¶ AIO
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:24 pmCmon, Wayne. You can do better than that. Republinut? I mean, is that your best?
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:26 pmConcerned Community Organizer Says:
Stick to just bringing the green bean casserole.
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:26 pmRepublinut?
‘Tis the season…
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:32 pmIt may be too late to impeach, but never too late to EXECUTE the idiot!
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:46 pmSmallPotfry,
Yeah, those liburals are sure darn sneaky, aren’t they.
Like the time in 2000 when they “popped” out all the W’s from the White House keyboards, and downloaded all sorts of porn, and then trashed the place.
Wait.
That never happened, did it?
Never mind.
Oh, and Concerned Community Organizer (aka, the poster who’s afraid of the scary black man),
GROW A PAIR!!!
Happy Holidays!
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:47 pmPotfry Says:
I mean, is that your best?
Lame, you are just too lame.
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:51 pmWhy don’t you try to hurt us some more by calling us “liberals” again…
Potfry Says:
The liberal repository of juvenile antics is endless.
I know, I know, caring about the Constitution is one of those riotously funny issues, a truly rich source of jokes.
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:53 pmNevar Says:
Concerned Community Organizer Says:
Stick to just bringing the green bean casserole.
Hilarious
December 2nd, 2008 at 12:56 pm**High five to Raven
All I can say is that I’d strongly recommend Deborah Lawrence make several copies. I get the feeling her ornament will somehow, unfortunately, uncannily keep getting broken by WH staff…..
December 2nd, 2008 at 1:07 pmYes, let’s hang Bush himself on the tree — like an ornament, he has uselessly “decorated” the white house.
December 2nd, 2008 at 1:26 pmThe list of indictments is rather long, hence the small type.
December 2nd, 2008 at 1:35 pmIt wouldn’t do to have a 9 foot diameter ornament, now would it?
IMPEACH BUSH!
Like that?
December 2nd, 2008 at 1:42 pmI like it, you’re starting to come around Tracy 5, maybe by the time you’re 9 or 10 you’ll get it…
You’re the only one so far who seems to think it’s funny…
December 2nd, 2008 at 1:52 pmNavar, would that be Tracy is 9 or 10 brick’s short.?..LOL.Great post’s as alway’s..Blessings
December 2nd, 2008 at 1:54 pmYou mean like celebrating the birth of some kid born in a stable because his dad had to go register for taxation?
December 2nd, 2008 at 1:56 pmTracy__5 Says:
If she had any courage along with McDermott she would have make it obvious instead of the cowardly small text.
Maybe she should have used shorter words too, so you could understand what they meant. But she did not think of your reading comprehension issues when she made the ornament. For shame.
December 2nd, 2008 at 1:59 pmGood Morning Wayne, good to read you here…Blessings
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:01 pmTracy__5 Says:
BTW why couldn’t McDermott get an artist who knows what Christmas is actually about?
December 2nd, 2008 at 1:53 pm
_______
Somehow I doubt the White House would want a pagan solstice ornament on their tree…
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:02 pmMaybe she forgot that George only likes stuff with big printing and lots of pictures of goats and stuff.
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:02 pmOh, then you mean maxing out the credit cards buying gifts for people because you have to, and getting all stupid and drunk at the Christmas party?
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:04 pmSomehow I doubt the White House would want a pagan solstice ornament on their tree…
Like little people with wings, pointy ears and leering grins?
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:08 pm;)
Jebus. Looks like the Repuke trolls are getting their second wind.
And yes, Tracy_5, I include you in the term “Repuke trolls”…
Happy Holidays, sweetie.
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:21 pmAll the Tracy trolls have anymore is picayune quibbles. No substance, no solutions, no contributions. Some things won’t change.
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:26 pmTell us what Christmas is all about Tracy 5!
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:27 pmBy golly, you’ve gotten me all fired up with Christmas joy, Tracy 5, I’m heading for Wal-Mart right now!
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:36 pmShould I wear my spiked heels?
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:42 pmHow about a couple of ornaments filled with gasoline? When Boy George flips the switch to light the tree, it would shower the petulant punk and bring the gift that so many Americans want for Christmas.
Oh shit. Now Concerned Crybaby is going to report me to the principal.
December 2nd, 2008 at 2:46 pmGuys, Guys, hanging an ornament that is Anti-Bush in the Whitehouse is just as appropriate as sending Hannukah cards of carting in the yule log to the WH.
December 2nd, 2008 at 3:13 pmWal-Mart doesn’t allow any outside entities in or around it’s storefronts.
December 2nd, 2008 at 4:08 pmShows how much you know about Christmas…
Why are Christians so easily upset by those who don’t believe in their Christ Fairy? Why are they so insecure?
If you really believed the you can fly to heaven by saddling up the Jesus Stallion, you wouldn’t jump to the defense so quickly. Who are you trying to convince? The non-believers or yourselves?
Thou dost protesteth waaay too much
December 2nd, 2008 at 4:13 pmDid you remember to ask for your employee discount?
December 2nd, 2008 at 4:20 pm“Why are Christians so easily upset by those who don’t believe in their Christ Fairy? Why are they so insecure?”
Because way deep down they have serious doubts, and suspect they have bought into a fairy tale.
(I’m not referring to Christians that understand and espouse the enlightened teachings of Jesus the Nazarene, and who also accept that the human race has had numerous enlightened teachers.)
December 2nd, 2008 at 4:25 pmPotfry Says:
While the conservative repository of outright venality, stupidity, and depravity knows no bounds. Keep up the good work morons. I am happy to see you brainwashed zombies go the way of the Whig party
December 2nd, 2008 at 4:35 pmI’m just messin’ wit yas, Tracy… you’re not the swiftest troll under the bridge are you?
December 2nd, 2008 at 4:36 pm“You weren’t under the dilusion this entire time that Wal-Mart is a government owned and run company were you?”
Certainly not. You’ve got the situation inverted.
December 2nd, 2008 at 4:38 pmAre you a Real Christian, tracy 5?
December 2nd, 2008 at 4:43 pmTrying to get you to make a direct statement of position.
December 2nd, 2008 at 4:47 pmI respect that.
Real Christians have no doubts…
That probably says a lot more than you would care to admit Tracy, and is precisely my problem with (some) religious people. That absolute certainty, the blind eye to facts and logic leaks over into their non-religious view of the world. Black or white boy, what’s it going to be?
It would be easier to put your faith in a symbol and stop trying to figure out how and why the world works but I find that simple appproach intellectually and spiritually cheap.
And I am not a bigot. I poke fun at ALL religions, including the FSM.
December 2nd, 2008 at 5:00 pmHi Tracy_5
December 2nd, 2008 at 5:04 pmHow have you been? As the “knower” of all things Christmas might you explain to me the obsession with poisonous plants this time of year? Thanks
Any religion that cannot withstand commentary on it’s idiosynchrosies and dogma will only survive through fear, intimidation, and control of its subjects.
December 2nd, 2008 at 5:06 pmI’ll leave you to slog on with this particular denseness, dbadass, I’m going to go put up the Christmas lights this afternoon.
December 2nd, 2008 at 5:08 pmI still have butterflies and grasshoppers out and about!
I already know you have cooler orthopterians than I and I am also sure your lepidopterans way kick the ass of mine. Enjoy Nevar!
December 2nd, 2008 at 5:27 pmorthopterans…
December 2nd, 2008 at 5:28 pmShe should mass-produce them. I’d bet that she’d make out just fine.
December 2nd, 2008 at 5:48 pmI am not an offending bigot, I just play one on the net.
Seriously Tracy, I respect everyone’s faith and the right to believe however they wish. Don’t mistake a little fun poking as a serious challenge.
The non-believers are subjects of scorn and hatred, we are the minority most universally disliked. The extremists of different religions throw rocks at each other but nothing unites a Christian and a Muslim like having an atheist in the room.
Here’s wishing you and your family a happy and peaceful Whatever the Hell You Want to Call It.
December 2nd, 2008 at 6:13 pmSorry Tracy_5:
It must have been this that made me mistakenly think you thought you knew.
Tracy__5 Says:
——————————————————————————–
BTW why couldn’t McDermott get an artist who knows what Christmas is actually about?
December 2nd, 2008 at 1:53 pm Recommend (0) | Report Abuse
December 2nd, 2008 at 6:30 pm—
So the mistletoe and santa are myths but the barnyard oddity is fact? Is that the gig?
Well said Tracy. You were certainly reasoned in this thread
December 2nd, 2008 at 6:56 pmSo Tracy_5:
December 2nd, 2008 at 6:57 pmWould those same true Christian congregations tell bit and Daryll and their ilk to chill with the whole gay thing?
“although the poor taste and disrespectfulness of Deborah Lawrence’s Christmas ornament design has nothing to do with warranted so-called “commentary”.”
—–
December 2nd, 2008 at 7:01 pmI was also wondering if Tracy_5 might condemn the VA GOP chair’s characterization of the next POTUS as Bin Laden as being in poor taste?
“Any religion that cannot withstand commentary on it’s idiosynchrosies and dogma will only survive through fear, intimidation, and control of its subjects”
Tracy5:L “Amen! That is the problem with all religious extremists…Christian, Islamic, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, ect….although the poor taste and disrespectfulness of Deborah Lawrence’s Christmas ornament design has nothing to do with warranted so-called “commentary”.”
You’ll have to leave the Buddhists out of the extremist category. Buddhism is not in actuality a religion.
You’re just rattling off names of religious and/or spiritual practices, you know little of what you speak.
I’ll agree that a Christmas tree ornament is hardly the place to make a civil statement regarding law, order, and justice.
Could you please explain the sanctity of a tree ornament with regards to your seasonal religious beliefs?
December 2nd, 2008 at 7:19 pmSeems to me that the mistletoe and santa are in fact a part of this deal. That’s why they are here this time of year each year? Hello, if they weren’t a part of it, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. I suppose next you’ll anounce that the tree that most folks buy has nothing to do with it either. Anyway I would be more interested in your thoughts as to #’s 89 and 90. Thanks
December 2nd, 2008 at 7:21 pmTracy_5 @ 94.
December 2nd, 2008 at 7:28 pmI respect that. Still I can’t help but notice that you never speak up as to that yet I have seen you on numerous ocassions judge others when it comes to economic issues. If my memory serves you have judged immigrants, welfare receipients, low skilled laborers and so on. I am not trying to be a jerk but just looking for consistency.
Absolutely. Who was it BTW?
—
December 2nd, 2008 at 7:29 pmjust scroll up a few and you may share your condemnation with all of these series of tubes users.
Since when is the tree a Christian symbol? Since they needed to find a way to explain away it’s nonchristian ancestry? Got kids? Do you tell them an little illegitimate kid drops by to give em shit made in China? Still I am more interested in why I have never seen you speak up to the christian driven haters and why you have judged others when it has to do with your tax dollars. I suppose the big old pagan bunny is some sort of christian symbol as well and what about them eggs. They sure as hell can’t represent the gametes of christ.
December 2nd, 2008 at 7:59 pmWell if the first rebuttal is honest, the second question need not be asked… Mostly when it comes to wallet issues, the impression you have given in the past is not overly christian in my understanding of christianity. So why is it that you are not troubled by the likes of bit and Daryll as to their unchristian stances. I would really appreciate seeing honest christians like yourselves stand up and remind them of the judge not issue. I think you would earn mucho respect from many. Last I checked you had not condemned the VA GOP chair at this forum.
December 2nd, 2008 at 8:08 pmthey are neither ill informed nor at your expense.
“I was adopted by most Chistians. The fact that it was considered a pagan symbol by most colonists doesn’t make it less of one today.”
Huh?
December 2nd, 2008 at 8:17 pmWhere have you been? Most folks I have seen carry no rhf water.
It takes two seconds to go upstairs a few and take a stand on the VA GOP chair. If you are sincere about what you claim you are, evidence is more convincing than words. Call the right on the carpet if you believe this action to be wrong.
December 2nd, 2008 at 8:27 pmI never said you did. I asked if you did.
December 2nd, 2008 at 8:32 pmDoes the fact that most historians/theologians trace it to paganism make it any less pagan? I could be wrong but I have absolutely never heard it claimed to be a symbol of christs birth. Why would a conifer which I don’t really think is a super common taxonomic botanical group in the lands of the bible be a symbol of this birth. Might you please educate me with some links or historical evidences of this linkage. Thanks. I suppose the fruitcake is symbolic of some sort of family lineage. (JK)
Nevar: “Could you please explain the sanctity of a tree ornament with regards to your seasonal religious beliefs?”
Tracy 5: “As far as I know, there is no sanctity in the actual ornaments unless they have Christ’s cross on them, but the Chistmas Tree is a Christian religious symbol that has been adopted to symbolize Christ’s birth so it doesn’t seem appropriate to me to have an ornament on a Christmas tree that has political connotations.
If your religion can co-opt a “pagan” holiday symbol for it’s own use, then I see no reason why others can’t co-opt it for a similar purpose, that being to shed light on evil and corruption. Light it up!
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:00 amTry using the italics button to help differentiate between other posters comments, and your own responses, Tracy5.
I can’t tell whether it’s god or the burning bush….
December 3rd, 2008 at 2:52 pmDid they decide on any Christmas ornaments at the First Council of Nicea? Or were they too busy trying to decide whether Jesus was actually a God or not?
December 3rd, 2008 at 3:13 pmTracy__5 Says: “…The wretch etc…”
That’s rather disrespectful…
Your hatred is showing, Tracy 5….
Actually, I would say the artist had more courage than common sense. If she had not of mentioned what the ornament said, I doubt anyone would have ever read it. Can you imagine witless Laura Bush doing anything more than just telling the help to get the decorating over with and leave her alone?
December 3rd, 2008 at 3:22 pmThen it could of hung there all this joyous season, beaming with the promise of justice in the coming year.
Hi Tracy_5.
December 3rd, 2008 at 5:13 pmI have a neighbor who is a man of the cloth. I just asked him about this tree thing. In a nut shell he said what the hell are you talking about. The tree symbolizes nothing he claims. He is unsure where you got this idea. He sees no metaphorical connection and oddly enough he suggested that it was a ancient pagan thing that sort of just got blended in sort of like Santa and that he and his congregation have no issue with the tree or Santa or any of that shit as it is just a byproduct of all kinds of stuff. He acknowledged that some sects are neurotic about trying to find a way to justify it and such but he could point to any aspect of his training that claimed or explained any symbology. Might you be able to provide some links to support that claim of symbolism to a birth by a mature coniferous tree which we in fact kill by cutting down. I really don’t see the connection
Tracy_5;
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:06 pmYou might want to google that one a bit before going any further
Actually forget googling the first council stuff. It is clear you aren’t real sure about that one. Can you please just tell me where you got that tree symbolism stuff as my neighbor was sort of amused by the whole thing and I’d like to be willing to offer him an explaination. Thanks
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:14 pmI was just going to suggest Tracy5 at least read Wikipedia regarding the Council of Nicea. It might help in understanding what it means to be a Real Christian.
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:18 pmEvening Nevar, I am thinking Tracy_5 is scrambling for an obtuse way to cover the clear lack of understanding of your reference which Tracy_5 has already displayed.
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:23 pmbest-
Evening as well. If Tracy 5 spent as much time dissembling and dissecting and reinterpreting Bible verses as he/she does our posts, we would have little to banter about here! Such fun!
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:28 pmTracy 5 sure has a thing for the tree business…. obsess much?
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:29 pmBlasphemy! The tree of Life was a religious symbol of life long before Jehovah was a glimmer in man’s imagination!
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:32 pmRepent ye viper!
“You might want to google that one a bit before going any further”
What?…specifically.
The First Council of Nicea
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:34 pmgoogle the first council for god’s sake. Damn!
So the bottom line is that you still can’t show any evidence that the stupid f ucking tree is claimed by anyone but you to be a symbol of the birth of christ. Whose birth date by the way it took the christians a hell of a long tme to agree on. For such a god damned important event you would have thought they might have been able to figure out when it happened
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:36 pmSo riddle me this. If all these protestants are all into this tree that we cut down and kill is our symbol of birth shit, how come the best you can do is a barely and by your own admission inconclusive reference by a catholic? It is this sort of shit that forces me to continue to call bullshit
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:39 pmHow could it be irrelevant? It is the council which created it.
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:39 pmBesides, you are missing the point of the council in the first place. It was to unite to feuding 6 or 7 “Christian” factions, at the behest of the Roman Emperor, to codify the dogma into one easy to implement package. They had made up a lot of stuff about Jesus in the 300 or so years since his death, and it needed to get organized.
Heres the thing Tracy_5. Yes the protestants get some credit for the mainstream coopting of the well recognized pagan origins of the tree crap. The problem is your claim that it symbolizes something. When you show me some evidence that the dogma of that sect has a documented claim that the tree that I might remind you again is killed by those who follow the tradition is a direct symbol of the birth of christ. I will acknowledge your wisdom on the subject. Till then it is coopted friggin tree
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:47 pm“Relevance to the symbolism of the Christmas tree? As far as I know most fruit trees are not coniferous.”
Up until this little gem I halfway took you seriously.
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:54 pmSo long pal.
The Bible is the words of men. Written by men, for men.
There is some good stuff in there from enlightened individuals, and a lot of fabrications as well.
Merry Holidays!
“He is unsure where you got this idea.”
Ask him WHY it is called a Christmas tree.
——
December 3rd, 2008 at 7:58 pmAlright genius. Explain to me what the symbolism of the christmas cactus is. Does putting the word christmas in front of anything make it a symbol of christs birth. Atleast must people try to keep their cactus symbols of the barnyard birth alive for a little while. Do all these protestants get a little weirded out when they throw their birth symbol in the dump or on the burn pile around 1/2 each year. What about those protestants that put their birthy tree on the curb for the garbage man?
I don’t really care what YOU believe. I simply want you to show where protestantism says the tree is a simple of the birth. The fact that many christians sects coopted a prior tradition is well recognized. The discussion here is of symbolism and not tradition. This could all have been avoiuded by calling it is. A tradition and not a symbol.
December 3rd, 2008 at 8:01 pmTracy__5 Says:
——————————————————————————–
“Blasphemy! The tree of Life was a religious symbol of life long before Jehovah was a glimmer in man’s imagination!
Repent ye viper!”
Relevance to the symbolism of the Christmas tree? As far as I know most fruit trees are not coniferous.
—
December 3rd, 2008 at 8:05 pmThis is so freakin’ lame. The cone is a fruit my friend. See the wind carries the pollen which fertilizes these eggs which become become those cool little diploid snacks we call pinenuts. I see botany is not a strength either
“Yes the protestants get some credit for the mainstream coopting of the well recognized pagan origins of the tree crap.”
Why do you intentionally have to drop down to the level of those jerks who throw the insults at Christianity?
—
December 3rd, 2008 at 8:06 pmHow is this statement insulting?
Tracy_5.
December 3rd, 2008 at 8:27 pmOn what grounds do you get to be the determiner of relevance?
“I simply want you to show where protestantism says the tree is a simple of the birth.”
Why does it have to be documented?
— beacause you said it was so. Are you know acknoeldging that it is not. Damn this is idiotic. Since when can you claim that a religious sect has a stated position and than claim that that stated position need not be documented?
December 3rd, 2008 at 8:30 pmTracy__5 Says:
“You are the one quoting irrelevant bible passages.”
Up to this point I had not quoted a single bible verse, relevant or otherwise, here’s one in particular that seems appropriate to how you receive information…
“Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.” (Matthew 7:6).
December 4th, 2008 at 12:35 pmWonderful…would you like to come back to my place?
December 5th, 2008 at 6:15 pm