Cheney Defends Torture: It ‘Would Have Been Unethical Or Immoral’ For Us Not To Torture
Cheney Defends Torture: It ‘Would Have Been Unethical Or Immoral’ For Us Not To Torture
In an interview earlier this week, Vice President Cheney admitted to personally approving the torture of high-profile detainees. In a new interview with the Washington Times, Cheney stridently defended the Bush administration’s torture policies, saying, “I feel very good about what we did. I think it was the right thing to do.” He added emphatically that he would “do exactly the same thing again.”
Most audaciously, Cheney specifically defended the morality of torture, suggesting that it would have been immoral for the United States to not torture:
“In my mind, the foremost obligation we had from a moral or an ethical standpoint was to the oath of office we took when we were sworn in, on January 20 of 2001, to protect and defend against all enemies foreign and domestic. And that’s what we’ve done,” he said. [...]
“I think it would have been unethical or immoral for us not to do everything we could in order to protect the nation against further attacks like what happened on 9/11,” Mr. Cheney said.
Cheney insisted that the torture policies he helped craft were “directly responsible for the fact that we’ve been able to avoid or defeat further attacks against the homeland for 7 1/2 years.”
Torture has endangered, not protected, American lives. Military experts say that the U.S.’s torture policies have been the single greatest recruiting tool for al Qaeda. A former interrogator who worked in Iraq stated unequivocally, “The number of U.S. soldiers who have died because of our torture policy will never be definitively known, but it is fair to say that it is close to the number of lives lost on Sept. 11, 2001.”
Rather than keeping us safe, former FBI special agent Jack Cloonan warned that Cheney’s torture policies will lead directly to another domestic terrorist attack:
Based on my experience in talking to Al Qaida members, I am persuaded that revenge in the form of a catastrophic attack on the homeland is coming; that a new generation of jihadist martyrs, motivated in part by the images from Abu Ghraib, is, as we speak, planning to kill Americans; and that nothing gleaned from the use of coercive interrogation techniques will be of any significant use in forestalling this calamitous eventuality.
Cheney appeared unconcerned about the possibility of being held legally responsible for what many are calling an admission of war crimes. He insisted that waterboarding was not torture, and explained, “We spent a great deal of time and effort getting legal advice.” However, speaking on MSNBC last night, Sen. Carl Levin (D-MI) said, “You can’t just suddenly change something that is illegal into something that is legal by having a lawyer write an opinion that saying it’s legal.”
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Waiting for one goddamn conservative apologist to deny Cheney’s remarks are fokking different than Stalin’s, Pol Pot’s, Hitler’s, or Hirohito’s ….. I know they’re coming, just waiting …..
Just saying …
December 18th, 2008 at 10:18 amHey Congress! Oversight is one of your Sworn Duties Folks! Even though it’s the 11th hour, self-confessed criminals should really, really be arreasted and prosecuted! IMPEACH! THERE’S STILL TIME!
December 18th, 2008 at 10:18 amIf it’s only the gesture, it’s still a gesture that Needs to be made.
A big dumb dick with 5 military deferments knows NOTHING about what he speaks.
ABSO-FCUKING-LUTELY NOTHING.
December 18th, 2008 at 10:19 amCheney Defends Torture: It ‘Would Have Been Unethical Or Immoral’ For Us Not To Torture»
– - The Bush Legacy Tour is even more unseemly and repugnant than the Smoking Gun As Mushroom Cloud opening act was.
December 18th, 2008 at 10:20 amSen. Carl Levin (D-MI) said, “You can’t just suddenly change something that is illegal into something that is legal by having a lawyer write an opinion that saying it’s legal.”
Yes, they can — if YOU continue to let them.
December 18th, 2008 at 10:21 amDarth cheney should be waterboarded for his war crimes. That would be reasonable punishment for this chickenhawk coward who avoided military service when asked to serve our country.
December 18th, 2008 at 10:22 amWell, he’s not denying anymore.
Throw the book at him REAL HARD.
It’s got to be better than the alternative for him: dying at the hands of those he tortured.
Although I’d be totally fine with that, really.
December 18th, 2008 at 10:25 amIt became necessary to destroy freedom in order to save it.
December 18th, 2008 at 10:26 am“In my mind, the foremost obligation we had from a moral or an ethical standpoint was to the oath of office we took when we were sworn in, on January 20 of 2001, to protect and defend against all enemies foreign and domestic. And that’s what we’ve done,” he said.
____________
Really, Dick?
I’m wondering what country you took the oath of office of on January 20 of 2001. Because in my country, the oath of office is this:
Nothing about defending against enemies. Nothing about protecting the country. A whole lot about protecting the Constitution, which you have quite thoroughly failed to do.
December 18th, 2008 at 10:28 amSounds to me like Darth Cheney knows he has a “get out of jail card” in his back pocket from Pardon Me George..
December 18th, 2008 at 10:30 amJust for my own knowledge base: isn’t it really up to the Justice Department, not Congress, to “do something” in regards to Cheney’s pretty clear admission that he approved and promoted illegal action by his subordinates?
December 18th, 2008 at 10:31 amDick says:
“I think it would have been unethical or immoral for us not to do everything we could in order to protect the nation against further attacks like what happened on 9/11,”
As always, I will present the other side of the story.
How would we feel, as a nation, if the leaders of Al Qaida issued this statement (while torturing American soldiers):
“We think it would have been unethical or immoral for us fighting a jihad NOT to do everything we could in order to protect our countries against further illegal occupations like what happened with Iraq.”
December 18th, 2008 at 10:33 amIt would have been unethical or immoral for us not to torture.
Thus, spoke the commandant of the Dachau concentration camp
December 18th, 2008 at 10:37 amMan, these two are really trying to put a shine on their twenty-ton turd, ain’t they?
This is all fodder for their war crimes trials. They really ought to be keeping their mouths shut.
Dubai? Paraguay? The extradition-treaty-less Maldives Islands? Where will they end up? In the same prison cell, if there is any justice.
December 18th, 2008 at 10:37 amSomeone should remind Dick that this was the oath he swore “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.”
It is pretty clear that what the vice president is to protect is the Constitution. And that he promises to tell the truth. It is apparent to me that Dick has violated this oath and brought shame to his office. He should be prosecuted.
December 18th, 2008 at 10:38 amYes, yes, yes…Congress is Bush and Cheney’s complicit partner.
God d*mn them, every one, for refusing to stop these madmen. For refusing to do their jobs. For refusing to act.
December 18th, 2008 at 10:39 amI like that TP is not mincing words. It’s “torture” not enhanced techniques. (It’s Anti-Choice, not Pro-Life, and so on)
December 18th, 2008 at 10:40 amSo, let’s get him on a plane to Iraq and turn him over to the Iraqis who would think it would be unethical or immoral not to torture the man who has destroyed their country, killed their friends and relatives, and profitted off of their misery… Then let’s see how he feels about torture.
December 18th, 2008 at 10:42 am“I think it would have been unethical or immoral for us not to do everything we could in order to protect the nation against further attacks like what happened on 9/11,” Mr. Cheney said.
Actually, it was unethical & immoral to IGNORE repeated warnings that AQ were going to fly airliners into buildings. You were warned, Dickhead. Incompetence is no excuse for 3,000 people dying, Dickhead. That’s on you & W…may you roast in Hell for eternity.
December 18th, 2008 at 10:43 amBush/Cheney White House group think has morphed into group delusion.
December 18th, 2008 at 10:49 amgoddamn, wrong thread.
too many tabs open in firefox…
December 18th, 2008 at 10:51 amBefore the mouth-breathing troglodyte trolls jump all over the story about 2008 being the coldest year in the last several (but still hotter than the last 50 year average), I’d like to point out the obvious, something that was totally lost on “heat bubble” boy Jason Hendler:
But the climate and the weather are not the same thing: we experience only the weather, which is the day-to-day, sometimes hour-to-hour changes of temperature, precipitation, wind and more. The climate, on the other hand, refers to the cumulative average of the weather around us over decades, centuries and longer.
And the wingnuts response to this? Drool…
December 18th, 2008 at 10:51 amWhy is this guy still walking around free? Who is going to do something about it? Certainly not Bush’s AG or the Justice Department.
December 18th, 2008 at 10:53 amcool, i got “time-warped”!
December 18th, 2008 at 10:53 amOh, and dick, have a look at this:
Career Army officer sues Rumsfeld, Cheney
The following is an interesting paragraph from the above article.
On behalf of retired Army officer April Gallop, California attorney William Veale has filed a civil suit against former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, Vice President Dick Cheney and former US Air Force General Richard Myers, who was acting chairman of the joint chiefs on 9/11. It alleges they engaged in conspiracy to facilitate the terrorist attacks and purposefully failed to warn those inside the Pentagon, contributing to injuries she and her two-month-old son incurred.
December 18th, 2008 at 10:54 amTelling that Cheney leaves out of his ‘oath’ that he was to defend “the Constitution of the United States,” rather than whatever phantasm he holds in his fevered brain.
December 18th, 2008 at 10:59 am“to protect and defend against all enemies foreign and domestic”
Notice how the word “constitution of the United States” does not make it into Cheney’s version of his oath of office. How do you defend the constitution by violating it? You can’t.
December 18th, 2008 at 11:09 amTheir actual duty was to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies – foreign or domestic. He and his president and their minions were the domestic enemies, so I guess it’s understandable why they failed in the job. The true question is what, if anything, will be done about it – especially in light of the gloating that they did the right and morally justifiable thing in tearing up that g-d piece of paper.
December 18th, 2008 at 11:13 amcan we throw him in jail yet? for life.
December 18th, 2008 at 11:21 amThis animal has …
December 18th, 2008 at 11:22 amfacilitated the deaths of nearly 2 million people ,
refuge ed over 4 million ,
tortured ,
kidnapped ,
destroyed the infrastructure of a country whose only real crime was being on Dick’s oil fields leaving millions without adequate electricity or water ,including hospitals ,
orphaned children ,
killed children, parents and siblings ,
wounded several million innocents ,
insured that the injustices done by American foreign policy will become “blowback” in the form of revenge by those offended ,
and made this world much more dangerous for all of us while funnelling billions in no bid contracts to his real constituents , the weapon makers !
Blessed are the peace makers for theirs is the kingdom of heaven , where does that leave you Dick ?
December 18th, 2008 at 11:24 amDNFP Says:
Before the mouth-breathing troglodyte trolls jump all over the story about 2008 being the coldest year in the last several (but still hotter than the last 50 year average), I’d like to point out the obvious, something that was totally lost on “heat bubble” boy Jason Hendler:
December 18th, 2008 at 10:51 am
There are plenty of arguments to counter the trolls.
2008 was still the ninth warmest year on record since 1880, and much of the localized cooling in parts of the planet was due to La Niña.
Also:
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/story/815690.html
December 18th, 2008 at 11:26 amBush/Cheney and co. constitute war criminals. They came to power with the idea of destroying our Goverment and making a mockery of our laws. Torture tops the list of their criminal acts.
December 18th, 2008 at 11:30 amCongress better not let them get away!
So someone remind me why the House of Representatives have not brought impeachment proceedings against these people? What am I missing here?
December 18th, 2008 at 11:42 amThrow his fat ass on the stretching rack, see if he feels the same way.
December 18th, 2008 at 11:49 amI bet I can make him condemn torture, just give me 5 minutes and a blow torch.
December 18th, 2008 at 11:49 ambrown acid; just waterboard the fat phuck.
December 18th, 2008 at 11:56 amI think this is great, he now admits his actions, nobody can say otherwise.
So, let’s send him and the rest to the Hague for their trials.
He and his ilk obviously believe that they have done no wrong. Therefor, they should have no reservations whatsoever about defending their actions and the legality of them at the World Court, and, in reality I would think that like anyone else they should want to defend their honor (ahem, excuse I choked on that one)and clear their names of any suggestion of the heinous crimes that they have committed.
These people are truly sick, and have purposely led us down this rabbit hole of crap. My question is, if they wanted to live such horrible, nasty lives so badly, couldn’t they have just gone there themselves, and left the rest of us alone?
December 18th, 2008 at 12:06 pmHey, Levin, the next thing to do, now that you recognize the problem, is TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Stop talking and do your EFFING JOB.
December 18th, 2008 at 12:12 pmThen I guess it won’t be unethical or immoral for us to torture him.
Stay tuned for further developments.
December 18th, 2008 at 12:19 pmhussein toasterhead (9) has it right about the oath (US Constitution, Art. II, Sec. 1). Sorry, rlintacoma (15) and others, the “all enemies foreign and domestic” is from the military oaths (of enlistment and office — there’s more than one version).
I’m surprised that Cheney thinks he ever swore the military version of the oath, since when it would’ve been his turn to, he had “other priorities”.
December 18th, 2008 at 12:55 pmWhy oh why didnt the the insurgents capture a GI in Iraq and tirture the s**t out of him/her. Teach the monster Cheney that it takes to Tango.
December 18th, 2008 at 1:33 pmIts so kool AmeriKa is sinking its own excesses…storm the Whore (white house) house and congress take your counntry back you dumb f**cks
December 18th, 2008 at 1:35 pmThe stuff that the monster Cheney sanctions goes on routinely in Israeli prisons…Palestinians being the victims at the expense of american taxpayers. God bless the stupid amerika
December 18th, 2008 at 1:41 pm.
R E M E M B E R:
When the president and V.P. order it, that means it’s not illegal…
… YES?
.
December 18th, 2008 at 1:52 pm.
Q U E S T I O N:
If torture produces unreliable results and half of what they know about al-CIA-duh has come through the use of torture, does that make the half they know about as reliable as the half they don’t know? Can the Gov. be so sure?
.
December 18th, 2008 at 1:55 pm.
If America wishes to be known as a nation that tortures,
Then continue to do nothing, America, for that is what you have already achieved.
If America wishes to “change” that model of torturous leadership, then Americans are going to have to start doing something.
.
December 18th, 2008 at 1:59 pmActually,
It is unethical and immoral to provide authority to someone as Cheney that has no conscience to use such granted authority against the people that provided it because he was so greedy for Iraqi oil contracts.
Bush nor Cheney have any interests in democracy. We can see how the profiteering over-rode any democracy building with their anti-Marshall plan in Iraq.
The question for Cheney is, How long before you move out of America to Dubai as to be with your beloved Haliburton?
December 18th, 2008 at 2:08 pmRemember when so many people were mad at Clinton? Wow…
“Officer, by my ethos we are all of spirits with no age or race but plenty of erotic desire, so it would have been unethical for me not to make love to those children… and it was not immoral to free their spirits through physical death.”
December 18th, 2008 at 2:12 pmOfficer Malone: “Okay, makes sense. Cheney said it, right?”
It was unethical and immoral for us not to have prevented the attack of 9/11.
December 18th, 2008 at 3:07 pmI wonder if Cheney has always been so delusional or only since his first heart attack. I understand that it changes people. But I think he has always been this way. It is only since he attached himself to Bush’s form of lunacy, that he is able to give in to his own.
This man is full of the most convoluted logic. That these two Bush and Cheney, could have come together and done what they have done is frightening. In crime there are sometimes two people who meet and become what just one of them might not have been. Sort of a symbiotic relationship. Where only together they become one terrible person. And had they not met, each might have gone on to do no real harm. It is water seeking it’s own level.
To say he is insane is not true of course. But he is a very disturbed man. Trying to explain it to him, would be like trying to describe color to someone without eye sight. He does not have the ability to feel compassion or empathy for anyone. He is unable to place himself in someone else’s place, to try and feel what they might be feeling. Like Bush it is not in his nature to be introspective, or to understand his own nature or failings. This is what makes him so dangerous.
December 18th, 2008 at 4:55 pm“In my mind, the foremost obligation we had from a moral or an ethical standpoint was to the oath of office we took when we were sworn in, on January 20 of 2001, to protect and defend against all enemies foreign and domestic. And that’s what we’ve done,” he said.
Just checking in today, so may be to late to add my comment or someone may have already said this in the other comments, but HERE is the vow the new President makes (as well as the V.P. and all new members of the Congress)
“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
Guess again, Cheney. You, Bush and all those you directed in your administration BROKE this vow.
December 18th, 2008 at 4:56 pmBush is disgusting he doesnt even QUALIFY as a human being. We already KNEW that about Darth Cheney. Obviously these people not ONLY have no shame or sense of decency but they think things become true just because they say them. Delusional is far too tame a word to describe this form of insanity
December 18th, 2008 at 5:40 pmO.K., geniuses. Please cite the U.S. law that was broken by using enhanced interrogation techniques.
Hint… you can’t do it.
December 18th, 2008 at 9:28 pmTim Vaculik Says:
O.K., geniuses. Please cite the U.S. law that was broken by using enhanced interrogation techniques.
Hint… you can’t do it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
My GOD you are ignorant of COURSE I can. The convention against torture statute
http://opencrs.com/document/RL32438/2005-02-10
http://www.amnestyusa.org/war-on-terror/reports-statements-and-issue-briefs/torture-and-the-law/page.do?id=1107981
In 1994, Congress enacted a new federal law to implement the requirements of the Convention against Torture relating to acts of torture committed outside United States territory. This law, which is codified at 18 U.S.C. § 2340 et seq., extends United States criminal jurisdiction over any act of (or attempt to commit) torture outside the United States by a United States national or by an alleged offender present in the United States regardless of his or her nationality. The statute adopts the Convention?s definition of torture, consistent with the terms of United States ratification. It permits the criminal prosecution of alleged torturers in federal courts in specified circumstances. [p. 13]
So the question is do you only post here to show how ignorant you are and that you NEVER know what you are talking about or do you just enjoy making a fool out of yourself?
December 19th, 2008 at 12:02 amI betch a 50cal round would pierce that glass. Right through the melon.
December 19th, 2008 at 8:18 amimpeachcheneythenbush Says:
“In my mind, the foremost obligation we had from a moral or an ethical standpoint was to the oath of office we took when we were sworn in, on January 20 of 2001, to protect and defend against all enemies foreign and domestic. And that’s what we’ve done,” he said.
Just checking in today, so may be to late to add my comment or someone may have already said this in the other comments, but HERE is the vow the new President makes (as well as the V.P. and all new members of the Congress)
“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
Guess again, Cheney. You, Bush and all those you directed in your administration BROKE this vow.
Not BROKE, it is called treason. And TREASON is NOT PARDONABLE. So, all these circle-jerk snickering Republotraitors had better get a backup plan because we are coming. And we are gonna come hard.
5 million on inauguration day surrounding chimp and deadeye. As soon as Obama finishes the oath of office, rush the stage and CITIZEN ARREST THESE FUKERS.
December 19th, 2008 at 8:23 amWhat goes around comes around. Cheney will be on the receiving end of this for eternity as he has a front row seat in hell reservced for him right along side such other sterling examples of humanity like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, et al. He is a true fascist. It just makes it very clear who has really been running the country into the ground the past eight years-Bush is simply a puppet. What a legacy he leaves behind:he has disgraced this country in the eyes of the world. Are we stupid enough to ignore the fact that whenever any of our soldiers or civilians are captured and tortured, we not have a leg to stand on?
December 19th, 2008 at 1:47 pmWEcan now be classed as a rogue nation in the eyes of the world. We have met the enemy and he is US.
December 19th, 2008 at 1:48 pmbravo electo!
December 19th, 2008 at 1:49 pmMoreover this was a sacred oath they violated and GOD WILL NOT FORGET OR FORGIVE!
Sorry alecto for the misspelling.
December 19th, 2008 at 1:52 pmThe blame for what Cheney and Bush have done falls on the voting public for being so stupid as to basically give them a go ahead to do as they please after 9/11, i.e. to violate the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and proceed through fear-mongering to get enough people to swallow their lies and get them re-elected (of course they were NOT elected in 2000). The number of inbred imbeciles that surfaced during this last campaign showed how many neofascists are in this country. What a shame that there is no time machine so we could send them back to where they would be truly at home-Nazi Germany. Those who have supported and condoned the crimes against this country and humanity over the past eight years WILL be held accountable. Loyalty to President and party over that to God and decency will not be forgiven on judgment day! And Osama and company don’t need to attack us again-we are the instrument of our own demise. They and the rest of the world are laughing at us and justifiably so.
December 19th, 2008 at 2:03 pmHe’s counting on a pardon from Bush.
But what he’s not counting on is the law of conspiracy: any act taken in furtherance of a conspiracy is an additional act of conspiracy.
Cheney ordered torture (…or persuaded Boy George to order it…) with the plan of escaping punishment by getting a pardon. This makes a pardon PART of the plan of conspiracy; thus Cheney cannot extinguish his criminal liability for the conspiracy by a pardon (a pardon granted as part of a conspiracy cannot be the object of the pardon itself, since a pardon is only for past actions …not an action taken at the same time as a pardon.)
Never in history has a sovereign pardoned a co-conspirator to a crime; pardons are part of the common law and there is no precedent for a president conspiring with a subordinate to commit a crime with the assurance that the co-conspirator would escape punishment via pardon.
Of course, you need a president with the courage to jail the bastards, something we don’t know if we’ll ever get.
December 19th, 2008 at 6:01 pmDespite the bomb-thrower’s attempt, no one has met my challenge concerning the legality of enhanced interrogation techniques.
Of course torture is illegal, duh!
December 19th, 2008 at 11:04 pmmtflyer,
I assume you are living in Iran, Cuba, North Korea, or perhaps China correct?
No patriotic U.S. citizen would ever utter such utter tripe as you just have.
December 19th, 2008 at 11:07 pmGuess that whole “Hitler thing” passed Cheney by. Since the Holocaust, the greatest ethical realization has been that the greatest good for the greatest number (even when it is _not_ just an excuse for atrocity) must not trump individual inalienable rights.
But well before that, Cheney shames our Founding Fathers — particularly the example George Washington set in the revolution.
I don’t particularly blame the “public”. They believe what they are told. It saddens me that there are so few statesmen of high standing who have the wisdom and courage to take a public stand for what is right and so few media outlets that will give them a voice to broadcast it.
December 21st, 2008 at 12:28 pmWell, well!
It seems that Cheney has a bit of a history of remembering oaths of office in fanciful ways:
Cheney Misstates Military Oath, David R. Henderson, Antiwar.com, June 4, 2007
December 24th, 2008 at 1:42 pmI think we should give all terrorist a big ole teddy bear to sleep with at guantanamo
January 16th, 2009 at 7:51 pmnobody seems to care about the way captured americans are treated by Al Queda…so whats all the fuss about…remember, we are the evil racist imperialist swine…why is it we are the only nation that isnt allowed to torture…I dont get it?
January 17th, 2009 at 12:31 am