Warren’s church removes anti-gay statements from website.
By on Dec 22nd, 2008 at 6:29 pm
Warren’s church removes anti-gay statements from website.
On Friday, AmericaBlog’s John Aravosis pointed out that the website for Rev. Rick Warren’s Saddleback Church explicitly said that “someone unwilling to repent for their homosexual lifestyle would not be accepted as a member at Saddleback”:
Today, however, Aravosis notes that the anti-gay language has been pulled from the website. View a Google cache of the original page here.
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Ah, it must dawn in America. Can't you just feel the compassionate conservatism warming the cockles of your heart?
December 22nd, 2008 at 6:31 pmWell that makes everything allllll better now does'nt it. he can spew his hate as long as it is'nt on his churches web site
December 22nd, 2008 at 6:33 pmoh yeah and to all the jew's your all still going to hell!!!
(his words not mine)
Saddleback Church explicitly said that “someone unwilling to repent for their homosexual lifestyle would not be accepted as a member at Saddleback”:
- - So if a gay or lesbian joined the church during this interim while the anti-gay statements are removed, will they then be asked to leave the church when the statements are returned? Ya know, like pre-Prop 8 marriages being overturned.
December 22nd, 2008 at 6:35 pmI don't know much about Warren. However I can surmise from his website that he does NOT like gays as he said the other day. Gays do not appear to be welcome into his church unless of course they...change!
I understand Obama's need to be inclusive however Warren's opinions appear to be set in stone. Interesting that he removed this from his website just as people might be trying to find out a little more about him and his views.
December 22nd, 2008 at 6:47 pmhow did the Saddleback family get their name?
is Bristol Palin a member?
inquiring minds want to know?
Screw 'em!
December 22nd, 2008 at 6:50 pmJYD sez "Gays do not appear to be welcome into his church unless of course they…change!"
But they are welcome if they contribute to the "let's change the world" ministry.
December 22nd, 2008 at 6:55 pmThis probably won't be a popular thing to say but this guy Warren seems to be slightly more progressive on the issue of gays than does the Pope. Why is there so little anguish with the Pope's even more extreme position on this issue?
December 22nd, 2008 at 7:03 pmNo matter how many times people like Warren say that they have gay friends, they are still homophobes if they believe this nonsense. I've seen this before with conservatives I know (like, in my own family). The gays and minorities that they personally know are okay, it's just those other ones whose rights should be taken away. What they fail to understand and fully appreciate is that most of the gays and minorities that they don't personally know (and count as friends) are, for the most part, just like the ones they do personally know.
December 22nd, 2008 at 7:05 pmImagine that. Barack hasn't even been inaugurated yet and he's already bringing the "change" he promised to bring.
December 22nd, 2008 at 7:07 pmLushy's been hitting the egg nog a little hard... making even less sense than usual.
Hard to tell, I know.
December 22nd, 2008 at 7:11 pmI would suggest that the recent widely-publicized scandals of molestation in the Catholic church have somewhat undermined the Pope's ability to speak with credibility on issues of sexual identity.
December 22nd, 2008 at 7:14 pmSo does their removal of this language mean that they've changed the policy as well, and will accept membership from GLBT's?
Has anybody asked them if this is the case?
And if it turns out that they haven't changed the policy, then why is said policy no longer published?
December 22nd, 2008 at 7:17 pmAny real Christian should not be trying to get into any church compromising God's word. The only house a true Christian should be striving for is God's house; HEAVEN. A child of God needs no man made temple. Christ proved that by destroying the temple and claiming it would be resurrected in him. God's house is anywhere where his word is truly being spoken.
December 22nd, 2008 at 7:19 pmWell, for now, has toned down rhetoric. I am not ready to proclaim this was a responsible choice (or even a good one), but this could be progress. We will have to see.
December 22nd, 2008 at 7:26 pmTypical.
December 22nd, 2008 at 7:27 pmObama and Biden both said that further dividing the nation is not the way to heal our wounds. But the very foundation of Warren's church is based on division: Gays out, people who look like Warren are in. How does further dividing our nation cause to limit the divisions within our nation?
Now my head really hurts...
December 22nd, 2008 at 7:31 pmStratRat - they have to divide us before they can conquer us. Then we will be united as one fascist state.
December 22nd, 2008 at 7:31 pmNo one should be surprised - Rick Warren Is Gay
Check out the link for more.
December 22nd, 2008 at 7:31 pmbristol palin's white trash future M-i-L got popped over the weekend peddling oxycontin...
No, really...
December 22nd, 2008 at 7:33 pmThat's hilarious, Another Joe.
December 22nd, 2008 at 7:33 pmThey obviously felt embarrassed and ashamed at the way the anti-gay website messages sounded to most people.
This is an example of why I feel the Warren invitation was not all bad. In a way it is forcing Warren's mega church to be more inclusive. Today, it's removing anti-gay website messages, maybe tomorrow it is stopping preaching against gay people entirely.
If Warren truly wants to be in the mainstream, he's got to moderate his views. Otherwise, the only attention he'll be getting will be negative. The only articles written about him will be about how he hates gay people, not about any good his church might be doing.
December 22nd, 2008 at 7:42 pmLet's put this shibboleth about more snow meaning there's no climate change out of its misery, shall we?
Fact: Average, distributed global temperatures are increasing.
Fact: Rising average temperature does NOT mean that cold weather goes away.
Fact: A warmer climate, world-wide DOES means more evaporation.
Fact: More evaporation means more precipitation.
Fact: Precipitation doesn't care if it's rain or snow, but if it's cold where the precipitation happens, there will be snow...
SO: the present winter storm situation is the result of standard amounts of cold engulfing greater than usual amounts of evaporataion, with consequent increase in precipitation which, because it is winter, and cold, means more SNOW!
Rocket science, I know. But I wasn't home-schooled, so I get it....
December 22nd, 2008 at 7:43 pmToo many people confuse weather with climate;.
December 22nd, 2008 at 7:51 pmI hadn't heard that the Pope was speaking at the inauguration.
And you don't reward pinheads before they make positive changes.
December 22nd, 2008 at 8:44 pmOh and inferiortush, you aren't fit to shine Al Gore's shoes.
December 22nd, 2008 at 8:45 pmAnother Joe, fabulous stuff, and methinks he doth protest a wee bit too much.
December 22nd, 2008 at 8:54 pmtokin librul Says:
tokin, science won't change the views of people until someone with influence decides that it is important for people to trust science. I believe there will be some change in this department.
December 22nd, 2008 at 9:30 pmIt'll be back after the inauguration, just as the anti-Semitic posters were back up as soon the journalists left Nazi Germany after the '36 Olympics.
December 22nd, 2008 at 9:51 pmToo many Americans don't ever question the motives of religious "leaders." These megachurch clowns are all crooks--reaping $millions and making themselves obnoxious in the public square. Religion makes people crazy.
December 22nd, 2008 at 10:34 pmWell, that changes everything!
December 22nd, 2008 at 10:41 pmI'm sure there will now be a rush by the LGBT community to join Saddleback Church.
NOT.
December 22nd, 2008 at 10:48 pmHypocrits abound in politics. Spineless gay racists that for political expediency temporarily do a politically correct gesture to insure the success of their aims. This is just another example of a dismissive under the bus expendable gay intolerant act that is pervasive in the Christian conservative voting block; be they white or black.
December 22nd, 2008 at 11:08 pmWWJD, certainly not some political cover tactic. Spineless hypocrits.
LushInterior Says:
I dont know but I been told church people have more sex when they get old.
And from now on it will cost you $20.00 for me to clear the 2 foot of snow from your driveway with my dozer….I will no longer “bail you out” for free. Al Gore….get out your shovel….no help for you!
*
don't come back until
you learn how to be funny.
^
and original.
(no stealing from seinfeld -
it's liberal and it's just not you.)
*
December 22nd, 2008 at 11:11 pmSmall steps I suppose. Rome wasn't built in a day, etc.
I still trust Obama. Let's wait and see what he actually does while Prez.
December 22nd, 2008 at 11:15 pmWhy do Christian leaders always emphasize the Old Testament parts of The Bible? The parts that were from The Talmud? If they want to be Christians and preach the Word of Christ, then why do they emphasize the Jewish parts of their religion?
December 22nd, 2008 at 11:29 pmcarrot/stick is pain/pleasure is active/passive is top/bottom is given/received: a way to feel about behavioral conditioning.
December 23rd, 2008 at 12:13 amLushInterior Says:
You are nothing but an ignorant punk clown. Go away and dont come back til you grow up you worthless moron
December 23rd, 2008 at 12:55 am.
Saddleback Vhurch wrote:
... Just NOT at Brokedown Saddleback Church?
Now, what did Christ talk more about, being a hypocrite or being gay?
.
December 23rd, 2008 at 12:55 am.
I pray that Rick Warren finds it in his heart to forgive his hatred and disgust with mankind's sinful ways...
... But does Rick pray, for that forgiveness, too?
People like Warren make me thankful for the challenge to find forgiveness in my heart for his disgust and hatred of my sins. For that, I can be thankful for. However so though, his hatred and disgust still fuels another generation of the same hate and disgust, for which I am not thankful for. Maybe someday, Rick Warren will see this error in his ways of judgement and damnation reserved only for God...
... Someday, maybe.
Then, and only then, shall another generation be spared being raised on hate and disgust of others...
... A challenge Rick Warren has yet to rise up to accept.
.
December 23rd, 2008 at 1:03 am* CHANGE *
It's starting......
December 23rd, 2008 at 1:12 am______
Wayne A. Schneider Says:
No matter how many times people like Warren say that they have gay friends, they are still homophobes if they believe this nonsense. I’ve seen this before with conservatives I know (like, in my own family). The gays and minorities that they personally know are okay, it’s just those other ones whose rights should be taken away. What they fail to understand and fully appreciate is that most of the gays and minorities that they don’t personally know (and count as friends) are, for the most part, just like the ones they do personally know.
December 22nd, 2008 at 7:05 pm
_______
The an*alogy of blacks and gays doesn't work because you aren't talking about whether or not they are nice people. All gay people have in common the one thing that produces the issue in question. No one said gay people aren't generally nice people. Just because one disagrees with something a person does, doesn't mean one must dislike the person.
December 23rd, 2008 at 1:24 am______
Wayne A. Schneider Says:
Why do Christian leaders always emphasize the Old Testament parts of The Bible? The parts that were from The Talmud? If they want to be Christians and preach the Word of Christ, then why do they emphasize the Jewish parts of their religion?
December 22nd, 2008 at 11:29 pm
______
Because Jesus said,"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."
December 23rd, 2008 at 1:32 amupright left Says:
Because Jesus said,”Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.”
__________
Actually, no one knows what jesus said. All we really know is what OTHER people said about Jesus. Well Shi'ite, no one can REALLY prove that Jesus even existed.
Ya know, for a self-professed "Christian" ***cough***, you got a mean streak in, "bud". Perhaps you're more of a Christianist than a Christian. By and large, you seem a little short on the "charity" side...
Ho ho ho... Merry Christianistmas!!!
December 23rd, 2008 at 1:40 am______
The Republic of Stupidity Says:
Perhaps you’re more of a Christianist than a Christian. By and large, you seem a little short on the “charity” side…
December 23rd, 2008 at 1:40 am
______
I appreciate your concern, bud, but I'm ok on that account; you needn't worry. So, Merry Christmas! ;)
December 23rd, 2008 at 1:47 amMaybe Warren is tired of getting bomb threats.
December 23rd, 2008 at 2:00 amHaving Warren say a prayer at the presidential inauguration was a real reach around.
December 23rd, 2008 at 4:03 amfrom today's Boston Globe:
FOR AN INAUGURAL invocation for which he should have selected the most ecumenical minister possible, President-elect Barack Obama selected Rick Warren, who is fresh off his vocal endorsement of California's successful Proposition 8, which overturned the state law allowing gay marriage.
Discuss
COMMENTS (13)
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"I hope you're praying about your vote," Warren said in his endorsement. Reminding listeners twice in a video that Democratic candidate Obama and Republican John McCain both said at Warren's Saddleback forum during the campaign that the definition of marriage is one man and one woman, Warren waxed, "Now here's an interesting thing. There are about 2 percent of Americans, are homosexual or gay, lesbian people. We should not let 2 percent of the population determine, to change a definition of marriage that has been supported by every single culture and every single religion for 5,000 years. This is not even just a Christian issue, it's a humanitarian, a human issue."
A humanitarian issue! Like what? The corruption catastrophe in Zimbabwe? An earthquake in China? Hurricane Katrina? You have to be kidding. Invoking such imagery sunk Warren down into the pits with the late Jerry Falwell, who claimed that divesting from apartheid South Africa was inhumane. "Disinvestment will bring unemployment, unrest, anger and bloodshed," Falwell said.
To this day, in all the phobic frenzy to ban gay marriage in state after state, not a single straight person has yet to demonstrate how a gay or lesbian couple's marriage has any impact whatsoever on a straight marriage, let alone how it might bring the institution to its knees. Gay folks are merely a scapegoat for the fact that straight couples get it right only about half the time.
Obama has generally exhibited good judgment on gay issues. In June 2007, he rightfully slammed President Bush's nomination of cardiologist James Holsinger to be surgeon general. Holsinger was a highly credentialed former Kentucky health and family services secretary and former chancellor of the University of Kentucky medical center. But his nomination went nowhere, partially because of a 1991 religious paper he wrote titled "Pathophysiology of Male Homosexuality." Holsinger wrote that "the varied sexual practices of homosexual men have resulted in a diverse and expanded concept of sexually transmitted diseases and associated trauma." He concluded that "when the complementarity of the sexes is breached, injuries and diseases may occur."
Obama issued a statement saying, "America's top doctor should be a doctor for all Americans, and so I have serious reservations about nominating someone who would inject his own anti-gay ideology into critical decisions about the health and well-being of our nation . . . the United States surgeon general's office is no place for bigotry or ideology that would trump science and good judgment."
Yet here is Obama exercising terrible judgment on someone who just got done injecting anti-gay ideology into politics in the biggest state in the nation. It is nice that Warren and many evangelicals are increasingly involved in the environment and global poverty. But it seems that Obama is having a little PJSD here, as in Post Jeremiah Stress Disorder. Having nearly had his campaign destroyed by the tapes of his former pastor Jeremiah Wright blasting America as a hopelessly racist nation, Obama seems compelled to close his eyes to one of the most powerful forms of conservative-driven bigotry left in this country.
Obama earned an outpouring of support from gay and lesbian voters, even though his personal stand on gay marriage was standard political fare, stopping at civil unions. Gay advocacy groups praised how he included them rhetorically in speech after speech. Now, a month before that great day that could bring all Americans together unlike any in the nation's history, Obama has gone out of his way to pick someone for the invocation who is not even close to being a pastor for all Americans.
When Obama saw how flammable Wright was, he took him off the stage for the announcement of his candidacy in Springfield, Ill. Warren's calling a ban on gay marriage a "humanitarian" issue should result in the same. If Warren is allowed to give the invocation, the bright American rainbow that got Obama into office will dim in a way that spells danger for what else Obama will not stand up for.
Derrick Z. Jackson can be reached at jackson@globe.com.
December 23rd, 2008 at 7:54 amFor some reason, I cannot explain why, my brain correlates Saddleback church with the movie "Brokeback Mountain".
December 23rd, 2008 at 8:38 amI just wish that people that profess belief in an invisible sky fairy would get the psychological help they obviously need.
Religion is a mental disorder and should be treated as such.
---------------------------------------------
December 23rd, 2008 at 8:38 am'ere - Atlanta's Progressive Jazz
(yes that's me on the piano)
Find us at ReverbNation.com/ere
---------------------------------------------
I campaigned door-to-door for obama, and truly hope his choice of warren is not an enormous blunder.
December 23rd, 2008 at 8:43 amWhether it's posted on the site or not is really irrelevant - the nasty sentiment remains. And they call themselves Christians.
December 23rd, 2008 at 9:22 amOk, if they're so concerned that someone who is a practicing homosexual should repent before they can go to their church, do they also pry into the lives of the heterosexuals to make sure that they aren't committing adultery? Or that they're all doing it missionary style and nothing kinky? Why is it their business anyway? Aren't you supposed to go to church to, I don't know, worship GOD? This fixation on homosexuals makes me think that someone is hiding some impure thoughts.
Not all Christians are crazy, it's just that the crazy ones are the loudest and the first to speak up.
December 23rd, 2008 at 9:40 amOh, and a real Christian, who reads the Bible, knows that the Jews will be saved. Anyone else is simply a bigot.
December 23rd, 2008 at 9:42 amWayne A. Schneider Says:
Why do Christian leaders always emphasize the Old Testament parts of The Bible? The parts that were from The Talmud? If they want to be Christians and preach the Word of Christ, then why do they emphasize the Jewish parts of their religion?
Because the Torah segments are far more exclusionary, more about punishments, and display the fire and brimstone vengeful, hateful god. The New testament has way too much love and peace -- love your enemy and all that, and it takes a lot more work for them to justify their hatred and bigotry and self-centered philosophy with all that "do unto others" crap in the New Testament. Therefore, they tend to the Old Testament (Talmund SELECTIONS (because they couldn't use the whole Talmund)).
And the number one rule they go by: if two passages seem to conflict, select the one that supports what you already want to believe. There's just better hateful stuff in the OT.
December 23rd, 2008 at 9:52 amTallygirl Says:
Not all Christians are crazy, it’s just that the crazy ones are the loudest and the first to speak up.
I will accept that. Actually, the REAL Christians are not heard at all (teach by example, and pray in private). I've only met a few of those, but they are truly inspirational. But they also did not attend any organized churches: they were literate and intelligent and studied their bibles on their own, and never supposed to act "holier than thou". But they are BY FAR the MINORITY of christians.
December 23rd, 2008 at 9:54 amvinylspear Says:
"For some reason, I cannot explain why, my brain correlates Saddleback church with the movie “Brokeback Mountain”."
You're not alone.
December 23rd, 2008 at 10:11 amMy brain also correlates "Saddleback" with Bristol Palin.
Go figure!
cd Says:
Maybe Warren is tired of getting bomb threats.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Maybe he is tired of being a bigot
December 23rd, 2008 at 4:07 pmDecember 23rd, 2008 at 4:07 pm
yeah that's right anyone who disagrees with you is a bigot.
December 23rd, 2008 at 8:15 pmcd Says:
No MORON, that was a stupid attempt at a strawman argument. Anyone who associates homosexuality with pedophelia and incest is a bigot, that would include Warren. Have you ever had an original thought in your life or do you just plug in whatever talking point the screechmonkey who does your thinking for you has told you to think if it fits? You DO know you are an idiot, dont you?
December 23rd, 2008 at 8:47 pmLadies and Gents we have above us a perfect example of the sort of "person" who would call in a bomb threat.
December 23rd, 2008 at 9:53 pmcd Says:
You are stupid cd. That doesnt make me a criminal. Your stupidity isnt MY problem. Where did you get that one from? Sounds like a Limborg rerun. My GOD you are ignorant. Look everyone cd is an example of your brain on incessant screechmonkey talking points.
December 24th, 2008 at 12:57 amRub a dub dub,
December 24th, 2008 at 12:58 amThree men in a tub,
And who do you think they be?
The preacher, the banker,
The policy maker.
Turn them out, knaves all three!
In point of fact, I didn't see ANY GLBT groups in N.O.
December 24th, 2008 at 8:50 amSo much for "The Debate". Are we really that pathetic that we can't debate Christians. I'm not saying it's not difficult because they hold a lot of really important thoughts, but to try and beat them into silence? That only works in totalitarian countries. These Christians are smart, dedicated to their families and do all of the work in their local communities. If we tear them down, we tear down the people who actually work, pay taxes and volunteer their time. Let's debate them, not destroy them. Let's change their minds, not the backbone of our country. I didn't see 100's of thousands of GLBT volunteers in N.O. It was primarily Christians.
December 24th, 2008 at 8:50 amDecember 24th, 2008 at 12:57 am
That's the second time you've called me a screechmonkey.
Whats the matter geine running out of material?
December 24th, 2008 at 12:24 pmcd Says:
I never called YOU a screechmonkey. I said the AM hateradio screechmonkeys do your thinking for you. Whats the matter is the five year old you hire to read the posts to you on vacation? Adult education look into it. It isnt my fault that if you ever had an original thought in your life you would mistake it for a brain aneurysm
December 24th, 2008 at 12:35 pmAnother screechmonkey post?
That's three in a row.
December 24th, 2008 at 1:48 pmI also notice that the idea of calling in bomb threats doesn't bother you.
December 24th, 2008 at 1:50 pmYou are a very stupid poster cd. Very stupid. You cant read my mind. In fact you cant even read the posts. Your ignorance is awe inspiring. You dont know how I would feel about a bomb threat. I have no reason to believe there has ever been one. You just keep CLAIMING there was. I never heard about one. I assumed some Rightwing bloviating screechmonkey on the radio told you to believe it and that isnt a good enough reason for ME to believe it. YOUR stupidity doesnt define reality. When you link to a credible source talking about the police investigating a bomb threat I will take it seriously until then to me its another of your hallucinatory delusions.
December 25th, 2008 at 6:04 pmGenie while everyone else spent Christmas with friends and family you spent your day alone on the net posting hate filled remarks that no one will ever read.
That is sad.
December 26th, 2008 at 5:02 pmHow interesting! I mentioned your blog at my column on OutImpact.com. Thanks for finding the info about Saddleback's removal of their anti-gay propoganda!
http://www.outimpact.com/features/politics/wake-up-obamas-brilliant-manipulation-1606
December 28th, 2008 at 12:06 pmI understand Obama’s need to be inclusive however Warren’s opinions appear to be set in stonesohbetI assumed some Rightwingcet bloviating screechmonkey on the radio told you to believe itBedava mp3 indir and that isnt a good enough reason for ME to believe it.God’s house is anywhere where his word is truly being spoken.
February 28th, 2009 at 11:02 am