Torture Lover John Yoo Excoriates Obama For Banning Torture
Torture Lover John Yoo Excoriates Obama For Banning Torture
John Yoo, infamous author of the Bush administration legal memos authorizing the use of torture on suspected terrorists, slams President Obama for banning torture in a Wall Street Journal op-ed today, gravely warning that Obama “may have opened the door to further terrorist acts on U.S. soil.”
Throughout the article, Yoo insists that torture is America’s most effective weapon against terrorists and warns that without it, the U.S. will be incapable of intelligence-gathering:
Eliminating the Bush system will mean that we will get no more information from captured al Qaeda terrorists. Every prisoner will have the right to a lawyer (which they will surely demand), the right to remain silent, and the right to a speedy trial. [...]
Relying on the civilian justice system not only robs us of the most effective intelligence tool to avert future attacks, it provides an opportunity for our enemies to obtain intelligence on us.
Considering the Bush administration repeatedly insisted its use of coercive techniques was “limited,” it would be a far stretch even for loyal Bushies to suggest that torture is not the one and only method to obtaining information. And as ThinkProgress has made clear again and again, numerous intelligence experts and real interrogators agree that, far from being “the most effective intelligence tool,” torture simply doesn’t work.
Yoo continues his screed by making up facts about Obama’s ban:
The CIA must now conduct interrogations according to the rules of the Army Field Manual, which prohibits coercive techniques, threats and promises, and the good-cop bad-cop routines used in police stations throughout America. … His new order amounts to requiring — on penalty of prosecution — that CIA interrogators be polite.
Yoo has no idea what he’s talking about. Nothing requires anyone to “be polite” — although the rapport building method has often proved to be interrogators’ most effective technique. And the notion that good-cop/bad-cop would be banned is simply false, Media Matters pointed out earlier this week:
In fact, the Army Field Manual explicitly permits good cop-bad cop interrogations under the name of “Mutt and Jeff” interrogations, which involve two interrogators “display[ing] opposing personalities and attitudes toward the source.” The Field Manual says the “goal of this technique is to make the source identify with one of the interrogators and thereby establish[ing] rapport and cooperation.”
It’s no secret that Yoo is an ardent torture enthusiast: He famously said that only those techniques that inflict pain equivalent to “death, organ failure or permanent damage resulting in a loss of significant body functions” constitute torture, and last year refused to agree that the president could not order a detainee buried alive. With Obama signaling a clean break from the Bush administration’s terrorism policies, it’s no wonder Yoo is desperate to restore his crumbling torture regime.
What is needed are the tools to gain vital intelligence, which is why, under President George W. Bush, the CIA could hold and interrogate high-value al Qaeda leaders. On the advice of his intelligence advisers, the president could have authorized coercive interrogation methods like those used by Israel and Great Britain in their antiterrorism campaigns. (He could even authorize waterboarding, which he did three times in the years after 9/11.)
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
Shorter Yoo:
How can we be safe if our enemies know we aren’t willing to crush the testicles of little boys?
January 29th, 2009 at 12:05 pmWhat everyone ‘FAILS’ to think about is the consequences.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:08 pmIf we do it, then they can do it.
America, do you want YOUR sons and daughters tortured?
Think about it!!!
is yoo having a hard time getting a job like gonzo?
January 29th, 2009 at 12:08 pmYoo will have all the time to talk about how wrong Obama is for not allowing torture while he’s in jail. I’m sure his fellow prisoners will want to hear all about it and even see how torture works. Yes Yoo can have them waterboard him to show it’s not bad at all.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:09 pmYoo should be ashamed of Yoorself.
/sorry
January 29th, 2009 at 12:09 pmEliminating the Bush system will mean that we will get no more information from captured Bush Administration terrorists.
Yoo going to jail for WAR CRIMES…what color do you want your cell painted?
January 29th, 2009 at 12:10 pmJohn Yoo is a sick fu(k.
‘Nuff said.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:10 pmThese people are an embarassment to America to our species and to humanity itself. They simply dont understand the concept of decency
January 29th, 2009 at 12:10 pmEvery prisoner will have the right to a lawyer (which they will surely demand), the right to remain silent, and the right to a speedy trial.
It scares me that a supposedly educated person in the United States thinks that is a bad thing
January 29th, 2009 at 12:10 pmHe famously said that only those techniques that inflict pain equivalent to “death, organ failure or permanent damage resulting in a loss of significant body functions” constitute torture…
So the Inquisition and the Salem Witch trials mostly get a free pass. Oh wait, it’s only torture if it’s done by a unicorn! Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?
I am appalled that UC Berkeley actually cuts this guy a paycheck. To teach “law,” no less. Not as a janitor or anything reasonable like that.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:11 pmThe admission that torture was used speaks for itself. It’s a shame that all deniers are left out to dry.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:11 pmGod; what a monster. Drive a stake through his heart!!
January 29th, 2009 at 12:11 pmLet’s hope this statement about Bush’s authorization of waterboarding three times shows up as evidence in the War Crimes trial.
“He Approved Torture” should be engraved on the Chimp’s gravestone. The sooner the better.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:12 pmEliminating the Bush system will mean that we will get no more information from captured al Qaeda terrorists. Every prisoner will have the right to a lawyer (which they will surely demand), the right to remain silent, and the right to a speedy trial…
Good point. Because law enforcement NEVER gets information from suspects during their investigations, do they?
Just think how much safer our streets would be if we could torture suspects in petty property crimes or common assaults? Why, it would be heaven on earth!
January 29th, 2009 at 12:13 pmPlease, please keeping flapping your gums, John Yoo. You’ll end up spilling all the beans eventually. This guy must have been a helluva courtroom whiz.
Go right ahead, Yoo, show us all those cards…….
January 29th, 2009 at 12:13 pmit was my understanding from the comments of the actual persons who did the torturing that the information gained from torturing that the information was of no value.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:14 pmThis man needs to be jailed NOW! Get him out of public circulation while mounting a criminal prosecution !!
January 29th, 2009 at 12:14 pmI move that Yoo be tortured to see if he thinks it’s not torture.
Anybody second the motion?
January 29th, 2009 at 12:15 pmFuture generations will wonder how we tolerated these people.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:15 pmWow! After WWII did Hermann Goring write an editorial slamming FDR for shutting down the gas chambers?
If John Yoo had any sense, he would quietly crawl away to Paraguay and hope that the future war crimes prosecutors forget about him.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:17 pmPerry logan Says:
Future generations will wonder how we tolerated these people.
As exciting as it is to be alive in this day and age, I’m also ashamed. This crap is about as foreign to everything I’ve ever been told America was since I was a baby, as any other country could be.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:18 pmkuvasz Says:
it was my understanding from the comments of the actual persons who did the torturing that the information gained from torturing that the information was of no value.
____________
This disturbing little factoid has been mentioned repeatedly, and ignored repeatedly by the proponents of torture, which makes me wonder if they’re not, huh, “motivated” by something other than security issues.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:19 pmYeah, the torture business is in the midst of a big downturn.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:19 pmIt’s not a new idea, but I propose that all who think waterboarding is not torture be subjected to it, then asked if their opinion has changed.
As to John Woo (who has no compunctions about torture), why does this man still have a teaching position, instead of something in the prison laundry?
January 29th, 2009 at 12:20 pmPerry Logan says:
Future generations will wonder how we tolerated these people.
Answer; The same way we wonder how Germans tolerated the Nazi era.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:20 pmCall in the BART cops to handle that twisted creep. Start with a few shots from the Tazer, then have three cops on him, one with a knee in the back. If he begs for mercy, shoot him in the back.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:21 pm“The military is using us to say, ‘We did spooky stuff then, so it’s okay to do it now,’” said Arno Mayer, 81, who now teaches at Princeton. Another vet recalled their grilling tactics, saying they felt bad if they bugged cells or edited letters. “We got more information out of a German general with a game of chess or ping-pong than they do today, with their torture.”
These WWII Vets need to be commended for speaking truth to power.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:21 pmThe SOB is still teaching at Berkeley, isn’t he? Why don’t they unload this MFer?
January 29th, 2009 at 12:21 pmDoes Yoo like his steak rare, medium-rare, medium, well-done, or tortured?
January 29th, 2009 at 12:21 pmSomeone should take a potato pealer to his weiner and than dip it in iodine..
January 29th, 2009 at 12:22 pmIf that’s the most effective weapon the bush admin had then it should be obvious to everyone why they have been such magnanimous failures at everything.
If we can’t gather information without torture then really, just how pathetic is that?
sad, pathetic, and acting like they know how to get things done, even with a track record of abject failure…..run on that republicans……oh yeah, you did….
January 29th, 2009 at 12:22 pmWhen I looked at this headline juxtaposed with that picture of Yoo, my first thought was that Obama just took away Yoo’s favorite video game.
As I read through the item, it seems that’s exactly the kind of scenario this is. And Yoo is using rather childish arguments in his protest.
“Eliminating the Bush system will mean that we will get no more information from captured al Qaeda terrorists.”
– Oh, really? Why do we hear this meme from the torture enthusiasts all the time, but we never hear even ONE specific example of actual information gained?
“Every prisoner will have the right to a lawyer (which they will surely demand), the right to remain silent, and the right to a speedy trial.”
– Right. This is such a sucky system, it would never work for anyone, let alone the most powerful country in the world for the past 232 years.
“…robs us of the most effective intelligence tool to avert future attacks…”
– Waitaminnit here. Torture is the most effective intelligence tool we have? Since torture isn’t all that effective, this puts our intelligence system in a rather bad light. Whatever happened to good old-fashioned espionage?
“…it provides an opportunity for our enemies to obtain intelligence on us.”
– Huh? Care to give us a plausible example of this that isn’t from a “24″ or action movie plot?
I won’t even comment on the rest of Yoo’s twaddle. But if I was this guy’s mom, and this was the type of argument he was making for why I should restore his video games to him, it wouldn’t sway me.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:22 pmThe Borgen Project (www.borgenproject.org) has some interesting facts concerning global poverty. It would cost $30 billion to eliminate global poverty, a small fraction of the $522 billion that was spent on the defense budget last year. Every night there are 800 million people that go to sleep hungry, 300 million are children.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:23 pmRelying on the civilian justice system not only robs us of the most effective intelligence tool to avert future attacks, it provides an opportunity for our enemies to obtain intelligence on us.
This makes no sense whatsoever. John Yoo needs to be prosecuted for war crimes. He is a pathetic man and a coward hiding behind bogus “legal opinions.” Why on earth he gets op-ed space is beyond me. He is an admitted war criminal.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:23 pmFat Toad Yoo is embarrassing AND indicting himself at the same time.
TORTURE IS INEFFECTIVE.
TORTURE HAS ALWAYS BEEN INEFFECTIVE.
THE USE OF TORTURE JUSTIFIES HATRED OF THE US IN THE MINDS OF EXTREMISTS AND MAKES US LESS SAFE.
Why aren’t these people reminded of this each and every time they open their fat mouths?
January 29th, 2009 at 12:24 pmIt’s the right thing to close Gitmo. But, there are very few perfect choices.
I think it is reasonable to assume that changing the situation in Gitmo (which is the right decision) could result in some of the detainees being released to act against the U.S.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,483764,00.html
Do the benefits outweigh the risks. Yes.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:24 pmAnd Yet… Says:
The SOB is still teaching at Berkeley, isn’t he? Why don’t they unload this MFer?
I’d send his publications to review for any academic misconduct. It was done with Ward Churchill, and it can certainly be done with John Yoo.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:24 pmThis is truly sick. If torture is an effective means of gathering needed information, can the police torture a suspect to find a missing child or a kidnap victim or to gain a confession? What would people say if it was found out that some gung-ho sheriff in some podunk town had someone tortured? I’d like to think that their community and the nation would be in an uproar, like we all should be right now.
That’s not what we do in America and we need to make it clear to the rest of the world, beginning by denouncing these criminals and reprobates like John Yoo.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:26 pmRelying on the civilian justice system not only robs us of the most effective intelligence tool to avert future attacks, it provides an opportunity for our enemies to obtain intelligence on us.
Seriously, I can’t get beyond how idiotic this is. What intelligence will they gain? An actual understanding of habeus corpus and American civil rights what a bailiff is, the construction of those typewriters stenographers use???
Maybe those would be a GOOD things to spread the word on, as opposed to maintaining the World’s Only Torturing Superpower mantle.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:28 pmHas the Borgen Project met the Privacy Center?
January 29th, 2009 at 12:28 pmI think they would make a cute couple
backup Says:
It’s the right thing to close Gitmo. But, there are very few perfect choices.
I think it is reasonable to assume that changing the situation in Gitmo (which is the right decision) could result in some of the detainees being released to act against the U.S.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,483764,00.html
Do the benefits outweigh the risks. Yes.
Whatever Backedup. Why don’t you stay on topic here and discuss your position on the effectiveness of torture. Any thoughts?
January 29th, 2009 at 12:28 pmbackup Says:
It’s the right thing to close Gitmo. But, there are very few perfect choices.
I think it is reasonable to assume that changing the situation in Gitmo (which is the right decision) could result in some of the detainees being released to act against the U.S.
This is so lame. Every time they’ve quoted numbers of released detainees that have found their way onto the battlefield, the number changes. In any event, detainees being released would probably still be subject to monitoring to make certain that the verdict that released them was the right one.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:30 pmUncle Ho Says:
Answer; The same way we wonder how Germans tolerated the Nazi era.
Which is why war crimes trials are so important. If these people don’t face justice for what they’ve done, the tacit assumption that America might do such things again is going to follow us around forever.
.
Fred Says:
If we can’t gather information without torture then really, just how pathetic is that?
I’d call that nation-leading about on par with… Saddam Hussein comes to mind for some reason.
.
backup Says:
I think it is reasonable to assume that changing the situation in Gitmo (which is the right decision) could result in some of the detainees being released to act against the U.S.
There’s that “could.” You “could” be a terrorist too, for all I know.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:31 pmJohn Woo, Doug Feith, David Addington. I hope when the time comes each of these traitors gets the opportunity to swing next to their former bosses. Our Nation was formed during a period of conflict. The enemy was on our soil and the laws that we adopted were put in place to protect us specifically in times of conflict. To say that a president has the right to ignore our laws during a time of war goes directly against the spirit of American law. Justice is supposed to be blind. This means that it does not matter who breaks the law, we are all supposed to be judged equally. The treaties that we signed particularly apply during wartime and if broken deserve the harshest of penalties. President Obama is obligated to order prosecution of these crimes under the agreement of international treaties that we are signatories of. Your time will come Mr. Woo and justice will be done…
January 29th, 2009 at 12:32 pmbackup thinks he is a master baiter…..
play up our point of view but countered with a faux link to the contrary….you aren’t even fun anymore catpain mantasic.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:32 pmhere’s what’s going on;
yoo MUST make believe otherwise he becomes prosecutable for war crimes, as does Cheney and bush, in fact Cheney is having yoo go public with his rantings to protect against prosecution
16 generals begged Obama to follow our law BECAUSE there is less information through torture…you must read that link, a brigadier general goes public
through policies of torture we get less information not more, we get actionable information not actionable, we waste assets, we waste time
information is lost and assets are used researching wild goose chases, security events are not prevented they are facilitated from our policies condoning torture
those are the obvious practical implications, there are other obvious implications but they don’t become obvious till told, then once told they are clear as day;
if my brother, friend, son, friends friend is ever tortured that body turns me and all my friends into terrorists
that is something that I cannot believe is not pointed out in the corporate propaganda while it tries to defend Cheney and his actions against our country and Constitution.
each person tortured breads legions more terrorists, each action of torture will create another attempt at terrorism in retaliation and retribution
our policies of touter turn advocates into enemies, moderates into radicals, radicals into terrorists, terrorists into heroes.
a person who might have been sympathetic to our cause will NEVER volunteer information for fear of that torture
and there will be NO willing surrenders, each person will fight to the death rather then face the prospect of torture.
here’s the real travesty;
the administration was informed of those very results, that they would incite terrorism not prevent it, that they would create terrorists not disabuse them, that they would cause events not eliminate them, that they would create insurgency.
they knew the results of these policies, they were informed what would happen before the initiated their policy
it becomes brutally clear they did not want to “win the hearts and minds” of the middle east, it becomes clear they wanted unending unrest
so to prove that last paragraph is not hyperbole, we have the record of Cheney who invented data that undermined Nixon’s treaty of détente, way back then he proved to us he did not want peace and would do whatever it might take to prevent it
January 29th, 2009 at 12:33 pmYoo is another water carrier for the cheney/bush illegal acts while in office defense tactic. This is nothing more than attempt to get public support behind torture and case Obama as being willing to sacrafice Americans instead of continuing and eventually punishing cheney/bush for their illegal actions.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:35 pmbackup Says:
Do the benefits outweigh the risks. Yes.
___________
Siiiiiiiiigh… one last time.
Closing Gitmo doesn’t mean “we turn them all loose”. There are PLENTY of maximum security prisons in the US we can hold them in. It’d also be nice to actually PUT THEM ON TRIAL and CONVICT THEM. Like Clinton did w/ the WTC bombers from 1993.
In some cases, BotchCo bungled this so badly, it will be hard to figure out what to do w/ certain detainees, but that doesn’t mean keeping Gitmo in business is the only choice we have. Hello??? Where are the case files?
The Gitmo mess appears to be yet another instance of Botch deciding to stick his successor w/ a mess to clean up.
I don’t know about the rest of you, but 10 days into Obama’s FIRST term, I already feel less safe.
Hey, b-cup… you never answered my question over on the economic stimulus thread. Will those that voted against the bill refuse any of the money?
January 29th, 2009 at 12:35 pmYoo believes that all of the Knights Templars in the middle ages who confessed to being witches who flew around on broomsticks must have actually been telling the truth I guess.
Or all those who “confessed” to all sorts of utterly absurd things to the Spanish Inquisition or at the Salem Witch trials.
Or, for that Matter, John McCain when he finally did break down and sign a confession under torture.
One of the 800 things about this that annoy me is that it is hardly ever pointed out that TORTURE DOES NOT WORK!!!!
Yes, you get “information” . . . . you get whatever “information” the person being tortured thinks you want them to give you, so that it will finally stop. . . even for a short time. As the information you get is completely unreliable, what is the real reason these idiots want to do it?
Of course another reason to be annoyed with it is that it provides a giant recruitment poster for those who want people to join the fight against us. People don’t join revolutionary or insurrectionary movements for the heck of it, they join them because their lives and their experience has convinced them that the chance to fight is worth risking the lives and well-being of everyone they care about. Giving people near the fence this many reasons to jump to the other side does nothing but hurt us. When you measure that enormous down side against the utter lack of any upside whatsoever, why would we do this again??
Then again there is the fact that it is both criminal under US and international law, and completely immoral, but those arguments will never fly with the right. To them morality is exclusively about who you sleep with.
If anything, Obama is being too centrist on this. We have indisputable proof that there are criminals in the prior administration on this issue alone. The Justice department’s job is to investigate and prosecute criminals. GET TO IT!
January 29th, 2009 at 12:37 pmA Patriot Acting Says:
To say that a president has the right to ignore our laws during a time of war goes directly against the spirit of American law.
Not to mention that in no legal sense are we at war.
.
perris Says:
yoo MUST make believe otherwise he becomes prosecutable for war crimes, as does Cheney and bush, in fact Cheney is having yoo go public with his rantings to protect against prosecution
I get that, but he’s just making things worse for himself and for them. Of course, that’s about par for his abilities as a lawyer.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:40 pmbackup Says:
I think it is reasonable to assume that changing the situation in Gitmo (which is the right decision) could result in some of the detainees being released to act against the U.S.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
It’s reasonable to assume that the moon is made of brie, but that doesn’t make it remotely factual. Indeed, many government officials have cited the number of former detainees who have returned to the battlefield. According to a recent study, exactly 24, 29, 12, 10, 12, 25, 10, 15, 30, 12, 10, 2, 12, 15, 12, 5, some, 12, 10, a couple, 7, 1, and 62 detainees have returned to the battlefield after being released.
Interestingly, in many cases “returning to the battlefield” means writing a newspaper editorial or appearing in a documentary. SCARY!!!!
January 29th, 2009 at 12:41 pmgudin Says:
Yoo believes that all of the Knights Templars in the middle ages who confessed to being witches who flew around on broomsticks must have actually been telling the truth I guess.
Torture was an incredibly effective method for gaining intelligence on the witch threat. Case in point: how many witch attacks has Western Europe suffered since then?
January 29th, 2009 at 12:43 pmAG Holder? Here is your first priority.
What a nauseating person.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:43 pmOf course, when you think about it, Yoo’s current stance (and a wide one it is at that) is consistent w/ his prior position (think ankles…). I mean, once you’ve gone out on that limb – advocating FOR torture – where else do you have to go?
Can Yoo possibly say, “My bad” and ever expect to be acceptable in normal, sane society again? I foresee some sort of “Ship Of Fools” scenario unfolding here, w/ Yoo, Alberto, Rummy, Botch, et all… sailing forever, hoping to find a port ANYWHERE that will let them dock, to no avail.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:44 pmLet me stick up for B-cup this one time.
He’s making a point that is important to consider but is frequently ignored because the pro-torture folks with their “black or white” worldview like to pretend that either we hold these people indefinitely with no recourse for them to prove their innocence, or else we drop them in the middle of a sleepy town in Kansas and let them go all “In Cold Blood” on the nation.
B-cup is right; there’s a chance that if we give these detainees due process, some of them will slip out of a deserved sentence and possibly mount an attack on our interests. That possibility should be acknowledged.
But the pro-torture camp makes it impractical to even acknowledge truths like that because they operate in a world divorced from reality, where they think it’s possible to guarantee 100% safety, and the way to guarantee it is to torture people we think are bad guys.
So much effort has to be put into the push-back against their moronic ideas that troubling truths like B-cup brings up get trampled.
I think that our friend B-cup frequently engages in faux-reasonableness for the sake of arguing, but in this case, I take his judgment “Do the benefits outweigh the risks. Yes.” as sincere and reasonable.
okay… lemme have it.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:44 pmUC Berkeley School of Law
215 Boalt Hall
Berkeley, CA 94720-7200
P: 510-642-1741
Dean – Christopher Edley
Fax him here: 510-642-9893
This disgustingly vile man should NOT be teaching “law” in any decent school. Please write or fax the dean and let him know.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:48 pmGASP! Ralph!! Are you a sheep in troll’s clothing?
Are you advocating we take turns pretending to be trolls, just so’s we have some way to keep our chops sharp?
January 29th, 2009 at 12:49 pmSo he is saying that both Israel and Great Britain have tortured prisoners? I bet that they will have something to say about that.
He has to justify the Bush Administrations use of torture since he is the one who told them it was legal to do so. I will so love seeing this vile human being being put in jail. And for the life of me I can’t understand how a great college like Berkeley can have him on his staff. But, I also don’t understand why Stanford is bringing Condi back on staff either.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:52 pmTRoS, the thought had crossed my mind.
But in this case I guess I’m just frustrated that the trolls — and John Yoo is a troll — distort the debate by insisting on their unrealistic worldview, while we in the Reality-Based Community™ are left struggling just to get them to stay within the lines on the field.
besides, b-cup is a pain in the ass but he and Keltoi are as close as we come to opposition voices that can actually converse. I like to encourage that.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:53 pmThe answer to B-cups question is that countries such as Great Britain when faced with the IRA and even Isreael dealing with the PLO have found that a) coercive techniques do not provide accurate inforamtion and b) it energizes the recruitment and drives of the forces against you.
We should remember how well U.S. Forces were regarded in WWII, and how Italian and (some) German forces would willfully surrender knowing they would be treated well and humanely. We should remember that the same thing happened during the first Gulf War, and contrast that with the massive upturn in the Iraqi Insurgency immediately after Abu Ghraib. Why do we weigh those risks and benefits into the equation of following the law and due process with detainees?
Vyan
January 29th, 2009 at 12:53 pmThe Republic of Stupidity Says:
Of course, when you think about it, Yoo’s current stance (and a wide one it is at that) is consistent w/ his prior position (think ankles…). I mean, once you’ve gone out on that limb – advocating FOR torture – where else do you have to go?
Good point. “Stay the course” is all these people ever had since they first started screwing up governing, and their crimes and failures have just been snowballing ahead of them ever since. I bet a lot of them actually thought they could stop running ahead of the avalanche once they got out of office, but the avalanche doesn’t forgive.
So now for each one of them that admits something, we’ve got another one popping up to admit two things so they can defend even more crimes, even more desperately. Hopefully this is going to lead to a massive acceleration of them spilling all of their vile, blackhearted goals and desires in public until everyone (except a certain 22%) is in agreement that they must be punished.
.
Leftside Annie Says:
This disgustingly vile man should NOT be teaching “law” in any decent school. Please write or fax the dean and let him know.
I’m sure he’s received plenty of complaints from the last two years. What’s going to make a difference is when people start talking about which law schools to send their kids to and the phrase comes up, “Berkeley? You mean that shack where John Yoo teaches? You must be joking.” The more he hears that, the sooner he will come to his senses.
And it’s not about John Yoo being evil, it’s about him being simply unfit to practice or teach law because of the vast amount of American law of which he is clearly ignorant. As far as I’m concerned, you don’t get to pass the bar if you can’t even pass a School House Rock episode on checks and balances.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:54 pmWhat’s even more sad is that Obama’s DOJ may have no choice except to defend not only Yoo but Rumsfeld as well in the law suit that Padilla (sp) has filed against them. I read about it over at TPM yesterday.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:55 pmbackup Says:
I think it is reasonable to assume that changing the situation in Gitmo (which is the right decision) could result in some of the detainees being released to act against the U.S.
It is reasonable to believe that any human being held 7 years with no charges in a hell-hole, and probably having been tortured, would hate the country that did it to them and would wish harm on that country. I sure as hell know that I would.
Bush made these men into potential terrorists. He also made their friends and families into potential terrorists.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:55 pmgudin:
If anything, Obama is being too centrist on this. We have indisputable proof that there are criminals in the prior administration on this issue alone. The Justice department’s job is to investigate and prosecute criminals. GET TO IT
In all seriousness, the most PRESSING matter is the state of the economy. When the stimulus package succeeds and Pres. Obama has championed it, it will afford him greater political capitol to spend on pursuing investigations.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:56 pmsometimes I actually believe conservatives will stop being morons, makeing believe the past does not exist
and then I am proven wrong by peple like backup
SOMEHOW, we house hundreds of thousands of Germans, including thousands of Nazi ,SS members in rural America
but then there are some people who don’t think we can manage to keep less than three hundred people in an American prison.
most of those people turned in for their euqicilant of 10 years pay bounty
January 29th, 2009 at 12:57 pm“Hang” tight Yoo, your time at the gallows is coming soon.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:57 pmBad idea, I was appointed designated troll when the action was slow once and I guess I was too good at it…..it didn’t go well and po’ed a lot of folks here……even with others finally coming to my defense some were still mad at me.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:58 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
B-cup is right; there’s a chance that if we give these detainees due process, some of them will slip out of a deserved sentence and possibly mount an attack on our interests. That possibility should be acknowledged.
But the pro-torture camp makes it impractical to even acknowledge truths like that because they operate in a world divorced from reality, where they think it’s possible to guarantee 100% safety, and the way to guarantee it is to torture people we think are bad guys.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
___________
True, and I agree that backup’s assessment is reasonable. However, the really key point that the pro-torture folks miss is that it is precisely because of the decisions people like John Yoo and Dick Cheney and David Addington made on torture that many detainees probably will slip out of a deserved sentence.
Because torture was used, the evidence obtained is inadmissable. Many people may indeed have to be set free, and there’s a small chance that one or two may seek revenge on the United States or our interests abroad, and that they may indeed kill Americans.
To which I say, “bummer.”
Such is the price we pay to live in a free society, governed by laws and principles. We will be attacked by terrorists again, and people will be killed. So what? Life will go on. Our country will go on.
The only way to destroy the United States is to destroy the principles and values that connect us and sustain us. Terrorists can’t take that away, but an overreaching White House easily can.
And so can an underreaching White House that lets its predecessors get away with breaching that sacred covenant, which is why justice is so important.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:59 pmlvdragonlady Says:
What everyone ‘FAILS’ to think about is the consequences.
If we do it, then they can do it.
America, do you want YOUR sons and daughters tortured?
Think about it!!!
That is a very important point that they conveniently ignore. I asked someone who was advocating torture how they would feel if their child was captured and tortured, and those doing the torture said, “if the US can do it, so can we”. He said that it would make him sad but if that’s the price we have to pay to be safe, then so be it”. I then told him that I pity his children and the he was a vile human being. We haven’t spoken since.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:00 pmArrest! Indict! Procesute John Yoo for War Crimes!
January 29th, 2009 at 1:02 pmFor this country’s sake, I hope that John Conyers considers Karl Rove’s testimony to just be the beginning of his investigations.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:03 pmThe United Nation’s Millennium Development Goals aim to cut world hunger in half by 2015 and eliminating it completely by 2025. An estimated $19 billion would eliminate malnutrition and starvation around the world. Our current defense budget is $522 billion, in comparison.
The Borgen Project (borgenproject.org) provides lots of information about this issue.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:04 pm62 ElBruce – I agree with you.
However, I also believe in the power of an outpouring of public opinion. If Berkeley’s dean is beseiged with letters and phone calls excoriating them for keeping “Torturin’ John” Yoo on the faculty, perhaps they might have a few thoughts about his ‘tenure’…
Besides, it does the soul good to speak out – even if it may be ineffective. Too many of us never speak out, because we have become cynical and jaded and believe no one is listening…and maybe it’s time for that to change, eh?
January 29th, 2009 at 1:06 pmThe Yoo moron must maintain his position. As soon as he waffles at all it condemns the Bush administration, which is why he was probably pushed to make these public statements.
Most importantly: why does ANYONE take Yoo’s opinion on torture as relevant and full of experience and proof? As far as I know, Yoo is a teacher and was once an attorney? Am I correct (or close?). I do not recall ever hearing that Yoo was a top level interrogator, nor ever even trained as an interrogator. Has he even ever served in the military at all (I suspect not)?
What is the well of vast personal experience that he draws upon to be the nation’s leading voice (for the Bush years, anyway) on what constitutes torture? How many field manuals on torture was he involved in drafting? How often have CIA interrogators gone to Mr. Yoo for advice and training in torture (or interrogation, for that matter)?
What are his credentials to talk about torture as if he were THE expert? Credentials?
That he studied law means nothing to the issue (though he clearly hates American law — he disdains legal representation, speedy trials, basic rights).
January 29th, 2009 at 1:07 pmGive these guys a little time and plenty of rope to hang themselves.. The more they talk, the more they implicate each other in these war crimes. The day is coming, and they will have to answer.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:07 pmThe Republic of Stupidity Says:
GASP! Ralph!! Are you a sheep in troll’s clothing?
Are you advocating we take turns pretending to be trolls, just so’s we have some way to keep our chops sharp?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Interesting idea who gets the first lobotomy?
January 29th, 2009 at 1:07 pmThe Borgen Project and the Privacy Center sittin’ in a tree…
January 29th, 2009 at 1:08 pmThe real reason torture was used is that it was the
January 29th, 2009 at 1:09 pmonly way that selected detainees would confess to
acts they did not do. The official fantasy story of
what happened on 9-11 needed more strenthening, and
the phony “confessions” obtained under torture are
conviently protected from public review under the
pretense of National Security. A real investigation
would prove that 9-11 was in fact a US covert operation
that involved active participation by elements of both
US intelligence and Military departments as well as
our Whitehouse and Vice President. Some of he
prisoners held in Guantanamo are criminals, but real
investigation will prove that none of them had anything
at all to do with 9-11.
How long would be have to water board Yoo to get him to admit he is a war criminal and that he knows that his stance on torture in indefensible?
January 29th, 2009 at 1:10 pmWhere do the Republicans find these cowards?
January 29th, 2009 at 1:10 pmSome old sage said the one sure thing about life is no one gets out alive.
Yes, the possibility exists that released Gitmo detainees just might go out and do something bad. We increases the odds on this with the torture schtick. But, as HT points out, it is not something we have control of anymore. The damage is done and we screwed up by putting ourselves in an untenable situation. Either we follow our laws and principles or we don’t.
If we do, yeah, it might involve risk but hopefully real intelligence work will prevent further harm. If we don’t, we lose. Our much vaunted system is so much bupkis.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:11 pmBack in Roman days (when torture was socially acceptable) they also used haruspex. These people could read the future from animal entrails, usually chickens.
I think we should find one to do the voodoo that Yoo do so well.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:13 pmThe right wing got all hot under the collar because of Obama’s name and heritage, suggesting that this adversely affected his ability to be a complete American.
Where is the same concern for John Yoo, who was born in South Korea and, presumably, could have been at least partially influenced by that culture?
For me, that’s not a real issue. However, I certainly question the man’s morality!
January 29th, 2009 at 1:15 pmSorry folks, it was over at Politico that I read Obama’s DOJ may have to defend Yoo and Rumsfeld against torture.
Link
January 29th, 2009 at 1:17 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
besides, b-cup is a pain in the ass but he and Keltoi are as close as we come to opposition voices that can actually converse. I like to encourage that.
__________
This sort of thing sounds dangerously close to tossing bread out in the park for pidgeons, ralph, but I understand your reasoning.
We just don’t get those big, huffing, naturally fat bull-goos trolls here anymore. They’re either slightly tamed like b-cup, hit-n-runners like JK, or totally unhinged like Trajan.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:21 pmSo the US has to continue these cases? Last I heard it was legal for the prosecution to stand down due to lack of evidence.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:21 pmHoodathunk Says:
I think we should find one to do the voodoo that Yoo do so well.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
____________
How long have you been waiting for a Yoo thread just so you could make this joke?
January 29th, 2009 at 1:23 pmI know, it is unheard of for anyone to stand up and mensch…my bad, we goofed.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:24 pmAnd to Backup:
Yes, I would bet that most of the prisoners in Gitmo are NOW anti-American. Many would gladly join the fight against the US, and they cannot be blamed. Most of them are likely innocent (if their status as “the worst of the worst” has proof — then trials under normal standards would have been NO problem at all).
You follow morals and principles at ALL times (NO EXCEPTIONS), or they are not your morals or principles. A lot of those rightwingers who are supportive of Yoo’s concepts on torture were also, hypocritically, among those who insisted that one of the great evils of Saddam was that he tortured people. I guess that wasn’t anger — it was envy.
So, yes, many would be harmful (of those released) — but you DO understand the concept of “collateral damage”? Well, it is never welcome, and the collateral damage from Bush’s (and, in truth, the entire rightwing’s) stances on torture are more enemies. The existence of Gitmo has created more enemies, and the release of prisoners may also do so. They are the collateral damage from the gitmo and torture policies.
Well, tough. We HAVE to deal with that, and if we do not return to American principles without exception then we cease to be America.
But the problem cannot be ignored. The best manner to deal with it is to end it swiftly, and deal with any other captured aggressors in a legal and proper manner so that their cases cannot be thrown out of court. The wound on our nation cannot be healed while the infection festers.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:24 pmFred Says:
The Republic of Stupidity Says:
Are you advocating we take turns pretending to be trolls, just so’s we have some way to keep our chops sharp?
Bad idea, I was appointed designated troll when the action was slow once and I guess I was too good at it…
__________
I think I remember that one, Fred. Keeping that in mind, perhaps ralph would like to volunteer… hehehe…
January 29th, 2009 at 1:25 pmhussein toasterhead Says:
Hoodathunk Says:
I think we should find one to do the voodoo that Yoo do so well.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
____________
How long have you been waiting for a Yoo thread just so you could make this joke?
It just came to me. Of course, I did see Blazing Saddles last weekend.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:26 pmYeah! The more op-eds about how bad Obama and his decision are, the more that we can celebrate that OUR prez is doing the right thing
January 29th, 2009 at 1:27 pmSerendipity is a wonderful thing.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:27 pmEugeneDebs Says:
The Republic of Stupidity Says:
Interesting idea who gets the first lobotomy?
I’ll just take a little trephination, please.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:27 pmThe Yoo screed on torture would do the Gestapo under Adopf Hitler proud.
Yoo must now be in full panic mode as he realizes that his crimes will now be revealed in total. He is doing his best to lay the groundwork for his own war crime trial defense which he now knows is coming.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:28 pmEXCUSE ME? What about glezzery and LtDan?
January 29th, 2009 at 1:28 pmShayne Says:
EXCUSE ME? What about glezzery and LtDan?
__________
I’d put them into the “Totally Unhinged” catagory, Shayne.
There’s a certain, endlessly irrational quality about them, especially glezz. When the troll never actually advocated FOR a position, or ever comes close to using a “fact’, there really isn’t much to work w/ there.
glezz is a drama queen… all fluffy, huffy nonsense.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:32 pmI just didn’t want them forgotten TRoS, they work so hard … sniff, sniff.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:33 pmShayne Says:
EXCUSE ME? What about glezzery and LtDan?
January 29th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
____________
I’d put them equally in the last two categories. A combination of hit-n-runner and totally unhinged moron.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:34 pmYoo Hoo, Mr. Yoo! Need we remind you that you, yourself, are a felon for approving something which is against the law?
January 29th, 2009 at 1:35 pmOur little Mr. Yoo missed the boat: He was supposed to be born to be a member of Hitler’s Gestapo instead.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:35 pmThe Republic of Stupidity Says:
Are you advocating we take turns pretending to be trolls, just so’s we have some way to keep our chops sharp?
I tried that once, couldn’t keep it up for more than one post. It takes an extremely strong stomach.
.
Tweedster Says:
In all seriousness, the most PRESSING matter is the state of the economy.
“A President should be able to do more than one thing at a time.” – Barack Obama
.
CageyCretin Says:
Most importantly: why does ANYONE take Yoo’s opinion on torture as relevant and full of experience and proof?
Well it’s relevant because he’s the guy in the DoJ who wrote the legal opinion that the Bush White House could authorize torture, which the Bush White House has since been claiming as their legal cover for authorizing torture.
.
Yankeluh Says:
Where do the Republicans find these cowards?
Typically under the rock known as the “Heritage Foundation.” Although I’m starting to suspect they might be Al-Qaeda moles, since everything they do is for the benefit of Al-Qaeda, and exactly follows their script.
.
Hoodathunk Says:
Back in Roman days (when torture was socially acceptable) they also used haruspex. These people could read the future from animal entrails, usually chickens.
If haruspex were made illegal, Bush would have lost his most valuable tool to gain intelligence on terrorist activity and keep us safe.
/Yoo
.
IgnoranceIsNotBliss Says:
Sorry folks, it was over at Politico that I read Obama’s DOJ may have to defend Yoo and Rumsfeld against torture.
“Your honor, my client may look and act like Mao Zedong with Down Syndrome, but his dog still loves him. Defense rests.”
January 29th, 2009 at 1:35 pmhussein the toasterhead: Because torture was used, the evidence obtained is inadmissable. Many people may indeed have to be set free, and there’s a small chance that one or two may seek revenge on the United States or our interests abroad, and that they may indeed kill Americans.
To which I say, “bummer.”
Such is the price we pay to live in a free society, governed by laws and principles. We will be attacked by terrorists again, and people will be killed. So what? Life will go on. Our country will go on.
The only way to destroy the United States is to destroy the principles and values that connect us and sustain us. Terrorists can’t take that away, but an overreaching White House easily can.
And so can an underreaching White House that lets its predecessors get away with breaching that sacred covenant, which is why justice is so important.
well put. i feel much the same way. acts of terrorism will happen. really the fact that there have been so few acts of major terrorism during the United States is what is truly amazing. there have been 3 in my lifetime and only 2 of them have come from abroad.
there are many countries that suffer a great deal more then most americans can even comprehend. in latin america, africa, the middle east, europe, and asia.
since 9/11 we have used one of the rare instances of terrorism in our own country to abandon many of our countries defining principles and values. that is, frankly, very sad.
Acts of terrorism are horrible and should be condemned by all, but these things happen and how we respond to them is almost more important than the acts themselves.
cheers toasterhead and once again…. very well put, i agree entirely.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:39 pmYou libtards want alqieda to make your pancakes at IHOP!
You think if your nice to tehm they will give us oil!
LMAO!
(how’d I do?)
January 29th, 2009 at 1:41 pmShayne Says:
I just didn’t want them forgotten TRoS, they work so hard … sniff, sniff.
__________
I understand, Shayne. They toil endlessly, and to what reward? Other than the nickel-a-post the RNC pays…
Geez… ***sniff… sniff*** you got me all teared up to now…
Poor li’l fellers…
January 29th, 2009 at 1:44 pmElBruce Says:
CageyCretin Says:
Most importantly: why does ANYONE take Yoo’s opinion on torture as relevant and full of experience and proof?
Well it’s relevant because he’s the guy in the DoJ who wrote the legal opinion that the Bush White House could authorize torture, which the Bush White House has since been claiming as their legal cover for authorizing torture.
Yes, yes, yes. Look… that’s not… what I’m saying is…
o.k. I KNOW he penned the single opinion used to define “torture” for the Bush regime’s interrogators and soldiers. AND that it is a legal opinion given to the president, at the president’s request. etc. Got that.
What i am saying is that Yoo is an attorney (at best). THAT the opinion he wrote is still held up as evidence of some kind by the torture supporters is what I question. What credentials does Yoo have to write an opinion piece on torture? That is what everyone seems to ignore. Yes, the paper was written and it was used, but the wingnuts seem to think that Yoo is the world’s leading authority and voice on torture and interrogation. He has no experience with either.
Just a lawyer. Nothing more. Not an expert in ANYTHING that I am aware of.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:45 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
You libtards want alqieda to make your pancakes at IHOP!
You think if your nice to tehm they will give us oil!
LMAO!
(how’d I do?)
____________
WOW!!! Just, WOW!!! Bravo!! Bravo!!
***TRoS stands and applauds wildly***
Unbelievable realism… and you got the accent, and the reek of rancid grease, down cold.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:45 pmNex thing yull want my sister to marry one. HAHAHA, she already married a camel. LMAO
January 29th, 2009 at 1:47 pmMy cuzin was in jail.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:47 pmWait yer turn, Hoodathunk.
…oh, okay… go ahead.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:49 pmIgnoranceisnotbliss:
Well, it should be comforting that some of them have been advised to get private legal representation, since the Obama people seem to have had a few negative opinions of the whole Yoo version of what constitutes torture. They may be defended, but they cannot be certain they will have a vigorous defense with the Obama team.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:51 pmMr. Yoo, you might wanna call Professor Jonathan Turley, Law Professor, George Washington University . .
Professor Turley has a CLUE for you!
January 29th, 2009 at 1:51 pmcalavzma Says:
well put. i feel much the same way. acts of terrorism will happen. really the fact that there have been so few acts of major terrorism during the United States is what is truly amazing. there have been 3 in my lifetime and only 2 of them have come from abroad.
there are many countries that suffer a great deal more then most americans can even comprehend. in latin america, africa, the middle east, europe, and asia.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
___________
Thank you very much!
I also think it’s important to shift our focus. Although major acts of terror are indeed terrible, it’s the minor acts of terror we should be more worried about: racially- and ethnically-motivated killings are on the rise. White supremacist groups prowled the streets of New Orleans after hurricane Katrina. Hate crimes against Latinos are up 40% since 2001. On election day, as we watched President-Elect Obama speaking in Chicago, hate groups killed an African-American Muslim, put many other minorities in the hospital, and burned several black churches.
Not to mention all the other minor acts of passive terror committed against the American people – the thousands who die every year due to lack of health insurance or unsafe roads, or the hundreds who are sickened or killed by poorly-inspected food-processing plants.
By comparison, the focus only on preventing big-ticket terrorism isn’t just ludicrous. It’s criminal.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:53 pmSorry, Ralph, it looked like fun, in a queasy sort of way. Like a dog rolling in dead fish.
My computer almost shut down in protest.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:54 pmhussein toasterhead Says:
Well put!
Well said!
Send the man a bottle of his favorite beverage.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:57 pmRalphie – HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!
You’re channeling glezzy perfectly! Oh my. :o)
January 29th, 2009 at 1:58 pmRepublic. I didn’t think you were serious. The answer is they would probably refuse the money if you could ensure they wouldn’t have the responsibility for paying it back.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:59 pmRalph.. hoodathunk…
Torture works! It has been around since the beginning of human society and it is still around. It is the only truly effective way of gettin’ infermation from suspects and all. Besides, these are enemy combatants, thet’re not like human Americans. They are evil and criminal and want our destruction. For our security it is best to do whatever is necessary, even if that means we give up or sacrafice a little here and there, and torture is one of those areas. We wouldn’t even have our modern society without the history of trture, which truly coveres every culture and all of history: you cannot find one culture that did not use torture or harsh interrogations, espescially in wartime. And this is war, so to keep us safe — to keep YOU safe — we need to be able to use every possible means to get the information on our terrorist enemies and then we can crush them there before they bring it on to us here.
(whoa…. I’m dizzy…..)
January 29th, 2009 at 2:02 pm“A President should be able to do more than one thing at a time.” – Barack Obama
ROFLMAO, YEAH . .
Anyone see Bubble on the NGC ‘Inside Airforce One’(?) last night. He said with respect to 9/11 . .
‘Aaaah, the equipment wadn’t working, I cuddn’t get anybody on phone, they were all at meetings but I just couldn’t get anybody on the phone, seeee, the equipment was broke’
[chuckle, I can't help it] . .
Duh, hello, Stoooopid, nobody wanted to talk to you, you still don’t get it, do you, dumbya!
January 29th, 2009 at 2:02 pmStop fooling around ralph. LTdan is in the house!
January 29th, 2009 at 2:03 pmI’d loan you my Lysol Cagey but its all gone. But your big words did sort of give you away.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:08 pmWhat a racist sadist.
Why can’t we use the legal interrogation methods yoo? Oh I see where you are coming from. Those “terrorist” are different than the run of mill white terrorist? These brown terrorist are soulless, they don’t have red blood, they don’t shit and that ugly hue makes them inhuman. These “people” don’t have lives, a purpose or a conscience.
Reference your facts, oh great one.
Can we use waterboarding on you to see if you tell the truth? We will ask you irrelevant questions so you will have to lie.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:10 pmTweedster.
Here’s a CIA agent (I assume he was involved with waterboarding):
http://in.ibtimes.com/articles/20071212/waterboarding-torture-cia-al-qaeda.htm
His assessment is that waterboarding worked (probably saved lives), but it is torture, it should be stopped, and America is better than that.
That is a position I believe and agree with.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:11 pmHoodathunk Says:
Dangit! (whose that bangin’ on the piano?…)
No big words. (sigh) I was hoping to win. I guess a lobotomy IS necessary.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:11 pmIf I remember correctly, John Mcain actually gave up the whole defensive line of the Steelers under torture. Now that is real actionable information, if you’re the Arizona Cardinals that is!!!
January 29th, 2009 at 2:14 pmSheesh.
He famously said that only those techniques that inflict pain equivalent to “death, organ failure or permanent damage resulting in a loss of significant body functions” constitute torture
So, non-lethal electrocution is allowable? Needles? Injections of any variety of substances (sulphur? See Russia, cold war era for this wonderful technique)? Scarrification? Mutilation that is cosmetic? Live burial? Burning with hot irons (i.e. branding)? Whipping?
By Yoo’s definition, none of these is “torture”.
And his definition also seems to rule out ANY mental damage as being consequential. So all varieties of mind games, even if they result in insanity, are not torture by Yoo’s definition.
Sad, the level of barbarity some people are willing to crawl into.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:21 pmWhy did the US received the greatest damage compared to the rest of the world? Why was the US “attack” more mechanically than the others?
January 29th, 2009 at 2:21 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
You libtards want alqieda to make your pancakes at IHOP!
You think if your nice to tehm they will give us oil!
LMAO!
(how’d I do?)
Gawd, that’s spooky.
HAHAHAHAHA
January 29th, 2009 at 2:23 pmralph the wonder llama, CageyCretin, nice try gentlemen but you forgot the part where you’re standing in a pool of your own urine. Doh!!!!
January 29th, 2009 at 2:23 pmAn indirect way of torture is to drop tons of illegal willy pete on civilians and have fun watching generations of deformed kids grow up (It affects our finest also.)
Oh shit yoo. I didn’t mean to make you come.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:31 pmLet’s subpoena Yoo and get his testimony under oath about direct authorization of torture by President Bush.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:34 pmLushInterior Says:
As a progressive the sound of a dentists drill is enough to make me spill my guts thats why I much prefer hot cider and croissants at my interrogations. A barcalounger can also be very helpful.
You would probably squeak like mcchimpy for less.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:35 pmYoo needs to be sent back to Seoul where he could run a kim-chee stand. He is totally un-American and is a disgrace to the legal profession and the University of California.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:38 pmOh my! I didn’t realize!
(you don’t think he heard me, do you…?)
January 29th, 2009 at 2:40 pmBackup:
Here’s a CIA agent (I assume he was involved with waterboarding):
http://in.ibtimes.com/ articles/ 20071212/ waterboarding-torture-cia-al-qaeda.htm
His assessment is that waterboarding worked (probably saved lives), but it is torture, it should be stopped, and America is better than that.
That is a position I believe and agree with.
——————————————————
He said the session yielded valuable information and probably helped prevent attacks, but he now believes waterboarding is torture and “Americans are better than that.”
Meaning, he has no idea if the information was useful.
God, backup. That’s pathetic.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:44 pmCageyCretin Says:
What credentials does Yoo have to write an opinion piece on torture? That is what everyone seems to ignore.
I was kind of wondering that myself. This piece isn’t a legal expert talking, it’s a military intelligence expert talking, and Yoo is even less of the latter than he is of the former.
.
CageyCretin Says:
Live burial?
Yoo has explicitly defended live burial. But I believe all of the methods you’ve cited he would not count as “torture” per the definition he submitted to the White House. You’d pretty much actually have to kill someone.
Which they have…
.
LushInterior Says:
As a progressive the sound of a dentists drill is enough to make me spill my guts…
I appreciate your attempt to help us out here, but that’s actually lamer than the fake ones. Are you really trying to suggest that cons have a higher pain tolerance than libs?
January 29th, 2009 at 2:44 pmSo when do we get to hear the sound of the US Marshall cuffs being snapped on YooYoo ??
It would be great if the world saw the “perp” walk of him and Rove being marched to the plane just before it leaves for the Hague…
January 29th, 2009 at 2:46 pmWhile we all know Lushy is trying to be sarcastic here (we can tell because he comes closer to making sense than he ever has before), it’s funny how close to the truth he actually comes with what to him is an absurd statement.
(Thanks to the TPer who first provided this link)
January 29th, 2009 at 2:47 pmBushCo gave up the whole US economic, judicial, and political system as well as its moral ground by the torture of 911 – just what Osama Bin Laden wanted.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:49 pmElBruce Says:
Yoo has explicitly defended live burial. But I believe all of the methods you’ve cited he would not count as “torture” per the definition he submitted to the White House. You’d pretty much actually have to kill someone.
Yep, and that is PRECISELY the definition that the White House wanted him to draft: “we can do whatever we want”.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:50 pmbackup Says:
His assessment is that waterboarding worked (probably saved lives), but it is torture, it should be stopped, and America is better than that.
That is a position I believe and agree with.
= “I agree with you sorta, so don’t attack me, but here’s a citation to the contrary, kinda.”
You’re saying that it’s bad and we shouldn’t do it, which I agree with. But you’re also citing it as being effective, which I do not.
All this guy is saying is that Abu Zubaida changed his attitude quickly and gave the appearance of cooperation. But Kiriakou doesn’t appear to have been in on verifying any of the “information” gained.
Whether or not any information gained via torture was “actionable” or “saved lives” would require seeing what it was. But it’s all classified. Which means we’re expected to trust the word of the same people who said Saddam had WMD’s, among a great many other lies since then. Therefore, my position is that no actionable, lifesaving “intelligence” was gained.
Furthermore, a number of people who have witnessed and conducted many instances of torture say it does not provide any credible intelligence.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:53 pmI think these sickos (W., Dickie, Donnie, and Yoo) oughtta have a choice:
1) Be waterboarded
2) Go on trial for war crimes
Which do you think they’d choose?
January 29th, 2009 at 3:01 pmCageyCretin Says:
Yep, and that is PRECISELY the definition that the White House wanted him to draft: “we can do whatever we want”.
If BushCo’s argument holds up, then the Office of Legal Counsel in the DoJ has the power to override both the Legislative and Judicial branches on behalf of the Executive branch, to give it unlimited power. Which is to say, BushCo’s defense is that America is a fascist dictatorship.
There’s a great catch-22 in this, though. If Yoo is found not guilty, then the only avenue he would have to do so would be a court ruling that the OLC does not have the power to legally authorize the President’s actions. That is to say, if Yoo’s memo isn’t responsible for what happened to Padilla, then the Bush White House must be. After all, responsibility for the crime must have started somewhere. So if Yoo gets off, the entire Bush White House loses the only legal argument they’ve been making to ward off prosecution. But even if Yoo is found guilty, that doesn’t necessarily exonerate BushCo, because they can still be responsible for acting on the memo.
The tough part hasn’t been the legal arguments themselves, it’s been getting someone to make them in the appropriate venue and route them through the court system so that they become precedent. Once that’s done, BushCo goes down like a row of dominoes. Padilla vs. Yoo puts it all on the table and starts that big, ugly ball a-rolling.
So the way I see it, this is a win-win for democracy.
January 29th, 2009 at 3:01 pmLushie; Hate to be the bearer of bad news. Butt, pawns or not, I was just following orders(the Nuremberg defense) is not a valid defense
January 29th, 2009 at 3:05 pmLushInterior Says:
German soldiers were pawns nothing more…not ideologues or jihadies’ or religious fanatics. Nice try but no cookie..
Cookie!
You really are trying to say that German soldiers who committed those acts didn’t subscribe to the radical ideology that had thoroughly infested their society, which was at odds with all ethical standards commonly accepted worldwide? You’re really trying to say that the insane ideology that the Nazi rank-and-file were steeped in daily is a but pale shadow of the insane ideology that the average Al-Qaeda recruit is steeped in today?
Why would you even make such an argument?
January 29th, 2009 at 3:06 pmralph the wonder llama
Well there lies the problem with repugs.
January 29th, 2009 at 3:09 pmYoo is obviously terrified that there will be prosecutions down the line, and that he’ll be in that line. By the way, the Nuremberg Trails established that “following orders” was also no defense. Our own laws (War Crime Act), as well as the treaties we have signed (Geneva Conventions, Convention Against Torture) MUST be applied. If the Obama administration fails to initiate (whether through a commission, the Attorney General or an Independent Investigator), investigations into and prosecution for war crimes, my support for the new administration will be ZIP and I will be a progressive in opposition to them. It doesn’t matter whatever great things they might do; this is, to me, a fundamental issue that determine what the hell this country really stands for and represents. I think this is the last chance too, to get it straightened out. It’s not enough to fix it “going forward.” Try driving a car forward when it’s rear tires are flat. Doesn’t get far, and continues to destroy the structure (the wheels). Not investigating and prosecuting as necessary will only continue to destroy the basic structure (ideals and principles) of this country! I was very disappointed in Podesta’s answer to this in this morning’s video.
January 29th, 2009 at 3:11 pmLushy, you didn’t read the link, did you?
You obviously missed this bit:
“We got more information out of a German general with a game of chess or Ping-Pong than they do today, with their torture,” said Henry Kolm, 90, an MIT physicist who had been assigned to play chess in Germany with Hitler’s deputy, Rudolf Hess.
Yeah Rudolph Hess… he was just a pawn, just a simple “German soldier”, huh?
Gotcha.
January 29th, 2009 at 3:13 pmLushInterior Says:
ralphi I hate to but I have to pop your little bubble…..
That’s a start toward recovery, Lushie. You have admitted that you are a pinhead.
January 29th, 2009 at 3:31 pmLushInterior Says:
Since you are a cowardly, ignorant, pathetic moron who so desperatly craves attention, especially our pity, you do your impersonation of a retarded monkey. Only not quite as bright. You are disgusting. You are a liar. You are a punk. Those are your best qualities from there it goes downhill to brainwashed, ignorant and the most pathetic creature on the internet. PLEASE stop humiliating yourself with these sickeningly stupid posts. We get it you are retarded. You THINK you are funny when actually you are sadly pathetic. Do yourself a favor and stop embarassing yourself so piteously. You are the equvilent of the stupid uncle who when he shows up at a picnic everyone says oh no not Uncle LushMoron again. Our pity has run dry now you are just monumentally, sickeningly pitiful
January 29th, 2009 at 3:37 pmLushInterior Says:
You cant burst bubbles. You are stupid, retarded and pathetic. You werent under the delusion that anyone takes ANYTHING you post seriously were you? That ship sailed long ago as you played everyone to pity you for your abject stupidity
January 29th, 2009 at 3:40 pmLets get this this Yoo guy in the news somehow, if possible with the MSM in bed with him.
January 29th, 2009 at 3:43 pmLushInterior Says:
ralphi I hate to but I have to pop your little bubble…..German soldiers were pawns nothing more…not ideologues or jihadies’ or religious fanatics. Nice try but no cookie.
So the average German just has this innate desire to stick people in a microwave? Oh wait, Hitler bred clones of himself to do the dirty deeds.
Sorry, pup, but the ‘following orders defense’ has already been serious debunked. It is a sad fact that there are humans on this planet, from all cultures, who do follow orders even when they should know better.
January 29th, 2009 at 4:00 pmWe have many, many prisons in the United States . .
We have top of the line SUPERMAX PRISONS, lock-up 24/7, [watch LOCK-UP on MSNBC]located in obscure locations, just motels nearby . .
What is your problem with closing Gitmo, Mr. Woo? Torture on American soil not a good idea, ya think?
January 29th, 2009 at 4:22 pmAnd as a veteran I can say it is the “duty” of every American service person to question illegal orders. Even disobey them. The oath is to defend the Constitution.
Is it the same in our intelligence agencies? I don’t know.
January 29th, 2009 at 4:27 pmThere’s one more important point to be made.
WHEN ONE HUMAN IS TORTURED, TWO PEOPLE SUFFER !
This is something that is not talked about often enough.
TORURING A FELLOW HUMAN, CAUSES IMMENSE PSYCHOLOGICAL PAIN TO
January 29th, 2009 at 4:51 pmTHE TORTURER !
I’m sure there are people that get off on this sort thing as
has been mentioned, but most people could not handle the
tremendous anxiety of such a situation. I recall not too long
ago, that one interrogator killed herself, rather than
continue to cause pain and anguish to other human beings.
Yes, Mathazar, I’m glad you brought up the torturers. Should’t there be some worry about torturers walking among the general population?
But what I really want to say is NEGROPONTE. When I heard he was being sent to Iraq, I thought it would just be a matter of time before groups of people started showing up on the streets with bullet or drill holes in the backs of their heads, and their hands tied behind their backs. And they did. Death squads torture and murder.
Don’t forget Abu Graib. I suspect that torture is not so much a way of getting information, as a way to strike fear into the hearts of a population that is not afraid to die. It’s a counter-terrorist terrorist tactic.
January 29th, 2009 at 5:42 pmMr. Yoo should forward his resume to Kim Jung-Il over at the Republic of North Korea right away. There’s no reason for him to hang around here wasting his “talent”.
January 29th, 2009 at 5:48 pmThe Right Wing has always had a prediliction toward sado-masochistic practices. That’s what holds the attention when the topic of torture comes up — a combination of the strong father figure and the urge for revenge against that figure.
A favorite strategy used by the Right Wingers to control the masses of the population is the fear of an outside threat; hence the gambit of a war on terror that pits the proverbial us v. them.
Divide and conquer is the name of the game. Divide the working classes: Latino-American v. Black Americans v. WASP Americans v. immigrants, both legal and undocumented. Divide Americans and Western Europeans v. Islamic cultures via the threat of terrorism.
Ideologues use psychological ploys to dehumanize the “enemy” and encourage their followers to use violence against the perceived threat. The use of torture by their captures only enhances this psychological conditioning, convincing them what they were brainwashed to believe is, in fact, true.
Seems to me, treating all humans with the rights and respect traditionally accepted as “Constitutional” until the ned-Con puppet george w. bush was installed in the White House would create a state of cognitive dissonance in those who had been brain-washed into believing that all blue-eyed Westerners are devils and enemies.
But instead of going along with this line of reasoning, or listening to professional intelligence officers who know that interrogation techniques based on terror and pain just don’t work, we’re supposed to listen to this right wing war criminal telling us to be afraid? Give me a break!
January 29th, 2009 at 6:46 pmRobert M. Says:
Ideologues use psychological ploys to dehumanize the “enemy” and encourage their followers to use violence against the perceived threat. The use of torture by their captures only enhances this psychological conditioning, convincing them what they were brainwashed to believe is, in fact, true.
This is exactly what the Nazis did in their campaign against the Jews in Europe.
January 29th, 2009 at 7:07 pmPut these traitor, war criminals in jail!
January 29th, 2009 at 7:08 pmMy hat is off to you, Yoo. I didn’t think that ANYTHING could possibly lower my opinion of BushCo still further. May the nightmares of your victims and would-be victims possess your soul continually. Wolverines, among the most vicious of predators, make you look good. So do hyenas and jackals: they’re NATURAL predators. You’re an UNnatural one. Your “reasoning” ranks you well below most of the sexually violent predators who populate the prisons and state hospitals of California. Filth.
January 29th, 2009 at 7:34 pmD’ya think that the Taliban would like us to ship Yoo over for a nice, long visit????? I’ll chip in on the airfare.
January 29th, 2009 at 7:34 pmraynman Says:
Every prisoner will have the right to a lawyer (which they will surely demand), the right to remain silent, and the right to a speedy trial.
It scares me that a supposedly educated person in the United States thinks that is a bad thing
Raynman, who ever said that he was educated? He’s INDOCTRINATED.l There’s a difference, and he’s living proof.
January 29th, 2009 at 7:36 pmI could accept an exception to the ban in order to torture the whole truth out of John Yoo.
January 29th, 2009 at 7:36 pmelbruce says I am appalled that UC Berkeley actually cuts this guy a paycheck. To teach “law,” no less. Not as a janitor or anything reasonable like that.
Thanks did NOT know that Berkeley employed him. It’s letter-writing time!
January 29th, 2009 at 7:37 pmOops. “Thanks; I did not know. . . “
January 29th, 2009 at 7:38 pmnanlichi Says:
Let’s hope this statement about Bush’s authorization of waterboarding three times shows up as evidence in the War Crimes trial.
“He Approved Torture” should be engraved on the Chimp’s gravestone. The sooner the better.
And let’s have “He approved Bush” engraved on Yoo’s stone. . . if someone doesn’t bury him alive in the fecal matter that he’s dishing out.
January 29th, 2009 at 7:39 pmUncle Ho Says:
I move that Yoo be tortured to see if he thinks it’s not torture.
Anybody second the motion?
Count me in! Could I buy some votes as the repugs do?
January 29th, 2009 at 7:42 pmThe Republic of Stupidity Says:
kuvasz Says:
it was my understanding from the comments of the actual persons who did the torturing that the information gained from torturing that the information was of no value.
____________
This disturbing little factoid has been mentioned repeatedly, and ignored repeatedly by the proponents of torture, which makes me wonder if they’re not, huh, “motivated” by something other than security issues.
Now, now; temper, temper. How could you POSSIBLY think that ANY dedicated “patriot” would be motivated by ANYTHING other than Mom, apple pie, and the GOP?????????????????
January 29th, 2009 at 7:44 pm.
Dear John Yoo,
What part of “above the law” is legal?
.
January 29th, 2009 at 9:25 pm.
Daer John Yoo,
Thank you for showing America that all it takes to usurp the Rule of Law is an “eager to please” attorney to give his “OPINION” as to why breaking the law is legal. We should all learn from your great and shining example, that all it takes to become a career criminal is a note from my attorney that says that breaking the law when it suits me, is legal.
Thank You,
America.
.
January 29th, 2009 at 9:30 pmWhy do these people keep pretending like there’s never been any successful interrogation without torture? There are probably of thousands of investigators all over the country who are getting information from suspects right now without using torture.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:04 amHoodathunk Says:
I think we should find one to do the voodoo that Yoo do so well.
January 29th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
Genius… :-D
January 30th, 2009 at 12:14 amRobert M.
If you are truthful you have to admit people of color have a legitimate problem with chimpy and his gang and the 25%ers. They have just cause.
This is why I know that President Obama will right the wrongs. He will handle his vision while his cabinet will handle the past corruption.
The torture is the straw. It’s bigger than anyone thought.
January 30th, 2009 at 3:47 amThis is a disgusting display of a man that portrays himself actually doing something so reprehensibly immoral, that he considers himself qualified to cast his ideological absolutes on the rest of Americans as if we are somehow lesser.
As a Republican, I did not hear John Yoo use “toture in the name of God and religion”.
Matter of fact, has anyone heard any of the Religious rights leadership(s) encouraging torture in the name of their Lord?
Are they leaving their moral compass (God) out of the torture embracing and self justifications?
Didn’t they torture Jesus?
What info did Jesus provide? Did torture work on him?
Why didn’t they torture Saddam ?
There is a maddness to republican methodology which needs treatment for which there are no tretment facilities nor curing procedures to undertake. Rush has tried self medicating his condition with Oxicodone and viagra to no avail.
January 30th, 2009 at 4:05 amTorture is Mr. Yoo’s forte.
Reading all of your entries is heart-breaking.
But torture is what Mr. Yoo is all about and all he’ll ever be about. How sad for his family. Friends, I can’t imagine he has any. He’s a twisted creep that no one would want to associate with. . . a little TLC in Crawford? Bush has disowned you. Creepy dude, angry because no one likes him, wants to hurt humanity.
Torture. Don’t give the guy a gun. What a sick disturbed life. Unimaginable.
Mr. Yoo, when you are in the pen for crimes against humanity, think Jeffery Dahmer. He wasn’t too popular either.
January 30th, 2009 at 7:36 amI’m not suicidal or particularly brave, but I’d take my chances with death before I’d turn to Yoo to protect my freedom.
Freedom may require the ultimate sacrifice, but torture is a coward’s sacrifice of freedom.
January 30th, 2009 at 7:50 amRobt,
Honestly, I raised holy hell at SMU, the Administration, Theology School and Law School to oppose Bush’s grand design to put a “Think Tank”, Presidential Library and Museum on campus. It’s a Methodist University . . . he has committed crimes against humanity . . . and so on. Yes, the Methodist Church is up in arms about it but basically, I was told, Too Bad.
Alums have returned their diplomas and expressed outrage.
Torture is abhorrant and is not being tolerated well, so don’t think that outrage isn’t being expressed, it simply isn’t being acknowledged.
January 30th, 2009 at 7:59 amFrench Hugenauts were hung by the thousands because Catholics decided all people who were not Catholic were heretics. Protestants are their progeny. Burning and lynching Protestants did not change their values, but it did have an impact.
Our founding fathers were among their progeny and recognized inalienable human rights, including the right not to be subjected to cruel and unusual punishment and to a trial by a jury of your peers.
Mr. Yoo, you may have a law degree, but do you have the least conception of the spirit of the law? I don’t think you do.
Protestants did bad things to Catholics too.
But to Gitmo . . . some bad guys? Definitely. But was every inmate detained based upon probable cause, or were some arrested because they looked Iraqi, had guns and practiced Islam? It’s a war and so time is crucial and mistakes are expected, but, only a trial, not torture, will tell.
January 30th, 2009 at 8:36 amLet us listen, to see if we can really hear what YOO and the other torturers are REALLY saying.
“Eliminating the Bush system will mean that we will get no more information from captured al Qaeda terrorists. Every prisoner will have the right to a lawyer (which they will surely demand), the right to remain silent, and the right to a speedy trial.
They are saying they think the American system of Jursice Prudence sucks. They are ANTI-AMERICANS. How much more clear does it have to be laid out for all to hear how these criminals are truly TRAITORS.
January 30th, 2009 at 8:43 amHow can you not hear that??? I am lost here. They are more than traitors, they are the enemy from within our forefathers warned us about.
They MUST be hung for all Americans to see. Enmasse or individually, it doesn’t matter, but bring them to justice, they way they HATE IT. With “the right to a lawyer (which they will surely demand), the right to remain silent, and the right to a speedy trial.”
YES, YES, YES, DO IT NOW!!!!!
Silly fascists and thier penchant for inhumanity.
Why is this war crimnal free?
January 30th, 2009 at 10:35 amThe S&M aspect of the bush crime family is just another link between them and their NAZI origins.
IMO, races of color and citizens of third world countries have many legitimate complaints about blue-eyed Westerners who have been exploiting them and their countries for far too long. And this is coming from a blue-eyed Caucasian; I just hadn’t realized how badly things were, because I grew up under the propaganda that left out the negative aspects of U.S. foreign policy from the history books.
Even so, when it comes down to one-on-one interactions between individual citizens from the U.S. and foreign nations, most of those interactions would be amicable and even friendly, unless the U.S. participant happened to be a member of the ruling class enforcing corporate policy – then all bets are off. And historically, the U.S. military has always been used to enforce policies that benefitted American corporations.
As for john yoo, it’s easy to take a lesson. Go rent a copy of the Spencer Tracy movie “Judgment At Nuermberg.” Skip to the scene where Tracy proclaims his judgment of the German judge played by Burt Lancaster. For in the drama we have just lived through, john yoo is surely playing the role Lancaster did in that movie.
Lancaster’s excuse was that by going along with the political dictates of the NAZI regime, he would be in a position to play advocate for individuals who got caught up in the feeding frenzy of mob psychology fostered by the NAZI’s. john yoo’s excuse seems to be that it’s needful to ignore the Constitution in order to “protect the citizens” of the U.S.
I have still to come across the wording in the Constitution that says public safety trumps the rights of each and every human being who falls within the jurisdiction of the U.S. government, its agencies and officers. The Constitution does not specify that the Bill of Rights applies only to U.S. Citizens. In practice, when our government cares to abide by the rule of law, it often works out that way, because the U.S. government can only enforce its policies on Citizens and Residents of U.S. territority.
Every person who is given authority to act on behalf of the U.S. government takes an oath to uphold, first and foremost, the Constitution. Once that portion of the oath is broken, the rest doesn’t matter, because the officer has become a renegade and no longer retains the authority. When any federal office-holder violates their oath, the only rightful course of action is impeachment and removal from office. When a U.S. soldier violates the oath they take upon induction into the armed forces, they are subject to the UCMJ.
By writing his opinions, yoo became a traitor to the U.S., by virtue of his attempt to subvert the Constitution and supplant it with another set of rules devised to enable the illegal policies contemplated by the administration. We can only surmise the payoff yoo received for vomitting out his crackpot theories. But we can offer judgment based on his words, that he fails to comprehend American morals, values, and traditions, and that he does not understand Constitutional law.
The faculty and students at the University of Berkeley protested yoo’s return to teaching once he left Washington D.C. The Board of Governors and the administration at the School of Law refused to heed their concerns. They chose to hide behind the concept of “free speech,” which they declared yoo’s opinions delivered when he was on leave of absence from the University to have been. But then, the Board of Governors does not represent the People of the State of California. They usually hold to a hard-line conservative point of view.
I did hear that the Bar Association was attempting to do something about pulling his membership. But I don’t know where that stands.
Personally, I believe he and the rest of the bush administration needs to take up residence at Guantanamo Bay once the inmates presently detained there illegally have been freed.
January 30th, 2009 at 3:42 pmfaa
porno izle
January 30th, 2009 at 5:07 pmerotik videolar
Those poor terrorists, maybe they could live in Obama’s neighborhood in Chicago? They would fit right in…..
January 31st, 2009 at 7:34 amYOO REALIZES THE ENEMY & IT’S POTENTIAL!!!
You pansies don’t… they just assume kill you ‘infidels’. When u are all saying “Allah is the one” even if you don’t truly believe it then remember to eat your words that most of u typed here! Torture is for al Qaeda members not the innocent civilians.
Watch a documentation called OBSESSION & perhaps one will realize how barbaric, focused, trained, disiplined & mentally much stronger than you all. We need torture techniques because this is all they understand.
GANGS (al Qaeda) ACHIEVE A LOT OF POWER THROUGH VIOLENCE & intimidation.
January 31st, 2009 at 10:10 amThis guy and the rest should be in prison. To think he teaches at Berkeley is disgusting!
January 31st, 2009 at 10:29 amBush must be arrested for torture.
Submitted by Andrew Yu-Jen Wang
B.S., Summa Cum Laude, 1996
Messiah College, Grantham, PA
Lower Merion High School, Ardmore, PA, 1993
“GEORGE W. BUSH IS THE WORST PRESIDENT IN U.S. HISTORY” BLOG OF ANDREW YU-JEN WANG
ONLINE ANTI-BUSH SCHOLASTIC RESEARCH: LISTING OF MAJOR ISSUES
http://andrewyu-jenwang.blogspot.com/2008/10/bush-is-worst-president-in-american.html
February 1st, 2009 at 3:53 am