Democratic Senator Ben Nelson May Oppose Stimulus Package Because Of Pell Grant Funding
Democratic Senator Ben Nelson May Oppose Stimulus Package Because Of Pell Grant Funding
College students sought financial aid in record numbers last year, leading even Bush administration officials to call for an increase in Pell Grant funding — “the most important form of aid to needy students.”
Yet Sen. Ben Nelson (D-NE) is arguing against the House version of the economic recovery package because of its funding for Pell Grants. Nelson says he wants to eliminate “non-stimulative” and non-“job creation” items in the bill:
Even some Democrats are speaking out against including popular programs — such as an almost $15 billion increase in funding for Pell grants for higher education — in legislation that is supposed to spark an economic recovery. “You don’t want to be against Pell grants,” said Sen. Ben. Nelson (D-Neb.). “But the question is: How many people go to work on Pell grants?”
Increasing Pell Grant funding is a key way to preserve jobs in this tough economy. As grant recipients pay tuition and buy books, college faculty and staff will stay employed at a time when the education sector is experiencing widespread job cuts.
And with unemployment rising, Pell Grants provide workers with greater access to higher education — boosting their prospects for gaining employment. CAP’s Will Straw notes:
Improving the skills of unemployed American workers and providing funds to allow lower-income students to work their way through college would provide a boost to the economy and improve the workforce skills needed when businesses begin to hire again as the economy improves.
Furthermore, because the recession has forced colleges to raise tuition and cut aid, students receiving Pell Grants will quickly spend their loans, providing a short-term stimulus to the economy. In the long-term, increasing access to higher education is an investment that will help alleviate a human capital-starved economy.
Although Nelson has championed Pell Grant funding in the past, he is echoing right-wing talking points in labeling parts of the bill as “non-stimulative.” Putting off the Pell Grant shortfall for a later date is something the economy cannot afford.
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“But the question is: How many people go to work on Pell grants?”
Here’s one.
I got a job thanks to the education I received through a Pell Grant.
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:30 pmi would love to see someone in the house take a vote on how many of his/her colleagues went to college on pell grants and/or federal student loans.
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:35 pmFYT
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:38 pmPell Grants?
What the hell is wrong with you, Nelson?
Pell grants help young people get educated, who then go to work in productive jobs. Because it may take a couple of years, you don’t support it?
Again – what the hell is wrong with you, Nelson?
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:38 pmwindsore, masturbating to Victoria’s Secret catalogues is NOT an academic course of study.
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:39 pmWindsor, you are just too stupid.
You may think you are witty but your remarks belie that — you are a jerk, a stupid one at that.
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:40 pmThe politicians, it seems, are trying to out fiscally responsible one another…
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:40 pmwindsor Says:
OMG Nelson, how will I finish my degree in Womens Studies
Perhaps if you had finished you’d know how to use an apostrophe to indicate possession… for example, it is Women’s Studies not Womens Studies…
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:41 pmNo Mr. Senator, I can not convert my stock options into cash to pay for my college tuition.
My trust fund would be impacted too harshly by the capital gains taxes.
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:41 pmHow in God’s name is it bad for the US population to improve their education? We have some of the lowest scores in the industialized world. Can we grow and prosper with dumb citizens?
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:44 pmwindsor Says:
“OMG Nelson, how will I finish my degree in Womens Studies?”
No male at least, ever finishes a degree in Womens Studies..
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:44 pmBy the way, what is it you have hanging out in the wind that is so sore?
Since the bank bailout hasnt been stimulative, nor were the tax rebates stimulating for that matter, lets take the money back from the banksters..
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:46 pmToo many people, some our on side, still think of higher education as a novelty. It is not. Blocking anyone from pursuing some form or higher ed is neglecting the economy. Since it isn’t as easy to fix problems in the short term, planning for the long-term recovery and sustainable health of the economy is a sure-fire success. In the meantime, you plug the gaps where you can. So if congress can increase a source of existing funding to prevent layoffs and keep students enrolled, go for it. Don’t have second thoughts.
I don’t know about Nelson, but there are people who’d love to see professors out of work. Just a month ago the Senate refused to aid automakers, in turn a union-busting tactic.
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:47 pmStratRat Says:
How in God’s name is it bad for the US population to improve their education? We have some of the lowest scores in the industialized world. Can we grow and prosper with dumb citizens?
No, but the Republicans can steal from the American Public if they keep the populace dumb and no-thinking.
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:47 pmIn 1992 I was laid off by my small company in the last Bush recession (set-up by Reagan).
I retrained from cabinet making to IT. Most of my fellow students got Pell grants (I was refused for no good reason but I got a Stafford Loan instead).
90% of us got jobs after 1-1/2 years of unemployment. I for one went on to earn more than twice the money I’d ever earned before.
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:48 pmFramdammit, I’m sick of these politicians dumbing it down to the point of – they really need to stop electing stupid people. It isn’t merely a question of how many jobs you create for how many dollars, or 100% of the stimulus thingy would be creating government jobs – which isn’t actually a sustainable fix.
It’s about investing in the economic environment of America. There need to be useful resources in place that businesses can leverage for their own business models, such as infrastructure, and an educated workforce is part of that.
The American economy didn’t do well because a bunch of people in one country coincidentally decided to work harder and smarter than everyone else, it did well because there were roads and plumbing and electrical wiring and other infrastructure in place for businesses to make use of, because there were schools and school assistance available so businesses could employ smarter workers, because there was appropriate regulation in place so businesses could make sure deals they made were fair, and a variety of other investments in the economic climate around them.
The “economic conservative” image of the economy is a bunch of individual actors, each behaving as if in isolation, and it completely ignores the fact that there’s a macroeconomic environment around each actor, influencing the degree of opportunity available. It’s like wondering why the fish on you plate can’t swim. Nelson has completely bought into this false and selectively edited image.
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:49 pm5th Estate @ 4:48pm
Did you buy anything with your new found money-making ability? I would call that stimulating the economy.
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:49 pmAin’t it the truth. But I might not be able to finish at all because of some obstructionist from the democrat party.
Good to hear you support Pell Grants, windsor! I hope you learn many things in your quest to better yourself… for starters it’s the Democratic party not the Democrat Party…
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:50 pmthe “women’s studies” program windsore’s enrolled is his code name for being a crazy-assed-stalker.
how are those restraining orders working out for ya, winnie?
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:50 pmMy guess is it’s only “wind” in the broadest possible sense. It’s probably generated by a Hoover vacuum. And you can bet that could cause some soreness after a short usage time.
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:51 pmbelac
5th Estate
I love a good success story. Pell Grants are one of the great investments in humanity. Sure beats a corporate tax cut!
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:51 pmThe Pell funding is less than 2% of the stimulus bill. Anyone bringing that up is looking for a reason to vote against the bill and cannot be counted on. Anyone who can explain why college staff should lose well paying jobs should speak up now.
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:52 pmBen Nelson, Senator of Nebraska…
“Let them pick corn.”
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:52 pmThere is no better nor important “infrastructure” in this country than its people. And education is the foundation of that infrastructure. Bridges, highways, solar generators, electric cars, and other infrastructue don’t get designed and built without an educated and trained work force.
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:56 pmVery well said, EBruce (#18). Ben Nelson is considered the most conservative Democratic in the Senate. He isn’t wrong on all things by any means, including voting against drilling in ANWAR. However, he votes with the Republicans a great deal, and I know that when I watch Senate votes on C-Span, I frequently cringe. He was reelected in 2006, and in 2012, I hope a Progressive Democrat challenges him (and wins) in the primaries.
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:02 pmIf a Dim wants some limelight, why do they have to pick Repug tactics? Can’t someone come out and actually tell some sane, truthful reasons why investment in our people makes sound fiscal sense?
It seems all of the idiots aren’t on the Repug side of the aisle.
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:03 pmI thought he was A repuke,oops.Phuck you anyways Mr.Nelson. the middle and working class need Pell Grants and more if our kids are to be useful contributors to our country,yes this will create jobs.Is Nelson another re-puke in dem clothing just like the 11 dems in the house that vote NO.
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:06 pmwindsor thinks beating his wife and daughters is women’s studies.
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:07 pmFor Xisithrus:
Not only has the first bailout not stimulated the economy, want to add insult to injury — Citibank just upped my APR 6.5 points from 10.49% to a whopping 16.99% and actually said that if I didn’t like it, I should close the account. I’ve had the account 20+ years and never had a late payment. Thanks for nothing!
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:13 pmSomeone left the barnyard gate open…..
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:17 pm“You don’t want to be against Pell grants,” said Sen. Ben. Nelson (D-Neb.). “But the question is: How many people go to work on Pell grants?”
Someone should ask him how many college employees will lose their jobs if enrollment drops significantly because the kids can’t get the Pell grants that help them pay for their educations. We need more money for Pell grants right now because parents who are hard hit by the tanking economy can’t help their kids financially any longer.
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:18 pmwindsor Says: nothing
Remind you of a former troll who came by for one hit and then ran and hid, only coming back to see how many people responded to it’s idiocy?
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:19 pmJ.Davis, are you saying you opposed white trash barbie’s bridge to nowhere?
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:20 pmIronically enough, the words “repukelican”, “pork” and “south” seem to pop to mind in a stream of consciousness exercise.
Tonette Says:
For Xisithrus:
Not only has the first bailout not stimulated the economy, want to add insult to injury — Citibank just upped my APR 6.5 points from 10.49% to a whopping 16.99% and actually said that if I didn’t like it, I should close the account. I’ve had the account 20+ years and never had a late payment. Thanks for nothing!
And you are blaming this on Obama? He had nothing to do with that first bailout. You need to thank Bush/Paulson for what has happened to you. First they created this mess then they snookered Congress into giving them money to give to their wall street friends with no conditions and no oversight, not because they weren’t there, but because Bush/Paulson ignored them.
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:20 pmPlease explain the problems with this bill as you see them, without resorting to cliches and talking points…
we know that you folks like to label stuff with demeaning nicknames and thus dismiss them, but I’d like to hear your objection to actual stimulus spending and/or how one could craft such a bill without programs that could be characterized as “pork” by those with little ore than knee-jerk understanding of the mechanics of congressional appropriations and less intellectual integrity.
Thanks ever so.
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:21 pmThe real Corpy Puppet brigade is outing itself. Just look for any congress critter who objects to “non-stimulative” as being any money that goes somewhere besides banks and financial institutions.
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:21 pmOh sure, they’re railing about Bail-out-Bonuses in the whine press, but let’s just see how much of that wealth entitlement is clawed back (forget perp-walks). The flow of Borrowed Wealth from us to Wallstreet is not going to ebb until the Million Peasant March puts 1000 guillotines on the public square. Until then, the politicos will all fight like cats and dogs in public, while telling the nice Oligarchs “thank you massah, for the contribution” in private.
As a financial aid advisor, I know that for most students, especially those in universities, Pell grants only cover a fraction of the college expenses incurred. The percentage of tuition covered by Pell has decreased significantly since the inception of the program.
Despite what Senator Nelson believes, Pell grants DO help stimulate the economy. Students buy books, supplies, computers, and the fortunate ones might have some funds left for transportation expenses.
What happened to the days when providing secondary education or vocational training was good for the country?
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:23 pmI might not have finished college without the Pell grant. I still had to borrow 20 years ago to finance my education.
I have a lot of sympathy for those trying to finance college costs today.
Concerning the problem with Banks. Take your money out of your bank and put it into a credit union. I have three credit cards, only one of which I really use which is the one issued through my credit union. The other two (Sears and Home Depot) have raised their already ridiculous interest rates into the stratosphere. Since I don’t use those cards, I don’t care. My credit union credit card interest just went DOWN from 8.0 to 6.5.
I have all my assets in my Credit Union including my mortgage which I am going to refinance when the interest rates get below 5% and my mortgage broker at the bank is going to let me know when that happens.
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:23 pmwindsor Says:
OMG Nelson, how will I finish my degree in Womens Studies?
The University of Richard Armey is not an accredited Title IV institution, and therefore you’d be ineligible to receive federal aid.
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:24 pmShayne Says:
windsor thinks beating his wife and daughters is women’s studies.
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:07 pm
I must, most humbly, disagree. The only way a hateful creature like windsor is likely to study a woman is with a tire gauge.
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:29 pmHow does this respond to my question?
let me repeat it for you:
Please explain the problems with this bill as you see them, without resorting to cliches and talking points…
thanks.
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:33 pmTell us more, with a least a couple of details if possible, about your 50 state solution to our woes, Jeffy.
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:33 pm“…with a tire gauge.”
windsor’s concept of a woman’s wardrobe is limited to inner tube patches.
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:35 pmJ.Davis Says:
“Ralph,Americans 2 generations from even being born are being placed in debt up to their eyeballs by the federal govt.”
care to put that sentence in past tense? we were already past that point before obama took office.
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:37 pm527s need to target Nelson at home, with commercials of real Nebraskans telling how Pell grants helped them.
Bailed out banks sought visas for high-paying jobs:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/01/bailed-out-banks-sought-f_n_162877.html
Obama needs to get going, stop the bipartisan nonsense, and the scheming about Republican seats in 2010 (or adding more Republicans to his cabinet), live up to his campaign promises of open, transparent government and no more politics or politicians as we’ve known it — Tom Daschle and Geithner are disasters.
Obama’s White House is looking more and more like Clinton’s first two years, and every day that goes by, Obama is making Republicans stronger. The American people lose when that happens.
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:38 pmAnd this coming from a Democrat? Maybe college students like me need to write to Senator Nelson to remind him of just how expensive college is. NEWFLASH:College students have been hit by this recession as well. My tution was raised by $100 this semester and I could barely get the extra money for it.
“But the question is: How many people go to work on Pell grants?”
What an absurd comment! And they wonder why the youth of America are in trouble in regards to education? Question:What good is stimulating the economy and creating more jobs going to do if you can’t find the right people with the proper COLLEGE EDUCATION to work them? DUH!
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:41 pmIsn’t it interesting, Bozo, how all of a sudden trolls become concerned about future generations, once a Democrat is in the White House? Funny how that one circumstance seems to refocus their minds and recharge their commitment to “fiscal responsibility”.
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:41 pmIs it better to have students drop out of school and join the ranks of the unemployed than to allow them to complete their education?
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:42 pmSure, Ralph, as long as we both understand that “funny” is a fancy way of saying “pathetic” when referring to 43rd’s apologists.
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:48 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
windsor Says:
OMG Nelson, how will I finish my degree in Womens Studies?
windsore, masturbating to Victoria’s Secret catalogues is NOT an academic course of study.
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:39 pm
If it were, I’d have earned my PhD in record time. ;)
J.Davis,
If you are so concerned about debt being saddled on the next two generations, then you must be all for pulling our troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan immediately.
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:51 pmPell grants helped me finish college in December, so that I would be qualified to get a entry level job.
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:53 pm“But the question is: How many people go to work on Pell grants?”
Maybe the better question would be: How many more people are going to be looking for work without the Pell Grants, who otherwise would be either working or studying in our schools? Pell Grants might not create a lot of new jobs, but they’ll go along way towards preventing new job seekers.
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:54 pmj davis, so is a standing army. the founding fathers were directly against one since it would give too much power to the federal government. so, along the logic you employed, are you against the fed funding the military?
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:58 pmI am,if we can get them out safely.
—
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:00 pmIsn’t home safer? What does this mean?
I see you missed the part about “without resorting to cliches and talking points”.
Can you point to the part of the Constitution that makes federal funding of education “unconstitutional”?
“Unconstitutional” means “Conflicting with some provision of constitution, most commonly the United States Constitution”. It does mean “is not mentioned in the Constitution”.
I’m beginning to think you’re not really capable of having a discussion of the issues, Jeff.
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:01 pmReconstruction has failed every time uncle tried it ;).
Well, considering the South has produced people like you, I’d have to agree.
So, your one and only complaint about this bill is that it funds education, which I think would be part of “promoting the general welfare”, which the preamble states is one of the purposes of the Constitution, but which you feel is unconstitutional.
If conservatives truly believe that, then why don’t they campaign on it? Why doesn’t the Republican Party openly call for the elimination of the Dept of Education? (The whole party, not just a few wingnut libertarians who have nothing in common with the rest of the Republicans.)
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:05 pmRTWL,
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:08 pmIt’s a lost cause. I recommend just ignoring the one toothed one.
Very true Ralph, just what is a good definition of pork? After
all, most congresscritters pride themselves on how much federal funding they bring back to their state. Whether or not it’s pork I think depends on how well the money is spent.
With stimulus bill of this magnitude, there are so many usefull things that can be done, and I think focussing solely
on job creation alone is a big mistake.
Would Nelson rather have us import all our highly educated labor from overseas?
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:08 pmJ. Davis,
Your “right” to post comments in an electronic forum such as TP is not in the Constitution, either. (And, by the arguments conservatives like Scalia use, since you are not actually “talking” but “typing”, what you are doing is considered “conduct”, not speech. Of course, he’s an idiot.) Does that mean we can ban you without fear of you being upset over “constitutional issues”?
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:08 pmIsn’t the 10th the one that should let me get really messed up on drugs, marry someone of the same gender, have a bucnh of abortions and than be assisted in my suicide if it is cool with my state?
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:16 pmhhmmmm, section 1 of the 14th states,
“Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”
sooo, you’re all for taking away a citizen’s rights at the state level why?
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:16 pmOkay, so that addresses your woes as a downtrodden Southerner… how about the rest of us? How would any of those measures, such as repealing the ability of the people to directly elect their Senators rather than having the state legislators appoint them, serve to rejuvenate the economy?
Or didn’t you realize that we were discussing the economy, and congressional measures to deal with the second Bush recession?
Sorry. Perhaps we should have made that clearer.
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:17 pm“J.Davis Says:
“are you against the fed funding the military?”
No,all States agreed that that would be a federal responibility.”
but, just like in your strawman involving pell grants, the same logic you employed would apply to the military.
and a second question for you: how exactly would we pay for our military without federal taxes?
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:17 pmpersonally ralph, i agree with ole bette davis,
if those white trash southern states want to form their own country, i say let them. let them foot their own bills for a change instead of sucking the federal tit dry at the expense of the northern states.
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:19 pmThe 10th Amendment is your response to what provision of the Constitution conflicts with federal funding of education?
Seriously?
That’s the best you can do?
Yeah, I was right. You ARE incapable of discussing the issues rationally.
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:19 pmSince all the states appeared to agree to a federal military that canard about “well armed militias” is no longer needed…
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:21 pmCareful, Bozo, I fear that if you push on J.Davis’s logical house of cards, if you point out that one of the cards supporting the whole structure is in fact a Post-it™, you might make him angry.
I suspect J.Davis fancies himself the prototypical Angry White Man™.
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:22 pmconservative: n.
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:23 pmone who pisses and moans they have to pay taxes then screams and cries when their house burns down and there’s no fire department.
“I suspect J.Davis fancies himself the prototypical Angry White Man™.”
I thought that was michael steele?
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:24 pmWow, sucks to be you, J.Davis.
The guys in the mainstream who are closest to your side are “big govt. power hungry liberals” masquerading as conservatives, and they just got thumped in the election by the guys who are closer to being real liberals.
Looks like pretty much all of America thinks very little of your political philosophy.
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:24 pmJ.Davis Says: “More?”
Sure! That was all very interesting…
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:25 pmWhere in the Constitution do the states give explicit authorization for the federal government to raise a standing army?
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:26 pmGive the States power over the SCUS to enforce Article 1,section 8 of the u.s. constitution.
If by SCUS, you mean what we call SCOTUS, your proposal is unworkable. It would effectively create fifty new countries within our borders, as each state would be free to interpret the US Constitution as they see fit.
Repeal the 17 amendment.
Repealing the amendment would mean governors get to appoint all senators again. Don’t you mean “amend”, like Sen Russ Feingold (D-WI) has proposed?
Amend the constitution to strike the words “general welfare” and “nessary and proper” from the agreement.
The words “general welfare” is only in the preamble, which is a kind of “About” page for the Constitution. However, “necessary and proper” are what appear at the end of Article I, Section 8, Clause 18: “Clause 18: To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.” This is the phrase that actually gives the Legislative Branch the power to create the United States of America. Are we fighting the Civil War again here, Mr Davis?
Overturn White vs Texas to allow States to exit the union if the federal branch doesn’t keep it’s end of the agreement.
I am unfamiliar with White V. Texas, but the idea of allowing states to “exit the union” just sounds like more secessionist talk. Sure you don’t want to join the Alaska First Party? I’m beginning to think it’s the “United” part of the “United States of America” that gives you the most problems.
Abolish the IRS.
The IRS does not collect just income taxes, they also collect sales taxes and all other taxes. I hate taxes as much as the next guy (you), but ulike the next guy (you), I find them a necessary evil. My primary concern is that my tax money be well spent, not merely that it is being collected.
Repeal section 1 of the 14th amendment.
So, you want to take away the part of the constitution that guarantees you citizenship, and which guarantees that states can’t take away your federal rights? Or did you mean “amend” again. (There’s an important difference which I’m not sure you understand.) I’m all for amending the 14th so that it cannot be interpretated to bestow “Corporate Personhood”.
Limit the President to 1 6 year term.
The best kind of term limits are the ones where people are free to vote the guy out of office if they don’t like the job he’s doing, not the ones that guarantee that even the best people can only help serve our country for a limited time.
More?
I found all this baseless enough, thanks.
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:30 pm“Set and certain”, huh? Then why the need for a Supreme Court? Why the unending struggle from the earliest days of this nation’s founding between federalists and republicans?
Seems to me like you’re just assuming that your view of the Constitution is the correct one, and always has been. Evidence of learned and trained jurists past and present notwithstanding.
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:33 pmWhat do you want me to say?
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:34 pm–
I want you to say you have no beef with my drunken no seat belt wearing drug addicted abortion getting gay loving speed limit be damned lifestyle is A-Okay!
The 2nd amendment is a right of the citizen
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:36 pm– Then why did they include that part about for the purpose of a well armed militia. It says militia which doesn’t sound like it is intended that a single citizen makes a militia. Sounds like an organized entity to me
J.Davis Says:
Ralph,the 10th Amendment states that all that is not certainly delegated is reserved.Education is not delegated.What do you want me to say?
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:22 pm
Finish it: “reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” The People have decided they want a Dept of Education. Which is our right under the tenth.
As someone pointed out, a lot of your complaints have nothing to do with the stimulus bill being debated, but with the very foundation of the United States of America. You can relax now, Mr. Davis. “The War of Northern Aggression” is over. We (The North) won, and we let you (The South) re-join the union that you so cantankerously abandoned. And, to show you there’s no hard feelings, we in the North send more of our tax dollars to you in the South than you send up to us.
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:36 pmJ.Davis is just pissed the Constitution does not let him marry his sister.
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:36 pmWayne,because the republican party are a bunch of 2 faced lying rats!
Then why do you want us to do what they want?
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:37 pmBen Nelson is one of those GOP operatives that are masquerading as a Democrat, but actually oppose everything the Democratic Party stands for.
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:41 pmwow, i’m getting dizzy watching jd doing his whirling dervish routine. first he states maintaining a standing army isn’t in the constitution but was agreed upon by the states. now he says it’s in the constitution.
then he’s giving us a lesson in reading comprehension saying we should read the document? my head is spinning.
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:41 pmTo raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;
Interesting. The Constitution seems to limit “appropriation of money to that use” to two years. Yet here’s an instance of the Defense Department awarding a THREE YEAR contract for weapons system development.
seems like that should be unconstitutional, don’t it, J.?
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:42 pmAnd NOW he’s instructing us in the perspective we must use to read the document.
he sure does leave a lot of questions unanswered, doesn’t he?
And he doesn’t seem to like this country very much. He seems to wish with all his might that it were different — that it were the way HE wants it to be.
sad, really.
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:44 pmMy bad — he actually advised us of the PROspective from which we should read the document.
not sure what that means, but I thought it best to make the correction.
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:45 pmwhat’s sad is he has a vision of himself sipping juleps on the verandah of tara wearing a gown with a crinoline. he’s bought into the myth of the old south hook, line and sinker.
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:45 pmPell Grants. Civil War.
Yep.
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:46 pmHas anyone noticed how different the 21st century is from 18th?
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:52 pmI think J.Davis got stuck in a time warp between the pages of a Harry Turtledove novel.
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:55 pmWiley,
LMAO.
By the way , Pepsi does burn the sinusys (sic)
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:56 pmJ.Davis Says:
“Wayne,I don’t have time to go thru all that line by line right now,I gotta go
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:58 pmstir the mash.“
Crap, J.Davis found this thread too… Next thing we’re going to have people up in here taking over every thread to argue that the U.S. should have never revolted against England.
February 2nd, 2009 at 7:00 pmExactly. Therefore it is not “Set and Certain”. It all to be interpreted. The federalists wanted it interpreted in a way that allowed more federal control. The republicans wanted it interpreted in a way that left more power in the hands of the states.
It has NEVER been “Set and Certain”. It has always been a struggle between competing visions of America — from the Constitutional convention to Washington’s very federalist administration to Jefferson’s more republican administration (even though he was still eager to expand federal powers once he got them at his fingertips) through today. It has always been thus, and to argue that it was ever otherwise is delusional.
February 2nd, 2009 at 7:07 pmJ. Davis,
Since I once took an oath to support and defend the Constitution (an oath that, I feel, has no expiration date), I have read the Constitution. Many, many times. In fact, I have a couple of Word documents open right now with the text of the Constitution and its amendments.
Rememeber to notice when the constitution refers to the United States it says them not it.
Actually it doesn’t. It refers to “the United States” in the singular sense, and differentiates that from referring to “the Several States”. Maybe it’s you whio should try re-reading the Constitution. (In your defense, I’ll assume you meant the 16th, not the 17th.)
February 2nd, 2009 at 7:25 pmCorrection: repealing the 17th Amendment would return appointment of Senators to the State Legislatures, not necessarily to the Governors of each state. Governors would make appointments to fill vacant seats.
But, even replacement Senators should be voted on by the people, just as Representative replacements are. This, I believe, is what Sen Feingold’s amendment would do.
February 2nd, 2009 at 7:29 pmNelson should be flooded with phone calls telling him to pull his head out of his ass.
February 2nd, 2009 at 7:35 pmChrist, we’ve got a lot of work to do to take this party back.
February 2nd, 2009 at 7:43 pmWhat’s your problem with making whiskey Nevar?
:P
February 2nd, 2009 at 7:43 pmthe brown acid Says:
“What’s your problem with making whiskey Nevar?”
:P
I don’t know how….
February 2nd, 2009 at 8:12 pmIs Nelson an idiot?
The point of giving financial aid to students is so that they and their family have more money to spend on things, like the economy. If you don’t get financial aid, your parents will have to conserve and not spend on vital healthcare, take out another mortgage, and so on. This is exactly why there’s a stimulus. So wow. Good going, Nebraska.
February 2nd, 2009 at 9:00 pmWith all their philosophy and wisdom, the founders sat down to write the constitution of the United State such that hundreds of years later, no matter how profoundly and unfathomably different the future might be, the people of the United States would be slavishly devoted to the founders’ conception of states rights and use it as an excuse to secede from the United States. It was a practical joke—like loosening the lids on sugar dispensers at Denny’s even though you won’t be there to see the punchline.
February 2nd, 2009 at 9:31 pmI am pissed that I can only recommend that once!
February 2nd, 2009 at 9:36 pmGlad you like it, dbadass. There are moments. Trolls do have their uses.
February 2nd, 2009 at 10:07 pmSenator Ben Nelson – go sit in the corner with LIEberman.
February 2nd, 2009 at 10:17 pmwiley:
February 2nd, 2009 at 10:30 pmYou have had great stuff all over the place in the past hour. Keep it up!
Ben Nelson is one of those conniving Blue Dog Democrats who, along with the Republicans, believes that any taxpayer money that might get into the pockets of anyone suspected of being a Democrat or Independent (i.e. a non-Republican) is a bad idea.
The Bush administration over eight long, torturous years threw hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars at their Republican crony pals…who did a heckuva job…leading to one crisis after another for our beloved country.
Paulson last year threw $350 billion at the top-tier corporate executive class, primarily because culture of corruption Republicans in the Bush administration figured that most (if not all) of this wasted taxpayer money would go to Republicans, who would reciprocate by making large donations back to the Republican Party.
So, Sen. Ben Nelson, who consistently has sided with Republicans and Bush scam after Bush scam now believes that helping low-income college students and the families of low-income college students is a waste, and will not have any economic stimulative effect?
Is Sen. Ben Nelson nuts?
February 2nd, 2009 at 11:00 pmwindsor Says:
belac Says:
Perhaps if you had finished you’d know how to use an apostrophe
Ain’t it the truth. But I might not be able to finish at all because of some obstructionist from the democrat party.
What, exactly, did you want to “finish”? Your Victoria’s Secret session?
February 3rd, 2009 at 12:36 am.
Fascists tend to damp down higher education so that they can maintain a majority of citizens that can not independently think for themselves…
… I’m just saying.
.
February 3rd, 2009 at 12:55 amJ.Davis Says:
“If conservatives truly believe that, then why don’t they campaign on it? Why doesn’t the Republican Party openly call for the elimination of the Dept of Education?”
Wayne,because the republican party are a bunch of 2 faced lying rats!They are big govt. power hungry liberals that fool the dopes that vote for them that they are the “conservative ” party.They are worse than useless in forwarding conservatism.
Much as I loathe agreeing with anything that you have said in this thread, you DID produce a couple of manifest truths:
The repugs ARE, almost entirely, “a bunch of 2-faced lying rats.” That’s one for you.
The repugs ARE “big government.” That’s two.
The repugs ARE “worse than useless, and they DO “fool the dopes that vote for them.” That’s three, or maybe three and a half. And yes, I DID take those last phrases out of context. I’m practicing what you preach.
February 3rd, 2009 at 12:55 am.
So, does Sen. Nelson think a burger flipper will contribute more or less to the economy than a structural engineer will? Or how about a pharmacist? Or how about a nurse?
.
February 3rd, 2009 at 12:58 amWTF??
I know I’m late to this party, but as a University student I’m shocked at the ignorance of Senator Nelson. Most of the non-traditional students I know depend on Pell Grants to keep from having to take so much student loan money — so they can stay in school, get better jobs, and PAY MORE TAXES.
Get a clue, Nelson, ya f ucking DINO.
February 3rd, 2009 at 1:10 amME THIHKS J. Davis wants a return to the Confederate Constitution…
February 3rd, 2009 at 6:12 amucsbclassics53 Says:
ME THIHKS J. Davis wants a return to the Confederate Constitution…
J.Davis wanders into all threads to divert them into a discussion of why Lincoln should never have attacked the South for seceding. Seriously. J.Davis honestly believes that the most pressing political issue of our day is the Civil War, and the legal justification for the Confederacy must be discussed right now! It is one of the most spectacular and (too frequently) effective trollery methods I’ve ever seen.
February 3rd, 2009 at 10:28 am