Bush ‘seriously considering’ pardon of Iraq war vet who killed unarmed Iraqi civilian.
Bush ‘seriously considering’ pardon of Iraq war vet who killed unarmed Iraqi civilian.
In Feb. 2008, a military judge convicted Sgt. Evan Vela, a 24-year-old U.S. Army sniper, “and sentenced him to 10 years in prison for killing an Iraqi civilian who wandered into the hiding place where six soldiers were sleeping.” Vela, who was sentenced to a dishonorable discharge, was found guilty of planting an AK-47 on the dead Iraqi man’s body and of lying to military investigators about the shooting. According to a letter sent by the White House to Vela’s family, President Bush is now “strongly considering” a request to pardon Vela:
The father of an eastern Idaho soldier says he has received a letter from the White House confirming that his request that his son be pardoned by President Bush is being “seriously considered.”
Curtis Carnahan says he received the letter last week.
Sen. Mike Crapo (R-ID) and Rep. Mike Simpson (R-ID) have written letters to Bush on behalf of Vela, urging that the president grant him clemency. Crapo and Simpson argued that Vela “was simply following the orders of his superiors.”
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While I don’t agree with a pardon in this case, I think the truly criminal thing here was committed by the men who sent these young men and women to that country and forced them to be in situations where they have to make these choices.
Which Democrat or liberal blog is going to stand up and say that maybe lying into an aggressive war deserves some kind of criminal penalty?
January 5th, 2009 at 8:03 pmHe could afford a pardon?
January 5th, 2009 at 8:10 pmSo Crapo and Simpson are pressing for the indictment of his superiors, yes? What was the order? “Shoot all civilians on sight, then plant false evidence on the corpse?”
I say let this guy go if and only if his superiors are convicted for the same crime, for giving such an order.
If Bush signs this, he’s basically giving the finger to the Iraqi population. Again.
January 5th, 2009 at 8:11 pmVela … was found guilty of planting an AK-47 on the dead Iraqi man’s body and of lying to military investigators about the shooting.
Crapo and Simpson argued that Vela “was simply following the orders of his superiors.”
Two questions:
1. If Vela’s superiors ordered him to plant evidence and lie, how come they’re not on trial? Or were they in turn following Bush’s orders?
2. What happened to the customary 5-year waiting period before a pardon, apparently being ignored here just as it was for Scooter Libby’s commutation?
January 5th, 2009 at 8:17 pmAccording to your last hyperlink, the solider did not receive the pardon and the story was posted over two weeks ago.
Just saying.
January 5th, 2009 at 8:25 pmGeorge Bush will pardon himself at some point. No different than when he took the USA’s signature off the International Criminal Court in 2001 to avoid prosecution of his military and himself.
January 5th, 2009 at 8:27 pmMy bad.
Read the story out of context. Although I think everyone needs to hear what the orders were before we debate whether he should get a pardon or not.
January 5th, 2009 at 8:29 pmCrapo and Simpson argued that Vela “was simply following the orders of his superiors.”
– - Uh huh, the Nazis at Nuremberg tried that exact defense too. So, how’d that work out?
January 5th, 2009 at 8:30 pmmbrett Says:
Although I think everyone needs to hear what the orders were before we debate whether he should get a pardon or not.
The fact that none of these stories are telling us who his superiors were or what the orders were, and yet people still think he should just be let go, pretty much gives us enough to run with. Crapo and Simpson don’t seem to care, as their reasoning hasn’t been given beyond “he was just following orders.”
If
January 5th, 2009 at 8:32 pmNuremburg made it very clear that ‘just following orders’ is not a good reason to murder innocent people. Why is it that the right side – THE LAW AND ORDER SIDE – can’t seem to follow the law? IOKIYAR, I guess.
January 5th, 2009 at 8:40 pmAh, the Nuremburg Defense — you don’t get that much around here these days…except when you’re dealing with repuke war criminals like we have in our midst now…
January 5th, 2009 at 8:40 pmOK – I can understand that some soldiers in a “peace zone “(after all, the WH says it isn’t a war and peace is reigning), hiding out in a building trying to catch some sleep – suddenly awakened by an unknown person – I can understand that they may be a tad trigger happy.
But planting evidence and trying to cover up – these are active attempts to subvert the legal system.
Knowing Bush, I think the pardon is in honor of them subverting justice.
January 5th, 2009 at 8:49 pmIf this guy deserves clemency, let President Obama deal with it. If Bush does it, he’s just throwing more gasoline on the blazing foriegn policy barn fire he’s handing the next administration.
January 5th, 2009 at 8:53 pmNot even the military tribunal agrees with this. If Bush thinks it’s a good idea, it isn’t.
January 5th, 2009 at 8:56 pmWTF? It was only an Iraqi that the soldier killed. It isn’t like he killed anyone who mattered. This is the reason America doesn’t allow its killers to be answerable to the laws of the countries it occupies.
January 5th, 2009 at 8:57 pmI think the world might be waiting to see what we (the American citizens) are going to do about all of the abuse and criminality that has been done in our name.
#13 is right. This will absolutely elevate the hatred towards the US and our soldiers. Not a good thing.
January 5th, 2009 at 8:59 pmPretty damn good comments all, from where I sit.
Crapo and Simpson make an awfully bad argument because as already noted “just following orders” isn’t an excuse when there are not only agreed-upon “Rules of War” but that there are rules governing soldiers’ conduct in war set by their own military.
Would pardoning Sgt. Vela on the basis of “just following orders” have positive or negative implications for those who issued the orders? I;m thinking of artful answers for both sides of the equation but I can’t articulate them yet.
This much I do know, it is invariably only the Privates and NCO’s who, if they are hauled up on charges, get jailed. Never the officers.
January 5th, 2009 at 9:02 pmCrapo and Simpson argued that Vela “was simply following the orders of his superiors.”
Crapo and Simpson are forgetting that in the military, your oath says that you will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over you, not just any order given. Soldiers can refuse to obey an illegal order with impunity.
January 5th, 2009 at 9:15 pmLook, I’m not saying that I know this soldier is a horrible person. For all I know (and what’s more likely), a combination of poor training, overlapping contradictory orders and poor rules of engagement are entirely to blame for what happened. But it’s a question of law and international sovereignty here. If there are no consequences governing the behavior of our soldiers in Iraq, then there is no legitimacy to our being there (setting aside the legitimacy of our going there).
The “support our troops” wingnuts need to learn that support means not throwing them into insane situations without telling them how to handle those situations. Abu Ghraib falls into this category. This guy’s case might or might not.
January 5th, 2009 at 9:17 pmWayne A. Schneider Says:
Soldiers can refuse to obey an illegal order with impunity.
It’s worth mentioning that the Army doesn’t provide any training regarding what’s an illegal order or not.
January 5th, 2009 at 9:19 pm5thE,
January 5th, 2009 at 9:22 pmYou agree with PhuckUCharley @15?
Dubya commuted the execution of a man who committed maybe 350 murders. The movie “Henry: Portrait Of A Serial Killer” was loosely based on him.
From Wikipedia:
“…..the only death penalty case among the 153 that came across Bush’s desk in his tenure as Texas Governor in which he intervened and commuted the death sentence.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Lee_Lucas
Dubya did not commute the execution of Karla Faye Tucker, whom he smirkingly mocked.
January 5th, 2009 at 9:25 pmYeah, Keith–isn’t that bizarre!
January 5th, 2009 at 9:43 pmAll of them. next question?
Look, this is the kind of thing that you get when you wage war…..the war mongers don’t care. Only we can control them if we have the will.
January 5th, 2009 at 9:46 pmRandomChaos: :5thE, You agree with PhuckUCharley @15?”
Umm, no. I can’t tell if ChuckU Farley is being ironic/sardonic/sarcastic or not.
If it was ironic/sarcastic, then it is low-grade, so a decided ‘meh’ from me for the effort.
If I read the comment literally, then I absolutely disagree with it.
The moniker and style/length of the comment in combination with its artless content suggests to me a troll, though it could be just a juvenile trying to be instantly clever.
I’ve dumped a quick comment once in a while on other ‘friendly’ blogs I;ve not visited before myself and then had to explain what I really meant to the regulars,so I try and offer the benefit of the doubt when I see new names and brief comments (I’ve not been commenting as often as usual on TP for the last week so this is the first I’ve seen of this commenter)
January 5th, 2009 at 9:54 pmTo the chagrin of longtime Idaho residents, the northern and eastern parts of the state have had a large influx of white separatists and supremacists (there is a difference, however moot and noxious). I don’t know about this guy’s beliefs but if he’s from eastern Idaho, he isn’t far from similar influence.
January 5th, 2009 at 10:14 pmTerran1212 Says:
Which Democrat or liberal blog is going to stand up and say that maybe lying into an aggressive war deserves some kind of criminal penalty?
This must be your first visit to this site, because we say that all the time here.
January 5th, 2009 at 10:18 pmTerran1212 Says:
January 5th, 2009 at 8:03 pm
Where have you been, Rip van Winkle?
January 5th, 2009 at 10:26 pmHey Zooey. What do you think of that slur at #26? Painting with too broad a brush?
January 5th, 2009 at 10:31 pmCrapo and Simpson are complete idiots. Hmmmm, Larry Craig is being rather quiet……
January 5th, 2009 at 10:32 pmThe name “Crapo” should have told you something.
January 5th, 2009 at 10:33 pmOf course he will seat this war criminal that has committed crimes against humanity – dur chimpfurher and gang are just as responsible – actually, more so.
Besides, this will provide cover when he issues pardons for the rest of the criminal cabal.
Typical repug/neocon strategy – overwhelm us with BS and constantly change the story (lies). People don’t know what to believe so they listen to rush and the the pundits on faux news.
January 5th, 2009 at 10:37 pmKeith Says:
Hey Zooey. What do you think of that slur at #26? Painting with too broad a brush?
January 5th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
WAY too broad, my friend. The organized white supremacists were chased out of northern Idaho years ago. All that remain are average everyday f uckwits.
January 5th, 2009 at 10:38 pmOnly the disorganized left? :) just kidding
January 5th, 2009 at 10:38 pmKeith Says:
The name “Crapo” should have told you something.
January 5th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
Hell, I never voted for him. The Senate Queen was my Senator. Never voted for him either. :-)
January 5th, 2009 at 10:39 pmKeith Says:
Only the disorganized left? :) just kidding
January 5th, 2009 at 10:38 pm
Yep. I once saw one of these idiots screaming “72 virgins!” at a group of Mexican kids.
January 5th, 2009 at 10:40 pmYep. I once saw one of these idiots screaming “72 virgins!” at a group of Mexican kids.
Wouldn’t think they would have too large an Islamic population. :)
January 5th, 2009 at 10:43 pm“Senate Queen” is really good! Wayne’s a regular Weird Al Yankovitch.
January 5th, 2009 at 10:47 pmSimply following orders? Are they kidding? It would be laughable if it wasn’t so sickening.
The “following orders” defense didn’t work 60+ years ago at Nuremberg, and it shouldn’t work today.
Bush, of course, will accept it. Grampa Prescott Bush was happy with whatever the Nazis’ did. Their standard “defense,” I’m sure, will be just fine with his grandson.
January 5th, 2009 at 10:49 pmThanks, Keith. Luckily for me, Al stays away from politics. Otherwise, I have to bow to his superior kung fu.
January 5th, 2009 at 10:49 pmKeith Says:
Wouldn’t think they would have too large an Islamic population. :)
January 5th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
We’re a University town, so we have a few Muslim families. They are way more sophisticated than the cracka population.
January 5th, 2009 at 10:52 pmKeith Says:
“Senate Queen” is really good! Wayne’s a regular Weird Al Yankovitch.
January 5th, 2009 at 10:47 pm
Wayne is one of TheZoo’s resident geniuses. :)
January 5th, 2009 at 10:53 pmSomebody needs to plant an AK in W’s hands. He’s brain dead and needs to be put our of his misery.
January 5th, 2009 at 11:22 pmIt’s too bad some commenters can’t recognize sarcasm.
January 5th, 2009 at 11:53 pmAw, shucks, Zooey. Thanks. I am merely one among many there, including yourself. :)
January 6th, 2009 at 12:09 amVote ThinkProgress best liberal blog!
http://2008.weblogawards.org/polls/best-liberal-blog/
January 6th, 2009 at 12:09 amBush pardoned Israel for dropping millions of cluster bomblets in Lebanon.
What else can he do to show his disregard for dark skined Middle Eastern people?
Maybe, the middle finger salute?
January 6th, 2009 at 12:13 amAnd Bush wonders why they chuck shoes at him.
January 6th, 2009 at 12:57 amHeck, a pardon ain’t enough. I smell a Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient here…
January 6th, 2009 at 1:24 am.
I SUPPORT THE TROOPS…
… WHO REFUSE ILLEGAL ORDERS!
.
January 6th, 2009 at 2:26 amIt’s so nice that Bush and his Republican goons equate Iraqi and Afghan lives to that of the prize in a Cracker Jack box.
These people must think these “nameless & faceless” people overseas are just a point total in a video game at this point, with the RESET button about to be hit.
Then it all goes away and these patriotic killers can finally sleep at night, for the thought that they “tried” to do something. And that thought will be worthless when history puts it through the truth wringer.
January 6th, 2009 at 2:32 amThe idiot is trying to pass legislation by the end of this week that would pardon his crimes against humanity (that includes torture, illegal invasion of Iraq, slaughter of innocent civilians). The worm is trying to obtain clearance of future prosecution for war crimes.
If we as citizens can’t prevent him from doing so, we will all hang!
January 6th, 2009 at 2:52 amYou can now vote at Obama’s site to
“Appoint a Special Prosecutor for the Crimes of the Bush Administration”
It didn’t work for a few days there.
You’ll find it at about idea #14 on page two. Need to login if it doesn’t immediately recognize you.
http://www.change.org/ideas?page=2
January 6th, 2009 at 3:25 amI can’t believe the lack of empathy for this soldier…
“killing an Iraqi civilian who wandered into the hiding place where six soldiers were sleeping.”
This was a BAD situation. The kid is not necessarily a villian. In all likelyhood he was startled by someone who walked into the wrong place at the wrong time.
He effed up, no doubt about it, but ten years? Ten years because he made a bad call in a hostile zone and compounded it with the dumb decision to try and cover it up.
January 6th, 2009 at 9:53 amThe fact that none of these stories are telling us who his superiors were or what the orders were, and yet people still think he should just be let go, ancak su anda benimde sitemi görmek istiyorsaniz lütfen t?klay?n pretty much gives us enough to run with. Crapo and Simpson don’t seem to care, as their reasoning hasn’t been given beyond “he was just following orders.”
January 6th, 2009 at 10:24 amdeebaser Says:
This was a BAD situation. The kid is not necessarily a villian. In all likelyhood he was startled by someone who walked into the wrong place at the wrong time.
Maybe they were startled but they didn’t kill the man by accident, which could be somewhat justifiable. Read the report. Heck, here’s the interesting part:
They let the boy go, and minutes later they shoot the father.
He effed up, no doubt about it, but ten years? Ten years because he made a bad call in a hostile zone and compounded it with the dumb decision to try and cover it up.
No, he didn’t make a bad call and then tried to cover it up. He was ordered to do so. And now he’s a scapegoat for his commanding officer.
Sucks to be him, but that’s what you get from an Army that protects his officers and leaves the soldiers to hang.
January 6th, 2009 at 11:28 amEveryone of the soldiers followed orders signed by Rummy and Cheney. Yet many soldiers are still in jail for doing what they were ordered to do. To pardon one soldier who murdered an Iraqi yet leave all the others in jail when didn’t commit murder is wrong. If the reason for this pardon is the soldier followed orders then all should be pardoned for doing the same thing.
January 6th, 2009 at 12:59 pmI am active and financially contribute to soldiers who stand up as patriots and refuse to follow illegal orders and thereby maintain and honor their oath to the Constitution.
However as a Vietnam Veteran, I also realize that there is an indoctrination brainwashing process used during basic traing and maintained to a lessor degree throught military service that many are not equipped to overcome. Today’s new soldiers are products of a dumbed downed Ronny Reagan public education system that starts the brainwashing process early in life and leaves all young people less equipped to see truth. Therefore I do passively support Presidential Pardons for most convicted soldiers.
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