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	<title>Comments on: EPA Administrator Stephen Johnson: There’s ‘not a clean-cut division’ between religion and science.</title>
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		<title>By: youtube</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/comment-page-3/#comment-5522856</link>
		<dc:creator>youtube</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 15:32:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/#comment-5522856</guid>
		<description>There were, in fact, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dostcafem.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;cet&lt;/a&gt;many theories about evolution being developed in the 19th century but Darwin’s was based on extensive observation of both biological&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dostcafem.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Bedava mp3 indir&lt;/a&gt; and geological phenomenon. As a hard science student, I have found that science is&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dostcafem.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;sohbet&lt;/a&gt; neither passive nor objective</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There were, in fact, <a href="http://www.dostcafem.com" rel="nofollow">cet</a>many theories about evolution being developed in the 19th century but Darwin’s was based on extensive observation of both biological<a href="http://www.dostcafem.com" rel="nofollow">Bedava mp3 indir</a> and geological phenomenon. As a hard science student, I have found that science is<a href="http://www.dostcafem.com" rel="nofollow">sohbet</a> neither passive nor objective<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=5522856', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: brynn47</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/comment-page-3/#comment-5495078</link>
		<dc:creator>brynn47</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 22:44:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/#comment-5495078</guid>
		<description>I think Johnson is doing abominable things, but I also kind of agree about the overlap. religion may not overlap with the scientific method, but these are both ways to interpret the phenomenon of existence, which can be studied as science and/or spirituality. This is where I am at right now ideologically, but if &quot;god&quot; is energy, and science studies matter and forces which are also energy, than how different are they? I think he is confusing &quot;science&quot; with &quot;empiricism&quot; and &quot;religion&quot; with &quot;spirituality.&quot; They&#039;re not the same.
As a hard science student, I have found that science is neither passive nor objective. No matter how much data you gather, you still have to interpret it by making some kind of value judgement, like deciding where is the cut-off point determining whether or not the relationship between two variables is &quot;significant&quot;? And if you don&#039;t, then someone else did at some point in history.
I think we should also remember that we can never know everything. We are always learning and what were &quot;miracles&quot; that could only be explained by the supernatural hundreds of years ago is what we call science today. Maybe theres a whole other piece of the puzzle we haven&#039;t found yet? 
What I&#039;m saying is, trust in scientifically-generated knowledge, but understand that nothing is completely proven or judgement-free.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Johnson is doing abominable things, but I also kind of agree about the overlap. religion may not overlap with the scientific method, but these are both ways to interpret the phenomenon of existence, which can be studied as science and/or spirituality. This is where I am at right now ideologically, but if &#8220;god&#8221; is energy, and science studies matter and forces which are also energy, than how different are they? I think he is confusing &#8220;science&#8221; with &#8220;empiricism&#8221; and &#8220;religion&#8221; with &#8220;spirituality.&#8221; They&#8217;re not the same.<br />
As a hard science student, I have found that science is neither passive nor objective. No matter how much data you gather, you still have to interpret it by making some kind of value judgement, like deciding where is the cut-off point determining whether or not the relationship between two variables is &#8220;significant&#8221;? And if you don&#8217;t, then someone else did at some point in history.<br />
I think we should also remember that we can never know everything. We are always learning and what were &#8220;miracles&#8221; that could only be explained by the supernatural hundreds of years ago is what we call science today. Maybe theres a whole other piece of the puzzle we haven&#8217;t found yet?<br />
What I&#8217;m saying is, trust in scientifically-generated knowledge, but understand that nothing is completely proven or judgement-free.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=5495078', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: sam Hussein dobermann</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/comment-page-3/#comment-5375076</link>
		<dc:creator>sam Hussein dobermann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:17:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/#comment-5375076</guid>
		<description>It is obvious that Ginsu has no clue what Darwin&#039;s &quot;Theory of evolution&quot; is. He blathers:


&lt;blockquote&gt;For those willing to consider a few facts about science and religion, evolutionary theory has never produced evidence of one species turning to another. True enough that there are adaptations within a species (evidence of a marvelous design), but never has science observed a cat turning into a dog for example. It just doesn’t happen, yet science claims that “one day” we will observe it.

and on and on and on...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

He is making a straw man argument. He proposes a mish mash of sillyness and claims that science tells us ...

But no scientist has ever said a cat would turn into a dog. That could not happen and has never been proposed by any evolutionist (which means scientist who studies evolution.,).

Actually language has been misused from the get go. Evolution is a fact. What Darwin did was to explain how it wored
There were, in fact, many theories about evolution being developed in the 19th century but Darwin&#039;s was based on extensive observation of both biological and geological phenomenon. 

Darwin&#039;s book that set society on its heels was title &quot;The Origin of the Species&quot; and that&#039;s what he discussed and explained. I suggest you who so adamantly don&#039;t &quot;believe in evolution&quot; read Darwin&#039;s book (which is on line) which is so well written that it is actually used in some Literature classes.

Either read that or read Mayr&#039;s book &quot;What Evolution Is&quot;.  Mayr&#039;s book is rather difficult but does not presuppose any knowledge or belief. In fact he suggests that it would be suitable for those who don&#039;t &quot;believe in evolution&quot; so that they can argue sensibly.

And no, spewing a lot of verbiage about your perverted view of the Bible does not have any weight in arguing against evolution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is obvious that Ginsu has no clue what Darwin&#8217;s &#8220;Theory of evolution&#8221; is. He blathers:</p>
<blockquote><p>For those willing to consider a few facts about science and religion, evolutionary theory has never produced evidence of one species turning to another. True enough that there are adaptations within a species (evidence of a marvelous design), but never has science observed a cat turning into a dog for example. It just doesn’t happen, yet science claims that “one day” we will observe it.</p>
<p>and on and on and on&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>He is making a straw man argument. He proposes a mish mash of sillyness and claims that science tells us &#8230;</p>
<p>But no scientist has ever said a cat would turn into a dog. That could not happen and has never been proposed by any evolutionist (which means scientist who studies evolution.,).</p>
<p>Actually language has been misused from the get go. Evolution is a fact. What Darwin did was to explain how it wored<br />
There were, in fact, many theories about evolution being developed in the 19th century but Darwin&#8217;s was based on extensive observation of both biological and geological phenomenon. </p>
<p>Darwin&#8217;s book that set society on its heels was title &#8220;The Origin of the Species&#8221; and that&#8217;s what he discussed and explained. I suggest you who so adamantly don&#8217;t &#8220;believe in evolution&#8221; read Darwin&#8217;s book (which is on line) which is so well written that it is actually used in some Literature classes.</p>
<p>Either read that or read Mayr&#8217;s book &#8220;What Evolution Is&#8221;.  Mayr&#8217;s book is rather difficult but does not presuppose any knowledge or belief. In fact he suggests that it would be suitable for those who don&#8217;t &#8220;believe in evolution&#8221; so that they can argue sensibly.</p>
<p>And no, spewing a lot of verbiage about your perverted view of the Bible does not have any weight in arguing against evolution.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=5375076', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: DuckPhup</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/comment-page-3/#comment-5374944</link>
		<dc:creator>DuckPhup</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 03:37:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/#comment-5374944</guid>
		<description>49erDem wrote: &quot;The cognitive dissonance on a daily basis must be a great challenge for them.&quot;

Actually, the problem... and the amazing thing... is that they are able to &#039;think&#039; like that &lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;without&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/strong&gt; experiencing cognitive dissonance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>49erDem wrote: &#8220;The cognitive dissonance on a daily basis must be a great challenge for them.&#8221;</p>
<p>Actually, the problem&#8230; and the amazing thing&#8230; is that they are able to &#8216;think&#8217; like that <strong><em>without</em></strong> experiencing cognitive dissonance.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=5374944', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Recovered catholic</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/comment-page-3/#comment-5374872</link>
		<dc:creator>Recovered catholic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 01:39:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/#comment-5374872</guid>
		<description>I think I can shed a bit of light on why the catholic Pope did not have an issue with evolution. I used to be very religious in my early teens, read the bible each night, went to confession weekly, and all the things that should make me an &quot;expert&quot; according to fundamentalist opinions I read. The main reason to attend confession as I got older was to ask the priest to explain all the hateful, violent, or otherwise contradictory &quot;facts&quot; I noticed after reading the bible on the 2nd, 3rd and final passes. It seems my maturing neocortex was interfering with the faith amygdala hijacking mechanisms instilled during my toddler years. I finally went agnostic somewhere in the 4th reading. During one of my &quot;stump the priest&quot; sessions, I asked why all the protestants were against evolution, but our priest never brought it up in his sermons. He laughed and explained there were 2 reasons for this discrepancy. 

1. Catholics had learned some lessons from messing with Galileo and Copernicus, and were reading the bible a bit more deeply before kindling the stakes these days. The church does not believe the bible is meant to be taken literally, but requires knowledge of history, the cultures that wrote the bible at the time, etc. Of course the pope also has a direct bat phone to god, so there are still problems at times.
2. He and some catholic scholars felt Genesis could be interpreted to actually prove evolution ocurred. Biblical humans were running around naked, just eating fruits that fell off trees, and were doing no work or using tools in any fashion while in Eden. So until they ate the fruit of the &quot;tree of knowlege of good and evil&quot;, they basically lived a lot like really dumb primates. The priest likened eating the apple to starting the process of evolution into thinking humans, who were now capable of forming and using tools, hunting, farming, and making clothes. They also left Eden (the origin point of our species in Africa, it turns out for the guy looking for &quot;proof of the bible in scientific discoveries&quot;)and explored the earth, where they further evolved to adapt to differences in climate. 

The final thing the priest noted was that evolution only ocurred because Eve insisted on dragging a resisting and clueless Adam primate to finally evolve. But she evolved first. Despite that, I still left the church due to their poor treatment of women in both human and spiritual rights. But I still have to award a few points for their capability to use reason in at least this area, compared to other fundamentalists. This is my first-ever posting, so I hope this is useful to someone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I can shed a bit of light on why the catholic Pope did not have an issue with evolution. I used to be very religious in my early teens, read the bible each night, went to confession weekly, and all the things that should make me an &#8220;expert&#8221; according to fundamentalist opinions I read. The main reason to attend confession as I got older was to ask the priest to explain all the hateful, violent, or otherwise contradictory &#8220;facts&#8221; I noticed after reading the bible on the 2nd, 3rd and final passes. It seems my maturing neocortex was interfering with the faith amygdala hijacking mechanisms instilled during my toddler years. I finally went agnostic somewhere in the 4th reading. During one of my &#8220;stump the priest&#8221; sessions, I asked why all the protestants were against evolution, but our priest never brought it up in his sermons. He laughed and explained there were 2 reasons for this discrepancy. </p>
<p>1. Catholics had learned some lessons from messing with Galileo and Copernicus, and were reading the bible a bit more deeply before kindling the stakes these days. The church does not believe the bible is meant to be taken literally, but requires knowledge of history, the cultures that wrote the bible at the time, etc. Of course the pope also has a direct bat phone to god, so there are still problems at times.<br />
2. He and some catholic scholars felt Genesis could be interpreted to actually prove evolution ocurred. Biblical humans were running around naked, just eating fruits that fell off trees, and were doing no work or using tools in any fashion while in Eden. So until they ate the fruit of the &#8220;tree of knowlege of good and evil&#8221;, they basically lived a lot like really dumb primates. The priest likened eating the apple to starting the process of evolution into thinking humans, who were now capable of forming and using tools, hunting, farming, and making clothes. They also left Eden (the origin point of our species in Africa, it turns out for the guy looking for &#8220;proof of the bible in scientific discoveries&#8221;)and explored the earth, where they further evolved to adapt to differences in climate. </p>
<p>The final thing the priest noted was that evolution only ocurred because Eve insisted on dragging a resisting and clueless Adam primate to finally evolve. But she evolved first. Despite that, I still left the church due to their poor treatment of women in both human and spiritual rights. But I still have to award a few points for their capability to use reason in at least this area, compared to other fundamentalists. This is my first-ever posting, so I hope this is useful to someone.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=5374872', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: 49erDem</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/comment-page-3/#comment-5374558</link>
		<dc:creator>49erDem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 22:41:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/#comment-5374558</guid>
		<description>zbphs: &quot;As long as EPA is committed to the task of cleaning up Superfund messes scattered around the country, I really don’t care about Mr. Johnson’s personal beliefs.&quot;

What on earth makes you believe the EPA has had ANY commitment to clean up Superfund cites during the last 8 years? And, do you really think it&#039;s irrelevant that people running what should be a science-based department believe in creation? I think their religious beliefs is part of the reason they&#039;re incompetent and unwilling to do their civic duties.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>zbphs: &#8220;As long as EPA is committed to the task of cleaning up Superfund messes scattered around the country, I really don’t care about Mr. Johnson’s personal beliefs.&#8221;</p>
<p>What on earth makes you believe the EPA has had ANY commitment to clean up Superfund cites during the last 8 years? And, do you really think it&#8217;s irrelevant that people running what should be a science-based department believe in creation? I think their religious beliefs is part of the reason they&#8217;re incompetent and unwilling to do their civic duties.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=5374558', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: pdennany</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/comment-page-3/#comment-5374504</link>
		<dc:creator>pdennany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 22:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/#comment-5374504</guid>
		<description>The Christian bible scripture has thousands of different beliefs and demominations even in supposed one church environments.  Fact is no one believes exactly the same on what their god is. Science deals with fact and study of the known and proven, and with that make further functional probabilities based on real and provable assumptions rather from abstracts and emotions of spiritual choices, and it is not realistic to attempt competition with the two fields.  My God of old is completely abstract,if he ever really talks to me I hope I would get help in searching out mental health assistance. Bush pretends to be a lot more stupid than he is, and we let him get away with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Christian bible scripture has thousands of different beliefs and demominations even in supposed one church environments.  Fact is no one believes exactly the same on what their god is. Science deals with fact and study of the known and proven, and with that make further functional probabilities based on real and provable assumptions rather from abstracts and emotions of spiritual choices, and it is not realistic to attempt competition with the two fields.  My God of old is completely abstract,if he ever really talks to me I hope I would get help in searching out mental health assistance. Bush pretends to be a lot more stupid than he is, and we let him get away with it.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=5374504', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: zbvhs</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/comment-page-3/#comment-5374238</link>
		<dc:creator>zbvhs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:51:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/#comment-5374238</guid>
		<description>As long as EPA is committed to the task of cleaning up Superfund messes scattered around the country, I really don&#039;t care about Mr. Johnson&#039;s personal beliefs. The real question is: What is EPA under Johnson doing or not doing that needs to be changed?

These ad hominen round-and-round arguments just pit angry atheists against angry believers and produce nothing of lasting value.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As long as EPA is committed to the task of cleaning up Superfund messes scattered around the country, I really don&#8217;t care about Mr. Johnson&#8217;s personal beliefs. The real question is: What is EPA under Johnson doing or not doing that needs to be changed?</p>
<p>These ad hominen round-and-round arguments just pit angry atheists against angry believers and produce nothing of lasting value.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=5374238', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: CageyCretin</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/comment-page-3/#comment-5374040</link>
		<dc:creator>CageyCretin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 18:55:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/#comment-5374040</guid>
		<description>I think that this thread is heading to the morgue (ooohhh double entendre. Score!). And I am off this one. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that this thread is heading to the morgue (ooohhh double entendre. Score!). And I am off this one. :)<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=5374040', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: 49erDem</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/comment-page-3/#comment-5374022</link>
		<dc:creator>49erDem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 18:45:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/#comment-5374022</guid>
		<description>Thanks Cagey, and I would say that around these parts, you&#039;re definitely NOT alone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Cagey, and I would say that around these parts, you&#8217;re definitely NOT alone.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=5374022', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: CageyCretin</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/comment-page-3/#comment-5373992</link>
		<dc:creator>CageyCretin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 18:30:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/#comment-5373992</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;49erDem Says: 
 ginsu shows us the only methodolocy they have left - kind of like philosophical bomb-throwing or ideological terrorism. Throw your rhetorical, bible-based bomb and quickly leave the area. It’s the way cowards argue.&lt;/em&gt;

Well stated, sir/madamme! Very well stated. And I&#039;m gald to know that I am not alone in having to deal with this &#039;tactic&#039;. Now I have a new theme to give it. Thanks! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>49erDem Says:<br />
 ginsu shows us the only methodolocy they have left &#8211; kind of like philosophical bomb-throwing or ideological terrorism. Throw your rhetorical, bible-based bomb and quickly leave the area. It’s the way cowards argue.</em></p>
<p>Well stated, sir/madamme! Very well stated. And I&#8217;m gald to know that I am not alone in having to deal with this &#8216;tactic&#8217;. Now I have a new theme to give it. Thanks! :)<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=5373992', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: 49erDem</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/comment-page-3/#comment-5373980</link>
		<dc:creator>49erDem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 18:20:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/#comment-5373980</guid>
		<description>Poor fundamentalists. The cognitive dissonance on a daily basis must be a great challenge for them. ginsu shows us the only methodolocy they have left - kind of like philosophical bomb-throwing or ideological terrorism. Throw your rhetorical, bible-based bomb and quickly leave the area. It&#039;s the way cowards argue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Poor fundamentalists. The cognitive dissonance on a daily basis must be a great challenge for them. ginsu shows us the only methodolocy they have left &#8211; kind of like philosophical bomb-throwing or ideological terrorism. Throw your rhetorical, bible-based bomb and quickly leave the area. It&#8217;s the way cowards argue.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=5373980', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: nanlichi</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/comment-page-3/#comment-5373974</link>
		<dc:creator>nanlichi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 18:16:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/#comment-5373974</guid>
		<description>Hey ginsu.  Shove your religion up your ass.

You can saddle up that three day old, rotten, fly blown corpse and ride it to Heaven if you like, just keep your fantasies out of my government and classroom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey ginsu.  Shove your religion up your ass.</p>
<p>You can saddle up that three day old, rotten, fly blown corpse and ride it to Heaven if you like, just keep your fantasies out of my government and classroom.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=5373974', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: 49erDem</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/comment-page-3/#comment-5373934</link>
		<dc:creator>49erDem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 18:03:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/#comment-5373934</guid>
		<description>ginsu: &quot;I am just writing this to encourage a little research and critical thinking into some alternative viewpoints for those who don’t already know everything.&quot;

The guy who thinks a 2000-year old collection of stories written by multiple authors is the last authority on current geo-political conflict thinks we need to do a little research and engage in &quot;critical thinking.&quot;

Okay, that&#039;s just hilarious. These people are simply amazing!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ginsu: &#8220;I am just writing this to encourage a little research and critical thinking into some alternative viewpoints for those who don’t already know everything.&#8221;</p>
<p>The guy who thinks a 2000-year old collection of stories written by multiple authors is the last authority on current geo-political conflict thinks we need to do a little research and engage in &#8220;critical thinking.&#8221;</p>
<p>Okay, that&#8217;s just hilarious. These people are simply amazing!<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=5373934', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: 49erDem</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/comment-page-3/#comment-5373926</link>
		<dc:creator>49erDem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 17:59:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/#comment-5373926</guid>
		<description>ginsu: &quot;Finally, if I were a gambling man (I am not), I would wager that most of you writing so critically of religion will be out buying Christmas gifts this month. How hypocritical! On the other hand, real Christians don’t observe that holiday. Rather, they observe those things found in the Scriptures. Just food for thought.&quot;

An unintentional look at the tortured and confused mind of a religious fundamentalist: He calls us &quot;hypocritical&quot; for buying Christmas presents, but then offers that &quot;real Christians&quot; don&#039;t observe the holiday. Hey stupid: if we are not &quot;real Christians&quot; like you are, then how can we be &quot;hypocritical&quot; for buying presents?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ginsu: &#8220;Finally, if I were a gambling man (I am not), I would wager that most of you writing so critically of religion will be out buying Christmas gifts this month. How hypocritical! On the other hand, real Christians don’t observe that holiday. Rather, they observe those things found in the Scriptures. Just food for thought.&#8221;</p>
<p>An unintentional look at the tortured and confused mind of a religious fundamentalist: He calls us &#8220;hypocritical&#8221; for buying Christmas presents, but then offers that &#8220;real Christians&#8221; don&#8217;t observe the holiday. Hey stupid: if we are not &#8220;real Christians&#8221; like you are, then how can we be &#8220;hypocritical&#8221; for buying presents?<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=5373926', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: 49erDem</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/comment-page-3/#comment-5373912</link>
		<dc:creator>49erDem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 17:53:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/#comment-5373912</guid>
		<description>ginsu, your religion-centric view of the nature of science is simply wrong. You do not need &quot;faith&quot; to understand or accept almost any tenet of science. I might be willing to agree that at this time one needs to have a modicum of &quot;faith&quot; to accept certain new concepts in quantum physics, but that &quot;faith&quot; is not in God, but in the ability scientists to theorize unvelievably complicated possibilities about the nature of the universe. But, the evidence on something like the theory of evolution is widespread. Virtually every related discipline confirms the theory in one way or another.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ginsu, your religion-centric view of the nature of science is simply wrong. You do not need &#8220;faith&#8221; to understand or accept almost any tenet of science. I might be willing to agree that at this time one needs to have a modicum of &#8220;faith&#8221; to accept certain new concepts in quantum physics, but that &#8220;faith&#8221; is not in God, but in the ability scientists to theorize unvelievably complicated possibilities about the nature of the universe. But, the evidence on something like the theory of evolution is widespread. Virtually every related discipline confirms the theory in one way or another.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=5373912', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: 49erDem</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/comment-page-3/#comment-5373906</link>
		<dc:creator>49erDem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 17:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/#comment-5373906</guid>
		<description>ginsu: &quot;For those willing to consider a few facts about science and religion, evolutionary theory has never produced evidence of one species turning to another.&quot;

That&#039;s a gross distortion. There are scores of fossil evidence showing &quot;bridge&quot; characteristics displayed between one form and another - feathers on dinosours, feet and rudimentary lungs on fish; even the ability of higher primates to make and use rudimentary tools.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ginsu: &#8220;For those willing to consider a few facts about science and religion, evolutionary theory has never produced evidence of one species turning to another.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a gross distortion. There are scores of fossil evidence showing &#8220;bridge&#8221; characteristics displayed between one form and another &#8211; feathers on dinosours, feet and rudimentary lungs on fish; even the ability of higher primates to make and use rudimentary tools.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=5373906', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: CageyCretin</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/comment-page-3/#comment-5373904</link>
		<dc:creator>CageyCretin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 17:46:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/#comment-5373904</guid>
		<description>And Mr/Ms ginsu -- you have the right to come and post once, never to return. However, it displays that you are not able to sustain a discussion of your argument. While that alone does not invalidate the argument, it does raise immediate questions as to the soundness of that argument.  However, mr/ms ginsu, you display a trait I regularly encounter with many people who call themselves religious:  that is to state your belief, and then flee from any discussion. That is often because of an inability to defend the argument -- usually because the argument is not one derived from self-examination, but rememebered from having been told that this is what to believe. And, in truth, that was the most interesting part of that post -- the admitted flight from discussion.  I would not have been critical if the excuse was that you had no more time today, or even that you&#039;d TRY to check in later (no promises). Those I can empathise with. But to step into an argument, refute others in the discussion, and then patently admit to cutting and running.... I can&#039;t respect that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And Mr/Ms ginsu &#8212; you have the right to come and post once, never to return. However, it displays that you are not able to sustain a discussion of your argument. While that alone does not invalidate the argument, it does raise immediate questions as to the soundness of that argument.  However, mr/ms ginsu, you display a trait I regularly encounter with many people who call themselves religious:  that is to state your belief, and then flee from any discussion. That is often because of an inability to defend the argument &#8212; usually because the argument is not one derived from self-examination, but rememebered from having been told that this is what to believe. And, in truth, that was the most interesting part of that post &#8212; the admitted flight from discussion.  I would not have been critical if the excuse was that you had no more time today, or even that you&#8217;d TRY to check in later (no promises). Those I can empathise with. But to step into an argument, refute others in the discussion, and then patently admit to cutting and running&#8230;. I can&#8217;t respect that.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=5373904', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: CageyCretin</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/comment-page-3/#comment-5373898</link>
		<dc:creator>CageyCretin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 17:44:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/#comment-5373898</guid>
		<description>Well, several have stated that Bush&#039;s statement of his personal belief is not unreasonable, or at least it is his to own without reprisal. And while we have Bush quoted above, the thread topic is Johnson&#039;s ABSOLUTE statement (not framed as &quot;his belief&quot;, but as if it were a FACT) that there is not a clean cut between science and religion, and that stated in regard to a SECUALR GOVERMENTAL position. While this may be true in his mind, and in the minds of some other people, such people should not be in such &lt;em&gt;secualr governemtnal positions&lt;/em&gt;. They can work for think tanks that agree, periodicals that meld science and religion, they can write books. But when policy decisions are made utilizing any one religious dogma, which is what this conflation comes down to, then the government is not only selecting, but forcing the populace to accept that dogma.  

The defenders of this man&#039;s thinking would be 180 degrees opposite in their opinion if this were a follower of Islam presenting a mix of science and Islamic religion. Or any other religion aside from christianity. Defense of this kind of mixture of policy and religion ONLY occurs because the defending person is a believer in that religion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, several have stated that Bush&#8217;s statement of his personal belief is not unreasonable, or at least it is his to own without reprisal. And while we have Bush quoted above, the thread topic is Johnson&#8217;s ABSOLUTE statement (not framed as &#8220;his belief&#8221;, but as if it were a FACT) that there is not a clean cut between science and religion, and that stated in regard to a SECUALR GOVERMENTAL position. While this may be true in his mind, and in the minds of some other people, such people should not be in such <em>secualr governemtnal positions</em>. They can work for think tanks that agree, periodicals that meld science and religion, they can write books. But when policy decisions are made utilizing any one religious dogma, which is what this conflation comes down to, then the government is not only selecting, but forcing the populace to accept that dogma.  </p>
<p>The defenders of this man&#8217;s thinking would be 180 degrees opposite in their opinion if this were a follower of Islam presenting a mix of science and Islamic religion. Or any other religion aside from christianity. Defense of this kind of mixture of policy and religion ONLY occurs because the defending person is a believer in that religion.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=5373898', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: galmud</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/comment-page-3/#comment-5373750</link>
		<dc:creator>galmud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 16:38:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/08/johnson-science-faith/#comment-5373750</guid>
		<description>I dont think Bushs statement is all that unreasonable. Its not like hes saying: 

&quot;Evolution is just a theory. Another interesting theory is intelligent design. Now I personally believe the Bible is the word of God and the Bible says He created the world in 6 days and then he took a nap.&quot;

In fact I would imagine Obama would say something similar. Although he would put it with more eloquence and hopefully not seem so awkwardly reluctant as Bush to accept the theory of Evolution</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dont think Bushs statement is all that unreasonable. Its not like hes saying: </p>
<p>&#8220;Evolution is just a theory. Another interesting theory is intelligent design. Now I personally believe the Bible is the word of God and the Bible says He created the world in 6 days and then he took a nap.&#8221;</p>
<p>In fact I would imagine Obama would say something similar. Although he would put it with more eloquence and hopefully not seem so awkwardly reluctant as Bush to accept the theory of Evolution<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=5373750', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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