Israeli air strikes on Gaza continue for second day, Hamas calls for ‘third intifada.’
Israeli air strikes on Gaza continue for second day, Hamas calls for ‘third intifada.’
In response to increased rocket attacks from a number of Palestinian groups, Israel launched a second wave of air strikes late Saturday and early Sunday morning. The weekend’s estimated death toll increased to 280. Last week, Hamas declared an end to a rocky six-month-old ceasefire agreement. The IDF is reportedly “sending tanks and infantry reinforcements southward in preparation for possible ground incursion.” After the first wave of air strikes yesterday, Hamas launched a new series of rocket attacks, while Khaled Meshal, Hamas’s political leader, said during an interview, “This is the time for a third Intifada.” The White House called Hamas ‘thugs,’ saying, “Israel is going to defend its people against terrorists like Hamas that indiscriminately kill their own people.”
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Elsewhere this morning its being reported that Chimpy is putting the onus on Hamas to stop attacking Israel http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/28/world/middleeast/28diplo.html?_r=1
I guess this means, once again, that the terrorist state of Israel can do no wrong.
December 28th, 2008 at 10:11 amIsrael has an election soon so of course this is a political action designed to influence that election. It is becoming standard operating procedure for politicians in power to use military operations to shore up their political standing with support the troops logic when the troops are in reality no more than fodder for the war.
December 28th, 2008 at 10:19 amLooks like the trigger has been pulled on the Middle East. Guess we just have to sit back and see what the “powers that be” want to happen there. My guess is munitions sales, but I could be wrong.
There are lives in the balance
December 28th, 2008 at 10:20 amWe should be thankfull that Bush did NOT bring democracy to the middle East…because after the Arab World sees the pictures now coming out of Gaza…they Won’t be voting our Way.
December 28th, 2008 at 10:33 amOnce again Israel will fill our air way’s with lie’s to justify their genocide on their neighbor…The people that were persacuted and lost so many themsleve’s have now become just like those that tried to wipe them off the map…
They are saying they have a right to protect themselve’s…Yah! That would sound reasonable to me if they had not bombed the crap out of Lebanon and killed over 2000 awhile ago, denied people from their farm’s, food, water,power and all humatarian aid along with continuing their killing of men, women and children…
Fast forward to the last couple day’s and we have a repeat….Israel get’s hit, 4 or 5 people are injured or killed and they call out air strike’s when the Gaza strip kid’s are getting out of school…50 strike’s and hundred’s killed in the street’s.
When are the people of the world going to demand cutting off money and munition’s for war’s by The USA and stop supporting WAR’S?….When are all people of the world going to throw down their weapon’s and instead spend their time and money on healing and feeding all people in Peace?…Blessings
December 28th, 2008 at 10:38 am“I am against violence because the good it does is temporary, but the damage it does is permanent.” Mahatma Gandhi
December 28th, 2008 at 10:40 amI need a lawyer.
This guy was just throwing like 100 rocks at me when I was walking down the street. Now none of the rocks hit me but they could have put my eye out. So I pulled out my fully automatic AK 47 with laser sight and filled him full of lead. Thats self defense right?
I guess it is if you are the country of Israel.
December 28th, 2008 at 10:52 amAir strikes on Gaza continue for second day, Hamas calls for ‘third intafada.’
Tis the season for “Peace on Earth, Good Will Towards Men”, ain’t it?
December 28th, 2008 at 11:01 amsgwhitefla,
December 28th, 2008 at 11:04 amActually, not only did you fill him full of lead, but his family, his neighbors family, his neighbors neighbors family, including children.
But yes, the media will inform all that it was a warranted self defense, and ignore the fact you were stockpiling illegal weapons.
Just sayin…
Good Morning DRxj, Good to read you here…..Blessings
December 28th, 2008 at 11:08 amsgwhitefla. I do have to disagree with you. If someone is throwing rocks, shooting bullets, or firing rockets at you (as was the case here), do you wait until you are hit before you defend yourself?
Is Israel’s response over the top, maybe so. But Hamas ended the truce, basically declaring war.
It’s a shame that, throughout history, politicians have realized that keeping their populace in a mind set of perpetual war is good for their power. Arafat had many chances to create the opportunity for lasting peace, but never took them. As it was later revealed he knew that peace would undermine his power, and just like our chimp-in-charge, felt unending war was best for his political career.
Unfortunately, its always the people that suffer, on either side of a war. Just look at the suffering our country is going through now to pay for Iraq, a country that never attacked us. War is never the answer unless you are a power hungry, megalomaniac (sound like Cheney to me)
December 28th, 2008 at 11:08 amZionists are not opposed to genocide when they are doing the killing.
And J. Street, is the issue here really Israel’s right to exist? Do the Palestinians pose an existential threat to Israel? This sounds like the worst kind of propaganda to me.
December 28th, 2008 at 11:11 amIsn’t it spelled, “intifada,” not “intafada?”
December 28th, 2008 at 11:25 amA over reacting parting assault for gwb. And where is Condi? Buying a new tiara for her accomplishments to a peaceful world?
December 28th, 2008 at 11:26 amGreen Party
How sure are you that it was Hamas that broke the truce? I realize that most in the media aren’t talking about it but there are reports that Israel blew up tunnels which they suspected Hamas was using to smuggle weapons thereby ending the truce themselves. I could also point out that part of the cease fire agreement was that Israel would reopen their borders so Palestinians could get heating oil food and medical supplies and Israel NEVER complied with that part of the agreement and as a result the Palestinians are living just above starvation levels and many human righs orgs around the globe have accused Israel of violating the Geneva conventions by collectively punishing the Palestinians but I mean why bring facts into the argument right?
December 28th, 2008 at 11:32 amThe “Balfour Declaration”
Foreign Office
November 2nd, 1917
Dear Lord Rothschild,
I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty’s Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet.
His Majesty’s Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.
I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.
Yours sincerely,
December 28th, 2008 at 11:37 amArthur James Balfour
WOW….there’s a lot of terrorist supporters
December 28th, 2008 at 11:40 amcommenting here. The solution is simple but the
pals are too stupid to figure it out. Don’t shoot
rockets=don’t get bombed…DUHHHH. Israel is a
little to blame also…the report said that over
3000 rockets had been fired into Israel over the
past year and they are just now striking back.
This is the WRONG approach. They need to
immediately bomb for EVERY rocket fired.
Haven’t we seen this movie hundreds of times already? When will Israel stop encouraging the Palestinians to hate them even more?
December 28th, 2008 at 11:40 amMy final thoughts on this
There will be many who say “Well what would you expect Israel to do if hey are constantly under attack”
To them I ask the flip side of the question. What would you do if you were a Palestinian?
What would you do if you had your lands snatched from you and then the country who snatched it chose to occupy your lands for years and years
What would you do if that country was subsidized and funded by a superpower who gave them cutting edge advanced armaments when the best you could get is second hand left overs from previous wars?
What would you do if other countries forced democracy on you and then when you democratically elect Hamas into power those same countries tell you that your government is no longer legitimate?
What would you do if you were being starved by your neighbor and they wouldn’t allow you to heat your home or have electricity, if you were forced to eat grass to survive as some media outlets have reported, if you signed a truce in good faith and reduced the number of rockets launched to less than one a day when at one point the average was more than 50 a day and yet you still get no relief from the country with whom you entered into the cease fire with.
What would you do?
The truth is if it was Russia and not Israel who did something like this we would denounce it with everything we had. But because its Israel we call it self defense. Wasn’t that the same thing the Russians said they were doing in Georgia?
Something to think about
December 28th, 2008 at 11:42 amA few more massacres like this one and the Jews in Israel will surpass Hitler’s record of innocent civilians slaughtered.
December 28th, 2008 at 11:52 amWitch1,
December 28th, 2008 at 11:52 amYes. A rare Sunday posting by moi.
PB & J to you!
P.B & J back at ya DRxj….Noticed those of us that speak of Peace are now called terrorist’s…How quaint and typical of troll’s and warmonger’s…Nothing new here, they have been beating the war drum’s and spouting lie’s for so long they now believe their own lie’s…Must be a slow day for pay to post reich winger’s….Blessings
December 28th, 2008 at 12:06 pmIsrael is the USer Forward Base in the ME. A land-based Aircraft carrier for pilots we don’t have to (directly) pay.
The US is equally complicit in the slaughter in Gaza, with the IDF.
the ratio of dead palestinians killed by israelis and dead israelis killed by palestinians is now over 200-to-1…
December 28th, 2008 at 12:07 pmThink South Africa.
South Africans did not resist ‘peacably.’
Remember Soweto? Necklacing?
December 28th, 2008 at 12:08 pmI think israel is a terrorist state!
December 28th, 2008 at 12:10 pmI have said before all we need to do is to relocate the people of Israel, along with all the important sites they lay claim to, to a spacious part of the US. For instance, we have lots of land in Texas or say Montana, North Dakota, etc. Oh wait, that wouldn’t work either, they probably would have disputes with neighboring states.
December 28th, 2008 at 12:13 pm“What would you do if you had your lands snatched from you and then the country who snatched it chose to occupy your lands for years and years”
The land that Israel sits on was a wasteland when
the (few) arabs occupied it.
“What would you do if that country was subsidized and funded by a superpower who gave them cutting edge advanced armaments when the best you could get is second hand left overs from previous wars?”
Except to attack, they don’t even need weapons and
they’ve shown that with weapons all they will do
is attack..so it’s best they get the crap.
“What would you do if other countries forced democracy on you and then when you democratically elect Hamas into power those same countries tell you that your government is no longer legitimate?”
They made their bed…they showed their true
colors…(insert favorite metaphor here)
“What would you do if you were being starved by your neighbor and they wouldn’t allow you to heat your home or have electricity, if you were forced to eat grass to survive as some media outlets have reported, if you signed a truce in good faith and reduced the number of rockets launched to less than one a day when at one point the average was more than 50 a day and yet you still get no relief from the country with whom you entered into the cease fire with.”
We send them millions upon millions and all they
do is squander it and buy weapons. The number of
rocket launches needs to be ZERO..NOT some number
less than before. Get it?
“What would you do?”
I’d stop firing rockets and try to get along.
“The truth is if it was Russia and not Israel who did something like this we would denounce it with everything we had. But because its Israel we call it self defense. Wasn’t that the same thing the Russians said they were doing in Georgia?”
Georgia attacked Russia??
“Something to think about”
December 28th, 2008 at 12:15 pmSomething to think about
ooops, fix that “Georgia attacked Russia??” line,
December 28th, 2008 at 12:32 pmhaven’t had my coffee yet. The bottom line is,
pals need to get rid of hamas and just get along.
They were making progress, then threw it all away.
They basically showed that no matter what
concession is given, they will only use it to
attack from a more advantageous position.
The only real hope for Israel is that they are having an election in February. The two top contenders are Netanyahu and Tzipi Livni. From what I have read about Livni shows that she has promoise. She is definitely not another war mongering candidate.
Netanyahu faces a stronger challenge from Tzipi Livni, Israel’s foreign minister and the woman elected to succeed Olmert as head of the young center-right Kadima Party.
The other possible turning point is that a majority of the people in Israel support direct talks with Hamas.
Sixty-four percent of Israelis say the government must hold direct talks with the Hamas government in Gaza toward a cease-fire and the release of captive soldier Gilad Shalit. Less than one-third (28 percent) still opposes such talks.
I’m thinking this push now is a last gasp of a government that knows they will no longer be valid after February.
Finally, on the bright side (if you can say that), this is keeping Israel occupied and lessens the chance that they will be attacking Iran any time soon.
This is a very sad state of affairs and Israel’s overreaction has once again become a blood bath. I am praying it is their last. I am also praying that Obama does not buy into the “Israel can do no wrong” mind speak. I’m thinking he won’t.
December 28th, 2008 at 12:35 pmsgwhitefla Says:
How sure are you that it was Hamas that broke the truce?
Because the MSM have told us so. They wouldn’t lie to us, would they???
December 28th, 2008 at 12:43 pmliedetector Says:
WOW….there’s a lot of terrorist supporters
commenting here. The solution is simple but the
pals are too stupid to figure it out. Don’t shoot
rockets=don’t get bombed…
Hey cowardly troll. Did you bother to read the post right before yours? It’s post 18. And it shoots your post down righteously. But, I’m sure you are not interested in anyone else’s opinion since yours is so superior.
You people make me sick.
December 28th, 2008 at 12:48 pmI have to be honest here. I live in San Diego. And if we blew up a few smuggling tunnels, like we do every month, and in retaliation Mexican government backed groups started launching mortars and explosives into San Diego county, I would encourage a swift violent retaliation. Now weather or not it would solve the problem or not, that would be another questions. But I have to side with Israel on this one. Hamas really blew it here.
December 28th, 2008 at 12:55 pmPerhaps it’s time to wipe Israel off the map after all.
They’ve shown consistently that they can’t get along with any of their neighbors or conquered subjects. It’s also pretty obvious that a two-state solution is impossible, given the swiss-cheese parcel of land and resources they’re willing to grant to Palestine.
That’s it. Israel does not deserve to be a state. The land between the Jordan and the Mediterranean must be one state, two peoples, with equal access to land, resources, and rights for ALL within its borders – Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Russian, Arab, Palestinian, Ashkenazi, Hebrew, Ethiopic – everyone.
True, with this new demography it will no longer be a Jewish state, but I really don’t care. It’s time to end this pathetic idea once and for all.
December 28th, 2008 at 12:55 pmliedetector Says:
The solution is simple but the
pals are too stupid to figure it out. Don’t shoot
rockets=don’t get bombed…DUHHHH.
If only it were that simple:
Baghdad bombing suggests that security gains are fragile
BAGHDAD _ A car bomb ripped through a historic Shiite Muslim district of Baghdad Saturday, killing at least 24 people and wounding at least 46, Iraqi police said. The U.S. military put the death toll at 18.
The bombing in Kadhimiyah, a holy area for Shiite Muslims and the home to the tombs of two Imams, or spiritual leaders, underscores fear that the security gains of the past year are fragile and easily reversible, even in the country’s capital.
Only a month ago, the bridge between Kadhimiyah and the Sunni neighborhood Adhamiyah was a scene of joy. In a sign that the worst had passed, the bridge between the Sunni and Shiite neighborhoods, which had been closed for years, was reopened.
Earlier this month, more than 55 people were killed in a bombing at a restaurant near the oil-rich northern city of Kirkuk where Kurds, Sunni Arabs and Turkmen are vying for control. The bombing on Saturday was the largest in Baghdad since Nov. 10, when three bombs killed 28 and injured 68 in the Sunni neighborhood of Adhamiyah.
At about noon on Saturday, a car detonated near buses that were picking up and dropping off visitors on their way to the Shiite shrine. A ball of fire erupted in the crowd.
At the Kadhimiyah hospital, where 22 bodies were taken and more than 40 of the wounded were brought, hospital officials hurried to treat victims.
Mahmoud Talib, 43, a vendor in the bustling marketplace in the Shiite district remembers only a loud boom and a ball of fire that knocked him down as he spoke to his son. When he awoke, he was in the hospital.
“I saw a big ball of flame coming towards me, and I couldn’t see or remember anything,” he said. “I found that my face was burned and my body was burned.”
A man and his fiancee died in the bombing. They’d gone to Kadhimiyah, which is known for its vast silver and gold shops, to pick out a jewelry set from the groom’s family to the bride according to Arab tradition. The man went with his mother, his future mother-in-law, his brother and his soon-to-be wife, but the couple never bought the jewelry and never took their vows. The bombing killed all of them.
Guards searched ambulances for explosives before letting them transport the wounded to the emergency room, and other vehicles were banned from approaching the hospital. By 7 p.m., more than 20 people were still in critical condition in the hospital, a nurse said.
Soon after the bombing, family members began to arrive and run to the morgue to search for their loved ones among the dead. The wounded screamed in pain, and those who grieved wailed.
“Why God?” one woman said. “God, why my son?”
December 28th, 2008 at 12:57 pmbnye Says:
I have to be honest here. I live in San Diego. And if we blew up a few smuggling tunnels, like we do every month, and in retaliation Mexican government backed groups started launching mortars and explosives into San Diego county, I would encourage a swift violent retaliation.
December 28th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
_________
So has California spent the last two months blockading Mexico and preventing vital food, fuel, and medicine shipments from reaching the Mexican people? I missed that part of your ana|ogy.
Hamas has not been acting in a vacuum. They are retaliating for Israel’s blatant attempt to starve the Ghazan people to death.
December 28th, 2008 at 1:05 pmDecember 28th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
Can you say “Ethnic cleansing”?
The Israelis are sponsoring the ethnic cleansing of ALL the Arabs from “Palestine.”
December 28th, 2008 at 1:12 pmtokin librul Says:
Can you say “Ethnic cleansing”?
The Israelis are sponsoring the ethnic cleansing of ALL the Arabs from “Palestine.”
December 28th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
_________
Sponsoring? I’d say the United States is the one sponsoring this. Israel is the contracted mercenary.
December 28th, 2008 at 1:18 pmTP, let me correct your update:
It’s a conflict between the Israeli military and the Palestinian people.
¶ AIO
December 28th, 2008 at 1:24 pmGuido the Loving OBGYN Says:
After losing repeated wars I would go to plan “b” and resist peacefully and try to gain world support. Think South Africa.
December 28th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
_________
The Palestinians have done that, and they DO have world support. Including from South African leaders like Desmond Tutu and Nelson Mandela.
It’s only because of the AIPAC stranglehold on U.S. media that we don’t see how isolated we, Israel, and Micronesia are in our unconditional support for Israel’s terrorist actions.
December 28th, 2008 at 1:24 pmThere was a democratic election where Hamas won. The USA and Israel didn’t like the result of this democratic election so they punished the Palestinian people. They ignored Hamas instead bringing it to the political scene. They begun to deal with the Fatha leader who lost the election. They closed Gaza transforming it in a giant prison. Hunger a misery is what the USA and Israel delivered to the Palestinian people. When they react, whith legitimacy (A thing the neither the US nor Israel possesses!) they are branded “TERRORISTS”.
December 28th, 2008 at 1:37 pmThe Terrorist State of Israel and its supporters are guilty of WAR CRIMES and CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY!
bnye…
December 28th, 2008 at 1:42 pmif someone comes into my land and declares it the promissed land of someone else (England/Israel), kill my family, destroy my house, steal my fertile land, my water, my identity. Build a wall to isolate me and steal more land, you can bet your bottom dollar that I will be lauching rockets against the criminal invader!
Nothing will be resolved until the Israelis realize that they are guest not owners.
December 28th, 2008 at 1:47 pmWhat the Jewish military is doing to the Palestinian refugees is genocide, ethnic cleansing, and a holocaust – with the stamp of approval of the United States of America.
The next time a Jew tells me a Nazi Holocaust story, I’m going to slap his ears off.
December 28th, 2008 at 1:48 pmWho is supplying Hamas with its rockets? We know who supplies Israel with its weapons.
December 28th, 2008 at 1:51 pmBush is sprintin’ to the finish. He has 22 days left to get his third war on. With Iran. Don’t be surprised if Iran is blamed for the Hamas rocket attacks, giving the excuse to bomb Iran. It’s all about finding a way to do it, to paraphrase Paul O’Neill’s account of how Bush and Cheney ginned up the invasion of Iraq.
December 28th, 2008 at 1:55 pmThe GOP is terrified of the possibility that Obama could be a successful president, reforming our healthcare system and rebuilding infrastructure. What better way to stymie this but with a war with Iran. The resulting high oil prices would be a gift to their friends, the oil companies. The resulting global depression would create golden opportunities for privatization of public resources. The privatization has already started.
How about Israelis setting up communities in the middle of the Palestinians territories?
How about the Israelis hundreds of check points that the Palestinians have go through?
How about Israelis disrupting the lives of thousands of Palestinians?
How about the the inhuman conditions the Israelis place on the Palestinians?
Israelis alway talk about not bombing civilians, but they do.
Israelis want to run the Palestinians into the sea.
December 28th, 2008 at 2:01 pmIsrael withdrew from Gaza strip almost three years ago, and did it unilaterally. There is no Israelis civilians or soldiers inside Gaza strip (except for one captured Israeli soldier, that no one saw in almost three years). Yet, since the withdrawal, Israel’s southern cities were bombed on a daily basis, and for no reason. No country in the world would tolerate a situation in which its citizens lives in shelters for 8 years. Hamas broke the cease fire for no reason and they use their people as human shields.
December 28th, 2008 at 2:17 pmIsrael does not look for a military solution, nor we want to rule over other people. Israel is trying since 1993 to reach a diplomatic agreement with the Palestinians, and in return all we get are terror attacks. Enough is enough. When Hamas will stop attacking us and will recognize Israel’ right to exist, then we can sit and talk. Until then, they deserve what they get. No wonder that even the Arab world is against them now.
‘Impoverished Palestinians on the Gaza Strip are being forced to scavenge for food on rubbish dumps to survive as Israel’s economic blockade risks causing irreversible damage, according to international observers.’
link from 12-21-08
To say that Hamas broke the ceasefire for “no reason” is disingenuous.
December 28th, 2008 at 2:21 pmiamwhoiam Says:
Israel does not look for a military solution, nor we want to rule over other people. Israel is trying since 1993 to reach a diplomatic agreement with the Palestinians, and in return all we get are terror attacks. Enough is enough. When Hamas will stop attacking us and will recognize Israel’ right to exist, then we can sit and talk. Until then, they deserve what they get. No wonder that even the Arab world is against them now.
December 28th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
_________
Oh boo hoo hoo. Cry me a river, pal. Israel has no right to complain about those big mean rock-throwing firecracker-launching Palestinians defending themselves against your nuclear arsenal and multi-billion-dollar air force.
Israel’s “attempts” to make peace since 1993 have been nothing but hollow gestures that force the Palestinian people to accept worse conditions than those they already live under, while granting Israel the right to make the status quo permanent.
Try making some REAL concessions to the Palestinian people – dismantling the illegal settlements, closing the roadblocks, opening the borders to trade and labor migration, tearing down the illegal Apartheid Wall, and giving the West Bank and Ghaza REAL control over their territory and resources, and they’ll consider recognizing your “right to exist.”
Until, you do not deserve such a right.
December 28th, 2008 at 2:40 pmAfter the US illegally invaded Iraq based on lies the United Nations can’t tell any other country they can’t invade anyone else. For years Israel/Palestine have been attacking each other. It’s 23 days left for Israel to get full support and weapons from the USA. Israel said one person was killed by an morter. They decided to send 200 bombs and have killed 280 people yes woman and children. Ressetly we hear Israel humiliate a prisoner while saying it never happen it was all lies as Israel people are followers of God. Oops the photo’s came out to prove it happen as Israel leaders again lied in the name of God. The Holy Wall was the last place that truely represented God’s Holyness and Israel’s place with God. Thousands of years World Leaders to common people came to pray at the Holy Wall and leave a message to God. Senator Obama’s first visit as he prayed at the Holy Wall and to left a message to God. The next morning Obama’s message was printed in the Israel newspaper. So much for being Holy any more. God is not longer with Israel or the US because of their works with Satan. Israel is trying to draw out other Middle Eastern countries for a War. Then Israel will ask the US to join in to help them. Israel tried it with Syria as they bombed that country based on lies. Now Syria is buying weapons from Russia to protect themelves from future Israel attacks.
December 28th, 2008 at 3:09 pmEvery Nation in the World should arm themselves with weapons as they don’t know if Irsrael will attack them. Iran better get with the program quick as the Bush Administration gave Nukes to Israel, India and even Pakistan has Nukes. The blueprint for Nuke was given by the US in exchange for cooperating in the invasion of Iraq. Some Countries wanted Weapons or Nukes or Money. It seems that Israel plays a good game at lying and using God to steal and kill.
Guido the Loving OBGYN Says:
So it’s a real race to the bottom. With Israel leading the way. To hell with all of them. What a sh!tty way to live. I would have packed my crap and gone to live in the wild before spending one insanity-filled day in a mideast sh!thole.
December 28th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
__________
There’s no place for racism or anti-semitism in this thread. This is about politics, not lambasting another culture for their traditions. Yes, they do things a little differently in the Middle East. So?
The culture that gave the world turducken, Hannah Montana, and NASCAR has no business criticizing the rest of the world for how they live.
December 28th, 2008 at 3:26 pm______
DRxJ Says:
——————————————————————————–
sgwhitefla,
Actually, not only did you fill him full of lead, but his family, his neighbors family, his neighbors neighbors family, including children.
But yes, the media will inform all that it was a warranted self defense, and ignore the fact you were stockpiling illegal weapons.
Just sayin…
December 28th, 2008 at 11:04 am
______
He shouldn’t have launched his attack from the midst of his children, neighbors etc. He must have known they would be injured by his cowardly action.
December 28th, 2008 at 3:30 pmupright left Says:
He shouldn’t have launched his attack from the midst of his children, neighbors etc. He must have known they would be injured by his cowardly action.
December 28th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
________
Where else would you expect the Ghazans to launch defensive attacks from? It’s an area twice the size of Washington DC, and almost completely urban. There’s no place that isn’t in the midst of children and neighbors.
December 28th, 2008 at 3:33 pmI suspect/fear this is part of a bigger game. The lameducks have set the economy on fire and now it looks like the Middle East is flaring up all in the last “sprint to the finish” of the Bush administration. Have oil prices gone back up yet?
December 28th, 2008 at 3:38 pmThis person seems to think that we live in a vacuum and cannot see the truth…..sad but it’s your hole you are digging.
The truth is really just the opposite of what whoiam states. Funny that you can rationalize this to your viewpoint……biased as it is.
What the world has seen:
A modern, well equiped army with jets and tanks taking on people with rocks and bottles and a few antiquated missles that can’t even be aimed properly.
We see adults in uniform shooting children in their own streets.
youamwhoyouam alright, a bloody brutal occupational force in another persons homeland. At that point you want to cry because the people who’s land you have occupied still want their land back……..pathetic is what you are and the world stands against you.
The only ally you have is the US and many here are working diligently to end this sick relationship.
December 28th, 2008 at 3:39 pmIsrael does very little without the support and blessing and often behest of the USA.
December 28th, 2008 at 3:42 pmthis is the end of Israel…..rot in hell every last one of you zionist pigs….american or israeli.
the world will no longer tolerate these bloodthirsty vermin holding world peace hostage.
December 28th, 2008 at 3:43 pmToasterhead is exactly right. This is not about anything except the Israeli government and army which are political tools.
There are many Israelie’s who stand opposed to what their government is doing. I stand with those Israelies and hope they gain the momentum and power to change thier own government to a peaceful nation. It is all up to Israel, peace or war….Israel decides.
December 28th, 2008 at 3:47 pmIf only you lived by your words. You shouldn’t have supported a needless, costly war that cost a million human lives and contributed to the economic downfall of the US.
You shouldn’t have supported tax cuts for the rich and de-regulation that finished our once strong economy off. We are now a nation in decline……thanks to you.
You got more advice for the rest of us?
December 28th, 2008 at 3:59 pmThe failed meme of the first decade of the 21st Century.
You’re either with us or you’re with the terrorists…….
loony moonbat liberals have taken control of your country……now what are you going to do?
I know, try to keep anything postive from happening that the left might take credit for, such as revive our decimated economy. I know, you can’t have that happening after working so hard to destroy it.
December 28th, 2008 at 4:11 pmBasic ethics: the “just war” demands that the innocent are not harmed and that the action be proportionate.
I guess that means that in Israel, anyone with brown skin is a terrorist and mass bombings are proportionate to their existing.
OTOH – what can the US say ? The Bush doctrine of “if you harbor a terrorist, you are a terrorist” and preemptive strikes justifies Israel’s action – after all, Arab children are extremely likely to grow up to be anti-Israel.
December 28th, 2008 at 4:15 pmI wish the US did not have such a cozy Liebermanesques relationship with Israel.
December 28th, 2008 at 4:30 pmFred says,
There are many Israelie’s who stand opposed to what their government is doing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear Fred,
From what I understand, the hard line, right wing, Zionist Party in Israel has had 90% approval for the past 60 years. In Israel, the politician who promises to steal the most land and slaughter the most Palestinian refugees always wins the election.
Delafield
December 28th, 2008 at 4:32 pmUh, Jackie? See “Mordechai Vanunu”. It’s been public knowledge that Israel has undeclared nukes since the 80’s. The blueprints for nukes aren’t all that secret either. They are actually pretty simple weapons. Getting the fissile material is the challenging part. See “Dimona”. Israel has had the (undeclared) capability to launch a nuclear attack in the Mideast for a long time. As fiendish as Bush is, the idea that he corrupted Israel is laughable.
December 28th, 2008 at 4:44 pmIt sure looks like there are a lot of people on this site
needs to read “God’s War on Terror” by Walid Shoebat, a
former PLO muslim terrorist who converted to Christianity
after trying to convert his Christian American wife to Islam.
This former muslim who was taught to HATE Jews with all his
being is now a firm defender of Israel’s RIGHT TO EXIST!
There will NEVER be any peace in the Middle East UNTIL all
muslims acknowledge Israel’s RIGHT TO EXIST.
Muslims ALWAYS signs peace accords under the term “HUDNA”
which under muslim belief, gives them the right to sign a
temporary peace treaty until they can accummulate rockets to
fire at Israel, etc.
It is unfortunate that most Americans and the Christian
world do NOT understand this muslim belief.
Finally, the muslims who acknowledge that they came from
Abraham of the Old Testament refuses to acknowledge the fact
that Abraham’s God CHOSE the Israelites to be his chosen
people and he GAVE LAND to Israel. It so happens the people
of Israel is currently occupying only part of their land
given to them by God.
Now for you people who don’t like this message. Take it up
December 28th, 2008 at 4:48 pmwith Jehovah God WHO IS NOT THE SAME GOD AS ALLAH.
greenchili Says:
Finally, the muslims who acknowledge that they came from
Abraham of the Old Testament refuses to acknowledge the fact
that Abraham’s God CHOSE the Israelites to be his chosen
people and he GAVE LAND to Israel. It so happens the people
of Israel is currently occupying only part of their land
given to them by God.
Now for you people who don’t like this message. Take it up
with Jehovah God WHO IS NOT THE SAME GOD AS ALLAH.
Take it up with an imaginary being?
Jehovah and Allah are human constructs. Try living your life without superstition.
December 28th, 2008 at 5:10 pmYou have the responsibility to get this person to show up in court…….then we will listen to his claim of “giving” something to someone…..until then…..well, you lack credibility…….
Oh, and one paid of traitor doesn’t have any more credibility than you do.
December 28th, 2008 at 5:21 pmWiley thanks for the information I reseached the one you gave and also found this:
The F-16 fighter-bombers, Apache attack helicopters, armored vehicles and even the rifles carried by the Israeli soldiers come from the United States, much of it provided free.
The massive Israeli offensive begun on March 29 that has taken such an appalling toll on Palestinian cities, towns and refugee camps was given the green light by U.S. officials, from the president on down.
Yes 2001 and beyond as much as Israel needs to kill as many people as possible. Looks like the Bush Policy is working well for Israel. Now this gives Nations the right to get as many weapons as possible as who knows if Israel might decide to attack someone else. Syria is right to buy weapons from Russia for protection. If Iran intends to protect it’s citizens from being bombed by Israel they better start stacking up on weapons themselves. At lease the smoke and mirrors are wiped away and the World now see’s the real Israel.
December 28th, 2008 at 5:29 pm______
Fred Says:
——————————————————————————–
upright left Says:
He shouldn’t have launched his attack from the midst of his children, neighbors etc. He must have known they would be injured by his cowardly action.
If only you lived by your words. You shouldn’t have supported a needless, costly war that cost a million human lives and contributed to the economic downfall of the US.
You shouldn’t have supported tax cuts for the rich and de-regulation that finished our once strong economy off. We are now a nation in decline……thanks to you.
You got more advice for the rest of us?
December 28th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
______
As usual, bud, your “us against them” mindset causes you to be wrong. I didn’t support the war. Nor did I support deregulation, the responsibility for which lies with both parties according to Bill Clinton. I support the current graduated tax system, minus the loopholes, with everyone paying their share to meet the basic needs of our people. If you are referring to the fact that I don’t support punitive taxes on anyone because you are jealous of their wealth, then you are correct. Now, back to the topic. ;)
December 28th, 2008 at 5:35 pmIf you are referring to the fact that I don’t support punitive taxes on anyone because you are jealous of their wealth, then you are correct. Now, back to the topic. ;)
Punitive in what way? You’re using a mighty wide brush there, Picasso.
December 28th, 2008 at 5:38 pmAs far as the Israel/Palestine issue, we should airlift humanitarian supplies to the Palestinians, to be even-handed.
December 28th, 2008 at 5:44 pmThe lack of regulation that occurred under bush was a direct result of bush and gop fiscal policy and reflects directly on the poor management skills of the republicans.
The rest of your statment bears out my point that you supported the people who caused our financial demise and don’t deserve the respect of anyone as far as your opinion goes…….
Keep your own council, I am looking for a more positive outcome than anything you support.
December 28th, 2008 at 5:48 pmupright left, Keep your own council, I am looking for a more positive outcome than anything you support.
That goes for your opinions on Palestine/Israel relations too. You have been proven to be on the failed end of this conflict.
Only Israel can stop the violence and they can’t do it by inflicting more violence on Palestine……it has failed.
December 28th, 2008 at 5:51 pm______
hussein toasterhead Says:
——————————————————————————–
upright left Says:
He shouldn’t have launched his attack from the midst of his children, neighbors etc. He must have known they would be injured by his cowardly action.
December 28th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
________
Where else would you expect the Ghazans to launch defensive attacks from? It’s an area twice the size of Washington DC, and almost completely urban. There’s no place that isn’t in the midst of children and neighbors.
December 28th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
______
Leaving aside the issue of whether it was defensive, did you seriously just say that it’s ok to launch an attack from the midst of children knowing that they will be a target? If I felt the need to attack someone, I’d find a way to do so without making innocent people a target or I wouldn’t do it. Plenty of terrorists do so with regularity. While they are still cowardly in killing other innocents, their actions aren’t certain to result in the killing of their own.
December 28th, 2008 at 5:53 pmI think the UN should enforce the 150 sanctions they have against Israel.
December 28th, 2008 at 5:54 pmYou seem conflicted in your assessment. Is this not exactly what Israel is doing? At least if we listen to your version of history.
December 28th, 2008 at 5:57 pm@68, greenchili gives a bad name to some pretty good cuisine.
red chile’s delicioso, tambien…
December 28th, 2008 at 5:57 pmThere will NEVER be any peace in the Middle East UNTIL all
muslims acknowledge Israel’s RIGHT TO EXIST.
Oh please stop this bs. German jews have a right to exist as long as everyone else isn’t encroached upon. Israel is a country that was stolen from the Palestinians. Think what a better world it will be if the US kept their nose out of war.
Realize that fact.
December 28th, 2008 at 6:03 pmHamas is nothing more than a bunch of undisciplined, uneducated, pathetic street thugs. They deserve no more respect that similar gang members here on the streets of America. And just like many of the barios here, Palestine is controlled by intimidation and fear. Unfortunately the define Palestine. But unlike the gangs here, that primarily kill each other (in competition for illegal markets etc.) they conspire to kill people who have absolutely nothing to do with them whatsoever. Its just a shame Israel doesn’t end it once and for all. If you’re stupid enough to bring a knife to a gunfight you deserve what you get!
December 28th, 2008 at 6:13 pm“Israel is a country that was stolen from the
Palestinians”
This is a lie you have fallen into. Actually the
December 28th, 2008 at 6:18 pmland was stolen from the Jews who inhabited the
area initially. Please list a few of the ancient
“palestine” kings or leaders as I can’t remember
their names. Also would love to see some photos
of palestinian currency from say….just 75 years
ago.
Do you want to explain your point about currency, liedetector? What next? Show me some extant Palestinian land titles? The early settlers knew damn well that there were Palestinians in Palestine.
December 28th, 2008 at 6:27 pm6500 Israeli Troops mobilized
Over 300 dead in Gaza
Iran calls for Muslims, worldwide, to defend the Palestinians.
Death,fear, revenge,hatred,injustice, Political elections, a modern Military, … a Devil’s Brew forming in the Middle East.
Blessed are the Peacemakers..an endangered species .
December 28th, 2008 at 6:43 pmDear Liedetector,
From 5,000,000,000 B.C. until 1948 A.D., the Holy Lands were always known as Palestine. There was a small tribe of Jews who lived in Palestine but the land has always been known as Palestine, NOT Israel. You’ll never see Israel on any map anywhere until 1948 (when the evil Zionists terrorized Christians and Muslims from their Homeland.)
Please stop lying,
Delafield
December 28th, 2008 at 6:52 pmNow Israel bombed a University. Are we really going to stand by as a left in this country and pretend this is all self defense? This is them destroying the Palestinian nation.
December 28th, 2008 at 7:16 pmDr. Hussein twit Says:blah,blah,blah.
December 28th, 2008 at 7:22 pmDon’t know if you can wrap your puny braincell
around this but I am not a “GOP”. I never said
whether or not we belong in North America. I just
stated a historical fact and you spewed some
flawed hateful ignorance. Shall we go on?
#83 you are so right if only people would read the bible that would have been known. Israel played on those would say their religious but have never read the bible themselves. Genesis 21:32 Abraham and God gave the land to Palestine people, Edodus 13:17 Moses was told not to go threw Palestine’s land as he led the Jews out of Egypt and then 1 Samuel 27:1 David said he would hide from Saul in the land of Palestine. Now with the smoke and mirrors Israel was able for years to planet the lie of that land being theirs. Nothing good happens for those who use God’s name for lies and murder. Hamas was elected by the people of Palestine but Bush didn’t like who won so he and Israel are trying to force who they want as President for Palestine.
December 28th, 2008 at 7:28 pmMany Americans didn’t like Bush steal the election twice but we’re a so called Democracy as is Palestine who had a Democratic Election.
_____
Fred Says:
——————————————————————————–
upright left, Keep your own council, I am looking for a more positive outcome than anything you support.
That goes for your opinions on Palestine/Israel relations too. You have been proven to be on the failed end of this conflict.
Only Israel can stop the violence and they can’t do it by inflicting more violence on Palestine……it has failed.
December 28th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
______
Bud, you are consistently wrong if nothing else. Just because I believe Israel has the right to respond to an attack doesn’t mean I support everything they do. Again, “all or nothing” makes you wrong. I’m sure you’ll get it eventually. ;)
December 28th, 2008 at 7:40 pmDear Terran,
Israel will never worry about pressure from the United States:
“Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don’t worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it.”
- Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001
Delafield
December 28th, 2008 at 7:43 pmJackie- it’s “philistines” not “palestinians”…
December 28th, 2008 at 7:52 pmNo wonder ya’ll are so confused…
What’s the matter uprighty, don’t want to engage in conversation, just preach like ya know something?
try answering me at 79 where I tear up your illogical train of thought.
You know the one where you said this about the palestinians:
And my question to you was:
Why oh why aren’t you as upset with Israel for doing the exact same thing? Double standard perhaps?
I’m sure you’ll get it eventually.
December 28th, 2008 at 8:48 pmTry telling one of them that.
December 28th, 2008 at 8:52 pmIf you even read your bible you would know that the Jews have only ruled themselves twice in the known history of the world. Once under King David and Soloman and now……the previous was not in Palistine…. How do you explain your odd facts when you add in the truth?
December 28th, 2008 at 8:55 pmFred@ 93:
December 28th, 2008 at 10:10 pmI assumed my comment that you referenced made it clear that I didn’t condone anyone endangering the innocent by launching attacks from among them. I honestly didn’t realize that I had to list every nation or group individually in order for you to get that. I apologize. ;)
liedetector Says:
“Israel is a country that was stolen from the
Palestinians”
This is a lie you have fallen into. Actually the
land was stolen from the Jews who inhabited the
area initially. Please list a few of the ancient
“palestine” kings or leaders as I can’t remember
their names. Also would love to see some photos
of palestinian currency from say….just 75 years
ago.
I hope you are joking.
Answer me this: Were there Palestinian people before 1967?
I read the same bs too. So you surmised that if people don’t have “coinage” you can occupy their land?
liedetector Says:
Jackie- it’s “philistines” not “palestinians”…
No wonder ya’ll are so confused…
Wrong! They are the same.
Are all Jews, Israelis or are all Israelis, Jews?
The Israelis aren’t the Israelites. See how dumb this sounds.
Phoenician=Philistines=Palestinians
BTW-Are all Jews, Israelis or all Israelis, Jews?
Please answer…you rationale is amazing.
December 29th, 2008 at 12:31 amIsrael may indeed have a right to exist, but how many innocent people have surrendered their existence because of the extreme actions of this State? Many good Jews and Israeli citizens do not support this wholesale violence.
December 29th, 2008 at 12:36 amhussein toasterhead Says:
tokin librul Says:
Can you say “Ethnic cleansing”?
The Israelis are sponsoring the ethnic cleansing of ALL the Arabs from “Palestine.”
December 28th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
_________
Sponsoring? I’d say the United States is the one sponsoring this. Israel is the contracted mercenary.
Oh really?
Please don’t insult my intelligence.
December 29th, 2008 at 12:47 amMost Palestinians, like most Israelis, just want to live their lives, taking care and loving their families without walls or bombs.
December 29th, 2008 at 12:49 amIsrael is using US weapons to inflict this violence on Gaza.
December 29th, 2008 at 12:50 amIsrael use to you use French fighters, jb—they used them on the U.S.S. Liberty, in fact…but I digress. As much as I despise the war/weapons industry, and would love for U.S. not to export weapons to Israel, I can’t blame U.S. weapons sales for the attack on Gaza.
I can see how Palestinians would have harsh feelings for U.S. made fighters, though.
December 29th, 2008 at 1:28 amliedetector Says:
Jackie- it’s “philistines” not “palestinians”…
No wonder ya’ll are so confused…
December 28th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
_____________
Uh, no. Filistin or Philistin is Arabic for “Palestine.” Palestinians can’t call themselves “Palestinian” – they don’t have a letter “P” in their language. It’s the same people, moron.
By your argument, there are no Germans in Germany because they call their country “Deutschland.”
December 29th, 2008 at 6:37 amwiley Says:
What next? Show me some extant Palestinian land titles? The early settlers knew damn well that there were Palestinians in Palestine.
December 28th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
So did the United Nations. 726,800, to be exact.
December 29th, 2008 at 6:44 amI am utterly amazed by the ignorance spewed here. I attribute a lot of the misinformation and lack of knowledge to the faulty, almost non existent Israeli propaganda, as opposed to a well oiled (and blatantly false) Palestinian lie machine. Here are a few facts that are constantly ignored by both the international press and the average “Israel is evil” spewing idiots:
December 29th, 2008 at 7:50 am1. The south of Israel has been under rocket bombardment for the past 8 years.
2. Since the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza and the “democratic” election of Hamas these attacks have increased in frequency and deadliness. Thousands of rockets have landed on cities, killing and injuring many Israeli civilians (children included) and causing tremendous damage to property.
3. Residents of these cities have 45 seconds from the time an alarm is sounded until a rocket lands. This means that families, children, elderly and handicapped people have less than a minute to seek shelter before a rocket destroys their homes and takes their lives or limbs.
4. Generations of children who live in these cities have grown up in fear, with many studies showing severe psychological damage and developmental damage (motor skills etc.)
5. Israel has done nothing in retaliation for a few months now.
6. The recent increase in frequency and range have forced Israel to react.
7. Hamas, which is nothing more than a fanatical terrorist organization, has purposely increased these attacks in an attempt to lure Israel into a ground attack- they are counting on using the same strategies used by Hizbollah in Lebanon, i.e. a system of bunkers that would allow them to inflict many casualties on Israeli forces.
8. Hamas has a simple M.O.: fire rockets from within civilian populations and count on Israel not returning fire. Hide ammunition within schools and mosques and count on Israel abiding by international law and not returning fire. It is cowardly and shows their utter disdain for human life, even “their own people”.
Make no mistake; as an Israeli who served in the IDF I am well aware of the many tragic mistakes made by Israeli governments and do not shy away from Israel being partially responsible for the current situation. But the one sided hate and ignorance filled rhetoric spewed here on on many other sites cannot stand without a response. If you’re going to criticize and voice and opinion, at least have the facts on your side; at least attempt to see the full picture and enough with the “genocide” nonsense already.
97. Israel is a land, Jews are a people/religion.
December 29th, 2008 at 8:51 amBottom line is.. don’t launch rockets=don’t get
bombed. Live in peace and prosper.
105. they don’t care about facts. they prefer the
December 29th, 2008 at 8:58 amlies because it fits their agenda. they are
lemmings and repeat what the one before them says.
103.
“By your argument, there are no Germans in Germany
because they call their country “Deutschland.””
uh, no moron that would be a stupid argument (only
you could come up with that).
The arab (semitic) pals are not the same as the
December 29th, 2008 at 9:15 am(hellenic) philistines. Even most dumb people do
not try to call them the same. please take their
lead.
liedetector Says:
97. Israel is a land, Jews are a people/religion.
Bottom line is.. don’t launch rockets=don’t get
bombed. Live in peace and prosper.
December 29th, 2008 at 8:51 am
________
In other words, if the Israeli military would stop indiscriminately launching rockets from fighter jets and helicopters, they wouldn’t get bombed by Qassam firecrackers.
Sounds like a plan – perhaps they should try it sometime.
December 29th, 2008 at 9:44 am109, you just make my point for me. The “qassam firecrackers” as you call them killed a man yesterday, and another construction worker this morning. A few short months ago they cost a 10 year old child his leg. If you don’t know what you’re talking about, please shut up.
December 29th, 2008 at 10:05 am109. grow a braincell please. First, Qassams are
December 29th, 2008 at 10:23 amnot firecrackers. If you shoot someone with a .22
and someone else with a .45 they are likely both
equally dead.
you spewed “In other words, if the Israeli
military would stop indiscriminately launching
rockets from fighter jets and helicopters, they
wouldn’t get bombed by Qassam firecrackers.”
Are you that uneducated?? uninformed?? untruthful??
I admit…Israel is screwing up. They need to bomb
for the first and every rocket that is fired at
them…NOT wait for 3000+ rockets and then
retaliate.
I see the Jewish owned media has everything under control. Maybe we should say a prayer for all the Palestinian men, women, and children that the Jews will murder in the coming weeks.
December 29th, 2008 at 10:25 amliedetector Says:
The arab (semitic) pals are not the same as the
(hellenic) philistines. Even most dumb people do
not try to call them the same. please take their
lead.
December 29th, 2008 at 9:15 am
You’re right. Palestinians are not entirely Arab. Although they share some of the same genetic markers as Arabs due to intermarriage, they are actually of the same sub-haplotype as Hebrew and Hellenic people.
December 29th, 2008 at 10:28 amSapien6 Says:
109, you just make my point for me. The “qassam firecrackers” as you call them killed a man yesterday, and another construction worker this morning. A few short months ago they cost a 10 year old child his leg. If you don’t know what you’re talking about, please shut up.
December 29th, 2008 at 10:05 am
__________
Compared to the multimillion-dollar high-tech weaponry being fired at Palestinians daily and killing several HUNDRED Palestinians, the Qassam rockets are, indeed, firecrackers.
When hundreds of people start being killed by Qassams, then I’ll start to feel some sympathy. Until then, shut up.
December 29th, 2008 at 10:30 amliedetector Says:
They need to bomb
for the first and every rocket that is fired at
them…NOT wait for 3000+ rockets and then
retaliate.
December 29th, 2008 at 10:23 am
___________
Sounds an awful lot like collective punishment to me. Even genocide. Is your liedetector broken or what?
December 29th, 2008 at 10:33 amhussein toasterhead, you are beyond stupid.
December 29th, 2008 at 10:44 amBy your rationale, a sovereign nation can only defend itself if the civilian casualty count is above a certain number? So Israel should sit back, do nothing, wait for a rocket to hit a school or two, watch the body count mount, and only then respond? Or better yet, maybe Israel should not use the technology and weaponry at it’s disposal? Should we fire back rockets just to be “fair”? Idiot.
No one is asking for sympathy from you, but as I stated before, if you’re going to mouth off, at least be truthful. Or make sense.
There is so much muslim and arab land already available: egypt, lebanon, jordan, saudi arabia, yemen, kuwait, pakistan, etc. why can’t the jewish people have a small strip that’s smaller than many american cities? the palestinian territory was owned by the UK in the 1940s…the purchase was legal. if these other arab countries care about the palestinians so much, how come they are blockaded from entering and gaining citizenship in countries like iran? before any US citizens condemn israel, let’s keep in mind that you’re only in America due to the mass genocide of the native americans. maybe you should go back to europe?
December 29th, 2008 at 10:56 amSapien6 Says:
Here are a few facts that are constantly ignored by both the international press and the average “Israel is evil” spewing idiots:
1. The south of Israel has been under rocket bombardment for the past 8 years.
The whole of Palestine has been under Apartheid rule for the past 41 years. Your point?
2. Since the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza and the “democratic” election of Hamas these attacks have increased in frequency and deadliness. Thousands of rockets have landed on cities, killing and injuring many Israeli civilians (children included) and causing tremendous damage to property.
Know what else causes property damage? Israeli bulldozers indiscriminately tearing down Palestinian houses. Or concrete walls constructed through villages and cutting off farmers from their land.
Also, helicopter gunships. They cause property damage, too.
3. Residents of these cities have 45 seconds from the time an alarm is sounded until a rocket lands. This means that families, children, elderly and handicapped people have less than a minute to seek shelter before a rocket destroys their homes and takes their lives or limbs.
Don’t wanna get rocketed? Don’t live where you can get rocketed. Problem solved.
Or, better yet – dialogue with Hamas and Fatah and arrive at a peaceful solution that grants Palestinians a right to return to the lands that were stolen from them. Problem REALLY solved.
4. Generations of children who live in these cities have grown up in fear, with many studies showing severe psychological damage and developmental damage (motor skills etc.)
Care to read about the psychosocial effects of Israeli military incursions on Palestinian children?
5. Israel has done nothing in retaliation for a few months now.
Except blockade the entire Gaza Strip, preventing food, fuel, and medicine from reaching the people, and causing what the UN has described as a severe humanitarian emergency.
6. The recent increase in frequency and range have forced Israel to react.
And also the fact that Bush is leaving office in a month.
7. Hamas, which is nothing more than a fanatical terrorist organization, has purposely increased these attacks in an attempt to lure Israel into a ground attack- they are counting on using the same strategies used by Hizbollah in Lebanon, i.e. a system of bunkers that would allow them to inflict many casualties on Israeli forces.
Good short-term strategy, but I don’t see it doing them much good in the long run. Either way, the people will suffer.
8. Hamas has a simple M.O.: fire rockets from within civilian populations and count on Israel not returning fire. Hide ammunition within schools and mosques and count on Israel abiding by international law and not returning fire. It is cowardly and shows their utter disdain for human life, even “their own people”.
Hahaha since when has Israel ever abided by International Law?
This is where you’ve got Hamas’ strategy all wrong. It’s not about counting on Israel NOT returning fire. It’s about counting on them RETURNING fire, and then using the images of bloodied children to gain sympathy around the world.
It’s not a nice tactic, by any stretch, and does indeed show a heinous disdain for human life. But it’s really the only tactic they have available in such a lopsided conflict.
If you’re going to criticize and voice and opinion, at least have the facts on your side; at least attempt to see the full picture and enough with the “genocide” nonsense already.
December 29th, 2008 at 7:50 am
Interesting comment, coming from someone who criticized the Israeli propaganda machine for not spreading their message effectively enough.
December 29th, 2008 at 10:58 amOh and by the way, if qassams are firecrackers, why not fire a few in your neighborhood next 4th of July? I’m sure it will make for a very festive mood.
December 29th, 2008 at 11:00 amSapien6 Says:
So Israel should sit back, do nothing, wait for a rocket to hit a school or two, watch the body count mount, and only then respond? Or better yet, maybe Israel should not use the technology and weaponry at it’s disposal? Should we fire back rockets just to be “fair”? Idiot.
December 29th, 2008 at 10:44 am
______________
Do nothing? No, I didn’t say that. There are a lot of things Israel should do – dialogue with Hamas, remove the illegal settlements and the Apartheid wall, give Palestinians the right to return to the lands that they were driven from in 1948, etc.
That’ll stop the rocket attacks much more effectively.
December 29th, 2008 at 11:01 amSapien6 Says:
Oh and by the way, if qassams are firecrackers, why not fire a few in your neighborhood next 4th of July? I’m sure it will make for a very festive mood.
December 29th, 2008 at 11:00 am
_________
Oh, nice… So now you’re advocating terror attacks on American towns and cities. And yet you want to claim that you folks are the “good guys.”
Real nice, pal. Real nice…
December 29th, 2008 at 11:03 amDon’t wanna get rocketed? Don’t live where you can get rocketed. Problem solved
you’re a retard. as israelis move closer to the innermost part of the tiny strip of land they have, hamas will move their rocket launchers closer too. hamas is looking to kill israelis, not just bomb vacant outskirts of the country.
December 29th, 2008 at 11:04 amneopro Says:
you’re a retard. as israelis move closer to the innermost part of the tiny strip of land they have, hamas will move their rocket launchers closer too. hamas is looking to kill israelis, not just bomb vacant outskirts of the country.
December 29th, 2008 at 11:04 am
____________
Bummer. Guess the Israelis should’ve thought about that before they started stealing land and committing genocide.
December 29th, 2008 at 11:07 amhussein toasterhead,
where should the jewish people go?
December 29th, 2008 at 11:13 amneopro Says:
hussein toasterhead,
where should the jewish people go?
December 29th, 2008 at 11:13 am
Wherever they want, as long as they do it legally.
December 29th, 2008 at 11:15 amhussein toasterhead,
the palestinian territory was owned by the UK in 1946. the formation of israel was legal. are you an american citizen? the US was founded on the genocide of native americans. maybe you should move back to europe as your presence in the US is illegal (unless you are native american). how come palestinians are blocked from moving to other arab countries (like iran, who say they are pro-palestinian even though they too kill sunnis and dont let palestinians into their borders)?
December 29th, 2008 at 11:19 am114. “Sounds an awful lot like collective punishment to me. Even genocide. Is your liedetector broken or what?”
nope, I respond to you don’t I? that proves it’s
December 29th, 2008 at 11:22 amworking. :)
Here we go again.
The whole of Palestine has been under Apartheid rule for the past 41 years. Your point?
In 1947 the UN decided to divide Palestine between the Jews and Arabs. Guess who didn’t want to go along with that and launched a war which they bitterly lost? I’ll help you out, it wasn’t the Jews. And once again, you won’t let the facts confuse you. Either Palestine has been “under apartheid rule for 60 years” or “Gaza and the west bank have been under apartheid rule for 41 years”.
Know what else causes property damage? Israeli bulldozers indiscriminately tearing down Palestinian houses. Or concrete walls constructed through villages and cutting off farmers from their land.
No argument there. Damage and destruction are equally painful regardless of who inflicts them.
Don’t wanna get rocketed? Don’t live where you can get rocketed. Problem solved.
This is too dumb to respond to. You’re probably one of those idiots who think women who get raped “are asking for it”.
Care to read about the psychosocial effects of Israeli military incursions on Palestinian children?
I have been there. I have seen the damage. Once again, no argument from me.
Except blockade the entire Gaza Strip, preventing food, fuel, and medicine from reaching the people, and causing what the UN has described as a severe humanitarian emergency.
You’re right, we should let the suicide bombers walk into another restaurant and blow up women and children. Are you aware of the fact that Israel allowed humanitarian aide into the Gaza strip as late as Friday? Are you aware of the fact that the Palestinians have tried to blow up the power plant in Israel that provides them with electricity? Why won’t Hamas smuggle food and medicine through their tunnels? Will only rockets fit?
Or to use your rationale, “if you don’t want to starve or die of disease, don’t live in a blockaded area”.
And also the fact that Bush is leaving office in a month.
Thank god and good riddance to bad rubbish.
Good short-term strategy, but I don’t see it doing them much good in the long run. Either way, the people will suffer.
Not that Hammas give a rat’s ass about the people suffering. After all, we were all put on this world to die for one fanatic cause or another.
Hahaha since when has Israel ever abided by International Law?
Again, painful ignorance. Israel’s attorney general decreed several months ago that firing at rocket launch sites inside civilian populations is in violation of international law. Guess what? The IDF did not fire one shot, and believe me, the Israeli public was not happy.
It’s not a nice tactic, by any stretch, and does indeed show a heinous disdain for human life. But it’s really the only tactic they have available in such a lopsided conflict.
December 29th, 2008 at 11:25 amBullshit. It is a choice, like any other. They could just have easily negotiated, as you suggested. Disdain for human life, on either side, is reprehensible.
hussein toasterhead Says:
Sapien6 Says:
Oh and by the way, if qassams are firecrackers, why not fire a few in your neighborhood next 4th of July? I’m sure it will make for a very festive mood.
December 29th, 2008 at 11:00 am
_________
Oh, nice… So now you’re advocating terror attacks on American towns and cities. And yet you want to claim that you folks are the “good guys.”
Real nice, pal. Real nice…
Now we are getting somewhere. So the rockets ARE
December 29th, 2008 at 11:26 amterror attacks. Thanks for admitting that. And NO,
the OP was not “advocating” that but suggesting
that your claim qassams=firecrackers is bogus..
but of course, intelligent people can figure that
out for themselves and will not need it spoon fed
and explained to them.
neopro Says:
the palestinian territory was owned by the UK in 1946. the formation of israel was legal.
The formation was legal. The expulsion of 700,000 Palestinans from their homeland was not. The conquering and colonization of the West Bank and Gaza Strip was not.
are you an american citizen? the US was founded on the genocide of native americans. maybe you should move back to europe as your presence in the US is illegal (unless you are native american).
Ok, done. I just moved back to Europe. That was easy.
how come palestinians are blocked from moving to other arab countries (like iran, who say they are pro-palestinian even though they too kill sunnis and dont let palestinians into their borders)?
December 29th, 2008 at 11:19 am
Iran isn’t an Arab country, moron. But pro-Palestinian countries do not often accept Palestinians from moving there in order to keep the pressure on Israel to deal fairly with the humanitarian situation it created. If Lebanon and Egypt and Iran and Pakistan and all those other “Arab” countries you cited accepted Palestinians en masse, they’d be enabling Israel to complete their genocide.
December 29th, 2008 at 11:26 amDo the people who use the term “genocide” even know what it means? And hussein toasterhead, don’t twist my words. I said that if qassams are firecrackers as you claim, you should feel confident firing them in your neighborhood- after all, it isn’t as if they can hurt anyone, right?
December 29th, 2008 at 11:30 am“But pro-Palestinian countries do not often accept Palestinians from moving there in order to keep the pressure on Israel to deal fairly with the humanitarian situation it create”d. If
LOL, yes let the little people suffer so we can make a point.
sounds like pro-pal logic to me.
Lebanon and Egypt and Iran and Pakistan and all those other “Arab” countries you cited accepted Palestinians en masse, they’d be enabling Israel to complete their genocide.
Number 1, Israel is NOT trying to complete a genocide
December 29th, 2008 at 11:34 am(or they would and could).
Number 2, moving=genocide??you are a laughable fool
Iran is indeed an arab country. it is a shia muslim country which rules by a theocracy through shariah law. i have friends from iran, and they proudly call themselves arab (as they should).
do you know what genocide even means? it’s the total erradication of a race of people. how would letting the palestinians move to other arab countries complete israels “genocide”? diaspora (mass migration), maybe. genocide, not even close. israel would have to hunt down the palestinians once they were in other arab countries for it to be genocide. do you understand the difference?
December 29th, 2008 at 11:35 amBut pro-Palestinian countries do not often accept Palestinians from moving there in order to keep the pressure on Israel to deal fairly with the humanitarian situation it created.
This has got to be the most naive statement I’ve read in ages. The Arab states want nothing to do with the Palestinians, especially under Hammas rule; just look at Egypt’s reactions over the past few days. The fired at Palestinians who tried to cross the Rafah border.
And to hussein toasterhead: I will be the first in line with you to knock down the settlements. They are nothing but a provocation and one of the major obstacles to peace.
December 29th, 2008 at 11:38 amThe Persians I know are proudly Persian and consider themselves not at all Arab.
December 29th, 2008 at 11:44 am“If somebody was sending rockets into my house where my two daughters sleep at night, I would do everything to stop that, and would expect Israel to do the same thing.”
Barack Obama said those words in July while visiting Israel as a Presidential candidate.
December 29th, 2008 at 11:51 amSeems to me to be a failure of leadership on all sides.
December 29th, 2008 at 11:53 amI am confident that Obama will do a better job of promoting Peace and real solutions in the Middle East than we have seen for the last 8 years.
December 29th, 2008 at 12:01 pmIf anyone is capable of proposing a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian mess, it is definitely Obama. Bush spent the last 8 years trying to make the conflict even worse
December 29th, 2008 at 12:04 pmReally, Was the British occupation of Iraq, India, America, etc. legal.
Was the invasion of Iraq legal? See, it aint black and white.
The simple and plain truth is that the Palestinians had lived where Israel is now located for 3000 years. Their homes were taken and now citizens of Israel live in them. The children of dead palestinians still have keys to those homes.
Legal…..I don’t think so.
December 29th, 2008 at 12:08 pmSeems like the Palestinians are fighting back the only way they can.
December 29th, 2008 at 12:26 pmOnce again we have a repeat of the dreadful warmonger’s rearing their ugly head’s…I remember well when Israel bombed the crap out of Lebanon and my post condemning their action’s caused TP to ban me for week’s…Hundred’s of women and children were killed in the street’s from Israel’s bomb’s…There is nothing good about war…And since then nothing good about Israel.
All this talk from the viseting war monger’s is proof posative they are the one’s that do not see..One admitedly is from Israel….It’s justafied war by that troll’s account because a couple people in Israel died from a rocket that was lobbed over the fence by people with out food, water, electricity or humanitarian aid…Israel has held these people like prisoner’s, starving them to death and then to add insult to extreme injury they again bomb the crap out of their country using USA made bomb’s backed with our tax money….Close to 300 have died in the last few day’s….Oh wait, waiting for school to let out in Gaza and bombing all their children and women do’s not count because they are not the one or two Israel citizen’s…Get Flucking real troll’s…I am sick of seeing innocent people being murdered in my name….You can not put a good spin on 100 to one death count’s…Nor the USA stamp on those damn bomb’s……P.B. & J
December 29th, 2008 at 12:36 pmIranians are Persians, not Arabs. Even the people at Free Republic say so. There may be Arabs living in Iran now, but the Persians were around long before the Arabs.
December 29th, 2008 at 12:38 pmOnce again I would like to ask why do we kiss Israel’s ass so much? Why is every conflict in which they find themselves someone else’s fault? I would really like to know. Why is it the official policy of the US that Israel is always right, and whoever they are attacking is always wrong, no matter what?
December 29th, 2008 at 12:40 pmneopro Says:
do you know what genocide even means? it’s the total erradication of a race of people. how would letting the palestinians move to other arab countries complete israels “genocide”? diaspora (mass migration), maybe. genocide, not even close. israel would have to hunt down the palestinians once they were in other arab countries for it to be genocide. do you understand the difference?
December 29th, 2008 at 11:35 am
___________
Yes, I do know what genocide means. It’s not the total eradication of a race of people. It’s the attempted eradication of a race of people. Unless you don’t want to consider the Holocaust and the massacre in Rwanda and the mass killings of Armenians genocide, either. There are still Jews and Hutus and Armenians, after all.
And there are multiple ways to achieve the goals of genocide. One is to physically kill all the people of that race. The other is to functionally kill all the people of that race by systematically separating them from their culture, traditions, and their land.
This is what’s happening in Palestine, and is the reason why I and many others term it a genocide.
December 29th, 2008 at 12:44 pmneopro Says:
Iran is indeed an arab country. it is a shia muslim country which rules by a theocracy through shariah law. i have friends from iran, and they proudly call themselves arab (as they should).
December 29th, 2008 at 11:35 am
___________
You have some extremely stupid friends.
December 29th, 2008 at 12:46 pmGood post Wayne, I agree 143.#…This madness will not stop unless we demand Israel stop their war like way’s with their neighbor’s…..Then there is the, WE must also stop our war like way’s with the world….There in a nut shell is the problem…We are them…Blessings
December 29th, 2008 at 12:47 pmIsrael is no longer a nation of “abused” people. They are aggressors and display a severe lack of humanity. They have kept the people of Gaza virtually cut off from basics supplies such as medicine, food and fuel for months, of course this is ignored by most of our media. If you want to know what Israel is really like you have to read the foreign press.
December 29th, 2008 at 12:48 pmThis kind of willfull ignorance is rampant among the racist haters and war mongers Wayne. They are all just brown to them.
To top that off, they want to be taken seriously…..
December 29th, 2008 at 12:52 pmFred,
It also helped the Bush Administration spread the meme about “Arab terrorists”. If people think the Iranians are “Arabs”, then it’s a simple step to accuse any one of them of being “an Arab terrorist”. Anyone who’s been paying attention (and who has an IQ in the three-digit range) knows that the Bush Administration “does not do truth”. The truth is often the opposite of what they want people to believe, so they try to avoid it at all costs. Even at the cost of more than four thousand of our troops’ lives.
December 29th, 2008 at 12:58 pmApparently, some Iranians are also Jews.
While Jewish communities in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Egypt, Morocco and Algeria have all but vanished, Iran is home to 25,000 – some here say 35,000 – Jews.
Tehran has 11 functioning synagogues, many of them with Hebrew schools. It has two kosher restaurants, and a Jewish hospital, an old-age home and a cemetery. There is a Jewish representative in the Iranian parliament. There is a Jewish library with 20,000 titles, its reading room decorated with a photograph of the Ayatollah Khomeini.
Khomeini met with the Jewish community upon his return from exile in Paris and issued a ”fatwa” decreeing that the Jews were to be protected. Similar edicts also protect Iran’s tiny Christian minority.
December 29th, 2008 at 12:59 pmLet’s see…when we don’t fire rockets into Israel
December 29th, 2008 at 1:10 pmwe don’t get bombed…hey abu, let’s fire up that
rocket! whaaaaaa, we got bombed. common sense is
all it takes. no rockets=no bombs. Yes, it is
Israels fault for not letting the pals fire 1000’s
of rockets at them with impunity. Yes, it is
Israels fault that all the aid sent by U.S. (and
other countries to a lesser extent) is used to buy
rockets instead of food and medicine. And Yes, it’s
Israels fault that they won’t just line up and
march into the sea without putting up so much of
a fuss. I guess we are all in agreement :)
Khomeini met with the Jewish community upon his return from exile in Paris and issued a ”fatwa” decreeing that the Jews were to be protected. Similar edicts also protect Iran’s tiny Christian minority.
Wasn’t that nice of him? Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t Christians, Jews, and Muslims worship, essentially, the same God? Why would any of these religions have to remind its followers not to harm followers of the other faiths, all of whom believe in the same God (but who call Him different names)?
Centuries ago, about the only people who knew how to read were members of the clergy. And now that literacy is at an historic high world-wide, why do we need special people to “interpret” what the Holy Books say? Shouldn’t most people be able to read them on their own now? Their system (control of peoples’ lives through control of Religion) only worked when most people couldn’t read the Holy Books for themselves, and had to rely on the “so-called experts” to tell them what their God wanted of them. If people would personally read the Books and decide for themselves what they say (and American right-wing Christians, I’m thinking of you here), maybe more people would know that the God they worship doesn’t want them to kill one another.
December 29th, 2008 at 1:12 pmYour moniker is failing you for your own personal use……
The oppression of the Palestinians goes way beyond airstrikes and bombs. It begins with cutting off their food and water…..access to work, etc. other civilized things that I’m sure you’re not interested in hearing about since it will make your moniker look foolish.
Remember, Palestinians have been living in “refugee camps” You know, tents and such. Under Israeli rule. Oppression comes in many colors.
can you detect the truth?
December 29th, 2008 at 1:21 pmEnter stage reich another stupid warmonging troll….
December 29th, 2008 at 1:21 pmTracy, I doubt it…they haven’t figured out the
December 29th, 2008 at 1:21 pmcorrelation between rockets fired and bombs
dropped yet.
I wonder if the Israeli’s finally realized that if they want peace that they are going to have to get along with thier neighbors…..otherwise I have to assume that they like war and living in fear.
December 29th, 2008 at 1:22 pmWhy would any of these religions have to remind its followers not to harm followers of the other faiths,
…a Long and Tragic History of Ignorance,Intolerance,& Bigotry.
True in India. True in the Middle East. True in Ireland.
The only saving grace is that people AREN’T Born that way.
December 29th, 2008 at 1:23 pmSorry, that was directed to #153 on my #155 post…
December 29th, 2008 at 1:23 pmFred, i detect you. We send them millions upon
December 29th, 2008 at 1:23 pmmillions and they choose to live in tents. They
won’t even give peace a chance.
The failure is that of the international community and the “leader of the free world”.
Unless a solution is IMPOSED from the outside, the warring will not end. There is no desire for peace between the leaders but only among those doing the bleeding.
In the meantime, the U.S. should stop supplying armaments to Israel and demand that they dispose of the cluster bombs that we so stupidly supplied.
Is it not possible to trace the launch site of a rocket? It is. Returning fire directly to the launch site might make people in the area stop future rocket launches. After all, the Gaza strip is the size of a postage stamp.
December 29th, 2008 at 1:24 pmHi Witch, don’t you just love the smell of fear and hate that the trolls bring to the table.
Their only solution is for everyone to bow down and kiss the imperialists asses….then everyone will be happy.
Israel is the only one who can stop the violence. Their unwillingness to do so tells us that they do not want peace.
December 29th, 2008 at 1:25 pmMillion’s and million’s of bomb’s, right.?…Jeebos..Your own lie’s are not detected by your self…..
December 29th, 2008 at 1:26 pmBack at ya Fred, I have to leave the feeding frenzy or troll funfest…Chore’s to do..Happy play day with the mentally challenged warmonger’s…LOL…Bessingsl
December 29th, 2008 at 1:31 pmWitch- caught you in a lie (of course)Since 1993, Palestinians have received more than $2.2 billion in U.S. economic assistance via USAID projects – more than from any other donor country. I don’t need to lie, I have no agenda. I
December 29th, 2008 at 1:34 pmblame the pals for firing rockets AND I blame
Israel for waiting until hundreds or even thousands
of rockets are fired before retaliating. They should
bomb immediately when the first and every rocket
is fired. I find fault on both sides… why can
you only find fault with one side??? because of
your agenda. actually, it is someone elses agenda…
you are just a lemming.
Tracy said:
You actually think that the SANE Palestinians were in favor of launching rockets into Israel knowing full well they would get pounded for it?
I can’t help but wonder if the average Palestinian has any more power over Hamas to stop shooting those homemade rockets than we do to stop our government from dropping bombs wherever they wish to.
December 29th, 2008 at 1:38 pmSolution Found!!! o.k., heres how it works….
December 29th, 2008 at 1:46 pmpals/hamass quits firing rockets, homocide bombers,
etc. Israel will quit dropping bombs. Pals will use
aid sent by U.S. and others for food and medicine…
and then we can work from there. OR is the only
solution for the Israelis to line up and march
into the sea…discuss.
As far as how Hamas won the last election, this may provide a clue:
“But if the first duty of a government is to protect its people’s lives, liberty and property, then the Palestinian Authority has never deserved to be called a government. Since its inception, it has not been able to protect Palestinians from lethal daily attacks by the Israeli army in the heart of their towns and refugee camps, or to prevent a single dunum of land being seized for settlements, nor to save a single sapling of the more than one million trees uprooted by Israel in the past ten years. Rather, in Israel’s conception the Palestinian Authority was supposed to crush Palestinian resistance to make the occupied territories safe for continued Israeli colonization.”
link from 1-26-06
December 29th, 2008 at 1:48 pmHere’s a CLUE..The Israelis don’t “want” to expand
December 29th, 2008 at 1:51 pmbut they don’t want terrorists hiding behind trees
and shooting rockets.
‘Israeli authorities imposed a crippling blockade on Gaza after Hamas won democratic polls in 2006, then tightened it when the movement routed forces loyal to the rival Western-backed Fatah faction in 2007.’
I realize that Israel refused to deal with Hamas when they won the elections, but, perhaps if they’d been able to find a way to open up a dialogue with them instead of imposing the “crippling blockade” Hamas could have slowly begun to act like a real government. I imagine that transforming oneself from a radicalized fighter to a politician doesn’t happen overnight. We’ll never know now.
December 29th, 2008 at 1:58 pm“Israel is an occupying power,” Ashwari angrily told CNN’s John Roberts on Monday. “In Gaza, they’ve been under siege for months now, deprived of the most basic needs. … And now Israel has decided that if the victims do not lie down and die quietly, it’s going to shell them relentlessly from the air.”
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December 29th, 2008 at 1:59 pmDecember 29th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Defenders of the indefensible.
The only people on the planet who believe the Israeli “defence” gambit are the enablers in the USA. The rest of the world knows the truth.
When everyone else disagrees with you, it’s time to re-evaluate your opinion. You could be wrong.
150 UN Sanctions against Israel……these need to be enforced.
t5 supports terrorists……the Israelies.
December 29th, 2008 at 2:01 pmThe Terrorist State of Israel needs to be held accountable for Crimes against Humanity and War Crimes!
December 29th, 2008 at 2:04 pmRight…..we believe that……what reason would we have to not believe that!!!!
my lie detector is wailing every time this person posts.
December 29th, 2008 at 2:05 pm“I can’t help but wonder if the average Palestinian has any more power over Hamas to stop shooting those homemade rockets than we do to stop our government from dropping bombs wherever they wish to.”
December 29th, 2008 at 2:06 pmI wondered also but after watching videos of them
celebrating deaths of others I no longer wonder.
I notice you put the word “homemade” in front of
the word rockets to make it sound like they are
less deadly that a factory OEM rocket. If I put a
bullet in a piece of pipe and hit it with a hammer
while aiming at someones head they will be just as
dead as if I use a S&W .45 . Let’s stop all the
charade and just line up the Israelis and march
them into the sea. That’ll make everyone happy,
right? :)
December 29th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
uh, they had democratic elections…….they are trying but you and your ilk do not want them to succeed. You guys have been destroying democracies around the globe for years, it’s what neocons do. You support facists states against democratically elected officials……that’s why you have been put out of power.
December 29th, 2008 at 2:08 pmThere was a democratic election where Hamas won. The USA and Israel didn’t like the result of this democratic election so they punished the Palestinian people. They ignored Hamas instead bringing it to the political scene. They begun to deal with the Fatha leader who lost the election. They closed Gaza transforming it in a giant prison. Hunger a misery is what the USA and Israel delivered to the Palestinian people. When they react, whith legitimacy (A thing the neither the US nor Israel possesses!) they are branded “TERRORISTS”.
December 29th, 2008 at 2:11 pmThe Terrorist State of Israel and its supporters are guilty of WAR CRIMES and CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY!
Little nazi humor……why am I not surprised. There are many left leaning Jews who stand opposed to the Israeli government…..they are mostly in jail…..you were saying.
Oh yeah, you want to make this about race….project much?
December 29th, 2008 at 2:11 pmFred, that is not a lie detector in your hand
December 29th, 2008 at 2:17 pmand it is not “wailing” when it shoots that stuff
in your mouth. Now that we got that straight….
I agree with you terrorist supporters…Let’s line
em up and get them marching…
Fred-don’t understand the race issue you have.
December 29th, 2008 at 2:18 pmIsraeli is a nationality not a race. Line em up,
MOve em out..Rawhide!
Correction, I support freedom fighters…..you support oppression and terrorism on civilians…helpless civilians at that.
See, that’s the difference. Israel has options and capabilities. They use them to disrupt any chance at peace.
What resources do the Palestinians have? None except the crumbs that the rest of the world hands them between air raids by Israel.
December 29th, 2008 at 2:22 pmliedetector Says:
flagged.
t5, see what you have allied yourself with?
December 29th, 2008 at 2:25 pm93. beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep
December 29th, 2008 at 2:27 pmbeep beep beep beep beep beep
beep beep beep beep beep beep
beep beep beep beep beep beep
beep beep beep beep beep beep
beep beep beep beep beep beep
beep beep beep beep beep beep
beep beep beep beep beep beep
“What resources do the Palestinians have? None except the crumbs that the rest of the world hands them between air raids by Israel.”
and just think (seriously, try it), if they stop shooting rockets there will be a lot of “between” time for
the world to hand them more crumbs and if they
quit buying rockets maybe they would have enough
crumbs. Naaawww, line em up, move em out.
94. nobody aligns themselves with me and I align with no one.
December 29th, 2008 at 2:30 pmAll I want is what you want freddie, line em up and move em out, right? you converted me and I will always be grateful to you for that. keep em marching dude!!
Tracy__5 Says:
Do you have ANYTHING (link or article) that suggests that Israel is interested in peace with Hammas?
See, you kick ass and take names type have lost. You have failed.
There has been peaceful times in Israel/Palestine but it never occured when the US had a republican president….
This is a crisis being created deliberatly because Israel knows that this must stop and after bush is gone there will be no one to support what is going on there right now……
you lose, it was inevitable.
December 29th, 2008 at 2:32 pmSee, even you know the truth….you just don’t want it to be so. Why is it not a legitimate reaction? Why is Israel’s attacks legitimate.
You stand of shifting sand……
December 29th, 2008 at 2:34 pmYou seem conflicted in your facts. Israel is helpless, please……
Compare thier helplessness to the Palestinian’s helplessness and you look like the fool you are.
December 29th, 2008 at 2:35 pmThe truth is that if Israel wanted peace, there would be peace tommorrow. Any other opinion is foolishness.
December 29th, 2008 at 2:38 pm103. that’s right freddie cause you know all and
December 29th, 2008 at 2:42 pmonly your opinion counts and it is up to you
to decide who is right or wrong. that’s why I love you
so. line em up, move em out!!! buddy ;)
Juan Cole has a question. He wants to know what Israel’s “end game” is:
“If the Gaza population doesn’t turn on Hamas, and Israeli measures don’t destroy the organization (which they helped create and fund back in the late 1980s when they wanted a foil to the secular PLO), then what? They’ll just go on half-starving Gaza’s children for decades? Malnourished children have diminished IQ and poor impulse control. That would make them ideal suicide bombers.”
Remember how well Israel’s last bombardment of Lebanon went?
Me, I’m curious why Israel bombed the University.
December 29th, 2008 at 2:46 pmWho told you that lie? liedetector?
December 29th, 2008 at 2:47 pm“You actually think that U.S. policy in regards to Israel is going to change when Obama boy is sworn in?”
December 29th, 2008 at 2:50 pmYes, we lemmings are going to be very upset if he
don’t line em up and move em out like freddie wants.
freddie is a gaaawwd :)
Well yeah, it’s not the neocons running things now, yeah, duh.
You seem to not remember that there have been peacful times there when American presidents that weren’t neocons were involved. Do you not remember the peace in Israel under Carter and Clinton? Also North Korea, Ireland…..
Peace is a goal for democratic presidents……war is the only solution that republicans have….and it is a failed policy….
December 29th, 2008 at 2:51 pmThe principles of the Hamas are stated in their Covenant or Charter, given in full below. Following are highlights.
“Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.”
now we know you are lying tracy cause it says right here
December 29th, 2008 at 2:52 pmthat hamas loves Israel.
FREDDIE IS GAAAWWD!!!! line em up, move em out :)
December 29th, 2008 at 2:55 pmhttp://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm
line em up, move em out…
December 29th, 2008 at 2:57 pmfrom the BBC:
‘What prompted this upsurge in fighting was, paradoxically, a battle to determine the conditions of a new truce. Hamas has been very unhappy with the way things worked last time.
Rocket fire into Israel did subside considerably. But the crossings only opened sporadically. In practical terms, Israel’s economic blockade got ever tighter.
No wonder, then, that many Palestinians saw Israel’s withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in 2005 as largely irrelevant. Israel still controls the Gaza Strip’s air-space and its maritime approaches, along with nearly all of the land crossings into the territory.’
December 29th, 2008 at 2:57 pmliedetector, you saying it don’t make is so. Who do you think you are dick cheney?
provide a link.
also, get some mental health help.
gotta go, will let someone else play whack a troll for the rest of the day. Have fun with them, they are hilarious today.
December 29th, 2008 at 2:57 pmNobody here, ever here, or that will be here is as
December 29th, 2008 at 2:57 pmsmart as freddie. Just wanted to say that freddie
since maybe not everyone will know that after
reading your posts)…line em up, move em out…
You are just willfully ignorant. That’s ok. I’m used to dealing with people like you.
December 29th, 2008 at 2:59 pmSorry freddie. I didn’t take time to see which way the site leans. Did I go to a bad place? I’ve never been there,
December 29th, 2008 at 3:00 pmjust punched “hamas charter” into the googler and it’s the first one. should I dig sown to page 100 or so?
line em up, move em out…
That’s funny, only one other person on this thread has agreed with you…….You seem to be the only one truly in the dark….oh yeah, you have t5…..enjoy your solitude.
I have flagged your comments for anti-semetic remarks.
December 29th, 2008 at 3:03 pmthey get proved wrong and leave…happens everytime.
December 29th, 2008 at 3:03 pmLOL anti-semitic :) You mean we can’t line em up and move em out?? we gotta just let our buddies pick em off a few at a time with the firecrackers right? otherwise we are
December 29th, 2008 at 3:05 pmanti-semitic?
o.k. I understand :)
For those of you who can’t get over the terror of Palestinians launching those rockets, just think of it as an “uprising”—like the much ballyhooed uprising in the Warsaw ghetto.
December 29th, 2008 at 3:08 pmOne of the odd things about this mess is that it may help Livni stay in power in Israel.
‘Most polls predict Netanyahu will win the election. But a survey televised on Sunday night, a day after Israel launched its Gaza offensive, showed Livni gaining ground on Netanyahu’s Likud party, and trailing him by just two parliamentary seats.’
Netanyahu is even more right-wing than Livni is.
December 29th, 2008 at 3:17 pmFrom this story about the conflict…
JERUSALEM, Dec. 24 (Xinhua) — Israel’s Likud Chairman Benjamin Netanyahu promised Wednesday that he would act to topple the Hamas leadership if elected prime minister, local daily Ha’aretz reported on its website.
Earlier, Israeli Foreign Minister and ruling Kadima Chairwoman Tzipi Livni made similar remarks to Netanyahu’s regarding Hamas.
On Sunday, Livni said that she would lead the government to topple the Hamas’ regime in Gaza Strip if elected prime minister in the February parliamentary election.
“The people of Israel are threatened, missiles are falling,” she said to Kadima members. “I won’t say what moves should be made. There is no calm in Hamas-controlled Gaza. Israel, and a government under my leadership, would topple Hamas in Gaza with military, economic and diplomatic means.”
She vowed that “Israel must respond to restore its deterrence and stop the fire as long as it is fired upon”, adding “that’s what the government must do, and will do, under my leadership.”
It sounds to me like Israel does not want to pursue peace with Hamas.
December 29th, 2008 at 3:18 pmYep
December 29th, 2008 at 3:19 pmSorry, forgot to put the URL in the link above.
December 29th, 2008 at 3:19 pmI agree with you, Fred, about the official US policy toward Israel once Obama becomes president. I do not believe Obama wants to pursue policies that just encourage more violence in the world. People like us know that violence is not the best way to resolve conflicts, but people like the trolls look for any excuse in the world to use violence. Deep down, it’s because they are violent people.
December 29th, 2008 at 3:22 pm“It sounds to me like Israel does not want to pursue peace with Hamas.”
December 29th, 2008 at 3:27 pmpeace with hamas. Yes, and all the Israelis have to
do is get in a big line and march to the West, right?
Wayne, it seems that promoting violence is all they have left. Too bad that such people have had some say in our country recently. Look where it has taken us. Sad.
December 29th, 2008 at 3:27 pmThe International Laws of Belligerent Occupation
Belligerent occupation is governed by The Hague Regulations of 1907, as well as by the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949, and the customary laws of belligerent occupation. Security Council Resolution 1322 (2000), paragraph 3 continued: “Calls upon Israel, the occupying Power, to abide scrupulously by its legal obligations and its responsibilities under the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in a Time of War of 12 August 1949;…” Again, the Security Council vote was 14 to 0, becoming obligatory international law.
The Fourth Geneva Convention applies to the West Bank, to the Gaza Strip, and to the entire City of Jerusalem, in order to protect the Palestinians living there. The Palestinian People living in this Palestinian Land are “protected persons” within the meaning of the Fourth Geneva Convention. All of their rights are sacred under international law.
There are 149 substantive articles of the Fourth Geneva Convention that protect the rights of every one of these Palestinians living in occupied Palestine. The Israeli Government is currently violating, and has since 1967 been violating, almost each and every one of these sacred rights of the Palestinian People recognized by the Fourth Geneva Convention. Indeed, violations of the Fourth Geneva Convention are war crimes.
So this is not a symmetrical situation. As matters of fact and of law, the gross and repeated violations of Palestinian rights by the Israeli army and Israeli settlers living illegally in occupied Palestine constitute war crimes. Conversely, the Palestinian People are defending Themselves and their Land and their Homes against Israeli war crimes and Israeli war criminals, both military and civilian.
The U.N. Human Rights Commission
Indeed, it is far more serious than that. On 19 October 2000 a Special Session of the U.N. Commission on Human Rights adopted a Resolution set forth in U.N. Document E/CN.4/S-5/L.2/Rev. 1, “Condemning the provocative visit to Al-Haram Al-Sharif on 28 September 2000 by Ariel Sharon, the Likud party leader, which triggered the tragic events that followed in occupied East Jerusalem and the other occupied Palestinian territories, resulting in a high number of deaths and injuries among Palestinian civilians.” The U.N. Human Rights Commission then said it was “[g]ravely concerned” about several different types of atrocities inflicted by Israel upon the Palestinian People, which it denominated “war crimes, flagrant violations of international humanitarian law and crimes against humanity.”
In operative paragraph 1 of its 19 October 2000 Resolution, the U.N. Human Rights Commission then: “Strongly condemns the disproportionate and indiscriminate use of force in violation of international humanitarian law by the Israeli occupying Power against innocent and unarmed Palestinian civilians…including many children, in the occupied territories, which constitutes a war crime and a crime against humanity;…” And in paragraph 5 of its 19 October 2000 Resolution, the U.N. Human Rights Commission: “Also affirms that the deliberate and systematic killing of civilians and children by the Israeli occupying authorities constitutes a flagrant and grave violation of the right to life and also constitutes a crime against humanity;…” Article 68 of the United Nations Charter had expressly required the U.N.’s Economic and Social Council to “set up” this Commission “for the promotion of human rights.”
Israel’s War Crimes against Palestinians
We all have a general idea of what a war crime is, so I am not going to elaborate upon that term here. But there are different degrees of heinousness for war crimes. In particular are the more serious war crimes denominated “grave breaches” of the Fourth Geneva Convention. Since the start of the Al Aqsa Intifada, the world has seen those inflicted every day by Israel against the Palestinian People living in occupied Palestine: e.g., willful killing of Palestinian civilians by the Israeli army and Israel’s illegal paramilitary settlers. These Israeli “grave breaches” of the Fourth Geneva Convention mandate universal prosecution for their perpetrators, whether military or civilian, as well as prosecution for their commanders, whether military or civilian, including Israel’s political leaders.
Israel’s Crimes Against Humanity against Palestinians
But I want to focus for a moment on Israel’s “crime against humanity” against the Palestinian People — as determined by the U.N. Human Rights Commission itself, set up pursuant to the requirements of the United Nations Charter. What is a “crime against humanity”? This concept goes all the way back to the Nuremberg Charter of 1945 for the trial of the major Nazi war criminals. And in the Nuremberg Charter of 1945, drafted by the United States Government, there was created and inserted a new type of international crime specifically intended to deal with the Nazi persecution of the Jewish People.
The paradigmatic example of a “crime against humanity” is what Hitler and the Nazis did to the Jewish People. This is where the concept of crime against humanity came from. And this is what the U.N. Human Rights Commission determined that Israel is currently doing to the Palestinian People: Crimes against humanity. Legally, just like what Hitler and the Nazis did to the Jews.
The Precursor to Genocide
Moreover, a crime against humanity is the direct historical and legal precursor to the international crime of genocide as defined by the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. The theory here was that what Hitler and the Nazis did to the Jewish People required a special international treaty that would codify and universalize the Nuremberg concept of “crime against humanity.” And that treaty ultimately became the 1948 Genocide Convention.
In fairness, you will note that the U.N. Human Rights Commission did not go so far as to condemn Israel for committing genocide against the Palestinian People. But it has condemned Israel for committing crimes against humanity, which is the direct precursor to genocide. And I submit that if something is not done quite soon by the American People and the International Community to stop Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity against the Palestinian People, it could very well degenerate into genocide, if Israel is not there already. And in this regard, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is what international lawyers call a genocidaire–one who has already committed genocide in the past.
Mr. Francis A. Boyle is a Professor in International Law.
December 29th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
It sounds to me like Israel does not want to pursue peace with Hamas.
December 29th, 2008 at 3:31 pmIsrael and the US consistently blocked any UN resolution towards peace. They have being doing so for the last 30 years!
Tracy Tracy Tracy… Hamas won a democratic election in 2005. Almost imediatly the US and Israel moved to punish even more the Palestinian people. Consistently with their criminal and antidemocratic behaviour evident and on the record since after WWII.
December 29th, 2008 at 3:35 pmdumb, tracy, dumb, don’t you know that terrorists
December 29th, 2008 at 3:46 pmshould be in charge. I agree with saco, that
we should give legitimacy to terrorists…and i agree
with freddie…line em up, move em out…
Fred,
What I find even sadder is the number of people in this country who think that Bush and Cheney were right all along, and that they approve of the job those two clowns have been doing.
Seriously, we need to invest more in educating our youth, so they don’t grow up to be trolls on TP. (And when I say “invest more”, I’m not just talking about money.)
December 29th, 2008 at 4:02 pmYes wayne, freddie is the smartest one here. Only
December 29th, 2008 at 4:08 pmhis opinion is correct so we must be good lemmings
and agree with him. hail to the terrorists and line em up move em out….
Hey, liedetector! Hell just called. They’re wondering what’s holding you up? Get going!
December 29th, 2008 at 4:11 pmbeen there, they sent me here.
December 29th, 2008 at 4:14 pmNo. 154: “The oppression of the Palestinians goes way beyond airstrikes and bombs. It begins with cutting off their food and water…..access to work, etc. other civilized things that I’m sure you’re not interested in hearing about since it will make your moniker look foolish.
Remember, Palestinians have been living in “refugee camps” You know, tents and such. Under Israeli rule. Oppression comes in many colors.”
What a bunch of horseshit.
From the first day of Eretz Israel’s existence, it has been threatened and warred upon for all sides.
Those so called palestinians are to 98% former Jordanians who were told overnight in 1968 that they were now “palestinians” – or are now their offspring.
Were they to actually want peace instead of slitting every jewish throat they can find, they would have more than enough food and water.
Hamas is a democratically elected group of screwed up, loser, hateful terrorists. No one is more to blame for the plight of the so-called “palestinians” as the palis themselves, for they deliberately voted those yahoos in.
I doubt that any nation on earth would show as much patience as Israel has shown over more than 60 years.
So, now is the time to clean Hamas’ clock for once and for all.
And before you go off about oppression, go see the terror in the eyes of Israelis whose towns are being hit by rockets.
And btw, I am not a conservative. I am a centrist democrat.
December 29th, 2008 at 4:40 pmNo you’re not. You are an oppressers apologist.
December 29th, 2008 at 5:16 pmAnd the Palestinians cringe in their bombed out hovels while you feel sorry for the guys with the f18’s
What the hell happened to America’s sense of fair play? How is it possible for a bunch of rag tag Palestinians to terrorize a nation with nukes, f18’s, tanks, etc.
It’s like the Russians at Stalengrad, starving and resisting the modern, well equipped German army.
Why would you support this? Oh, it’s about god isn’t it. That makes it ok.
December 29th, 2008 at 5:26 pmbonncaruso- listen to freddie, he is the smartestest
December 29th, 2008 at 5:30 pmone here and only his opinion is correct. he knows
more about you than you do. be a lemming and follow
freddie. he is always right. hail the terrorists and
line em up, move em out….the Israelis are
oppressors cause they won’t get in a line and
march westward.
Why does any other country have to “reform” itself to get along with Israel.
You sound just like bush saying he won’t talk to our enemies……
these are the reasons you have lost power and now you can watch as new people create history. It will be better I promise.
liedetector. I love ya man. You are nothing if not consistant. Keep it up. We all need a town drunk.
December 29th, 2008 at 6:21 pmHay Fred and Wayne. .I’m back for a moment, good post’s but this bunch of troll’s are bull shit bush backer’s and Israel kill thy neighbor for profit bunch and won’t get it..
BTW.Liedetector, in all you post’s you were correct on one tiny little thing..Yes I have an ajenda…It’s called Peace…
December 29th, 2008 at 6:39 pm253-peace by annihilation maybe. follow freddie,
December 29th, 2008 at 6:51 pmline em up, move em out… heil la terrorista!!
Tracy-don’t you see?? It’s all Israels fault. Hamas
December 29th, 2008 at 7:09 pmwould not have to engage in terroristic activities
if only all of Israel would line up and march to
the West. Then freddie would be happy and that’s
what I’m all about…line em up, move em out….
This is from DemocracyNow interview on Israeli War Crimes and US’s cumplicity:
ALI ABUNIMAH: I want to say, Amy, first of all, that we have to go back to the Warsaw Ghetto or Guernica to find crimes in the modern era of the scale of the viciousness and of the deliberateness of what Israel is committing with the full support of the United States, not just the Bush administration, but apparently as well the incoming Obama administration. We have to recognize the complicity not just of the so-called international community, but also of the Arab regimes, Egypt, President Hosni Mubarak, the Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit of Egypt. Tzipi Livni, when she issued her threats against Gaza, was in Cairo in the biggest Arab capital, and Aboul Gheit stood next to her silently.
Mahmoud Abbas is not a bystander, the so-called president of the Palestinian Authority. For two years since the elections, which Hamas won, he and his coterie have been collaborating with Israel and the United States, first to overthrow the election result and then to besiege Gaza. We have talked before of the Palestinian Contras, funded and armed by the United States, which sought to overthrow Hamas in June 2007 and had the tables turned on them. And now this. The complicity of Mahmoud Abbas is very clear and must be clearly stated. He does not have the authority, moral or otherwise, to call together the Palestinian people for anything. He has gone over to the other side. He has joined the Israeli war against the Palestinian people, and I choose my words very carefully.
And let me say this, as well, Amy, that Israel is trying to produce and promote the fiction that it is engaged in a war with a so-called enemy entity. What Israel is doing is massacring a captive population. You heard—you said in the headlines how Nancy Pelosi, our so-called progressive, liberal, antiwar Speaker of the House, gave her full support to these crimes. Obama has done the same through a spokesman. And that will not change. The United Nations issued a weak statement aimed at covering the backsides, let me say, of those who issued it, not aimed at changing the situation.
What are Palestinians calling for today? Yesterday, the Palestinian National Committee for the Campaign for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions reissued and reaffirmed its call on all international civil society in the United States, in North America, in Europe, everywhere, to redouble the efforts for boycott, divestment and sanctions modeled on the anti-apartheid movement. This is necessary. This is moral. This is the nonviolent resistance we can all participate in. And it is more urgent than ever. Let’s not look back at these crimes like we look at the Warsaw Ghetto and like we look at Guernica and we look at the other atrocities of the twentieth century and say, “We had the chance to act, but we chose silence and complicity.” The time to stop this is now.
And we also have to be clear that those who are accountable—Ehud Barak, his orders over the past few months to withhold insulin, chemotherapy drugs, dialysis supplies, all forms of medicine from the people of Gaza, were just as lethal and just as murderous as the orders to send in the bombers and warplanes to attack mosques, to attack universities. The Islamic University in Gaza is not a military site. It is a university with 18,000 students, 60 percent of them women. Last night, Israeli warplanes attacked a female dormitory in the Islamic University. This is what Israel is attacking. They attacked the fishing port. No food gets into Gaza. People can barely fish enough to sustain them, and Israel has attacked the fishing boats that sustains them. These are historic crimes, and we cannot be silent about them.
And we have to continue this nonsense that there’s fault on both sides. We have a captive occupied population. 80 percent of the people in the Gaza Strip are refugees. 750,000 of them are children. Where else in the world can these crimes be committed while the world looks on, while our elected politicians in Congress, Democrats and Republicans, sit there applauding, when you see the shameful statement of Howard Berman, the Democrat chairman of the House Foreign Relations Committee, giving his full support to Israel? People have to stand up to this. We cannot sit on our hands anymore and say change is coming. Change is not coming unless we create it.
December 30th, 2008 at 1:50 am
its always the jews fault…heck, just ask Hitler or some other socialist
January 16th, 2009 at 7:58 pm