Cornyn’s Absurd Hypothetical For Holder: What If Waterboarding Were Your Only Interrogation Option?
Cornyn’s Absurd Hypothetical For Holder: What If Waterboarding Were Your Only Interrogation Option?
During his confirmation hearing today, Attorey General nominee Eric Holder unequivocally rejected torture. “No one is above the law,” Holder said repeatedly during the hearing.
Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX) could not fathom that an Attorney General would reject a practice that both is unlawful and endangers Americans. He tried to get Holder to back off his anti-torture stance by presenting an absurd “ticking time bomb” hypothetical in which thousands of American lives are at stake. “You would still refuse to condone aggressive interrogation techniques?” Cornyn asked. When Holder replied that waterboarding is not the only interrogation method, Cornyn insisted, “Assume that it was”:
HOLDER: I think your hypothetical assumes a premise that I’m not willing to concede.
CORNYN: I know you don’t like my hypothetical.
HOLDER: No, the hypothetical’s fine; the premise that underlies it I’m not willing to accept, and that is that waterboarding is the only way that I could get that information from those people.
CORNYN: Assume that it was.
HOLDER: [Laughs] Given the knowledge that I have about other techniques and what I’ve heard from retired admirals and generals and FBI agents, there are other ways in a timely fashion that you can get information out of people that is accurate and will produce useable intelligence. And so it’s hard for me to accept or to answer your hypothetical without accepting your premise. And in fact, I don’t think I can do that.
Watch it:
A few minutes later, Sen. Dick Durbin (D-IL) identified where Cornyn most likely thought up his torture-is-the-only-option scenario: “I understand Senator Cornyn’s questions. They are questions that anyone who watches Jack Bauer on ‘24′ would ask.”
Intelligence officials have repeatedly rejected the idea of a ticking time bomb scenario. Jack Cloonan, who spent 25 years as an FBI special agent and interrogated members of al Qaeda, said that he has “been hard pressed to find a situation where anybody” can say “that they’ve ever encountered the ticking bomb scenario” when interrogating terrorists. He said it is a “red herring” and “[i]n the real world it doesn’t happen.”
One law professor, who has extensively researched interrogation, said she had heard of only one ticking time bomb scenario. “It’s on the show ‘24.’ And that’s the only one I know of.”
Transcript:
CORNYN: I wanna just ask you a hypothetical. Earlier, you condemned the use of waterboarding. But you’re familiar with the ticking time bomb scenario, and I just wanna pose a hypothetical for you. Let’s say as Attorney General you find out that there are terrorists that have access to chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons, and that you have a detainee who’s in possession of information that, if disclosed, would prevent those weapons from being detonated in the United States and thousands, maybe tens of thousands people being killed. You would still refuse to condone aggressive interrogation techniques like waterboarding to get that information, which would, under my hypothetical, save perhaps tens of thousands of lives.
HOLDER: Well, I think there are a couple of ways in which I’d look at that. One, I would not assume that because I say waterboarding should not be done that that’s the only tool, the only mechanism, that we have in our arsenal to try to get that information from that person as quickly as we could. I also think I’m not at all certain that waterboarding somebody, torturing somebody – whatever technique you want to use – is necessarily going to produce the results that we want. What I’ve heard from the experts is that people will say almost anything to avoid torture. They will give you whatever information they think you want to hear. And so, I’m not at all certain that given the time sensitivity that I assume we have in your hypothetical, that waterboarding that person would necessarily give us the result that we want. And I think we also have to understand that we have other things in our arsenal that we could use – other techniques that we could use that would, I think, perhaps the result that we want.
CORNYN: Well, of course, torture’s illegal under international treaties and under domestic laws, and I’ve heard people talk about torture in expansive ways, where things like sleep deprivation, other techniques that maybe you would employ as an alternative are considered torture to them as well. But under my hypothetical, if that were the only thing standing between you and deaths of tens of thousands of Americans, you would decline to use that interrogation technique in order to save those lives. Is that correct?
HOLDER: Again, I think your hypothetical assumes a premise that I’m not willing to concede.
CORNYN: I know you don’t like my hypothetical.
HOLDER: No, the hypothetical’s fine; the premise that underlies it I’m not willing to accept, and that is that waterboarding is the only way that I could get that information from those people.
CORNYN: Assume that it was.
HOLDER: [Laughs] Given the knowledge that I have about other techniques and what I’ve heard from retired admirals and generals and FBI agents, there are other ways in a timely fashion that you can get information out of people that is accurate and will produce useable intelligence. And so it’s hard for me to accept or to answer your hypothetical without accepting your premise. And in fact, I don’t think I can do that.
[...]
DURBIN: I listened to your opening statement and in three words, in three words, the world changed as far as I’m concerned, because you stated without hesitation that waterboarding is torture. I can’t tell you how many times Senator Whitehouse and I asked that of the current Attorney General and we could never, ever get a straight declarative sentence. I think it’s important — important for our country, important for our position in the world. And I understand Senator Cornyn’s questions. They are questions that anyone who watches Jack Bauer on “24″ would ask. And most Americans do, I have. But it’s a different scenario, and when we’re going to draw up values and principles and laws, we have to really be cognizant of the fact that you can always construct the scenario that will challenge the foundation of any legal principle. And I think it’s far better for us to stand by standards that have guided our nation for generations and return to them now with this new administration.
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Puhleeze!
January 15th, 2009 at 7:43 pmThe neocons live in a “what if” little world. What if those ground based radars are really super laser beams? We’re doomed!
What if is a little game the mind plays. It has a great deal of survival value when it isn’t coupled with a compulsion to act as if something were likely or true because you thought of it. Used as a justification it is weak. Used as the basis for a policy, it is insane.
Clearly, some people just really want to torture somebody.
January 15th, 2009 at 7:45 pmYou go, Eric Holder! I’m with you and all the
rest of our incoming government.
Thank God John McCain is sane. He’s the only one who
January 15th, 2009 at 7:46 pmwas according to the article.
These hard-line GOPers just can’t grasp the concept of the Rule of Law. They prefer what they see as “soft laws” i.e. those that can be broken if and when they see fit.
And who can blame them, really? They have learned at the feet of the bastards, er, masters.
Four more days, folk. Just four more days…
PEACE
January 15th, 2009 at 7:47 pmCornyn is my state Senator. To think he served on the Texas Supreme Court, but we did have Judge Roy Bean with his frontier justice. Cornyn is a Bean.
January 15th, 2009 at 7:47 pmI recommend that the entire, outgoing bush administration all be water boarded before they leave. To help reduce our national debt, tickets will be sold to witness this event.
January 15th, 2009 at 7:48 pmCornyn needs to be removed from office by force or recall. He is clearly unfit for the human race.
January 15th, 2009 at 7:49 pm“John, what th’ hell are you doing?”
“Oops, oh hi honey, er….I was just assuming a hypothetical where I was…uh….stranded on a desert island and..um…the only clothes available were your panties, stockings, pumps and garter belt…”
“And the lipstick and eyeshadow?”
“uh…Sunblock, honey….”
January 15th, 2009 at 7:49 pmIt was obvious that Spector had an axe to grind, evidently over Ashcroft’s treatment when he was being questioned. Cornyn and Sessions seemed to be concerned with making sure that the reichwingnuts would still be able to say well Clinton treated them as criminals instead of war prisoners and our way was better than that way. These guys are so silly. Spector really had an axe to grind with Holder over the Clinton years.
January 15th, 2009 at 7:50 pmCORNYN: OK, you just chased the crime boss through a burning construction zone, and he’s standing on the edge at the top of a parking garage, holding a hot asian chick with a knife to her neck. In is other hand he has a detonator. Do you take the shot?”
HOLDER: [laughs] Senator, that’s just -
CORNYN: DO YOU TAKE THE SHOT?!?
HOLDER: Sigh… OK, how hot is the asian chick again?
January 15th, 2009 at 7:53 pmShould I live to be a hundred, I will never understand how the hell Cornyn ever got a high school diploma, much less a law degree. I was listening to the testimony in the car and I couldn’t believe his line of questioning.
Another beaut is Jeff Session–talk about another dragging, mouth breather–this guy is as stupid as Cornyn. They are both clueless.
Eric Holder was so gracious, elegant, and gave outstanding responses to the questions that were posed to him. Obama reminds me a lot of him.
January 15th, 2009 at 7:53 pmhey, Cornyn, what if we ran out of oil & could only run cars on the blood of aborted fetuses?
I know, I know…BUT ASSUME THAT IT WAS.
Leave it to Republicans to devise a worst-case scenario, where maybe you might question your ethics on torture, as justification for the carte blanche this Administration has used to accept torture for scenarios that ARE NOT worst-case scenarios.
“Honey honey honey, I only slept with your sister because I imagined a world where she & I were the last two people on Earth. I’m sure you’d agree, were your sister & I the last two people on Earth, it’d be OK if we did each other all the time, right? Now…what’s for dinner?”
January 15th, 2009 at 7:56 pmcherokeerose Says:
Thank God John McCain is sane. He’s the only one who
was according to the article.
He’s the only one of them who knows what torture feels like. That oughtta tell you something.
January 15th, 2009 at 7:56 pm“25″ Preview: “Who’s YOUR Hero, Baby?”
Scenario 1: There’s been a bombing, and somehow you took somebody you KNEW was one of the bombers alive, and he tells you there’s another bomb, somewhere, but he won’t tell you where it is? Would you then be permitted to torture?
Alternative scenario: You are a partisan, fighting an oppressor/invader. You carry the fight to the invaders’ homeland. You are part of a cell that plants two bombs, but you are captured before the second one goes off. The authorities take you in custody and begin to torture you. You hold out. Torture increases. You break; you tell them what they want to know. Then they kill you. And the second bomb goes off somewhere else, anyway, because your associates saw you taken and changed their plans.
Who’s the hero, baby?
January 15th, 2009 at 7:58 pmheh, hanshiro and I seem to be two sidees to the same perverted coin.
January 15th, 2009 at 7:59 pmMcCain was nominated because they needed a plausible candidate who could plausibly throw the election they plausibly had no intention of “winning.” The single significant signifier of this plot was the selection of the utterly implausible (for now, anyway, at least, gratefully) Sarah Palin. Even with her on the implausible ticket, 46%–almost 60 MILLION–of Murkin voters voted R.
Now that that chore is over, he goes back to the usual business of the Club.
January 15th, 2009 at 8:05 pmOT:
Bush’s farewell address is tonight. Incoming news: Plane Crashes into Hudson river, everyone survives!
Bush gets upstaged! Classic!
Those people – pilots, passengers, boat drivers, rescuers – all deserve praise for the job they all did tonight!
January 15th, 2009 at 8:12 pmI would love to waterboard Bush and Cheney in order to extract information from them. I wouldn’t care if it was the truth or not. I just want to waterboard both of them for a dozen years or so.
January 15th, 2009 at 8:13 pmcherokeerose Says: Thank God John McCain is sane. He’s the only one who was according to the article.
13. ElBruce Says: He’s the only one of them who knows what torture feels like. That oughtta tell you something.
(From Rolling Stone’s “Make-Believe Maverick”)
January 15th, 2009 at 8:15 pm
Diehards like Cornyn don’t care how ridiculous these stunts make them look. They don’t care that the majority of Americans are staunchly anti-torture. Instead Cornyn is content to chip away at Obama cabinet nominees whenever and wherever possible. If at the same he can throw red meat to the 24 torture-porn set and what’s left of the GOP base, then so much the better.
-AF
January 15th, 2009 at 8:15 pmAndrew Sullivan Is A Fraud
15. slappy magoo Says: heh, hanshiro and I seem to be two sidees to the same perverted coin.
Great minds, straight for the gutter…
January 15th, 2009 at 8:16 pmCornyn’s performance was disgraceful. He was prickly in his questioning, focusing on minutiae, suggesting hypotheticals, and attempting to extract a response that could be later used as a “gotcha.”
Holder conducted himself admirably, patiently and sincerely – compared to his predecessors (Ashcroft, Gonzales and Mukasey) he shows the potential and promise for restoration of integrity and honor, fairness and non-partisanship to the DoJ.
After that, I saw Boehner on PBS – another loser like Cornyn.
January 15th, 2009 at 8:20 pmThey are so into themselves, they can’t see how ridiculous they are.
The monkey in the White House gave his farewell speech tonight.
He has removed himself from reality, and believes he can rewrite history.
Good riddance to the worst president in our history.
Remember to give him the one-finger salute when he leaves the White House on Tuesday.
January 15th, 2009 at 8:24 pmhttp://www.fingersalutetobush.org/
Is Arlen Specter beginning to lose his faculties?
Found this little tidbit while checking up on him… from Wikipedia…
At the recommendation of Rep. Gerald R. Ford, he worked for the Warren Commission, investigating the assassination of John F. Kennedy. As an assistant counsel for the commission, he authored or co-authored[2] the controversial “single bullet theory,” which suggested the wounds to President Kennedy and non-fatal wounds to Texas Governor John Connally were caused by the same bullet. This was a crucial assertion for the Warren Commission, since if the two had been wounded by separate bullets, that would have demonstrated the presence of a second assassin and therefore a conspiracy.[3]
January 15th, 2009 at 8:48 pm
Two thumbs up for Holder and Durbin. The more people who put Cornyn in his place the better. Cornyn is a hack, and always has been. He tried to treat holder the same as his asshat pal, Inhofe did to try and get Al Gore to admit what he ways spewing was all hot air – didn’t work then either.
He was a bad judge in Texas, he’s been a terrible senator and today made the final showing of why everyone should show him nothing but contempt.
January 15th, 2009 at 8:53 pmpwnd!
January 15th, 2009 at 8:57 pmBig John is a Cowboy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt05KC3Add8
January 15th, 2009 at 8:57 pmDid I not tell you Holder was going to pimp-slap these people into next week? Everybody was so worried about all the stupid crap they were going to use against him, I was saying “give ‘em some more rope.” But I’m relieved that Holder is actually pulling through.
.
hanshiro Says:
(From Rolling Stone’s “Make-Believe Maverick”)
That article was so crazy-lefty slanted with personal rumors and such… but that point is true. McCain supported the Military Commissions Act, which essentially attempts to legalize torture. That’s when I first realized that the McCain of 2006 was not the McCain of 2000. He sold his soul for the R nomination. If someone who was tortured didn’t stand up against torture as codified by law, then he would sell out anything.
The fact that he said he was against it during the primaries just demonstrates the beginning of his downward spiral into flip-flop madness.
January 15th, 2009 at 9:01 pmThey can come up with these made-for-TV worst case scenarios to justify torture, but no one could predict 9/11, flooded New Orleans, or the latest: economic meltdown. If only there was a TV show about those events before they took place.
January 15th, 2009 at 9:06 pmOne last propaganda piece tonight, and Scott McClellan was on Keith Olbermann to top it off.
You know one other thing that irks me about this smirking chimp? He talks over and over again about the changing of leaders that’s a part of democracy as if we happen to be lucky he’s not installing himself permanent dictator.
January 15th, 2009 at 9:09 pmSomeone really needs to start asking these guys like Cornyn: “Would you still refuse to condone handing out copies of Harry Potter if it were the only interrogation method available?”
Truly, this gets to the heart of the matter: These guys have no respect or recognition of the power of kindness. It’s all about their belief in “the big bully”.
January 15th, 2009 at 9:13 pmThe laugh after “assume that it was” is so awesomely derisive. It’s at 2:45. The audience laughed also. At Cornyn.
.
McWars Says:
… as if we happen to be lucky he’s not installing himself permanent dictator
We are. Of course, he’s got an active military unit stationed inside the U.S. (the first time that’s happened since the Spanish-American war). He’s alwo declared the inauguration to be a state of emergency. So keep your fingers crossed. We’re not out of the woods yet – don’t misunderestimate him.
January 15th, 2009 at 9:22 pm“The laugh after “assume that it was” is so awesomely derisive. It’s at 2:45. The audience laughed also. At Cornyn.”
I wouldn’t term it awesomely derisive.
Exceedingly exasperated perhaps, and you are correct in that the joke was on Cornyn.
January 15th, 2009 at 9:27 pmBut reality is that there are other methods. And the interrogators themselves say that these methods are more effective. So the result is like asking what if Kathy Lee Gifford were twice the size of the Incredible Hulk, who would run faster.
Or I remember “Stand by Me”. What if Mighty Mouse fought Superman – who would win ? That will never happen as Mighty Mouse is a cartoon. Yeah, but I bet it would be quite a fight.
January 15th, 2009 at 9:28 pmSuperman is a cartoon too.
January 15th, 2009 at 9:34 pmCornyn just displayed his lack of cognitive flexibility.
According to research by Altemeyer, right-wing authoritarians tend to exhibit cognitive errors and symptoms of faulty reasoning. Specifically, they are more likely to make incorrect inferences from evidence and to hold contradictory ideas that result from compartmentalized thinking. They are also more likely to uncritically accept insufficient evidence that supports their beliefs, and they are less likely to acknowledge their own limitations.
Authoritarians are generally more favorable to punishment and control than personal freedom and diversity. For example, they are more willing to suspend constitutional guarantees of liberty such as the Bill of Rights. They are more likely to advocate strict, punitive sentences for criminals, and they report that they obtain personal satisfaction from punishing such people. They tend to be ethnocentric and prejudiced against racial and ethnic minorities, and homosexuals.
(Source: Wikipedia).
January 15th, 2009 at 9:37 pmCornyn went to the GWB school of politics. Know nothing and be a complete tool.
January 15th, 2009 at 9:46 pmkatebuckingham Says:
“Cornyn just displayed his lack of cognitive flexibility.”
Right on. In other words, he’s stuck.
January 15th, 2009 at 9:48 pmAlong with his fellow mental paraplegics they only see the “us or them” scenario.
This is GREAT!!!!!!!! This is a REAL CHANGE!!!!!! One that will help the USA regain is moral stand internationaly. The other is to hold accountable for War Crimes, Bush/Chenney/Rice/Perle/Wolfowitz/Rumsfeld/Gates/Negroponte/Yhoo/Feith and Co.! Only than we will be able to enjoy the CHANGE!
January 15th, 2009 at 10:07 pmCognitive flexibility, my butt. I am from Texas, Cornyn is MINE and he is only proving that Texans are consistently…uhm…er..well…never mind.
January 15th, 2009 at 10:16 pmTo livelongandprosper:
You are so right! Upstaged. They can try, but they can’t fight intelligence. The black or white scenario is over.
Do you all remember when the Rethugs were the “party of law-and-order? Now they have no laws they won’t violate and no order they won’t obstruct. Goodby.
January 15th, 2009 at 10:17 pmBarack Obama is cognitive flexibility personified!
January 15th, 2009 at 10:22 pm…by the way, what is your conceptual continuity?
January 15th, 2009 at 10:25 pmI mean, is that a real poncho, or is it a Sears poncho?
katebuckingham Says:
According to research by Altemeyer…
Once we get better health care in this country, and therefore fewer doctors dropping infants on their heads, there will hopefully be fewer Republicans to deal with down the line.
January 15th, 2009 at 10:46 pmI love how the Democrats are making total fools out of the Republicans during these confirmation hearings.
January 15th, 2009 at 10:56 pmNevar Says:
…by the way, what is your conceptual continuity?
I mean, is that a real poncho, or is it a Sears poncho?
Were you livin’ at… Reseda?
January 15th, 2009 at 10:59 pmTypical ignorant republican argument, based on a bullsheet strawman argument that doesn’t exist in the real world. Anybody who knows anything about our Constitution and interviewing techniques, would never have gone the path that the Bush/Cheney Admin. has gone. Cornyn makes an abject fool out of himself by proving that he knows nothing about the Constitution, let alone how to be an effective interrogator in the 21st Century. Basing his argument upon a fictional character on TV show!!! Are you kidding John? Seriously, are you trying to upstage the Dumbest President Ever.
January 15th, 2009 at 11:00 pmFarewell, friends and foes, on this eve of a new era I bid you adieu.
My condolences to those who weary of my simplistic snarkisms and perpetual punnery, suffer ye my quirky view.
For all of my loved ones…and you know who you are… it is not for lack of caring and delight that I depart.
Soon we all knuckle down to the work at hand, rebuilding, renewing, rejuvenating and refreshing the environment of Democracy. Remembering and invigorating the words and lives of the emancipators and the teachers, the toilers and the troublemakers.
To borrow a phrase from a greater storyteller than I..
“Be well, do good works, and keep in touch…”
Love,
January 15th, 2009 at 11:00 pmRaven
I read somewhere recently that the new season of 24 will do away with torture. I wonder why that is.
January 15th, 2009 at 11:02 pmI wonder why that is.
January 15th, 2009 at 11:08 pmMaybe ’cause it doesn’t work.
May the celestial door not hit you on the way out, Raven.
“Nevermore.”
January 15th, 2009 at 11:08 pmI’ll answer it..if waterboarding were the only way to get information, then we don’t do it!
If killing someone’s kid were the only way to get information, we don’t do it!
If pulling out someone’s toenails were the only way to get information, WE DON’T DO IT!
Aside from the fact that it doesn’t work, it gets more people killed than it saves. Besides, we have decided that it is wrong, PERIOD. For every hypothetical that someone can think up about how it could save millions of lives, I can come up with just as plausable hypethetical why it would cost more lives. That being said, we can look at recruiting numbers – bombing numbers, death numbers since we started employing “enhanced interogation techniques” as well as unjustified imprisonment, extraordinary rendition, etc… and see that we are creating more enemies and causing more American casualties than we could ever save with torture.
We have lost more american lives in Iraq and Afghanistan than in ALL THE TERRORIST activities against the USA in history INCLUDING 911. That doesn’t even count the scores of thousands injured or the hundreds of thousands (or millions) of Iraqi civilian deaths and injuries.
We had world sympathy and support after 911, instead of using that to repair rifts and create peace, we used it to divide people, create more hate, and destabalize an already shaky area of the world.
I am all for fighting terrorism, but if we are going to do it, we should do it right!!
January 15th, 2009 at 11:24 pmThe Texas Democratic party needs to get a copy of this video tape, followed by Durbin’s assesment, and run it in a commerical when the asshat runs for reelection.
And just for the record, I didn’t vote for him.
January 15th, 2009 at 11:39 pmNevar Says:
…by the way, what is your conceptual continuity?
I mean, is that a real poncho, or is it a Sears poncho?
January 15th, 2009 at 10:25 pm
________
Hmmm, no fooling?
January 15th, 2009 at 11:40 pmFrom long-time ABC News White House correspondent Ann Compton:
President and Mrs. Bush fly to Camp David Friday afternoon for a final weekend in the rustic seclusion of “the Camp.” Over the next 36 hours, White House staffers will go through the behind-the-scenes business of turning in their hard passes, coded lapel pins, “flip-top” fancy White House IDs in leather folders, blackberries, cellphones, and security clearances.
At 9:00 p.m. Friday, the highest-level staffers will turn in their gear; and the West Wing will become a ghost town.
Chief of Staff Josh Bolten, Counselor Ed Gillespie, and Press Secy Dana Perino are the senior staffers who will remain here, on standby. Monday is a federal holiday so the White House would be closed anyway. On Tuesday, Special Agent Donald White of the U.S. Secret Service will shadow President Bush, sit in the customary front “shotgun” seat of the limousine, and guard the President until noon. At 12:01, Agent White steps over to a position behind Barack Obama.
President and Mrs. Bush will helicopter to Andrews Air Force Base after the swearing-in (they do not remain on Capitol Hill for the luncheon); the Cheneys drive to Andrews. At 1:20 pm, the former President will speak (no cameras) to hundreds of loyal friends invited to come out to a hangar at Andrews for the send-off. A handful of these friends have been invited to fly on what can can no longer be called Air Force One (it’s only Air Force One when it ferries the President) to Midland, Texas.
Here at the White House, Laura Bush has already packed up her books and dispatched them to Texas. An aide says the only personal piece of furniture departing is a chest of drawers belonging to President Bush’s grandmother.
Around 10:30 am Tuesday, moving trucks will be waiting to enter the south drive of the White House, bringing the Obama family’s belongings. And a new era.
January 15th, 2009 at 11:42 pmFrom the article I just screened:
On Tuesday, Special Agent Donald White of the U.S. Secret Service will shadow President Bush, sit in the customary front “shotgun” seat of the limousine, and guard the President until noon. At 12:01, Agent White steps over to a position behind Barack Obama.
A man, forced by his career “to live in interesting times.”
January 15th, 2009 at 11:52 pmNevar Says:
Farewell, friends and foes, on this eve of a new era I bid you adieu…
Love,
Raven
January 15th, 2009 at 11:00 pm
January 16th, 2009 at 12:29 am—
Nevar/Raven tell us it is just hiatus and not a true adieu -
as your wit and wisdom would be sorely missed…
someone comitting an illegal act to stop a ticking timebomb? sounds like a perfect example of a very legimate presidential pardon or act of jury nullification..
January 16th, 2009 at 12:33 amAh those GOOPERS.
Just begging for a reason to get their torture chubbies on…
January 16th, 2009 at 12:57 amI’m certainly warming up to this guy….
…Bush=WarCriminal…
…Republicans=Mafia…
…justice for Bush/Cheney & Co….
…4 days.
January 16th, 2009 at 1:29 amWhy do Republicans think that beating up people to the brink of death for faulty info and then preaching the values of Christianity is one and the same?
I’m pretty sure every country and language has a word or term for hypocrisy. Like I’m pretty sure Jesus just might have to rise again to rid us of the Republican Evangelicals.
For a bunch of people who swear they don’t want to go to hell, they sure seem to be getting closer to it each day!
January 16th, 2009 at 1:47 amAnd to Cornyn, I’d like to ask, “what if sucking big cocks was your only sign of leadership”, oh wait, nevermind.
January 16th, 2009 at 2:02 amI am so sick of this B.S. TICKING TIME BOMB SCENARIO!
January 16th, 2009 at 2:05 amThere are only two ways to know for certain there IS a ticking time bomb.
1. You were actually there when it was set, or
2. Your the one who set it.
DNFP, I think a better way to approach Cornyn along those lines is:
RTWL: “Sen. Cornyn, what if the only thing standing between you and deaths of tens of thousands of Americans was your willingness to suck a big terrorist cock?”
CORNYN: I think your hypothetical assumes a premise that I’m not willing to concede.
RTWL: I know you don’t like my hypothetical.
CORNYN: No, the hypothetical’s fine; the premise that underlies it I’m not willing to accept, and that is that sucking a big terrorist cock is the only way that I could get that information from those people.
RTWL: Assume that it was.
January 16th, 2009 at 3:13 amCornyn is a repuglican from Texas, enough said. Of course he’s absurd.
January 16th, 2009 at 3:53 amMathazar Says:
I am so sick of this B.S. TICKING TIME BOMB SCENARIO!
There are only two ways to know for certain there IS a ticking time bomb.
1. You were actually there when it was set, or
2. Your the one who set it.
Lets face it, the Republicans think Jack Bauer has kept us all safe from terrorist attacks since 9/11.
This is the same group that believes that some god has exclusive residence in the sky and keeps record of everything we do in our lives.
It’s also the same group that has its leading “news” figures spewing garbage that is so out there with UFO abduction tales and hyper-obsessive grassy knoll conspiracy theories, that if only the millions of people who take it as “serious news” would fact check, we’d improve the overall IQ percentage of this nation.
January 16th, 2009 at 3:54 amThis illustyrates how far to the Right our public discourse is.
If a Democratic administration had been caught using waterboarding, there would be no phoney debate about whether it was torture, whether it was legal, or whether it was effective.
January 16th, 2009 at 5:28 amWhat a beautiful sight – watching the latest in a never-ending string of Reich-wing nut jobs mimic the wicked witch of the west in her final scene yelling “we’re melting, we’re melting.” Isn’t it refreshing to know we’re once again going to have an AG with integrity. Lets see….The last one was there until January 20, 2001. Welcome back integrity.
January 16th, 2009 at 6:39 amone can only assume that people of cornyn’s ilk are congenital sadists.
January 16th, 2009 at 8:13 amCornyn: “Assume the only way you could get the information would be to step on a crack and break your mother’s back. Would you?”
Holder: “That’s not the only way to get information.”
Cornyn: “Assume it is. Heh heh.”
January 16th, 2009 at 9:28 amHere’s another interesting hypothetical.
Assume that letting Osama bin Laden walk free would reduce terrorist attacks all over the world in 50%. Would the Republicans accept such a deal in order to save hundreds of lives?
See, I can come up with more plausible scenarios than Cornyn can.
January 16th, 2009 at 10:00 amAnother hypothetical for Cornyn:
“What if you were stranded on a desert island with another man, and forced to have sex?
There is no other option.”
January 16th, 2009 at 11:18 amSilly Rethug fascist and thier silly notion that torture produces factual intell.
Fascists love torture. It is fun for them and it is part of the hate thang. Anything to justify revenge with these evil people.
1/3 of any human population is comprised of folks that have no compassion for thier fellow humans.
These same folks kept the Mid-evil period going for years on end.
These same folks support this war criminal administration.
Hague 2009!!!
January 16th, 2009 at 12:43 pmFolks, I think it is time for a new support group in our Capital. IRTCA (I Raped The Constitution Anonymous because CRA is already taken). They can gather all of these poor blowholes in a room and each one can stand up and state…Hi, my name is (fill in the blank). I’m a rapist. They told me it was ok, I had to do it and after the first time it just kept getting easier and easier. Now I can hardly afford to buy Cheetos and I can’t have sex without the water running. Please, I need help. Somebody stop me before I rape again.
January 16th, 2009 at 12:43 pmI know it has been beaten to death, but how about this one, the brother/mother/son/daughter/cousin…etc… of the person tortured is so appalled that their loved one was tortured creates a bigger, better, more destructive bomb….mmmm and doesn’t get caught.
You can come up with hypothetical after hypothetical to inflict more casualties than the hypothetical before, the point is this:
After all is said and done, you are left with the decision, “is this moral or not?” if not, you don’t do it. You can not make your decision based on a fantasy you can come up with to justify it.
January 16th, 2009 at 12:44 pmLet the Confederates have thier own country.
Nothing but evil below the Mason Dixon line anyway.
Bunch of fascist war-mongering racists.
January 16th, 2009 at 12:45 pmCornyn: Torture works!! I saw it on the teevee!!
January 16th, 2009 at 12:52 pmHypothetical for Cornyn
WHAT IF. The only way to get the terrorist to talk about his ticking time bomb is to rape his six year old daughter right in front of him then flay him with a fairly dull knife? Here is the knife. Are YOU ready to go for it? A
January 16th, 2009 at 3:16 pmSOMETHING IS VERY ODD. (or so you folks should be thinking…)
Why is it that the new President will have a classified section in the Army Field Manual that allows HIM ALONE to authorize “enhanced interrogation” methods, hmmmm?
Here, I’ll explain it for you:
Our new President is no fool, he’s a very smart guy. He realizes that he’s already won the election and now will act like a President, not a candidate that has to get elected. He understands that you NEVER take any option off the table when it comes to protecting the citizens of the country you are sworn to protect!
Therefore, all you fools on the left can give up your little crack pipe dreams of having President Bush or any member of his administration prosecuted for using the SAME techniques that the new President will reserve to himself!
I love it!
January 16th, 2009 at 9:51 pmTim Vaculik Says:
January 16th, 2009 at 11:18 pmSOMETHING IS VERY ODD.
————
And that would be you…
Tim Vaculik Says:
Give it up Timmeh. You are one of the stupidest people on the Planet. If its classified YOU dont know what it is either. You REALLY ignorant wingnuts keep trying to predict the future but you SUCK at it. You keep at it anyway only showing just how stupid you really are. You need to stop. You are giving morons a bad name.
January 17th, 2009 at 12:53 amI wonder if anyone posting hs eve read the “anti-torture” statutes. I read something interesting on the BigLizards blog which should be read by everyone decrying the administration for defying the law and torturing people:
“The United Nations General Assembly enacted a Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment in 1984;
The US accepted with a number of caveats, including the following:
“That with reference to article 1, the United States understands that, in order to constitute torture, an act must be specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering and that mental pain or suffering refers to prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from (1) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering; (2) the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, of mind altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or the personality; (3) the threat of imminent death; or (4) the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical pain or suffering, or the administration or application of mind altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or personality.’
Do any of the methods used by the CIA, or indeed by the interrogators at Guantanamo exceed the criteria listed above.
January 18th, 2009 at 5:26 pm