Shoe-throwing Iraqi journalist ‘beaten in custody.’
By on Dec 16th, 2008 at 9:52 am
Shoe-throwing Iraqi journalist ‘beaten in custody.’
Muntader al-Zaidi, the now-infamous shoe-hurling Iraqi journalist, has reportedly been “beaten in custody,” according to the BBC. Al-Zaidi’s brother reports that the journalist is suffering from a broken hand, broken ribs, and internal bleeding. Yesterday, TV al-Sharqiya in Iraq reported that the al-Zaidi had “signs of tortures on his thighs.” Meanwhile, thousands of Iraqis have taken to streets on Tuesday for second day to demand al-Zaidi’s release.
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Yay, we exported democracy and now Iraq is a free, fair, and open society! Heckuva job, Bushie!
December 16th, 2008 at 10:02 amWell, it sure is a good thing we overthrew Saddam, huh? I mean, at least Muntadhar az-Zaidi can take comfort knowing that he’s being tortured under a brutal, despotic democracy rather than a brutal, despotic dictatorship.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:03 amBush fails to see that throwing one’s shoe is equivalent to throwing a bag of dogsh!t.
As for the Iraqi journalist – I hope that the outcry from the people will secure his release – after all, Bush has declared Iraq to be a democracy, with free speech and all, right?
December 16th, 2008 at 10:08 amWait a goshdarn minute here! I thought that we were supposed to celebrate the fact that the reason al-Zaidi could throw his shoe at Bush was because of Bush?
Heckuva job Chimp. Maybe 4,000 soldiers and $3 trillion and the honor of our country was pissed away in Iraq. Ya think?
That’s perfect hussein toasterhead, well said.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:08 amMuntader al-Zaidi,… has reportedly been “beaten in custody,”
– - I beg your pardon TP, but what you meant to say was, “extreme interrogation while detained.”
December 16th, 2008 at 10:09 amhe was beaten when taken down in that room… you could hear it!
December 16th, 2008 at 10:10 ami read an AP story that said there was a trail of blood when he was dragged from the room.
Well, supposedly we can not condone attacks on any country’s ‘leader’ but we could mitigate the punishment by calling for a Libby, you know, a presidential pardon; or a Congressinal pardon if that can be available – then demanding that Iraq free the great journalist at the U.S’s request.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:11 amI wonder if Condi and Donny and Dickie will go to Iraq again to supervise the torture/interrogation.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:12 amM. al-Zaidi deserves the Silver Star for his courage. If only those shoes had been hand grenades. Sigh.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:13 amPlease ThinkProgress help this poor man! He is a hero to the American haters all across this horrible despicable country.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:14 amUncle Ho Says:
M. al-Zaidi deserves the Silver Star for his courage. If only those shoes had been hand grenades. Sigh.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:13 am
_______
No. Bush deserves to be tried and punished, not martyred.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:15 amWell, we all now know that all Bush press conferences will be attended by shoeless reporters.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:18 amSo ICEMAN comes out in support of torture. Surprised anyone?
Eat shit and die little guy.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:19 amWell, seeing as how this is the closest Bush will get to any type of punishment for all his many crimes it’s hard to get too worked up about the shoe incident.
Winter Cupcake aka Frosty Cupcake
December 16th, 2008 at 10:19 amICEMAN Says:
Please ThinkProgress help this poor man! He is a hero to the American haters all across this horrible despicable country.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:14 am
__________
That’s a very good idea, sport! We should be supporting The International Federation of Journalists and Reporters Without Borders in their efforts to free not just az-Zaidi, but all journalists who are being illegally detained and kidnapped in Iraq.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:20 amICEMAN,
December 16th, 2008 at 10:20 amYou seem to be suffering under the delusion that George W. Bush is America. This psychosis is common amongst the 23% Bush worshipping deadenders. Unfortunately, the condition seems to be incurable, as events of the past 8 years have had no discernable effect on your delerium.
Well, there you go. This is what happens when the people you have oppressed follow your example.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:20 amShoe-throwing Iraqi journalist ‘beaten in custody.’»
– - I was wondering how Bush could make his legacy even more toxic in the few weeks left to him. Some thought it impossible in the middle of two failed wars, $10 trillion in debt; $32 trillion in new entitlement liabilties, and a second Great Depression. But we are always misunderestimating him.
But even the Bush-Cheney thugs deserve these charges be proved before we hang them in effigy.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:20 am“a large trail of blood”
December 16th, 2008 at 10:20 amSeveral people descended on the man immediately after, wrestling him to the ground, and it took a minute or two for security agents to clear the crowd and start hauling him out. As they dragged him off, he was moaning and screaming as if in pain. Later, a large blood trail could be seen on the carpet where he was dragged out of the room.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j057jBReERcsF-FcZRSWe0h1gaXQD9539G2O0
ICEMAN Says
December 16th, 2008 at 10:14 am
Please ThinkProgress help this poor man! He is a hero to the American haters all across this horrible despicable country.
____________________________________________________________
Do you have an intelligent point to make? Or are you here merely to take a dump and move on?
December 16th, 2008 at 10:21 amCome here iceman, I’ve got a size 10 that will fit nicely where the sun don’t shine.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:25 amFREE MUNTAZER AL-ZAIDI NOW! HE IS A HERO FOR THROWING HIS SHOES AT THE IMBECIL-IN-CHIEF! HE IS A HERO FOR THROWING HIS SHOES AT THE WAR CRIMINAL! HANDCUFF, FROGMARCH, PROSSECUTE. EXECUTE BUSH/CHENNEY! HAGUE 2009!
December 16th, 2008 at 10:27 amWhat a disgrace. The man is a worldwide hero. They need to let him go.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:27 ammisshusseinmolly Says: Or are you here merely to take a dump and move on?
Need you ask?
December 16th, 2008 at 10:28 amI think ICEMAN still thinks he can get ‘points’ from the McCain campaign.
He should have enough for his ‘McCain Aces’ propeller-Beanie annny…dayyy…now.
Wrong 1: Bush’s foreign policy in Iraq
Wrong 2: this journalist’s act of violence
Wrong 3: U.S. backed government beating a man in custody
Three wrongs don’t make a right.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:28 amOf the three, however, the journalist’s actions are the least objectionable, by far, and at least have a redeeming quality as an act of civil disobedience. I wish he had just raised his shoes toward Bush. Bush would not have gotten the insult, but then he does not get it this way either. At least with a non-violent protest there would be less room for idiots (the “icemen”) to find fault. Then, again, the idiots do not need any facts.
Bush – surprise! – blew a golden opportunity to demonstrate true American compassion – and set a great example – by asking Maliki to simply release the man, adding he understood the man’s frustration and then MEETING him (privately).
That really would have made him (Bush) and America look magnanimous, while demonstrating true leadership.
Which is why there’s no way in hell he would have done it.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:28 ammisshusseinmolly Says:
Do you have an intelligent point to make? Or are you here merely to take a dump and move on?
December 16th, 2008 at 10:21 am
__________
Do the trolls ever have an intelligent point to make?
It is quite interesting, however, watching them backpedal from their “at least the reporter was free to throw his shoes in protest cause we brought freedom to Iraq” meme now that we’re seeing how brutally az-Zaidi is being treated.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:29 amIf the shoe fits; throw it!
December 16th, 2008 at 10:31 amNothing has changed since Sadamn Hussein. Retribution is still at the top of the list. The bush experiment with war has gotten no one anywhere. There is nothing to show for it but total failure!
December 16th, 2008 at 10:33 amIf retribution is the way, hold Bush for his diservice to all mankind. Throw him in jail forever.
katy Says:
“a large trail of blood”
If you watch the footage (pun intended), it appears to be the Secret Service goons enjoying playing “dog pile” on the journalist. No big surprise there.
Iceman, you are an idiot. George Bush is NOT America. As a matter of personal opinion, he is the most anti-American President in US History. He has personally overseen more damage to America than Osama Bin Forgotten could have dreamt of. Go Cheney yourself fool!
December 16th, 2008 at 10:34 amIt seems that people seldom hang around to argue their position after advocating torture.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:37 amI saw a clip on ummm probably NBC last night. I noted they stopped the videotape where security had al-Zaidi on the ground, at which point the audio was clearly of a man getting hurt by being piled-on, but not remarkable ( basically ow! ow! ow! as one would expect).
But I am remind of ‘Don’t Taser Me Bro’-guy and other incidents of protest in the US where many US TV outlets would show the ‘take-away’ in their reports, the protester being hustled out. Given that this oinovlved Bush and therefore was ‘Big News’ I;m left wondering why the news editors halted the tape at the initial takedown?
December 16th, 2008 at 10:39 amProbably there’s something on youtube by now that runs longer–guess I’ll have a look see for myself.
shoeless Says:
It seems that people seldom hang around to argue their position after advocating torture.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:37 am
__________
Really? Cause Dick Cheney’s still in office, far as I know.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:39 amCheney is the exception that proves the rule.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:42 amshoeless Says:
Cheney is the exception that proves the rule.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:42 am
_________
Ah, okay. Fair enough! :)
December 16th, 2008 at 10:43 amIceman; We don’t hate America, in fact, indeed, we LOVE our country. We just hate what Bush-Hitler and his cronies have done, hijacking our democracy.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:48 amshoeless, toaster…
Whilst Cheney may be the exception that proves the rule, his rule has also been exceptional based on exceptions of proof, as a rule.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:50 amMuntader al-Zaidi put an exquisite exlamation point of the complete failure I call GW Botch and his so-called legacy.
I hope Muntader al-Zaidi gets a book deal soon. He can then tell the world about the complete destruction of a soveriegn nation by a criminal, fascist, RePugniScum administration.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:52 amI tend to doubt the truth in these claims. I think it’s just something to whip up anti-American hysteria again. Either that, or the officials in this case are very, very stupid. He became nearly a folk hero from the moment the shoe left his hands, why make him a martyr as well? Without beating him, he might become just a nuisance and a footnote to end Bush’s term.
Then again, we are dealing with the Bush administration, and they really hate looking weak when dealing with people who disagree with them. I still don’t think we’d be that stupid to beat up this guy, but you never know. I still really doubt this guy’s account.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:54 amdixie blood Says: I hope Muntader al-Zaidi gets a book deal soon.
Actually that would be interesting without the shoe-throwing ‘hook’.(Did you ever read the ‘Baghdad Burning’ blog?_.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:56 ambspence11 Says: I still don’t think we’d be that stupid to beat up this guy, but you never know. I still really doubt this guy’s account.
I do agree that some rational skepticism is warranted at the moment. But you have to admit that the claims of being beaten- up are not, on their face, implausible either, and given the record of the past 5-6 years if there is a benefit of the dobut to be afforded one side or the other, the record suggest to me that al-Zaidi’s claims at this juncture are likely to be the more truthful.
December 16th, 2008 at 11:06 amBut in this particular circumstance, yes we should wait and see what evidence comes forth–assuming that evidence is allowed to come forth of course.
This incident seems to epitomize his whole presidency. With his incredibly ignorant lack of understanding and lack of effort to understand, the insult literally flies over his head. What should have been a minor event turns into an international catastrophe, highlighting a gross lack of moral values and lack of concern for other’s well-being.
He’s such a jack-ass he doesn’t even know he’s been insulted and he doesn’t have the compassion to feel bad about it in any way.
December 16th, 2008 at 11:06 ambspence11 Says:
I tend to doubt the truth in these claims. I think it’s just something to whip up anti-American hysteria again.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:54 am
__________
Oh, right, good point – that was probably just a trail of fake blood spotted on the floor by numerous reporters who were at the press conference.
Or maybe ketchup – that’s it. Az-Zaidi probably had a bunch of ketchup packets in his pocket, just to stir up anti-American hysteria.
That makes total sense. Yup.
December 16th, 2008 at 11:07 amMuntader al-Zaidi, the now-infamous shoe-hurling Iraqi journalist is just your regular, everyday Iraqi.
Sort of like a “Shoeless Joe the Plumber.”
December 16th, 2008 at 11:11 amOk Bush, here is a chance to show the quality of the shining light of democracy we have brought to Iraq.
A reporter has expressed a political view (albeit an extreme insult in the presence of the head of Iraq) in a democracy which the USA has put in place. How well is it working ?
December 16th, 2008 at 11:16 amThat poor, brave man. It was truly foolish thing to do, but I admire the courage it took for him to do what he did.
He is most certainly paying the price now.
December 16th, 2008 at 11:16 amhussein toasterhead Says:
That’s a very good idea, sport! We should be supporting The International Federation of Journalists and Reporters Without Borders in their efforts to free not just az-Zaidi, but all journalists who are being illegally detained and kidnapped in Iraq.
Hold on, Toasterhead – are you suggesting this man is being held illegally? I am sure you are not, but your phrasing makes it seem so.
As to his injuries, he was moaning “my hand” from the bottom of the pile before he was dragged off – by Iraqi security, not the Secret Servive. He got the crap kicked out of him, I don’t doubt that, but to say he is being “tortured in custody” is not something we can substantiate.
December 16th, 2008 at 11:22 amWait until Barbara Bush gets her claws on him.
December 16th, 2008 at 11:22 amLeftside Annie Says:
That poor, brave man. It was truly foolish thing to do, but I admire the courage it took for him to do what he did.
He is most certainly paying the price now.
Annie, for once we are in total agreement. Very brave, very foolish, I hope all he gets is six months or so. I am currently working in a prison, I suspect he will be treated like royalty there; his cred will be huge. Look to see him run for Parliament when he gets out.
December 16th, 2008 at 11:23 amThe corporate media wants to spin him as “infamous” rather than famous. The main thing to remember about this is Bush is a war criminal, a vicious hateful man who attacked a country and caused untold suffering for personal gain. Bush must be brought to trial and punished. Anyone who does not understand this must be made to understand it.
December 16th, 2008 at 11:27 amKeltoi at Night Says:
He got the crap kicked out of him, I don’t doubt that, but to say he is being “tortured in custody” is not something we can substantiate.
December 16th, 2008 at 11:22 am
__________
When someone has “the crap kicked out of him” while being detained or in detention by government agents, that’s state-sponsored torture.
I don’t believe his detention is illegal in itself, but if he continues to be held indefinitely without access to legal counsel and if he continues to face physical abuse at the hands of the security forces detaining him, then his detention is indeed illegal under international law.
Throwing a shoe at someone is at worst felony assault – az-Zaidi should have the option to post a reasonabe bail amount and be released.
December 16th, 2008 at 11:29 amKeltoi at Night Says:
“but to say he is being “tortured in custody” is not something we can substantiate.”
________
True… I mean, it’s not like he’s being held by the US, or anything like that, huh?
December 16th, 2008 at 11:36 am——————————————————————————–
hussein toasterhead Says:
Keltoi at Night Says:
He got the crap kicked out of him, I don’t doubt that, but to say he is being “tortured in custody” is not something we can substantiate.
When someone has “the crap kicked out of him” while being detained or in detention by government agents, that’s state-sponsored torture.
In that case, a solid percentage of all arrests made in the US are state sponsored torture. We throw that word around a bit blithley if we say getting beat down in the moments after assaulting a head of state qualifies.
I don’t believe his detention is illegal in itself, but if he continues to be held indefinitely without access to legal counsel and if he continues to face physical abuse at the hands of the security forces detaining him, then his detention is indeed illegal under international law.
All legal systems are different. We in the US have one of the shortest windows for being charged. I fully assume this guy will be charged and tried, unless the politics of it demand his release.
Throwing a shoe at someone is at worst felony assault – az-Zaidi should have the option to post a reasonabe bail amount and be released.
And he may well, unless he is deemed a flight risk, which I think it is pretty obvious he is.
I understand the man’s anger, I do. But civil disobedience like this carries a price tag. Felony assault is a felony – he should be punished, but again, I think six months would be about right.
December 16th, 2008 at 11:43 amBush: We Don’t Torture.
Yah, right.
December 16th, 2008 at 11:47 amKeltoi at Night Says:
He got the crap kicked out of him, I don’t doubt that, but to say he is being “tortured in custody” is not something we can substantiate.
Haven’t yet opened the blinds?
He was recorded, screaming in the hallway. He must have been faking for the media, eh?
December 16th, 2008 at 11:55 amKeltoi at Night Says:
In that case, a solid percentage of all arrests made in the US are state sponsored torture. We throw that word around a bit blithley if we say getting beat down in the moments after assaulting a head of state qualifies.
December 16th, 2008 at 11:43 am
___________
Well, I’m not sure where the line is drawn exactly between police brutality and torture, but I wouldn’t doubt that a solid percentage of people arrested in the United States are subjected to some form of treatment that would qualify as torture according to international standards.
And a bit of roughing-up while a resisting suspect is being subdued is one thing. Beating a suspect up for several minutes after he’s already been subdued, as can be heard clearly in the video of this incident, is quite another.
December 16th, 2008 at 11:58 amDo you have someone who looks out for you to keep people from taking advantage of your naivity.
December 16th, 2008 at 12:15 pmshoeless Says:
——————————————————————————–
Keltoi at Night Says:
——————————————————————————–
…to say he is being “tortured in custody” is not something we can substantiate.
Do you have someone who looks out for you to keep people from taking advantage of your naivity.
Do you ever not assume the absolute worst about how the US and its allies conduct themselves?
BTW, your screen name takes on a whole new panache thanks to al-Zeidi, eh?
December 16th, 2008 at 12:25 pmThere’s an old saying in Tennessee – I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee – that says, fool me once, shame on – shame on you. Fool me – you can’t get fooled again.
December 16th, 2008 at 12:39 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
Do you ever not assume the absolute worst about how the US and its allies conduct themselves?
December 16th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
__________
Nope, and they’ve never given me any reason to doubt this.
December 16th, 2008 at 12:39 pmhussein toasterhead Says:
Keltoi at Night Says:
Do you ever not assume the absolute worst about how the US and its allies conduct themselves?
Nope, and they’ve never given me any reason to doubt this.
It probably feels good to type this, Toasterhead, but I doubt even you think it fair.
Troll though I am, you know I am not a flaming Bush apologist, and yes, we screw up and do bad things at times. But I often get the sense that “you” (plural you here applied to the Left) think we are incapable of ever doing anything good, especially if it is Republicans in charge.
Were this to happen a year from now and it was Obama being attacked, would you assume the man was being tortured? I know he is in Iraqi custody, but would you be so quick to assume the worst all the same?
How about protestors and hecklers who get arrested in Iran? Not the shoe throwing type, just the insult calling type. Do you assume they are being tortured? NOTE: This is not an attempt to draw a moral equivalence between us and Iran. What I am getting at is the attitude of “you” vis-a-vis your own country and those who are enemies of your country.
I try to assume nothing. He may be getting tortured – he may not. But the violence done to him during his apprehension is not torture. It strips the word of its meaning to say otherwise.
December 16th, 2008 at 12:55 pmRalph is so wrong about you. You defend the criminalization of making an arrest. Funny, Sirhan Sirhan didn’t wind up with broken bones, nor did Lee Harvey Oswald.
Now days cops the tv show glorifies brutality of police making arrests every day and people like you think it is ok.
If this is the kind of America you want then you will have to leave.
Only patriots question violent acts on their behalf and only factists defend it.
December 16th, 2008 at 1:04 pmPlease don’t lump me in with your murderous, bloodthirsty leaders. They have proven time after time that they (Republican leaders) are incapable of doing anything good.
You cannot defend them. In order to remain a Republican, you must pretend that you don’t know whether they are incapable of doing anything good.
December 16th, 2008 at 1:07 pmFirst, if you really had any sense you wouldn’t make such ignorant statements.
Second, We are capable of doing many good things, Democrats have, history bears it out. Please name one good thing a republican has done.
Republicans are destructive by nature….
December 16th, 2008 at 1:09 pmYou assume plenty. Just a minute ago you assumed that liberals did not think America could do anything good so blow it out your phony ass.
If you think this kind of brutality doesn’t “strip the word of it’s meaning” then you are just here to stir shit or you are a fool.
December 16th, 2008 at 1:14 pmKeltoi the apologist:
Were this to happen a year from now and it was Obama being attacked, would you assume the man was being tortured? I know he is in Iraqi custody, but would you be so quick to assume the worst all the same?
That’s the weakest rationale yet. And by the way, the BBC confirms:
The brother of the Iraqi journalist who threw his shoes at US President George W Bush has said that the reporter has been beaten in custody.
Muntadar al-Zaidi has allegedly suffered a broken arm, broken ribs and internal bleeding, his older brother, Dargham, told the BBC.
December 16th, 2008 at 2:58 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
It probably feels good to type this, Toasterhead, but I doubt even you think it fair.
It may not be fair, but it’s true.
Troll though I am, you know I am not a flaming Bush apologist, and yes, we screw up and do bad things at times. But I often get the sense that “you” (plural you here applied to the Left) think we are incapable of ever doing anything good, especially if it is Republicans in charge.
I find that there is little if anything the United States does in the international arena that isn’t either morally reprehensible, appallingly hypocritical, or glaringly self-serving. Even things as allegedly “nice” as providing food aid to famine-stricken Africans is far less than generous when you look at the details.
Were this to happen a year from now and it was Obama being attacked, would you assume the man was being tortured? I know he is in Iraqi custody, but would you be so quick to assume the worst all the same?
I’d assume that if British and American and Iraqi media are all reporting that the man who threw shoes at Obama was being tortured, that it was most likely the truth.
How about protestors and hecklers who get arrested in Iran? Not the shoe throwing type, just the insult calling type. Do you assume they are being tortured? NOTE: This is not an attempt to draw a moral equivalence between us and Iran. What I am getting at is the attitude of “you” vis-a-vis your own country and those who are enemies of your country.
In Iran? Yes, I do believe torture happens in Iranian prisons all the time, based on numberous reports by HRW and Amnesty. And I’m well aware that free speech is subject to quite a lot of censorship in Iran, particularly where government criticism and religious freedom are concerned. These types of human rights violations are epidemic in many countries, including quite a few we consider allies.
I try to assume nothing. He may be getting tortured – he may not. But the violence done to him during his apprehension is not torture. It strips the word of its meaning to say otherwise.
December 16th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
Perhaps not what was done during his immediate apprehension, but any beatings that took place after he was subdued were most certainly torture.
December 16th, 2008 at 3:10 pmICEMAN Says:
Look PUNK, Bush is not America. Hating Bush is NOT hating America.
December 16th, 2008 at 5:18 pmIn other news, shoeless now has the coolest username here. Congrats.
December 16th, 2008 at 6:57 pmSure, in Saudi Arabia or UAE(Dubai). Anywhere else in the Middle East, he would have got a parade.
December 16th, 2008 at 9:22 pmTracy is a moron. Tracy thinks our ALLIES like Saudi Arabia would be any less brutal to someone who threw a shoe at a visiting dignitary. Hey Trac, care to tell us what you think the government of Saudi Arabia does to people who insult the monarchy or its guests?
December 17th, 2008 at 12:57 am>Do you ever not assume the absolute worst
>about how the US and its allies conduct
>themselves?
You mean our allies like Saddam circa 1985, Noriega, Pinochet, the SHah of Iran, Usbekistan (whose government BOILS people), and the Mujahadein that would someday become the Taliban?
Keltoi, do you have some beleif in some unique sort of goodness that america posseses that would make the truism “power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely”
December 17th, 2008 at 1:01 amnot apply to its government?
Lets face it…anyone who thinks the iraqis who run iraq now are are any less brutal than saddam are incredibly naive..now the only difference is that because iraq is now being advertised as a “democracy” there is some small semblance of freedom of the press..thus what keeps this shoe hurling reporter from being brutally tortured and killed by the government of iraq is NOT that they are somehow better than saddam, its that they couldnt do such a thing without people finding out and there being a huge public outcry.. I have no doubt the puppet government being paid with our tax dollars would fillet this guy and hang him from the public square if they could get away with it.. i do hope the “free the shoe hurler” becomes a political issue in the upcoming iraqi elections, and i hope it causese the collapse of the current illegitimate puppet government of iraq even quicker..
December 17th, 2008 at 1:06 amYeah,
December 17th, 2008 at 3:40 amToss your shoe at a Wall Street crook and they will use your tax dollars toprosecute you and put you in prison for 10 years.