Kristol: ‘We’ve won the war’ in Iraq.
By on Dec 3rd, 2008 at 9:50 am
Kristol: ‘We’ve won the war’ in Iraq.
Last night in New York, ABC News correspondent John Donovan moderated a debate between the Weekly Standard’s Bill Kristol, former Bush aide Karl Rove, Slate editor Jacob Weisberg and Guardian columnist Sir Simon Jenkins. The most contentious part of the debate came during discussion over the invasion of Iraq, in which Kristol proclaimed outright that the United States has won:
But [Kristol] and Mr. Rove both maintained that while the initial occupation was mismanaged, the surge of troops begun in 2007 has placed the U.S. on the cusp of victory in Iraq.
“We’ve won the war,” Mr. Kristol said.
Kristol did not say if this meant that all U.S. troops could now come home.
UpdateThe Wonk Room's Matt Duss notes, "I suppose if one redefines 'won' as 'completely failed to produce any of the positive effects I previously insisted would be forthcoming, but avoided the very worst imaginable outcome,' then Kristol's is a plausible statement. Here in the world of words with agreed-upon meanings, however, there is simply no defensible calculus by which the Iraq war can be judged to have been a success for U.S. foreign policy.
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And a hearty "go fcuk yourself" to you too!
December 3rd, 2008 at 9:50 amJudging from the shit-eating grin on that pic, he must have had a double serving this morn.
December 3rd, 2008 at 9:53 amWhaddya mean "WE," white man?
December 3rd, 2008 at 9:55 amand lost the occupation and the respect of the rest of the world.
Ol Billy Boy has been wrong about everything for as long as I've known of him. Why does any thinking mind listen to this guy? What a dope!
“Among conservatives there's been too much pseudo-populism, almost too much concern and attention for, quote, 'the people'... After all, we conservatives are on the side of the lords and barons... We...are pulling up the drawbridge against the peasants.” - Billy Kristol
Can you say "Stupid Neo-Nitwit Elitist"?
Billy, get a job!
December 3rd, 2008 at 9:57 amFor a man who has not been correct on a single prognostication since the United States first illegally invaded and occupied Iraqnam, Kristol certainly speaks with a lot of confidence here. It must be the result of his illustrious career in the military. His service in Vietnam and the time he spent working in the Pentagon followed by his many trips to Iraqnam to see first hand what is happening on the ground there. How else could a feeble minded prick like him make such a preposterous statement?
December 3rd, 2008 at 9:58 amwhere would anyone get the idea that his aim is to be "correct"? bill's in the perception management business. he's ministry of truth... you know, like orwell and all that? hello?
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:04 amWell, I'm sure it will be heartening to the families of Master Sgt. Anthony Davis and Capt. Warren A. Frank and 1st Lt. William K. Jernigan and Sgt 1st Class Miguel A. Wilson and Pvt. Charles Yi Barnett and Gunnery Sgt. Marcelo R. Velasco and Cpl. Aaron M. Allen and Chief Warrant Officer Donald V. Clark and Chief Warrant Officer Christian P. Humphreys and Sgt. James M. Clay to know that their sons died for a war we already won.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:06 amMission accomplished, Mr. Crystal? A country with it's infrastructure in tatters, millions of refugees, hundreds of thousands dead, another hundreds of thousands maimed and scarred for life? A country with it's resources up for grabs by multi-national corporations? Perhaps you personally could now strut the streets of Baghdad as it's liberator. Write us back if you find work.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:07 amWhat else would you expect from the guy who was Dan Quayle's Chief of Staff? Whatta freakin' bozo!
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:07 amWell, I’m sure it will be heartening to the families of Master Sgt. Anthony Davis and Capt. Warren A. Frank and 1st Lt. William K. Jernigan and Sgt 1st Class Miguel A. Wilson and Pvt. Charles Yi Barnett and Gunnery Sgt. Marcelo R. Velasco and Cpl. Aaron M. Allen and Chief Warrant Officer Donald V. Clark and Chief Warrant Officer Christian P. Humphreys and Sgt. James M. Clay to know that their sons died for a war we already won.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:07 amHow do you "win" a war when the mission was a failure? The mission was to disarm Saddam's WMD. No WMD were found. Mission Failed.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:08 amJohn Gibson has been spewing/ranting this same non-sense nightly on Faux radio. In fact, he even told his myopic listeners that WMD were found. When a called questioned him on when they were found, he imploded and had a hissy fit. Typical.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:10 amKristol: ‘We won the war’ in Iraq.»
And the Iraqi people lost.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:11 amDr. Hussein Matt Says:
John Gibson has been spewing/ranting this same non-sense nightly on Faux radio. In fact, he even told his myopic listeners that WMD were found.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:10 am
________
So now they were found? I thought they were all moved to Syria!
These right-wingers need to coordinate better, so they can get their lies straight.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:11 amWe won? Who surrendered?
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:12 amWait a minute!
Are you expecting us to believe that "the bloody" Kristol gave a speech and didn't advocate attacking Iran in it?
Either the media is lying or Bill is swilling the holiday cheer a bit early.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:13 amIf this is winning, I wonder what losing looks like?
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:14 amOh boy! We won! Where is our prize?
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:16 ammisshusseinmolly Says:
We won? Who surrendered?
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:12 am
_______
Iran, obviously. I mean, they had to suffer for years with $120/barrel oil, the removal of their arch-enemy, and the installation of an Iraqi government next door led by Shi'ite parties born and/or raised in Iran. They must be crying their little Persian eyes to sleep every night.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:16 amHow do you “win” a war when the mission was a failure? The mission was to disarm Saddam’s WMD. No WMD were found. Mission Failed.
That should be tatooed on the a$$ of KKKarl, so every time Shrub and Dick go to kiss his a$$, they'll be reminded what complete losers they really are.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:17 amWhat did we win exactly?
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:17 amBy the end of this war, given Obama pulls the troops like he said he will, the war will cost upwards to a trillion dollars. I don't know about you, but I have trouble grasping the concept of a trillion dollars. There have been many models of what could have been bought with the cost of the war at 10-12 billion dollars a month but the one thing that really sticks with me not counting the crashed economy is that republicans voted astoundingly to not allocate some of these billions towards health care for children. It would have amounted to four months of the war spending. So if Kristol wants to score the war soldier for soldier like a football game than we blew them out, but it's hard to call yourself a winner when we've lost so much.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:17 amThud....Jeebos, another thread about this wind bag....I for one am sick to death of this ass.....Blessings to everyone else..
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:17 amthe Lone Voice of Reason Says:
By the end of this war, given Obama pulls the troops like he said he will, the war will cost upwards to a trillion dollars. I don’t know about you, but I have trouble grasping the concept of a trillion dollars.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:17 am
_______
Try grasping four trillion, cause that's the real cost when you include things like the spike in oil prices and health care costs for wounded veterans and lost productivity of wounded veterans returning to civilian jobs and economic instability linked to the war.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:20 amSelf-delusion, the motto of the far-right.
(Wish they'd change it to 'we need to be in therapy')
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:22 amKristol & Rove should be sharing a cell, where they can 'debate' the pros & cons of being complete assholes.
Or, now that they claim we 'won', walking the streets of Baghdad, pointing out interesting kill sites to tourists who want to see the new Democracy in action.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:22 amThe only thing I want to hear about Rove and Kristol is that their bodies have been found, wrapped in passionate embrace, with plastic bags over their heads in a cheap DC flop-house, surrounded by the detritus of their last drug-infused orgy.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:23 amAnother day, another comment awaiting moderation.
By the way, tokin librul, nice call yesterday on the outcome of the Chambliss runoff.
Not that I support Sexy Saxby, but good call, just the same.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:25 amH-Toast I heard the number one trill thrown around as economic costs for the war IN Iraq, but you're right, thinking like an accountant we also can include opportunity costs of the war.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:26 amWhat did that victory look like?
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:28 amI must be missing something.
Jeez! Winning wars sure ain't like it used to be!
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:28 amGuys like Kristol make me sick. They whistle through the graveyard. I wish Dexter knew them, they'd all have shrink wrap in their future.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:28 am'Lil Billy Kristol:
-Chief of Staff for the dumbest VP ever
-Chief cheerleader for dumbest President ever
-Supporter of the most Evil VP ever
Say, Billy, that's quite a resume...now STFU!
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:31 amWhat "war" is Billy-boy talking about? Since only Congress can declare war, and they never did (the AUMF was a joint resolution, not a declaration of war), we haven't won any war recently...
Gee, ya'd think an esteemed journalist like William Jefferson Beauregard Tiberius Hassenpfeffer Kristol would know the difference between a war and an illegal invasion/occupation...
/snark
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:37 amAh, Billy Boy.
Is this the same Bill Kristol that managed to avoid service in Vietnam by attending The Collegiate School until 1970, then attending Harvard until 1973 and until the War ended?
The same Bill Kristol that was known by the New Republic as "Dan Quayle's brain" upon being appointed the Vice President's chief of staff?
The same Bill Kristol who in 2002, declared that a war in Iraq "could have terrifically good effects throughout the Middle East," and that Saddam Hussein was "past the finish line" in developing nuclear weapons, and in February 2003, said: "Look, if we free the people of Iraq we will be respected in the Arab world" and then 18 days before the invasion of Iraq promptly dismissed the possibility of sectarian conflict afterward?
Is this the same Bill Kristol who said, "Very few wars in American history were prepared better or more thoroughly than this one by this president?"
Yep. Same dipshit all right.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:39 amWhatever you say, numbnuts. You have been wrong for so long, why don't you get right tonight? Just go away into your fairytale land.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:45 amSo Kristol still hasn't learned that a total change in govt and culture takes a century or more. Instead, the TeeVee change in 30 minutes is the norm ?
If nothing else, read US History - Declaration of Independence in 1776 and the government wasn't hammered out well into the 19th century.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:48 amFrom John Stewart the other night (about Afghanistan but still relevant):
When is the last time someone had successfully conquered and occupied a country in the region......Alexander the Great.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:48 amMapleStreet Says:
From John Stewart the other night (about Afghanistan but still relevant):
When is the last time someone had successfully conquered and occupied a country in the region……Alexander the Great.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:48 am
________
That was Colbert, and it's only sort of relevant. Sure, there are some similarities - Iraq and Afghanistan were both British colonial inventions that crammed two different ethnic groups together inside a common border, guaranteeing continued and very exploitable instability for the forseeable future. But other than that, they're pretty different places...
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:55 amWhat?
We won?
Whoo hoo! Victory!
Why, we should be celebrating in the streets, like when our favorite team wins a championship, shouldn't we?
Ticker tap parades. Millions lining the streets. A national holiday. Photographs of military men and women eagerly rushing to hug their family.
When did I miss it? I mean, it's been over a year. Surely the entire country would have been "Dancing in the Streets".
Billy Kristol. Mucking foron!
Props to toasterhead for his profound, blunt post.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:55 amWar should always be portrayed with the human element.
Something the right seems to erase (i.e. Not photographs of caskets).
I pray not one family has to deal with a loved one loss from this "Victory"!
EVER!
Uh...We won the blitzkrieg of a sovereign nation that had no WMD
or connection to the terrorists. That took about what? 3 weeks? "Shock and Awe" and all that crap.
We FUBAR'd the occupation, ruined our economy, and we continue to do so. So you wanna have a big parade for that?
Dipshit.....
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:56 amIf the stated objective was to free the supposedly oppressed Iraqi citizens, how could you then claim victory over the same people you intended to liberate? The invasion planners, through the media, had us believing this would resemble only a task force "Maybe six weeks, I doubt six months" kind of commitment. I didn't hear anything about nation building and our troops left to patrol IED-laden streets for years at a time.
December 3rd, 2008 at 10:59 amWe won the "war," illegal and immoral as it was, by the first week of April 2003. It's the occupation, also illegal and immoral, that has been screwed up beyond all comprehension. Every time I hear somebody spew the nonsense that we have to do this or that because "we are still a nation at war," I want to throw up. We could have left any time we wanted to for the past five years.
December 3rd, 2008 at 11:00 amThis is their fallback position: We won the war. Just make s**t up. Like the Vietnam groupies who persist to this day claiming we won that war, too, then blaming the Democrats for handing their imaginary victory back to the enemy.
December 3rd, 2008 at 11:04 amOn "Fox news Sunday" last weekend, guest Lindsey Gramm called Iraq had been "won" and Host Hume called Iraq "stable" (or vice versa). Kristol also described the war in Iraq as being "over".
December 3rd, 2008 at 11:10 amI wish the Mr. Kriston would recieve the Christmas gifts he so richly deserves. Firstly, a frontal lobotomy. Secondly, 10 rolls of rubber wallpaper.
December 3rd, 2008 at 11:10 amImpeach, There's Still Time!
Wow, I must have missed all those insurgents and al queda-in-Iraq militants laying down their weapons, turning themselves in and al Sadr signing peace treaties on the news last night! You've gotta love GOP logic. First it was "the surge was a big success" bull shit. Now "we won" is the new meme from these dillusional chicken hawks. Now we can finally move forward with breaking ground on that Iraqi theme park.
December 3rd, 2008 at 11:11 amOk, let them believe it if that is what makes them feel better. I can deal with some neocon crowing over their "victory" in Iraq if it means that we can now bring all of our troops home.
Sheesh.... it is sorta like failing a mid-term but strutting around like you're the valedictorian. What. Ever.
December 3rd, 2008 at 11:14 amObama has really drove these loyal Republicans crazy. There was never a War in Iraq we invaded Iraq and killed innocent men/woman/children who were sleeping in their homes peacefully. We invaded Iraq for their oil and wanted control of the land for friends to bomb Iran.
December 3rd, 2008 at 11:27 amHow do YOU spell "delusional"...?
W-I-L-L-I-A-M-K-R-I-S-T-O-L
December 3rd, 2008 at 11:34 amThe US is NOT going to "pull out" of the Middle East.
NO WAY.
Mr. O's already said any pull-out from Iraq is gonna be mainly to refocus the military on Afghanistan.
Afghanistan has broken the back of EVERY INVADING EMPIRE for 3000 years. That's a home record better than OU under Stoops...
December 3rd, 2008 at 11:35 amKristol is a very, very stupid, stupid man. Just like other right-wingers.
December 3rd, 2008 at 11:35 amIf we "won the war," why are not ALL our troops home? There would be no point in them still being over there. Send William the Bloody over there in there place.
How do YOU spell “delusional”…?
W-I-L-L-I-A-M-K-R-I-S-T-O-L
Well, that or C H A N G E...
December 3rd, 2008 at 11:36 amS H I L L A R Y S U P P O R T E R S
December 3rd, 2008 at 11:44 amDayum!! You sure can spell "delusional" a whole buncha ways!!
;o)
December 3rd, 2008 at 12:00 pmtokin librul Says:
Mr. O’s already said any pull-out from Iraq is gonna be mainly to refocus the military on Afghanistan.
Afghanistan has broken the back of EVERY INVADING EMPIRE for 3000 years. That’s a home record better than OU under Stoops…
December 3rd, 2008 at 11:35 am
________
We know that.
We knew that when we voted for the guy.
The fact is that Afghanistan has been out of focus for far too long, and bad things happen when Afghanistan is left out of focus.
Afghanistan is not going to be stabilized by dropping bombs on weddings from 15,000 feet. The current strategy is not working, and we're looking to Obama and his incoming team to refocus the Afghan war in a way that will undermine the growing influence of the Taliban. What's needed is not a "surge," nor a hands-off arming of warlords and tribal leaders like we did in Iraq.
Afghanistan civil society needs to be built town-by-town and province-by-province so that the Afghan people can finally control their own destinies. It's not a military solution - it's a diplomatic and development one, but the military will have to play a role in building relationships with and between local government leaders. It's not a simple solution. It's not a magic bullet. But it needs to be done, or Afghanistan will just slip back into the kind of conflict we left it with after the Soviet invasion.
December 3rd, 2008 at 12:22 pmWhat sacrifice, duty, selfless contribution did this lowlife do to earn the right to say, "we?"
December 3rd, 2008 at 12:32 pmNOTE TO Think Progress: Why do you even present debate points to clowns like Kristol? Seriously, by debating, you legitimize him. It's like you're debating Dustin Hoffman's character in Rain Man. At some point you yourself look like a fool. Marginalize him by not even considering him a serious debator.
December 3rd, 2008 at 12:51 pmwould love to meet this tool in the ring sometime. Should I invite him for a friendly match of pugilistic talents?
December 3rd, 2008 at 12:58 pmTake him out deer hunting.
December 3rd, 2008 at 1:01 pm;)
I don't believe those lame belated declarations of victory. The have-mores along with all supporters of the idiot claim victory but look at the current state of this nation. There is nothing victorious about the illegal invasion of Iraq. No forgiving signs for the splurging and squandering of trillions of taxpayer money on a failed neverending war. A collapsing overlooked infrastructure along with a collapsing economy and how the world sees the US as a nation speaks louder than words. Who the hell is Kristol to claim victory?
December 3rd, 2008 at 1:11 pmIf that pathetic fiction, plus your inveterate thumb sucking helps you sleep at night, Bill, knock yourself out.
December 3rd, 2008 at 1:26 pmWhy is this fascist relevent?
He has been wrong 100% of the time.
December 3rd, 2008 at 1:30 pmBut [Kristol] and Mr. Rove both maintained that while the initial occupation was mismanaged, the surge of troops begun in 2007 has placed the U.S. on the cusp of victory in Iraq.
Now if FDR had only been that quick and competent in WWII in figuring out what was done wrong and trying to fix it, we would have ... ohhh ... waiddaminnit....
And just a FYI, Iraq is still a hell-hole (and pretty much the only place in the world I won't go do an on-site job right now, no matter what the pay). And if the U.S. had truly intended to hand over Iraq to Iran's buddies, they might have saved themselves some trouble by supporting Iran rather than Iraq back in the '80s, when Rummy was shaking hands with Saddam.
Cheers,
December 3rd, 2008 at 1:40 pm‘We won the war’ in Iraq.
What a pathetic last ditch effort to bring some sort of positive legacy to the repugs.
But on the other hand, maybe the neocons did win...as their bank accounts have grown.
December 3rd, 2008 at 1:43 pmHe's a tool, and a willing (one might say, gleefully willing) tool of the propoganda machine that is behind the neocon movement. He is in PNAC. He may not be an intelligent part of the machinery, but he has been very useful. Multiple people spouting the same talking points ad nauseum is the baseline strategy of their propoganda, and it is an effective strategy for altering minds: particularly those already favorably disposed, and then those who are undecided but catch a few keywords that trigger empathy and then confuse the keyword empathy for empathy with the propoganda that is being thrown at them.
This is all a part of the strategy of salvaging the Bush legacy, for whatever purposes (probably to do with Jeb). We "won the war" while Bush is still in office. They hope that the 20% will buy it pretty much without question, and hope to drag along a percentage of others. This isn't kristol spouting this crap on his own: he doesn't do that. This is a talking pont and propoganda strategy. It also can be used against Obama: "Look, Bush won the war, as we told you. Then Obama got in office and he lost the war." Note that Bush's 'legacy' is incomplete if he had to leave office without winning his 'war'.
my $0.02
December 3rd, 2008 at 1:48 pmNevar says: Take him out deer hunting.
Yeah, with 5 deferment Dead-eye Dickhead Cheney. (:-D)
December 3rd, 2008 at 2:06 pmIf memory serves, in the Soviet Union, not only the offender was sent to the gulags, but also most, if not all his/her kinfolk. After all, they might be contaminated with treasonous thoughts as well.
Just thinking about what to do with these monsters.
December 3rd, 2008 at 4:54 pmKristol added that he was proud to be the poster boy for ugly Zionists.
December 3rd, 2008 at 5:12 pmIraq's story is not finalized as yet.
As far as winning?
Kristol needs to explain what was won?
And at what cost?
December 5th, 2008 at 2:16 am