Beck’s response to violence in Gaza: ‘Can someone please retract the Jimmy Carter Nobel Peace Prize?’
Beck’s response to violence in Gaza: ‘Can someone please retract the Jimmy Carter Nobel Peace Prize?’
On his radio show today, conservative talker Glenn Beck responded to the current violence in Gaza by arguing that former President Jimmy Carter should be stripped of his Nobel Peace Prize:
BECK: Can someone please retract the Jimmy Carter Nobel Peace Prize? Can someone please say, “You know what Jim, we gotta take that back. I don’t know what we were thinking, but there hasn’t been all that much peace there.” … Eh, I don’t think you get the prize for the peace when the peace didn’t really happen. … Can we take his peace prize back from him?
Listen here:
Despite Beck’s claims to the contrary, Carter contributed significantly to the Middle East peace process, brokering a lasting peace between Egypt and Israel in 1978. As Juan Cole said of the Carter’s Middle East peace legacy, “Jimmy Carter powerfully affected the destinies of all Egyptians and Israelis.”
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We'll talk about THAT after Bush stands trial . . . .
January 5th, 2009 at 5:16 pmWhy? Did Jimmy Carter tell Israel to blockade Gaza? I didn't know that.
January 5th, 2009 at 5:16 pmThis is the problem with our education system. Historically there was peace there with Jimmy Carters efforts. It was only in about 2001 that things started going down hill.
Sadly beck is willfully ignorant as many of his listeners are.
January 5th, 2009 at 5:18 pmThere really is no excuse for this level of stupidity.
January 5th, 2009 at 5:19 pm"You know, you have such a stunningly superficial knowledge of what went on that it's almost embarrassing to listen to you." -Zbigniew Brzezinski
yeah, it was originally to Joe Scarborough, but if the shoe fits......
January 5th, 2009 at 5:19 pmCan someone please take away Beck's citizenship? He obviously hates America.
January 5th, 2009 at 5:20 pmBeck is a miserable excuse for a commentator.
January 5th, 2009 at 5:22 pmHis ignorance is astonishing.
Too bad they don't give out a Nobel Stupid Prize.
January 5th, 2009 at 5:25 pmI haven't ever heard Beck say anything even remotely intelligent. He is like the Ann Coulter of talk radio. the only words that comes to mind with either, is...IDIOUS EXTREMOUS.
January 5th, 2009 at 5:26 pmPlease excuse Mr. Beck's comments he's been drinking alot lately and is continuing to use drugs. He'll be returning to detox for his on going treatment for booze/drugs.
January 5th, 2009 at 5:26 pmDid Egypt and Israel have a war in the last 30 years that I didn't hear about?
January 5th, 2009 at 5:29 pm"Beck the Trainwreck's response to violence in Gaza: ‘Can someone please retract the Jimmy Carter Nobel Peace Prize?’"
Not going to go there and respond to the nimrod Beck's comments. Pass the popcorn please...
January 5th, 2009 at 5:29 pmGee, I dunno, think how much uglier this would be if Egypt was still involved in the way that Iran has been. Or did Beck not bother to look up specifically what Carter got the Nobel for?
The fact that people with no basic working knowledge what they're talking about are being paid real money to blather on with their "opinions" never fails to astound me.
January 5th, 2009 at 5:33 pmActually, Mr. Beck, it's because of President Jimmy Carter and his efforts that more countries aren't attacking Israel right now. (Not that Israel knows how to treat other people the way they would like to be treated.)
January 5th, 2009 at 5:35 pmI am in a foul mood today & sick of these idiots
Beck: When you had surgery to remove your hemorroids they obviously flipped you the wrong way. What they thought were your roids was actually your brain. What comes out of your mouth is "crap" anyway
January 5th, 2009 at 5:37 pmBush isn't responsible for the past eight years, but presidents from decades ago are responsible for what happens as his presidency winds down?
January 5th, 2009 at 5:39 pmHow many cluster bombs, white phosphorus artillery shells, and 2,000 pound bunker busters did Jimmy Carter sell to Israel?
Just curious....
January 5th, 2009 at 5:41 pm1991 Nobel Peace Prize - Edward Teller, father of the hydrogen bomb and first champion of the Star Wars weapons system, for his lifelong efforts to change the meaning of peace as we know it.
So how can Teller, Star War Raygunny, get a peace prize when there is no peace?
January 5th, 2009 at 5:42 pm1995 Nobel Peace Prize - Presented to the Taiwan National Parliament, for demonstrating that politicians gain more by punching, kicking and gouging each other than by waging war against other nations.
Did Carter gouge, kick or punch any politicians [or Pundits?]
I bet O'Reilly would kick, gouge and punch the bejeebees out of Beck
January 5th, 2009 at 5:45 pmThe Nobel committee awarded the Peace Prize for 1978 to Anwar al-Sadat, President of Egypt, and Menachem Begin, Prime Minister of Israel, for their contribution to the two frame agreements on peace in the Middle East, and on peace between Egypt and Israel, which were signed at Camp David on September 17, 1978.
The Nobel Committee awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for 2002 to Jimmy Carter, for his decades of untiring effort to find peaceful solutions to international conflicts, to advance democracy and human rights, and to promote economic and social development.
So President Cater didn't Even Win his Nobel Prize for Middle East Peace ( but IMHO he should have)
January 5th, 2009 at 5:46 pmInstead we should be considering a Nobel War Prize for Bush. The guy has a gift.
January 5th, 2009 at 5:47 pmWhat an idiot.Beck is even more "stunningly superficial" (Zbigniew B to Joe Scarborough)than Scarborough.
January 5th, 2009 at 5:48 pmWell, as for me, I'd be much happier if they just shoved a sock down Glennie's throat.
January 5th, 2009 at 5:49 pmWayne A. Schneider Says:
Actually, Mr. Beck, it’s because of President Jimmy Carter and his efforts that more countries aren’t attacking Israel right now. (Not that Israel knows how to treat other people the way they would like to be treated.)
Actually, Mr. Schneider, it is because of Israel repelling invasions by all of it's Arab neighbors and crushing their armies 4 times between 1948 and 1973 that those countries are not attacking Israel right now. Just sayin'.
January 5th, 2009 at 5:53 pmHenry Kissinger got the Peace prize in 1973, is Beck going to say that needs to be taken back as well?
January 5th, 2009 at 5:53 pmAnd in 1994 Shimon Peres got a Nobel peace prize, what say you Mr Beck?
January 5th, 2009 at 5:55 pmBeck is too stupid to realize this is not 1978, and the current mess is under the Bush regime's watch. A much better idea would be to retract Beck.
January 5th, 2009 at 5:57 pmHezbolla in 06, now they are fighting Hammas, constant state of war since the dates you mentioned.....you were saying?
January 5th, 2009 at 5:57 pmLets take back those George Tenets medal of freedom as well
January 5th, 2009 at 5:58 pmWhat a typical reich-winger, let's blame a president from 30 years ago....fing idiots.
January 5th, 2009 at 6:01 pmAh, yes. Because aggression ALWAYS solves the problem of aggression, and NEVER leads to further attacks.
Good thinking, Keltoi.
January 5th, 2009 at 6:02 pmFred Says:
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Keltoi at Night Says:
Actually, Mr. Schneider, it is because of Israel repelling invasions by all of it’s Arab neighbors and crushing their armies 4 times between 1948 and 1973 that those countries are not attacking Israel right now. Just sayin’.
Hezbolla in 06, now they are fighting Hammas, constant state of war since the dates you mentioned…..you were saying?
Gimme Hamas and Hezbollah over 7 nation states with a population exceeding 100 million any day. Besides, Hamas and Hezbollah are regularly portrayed here as harmless, capable of little more than inflicting meager property damage on Israel. And relatively speaking, that is true. The wars in 48, 54, 67 and 73 all posed existential threats to Israel. That is not something Hx2 is going to be capable of.
January 5th, 2009 at 6:02 pmToo bad your hero, herr dubyah, didn't learn a thing from lessons past about failed invasions by Western Countries into middle eastern countries. Just sayin’.
January 5th, 2009 at 6:02 pmWhat is it about the hard-on the right-wing blowhards have with Jimmy Carter?
Is it because he's the last genuine practicing Christian to occupy the Oval Office? I mean, the kind of Christian they can't stomach?
Or is it that whenever they try to compare their presidents to Clinton, we point out the record periods of peace and prosperity under his administration, so they think they can score some points by going back to the seventies?
January 5th, 2009 at 6:03 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
Keltoi at Night Says:
it is because of Israel repelling invasions by all of it’s Arab neighbors and crushing their armies 4 times between 1948 and 1973 that those countries are not attacking Israel right now. Just sayin’.
Ah, yes. Because aggression ALWAYS solves the problem of aggression, and NEVER leads to further attacks.
Good thinking, Keltoi.
Um, Ralph? Israel was repelling advancing armies in those wars...how do you term that aggression? Should they have just let the invaders roll into Tel Aviv?
January 5th, 2009 at 6:04 pmThey've got nothing left. Best they can do is pick a democrat, pin the republican failures on him if they can and try to discredit all democrats with the attack.
January 5th, 2009 at 6:05 pmNo but it was humiliating for Israel when they couldn't handle little ole Hesbolla in 06 and it may turn out that way this time too.
Israel likes living in a state of war, it's to their advantage on many fronts.
January 5th, 2009 at 6:10 pmKeltoi, are you seriously suggesting that Israel has been simply on the defensive for the past thirty years?
That responding to aggression with aggression is the solution they should be seeking?
'Cause that's what it sounds like to me.
January 5th, 2009 at 6:13 pmBeck knows he can make a good living by bottom feeding. He's a smart guy. He has no moral center and is a bit of a sociopath but he's smart!
January 5th, 2009 at 6:16 pmFred Says:
No but it was humiliating for Israel when they couldn’t handle little ole Hesbolla in 06 and it may turn out that way this time too.
True. Hezbollah is a much tougher foe than Hamas, but I don't see how Israel can achieve its goals in Gaza militarily.
Israel likes living in a state of war, it’s to their advantage on many fronts.
You could say that about just about every nation, militia, sect and tribe in the Middle East. It is the ultimate case of "he started it" when the first handful of sand got flung 3 millennia ago. Choose any date or event you want and you can find another act of violence by the other side that preceded it. Middle East Peace is a Chimera, and while Carter definitely earned his Nobel Prize (I think he should have won it in 78 with his two partners)it is undeniable there is no Peace there and likely never will be. After all, there never has been.
January 5th, 2009 at 6:18 pmPlain and simple - Beck is an asswipe!
January 5th, 2009 at 6:19 pmMy apologies, Keltoi. I just re-read and considered what you were saying, and I misinterpreted it.
My initial thought was that you were saying that israel's warlike nature is completely justified because they beat up their neighbors and those neighbors don't bother them anymore. It sounded like you were saying that agrgression works, as long as you win.
I see now that what you were saying is that Jimmy Carter didn't deserve any credit for helping to achieve peace, because Israel is responsible for whatever peace there is, by beating up its neighbors.
Again, my apologies.
January 5th, 2009 at 6:22 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
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Keltoi, are you seriously suggesting that Israel has been simply on the defensive for the past thirty years?
In the 4 full blown wars I cited, yes, they were on the defensive. Had they lost any one of them, Israel would no longer exist.
That responding to aggression with aggression is the solution they should be seeking?
It is a family tradition in that part of the world.
‘Cause that’s what it sounds like to me.
Thought experiment, Ralph: Tomorrow, all Arab nations unilaterally disarm, disband their armies, forswear violence forevermore. OR, tomorrow, Israel unilaterally does the same thing.
Which scenario would be more likely to lead to Peace?
Hint: It is a trick question, neither would lead to Peace, but hopefully you take my point. Without its military, Israel would fall to invasion in a month and cease to be.
January 5th, 2009 at 6:25 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
Actually, Mr. Schneider, it is because of Israel repelling invasions by all of it’s Arab neighbors and crushing their armies 4 times between 1948 and 1973 that those countries are not attacking Israel right now. Just sayin’.
Israel had one decisive victory, in 1967. In 1948 the war dragged on for a year and neither side crushed anyone. The Yom Kippur War was shorter and Israel more clearly victorious, but again hardly a "crushing" victory. If the fourth conflict you refer to is the war with Lebanon, again hardly "crushing" and it was Israel that did the invading.
And there's always the matter of those nukes.
January 5th, 2009 at 6:27 pmAnd yet, it never occurs to the Israeli leaders that maybe, just maybe, they could diffuse the tension by restoring civil rights and representation to Israeli Palestinians. Those who are oppressed in their native land, regardless of old conflicts, will ALWAYS fight. On the other hand, those who participate in, and are invested in, the running of their country seldom resort to violence.
Alas, rightwing authoritarians seldom see that. It doesn't matter what race, creed, country, or ideology they represent. They see only in terms of matching force with force. Blood with blood. Death with death.
January 5th, 2009 at 6:28 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
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My apologies, Keltoi. I just re-read and considered what you were saying, and I misinterpreted it.
My initial thought was that you were saying that israel’s warlike nature is completely justified because they beat up their neighbors and those neighbors don’t bother them anymore. It sounded like you were saying that agrgression works, as long as you win.
I see now that what you were saying is that Jimmy Carter didn’t deserve any credit for helping to achieve peace, because Israel is responsible for whatever peace there is, by beating up its neighbors.
Again, my apologies.
I see you have been grazing in the snark-leaf patch, my friend.
What I was really saying is that Israel even existed as a nation in 1978 so that they could be around to negotiate based on the fact that they defeated four attempts in 25 years to annihilate them.
January 5th, 2009 at 6:29 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
Actually, Mr. Schneider, it is because of Israel repelling invasions by all of it’s Arab neighbors...
The trouble with comparing history to an imagined alternate history is that the imagined alternate history isn't there to defend itself. If Egypt were still in the "death to Israel" game, things might be hugely different right now. It's the reason I don't play the "what if Al Gore had won in 2000" game; It's so easy it isn't even fair.
To cite only one factor, any action by or against Israel would lead it to committing forces on two fronts. Two front wars typically don't do very well.
There are also indirect actions that Egypt could have been involved in if they hadn't bowed out, such as Iran's support for Hezbollah and Hamas, which you must admit is a significant problem for Israel at present.
But, as badger points out, it's irrelevent because Carter didn't win the NPP for that. He's one of the few winners to get it for a long period of (mostly underreported) body of work rather than a single accomplishment in the previous year.
.
Xisithrus Says:
1991 Nobel Peace Prize...
1995 Nobel Peace Prize...
Here is a list of the winners. Please (everybody) refer to it before saying who won what what year.
.
ralph the wonder llama Says:
What is it about the hard-on the right-wing blowhards have with Jimmy Carter?
As I recall, it had something to do with the fact that during his term there were high gas prices, a faltering economy and some trouble with Iran... *ahem*
January 5th, 2009 at 6:30 pmAh, yes -- the "either/or" hypothetical so beloved of the conservative mind.
Neither scenario would likely lead to peace, Keltoi. israel would be no more inclined to trust its Arab neighbors' disarmament than would the Arabs. This truth alone makes your "thought experiment" a waste of time.
And I noticed that when I posed the "thought experiment" of whether responding to aggression with aggression is the solution they should be seeking you sidestepped that one by simply shrugging it off as "family tradition".
Kind of a cop-out.
January 5th, 2009 at 6:31 pmAnd how does that affect either israel's current strategy (other than pointing out that it is learned behavior) or the question of the thread -- Beck's hard-on for Jimmy Carter?
January 5th, 2009 at 6:33 pm" the question of the thread — Beck’s hard-on for Jimmy Carter?" has a deceptively easy answer...it fries the asses of these chickenhawks that they are a) utter failures at waging/winning a war and b)none of their tin idols have even been nominated. And since they couldn't pin this on al gore, jimmy carter it was.
January 5th, 2009 at 6:36 pmNow US troops are helping the the Israelis slaughter Gazans.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=80725§ionid=351020202
January 5th, 2009 at 6:36 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
And I noticed that when I posed the “thought experiment” of whether responding to aggression with aggression is the solution they should be seeking you sidestepped that one by simply shrugging it off as “family tradition”.
Kind of a cop-out.
Perhaps, but I think it is more of a philosophical divide between conservative and progressive thinking. Obviously aggression is bad, says the progressive, so you should not answer violence with violence. But so it has always been in the Middle East, land where both Civilization and War were invented, says the conservative.
Am I copping out if I recognize that since the reign of Sargon the Great in 2340 B.C. the only constant in the Middle East has been aggression? That I don't think that is going to change and so the thought experiment you pose is as pointless as my own?
To be clear, it is fine with me that the Nobel Committee recognized Carter, and I do think it is time for Israel to back off, they have made their point and done their damage. Hamas will never make true peace with them, and Israel will never be able to root them out of Gaza, so return to the low grade war you had before Christmas, it is the best you are going to get in this generation, alas.
January 5th, 2009 at 6:43 pmTypical RepubliCon, cause the problem, then blame someone else.
January 5th, 2009 at 6:55 pmNot quite accurate, keltoi. The reality of the Mideast is one of too many people with too little water/arable land. The "aggression", aside from outside invaders like the Crusaders and Israeli Jews, has been historically driven by access to food and water.
I just can't help but wonder what would happen to the "low grade war" if the Palestinians had enough to eat and drink as well as a voice in their own government. I fail to see the downside of allowing citizens of "Old Palestine" full citizenship, basic needs, and access to trade with the rest of the world.
Gaza, as it exists today, is an@logous to the old "Indian Territories". It's, at best, a reservation and, at worst, a concentration camp.
January 5th, 2009 at 7:01 pmNBC anchorwoman and chief foreign affairs correspondent Andrea Mitchell said Sunday that US military officers from the Corps of Engineers had been stationed on the Egyptian side of the Rafah (Gaza) crossing in order to prevent "arms smuggling from illegal tunnels" by Palestinian fighters.
Can we therefore assume the Army Corps of Engineers has completed fixing levees along the Mississippi River?
January 5th, 2009 at 7:15 pmpete Says:
Not quite accurate, keltoi. The reality of the Mideast is one of too many people with too little water/arable land. The “aggression”, aside from outside invaders like the Crusaders and Israeli Jews, has been historically driven by access to food and water.
Yes - but why stop with the Crusaders and the Israeli Jews on your invader list? Calling the Jews invaders of the Levant takes you back to at least 1100 B.C. which predates the prescence of Arabs, Turks or Persians in the area.
I just can’t help but wonder what would happen to the “low grade war” if the Palestinians had enough to eat and drink as well as a voice in their own government. I fail to see the downside of allowing citizens of “Old Palestine” full citizenship, basic needs, and access to trade with the rest of the world.
Hamas exists to destroy Israel. It is their stated purpose. They show their children cartoons about the joys of killing Jews. The Palestinians are at war with themselves. As to full citizenship, why is it that there can be 30 states where Islam is the official religion but not a single one which is officially Jewish? Reuniting all of Old Palestine (a historic mirage in itself, but no need to go too far in the weeds)would make for an Arab Muslim majority. Israel won't do that. As for access and trade to the outside world, that means more weapons and explosives coming into Gaza to arm Hamas. Again, that isn't something Israel will do.
Gaza, as it exists today, is an@logous to the old “Indian Territories”. It’s, at best, a reservation and, at worst, a concentration camp.
Were it a concentration camp, it would look a lot grimmer than its already admitably grim appearance. Your first analogy seems apt.
January 5th, 2009 at 7:21 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
Perhaps, but I think it is more of a philosophical divide between conservative and progressive thinking. Obviously aggression is bad, says the progressive, so you should not answer violence with violence. But so it has always been in the Middle East, land where both Civilization and War were invented, says the conservative.
ROTFL! Your posts are as DUMB and UNINFORMED as ALWAYS! You certainly don't DISAPPOINT when it comes to IDIOT TROLL POSTS!
War and Civilization were INVENTED independently all over the world. I'm sure the numerous and impressive civilizations that sprang forth in the Americas independent of the fertile crescent would disagree with your assessment. As would those of the Indus Valley and South Central Asia.
Civilization sprang forth as a result of the human capacity to plan, organize and manage a cooperative situation. War sprang forth from Conservatives desperate to control the resulting civilization and dominate it for personal gain. At the heart of most of the world's wars you'll find Conservatives who wish to oppress and brutalize those that stand in their way because of their own personal childish insecurities and inherent distrust of the great masses - look inside you'll find the truth little boy...
Am I copping out if I recognize that since the reign of Sargon the Great in 2340 B.C. the only constant in the Middle East has been aggression? That I don’t think that is going to change and so the thought experiment you pose is as pointless as my own?
The only constant in the middle east is WAR? ROTFL! Yeah, it's not like it has produced any art, literature, invention or intellectual pursuit!! ROTFL! You do realize that the MIDDLE EAST represented the dominate portion of the Roman and Greek Empires including some of their best minds and best innovations - right?
Wow, what an arrogant little prick you are, considering how IGNORANT you are on EVERY TOPIC! You are TRULY a BLITHERING IDIOT!
January 5th, 2009 at 7:24 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
Were it a concentration camp, it would look a lot grimmer than its already admitably grim appearance. Your first analogy seems apt.
Yeah, my family tells me the old reservations were just peachy.... except for the killing of unarmed indian women and children, the scheming to take away what little lands they were left with, the bigitry, the joblessness, the poverty.... yeah, life on the rez was just peachy....
January 5th, 2009 at 7:26 pmWayne Says:
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Keltoi at Night Says:
Were it a concentration camp, it would look a lot grimmer than its already admitably grim appearance. Your first analogy seems apt.
Yeah, my family tells me the old reservations were just peachy…. except for the killing of unarmed indian women and children, the scheming to take away what little lands they were left with, the bigitry, the joblessness, the poverty…. yeah, life on the rez was just peachy….
I never said that Wayne, didn't even imply it. I am just saying it wasn't Auschwitz. That's all.
January 5th, 2009 at 7:28 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
Hamas exists to destroy Israel. It is their stated purpose.
And Israel has stated they wish to destroy Hamas as it exists now - what's your point?
They show their children cartoons about the joys of killing Jews.
And Israel shows videos of Palestinians being BOMBED and the JOYS of being a soldier to protect Israel.
You can criticize both for the same acts - you IGNORANT TARD!
The Palestinians are at war with themselves.
You're RIGHT because JEWS are Palestinians you IGNORANT FOOL!
As to full citizenship, why is it that there can be 30 states where Islam is the official religion but not a single one which is officially Jewish?
Actually the Muslim world said they had no problems with a Jewish state - but it should be put in Europe since Europeans and not Arabs had tried to exterminate the Jews. The problem that most of the Arab world has is that the Jews STOLE the land from Islamic farmers and citizens without reparations.
Reuniting all of Old Palestine (a historic mirage in itself, but no need to go too far in the weeds)would make for an Arab Muslim majority. Israel won’t do that.
Which is why the whole DEMOCRACY claim is a b**sh*t mirage.
As for access and trade to the outside world, that means more weapons and explosives coming into Gaza to arm Hamas. Again, that isn’t something Israel will do.
And the Muslim world refuses to lay over and play dead as millions of their fellow muslims are herded into concentration camps and starved to death as is the case in Gaza...
An Eye for an EYE makes EVERYONE BLIND - something YOU CLEARLY ARE - TARD!
January 5th, 2009 at 7:29 pmKeltoi, if brains were WMDs you wouldn't have enough to start a war...
January 5th, 2009 at 7:31 pmBeck's conception and birth should be retracted.
January 5th, 2009 at 7:32 pmWell, you've put a step wrong right out of the gate.
The progressive doesn't say "aggression is bad". That implies a moral judgment. The progressive says "aggression fuels more aggression; aggression does not work to secure peace."
I have a conservative friend who falls into this same trap: seeing policy questions in moral terms. He doesn't want to offer aid to poor people because he thinks it is a moral failing. He thinks it rewards bad behavior.
He doesn't look at the question in terms of: what course of action would bring about the best result? So, even though expanding unemployment benefits and welfare can keep poor families from facing desperate choices, and even though expanded public works spending can increase employment levels, he's against any government spending, especially on items like this, because to him, the moral failure of "giving money to people who don't deserve it" is treater than a healthier economy.
Of course, he doesn't see it as a moral judgment. He convinces himself (quite easily, by the look of it) that his judgment is completely practical. I think it's just a matter of different priorities. My priority is the best situation for the greatest number of people. His priority is that bad people don't get rewarded.
January 5th, 2009 at 7:37 pmRepublicans don't understand diplomacy, maintenance, or human society. Carter didn't do anything because he didn't make a permanent peace? Reality is at fault for not being as iconic as their stupid pronouncements.
January 5th, 2009 at 7:39 pmYour response to pete, Keltoi, ignores the point he makes.
pete suggests that basic civil rights and resources if provided to Palestinians could very well ease the resentments that drive the behaviors you focus on.
Your response seems to suggest that you don't believe that such resentments can ever be eased, that Palestinians will ALWAYS hate the Jews, no matter how prosperous or self-governing they may become.
That's a sad perspective.
January 5th, 2009 at 7:42 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
Wayne Says:
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Keltoi at Night Says:
Were it a concentration camp, it would look a lot grimmer than its already admitably grim appearance. Your first analogy seems apt.
Yeah, my family tells me the old reservations were just peachy…. except for the killing of unarmed indian women and children, the scheming to take away what little lands they were left with, the bigitry, the joblessness, the poverty…. yeah, life on the rez was just peachy….
I never said that Wayne, didn’t even imply it. I am just saying it wasn’t Auschwitz. That’s all.
I know, my point is a reservation is not much better.
Wounded Knee was pretty close to Auschwitz, since most of the tribe was gunned down, those that could not run fast enough to get away and hide that is. Bodies of children were found miles from the camp with bullet wounds in their backs, women and the babies they were trying to shield shot. The "brave" soldiers from the 7th Cavalry got Congressional Medals of Honor for shooting children in the back as they were running away, BTW. **spit
January 5th, 2009 at 7:43 pmKeltoi:
1. Crusaders and Israeli Jews are just the two most familiar to non-historians. Persians, Greeks, Egyptians, assorted Europeans etc. have all taken a stab at invading, and/or dominating, the Mideast.
2. Israel was created as a home for Jews. Most of them were of European decent and, in the eyes of the indigenous population (including Jews who remained), had relinquished any legitimate claim to the land.
3. I spoke of restoring civil rights to Palestinians, not legitimizing Hamas or any other terrorist organization.
4. I can't find a single source, outside the Bible, that guarantees a Jewish theocracy and Israel will never find peace, as a secular nation, without respecting the legitimate claims of the Palestinians.
5. Demographics can be a b!tch. Oppressing an indigenous majority is a guarantee of ongoing war. Removing the oppression might, just might, reduce the recruiting pool for terrorist organizations.
January 5th, 2009 at 7:47 pmCarter helped broker peace, Beck helps broker insensitivity. which is the greater commodity? how much is Glenn Beck worth?
January 5th, 2009 at 7:49 pmthar's gold in them thar insensitivity mines!
ralph the wonder llama Says:
That’s a sad perspective.
Keltoi like most Conservatives is a SAD little LOSER - it's why he clings to his cliches and ignorance. It's the only way he can feel BETTER about himself - to ignore reality and look down own liberals from his false sense of superiority... Poor little TARD! He didn't even know that Palestinians ARE JEWS!
January 5th, 2009 at 7:49 pmKeltoi's arguments here are a pretty clear example of the social conservative view of human nature, particularly as defined by region/race/tribe. They believe that the long-term history of the Middle East proves that peace is an impossibility. Never mind the fact that long-term history everywhere demonstrates the same. This also ignores the point that the obvious steps to a lasting and stable peace have not been attempted. If they had, he might have an argument.
The contrary to such a stance is the very essence of the term "progressive" - that history can be improved by human action. That the world can, and does, gradually get better. And that our efforts can make it so. This philosophical position is also known as "hope."
None of us are blind to the realities and difficulties of the situation. We just want to do something to actually improve it. Just because it's hard doesn't mean it isn't the right thing to do.
It never fails to amaze me that the Republican party ever draws votes from Christians. Such a negative, destructive and hateful outlook is in every possible way the precise antithesis to the promise of Christianity.
January 5th, 2009 at 7:50 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
He didn’t even know that Palestinians ARE JEWS!
I think nobody in the world but you "knows" that. Seriously, that's, um... incorrect.
January 5th, 2009 at 7:51 pmWayne Says:
Keltoi at Night Says:
Wayne Says:
——————————————————————————–
Keltoi at Night Says:
Were it a concentration camp, it would look a lot grimmer than its already admitably grim appearance. Your first analogy seems apt.
Yeah, my family tells me the old reservations were just peachy…. except for the killing of unarmed indian women and children, the scheming to take away what little lands they were left with, the bigitry, the joblessness, the poverty…. yeah, life on the rez was just peachy….
I never said that Wayne, didn’t even imply it. I am just saying it wasn’t Auschwitz. That’s all.
I know, my point is a reservation is not much better.
Wounded Knee was pretty close to Auschwitz, since most of the tribe was gunned down, those that could not run fast enough to get away and hide that is. Bodies of children were found miles from the camp with bullet wounds in their backs, women and the babies they were trying to shield shot. The “brave” soldiers from the 7th Cavalry got Congressional Medals of Honor for shooting children in the back as they were running away, BTW. **spit
Sounds like Keltoi has never heard of the trail of tears where it's believed 6,000 of 15,000 died in forced relocation to Oklahoma, or the Seminole wars in Florida that exterminated the Seminoles down to a grand total of 100 survivors in the Everglades...
Ignorance is definitely at the center of Keltoi's arrogance - poor little TARD...
January 5th, 2009 at 7:56 pmFunny, I don't know of any other situations rivaling what's going on in Gaza occuring anywhere else in the mid east......oh yeah, Iraq, Afganistan.
You were saying?
January 5th, 2009 at 8:05 pmElBruce Says:
republicans hate facts Says:
He didn’t even know that Palestinians ARE JEWS!
I think nobody in the world but you “knows” that. Seriously, that’s, um… incorrect.
You honestly don't know that? Palestinians are in fact Jews that converted to Christianity and Islam. This is both common sense and genetically proven.
The Cohen Modal Haplotype is found commonly in both Jews and Palestinians, as are several other markers... You also forget that Jews are in fact from Ur in Iraq - Jews are just another Arab sub-group tribe like every other Arab group...
Just because you don't KNOW something doesn't make you RIGHT - so sorry but you are INCORRECT!
January 5th, 2009 at 8:05 pmPete at 67, can't argue with much you have to say here. My only quibble would be point #5 - supposedly, both sides have agreed in principle to a two state solution, so uniting all of Old Palestine is not in the cards by the lights of either side.
ElBruce Says:
The contrary to such a stance is the very essence of the term “progressive” - that history can be improved by human action. That the world can, and does, gradually get better. And that our efforts can make it so. This philosophical position is also known as “hope.”
None of us are blind to the realities and difficulties of the situation. We just want to do something to actually improve it. Just because it’s hard doesn’t mean it isn’t the right thing to do.
I also agree with most of this, but I don't think my view is "hateful", I think it is the reality of the world. But I salute your optimism that the world gradually gets better. It is true in some times and places and not in others, but there is nothing wrong with hoping for a better world and acting to make it happen. But it is kinda a ying-yang thing; it will never get better without the idealists, but it will also never get better without the cynics because the cynics allow you to stay alive and fight the true evil and beastial nature of much of the world. In other words, you can't be pure Progressive or pure Conservative; they need each other both for balance and for practical reasons.
January 5th, 2009 at 8:06 pmHow 'bout we give Rice & Bush the "Screwed It Up" prize?
January 5th, 2009 at 8:06 pmOh ElBruce, I can't believe you can possibly be ignorant enough to not know Palestinians are Jews and that the rest of the world doesn't know this either! It's not like it's a big secret - how could you possibly be ignorant of this fact?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_people#DNA_and_genetic_studies
Ironically Palestinians have a higher percentage of JEWISH blood than JEWS DO! So from a GENETIC standpoint, Palestinians have a greater right to Israel than the Mixed Blood European Jews - and that's their point...
It would be the equivalent of Americans of mixed Anglo decent retaking England from the "English" because of a right to the historic homeland.... It's just MORONIC!
January 5th, 2009 at 8:07 pmKeltoi, the only way things get better is if conservative MORONS like YOURSELF in EVERY GROUP is forced to STFU and stop creating s**t for the rest of the world by crashing planes and shooting off bombs!
January 5th, 2009 at 8:10 pmPalestinians are a semitic people.
January 5th, 2009 at 8:12 pmwiley Says:
Palestinians are a semitic people.
Palestinians are a JEWISH people. Do you really think the entire land of Judea was abandoned? Where do people think Palestinians came from - outer space? They are Jews that converted religion. Palestinians have the highest concentration of "Jewish-Genes" of any group for a reason - because they're the most Jewish of any group including the Diaspora....
January 5th, 2009 at 8:15 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
Oh ElBruce, I can’t believe you can possibly be ignorant enough to not know Palestinians are Jews...
You know, just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm "ignorant." In fact, saying so lends no weight to your argument whatsoever. Quite the contrary, in fact.
wiley makes the point more accurately - "Semitic" is the correct term to include both Arabs and Jews. Judaism isn't merely a genetic condition. Both Jews and Palestinians would be either alarmed or amused by your assertion that all Palestinians are Jews - and I lend more credence to the people involved in determining what they are. Furthermore, there would be lots of Jews who aren't Jews by your definition, as well as non-Jews who you would classify as Jews. It's actually a little more complicated than that.
January 5th, 2009 at 8:23 pmElBruce Says:
republicans hate facts Says:
Oh ElBruce, I can’t believe you can possibly be ignorant enough to not know Palestinians are Jews…
You know, just because I disagree with you doesn’t mean I’m “ignorant.” In fact, saying so lends no weight to your argument whatsoever. Quite the contrary, in fact.
ROTFL!! yeah because GENETICS are just OPINIONS! What a MORON!
And yes there are lots of JEWISH CONVERTS, and that's the POINT! Jews ORIGINALLY were ALL DESCENDANTS of ABRAHAM and that's the whole BASIS of JUDAISM. Converts are ALLOWED but the basis of the claims to Israel comes from being of Jewish origin genetically - something that Palestinians are MORE than the Diaspora. Let me guess, you're JEWISH?
And no it's NOT MORE COMPLICATED than that. Both are of JEWISH DESCENT and that's what MAKES IT COMPLICATED - PERIOD!
January 5th, 2009 at 8:27 pmBoth Jews and Palestinians would be either alarmed or amused by your assertion that all Palestinians are Jews
ROTFL!! I didn't say ALL PALESTINIANS you ILLITERATE MORON! I said they are MORE JEWISH as a GROUP in terms of the GENETIC JEWISH MARKERS which is a basis for HISTORIC JEWISHNESS. Yeah, of course being Jewish is both a religion and an ethnic tribe - but people practice the Jewish religion in pretty much every country in the world. The point is that JEWS refer to Israel not as a religious place but as the HISTORIC HOME OF THEIR ANCESTORS - and a land that was PROMISED to their ANCESTOR ABRAHAM. That and not the CONVERSION/RELIGIOUS is the basis for the claims to Israel.
By contrast most Palestinians identify as either Arab or Muslim - but that's because they were Muslim converts under Arab occupation for centuries. It's also because they assimilated with those Arabs, just as Jews assimilated in Europe and elsewhere. But the reality is that Palestinians have just as much Historical and Ethnic claims to Israel as the Jewish Diaspora does. Or are you going to claim that a Jew that converts to Islam is unworthy to be an Israeli - because that is the plight that most Palestinians are in. Because according to DNA profiles Palestinians have a higher profile of "Jewish" DNA than the Jewish Diaspora does...
January 5th, 2009 at 8:34 pmWhat exactly Jewishness is is contentious, but the fact that before 1947 all this contested land was called "Palestine" is pretty straightforward. No need to whip out a microscope.
January 5th, 2009 at 8:34 pmForgot Persians, they also apparently deserve to die for offending Beck.
January 5th, 2009 at 8:49 pm"Palestinian Muslim Arabs are descended from Christians and Jews who lived in the southern Levant, a region that includes Israel, Sinai and part of Jordan." Geneticist Michael Hammer
Christians in the southern Levant were mostly Jewish as well - if you didn't know this... Meaning that Palestinians are almost exclusively of Jewish origins...
Debate ended, please find something else to spread disinformation about ElBruce - maybe Keltoi can give you some of his nonsense to post...
January 5th, 2009 at 8:50 pmOf course I agree with those above who say that Carter could have started peace which was derailed by later politicians.
But, I have to ask, If Carter keeps his prize, how can we believe in the truth of Shrub saying that he's the first one to do anything for peace in the mideast by giving them a road map ?
January 5th, 2009 at 8:51 pmJeepers, rhf. I enjoy hurling the occasional deserved insult as much as anyone but, abusive language over the niceties of the use of technical terms is uncalled for. Save it for those who disagree with you and you'll live happier, if not longer.
January 5th, 2009 at 9:16 pmpete Says:
Jeepers, rhf. I enjoy hurling the occasional deserved insult as much as anyone but, abusive language over the niceties of the use of technical terms is uncalled for. Save it for those who disagree with you and you’ll live happier, if not longer.
Ha! Ah, pete...that's a good one, you old kidder.
January 5th, 2009 at 9:22 pmHippie_crusher Says:
Hey did you losers notice who the messiah appointed to head the cia? Kinda of a bigger story than this don’t you think?
So important it got its own thread about 4 threads down.
January 5th, 2009 at 9:31 pmKidder? Moi? I must protest. My insults are as genuine as my insights. And I have a healthy respect for my own limitations but, that's another subject.
January 5th, 2009 at 9:34 pmCome on tell me about just one hippie ever crushed by you?
January 5th, 2009 at 9:35 pmAt present, Judaism is a religion, not a genetic condition. Acceptance into a congegration of that religion requires either the correct genetic heritage through the matrilinial line, or a relatively difficult conversion procedure.
I saw an interesting thing on Nova the other day explaining how all Jews were probably originally Canaanites (a href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/bible/program.html">chapter 5). But I'm not going to go around calling Palestinians Canaanites, much less Jews Canaanites, much less Palestinians Jews. Might as well call everybody "Adamites" and save time if you're going to do that.
It would be like me telling you you're a Lutheran because you have a lot of Swedish DNA. It would be degrading to you and to intelligence in general. Historical migrations and genetic comparisons are one thing, personal identity is another.
January 5th, 2009 at 9:36 pmSince he broached the subject, I sure our stupid troll has copious evidence about Mr. Panetta's "corruption" and "incompetence".
ElBruce: I've always been fond of "naked apes" as a term for humans.
January 5th, 2009 at 9:42 pmHippie_crusher Says:
Important to you losers...
I believe Keltoi was trying to point you in the correct direction to appropriately post your criticism.
1. Click on the banner at the top of this page that says "Think Progress."
2. Scroll down to the item titled "Obama selects Leon Panetta to head CIA."
3. Click that title, and post your trolling there. I'll be glad to argue with whatever criticism you care to post.
Have a progressive day!
January 5th, 2009 at 9:43 pmHi pete:
January 5th, 2009 at 9:45 pmIf you have never read DeWaal, I would recommend him. So siskins, and snow buntings, and redpolls are all about as are a few snowy owls and some crossbills. Lots of good winter sea ducks and stuff but I haven't had any chance to hit the coast
Hippie_crusher Says:
___________
Dude... that mullet is SOOOOOOO 1980's.
Hey, everybody... Hippie_crusher gonna mash a Coors can flat on his forehead!!!
Woo-hoo!!!
January 5th, 2009 at 9:52 pmGood evening, db.
Cruddy weather for a while in these parts. Ducks, geese, and a few disgusted and dejected looking bunnies are all I've seen recently. Though I did hear a pheasant cackling the other day. No doubt he's wishing his ancestors learned to migrate as well. I've been considering taking up my niece's
offer to visit her in Las Vegas. I despise Vegas but I love the desert.
I haven't read DeWall, I'll check him out when I drop off my current pile of books at the library. I've been on a sci-fi kick; James P. Hogan and Alan Dean Foster mostly. Then I'm finally gonna plow through my new Senator's books.
January 5th, 2009 at 9:59 pmDeWaal is an interesting primatologist who has much to say as to the origins of moralty, ethics, and the like. You might dig it. Lots of good stuff in the desert. Too bad most of them are too far from the sea for me
bes6t-
January 5th, 2009 at 10:03 pmYeah a silly made up one. Latin King my ass...
January 5th, 2009 at 10:12 pmThe most important document that was hidden
GOOGLE:
BENJAMIN FREEDMAN SPEAKS: A JEWISH DEFECTOR WARNS AMERICA
What are the facts about the Jews? (I call them Jews to you, because they are known as "Jews". I don't call them Jews myself. I refer to them as "so-called Jews", because I know what they are). The eastern European Jews, who form 92 per cent of the world's population of those people who call themselves "Jews", were originally Khazars. They were a warlike tribe who lived deep in the heart of Asia. And they were so warlike that even the Asiatics drove them out of Asia into eastern Europe. They set up a large Khazar kingdom of 800,000 square miles. At the time, Russia did not exist, nor did many other European countries. The Khazar kingdom was the biggest country in all Europe -- so big and so powerful that when the other monarchs wanted to go to war, the Khazars would lend them 40,000 soldiers. That's how big and powerful they were.
http://fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/history/zionism/news.php?q=1228947965
January 5th, 2009 at 10:18 pmThe only "source" for the Coulter story is Drudge. Why on earth would TP quote that psycho? Heck! Even drudge is only claiming she's banned from The Today Show, not NBC as a whole. I'm sure that Tweety will give her at leat one show to sell her latest drivel.
January 5th, 2009 at 10:19 pmKeltoi at Night Says:
You are just WRONG. IN 67 ISRAEL invaded Egypt, Jordan and Syria THEY WERE NOT INVADED. IN 73 Egypt invaded the occupied territories NOT ISRAEL. Just saying, I mean you are FLAT OUT WRONG.
January 5th, 2009 at 10:24 pmSo Hippie_Crusher,
January 5th, 2009 at 10:30 pmIn light of the suckiness of this site, why are you here? Why so many explaination points and question marks?
You were saying, stupid troll?
NEW YORK (Hollywood Reporter) - NBC News denied Monday that conservative author Ann Coulter has been banned from the network after "Today" dropped her from Tuesday's program because of breaking-news events.
The Coulter incident garnered huge headlines on the Drudge Report, which reported that network sources said NBC was not going to allow the frequent guest to appear any more.
That's not true, NBC News said Monday. Coulter's segment was dropped from the schedule because of news that the show was expecting to cover in the Gaza Strip with the Israeli military action there and in Washington with the Obama transition. "Today" had booked former British prime minister Tony Blair. Coulter was to promote her new book, "Guilty: Liberal 'Victims' and Their Assault on America."
"We've had Ann Coulter on 'Today' many times, but because of the news in Washington and the Middle East, we decided to cancel her appearance tomorrow," NBC News said in a statement Monday. "Understanding the media as well as she does, we are sure she knows this happens from time to time. We look forward to welcoming her back in the future."
http://ca.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idCATRE5050JL20090106
Keep quoting idiots like Drudge, and defending idiots like Beck, and your status as a first class moron is assured.
January 5th, 2009 at 10:32 pmGuess you missed the incompetence of the last 8 years. War against a country that never threw a rock at us, economy in the tank, health care crisis, Israel/Palestine at each others throats again, torture, corrution, lying, etc. all by republicans......they even admit to it. And you have the absolute gall to call any democrat worthless. You would only say that from behind an anonomous screen. You have lost and will always in the end, lose.
by the way, on the canadians quip, ben laden said he would draw us into a war that would destroy our economy........guess who's drinking champaign right now? Thanks to fools like you and gw bush.
January 5th, 2009 at 10:36 pmCheck this on Youtube
The interview happened a while ago, but it is very relevant to today’s events.
Interview with Chalmers Johnson:
http://au.youtube.com/ watch?v=j5SoE9vBc6I&feature=related
Sorry, never linked something before… I’m from the old school.
January 5th, 2009 at 10:49 pmHere it is the title of the YouTube interview:
The BLOWBACK SYNDROME: Oil Wars and Overreach
The punk so scared of hippys is a punk and a troll. He is stupider than brass bubblegum and is a sick piece of garbage. Those being his good qualities
January 5th, 2009 at 10:51 pmApparently he's scared of the truth as well, EugeneDebs.
January 5th, 2009 at 10:57 pmHippie_crusher Says: 108
No MORON this is where we come to slap around submoronic pieces of ignorance like YOU. I know its easy you being so stupid and all but a guys got to get his entertainment somewhere and mopping the floor with the stupidest people imaginable, like say, YOU, is worth the time and idiots like you are a decent free clown show. It is funny that you dont GET how stupid you are.
January 5th, 2009 at 10:58 pmHippie_featherduster has an obvious hard-on for Ann Coulter.
January 5th, 2009 at 11:02 pmEveryone pretend like we don't notice...
More and more the trolls have become hit and run.....
January 5th, 2009 at 11:03 pmYou mean he goes for the type that wear stripped socks that look like a house could fall on her at any moment?
January 5th, 2009 at 11:05 pmWell Fred they KNOW they are too stupid to engage or discuss so its insult then run. This Terrified of Hippys moron is just flat braindead
January 5th, 2009 at 11:06 pmFred Says:
Zooey Says:
Hippie_featherduster has an obvious hard-on for Ann Coulter.
You mean he goes for the type that wear stripped socks that look like a house could fall on her at any moment?
January 5th, 2009 at 11:05 pm
I simply won't stand for you insulting the wicked witch of the west. ;)
January 5th, 2009 at 11:08 pmWhat was I thinking? ;)
January 5th, 2009 at 11:11 pmAll is forgive, Fred.
Even evil, bloodsucking, soul-sapping witches have feelings -- unlike Mr Coulter. :D
January 5th, 2009 at 11:12 pmEugene, I love to read your posts. They are so subtle. I'm trying to learn. My wife says I have no tact.
Seriously, keep em on the ropes.
January 5th, 2009 at 11:13 pmI'm a little confused. I thought these losers wanted to be on the winning side no matter what they believed. Has no one told our trolls that the republicans lost big time?
January 5th, 2009 at 11:19 pmFred
When dealing with rightwing morons sublety is wasted. It just confuses their tiny little substandard brains.
January 5th, 2009 at 11:42 pmGenocide in Gaza? When the Israelis cry "never again" do they forget to add, "unless we're the perpetrators"?
http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSB81320
January 5th, 2009 at 11:58 pmCan someone please retract Glenn Beck's cranium from his rectum?
.
WarDogLRS Says:
The most important document that was hidden
GOOGLE:
BENJAMIN FREEDMAN SPEAKS: A JEWISH DEFECTOR WARNS AMERICA
Knock it off with the Antisemitic raving. However, I did link to a less inflammatory article about the Khazars earlier in the thread. It's not certain, but it seems likely that many Ashkenazi Jews are in fact descended from the Khazars. They were from the Caucasus , and converted as a nation to Judaism the 8th century.
I'd like to use WarDogLRS' post above about why it's dangerous to conflate genetic heritage with cultural heritage and identity: basically, it causes you to fall into the neo-Nazi trap of mixing up peoples' belief systems and sense of community with their DNA. Next thing you know, you're nodding along to crap like the above, and then it's just a slippery slope to prancing about in jackboots and armbands.
An interesting little side story about the Khazar conversion: legend has it that Christians, Muslims and Jews all sent representatives to the Khazar king, who wanted to convert to a monotheistic religion from paganism. The King interviewed the Muslim first, and asked "which of the other two is less wrong?" The Muslim had to answer "the Jews, since we share the same source." Then invited in the Christian, asked the same question, and got the same answer. Then he invited in the Jew and said "I choose your religion, since they both agree with you."
But more likely it was a holding tactic to keep off the Christians to his West and the Muslims to his South and maintain independence from both.
.
Hippie_crusher Says:
This site SUCKS!!!!!!!!
Where is the story about nbc (national barak channel) banning Ann Coulter for life????????????????
Nowhere, seeing as how it's not true. We don't do the fake news stories around here, you're thinking of Drudge.
.
Hippie_crusher Says:
“We are just not interested in anyone so highly critical of President-elect Obama, right now,” a TODAY insider reveals.
THIS IS WHERE YOU GUYS GET YOUR NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!??????????
Who here said they get their news from the Today show? But I'd prefer a Coulter-free source, certainly. I sure as hell ain't gonna take my news from a homophobic racist transsexual.
.
Hippie_crusher Says:
WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How come all the off-the-chart extremist radicals say that? About everything.
.
pete Says:
Genocide in Gaza? When the Israelis cry “never again” do they forget to add, “unless we’re the perpetrators”?
Man, I don't know what's up there. Except for Netanyahu and Rabin, they just plumb lost they goddamn minds. I guess things are going to get really bad before they find their own Obama.
January 6th, 2009 at 1:54 am.
So...
... Glen Beck seeks peace?
I would not have known.
Q U E S T I O N:
Is Beck correct in associating the assassination of Anwar El Sadat as being Jimmy Carter's responsibility?
Is Beck correct in correlating the failure if Israel and the Palestinians to "MAINTAIN" that peace as being Carter's fault?
Rational minds need to know so as to understand Beck's irrational mind and reasoning's.
.
January 6th, 2009 at 2:45 amGlenn Beck is to coherent and lucid thought as to what the Detroit Lions are to winning football games.
If Glenn Beck ever wins an award given out by a non-partisan media group, the Rapture is imminent.
If I didn't know better, I'd call Glenn's AA sponsor to make sure he isn't drunk on air. No one can say all of that and truly mean it, right...while saying they are educated?
January 6th, 2009 at 2:46 am.
So...
According to Beck, good intentions that go bad, are not good while bad intentions that bode well for a choice few are good?
People, please remember...
UP IS NOT DOWN!!!
.
January 6th, 2009 at 2:49 amAmericans--we Americans--really don't understand this nightmare in the Mideast. Right, Left, Jew, goy, nobody. And that's because it's a tribal conflict, and our fundamental mythology is that people are just people. (It's mythology, not reality. But it's what we invoke in our theories and abstract solutions.)
Why can't they just live together? Everybody lives by their own rituals, prays at certain times, doesn't eat that, everybody gets to visit their favorite shrines and historic sites, shops, buys and sells, gets along.
But that ignores the tribes. When tribalism predominates, people don't grow together even if they live cheek by jowl for centuries. And everyday reality does not win out against the Status of Jerusalem.
Neither side is acting the way we think theyshould act. And there's plenty of people on both sides who don't believe it anddon't want to.
But Sadat gets assassinated by his own people. But Peres gets assassinated by its own people.
And the tribalists on both sides cycle through vendetta, and believe that a reasonable compromise is getting everything their side wants.
We think that Israel should act better, because we had something to do with its foundation. And it should. But the West kept Jews as a tribe for millennia, giving themno land they couldn't beexpelled from, no property theycouldn't have confiscated, no basic human rights. And the Sephardim that make up much of Israel were treated worse. We gave them tribaism as their only option from the time we destroyed Jerusalem to the Holocaust.
And this isn't Judaism and it isn't Islam It's older than that.
Ultimately I have no solution--nor, it seems, does anybody else. There is no system that will both guarantee peace and assuage even a minimal sense of justice. Oh, it would solve things if the Jews were pushed back into the sea and forbidden to live in Palestine, and (once again) forced to survive on the enlightened sufferance of the Western Democracies. Maybe they could live on Madagascar.
But that's not going to happen. And I don't see any political solution that will work as long as both sides act the way they do.
I find both the romantic support for Israel on the Right and the comfortable vitriol against Israel on the Left more concerned with making ourselves feel better than solving a problem. And that's all the tougher because I don't see a solution to the problem.
Cure tribalism, yes, but how do you do that?
In the book of Joshua, that violent book of the Bible, God gives Canaan to the Israelites. He gives them miracle after miracle, and makes them triumphant in battle. In return, He decrees that the Jews are not to treat with the other tribes in Canaan, not to trade with them and certainly not to intermarry with them.
January 6th, 2009 at 2:50 amAnd the Israelites promptly disobey him.
The authors of the Bible saw the fundamental paradox even back then.
..You can now vote at Obama’s site to
“Appoint a Special Prosecutor for the Crimes of the Bush Administration”
It didn’t work for a few days there.
You’ll find it at about idea #14 on page two. Need to login if it doesn’t immediately recognize you.
http://www.change.org/ideas?page=2
January 6th, 2009 at 3:34 amRationalize this, Glenn Beck:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/06/gaza-israel
January 6th, 2009 at 8:28 amYeah, you stupid putz. It's Carter's fault.
January 6th, 2009 at 10:33 amheyt be bu gunleride mi gorecektik yani ask olsun
January 6th, 2009 at 10:34 ampbg Says:
Cure tribalism, yes, but how do you do that?
Do you really think that those of us who are "beyond tribalism" are so because our culture is better than theirs? Then you're being tribal. People everywhere have the capability to stop being stupid. In fact, there are plenty of people (I'd guess roughly half) in all the "tribes" throughout the world who are perfectly smart about it and who wish that the others would knock it off with the bigotry and warfare. So the cure involves getting them into power. How we do that I'm not sure, as we only recently managed it ourselves.
January 6th, 2009 at 11:13 amJuan Cole on the Israeli and Bushie Lies and half-truths on the Gaza Genocide
http://www.juancole.com/2009/01/have-bush-and-neocons-ruined-it-for.html
January 6th, 2009 at 2:28 pmPeres: Israel not worried by international image
http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=29597
January 6th, 2009 at 7:07 pm