Is Obama going to allow interrogation techniques outside the Army Field Manual?
By on Jan 22nd, 2009 at 9:30 am
Is Obama going to allow interrogation techniques outside the Army Field Manual?
Today, President Obama will issue an executive order banning torture by requiring that the Army Field Manual be used as the guide for interrogations. But the New York Times reports that in a briefing with lawmakers yesterday, White House Counsel Greg Craig hinted at a willingness to allow some “other” interrogation tactics:
A Congressional official who attended the session said Mr. Craig acknowledged concerns from intelligence officials that new restrictions on C.I.A. methods might be unwise and indicated that the White House might be open to allowing the use of methods other the 19 techniques allowed for the military.
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One of the more heinous techniques will be to force the subject to listen to Rush Limbaugh 24/7.
January 22nd, 2009 at 9:34 amLoopholes will inevitably lead to abuses–every situation will become “special.”
January 22nd, 2009 at 9:34 amA Congressional official who attended the session said Mr. Craig acknowledged concerns from intelligence officials that new restrictions on C.I.A. methods might be unwise and indicated that the White House might be open to allowing the use of methods other the 19 techniques allowed for the military.
There is nothing “unwise” about wanting to follow the law. Any CIA personnel who feel they should be allowed to use torture can hand in their resignations right now. We don’t want them on our payroll.
January 22nd, 2009 at 9:36 amrddaos Says:
We know that torture is the best way to get information out of an stubborn person. However, perhaps cookies and milk will achieve the same result. But I doubt it.
January 22nd, 2009 at 9:37 am
“24″ is a fictional show, and Jack Bauer is a fictional character. It’s bad enough a Republican US Senator tried to defend torture by saying it works on the TV machine. Are you trying to prove you’re as smart as a Republican US Senator?
January 22nd, 2009 at 9:47 amInterrogation experts have repeatedly said that information gathered from developing a relationship with a detainee is more reliable.
January 22nd, 2009 at 9:51 amSo what’s wrong with following the law?
Obama needs to pull the plug on all “enhanced techniques” and go strictly by the book. Don’t friggin’ start capitulating to the jackbooted Republicans on the first goddamn day….
January 22nd, 2009 at 9:55 amrddaos Says: “Again, if a person can resist it, and refuse to cooperate, it’s not torture, by definition.”
Please provide a source for this definition, other than your own deluded and psychotic paradigm….
January 22nd, 2009 at 9:58 amI’m not holding my breath, you’ve got all day.
rddiot says:
Again, if a person can resist it, and refuse to cooperate, it’s not torture, by definition.
this may go down as THE DUMBEST POST in the history of TP.
So, by rddiot’s “definition”, McCain wasn’t tortured, nor the hundreds of thousands upon thousands of American soldiers that served in the Pacific during WWII, and Korea, and Vietnam.
mucking foron!
January 22nd, 2009 at 9:58 amrddaos Says:
We know that torture is the best way to get information out of an stubborn person.
not torture, by definition
Prove it. Provide that definition.
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:00 amrddaos Says:
I don’t need a government employee’s blessing to know that torture can be used to force people to give up information they normally wouldn’t. Again, if a person can resist it, and refuse to cooperate, it’s not torture, by definition.
And if the person can’t take it and they die, it’s murder, by definition.
And why are you so convinced that he information you would get through torture would be realiable? You don’t. I am willing to bet that if you were kidnapped, brought to a secret facility, waterboarded and told to confess to being involved in 9/11, you would do it if you thought the torture would stop. Were you involved in the attacks of 9/11? I doubt it now, but what would we think if you signed a confession saying you were?
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:01 amHey, rddiot! I’m about to take a hot burning coal and with slow, agonizing pressure, insert it into your right eye.
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:03 amBetcha you’ll confess to oral sex with domesticated farm animals!
Betcha you’ll confess to years of anything you actually didn’t do.
Betcha!
Torture, according to the United Nations Convention Against Torture, is:
“ any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him, or a third person, information or a confession
Having a purpose does not necessarily mean being successful. McCain’s campaign had the purpose of getting him elected as President. It was a campaign whether or not he won. Torture is torture, whether or not it obtains information.
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:03 amrddaos Says:
FACT, torture = use pain to coerce someone to do something against their will. Deal with it.
January 22nd, 2009 at 9:59 am
No, torture = an attempt to use pain to coerce someone to do something against their will. Deal with that. By your definition, spanking a child who refuses to behave would constitute torture. Do you endorse torturing children?
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:03 amrddaos Says:
We know that torture is the best way to get information out of an stubborn person.
It is also illegal and immoral, but when did you neocon freaks ever care about the law anyway, right?
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:03 amrddiot,
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:09 amplease provide links to where torture actually works.
Dr. Hussein Matt Says:
You’re mocking people with facts and reality. Nice.
All while flaunting his Stupid.
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:10 amDRxJ Says:
rddiot,
please provide links to where torture actually works.
rrdaos, yes, please provide some evidence that your cruel, heartless, inhumane methods of getting information work. KSM did not give up any useful information while he was being tortured (which was a war crime). He only gave up useful information after they started treating him humanely.
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:11 amI don’t get it. Is he issuing an executive order restricting interrogation techniques to the field manual, or is he not? It’s a simple yes or no. I think the reporting on this is somewhat confused.
.
rddaos Says:
We know that torture is the best way to get information out of an stubborn person.
…
By “best” I mean quickest, most effective, most efficient way.
Actually, we know the opposite. Everyone who is in a position to actually know the answer to this question claims torture doesn’t work.
Unless you already know exactly what you want them to say. You can make them say or do anything quickly and effectively, but you cannot extract information that you didn’t already with any confidence that the information is correct.
.
rddaos Says:
I don’t need a government employee’s blessing to know that torture can be used to force people to give up information they normally wouldn’t.
Do you torture people? Are you an ameteur expert torturer?
.
rddaos Says:
Again, if a person can resist it, and refuse to cooperate, it’s not torture, by definition.
That is not the definition of torture, imbecile.
.
rddaos Says:
But please, do keep believing free milk and cookies is the fastest way to bin laden’s heart.
You’re the only one who keeps saying “milk and cookies.” Nobody else has ever said that. That’s not what anybody is arguing.
.
rddaos Says:
If giving the interrogator consistent, verifiable information is the only way to make the torture stop, the torture subject will do just that.
The interrogator has no way of knowing whether the information is consistent and verifiable. The best way to make the torture stop is to give them the most plausible information, or the information which confirms the interrogator’s existing biases.
Let’s say you’re torturing some dude (whee!) and he keeps telling you he’s a cab driver and doesn’t know anything about terrorism. Of course, that’s just what a terrorist would say, so you keep going. Except that he really is a cab driver and doesn’t know anything about terrorism. To get you to stop, he’ll have to say he’s a terrorist, and possible make up some imaginary plot.
Sure, you’ll probably come back and torture him later after you found out the plot was imaginary, but the fact remains that was still the only way to get you to stop.
The thing you keep failing to take into account (along with reality and human decency) is that the interrogator continues torturing the victim until they recieve a certain answer. In order to know when to stop, they have to already know what answers they are willing to believe. Therefore, the “information” that torture “provides” is already known to the interrogator at the outset. Therefore, torture provides no information.
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:12 amrddaos Says:
“please provide links to the AMA-approved clinical study where one group was savagely tortured, another given milk and cookies, and a third control group given nothing, which proved that torture was effective” llool
No one here is putting forth that theory, only you are. We call that a “false argument”. You are claiming we are saying something we are not, then striking it down as ridiculous, even though you are the only one saying it.
You’re the one claiming torture (which is illegal under international law) works. Prove it, or quit saying it.
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:16 amAlright rddaos, I’ll bite. If torturing gives us such reliable intel then exactly why has the top military advisor to detainee trials blocked prosecutions of tortured suspects? The evidence gleened through torture is inadmissible and has “tainted everything going forward” in her words. Oh well, so much for trials. Or, if you like we can forget about prosecutions and talk about preventing attacks. If there was even ONE case of intel gleened from torture that led to the prevention of an impending attack on the US the Bush Administration would be screaming it from the rooftops. Face it neoturd, no matter how hard you get thinking about torturing brown people it doesn’t change the facts that it is not reliable, it is illegal, it is immoral, it places our soldiers in more peril, it has been a wonderful recruitment tool for our enemies and it was conceived and sanctioned by George Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Alberto Gonzales, John Ashcroft, Condoleeza Rice, David Addington, John Woo (I’m sure I’m forgetting someone but the new Justice Dept will surely flesh out and complete the list of war criminals).
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:18 amrddaos Says:
Wayne,
It may be “immoral” or “illegal”, depending on the context.
No, nutbag, it is illegal and immoral, period. It is illegal in US Law and International law. There is a long history of prosecuting those who torture in US history. Even our own soldiers when they did it, as long ago as the Philippine war in the 1800s.
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:18 amOpen a book not written by coulterguiest sometime, moron.
rddaos Says:
Erroding democracy and getting a stubborn suspect to talk are 2 different things. Get off the coolaide
That’s just plain stupid, and completely illogical. And unless you are afraid of committing copyright infringement, at least learn to spell Kool-Aid correctly. It makes you look like an acerebralist.
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:18 amThank you for this statement. The atrocities in Africa pale in comparison to anything happening in the Middle East.
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:18 amPost 51 was addressed to all, and Kongo Kong…
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:20 amrddaos (rat) can say the moon is made of cheese. Doesn’t make it true.
And so far, the only expert generated facts that have been presented are by the torture-deniers. rddaos just keeps repeating his nonsense.
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:20 amrddaos Says:
It may be “immoral” or “illegal”, depending on the context. That wasn’t the question. We had some flat-earthers in here claiming people enduring extreme torture would just refuse to give up the goods lol.
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:06 am
__________
First of all, let’s clear up some confusion – we’re progressives. Not conservatives. The “flat earthers” and “moon-landing deniers” are with the anti-evolution, climate-change skeptic science deniers on your side of the aisle.
Secondly, people enduring extreme torture don’t give up “goods.” They give up whatever they think the torturer wants to hear. They make up information that sends intelligence experts and criminal investigators on wild goose chases instead of uncovering actual terrorist plots.
Your “cookies and milk” suggestion is much more useful, as a matter of fact. According to Matthew Alexander, the investigator who found Abu Musab az-Zarqawi, useful information comes not from torture, but from cultural understanding, subtle trickery, and brainpower:
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:22 am
Kongo Kong Says:
There is real torture in the Congo. Why isn’t this discussed?
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:16 am
___________
I care about the Democratic Republic of Congo and the torture that’s going on there at the behest of US and European mining interests. Let’s discuss it.
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:23 amHere’s something to chew on: which would you rather have – less information that’s more reliable, or more information that’s less reliable?
.
rddaos Says:
No. What I said was that this silly story about giving names of cleveland brown players to his torturers is total b.s.
Well, it alternates depending on where he’s campaigning. He’s also said it was the Steelers, sometimes the Packers.
.
rddaos Says:
Number one, there’s no point in torturing someone to get information that you cannot independently verify. So asking for “names” is doubtful.
Asking for the other members of a detainee’s unit has always been standard interrogation practice in times of extended war. That’s just historical fact, not “doubtful.” Now, it might take weeks, months or even years to verify that information independently. You have to wait to capture some more people maybe. If you do get a match, then you get a picture of what the enemy’s units are like and what their organizational structure is. Torture has often been used to get information that may become verified and useful at some future date.
Again, the victim’s incentive is to say whatever will make the torturer stop in the short term. They have no control over whether the interrogator will resume torture in the long term, even if they do give only accurate information. That’s because someone who will torture you can’t be trusted. If they say they’ll stop if the information proves to be accurate, there’s no reason to believe that they really will.
In fact, if you give accurate information when tortured, then the interrogator will most likely torture you some more, in the hopes of getting more accurate information. So basically, you’re screwed either way.
.
rddaos Says:
Number two, assuming they DID ask for names, they wouldn’t just accept a list of names at face value. They’d have forced mccain to go into extreme detail about these so-called people. And when he couldn’t keep his story straight, he’d have been tortured savagely and been forced to roll over.
Why would you think he had extreme levels of detail about the other members in his unit? Hypothetical: John McCain was recently transferred to his current unit before being shot down. He’s given you all the correct names, but you want to do your “consistent details” thing. If he says he doesn’t really know them that well, you will continue to torture him until he gives you consistent details. Therefore in order to get you to stop, he has to give you a false story.
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:26 amKongo Kong Says:
there’s real torture being done in the Congo. Do any of you care or is it only Muslims being tortured you care about?
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:13 am
___________
I care about Muslims, Christians, Jews, Animists, and Atheists being torture. Your “point” is now moot. Now, do you have anything substantive to say on the subject of torture and atrocities connected with the DRC/Rwanda coltan wars?
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:27 amrddaos Says:
CIA (political bureaucrat) can say the earth is flat. Doesn’t make it true.
Everyone else has provided expert opinions, reasons, and logical argumentation for the thesis that torture is ineffective. You just keep saying “it works” over and over again. So which of us is more similar to the flat-Earthers?
And yes, they do still exist. They also all vote Republican, BTW.
.
rddaos Says:
Erroding democracy and getting a stubborn suspect to talk are 2 different things.
I bet I could torture you to make you vote for Nader.
.
Kongo Kong Says:
There is real torture in the Congo. Why isn’t this discussed?
Well, right now I’m mainly concerned with the torture that’s being authorized by my own elected officials and done in the name of my country.
But the real fact is I don’t really know much about it. Got some links?
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:35 amrddaos Says:
“please provide links to the AMA-approved clinical study where one group was savagely tortured, another given milk and cookies, and a third control group given nothing, which proved that torture was effective” llool
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:13 am
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB122/#kubark
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:36 am
Who cares about this. I aint Muslim so this dont effect me.
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:45 amrddaos Says:
The question was not is there currently an imminent plot to attack america and do we have the right people involved in the plot being tortured to get information that is verifiable. The question was that IF we had the right people in custody, who had the information, and it was information that was verifiable – could we torture them to get it. The answer is yes. Deal with it.
Well of course it’s a hypothetical. That’s what makes it even more stupid.
How do we know we’ve got the right person in custody, unless we already know all the answers? How do we know they have the information unless we already know what the information is? How will we know when to stop torturing them?
If it’s a “ticking time bomb” scenario, all they have to do is give us information that would take longer to verify than the set time for the bomb, and then when the bomb goes off, whether or not we torture them any more will be a moot point.
What if the only way to stop the attack was to kill a baby? Would you kill that baby? Would you go on message boards and type in “killing babies works. deal with it. lool.”
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:45 amrddaos Says:
The question was that IF we had the right people in custody, who had the information, and it was information that was verifiable – could we torture them to get it. The answer is yes. Deal with it.
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:37 am
__________
No, the answer is no. Under the UN Convention on Torture – an international treaty and thus binding United States law – we can not torture.
Your argument is built on ludicrously false premises. There’s no way to know whether or not we have the “right person in custody” unless we obtain information from them. Since torture does not provide reliable or useful information, we would be unable to verify – using torture – whether or not this person even IS the “right person”. And even if they did turn out to be the “right person,” any information they had about an “imminent plot” would become null and void the moment they were captured, as the al-Qa’ida cell would either abort or alter the plans knowing that one of their cell members was in custody.
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:46 amhussein toasterhead ,
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:47 amWho cares!
Frodo Hobbit Says:
Who cares about this. I aint Muslim so this dont effect me.
That refrain sounds awfully familiar… Isn’t that what the pre-WWII Germans said about the Jews?
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:47 amHere’s how the “ticking bomb” scenario would actually play out:
The “informant” is asked for the information and he refuses. The interrogation techniques become harsher and he continues to refuse. The interrogation turns into torture and the informant eventually provides the information the interrogators expect. Only if that information fits the expectation would the torture stop and the end of the aversive stimuli would negatively reinforce providing the same type of information in the future. Then the interrogators would verify the information. And if the information is not accurate, time is wasted and the “ticking bomb” explodes in its true location.
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:49 amThank you ElBruce and hussein toasterhead. I was about to respond to the troll, but you two said all that was needed. This idiot’s defense of torture is probably very close to what the Bush Administration will try when they are inevitably brought up on charges. The defence is laughable in it’s sheer lack of legal standing. “Well yes we tortured…but it worked!” First off, it didn’t work. Secondly nothing changes the fact that it was illegal.
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:57 am“Milk and cookies”…
“Deal with it”….
I’ll bet good money rddoes is a balding, rotund, patsy-faced, middle-aged white male who hasn’t seen the tops of his own shoes in YEARS and is afraid of his own shadow, but gets a cheap thrill outta talk tough on the Intertubes.
Hey, rddoes… GET OVER IT. “24″ and Jack Bauer are FICTIONAL, just like your tough guy persona.
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:02 amrddaos,
You rationales for wanting to inflict torture on a suspected terrorist are getting more and more absurd. What it all comes down to is that you want to hurt someone, and you think you should have the legal right to do it. That’s sick, dude. And useless, too.
Personal question, but are you learning-impaired? It might explain your “position”.
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:02 amrddaos Says: I simply said torture works, and I would do it if it were up to me.
The only truth so far from this troll. It SAID, but never proved, that torture works. It WANTS to torture.
Dealt with.
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:06 amrddaos Says:
And since torturing will cause him to give up any verifiable information he knows, it could be used to make him inform on whereabouts of his buddies, or tell u where you can find weapons, etc. Deal with it.
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:54 am
__________
We are dealing with it. We’re going to make sure that all U.S. officials who participated in the torture of detainees are arrested, tried, and executed, as specified under U.S. law.
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:10 amHas anyone besides me noticed that the current crop of trolls here are particularly stupid? Did all the half-way intelligent trolls throw in the towel?
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:13 amrddaos Says:
Terrorism works. Whether you “like” it or not. Deal with it.
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:00 am
________
When did you start supporting terrorism, rddaos?
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:14 amrddaos Says:
Oh yeah, you flat-earther moon landing-deniers, repetition doesn’t make you right either.
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:11 am
Yes, you are right. Yoru repetition, without supporting dosumentation, doesn’t make you right. Many here have proven our side of the argument. You have proven nothing but that you do not know how to engage in intellectual debate. Come back when you have proof that torture works.
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:15 amrddaos Says:
I didn’t say the government SHOULD torture. I simply said torture works, and I would do it if it were up to me. Torture works. Terrorism works. Whether you “like” it or not. Deal with it.
So genius, would you care to provide proof that torture works. And you can’t use Ex-President Bush saying it does, because nothing he says is proof. Experts all say that torture DOES NOT work. Someone who was tortured (John McCain) says that torture DOES NOT work. So, where’s your proof that it does?
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:15 amrddaos Says:
There will be no bush-admin members prosecuted for torture. Deal with it.
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:13 am
What makes you so certain? Did President Obama appoint you to a position in his new administration?
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:17 amJust for the record, saying that you might consider a technique that is not one of the 19 in the field manual DOES NOT mean that Obama will condone torture. It just means he will consider another method if it is brought to him. If he thinks the method brought to him could be considered torture, he will say “no”.
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:18 amhussein toasterhead Says:
We are dealing with it. We’re going to make sure that all U.S. officials who participated in the torture of detainees are arrested, tried, and executed, as specified under U.S. law.
I can feel your justified frustration “dealing with” rddaos, but you are going a bit far on this one. No one is going to be executed for certain, and I would actually be surprised if anyone is arrested when all is said and done.
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:20 amrddaos lives in a world of “maybes” and “what ifs”. To someone this detached from reality the simple clarity of this situation is lost. Our law deals in certainties. Did the Bush Administration break the law when it authorized the torture of detainees? Yes. Were these crimes commited against Federal laws? Yes. International Laws? Yes.
The Bush Administration tortured detainees in OUR name! Unless We the People do something the blood and guilt are on our hands. The world needs to be shown that America abides by ALL of the treaties it has signed. Bush clearly stated many times that “we don’t torture”. He lied to the American citizens and the entire world while representing us. He will pay for his crimes whether it is in an American court or a War Crimes Tribunal. Personally, I’m of the opinion that we should clean up our own mess. This means prosecuting the entire Administration from Bush right on down to the soldier who willingly performed the torture, although I would be more than willing to go lenient on the subordinates that assist in the prosecutions of the bosses.
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:22 amrddaos Says:
And since torturing will cause him to give up any verifiable information he knows, it could be used to make him inform on whereabouts of his buddies, or tell u where you can find weapons, etc. Deal with it.
You’re not actually backing that up your assertion that “torture works,” you’re using it as a premise. We’re still waiting for some evidence or reasoning.
.
rddaos Says:
Torture works. Terrorism works. Whether you “like” it or not. Deal with it.
Well, terrorism clearly seems to have worked on you.
Do you honestly believe that just saying something over and over again, and adding phrases “deal with it,” “whether you like it or not,” or “lmao” is convincing to anybody at all?
We’re not arguing against torture because we don’t like it. In fact, in my arguments above, you may note that I have completely set aside all moral issues involved. The fact that only the foulest examples of humanity have ever supported or engaged in it is competely irrelevant to the fact that it simply fails to provide accurate intelligence. That fact has been amply supported here by myself and others with logical argumentation, expert citations, examples, and sound reasoning.
Against this, all you have to say is “torture works” over and over and over again.
The problem isn’t that you’re an evil, sick freak – well, that is a problem, but we’re not dealing with that right now. The problem is that you are so utterly stupid that you believe what you believe because of what political side you’re on. You believe that “torture works” because the Republican party has told you to believe that. The weird thing is that you seem to really believe it. Which is not, in my understanding, how healthy brains are supposed to function.
Furthermore, you believe that our reasoning process is as sick as yours, and that the only reason we are arguing against the efficacy of torture is because of our personal political preference. You believe this despite the weight of evidence and reasoning that has been provided to the contrary. In fact, evidence and reasoning are apparently as meaningless to you as if we’d spent all this time copy/pasting “blah blah blah blah blah” into all of the posts above this one.
Do not invite such comparisons between yourself and us. It’s flatly insulting.
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:27 amrddaos Says:
By the way, funny you moon-landind-deniers think an “expert” is required to vouch for whether or not torturing someone can coerce them into giving up information they’d normally not give up.
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:23 am
rddaos Says:
You’re mixing the p.r. and legalities of torture with the coerciveness of torture. Totally apples and oranges.
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:24 am
And you are ignoring that what you propose doing is illegal, and if you were caught doing it, you could and should go to jail. And you still haven’t proven that you are right and we, and the experts who agree with us, are wrong. You’re very close to getting yourself banned. Again.
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:31 amDear troll, I don’t give a shit about your fruit basket of logic. The illegality of torture is enough. Whether you think it works is immaterial. It is illegal. It was sanctioned by the Bush Adminisration. They broke the law. CASE CLOSED!
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:33 amrddaos,
“holocaust-denying”?
The only people I’ve ever heard say that the holocaust didn’t happen were ideologically conservative. I have never heard a liberal claim it never happened. You really are ignorant.
I have three words for you:
READ A BOOK!
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:35 amTime to flag the moron.
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:35 amrddaos Says:
By the way, funny you moon-landind-deniers think an “expert” is required to vouch for whether or not torturing someone can coerce them into giving up information they’d normally not give up.
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:23 am
__________
That’s right. We do. Kindly provide some expertise or scientific evidence that proves that torturing someone can coerce them into giving up information they would not give up under any other circumstances. If you cannot do this, you will admit, by your omission of evidence, that you are a liar.
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:38 amKeltoi Says:
I can feel your justified frustration “dealing with” rddaos, but you are going a bit far on this one. No one is going to be executed for certain, and I would actually be surprised if anyone is arrested when all is said and done.
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:20 am
__________
That’s the law. The punishment for committing torture includes the death penalty under U.S. law, though I’d be willing to settle for lifetime imprisonment. If nobody is arrested and tried for these crimes, then the new President and his administration will be held accountable for their inaction in 2012.
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:41 amhussein toasterhead Says:
That’s the law. The punishment for committing torture includes the death penalty under U.S. law, though I’d be willing to settle for lifetime imprisonment. If nobody is arrested and tried for these crimes, then the new President and his administration will be held accountable for their inaction in 2012.
Which in turn will lead you to what? Vote for the Republican candidate?
Who knows, I could be wrong, Holder seems to have more enthusiasm for investigating than Obama. It just seems extremely unlikely to me there will be arrests. Only time will tell.
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:48 amAnd for the 2nd time, i’m not ADVOCATING the government torture. Just telling you what i’d do.
Yes, you are. You are claiming they should do it because “it works”. We are telling you that you are full of crap, and that you cannot back up your belief with a single verifiable fact. You are either a deliberate liar, or you are delusional and do not understand why you are lying.
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:52 amI have a hypothetical situation for our troll since he likes dealing in what-ifs so much. Suppose some men broke into your house late one night. Say you had just enough time to sneak your little daughter into the crawl space before the intruders entered the room. Luckily, this crawl space is virtually impossible to detect in the room and you tell her to be quiet no matter what. They have come to rob you, rape your wife and kidnap your daughter.. While they are raping your wife, you are tied up and beaten and made to watch, all the time denying that there is anyone else hiding in the house. Now pay attention troll, here’s where it get’s tricky. As they break your fingers one by one they repeatedly ask where the little girl is. See, they were casing your house and knew with some certainty that the three of you were home for the night. Now from what I could tell from his posts, our troll would most definitely give up his daughter’s hiding spot to stop the torture. He has admitted this weakness in his character in many of his previous posts. I mean, if he can offer no evidence that torture works, his assumption must be based on what he knows about himself and what he would do in such a situation.
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:58 amKeltoi Says:
Which in turn will lead you to what? Vote for the Republican candidate?
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:48 am
_________
Sure. I might as well. Democracy will be fully dead, so it really won’t matter if I vote Palin/Plumber in 2012.
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:58 amrddaos Says:
Of course it works. And unlike you, im not so p.c. that im ashamed to admit it. You moon landing-denying, flat-earther, 911 truther, holocaust-denying, hamas-sympathizing zombie
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:58 am
_________
Prove that torture works. You can’t. Therefore, you’re a liar. And because you are a liar, I can only conclude that you yourself are the moon landing denier, flat earther, 911-truther, holocaust-denying Hamas-sympathizer of which you speak.
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:01 pmrddaos says: I like torture. I don’t say that other people should torture, but I would.
rddaos is a product of the TV generation. While it is aware that TV is fiction, it CANNOT make the separation completely: it understands that Baur is a fictional character, but it believes that the things happening in that pretend world are entirely reality-based. The perception is that the world of the movies or of TV IS the really-real world, with some actors playing in it. Thus, Baur is fake, but that he can torture someone for information and they give it and it is useful — well, THAT PROVES that torture works, at least to it’s way of thinking, because THAT p[art is just the ‘really-real world’.
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:05 pmI never said they were pulling off your fingers, troll. They are only breaking them (which I’m sure would be okay with Woo and Addington as it is not life threatening and won’t cause any major permanent damge). Are you still sqealing like a stuck pig troll or would you buck up and keep your mouth shut?
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:07 pmrddaos,
You are insane. Please go away now. Rational discourse with you is impossible.
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:08 pm“Is Obama going to allow interrogation techniques outside the Army Field Manual?”
The answer is NO, he just signed an Executive order that says to use the Army Field Manual only.
rddaos = conservative mind set
conservative mind set = criminal
rddaos is a criminal
it’s only logical
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:08 pmSorry, I’ve been extremely busy at work.
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:09 pmHas rddiot proven, or provided links to, that torture works?
Or is it just “blah blah blah. blah blah blah. you leftists!”
Keltoi:
Actually, I don’t want Obama to investigate any kind of criminal behavior: that is not what we pay him to do. Now, the justice department, congress… another matter.
I agree with you in that we will just have to wait and see what actually happens. These things take time.
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:10 pmSo troll, after you gave up your daughter’s hiding spot, they took her and still killed you just for kicks. Feel better now, shit for brains? I’m sure your daughter would be proud of you as well.
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:12 pmrddaos Says:
Because it works, shit for brains. Deal with it.
_________
Works? Works like what, Viagra?
Hmmm, you do seem to get taller the longer you go on…
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:12 pmThe simple fact that rddaos is STILL here befouling the thread means YOU PEOPLE AREN’T FLAGGING!!!
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:14 pmrrdaos says: I like terrorism. I like torture. I hate America and its silly laws. Oh, and I like torture.
Interesting. Not rrdaos, mind you, but that fact that this wimpy excuse of a troll has engaged this thread this far and all it keeps doing is repeating “torture works, deal with it” ad nauseum. That and that every single post of its includes insults to individuals or groups.
Insults and two words do not a discussion make, nor do they constitute an intelligent argument.
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:17 pmdisengage this troll, people, please.
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:18 pmCageyCretin Says:
disengage this troll, people, please.
__________
FLAG. THE. CREEP!!!!!!!!!!!!
(That’s why TP gave us the option… sheesh…)
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:21 pmThe Republic of Stupidity Says:
Time to flag the moron.
That doesn’t count as winning. In fact, I’d say that flagging him out of here would effectively be conceding defeat, so I’d rather you didn’t. He may not be making any sense, but he does appear to be arguing for a position which he believes in. And the discussion is relevant to the topic.
He’s already been beaten. He thinks that if he keeps posting his thoroughly discredited arguments, that’s something aking to “winning.” I’d like to see if he comes up with a new tack that requires another beatdown.
.
rddaos Says:
And for the 2nd time, i’m not ADVOCATING the government torture. Just telling you what i’d do.
So you admit that the government shouldn’t do it, you just personally want to do it?
.
rddaos Says:
Of course it works. And unlike you, im not so p.c. that im ashamed to admit it.
Define “works.”
I’ve already addressed the rest of this comment. Please page-up and read the replies to your statements.
.
rddaos Says:
You moon landing-denying, flat-earther, 911 truther, holocaust-denying, hamas-sympathizing zombie
If you would like to discuss any of those topics, please do so in another thread.
.
rddaos Says:
No it’s you who agree that the country of Israel should be extinguished and replaced with an Islamic state. That’d be your left-wing vision of beauty, not mine.
No one here has ever argued that, except for the wingnut sock puppets who pop in to say so.
Again, you provide no reasoning for your argument.
.
CageyCretin Says:
While it is aware that TV is fiction, it CANNOT make the separation completely: it understands that Baur is a fictional character, but it believes that the things happening in that pretend world are entirely reality-based.
At least he believes that such circumstances are plausible. I think it’s natural for people to determine likelihood of a thing to be based on the number of cases they’ve seen with their own eyes. The cretin has only seen these situations on TV, and in most of those, the people being held and tortured were guilty and did have crucial information. That’s because if they didn’t it wouldn’t be very dramatic. But having seen say 10 cases in which 9 of them torture seemed justifiable by necessity, he concludes there’s a 90% certainty rate to information provided by torture.
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rddaos Says:
Torture goes all the way back to the earliest days of humankind. Just like terrorism. Because it works, shit for brains.
It goes back to the earliest days of mankind because there have always been evil people like yourself in the world. Just because something has been prevalent in history doesn’t mean its effective. One could make the same argument to support the claim that human sacrifice averts natural disasters.
.
rddaos Says:
Deal with it.
Please stop that. We are dealing with it.
.
rddaos Says:
Oh they’re only breaking them not pulling them off. Oh in that case I would smile and take it.
So torture doesn’t work?
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:29 pmThat is some tortuous logic.
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:35 pmI think he just wants to tie up other men and have his way with them.
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:37 pmhussein toasterhead Says:
Sure. I might as well. Democracy will be fully dead, so it really won’t matter if I vote Palin/Plumber in 2012.
Oh…God! I don’t know what is scarier, that ticket or the idea of you voting for it….
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:43 pmElBruce Says:
CageyCretin Says:
While it is aware that TV is fiction, it CANNOT make the separation completely:
At least he believes that such circumstances are plausible.
Hmmm. That makes sense. Of course, this looney troll is not alone in this flawed reasoning. When they view something that they find plausible, even if in a fictional setting, then they accept that as identical to reality.
I would wager that such types also think that observation equates to experience in many cases (e.g., “I know ALL about fixing cars – I watch that stuff all the time on tv”).
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:46 pmWhy sure. Their hero is a fake plumber who is now masquerading as a Middle East correspondant.
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:49 pmKeltoi Says:
hussein toasterhead Says:
Sure. I might as well. Democracy will be fully dead, so it really won’t matter if I vote Palin/Plumber in 2012.
Oh…God! I don’t know what is scarier, that ticket or the idea of you voting for it….
Be afraid… be very afraid….. :o
Thing is, I think I’m with the appliance (no insult intended :)) on this one. If these 4 years don’t see some changes and some accountability (to include from the recent past), then we are done as a free society.
However, I am still quite content. it WILL take time to see what all occurs.
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:50 pmA political hack and a butt crack in 2012.
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:54 pmExtremely
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:57 pmStupid
Person
shoeless Says:
I think he just wants to tie up other men and have his way with them.
____________
Seems to be a common fantasy w/ the GOOPer/torture crowd.
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:59 pmActually, rddaos, I have followed and had a keen interest in the space exploration program since February 1962 and completely believe that the US landed men on the moon and returned them safely to earth. I also believe that 911 was caused by radical Islamists, but utilized by PNAC. So, I know for a fact that your “theory” about us as presented in post 134 is inaccurate and a “stupid belief”.
As for the rest of your garbage posts, I suspect that you are a lonesome, socially inept, sexually frustrated person with a Napoleon complex.
January 22nd, 2009 at 1:13 pmrddaos Says:
One of you has got to explain how it’s possible for a total stranger to know just based on your idiot comments about torture not working, that you ALSO deny we landed on the moon and you ALSO deny muslims perpetrated 911.
I don’t have to explain it because those are all lies. I’ll tell you what I deny. You don’t tell me.
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rddaos Says:
When you started making ludicrous statements about torture not working, and demanding scientific evidence that torture can get info from people, I knew right off you were insane.
Well, there’s your problem right there. You seem to have the opposite definitions of “insane” from everybody else in the world.
January 22nd, 2009 at 1:16 pmHe’s not telepathic, just pathological.
January 22nd, 2009 at 1:17 pmrddaos – Do you want to know how we know you are a complete idiot?
Your posts are proof.
Are you getting the attention you so desperately need yet?
Because I’m pretty sure that even your dog hates you.
January 22nd, 2009 at 1:19 pmLooks like we will have to torture him before he will show us the evidence.
January 22nd, 2009 at 1:20 pmObama said he would have plenty to say about the Palestinian massacre when he would take office…
This is from my favorite Australian jornalist, John Pilger:
22 Jan 2009
In his latest column for the New Statesman, John Pilger writes that “as deserving as Tony Blair is of his George W. Bush Freedom Medal, others cry out for a place in his company”. Following Israel’s assault on Gaza, he offers two additional nominees.
On 13 January, George W. Bush presented ?presidential freedom medals?, said to be America?s highest recognition of devotion to freedom and peace. Among the recipients were Tony Blair, the epic liar who, with Bush, bears responsibility for the physical, social and cultural destruction of an entire nation; John Howard, the former prime minister of Australia and minor American vassal who led the most openly racist government in his country?s modern era; and Alvaro Uribe, the president of Colombia, whose government, according the latest study of that murderous state, is ?responsible for than 90 per cent of all cases of torture?.
As satire was made redundant when Henry Kissinger and Rupert Murdoch were honoured for their contributions to the betterment of humanity, Bush?s ceremony was, at least, telling of a system of which he and his freshly-minted successor are products. Although more spectacular in its choreographed histrionics, Barack Obama?s inauguration carried the same Orwellian message of inverted truth: of ruthlessness of criminal power, if not unending war. The continuity between the two administrations has been as seamless as the transfer of the odious Bono?s allegiance, symbolised by President Obama?s oath-taking on the steps of Congress ? where, only days earlier, the House of Representatives, dominated by the new president?s party, the Democrats, voted 390-5 to back Israel?s massacres in Gaza. The supply of American weapons used in the massacres was authorised previously by such a margin. These included the Hellfire missile which sucks the air out of lungs, ruptures livers and amputates arms and legs without the necessity of shrapnel: a ?major advance?, according to the specialist literature. As a senator, then president-elect, Obama raised no objection to these state-of-the-art [sic] weapons being rushed to Israel ? worth $22 billion in 2008 ? in time for the long-planned assault on Gaza?s fenced and helpless population. This is understandable; it how the system works. On no other issue does Congress and the president, Republicans or Democrats, conservatives or liberals, give such absolute support. By comparison, the German Reichstag in the 1930s was a treasure of democratic and principled debate.
This is not to say presidents and members of Congress fail to recognise the Israel ?lobbyists? in their midst as thugs and political blackmailers, though they never say in public, and indeed disport themselves at Zionist fund-raisers and on paid-for trips to the object of their ardour. But they fear them. As eyes welled on 20 January for the first African-American president, who remembered Cynthia McKinney, the courageous African-American Congresswoman, the first to be elected from Georgia, who spoke out for the Palestinians and was duly driven from office by a Zionist smear campaign? For their part, the Israelis? current, phoney ?unilateral ceasefire? in Gaza is designed not to embarrass, not yet, its new man in the White House, whose single acknowledgement of the ?suffering? of the Palestinians has been long eclipsed by his loyalty oaths to Tel Aviv (even promising Jerusalem as Israel?s capital, which not even Bush did) and his appointment of probably the most pro-Zionist administration for a generation.
As deserving as Blair, Howard and Uribe are of the Bush Freedom Medal, others cry out for a place in their company. With the assault on Gaza a defining moment of truth and lies, principle and cowardice, peace and war, justice and injustice, I have two nominees. My first is the government and society of Israel. (I checked; the Freedom Medal can be awarded collectively). ?Few of us,? wrote Arthur Miller, ?can easily surrender our belief that society must somehow make sense. The thought that the State has lost its mind and is punishing so many innocent people is intolerable. And so the evidence has to be internally denied.?
The bleak irony of this should be clear to all in Israel, yet its denial has emboldened a militarist, racist cult that uses every epithet against the Palestinians that was once directed at Jews, with the exception of extermination ? and even that is not entirely excluded, as the deputy defence minister, Matan Vilinai, noted last year with his threat of a shoa (holocaust).
In 1948, the year Israel?s right to exist was granted and Palestine?s annulled, Albert Einstein, Hannah Arendt and other leading Jews in the United States warned the administration not to get involved with fascists like Menachem Begin who described the Palestinians in the way the Nazis used untermenchen ? as ?animals on two legs?. He became prime minister of Israel. This fascism, which was not often flouted openly, was the harbinger of Likud and Kadima. These are today ?mainstream? political parties, whose influence, in the treatment of the Palestinians, covers a national ?consensus? that is the source of the terror in Palestine: the brutal dispossessions and perfidious controls, the humiliation and cruelty by statute. The mirror of this is domestic violence at home. Conscripted soldiers return from their ?war? on Palestinian women and children and make war on their own. Young whites drafted into South Africa?s apartheid army did the same. Inhumanity on such a scale cannot be buried indefinitely. When Desmond Tutu described his experience in Palestine and Israel as ?worse than apartheid?, he pointed out that not even in white supremacist South Africa were there the equivalent of ?Jews only? roads. Uri Avnery, one of Israel?s bravest dissidents, says his country?s leaders suffer from ?moral insanity?: a prerequisite, I should add, for the award of a Bush Freedom Medal.
My other nominee for a Bush Freedom Medal is that amorphous group known as western journalism, which has always made much of its freedom and impartiality. Listen to the way Israeli ?spokespersons? and ambassadors are interviewed. How respectfully their official lies are received; how minimally they are challenged. They are one of us, you see: calm and western-sounding, even blonde, female and attractive. The frightened, jabbering voice on the line from Gaza is not one of us. That is the subliminal message. Listen to newsreaders use only the pejoratives for the Palestinians: words like ?militants? for resisters to invasion, many of them heroes, a word never used, and ?conflict? for massacre. Mark the timeless propaganda that suggests there are two equal powers fighting a ?war?, not a stricken people, attacked and starved by the world?s fourth largest military power which ensures they have no places of refuge. And note the omissions — the BBC does not preface its reports with the warning that a foreign power controls its reporters? movements, as it did in Serbia and Argentina, neither does it explain why it shows but glimpses of the extraordinary coverage of al-Jazeera from within Gaza.
There are the ubiquitous myths, too: that Israel has suffered terribly from thousands of missiles fired from Gaza. In truth, the first homemade Qassam rocket was fired across the Israeli border in October 2001, and the first fatality occurred in June 2004. Some 24 Israelis had been killed in this way, compared with 5000 Palestinians killed, more than half of them in Gaza, at least a third of them children. Now imagine if the 1.5 million Gazans had been Jewish, or Kosovar refugees. ?The only honorable course for Europe and America is to use military force to try to try to protect the people of Kosovo…?, declared the Guardian on 23 March, 1999. Inexplicably, the Guardian has yet to call for such ?an honorable course? to protect the people of Gaza.
Such is the rule of acceptable victims and unacceptable victims. When reporters break this rule they are accused of ?anti-Israel bias? and worse, and their life is made a misery by a hyperactive cyber-army that drafts complaints, provides generic material and coaches people all over the world on how to smear as ?anti-Jewish? work they have not seen. These vociferous campaigns are complemented by anonymous death threats, which I and others have experienced. Their latest tactic is malicious hacking into websites. But that is desperate, since the times are changing.
Across the world, people once indifferent to the arcane ?conflict? in the Middle East, now ask the question the BBC and CNN rarely ask: Why does Israel have a right to exist, but Palestine does not? They ask, too, why do the lawless enjoy such immunity in the pristine world of balance and objectivity? The perfectly-spoken Israeli ?spokesman? represents the most lawless regime on earth, exotic tyrannies included, according to a tally of United Nations resolutions defied and Geneva Conventions defiled. In France, 80 organisations are working to bring war crimes indictments against Israel?s leaders. On 15 January, the fine Israeli reporter, Gideon Levy, wrote in Ha?aretz that Israeli generals ?will not be the only ones to hide in El Al planes lest they are arrested [overseas]?.
One day, other journalists and their editors and producers may be called upon to not only explain why they did not tell the truth about these criminals but even to stand in the dock with them. No Bush Freedom Medal is worth that.
January 22nd, 2009 at 1:22 pmThat’s because he tortures his dog until it talks to him.
January 22nd, 2009 at 1:24 pmSounds like we have another sick freak from the most loathsome “Christian” site on the web. Sounds identical, right down to the “milk and cookies” BS.
http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=75537
BTW. What possible “actionable information” could we possibly get from those who have been held for years? The stupid troll’s torture fantasies are just a misplaced desire for revenge.
January 22nd, 2009 at 1:24 pmTime for the evil to skulk off into the dark and sulk. You don’t get to decider any more……No more children who pull the wings off of bugs to run our national policies anymore.
January 22nd, 2009 at 1:30 pmrddaos is the kind of person you warn your children about. He’s a typical wife and child abuser. Really an upstanding citizen aside from that I’m sure.
January 22nd, 2009 at 1:31 pmpete Says: another sick freak from the most loathsome “Christian” site
Wow, did you read what some of those freaks posted on that site?
What a bunch of sick fcks.
I have a hard time even imagining that scum bags like that exist still.
January 22nd, 2009 at 1:36 pmThey are still around. It’s just been hard for them to get work since the Inquisition ended.
January 22nd, 2009 at 1:41 pmYes. I have read that thread, Buckie Boy. Most of them are as vile as the KKK or the Taliban. And that’s where Daryll got his new moniker. Which is, incidentally, why I’ve lost all patience with that particular POS.
January 22nd, 2009 at 1:45 pmpete Says:
That is one messed up site. Xians? I didn’t read past the first page, but just ‘wow’ that these people (and I use that term loosely) can truly believe the hate they post and still claim to be xian. And the two posters I read who were sounding like they wanted to live up to their dogma were being hounded for it.
I guess “Greed, Hate, and Selfishness” are the new holy trinity for todays christianity.
sad, really.
Jesus weeps.
January 22nd, 2009 at 2:35 pmrddaos Says:
Give up? Ok I’ll tell you how I was able to find out all this information about you and your whacky ideas. When you started making ludicrous statements about torture not working, and demanding scientific evidence that torture can get info from people, I knew right off you were insane. And insane people typically ALSO buy into all sorts of idiot conspiracy theories.
January 22nd, 2009 at 1:03 pm
___________
Ahhh, okay. So it’s much the same way that I know you are a child molester and an animal abuser.
Anyone who believes torture should be used as an interrogation method is obviously sociopathic, with utter contempt for all human and animal life. I can thus conclude that you kidnap children as younng as four and rape them in the back of your van. I can also conclude that you steal cats and small dogs from your neighbors’ houses and chop off their limbs with bolt cutters.
I know this, because you support torture.
January 22nd, 2009 at 2:41 pmCageyCretin:
That thread is, actually, pretty tame for the Raptards. Recently they have been cheering on the slaughter of Palestinian children, “because at least their souls will be saved”, and praying for Obama to suffer the same fate as Lincoln. Dissenters typically get banned and I doubt that the sane ones from this thread will be around long.
They are dangerous fanatics and are not the only ones who preach vile filth “In the name of Jesus”. I can’t help but think that our home-grown, “Christian”, fundamentalists are a greater danger than those from any foreign country.
January 22nd, 2009 at 2:51 pm.
Isn’t this how we got into this mess to begin with? Ignoring Laws?
CHANGE does not come easily, But CHANGE must happen, lest we have not CHANGED at all.
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January 22nd, 2009 at 3:00 pmpete Says:
Sounds like we have another sick freak from the most loathsome “Christian” site on the web. Sounds identical, right down to the “milk and cookies” BS.
Urk. There’s something especially stomach-churning about seeing those same arguments surrounded by all these “Christian” signatures and cute animations.
January 22nd, 2009 at 3:12 pmI can’t remember how the story went. Did torture “work” when the Romans did it to Jesus?
January 22nd, 2009 at 3:22 pmfunny how internet nobodies are happy to declare that torture works but real experts are not. Weird…
http://explore.georgetown.edu/news/?ID=20647
January 22nd, 2009 at 4:11 pm______
DvlsAdvocat Says:
Obama needs to pull the plug on all “enhanced techniques” and go strictly by the book. Don’t friggin’ start capitulating to the jackbooted Republicans on the first goddamn day….
January 22nd, 2009 at 9:55 am
______
The statement “…that the White House might be open to allowing the use of methods other the 19 techniques allowed for the military,” does not mean Obama will consider torture.
January 22nd, 2009 at 4:26 pm______
republicans hate facts Says:
upright left Says:
The statement “…that the White House might be open to allowing the use of methods other the 19 techniques allowed for the military,” does not mean Obama will consider torture.
Wow, that’s the only REASONABLE thing you’ve EVER POSTED – WHO WROTE IT FOR YOU? ;)
January 22nd, 2009 at 6:13 pm
______
No, it’s at least the second thing that fits the lib standard of reasonable. Marlow once accused me of “acting” reasonable. ;)
January 22nd, 2009 at 6:28 pmNevar Says:
One of the more heinous techniques will be to force the subject to listen to Rush Limbaugh 24/7.
Having to read troll-posts from this thread could also elicit considerable information. . .
January 23rd, 2009 at 11:22 amrddddddddaos sez: Idiots typically dont just have one idiot idea like torture not working. They typically hold MANY stupid beliefs at once.
[the ds stand for dumb, dip-s--t, dysfunctional, diarrhea-tongued, despicable, dim-witted, disgusting. . .] Idiots typically don’t have one idiot idea like torture WORKING. They typically hold MANY stupid beliefs at once, such as that BushCo was a moral administration, that “what’s good for General Bullmoose is good for the USA,” that voting Republican will user in the Peaceful Kingdom on earth, that macerating civil rights is acceptable since “father–make that “Big Brother”–knows best,” that Squush is a prophet. . . you’re right, rddaos: idiots DO hold many stupid beliefs at once.
January 23rd, 2009 at 11:28 am