Conservatives Use Auto Rescue To Engage In Union Busting Campaign
Conservatives Use Auto Rescue To Engage In Union Busting Campaign
Late last night, Senate Republicans blocked a deal brokered by the White House and the Democratic leadership to extend a $15 billion loan to General Motors and Chrysler. Senators were “deadlocked over Republican demands for steep cuts in pay and benefits by the United Automobile Workers union in 2009.” Republicans immediately blamed unions. “It sounds like the U.A.W. blew it up,” said Sen. David Vitter (R-LA). Sen. Richard Shelby (R-AL) said, “[L]abor has got to give. If they want a bill they can get one.”
Sen. Bob Corker (R-TN) — who introduced the pay-cut amendment that sank the agreement — took to the morning shows today to blame the UAW for supposedly refusing to make concessions and allowing “these companies to fall into peril”:
As I wake up this morning, knowing the gravity of where we were, the fact that they were willing to make no concessions — zero — and let these companies fall into peril as they are now, to me, as I wake up today, it’s pretty surreal actually.
Watch a compilation of conservatives pointing the finger at unions:
It’s clear that the Senate Republicans’ main priority was union busting. A memo sent among Senate Republican staffers called for Republicans to “stand firm and take their first shot against organized labor.” Speaking at a press conference this morning, UAW president Ron Gettelfinger said the Republicans made it “very clear” that “there are those who would do away with” unions altogether.
Gettelfinger emphasized that the myth that UAW workers are paid drastically more than employees of foreign auto makers is “simply subterfuge.” The Detroit Free Press reported in 2007 that the union was “losing its edge in pay” compared with non-unionized workers for foreign companies. (He also reminded conservatives that the union had already accepted broad concessions.)
More importantly, Gettelfinger correctly identified Senate Republicans’ main goal: to destroy unions and blame the UAW for the auto industry failure:
It’s just easy to take the union and blame us for everything. And as you can see, some of those in the Senate who were quick to scuttle this plan want to say that it’s the fault of the UAW. All they want to do is say, wait a minute, workers shouldn’t have a voice in their workplace. … It’s very clear that there are those who would do away with [unions] tonight.
He noted that “the right wing in this country has painted the word ‘union’ to be a very negative word.” Watch portions of his comments this morning:
As Rachel Maddow said last night, “Senate republicans are on an ideologically driven union-busting adventure,” “the American economy as a whole be darned.”
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
A condition of any future bailouts of anything should be a mandatory 30% pay cut for Senate members.
December 12th, 2008 at 11:55 am#1 good post but think it should be 50%….Blessings
December 12th, 2008 at 11:56 amOne of those GOP Senators leading the way in union-busting is one Jim Bunning. Who, BTW, will be at the Gibralter Trade-Center this weekend selling his autographs.
1st, he tells Detroit to drop dead, then breezes into the Detroit area hawking his signature. How’s that for chutzpah?
December 12th, 2008 at 11:59 amYou know, right now, people, I really and truly HATE Republicans.
They are destroying America. Nothing less than total destruction will satisfy them.
And I hate them for it.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:00 pmRegardless of where you stand on the bailout, there is some grim humor to this picture:
http://www.boingboing.net/2008/12/09/a-message-to-boing-b.html
December 12th, 2008 at 12:00 pm“Hourly wages for UAW workers at GM factories are about equal to those paid by Toyota Motor Corp. (TM) at its older U.S. factories, according to the companies. GM says the average UAW laborer makes $29.78 per hour, while Toyota says it pays about $30 per hour. But the unionized factories have far higher benefit costs.
GM says its total hourly labor costs are now $69, including wages, pensions and health care for active workers, plus the pension and health care costs of more than 432,000 retirees and spouses. Toyota says its total costs are around $48. The Japanese automaker has far fewer retirees and its pension and health care benefits are not as rich as those paid to UAW workers.”
December 12th, 2008 at 12:04 pmSure the Repubs are in the minority and are morons…but you know what? They’re the ones on the talkshows this morning touting (lying) their actions. Why aren’t the Dems out there in force? Don’t blame the Repubs for knowing how to get their point out to the public.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:07 pmLink to entire article:
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081212/D95106M80.html
Honestly, I just don’t know what to think on the whole bailout thing. Bush is apparently ready to tap the initial 700 billion bailout and spend it on the Big 3. Whenever Bush, Reid and Pelosi agree on a policy it is always a head scratcher.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:07 pmThe GOP is demanding that the UAW take pay & benefit cuts to bring them down to parity with workers for Japanese firms. I didn’t see anything in their speeches, however, suggesting that all the Big 3 executives and management have their salaries & benefits cut to the same level. American CEOs make about 300 times the salary that their employees do, while Japanese CEOs make about 10 times the workers’ salary.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:07 pmjb Says:
——————————————————————————–
A condition of any future bailouts of anything should be a mandatory 30% pay cut for Senate members.
If it were a perfect world: I would have them all being paid minimum wage, punch a time clock and, wear ill-fitting uncomfortable polyester uniforms and, answer all phone calls with “how may I help you most valued customer”.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:12 pmThe Big 3 CEO’s, riding the back of a whale they’ve been spearing to death for years.
I’m sorry for the UAW, but the 3 unions I’ve been a member of NEVER, EVER have these kinds of tumultuous catastrophes (well, not SAG at least, not to this level).
Everyone in the auto industry is sliding down a one-way slippery slope.
Until those at the top relinquish their ivory tower elitism, the whole industry deserves to implode.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:13 pmMy loathing for Republicans is as high as ever . . . and that is saying something. They need to be ground into extinction.
Practically, just who in the HELL do they think is going to vote for them? I mean as dumb as our country can be, there just aren’t enough Right Wing evangelical wackos to carry the day.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:13 pmgummitch Says:
The GOP is demanding that the UAW take pay & benefit cuts to bring them down to parity with workers for Japanese firms. I didn’t see anything in their speeches, however, suggesting that all the Big 3 executives and management have their salaries & benefits cut to the same level. American CEOs make about 300 times the salary that their employees do, while Japanese CEOs make about 10 times the workers’ salary.
Word to that. Though they have offered to work for a dollar next year, that is purely symbolic after they have raided the pantry for years in a row and likely have a real nice severance package already lined up.
Philosophically, I am against the government limiting how much a person can make – that should be the role of the Board and the Shareholders. The oversight on grotesque salaries coming from those sources just isn’t there though, and that for companies that are on the verge of bankruptcy. A very frustrating situation.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:18 pmRepubliscum hate American Workers, Toyota pays $30 an hour, UAW workers get $27, so why do Repukes hate American Workers?
Their corporate masters don’t want workers to have any say about their working conditions is what is going on. Dangerous conditions, too bad, long hours with no overtime, too bad, no health care, that’s your problem, no vacation pay, you don’t need a life.
Gawd I hate fcuking republiscum.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:18 pmLushInterior Says:
Oh my goodness……what to do, what to do? Looks like the dumbest President in the history of the world and a Republican to boot is the last chance hope for the U.A.W.
____________
As much as you think you’re hysterically funny and quite the card, Botch indeed has been a complete failure and total disaster for this country. No need to list all the non-accomplishments of the last 8 years, huh?
And as for the auto company bailout, perhaps even Chimpy and Darth are finally realizing how close this country’s economy is to complete collapse. But then, from the type of comments you’ve left here in the past, you’d prolly find that funny too. Yer such a winner.
Life is so pleasant when seen thru the bottom of a bottle, huh, Lushy?
December 12th, 2008 at 12:22 pmLushInterior
The problem is that the same people who are causing your loses on your 401K are still making calls……it will stop soon.
Although you are being sarcastic, history will show that democrats will correct the mistakes of the gop….
December 12th, 2008 at 12:24 pmPhilisophically, I am against huge corporations that make bad decisions coming to me for money to stay afloat too, so they have to take some conditions…..
December 12th, 2008 at 12:25 pmIt must really be something to call oneself a Republican today.
To willingly and wantonly take pride in a political agenda so bereft of tolerance and equal justice under law while actively destroying, piece-by-piece, this countries secular constitutional principles that gave strength and meaning to the once proud “American Dream”.
It must really be something to call oneself a Democrat today.
To willing and wantonly allow Republicans to get away with it.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:29 pmJust keep it up Republicans, and become the permanent minority party for the haters…
December 12th, 2008 at 12:30 pmDoes anyone know why Harry Reid voted NO!?
Nevada
Ensign (R) No; Reid (D) No.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hGwd1jlCNMafTX4H1T4CHfPGHGtAD950VMF85
December 12th, 2008 at 12:32 pmPersonally, I won’t urinate on any Republicans that are on fire.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:32 pmPhilosophically, I am against the government limiting how much a person can make – that should be the role of the Board and the Shareholders.
But the government can say that any compensation to a board member above a certain threshhold will be heavily taxed. (The threshhold could be twenty times the average hourly worker’s pay.) The company’s board could be free to pay themselves however much they wish, but they (individually and the corporation itself) would pay taxes on compensation above that threshhold. Shareholders could then decide if the taxes their company pays on excess salaries (instad of to the shareholders as dividends) warrants removing the board members (who really do live as though they are entitled to the lifestyles of the rich and famous.) If the board members want to pay themselves so much, they can justify it by raising the pay of the average worker. The higher the average pay is, the higher they can compensate themelves afterwards.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:33 pmIt’s gonna really piss me off if I can’t gets parts for my vette when (or if) I need them.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:33 pmLushInterior Says:
There are WAY to many Democrats driving Toyota cars and Honda cars if Democrats alone bought American GM, Ford and Chrysler products the union workers would still have their jobs and retirement no problem. WHATS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?
Yes, we stupidly purchase equipment that works well, requires little maintenance, and costs less when maintenance is needed. We’re so dumb!
December 12th, 2008 at 12:34 pmjb Says:
Personally, I won’t urinate on any Republicans that are on fire.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
Me? I’m happy to urinate on them whether they’re on fire or not. Just tell ‘em what they tell us when they do it, “It’s raining.”
December 12th, 2008 at 12:34 pmThis is an odd post. You open it with republicans saying that unions refusing wage cuts are the reason they wouldn’t pass the bailout. Nothing in the rest of the post suggests this wasn’t the case.
Not to put too fine of a point on it, but these companies are saying they need billions or they’re out of business. As of right now, they’re going to go out of business unless they meet the demands of Republicans.
If that’s the case, there is no quote worth publishing from the UAW rep that isn’t “Oh crap, really? Well I’d better complaining about Republicans to the media and just find out what they want and give it to them so the industry I represent continues to exist”.
What is the point of complaining about Republicans trying to bust unions by demanding they cut wage rates if the alternative is there is no union? If this doesn’t pass, there are no auto workers in the US and the UAW union guy now becomes as relevant as the Steam Engine Workers Union rep.
You don’t have to like this scenario, but either you are claiming ignorance of the concept of one party having another “over a barrel” or this post makes no sense.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:34 pmHow come the Congress isn’t taking steps to repeal their 2.8% COLA pay raise,that automatically starts 1 Jan 2009? If Congress doesn’t vote to decline the raise,it’s automatic?
December 12th, 2008 at 12:36 pmLushInterior Says:
There are WAY to many Democrats driving Toyota cars and Honda cars if Democrats alone bought American GM, Ford and Chrysler products the union workers would still have their jobs and retirement no problem.
_____________
‘Course, if American auto makers would actually, umm, “make” cars people WANTED to buy, perhaps Americans WOULD BUY cars made by GM, Ford, et al. Perhaps if the execs, and you, got yer collective heads outta yer Cheneys, and sobered up, you’d understand this.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:36 pmThe workers response;
I do not drive the train or even ring the bell,
December 12th, 2008 at 12:36 pmbut watch the damn thing jump the tracks,
and see who catches hell.
Fourteen Defining Characteristics of Fascism
#10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated. Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVVa1IvHdKc
December 12th, 2008 at 12:37 pmLush interior: There are WAY to(o) many Democrats driving Toyota cars and Honda cars if Democrats alone bought American GM, Ford and Chrysler products the union workers would still have their jobs and retirement no problem.
Only Democrats buy foreign cars? You are an idiot.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:38 pmDNFP Says:
The Big 3 CEO’s, riding the back of a whale they’ve been spearing to death for years.
I’m sorry for the UAW, but the 3 unions I’ve been a member of NEVER, EVER have these kinds of tumultuous catastrophes (well, not SAG at least, not to this level).
Everyone in the auto industry is sliding down a one-way slippery slope.
Until those at the top relinquish their ivory tower elitism, the whole industry deserves to implode.
I simply do not understand why you are so damn regressive on this issue.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:39 pmLushInterior Says:
WHATS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?
December 12th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
_________
We like cars that work?
Just a guess.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:42 pmIt’s not all republicans who are doing this, just the ones south of the mason-dixon line. Or where the foreign-owned car factories are prevalent.
Voinovich(R) of Ohio is for the car bailout. He’s up for re-election in 2010. Enough said.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:44 pmKlem Kiddilehopper Says:
How come the Congress isn’t taking steps to repeal their 2.8% COLA pay raise,that automatically starts 1 Jan 2009? If Congress doesn’t vote to decline the raise,it’s automatic?
December 12th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
And how is that pay raise not in violation of the 27th Amendment?
Speaking of the Constitution, like it or not, lowering the Sec of State’s pay to what it was when Sen Clinton first took office does not change the fact that the emoluments of the office were raised while she was in Congress. Therefore, she is constitutionally ineligible to become Sec of State. If the framers had wanted this tyoe of “fix” to be allowed, they would have clearly said so, by adding something like, “…unless such emoluments are first removed.” They didn’t, so it must not have been an acceptable solution for them.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:45 pmWhy should fat ass Republic Senators be able to dictate the wage of hard working Union members? All the while ignoring the hugely inflated pay of management? And their own fat pay and benefits?
December 12th, 2008 at 12:45 pmScuse me, Lushy – I drive a 2008 CHRYSLER PT Cruiser.
What do YOU drive, moron?
December 12th, 2008 at 12:45 pmLook at the heads spinning — vehemently anti-union, losing their power, throwing trash in the ring after they’ve lost the bout, Bush doing a number in the regulatory department on his way out.
Warning #2, trolls: If the auto companies fail, 3,000,000 jobs go with it, and we could spiral into a depression. And don’t think you won’t be affected. There are no smooth-talking CEOs around to protect you — they’ll be affected too.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:47 pmI saw a thing on the news yesterday talking about how great the Big 3 are doing in Europe where they are forced to produce fuel efficient, enviro-friendly cars or no one will buy them. Yet here, Toyota eats their lunch in that same market.
Clearly, something is seriously wrong in management. Seems to me firing them should be under discussion rather than curtailing their pay. I wonder if these guys see themselves as screw ups? Probably not, as the three private jet pr disaster demonstrates.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:47 pmisnt it funny, that when the ” regular joes” of the world they claim to love so much and share common cause with manage to get a job that makes a tiny bit more than other “regular joes,” republicans are right there ready to destroy and demonize them. while at the same time they’re strangely silent when it comes to the million dollar salaries and bonuses of the CEOs that destroyed wall street and the car companies with criminally bad management and caused this entire mess.
also remember every time the “environazis” tried to raise CAFE standards to force the car companies to make more efficient cars, republicans were right there screaming at the top of their lungs, siding with the car companies and their idiot management, crying about how it would make the companies uncompetitive and cause them huge financial losses, blah blah blah. so now that theyve helped sow and fertilize with their bs the seeds of the car companies’ destruction, theyre ready to let them all die and blame it on the group least responsible in an effort to score some ideological points. in other words, typical republicanism.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:47 pmWe have a strongly pro-union president coming into office and the wingnuts think this is their chance to dissolve unions. What idiots.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:50 pmIts not gonna happen. This just in from our local news channel here in Ann Arbor:
IMMEDIATELY upon notification of Senator Jim Bunning’s vote regarding his stance on the automotive industry, Jim Koester, President and Founder of Gibraltar Trade Center canceled the contract between Mr. Bunning and Gibraltar Trade Center for an autograph appearance that was scheduled Sunday, December 14th, 2008.
Mr. Koester said, “Being a business owner in Michigan for over 30 years, I simply cannot support anyone who, in my opinion, votes against the economic well being of our great state.” Mr. Koester went on to say, “The contract between us and Mr. Bunning was signed well in advance of the auto vote.”
December 12th, 2008 at 12:52 pmThat’s interesting, but really not relevant.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:53 pmUAW workers are currently scheduled to receive a reduction in wages from their current $29.78 to $0 per hour and the union reduced from its current membership to zero. If someone from a union or industry group is suggesting that their wages should go up, that person needs to be fired for clearly being shit at negotiating.
The Republic of Stupidity Says:
‘Course, if American auto makers would actually, umm, “make” cars people WANTED to buy…
….I ONLY buy American cars, obviously you haven’t driven an American car lately, they are MUCH better than you have been told.
My Vette, absolutely the BEST CAR IN AMERICA, my JEEP Liberty absolutely superb.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:58 pmIf that happens then the republicans have sealed their fate.
December 12th, 2008 at 1:02 pmMaybe it was the obscene layers of management, executive bonuses, ties to BIG OIL that brought these companies down. I am sure UAW would make meaning and reasonable concessions to make sure their companies are viable.
As usual the Repubs like the take the focus off of the real issues.
December 12th, 2008 at 1:05 pmSomeone explain to me why they want to sacrifice wages of millions people to benefit a corporation. Someone please explain that to me.
December 12th, 2008 at 1:06 pmBuckie Boy Says:
My Vette, absolutely the BEST CAR IN AMERICA, my JEEP Liberty absolutely superb.
__________
Then why, pray tell, do so many people NOT buy American? I rode in a late model Chevy rental recently, and boy, was that car annoying as all get out on so many levels.
Sorry… I DO NOT believe the current Corvette is the Best Car in America, but hey, I’ve never been a car person. I think the whole “automobile experience” is highly overrated. And certainly there is no status in auto ownership.
December 12th, 2008 at 1:09 pmProgressive Veteran Says:
Someone explain to me why they want to sacrifice wages of millions people to benefit a corporation.
___________
Silly you… don’tcha know corporations deserve the same human rights as humans?
December 12th, 2008 at 1:10 pmActually you could say the same for the membership of the UAW.
If the bailout fails they will be looking for other work.
If the bailout succeeds and they are not looking for other work, I’d have to ask why not.
Your industry has just survived via yet another public bailout after yet again attempting economic suicide. If these workers cannot be told to go away and seek skills to enable them to find work in another more viable field, who can?
At some point, somebody is going to suggest putting the coal-fired power generation industry out of business. How are these people’s jobs in any way more redundant than those of a US auto worker?
December 12th, 2008 at 1:12 pmPut the Republican senators who voted no to work in a bicycle factory.
December 12th, 2008 at 1:16 pmBuckie Boy Says:
….I ONLY buy American cars, obviously you haven’t driven an American car lately, they are MUCH better than you have been told.
See if you can find a list of used cars, based on reliability, that doesn’t have American cars somewhere well below #10 and which isn’t dominated by Japanese mfgs.
December 12th, 2008 at 1:18 pmI guess my question is How many blue collar salary cuts does it take to make the CEO’s salary again? And bonuses? Did they actually ever reduce CEO salaries to $1 like promised or was that just one CEO and a lot ‘o hot air, smoke and mirrors. Maybe I have missed something here but that does not diminish the rest of my comment!
Union busting for sure! Union caused problem, complete bull pucky! Rich CEO’s and executives with no forsight are the problem.
I heard someone else recently try to defend the CEO’s saying there is no way they could have forseen $150/bbl oil. I say bull. Oil is a finite and non-renewable resource. It is obvious to a two year old child that oil will run out and as a result prices will rise sharply. That is also very true for more demand than supply as well. Any simple minded arm chair economist knows that. Simple economic principles and common sense appear to escape the American car companies and their executives. Large Fuel inefficient cars have been out of style and regressive wasteful technology since the day cars were first made to use fossil fuels. It doesn’t take an MBA to figure that one out.
What type of intellect does it take to want to use up a non-renewable resource as fast as you can. If all you had was one thousand dollars and no more would you spend it as fast as you can. If so why exactly? Is it just because it’s easier to do that than suffer a little inconvenience. What a radical concept rationing and conservation is.
Where is the call for the rich SOB CEO’s to have reduced salaries and no bonuses. They aren’t worth much and between $100,00 and $200,000 sounds like a damn fine and very big salary to me! Besides expenses most Executives are way over paid and underperforming on the most basic of levels. I heard a lot of sabre rattling about executive salaries and bonuses but here they are again trying to blame the lowest folk on the totem pole, the average working poor citizen!
Sorry folks but your politicians, and their corporate concern trumps everything, are even bigger wastes of the skin they inhabite than ours up here.
December 12th, 2008 at 1:19 pmUAW could cut their pay to zero and it would not be enough to get the Companies through until January.
December 12th, 2008 at 1:20 pm‘We are 10% of the labor costs. If [the UAW] worked for nothing, it wouldn’t help [the auto industry] limp into January.’
December 12th, 2008 at 1:21 pm— Ron Gettelfinger,
United Auto Workers
We need cars that run on the blood of senators.
December 12th, 2008 at 1:22 pmKeltoi Says
December 12th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Philosophically, I am against the government limiting how much a person can make – that should be the role of the Board and the Shareholders. The oversight on grotesque salaries coming from those sources just isn’t there though, and that for companies that are on the verge of bankruptcy. A very frustrating situation.
_________________________________________________________
Agreed. I, too, am against the government limiting how much a person can make (if I was in favor of limits, I’d start with professional athletes and entertainers). And if we give the car companies a loan, we shouldn’t dictate to them how their payscale should operate or anything else having to do with running their business. We SHOULD, however, demand the company be put up as collateral on the loan. If they default on the loan, then the government will not only be dictating how the company will be run, they’ll be RUNNING the company.
I agree it’s a frustrating situation, and I believe that people on both sides of the ideological fence are angry at the auto companies. But the similarity tends to end there, as we get into disagreements about whether the “fault” lies with the unions or overpaid executives.
Here’s what I’d like to see in a perfect world:
1. Fix the health care system in our country so it’s not the responsibility of employers to pay for health care. This will save the company big bucks right there without screwing the employees.
2. Build better cars.
3. Reduce the salaries, bonuses, and golden parachutes of executives to more closely match our foreign competition.
4. Build more economical cars.
5. Whenever a new innovation comes out in the auto industry, our companies spend a fortune lobbying Congress into not making it mandatory. Meanwhile, the Japanese implement the changes and we buy their cars. This has happened with airbags, eye-level brake lights, hybrid electrics, etc. This must stop.
6. Build more fuel-efficient cars.
7. Quit telling the American public what they “must have” and start listening to what the American public really wants. Do we really want all those gas-guzzling SUVs out there? Some probably do, but I also know a number of people whose only reason for driving an SUV is because it’s the only way they feel safe out in traffic with a lot of SUVs.
8. Build better cars.
December 12th, 2008 at 1:22 pmWhat do the Secret service, Police, Parks Departments, Government officials at local state and national levels all drive around (or get driven around) in? American cars and SUVs. That’s a guaranteed market right there.
What do UPS, Fedex and DHL all use? American vans and trucks.
What do the majority of tradespeople (plumbers, electricians, installers, etc) use? American trucks and vans.
What do the US armed forces use? American trucks and vans.
What are the majority of rental fleets? American cars.
US auto has a reliable customer base in all these markets, but when individuals are given a choice, they pick what they think best suits their purposes.
And if someone’s greatest priority is to support US autoworkers by buying their products above every other consideration they cand and I know quite a few do.
And if they keep buying those products regardless of how inefficient, unreliable or poorly made they may be, then they are also maintain a crappy product, which gives license to the manufacturer to continue making a crappy, inefficient product.
AND as it is the auto-executives who benefit most from the business, and the executives who get the pay raise whilst the workers constantly make concessions as the crappy products they are forced to make by the management don’t sell as well in the face of foreign competition, all the ‘Buy American or Die’ consumer is actually doing is rewarding crappy managers by constantly buying a crappy product.
American cars HAVE improved a great deal in the last twenty-five years, but only as and when they faced up to the foreign competition ( e.g. the Ford Taurus which held off the Toyota Camry for several years as the best-selling mid-size in the US. But as soon as they caught-up in just one market segment, they then calculated that the competition was over, and they stopped developing their products in favor of creating a new market–the SUV—that was based on ancient engineering (body on frame construction, solid rear axles, bigger engines instead of more efficient engines and so on).
The last innovations of the US auto industry that have actually been brought to market have been the Dodge Caravan (which depended on a Japanese manufactured engine) and in persuading consumers that SUVs are ideal and super- safe vehicles–as long as your only accident was going to be hitting a smaller imported car, undoubtedly owned by an America-hating Democrat of course.
December 12th, 2008 at 1:22 pmAnother repug production/scheme. they don’t speak for 70%+ of us, they won’t get it. This is why their asses are shocked again and again by the truth.
repugs don’t have to make sense all they have to do is be the opposite of what is commonly right/good/sane.
nixon — enough said – thief…
raygun — Air Traffic Controllers – thief…
pappy — US cities – thief…
chimpy — Unions – thief…
Instead of having oversight for every dime, repugs chose to act as if they are looking out for our best interests. Sure they are. Where is the oversight concerning wall st?
December 12th, 2008 at 1:25 pmfrom what i’ve been hearing and seeing, it is time for unions to go. they were great back in the day because there was no regulations, safety, blah blah blah, but this isn’t back in the day anymore.
its sad when a union worker gets laid off and gets to sit at home and drink coffee while earning full pay and benefits.
not to mention nobody is buying cars right now, everyone’s stock is down. giving the autos a bailout is not going to solve anything. it does just kick the can down the road.
take care of healthcare first. that is the nations biggest money black hole. that is where the main problem is.
December 12th, 2008 at 1:28 pmKaneJeeves Says:
Sure the Repubs are in the minority and are morons…but you know what? They’re the ones on the talkshows this morning touting (lying) their actions. Why aren’t the Dems out there in force? Don’t blame the Repubs for knowing how to get their point out to the public.
Maybe you should change the channel.
December 12th, 2008 at 1:29 pmBy next week the Republicans and the right wing pundits will be complaining about how the Democrats have been in power for two years and caused all these problems.
December 12th, 2008 at 1:37 pmMary M.; thanks for the update. If that contract hadn’t been canceled, I can well imagine Bunning being pelted with rotten eggs, vegetables, and bricks-and rightly so.
December 12th, 2008 at 1:38 pmWhat an astonishing example of how little people know about what unions have done for working class Americans and continue to do.
Just how long do you think those regulations and safety protections would be in place without unions?
December 12th, 2008 at 1:42 pmUnions make workers, everybody safer.
This is another form of deregulation/no oversight.
December 12th, 2008 at 1:42 pmjb Says:
Put the Republican senators who voted no to work in a bicycle factory.
December 12th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
__________
Good luck with that one – I doubt many of them speak Mandarin.
Sure, they could try and get a bicycle factory job here, but I don’t know if Worksman Cycles is hiring.
December 12th, 2008 at 1:43 pmKeltoi Says:
Link to entire article:
http://apnews.myway.com/ article/ 20081212/ D95106M80.html
Honestly, I just don’t know what to think on the whole bailout thing. Bush is apparently ready to tap the initial 700 billion bailout and spend it on the Big 3. Whenever Bush, Reid and Pelosi agree on a policy it is always
what is chimpy doing with the 1B he got out of the pauly rub-down? Why isn’t this being reported?
December 12th, 2008 at 1:44 pmNo, the UAW will have sealed theirs.
I don’t think you’re comprehending what is going on here. This isn’t a case of the Republicans deciding Xmas would be a great time to put people out of work and the auto industry just drew the short straw. The auto industry is saying they are bankrupt and asking the government for assistance they have no entitlement to. Their workers know this.
Whatever the government says the auto industry needs to do to secure that bailout is the deal. You are not in a negotiation when you are begging for a rescue.
As of right now, all these workers are going to lose their jobs because they have retarded employers. They all know this. They also know that not only is the the government not to blame for this situation, they will in fact rescue their jobs under certain conditions.
That’s it. I don’t need to say what those certain conditions are, because either you accept them and have a job or you don’t and don’t. If someone negotiating on your behalf did anything other than agree to the terms of you keeping your job then that’s what they did.
December 12th, 2008 at 1:46 pmThe Auto Industry didn’t pay to play in the Bush/Cheney elections. AIG paid and got billions in return. The Citi Group who’s majority shareholders are the Saudis got an undisclosed amount of billions. The Church paid million and got billions back even an Office in the White House as well as bills passed in their favor. Now Bush/Cheney crime team will give some money if the Auto Industry gives shares to he Administration. Talks are in the works now and if the deal is made the Republicans would have taught a good lesson to the Ford Famiy and other Auto Companies. You have to paid millions to stay in business. The Mob wasn’t the only one who knew how to blackmail or solve those back room deals.
December 12th, 2008 at 1:51 pmBecause they have no actions to tout?
December 12th, 2008 at 1:52 pmThey have public opinion ratings that make Cheney look popular. There’s a reason for this.
The latest and most relevant public opinion poll was Nov. 4th. You seem to be missing something.
December 12th, 2008 at 1:55 pmLushInterior Says:
Lush you are nothing but an ignorant punk who stumbles in here and makes a fool out of yourself. Your babbling idiocy is just humiliating. Have you on shame fool? Are you so ignorant that you dont even GET how much you embarass yourself or so pathetic that even humiliation is attention so you soak it up? Grow up its just sad and pathetic reading your stupid posts. You are not clever you are not funny you are stupid and pathetic
December 12th, 2008 at 1:56 pmThey will go hand in hand. The republicans are risking a true depression for all of us over this very minor detail. It is only a union busting principal that they are pushing. The wages of union employees will not make or break these companies…….they are already broke and it was from mismanagment, not employee wages.
December 12th, 2008 at 1:59 pmYou mean like demanding competitive fuel and emissions standards so they could sell cars in both foreign and domestic markets that people want to buy?
Rescue the Titanic, again, and stop demanding that they cease deliberately crashing into icebergs every commentator everywhere was warning them about for decades. That’s an odd suggestion.
December 12th, 2008 at 2:00 pmThe Borgen Project has informative statistics on addressing global poverty.
$30 billion ends world hunger
$550 billion is the US Defense budget
This organization has the ability, resources, and policy-makers to suppress the threat of global poverty by enacting legislation here in the US, which is tied to the United Nation’s Millennium Development Goals. Please support organizations such as The Borgen Project so that we may rid the world of poverty.
December 12th, 2008 at 2:00 pmTannk says “blah, blah, blah, blah”
So, why the hell does Wall Street deserve to be bailed out with NO strings attached, again?
December 12th, 2008 at 2:01 pmHey Toaster, You’re right besides they probably couldn’t handle doing any real work. Thanks for the link. Now that’s an American Company.
December 12th, 2008 at 2:01 pmSorry, but the US entering severe, prolonged recession has nothing to do with the fate of the auto-industry. It just doesn’t. You could guarantee it runs forever or shut it down today, neither will effect the outcome. Your economic fate will be decided over the next couple of years outside of your borders.
I know, I just told you this. You’re still missing the point. The wages of union workers are either going to be $0 and the union is killed or more than $0 and the union will continue to exist.
Whatever the republicans are offering which gets the latter outcome is the deal. Call it union busting or a ham sandwich, that is still the deal. If you plead for a rescue, get offered one and somehow manage to negotiate yourself out of getting rescued, you’re an idiot who’s sealed your own fate.
December 12th, 2008 at 2:15 pmI guess to the GOP the Auto Bailout is for the corporations, not the people who work at the corporations. No surprise here.
December 12th, 2008 at 2:16 pmWhat are you, like 7 years old?
December 12th, 2008 at 2:18 pmIf someone offered to pay you to write a more childish, immature post, what could you come up with?
Well the only thing you’ve suggested I’m missing is the next poll, so I guess we’ll wait until then to find out if something that’s been far less popular than Bush for quite some time is now back in ice-cream territory.
December 12th, 2008 at 2:22 pmTank Says
December 12th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Rescue the Titanic, again, and stop demanding that they cease deliberately crashing into icebergs every commentator everywhere was warning them about for decades. That’s an odd suggestion.
____________________________________________________________
You missed my point, but that was probably my fault — I wasn’t very clear.
In the case of a genuine LOAN, the auto industry should be able to run their companies they way they see fit — BUT if they default on the loan, the collateral (which would be the company) would go to the lender (in this case, the government). This might be incentive to run the company properly.
In the case of a BAILOUT (or “GRANT”, or “GIFT”, or “MONEY YOU DON’T HAVE TO PAY BACK”), the entity doing the giving (in this case, the government) certainly has the right to establish some conditions. I never meant to imply that shouldn’t be the case.
Personally, I like Michael Moore’s suggestion of just buying the companies outright. It would cost less, and it would take the greedhead element out of the picture. And then re-privatize them when they are firmly back on their feet.
December 12th, 2008 at 2:23 pmActually Tank, your own objectivity is no better and that is Ho’s point. No matter what anyone says, you imply that you and only you have the truth and everyone else is stupid……
I think Ho is correct on this and really your own posts are just as childish as Ho’s which is his point.
You didn’t even address the last part of his post. Why? I think we know.
December 12th, 2008 at 2:23 pmWhat, far less popular than bush…..really? Seriously?
This post of yours makes Uncle Ho’s point perfectly. Try to accept someone else’s point of view for a change, you don’t know everything, thank god.
December 12th, 2008 at 2:26 pmTank;
December 12th, 2008 at 2:32 pmPerhaps I did not make my point clear, while you make demands of the UAW, where are your demands of sacrifice for the CEOs, corporate execs and workers of Wall Street and the banks?
LushInterior Says:
Our world has been upside down since 2000. That shows signs of changing though…..how’s life as a right wing troll these days? Fulfilling being the fly in the ointment?
December 12th, 2008 at 2:35 pmLushInterior Says:
You ignorant lying piece of garbage go back to your bridge. The adults are tired of your snivelling stupidity. You are an ignorant troll without the self respect to be ashamed of your ignorance and self humiliation. Do the world a favor and disappear.
December 12th, 2008 at 2:44 pmFred Says: Just how long do you think those regulations and safety protections would be in place without unions?
i guess about as long as they did in other industries that don’t have unions that need bailing out too.
December 12th, 2008 at 2:46 pmWhatever the republicans are offering which gets the latter outcome is the deal. Call it union busting or a ham sandwich, that is still the deal. If you plead for a rescue, get offered one and somehow manage to negotiate yourself out of getting rescued, you’re an idiot who’s sealed your own fate.
No the Republicans are hiding from responsibility once again-whatever concessions the Union offered wouldn’t have made a difference here because the R’s know that W will pony up the cash out of the TARP funds to keep the Big Three at least solvent through Jan. 20 and then they can blame the ‘bailout’ deal on Bush (who they’ve thrown under the bus anyway) Obama and the Demoratic Congress… they also think they see a chance to get rid of unions altogether but by refusing to compromise early they are helping to assure that the USA is going to get single-payer healthcare and CEO salary caps… that’s the deal.
December 12th, 2008 at 2:49 pmYou don’t seem to understand that the non-union wages are based on the union wages. If the union disappears, all wages go down.
How do you think non-union companies compete with union companies……they pay close to but a little less than union companies…..it’s just a fact.
December 12th, 2008 at 2:53 pmit’s just a fact.
That scares the shit out of GOP and their trolls.
December 12th, 2008 at 2:55 pmThe Replicans are determined to destroy the country. I assume so they can remake it in their image, but how everyone is supposed to make themselves rich white males is beyond me.
December 12th, 2008 at 2:59 pmFred Says:
How do you think non-union companies compete with union companies……they pay close to but a little less than union companies…..it’s just a fact.
______________
Kinda… amazing, innit? Once everyone in this country is reduced to KMart level of wages, who’s ever going to buy a new car, a washing machine, a computer… anything above the level of the junk that, well, KMart specializes in selling?
Coulda sworn trickle-down economics had been debunked for the nonsense that it was. Didn’t Botch’s own father call it voodoo economics? All NAFTA’s really done is depressed wages across all borders. The greedy stooges that sit on corporate boards might get raging chubbies from seeing fractions of pennies dancing around on their companies’ balance sheets, but it ain’t been so good for the rest of us, huh?
December 12th, 2008 at 3:31 pmThe workers at Toyota and all the other foreign car companies in the South should join the UAW Union.
December 12th, 2008 at 5:26 pmSo the Failed NON UNION Wall Street gets no questions asked bail out to continue extreme salaries and bonus. Not to mention buying the private jets from the auto makers.
$350 billion and more for Wall Street and to no avail.
The auto makers ask for a $30 billion LOAN and this is unacceptable because of UNIONS?
Does anyone consider the Wall Street bailout was given that the wealthy that invested could get their money back.
December 12th, 2008 at 7:15 pmMaybe its time for the blue states to stop bailing out those red states – http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2006/11/wolcott200611
December 12th, 2008 at 8:22 pmi learned this earlier, on rachel i think…
want to get it down before i forget… again…
that the union agreed to the wage cuts provided the auto suits would agree to cuts and oversight of their salaries…
nope. can’t do that.
but blame the union for not coming up with “a date” instead.
December 13th, 2008 at 2:16 amBehind the smoke and mirrors and lies was this:
Pay Raise For Judges Tucked Into Auto Bailout Plan
Yes no one said a thing about this little ticket. Like G-Rod Law Makers are still playing old school politics as the American people suffer. One would think the Senators of Ohio/Michigan would fight for their voters but they decided to go for the kick back money. Bush needs a legacy so he’ll ride in on his white horse and save the day with our money. Even with two more Banks closing one in Texas and one in Georgia that brings the total to 25. Where’s a President when you need one?
December 13th, 2008 at 3:08 amanother thing i heard, from ed schultz… he wondered if maybe bush had told the “plantation caucus”, ‘ok – you guys do your thing, vote how you think you should for your folks, for your re-election, i’ll get it covered with the tarp funds.’
in other words, a set up… more politics of manipulation…
or something like that…
and, a caller to randi had a most logical scenario… that the righties were planning on the economic collapse, even directing it – however, it all fell apart too soon…
it was supposed to happen after january… “the obama depression”…
sounds perfectly plausible to me…
December 13th, 2008 at 11:48 amIt’s so funny, because in 4 years the Republican Party will be stronger than ever. You are mistaken; the Republicans aren’t destroying the US….they’re destroying the North-East. That bastion of liberal hell. Rather, they’re letting it die. California, also a liberal hell, is also sinking faster than the tide is rising. The Republicans are just letting it happen.
The South is least effected by the recession, so is most of the West, we’re doing just fine.
As the Democrats take the reigns of a sinking ship (Liberal North-East) and find themselves inable to save it with Federal Funds…as it sinks.
So does the Democratic Party.
I’m pretty sure all things considered Obama will be the last significant Democratic President; the North East is going to become a regional partisan if any sort of coherent political entity period.
December 13th, 2008 at 6:02 pmOh ID, do you even have half a brain?
The liberal bastion make up approximately 60+ % of the populace. The restoogikkkans are painting themselves into a corner it and it couldn’t happen to a more stupid bunch of cunts. Good riddance to extremely bad rubbish.
Here is the answer Tank, Id, and all the other hangerons in the Repukkkikan nightmare. Obama will come in and give a whopping $5 Billion LOAN to GM, in exchange for sale of the company TO THE WORKERS. This will pay off the scumsucking investors (of which there is only about 3 billion worth) and leave 2 Bill to retool and start producing the car of the future. ALong with massive gov support research (just like they do in those SC and Tenn BMW and Toyota plants) and THEN we will see the south DIE like it should have been. BURNED TO THE GROUND all the way to the ATLANTIC.
You pussies have been whining since Sherman kicked your ass, and you won’t stop until we totally obliterate the OLD SOUTH.
Have fun REPUKKKIGAN dickheads, keep warm in politcal Siberia with Palin. Yeah wrap your hopes around that piece of work.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
December 13th, 2008 at 7:48 pmI want the GOP to ask the oil industry which rolled in money the past few years to negotiate in good faith a tax on their profits to benefit the ailing economy.
December 14th, 2008 at 10:56 pmThis is the face of the GOP, anti American worker, anti American industry; they are defending the foreign auto industries interests.
Homosexuality NOT hardwired!!
I know this is off the subject but ……. Breaking News…….
April 4, 2007 – Dr. Francis S. Collins, one of the world’s leading scientists who works at the cutting edge of DNA, concluded that “there is an inescapable component of heritability to many human behavioral traits. For virtually none of them is heredity ever close to predictive.”
Regarding the contributions of genetics to areas such as homosexuality, Dr. Collins concluded, “Yes, we have all been dealt a particular set of cards, and the cards will eventually be revealed. But how we play the hand is up to us.”
Why doesn’t Jon Stewart know this?
December 15th, 2008 at 1:05 amUgh why do you idiots always say “tax the Oil industry”.
The Oil Industry is more highly taxed than ANYONE!
The Oil industry on average has only 9% profit margin. That’s worse than a McDonalds!
You fools.
December 15th, 2008 at 5:38 amI wonder if any of you Prius drivers out there realize that it takes 8 gallons of oil to manufacture a car tire… do you realize that plastics are made from oil?? If you really want to be green, throw out everything that you own made from plastic.
December 16th, 2008 at 9:27 pmAny liberal economists out there that can prove to me how it makes economic sense to pay $5000 more for a hybrid than a regular vehicle when gas is $1.60/gal ?
December 16th, 2008 at 9:29 pm