ThinkFast: December 17, 2008
ThinkFast: December 17, 2008
Time Magazine named Barack Obama its Person of the Year today “for having the confidence to sketch that kind of future in this gloomy hour and for showing the competence that makes Americans hopeful that he will pull it off.”
As part of “an elaborate operation devised to smooth the first transition of power” since 9/11, The White House “has prepared more than a dozen contingency plans to help guide President-elect Barack Obama if an international crisis erupts in the opening days of his administration.” The memos imagine terror strikes, cyberattacks, nuclear explosions and “outline options for Mr. Obama to consider.”
Obama will hold a press conference later this morning to announce former Iowa Gov. Tom Vilsack and Sen. Ken Salazar as the next Secretaries of Agriculture and Interior. Vilsack “will lead a sprawling federal bureaucracy charged with overseeing farm subsidies, land conservation, food safety and hunger programs.” Both environmentalists and food industry leaders reacted positively to his selection, but some food activists are raising concerns.
HUD Secretary Steven Preston tells the Washington Post that “the centerpiece of the federal government’s effort to help struggling homeowners has been a failure“. Though “the three-year program was supposed to help 400,000 borrowers avoid foreclosure,” Preston says “it has attracted only 312 applications since its October launch because it is too expensive and onerous for lenders and borrowers alike.”
In a speech earlier this year, incoming Energy Secretary Steven Chu bluntly stated, “Coal is my worst nightmare.” Chu said he isn’t “sold on the idea that technology to capture greenhouse emissions and pump them underground will save the coal industry.”
NASA declared yesterday that the year 2008 was the ninth warmest year since 1880 and that “all of the nine warmest years have occurred in the past 11 years.” Center for American Progress Senior Fellow Joe Romm notes that the World Meteorological Organization also reported yesterday that the global mean temperature for 2008 makes it the tenth warmest year since 1850.
The House Progressive caucus — the largest “organized faction in the Democratic Caucus” — is pushing Speaker Nancy Pelosi to embrace a “$1 trillion, two-year stimulus package aimed at low- and middle-income Americans.” Pelosi’s spokesperson said the idea would be “considered.”
According to a new Washington Post/ABC News poll, nearly two-thirds of Americans “say that they have been hurt by the downturn” in the economy “and that the country has slipped into long-term economic decline.” The poll “also found that a rapidly increasing share of Americans — 66 percent, up from just over half a year ago — are worried about maintaining their standard of living.”
The House Oversight Committee has released a report showing that “hundreds of Clean Water Act violations have not been pursued with enforcement actions.” “Our investigation reveals that the clean water program has been decimated as hundreds of enforcement cases have been dropped, downgraded, delayed, or never brought in the first place,” Chairman Henry Waxman (D-CA) noted.
And finally: On Monday, the Bush administration held its final Hanukkah party. The event, which reportedly “wasn’t quite as wild as last week’s Christmas party for members of Congress,” did feature “dancing until 9 p.m. in the White House foyer (by men only).” The Washington Post’s Mary Ann Akers reports that the highlight was an appearance by former Bushie Karl Rove who “worked the crowd and held court in the East Room next to the all-kosher buffet.” Other attendees were Attorney General Michael Mukasey, White House chief of staff Josh Bolten, and Sen. Joseph Lieberman (I-CT).
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
I don’t know much about psychopharmacology, but whatever Bush is on, it appears to make him think of the rest of the world as something like Munchkins : entertaining little beings, suitable for PR, rather than serious stuff like policy-making. I drew this comparison here yesterday, but at that time I was thinking solely of ‘non-Americans.’ Now it seems we must extend the Munchkin analogy to non-neocons as a whole, therefore including the next President.
December 17th, 2008 at 9:10 amThe White House “has prepared more than a dozen contingency plans to help guide President-elect Barack Obama if an international crisis erupts in the opening days of his administration.”
I certainly hope that Obama ignores any contingency plan devised by the Bush Crime Family. I have total confidence that Obama can handle any international crisis much better than Bush ever did.
December 17th, 2008 at 9:14 amI agree with bilbo, he should trash any plans given him by those clowns.
December 17th, 2008 at 9:18 amBilbo beat me to it.
Obviously Obama would be wise to take their “contingency plans” and perhaps do the opposite. The Bush WH has certainly managed to ruin everything they’ve touched . . .
December 17th, 2008 at 9:18 amThe White House “has prepared more than a dozen contingency plans to help guide President-elect Barack Obama if an international crisis erupts in the opening days of his administration.”
Great–they think they can guide foreign policy/defense even after they’re gone! It’s as obnoxious as my partner’s ex-wife telling him what he should do with the kids when we had them stay with us on alternate weekends. Let go!
December 17th, 2008 at 9:19 amTime Magazine named Barack Obama its Person of the Year…
__________________________________________________________
This year the TIME POY was pretty much a no-brainer. The designation (it’s really not an “award”) is given to the person who, for good or bad, had the greatest impact on the news during the year. And in 2008, nobody else even came close.
Fortunately, for TIME, the person who had the greatest impact on the news is someone who is thought of far more positively than negatively, so they didn’t wimp out on naming the obvious choice, as they have in other years.
In 2001, the biggest news story of the year was the attacks of September 11. This not only dominated the news for days afterward, but it changed American lives and culture forever, influencing almost every other significant news story from them on. Yet — did TIME name Osama bin Laden POY? Or Al Qaeda? Or anybody connected with 9/11 or terrorist attacks in general? Nope — Rudy Giuliani got the nod. It was at that point that I realized TIME had abandoned the traditional criterion for the designation (out of what? cowardice? fear of losing subscribers?) and turned it into just another meaningless cheesy award. Which Rudy exploited during his presidential run.
Maybe TIME will eventually get back to their original principles.
December 17th, 2008 at 9:23 amDidn’t the Clinton administration prepare some contingency plans for Bush…things like, “Hey, Bin Laden is REALLY gearing up to do something so stay alert”? I think Obama will at least have the intelligence to look at it…
December 17th, 2008 at 9:26 amAs part of “an elaborate operation devised to smooth the first transition of power” since 9/11, The White House “has prepared more than a dozen contingency plans to help guide President-elect Barack Obama if an international crisis erupts in the opening days of his administration.” The memos imagine terror strikes, cyberattacks, nuclear explosions and “outline options for Mr. Obama to consider.”
I think we can be confident that the Obama Administration will at least look the information, unlike the Bush Administration when it was told by the Clinton Administration that Bin Laden and Al Qaeda represented the most serious threat to the United States….
December 17th, 2008 at 9:27 amMorning John Kerry.
December 17th, 2008 at 9:30 amI wasn’t planning it but since you are here and I have the fixins’ might you enjoy a little lobster and goat cheese omellete with chives? Maybe you can stick around for that chat. I hope you aren’t still so scared…
John Kerry Says
December 17th, 2008 at 9:26 am
One word…DELUSIONAL!!
__________________________________________________________
I think in your case, you might need more than one word to sound coherent.
Are you applying the term to every person mentioned in the entire ThinkFast list? Or just a particular item? Or perhaps you are referring to one of the other posters? Without some additional detail, you post is meaningless.
I realize that thoughtful, intellectual arguments aren’t your forte, but you could at least attempt to say who you think is delusional, and why.
Or perhaps this was just the “word of the day” on your calendar today?
December 17th, 2008 at 9:33 amOddly all the contigency plans start with “bomb them”
December 17th, 2008 at 9:36 amand end with “tax cuts for the wealthy”.
Apparently John Kerry can’t count either. That’s three words John.
December 17th, 2008 at 9:36 amOne word… HANDSOME!!
Oh, I’m sorry, I thought we were playing the ‘describe yourself’ game
December 17th, 2008 at 9:37 amI wonder how many more Muslims we have to elect to office before the White House hosts an Eid party, complete with an all-halal buffet?
December 17th, 2008 at 9:38 amI find it a bit ironic reading about the transition plans of the Bush administration, knowing that they ignored all the briefings prepared by the Clinton administration.
December 17th, 2008 at 9:38 amIn a separate letter to current Attorney General Michael Mukasey, the senators ask for information tying Holder to 17 separate issues including the Rich pardon and the Gonzales case, but also Vice President Al Gore’s 1996 fundraising scandal and Clinton’s history of special prosecutors in the Whitewater and Monica Lewinsky scandals from 1993 to 2001.
The letters were signed by GOP committee members Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania, Sam Brownback of Kansas, John Cornyn of Texas, Tom Coburn of Oklahoma, Chuck Grassley of Iowa, Orrin Hatch of Utah, Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and Jon Kyl of Arizona. Only Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.), a former U.S. attorney, did not sign either letter. A Sessions spokesman did not immediately return a call for comment.
The senators also asked for any Holder ties to pardons of 16 Puerto Rican nationalists granted by President Clinton in 1999, as well as a gun-control measure Clinton signed that year and the extension of the gun-control Brady Bill.
The Rich pardon remains a focus of sorts, along with others Clinton granted on his final day in office on Jan. 20, 2001, including Rich’s partner, Pincus Green. The senators asked for “any clemency or non-clemency related matter” regarding six final-day pardons, including those of Rich and Green, as well as any communication involving the Rich and Green pardons between Holder and the U.S. Attorney’s office for the Southern District of New York
Slightly off topic, but it is interesting how much energy the Repubs are going to put in challenging the AG. Wonder if this will be the case with every AG nominated until one “friendly” to bushco is nominated. Or is the plan to discredit the AG and make these issues the response to every action taken by the AG?
December 17th, 2008 at 9:39 amWho better to advise Obama than the man who:
1. Sat blinking for 7+ minutes reading “My Pet Goat” after being told the nation is under attack?
2. Posed for a birthday cake photo op while citizens were drowning in New Orleans?
3. Still hasn’t captured Bin Laden?
4. Lied us into war?
5. Nominated Harriet Meiers?
6. Hasn’t a clue to solving the economic crises his policies created?
Next, I suppose Gov. Palin will be giving foreign policy advise….
December 17th, 2008 at 9:40 amKen Salazar?? Whatever th’ hell happened to “change?”
Soon after arriving in the Senate, Salazar generated controversy within his party by introducing Attorney General nominee Alberto Gonzales and sitting by his side during Gonzales’ confirmation hearings.
In 2005, Salazar voted against increasing fuel-efficiency standards (CAFE) for cars and trucks…
In August 2006, Ken Salazar supported fellow Democratic Senator Joe Lieberman in his primary race against Ned Lamont in Connecticut.
According to Project Vote Smart, Ken Salazar received a 25% vote rating for 2007 by the Humane Society of the United States
This appointment stinks to high heaven!
(wiki)
You remember Gale Norton, don’cha?
Christ, Obama flip-flopping on offshore drilling and screwing us on telecom immunity, now this…the hits just keep on coming.
December 17th, 2008 at 9:43 amCareful misshusseinmolly. Do you really want to have to deal with the “see we told you he was a secret muslim freedom hater” crowd?
December 17th, 2008 at 9:44 amBarack Hussein Obama – Time magazine’s Person of the Year!
of course!
but, could Time not find an ACTUAL photo of the man?
what’s that about???
and, that caribou barbie even made the top 100, much less top 5,
December 17th, 2008 at 9:49 amis embarrassing as hell… i know, i know… at least it was because she’s “transitional” not “transformational”… jeez…
THAT was a mistake…
“Well, let’s have a look at those contingency plans.”
December 17th, 2008 at 9:50 am“Yes, Mr. President.”
“Hmmmm.”
“Sir?”
“This one says, ‘Blame the Democrats.’”
“So does this one, sir.”
“Let’s see another–yes, Blame the Democrats, and the rest is footnotes to Ann Coulter books.”
“Here’s one, sir.”
“Ah! ‘Blame the previous administration.’”
“A keeper, sir?”
“No, it dupicates one Axelrod had workedup.”
“Hmm…”
“Anything?”
“Not so far…”
“Not a ‘bomb them into the stone age’?”
“No sir. The closest I saw was a sub-point, “Threaten to bomb them–and then blame the Democrats.”"
“I see.”
“Oh! Here’s one!”
“Let me hear it.”
“‘Blame FDR.”"
“Ah.”
“Sir? Are you all right? Please don’t bang your head on the desk like that, sir! Sir?…”
The White House “has prepared more than a dozen contingency plans to help guide President-elect Barack Obama if an international crisis erupts in the opening days of his administration.”
hell, if he just read the reports that the clinton admin prepared for boosh, he’d be ahead of the game…
Mr. Obama, sir, you cannot trust ANY bushie… at all… ever.
December 17th, 2008 at 9:57 amI suppose there is little sense in cracking those eggs. Damn that John Kerry is a sissy.
December 17th, 2008 at 9:59 amviking… mothers are like that. she means well. let it go.
smile and say “ok”. you will ALL be better off for it… in time.
(just a nosey hunch here) ( but you put it out there)
December 17th, 2008 at 10:01 amdbadass Says
December 17th, 2008 at 9:44 am
Careful misshusseinmolly. Do you really want to have to deal with the “see we told you he was a secret muslim freedom hater” crowd?
_____________________________________________________________
You have an excellent point, but I suspect we have to deal with those bigots one way or another no matter what we do.
According to some sources, there are about 6 to 7 million Muslims in the United States, putting them in the same ballpark as the number of Jews. They contribute to our society in the way that all other Americans do, yet so often the only press they get is when they are suspected of being terrorists. Is it any wonder that so many Americans fear for their lives whenever they see a woman in a hijab, silly as that seems? And is it any wonder that so much of the Muslim world sees the United States as an anti-Islamic nation? Fomenting this kind of strife isn’t constructive on any level (unless, of course, you’re trying to gin up an excuse to go to war).
We can celebrate the contributions Muslims make to our culture, recognize their holidays as we do the Jewish ones, and truly accept them as American as the rest of us — and we can condemn terrorism at the same time. This will go a long way toward de-conflating the two.
December 17th, 2008 at 10:03 ammisshusseinmolly Says:
I wonder how many more Muslims we have to elect to office before the White House hosts an Eid party, complete with an all-halal buffet?
December 17th, 2008 at 9:38 am
__________
Good question. They do issue a statement every year for ‘Eid al-Fitr and ‘Eid al-Adha, but haven’t hosted any celebrations that I know of.
Though there was one time that the administration hosted a lunchtime public diplomacy meeting with DC-area Arab and Muslim groups, complete with a large catered spread of shwarma and falafel.
During Ramadan.
December 17th, 2008 at 10:04 amThe memos imagine terror strikes, cyberattacks, nuclear explosions and “outline options for Mr. Obama to consider.”
bush/cheney’s wet dream…. and you can bet the advisory is ‘martial law’.
December 17th, 2008 at 10:04 amI’m guessing thorazine.
December 17th, 2008 at 10:06 amNo. The more words he strings together, the worse it gets.
December 17th, 2008 at 10:10 amhussein toasterhead Says
December 17th, 2008 at 10:04 am
Though there was one time that the administration hosted a lunchtime public diplomacy meeting with DC-area Arab and Muslim groups, complete with a large catered spread of shwarma and falafel.
During Ramadan.
_________________________________________________________
Geez — you’d think they could at least have rescheduled the event for after sunset. Or after Eid al-Fitr.
Barack Obama is not Muslim, but fortunately he’s somewhat familiar with Muslim culture. Enough that this type of blunder should not happen during his watch.
December 17th, 2008 at 10:14 ammisshusseinmolly Says:
Is it any wonder that so many Americans fear for their lives whenever they see a woman in a hijab, silly as that seems? And is it any wonder that so much of the Muslim world sees the United States as an anti-Islamic nation?
December 17th, 2008 at 10:03 am
________
Nope. It’s not silly at all. It’s the result of decades of careful conditioning of our amygdalas by the media. It’s the same reason we all harbor subconscious negative connotations towards people of color. We’ve had our minds primed by years and years and years of stories and imagery associating Islam and terror, Muslims and bombs, Arabs and violence.
Reversing that takes work – it’s difficult enough to do within yourself, let alone in a society.
December 17th, 2008 at 10:18 amJohn Kerry (the troll, not the war hero).
I think you’ve used the wrong word.
Having the Bush administration hand over contingency plans to president elect Obama for preparedness of a terrorist attack is not delusional.
More like hypocritical!
As in, if they would have paid attention to the previous administration’s warnings, instead of stubbornly distancing themselves, 3000+ would be alive today, along with another 4000+ brave men and women.
December 17th, 2008 at 10:35 amIsraeli papers said Sheldon Adelson attended the White House Hanukkah event.
December 17th, 2008 at 10:45 amdbadass Says:
Morning John Kerry.
I wasn’t planning it but since you are here and I have the fixins’ might you enjoy a little lobster and goat cheese omellete with chives? Maybe you can stick around for that chat. I hope you aren’t still so scared…
You were lurking with those ingredients this morning, weren’t you dbadass? Sounds awfully good, dunno why he won’t take you up on it.
December 17th, 2008 at 11:07 amAccording to a new Washington Post/ABC News poll, nearly two-thirds of Americans “say that they have been hurt by the downturn” in the economy
I’ve been paying off and cancelling credit cards, car loans and non-essential monthly bills, which hasn’t hurt, it’s actually been quite cathartic.
But I’m one of the fortunate. I can live within my means.
“Firing” Citigroup after being a “member” for over a decade was especially exhilarating.
December 17th, 2008 at 11:07 amhussein toasterhead Says:
Nope. It’s not silly at all. It’s the result of decades of careful conditioning of our amygdalas by the media. It’s the same reason we all harbor subconscious negative connotations towards people of color. We’ve had our minds primed by years and years and years of stories and imagery associating Islam and terror, Muslims and bombs, Arabs and violence.
Is it conditioning by the media or conditioning by reality? Not that the media hasn’t been terrorists second most effective weapon after the violence they perpetrate to get the media to cover them, but c’mon, it isn’t like there is not an underlying truth to the association between “Islam and terror, Muslims and bombs, Arabs and violence.” You can go back to the murder of the Israeli atheletes at the Olympics, the storming of our embassy in Teheran, Hezbollah blowing up the marine barracks in Lebanon…and lots more. All of it before 9-11 OR Bush.
That said, I don’t personally fear Muslims. Don’t know any personally, but they are around even up here. Hijabs don’t scare me anymore than the Mennonites headress.
December 17th, 2008 at 11:13 amKeltoi:
December 17th, 2008 at 11:22 amActually I have the distinct luxury of access to many ingredients. Be that as it may, I notice that you have seem to not have an explaination for the people of color component of the comment. Is it that you just want to pull out events and imagery which supports a preconceived notion. Do you suggest that African Americans, Native Americans, Iranians, and many more should not be conditioned to viewing white America as dangerous and violent?
______
misshusseinmolly Says:
Is it any wonder that so many Americans fear for their lives whenever they see a woman in a hijab, silly as that seems?
December 17th, 2008 at 10:03 am
______
Those women are merely a curiosity to most Americans. It’s generally the men with them that give pause.
December 17th, 2008 at 11:23 am400,000 in need and 312 applications? That’s Katrina like performance.
December 17th, 2008 at 11:25 am“It’s generally the men with them that give pause.”
And why is that? Do you feel the same of the hiphop teen or the numbling catlady?
December 17th, 2008 at 11:29 amnumbling = muttering. Don’t ask me how that happened. What about that shitkicker with the gun rack in the F150? Is he scary too
December 17th, 2008 at 11:31 amKeltoi Says:
Is it conditioning by the media or conditioning by reality? Not that the media hasn’t been terrorists second most effective weapon after the violence they perpetrate to get the media to cover them, but c’mon, it isn’t like there is not an underlying truth to the association between “Islam and terror, Muslims and bombs, Arabs and violence.” You can go back to the murder of the Israeli atheletes at the Olympics, the storming of our embassy in Teheran, Hezbollah blowing up the marine barracks in Lebanon…and lots more. All of it before 9-11 OR Bush.
December 17th, 2008 at 11:13 am
Interesting point. Let’s looks at this “reality” thing for a moment. If your small set of violent incidents is any indication, than people in Arab/Muslim countries should be far more violent than people in Western/European countries.
Let’s compare per-capita crime statistics from different countries and see who’s the most violent, Arabs/Muslims or Westerners/Europeans:
Interesting. Not a single Arab country on the list. Not a single predominantly Muslim country on the list.
Well, where are they?
Interesting. I wonder what happens when we focus specifically on murder rates?
Wow. So Arab/Muslim countries are no more murderous than Western/European countries. In fact, their murder rates are often much lower.
So what were you saying about reality again?
December 17th, 2008 at 11:32 amJohn Sununu was appointed to the TARP oversight board. His CNBC interview was pitiful. He justified banks not lending during a period of deleveraging. Sununu didn’t say how long it would last.
I expect him to ask about Uncle Sam’s returns on the preferred shares and not much more.
December 17th, 2008 at 11:37 amWhite House Contingency Plan:
BOMB ICELAND
December 17th, 2008 at 11:39 amhussein toasterhead Says:
So what were you saying about reality again?
________________
I think it was something to the effect that no matter what he does, reality manages to evade him over and over gain.
December 17th, 2008 at 11:43 amMissHusseinMolly,
Unfortunately, I had two episodes in the last week. The first was at a fast food restaurant hearing the conversation from the next table of how Obama wasn’t even a US Citizen, they were gonna cover it up, etc. etc.
Then I saw the front page of “The Globe” tabloid sitting in a store – with a big picture of Obama and a headline also saying that Obama wasn’t a citizen.
AAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!
December 17th, 2008 at 11:56 amToaterhead….I think I misunderstood you. I thought you were refering to Muslims in general, perhaps even specifically abroad. I re-read Missmolly’s comment that prompted yours and I get what you are saying.
I am still not sure there is all that much bleed over between the portrayal of Muslims abroad and American Muslims. While there was some anti-Muslim violence in the US in the days after 9-11, it wasn’t rife. I don’t know how many Americans conflate domestic Islam with terrorism. I think they are far more likely to be afraid of skin color than ethnic dress.
As to dbadass comment at 39, prejudice is still with us, sad to say. I think it is human nature to fear “the other”. You could argue all day who should be more afraid of who, though in reality the whole thing is indeed our amygdala getting the better of us. They have studied this, and the fear response activates deep in our primitive brain when we are shown someone not of our “tribe”. It is less the media that is to blame than our distant evolution.
And Toasterhead, per your domestic violence chart, I think you have to recognize there are many factors that go into that. Saudi Arabia is ridiculously wealthy and has a draconinan penal code – it is hardly surprising people are well behaved there.
December 17th, 2008 at 12:08 pmupright left Says:
Those women are merely a curiosity to most Americans. It’s generally the men with them that give pause.
______________
Hehe… then you do understand how I feel when I see Giuliani in drag.
December 17th, 2008 at 12:15 pmMapleStreet Says:
MissHusseinMolly,
Unfortunately, I had two episodes in the last week…
______________
Unfortunately, there is still no known cure for stupid.
December 17th, 2008 at 12:17 pmkeltoi:
I am trained in evolutionary biology and animal behavior. The thing is that you didn’t make that case. You made this one
“but c’mon, it isn’t like there is not an underlying truth to the association between “Islam and terror, Muslims and bombs, Arabs and violence. You can go back to the murder of the Israeli atheletes at the Olympics, the storming of our embassy in Teheran, Hezbollah blowing up the marine barracks in Lebanon…and lots more.”
December 17th, 2008 at 12:18 pm“Unfortunately, there is still no known cure for stupid.”
It is amazin how frequently dumbass get all weirded out thinking my Iranian friend is Mexiacan. It is hilarious when after being treated with no respect by these bumpkins, he points out that he is not Mexiacan but instead Iranian. You can almost hear their brains snap…
December 17th, 2008 at 12:21 pmYeah, large groups of blacks make you nervous too, we see the fear you know and we know it’s irrational and that’s what makes the rest of us afraid of you racists.
December 17th, 2008 at 12:21 pmrationalizing prejudice……try letting your brain evolve.
December 17th, 2008 at 12:26 pmKeltoi Says:
Toaterhead….I think I misunderstood you. I thought you were refering to Muslims in general, perhaps even specifically abroad. I re-read Missmolly’s comment that prompted yours and I get what you are saying.
No, you understood me perfectly. I was saying that our American perception of Muslims in general, and specifically Arab Muslims in and from the Levant, is shaped by priming factors that dramatically overemphasize violence and conflict. We do the same thing, but to a lesser extent, with black people, which is why you and I associate African-Americans with crime, poverty, and other negative things.
And Toasterhead, per your domestic violence chart, I think you have to recognize there are many factors that go into that. Saudi Arabia is ridiculously wealthy and has a draconinan penal code – it is hardly surprising people are well behaved there.
December 17th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
________
Of course. There are plenty of factors that can bias the statistics a bit – crime is also notoriously underreported in developing countries, for example, which could slightly skew the results. But even with an arbitrary 10% margin of error, the statistics still don’t show the “reality” that would condition an association between Islam and violence.
December 17th, 2008 at 12:26 pmdbadass Says:
——————————————————————————–
keltoi:
I am trained in evolutionary biology and animal behavior. The thing is that you didn’t make that case. You made this one
“but c’mon, it isn’t like there is not an underlying truth to the association between “Islam and terror, Muslims and bombs, Arabs and violence. You can go back to the murder of the Israeli atheletes at the Olympics, the storming of our embassy in Teheran, Hezbollah blowing up the marine barracks in Lebanon…and lots more.”
Dunno if you read my clarification. My point was that there is a reason to associate “Islam and terror, Muslims and bombs, Arabs and violence” based on recent history. I – mistakenly, I think – thought Toasterhead was saying this association was purely media driven and caused fear of Muslims domestically. I don’t think it is purely media driven, but I also don’t think Americans fear women in hijabs because of this history. Again, I think skin color activates the fear reflex more than ethnic garb.
In my personal case, if anything, when ever I encounter someone clearly of ME descent I go out of my way to be friendly and polite. I live in lilly white N. Idaho and I admire the courage of any non-anglo who makes their home here, though the reputation is worse than the reality.
December 17th, 2008 at 12:32 pmFred Says:
rationalizing prejudice……try letting your brain evolve.
December 17th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
_________
Evolution doesn’t work that way, I’m afraid.
You may not like the results, but the fact is that our brains and neurochemical systems are wired to make very quick in-group/out-group decisions. We needed to know whether that thing jumping out of the grass at us is our own child or a sabre-toothed tiger. It’s precisely because of this hardwiring that the human race survived long enough to leave Africa in the first place.
Now, the way we compartmentalize who’s in the in-group and who’s in the out-group is a product of society and priming, and that’s something that takes a long, conscious effort for a society and its members to overcome.
December 17th, 2008 at 12:36 pmhussein toasterhead Says:
——————————————————————————–
Keltoi Says:
Toaterhead….I think I misunderstood you. I thought you were refering to Muslims in general, perhaps even specifically abroad. I re-read Missmolly’s comment that prompted yours and I get what you are saying.
No, you understood me perfectly. I was saying that our American perception of Muslims in general, and specifically Arab Muslims in and from the Levant, is shaped by priming factors that dramatically overemphasize violence and conflict. We do the same thing, but to a lesser extent, with black people, which is why you and I associate African-Americans with crime, poverty, and other negative things.
Hm…well, unfortunately, there has been a real dearth of media events that could emphasize positive relations between the West and Islam since WWII. Even when we embark on things like Kosovo to save Muslims from Anglos, we seem to get no credit. Or saving Muslim Somalis from starvation is seen as an oil grab. Ditto saving Kuwait from Saddam, deposing the Taliban or Saddam himself for that matter. Whenever we try to help them, it is portrayed as serving our own selfish interests.
And over half the time that perception it true, too! But I don’t think you can blame the media for that.
December 17th, 2008 at 12:37 pmI think it does. I was raised in the deep south at a time when they had colored drinking fountains, etc. Even then living in the accepted racism, you know it is not logical. Your brain can certainly evolve……what is learning?
December 17th, 2008 at 12:42 pmFrans De Waal has much to say of the origins and evolution of morality in primates.
December 17th, 2008 at 12:44 pmKeltoi Says:
Hm…well, unfortunately, there has been a real dearth of media events that could emphasize positive relations between the West and Islam since WWII.
A dearth of events, or a dearth of coverage? The plain fact is that stories about cooperation and cultural exchange don’t have the impact of, say, a truck bombing in Beirut. We don’t see the
And the impact of colonialism – including the creation of Israel – cannot be ignored. The breakup of the Ottoman and British and French empires led to the carving up of the Middle East in ways that were not at all conducive to peace. By design, I argue.
Even when we embark on things like Kosovo to save Muslims from Anglos, we seem to get no credit. Or saving Muslim Somalis from starvation is seen as an oil grab. Ditto saving Kuwait from Saddam, deposing the Taliban or Saddam himself for that matter. Whenever we try to help them, it is portrayed as serving our own selfish interests.
December 17th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
__________
Because we are. People who have seen the democratic governments we’ve toppled and populations we’ve removed and countries we’ve invaded in the name of selfish interests should have no reason to believe that there is anything we as a country do that is not making a profit for somebody somewhere.
December 17th, 2008 at 12:54 pmFred Says:
I think it does. I was raised in the deep south at a time when they had colored drinking fountains, etc. Even then living in the accepted racism, you know it is not logical. Your brain can certainly evolve……what is learning?
December 17th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
_________
The process of acquiring new data and compartmentalizing it based on previously acquired patterns, from what I know about neuroscience which admittedly is not a whole lot.
Yes, you can retrain your brain to make new patterns at any time in your life. It’s harder as you get older, but it can be done.
It’s the same as the process of learning a new language – your brain was wired as a child to look at that mug of brown, floral-smelling liquid and associate it with the name “tea.” It takes much more repetition as an adult to re-associate it with the name “shay” or “cha” or “tsaa.” It can be done, but it takes work. You’re never going to fully disassociate it from that original pattern, though. Deep down it will always be “tea.”
Prejudice, I believe, works the same way. Same basic neural pathways. Prejudice is a good thing – it keeps you from drinking fire and sticking your tongue in light sockets. We can’t live without prejudice – we’d never survive. We just have to learn to shape it in ways that are productive rather than destructive.
December 17th, 2008 at 1:06 pmThe problem with your logic toasterhead is that prejudice is learned to begin with…….you don’t come into the world hating muslims or blacks.
December 17th, 2008 at 1:15 pmTime got it right, surprisingly. Of course it should be the President-Elect.
I thought that Time, in the bizzare interest of “fairness”, might name Bush the man of the year, and fruitlessly argue that he had the most impact on the election because his policies were at the center of it…or some bulls*** like that.
December 17th, 2008 at 1:17 pmFred Says:
The problem with your logic toasterhead is that prejudice is learned to begin with…….you don’t come into the world hating muslims or blacks.
December 17th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
__________
Of course not. That’s completely beside the point. I know that in-group/out-group prejudice is a learned behavior. I also think it’s futile to attempt to unlearn it, because you never will. I think it’s much better to learn to recognize it, understand it, and appreciate its impact on your decisions and perceptions, rather than try and deny its existence.
December 17th, 2008 at 1:23 pmI agree with you toasterhead. It’s just that too many people embrace thier prejudices……
December 17th, 2008 at 1:43 pmFred Says:
I agree with you toasterhead. It’s just that too many people embrace thier prejudices…
December 17th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
__________
On that, we most definitely agree.
December 17th, 2008 at 1:46 pm______
dbadass Says:
“It’s generally the men with them that give pause.”
And why is that? Do you feel the same of the hiphop teen or the numbling catlady?
December 17th, 2008 at 11:29 am
______
You might notice that I wrote “them”. I’m not bothered by the men or the women. The hiphop teen, like all teens, is only annoying if he’s trying to make sure everyone in the county hears his music or what he has to say. I’ve never encountered a mumbling cat lady, but there is a mentally ill woman locally who talks to herself but has no cats. I generally carry some groceries to give her and ask if she needs a ride home. I’m not really sure what that had to do with my original comment, though.
December 17th, 2008 at 4:16 pmToasterhead, can I marry you? LOL! (Don’t worry, I’m kidding. Maybe. I’ll just let you squirm all day wondering.)
December 17th, 2008 at 4:18 pm______
dbadass Says:
What about that shitkicker with the gun rack in the F150? Is he scary too
December 17th, 2008 at 11:31 am
______
He’s generally harmless, just steer clear of him on the road on Friday and Saturday night. ;)
December 17th, 2008 at 4:19 pmhttp://www.boingboing.net/2008/12/15/iraq-shoe-tosser-guy.html
December 17th, 2008 at 4:20 pm______
Fred Says:
——————————————————————————–
upright left Says:
Those women are merely a curiosity to most Americans. It’s generally the men with them that give pause.
Yeah, large groups of blacks make you nervous too, we see the fear you know and we know it’s irrational and that’s what makes the rest of us afraid of you racists.
December 17th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
______
Sorry, Fred, but none of the groups of black men I’ve encountered have inspired fear in me. I suppose if I encountered a group of black men who were threatening me, I might be a little concerned, but then that goes for any race. Brush up on your racism detecting skills.
December 17th, 2008 at 4:31 pmI vaguely recall a comment earlier in which someone implied that racism against women in hijabs is not as rampant as the media would lead us to believe. i just read the user comments at the bottom of this article and it makes my stomach turn:
http://news.aol.com/article/muslim-woman-jailed-over-head-scarf/280144
December 17th, 2008 at 7:52 pm