U.N. special rapporteur on torture calls on U.S. to prosecute Bush and Rumsfeld.
U.N. special rapporteur on torture calls on U.S. to prosecute Bush and Rumsfeld.
In remarks that aired on German television last night, Manfred Nowak, the United Nations Special Rapporteur on Torture, urged the U.S. to pursue former President George W. Bush and defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld on charges that they authorized torture and other harsh interrogation techniques:
“Judicially speaking, the United States has a clear obligation” to bring proceedings against Bush and Rumsfeld. [...] He noted Washington had ratified the UN convention on torture which required “all means, particularly penal law” to be used to bring proceedings against those violating it.
“We have all these documents that are now publicly available that prove that these methods of interrogation were intentionally ordered by Rumsfeld,” against detainees at the US prison facility in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, Nowak said.
Indeed, a bipartisan Senate report released last month found that Rumsfeld “bore major responsibility” for abuses committed at Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib and other military detention centers. Just last week, a Bush administration official overseeing Gitmo trials said Rumsfeld approved the torture of one particular detainee. Bush himself said last year that he was aware of his advisers’ discussions on torture and recently admitted that he personally authorized waterboarding Kalid Sheik Muhammad.
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Oh! Oh! here we go folks.
January 21st, 2009 at 1:25 pmGood call! But it will go nowhere, dammit.
January 21st, 2009 at 1:26 pmYes, but did they pay their taxes on time?
January 21st, 2009 at 1:26 pmI have a feeling that Obama’s going to approach this in a “politically blind” fashion. That is, instruct the DoJ to approach such claims solely on their legal merits rather than any kind of “payback” sense, and keep well away from the proceedings himself.
Of course that means that the neocons are screwed anyway…
January 21st, 2009 at 1:26 pmWho ya gonna believe a “rapporteur” or a “deciderer”?
/snark off
Can we have any credibility if we claim UN resolutions for expanding the war on terror into Iraq and yet dismiss the UN resolutions and prohibitions on torture? Now that Obama is officially President, I whole heartedly join the chorus in demanding full investigation and charges if appropriate for anyone, up to and including former President Bush, who engaged in and/or authorized torture in our name.
January 21st, 2009 at 1:26 pmIf we don’t prosecute, someone else will. No one is above the law.
January 21st, 2009 at 1:27 pmYes, Bob, if we don’t prosecute, someone else will because no one is above the law. It’s just that if we abandon that task to another entity, we reduce ourselves in the eyes of the world.
January 21st, 2009 at 1:28 pmLets go. Prosecution, Orange jumpsuits, then the Hague. Bush, Rummy, Darth Cheney, maybe a side order of Condalizzard Rice
January 21st, 2009 at 1:28 pmTo all wingnuts who are freaked out about this, rest assured that I am on your side: once I get the PayPal account set up, I will be accepting your donations to the Jack Bauer Legal Defense Fund.
January 21st, 2009 at 1:29 pmGood point PLC. I find your posts consistantly thoughtful and on point.
January 21st, 2009 at 1:30 pmIf the new administration in the WH is serious about ‘restoring’ America’s (North America) international reputation, it has to prossecute the Bush administration for WAR CRIMES. If Obama comes with that slogan of ‘moving foward’, he will own Bush’s War Crimes and the USA will not be trusted ever again! At this stage, everyone is expecting them (Bush & Co.) to be held accountable for their War Crimes.
January 21st, 2009 at 1:31 pm“Judicially speaking, the United States has a clear obligation” to bring proceedings against Bush and Rumsfeld.”
That’s all we’re saying…
January 21st, 2009 at 1:32 pmI suspect the calls to end BushCo’s comfy retirement will increase as the economy recovers, since the economy is the number one issue. Our recession is Bush’s vacation.
January 21st, 2009 at 1:33 pmYes! DO IT!
NUREMBERG II 2009
January 21st, 2009 at 1:34 pmI absolutely agree that there should be prosecutions for authorizing torture and the rest of the violations of the Geneva Conventions against both Bush and Rumsfeld. But they weren’t the only ones involved. Cheney is just as or more responsible for these crimes. And the legal counsel who wrote memos justifying their actions are certainly as culpable. Top on that list would be John Yoo, Jay Bybee, Steven Bradbury. Also included would be David Addington, Cheney’s legal guy who later became his chief of staff. William Haynes, former DOD General Counsel. Alberto Gonzales. There are many more top level people who knowingly conspired and participated in these crimes.
January 21st, 2009 at 1:39 pmNo one is above the law.
If Obama authorized torture, do you think the Cons would hesitate to prosecute him?
January 21st, 2009 at 1:39 pmZooey Says:
No one is above the law.
If Obama authorized torture, do you think the Cons would hesitate to prosecute him?
#####
If Obama even thought of doing half the sh!t Bush did, the right-wing would tar and feather him.
January 21st, 2009 at 1:42 pmthere will never be any accountability for the torture program developed and implemented by bush/cheney.
unless bill clinton is also added to the docket.
January 21st, 2009 at 1:43 pmthe United States has a clear obligation” to bring proceedings against Bush and Rumsfeld
A truth that needs the world to know and see to it being carried out.
Hey, Obama, I’m pretty sure that someone in your staff has brought this to your attention….time to take charge.
January 21st, 2009 at 1:47 pmI only hope that the next republican candidate for president runs on the campaign of protecting us from the Islamo-fascists. I keep seeing all of these right-wing websites that continue to cheer Bush and all his accomplishments. If this keeps up, we’ve got it made.
January 21st, 2009 at 1:52 pmYes! Yes! YES! NOW I’m enthusiastic and hopeful. International pressure AND political pressure from us – The People – needs to get SO LOUD that President Obama won’t be able to ignore it!
LET THE WAR CRIMES TRIALS BEGIN …..
January 21st, 2009 at 1:52 pmYou hope and bullshit to “clinton did it”
January 21st, 2009 at 1:54 pm“U.N. special rapporteur on torture calls on U.S. to prosecute Bush and Rumsfeld.”
That’s funny, George Bush was pushing for prosecutions years ago! Where have you been U.N.?
“I call on all governments to join with the United States and the community of law-abiding nations in prohibiting, investigating, and prosecuting all acts of torture … and we are leading this fight by example.”
January 21st, 2009 at 1:54 pm-George W. Bush Quoted in “The Dark Art of Interrogation,” The Atlantic Monthly, October 2003
It aint a’gonna happen, friends…
gerbils will get the vote sooner than any former official will face prosecution for ‘protecting the country.’
January 21st, 2009 at 1:59 pmI would personally settle for in absentia guilty verdicts from the ICC. From that time forward any of the particulars could simply be referred to as “The Convicted International War Criminal __________”. Has rather a nice ring to it.
January 21st, 2009 at 2:03 pmMake of it what you will…
January 21st, 2009 at 2:04 pmEugeneDebs Says:
Good point PLC. I find your posts consistantly thoughtful and on point.
Consistently?? I’ll have to work on that as I’m shooting for a 50-50 split of “thoughtful and on point” with “snarky and irreverent”.
Seriously, though, thank you. This site and those who post educate me, provoke and encourage me to think, and provides me some needed levity. So, I thank you and others (even trolls).
January 21st, 2009 at 2:08 pmIf george bush does it, it is most likely illegal.
January 21st, 2009 at 2:16 pmWell Bush wants to live behind bars (his gated community). Maybe he’ll have his chance (his prison cell).
January 21st, 2009 at 2:17 pmAs does every American capable of individual thought as well as most of the world community.
January 21st, 2009 at 2:18 pmAs Jonathan Turley (a brilliant guy BTW) said one night on Rachel Maddow’s show, it isn’t going to be good for this country if the international community brings these criminals to justice and we don’t. I think we need to take out our own garbage before we will be able to join the international community once again and hold our heads high.
January 21st, 2009 at 2:20 pmsacopenapa Says:
At this stage, everyone is expecting them (Bush & Co.) to be held accountable for their War Crimes.
No, no, my friend: NOT “everyone” There WERE no war crimes–
at least, that’s what the repugs and BushCo keep insisting.
Only those of us who are NOT “patriotic,” who despised “the decider,” who think that our war in the middle east is immoral, who do NOT [with Squush] “hope that Obama fails”–THESE are the those who expect BushCo to be held accountable for war crimes.
January 21st, 2009 at 2:23 pmtokin librul Says:
It aint a’gonna happen, friends…
gerbils will get the vote sooner than any former official will face prosecution for ‘protecting the country.’
I think you are wrong. As more and more whistle blowers come out, now that Bush can’t fire them or order them killed, I think that the hue and cry will become such that we will have no choice but to prosecute them.
January 21st, 2009 at 2:25 pmjim in austin Says:
I would personally settle for in absentia guilty verdicts from the ICC. From that time forward any of the particulars could simply be referred to as “The Convicted International War Criminal __________”. Has rather a nice ring to it.
An appealing and tidy solution; repugs would find it hard to keep THAT little label out of history textbooks! And Shrub could be certain that history WOULD, indeed, change its perceptions and evaluations of him. . .
January 21st, 2009 at 2:26 pmFred Says:
You hope and bullshit to “clinton did it”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I am not sure she meant he SHOULD be added to the dock. If she did she is delusional. Perhaps she meant it will be opposed with scorched Earth tactics by the right unless Clinton is added to the dock in which case the rights visceral hatred of Clinton might get them on boad. Either way it is a loser since there isnt the slightest evidence of Clinton being engaged in torture. While he DID do renditions it is my understanding he made it clear that the countries he sent them to better NOT abuse them. Its still morally murky but what it doesnt seem to be is torture.
January 21st, 2009 at 2:27 pmtokin librul Says:
Former president Bill Clinton has told NBC’s…..
I think they key words here are “former president”. And he does not speak for the current president.
Lately I’ve been getting the feeling that in addition to right wingers like Limbaugh, there are some posters here who want Obama to fail too.
January 21st, 2009 at 2:27 pmPatrioticLiberalChristian Says:
Hey it takes serious thoughtfulness to do GOOD snark.
January 21st, 2009 at 2:30 pmEugeneDebs Says:
Maybe, but when they bring up Clinton, it’s usually with an agenda…..let linda clear up her statement.
January 21st, 2009 at 2:31 pmtokin librul Says:
Make of it what you will…
January 21st, 2009 at 2:04 pm
___________
I make of it that former President Bill Clinton watches too much TV. And talks way too much.
Talking about hypothetical torture ia hypothetical scenario on a TV pundit show is a far cry from writing memo after memo providing a legal basis to excuse torture already being practiced in secret prisons.
This is not about world opinion or restoring our place on the world stage or anything of the sort, though those are all positive externalities. As a signatory to the UN Convention on Torture, our government is REQUIRED, under international treaty and thus U.S. code, to prosecute those who used torture, ordered people to use torture, and enabled its use on detainees.
If the Obama administration refuses to comply with its obligations under the law, it is complicit in the illegal actions of the Bush administration.
January 21st, 2009 at 2:37 pmThey just said on MSNBC that the right wing nuts are calling for Obama’s impeachment because he flubbed the words to his oath of office and is too incompetent to serve.
January 21st, 2009 at 2:42 pmIt is just this kind of leaning to the right that hurt Hillary’s campaign.
January 21st, 2009 at 2:45 pmShayne Says:
They just said on MSNBC that the right wing nuts are calling for Obama’s impeachment because he flubbed the words to his oath of office and is too incompetent to serve.
January 21st, 2009 at 2:42 pm
_____________
I don’t know about you, but I find the fact that this is the only talking point the right-wing trolls have left rather gratifying.
January 21st, 2009 at 2:48 pmAnd TH I think Obama should take note of how little support he will ever get from the right no matter how he tries to cross the aisle when he is deciding what to do about these crimes. There is no way to unite with some of these crazies.
January 21st, 2009 at 2:50 pmAlso, UN sanctions would be counterproductive to any economic recovery plans.
January 21st, 2009 at 2:50 pmIt is embarrassing enough that we let this man hold office for 8 years. How will it look if we let him get away with what turns out to be considered criminal by the rest of the world.
January 21st, 2009 at 2:51 pmWe turned a blind eye with Nixon, Reagan and Bush Sr… and look where we are now. If our present mess is also allowed to go unchecked, what will we be looking at next? Could our country survive anything worse than what we have now… and you know it would be.
January 21st, 2009 at 2:51 pmFor inventing and pushing the idea of “Islamofascism,” the Bush Administration should also be prosecuted for preaching hatred of an entire religion.
We need to crack down on Zionist hate merchants.
January 21st, 2009 at 2:56 pmBush himself said last year that he was aware of his advisers’ discussions on torture and recently admitted that he personally authorized waterboarding Kalid Sheik Muhammad.
‘Scuse me while I nitpick…
Mr. Armbruster – could you please fix this? It should be Khalid Sheikh Muhammad. The letters K and KH are not interchangeable…
January 21st, 2009 at 2:56 pmShayne Says:
They just said on MSNBC that the right wing nuts are calling for Obama’s impeachment because he flubbed the words to his oath of office and is too incompetent to serve.
We and the world witnessed Roberts screwing up the oath. But hey, if such an idiot statement is considered by the neocons maybe they should be looking at a Roberts impeachment.
January 21st, 2009 at 2:59 pmI really wonder if we aren’t heading into a scenario where if the USA doesn’t investigate these abuses, then the world community will have to step in and do it.
Of course, if we investigate, there is an inherrent bias to the investigation. So the world community doing it may not be a bad thing.
January 21st, 2009 at 3:00 pmThree men hanging from a Sycamore.
Get on with it.
January 21st, 2009 at 3:02 pmShayne Says:
They just said on MSNBC that the right wing nuts are calling for Obama’s impeachment because he flubbed the words to his oath of office and is too incompetent to serve.
Do these right wingers know how stupid they sound? It’s almost like the Republicans are intentionally trying to invalidate themselves.
January 21st, 2009 at 3:06 pmShayne,
January 21st, 2009 at 3:10 pmThat ship has sailed. Just like 75% of Americans, the vast majority of human beings on the Earth already consider the bush/cheney administration murderous and criminal. Many compare them with Milosevich, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Kim Jong and Pinochet, to mention a few.
We can only hope that this will happen.
January 21st, 2009 at 3:42 pmI had a debate with a right-wing friend the other day. Basically it boils down to if the UN does something they like (resolutions against Iraq) then the UN is great and wonderful. If the UN does something they don’t like (resolutions against Israel) then the UN is just a leftist, communist organization of criminals anyway.
January 21st, 2009 at 4:00 pmNo joke little guy, we just took back the country from the traiterous bastards. It was all over the news yesterday, sorry you missed it.
Pull your head out and look around every now and then.
January 21st, 2009 at 4:09 pmsays the guy who thinks no one reads the NY Times…
January 21st, 2009 at 5:44 pmsays the guy who thinks no one reads the NY Times…
January 21st, 2009 at 5:44 pmWho gives a crap what some dork at the UN thinks.
—-
January 21st, 2009 at 5:44 pmBolton is still there?
Let’s go!!!
January 21st, 2009 at 5:57 pmglezzery Says:
I didn’t see anything in the Senate report saying we tortured anyone.
Aggressive interrogation techniques which, of course, are abusive.
Torture is the use of any aggressive or abusive interrogation technique. In fact, the word “abuse” itself means that you’re doing something wrong. Thanks for making that one so easy.
.
glezzery Says:
Humiliation, sleep deprivation, loud music do not amount to torture.
Yes, they do. In fact, until the Bush administration started doing these things, everybody knew they were torture. I remember when people found out that the Soviet KGB had been studying the effects of those, as well as sensory deprivation and stress positions. We were outraged. Outraged, I tell you.
I thought you people were supposed to have moral standards. Bush could tell you tomorrow to kill your children and you’d act like it was always OK to kill your children. It’s disgusting how cheaply you sell your souls.
.
glezzery Says:
I wish folks would consider these folks are not pick pockets, soldiers but terrorists who want YOU dead and they will use any means they can to do it, including nerve gas, biological weapons, and nukes.
Prove that the people being tortured are terrorists. You’d have to take them to court to do that.
.
glezzery Says:
Who gives a crap what some dork at the UN thinks.
We do. Ratification of the Geneva Conventions makes them part of U.S. law.
January 21st, 2009 at 11:12 pmThe entire cabal of murderers needs to be in front of the ICC for what they did to the country of Iraq. That includes Colin Powell, who sat there in the UN on Feb 5, 2003, and lied his a** off so that the neocons could get their hard-on for Iraq.
January 21st, 2009 at 11:47 pmThe U.N. should put out a call for some real men. Ban-Ki Moon blubbering about wanting to stop the fighting in Gaza. DO something about it you sniveleing, whining waste of American tax dollars. Talk, talk, talk, that’s all these U.N. losers know how to do. You want to investigate Bush, be my guest Manfred. But you are going to have to man up and go get him yourself. We’re not helping you bunch of cowards.
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:26 pmglezzery, you already are FOR killing children and protecting bad guys. Social conservatives are FOR killing bad guys and protecting the unborn. I guess we’ll just have to keep disagreeing.
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:28 pmI meant ElBruce, not glezzery.
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:30 pmIf I am not mistaken, the UN council can bring charges against whomever for torture, war crimes and humanitarian issues, without the US doing anything.
January 22nd, 2009 at 2:27 pmIn reference to the comment made by linda about adding
January 22nd, 2009 at 8:24 pmClinton to the list. Which Clinton and why? Do you have anything to support this? Your comment makes zero sense…
Here is the German TV report, in which UN Special Rapporteur speaks out on the US torture policy.
This version has optional english subtitles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQXGH-OFPWE
Americans should see this too.
January 23rd, 2009 at 10:29 amI mean, in America, we apparently impeach presidents for having consensual sex outside of marriage and trying to cover it up.
If we impeach presidents for that, then if the president takes the country to war on a lie where thousands of American soldiers die horrible, violent deaths and over 100,000 innocent Iraqi civilians, including women and children, even babies are killed, the punishment obviously has to be much, much more severe.
That’s just common sense.
If Bush were impeached, convicted in the Senate, and removed from office, he’d still be a free man, still be able to wake up in the morning with his cup of coffee and freshly squeezed orange juice and read the morning paper, still travel widely and lead a life of privilege, still belong to his country club and get standing ovations whenever he chose to speak to the Republican faithful.
This, for being responsible for over 100,000 horrible deaths?
* For anyone interested in true justice, impeachment alone would be a joke for what Bush did.
Let’s look at the way some of the leading liberal lights (and, of course, the rest of the entire nation with the exception of those few recommending impeachment) have treated the issue of punishment for Bush’s cardinal sins.
New York Times columnist Paul Krugman wrote about “the false selling of the Iraq War.
We were railroaded into an unnecessary war.” Fine, I agree. Now what? Krugman just goes on to the next paragraph.
But if Bush falsely railroaded the nation into a war where over 100,000 people died, including 4,000 American soldiers, how can you go on to the next paragraph as if you had been writing that Bush spent the weekend at Camp David with his wife?
For doing what Krugman believes Bush did, doesn’t Bush have to be punished commensurately in some way? Are there no consequences for committing a crime of colossal proportions?
Vincent Bugliosi
March 13th, 2009 at 9:03 pm