Rep. Reyes: Since Torture Might Be Necessary, Obama Should Keep Torture Apologists Hayden, McConnell
Rep. Reyes: Since Torture Might Be Necessary, Obama Should Keep Torture Apologists Hayden, McConnell
Rep. Silvestre Reyes (D-TX), chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, told Congress Daily that President-elect Obama should keep Mike McConnell on as Director of National Intelligence and Michael Hayden as head of the CIA. He said Obama should keep “continuity” in the intelligence sector because we live in “a world that is very dangerous.”
Reyes dismissed concerns over Hayden and McConnell’s records as apologists for torture. He insisted that “there are some options that need to be available” to interrogators — presumably beyond the Army Field Manuel — to get the best information:
Regarding the CIA’s alternative interrogation program, Reyes indicated that his recommendations concerned finding a balance so the agency does not use torture but can get valuable information from suspected terrorists or other detainees.
“There are those that believe that this particular issue has to be dealt with very carefully because there are beliefs that there are some options that need to be available,” Reyes said.
“We don’t want to be known for torturing people. At the same time we don’t want to limit our ability to get information that’s vital and critical to our national security,” he added. “That’s where the new administration is going to have to decide what those parameters are, what those limitations are.”
As the Washington Independent’s Spencer Ackerman notes, Reyes “framed the debate as between effective torture and ineffective compliance with the law.” In fact, torturing does not provide reliable intelligence, as former interrogator (and author) Matthew Alexander told Jon Stewart Monday night:
STEWART: Did you ever see coercive methods pay off?
ALEXANDER: No. … When I was in Iraq, the few times that I saw people use harsh methods, it was always counterproductive. Because the person hunkered down, they were expecting us to do that, and they just shut up. And then I’d have to send somebody in and build back up rapport, reverse that process, and it’d take us longer to get that information.
McConnell and Hayden share Reyes’ approval of torture. McConnell has explained his refusal to move the CIA to the Army Field Manuel rules by denigrating Army servicemen, saying the Field Manuel was “designed for young and inexperienced” soldiers. He apparently does not consider waterboarding to be torture. Similarly, Hayden has dismissed torture as a mere “legal term,” saying we use the term “in a far too casual way.” Hayden apparently retaliated against the CIA’s inspector general for being an outspoken critic of waterboarding, and he may have destroyed interrogation videotapes to cover up the CIA’s use of torture.
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
Oh shit are we gonna play Kung-Fu Fighting and McArthur Park 24/7? That would definately make them talk…
December 10th, 2008 at 7:47 pmAnd this is why Blue Dogs might as well not even be Dems.
December 10th, 2008 at 7:49 pmWith DemoRats like Silvestre Reyes who needs RePugniScums?
December 10th, 2008 at 7:54 pmHopefully Obama tells Reyes to take a hike. What is wrong with these Blue Dog Democrats. Why do they bother to say they are Democrats? If Obama were to keep either McConnell or Hayden, it would be a huge slap in the face for all his supporters. I don’t think he is that dumb. Especially since he has already said that he will never condone torture.
December 10th, 2008 at 7:55 pmBassackwards.
We don’t torture people because it is dangerous – it is dangerous because we torture people.
December 10th, 2008 at 7:56 pmReyes is the House Intelligence Committee member who couldn’t tell which of America’s fundamentalist Muslim enemies were Shia vs. Sunni.
Is Sylvestre floating this trial balloon on behalf of Democratic leadership? If so, that’s a bad sign for us change voters.
December 10th, 2008 at 7:59 pmTime to pull the chain and flush this bastard. It is beyond me that these morons cannot understand torture is WRONG! It has been proven better and more reliable information is obtained from other methods. What kind of sick bastards these morons are.
December 10th, 2008 at 8:09 pmSilvestre Reyes is an idiot. He needs to be put out to pasture.
December 10th, 2008 at 8:19 pmYeah, but you’ll overlook it, just for him.
After all, you’re saying that because he’s gone out of his way to quote Bush on not condoning torture that means something significant.
Still no word yet on any plans to shut down the secret detention facilities where most of this torturing has occurred? No commitments to ceasing the rendition program that has been operating since the last Democrat president?
No? Well at least he’s quoted Bush’s assurance that the US doesn’t torture I guess. That counts for something, right?
December 10th, 2008 at 8:21 pmIt just amazes me that people feel comfortable publicly suggesting that torture is an option. That says a lot about where this country is.
Obama, use your head. Close Gitmo and dispense of this notion that we can torture, indefinitely detain, and otherwise flout the rule of law without regard to fundamental human rights.
Everyday lately, I want to lower my contributions to the ACLU (due to the economy), and everyday I am reminded why now more than ever they are necessary.
December 10th, 2008 at 8:24 pmSince Reyes doesn’t live far from chimpy’s pig farm, he should immediately go over there and slip into the new layer of scum that has begun forming on the new pond…
Leave taking this country forward to someone else that hasn’t got an oil rig in his front yard…
December 10th, 2008 at 8:26 pmTank Says:
Still no word yet on any plans to shut down the secret detention facilities where most of this torturing has occurred? No commitments to ceasing the rendition program that has been operating since the last Democrat president?
The same rendition program, that under Clinton, did not rendition prisoners to other countries?
He’s got a full plate, and hasn’t yet taken office.
Did someone mention honeymoon?
Obama’s got guys like Tank following him around the chapel before the service, offering his two-bits on husbanding.
December 10th, 2008 at 8:31 pmThe Obama people don’t seem to realize why Bush had a disapproval rating of about 73%. The people do NOT want you to be like the current administration.
December 10th, 2008 at 8:34 pmANOTHER BLUE DOG DEM REPUGLICAN LITE THAT NEEDS TO BE THINNED FROM THE HERD.
REYES CAN JOIN BLAGOJEVICH IN THE ANNALS OF OBLIVION
December 10th, 2008 at 8:43 pmThe only reason these bastards approve of torture so much is simply because they are sadistic. It’s free entertainment to them. I wonder what they would say or do if any one of their children were captured/kidnapped and tortured ruthlessly. These people have nothing substantive to offer humanity. They are just sick, demented and delusional. Terrorists are bought and paid for just like mercenaries. We want and deserve a better world because we are capable of having one. We just need to give the gift of permanent unemployment to a certain group of people that enjoy a world of chaos and destruction.
December 10th, 2008 at 8:46 pm“We don’t torture,” but let’s keep bush appointees ‘Vinnie,’ and ‘The Knuckle’ on staff…’jus in case….
December 10th, 2008 at 8:47 pmWhat you folks seem not to recognize is that America is an empire in decline.
Empires seldom decline gracefully, and never gladly.
You gotta make a WHOLE SHIT-POT of enemies to make an empire. Those enemies remember what you–the empire–did to ‘em on the way up. They wait for the inevitable decline.
Murkins, mostly do not realize theirs is an Empire on the wane. Most of ‘em think–probably most of you think–all that needs to happen is a little jiggling of the economy, send a few thousand troops off to slaughter some benighted population, steal a few natural resources and: BINGO, we’ll be good to go again.
Not true.
The American Empire is in eclipse, fading faster than a month-old X-mas tree in a warm room. And like that tree, it needs only a slight spark to light a conflagration that consumes the whole house.
I hate being the one t break it to y’all, but “we” are history. The future is being written elsewhere…
December 10th, 2008 at 8:50 pmWell screw Reyes!
December 10th, 2008 at 8:56 pmLOL, no. What are you on about?
First of all, you’re contradicting the definition of rendition. If it didn’t transfer them to other countries it wouldn’t have been called rendition.
Second of all, under Clinton, prisoners were routinely transferred to Egypt and Syria to be tortured to death. You can find people like Baer, Cloonan and Scheuer stating this repeatedly, clearly and without controversy over the past decade. That was the whole point of the program.
Are you just ignorant or deliberately trying to rewrite history here?
December 10th, 2008 at 8:59 pmWhat rock did this moron crawl out from under? Maybe the Congressman needs to have electric probes connected to his scrotum. He might change his tune on torture. Then again……
December 10th, 2008 at 9:07 pmGuys like me? What kind of guy am I then?
All I’m saying is you don’t get to have it both ways. If his statements that he doesn’t condone torture and will shut down Gitmo are worth noting, then his non-commitment to ceasing renditions and secret detention facilities are too.
Feel free to admonish everyone else here predicting Obama will cease torture before he takes office on the same grounds too, unless of course this really isn’t your real concern with what I wrote.
December 10th, 2008 at 9:07 pmYep. Rep. Reyes didn’t know al-Qaeda is a Sunni organization– he had a 50 percent chance to guess it right, and he said “Predominantly — probably Shiite.”
December 10th, 2008 at 9:24 pmKeep the pressure on Obama and especially Pelosi. Reyes was a very bad decision on her part. He should be a Republican. He should not be a Dem chair of anything.
December 10th, 2008 at 9:45 pmI expect that a really intelligent person like you can back up these accusations with facts….you know, links? That is unless you are just trying to rewrite history.
December 10th, 2008 at 9:51 pmContinued Reyes, “We don’t want to torture, but we don’t want to not torture. We should kind of half-torture, if you will. Pseudo-torture. Semi-torture. Like, just fix a car battery to one testicle instead of both, that sort of thing.”
December 10th, 2008 at 9:53 pmWe live in “a world that is very dangerous” because bastards like this are in it.
Torture is bad. He’s a bad guy. He must be stopped.
December 10th, 2008 at 10:04 pmReyes ?This guy is another corrupt element of the dem party.Remember before he was chair of Intel,it camme out he was getting contracts for his daughter’s compnay from the intel community.It’s because of this kind of Dem that impeachment proceedings couldn’t be put on the table.He is part of the Dem leadership that knew innocent peoples were being tortured.
December 10th, 2008 at 10:33 pmTank Says:
LOL, no. What are you on about?
First of all, you’re contradicting the definition of rendition. If it didn’t transfer them to other countries it wouldn’t have been called rendition.
Clinton never renditioned suspects outside the US.
Unless you can produce more than hearsay, it’s bunk.
Second of all, under Clinton, prisoners were routinely transferred to Egypt and Syria to be tortured to death. You can find people like Baer, Cloonan and Scheuer stating this repeatedly, clearly and without controversy over the past decade. That was the whole point of the program.
Hearsay.
Scheurer also claimed to have gotten actionable intel from torture – but can’t back it up with documentation.
Hearsay.
December 10th, 2008 at 10:37 pmHow about we get this nutjob kicked off Chairman of the Intel Committee. He sounds like exactly the type you DON’T want around power.
I know he’s from a conservative Texas district, but damn buddy….torture is just wrong. No ifs, ands or buts.
December 10th, 2008 at 10:41 pmTorture is wrong and it has been proven not to work – regardless of whether it works or not – it is wrong and anti-human rights. We used to be a country that at least spoke of human rights although did not honor them. Let’s be our best selves in these matters. The pro-torturers amongst us are sadistic barbarians that need to be squashed. Obama will move past these creeps – but then how will they get their rocks off?
December 10th, 2008 at 11:13 pmWaterboard Reyes, then let’s get his opinion.
December 10th, 2008 at 11:45 pmChrist, our party needs a housecleaning.
December 10th, 2008 at 11:54 pmGod may the republican beat this moron
December 11th, 2008 at 12:00 amWhy try to sound smug if you weren’t even capable of googling the specifics I gave you ?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=torture+syria+baer+OR+cloonan+OR+scheuer
These are all guys talking about the operation of the CIA’s rendition program in the 1990s. Producing such memorable quotes as:
“If you want to get a good interrogation you send a prisoner to Jordan, and the prisons are full in Jordan of American prisoners. If you want somebody tortured to death you send them to Syria. If you never want to hear from them again, send them to Egypt. That’s pretty much the rule.”
abc.net.au/4corners/content/2007/s1947389.htm
Richard Clark, Clinton’s chief CT Adv, wrote a well publicised book “Against All Enemies”. He stated:
“The first time I proposed a snatch, in 1993 … Clinton had seemed to be siding with Cutler until Al Gore … laughed and said, ‘That’s a no-brainer. Of course it’s a violation of international law, that’s why it’s a covert action. The guy is a terrorist. Go grab his ass.’” [15]”
You’re kidding right? There is no investigation/article about the CIA renditions program that doesn’t tell you it started under Clinton for this precise purpose. Are you asking me to educate you from start to finish or are you claiming there is some reference which supports what you are saying is the truth?
Clinton signed an order authorizing it in 1995. That authority is what wikipedia quotes from here:
“Thereafter, with the approval of President Clinton and a presidential directive (PDD 39), the CIA instead elected to send suspects to Egypt, where they were turned over to the Egyptian Mukhabarat.”
Jane Mayer’s “Outsourcing Torture”, the most well read contemporary article on the subject, referring to the effect of Clinton’s authorization for renditions and the Egypt arrangement:
“A series of spectacular covert operations followed from this secret pact. On September 13, 1995, U.S. agents helped kidnap Talaat Fouad Qassem, … in Croatia. … Croatian police seized Qassem in Zagreb and handed him over to U.S. agents, who interrogated him aboard a ship cruising the Adriatic Sea and then took him back to Egypt. Once there, Qassem disappeared. There is no record that he was put on trial. Hossam el-Hamalawy, an Egyptian journalist who covers human-rights issues, said, “We believe he was executed.””
newyorker.com/archive/2005/02/14/050214fa_fact6?currentPage=all
From the same source:
A more elaborate operation was staged in Tirana, Albania, in the summer of 1998. According to the Wall Street Journal, the C.I.A. provided the Albanian intelligence service with equipment … The U.S. pressured Egypt for assistance .. Over the next few months, according to the Journal, Albanian security forces, working with U.S. agents, killed one suspect and captured Attiya and four others. These men were bound, blindfolded, and taken to an abandoned airbase, then flown by jet to Cairo for interrogation. … electrical shocks to his genitals, was hung from his limbs … Two other suspects, who had been sentenced to death in absentia, were hanged.
On August 5, 1998 [al Qaeda] threatened retaliation against the U.S. for the Albanian operation—in a “language they will understand.” Two days later, the U.S. Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were blown up, killing two hundred and twenty-four people.
You’ve read none of these and you are bothering to come here and proclaim things bunk based on nothing other than your complete ignorance on the subject? Well, I guess there’s no such thing as nuclear power generation either, barfly.
I mean, I have no idea how nuclear fission works and I can’t see any links here so it must be bunk, right?
December 11th, 2008 at 12:48 am.
Dear Rep. Silvestre Reyes (D-TX),
What is the redeeming value to torture?
What laws make the use of torture legal?
To suggest that you don’t want America to be known for torture, how does attempting to retain the use of torture as an alternate interrogation technique shatter the title of; The American Torture System?
.
December 11th, 2008 at 1:05 am.
America gets known for being a Nation that tortures because…
… People like Rep. Silvestre Reyes (D-TX) suggest we keep torture as a method of interrogation.
THIS IS HOW AMERICA LOOSES…
.
December 11th, 2008 at 1:07 amTank:
Ignore Fred, he is the village moron.
AIO
December 11th, 2008 at 5:24 amto fred and tank
will you stop bickering about who can produce the better internet sources and read a book. Scholarly sources from university presses or books written by primary sources are where educated people get their information…. you should try it, there are these cool places called libraries and if you get something published by a university press it means its been fact-checked by at least 10 professors, usually 20 (depending on which press it is)
my favorite quote from your bickering was “produce facts.. you know, links?” hilarious.
if this talk of books, libraries and university presses was over your head, then try this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUkpR2Q6Oy8
December 11th, 2008 at 7:00 amcalavzma, I’ve referenced books written by primary sources. You’ll find no scholarly texts on this topic that compare to my amazon reading list when it comes to the topic of renditions of terrorism suspects.
December 11th, 2008 at 7:20 amwell based on the credibility of the google search you posted i doubt it
did you look at the links in the google post. the only two respectable sources on that page are the bbc and amnesty international… both of them only cite examples from the bush years and neither article says anything about clinton, interestingly enough
i haven’t seen you mention a book, you’ve mentioned people and what they said. books have titles, publishers, and copywrite dates.
what amazon reading list? this is very grade school
December 11th, 2008 at 7:35 amyou did cite one book, to your credit, but then you followed it up with wikipedia
wikipedia? really?
ugh
December 11th, 2008 at 7:37 amTank:
Nice derailment. Arguing about what Obama said and ponting out what he didn’t say? How do YOU know that Obama won’t do anything about Gitmo? Or about renditions? Generally speaking, president elects, who have not been sworn into office yet, generally speaking, THEY DON”T LEAD THE COUNTRY YET!!!!!!! You can CLAIM all day long that he will or won’t do this or that, but it is meaningless, unless your magickal crystal ball is showing you the future. Is that what it is?
And WTF is up with you hard-on for Clinton? What does Clinton (how LONG ago was he president?) have to do with this at all? Oh, right, you’re a brain-dead reichwinger who can only spew propoganda that has been beaten into your thick skull, and the biggest part of that propoganda is, “It’s Clinton’s fault.” What a cartload of horse S hit. F^$k Clinton — he is not president, not president elect, and won’t BE president again.
Clinton is, by all appearances, YOUR yardstick, but he is not mine, nor most others here.
December 11th, 2008 at 8:13 amcalavzma,
Tank Says:
calavzma, I’ve referenced books written by primary sources. You’ll find no scholarly texts on this topic that compare to my amazon reading list when it comes to the topic of renditions of terrorism suspects.
He IS the authority! So go “READ a MUDDGUGGIN BOOK…Nigga” just like the video. Loved it.
My question calavzma is, would an internet link to an truly authoritative academic text on google books be allowed?
Just askin’
Tank, psst, sometimes people write whole books just to hear themselves talk and give themselves false “bonafides.”
December 11th, 2008 at 8:19 amThen again, Tank (et. al.), you and your ilk like the thought of torture. It satisfies a deep seated sadistic desire, and feeds a perverse need to see violence upon other humans as a form of retaliation (for threats real or perceived).
I suppose, though, that at no point EVER, will you complain about Americans being tortured for information or retaliation. Right? You don’t care if these “techniques” are used against American soldiers, right?
And why don’t we have our police use these techniques? They are effective in garnering actionable and truthful intelligence, right? Well, the police could use a lot of that. Let’s allow waterboarding in police stations. Let’s allow them to use all these techniques, that by the right’s standards, are not torture. Otherwise we are denying our police all of the useful tools to do their jobs. They could STOP a lot of crimes before they even happen. Of course, if your neighbor did something wrong you might get picked up to be “questioned” for a few days, but it is all for the good of society. That is your beileif, the rightwing belief, that the good of the society is greater than the good of the individual? Right, righty?
December 11th, 2008 at 8:21 amMaybe its time for this to read:
Rep. Silvestre Reyes (D-TX), EX-chairman of the House Intelligence Committee
December 11th, 2008 at 8:22 amCageyCretin,
YOu are not going FAR ENOUGH. The SUSPECT should have his family kidnapped and tortured. I mean how else would you get actionable intel if not to pull the pigtails of a 4yo repeatedly, and did I say give her nuggies also.
These perverse little pieces of shit on the right are fearful of their own shadow. That is why Dick stays in it. He knows the REICHWING have an intense and deepseated fear of the dark. He exploits is. He keeps the lights off in the Offal office and does his best “BOGGGIIEEE, BOOOGGIIIEEE”, every time dinkledoofus walks into the oval office. Scares the shit out of him every time.
God, I want to see these fcuks hang for treason.
December 11th, 2008 at 8:27 amSpeaking as a Texan, I am so sorry that we send morons like this to serve in our government. I don’t know if he has NOT read our Constitution or if he is just too stupid to read. Whatever the problem is it shows that the Texas educational system needs to be fixed. This guy must have gone to school with Alberto Gonzales.
December 11th, 2008 at 8:34 amAlecto
O.k., fair enough. But I kind of cringe at offering the reichwing and its allies (such as Reyes, and our trolls) images of children being tortured. They like that kind of thing way too much. It’s almost cruel in itself: like waving a baggie of crack in front of a jonesing crack head. Cruel, and dangerous.
Many would love to see fair trials conducted in a fair court for treason (which would, I firmly believe, require a few hangings). I have serious doubts that it will happen, though. I think that our system is too broken, and filled with too many corrupt (and thus fearful of prosecution) politicians. I DO hope that the world will demand some justice, but that is in question. Yet, hope springs eternal. Justice SHOULD prevail.
December 11th, 2008 at 8:43 amThis blue dog Reyes is only trying to cover his own @ss. As a member of the House Intel Commitee he undoubtedly had foreknowlege of laws being broken by Bushco. Like Pelosi, Reid and Rockefeller he does not want a light shown on the torture policies as they will show that he knew about them and did nothing but wet his pants and defer to Dick Cheney. He not only deserves to lose his commitee chair but deserves a long jail sentence for aiding and abetting a criminal Administration.
December 11th, 2008 at 9:54 amI guess I gave that away by arguing that Obama should be committing to ceasing more torture programs than he is.
December 11th, 2008 at 10:49 amAre you mentally handicapped?
Sometimes people write comments that say nothing just to involve themselves in a conversation.
If you think that multiple, concurring accounts from the CIA, FBI, Clinton’s head of CT, Egyptian human rights lawyers, researchers and presidential records attesting to the fact that these same people were committing crimes are all wrong because what they all agree happened didn’t, then just say so.
December 11th, 2008 at 10:56 amOtherwise quit talking nonsense.
They should torture everyone who says we should torture people.
December 11th, 2008 at 11:06 amThis is why a new progressive/liberaal party needs to be formed.
The Democratic politicians today are more fascist than Democratic.
December 11th, 2008 at 12:35 pmYou said we should refer to primary sources. Those people are the guy who set up the renditions program, another CIA officer familiar with it and the most prominant and forthright FBI agent on the topic who’s commented on his involvement in CT throughout the 1990s.
I couldn’t care less what websites they are quoted on. Nobody with any serious understanding of sourcing would.
Yes, really. You could always suggest your own preferred summary of topic which carries 130 footnoted references. But you haven’t until now and I know you’re not, because you can’t.
Some of them also generate weeks worth of national press coverage when they’re published. Are we really having a conversation where one of us is saying he’s never heard of Richard Clarke’s “Against All Enemies”?
December 12th, 2008 at 1:03 amYou can search inside it on Amazon if you’d like to confirm the quotes I provided if you like.
Oh sorry, did I derail your excellent point that I was obviously pro-torture because I was suggesting I wanted more commitment to end it?
How disappointed you must be that you wouldn’t be able to provide any response or defense of that nonsense, given your state of derailment.
How do you know OJ Simpson isn’t going to win an Oscar this year? Neither of us has suggested either outcome, so I guess this is just as relevant.
This is an odd paragraph to immediately follow the one where you accuse me of derailing something.
I haven’t claimed anything. I’ve merely stated that he has made no commitment to stopping these programs. I don’t have to claim what that means since it is obvious. Note that his not being president yet didn’t seem to stop him committing to closing Gitmo. A move that was met with almost universal acclaim. Perhaps you’re thinking that committing to closing the secret prisons where detainees are disappeared to for years would have been less well received? No?
Still, this not-the-president excuse runs out in 40 days, so we will see soon enough. I hope someone is working on that replacement excuse.
Have you understood anything that has been written here? I mentioned Clinton only to point out that rendition and torture of terrorism suspects has already occurred under a Democrat administration, hence you may want to seek an assurance it’s going to stop under the next one rather than just assuming it will.
Beyond that, Clinton’s only been discussed because someone claimed Clinton’s well documented and admitted actions never occurred.
Same goes for Bush in 40 days time too I guess.
Never again shall you tolerate anyone referencing the policies Bush established as though they had a meaningful impact on current policy, right?
WTF are you talking about? I’ve said he established what he did and what nobody can deny he did. That makes him “someone from history we are aware of” not a freaking yard stick you fool. If you cannot understand what is being written feel free to just STFU and not waste people’s time attempting to involve yourself.
I couldn’t agree more.
December 12th, 2008 at 1:23 amWhat about crucifixion? Is it really torture, or is it over blown by weak-kneed liberals?
December 12th, 2008 at 7:50 amIt’s never too late to start listening to Alex Jones.
December 12th, 2008 at 1:56 pmhttp://www.gcnlive.com/Programs/AlexJones/On_Demand.html