Nelson ‘Undecided’ On Recovery Plan: ‘I Don’t Even Know How Many Democrats Will Vote For It As It Stands’
Nelson ‘Undecided’ On Recovery Plan: ‘I Don’t Even Know How Many Democrats Will Vote For It As It Stands’
On Wednesday, when the House voted 244 – 188 to approve the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, 11 Democrats joined with the entire Republican caucus in voting against the bill. Now, as the stimulus debate moves to the Senate, it appears that some Democratic senators are challenging the Obama administration’s stimulus plans as well.
The Washington Post reported this morning that Sen. Ben Nelson (D-NE) “remains undecided about the bill“:
Sen. Ben Nelson (D-Neb.), who remains undecided about the bill, said he opposes money going to research projects at the National Institutes of Health and about $13 billion for Pell grants that help students pay for college. Nelson says the measures are worthy but do not belong in legislation designed to stimulate the economy.
Despite what Nelson says, both increased NIH funding and money for Pell grants are actually a wise use of stimulus dollars.
According to Fox News, Nelson convened a meeting in his Senate office today with Senate Republicans and some Democrats who are seeking “common ground on how they can improve the $819 billion economic stimulus bill.” Nelson’s meeting included Sen. Susan Collins (R-ME), Sen. Bob Corker (R-TN), Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-MO), Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-MN) and Sen. Mark Warner (D-VA).
In an interview with Fox News after the meeting, Nelson said he didn’t know how many Democrats, let alone Republicans, would vote for the stimulus plan “as it stands today”:
HEMMER: No Republicans voted for this measure in the House. Do you know of any Republicans on the Senate side that will vote yes as it stands today?
NELSON: I don’t know, I don’t even know how many Democrats will vote for it as it stands today because a lot of my colleagues are not decided. They’re undecided on the bill as it is right now. Fortunately, we don’t have to take the vote on it right now. We have an opportunity to make some improvements.
Watch it:
Nelson emphasized to Hemmer that he’s not “as concerned” about the size of the bill, but that some of “the actual ingredients within the program” were only “marginally stimulative.” He added that it was “a good sign” that “additional infrastructure pieces to the program” were being considered.
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He added that it was “a good sign” that “additional infrastructure pieces to the program” were being considered.
We need an up or down vote as it stands since we already have the version approved by the House. We don’t need to waste time passing a different Senate version and then trying to pass a reconciliation version. If you want additional infrastructure (which I would support), then introduce another bill for consideration.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:58 am“Sen. Ben Nelson (D-Neb.), who remains undecided about the bill, said he opposes money going to research projects at the National Institutes of Health and about $13 billion for Pell grants that help students pay for college. Nelson says the measures are worthy but do not belong in legislation designed to stimulate the economy.”
I think the Senator has a point. It is certainly worth discussing, at any rate, instead of rushing to approve such a huge spending bill. Infrastructure is traditionally roads, schools, bridges, sewer systems, even power grids. They are tangible physical improvements. Human Resources are also worthwhile, but I see no reason for them to be bundled into one monster bill like the House passed. Why can’t these items be addressed seperately?
January 30th, 2009 at 12:00 pmMaybe the Democrats should do like the members of the Rush Limpballs Party, and say they won’t vote for the bill until more infrastructure spending is included.
Limpballs/Bible Spice 2012!
January 30th, 2009 at 12:07 pmNot a big fan of quick action, are ya, Keltoi?
January 30th, 2009 at 12:07 pmIn that case Keltoi, I fail to see how a corporate tax cut can be considered a ‘tangible physical improvement’… should they also be removed for later consideration?
January 30th, 2009 at 12:10 pmLets give Wall Street another 350 billion and watch how many jobs they dont create.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:11 pmI also am not sure how this will help –
Will someone who lost their job in Michigan, who has a house there be able to move to get a job where the money is supposed to create jobs?
If some infrastructure funding is on some bridge or something, won’t the company doing that work just hire the people it already works with?
Wish I knew more about how they are doing this stuff, the government sometimes doesn’t think these things thru so well…or as in Bush did not think about it at all.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:12 pmKeltoi. You’re right on. The bipartisanship that everyone is always talking about – this is it. Nelson and others who want to be more deliberate aren’t thinking about party, they are thinking about the people. They are trying to ensure that the will of the people that have sent them to Washington is being met.
Obama is brilliant. But, he’s not perfect. He said he was open to other ideas. Instead of castigating those who want to slow down – maybe we should appreciate their determination to get it right. I think the Republican unity on the issue is disingenuous, because they realize it doesn’t really matter. The fact that some Democrats won’t just blindly agree, is encouraging, and it seems to me, more the way it should be.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:12 pmHow do Pell grants and research funding not help stimulate the economy?
January 30th, 2009 at 12:13 pmDon’t colleges and research facilities typically pay the people who work there?
While infrastructure spending would actually be useful, mostly for contruction and engineering firms, we still have educated people out of work and a research project would hire the nerds to do something..read alot of papers..do some slide ruley things..maybe hire some wall street quants..
January 30th, 2009 at 12:13 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
Not a big fan of quick action, are ya, Keltoi?
Not necessarily. I say let every infrastructure budget item that will be expended in 18 months be approved right away. Right away.
Then, take the time to remove the pork. Let there be an open debate about how we want to spend our money. We lost $350 billion to the Black Hole of Paulson, there is still another 350 out there, no one seems to know just what we are doing with it. That bill, like this one, was opposed by the R’s and was passed in an environment of hysteria. I think breaking it into chunks and passing them more methodically just makes sense. The thing is 627 pages and weighs in at almost 900 billion – that is 1.2 billion dollars of spending per page!
The rush to pass this makes me wonder if it isn’t an attempt at a fait accompli. A bit slower and a bit more deliberate process would be preferable. I am glad Sen. Nelson is at least raising the issue. When the R’s raise it they are simply dismissed as obstructionist.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:14 pmWell, this isn’t merely expanding college funding, but plugging the gap created by the credit crisis, cut in state government appropriations, shrinking endowments and laid-off parents. By ensuring that students can attend college worry-free, that frees up jobs that fewer students would have to work. Just one way of looking at it.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:14 pmI’m wondering if some of these politicians in both the House and in the Senate are just trying to get lots of media attention while they “agonize” over the decision of whether or not to support Obama’s recovery plan. Why weren’t they agonizing over what was going on during the past eight years? I think they’re fence-sitters who aren’t capable of being decisive. They’re behaving as though they want the Repubs or the Repub-lites to tell them what to do.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:16 pmB-cup, the only flaw in your reasoning is that you assume the Republicans (or conservative Democrats, for that matter) have any credibility on the economy or any ideas to offer that haven’t been tried already.
Obama gave bipartisanship a shot — amended his proposal to accommodate Republican concerns — and Republicans gave him zero votes.
It’s not like tax cuts have worked to deliver the robust economy that Dubya promised eight years ago. So why should we continue to try failed policies just to pacify a particularly cantankerous minority simply for the sake of a bipartisanship that doesn’t exist?
January 30th, 2009 at 12:17 pmHow do Pell grants and research funding not help stimulate the economy?
Don’t colleges and research facilities typically pay the people who work there?
What’s more- research and education will lead to economic benefits that we cannot even begin to quantify at the moment because they are unknown… look at the investment in Science Education and Pure Research during the Space Race…
January 30th, 2009 at 12:17 pmNo one can deny that plastics, computers and even Velcro have been good for the U.S. economy but none of those developments would have been possible without that investment…
Keltoi Says: When the R’s raise it they are simply dismissed as obstructionist.
Only because they are admitted, proven obstructionists.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:18 pmbelac Says:
In that case Keltoi, I fail to see how a corporate tax cut can be considered a ‘tangible physical improvement’… should they also be removed for later consideration?
Yes! That was the supposed bone that was thrown to the R’s, but that too should be handled under the column of tax policy.
Infrastructure, espcecially for green power improvements and grid developement, fast track that all day long. But the current bill as passed by the House – too big, too fast, not enough oversight and evaluation. Rahm Emanueal said at the outset that you can’t waste the opportunities presented by a crisis: I feel like this current bill is being driven more by politics than economics and the price tag is just too high.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:19 pmSome fair points, Keltoi, but the black hole of Paulsen, while opposed by congressional Rs was pushed by a Republican administration and one of the staunchest Republican constituencies — the financial sector — using, as you say panic as a motivator. It’s to the Democrats’ shame that they bought that pig in a poke, but they believed what they were told by the administration, much like Iraq.
In this case, while there certainly is going to be a lot of pork, it doesn’t mean that pork will not stimulate the economy. The judgments of some erstwhile responsible people, like Sen. Nelson, for example, leads me to distrust their conception of what stimulates or does not stimulate the economy. They seem to view it from such a narrow prism that they are unlikely to craft an effective program. Something like this needs a strong singular vision, and that vision needs to come from the president.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:27 pmThe Washington Post reported this morning that Sen. Ben Nelson (D-NE) “remains undecided about the bill“
So lets vote against it and hand Obama a crushing defeat to start off his administraion and a victory for the Limbaugh/Rethuglicans, right Nelson? You dipstick.
Just goes to show you what a weak leader Harry Reid is letting these republicrats threaten to scuttle the ship while the Republicans line up 100% behind their leaders on straight partyline votes.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:31 pmThey should take out the Corporate Tax Cuts – they DO NOT create jobs.
-Corporation gets tax cuts
-they have inventory that has not been selling because of recession
-they don’t hire people when they have inventory
-the public is scared and is cutting back on spending
-Corporation lays off people because people aren’t buying
-vicious cycle into depression
January 30th, 2009 at 12:36 pmWell, let’s see: My job went away due to cuts in funding for prostate cancer research so Mr Nelson, fully funding science would certainly stimulate my economic outlook. It must be tough, making over $200,000 a year and bloviating on and on about how irrelevant my job and my livelihood is….
January 30th, 2009 at 12:37 pmGiving credit where credit is due, Keltoi’s arguments make sense to me.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:39 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
The judgments of some erstwhile responsible people, like Sen. Nelson, for example, leads me to distrust their conception of what stimulates or does not stimulate the economy.
My distrust on this point is virtually universal. That being the case, slower is better. The interest alone on this baby is going to run into the hundreds of billions by its supposed time of being paid off in 2020.
They seem to view it from such a narrow prism that they are unlikely to craft an effective program. Something like this needs a strong singular vision, and that vision needs to come from the president.
Well…gee. Clearly, he won, and elections have consequences, but is our President’s resume such that we believe his vision is so infallible we have to rush to pass this bill? Especially since I think it is more the work of Nancy Pelosi than it is of Obama’s?
I am not necessarily against any provisions of the bill. I am against the obviously good and stimulative provisions being held hostage by more questionable provisions. I’d like to see it broke into tiers, top tier being quick, shovel ready items while other items that are slower or less obviously stimulative get reviewed. That would be true bi-partisanship and would likely garner Senatorial Republican votes like O. says he wants. Good policy, good politics.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:40 pmUnless the GOP is bargaining in good faith (which they’re not), don’t negotiate with them.
The entire House voted no, despite concessions to them.
If the GOP Senators have no intention of voting for the bill, don’t bother with them.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:42 pmMartial Law!
Crisis!
Bailout investment banks!
I dont think Rahm invented crisis opportunity…
January 30th, 2009 at 12:43 pmIF the economy wasn’t in such precarious shape and IF the last bailout hadn’t just dumped dollars in the dumpster and IF we were looking at doing more of the same with this bill, I’d say, yeah, prudence would be a great thing.
But since this package is not just tossing good money after bad and actually focusing on getting it out into the hands of people who might do something with it besides hoard it, go for it.
Its time to quit thinking that rich people paying their pool boys and buying Armani suits is a good way of getting money on the streets.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:46 pmKeltoi, kepp your eyes straight ahead unless you enjoy watching the economy ’slowly’ strangle and the middle class ’slowly’ lose their homes and pensions while the rich ’slowly’ dole out a few dollars.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:47 pmralph. I’m not suggesting some kind of bipartisanship to give failed Republicans a voice.
This thread highlights a Democrat that has questions.
Here’s Senator Robert Byrd’s speech from the Senate floor on the run up to war in Iraq. I know you’ve read it. It is remarkable how prescient he was:
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0212-07.htm
Obama has shown great judgement. He is not George Bush. We should trust him, but do we really want to discourage debate or disagreement on his decisions? Do we just want to be silent and hope that he alone will make only wise decisions to address our problems – or do we want to encourage those other 535 representatives of the people to ensure those decisions are deliberate and remain in our best interests?
January 30th, 2009 at 12:48 pmIf the bill doesn’t include enough infrastructure spending, by all means ramp it up. If the Republicans would do more of what the dems are doing–tallying the needs of their respective districts and states and backing them against economic science–there would be no bickering and this bill would sail through. I’m tired of republicans turning every major piece of legislation into a test of wills for the sake of sticking to their principles.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:49 pmbackup Says:
They are trying to ensure that the will of the people that have sent them to Washington is being met.
_________
Ya mean, like when the GOOPers, and dumb-dumbs like Nelson, rubber-stamped every last crappy piece of legislation Botch wanted for years on end, which is what helped push us into to this horrific mess in the first place?
If these @ssclowns were really “trying to ensure that the will of the people”, they’d start investigating BotchCo…
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/01/22/torture/
“Even more surprisingly for spouters of conventional wisdom, a majority of Americans (50-47%) believe that the Obama administration should investigate whether the Bush administration’s treatment of detainees was illegal. ”
“The notion that Bush officials shouldn’t be criminally investigated is about as close to a lockstep consensus among political and media elites as it gets, and yet, still, a majority of Americans favor such investigations.”
Woohoo!!! Will of the people and all!!!
What you say, b-cup?
January 30th, 2009 at 12:51 pmLove how FuxNews brings on Nelson the DINO for the “Democrat” perspective.
Flare for Imbalance.
PEACE
January 30th, 2009 at 12:54 pmI didn’t say that, and you know it. Don’t be a dick, Keltoi.
I do think that prompt delivery of aid to the economy is critical, as I see things crumbling all around me here by the day.
I’ve heard what Obama has said about the state of the economy, and I’ve heard what ben Nelson has said and I’ve heard what Republicans have said.
Based on that evidence, yes, I trust Obama more than most of those who oppose his plan or want to slow it down.
I liken this situation to a Hollywood movie. In general, the best films are made when a single vision drives the production, from the script through filming through post.Generally, crappy films are spawned when the studio farms the script out to a committee of writers and every executive wants his fingerprints on the story too. that’s what I see happening here, too.
We’re gonna get a crappy “feel-good” family film that no one wants to see, instead of challenging, emotionally satisfying drama that becomes a cultural touchstone for a generation.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:55 pmKeltoi Says:
That would be true bi-partisanship and would likely garner Senatorial Republican votes like O. says he wants. Good policy, good politics.
___________
Garner Senatorial Republican votes? What are they going to vote to do – drop trou, bend over, and grab their ankles?
I think we already KNOW what we can expect from the GOOP for the next EIGHT years. Their de facto leader (Limbaugh) has already given them their marching orders… or bending and grabbing orders.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:55 pmNobody could ever have imagined that BlueDawg Dims would crop up to throw a spanner in the works of Obamatude, now could they?
January 30th, 2009 at 12:56 pmB-cup, what do you mean by “bipartisanship” if you’re not talking about giving Republicans a voice?
I’m confused by your definition of the term.
As I noted, conservative Democrats are still pretty effin’ conservative. And conservative policies are what have gotten us into this mess.
Do we want to discourage debate or discussion? No. But that doesn’t mean entertaining ideas that have already failed us, just to pacify a voting block that grows more irrelevant by the week.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:00 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
I liken this situation to a Hollywood movie.
____________
Going w/ your film analogy, would that make the Botch Years some sort of cut-rate slasher flick? Which part did Cheney play… the psycho-killer in the hockey mask?
January 30th, 2009 at 1:01 pmI think we already KNOW what we can expect from the GOOP for the next EIGHT years. Their de facto leader (Limbaugh) has already given them their marching orders… or bending and grabbing orders.
January 30th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
if the economic crisis is not showing signs of visibly reversing by the 2010 elections, Prez.O’s a one-termer.
Thats why the pukes are so obstinate and obstructive now.
in 18 months, the people, under the gentle tutelage of the CorPRopagandist press, will have forgotten all about the obstructionism, and will be being schooled in the failures of the Administration. If the Dims lose many seats in ‘10, he’s cooked.
NPR JUST ANNOUNCED: “The economy is officially broken!”
January 30th, 2009 at 1:01 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
——————————————————————————–
Keltoi Says:
Well…gee. Clearly, he won, and elections have consequences, but is our President’s resume such that we believe his vision is so infallible we have to rush to pass this bill?
I didn’t say that, and you know it. Don’t be a dick, Keltoi.
I am a Troll. I try not to be a dick. Sorry if I took what you said out of context.
Your movie analogy is a good one, but bad movies and bad policies can also arise from a single unitary vision. Besides, I really do not think this current bill can be fairly said to be Obama’s more than the Democratic Mandarins in the House. Obama publicly pressured the House to get rid of the contraception thing – that tells me there is probably other stuff in there he doesn’t approve of.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:02 pmU.S. GDP Falls At 3.8 Percent Pace In 4th Quarter
NPR.org, January 30, 2009 · The U.S. economy shrank at an annual rate of 3.8 percent in the last three months of 2008 as factory production ground down, department stores slashed prices and virtually every sector of the economy bled jobs, the Commerce Department reported Friday.
The quarterly calculation on gross domestic product was the worst since the first quarter of 1982, when the economy contracted by 6.4 percent amid another recession.
_____________
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=100052362
Woohoo!!! Another milestone, or mebbe a millstone, for Botch!!!
He’s Number Worst! He’s Number Worst!
January 30th, 2009 at 1:06 pmRepublic. If your argument is that progressives won and now it’s tit-for-tat time; you win.
If you feel that progressives are really better than the status quo, and really believed the criticisms of Bush as ‘the decider’, and his lack of deliberation, or the vacuum of discourse before our last trillion dollar decision; we should debate it.
Again, Obama is not Bush – but why would we want to muffle those that have a difference of opinion? Wasn’t a good idea in ‘03, probably not a good idea today.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:07 pmOh, totally.
I think the BushCo series was made by Troma Entertainment.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:08 pmKeltoi you are still defending the so called democacy we created in Iraq. You are now defending failed economic policies, why do you defend the indefensible?
Same with backup. You guys really don’t have a leg to stand on. What would it be?…..fiscal responsiblility as seen by the right, again, seriously.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:10 pmbackup:
I’ll tell you what. You can have the tats, if I can have… Well you get the idea.
Afternoon ralph.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:13 pmralph. I’m using the wrong word. my bad. maybe non-partisan would be better. I’ll think about it.
The idea is obviously: It’s a trillion dollars. Obama’s a great guy, but why trust his sole judgement. It was a mistake for the Congress not to take more time and to question Bush more forcefully in ‘03. If Democrats break ranks a little over sincere concerns about the stimulus, that’s probably okay. We had more time to act in ‘03 and we probably have more time to act today. It’s a trillion dollars.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:15 pmYou didn’t take it out of context. you misrepresented it. Big difference.
Of course bad movies can be made from a single unitary vision. I might equate George Bush with Ed Wood, if we’re going that way.
You can always pull an extreme to negate any argument, but do you really think that Obama is an Ed Wood? Or even a Kevin Smith?
My argument was that a slow and deliberate pace, while generally useful in crafting legislation, is also a very convenient tactic for those who want to weaken or defeat legislation like this. I don’t trust congressional Democrats that much more than Republicans, but I know that the things Republicans are whining for — tax cuts, tax cuts and more tax cuts — haven’t worked for the past eight years — at least, not for the purpose we want to achieve now.
And they are the ones who are saying “whoa, slow down, there, buckaroo! what’s the big hurry?”
I have learned not to trust them even a little bit.
Look, this package is not going to be anything close to fiscally responsible no matter how you slice it. We’re gonna be stuck with a massive bill even on top of the one that Bush ran up. The important thing is that it provides work for people, in ways that provides work for other people secondarily. Tax cuts ain’t gonna do it. Bridge construction is. Research is. Pell grants will. money going into programs that help people will do that.
And it needs to be done and gotten into place quickly.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:18 pmbackup Says:
Republic. If your argument is that progressives won and now it’s tit-for-tat time; you win.
____________
Nice shuffle, B-cup. Proves you still can get into the ring. That wasn’t my point, however. MY POINT was “Why should we play nice now after being slimed, slandered, ridiculed, and spit at for the last eight years?”
I just want to hear a GOOD explanation of that. And I don’t think the GOOP arguments we’re going to hear will be based on reasoned, nuanced arguments. They’re going to act like p!ssy, spoiled brats who will be disruptive as hell just because they can, as soundly evinced by the ridiculous lies already being told by GOOPers and their mouthpieces in the media, like the repeatedly cited fake, NON-EXISTANT CBO report.
Will GOOPer arguments against Obama’s choices be based on sound judgement, OR, will they just be as obnoxious as possible, hoping he fails so they can slither back into power when the time comes?
You can say, “Well, all politicians play to win”. True, THEY do. But WE, THE PEOPLE, put them in office for good governance, not game playing. There was a time when Botch had a whopping 92% approval rating. We weren’t all out to get him, by any stretch of the imagination. He, and the GOOP, lost that backing because they betrayed the trust of the American people.
If unemployment was down, the deficit gone, the skies were clear, the childrens was lurnin’, and Iraq was a peaceful, stable democracy, I’d be votin’ GOOPer!
At the height of BtochCo’s rule, we were roundly criticized and even THREATENED for daring to voice ANY opposition to Botch’s every whim. And now, with the Big Brass Shoe on the other foot, we’re just supposed to swallow it all and make nice, whilst GOOPers CONTINUE to play the same sick game?
You must think we’re as dumb as the 23% who still insist Botch did a good job.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:19 pm: )
January 30th, 2009 at 1:19 pmYou are only correct about the 03 comment. Obama has real economists that know what they are doing….not like bush at all…..why listen to failures when looking for a positive change? Doesn’t make sense.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:21 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
I think the BushCo series was made by Troma Entertainment.
_____________
Heh… good one. I’m quite aware who Troma is. I had friends who almost had their flick picked up by Troma once.
So, we can go forward relegating the Botch Admin to “Plan 9 From Outer Space”?
Works for me. Cheney must have played the Max Baer part, huh?
January 30th, 2009 at 1:23 pmbackup Says:
… Well you get the idea.
Some of us do. Care to try thinking today? Beats puking all hollow.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:26 pmAnd Ralph, you do real good for a llama. Nice post at 45.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:28 pmHow does the fact that Republicans spent unwisely, rationalize hasty decision making on the part of progressives?
January 30th, 2009 at 1:30 pmThat was for Fred.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:30 pmIt’s too bad that Nelson isn’t up for re-election in 2010. I would really like to see us get rid of that a$$clown.
And the Florida Nelson too. They are both DINOs.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:31 pmRemove Nelson for further consideratino
January 30th, 2009 at 1:35 pmYou don’t have to play nice. You won, do what you want.
I’m not saying that progressive are or will do this, but if you lament about the treatment you got from conservatives and then turn and respond in kind; you’re not really different than those you complain about. You only occupy a different position on the ideological spectrum.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:36 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
How do Pell grants and research funding not help stimulate the economy?
Don’t colleges and research facilities typically pay the people who work there?
Exactly. And when a student has a Pell Grant, that allows them to spend some of their money that would have gone to those school fees somewhere else.
I hate it that people are looking at this bill to only create new jobs. I think it is geared towards creating new jobs and ensuring that current jobs don’t go away. If students can’t get a Pell Grant, many of them won’t be able to go to college. The less students, the less need for teachers and the less need for ancillary workers. So the college starts laying off workers because there aren’t enough students.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:36 pmand the average education level of US students drop and America continues to dumb itself down. Broadens the listening base for Repug hate radio and TV.
Sounds like their kind of strategy.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:39 pmKeltoi Says:
Infrastructure, espcecially for green power improvements and grid….
You seem to be under the impression that this is an “infrastructure bills” and not a stimulus bill. This bill has been designed to stimulate the economy in more ways than just fixing our infrastructure.
But, I do believe concepts like that are beyond you. You seem to be a black and white single minded kind of thinker which is probably why your posts are always so dumb.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:40 pmI always thought ralph’s moniker was cool. For a while, I thought about changing mine to ‘backup the voluptuous camel’. But, then I thought no – better stick with just ‘backup’.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:42 pmbackup Says:
I’m not saying that progressive are or will do this, but if you lament about the treatment you got from conservatives and then turn and respond in kind; you’re not really different than those you complain about. You only occupy a different position on the ideological spectrum.
I guess you are missing the piece about where we have tried to play nice with the Republicans. When did they ever play nice with us? Besides, the Republican definition of bipartisanship is “do as we say”. They don’t understand the concept of cooperation and compromise.
This country is in too much trouble right now to continue to play nice with the obstructionist Republiscums. I say it’s time for Obama to tell them to “SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP”. He gave them a chance and they blew it. So it’s time for him to assert his authority given to him by the people of this country and do what we elected him to do.
If you don’t like it, perhaps you can run a worthy opponent against him in 2012 and hope like hell that Obama screws up before the election.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:44 pmKeltoi – Obama publicly pressured the House to get rid of the contraception thing – that tells me there is probably other stuff in there he doesn’t approve of.
Not so fast Keltoi, this seems contradicted by the TP post here:
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/01/30/family-planning-back/
Obama is using episodes like this, and the continued presence of Repugs at the table, to expose how extremely partisan Republicans are.
They are still in lockstep, and they still back policies that have proven to be ineffective at even slowing the rate of falling into the current recession, let alone pull us out of it.
They’ve focused on corporate tax cuts and screamed about family planning (which clocked in at a hefty 0.03% of the stimulus package) and whined about resodding the DC Mall (another relatively miniscule percent of the overall spending).
Where were you talking about fiscal responsibility and measured response when it came to funneling huge sums of money into the deserts of Iraq and overpriced private contractors?
Where was your concern over wise spending then?
January 30th, 2009 at 1:45 pmGot any examples of hasty decision making by progressives that don’t include support for botch and the gop’s bad ideas?
January 30th, 2009 at 1:46 pmI heard an interesting discussion this morning with Thom Hartman on this issue. A caller suggested that what Obama should do is to let the Republicans know that if they don’t think the bill is worth voting for then they can’t expect any money from the stimulus bill to reach their districts or for Senators, their states. I kind of like that idea. They don’t think it will work or they think it’s a waste of money, then they shouldn’t get any.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:46 pmI always thought ralph’s moniker was cool.
I considered changing mine to “John Goldstone” but thought that Ralph might think I was tryin’ to horn in on his credit… and sadly, there is no Oscar for Producer…
January 30th, 2009 at 1:47 pmFred Says:
backup Says:
How does the fact that Republicans spent unwisely, rationalize hasty decision making on the part of progressives?
Got any examples of hasty decision making by progressives that don’t include support for botch and the gop’s bad ideas?
He thinks that passing this stimulus bill is a hasty decision. He would rather let Rome burn while the Republicans fiddle. And then when the Recession turns into a Depression, they will blame it on Obama.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:47 pmbackup Says:
I’m not saying that progressive are or will do this, but if you lament about the treatment you got from conservatives and then turn and respond in kind; you’re not really different than those you complain about. You only occupy a different position on the ideological spectrum
This is rich – you’ve been a troll for the Con-artists and Bushco and never seemed to care about how Democrats were treated. Now the shoe is on the other foot and you’re trying to spout some sort of morality lesson?
Get real.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:47 pmYou forget one important fact. They were wrong about everything…….name one thing they were right about captain.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:48 pmbackup Says:
How does the fact that Republicans spent unwisely, rationalize hasty decision making on the part of progressives?
How does the fact that Republicans spent unwisely and you still supported them, yet now claim to advocate the opposite approach, make any sense whatsoever?
You love having your cake and eating it too – typical, greedy, CON.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:49 pmBilbo. I don’t want Obama to screw up. If he makes great decisions and the country’s better off – I’ll be more than content with another 4 years. The issue is that after decision making of the last 8 years, I’ve come to the conclusion that putting trust in one guy (regardless of his intentions) to make the decisions – is not be the best plan.
Obama’s going to get what he wants. And Republicans aren’t the only obstructionists (read the thread). But, if all the voices in Congress are active – we’ll probably get better decisions.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:50 pm46. The Republic of Stupidity Says:
BRAVO! Well said my friend.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:51 pmbackup Says:
And Ralph, you do real good for a llama. Nice post at 45.
I always thought ralph’s moniker was cool. For a while, I thought about changing mine to ‘backup the voluptuous camel’. But, then I thought no – better stick with just ‘backup’.
Your attempts at “humor” are as lame as your attempts at “coherent policy arguments” or “why-the-Dems-should-cater-to-the-Repubs-even-though-the-Repubs-have-been-failing-at-everything-since-Reagan” routine.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:51 pmbackup – The issue is that after decision making of the last 8 years, I’ve come to the conclusion that putting trust in one guy (regardless of his intentions) to make the decisions – is not be the best plan.
Took you 8 years? Backup not so quick on the up take.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:52 pmPatrioticLiberalChristian Says:
We don’t need to waste time passing a different Senate version and then trying to pass a reconciliation version.
I don’t know, using a Senate version to remove the conciliations made to Republicans would seem to me to be the most appropriate legal method of doing so. And the Dems should remove those, since the Republicans won’t play anyways. Otherwise you end up doing what the Republican Congress did when it started using the reconcilation process to add stuff that was in neither version and remove stuff that was in both versions, thereby effectively bypassing Congress completely. Which in my opinion is a violation of the Constitution.
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Keltoi Says:
Why can’t these items be addressed seperately?
That would give the R’s more opportunity to block things, and they would sieze that opportunity wherever they could.
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Buckie Boy Says:
If some infrastructure funding is on some bridge or something, won’t the company doing that work just hire the people it already works with?
More work = more jobs. It’s not like the people who would do that work are employed already. Employers don’t tend to keep employees around “on retainer” when there isn’t work for them to do.
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backup Says:
I think the Republican unity on the issue is disingenuous, because they realize it doesn’t really matter. The fact that some Democrats won’t just blindly agree, is encouraging, and it seems to me, more the way it should be.
I too would be glad to trade you a dozen or so more Dem votes for a dozen or so Republican votes. Even with the same outcome, I think we’d all feel better about the process. I think much of the “partisan” problem has to do with members of Congress always voting exactly as instructed by their party rather than as their consciences or home constituencies dictate. But the results of this House vote shows that it’s more of an R problem than it is for the D’s.
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Keltoi Says:
I am glad Sen. Nelson is at least raising the issue. When the R’s raise it they are simply dismissed as obstructionist.
It’s just that the R’s don’t have any standing to complain about the process given the way they’ve governed from 2000-2006, completely shutting out the other party.
Regarding the speed of it, there’s going to continue to be a sense of urgency in the electorate that the President and majority party can take advantage of, at least until things get a little better.
Another reason for rushing everything through up front is to increase investor, creditor and consumer confidence. Even if it will take a while for some of the positive impacts of this bill to manifest, that at least gives people some assurance that better times are ahead, which may motivate them to invest more, loan more, and buy more right now.
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Keltoi Says:
Infrastructure, espcecially for green power improvements and grid developement, fast track that all day long. But the current bill as passed by the House – too big, too fast, not enough oversight and evaluation.
I don’t know if this bill is terribly comparable to the bailout. In the bailout, mass quantities of cash were handed to Paulson to dole out, even before the supposed oversight mechanisms were in place. This bill goes through existing states and agencies, so the oversight and auditing structures are already there.
Also, in the Paulson system, it never was clear exactly what we were getting for the money, except aversion of some vague yet horrible catastrophe. At least this bill enumerates exactly what it is we’re buying.
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Luis M Says:
Giving credit where credit is due, Keltoi’s arguments make sense to me.
Me too. I’m only in slight disagreement with his conclusion, and that mostly out of habit.
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The Republic of Stupidity Says:
MY POINT was “Why should we play nice now after being slimed, slandered, ridiculed, and spit at for the last eight years?”
I just want to hear a GOOD explanation of that.
Two wrongs don’t make a right, especially when so much is on the line. If the Dems really feel they’re acting in the best interest of the country, then fine. If it’s about payback, then I’d rather have them not.
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Bilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
It’s too bad that Nelson isn’t up for re-election in 2010. I would really like to see us get rid of that a$$clown.
Let’s wait to see how he votes before grabbing the torches and pitchforks. ;)
January 30th, 2009 at 1:57 pmbackup, at one point I wondered if your moniker was in reference to what police and military personnel provide for each other. I quickly figured out it was the other meaning.
If you ever get a drivers license, the R in PRNDL was meant for you.
January 30th, 2009 at 2:00 pmTweedster Says:
backup – The issue is that after decision making of the last 8 years, I’ve come to the conclusion that putting trust in one guy (regardless of his intentions) to make the decisions – is not be the best plan.
Took you 8 years? Backup not so quick on the up take.
It also assumes that Obama is going to be the “Decider guy” like Bush. He has already shown that he is inclusive and that he is open to all opinions. He has already changed his mind on a couple of things due to hearing differing opinions. But, in the end these things are his decisions.
Personally I am glad we finally have a President who listens to someone other than himself and his sycophant cronies who only tell him what he wants to hear (Bush). Even we can tell him what we think at Whitehouse.gov. And from what I hear, he is paying attention to what we are saying too.
January 30th, 2009 at 2:02 pmFred. Republicans were wrong about a lot of things. But the point I’m making is not about Republicans. I making the point that progressives were right. They were right that we should have had more debate. We shouldn’t use the ‘crisis’ of terrorism to rush into a war without deliberation. If we would have done what progressives suggested – we could have avoided much of the mistakes.
I’m asking you today, doesn’t that same progressive idea still make sense today? Why are we using an economic ‘crisis’ to hastily spend a trillion dollars. Money (like the money we spent in Iraq) that our kids will have to repay? Is the situation so dire that we don’t have time to deliberate it? Is Nelson possibly the Senator Byrd of the current circumstance?
I’m not defending Republicans. I’m reminding progressives of what they got right.
Let Nelson make his case.
January 30th, 2009 at 2:02 pmeconomic policy is always directed by the president and his appoitees. Now that bush is gone you want to do away with that system is very telling.
Ever wonder why our country always faces an economic downturn every time a republican has been in office and just the opposite happens every time a democrat gets in office……seems fairly obvious to the objective observer.
January 30th, 2009 at 2:03 pmBilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
It’s too bad that Nelson isn’t up for re-election in 2010. I would really like to see us get rid of that a$$clown.
Let’s wait to see how he votes before grabbing the torches and pitchforks. ;)
I don’t care how either of the Nelsons vote on this bill. They both need to go. They are both huge DINOs and do more harm than good for the Democratic party.
January 30th, 2009 at 2:04 pmElBruce sez…
“I just want to hear a GOOD explanation of that.”
Two wrongs don’t make a right, especially when so much is on the line. If the Dems really feel they’re acting in the best interest of the country, then fine. If it’s about payback, then I’d rather have them not.
___________
I’m not arguing for payback, Bruce. It may have sounded like that, but I wasn’t. I did want to hear b-cup’s gymnastic, gyrating explanation of why what’s good for the goose ISN’T good for the gander. Heh…
I was also trying to make the point that GOOPers are SUCH ASTONISHING HYPOCRITES. After eight years of that endless bullying and smearing ,we’re all just supposed to “play nice’ while they CONTINUE down the same path?
Just astonishing.
The wingnutters have lost all contact w/ reality and the rest of us.
January 30th, 2009 at 2:05 pmbackup, yes, the situation is that dire. Our economy is a sneeze away from something that would make the Great Depression look like a hiccup.
I would rather repay any money that was actually used to benefit the country than a ruble spent on a manufactured war.
January 30th, 2009 at 2:06 pmbackup Says:
Fred. Republicans were wrong about a lot of things. But the point I’m making is not about Republicans. I making the point that progressives were right. They were right that we should have had more debate. We shouldn’t use the ‘crisis’ of terrorism to rush into a war without deliberation. If we would have done what progressives suggested – we could have avoided much of the mistakes.
I’m asking you today, doesn’t that same progressive idea still make sense today? Why are we using an economic ‘crisis’ to hastily spend a trillion dollars. Money (like the money we spent in Iraq) that our kids will have to repay? Is the situation so dire that we don’t have time to deliberate it? Is Nelson possibly the Senator Byrd of the current circumstance?
I’m not defending Republicans. I’m reminding progressives of what they got right.
__________
I’m saving this exchange off to a word doc, Captain. Next time the Big Brass Shoe is on the other foot, I’m bringing it out!
Welcome back to the Light.
January 30th, 2009 at 2:07 pmExactly the point captain, the republicans used a “fake” crisis to forward their agenda. There is nothing “fake” about the crisis we face today. It’s not apples and oranges.
January 30th, 2009 at 2:09 pmBilbo. you’re right. as long as it will only be those that get the money, that will have to pay it back.
Sounds like you’re on to something.
January 30th, 2009 at 2:09 pmAs to the Republicans being wrong about a lot of things, plz inform us as to one point they have been right about in the past 8 years.
January 30th, 2009 at 2:10 pmThis isn’t something a conservative would have said in ‘03?
January 30th, 2009 at 2:11 pmThe difference, backup, is that the “crisis” of terrorism was largely manufactured, or at least significantly exaggerated in order to push through Cheney’s power grab and the invasion of Iraq from which Cheney’s former employer profited significantly.
There is no debate that our economic crisis is real. Even republicans have finally dropped their “the fundamentals are strong” bullshit.
January 30th, 2009 at 2:11 pmAbsolutely they would have, and did. But there were plenty of folks of other political persuasions saying otherwise.
Virtually no one is saying otherwise about the current crisis.
January 30th, 2009 at 2:13 pmTweedster Says:
Where were you (and the GOOP*) talking about fiscal responsibility and measured response when it came to funneling huge sums of money into the deserts of Iraq and overpriced private contractors?
Where was your (and the GOOP’s*) concern over wise spending then?
_____________
* emphasis mine…
My point EXACTLY, Tweedster!!!
Yes, now that ADULTS are hopefully in charge again, hopefully they will indeed behave like adults. And I do find it oh so… satisfying… to get a GOOPer by the scruff of his, or her, greasy neck, drag them over to a big pile of cold Cheney, and RUB THEIR NOSE IN IT, all whilst saying “Bad GOOPer… Bad GOOPer” over and over again.
Oh well… I guess I’m just being petty… heh… sure is FUN!!!
Whatareyougonnado? I gotta be me… :-D!!!
January 30th, 2009 at 2:13 pmbut it was a lie captain…….a lie, a big fat lie and we all know that today..
I tell you what, you are wearing me out like a kid asking “are we there yet”
prattle on my insignificant advisary.
January 30th, 2009 at 2:18 pmThe Republic of Stupidity Says:
I did want to hear b-cup’s gymnastic, gyrating explanation of why what’s good for the goose ISN’T good for the gander. Heh…
Well, I’m saying that it’s not good, period. Sounds to me like backup’s pretty much conceding the point. Of course, you can point out how conveeeenient it is that he’s conceding this point now of all times, but you aren’t going to get a different answer.
But they aren’t going to get what they want. Obama’s version of bipartisanship is a good one, I think. Dems are going to govern as they see fit not because they’re getting the R’s back, but because they’re trying to govern correctly. The R’s can get on board and negotiate in good faith, or they can shut themselves out of the process.
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The Republic of Stupidity Says:
I’m saving this exchange off to a word doc, Captain. Next time the Big Brass Shoe is on the other foot, I’m bringing it out!
Gonna be a looooong time before they get that shoe back.
January 30th, 2009 at 2:20 pmFred Says:
I tell you what, you are wearing me out like a kid asking “are we there yet”
prattle on my insignificant advisary.
____________
As they say in Scotland, Oouch’mon!
He’s got ya there, b-cup.
January 30th, 2009 at 2:21 pmSeems everyone is nitpicking while Rome burns. A population of 300m, with twice that many talking heads could debate this issue until the cows come home. Part of the solution is expediency. The Republicans had their shot at it, now it’s time to apply a different ointment to cure the disease. Of course the Republicans oppose it, to do otherwise would require them to change their stripes and become Democrats. Imagine if this stimulus package really works. That would imply that the Republicans really are all wet. There’s an old saying among fisherman: Might as well try throwing the tackle box into the water, since none of the other bait has worked. Let’s throw our support behind this now, then we can all be Monday morning quaterbacks and evaluate the outcome with all the “told you so…” to follow. Hrump! who knows, it may actually work! Blessed are the greedy, for they care not for the middle-class……..
January 30th, 2009 at 3:44 pmI confess to being a bit frustrated here. Many of those posting seem to think that there is no qualitative difference between jobs created and paid for with government funds (road and bridge construction, parks and trails, military service etc.) and jobs created by actual business production – (agriculture, mining, industrial processing, transportation of goods, manufacturing, oil and gas production etc.) The former require that the funds used to pay for them be extracted from the pockets of individuals or of businesses, leaving them less with which to pursue their own dreams and create new sources of income. The latter actually create income streams due to placement of new products and new ideas on the market for which people are willing to spend their money. Getting a Pell grant and spending it to further your education, while nice for you, means that either I or someone like me must take money I’d spend for my grandchild’s education and give it to you, minus twenty percent to the government for “shipping and handling”. If, however, you come to work for me, provide labor in exchange for money, you still get the cash, but your labor enables me to produce a good that I can sell to help put my grandchild through school. The two are not equivalent.
That is why the WPA and CCC and other make-work projects of the Roosevelt administration failed. They had to take the money away from us before they could give it back. They failed miserably and expensively. The current crop of stimuli are also doomed to failure, not for political reasons, but because they are based on fallacious assumptions. wygent
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January 30th, 2009 at 5:04 pmloxias Says:
Get lost you noxious jerk
January 30th, 2009 at 5:39 pmHow did the WPA and CCC fail, wygent?
January 30th, 2009 at 5:49 pmwygent Says:
Your take on this is simplistic and frankly dumb. Boeing wouldnt EXIST without public subsidies and niether would the railroads. Rural electrification and the highway system were both built with public funds and there is no denying the economic boost that came with them as rural people began to buy the products electricity made possible. Nor the efficiency that comes from a world class transportation system the same with the satelite technology that was publicly funded and is the basis for the communication industry. The defense dept is a major source of economic stimulation. You seem to be saying that no money intering the economy is worth the expense unless it is making revenue for the already incredibly wealthy.
January 30th, 2009 at 6:22 pmWhat does the average (responsible) Americn do when they suddenly realize their debt is out of control? Go shopping? I think not. Many of us WORKERS are aghast at the shopping list this “Economic Stimulus Plan” really is. I am saddled with over $20,000 in student loans – no government programs that cover workers – yet my tax dollars will allow someone else to attend college practically free? Get a job and work your way through (and pay for it for the rest of your career) like the rest of us that take a little responsibility for OUR OWN WELFARE! My tax money for STDs? Insulating someone’s house? Give me a break.
January 30th, 2009 at 8:30 pmEugeneDebs, I may not have made myself clear. I don’t object to government building or subsidizing roads and power grids etc. What I object to is the notion that those sorts of jobs are the economic equivalent of jobs created by actual production of tangible goods. Certainly we get some return on our investment in government, as we should expect, but government jobs and jobs paid for by tax dollars give us far less “bang for the buck” than jobs that are created by an oil company, a coal mine or a power plant and funded by the income created by that industry.
wiley: the WPA and CCC and several other projects were designed to “get people back to work” or in the current usage “jump start the economy”. By 1941, the economy was still in a shambles, food lines were still prevalent and not much had really changed from 1930. The advent of WWII was what ended the depression, not the endless, horribly expensive economic interventions of FDR. I’m looking at a proposed repeat of the same mistakes. wygent
January 30th, 2009 at 8:54 pmSorry, I’m gettin’ old and forgetful, I also wanted to mention that the folks who get hit the hardest by the taxation required for these “economic stimuli” are small businesses. Boeing, GE and Brown & Root have some cushion, but not smaller businesses. wygent
January 30th, 2009 at 8:59 pmJanuary 30th, 2009 at 9:58 pm
http://current.com/items/89427140/a_modern_day_wpa_will_save_the_economy_note_to_next_president.htm
January 30th, 2009 at 9:59 pmI say it’s our money, and I would like to see where every single dollar is going. Keep the pork out, and release the money now, with no provisions like “this get’s paid out in 2 years”, or any crap like that.
For me, transparency is a big deal, and it should be for everyone. Our kids will be paing for this longa fter we’re gone, so it should be open to all to see where it is going.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:58 pmHey Wily… you seem like an informed person… but what you don’t mention about FDR and his new deal is that after this was all said and done, unemployment went back up to 17%… WWII actually got us out of the great depression…
For all of you complaining about tax cuts for corporations… do you under stand that lower the cost to do business will help them CREATE NEW JOBS! how is giving people who don’t even pay taxes $500 refund checks going to help the economy? They will save it (as they should) and it will NOT fix the problem.
This bill is garbage, and from a guy who said he was going to change the way business is done in washington, yet he is advocating passing the biggest pork bill in American history… I find it funny…
How is STD education going to stimulate the economy? How is College tuition assistance going to spark the economy?
How is Health research going to create jobs in this country? I can go on and on…
I am not arguing the value of these programs, but I am arguing that should NOT be packaged in a bill meant to “spur” the economy and create jobs…
ALL of the money need to go to building up our infrastructure, and to tax cuts – yes for everyone, especially corporations, small businesses, and people WHO ACTUALLY PAY FEDERAL INCOME TAXES…
February 3rd, 2009 at 12:51 pmWe need to stop that Bill from [assing,This bill will only make it worse…
Understand that Obama is pushing a national bankrupting “stimulus” plan and trying to scare people into going along and approving it saying it will turn into a catastrophe without that bill.. That is absurd,that bill will be the catastrophe.Yes people are losing jobs daily out there but it’s because Obama hasn’t addressed the financial and credit problems with the banks,and the mortgage crisis also created by these Banks.The problems in our economy originated there and is creating every other problem we are having around the country. Businesses cannot sustain and thrive without credit. People or businesses cannot buy without loans and credit.If they cannot continue to run their businesses they cannot stock and support their business,and the consumers-us cannot buy then they cannot pay their employees. Of course they have to cut down and that means more people lose jobs! This now- is Mr. Obama’s fault. He needs to stop blaming, they’re gone now and he has the money and the control.He got the money to address that before he stepped into that office.
This so called stimulus doesn’t even address those issues at all and cannot possibly resolve those problems or end those lay offs. What is Obama waiting for here? I’ll tell you what- To pass his wish list that will break the back of our economy and rob all of us of our savings, money and livelihoods.? He already has another 350 billion dollars to use to address those Real Issues and The Real Causes Of the problems we’re having and He has done nothing with it. He needs to Resolve those two if he is to do anything first, the rest will correct itself with it.Cause and effect.Resolve the cause-eliminate the effects! In not doing so Obama is deliberately creating- allowing the decline in the economy forcing businesses to come apart.He is the cause for this on going increasing losses of employment and business shrinkages by neglecting his responsibility to Resolve The Problems With The Funds He Already Received To Do Exactly That With.That should have Obama’s number one priority, and had been resolved first and foremost.
Make no mistake here,that lack of address on Obama’s part of those main issues are a deliberate manipulation to achieve his & the Dem.’s desires and agendas which have little to do with stimulating the economy. Most of what is in that bill has no business being in a stimulus bill at all and can be addressed separately later on in a timely manner,in the proper fashion and gone over with a fine tooth comb. Obama also needs to pay ACORN out of his own pocket for their ‘$upport” and “help” with his election-Not with our tax dollars! Obama said last night that “that is what a stimulus is.Spending..” That’s spending that “stimulates our economy Now” Mr. Obama! Not 3 & 4 or more years later.That bill doesn’t serve the American people in that respect, and much of what I’ve read in that bill says to me that our government wants to drive the American people into poverty. We don’t want or need more government. Jobs that we will also have to pay for. Any contracts on workable projects and infrastructure needs to be given in The Private Sector Period.There are more than sufficient amounts of businesses and services in the private sector that can be contracted for any of the work needed to stimulate the economy and create more of those jobs in the private sector “NOW”. No more government-we need less government, no more dysfunctional organizations.
If you really look through that plan you might see what I see which is a plan designed to create a poverty nation.A Welfare Nation that is financially enslaved to this government and the rich & wealthy-the Elites around the world.They want to control everything including our children and Us.We will have and do only what they decide we’ll have and do.This so called stimulus plan is like the Set Trap to a complete loss of our individual rights and freedoms.If we all don’t stand up for them and protect them-Game Over.We’ll lose everything…..
This bill will not help those who are losing their homes or those who’ve been laid off.Everything in the way of “Help” from the government you will get after that bill-You can get right now.There isn’t going to be anything more coming out of that bill other than higher taxes on the unemployment money you’ll have to pay in 2010 on your 1090.It may bring those $25.00 more for the Un-Empl. but that’s it.Big deal-it still leaves you in poverty.I know.The spending in that bill will cost us,it will not address or stimulate our economy and bares little benefit at all and for years to come.Did you see that bill? Did you notice that what help they offer people is in Unemployment benefits,food stamps,medicaid etc.?? That’s because that will be the NORM from this point forward because the economy will not be stimulated in any way shape or form by that bill.It will only be creating more debt,more taxes to pay,more poverty for us.That bill must be stopped and stripped of the spending that does nothing to help you & me-all of Us.It only creates larger government and more control over US.Our country will become even more unstable people.We will be crying for America- our country this year,it will be a very sad time indeed…
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