Biden on prosecuting Bush officials for torture: ‘I think we should be looking forwards, not backwards.’
By on Dec 21st, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Biden on prosecuting Bush officials for torture: ‘I think we should be looking forwards, not backwards.’
On ABC’s This Week, host George Stephanopoulos asked Vice President-elect Joe Biden whether high-level Bush administration officials should be prosecuted for prisoner abuse. “The questions of whether or not a criminal act has been committed…is something the Justice Department decides,” Biden responded. “That’s a decision I’d look to the Justice Department to make.” While stating he was “not ruling it in and not ruling it out,” Biden underscored that he and Obama are are “focusing on the future.” “I think we should be looking forward, not backwards,” he argued.
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Crimes have been committed. Justice must be served.
December 21st, 2008 at 2:01 pmCan I use that as an excuse after I commit a crime?
“Well, officer, I think we should be looking forward, not backwards.”
…
“Well, that guy raped that woman an hour ago — he’s not raping her now — I think we should be looking forward, not backwards.”
FU BIDEN!
December 21st, 2008 at 2:05 pmBiden on prosecuting Bush officials for torture: ‘I think we should be looking forwards, not backwards.’»
– - Yeah, those pesky Nuremberg trials were SO lengthy and ultimately what lessons were learned?
December 21st, 2008 at 2:06 pm“I think we should be looking forwards, not backwards.”
Indeed. I look forward to the prosecution of these war criminals.
December 21st, 2008 at 2:07 pmWe can, and we must, DO BOTH.
December 21st, 2008 at 2:09 pmI know this isn’t ThinkFast, but this is a must read in relation to this topic… Here is an excerpt.
If Criminal Penalties Are Removed, What Will Deter Lawbreaking by Political Officials?
[...Much more important than punishing murderers or getting caught up in protracted disputes about prior murders is the need to prevent murders from occurring in the future. Therefore, we ought to abandon our quest to impose punishments on people who get caught having murdered someone. To expend resources trying to punish murderers is to squander vital resources on the past, to waste energies that could instead be more productively devoted to preventing future murders.
There are too many important challenges we face to waste time bogged down litigating past murders. Let's allow murderers to go unpunished so that we can move beyond the past and concentrate instead on the more important priority of minimizing the number of murders in the future.]
The ONLY way to move forward effectively is to uphold the law TODAY.
December 21st, 2008 at 2:10 pmJoe the prisons are filled with kids who never had consequences of their actions demonstrated to them Now we plan on allowing heinous actions to go without repercussions Don’t be surprised when some other group of politicians takes this country down the path to destruction
December 21st, 2008 at 2:10 pmGoes to show the different standards in the application of the law and its penalties: If you are commit a petty crime, like drunk driving, or a small theft, you will soon be dragged into a court of law, where you be quickly found guilty and thrown in jail for a few years.
But if you mislead a nation into a war of choice, and order your underlings to commit war crimes -like torture- or you embezzle $50 billion out of your investors in a hedge fund Ponzi scheme, and you will be invited to TV shows to bloviate about the righteousness of said war crimes and/or be given house arrest.
All these so-called white collar crimes hurt hundreds, thousands of families, both in the US and abroad, yet the culprits are free to roam the streets. So much for ‘justice for all’.
December 21st, 2008 at 2:22 pmIf that’s the way they want to be, then in several years we as a country need to rise up and hold them accountable as well for conspiracy and being a party to murder.
They knew/know what laws have been broken, but they refuse to pursue them. That is the same as a person sitting in the car of a get away vehicle. They did not actually rob the bank, but they assisted.
I want this entire country to march onto DC and take our country back. Let’s do as the Constitution states…..
When our government is no longer working, throw it out and start over. Now is the perfect time for “We the People” to do this.
Since no one in Washington wants to do what they took an oath to do, and that is to protect and defend the Constitution the people need to do something.
Even a Constitutional scholar is allowing crimes to continue simply so that someone won’t say that he is only doing this for political reasons. That is BS!!!!
Do it to restore the rule of law to this country and show anyone else thinking of a coup to understand that they will be held accountable like this criminal administration.
If “We the People” continue to allow this, then it is OUR own fault. We need to stage the largest march onto DC this country, or the world, has ever seen.
I would like to see 2 or more million people marching onto the capital, I bet this would make some s$it their pants.
December 21st, 2008 at 2:23 pmIs Biden still the imperial pig, protecting traitorous lying war criminals such as Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld. Impeach the Bush regime traitors, then try them for high treason.
Or maybe Biden is just trying to keep the lid on the boiling pot until Bush and Cheney are officially out of power and are merely private citizens again in late January, 2009…
December 21st, 2008 at 2:23 pmWhat ass hats our politicians are. Why does politics and buck passing always trump law and accountability inside The Beltway. As Thomas Tamm, FISA/DoJ whistle blower and now, former DoJ prosecutor, stated “…when I was a prosecutor, I‘m pretty sure that every criminal case that I prosecuted had happened before I walked into that courtroom and stood before the jury and the judge.”
Without prosecution, the Imperial Presidency continues and the enablers of lawlessness in this Regime and Congress continue unfettered in their pursuit of power personal gain while relegating our feeble Republic to the dust bin.
December 21st, 2008 at 2:26 pmThat is what he actually said.
December 21st, 2008 at 2:28 pmI think there is a lot in that statement that means it can’t really be addressed until the changing of the guard. We will see.
“I think we should be looking forward, not backwards,” he argued.
Sorry, Joe, but by not committing to enforcing Rule of Law, while you may be looking “forward”, you are driving this country ass backwards.
December 21st, 2008 at 2:28 pmHorsesh!t! What’ll we do if it happens again, as it will without punishment for the original offense?
December 21st, 2008 at 2:29 pmPlease, God, no. I am sick and tired of the rich and powerful running this country as if it were their personal property, all of them ignoring the Constitution, the law, and common decency.
And not just running this country, but running it into the ground.
Mr. Biden: We don’t want to hang Mussolini from his heels.
We want open and public review of what has been done by and to America for eight dismal, criminal years. We want accountability. We want justice, and we want our country back. We’ve got to lance the wound to give it a chance to heal, and Americans can stand that.
December 21st, 2008 at 2:30 pmI understand the reluctance to severely divide the nation as would happen if Bush&Co were to be prosecuted. In times as serious as this, we need unitgy not division. BUT
December 21st, 2008 at 2:31 pmHaving said that, our nation stands for nothing if it does not stand for the rule of the law as set forth in the Constitution. Just listen to Cheney today with his total repudiation of the Constitution and his reinterpretation of the power Bush&Co believe rest in the White House, and you can readily see that they have no respect for our foundations, they believe in absolute power – the antithesis of democracy.
They must be punished for these offenses against the Constitution and for their war crimes as well. The Hague can prosecute the war crimes, but we have to see that our laws are upheld.
I don’t know how the Obama administration can accomplish this when at the same time we need everyone on board to restructure our economy before we are irretrievably sunk — but there is no statute of limitations on these offenses.
Perhaps we can spend some time establishing a road to recovery and then deal with the Bush/Cheney crime family.
I bet I been sayin for the last year that nobody in the Bushevik regime would face justice from the Obama one.
Wouldn’t be prudent. There’s NO precedent for it–though since Nixon, at least, there certainly has been ample reason. The reasons in the case of the Chimp and his psychopathic satraps and minions are cumulatively more damning than perhaps any other gang of miscreants to ever run the place.
But to aggressively pursue the departing criminal perps would be counter-”productive” for Mr.O. Doing so would do nothing more than to invite his own ‘examination’ by hostile interests upon his own cessation from power. Any prosecution by the new regime would smack of–would certainly be portrayed by the Busheviks, and their allies–as political payback. The Rightard punditry would scream bloody murder, and they would get LOTS of attention, and the Sisters of Sarah-Cooter will take to the streets with their babies and their bibles clutched to their heaving breasts, and the lap-dog SCUM (So-Called Unbiased Media) will scarf it up like Fido at the catbox…
The next refrain will be, “We have to bind the wounds.”
December 21st, 2008 at 2:37 pmMarie I certainly hope this is the case. It seems that Obama must get the people he wants approved to positions and that will require some cooperation with the senate gop. If they get the sense that Obama is mounting an assult on the gop they will go into obstuctionist mode in a much bigger way than they are now……..
I think a little time will have to pass after Obama gets into office and then an investigation will begin, I have little doubt. Where it goes will tell us much about our future.
December 21st, 2008 at 2:37 pmOur nation does not learn from history.
We allowed Wall Street free rein since the 1970’s and bailed them out for various bubbles, crashes and crimes: no accountability, no change in policy.
We allow our Executive Branch and Intelligence agencies to have a free hand in war crimes and breeches of democracy. After some show trials, hearing and inevitable pardons, the crimes and breeches go on: no real accountability, no change in policy.
We allowed an Imperial Presidency and police/surveillance state to stand in the pinnacles of power. Our complicit Congress has legalized most of these crimes, silently looked away at others, and now the new administration shuffles back and forth hiding behind the looking ahead meme: no accountability, no change in policy is expected.
December 21st, 2008 at 2:40 pmHow do you prosecute any crime at all if you’re looking forward?
Biden is saying NO. The fact that he’s cynically using the language of the campaign to do it is the tragedy here.
December 21st, 2008 at 2:45 pmWe are ruled by the criminal class. Shut up or you’ll be tazered or worse.
December 21st, 2008 at 2:51 pmradhika Says: Our nation does not learn from history.
This is a People who do not believe history guides them. That’s the problem with what’s called “American Exceptionalism.” It is a HIDEOUS national ideology by which American enterprises are elevated ABOVE the fray of ‘normal’ morality or rationality or behavior.
“We” do not learn from history because we deny its existence. “We” write history, and live by the lessons we thereupon transcribe.
Is there an organ or node of the “corpoRat media” which does not relentlessly promote this theme? Is there a curriculum in any school anywhere that does not revolve around that central belief? Is there a church anywhere in America from the pulpit of which you will NOT hear that ‘faith’ relentlessly extolled? Is there an ad for anything from cars to carpet to condoms that does not require that assumption to make the sales pitch comprehensible?
Short answer: No…
December 21st, 2008 at 2:55 pmIndeed Look Forward !!!
You should look forward to seeing many of the same cast of characters in about 20 years. As both the Watergate and Iran-Contra scandals, not to mention the Savings & Loan scandal, have shown that when you do nothing about these criminals, they eventually come back into the government to do it again. Some even become part of the extended government, like Pat Buchannan, who is a trusted media sources doing his best to rewrite history and give praise, or at least pass, to the current in-government criminals.
So by all means, Mr. Biden, do nothing, do absolutely nothing but pass the suffering on to a future generation. After all, you’ll either be gone by then or simply hanging out living off of your fat government checks.
This country would look rather different if everyone connected to Watergate or Iran-Contra were convicted as criminals, given prison time, and removed from both the media and government. Unfortunately stealing billions of tax dollars, trading arms with terrorists, and killing people in foreign countries just can’t hold a candle to getting a blow job.
December 21st, 2008 at 3:01 pmLooking forward, I see dark days ahead if we fail to challenge the criminals that rule this country.
December 21st, 2008 at 3:14 pmJust another sell-out. These sentiments may not be popular on some blogs, but prepare yourself, looks like we will see a long list of sell-outs.
There is absolutely no excuse for not using the change in the White House and congress to re-establish the rule of law. This demands accountability.
Again, we see none.
December 21st, 2008 at 3:24 pmOh I believe the Obama admin will get all the crooks, that is the only way to look forward.
crooks should look forward to the DoJ.
December 21st, 2008 at 3:24 pmHe is nuts. We need to make those that broke the law accountable. If not now, then when? I suppose it has to be convenient to uphold the Constitution. Breaking it isn’t reason enough and the treason of those acts are obviously not serious enough to warrant going to the trouble.
After all it’s only the law. The Constitution and our rights. Hell don’t worry about my rights. I wasn’t using them anyway. Evidently our country cannot do two things at once. Obama cannot work on the problems and protect our rights. Did I hear Obama was a Constitutional lawyer? Just a rumor I guess.
December 21st, 2008 at 3:27 pmNot me!!!!!!
December 21st, 2008 at 3:28 pmI, for one, as so tired of people trying to rationalize the actions of Obama, Biden, and other dems that sell us out.
Somehow, after each and every sell-out, some here want to proclaim it is some type of “plan” and it serves some purpose, and if we just shut-up and let them do what they want, we will somehow end up in a progressive heaven.
There have been too many sell-outs both before and after the fall elections to arrogantly assume that we should not judge dems by their actions because of some fantasy that they really don’t mean what they do.
December 21st, 2008 at 3:31 pmI’ve never liked Biden but after this statement I am sure Obama made a mistake in picking him. Excusing War Crimes is a crime.
December 21st, 2008 at 3:35 pmUnless the next adminstration and congress take actions, the precedents are already set – essentially in stone.
The next president that wants to abuse the constitution and rule of law has a blank check.
Of course, we know that if it is a dem that decides to do it, the repugs will howl and the mainstream media’s noise machine will snap into action.
If a repug does it, they anyone that questions it will be called an obstructionist, unpatriotic, and worse. It will be more of the “with us or against us”.
The dems have sanctioned it all to this point and now biden is indicating that they will take no action – sealing the fate of our democracy.
December 21st, 2008 at 3:35 pmAt the risk of repeating myself; any action taken while Chimpy holds the power to pardon and controls the DOJ is worse than futile.
December 21st, 2008 at 3:41 pmLets compare sellouts shall we? What have the democrats ever done to compare to the sellout of America under the bush admin? Seriously, comparitivly………
I understand the desire for justice and If I had my way it would be just as everyone here has expressed. They would all be going to jail and that would include any dems who are complicit.
But I am not willing to go back to letting the gop run things just because the dems aren’t pushing this right now…..or ever possibly. I still don’t want the republicans running things.
December 21st, 2008 at 3:42 pmOn Jan 20th smart young appointees will show Bush/Cheney how things work. Americans can’t afford a criminal charge but Rice will have no problem with the United Nations taking that hand. Yes folks it will leave way for the USA to go Civil and get our money back. Let’s see if Cheney will be still laughing in his jail cell as Americans get their money back. Remember a good lawyer never let be known what the plan really is.
December 21st, 2008 at 3:46 pmOminous predictions…….sealing the fate of our democracy…
This is what he said:
December 21st, 2008 at 3:48 pm
.
What Joe Biden meant to say was:
.
December 21st, 2008 at 3:49 pmI can’t believe that on a “progressive” blog, some want to make it all about “who sells us out” the most.
What this is about it accountability – having a dialog about what repugs and dems actually DO, not what they say when they want votes.
Dialogs here have nothing to do with whether repugs or dems are the bigger sell out. The repugs don’t expect progressives to vote for them.
The dems do – I voted a straight dem ticket last fall. Now I have a right to share my concerns, especially when it increasingly appears that I was sold a bogus bill-of-goods.
I am willing to give the new administration a chance, but will continue to express my concerns at sites like this. It appears that vast majority on this thread agree we should be concerned.
I won’t accept belittling genuine concern (expressed by the majority here today) by folks that use slight-of-hand to dishonestly trying and make this all about who is the least crooked, corrupt, dishonest, or anti-progressive.
When the dems expect the votes of progressives, then we should have a voice too.
December 21st, 2008 at 3:51 pm“60 Minutes” said the other year that a man in California got 25 years for stealing one slice of pizza! It was his third offence. Someone in Ohio got 20 years for selling two Oxycontin tablets. I’ll bet Levi’s mom doesn’t get that much, and I’ll bet she sold more than two.
We have about 500,000 in prison now for simple possession of drugs? Is that about right? They are not allowed the “look forward” defense.
December 21st, 2008 at 3:53 pm.
Let this be proof that in America, everyone is NOT equal under the rule of law. We have a two tier system of justice…
… One for the common folk and none for the elite.
The myth of America is a lie!
… All created equal, my ass!
.
December 21st, 2008 at 3:56 pmthe only way to “look forward” is to admit crimes were committed and punish those resposible who committed these crimes under my flag, in my name. that’s the only way this country will ever have a future where were have regained our moral standing in this world.
December 21st, 2008 at 3:56 pmNo one is doing that Joe, you just use that to take everyone’s credbility away except yours. I respect the attention to detail and the fact that we have this place to exchange perspectives but you yourself said this:
When in reality, he said no such thing. This is what the man said.
In my opinion, your tactics are as dishonest as any republican when you do such things to give relevance to your points……just sayin.
Flame away my friend, I’m leaving you with it.
Have a great day all……..
December 21st, 2008 at 4:00 pm.
So, I CAN become a war criminal and commit crimes against the State as long as I become the President and Vice President of the USA because once there, Congress will refuse to look back.
.
December 21st, 2008 at 4:00 pmWith all due respect, another Joe, are you aware of the fact that Obama/Biden have yet to assume office? Are you aware of the fact that the new Congress has yet to be sworn in? I fail to see what you would have them do when they have no authority. Plus, as Sen. Biden said, it’s not up to them anyway.
December 21st, 2008 at 4:02 pmPointing out:
1. Most people here are concerned about this.
2. The “rule of law” demands that people be held accountable. Most people here also seem to concur.
3. When the dem party expects liberals and progressives to vote for them, we should have a voice.
4. If we don’t have a voices on issues within the administration or cabinet, then blogs like this are a an appropriate place to express our concerns. Most here seem to agree.
5. I have not used your name in any posts yet today, fred, because I am not speaking directly to you, about your comments specifically – I SCROLL PAST YOUR POSTS.
You have shown me to be a stalker that flames and baits, so please don’t flatter yourself. I do not even read what you post but did notice you continue to call me out.
And I am sure you will now stalk me from thread to thread, like you do every other weekend.
December 21st, 2008 at 4:07 pmyes pete – am aware that no one has been sworn in. Thanks for asking – course, it isn’t just me that is concerned or disappointed here, is it.
No, they are not in office yet, but that makes it even more curious that biden sees a need to make direct and fairly clear statements that we will not see the “accountability” that was once a core-issue of the campaign.
But like I said above – you can rationalize this all away if you want. Some of us are concerned – the majority of comments today express concern.
What they say now, before they officially take office does matter, but pretend it doesn’t if you prefer.
Gratefully, most here are not buying into that.
December 21st, 2008 at 4:11 pmHans Blix is ready to testify.
http://www.democrats.com/hans-blix-would-testify-against-bush-cheney-war-crimes
December 21st, 2008 at 4:13 pmMark my word, nothing will be done.
December 21st, 2008 at 4:16 pmPointing out:
1. Your posts don’t reflect an understanding of our concern.
2. “The rule of law” doesn’t give the President, or Vice President, Elect the power to prosecute political rivals.
3. I frequently offer my thoughts to my Representative and both my Senators, though I’m not technically a “progressive” or “liberal”, and they at least answer my correspondence.
4. Since the administration and cabinet have yet to assume power, it’s a bit premature to assume how receptive they’ll be to input.
5. Irrelevant.
December 21st, 2008 at 4:18 pmWell, look at the bright side, you guys can always hope they’lll be indicted at the Hague.
They won’t be, but you can keep hoping for it.
December 21st, 2008 at 4:26 pm“Mark my word, nothing will be done.”
That’s apologist talk. Keep saying that and give comfort to war criminals they love you for it.
December 21st, 2008 at 4:26 pmctalk – the only thing they love more is when the incoming administration starts to signal they won’t do boo – even before they take their oath of office.
“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
And biden is lowering expectations already…
December 21st, 2008 at 4:30 pmThere seem to be crimes too big to prosecute. Look to the past in cases such as Pinochet, Pol Pot, Richard Nixon. Or to the present-day bailouts.
Joe is merely restating the assumed logic of the Beltway Consensus. What’s good for the former Soviet Union is good enough for us.
December 21st, 2008 at 4:32 pmI agree with Biden in principle – the new administration should concentrate on fixing things all right, like the Dep. of Justice in particular for a start, so that procecuting the law will be once again be possible. yaah!
December 21st, 2008 at 4:36 pmGerald Ford’s misguided pardon of Richard Nixon is another example of how terribly wrong Biden is. No healing occurs when justice is ignored–quite the contrary. We can’t move safely forward until we’ve taken care of the past. Like most commenters, I see little or no political will to make things right this time, so one assumes the disease will fester and strike again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i_vquVDPgU
December 21st, 2008 at 4:36 pmctalk Says
“That’s apologist talk…”
It’s certainly not intended as that, your perspective notwithstanding. Nothing will be done. There is no modern American historical example of such excesses being tried.
December 21st, 2008 at 4:37 pm“There seem to be crimes too big to prosecute.”
oddly enough, this doesn’t seem to be of the same scope of nuremberg and we managed to prosecute those crimes fairly efficently and fairly.
I am so tired to this “too big” logic we’ve been force fed lately.
December 21st, 2008 at 4:38 pmCheck this out – Asked To Name Highest Moment In Office, Cheney Comes Up With ‘9/11′
Nothin’ like a false-flag attack to enable a dictator. The folks behind dur chimpfurher learned their lessons well from the great dictators of the past, such as adolph hilter and his false-flag attack on the reichstag.
I bet little dicky cheney got high…
December 21st, 2008 at 4:38 pmAnd, for the record “apologist talk” is:
“a person who makes a defense in speech or writing of a belief, idea, etc.”
I certainly did not, and do not defend what I see as illegal and immoral, I’m just saying that nothing will be done.
But thanks for the knee jerk anyways
December 21st, 2008 at 4:40 pmBozo The Neoclown – I am also tired of it, especially when it gets crammed down our throats by people that claim to be “liberal” or “progressive.”
December 21st, 2008 at 4:40 pmBush hasn’t committed any crimes. Why waste time going after him or his team?
December 21st, 2008 at 4:54 pmyeah, arco – just like cheney said today, if the pResident does it, it can’t be illegal.
December 21st, 2008 at 5:06 pmI don’t understand why Thinkprogress nor the commenters haven’t acknowledged this for what it is but I will give it a go. Joe Biden is going to be the next VP after Cheney and he has gone on record as saying that Cheney has been the most dangerous VP in history because of his overreach. At least two times in the interview Biden pointed out that a decision ot prosecute would be up to the Justice Dept. If he was really dead set against it he would have said no. All he is doing is affirming that he doesn’t have that responsibility. You would think that after having 8 years of Cheney we would be welcoming a VP who doesn’t want to control a different branch of government which in fact would go against the Constitution.
We truly can’t win anything as Democrats because we still have a loser’s mentality looking for controversy when there is none.
December 21st, 2008 at 5:08 pmarco Says:
“Bush hasn’t committed any crimes. Why waste time going after him or his team?”
other than waging a pre-emptive war? you nutt huggers are a special breed
December 21st, 2008 at 5:09 pmsgwhitefla – nice tray, sounds like wingnut spin. Biden did not just say that he didn’t have the power to do anything because it was not within the VP’s authority.
He could have left it at that – clearly he did not.
The “forward not backward” statement was a reflection of what the expect to do. Yes, Obama can provide leadership in these areas – joe is implying that they won’t.
Come to think of it, isn’t the “forward not backward” statement the exact same thing bill clinton said about iran/contra?
Geee, look what that got him.
December 21st, 2008 at 5:11 pmObama and Biden could do both if they really wanted to. They say over and over it is up to the Justice Department to pursue, but Obama has to give the directive for the Justice Department to investigate. Since Obama and Biden wouldn’t want to be seen as tampering the investigation, what kind of additional work would they be doing other than giving the directive to investigate?
December 21st, 2008 at 5:15 pmCynical predictions like “nothing will be done” only give comfort to these horrendous criminals. That’s all I am saying. If supposed progressives and Dems had more balls they would avoid saying things like this and instead focus on what needs to be done to bring them to justice. There’s plenty of complicit Dems who have enabled this war pig the last 8 years, Biden being the next one on my list of lilly livered apologists.
December 21st, 2008 at 5:16 pmummmmmmmm….
ctalk……
All we can do is talk when the folks that are suppose to be in charge balk. It’s about maintaining an open dialog and holding the folks with d’s after their name responsible for their rhetoric and action.
Today, biden gave much more comfort to the criminal cabal in the White House than anyone that posts on these blogs.
December 21st, 2008 at 5:20 pmAgreed Another Joe, and this one really bugs me. On the other hand Biden plans a much lower key vice presidency than Dick Cheney so this may not matter much if public pressure on Obama grows.
December 21st, 2008 at 5:34 pmYou know, if they aren’t going to do anything, they should at least publicly state why: “we aren’t going to prosecute because they weren’t Nazis torturing and killing Jews (and gays) in the millions, they were Americans torturing and killing Muslims in the hundreds. And 9/11 excuses everything.”
December 21st, 2008 at 5:40 pmYes, Mr. Vice President-elect Biden, we should be looking forward — forward to prosecuting the offenders. Because the offenders are looking forward to recommitting their crimes, and future officeholders shouldn’t receive the peace of mind that they. too, can get away with subverting the constitution.
December 21st, 2008 at 5:42 pmBoth political parties, DemoRats and RePugniScums, are fascist, corporate sell outs that hate the American people and democracy. Phuck both parties hard and often!
December 21st, 2008 at 5:46 pmYou would think after 8 years of Treason and Crimes Against Humanity this next administration:
We could all look forward to, at long last, a return to the rule of law.
But. We’re left wondering. How disappointing.
December 21st, 2008 at 5:47 pmI’m looking forwards. Forwards to prosecuting the bastards.
December 21st, 2008 at 5:47 pmDon’t forget: Mr. Biden himself was one of the biggest cheerleaders for the Iraq War.
December 21st, 2008 at 5:53 pmThe Cheney administration will all walk free on 20 Jan 09 and never look back.
/no prosecutions, charges, etc.
December 21st, 2008 at 5:53 pm//probably “not on the table”
Clearly, accountability has no part in this country anymore. The constitution is just a suggestion and taken mildly at best. Laws are for the weak and underprivileged.
December 21st, 2008 at 6:10 pmI can’t wait till we take this government back, but Obama is just a step in the right direction. Without accountability for those who so willingly commit murder, treason, embezzlement, and corruption, there is no hope that things we’re ever going to get the CHANGE we expect.
WTF? I missed the part where Biden, or anyone else in the incoming administration, has said; “we don’t intend to investigate/prosecute” or “we will block investigations/prosecutions” or “we intend to cover for criminals” or anything of that sort.
Outside of two occupations, a crumbling economy, and nearly unprecedented division of our society, the first job for Obama’s administration will be fumigating the DOJ and getting rid of Bushbots in appointed positions. I fail to see how announcing policy, re. who will be investigated/prosecuted, works to their, or our, advantage.
And, once again, the President and VP don’t have the authority to prosecute political rivals or predecessors. Before they even take office the only action they could conceivably take is to make a “citizen’s arrest” of some sort.
December 21st, 2008 at 6:23 pm#82, pete,
My dream…
Obama is sworn in on 1/20/09 (party time) and just after he says I do to the oath of office, he turns to GW Botch and Dick(head) Chainsaw and says, “Turn around and place your hands on your head. You are both under arrest.”
December 21st, 2008 at 6:33 pmrepublicans hate facts Says
December 21st, 2008 at 3:27 pm
This explains Pelosi’s enthusiasm for Obama during the primaries… It’s pretty obvious this was planned long before the election and was part of securing the support of Reid/Pelosi who have no interest in making the republicans pay…
____________________________________________________________
Are you suggesting that Hillary Clinton would have nailed these thugs to the wall if she had been elected? If so, can you provide any supporting evidence? Such as any quote from her where she says anything like “crimes have been committed in this administration and when I am elected I will see that justice is served”?
December 21st, 2008 at 6:35 pmA beautiful dream, dixie blood, but the President doesn’t have that authority. Unless, of course, he were to try exploiting Bushco’s policies and declare them “enemy combatants”. I have a feeling that the GOP lawyers would dismantle that argument in about a second.
December 21st, 2008 at 6:38 pmAnother Joe
So your view is that the Vice President should tell the Justice Departement what to do? I wonder what you would have thought if the Bush Administration wanted yes men at the Justice Department. Oh wait, thats right they did, and they purged all of the USAs that weren’t republican enough for them. Well I guess that means that out of all things you want Bush and Cheney prosecuted for politicizing the Justicie Dept couldn’t be one of them
Could it?
Do you really expect for Biden to come out banging a drum that they are going to prosecute Bush when he has no authority to do so? Its funny how many “betrayals” the Obama administration has perpetrated on the people of America before they have even stepped foot in office. Like I said Democrats simply don’t know how to win.
December 21st, 2008 at 6:40 pm#81, nycbassist,
Electric or standup? Style?
I’ve never played a standup bass. I play a Ric…
Happy Holidays…
December 21st, 2008 at 6:40 pm#85, pete,
Couldn’t he just be reading from an arrest warrant from a district or state court with the DC police and FBI in tow?
December 21st, 2008 at 6:47 pmI hope that progressives don’t stage their own “preventive war” against the Obama Administration because it looks like they might have the intent to act like the Bush Administration.
I want investigation into a number of actions by members of the Bush Administration. I also want this country led out of its current fiasco in Iraq, recovery from the economic recession, restoration of diplomatic ties and alliances, etc. Obama’s priorities and mine in terms of what gets done and when probably will never match 100%. Even if they did, then Obama’s priorities and those of another progressive may not line up perfectly. We cannot all insist on being “dictator citizens” by demanding our own way and completely rejecting any politician who does not fall lock-step in line with us.
December 21st, 2008 at 6:48 pmI truly believe that Obama will do the right thing when it comes to prosecuting those who have committed crimes. That’s why he is putting Holder in as AG. And I think that the need to prosecute should come from the AG and not the President. Because if Obama leads the charge, he will be accused of being vindictive and partisan. If Holder does thorough investigations and uncovers crimes and recommends prosecution, then Obama can’t be accused of being vindictive.
I also don’t think he should do anything right out of the starting gate. He is going to have enough trouble getting enough Republicans to go along with a stimulus package, he doesn’t need to start out his presidency by declaring war on the Republicans. Let’s give it some time folks. The statute of limitations doesn’t run out for 8 years.
December 21st, 2008 at 6:52 pmJosephNobles Says:
How do you prosecute any crime at all if you’re looking forward?
Biden is saying NO. The fact that he’s cynically using the language of the campaign to do it is the tragedy here.
I disagree with you. I think that both Obama and Biden are trying to keep the lid on the pressure cooker until such time as they have solved a few of our immediate problems. He can’t do that without the support of at least some Republicans. They are not going to support Obama if he comes out with guns blazing.
Also, the more the Republicans keep up their “investigations” into Obama’s supposed wrongdoing like palling around with Blago, the more likely it is that Obama will eventually go after them for their crimes.
December 21st, 2008 at 6:57 pmDixie blood.
Even in that scenario I believe that the execution of a warrant would require a law enforcement official to make the arrest. I don’t recall ever seeing where the President has a power of arrest not shared by ordinary citizens.
December 21st, 2008 at 6:58 pmdixie blood Says:
My dream…
Obama is sworn in on 1/20/09 (party time) and just after he says I do to the oath of office, he turns to GW Botch and Dick(head) Chainsaw and says, “Turn around and place your hands on your head. You are both under arrest.”
Nice dream Dixie, but if he were to do that we can kiss this country goodby because Obama would be guaranteeing that the Republicans will oppose him in everything he tries to do.
Can’t we just give it a rest, let Obama take office and clean up a few messes before we start pressuring him to go after the Bush Crime Family. Are the Democrats once again going to turn into a circular firing squad? Haven’t we learned anything yet?
December 21st, 2008 at 7:01 pmAt heart, all of these folks, including The One, are just politicians. Did anyone really expect anything other than “Nothing to see here, folks. Move along”?
December 21st, 2008 at 7:09 pmBilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
I truly believe that Obama will do the right thing when it comes to prosecuting those who have committed crimes. That’s why he is putting Holder in as AG.
BOGGLE!?!?!
Yeah, as long as your last name isn’t Rich and you don’t make massive contributions to the Clintons, Holder is a real Elliot Ness.
December 21st, 2008 at 7:19 pmBilbo say,”Nice dream Dixie, but if he were to do that we can kiss this country goodby…”
This country is already “goodby” [sic]. It’s now time to correct the situtation and punish the wrong doers. It is also time to set an example to the rest of the world that we GIVE A SHIT!! Crimes are crimes goddamn it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
December 21st, 2008 at 7:30 pmIF THE USA IS SERIOUS ABOUT RESTORING ITS INTERNATIONAL IMAGE. TO HEAL THE WOUNDS INFLICTED IN THE PAST 8 YEARS, IS MUST PROSSECUTE THE WAR CRIMINALS: BUSH, CHENNEY, RICE, POWELL, GATES, NEGROPONTE, PERLE, WOLFOWITZ, FEITH, AND ALL THE REST OF THOSE CROOKS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE THE FIASCO IN THE MIDDLE EATS. THE ONES RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ATROUCIOUS RESPONSE TO KATRINA. AND REALLY INVESTIGATE AND REVEAL THE TRUTH OF 9/11. ANYTHING MOVING AWAY FROM THIS IS CUMPLICITY!
December 21st, 2008 at 7:35 pmsacopenapa Says:
Well then, my McFriend, you will never live in a USA that in your mind has a restored image because that simply isn’t going to happen.
Ye Gods, I will be so happy when Obama is President and we can quit talking about Bushco being indicted, here, in the Hague or anywhere else. It isn’t going to happen – get used to it.
As to the “truth” about 911…you are welcome on planet Earth any old time.
December 21st, 2008 at 7:46 pmMaybe Obama is playing his cards close to the chest. I’d act bland and unconcerned in his position.
Maybe the evening of Jan 20 Cheney & his lil’ pals will find themselves in cuffs on their way to a Federal prison.
One can dream.
December 21st, 2008 at 7:52 pmSuppose Eric Holder can’t pass muster in the Senate (a possibility) and K. Kennedy loses out in the Senate appointment bid.
Any chance K. Kennedy could be AG? Just a thought, her Uncle would certainly be proud.
December 21st, 2008 at 7:53 pmThat should be C. Kennedy, as in Caroline.
December 21st, 2008 at 7:53 pmThe more things change, the more they remain the same.
December 21st, 2008 at 8:00 pmIn other words, the fix is in.
What, may I ask, was Biden supposed to say? Personally, I don’t think it would be wise for him to say, “lawyer up guys, we’re making your prosecution our first priority“.
December 21st, 2008 at 8:31 pmBefore freaking out about the One part of his statement, don’t forget, what he also said – that it is in fact up to the Justice Dept. and that he’s ‘not ruling it in or out’.
December 21st, 2008 at 8:36 pmOne striking thing is that (almost) this entire page is Unanimous! There seems to be a groundswell of this opinion, and those seeking Accountability ‘for a Change’.
Don’t get stuck in thinking it can’t be done.
We must call our Senators and Congressional Reps and keep the pressure on them!
At the very least there must be investigations, as Cheney continues his ‘victory lap’, bragging about Impunity.
They circle like Yaks, don’t they?
December 21st, 2008 at 8:37 pm.
Joe Biden said:
… Then how do you know what kind of “CHANGE” is needed for America?
.
December 21st, 2008 at 8:52 pm.
Dear Joe Biden,
A “CHANGE” from what if you’re not willing to look from where you’ve been?
.
December 21st, 2008 at 8:54 pmI think we should follow Santayana. We need to learn or we will repeat this sorry episode.
December 21st, 2008 at 9:04 pm#98 Keltoi at Night Says:
First, I bet that is what all those officers said regarding the Nazi trials…….
Second, the “truth” about 9/11 is on planet earth it’s just that you live so far out in space that you can’t see it with the hubble.
If several countries pushed for it, then there would be trials and they would be convicted……. They pushed a war against the Genieva Convention, the UN Charter, and US laws. They have NO LEG TO STAND ON!!!!!
For 9/11, there is more evidence to support the fact that Bush Co performed or LET it happen to get what they wanted. Either way……. That is TREASON!
December 21st, 2008 at 9:18 pmThe busheviks are gonna get off scott free.
Obama cannot prosecute them because if he did, he’d be setting himself to be prosecuted at the end of his term–on authentic or spurious grounds, it would no longer matter, but it would certainly happen. He’s not gonna do it.
December 21st, 2008 at 9:22 pmhelenahandbasket Says:
I think we should follow Santayana. We need to learn or we will repeat this sorry episode.
December 21st, 2008 at 9:04 pm
The USofA is a History-averse culture.
We act as though we are immune to history, that it’s lessons do not apply to us, because of our exceptionality. America believes itself the “chosen” of the New Testament just as the Jews were the ‘chosen’ of the Old…
December 21st, 2008 at 9:26 pmfunkmonkey Says:
First, I bet that is what all those officers said regarding the Nazi trials…….
Nazi non-sequiter, anyone?
Second, the “truth” about 9/11 is on planet earth it’s just that you live so far out in space that you can’t see it with the hubble.
Riiiight….as in, the Hubble Space Telescope that proves we never landed on the Moon, but we do have alien bodies at Roswell and we know JE Hoover killed Kennedy?
If several countries pushed for it, then there would be trials and they would be convicted……. They pushed a war against the Genieva Convention, the UN Charter, and US laws. They have NO LEG TO STAND ON!!!!!
Several countries won’t. There is no I in Geneva. Saddam violated endless UN resolutions and Congress gave Bush authority to go to war, including our new VP and Secretary of State.
Anything else?
For 9/11, there is more evidence to support the fact that Bush Co performed or LET it happen to get what they wanted. Either way……. That is TREASON!
December 21st, 2008 at 9:31 pmCynical predictions like “nothing will be done” only give comfort to these horrendous criminals.
Russell, i think it was, who said (paraphrasing) the capacity for close observation and careful an_alysis is often regarded as ‘cynicism’ by those who possess neither.
December 21st, 2008 at 9:34 pm113,
Amen brother!
December 21st, 2008 at 9:41 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
Nazi non-sequiter, anyone?
Many Generals and lower enlisted thought that they would walk free from any convictions because they were “only doing what they were ordered”. I don’t expect a person with such a simple mind to understand that!!!
Riiiight….as in, the Hubble Space Telescope that proves we never landed on the Moon, but we do have alien bodies at Roswell and we know JE Hoover killed Kennedy?
No….. Like your so far out in space with the notion that Bush and Cheney had nothing to do with 9/11 that you could not even see the truth with the hubble. Man talk about dense!
Several countries won’t. There is no I in Geneva. Saddam violated endless UN resolutions and Congress gave Bush authority to go to war, including our new VP and Secretary of State.
So what if Saddam violated UN resolutions….. Congress gave Bush the authorization ONLY after he was to go back to the UN for authorization!!!! He never did because he was spying on the members and knew that they would not approve it. So he went it alone, and against the AUMF.
Anything else?
Yes….. Your a mindless babbling right winger who could not see the “truth” if Cheney shot you in the face with it.
December 21st, 2008 at 9:47 pmIt is simple. Joe “I Am A Zionist” Biden will have war crimes fingers pointing his way.
Didn’t Rahm Emmanual and Joe Biden push hard for war with Iraq AND……….did not Biden stop Scott Ritter from testifying to Congress around the lack of WMD in Iraq?
Naw, I must be thinking of some Right Wing Neocons!
December 21st, 2008 at 9:50 pmThe criminal class is above the law and they take what they want and do what they want. So shut up and pay your insurance bill or you’ll wish you had.
December 21st, 2008 at 9:52 pmTo what sort or precipice or impending chaos must we be delivered before we relearn the lesson of what it means to be a nation of laws and consequences for those who flaunt them?
Eveidently we’ve not yet learned the lesson and that means that we are still in for a world of self-inflicted hurt.
December 21st, 2008 at 9:56 pmBush needs to be prosecuted, the demand is huge and growing. I don’t expect Bush apologists, morons and thugs to understand that.
December 21st, 2008 at 9:59 pm“Bush needs to be prosecuted, the demand is huge and growing. I don’t expect Bush apologists, morons and thugs to understand that.”
Was there a point?
December 21st, 2008 at 10:07 pmWe hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
Excerpt from the Declaration of Independence.
It’s amazing how relevant this document is to this day. Maybe we’ll soon awaken to realize it’s importance and put it to good use once again.
December 21st, 2008 at 10:27 pmThis comment by Biden completely pisses me off, mainly because it is so damn stupid. Taking this lame ass comment to its logical conclusion would mean that we could never prosecute ANYONE for ANY crimes as they are all, by their very nature, in the past. Nazi war criminals, just your luck, that was in the past. Serial killers….we’re looking forward.
I honestly never thought/think Bush and Cheney would ever be prosecuted by the new administration or the US Congress, my only hope is them living like scared pigs like Kissinger afraid to travel somewhere and end up like Pinochet, but for god sakes don’t say something so dumb and offensive.
December 21st, 2008 at 10:40 pmDear Joe,
Fu ck You and your “looking forwards.” The US ‘celebrates’ their ‘christianity’ while innocent people are rotting in your jails and others, many children, are being blown to bits for lies. Lies that should be answered for, you b@stard!
God dam your boardroom bromides. Fu ck You.
December 21st, 2008 at 10:52 pmThat type of response from Biden is so reminiscent of Pelosi and her off-the-table-do-nothing-congress. America has been severely wounded by Bush and Cheney. Prosecute,jail, and execute is the mandate!
December 21st, 2008 at 10:56 pmThere will be such an avalanche of disclosures about Bush/Cheney administration criminal acts committed during their eight apocalyptic years in office, that will be revealed in the first months (days?) of the Obama/Biden administration, that only a complete fool (an un-American, anti-Constitution fool) would turn a blind eye to all these Republican criminal acts.
Oh, wait, the Blue Dog Democrats have been in league with the culture of corruption, deceit, greed and murder Republicans for over twenty years, making the Blue Dog Democrat bloc actually a branch of the Republican Party and not the Democratic Party.
So it’s a toss-up what will happen in the legal, legislative and Justice Department realms of our formerly democratic government, but I expect a tsunami of revelations next year about exactly how corrupt and criminal the last eight years have actually been, with unleashed whistle-blowers seeking out people to tell their story.
Of course, their stories about Republican criminality will have to compete with all the horror stories about the Republican-caused economic crisis, but I’m certain the internet, and excellent blogs like Think Progress, will be able to handle the workload. Only until the last slime-covered Republican stone from the most corrupt eight years in American history is turned over, and what’s underneath exposed to sunshine, will we be able to finally bury the Bush administration, a burial it so richly deserves, even though seven years and 15 trillion dollars too late.
Weep even more for our nation’s children if the criminal Republicans aren’t held accountable.
December 21st, 2008 at 11:02 pmI must be confused.
December 21st, 2008 at 11:07 pmIs there some sort of statute of limitations on war crimes ?
Bush’s legacy: PNAC’s Pearl Harbor 9-11, a phony war on terror, genocide of millions of Middle Easterners for lucrative oil contracts, the destruction of the US economy, the lowest approval ratings of anyone since Nixon who resigned in disgrace. A man people called Chimpy, a rethuglican who used fear tactics on his populace, who once joked he should be a dictator. A neo-facist who took away citizen’s civil liberties, and above all a War Criminal who invaded a country who never did anything to the US, brutally killed innocent people and repeatedly lied to try to cover it up. Hopefully history has yet to record his imprisonment for war crimes and possible execution.
December 21st, 2008 at 11:13 pmWhy is Kissinger still sucking air and carrying his puss gut around? At least the mass-murderer Reagan is dead, but no thanks to any system of Justice. Death and Crime seems to be the policy of the USA. Cheney. Bush. Rumsfeld. Gonzolas. Rice. ad nauseum. One Million civilians dead.
December 21st, 2008 at 11:24 pmMr. Biden seemed very neutral and evasive.
December 21st, 2008 at 11:31 pmIf there are any plans for prosecution, it certainly won’t be backed by president-elect Obama or Biden
I don’t buy this stuff – we have a Justice Department to do a complete job, not selective prosecution based on political choices. Most of the Bush criminals came out of the Nixon White House. If we don’t enforce our laws, the traitorous ones and their followers will rise again and again. I want our justice system to protect us from our own government if that is where the crime is. We can’t look the other way because of the expediency of ignorance.
December 21st, 2008 at 11:51 pmI still haven’t found any news, written or video, where Biden said “we don’t intend to investigate/prosecute”. Though I’m pretty sure that every politician in the country has said they “are looking forward, not back”. In fact, I’m pretty sure that it would be in the top ten non-answers along with “when I’m elected I’ll fight for you” and “I love this country”.
December 21st, 2008 at 11:52 pmLook at the level the discussion has devolved to: everyone knows many many many too many laws have been repeatedly broken, some capital,some deserving at least life sentences and people are discussing this?
December 22nd, 2008 at 12:04 amAre there any options other than investigate, prosecute and jail?
Watch out what you buy into and look at where this type dicussion started.
Who ever interjected anything but upholding the law?
Remember, the talk shows and their usual trained toys and the media in general either begin this type dialog or sustain it.
Thinking people don’t.
Keltoi at Night Says:
Maybe it wont happen but it SHOULD. The powerful always seem to be willing to overlook and cover for other powerful people just in case they need it but Bush’s crimes go far beyond the pale. He SHOULD spend the rest of his life in prison. For lying to start a war. For that alone if the Nuremberg precedent was applied he would be hanged. For torture. Whether it happens or not he SHOULD be handcuffed and frogmarched to the Hague and stand trial for his warcrimes. Not only so it will give the NEXT president who hasnt got a shred of decency pause before HE does the same thing but for the sake of justice itself. It is disgusting that the powerful can just sneer at the law and arrogantly ignore it. I say let justice be done though the heavens fall.
December 22nd, 2008 at 12:12 amRemember what happened to Wellstone. We don’t need sudden deaths.
Obama/Biden don’t need to say anything now or do it themselves… a real Justice Department, like he said. They just need to support someone making a move.
Should a President handle Presidential oversight, even of a preceding admin.? It seems wrong.
Oh, Congress. WAKE UP! Rep. Kucinich has your morning coffee and paper, read the articles.
December 22nd, 2008 at 12:14 amSpeak softly and have a no-name attorney Rottweiler carry the big stick.
December 22nd, 2008 at 12:25 amIf chimpy and his gang won’t stop the barrage of crime I look forward to more of this this and this.
December 22nd, 2008 at 1:39 amwrong answer joe, you suck—worthless cowards all!
Political language. . . is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind.
December 22nd, 2008 at 1:44 amGeorge Orwell
President-ELECT Obama hasn’t served one day as President.
I will wait and see what his cabinet does with these crooks. I doubt seriously he will let them ride.
So get off his f9cking back.
December 22nd, 2008 at 2:21 amThe right wingers of America will always argue that Americans don’t like the idea of impeachment because they don’t have the stomach for it. Huh? Then how come the republicans in Illinois were quick to want to impeach Democratic Governor Blagojevich? Oh that’s right! Impeachments & trials are only reserved for Democrats. Spit. Jerks.
I say….BRING ON THE ARRESTS, TRIALS, AND IMPRISONMENT against the Bush Regime!
December 22nd, 2008 at 6:33 amBeing an asswipe for a bunch of neocon terrorists Is NOT change I can believe in, Joe.
December 22nd, 2008 at 7:10 amGame of Life Says:
President-ELECT Obama hasn’t served one day as President.
I will wait and see what his cabinet does with these crooks. I doubt seriously he will let them ride.
So get off his f9cking back.
We will see, won’t we? The only predictions that can be made are Obama’s votes and cabinet picks. Those speak for themselves.
And no, we will NOT get off of his back. Left-Wing Neocons need to be watched ever more carefully than right wing Neocons.
December 22nd, 2008 at 7:13 amBrain From Planet Arous Says:
We will see, won’t we? The only predictions that can be made are Obama’s votes and cabinet picks. Those speak for themselves.
And no, we will NOT get off of his back. Left-Wing Neocons need to be watched ever more carefully than right wing Neocons.
A noble sentiment, except that you seem to have already made up your mind about Obama, by saying his picks speak for themselves.
Need I remind you how much flack “we” gave to Ashcroft, about being a right-wing shill? Yet when the chips were down, he made a constitution-protecting decision, by standing with Comey. That act was totally out of character with what we know of Ashcroft’s, but if he can do that, your comments about what any Obama pick will do, seem horribly premature, and not particularly apt.
So why don’t you take a break from criticizing his picks – unless you’re just setting up an “I told you so” moment, which is just cynical.
Every time I read you criticising Obama’s picks, I’m going to bring up Ashcroft.
December 22nd, 2008 at 7:30 ambarfly – get real, the net effect of ashcrofts supposed “stand” was ZERO!!!!!
Not only did he not stop the continued law breaking, but he hasn’t helped anyone be brought to justice either.
Maybe a “hero” in your book, but not in most – flame away brother…
December 22nd, 2008 at 8:02 amBiden is exactly right - its the role of the Justice Dept. to look in those matters.
I luv ya Joe however, after eight-years of failed leadership under George W. (can’t walk and chew gum at the same time) Bush any notion that this great country of ours will skirt its duty and not hold those accountable for crimes against its people WILL NOT BE TOLERATED !
December 22nd, 2008 at 8:12 amIf we don’t hold the the Bush administration accountable, there’s absolutely nothing that will prevent future leaders from believing that they also are above the law. It’s an invitation to tyranny.
Alas, there appears to be no political will in Washington to appoint a special prosecutor for the Bushies’ crimes, so the only way we’re going to get what justice requires is if we demand it. We need a groundswell of support for this. Write to your representatives and insist.
Write to change.gov and insist that this is the only way to get change we can believe in. Go to change.org (http://www.change.org/ideas/view/appoint_a_special_prosecutor_for_the_crimes_of_the_bush_administration) and vote for appointing a special prosecutor for the Bush administration. Go to Democrats.com and sign the petition. Then ask all your friends to do the same.
It’s grassroots action or no action at all.
December 22nd, 2008 at 10:31 amAside from the occasional digression, lets keep it in perspective that the great majority of posts here are on the Same Side. Most of us feel that there Should be investigations (prosecutions?) into what appear as obvious ‘Crimes’. Lets stay focused and aid the process that has already begun. Senator Carl Levin agreed with Biden that it is a Justice Dept decision. The Great thing about America is that we Can call our Senators and Members of Congress and our voices Can be heard. We’ve just seen that! Instead of bashing each other over petty differences, why not harass our Representatives into actually Functioning?
December 22nd, 2008 at 12:15 pmMay the New Year encourage us all to take Action.
I agree with MaryRW – go to change.gov AND make the actual calls to Senators etc. It takes a few minutes, but if many thousands of people do it, we Can make a difference!
Maybe a “hero” in your book, but not in most – flame away brother…
You’ve obviously have a high opinion of your comments.
Me? Not so much.
barfly – get real, the net effect of ashcrofts supposed “stand” was ZERO!!!!!
Would we even know about the continued lawbreaking, were it not for his stand?
Not only did he not stop the continued law breaking, but he hasn’t helped anyone be brought to justice either.
His actions stopped Gonzo, for a while, but seeing the president was in on the law-breaking, exactly what would you have had Ashcroft do? If he’d spoken up, he would have gotten the Wilson treatment. He’s no hero, but he showed that he was capable of overcoming partisan proclivities, to do the right thing. Tarring all of Obama’s picks, before they’ve even taken office, while some might surprise us as Ashcroft did, seems over-the-top cynical.
Was that a flame?
Dear me.
December 22nd, 2008 at 3:01 pmBiden is part of the problem.
Mr. Pakistani war-monger.
911=Inside job
December 22nd, 2008 at 4:57 pmSo, Biden’s argument, “we should be looking forward, not backwards,” must be the Dems talking point. Feinstein used the same line in a recent response to my email about Bush admin prosecutions. How convenient an excuse. Nothing is done for years about the abuses and now that a new admin is coming into power and could investigate we are told to look to the future.
December 23rd, 2008 at 1:54 amBIG.
December 23rd, 2008 at 11:40 pmMISTAKE.
JOE.