Biden to break with Cheney vice presidency, plans to limit role in Congress.
Biden to break with Cheney vice presidency, plans to limit role in Congress.
In his effort to expand the powers of vice presidency to dangerous levels, Dick Cheney has met regularly with congressional Republicans. The Las Vegas Sun is reporting that the new Congress “will reassert its constitutional independence from the White House by barring the vice president from joining in internal Senate deliberations.” Mike Allen reports that Vice President-elect Biden has readily agreed to limit his intervention in Congress:
The paper says that when [Senate Majority Leader] Reid was asked whether Biden will be allowed to attend Senate Democratic caucus meetings, Reid said: “Absolutely not.”
Elizabeth Alexander, spokesperson for the Vice President-elect, e-mailed in response: “Vice President-elect Biden had no intention of continuing the practice started by Vice President Cheneyof regularly attending internal legislative branch meetings — he firmly believes in restoring the Office of the Vice President to its historical role. He and Senator Reid see eye to eye on this.”
At the October vice presidential debate in St. Louis, Biden said, “Vice President Cheney has been the most dangerous vice president we’ve had probably in American history.”
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Does this mean that the Constitution might be followed and not subverted for a change for the next 8 years?
December 6th, 2008 at 5:09 pmWell, nixon was once a vice-president. He was pretty dangrous, ask jfk.
And bush 1 was pretty dangerous, family friend tried to knock off st ronnie ray-gun and very nearly succeeded (much closer than the public was told). Guess bush 1 was pretty dangerous…
December 6th, 2008 at 5:09 pmCurlew – not good enough. The dems capitulating to every demands has established a precedence that any other president can point to, proclaiming that all this kind of stuff is fully legal.
This is a start, but Obama and the dems need to do much more to seize the moment and make a strong statement that we are a constitutional democracy with three equal branches of government.
There is no UNITARY EXECUTIVE
December 6th, 2008 at 5:11 pmAnd the office of the VP is not a separate branch that has any authority over any of the other branches.
Important precedences here that need to be nullified – it is a shame that the dems let it get this far, especially when they ran and won on “accountability” in 2006.
And then they took impeachment “off the table”, agreed to eliminate habeus corpus, and us out on the 4th ammendment, and then granted telecoms immunity for the crimes they had committed and barred and civil litigation.
This means not only was immunity granted, but we will never know what actually happened.
December 6th, 2008 at 5:42 pmMore good evidence that democrats are not the same as republicans….
additionally, note the push for an early move on health care……..
December 6th, 2008 at 5:48 pmThis is the kind of tribute chimpy and the repugs/neocons deserver.
December 6th, 2008 at 5:54 pmAnother Joe,
Not ALL Dems are capitulating to Bush’s Executive Branch Power Grab.
Bill Moyers, this week , had a really good interview with Sen. Russ Feingold about this very subject.
Feingold has Real Respect for the Rule of Law and the Constitution, and he defended the checks and balances inherent in that document. Feingold Categorically denies that Article II give Bush or any President the Power to do whatever he wants on Nationalk Security Grounds.
And here’s the good news….Feingold thinks Obama Agrees with him about this matter.
Stay Tuned.
December 6th, 2008 at 6:09 pmBadger, I’m a huge fan of Russ Feingold. He’s very strong on civil liberties, and has been since the beginning. He was the only “No” vote on the Patriot Act. He was considering a presidential run this time around, but decided against it. I hope he will consider doing so in the future. He is a genuine Progressive.
December 6th, 2008 at 6:17 pmCheney’s attendance at internal congressional (Republican) meetings is where Palin got her idea of what the VP does vs a vs the Senate. “You can really get down there with them and put together good policy,” or something like that.
December 6th, 2008 at 6:20 pmJoe’s only here to point out the negatives. Notice how in a thread pointing pretty directly to at least one serious difference, somehow he has absolutly nothing good to say about democrats.
December 6th, 2008 at 6:20 pmimpeachcheneythenbush Says:
He (Feingold) was the only “No” vote on the Patriot Act.
I believe that he was the only senator to have actually READ IT.
December 6th, 2008 at 6:25 pmbadger – know russ too – he also criticizes dems for capitulating to the most unpopular president in modern US history.
Fred – if facts bother you, like how the majority of dems have coopted everything in dur chimpfurher’s regime, then please skim past my post.
I am not ready to jump on the DEMS GOOD GUYS/REPUGS BAD GUYS bandwagon until I see some of the damage of the past 8 years reversed and some legitimately progressive action that go beyond words.
Perhaps we have a start now, but the crowd that proclaims how great the dems are without demanding accountability and action represent how we got in this mess in the first place.
But feel free to disagree, just don’t constantly misrepresent what people say and if you don’t understand what someone is saying, just say so.
December 6th, 2008 at 6:27 pmFunny how Russ Fiendgold can be held up as the hero he is when he criticizes his party’s support for the neocons/repugs, but the rest of us are expected to SHUT UP AND VOTE DEMOCRAT.
We need more people that think and speak like Russ, but according to some nay-sayers here – we are suppose to just shut up and not agree with Russ on these issues.
Go figure…
December 6th, 2008 at 6:30 pmI thought you were delusional but now it’s obvious….
If you weren’t a coward you would back that up with some evidence. Asking you to clarify where you stand on something doesn’t fit the bill…..
And who would that be Joe? Do you just decide?
I’m done with you and your arrogant superiority.
December 6th, 2008 at 6:38 pmFred, I have the greatest admiration for you…most of the time. But let it go, man. An argument ranging over at least three threads is ridiculous. We liberals and progressives are supposed to be tolerant, I hear?
December 6th, 2008 at 6:43 pmimpeachcheneythenbush Says:
I hear ya friend. Point taken.
December 6th, 2008 at 6:48 pmDuring her debate with Senator Biden, Sarah Palin showed admiration of the role of Cheney as VP meddling in the business of the Senate.
She even dreamed about having more power for herself as VP when she wins.
But she is now a hopeful 2012 candidate of many others on the list.
December 6th, 2008 at 6:51 pmIntead of Joe The Plumber of 2008,Sarah Palin promised that she is bringing Bill The Mechanic of 2012,as her new recipe for winning the big prize.
Fred says:
Back in my days progressives were real progressive, but we called ourselves WHIGS and we didn’t allow any young whipper-snappers to disagree because we know when the gettin’ was good and how to catch a muskrat or a beaver and I am not talking about using a gun or even a steel trap – no, in our days we caught them with our hands and then we bit the head off, at least if we could remember why we picked the damn things up in the first place.
And furthermore, when I voted for roosevelt, it was a mistake because they didn’t used to teach us to read in those days and I thought I was pulling a tapper for a pabst blue ribbon.
Back in my days beer was so good it would make you pass out and forget just what a good time you had. Today’s beer makes you pass out and wet your pants but I keep tryin to find some good bear and I go through a lot of pants.
December 6th, 2008 at 6:53 pmi agree, fred…
anyone who states: “agreed to eliminate habeus corpus, and us out on the 4th ammendment, and then granted telecoms immunity”
positively doesn’t know what it’s talking about… doesn’t have all the facts…
it ain’t worth it…
btw – i left you a note on the LIE-BURY thread…
December 6th, 2008 at 6:54 pmhey katy – here’s a new thing on the tubes, called GOOGLE.
Look what you can find if you have an open mind and don’t mind a few facts:
The Democratic Capitulation on Telecom Immunity Even Russ Feingold use the term “capitulate”
George Bush’s latest powers, courtesy of the Democratic Congress Most would say GLENN GREENWALD has legitimate “left” credeintials.
Senate Passes FISA Bill With Telecom Immunity
Some Democratic Senators Still Not On Board To Restore Habeas Corpus
Senate Approves Detainee Bill Backed by Bush This happeed with dem support.
December 6th, 2008 at 7:05 pmHold BOTH dems and repugs accountable if you want to see positive change.
December 6th, 2008 at 7:07 pmWell, Another Joe this is going to be a long post but first I have a question,how long have you been posting here.? I ask because I haven’t been around TP as much as I use to and since I happened on this blog shortly after it’s inception I don’t remember you being around..I had a different name then..Any way..How long.? Did you use a diffrent name.?….First off let me throw out to you just for your info I was banned atleast twice by TP for my view’s…Bleeding heart liberal do’s not even come close to my view’s…I am as old as dirt, been in all the fight’s for right’s and cast my first vote for JFK….Have cried and grieved for all our losses and those inflicted by bush/cheney around the world…
You are mistaken in your assesment of many of us….You didn’t ask but I will tell you…Fred and I have gone round and round about Obama and many other thing’s but I respect him and his view’s, even when we don’t agree, same with Katy and many other’s..Troll’s I will bash, I try to be forgiving of my own as they have alway’s been to me…
After working so hard for every one’s right’s imagine how I felt when Obama voted for FISA and spoke in a speech about backing Israel 100% the day after they were ratteling their saber’s against Iran…I watched that vote on C-Span and he didn’t need to vote yes, it was already won…I went into orbit and posted a lot at that time..Still pissed….In the end I voted for him because I was afraid we would end up with Mcnut’s and pitaful palin…
Guess you haven’t seen my nasty post’s against palosi and mousy reid among a few…Am I worried, you bet…Do I trust any polatician, hell no..Let me close with this thought…..I don’t trust them and I along with million’s of other’s are watchful and ready to spring into action if this bunch stray’s..If Obama and his crew can’t praduce atleast some of what they promised they will not get a second term or my vote….Third party candidate’s wait in the wing’s as well as untainted Dem’s…I will not start bashing untill I see how this is going to shake out…I will not lay blame where it is not due, yet…BTW Feingold was one of my favorite’s as well but I still admire Kucinich the most, he’s my constitutional man….Blessings
December 6th, 2008 at 7:17 pmTACT
The art of making a Point without making an Enemy.
PATRONIZE
To Address people like they are Stupid.
Just sayin…
December 6th, 2008 at 7:18 pmThank you Badger, I will try to remember in the future…Blessings
December 6th, 2008 at 7:27 pmResponded to in kind……..thanks for your thoughts.
Witch1, Your post above is so typical of most of your posts. you earned my respect long ago. Thanks.
December 6th, 2008 at 7:28 pmMe too Badger, my wife says I lack “tact”
December 6th, 2008 at 7:29 pmi know what happened, joe…
December 6th, 2008 at 7:30 pmi also know WHY it happened…
there is no black and white, cut and dried…
just hope it all comes out in the wash…
and, if anyone can do it, obama can.
with all the help he can get.
Witch1 – I certainly agree with you on Kucinich as well. I voted for him in the primary in 2004, but by the time we voted in Florida this time around, he’d already withdrawn. Ever read his book, “Prayer for America?”
December 6th, 2008 at 7:32 pmi found it fred… thanks
and thanks to badger too – good one.
sharon – always “interesting”! :-)
December 6th, 2008 at 7:33 pmWitch 1 aka Sharon.
My comments were NOT directed at anyone in Particular….and especially not at you.
Your posts are often Spirited but IMHO thoughtfull and well worth reading.
Blessings
December 6th, 2008 at 7:35 pmspeaking of which:
Obama Asks Nation for Input On Reforming Health System
‘We Want Your Exact Ideas,’ Daschle Says
By Ceci Connolly
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, December 6, 2008; Page A07
In between the tree trimming and gift-giving, President-elect Barack Obama is inviting Americans to spend part of the holiday season talking about health care — and report back to him.
December 6th, 2008 at 7:39 pm[...]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/05/AR2008120503322.html
and, from my in-box:
Dear Katy,
Everyday, we meet with organizations that present ideas for the Transition and the incoming Obama-Biden Administration. In past transitions, meetings like this have been held behind closed doors.
Not anymore. Today, every Obama-Biden Transition staff member received a memo outlining the “Seat at the Table” Transparency Policy. I’ve included a copy of it below.
The policy is pretty simple: the people and groups we’re meeting with, the subjects of the meetings, and any documents shared in the meetings will now be made available on Change.gov. Most importantly, the American public can weigh in with comments or their own materials.
This is our latest step toward a more transparent and accessible Transition. We look forward to benefitting from the many more voices that will now be a part of the decision-making process.
Thank you,
John
John D. Podesta
December 6th, 2008 at 7:44 pmCo-chair
The Obama-Biden Transition Project
Retired Army Gen. Eric Shinseki will be named as Barack Obama’s Secretary of Veterans’ Affairs Sunday afternoon in Chicago.
The surprise pick adds yet another heavyweight to the Obama cabinet, and also takes a not-so-subtle slap at President Bush’s original national security team.
December 6th, 2008 at 7:46 pmThank you Badger, thought I had lost my touch.My X told me more than once I was the only women he had ever met that could tell him to go to hell and made him feel like it was a place he wanted to go..LOL…It was not intent to sand bag Another Joe either, some of his posts are excellent…Just in fighting on the blog’s is such a waste of time and space….Blessings all and have a nice evening…
December 6th, 2008 at 7:49 pmImpeach, sorry,…No I have not. will try and get a copy soon and read it..Have read every speech he has spoken in the house though…A very good man indeed.Blessings and Thank’s for the info..
December 6th, 2008 at 7:55 pmWitch1
December 6th, 2008 at 7:59 pmI always enjoy your posts; I read every one.
Glad to see you around a little more these days.
We must give Obama a chance to prove he can accomplish good for America – we desperately need it – I won’t always agree with Obama on his decisions, it has already happened, BUT, I believe him to be a decent guy with a vision to improve America for its citizens, not just the well-to-do and the well-connected. I think he has to make some compromises at first in order to get the large support that is going to be needed in order to accomplish those big-picture goals.
I expect that he is going to be a good president – and it is disappointing that some people are setting the bar so high for him that he cannot possibly meet it. I realize that impatience plays a role in that, and the next 45 days can’t pass soon enough, but Obama is not president yet, even as he is more presidential now than Bush ever was in 8 years, yet, we must wait till he takes office, and then give him time to show what he can do.
I only hope that the nation can stay alive 45 more days.
badger – lets be clear, most blog with their minds already made up and that is OK.
We can scroll past anyone we know we disagree with. Very few things I will disagree with except the dogma that all dems are good and anyone that asks questions is bad.
Like I said before – the leading progressive in the senate is Russ and he calls out his party because he knows they need to hear it.
I have to just laugh at people that say support dems, applaud russ for making legit points, and then want to flame bloggers that make the same points.
But anyone with any experience at this knows that we primarily sing to the choir here and very few minds get changed.
December 6th, 2008 at 8:02 pmAnd when I were a kid we had bicycles too and they even had fancy-smancy wheels too. But we didn’t just ride them on the sidewalk or on people’s lawns. We took them hunting we did.
I could shoot a squirrel off a fence and not even take my hands of the handle bars. Put the gun in my mouth, I did. One time, had the barrel backwards. Boy did I have something to explain to my mom.
But it didn’t matter because back then we didn’t care if we looked nice. We didn’t have anything but greasy kids stuff for our hair. And, oh boy, you could smoke that too. We didn’t need any grass or mary-a-wanna because we had our hair all doped up.
December 6th, 2008 at 8:05 pmBack at ya Marie, Good post…Thank you for posting….Blessings
Another Joe, you would be so suprised if you knew all I have learned from this site and the link’s posted to other site’s..Even old women can learn, there is so much I didn’t know untill I got a computer and arrived here….This site is not a vacume or a choir but one has to read and respond or not with a lot of tolerance and forgivness or nothing sink’s in…Not preaching, just my thought’s…Blessings
December 6th, 2008 at 8:18 pmWitch – I find the self-proclaimed “liberal blogs” stand for very little liberal at all. I have been reading these for years, signed up with handle this year. Don’t specifically remember too many names – like many, just remember the ones that are obnoxious.
I can respect when folks don’t agree, but when people demand that I tow the party line for dems, I won’t accept that.
Yes, I voted a straight dem ticket this year and I am willing to give Obama a chance – we have to – we live in dangerous times.
I expect more from the leaders that promised us change in 2006 and the capitulated to everything the most unpopular president in US history demanded. This was inexcusable.
The Left/Right and Dem/Repug vision of the world is just plain wrong, it is not how reality works, in 2 dimensions.
But witch, I also know that those that insist on a world with only 2 choices are not very bright and probably cannot understand anything more than their simplistic world-view.
Usually, I ignore those people, but when they follow me from thread to thread totally mispresenting what I and others say, then I will let them know what I think.
No, they are not worth it – I know the mindless dem cheerleaders here are not really that important.
The democratic party needs to remember that progressives don’t have to support a “repuglican light” – in fact, many won’t.
December 6th, 2008 at 8:40 pmWhat I am saying is that few minds are changed, but I find links and different viewpoints. That is my primary reason for coming, I have left many of the blogs, however, because they want to make everything dem/repug and that doesn’t solve problems either.
After all, it was the DEMS that made it impossible to reform healthcare under the clintons and bill got away with policies that st. ronnie ray-gun would never have even attempted.
December 6th, 2008 at 8:43 pm“While Americans’ decisive call for change this election was a clear repudiation of the Bush administration’s conduct, failing to act swiftly to reverse the damage could essentially legitimize that conduct and the extreme legal theories on which it was based. That is why it is critically important for President-elect Obama to unequivocally renounce President Bush’s extreme claims of executive authority.”
Russ Feingold
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/12/6/15643/8723/77/670144
December 6th, 2008 at 8:45 pmvery cool… thanks, marie…
General Critical of Iraq War Is Pick for VA Chief
December 6th, 2008 at 9:24 pmNew York Times – 42 minutes ago
By JACKIE CALMES CHICAGO – President-elect Barack Obama has chosen retired Gen. Eric K. Shinseki to be secretary of the Veterans Affairs Department, elevating the former Army chief of staff, who was vilified by the Bush administration on the eve of the …
Obama picks general to lead veterans affairs Reuters
Rumsfeld nemesis Shinseki to be named VA secretary The Associated Press
Bloomberg – CNN – AFP – United Press International
all 400 news articles »
http://news.google.com/?ncl=1278154779&hl=en&topic=h
Katy – That was at Talking Points Memo earlier today – great write up at link above. You can get stuff much faster at sites like those abvove
December 6th, 2008 at 9:28 pmAnother Joe Says:
Curlew – not good enough. The dems capitulating to every demands has established a precedence that any other president can point to, proclaiming that all this kind of stuff is fully legal.
This is a start, but Obama and the dems need to do much more to seize the moment and make a strong statement that we are a constitutional democracy with three equal branches of government.
There is no UNITARY EXECUTIVE
I agree.
repugs will do it again
they are rats and sneaks
How much affect did deathcheneybuckshot have on Congress?
December 6th, 2008 at 10:48 pmVia Joe’s post I saw this vid How to Make an Angry American. It’s pretty good.
Basically it support Joe’s and mine views
December 6th, 2008 at 11:14 pmIt is SO nice to actually have human beings in charge of the Executive Branch once again.
December 6th, 2008 at 11:46 pmAnother Joe
you are one soul hard to figure out. Why do you bother with negative comments such as:
Another Joe Says:
hey katy – here’s a new thing on the tubes, called GOOGLE.
Look what you can find if you have an open mind and don’t mind a few facts
was that necessary? Why katy? Seriously, I do not understand.
And that is not an isolated incident as I have seen you throw hurtful comments out to others also.
December 6th, 2008 at 11:50 pmHas anybody thought that Joe Biden may just be lazy? After all, he cannot measure up to Our Fearless Leader, Dick Cheney.
December 7th, 2008 at 4:18 amthe most dangerous vice president we’ve had probably in American history.”
Ummm, that was probably Aaron Burr. Cheney merely peppered an elderly lawyer with bird-shot. Burr actually killed a guy (and not just ANY guy; he killed the Treasury Secretary.) We cna only WISH Cheney had killed Paulson…
December 7th, 2008 at 9:20 amDomino Says:
no. boil on his butt cheney is a coward.
December 7th, 2008 at 11:22 amThe first thing Sen. Joe Biden should do after he’s sworn in as vice president is to find Cheney’s staffing list and disclose who has been working for Cheney all these years.
The second thing should be finding Cheney’s Secret Service visitor list and disclose who has been visiting Cheney over the years, both at the Naval Observatory, at his multi-million dollar mansion outside Washington D.C. and at any other secret “undisclosed locations.”
The third thing should be VP Biden opening Cheney’s elephant-sized safe and seeing what’s inside. Maybe Osama bin Laden’s rotting corpse? Nazi gold? The missing WMD? Bush’s brain?
A thorough VP house-cleaning is necessary. Industrial strength deodorant will be required. Cheney’s smell and poisonous policies will linger for years.
December 7th, 2008 at 10:37 pmYou nailed it, wizard2000!
Biden needn’t look too deep to find some blood-stained Halliburton money in Cheney’s elephant-sized safe!
Please, don’t let this man walk away…….
December 8th, 2008 at 12:43 pm