REPORT: GOP Lawmakers Outnumber Dem Lawmakers By Almost 2 To 1 In Cable News Stimulus Debate Again
REPORT: GOP Lawmakers Outnumber Dem Lawmakers By Almost 2 To 1 In Cable News Stimulus Debate Again
Last week, ThinkProgress released a report showing that, in the debate over the House economic recovery bill on the five cable news networks, Republican members of Congress outnumbered their Democratic counterparts by a ratio of 2 to 1. The analysis tallied interview segments about the stimulus on CNBC, Fox Business, Fox News, CNN, and MSNBC during a three-day period, finding that the networks had hosted Republican lawmakers 51 times and Democratic lawmakers only 26 times.
The economic recovery package passed the House last week with zero Republican votes, shifting the focus to the Senate. Though the venue has changed, the debate on cable has not improved much.
In a new analysis, ThinkProgress has found that Republican lawmakers outnumbered Democratic lawmakers 75 to 41 on cable news interviews by members of Congress (from 6am on Monday 2/2 through 11pm on Thursday 2/5):
Some observations from our analysis:
– Last week, Fox News came the closest to balance with 8 Republicans and 6 Democrats. But the so-called “fair and balanced” network was not able to maintain such a ratio this week, hosting 24 Republicans and only 11 Democrats.
– The business news networks were particularly egregious this week. CNBC had more than twice as many conservatives, with 14 Republicans and 6 Democrats. Fox Business was even worse, hosting 20 Republicans for just 4 Democrats.
– In the previous study, the supposedly liberal MSNBC favored Republicans 15 to 9. This week, however, MSNBC became the only network to host more Democratic members of Congress than Republicans, with 17 Democrats and 12 Republicans.
Though the imbalance is already stark, the tilt of the coverage would have been even more lopsided if the analysis had been broken down into whether a lawmaker who appeared on TV was a supporter or a critic of the economic recovery plan. Some of the most frequent Democratic guests this week were outspoken critics of the proposed stimulus plans, such as Sens. Ben Nelson (D-NE) and Kent Conrad (D-ND).
Fortunately, the imbalance on the networks is not going unnoticed. A House Democratic leadership aide told Politico’s Michael Calderone yesterday that “what happened with cable last week is that Republican House members were the only show in town.” A “very senior” Democratic aide told The Washington Post’s Greg Sargent that the leadership is “aware of the problem and are taking steps to fix it.” The aide noted that “there is also an onus on producers to remedy this issue.”
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Gee… so much for the myth of a liberal media, huh?
February 6th, 2009 at 1:22 pmAnd yet, I’m sure I will drive home today listening to Hannity gripe about the “liberal media.”
February 6th, 2009 at 1:23 pmI don’t know about this criticism of the media. Was it that Democrats aren’t being invited, or they aren’t making themselves available?
February 6th, 2009 at 1:24 pmI can’t imagine why Republicans are winning the spin wars… can you?
Good thing we’ve got the librul media on our side!
February 6th, 2009 at 1:25 pmhello, FCC…
And can anyone tell me what exactly is wrong with bringing back the Fairness Doctrine? Or something like it?
February 6th, 2009 at 1:27 pmDon’t worry….no one watches tv anymore.
February 6th, 2009 at 1:29 pmisn’t liberal media an oxymoron, like ….liberal Rethuglican?
February 6th, 2009 at 1:29 pmWhat’s funny is that even with the imbalance, the republicans are losing the pr war….HA!
February 6th, 2009 at 1:30 pmHalf of this is probably abject fear by the networks of being accused of “liberal bias” while at least a piece of the remainder has something to do with alleged Dem leaders (e.g. Harry Reid) being human sedatives. I still say NPR has become worse than Fox “News” with its bias. I almost ran off the road last night hearing Mara Liason (gee, she works on Fox too!) misrepresenting Obama’s op ed piece by paraphrasing between the quotes.
February 6th, 2009 at 1:31 pmdeebaser Says:
I don’t know about this criticism of the media. Was it that Democrats aren’t being invited, or they aren’t making themselves available?
Sure, that makes sense. We know all the Democrats like to stay out of the limelight. I’m sure they were all ducking calls from the networks. . .
This would be a funny comment, deebaser, if it wasn’t so utterly ridiculous. This behavior by the networks has been tracked and documented for YEARS. For the last eight years, the excuse was always “Well, the Republicans are running the government, so we need to cover them.” And now? Uh, let’s see . . . “Well, the Republicans are the loyal opposition so we need to cover them.”
February 6th, 2009 at 1:32 pmI hear that republican’t lawmakers are also leading in appearances on America’s Funniest Home Videos too…
February 6th, 2009 at 1:34 pmSimple answer.
The democrats are doing what they were elected to do — providing oversight and debating and crafting legislation in the interest of the American people.
The republicans are selfishly doing the only things that they know how to do — detracting, distracting, pissing, moaning, lying and obstructing while they vainly try to regain power, credibility and their political future.
February 6th, 2009 at 1:37 pmdeebaser… you’re kidding right? The shows have booking agents. directed by the producers and hosts.
Remember when the GOP domination of the media of the last 8 years was ‘explained’ by the GOP’s majority status.
Well that took a significant hit in 2006 and has taken a bigger hit in 2009, yet lo and behold the new majority is now grossly under-represented.
Could it be that NOTHUING has changed in the MSM?
February 6th, 2009 at 1:39 pmWhy yes it could, because they aren’t subject to a democratic process, THEY don’t represent anything but their own interests, and they did VERY WELL when they tied themselves to the GOP.
If a Democrat speaks but the corporate media doesn’t cover it, does the Public hear what the Democrat has to say?
(My version of a tree falling in the forest…)
February 6th, 2009 at 1:41 pmSKdeA Says:
hello, FCC…
And can anyone tell me what exactly is wrong with bringing back the Fairness Doctrine? Or something like it?
________
Well, other than creating a nation-wide run and serious shortage of adult absorption products…
February 6th, 2009 at 1:41 pmYour fascist, corporatist mudstream media, hard at work, lying to the American people…
The pleasant little Obama fantasy about working with Republicans has finally been put to rest. No one can do business with this present bunch of insane rabid Republican morons. Most all of the Goopers are suffering from an extreme case of PBS (Post-Bush Syndrome). The are so used to being part of the Bush dictatorship that they are going nuts with the Democrats in control. The GOP is still playing the proverbial ostrich, with their heads in the Iraqi sands, pretending that they didn’t create this awful economic mess that grows larger, day by day…
February 6th, 2009 at 1:43 pmI’m glad MSNBC seems to be trying. *sigh*
February 6th, 2009 at 1:43 pmdeebaser Says:
I don’t know about this criticism of the media. Was it that Democrats aren’t being invited, or they aren’t making themselves available?
February 6th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
_________
It’s a good point. I’m also wondering about the broader picture – members of Congress aren’t the only people talking about the stimulus plan on the talking box. There are also economists and professors and market analysts and other experts giving interviews, and nearly all of the experts I hear are in favor of the stimulus bill. The only people I hear against it are Republican lawmakers and Heritage Foundation pundits.
I’m wondering if the pros and cons are more balanced if you widen the net of this study to include all voices being interviewed, not just members.
February 6th, 2009 at 1:44 pmNo. Republicans will just claim that any reporting of the report which disproves the myth of “liberal biased media” is proof of “liberal biased media”.
February 6th, 2009 at 1:45 pmRepublicans are not popular across America. that is a lie.
republicans are the reason congressional approval ratings have been so low, they are lower for republicans in congress than they are for bush.
February 6th, 2009 at 1:45 pmBring back the Fairness Doctrine and break down the media monopolies! Take back America!
February 6th, 2009 at 1:46 pmTell me more about the so-called “liberal media.”
The ones who can’t put a repugniscum on camera frequently enough, while cutting the rare Democratic interview to a sound bite.
I do believe there is a concerted conservative effort from the Capitol to the media working to stymie Obama and the Democrats. They (led by Norquist, Limbaugh, McCain et al) would prefer to see the nation continue to fail before they would see a Democratic president and Congress look good.
Sounds un-American to me.
February 6th, 2009 at 1:48 pmGive Republicans a credit.
Although they are minority party now,they are still able to continue doing some damage to Democrats.
Democrats need a new leadership in the Senate and the House.
Harry Reid showed that he can’t get anything passed in the Senate…whether Democrats minority or majority.
Yesterday,Republican leader Mitch.McConnell and compay were making their case to the media,the same with Shelby and others.
Where was Senator Harry Reid? !
February 6th, 2009 at 1:51 pmNo, let’s not bring back the Fairness Doctrine. I don’t want to listen to Sean Hannity on Air America. Let’s just break up the gigantic corporate media monopolies (as we should do in many other industries, as well) and return to more local control of our airwaves.
February 6th, 2009 at 1:51 pmBetween the repugs and their little screamer buddies we have a prime example of an ouroboros. Is it too much to ask that they finish their meal before they finish the country?
February 6th, 2009 at 1:52 pmSKdeA Says: hello, FCC… And can anyone tell me what exactly is wrong with bringing back the Fairness Doctrine? Or something like it?
The problem with the Fairness Doctrine is that it assumes in principle that argument X is as valid as argument Y.
I note you wrote on Crooks $ Liars Feb 6 2009:
“Don’t forget, McCain was born in Panama – he isn’t eligible to run as he wasn’t born in the USA.”
I think you are a bit out of your depth at the moment, but do stick around, there’s lots to learn here at TP.
February 6th, 2009 at 1:53 pmThis report is in error – if you add in the number of Democratic analysts and commentators, and then include the shows hosts themselves (who are biased Democrats) – the number comes out about even.
February 6th, 2009 at 1:53 pmSKdeA Says:
hello, FCC…
And can anyone tell me what exactly is wrong with bringing back the Fairness Doctrine? Or something like it?
February 6th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
It’s completely unnecessary and a de facto prior restraint on the media that would do more harm than good. Back in the days when there were five television channels, three newspapers, and a dozen radio stations in each market, you could make the argument that the “scarcity of the airwaves” demanded equal coverage. But in an era of 500-channel cable TV, satellite TV, HD Radio, Internet radio, blogs, and YouTube, one can hardly argue that the airwaves are scarce and that content must be regulated.
It’s also a system that’s ripe for abuse, as the door of “fairness” swings both ways. Must we have a science denier on TV every time there’s a story about warming in Antarctica? A creationist on the radio whenever a new species of dinosaur is discovered? A flat-Earther in the news every time the Shuttle launches into orbit?
February 6th, 2009 at 1:54 pmWell, of course this is just the corporate slimballs telling their people to crush the American Publics jobs so they can lower wages, because when there is massive unemployment they can do that as people will do anything to feed and house their families.
They DO NOT want America to recover from this near depression, it is their way of busting Unions and the will of the American Workers.
February 6th, 2009 at 1:55 pmSpeaking of the TeeVee and Democrats presence on it, Obama has GOT to get rid of Press Sec. Gibbs!!!
February 6th, 2009 at 1:58 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
This report is in error – if you add in the number of Democratic analysts and commentators, and then include the shows hosts themselves (who are biased Democrats) – the number comes out about even.
February 6th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
__________
Ahh, yes. Another believer in the “liberal media.”
Tell me, moron – if the show’s hosts are all biased Democrats, why are they accepting more Republicans as guests?
February 6th, 2009 at 1:59 pmDontTreadOnMe2009
prove it liar
February 6th, 2009 at 2:02 pmYou’re right, I am out of my depth, but learning to swim! I have been sticking around for about three years now…must be a slow learner.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:02 pmI was wrong about the laws on John McCain’s Panama birth, but it was pointed out to me. I imagine you missed that while scrolling through my past posts? My bad. And so off topic – your bad.
I think the idea of a Fairness doctrine was OK, I agree it would be annoying to have to listen to Sean on AA for instance, but if they actually had some real liberals on the unliberal shows, it might be worth it. But we would probably get stuck with the likes of Colmes. So I guess it’s a pipe dream.
As for taking down the corporate madia – good luck with that one. I am all for it, but I don’t think it will happen by us. Probably they will just become more and more irrelevant as people see they only offer one side of the story. Many of us are cases inpoint, we don’t watch the box anymore.
Ow. My head hurts.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:04 pmHere you go…
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/Media-Bias-Is-Real-Finds-UCLA-6664.aspx
There are plenty of reports about the media leaning left. Kudos to them for trying to balance out their own bias.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:08 pmAs me if I am surprised. Until Obama does something about the media consolidation that occurred over the last 8 years, the conservatives will continue to control the message. We don’t need an unenforceable fairness doctrine, we need to break up the media consolidation and go back to the rules before Clinton signed that bill, to his ever loving shame.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:11 pm…and another…
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-sheffield/2008/08/28/democrats-covering-democrats
February 6th, 2009 at 2:12 pmYeah, but the Obama administration also put out word not to work the press. Clearly this wasn’t smart. But it should be noted.
http://www.pufferfishblog.com/
February 6th, 2009 at 2:13 pmAre the differences statistically significant?
February 6th, 2009 at 2:14 pmThe bias is so blantant, even my husband picked up on it. I find myself watching ‘That 70’s Show’ and ‘Bernie Mac’. Kind of sad that the only news I can stomach is Keith Oberman and Rachel Maddow and C-Span!
February 6th, 2009 at 2:14 pmLiberal media?
Bullshite.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:15 pmand this one…
http://www.mediaresearch.org/biasbasics/biasbasics3.asp
Look – I don’t mind them having a slant – everyone has a right to their own opinion, but it shouldn’t interfere with their duty to report objectively.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:15 pmdeebaser Says:
I don’t know about this criticism of the media. Was it that Democrats aren’t being invited, or they aren’t making themselves available?
I can’t imagine that Democrats are not making themselves available. It has been this way for more than a decade and won’t change as long as three major conservative corporations own 90% of our media outlets. That’s what has to change.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:15 pmOh, I love that! Our little troll posting links to rabid rightwing sites like Newsbusters to “prove” the liberal media “bias”…
Oh, give me a break.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:16 pmAnd I’ll bet you think that Paul Krugman is just an “opinion columnist” too, eh, trollie2009?
February 6th, 2009 at 2:17 pmI’m suspect the theory behind this was one advanced by a sci-fi writer about how to write science fiction.
One basic premise was this: The reason little kids are more attracted to Darth Vader, (wanting to dress as him on Halloween, etc.) rather than, say, Luke Skywalker or Han Solo, is that Vader is proactive. Luke & Han are all reactive elements.
Characters such as Vader’s are as the galvanizing drop of water, with everyone else caught up reacting in the ripples created by the villain’s proactive drive.
Reaction is associated with weakness, pro-action is associated with strength, risk taking and bold resolute vision. Troublemakers are better press than virtuous lawmen.
The dems are reacting to the republicans’ outrageous behavior. They react to the republicans’ objections to the stimulus and react by capitulating. On the other hand, the republicans, regardless of the sheer incompetence, set up a strategy and impel others to react, and keep reacting. This is another reason why they are blocking Obama’s stimulus; they are acting, making Obama and the dems react.
It’s why the republicans wanted to forget their ‘08 drubbing so quickly, because they’d be reacting, so they essentially sought to proactively control and re-direct the dialogue with outrageous claims, distortions, etc., to return the narrative to something the dems would, once again, be put into the position of reacting to. This is the crux of the effectiveness of the republican noise machine.
Basically, to counter this momentum, the republicans have to be rocked back on their heels and kept there. They will not admit or acknowledge mistakes since that is a reaction, so the public/counter narrative must put their failures on heavy rotation. They must be forced to react and keep reacting.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:18 pm43, you ignore the fact that the individual journalists are not running the agenda, the corporations that control the media are…
Of course even if the cable news networks had 100% Republicans, you and your ilk would be whining about a liberal bias…in knee-jerk reaction fashion…
February 6th, 2009 at 2:19 pmLook Backside Annie,
I was called a liar and asked to prove my point that the media is full of Dems – I posted the newsbuster story for these facts…
Anderson Cooper is a registered Democrat.
Jeanie Moos is a registered Democrat.
Gloria Borger is a registered Democrat.
Jeanne Meserve is a registered Democrat.
Suzanne Malveaux is a registered Democrat.
Soledad O’Brien is a registered Democrat.
Prove me wrong – Backside Annie
February 6th, 2009 at 2:21 pmUCSB – sounds like you libs are the knee-jerkers lately – screaming about media bias!!!!!!
ha ha ha
February 6th, 2009 at 2:22 pmSKdeA…imagine you missed that while scrolling through my past posts?
I just found that one, didn’t review any others so I couldn’t in all fairness get my knickers in a twist about your comments. And I agree the Fairness Doctrine sounds reasonable, but it isn’t.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:23 pmIf you found my response to you facetious, that’s fair enough too, it was bit. But that’s a decent follow up of yours.
Of course my approval shouldn’t mean a hill of beans to you, but good for you, glad you are here. I learn a lot here too.
DontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
You quote a lying bastard to make your point? Good dog.
conservative blogger matthew sheffield
You have to have facts to convince thinking people. Oh yeah, you don’t do facts because they make you look like a liar….
February 6th, 2009 at 2:23 pmOoooh, trollie! A bit thin-skinned are you?
Tell me – how do those single journalists (who may very well be registered Democrats) CONTROL the programming on any single network, dipshite?
Duh.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:23 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/ portal/ ucla/ Media-Bias-Is-Real-Finds-UCLA-6664.aspx
There are plenty of reports about the media leaning left. Kudos to them for trying to balance out their own bias.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
____________
That study also found the Drudge Report to have a liberal bias and NPR to be mildly conservative.
I think it’s safe to say their methodology is flawed. It’s based on an arbitrary tally of citation of “left-leaning” and “right leaning” organizations. That doesn’t prove bias.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:24 pmFreddie boy,
I quoted Sheffield’s column for this fact…
Anderson Cooper is a registered Democrat.
Jeanie Moos is a registered Democrat.
Gloria Borger is a registered Democrat.
Jeanne Meserve is a registered Democrat.
Suzanne Malveaux is a registered Democrat.
Soledad O’Brien is a registered Democrat.
Prove me wrong – go ahead, make my day.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:24 pmYou have already done that. You are just a run of the mill liar. Add you to the ever larger pile of republican apologists…..it’s getting stinky in here, time to move the pile outside.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:25 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
For my money, we can’t get enough Republican’s on the air… the more people actually hear what Hannity and Rush are saying and how the elected R’s not only refuse to disavow it but actually slavishly embrace it the more people realize that the Republican party has no answers and no shame…
Keep Digging D.T.O.M.2009! The ‘Real’ America is with you!
(Unfortunately, your ‘Real’ America has as much relation to the actual America as MTV’s ‘Real World’ has to actual reality…)
February 6th, 2009 at 2:27 pmZooey Says:
I’m glad MSNBC seems to be trying. *sigh*
Since everything’s relative, I’m sure the wingnuts will use their near 50/50 reporting as PROOF! that they have a liberal agenda.
.
tarazan Says:
Give Republicans a credit.
Although they are minority party now,they are still able to continue doing some damage to Democrats.
What they’re doing damage to is America. I give them no credit.
.
DontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
This report is in error – if you add in the number of Democratic analysts and commentators, and then include the shows hosts themselves (who are biased Democrats) – the number comes out about even.
I bet it’d still be 2:1. If you’ve got some data to cite, we’d love to see it.
.
Doc Rock Says:
Bring back the Fairness Doctrine and break down the media monopolies! Take back America!
The fairness doctrine is retarded. If wingnuts hadn’t been conspiracy-theorizing that the left wanted it, you wouldn’t want it.
However, I do notice that in the last ten or so years there hasn’t been a merger that the FCC or FTC didn’t immediately rubber-stamp. That really needs to stop. Free markets work where there is competition. Constantly reducing competition hardly promotes free-market capitalism.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:27 pmWHY IS THIS EVEN ABOUT THE REPUBLICANS?
WTF are they getting so much air time for?
WE WON — tell them to shut up already!
February 6th, 2009 at 2:27 pmYou have proven nothing. When you prove something then you can demand…..until then. sucks to be you.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:27 pm50. Don’t project…it’s what you guys do all the time, crying about how liberals are victimizing the poor downtrodden conservatives…
Whining about
1. TEH GAYS
February 6th, 2009 at 2:29 pm2. HOW not oppressing TEH GAYS is hurting their freedom of speech
3. The MEDIA
4. affirmative action
5. environmentalists
6. those in favor of government regulation
7. those big, bad Democrats
8. OMG, LIBERALS prosecuting and martyring Christians…
9. TEH GAY MARRIAGE
10. unions
I listened to hanity yesterday crying about something the dems are doing to make it a balanced discussion….
you never heard such screaming and crying in your life. It was pathetic. I loved it.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:30 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
Anderson Cooper is a registered Democrat.
Jeanie Moos is a registered Democrat.
Gloria Borger is a registered Democrat.
Jeanne Meserve is a registered Democrat.
Suzanne Malveaux is a registered Democrat.
Soledad O’Brien is a registered Democrat.
That’s seven. Now shall we list the number of registered Republicans in cable news…?
.
DontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
Look – I don’t mind them having a slant – everyone has a right to their own opinion, but it shouldn’t interfere with their duty to report objectively.
I’d prefer if they kept a specific and clear division between news and opinion, the way that daily papers try to do. For example, FAUX News even goes so far as to politicize their “business reporting.
PS. I’m not going to check yet, I’ll just ask you for now: do your citations say what you said they say?
February 6th, 2009 at 2:31 pmNice – since you are out of arguments, now the namecalling starts – is that all you have??? so sad…
okay – here’s another “proof” for you non-believers
http://www.mediaresearch.org/biasbasics/biasbasics.asp
WHAT are you all so upset about???? You have the White House and the Congress – we can’t stop you… why all the complaining?
February 6th, 2009 at 2:32 pmhanshiro Says:
One basic premise was this: The reason little kids are more attracted to Darth Vader, (wanting to dress as him on Halloween, etc.) rather than, say, Luke Skywalker or Han Solo, is that Vader is proactive. Luke & Han are all reactive elements.
Characters such as Vader’s are as the galvanizing drop of water, with everyone else caught up reacting in the ripples created by the villain’s proactive drive.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
__________
Interesting theory, though I’d counter that Vader is a more popular costume because the wearer gets to don a black cape and a badass mask and carry a lightsaber, whereas Halloween Solos and Skywalkers have to wear a silly vest and a pathetic tunic, respectively.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:34 pmElBruce Says:
That’s seven. Now shall we list the number of registered Republicans in cable news…?
February 6th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
____________
As well as on the corporate boards and in upper management of GE, Viacom, Disney, and News Corporation. I suspect you’ll find a bunch of Republicans there.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:36 pmhussein toasterhead Says:
whereas Halloween Solos and Skywalkers have to wear a silly vest and a pathetic tunic, respectively.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
____________
And the “encased in carbonite” costume is just a lawsuit waiting to happen.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:38 pmYou must be new at this. We knew you would fall back on the poor me, I’m the victim routine…..did you learn that from booner the crybaby?
You’re of course right, we won. You will suffer and we are glad.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:38 pmHateFacts,
So you’re out of arguments and relegated to name-calling too? Come on, try a little harder – please show me the public education system has not created a bunch of inept epithet throwers who are all “full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”
February 6th, 2009 at 2:38 pmMore than two.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:41 pmThe “biased” stories and webpages you complain about contain links to legitimate research, studies and books – that is where the facts are, regardless of who reports them.
Go read the research results!
February 6th, 2009 at 2:41 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
Freddie boy,
I quoted Sheffield’s column for this fact…
Anderson Cooper is a registered Democrat.
Jeanie Moos is a registered Democrat.
Gloria Borger is a registered Democrat.
Jeanne Meserve is a registered Democrat.
Suzanne Malveaux is a registered Democrat.
Soledad O’Brien is a registered Democrat.
Prove me wrong – go ahead, make my day
You have proven that SIX talking heads are Democrats. This doesn’t prove anything in the way of bias in the news room.
SIX people? That’s all you’ve got?
OK – you have proven that SIX TV journalists are registered Democrats. Which means over the last few days about 12 times as many Republicans have appeared on TV to counter the massive influence of the SIX people you list above.
So, what is your point?
February 6th, 2009 at 2:42 pmPleaseStepOnMe2009 Says:
This report is in error – if you add in the number of Democratic analysts and commentators, and then include the shows hosts themselves (who are biased Democrats) – the number comes out about even.
__________
How about some factual back up, or is this more GOOP magical thinking… it’s true because I WANT IT to be true???
February 6th, 2009 at 2:42 pmSo it isn’t our imaginations. The media favor the Grumblers, Obstructionists & Panderers gang. I think this is a holdover from the insta-success of Faux News & the former popularity of the Big Fat Idiot. Other outlets thought hoisting the right-wind petard would help their own bottom line, and the suits are slow to notice the shifting tides.
The Constant Weader at http://www.RealityChex.com
February 6th, 2009 at 2:43 pmDontFreadOnMe2009,
February 6th, 2009 at 2:43 pmYou must be new here.
rhf calls everyone names, including progressives, so your pathetic attempt at being the poor CONservative victim does not fly.
Care to refute anything rhf has counter posted?
Care to actually debate instead of whining?
Hey – you guys are the ones b*tching about media bias without any facts other than # of guests over a finite period of time…
By the way – who finances TP? Who sits on their board?
Why don’t you pluck the log out of your eye before pointing out the speck in someone elses?
February 6th, 2009 at 2:43 pmHow much of this has to do with Democrats not having the guts to advocate for a massive stimulus bill?
February 6th, 2009 at 2:44 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
The “biased” stories and webpages you complain about contain links to legitimate research, studies and books – that is where the facts are, regardless of who reports them.
Go read the research results!
And your “haymaker” in this argument is naming a grand total of SIX news anchors/talking heads as registered Dems?
That argument is weaker than David VItter’s bladder during sexie times!
February 6th, 2009 at 2:44 pmDRxJ Says:
DontFreadOnMe2009,
You must be new here.
rhf calls everyone names, including progressives, so your pathetic attempt at being the poor CONservative victim does not fly.
Care to refute anything rhf has counter posted?
Care to actually debate instead of whining?
What debate? He named SIX people on TV news outlets who are REGISTERED DEMOCRATS!!!!
TAKE THAT!!!
February 6th, 2009 at 2:44 pmwho won the elections, hands down….hows life as a loser.
Oh, and your stats……there are credible resourses that show how the gop misuses stats….you know, like the one that said there were wmd’s or the economy is sound.
when is the era of prosperity that the gop and bush promised us as a result of tax cuts and deregulation going to kick in?
February 6th, 2009 at 2:45 pmplease show me the public education system has not created a bunch of inept epithet throwers who are all “full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”
How’s this?
As the above data shows, the idea of a ‘liberal media bias’ is ridiculous… it, like the idea of voter fraud, is a canard advanced by a party that can only win in general elections by suppressing voter turnout.
‘it is but a walking shadow, that struts and frets it’s hour upon the stage (see Cable News)… it is a tale told by an idiot (see any Right-Wing Media Personality) full of sound and fury, signifing nothing’ (see DTOM2009’s posts above)
February 6th, 2009 at 2:47 pmDontFreadOnMe2009,
Here, I’ll help ya.
Here’s a seventh one:
Dan Rather on HDNET.
He’s a Democrat, ain’t he?
That should bolster your debate.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:47 pmNow, get at it, son!
OK – since you tards apparently can’t read here is the info:
let’s start with this one…
a study in 1981, by S. Robert Lichter, then with George Washington University, and Stanley Rothman of Smith College –
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Media_Elite
http://www.aei.org/docLib/20071114_20071114RothmanandLichter.pdf
February 6th, 2009 at 2:48 pmhanshiro Says:
The dems are reacting to the republicans’ outrageous behavior. They react to the republicans’ objections to the stimulus and react by capitulating. On the other hand, the republicans, regardless of the sheer incompetence, set up a strategy and impel others to react, and keep reacting. This is another reason why they are blocking Obama’s stimulus; they are acting, making Obama and the dems react.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
__________
That’s one way of looking at it, but then aren’t the Republicans re-acting to the pro-action of Obama and the Democrats proposing the stimulus bill? The pro-action was an ambitious spending agenda, and the re-action is the nitpicking of every proposed priority.
I think the reason for the imbalance in coverage is a more simple adage – the squeaky wheel gets the grease. And there’s nobody in Washington who can squeak more loudly and irritatingly than the Republican members of Congress.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:49 pmThe cable networks are owned by corporate America and they are lining up all the stuck in the mud, failed GOP to give their talking points. I have one question for them: If your way worked so well, why the hell are we in the shape we are in? You guys lost because you failed at leadership. You know nothing about running the government.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:51 pmThe “era” you speak of Fred came to an end when the dems got Congress back in 2006 and wrecked the economy…
We had prosperity from 2000-2006 – in case you missed it…
February 6th, 2009 at 2:52 pmI’m sorry, I’m awfully confused. Did DontFread just offer as proof a study conducted 28 years ago?
February 6th, 2009 at 2:53 pmGeez, let’s find a study that proves how Beta tapes will be the next big thing, and how Intellivision will surpass Atari in sales!
DontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
OK – since you tards apparently can’t read here is the info:
You just cited a study about the 80s!
SEVEN registered DEMOCRATS and counting!!!! WOOHOOOO LIBRUL MEDIA!!!!
I’m hurt that someone as sophistacted as to quote Shakespeare would use the epithet “tard.”
For shame!
February 6th, 2009 at 2:53 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
OK – since you tards apparently can’t read here is the info:
__________
I went and looked at that website and it comes across as nonsense hoping to justify its agenda. Brent Bozell? Are you serious?Sorry… you’re going to have to do better than that.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:53 pm__________
Toasterhead has it right:
The Repubs are the squeaky wheel – the media always runs to where the noise is – and it is coming from the Republicans…
February 6th, 2009 at 2:54 pm65. DontTreadOnMe2009 Says: okay – here’s another “proof” for you non-believers http://www.mediaresearch.org/biasbasics..heehaw..heehaw...
From your link:
Bozell?? You’re sourcing from Bozell? Back away slowly, Tread….
February 6th, 2009 at 2:54 pmThe report cited at top actually counts the number of people who get facetime to return softballs on the TV. Not just the people hosting the shows. As FAUX News has demonstrated, you can weight a show heavily by inviting five radical right-wing guests on and giving them leading, neutral questions that they can bloviate on unchallenged. The host looks “neutral” (he didn’t say anything right-wing) but the selection of guests changes everything. Which is the whole point of the study above.
.
OK, I’ll check your citations out…
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/Media-Bias-Is-Real-Finds-UCLA-6664.aspx
First of all, this is from 2005. Second of all, it’s telling that they rate “how liberal” lawmakers are, as opposed to “how conservative.” This suggests that the group doing the ratings is biased. Thirdly, the assumption that the “average voter is at 50″ is clearly open to error. Sometimes discussion on an issue ranges further to the right or left than normal, and often the public has their own leaning. Fourthly, judging “similar citation patterns” is a subjective exercise in and of itself.
In fact, the study itself proves that merely counting a citation can give opposite results – the group that does these initial ratings, the ADA, is a liberal group. They are cited to produce a conservative conclusion. The conclusion assumes that you agree with the groups that you cite, but the study itself does not.
Note that they count the Drudge report as being “left-leaning” probably because it mentions Democrats more often than it mentions Republicans. But it mentions them in a negative light, something this study didn’t take into account.
.
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-sheffield/2008/08/28/democrats-covering-democrats
Ugh, newsbusters. You might as well have me citing a study by moveon.org. In fact, there is no study here, just your list of six cable news hosts and reporters who are registered Democrats. As I mentioned before, I could list more Republicans than that.
.
http://www.mediaresearch.org/biasbasics/biasbasics.asp
I stopped right there. Donttread, the post at top is about last week, not the 80’s. FAUX News didn’t even exist back then.
This also counts reporters, but not editors, publishers or owners.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:54 pmThis is like saying “hey – you guys are b*tching about this so-called bad economy without any facts other than record unemployment and home foreclosures, a tanking stock market and financial sector.”
In other words… “hey – you guys are b*tching about media bias without any facts other than… well… facts.”
February 6th, 2009 at 2:55 pmTwedster – you know what they say… when in Rome, speak like a Roman!
February 6th, 2009 at 2:56 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
The “era” you speak of Fred came to an end when the dems got Congress back in 2006 and wrecked the economy…
We had prosperity from 2000-2006 – in case you missed it…
Dude, how some numbers to back this up? LMAO…this oughtta be good.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:56 pmYou mean the bubble was building caused by gop fiscal policies…….
Which is it by the way, was that a do nothing congress or was it responsible, you can’t have it both ways liar.
still waiting for you to tell us when that era of prosperity caused by tax cuts and deregulation is supposes to roll in.
got nothing? I had already figured that out as had everyone here. You can’t win but you can play like you can…..
February 6th, 2009 at 2:57 pmWonder Llama – three days of coverage do not an argument make.
OK – they were biased with respect to # of guests over a three day period – big frickin deal.
Anyone care to look into how many fuzzy stories they did about Prez Obama? How about the softball “interviews” done over that same period.
Talk about cherry picking, TP is the Master!
February 6th, 2009 at 2:58 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
Twedster – you know what they say… when in Rome, speak like a Roman!
Touche! I always thought Romans speak Italian, but maybe it was different in the 80s…
February 6th, 2009 at 2:58 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
The “era” you speak of Fred came to an end when the dems got Congress back in 2006 and wrecked the economy…
We had prosperity from 2000-2006 – in case you missed it…
__________
You are joking, right? Right?
You’re actually stating that the entire economic mess we’re in ISN’T the result of eights of BotchCo’s policies, BUT, did all come about in just 2 years?
Sorry, but it’s simply impossible to NOT LAUGH at you when you make claims like this, Tiretread…
February 6th, 2009 at 2:58 pmThe Republicans always seem to be the “squeaky wheel”.
How come no one in the media considers those who opposed the Iraq misadventure as “squeaky wheels”?
February 6th, 2009 at 2:59 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
Twedster – you know what they say… when in Rome, speak like a Roman!
___________
So… when you’re in Athens… well… you know.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:59 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
Anyone care to look into how many fuzzy stories they did about Prez Obama? How about the softball “interviews” done over that same period.
Talk about cherry picking, TP is the Master!
Why don’t you inform us stat-master?
While you are at, please give us some indicators that demonstrate the “salad days” of the US economy, circa 200 to 2006.
Thanks!
February 6th, 2009 at 3:00 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
How come no one in the media considers those who opposed the Iraq misadventure as “squeaky wheels”?
___________
Because they were “traitors”, Ralphie… most likely cheese-eatin’, Froggy-hugging Commies who hate America! Geez, even I knew the answer to that one.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:00 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
The “era” you speak of Fred came to an end when the dems got Congress back in 2006 and wrecked the economy…
We had prosperity from 2000-2006 – in case you missed it…
February 6th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
____________
“The airplane was flying just fine until it crashed into that mountain.”
February 6th, 2009 at 3:01 pmDontFread,
February 6th, 2009 at 3:02 pmHere’s one, dated back to 2006 and NOT THINKPROGRESS
Tweedster Says:
While you are at, please give us some indicators that demonstrate the “salad days” of the US economy, circa 200 to 2006.
_______
1800 years of data? Bit of a point spread there, Tweedster…
But while we’re at it, let’s talk about the amount of air time right wing radio commentators get compared to lefties.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:02 pmRepublicans are just pissed because Obama refused to name a Chief Regressive Officer. Don’tReadOrWrite2009 was hoping to join the staff.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:03 pmIs it strange that when I scroll down past DTOM09’s comments, that hot air starts coming out of my disc drive?
February 6th, 2009 at 3:04 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
The “era” you speak of Fred came to an end when the dems got Congress back in 2006 and wrecked the economy…
We had prosperity from 2000-2006 – in case you missed it…
Yeah, I did. We had never recovered from the dotcom bubble that blew the day after Bush was appointed to the Presidency by the SCOTUS. It was just limping along the whole time while we all hid under our blankets from the terrists. I don’t know of anyone who considers 2001-2007 a time of prosperity.
But then whatever gains had been made got blown all to hell due to deregulatory bills passed way before then, as well as people who were supposed to enforce what laws there were refusing to do their jobs (that last part would be the Executive branch, by the way). When you appoint industry lobbyists who believe their industries shouldn’t be regulated in charge of the agencies tasked to regulate those industries, what you get is people intentionally “asleep at the switch.”
There’s nothing that happened in congress between 2007 and 2009 that caused any of this. In fact, some Democrats were warning of exactly this in 2006. As Obama put it, the crisis had already hit Main Street before Wall Street suffered the effects. But Congress was in no position to do anything to prevent it, due to Republican obstructionism.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:04 pmThe Republic of Stupidity Says:
1800 years of data? Bit of a point spread there, Tweedster…
But while we’re at it, let’s talk about the amount of air time right wing radio commentators get compared to lefties.
Hey, if DontMakeNoSense wants to reach back for his media bias studies, I want to see how far he is willing to go.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:05 pmIt does, the opinion of a well-meaning, left-leaning person valued!
Thanks.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:06 pmREPORT: GOP Lawmakers Outnumber Dem Lawmakers By Almost 2 To 1 In Cable News Stimulus Debate Again»
Not only in cable news, but ABC news heard on kgo.com and progressive radio also has a propaganda bias bent towards GOP…. and callers to kgo are taking notice.
This is an outrage as the general public has no clue to the urgency of Obama’s plea of getting the stimulus bill passed.
So obvious that the corporate media uses the obstructionist party as their mouth piece to strengthen corporate growth… a growth media,health care, insurance, defense, big pharma are all connected with.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:06 pm125 – that is a lie.
just cuz you type it in italics doesn’t make it so.
you are all ignorant liars
February 6th, 2009 at 3:07 pmTweedster Says:
Hey, if DontMakeNoSense wants to reach back for his media bias studies, I want to see how far he is willing to go.
_________
Okay… that’s reasonable. I had to ask… you understand, I’m sure.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:07 pmWhy don’t you libs take the hands-off approach: the economy will recover when rich republicans are in a better mood, meaning that all the peasants begging at the front door of Roger Ailes compound (trolls included) will eventually receive a bucket of bread crumbs for their persistence.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:08 pm93. hussein toasterhead Says: That’s one way of looking at it, but then aren’t the Republicans re-acting to the pro-action of Obama and the Democrats proposing the stimulus bill? The pro-action was an ambitious spending agenda, and the re-action is the nitpicking of every proposed priority.
Nope. The reaction was treating the republicans like a force to be answered to. This was done right out of the gate by capitulating to them several aspects of the bill. Then the republicans went out in force and are forcing Obama to answer their criticism. (Remember when Rick Warren responded to the criticism over the inauguration flap? That was viewed as a sort of victory to those stirring the criticism, making him have to respond.)
Right now, the dems are not blanketing the airwaves with documented failure after failure and discrediting the republicans. Citing Boehner’s past gaffes & idiocy, thereby diffusing his ability to dictate policy to Obama would be a good start.
Childish? You bet, but Boehner would have to respond, as with the old chestnut about Lindon Johnson:
During LBJ’s first congressional race, when he supposedly told his campaign manager to begin circulating the rumor that his main opponent, a pig farmer, was practicing animal husbandry a bit too literally.
“Jesus, Lyndon,” the campaign manager was said to have responded. “Nobody’s going to believe that.”
“Yeah,” quoth LBJ, “but I want to hear the SOB deny it.”
Same principle.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:08 pmHere’s an interesting mention of that Bozell guy donttread was citing:
So this is the guy who runs the Media Research Center all these “studies” are coming from?
February 6th, 2009 at 3:08 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
you are all ignorant liars
____________
Oh My God… the blanket condemnation… we’re ALL ignorant liars…
Sniff… sniff… it must be true, or Tiretread wouldn’t have said it…
How, o how… did we ALL go so wrong… sniff… sniff…
February 6th, 2009 at 3:08 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
125 – that is a lie.
just cuz you type it in italics doesn’t make it so.
you are all ignorant liars
Hahahaha…ummm…takes one to know one? How do you say that in Roman? Gimme some of that ole LIBRUL LINGUA FRANCA!!!
Do you know that the approval rating of the Democratic Congress in 212AD hovered around 100% until Democracy was invented?
Hey Don’tBother – why you tread over to your nearest library and rent a brain!
February 6th, 2009 at 3:10 pmthe right wing is all a dither about this issue. Panties in a wad. talk about the sound of fury denoting nothing…heh.
The trolls swarmed this issue because it’s coming down around thier heads……
February 6th, 2009 at 3:10 pmThat “prosperity” was all built on borrowed money. Not just an exploding federal deficit — not just illusory “wealth created by inflated home values — it was built on consumer spending that outstripped earning.
The national savings rate for both 2005 and 2006 was negative, meaning Americans spent more than we earned, two years in a row.
The last time that happened? 1932-33.
Yeah, some “prosperity” ya got there.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:10 pmThe Republic of Stupidity Says:
DontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
you are all ignorant liars
____________
Oh My God… the blanket condemnation… we’re ALL ignorant liars…
Sniff… sniff… it must be true, or Tiretread wouldn’t have said it…
How, o how… did we ALL go so wrong… sniff… sniff…
He has a study commissioned by Jack Benny’s caddie in 1954 top prove it!
February 6th, 2009 at 3:10 pmDontFreadOnMe2009 Says:
125 – that is a lie.
just cuz you type it in italics doesn’t make it so.
you are all ignorant liars
You’re so cute when you blow an aneurysm!
February 6th, 2009 at 3:10 pmHey, don’t swing with the big dawgs if you ain’t prepared for battle.
El Bruce…
You mean industry lobbyists like Daschle, Panetta, et al.?
February 6th, 2009 at 3:11 pmDon’tBotherMeWithReality is really sensitive.
Draw a bubblebath, have a milano, and just lay back dreaming of the opulent era of prosperity we enjoyed a mere three years ago. You will feel better!
February 6th, 2009 at 3:12 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
El Bruce…
You mean industry lobbyists like Daschle, Panetta, et al.?
Just because you use Latin phrases does not make it so stupid sounding.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:12 pmWeren’t you just chastising us for calling you names? Now you have confirmed that you are a liar and a hypocrite. Guess we were right about you all along.
still waiting for you to answer just one of our questions. When can we expect the era of prosperity from bush’s tax cuts and deregulation to kick in?
February 6th, 2009 at 3:12 pmElBruce Says:
So this is the guy who runs the Media Research Center all these “studies” are coming from?
____________
Shhhh, ElBruce. Tiretread is getting ready for his big finale.
He’s thrown out the blanket condemnation (… you are all ignorant liars… ). All that’s left is the self-serving “Statement of Victimhood” (if this how you tread people who come here to debate?) and he’ll be off to Redstate or LGF to brag about how he put all them dirty stinkin’ libruls in their places.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:13 pmMwommy!!!!!!!!! THE MEDIA IS WIBTIZED!!!!!!!!
February 6th, 2009 at 3:13 pmFred Says:
still waiting for you to answer just one of our questions. When can we expect the era of prosperity from bush’s tax cuts and deregulation to kick in?
Aren’t you listening? you missed out! where were you while we were getting mired in Iraq after 9/11?
good times!
February 6th, 2009 at 3:14 pmYou people are amazing!
I make a point and am called a liar.
You make a point and it is “The Truth”
I am called a liar and “it is so”
I call you a liar and “I blow an aneurysm.”
You have control of the government and can’t seem to get something done.
You people are disfunctional hypocrites.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:14 pmTROS,
February 6th, 2009 at 3:15 pm60 seconds.
Good call my man
Good call
Tweedster Says:
Is it strange that when I scroll down past DTOM09’s comments, that hot air starts coming out of my disc drive?
__________
If you light a match, the smell will go away immediately.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:17 pmI won’t be told that this decade has been anything other than prosperity leading to debt, growing income inequality and lagging income growth, and soaring college costs leading to more debt.
We’re a nation of IOUs, and republicans wouldn’t know the first damn thing about economic growth (without leading to implosion) or prosperity (450% payday loan, anybody?).
February 6th, 2009 at 3:17 pmWell, at least I can make arguments as well as calling you names.
You only seem to succeed at the latter.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:17 pmAlls Im saying is that while the democrats are doing their jobs and working on this legislation, the republicans have nothing better to do than to cry on any media outlet that will have them.
I mean honestly, what ELSE is on their agenda?
February 6th, 2009 at 3:18 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
You screwed it up. You don’t know how to fixe it. You lost. You need to step to the back of the bus. You are a minority. Voting for the people who screwed it up doesn’t qualify you to tell anyone anything. Now move along.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:19 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
Well, at least I can make arguments as well as calling you names.
You only seem to succeed at the latter.
There’s no arguing your stupidity, son. You have removed all doubt. Those who can’t do, work as obstructionists.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:19 pmdysfunctional hypocrites wage war on the basis of non-existant wmd’s and other lies.
dysfunctional hypocrites say “the fundamentals of the economy are strong” when we all knew at the time that it was a lie..
should I continue?
about that era of prosperity mr hypocrite? Nothing?
February 6th, 2009 at 3:19 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
125 – that is a lie.
just cuz you type it in italics doesn’t make it so.
If you’d care to shift to citing studies regarding economic performance during the Bush years (even excluding the recent collapse), we’ll be happy to go there.
.
DontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
You mean industry lobbyists like Daschle, Panetta, et al.?
Yes, but mainly people who had been working for the very corporations they were supposed to regulate. At all levels of government. By the hundreds. Maybe thousands.
It wasn’t just about the people approved at the top, though. It was also that they had the ability to hire more of their corporate cronies, cascading the practice throughout the Executive branch. We can name a few ex-lobbyists that Obama has approved to be in government; I’d have a hard time naming a few (especially in regulatory positions) that worked for Bush who weren’t ex-lobbyists.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:19 pmThe Fair Ness Doctrine is the tool of a socialist organization and isn’t close to anything we need in the U S of A. Let those being critical of the new reports reflect on those who are best qualified to know what a trillion extra debt will do to the U S of A and they are all against the Package.
We need to reflect on our fundamental principals of freedom to see behind the real motives of the Democrats which is enslave us now and for years to come to a U S Debt that kills all those of us who work hard every day to get ahead. Those who have their hand out will get what they deserve which is a new social government. God Bless America and keep the term of those who want to kill our freedoms very short.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:19 pmTRoS demonstrates the value of years of experience whacking trolls. He’s developed a finely-honed instinct for tracking their jerky movements which, to the untrained eye, can look positively spasmodic.
I doff my chapeau to you, TRoS.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:20 pm#150
February 6th, 2009 at 3:20 pmI sort of like that poem. Are you a poet? I am really curious and not jerking you around
DontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
You people are amazing!
Thanks! I like outdoors as well!
I make a point and am called a liar.
I conceded your point that there are 6 registered Dems on the major news networks. What’s your beef, Stu?
You make a point and it is “The Truth”
The TRUTH part is that your point wasn’t supported by anything other than a study from the 80s, and SIX whole news personalities who are Dems…not so, pointy, shall we say.
I am called a liar and “it is so”
Make it so, it is so, blah blah blah…cut the Imperial-speak chief. It is jiver than jive.
I call you a liar and “I blow an aneurysm.”
Touch a nerve there?
You have control of the government and can’t seem to get something done.
Hmmm…interesting point of view.
You people are disfunctional hypocrites.\
You are a MEANIE!!!!
February 6th, 2009 at 3:20 pm132. DontTreadOnMe2009 Says: you are all ignorant liars
You’re all worthless and weak!! Now drop and give me twenty…
February 6th, 2009 at 3:20 pm~Doug Neidermeyer
This clearly isn’t the place for legitimate political dialogue…
It is the playground equivalent of trash talk to intimidate and humiliate.
You people can’t even be gracious winners – at least Obama has a little class.
What a bunch of whiney-assed hate-mongering conservaphobes!!!!
February 6th, 2009 at 3:21 pmjimday poops:
God Bless America and keep the term of those who want to kill our freedoms very short.
Irony is lost on Republicans…
February 6th, 2009 at 3:21 pmThe blue team SUCKS at framing/controlling the narrative. That’s why the red team was able to get people to vote against their interests for so long.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:21 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
This clearly isn’t the place for legitimate political dialogue…
It is the playground equivalent of trash talk to intimidate and humiliate.
You people can’t even be gracious winners – at least Obama has a little class.
What a bunch of whiney-assed hate-mongering conservaphobes!!!!
Two-snaps and a head-roll girlfriend!!! SMACK DADDY!!!
February 6th, 2009 at 3:22 pmAnyone can make “arguments” if you’re not concerned with making sense.
It’s like whacking a tennis ball against a chain link fence and claiming you “play tennis”.
And by the way, was that another blanket condemnation there at the end?
February 6th, 2009 at 3:22 pmDontFreadOnMe2009 Says:
I call you a liar and “I blow an aneurysm.”
Well, I hope at least he had the class to buy you dinner and a movie!
February 6th, 2009 at 3:23 pmexpect a lot of emails jimmy….you by the way, don’t get to decide anymore, you failed to succeed and now others will decide. Whine and cry, that is your fate.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:24 pmjimday_44236@yahoo.com Says:
Just think, we have a President who did his homework before handling the plan of attack on this criminal and then obtained the information to keep us safe. This is exactly what the President should do and not just send the criminals of to do more harm the the USA. I do hope the next President thinks of us, US citizens first and does all he can do the insure we remain free. Or will be allow Islam to over take the Christians and the ACLU will be the final say on how to keep us safe. We pray not..
I am so very happy to have been a citizen, served well by George W. Bush, and we wish him well as he goes back to his home in Texas.
MISSION ACCOMPISHED
God Bless the U S A
February 6th, 2009 at 3:24 pmJanuary 12th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
We need to pay attention to this one, guys… he typed in BOLD!
February 6th, 2009 at 3:24 pmBoth parties are CORRUPTED by power – chock full of lobbyists, abusive of the power they have, and basically a bunch of pompous as*ses.
Aren’t you tired of the government mortgaging your future and your kids future so we can “re-sod the mall in DC?”
February 6th, 2009 at 3:24 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
You people are amazing!
I make a point and am called a liar.
You make a point and it is “The Truth”
I am called a liar and “it is so”
I call you a liar and “I blow an aneurysm.”
You have control of the government and can’t seem to get something done.
You people are disfunctional hypocrites.
Tell me, oh wise critic, what is that President Obama and Congress haven’t achieved that they’re not currently working on in the face of GOP truncation and obstructionism? I don’t like making excuses, but boy, I have always thought eerily of those who deliberately stand in the way, offer to be no part of the solution, and then complain, What’s the holdup?
Second, if you spent eight years at my hypothetical political consulting firm misleading clients, what further incentive would I have to keep you?
February 6th, 2009 at 3:26 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
What a bunch of whiney-assed hate-mongering conservaphobes!!!!
Oh LORDY! Don’tMakeMeCry is whistling like a tea kettle!!! Get ready for a severe tongue-lashing!!!!!!!
February 6th, 2009 at 3:27 pmwell, to be fair, you really haven’t tried…
Um, no. I think you meant to say “it is the internet equivalent to playground trash talk”. Or something like that. Or did you actually mean what you typed?
At least you’ve admitted that you’ve gotten your butt beat here. That shows a little potential for growth.
It’s a good thing you’re not into name-calling. Otherwise that could have gotten hurtful.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:27 pmAh come on llama-brain,
I thought we weren’t supposed to complain about epithets.
did you miss that memo?
February 6th, 2009 at 3:27 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
jimday_44236@yahoo.com Says:
We need to pay attention to this one, guys… he typed in BOLD!
That means he must be serious.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:28 pmHey news organisations!!!!:
Who cares what the Rethuglicans think? They’re busy putting up “same ol’ same ol’” tax cut only packages for the rich that have worked so well up to now. They know these will fail, but they’re pretty much lock-step voting for this garbage. This is their idea of “negotiation”. And this is their model for “tactics”. I say screw ‘em, and ignore ‘em, and let’s listen to the adults from now on.
Digby has the gist of the proper attitude, as eloquently stated by John Cole.
Cheers,
February 6th, 2009 at 3:28 pm165. DontTreadOnMe2009 Says: This clearly isn’t the place for legitimate political dialogue…
It is if you don’t cite extremely biased, discredited sources like Bozell. Then, you’re just dogmeat.
It is the playground equivalent of trash talk to intimidate and humiliate.
Like calling everyone here liars?
You people can’t even be gracious winners..
Yay! We ‘won’ the opportunity to clean up bush’s toxic sewage spill which the republicans keep prying open the valves on….let me repeat: yay!
What a bunch of whiney-assed hate-mongering conservaphobes!
“It is the playground equivalent of trash talk to intimidate and humiliate.”
Repeat as necessary..
February 6th, 2009 at 3:29 pmI took a look at the UCLA media bias study Don’t tread was citing. There are a few problems with the study, but it is a difficult subject. First problem is that their definition of neutral is based on the mean bias of the 1995-2000 congress, that would be starting after the 1994 election of radical right freshman. SO if you are left of average person in a group dominated by hard-right wingers, by their definition you are liberal.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:29 pmThe second problem is that their measure of bias appears to depend on congress persons actually citing their sources. We may actually be measuring a phenomenon that “liberals” attribute their sources or better research their positions. The Heritage foundation’s score wouldn’t shift unless Tom Delay actually used their name or quoted from their materials. A note about this, is that in their measure, the ACLU ranked as a conservative organization because Mitch McConnell kept bringing up their opposition to McCain-Feingold.
Thirdly, the team of student researchers coding the data drew evenly from declared democrats and republicans. However, if the republican students already perceive a media bias, it will show up in their coding, no matter how rigorous. And the authors note that conservatives believe more strongly in media bias than liberals.
There are probably more problems with this study, but I don’t have time to dig into it too much. It is difficult research to do, and the authors did work hard to utilize a good methodology, but they draw too hard a conclusion from their study (they are economists) than the data and the limits of the methods really support.
Jesus H. Christ, Troll2009, you’re not only colossally stupid – but dayum, yer smokin’ crack, too.
Prolly not a good idea to fry the 2 remaining brain cells you have left there, sweetie….
February 6th, 2009 at 3:29 pmAnyone who honestly looks at the posts can see that the level of conversation was lowered by losers here who have no argument other than to tear someone down who disagrees (you guys woulda made great Nazis!!!!!!)
If you want to have a real debate – I’m open to it.
If you want to ridicule and call names – I’m up for that too.
Let me know.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:31 pmjimday_44236@yahoo.com Says:
The Fair Ness Doctrine is the tool of a socialist organization and isn’t close to anything we need in the U S of A.
Jeebus, dial down the boldface, willya?
I agree we shouldn’t have a fairness doctrine.
.
jimday_44236@yahoo.com Says:
Let those being critical of the new reports reflect on those who are best qualified to know what a trillion extra debt will do to the U S of A and they are all against the Package.
I would prefer if the Republican party hadn’t already run up an extra trillion in debt and then destroyed the economy, necessitating this. If by “people who are best qualified” you mean economists, most of them are for it.
But somehow I think you were really referring to Rush and Bill O’Rly.
.
jimday_44236@yahoo.com Says:
We need to reflect on our fundamental principals of freedom to see behind the real motives of the Democrats which is enslave us now and for years to come to a U S Debt that kills all those of us who work hard every day to get ahead. Those who have their hand out will get what they deserve which is a new social government.
Where were you when Bush was running up the debt so he could go to a war that he lied to get us into? Where were you when Reagan originally cranked the national debt sky high? Where were you when Bush was nationalizing and bailing out the banks who had their hands out? Where are you now when the Republican party is balking at CEO pay caps for those bailed out banks with their hands out?
So now all of a sudden, Democrats need some money to fix the mess your people made, and now you’re putting on blue face paint and running around in a kilt screaming “FREEEEDOOMMMM!!!”
.
jimday_44236@yahoo.com Says:
God Bless America and keep the term of those who want to kill our freedoms very short.
Hear hear! Here’s to fewer Republicans in office in 2010.
.
DontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
This clearly isn’t the place for legitimate political dialogue…
It is the playground equivalent of trash talk to intimidate and humiliate.
What are you gonna do? You gonna cry? Huh? Cry for me.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:31 pmOkay that’s close to a fair point. The truth of the matter is that the national mall requires maintanence and the $200 million is also to be used for the construction of facilities on the national mall.
We need to stimulate the economy through government spending Landscapers and construction crews don’t work for free. sod doesn’t grow on trees (lol), it needs to be purchased.
That and 200 million dollars is hardly something to get into a huff about when we’re talking about a 800 billion dollar package. Hell, we LOST 60 times that in Iraq and didn’t get so much as a kickball field out of it.
(By LOST I mean, we have no idea what happened to pallettes of 12 billion dollars)
February 6th, 2009 at 3:32 pmdeebaser Says:
The blue team SUCKS at framing/controlling the narrative. That’s why the red team was able to get people to vote against their interests for so long.
Good afternoon, deebaser. I believe consistency is defined by the republicans as seeing everything in black-and-white. Voters have had a tendency to fall for that. We need to see the electorate consistently take the time to understand what led from point A to point B before casting their ballot. 2008 was a great start.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:32 pmMan. Sourcing hysterically shrieking wingnut Brent Bozell and Newsbusters.
And …it expects us to take it seriously.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
February 6th, 2009 at 3:32 pmYeah, I missed that memo. I was still stuck on this comment:
February 6th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
Hey Backside Annie,
If I got two braincells, then I’ve got two more than anyone here.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:33 pm#
DontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
If you want to have a real debate – I’m open to it.
Then why don’t you seriously support your contention that the US was prosperous from 2001-2006? That was asked a couple of times and you ignored the question completely.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:34 pmCrap, next thing you know, it’ll be quoting JOE THE PLUMBER.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!
And trollie2009? “Backside Annie”?
So, tell me, who is indulging in the juvenile playground name-calling and suchlike…? Hmmm…?
February 6th, 2009 at 3:35 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
Hey Backside Annie,
If I got two braincells, then I’ve got two more than anyone here.
Ladies and germs, Don’tMakeMeLaughOutLoud will be opening for Dennis Miller at the Laugh-In in Pensacola, FL on February 14.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:35 pm#31 5th Estate Says:
Speaking of the TeeVee and Democrats presence on it, Obama has GOT to get rid of Press Sec. Gibbs!!!
Oh. So you watched The Daily Show too….
I agree.
Cheers,
February 6th, 2009 at 3:35 pmBut it makes it so easy to whack you.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:36 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
Anyone who honestly looks at the posts can see that the level of conversation was lowered by losers here who have no argument other than to tear someone down who disagrees (you guys woulda made great Nazis!!!!!!)
Don’t worry, little buddy, we will try and not hold that against you.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:36 pmjimday_44236@yahoo.com Says:
The Fair Ness Doctrine is the tool of a socialist organization and isn’t close to anything we need in the U S of A.
Hmmm. Is that related to the Loch Ness Doctrine…?
February 6th, 2009 at 3:36 pmRe-sodding the mall is just one of the ridiculous projects that add up to a helluva lot of money.
CBO estimates that each “job created” will cost $300,000 to create it.
Such efficiency – you sure you wanna let these guys spend YOUR money?
February 6th, 2009 at 3:36 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
If you want to have a real debate – I’m open to it.
Then why don’t you seriously support your contention that the US was prosperous from 2001-2006? That was asked a couple of times and you ignored the question completely.
Well?
February 6th, 2009 at 3:37 pmBeats the clowns we have had to date, retread.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:38 pmUnfortunately, all evidence says that while you may be open to it, you’re not really capable.
Citing biased sources, making unsupported allegations, failing to address direct questions… these are indications of an inherent resistance to open, honest debate.
But that “Nazi” reference really upped your credibility.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:39 pmI will answer cogent points with the same.
And I will answer juvenile name-calling and such with epithets and ad hominem attacks of my own.
Fair is fair. If you can’t take the heat, get outta the kitchen – If I’m gonna get hit, I’ll hit back and take the 5 minutes in the box for fighting.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:40 pmralph –
But that “Nazi” reference really upped your credibility.
how do you say “credibility” in Roman?
February 6th, 2009 at 3:40 pmLlama boy,
And what was your “un-biased” source for your argument?
Or are you unable to make a legitimate point based upon your own criteria?
February 6th, 2009 at 3:41 pmDon’t tread on me, you do have a right to believe whatever you want to believe. It is America. However, both sides often resort to name-calling. I happen to think that conservatives often resemble “Nazis” as you so eloquently put it. Don’t tell people to stop petty name-calling and then resort to it yourself. In response one of your earlier posts about news show hosts being democrats, honestly, you must not watch fox news very often. You seem to have forgotten about Bill O’Reilly, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, etc.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:41 pmAfter all, everyone knows that a solid political debater needs to be able to call his opponent a “Nazi” now and then. Heck, Bill Buckley used to do it three or four times a night back on “Firing Line”. Always raises the level of discourse.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:42 pmAmong other questions you were asked in all seriousness and you just ignored in lieu of namecalling was:
when can we expect the era of prosperity to kick in that bush and the gop promised as a result of tax cuts and deregulation.
no more bullshit. If you want a discussion, it is here for you. If you continue as you have in every other post in this thread then you will be treated with the distain that you have legitimatly earned.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:42 pmE tu Brute, then fall Caesar.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:42 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
(you guys woulda made great Nazis!!!!!!)
The Nazis were right wingers.
.
DontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
If you want to have a real debate – I’m open to it.
Then just do it and quit whining. But it seems obvious you have nothing substantive left to say. You posted your links, and now you’re done.
That’s the problem with wingnuts. They have a pretty good serve, but if you return it they’ve got no game.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:42 pm198. DontTreadOnMe2009 Says: Re-sodding the mall is just one of the ridiculous projects that add up to a helluva lot of money.
Unless it’s being done for free, someone is getting paid…jobs is the name of the game.
CBO estimates that each “job created” will cost $300,000 to create it.
Of course they do. So, how many jobs did we get for our $700 Billion that bush gave to the banks and mega corporations? “Such efficiency – you sure you wanna let these guys spend YOUR money?”
February 6th, 2009 at 3:42 pm198 – better than letting fatcat Repukes STEAL it.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:42 pm$700 BILLION.
How many jobs did we get for that, Tread?
February 6th, 2009 at 3:43 pmAll evidence to the contrary, of course…
Well, it’s good to know you have no standards of your own that you’re willing to uphold.
Maybe you could take those five minutes and read up on the “prosperity” that the Bush years have wrought, huh? Thanks.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:44 pmTweed,
Be glad to – what source would you like? I need to pick an “unbiased” source, so tell me what is acceptable here?
February 6th, 2009 at 3:44 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
I will answer cogent points with the same.
Well then, when and how did we enjoy the great prosperity of Bush’s tax incentives from 2001 until 2007.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:44 pmPlease cite specific examples.
Thank you in advance for your well thought out, intelligent research that will contain no negative remarks or name calling.
And Trollie2009, you never did respond to my comment that yes, so what if there are 6 single journalists who are registered Democrats…
I asked you how many of them CONTROL THE NETWORK PROGRAMMING.
Any answers…?
February 6th, 2009 at 3:45 pmYou haven’t so far. You started with ad hominem attacks, remember? Do I need to repost your opening salvo and discredit it again?
We’re still waiting for you to live up to your stated purpose…..to respond in kind to our questions.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:45 pm$720 Million a day for the Iraq war.
How many jobs a day are we getting for that cash Tread?
February 6th, 2009 at 3:46 pmpersonally, i’d like to see five repukies doing the news circuit per one democrat on this issue. that way, americans could see continually, in technicolor that repukes have nothing but disdain for the american people. it will be the final nail in this anachronistic party’s coffin.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:47 pmhanshiro Says:
$720 Million a day for the Iraq war.
How many jobs a day are we getting for that cash Tread?
Undertakers, counselors, medical professionals come immediately to mind.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:47 pmI would have thought you would be able to recognize that I was criticizing your own claim of being “open” for “real debate”. I made no claims of my own ability or willingness, preferring instead to let my comments speak for themselves.
I see that once your credibility has been challenged, your defense is to attack the credibility of your challenger, even though you have little if anything on which to base that attack. I guess that makes sense if one’s credibility is essentially indefensible.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:48 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
I will answer cogent points with the same.
Many cogent points have been made and remain unanswered.
.
Fred Says:
when can we expect the era of prosperity to kick in that bush and the gop promised as a result of tax cuts and deregulation.
Actually, I’d still like to finish the on-topic debate before we dig into the sidebar that donttread offered.
donttread, you came in here opposing the study posted at top. Citing different studies hasn’t worked, as they are either chronologically irrelevant or subject to bias themselves. The methodology of the post at top is simple, relevant to current news practices, and not subject to bias on the part of the people conducting it. Therefore, if you disagree with its results, you would have to argue that they are irrelevant to its claim. You’d have to argue that even though cable news puts on twice as many R’s as D’s, it’s not biased towards R’s, and probably give an alternative explanation for why they’re doing that.
Or at least something more substantial than your “squeaky wheels” comment. Republicans aren’t making news right now, so there’s no reason for them to be so overrepresented.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:49 pmLess than two weeks after Uncle Sam gave American International Group (AIG) an $85 billion loan – staving off financial collapse – execs from one of its insurance subsidiaries, AIG American General, gathered for a conference at the uber-swank St. Regis Monarch Beach Resort, billed as “California’s only Mobil Travel Guide Five-Star Resort,” where ocean-view rooms start at $565 a night and “world class luxury” is the rule.
How many jobs did we get for this, Tread?
February 6th, 2009 at 3:49 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 dissapearing from the blog with tail tucked in firmly between his legs in 3 2 1……
February 6th, 2009 at 3:49 pmThat’s a good sign. Right-wing Republicans are so addled by propaganda, they can effortlessly absorb that concept without pain. Of course, such nonsense does cause further damage to their already compromised reasoning centers.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:50 pmThe US Government overpaid $78 billion last year for stakes in troubled banks as part of its $700 billion bailout, the Congressional panel overseeing the rescue said.
Tread? What were the jobs generated by all that moolah? Tread?
February 6th, 2009 at 3:51 pmFred Says:
DontTreadOnMe2009 dissapearing from the blog with tail tucked in firmly between his legs in 3 2 1……
No no NO! I asked a cogent question, and he said he’d respond in same.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:53 pmHe wouldn’t lie to me,now would he?
That depends. If you own Blackwater, KBR, or Raytheon, you are getting LOTS of jobs for that cash.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:54 pmWhy yes we are. Thank you for noticing.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:54 pmtread?
February 6th, 2009 at 3:57 pmI’m sure the Neanderthals said the same thing when they first met the Cro-Magnons.
February 6th, 2009 at 3:58 pmWell blimey ‘ell!
I count a last 5 cogent points being made towards DTOM2009, and yet no response?
Wut up wid dat, DT-bag?
February 6th, 2009 at 3:59 pmUnemployment at the end of:
2001 – 5.7%
2006 – 4.5%
Dow Jones Avg at the end of:
2001 – 10,021
2006 – 12,463
GDP growth rate:
2000 4.1
2001 5.0
2002 0.3
2003 2.5
2004 3.1
2005 4.4
2006 3.2
What is so bad about these numbers?
February 6th, 2009 at 4:00 pmhanshiro.
I was against the TARP bailout and I am against this “stimulus package”
February 6th, 2009 at 4:01 pm“What is so bad about these numbers?”
ooohhh, ooohhhhh, lemmie answer that. because 43 was borrowing from peter to pay paul and now they’ve turned our names over to a collection agency.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:02 pmThe bad thing about those numbers is that they represented a bubble, which burst due to bad trade policy, bad tax policy, bad foreign policy, bad fiscal policy, ect.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:02 pmCompanies that have received help through the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) spent more than $114 million on lobbying and campaign contributions in 2008, according to a new report by the Center for Responsive Politics.
Jobs? Anyone? How many jobs did we get for that bargain, Tread?
February 6th, 2009 at 4:03 pmSorry for the delay,
I don’t have numbers at my fingertips…
By the way, why don’t some of you put forth some unbiased facts about how bad the economy was from 2001-2006?
My argument is that the Dems took control of Congress in ‘06, right? So they are on the hook for all govt spending since then… and that is when the bubble popped…
On the Dems watch…
That is a fact.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:05 pmBozo,
How much does government spending (which is a Congressional Function, not the President’s) affect unemployment or GDP?
February 6th, 2009 at 4:06 pm233.DontTreadOnMe2009 Says: What is so bad about these numbers?
A $490 BILLION deficit and rising. We borrowed to prop up misleading numbers. bush was America’s Madoff.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:08 pmThose numbers are fine for modest growth, if it’s built on sound fundamentals.
It’s not “prosperity”, especially since it was built on government debt and consumer debt, and not on production.
Witness the DJI you cite, those gains vanished in 2007-08, and Bush left office with the DJI lower than when he took office eight years earlier.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:08 pmPoint 1)
February 6th, 2009 at 4:09 pmThe Dems took over control in 2007, not 2006.
Point 2)
The Dems never had a strong hold in Congress to actually pass any significant legislation.
Point 3)
The Reps had a record # of filibusters to assure nothing would get passed.
hanshiro,
where did all that lobbying money go? Just to Republicans? Nope – to BOTH.
Like I said, the system is corrupt on both sides and we are the ones who are paying for it…
Aren’t you tired of politics as usual?
I had hoped Obama would change that game, but he is as much a part of it as the rest of ‘em.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:09 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says: “My argument is that the Dems took control of Congress in ‘06, right? So they are on the hook for all govt spending since then”
wrong. sit down sonny, time for school. a) democrats didn’t have a veto proof majority b) 43 used the power of veto like a magic wand. this crap squarely lies on his and his cronies in congress’ hands.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:10 pmhanshiro,
and what is the current stimulus package going to do?
borrow even more money to fund pet projects that we will have to pay back either through taxes or devaluing our currency by printing more – Argentina-style.
get ready for 100% annual inflation.
Throw all the bums out – Dems and Repubs.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:10 pmOh, I see where you’re coming from. So if you fill a balloon with water, tie off the end and then hand it to your buddy, when it bursts, it HIS fault that he got wet.
Wow. I never thought of that strategy. Actually shirking responsibility for a mess you created. That’s brilliant. I can see why you guys did so well in elections for fourteen years.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:12 pm238.DontTreadOnMe2009 Says: My argument is that the Dems took control of Congress in ‘06, right? So they are on the hook for all govt spending since then
Not unless you can stop a war on a dime. We are still hemorrhaging money because of disastrous bush policies.
Your premise/pretense is spectacularly wrong
February 6th, 2009 at 4:12 pmSo, what did he Democrats do, in your view that actively caused this bubble to burst>
Must have been something they did, right? can you point to a specific vote or bill?
February 6th, 2009 at 4:14 pmYou are a bunch of apologists for the Dems – can’t you see BOTH parties are corrupt?
Now that the Dems do have control, LOOK at what they are trying to do – outspend anyone that has ever submitted or passed a budget.
You OK with that?
February 6th, 2009 at 4:14 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
Sorry for the delay,
I don’t have numbers at my fingertips…
Those numbers don’t answer the question of “how was that time period prosperous?”
February 6th, 2009 at 4:16 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
“You are a bunch of apologists for the Dems – can’t you see BOTH parties are corrupt?”
oohhh look, now that he got his ass handed to him, tread’s a concern troll. where were you when tom delady was selling votes?
February 6th, 2009 at 4:17 pmLlama,
…then tell us all, please, how the Republicans wrecked the economy.
Remember – back it up with facts, not just your “feelings”
Cite specific legislation and numbers, just as you ask me to.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:17 pmDontFreadOnMe2009 Says:
You are a bunch of apologists for the Dems – can’t you see BOTH parties are corrupt?
no no no no no no no. You’re changing the subject. It’s not about which side is corrupt, it’s about your burden of proof that this recession was caused by a limited Dem controlled Congress starting in 2007.
Not very cogent of you, Fread
February 6th, 2009 at 4:18 pmtread, why not address the fact that the entire iraq debacle wasn’t part of any budget. it was emergency funding. what are we in the hole for that so far?
February 6th, 2009 at 4:19 pmHmm… the old fall-back “BOTH parties are at fault!”. Even though one party had complete control for six full years and enacted just about every measure they wanted, up to Social Security reform, where public opposition stopped them dead. Irresponsible tax cuts, wasteful spending in Iraq, obscene deficit spending while claiming “prosperity”…
apparently, Democrats didn’t do enough to reverse the damaging effects of these policies wit a razor-thin majority and a suddenly veto-happy oppositional president, so they own it. Is that how it goes, Tread?
February 6th, 2009 at 4:20 pm245.DontTreadOnMe2009 Says: and what is the current stimulus package going to do?
For starters? Not be directed by a village idiot and a morass of butt-kissing republican yes-men.
Having an intelligent hand at the helm will make a difference, I suspect. Certainly not doing anything, or worse, taking republican suggestions will only result in a worsening downward spiral.
The republicans and Hank-”three page”-Paulson are an absolute disgrace and should get out of the way. For all the money that bush secured before his ignominious exit, he didn’t do sh¡t. Now, since the inbred conservatives have proven they can’t figure it out, they proclaim no one else must know either…
Hallmark of the arrogant coward.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:20 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
What is so bad about these numbers?
Here’s what that GDP looks like. Not so pretty. If Bush hadn’t temporarily and barely brought it back in line in 2004, there’s no way he would have gotten a second term.
Here’s what the Dow looks like. Note that any gains after 2003 were pure bubble and are gone now.
And, that unemployment rate. Did seem to be moving in the right direction, but it wasn’t sustainable. Also note the huge bump in 2002 there.
.
DontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
and what is the current stimulus package going to do?
borrow even more money to fund pet projects that we will have to pay back either through taxes or devaluing our currency by printing more – Argentina-style.
Inflation is a concern. I know I’m worried about it. You guys shouldn’t have made it necessary by running up the deficit and trashing the economy.
Look, the Dems didn’t just make up this stimulus package because they like spending. They had to because the Republicans trashed the economy. They aren’t ignoring the fact that the deficit is already high, but that’s a pill we’re going to have to swallow because the Republicans trashed the economy.
.
DontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
You are a bunch of apologists for the Dems – can’t you see BOTH parties are corrupt?
The last refuge of a beaten wingnut. You wanted to blame the Dems, and when we demonstrate how the Republicans were and are at fault, you’re all like “let’s compromise and say both parties did it.” Problem is, it just ain’t so.
.
DontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
Now that the Dems do have control, LOOK at what they are trying to do – outspend anyone that has ever submitted or passed a budget.
Not more than Bush. See, we count wars as spending.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:22 pmHere, Fread, let me help you:
8 years Clinton: Surplus. Unemployment low. Crime low. Stocks well maintained and prosperous for middle class.
8 years Bush : Record deficit. Unemployment extremely high. Crime high. Recession for all but the ultra rich.
Oh wait, I know. It’s 9/11’s fault. Had our dear leader actually paid attention to the warnings and prevented the dreaded attacks, we’d all be rich, rich, RICH!
February 6th, 2009 at 4:23 pmPlease bear the following in mind and note the dates when making the false claim that democrats controlled anything from 2006-2008:
[edit] George W. Bush
1. July 19, 2006: Vetoed H.R. 810, Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2005, a bill to ease restrictions on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research. Override attempt failed in House, 235-193 (286 needed).
2. May 1, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 1591, U.S. Troop Readiness, Veterans’ Care, Katrina Recovery, and Iraq Accountability Appropriations Act, 2007. Override attempt failed in House, 222-203 (284 needed). A later version of the bill that excluded certain aspects of the initial legislation that the President disapproved of… H.R. 2206, was enacted as Pub.L. 110-28 with the President’s approval.
3. June 20, 2007: Vetoed S. 5, Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2007.
4. October 3, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 976, Children’s Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007 (”SCHIP”). Override attempt failed in House, 273-156 (286 votes needed).
5. November 2, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 1495, Water Resources Development Act of 2007. Overridden by House, 361-54 (277 votes needed). Overridden by Senate, 79-14 (62 needed), and enacted as Pub.L. 110-114 over President’s veto.
6. November 13, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 3043, Departments of Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act of 2008. Override attempt failed in House, 277-141 (279 votes needed).
7. December 12, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 3963, Children’s Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007.[20] Override attempt failed in House, 260-152 (275 votes needed).
8. December 28, 2007: Pocket Vetoed H.R. 1585, National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008[21]. A later version of the bill that changed a minor provision of which the President disapproved was quickly passed by Congress (H.R. 4986) and was enacted with the President’s approval as Pub.L. 110-181 on 28 January 2008.
9. March 8, 2008: Vetoed H.R. 2082, Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008.[22][23] Override attempt failed in House, 225-188.
10. May 21, 2008: Vetoed H.R. 2419, 2007 U.S. Farm Bill.[24][25] Overridden by House, 316-108 (283 votes needed). Overridden by Senate, 82-13 (64 votes needed). Enacted as Pub.L. 110-234 over the President’s veto. Due to a clerical error, this act was repealed by Pub.L. 110-246.
11. 18 June 2008: Vetoed H.R. 6421, 2007 U.S. Farm Bill, re-passed by Congress to correct a clerical error in HR 2419.[26] Overridden by House, 317-109 (284 votes required). Overridden by Senate, 80-14 (63 votes needed). Enacted as Pub.L. 110-246 over the President’s veto.
12. July 15, 2008: Vetoed H.R. 6331, Medicare Improvements for Patients and Providers Act.[27] Overridden by House, 383-41 (283 votes required.) Overridden by Senate, 70-26 (64 votes required). Enacted as Pub.L. 110-275 over the President’s veto.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:24 pmThat is a list of all of bush’s veto’s by the way
February 6th, 2009 at 4:26 pmGo get ‘im, Ralphie!!
February 6th, 2009 at 4:26 pmStill have not seen anyone prove that the Repubs wrecked the economy and that the Dems are innocent bystanders.
They BOTH did it – they are both responsible.
I am not defending either party…
You are defending the Dems…
February 6th, 2009 at 4:26 pmDidn’t I read up above that you were willing to answer cogent points with the same.
And further:
And I will answer juvenile name-calling and such with epithets and ad hominem attacks of my own.
I didn’t name-call nor did I launch an ad hominem attack. I simply asked you to cite something specific that the Democratic majority did to cause the bubble that Republicans generated to burst.
Since you expressed an eagerness to engage in real debate, I thought your claim that Democrats were responsible for the economic downturn, simply because they were in control of Congress, should be justifiable if valid.
Yet your response is to challenge me to back up claims of my own, rather than to offer support for your argument.
is this what you consider “real debate”?
February 6th, 2009 at 4:26 pmYeah, Fred – you’re right…
If we had stem-cell research and some goodies for HHS the economy would be just fine…
February 6th, 2009 at 4:28 pmYou too, Fred and ElBruce!!!!
*applause*
February 6th, 2009 at 4:28 pmAnd on the issue of the thread. I know you will think this is a biased perspective but they use a documented and scientific method to arrive at their conclusions.
Our analysis in the spring of 2007 of the 257 news/talk stations owned by the top five commercial station owners reveals that 91 percent of the total weekday talk radio programming is conservative, and 9 percent is progressive.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:29 pmYou haven’t been paying attention, or you’ve been willfully ignoring evidence presented.
And, for that matter, we haven’t seen YOU prove how Democrats are responsible for this mess.
But I’m beginning to think that all the evidence in the world won’t “prove” anything to you that you don’t want to believe.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:29 pm262.DontTreadOnMe2009 Says: Still have not seen anyone prove that the Repubs wrecked the economy and that the Dems are innocent bystanders.
Republicans controlled the congress the last 12 years and the presidency the last 8, even attempting to shut out dem input completely via the K-Street project.
So who else had complete control over the course of the economy all that time? Harry Potter?
February 6th, 2009 at 4:30 pmtread, perhaps you’d like to clearly explain to us after many provided irrefutable facts to prove otherwise how the slim democratic majority in congress caused this.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:30 pmIs that really what you consider a “cogent point”?
To belittle a single piece of a post demonstrating that Democrats in fact had very little ability to do anything substantial during the 2007-08 Congress?
It’s really starting to look like your claims of being open to “real debate” were disingenuous.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:32 pmAs Ralph so eloquently points out. You don’t seem to be here to debate…..
February 6th, 2009 at 4:32 pmDrXJ…
Where are your numbers?
Here in California we were in a recession from 1990-1998.
Was not good times here back then…
Housing prices declined 35% and unemployment went up…
Clinton cut military spending in half – relative to GDP and we were open to attack, which is what happened on 9/11.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:33 pmWeak assed sarcasm recognized and acknowledged. It doesn’t however get you out from under the unbrella of claiming that the dems were in control in that time frame.
These facts that I have presented, to a reasonable person would discredit your claim. How now brown cow?
February 6th, 2009 at 4:35 pmDRxJ Says:
Oh wait, I know. It’s 9/11’s fault. Had our dear leader actually paid attention to the warnings and prevented the dreaded attacks, we’d all be rich, rich, RICH!
Actually, all our Dear Leader had to do was not be a total alarmist and give people some confidence that rational steps were being taken. Instead he flipped out, invaded the wrong country, kept everybody freaked out with threat levels, violated the law and such. We would have done much better with a President who focused on Afghanistan, worked with Pakistan, secured the ports, increased real intelligence capabilities and implemented useful security technologies.
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Fred Says:
Please bear the following in mind and note the dates when making the false claim that democrats controlled anything from 2006-2008…
Well, it’s the Democrats’ fault they didn’t make the Republicans not be evil!
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DontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
Still have not seen anyone prove that the Repubs wrecked the economy and that the Dems are innocent bystanders.
Really? I have. Page up.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:36 pm272. DontTreadOnMe2009 Says: Here in California we were in a recession from 1990-1998.
Mission creep. You’re unresponsive to the evidence. Answer the question, Tread:
Republicans controlled the congress the last 12 years and the presidency the last 8, even attempting to shut out dem input completely via the K-Street project.
So who else had complete control over the course of the economy all that time?
February 6th, 2009 at 4:36 pmClinton cut military spending in half – relative to GDP and we were open to attack, which is what happened on 9/11.
Cause everyone knows the boxcutters they used would have shown up on the radar…
February 6th, 2009 at 4:37 pmFread says:
Clinton cut military spending in half – relative to GDP and we were open to attack, which is what happened on 9/11.
And there it is, my friends. Perfectly baited.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:37 pmClinton’s fault.
Thus, I conclude, DTOM09 is not a bipartisan hater as he so claims.
DontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
My argument is that the Dems took control of Congress in ‘06, right?
Wrong. The Dims managed to equalize representation, providing the Independent voted with them to give them a 51-49 position. Since they are now at 58-42 or some such level and still can’t get past Repug obstructionism, you best define ‘Control’.
Seems to me there was this guy with a veto pen who actually dictated things.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:38 pmAh, poor fools…
The government does not control the economy – it only impacts it via fiscal and tax policy.
And the only impact it has had since the 1960’s has been negative.
This Stimulus will fail – mark my words, just as the TARP bailout failed, and the War on Poverty.
The Government is inept.
Ralph and Fred – I will take back my blame for the Dems as the sole cause of this bad economy. I was merely making a hyperbolic comment to point out that the media seems to blame whomever is in charge for a bad economy (and give them credit if it is good), regardless of the fact that the goverment does not have that big of an impact on the cyclical nature of a global economy.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:39 pm272. DontTreadOnMe2009 Says: Clinton cut military spending in half – relative to GDP and we were open to attack, which is what happened on 9/11.
This is demonstrably false and not a fact. bush went on a month-long vacation after the PDB which allowed us to be attacked. It was bush’s watch that we were hit, not Clinton’s.
Desperation is making you sweat, Tread…
February 6th, 2009 at 4:39 pmClinton cut military spending in half – relative to GDP and we were open to attack, which is what happened on 9/11.
the fact that Bush ignored warnings that the Clinton administration gave him had nothing to do with it…cough cough
February 6th, 2009 at 4:40 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
My argument is that the Dems took control of Congress in ‘06, right?
And if Bush didn’t nullify the most importants stuff with signing statements, which was unheard of before his rule. There were signing statements, to be sure, but never had a previous president used them in such a way.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:40 pm“Clinton cut military spending in half – relative to GDP and we were open to attack, which is what happened on 9/11.”
treadie, now tap dance real hard and explain to us how a strong military and military action curbs terrorism. make sure you cite iraq so we can all have a good laugh at your expense.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:40 pmYOU-HAVE-NOTHING
Clinton cut military spending in half – relative to GDP and we were open to attack, which is what happened on 9/11.
One, the military has little to no control or input on interior defense.
Two, Clinton, through the very competent Mr. Clark, gave the Bushies loads of information on terrorist activities in the 9 months prior to 9/11. Said administration blatantly ignored and even denigrated the info.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:40 pmClinton cut military spending in half – relative to GDP and we were open to attack, which is what happened on 9/11.
Yeah, we’re the fools…
February 6th, 2009 at 4:41 pmHe doesn’t read our posts except to find tid bits to take out of context so he doens’t have to answer hard questions or acknowledge his limited knowledge on the issues.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:41 pmI think Clinton and the Dems gutting the defense budget invited those around the world who hate us and our liberty and our way of life to think they could take a shot at us – and they did.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:42 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
DrXJ…
Where are your numbers?
Here in California we were in a recession from 1990-1998.
Was not good times here back then…
Housing prices declined 35% and unemployment went up…
Clinton cut military spending in half – relative to GDP and we were open to attack, which is what happened on 9/11.
So your argument is that the 90s weren’t a period of economic prosperity?
Because of the local economy in California?
First of all, in 1990 George HW Bush was president and Reagan-era policies led to a nationwide recession. California was led by Geroge Deukmejian (R) and later by Pete Wilson (also R). Bill Clinton took office in 1993 with the stock market in the 3000s. When he handed the keys to George W. Bush, the Dow had risen more than 200%. Unemployment was at historic lows during the Clinton presidency, to the point that employers were pushing for more open immigration to fill open positions.
The cuts in military spending of which you speak were begun under Bush 41 and Defense Secretary Dick Cheney. And besides, what does that have to do with the economy anyway? Seems like a bit of a side issue o me.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:42 pm279. DontTreadOnMe2009 Says: Ah, poor fools…
This must be some of that “cogent” point-making debate…
The government does not control the economy – it only impacts it via fiscal and tax policy.
So the republicans set the policy for the last 12 years. Who else could be at fault, Tread? Tread?
February 6th, 2009 at 4:42 pmWhy is it the toadies claim the repugs have the right idea when for the last 50 years the economy has been headed for the toilet at the end of every repug period of control?
February 6th, 2009 at 4:42 pmAs Bozo has pointed out but should be re-iterated, we have descriptive names for when a troll does what your are doing here now. It’s also called “moving the goalposts”
It basically means you know you have lost.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:44 pmWhich post, Fred? I must’ve missed it…
You mean the veto list?
February 6th, 2009 at 4:44 pmNo jackass, but my sick wife might be. F uck you.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:46 pmHey Retread, have you even looked at the ‘gutting’ the Clinton administration did of Defense? Bush was handed a very strong and viable defense. Too bad he pissed it away.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:46 pmWell, Ralph,
I am seeing that part of the “blame” for the bad economy is the increased military spending.
Truth is it is lower as a pct of GDP than it was under Reagan.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:47 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
If we had stem-cell research and some goodies for HHS the economy would be just fine…
No one thing is going to fix the economy, but things like that would help quite a bit. There is huge waste in health care in terms of how much actual care people are getting for how much they’re paying, compared to any other developed nation on Earth.
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ralph the wonder llama Says:
And, for that matter, we haven’t seen YOU prove how Democrats are responsible for this mess.
That’s the crux of the matter. donttread made that claim, we demonstrated how the Republicans were directly responsible, so now he’s shifted to “well, the Dems were also responsible!” without any causal mechanism presented whatsoever for how that responsibility gets placed.
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ralph the wonder llama Says:
But I’m beginning to think that all the evidence in the world won’t “prove” anything to you that you don’t want to believe.
He seems to have signaled that he’s going to start bar-shifting next.
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DontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
Clinton cut military spending in half – relative to GDP and we were open to attack, which is what happened on 9/11.
The military wouldn’t have been in a position to prevent 9/11, and you know that.
I’ll get back to you on those claims regarding California.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:48 pmSo Fred, you give on one minor point and your whole philosophy on the role of government is thereby repudiated?
Sounds a little one-dimensional to me.
It just doesn’t work that way.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:49 pmAll Tread does is try to get others to react. That’s the game. As I said above, he will not admit or acknowledge responsibility in creating a mess, merely cough-up talking-point haitballs to get a reaction…put others on the defensive.
The more distorted, the bigger the reaction. He will not react except to try to get a reaction in turn and put others back on the defensive.
It’s an amateur’s gambit and the only debate skills a substance-less republican gum-flapper possesses. Like Hannity or O’Reilly.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:50 pmralph the wonder llama says:
The cuts in military spending of which you speak were begun under Bush 41 and Defense Secretary Dick Cheney. And besides, what does that have to do with the economy anyway? Seems like a bit of a side issue to me.
Sorry. That was my fault. I was just dangling the carrot to see if he’d bite.
He did.
My bad.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:50 pmIn all of my many years of arguing with Republicans, this is the most pathetic attempt at defense I have ever seen. If that was all I had left for an argument, I would at least have enough self-respect to STFU.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:51 pmI see we are back to ad hominem attacks…
Is that where we are going now?
February 6th, 2009 at 4:52 pmWell, at elast you’ve abandoned the name-calling…
And the impact of the fiscal and tax policies favored by Republicans have been unrelentingly disastrous for the middle class and the nation as a whole.
Is this really your argument? Aren’t you going to back it up with “facts” not “feelings”? And shouldn’t you go back to the New Deal to claim it “made the Depression worse”?
You might try “The Ownership Society”. But it sounds like you’re hoping it will fail. seems downright unAmerican to me.
Under Republican rule, no argument. Why would anyone trust the reins of government to a party whose primary platform is “government is not the answer”?
Wise move, to my mind.
Then perhaps you should have made that argument, rather than the entirely unrelated and partisan one you actually put forth. We disagree on the importance of government policies regarding the direction of the economy. I understand your impulse to minimize the impact of government on the economy. If the folks I supported had as miserable a record as yours do, I’d try to claim that it was “no big deal” too.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:53 pmToo bad you don’t understand the term “ad hominem”.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:54 pmThat has been entirely up to you from the very beginning. Typical republican, can’t take responsibility for their actions.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:54 pmDontDreadOnMe2009 Says:
I see we are back to ad hominem attacks…
Huh?
February 6th, 2009 at 4:55 pmYou all are too much…
A-M-F
February 6th, 2009 at 4:56 pmHe doesn’t know what it means.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:57 pmDontBreadOnMe2009 Says:
You all are too much…
A-M-F
Huh?
February 6th, 2009 at 4:57 pm301. DontTreadOnMe2009 Says: I see we are back to ad hominem attacks…
Unresponsive. You switch subjects when cornered, make unsubstantiated accusations, and demonstrably false charges. You’re a republican alright…
Republican controlled the economy for the last 12 years; here we are with a full-blown recession/depression and record deficit.
Republicans trashed the economy. Q.E.D.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:57 pmAmalgamated Mother F()ckers?
February 6th, 2009 at 4:58 pmYes, it is obvious you are overmatched. Why do you insist on embarrassing yourself? Go back to Redstate and talk about the wonderful legacy of your Bushgod.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:58 pmYou wish, it would be easy then. I thought it was “revealing” that you couldn’t admit that you were wrong after being adamnant and instead chose to “revise” your claim……
February 6th, 2009 at 4:58 pmNo, you misunderstand. It’s not “military spending” that is one of the primary causes — it is the WASTE of the Iraq invasion, which is NOT on the books, by the way. It’s all “supplemental spending” which doesn’t get counted in the budget figures.
So your attempt to move the goalposts was not only a tangent, it also seems quite confused internally as well.
(I wish you guys could make up your minds, by the way, whether cutting military spending was “fiscally responsible” or “weak on defense”. Seems to change whenever it suits your whims.)
February 6th, 2009 at 4:59 pmHanshiro, the repugs have controlled the economy since about 1950.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:59 pmAnd just how many military bases do we have in how many countries around the world?
And who else even comes close?
February 6th, 2009 at 5:01 pmI thought it stood for Am Mighty Foolish.
February 6th, 2009 at 5:01 pmEither they’re teaching a course in Troll College where they throw up “ad hominem” as an attack without teaching them what it actually means, or this is the same troll who has been inappropriately claiming for weeks that he’s the victim of “ad hominem” attacks.
February 6th, 2009 at 5:01 pmShoeless, I couldn’t help but remember when AMF bought out Harley Davidson lo these many years ago. Look what it did to the hawg.
February 6th, 2009 at 5:02 pm312. Hoodathunk Says: Hanshiro, the repugs have controlled the economy since about 1950.
When dealing with known liars like tread, give them as small a hole to wriggle through as possible. 12 solid years is harder to dispute/smokescreen than half a century…
February 6th, 2009 at 5:02 pmHanshiro, then at least go back to 1980.
February 6th, 2009 at 5:03 pmOI hear they are closing the Harley plant in southern Wisconsin. That is a sure sign of The End.
February 6th, 2009 at 5:04 pmA dirty ugly rumor. (That it might be true is sad). Harley will survive.
February 6th, 2009 at 5:06 pmRalph, trolls don’t need a college course (which they would never consider or even be qualified for) to learn how to throw up.
February 6th, 2009 at 5:07 pm320.Hoodathunk Says: Hanshiro, then at least go back to 1980.
I’m too rusty on econ facts back that far. I yield to your stats.
;-)
February 6th, 2009 at 5:08 pmNo stats needed, Hanshiro, its when Rayguns became the first ventriloquist dummy to assume the office of President.
February 6th, 2009 at 5:09 pmThat was the problem? Bush had been in office for 8 months. Obama is signing legislation and orders every day. Republicans were in complete control and they had warnings that bin Laden planned on attacking. Why did they do nothing for 8 months?
February 6th, 2009 at 5:11 pmI’ve just perused approximately 290 comments on this thread. Had I passed over this chap DontTreadOnMe2009, and the responses to him, there would likely be something on the order of a manageable 50 to 100 comments here.
In future, assuming I return to TP, I shall implement that strategy.
To those of you who feed the troll, I direct a simple question: WHY? From my point of view, it’s rather akin to trying to pet a rabid dog. Not a very rewarding endeavor. Something to think about – or not, depending on your disposition. In any event, no need to respond as it would the continue the feeding.
February 6th, 2009 at 5:13 pmShayne, that is the right question.
February 6th, 2009 at 5:14 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
Here in California we were in a recession from 1990-1998.
Was not good times here back then…
Looks to me like that recession you’re talking about was over a very limited period, 1990-1993. But if you’re trying to make a political point, Clinton was in office from 1993-2001. Just about had California whipped back into shape before Bush took over.
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DontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
Ah, poor fools…
The government does not control the economy – it only impacts it via fiscal and tax policy.
The government has the tools of fiscal policy, tax policy, monetary policy, and government spending with which to control the economy. Such control is not absolute (or we’d never have recessions) but it is effective when used intelligently in the public interest.
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DontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
And the only impact it has had since the 1960’s has been negative.
Don’t make me pull another chart out of my ass.
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DontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
This Stimulus will fail – mark my words, just as the TARP bailout failed, and the War on Poverty.
And Social Security? And MediCare/Medicaid? How about the VA hospital system overall? The Postal Service? Public education? All of these things do just fine. Some could do better, but that’s largely because they’re underfunded (due to Republicans).
What we’ve learned is that handing cash to the people who caused the problem (TARP bailout) doesn’t work, and that declaring “War on” things (such as poverty) doesn’t work either. But that doesn’t mean that we can’t have a positive impact.
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DontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
The Government is inept.
Only to the degree that Republicans participate in it.
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DontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
…regardless of the fact that the goverment does not have that big of an impact on the cyclical nature of a global economy.
Interesting thing about that “cyclical nature” – whenever Republicans are in charge of government, the “cycle” goes down. Whenever Democrats are in charge, it goes up. It’s a pretty consistent historical pattern…
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DontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
I think Clinton and the Dems gutting the defense budget invited those around the world who hate us and our liberty and our way of life to think they could take a shot at us – and they did.
They had already been taking shots at us; I guess you hadn’t noticed. They aren’t scared of our planes and tanks and bombs. If they were, we’d still have more than enough to shake at them like a magic stick while yelling “booga booga!” The fact that this tactic doesn’t seem to be working isn’t because the stick isn’t big enough. It’s because it’s a stupid thing to do.
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hanshiro Says:
All Tread does is try to get others to react. That’s the game. As I said above, he will not admit or acknowledge responsibility in creating a mess, merely cough-up talking-point haitballs to get a reaction…put others on the defensive.
Yeah, but it gives us the opportunity to make cogent points and back them up. Trolls serve their purposes.
.
I notice tread is rotating his arguments. Liberal media? (beaten) But what about the Dems trashing the economy? (beaten) Oh look over here, California in the 90’s! (beaten) But – ooh shiny! – we were attacked because Clinton cut military spending! And so on, and so on.
February 6th, 2009 at 5:16 pmWhen I said “Troll College” I was thinking more along the lines of a “Clown College”.
But point taken.
February 6th, 2009 at 5:18 pmOr Hamburger U McDonald’s runs in Oakbrook, IL. Oh no wait, I think you have to be a “manager” to go to Hamburger U.
February 6th, 2009 at 5:22 pm45ACP Says:
To those of you who feed the troll, I direct a simple question: WHY? From my point of view, it’s rather akin to trying to pet a rabid dog. Not a very rewarding endeavor. Something to think about – or not, depending on your disposition. In any event, no need to respond as it would the continue the feeding.
Whacking trolls makes for a good upper-body workout.
Seriously, I can never think of as many cogent arguments and reasoning for backing them up when it’s all a mutual back-patting club. Then we just deliver snarky one-liners on the post and move on. Trolls deliver plenty of hot, fresh, steaming piles of right-wing talking points to work over and beat into the dirt. Which makes for higher quality discourse overall (at least on our side).
February 6th, 2009 at 5:23 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
When I said “Troll College” I was thinking more along the lines of a “Clown College”.
Ohh, you mean the Heritage Foundation! Why didn’t you just say so?
February 6th, 2009 at 5:25 pmDontTreadOnMe2009 Says:
My argument is that the Dems took control of Congress in ‘06, right? So they are on the hook for all govt spending since then… and that is when the bubble popped…
On the Dems watch…
That is a fact.
February 6th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
___________
Correlation isn’t causation, idiot.
The bubble popped because of the years of deregulation that preceded it. The fact that it burst in 2008 rather than 2006 is just luck.
February 6th, 2009 at 5:29 pmNot really a good analogy. If you pet a rabid dog, you could get bit and catch rabies.
Never heard of any TPer getting “trollies”.
February 6th, 2009 at 5:30 pm(I just think it’s so cool that we can now type a word like “analogy”…)
February 6th, 2009 at 5:31 pmRalphie @ 335 – HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Best laff I’ve had all day! Thank you!
Your fan,
Backside Annie ;o)
February 6th, 2009 at 6:11 pmThe media damn well better show the voice of opposition to this kind of spending. In 2 weeks, Pelosi/Reid plan on spending almost twice as much money the the entirety of the War in Iraq. With a plurality of American citizens believing that the spending bill will do nothing for them. By modest accounts 500,000,000,000 will be sent to companies that employ either public or private unions, which is only 20 percent of the workforce. I thought they made Payola illegal in the 50’s.
There are clauses in this bill that state that Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Jews will no longer be able to pray in college campuses that take federal money. This bill was never intended to stimulate the economy and it never will. Bipartisan Bill my ass, there isn’t one conservative or even a libertarian economist that supports this nonsense.
BTW. What the hell was Obama thinking when he limited CEO’s pay cap. I understand the populism anger towards people making money, but these banks are returning 300 million a month dividends, and will probably be the only success story of this bail out B.S.
February 6th, 2009 at 6:21 pmWow, jeffrey. that’s a whole heap a’ claimin’ you done right there.
care to back any of it up?
Then why did they need to be bailed out if they’re such “success stories”?
How valuable can these CEOs really be if they’ve led their companies into a train wreck that required the federal government to bail them out in order to avoid financial Armageddon?
Not really following your reasoning here.
You may not have noticed, but it’s been the conservative and libertarian economists that have been guiding the policies that got us here. They’re kind of discredited these days.
February 6th, 2009 at 6:26 pm” I still say NPR has become worse than Fox “News” with its bias. I almost ran off the road last night hearing Mara Liason (gee, she works on Fox too!) misrepresenting Obama’s op ed piece by paraphrasing between the quotes.”
NPR is horrible. It’s both vapid and conservative. I strongly suggest letting your local station know how you feel about this. I stopped giving money and told them I’d start again only if they stopped running NPR national news stories (which are a station’s major costs, as people like Steve Inskeep make > $300k per year).
The blog NPR Check is pretty good at noting the conservative drift of NPR.
February 6th, 2009 at 6:29 pmI don’t think I realized how stupid the discussions at NPR were until the rise of the blogosphere and the availability of political information. Now I see.
To the comment about the Deregulation that caused this bubble to pop, it was actually the lack of enforcement of the regulation that caused this. The Dem Congress was alerted to this 2 years ago, and they decided to play politics.
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/09/17/mccains-attempt-to-fix-fannie-mae-freddie-mac-in-2005/
The next time you vote for Hope you should probably know the issues.
February 6th, 2009 at 6:29 pmOh, good. Jeffrey is referencing a post at Hotair to support his theory that Democrats caused the economic collapse.
I thought for an moment that he might have some reasonably serious points to make, might want to provide some credible back-up for his outrageous claims but it looks like not.
February 6th, 2009 at 6:33 pmWow, jeffrey. that’s a whole heap a’ claimin’ you done right there.
care to back any of it up?
What the hell was Obama thinking when he limited CEO’s pay cap. I understand the populism anger towards people making money, but these banks are returning 300 million a month dividends, and will probably be the only success story of this bail out B.S.
Then why did they need to be bailed out if they’re such “success stories”?
How valuable can these CEOs really be if they’ve led their companies into a train wreck that required the federal government to bail them out in order to avoid financial Armageddon?
Not really following your reasoning here.
-Here is the reasoning. These CEO’s have millions of dollars. It doesn’t do anything by limiting their pay to 500,000 dollars except tell the American public that President Obama thinks that they are doing such a good job that they should be working on the Federal payroll and still be paid more than him. Instead of using Draconian logic with this one, he could have just given them stock options that couldn’t be taken until the banks had paid back the money. With the stipulation that they couldn’t lay off people to get to that point.
February 6th, 2009 at 6:36 pmOh, I understand now. You’re not capable of making sense. I was beginning to suspect that, but now that I know, I’ll try to be mindful of your handicap.
February 6th, 2009 at 6:41 pmI can’ blame the Democrats for everything. It seems as though Bush was telling Republican senators about this starting in 2001.
http://www.idahofallstoday.com/2008/09/25/white-house-press-release-dont-blame-bush-for-bailouts/
So by that logic I would put Republicans at 6/8 fault and Democrats for 2/8 fault. Every time history repudiates itself about Bush I want to slit my wrists a little more.
February 6th, 2009 at 6:43 pmdo you democrats on here really believe that this spending bill will help the economy? give me a break. Obama said on the campain trail hundreds of time that pres bush spent over 1 trillion dollars over eight years yet Obama wants 1 trillion in his first 2 weeks. this country needs help but not a pork filled spending bill. and if any of you dont like this country get the hell out. we dont want you here. Obama is not the messiah the media makes him out to be he is just a man and one that is trying to destroy this country as we know it. He wont get a second term. Sarah Palin will be president in four years
February 6th, 2009 at 6:43 pmOh, I understand now. You’re not capable of making sense. I was beginning to suspect that, but now that I know, I’ll try to be mindful of your handicap.
See you take you eye of the ball for 2 minutes by calling me an idiot and this kind of crap happens. Are you happy now?
do you democrats on here really believe that this spending bill will help the economy? give me a break. Obama said on the campain trail hundreds of time that pres bush spent over 1 trillion dollars over eight years yet Obama wants 1 trillion in his first 2 weeks. this country needs help but not a pork filled spending bill. and if any of you dont like this country get the hell out. we dont want you here. Obama is not the messiah the media makes him out to be he is just a man and one that is trying to destroy this country as we know it. He wont get a second term. Sarah Palin will be president in four years
February 6th, 2009 at 6:47 pmThe difference is that Bush poured that 1 trillion into a sinkhole in Iraq.
Obama wants to spend 700 billion (not a trillion, nice try) in the United States where it will provide jobs for American workers displaced by the Bush Economy.
Wow. Are you sure you don’t have an interaction with some of your medications? I’d have that checked if I were you.
Maybe Sarah will chose Joe the Plumber as her running mate. Good luck with that one. At least she’s got four years to get her answers straight next time she’s asked what publications she reads.
February 6th, 2009 at 6:48 pmSo much for that liberal media conservatives regularly whine about, eh?
February 6th, 2009 at 6:50 pmYou’re just proving my point with every post, Jeffrey. I appreciate the help but I think you’ve done all you can. Best take a nap or have some juice.
February 6th, 2009 at 6:50 pmJeffrey, here’s a thought: next time you prepare a post, take a minute to read it over to yourself before you hit “Submit”. Try to read it as if someone else wrote it. See if it makes sense, like sentences you’ve read in magazines or magazines make sense. you know, one word follows logically on another to express a clear thought.
That seems to be where your problems lies. I think your ideas are grounded in superstition and right-wing rumor, but I can’t be sure because I can’t really be certain what you’re trying to say.
just a little constructive criticism buddy.
February 6th, 2009 at 6:56 pmThe spending bill is now at 925,000,000,000 with interest it will be 1,300,000,000,000.
“We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. . . . After eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. . . . And an enormous debt to boot!”
-Henry Morgenthau, FDR Treasury Secretary 1939
Thank God for WWII, its amazing how well the economy does when you remove 16,353,639 people to go serve in the military. That would sure slim down our unemployment problems even today.
February 6th, 2009 at 6:59 pmRalph the Wonder Lama:
The next time you hit submit you may what to using something called supporting evidence. Calling someone stupid does absolutely nothing to prove a point, disseminate information, or make friends.
February 6th, 2009 at 7:03 pmThere sure is a lot of name calling on this site. It does point to the sorry pass we are at. We can’t speak civilly to one another. We can’t even agree on what constitutes a fact or a reasonable interpretation of a fact.
I don’t myself myself as a liberal. I am progressive, very very progressive. And I think that the Republicans have a lot to answer for, nominating that foolish and incompetent man for President not once but twice. The American electorate has almost as much to answer for, those who supported him and those who rolled over in the face of election tampering at the federal level not once but twice. Shame on us all.
(And PLEASE do not slam me for calling GW “foolish” and “incompetent.” Those are facts about the man as I see the facts.)
I have been pondering for a couple of days now the situation we are in. It seems to me that there’s a racket and too many people are in on it: the investment bankers are sure in on it, as are the stockbrokers, the CEOs of every publicly traded company, the SEC, the IRS, Congress, the media. Consider how long it took–ten years–before the SEC blew the whistle on Madoff. Consider the paltry little fines the IRS levies against rich folks like Geithner and other Obama nominees (Dems all). Oh, I could go on and on about the abuses. So could you all.
None of these people are evil (IMHO), but neither are the “good.” They either have their hand in the till (those in business) or they anticipate getting their turn to put their hands in the till (those in government). They go from a job in business to a job in government to a job in business, sanctioning every little thing. As long as its profitable, they are not going to stop. Who is going to stope them? Frankly I don’t think Obama can, not because he lacks the will but because the racket is too big, it involves too many players and too much wealth.
The really sad thing is the way well-meaning working class and even middle-class Republicans have so bought into the illusion being spun (the liberals are out to destroy American) that they cheer the very people who are busy picking their pockets. I don’t need a study to tell me this. I have a wide circle of friends. I don’t just hang out with lefties.
Even the bickering and name calling that occurs on sites like this serves the racketeers because CHA CHING we are distracted and not watching the real game.
The real question here is, how do we intervene?
Probably taxation is the only non-violent means at our disposal, but try getting the rich, the decamillionaires and billionaires, to agree that they need to fund our recovery. And try getting the Dems to press that point.
February 6th, 2009 at 7:07 pmRalph the Wonder Lama Says: The difference is that Bush poured that 1 trillion into a sinkhole in Iraq.
-At least that last time they voted they voted for democracy.
February 6th, 2009 at 7:07 pmThat spending bill of which you speak hasn’t passed, has it? And I notice you don’t include any links.
Nice. Another wingnut hoping for war. Two of ‘em aren’t enough, huh? One thing you forget, though — there was a draft in WW2. And we ran up a tremendous national debt waging that war.
You know how we paid for it?
A top marginal tax rate of 91% all through the fifties. And the economy boomed.
February 6th, 2009 at 7:09 pmAnd how does that relate to either your point that the 1 trillion you claim Obama wants to spend is the exact same thing as the 1 billion that Bush did spend in iraq, or my point that your false equivalence undermines your point?
February 6th, 2009 at 7:10 pmProbably taxation is the only non-violent means at our disposal, but try getting the rich, the decamillionaires and billionaires, to agree that they need to fund our recovery. And try getting the Dems to press that point.
CLASS WARFARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CHARGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
February 6th, 2009 at 7:14 pmChristina19, you make some good points.
Especially about the name-calling. It’s regrettable sometimes, and when we do get a reasonable opposing voice on here (not often, as you’ll discover) some of the regulars are too quick to call “troll” on them. I try not to do that, to recognize reasonable, decently-structured arguments and deal with them on a respectable level.
Folks like our friend Jeffrey here are not among those, as you might have already recognized. And when guests like Jeffrey show up and display more pomposity than they’ve earned or claim the truth within confused, hopelessly knotted comments, well, they usually wind up getting the treatment they ask for.
February 6th, 2009 at 7:17 pmSee what I mean, Christina?
February 6th, 2009 at 7:17 pmAnd how does that relate to either your point that the 1 trillion you claim Obama wants to spend is the exact same thing as the 1 billion that Bush did spend in iraq, or my point that your false equivalence undermines your point?
The point is that in 50 years what Bush did will actually matter. Whereas Obama will likened to the case of FDR who averaged an unemployment rate of 19.2% before the War, however Obama doesn’t have a World War…yet.
February 6th, 2009 at 7:23 pmJeffrey Hulsebos Says:
The media damn well better show the voice of opposition to this kind of spending.
That’s not the media’s job. You’re now saying they should be politically biased?
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Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
In 2 weeks, Pelosi/Reid plan on spending almost twice as much money the the entirety of the War in Iraq.
No, it’s about in the same ballpark. Of course the Iraq war will have cost more by the time we get out. So, your math is crazy wrong. Anything based off of your crazy wrong math will be crazy wrong too.
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Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
By modest accounts 500,000,000,000 will be sent to companies that employ either public or private unions, which is only 20 percent of the workforce.
What accounts? How could such accounts be “modest,” seeing as how that’s 70% of the bill right there? Maybe we should just give another $500B to Wall Street, they don’t have unions…
Fact: when unions have been strong, the American economy has been strong. The periods of time that we view as economic “golden ages” are those with ascendant unions.
Besides, those companies are the ones that actually build real things, which we need to do if we’re expected to have sustainable economic growth. As the market crash has demonstrated, you can’t keep your growth if you’ve just been assigning higher and higher dollar values to fancy pieces of paper.
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Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
There are clauses in this bill that state that Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Jews will no longer be able to pray in college campuses that take federal money.
It’s already the law that colleges that take Federal money can’t mandate a specific religion. Always has been.
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Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
BTW. What the hell was Obama thinking when he limited CEO’s pay cap. I understand the populism anger towards people making money, but these banks are returning 300 million a month dividends, and will probably be the only success story of this bail out B.S.
If they were doing well, they wouldn’t have needed bailout funds.
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Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
To the comment about the Deregulation that caused this bubble to pop, it was actually the lack of enforcement of the regulation that caused this. The Dem Congress was alerted to this 2 years ago, and they decided to play politics.
We’re aware of that bill. However, Fannie & Freddie didn’t cause the problem; it was systemic to the entire mortgage and finance industry. So trying to make them the scapegoats won’t work. The problem was enforcement of SEC regulations as well as companies trading CDS’s and CDS insurance without regard for the actual risk and valuation of the underlying assets.
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Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
Here is the reasoning. These CEO’s have millions of dollars. It doesn’t do anything by limiting their pay to 500,000 dollars except tell the American public that President Obama thinks that they are doing such a good job that they should be working on the Federal payroll and still be paid more than him.
No, he’s just saying that they’re getting paid too much, and that taxpayers shouldn’t be funding how overpaid they are.
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Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
I can’ blame the Democrats for everything. It seems as though Bush was telling Republican senators about this starting in 2001.
You’re just scapegoating Fannie and Freddie for the entire collapse again. It’s a stupid tactic. Stop it.
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md123 Says:
do you democrats on here really believe that this spending bill will help the economy?
Yes.
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md123 Says:
Obama said on the campain trail hundreds of time that pres bush spent over 1 trillion dollars over eight years yet Obama wants 1 trillion in his first 2 weeks. this country needs help but not a pork filled spending bill.
Your method is what destroyed the economy. If you hadn’t destroyed the economy, we might not have to spend so damn much. It’s your guys’ fault that we do.
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md123 Says:
and if any of you dont like this country get the hell out. we dont want you here.
That’s exactly what I have to say to people who believe in signing statements, torture, extraordinary rendition, suspension of habeus corpus, warrantless wiretapping and “real vs. fake America.” If you don’t believe in the Constitution, then kindly leave the geographic region governed by it.
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md123 Says:
Obama is not the messiah the media makes him out to be he is just a man…
You’re the ones who keep calling him that. We don’t call him that.
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md123 Says:
Sarah Palin will be president in four years
Well, I certainly hope that she’ll be the Republican nominee in 2012. And appoints Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher as her veep pick.
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Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
The spending bill is now at 925,000,000,000 with interest it will be 1,300,000,000,000.
It isn’t “now at” anything, because it hasn’t been finalized. By the way, I didn’t count the interest on the Iraq war…
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Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
Thank God for WWII, its amazing how well the economy does when you remove 16,353,639 people to go serve in the military. That would sure slim down our unemployment problems even today.
Removing people from the economy does the exact opposite of helping GDP.
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Christina19 Says:
Consider the paltry little fines the IRS levies against rich folks like Geithner and other Obama nominees (Dems all).
The fines and interest assessed are at a fixed rate, according to the tax code. They don’t get to just pick an arbitrary number. It’s the same amount that would be levied to anyone who made the same mistake on the same total. There have been a total of 3 people with past tax errors out of all of his nominees. There have also been a total of 3 Republicans. The odds that they’d overlap are small, just on pure statistics.
February 6th, 2009 at 7:30 pmObviously, I didn’t make my question clear, as you failed to answer it. see if you can follow this:
md123 initially made this comment:
Obama said on the campain trail hundreds of time that pres bush spent over 1 trillion dollars over eight years yet Obama wants 1 trillion in his first 2 weeks
My response was:
You then responded to my comment thusly:
A little cryptic, but it was clear you were commenting on my response.
So I wondered what your comment had to do with the original point from md123.
in other words, what did Iraqis “voting for democracy” have to do with the difference between Bush dumping 1 trillion into Iraq with no return for the American people and Obama requesting less than a trillion in order to shore up the nation’s economy?
February 6th, 2009 at 7:30 pm1 trillion into Iraq = Democracy
1 trillion into U.S. government expansions = Socialism
At least they voted for Democracy
February 6th, 2009 at 7:37 pmJeffrey Hulsebos Says:
CLASS WARFARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CHARGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You guys started it. Technically, it’s just a “class recognition of hostilities.”
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ralph the wonder llama Says:
Especially about the name-calling. It’s regrettable sometimes, and when we do get a reasonable opposing voice on here (not often, as you’ll discover) some of the regulars are too quick to call “troll” on them.
The thing to note is that some people respond rationally, and some people just enjoy ranting at right wingers. Don’t let it get you down. The trick is to engage the people who are engaging rationally, and let the rest slide.
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Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
The point is that in 50 years what Bush did will actually matter. Whereas Obama will likened to the case of FDR who averaged an unemployment rate of 19.2% before the War…
So your conclusion that Obama will fail is logically predicated on the premise that he will fail. Got it.
February 6th, 2009 at 7:37 pmJeffrey Hulsebos Says:
1 trillion into Iraq = Democracy
1 trillion into U.S. government expansions = Socialism
At least they voted for Democracy
I’m not willing to spend a trillion bucks on a label. I’d rather look at the tangible results, where the rubber meets the road. So would most voters.
February 6th, 2009 at 7:41 pmLet me try to get this straight, because it’s still kind of confusing;
are you saying that 1 trillion dollars, borrowed from the Chinese and dumped into Iraq was worth it because Iraq “voted for democracy”?
But 1 trillion dollars, borrowed from the Chinese and invested in roads, bridges, green technology and American jobs so that we don’t fall into another Depression (which broke at the end of a long period of republican governance, by the way) is a waste of money?
Is that what you’re trying to say, Jeffrey? It kinda sounds like it, but at the same time it sounds like you don’t want to admit it.
February 6th, 2009 at 7:42 pmNo worries, ElBruce. I think backup and Keltoi occasionally deserve the troll tag, but I think they get tagged when they don’t deserve it too.
No biggie. They’re big boys who know how the game is played and they still show up to do battle.
February 6th, 2009 at 7:46 pmNot surprising. All the business stations are hardcore free market capitalists. For them Economy = Stock Market. The only thing they want is corporate and capital gains tax cuts.
February 6th, 2009 at 7:47 pmIt’s already the law that colleges that take Federal money can’t mandate a specific religion. Always has been.
-Yes they can’t mandate a religion is completely different they saying banning all religious activities. I rather enjoyed my schools Diwali celebration this year, I don’t want the Fed stopping it.
It isn’t “now at” anything, because it hasn’t been finalized. By the way, I didn’t count the interest on the Iraq war…
Right now the Iraq war has cost 600,000,000,000 pretty damn cheap for Toppling what was once the world’s 4th largest military.
Removing people from the economy does the exact opposite of helping GDP.
-Really removing people who aren’t working is going to reduce the GDP, explain your logic?
You’re just scapegoating Fannie and Freddie for the entire collapse again. It’s a stupid tactic. Stop it.
-They do the mortgage lending right? Property ownership is what the economy was built off of right? But no, the government is to blame, they did a piss poor job enforcing the regulations.
What accounts? How could such accounts be “modest,” seeing as how that’s 70% of the bill right there? Maybe we should just give another $500B to Wall Street, they don’t have unions…
Fact: when unions have been strong, the American economy has been strong. The periods of time that we view as economic “golden ages” are those with ascendant unions.
Besides, those companies are the ones that actually build real things, which we need to do if we’re expected to have sustainable economic growth. As the market crash has demonstrated, you can’t keep your growth if you’ve just been assigning higher and higher dollar values to fancy pieces of paper.
Ben Steins accounts:
http://spectator.org/archives/2009/01/29/a-bleak-day
Fact: Unions ruin efficiency. Unions have never been more strong, so strong that just the SEIU spent at least 75 million to get Obama elected and set up a 10 million dollar fund to campaign against those who voted against the not-so-Free Choice Act. They are so strong that the UAW, can dictate which shops will remain open, How much over the average auto worker they will make (how much the tax payer will pay them), and which particular rivit a worker will rivit. There is a reason why any major city has 3x the U.S. dealers than Japanese dealers but sell the same amount of cars. Now they are so strong that 20% of America’s uneducated are going to dictate how America will spend its money.
The money should be spend on 3 things: Tax-Breaks, Transportation, Securing the Housing Market. Tax-Breaks to make sure there aren’t anymore multi-thousand person lay offs.
No matter what Obama says the Bill will do for transportation they are only throwing 30-50 Billion dollars at the problem, which isn’t even enough for Rhode Islands problems. I shouldn’t even have to explain the Housing, although it seems at times that Dems would love it if the little people would just like in communal projects holding their hands out for the next dispersement of unemployment, but the amount of money in this bill could buy every unemployed person their own house.
-This thing is a debacle
February 6th, 2009 at 8:15 pmJeffrey, I for one appreciate the effort it took to type out all of those words.
Fortunately, you’ve already given ample demonstration of your ability to build a compelling argument, so I was spared the extra effort of trying to decipher this one.
That Ben Stein link wasn’t really a step in the right direction, either. (Do you really think linking to wingnut opinion pieces is really going to convince anyone who isn’t already in the choir? Just a thought.)
February 6th, 2009 at 8:29 pmLet me try to get this straight, because it’s still kind of confusing;
are you saying that 1 trillion dollars, borrowed from the Chinese and dumped into Iraq was worth it because Iraq “voted for democracy”?
But 1 trillion dollars, borrowed from the Chinese and invested in roads, bridges, green technology and American jobs so that we don’t fall into another Depression (which broke at the end of a long period of republican governance, by the way) is a waste of money?
Is that what you’re trying to say, Jeffrey? It kinda sounds like it, but at the same time it sounds like you don’t want to admit it.
-Going along with your recollection of history, you might note that FDR only used the equivalence of 500,000,000,000 dollars to solve a 23.6% unemployment problem. You might also note that this amount of money only reduced it to 14.6% at the start of WWII, to which it was reduced to 4% because 16 million more people were employed by the government. Looking again at history at the end of Carter’s debacle the unemployment rate was 10.8 with an average GDP growth of 1.8 % over his for years, to the Reagan plan which resulted in in a 2% reduction and an average growth of GDP of 3.6%, which is the highest since the end of the 1950’s. But I have to hand it to Obama for pulling out the trickle-down economics except this time is trickling from the government.
February 6th, 2009 at 8:53 pmIf we are so f ucking poor maybe the Borgen Project could help out…
February 6th, 2009 at 8:58 pmI don’t think the guy who wrote this is a wingnut.
Can anyone even remember now what Nixon did that was so terrible? He ended the war in Vietnam, brought home the POW’s, ended the war in the Mideast, opened relations with China, started the first nuclear weapons reduction treaty, saved Eretz Israel’s life, started the Environmental Protection Administration. Does anyone remember what he did that was bad?
Oh, now I remember. He lied. He was a politician who lied. How remarkable. He lied to protect his subordinates who were covering up a ridiculous burglary that no one to this date has any clue about its purpose. He lied so he could stay in office and keep his agenda of peace going. That was his crime. He was a peacemaker and he wanted to make a world where there was a generation of peace. And he succeeded.
That is his legacy. He was a peacemaker. He was a lying, conniving, covering up peacemaker. He was not a lying, conniving drug addict like JFK, a lying, conniving war starter like LBJ, a lying, conniving seducer like Clinton—a lying, conniving peacemaker.
-Ben Stein
February 6th, 2009 at 8:58 pmWanna take a stab at answering my question again?
“Cause you didn’t come within a mile of it that time.
The question was simple: I asked if what you were saying was that 1 trillion poured into Iraq was money well spent but 700 billion poured into the United States was a bad idea.
Is that what you were saying? If not, then what did you mean by
1 trillion into Iraq = Democracy
1 trillion into U.S. government expansions = Socialism
At least they voted for Democracy
February 6th, 2009 at 9:02 pmBecause its not being spent on the United States. I will not see one dime, my friends will not see one dime, when I get out of the Navy maybe then I will see a dime, but I doubt it. Money spent on the United States is to be spent on securing liberty for the individual, not so the Democrats can funnel tax payer’s money through unions back into their reelections.
February 6th, 2009 at 9:06 pmJeffrey, you don’t think Ben Stein is a right-winger? (I apologize if you somehow missed that connotation of the term “wingnut”).
A sad defense of Richard Nixon’s crimes is kind of a tip-off to me.
If you don’t think so, then that’s just one more reason to question your ability to distinguish a reasonable argument from an unreasonable one.
By the way, when you copy-and-paste someone else’s words, it helps to “set them off” somehow to distinguish them from your own. Some use quotation marks. I like to use italics, and when I’m responding to another post, you might have noticed I use the “blockquote” command.
I think it helps the reader follow what I’m saying.
February 6th, 2009 at 9:07 pmOy, Jeffrey. Let’s try this one more time.
Please try to keep in your mind the question I am asking. If it will help, I will try to simplify it.
Are you saying that 1 trillion spent in Iraq is a good thing, but 700 billion spent in the US is not?
Simple, yes/no.
February 6th, 2009 at 9:09 pmIf it were being spent on the U.S. it would be a good thing. However, it is not. I have no idea where you are getting the idea that we spent a trillion in Iraq-even from left wing websites:
http://zfacts.com/p/447.html
And you keep on minimizing the amount in the Wish-List:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/06/us/politics/06stimulus.html?hp
The bottom-line is this:
Unless you work for a union, ie. heavily sponsor and support Democrats you don’t get paid.
February 6th, 2009 at 9:15 pmELBruce says in response to my comment on trolls:
Good point, ELBruce. Also, well stated…”steaming piles…” still has me laughing. I do find that I can skip DTOM2009 because his comments are usualy recapitulated by responders. Thus, I am saved from reading him twice.
ralph the wonder llama
Yes, DTOM2009’s choice of Ben Stein was unfortunate. Your response was spot on.
February 6th, 2009 at 9:16 pmJeffrey, what is it about “yes/no” questions that has you perplexed?
Here. Maybe this will help:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes-no_question
February 6th, 2009 at 9:27 pmWow. “ral[hie” wasn’t foolin’
February 6th, 2009 at 9:32 pmHow does one replace a left bracket with a lowercase P?
February 6th, 2009 at 9:33 pmJeffrey, I’m afraid your source on the stimulus bill is a bit outdated. Current estimate of the agreed-on package is $780 billion.
And that cost-counter on Iraq is still moving upward, isn’t it? Are our troops home? No? When will they get home? What will the cost be then? Are you prepared to say it won’t be a trillion, as many have predicted? Should I instead use $2 trillion as my estimate?
February 6th, 2009 at 9:35 pmYou haven’t asked a logical question. Your premise is that this money is being spent on America to make it better. Therefore no matter how I answer it is irrelevant because the premise was incorrect. But I will do you this favor:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/economic_stimulus_package/support_for_stimulus_package_falls_to_37
Americans will never forget this failure.
February 6th, 2009 at 9:36 pmBut its still higher an American’s support for Congress.
February 6th, 2009 at 9:37 pmJeffrey, have you been at the cooking sherry?
Tell the truth. I won’t be mad as long as you tell me the truth.
February 6th, 2009 at 9:39 pmOh, Jeffrey… dismissing y question as “not logical” is so craven of you. I had so much higher expectations.
Here’s the deal:
You said:
1 trillion into Iraq = Democracy
1 trillion into U.S. government expansions = Socialism
At least they voted for Democracy
Now, do you agree you said that?
Okay, good. Now, I then asked if by saying this you were saying that $1 trillion spent in Iraq was better than $1 trillion spent in the US.
How much simpler can I make it?
February 6th, 2009 at 9:39 pmJeffrey Hulsebos Says:
Right now the Iraq war has cost 600,000,000,000 pretty damn cheap for Toppling what was once the world’s 4th largest military.
If in 2002 Bush had gone to America and said that he wanted to spend $600B to knock over Iraq just because their people deserved some democracy – he would have been chased out of Washington by a screaming mob, with economic conservatives leading the charge.
So why didn’t we invade Myanmar instead? Would have been cheaper.
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Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
They do the mortgage lending right? Property ownership is what the economy was built off of right? But no, the government is to blame, they did a piss poor job enforcing the regulations.
Yes, they and many many others do mortgage lending. You are blaming exactly 2 financial institutions for the collapse of dozens, with a straight face.
Yes, the government is to blame for lax regulation enforcement.
The point I was making was that the entire industry was engaging in unsafe practices. Not just one or two institutions. Not just a few that you or I would prefer to point our partisan fingers at. All of them. Nobody wanted to be left out of the CDS market because it appeared to be far too profitable. Unfortunately, those unregulated assets were overrated and overvalued.
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Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
Ben Steins accounts:
http://spectator.org/archives/2009/01/29/a-bleak-day
Wow, that link is all kinds of full of outright lies. He cites nothing… But don’t quote me someone else’s opinion piece. Especially not the guy who thinks that there’s a conspiracy to prevent schools from teaching creationism.
Fact: Unions ruin efficiency. Unions have never been more strong, so strong that just the SEIU spent at least 75 million to get Obama elected and set up a 10 million dollar fund to campaign against those who voted against the not-so-Free Choice Act. They are so strong that the UAW, can dictate which shops will remain open, How much over the average auto worker they will make (how much the tax payer will pay them), and which particular rivit a worker will rivit.
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Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
Fact: no they don’t. And their “strength” has been steadily declining since Reagan showed up. That’s in terms of how many workers are in unions, which is the only statistic that counts. (note: I cited a statistic rather than an incident). Negotiating things like pay rates and factory closures is what unions do. It’s what they’re for.
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The money should be spend on 3 things: Tax-Breaks, Transportation, Securing the Housing Market. Tax-Breaks to make sure there aren’t anymore multi-thousand person lay offs.
I’m totally with you on the transportation. But tax breaks don’t do it. That’s like a CEO trying to cost-control his way out of a poor earnings report. Never works. And I’m thinking the housing market deserves its own, separate bill (which should be rushed).
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Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
Going along with your recollection of history, you might note that FDR only used the equivalence of 500,000,000,000 dollars to solve a 23.6% unemployment problem.
Which just goes to show he should have spent more, earlier. The only problem with the New Deal is that it was too watered down to appease Republicans, and so the economy never got the proper boost that it really needed. Stimulus plans should be a major kick in the ass to get the economy going, or else they do risk getting stuck in a low-efficiency de-fact socialist structure.
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Looking again at history at the end of Carter’s debacle the unemployment rate was 10.8 with an average GDP growth of 1.8 % over his for years, to the Reagan plan which resulted in in a 2% reduction and an average growth of GDP of 3.6%, which is the highest since the end of the 1950’s.
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Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
I don’t think the guy who wrote this is a wingnut…
Ben Stein worked for Nixon. And yeah, he’s a wingnut. Nixon didn’t just lie, he broke the law in doing so. He actively attempted to conceal a crime.
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Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
Because its not being spent on the United States. I will not see one dime, my friends will not see one dime, when I get out of the Navy maybe then I will see a dime, but I doubt it.
So what you’re saying is you won’t “see a dime” because you’re currently in the Navy. So what, we should start more wars to increase your pay grade?
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Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
Money spent on the United States is to be spent on securing liberty for the individual, not so the Democrats can funnel tax payer’s money through unions back into their reelections.
If Dems make things good enough for 51% of the populace to get re-elected, there’s no grounds to complain about it. Unions or no.
Why do you wingnuts hate workers so much?
February 6th, 2009 at 9:42 pmHow much simpler can I make it?
—-
February 6th, 2009 at 9:43 pmWell you could have it read to him in the resource room so to speak…
But its still higher an American’s support for Congress.
—-
February 6th, 2009 at 9:44 pmCome again?
Yeah, that one had me scratchin’ my head, too.
February 6th, 2009 at 9:48 pmYes, it will have a longer and more effective impact. This Spending Bill is just the Flood-Gate, there will be more, and they will all do absolutely no good. Consumer confidence is at an all-time low. When people get there 1000 dollar tax credit they will just spend it on Japanese electronics and the money will just go back over seas. The removal of the “buy american’ cause will just cause contractors to buy supplies overseas, so yes Obama will watch 500 billion dollars get flushed down the toilet during his first month in office and the economy will not improve, because there will still be no consumer confidence. At least an Iraqi democracy will become the vanguard of the Islamic solution. I will guarantee that at least 1 autocratic middle eastern country will have a rebellion within 10 years, an it could have been Saudi Arabia until Moveon.org made a big stink about us moving military bases from Saudi Arabia into Iraqi. So absolutely, the money spent in Iraqi was better spent, even though I had to stand for Echo Taps for my classmates and had to deal with those Westboro Baptist traitors.
February 6th, 2009 at 9:51 pmJeffrey, was that “Yes” in response to my “Yes/No” question?
Jeffrey?
…Jeffrey?
February 6th, 2009 at 9:55 pmJeffrey Hulsebos Says:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/economic_stimulus_package/support_for_stimulus_package_falls_to_37
Americans will never forget this failure.
Again, you’re basing all of your arguments off of your conclusion that the bill will fail.
Speaking of that approval rating… Here’s the Gallup poll with a similar result. However, that’s just the % of people who like the bill exactly as written. But 76% of people want to pass some form of the bill.
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Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
But its still higher an American’s support for Congress.
I’m so glad you mentioned that. Here’s the poll being cited. Notice that it’s Congressional Republicans dragging the average waaaay down. Congressional Dems are at 37% by themselves. Republicans? 25%. Yeah.
February 6th, 2009 at 9:57 pmthe vanguard of the Islamic solution
February 6th, 2009 at 9:58 pm—
I like this weirdness. I like it a lot. I just hope it won’t be the vanguard of the FINAL Islamic solution. The jews will be pissed if somebody tries to step on their franchise…
Why do us wingnuts hate workers… If you can call someone who gets paid $25/hour without a college degree a worker than more power to you. But for the rest of us who have to buy their crap, its time to cut them off.
February 6th, 2009 at 10:01 pmThe Islamic solution is introducing actual democracy, so the individual can blame their own government for treating them like disposable garbage instead of blaming the big bad America.
February 6th, 2009 at 10:03 pmJeffrey Hulsebos Says:
Why do us wingnuts hate workers… If you can call someone who gets paid $25/hour without a college degree a worker than more power to you. But for the rest of us who have to buy their crap, its time to cut them off.
________
Wha… huh? What is this supposed to mean? Have you been drinking?
February 6th, 2009 at 10:06 pmJeffrey Hulsebos Says:
Yes, it will have a longer and more effective impact. This Spending Bill is just the Flood-Gate, there will be more, and they will all do absolutely no good. Consumer confidence is at an all-time low.
All I’m hearing is wah wah, it won’t work, wah… Very Eeyore, but not convincing in the slightest.
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Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
When people get there 1000 dollar tax credit they will just spend it on Japanese electronics and the money will just go back over seas. The removal of the “buy american’ cause will just cause contractors to buy supplies overseas,
So what we need is protectionism? Interesting.
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Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
so yes Obama will watch 500 billion dollars get flushed down the toilet during his first month in office and the economy will not improve, because there will still be no consumer confidence.
Cheer up, emo kid!
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Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
At least an Iraqi democracy will become the vanguard of the Islamic solution. I will guarantee that at least 1 autocratic middle eastern country will have a rebellion within 10 years,
“The Islamic solution,” huh? I hadn’t heard that term before. Thanks for the warning. And I don’t see how your guarantee is going to work. Is Iraq supposed to undermine its own neighbors?
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Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
an it could have been Saudi Arabia until Moveon.org made a big stink about us moving military bases from Saudi Arabia into Iraqi.
Hm. Moveon.org singlehandedly prevented the Saudi revolution. Color me impressed!
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Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
So absolutely, the money spent in Iraqi was better spent…
If you grant that all domestic investment will completely fail and that rampant military adventurism will wildly succeed beyond everyone’s craziest neocon fantasies, then sure!
By that logic, they should have given $1 trillion to me because I can give everybody magic wands and we’ll all live happily ever after! My argument: 1) Nothing else works at all. 2) My magic wands will really work great.
February 6th, 2009 at 10:07 pmYeah, yeah we’ve got a 37% IN YOUR FACE!!!!
History have proven without a doubt that this kind of spending fails.
“We are spending more money than we have ever spent before, and it does not work. … I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises. … I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started … and an enormous debt, to boot.”
February 6th, 2009 at 10:08 pmFDR Secretary of Treasurty 1939
DB,
Correction Tape!
Your welcome
February 6th, 2009 at 10:09 pmWell I sure as hell hope they introduce that concept to the USA soon as I am so tired of hearing the white trash continually blame the big bad government for all of their problems and inability to pay a few simple taxes to provide the shit they feel entitled to.
February 6th, 2009 at 10:09 pmI call anyone a worker who performs a task for which they’ve been chosen and for which they’ll be paid.
If the task is valuable enough, $25 an hour seems a paltry sum, and a college degree seems irrelevant to the performance of said task.
I thought right-wingers were always bragging about their commitment to “merit-based pay”?
Was I wrong about that?
February 6th, 2009 at 10:14 pm(Psst, TRoS.. I noticed the cap was off the cooking sherry… say nothing. I’m hoping he’ll own up.)
February 6th, 2009 at 10:14 pmYou never want a serious crisis to go to waste. What I mean by that is it’s an opportunity to do things that you think you could not do before. This is an opportunity. What used to be long-term problems — be they in the health care area, energy area, education area, fiscal area, tax area, regulatory reform area — things that we had postponed for too long that were long-term are now immediate and must be dealt with. And this crisis provides the opportunity for us, as I would say, the opportunity to do things that you could not do before.
February 6th, 2009 at 10:14 pm-Rahm Emanuel
(giddy as a school girl that the country is in trouble)
Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
Why do us wingnuts hate workers… If you can call someone who gets paid $25/hour without a college degree a worker than more power to you. But for the rest of us who have to buy their crap, its time to cut them off
Just how underpaid does somebody have to be before you’ll stop blaming them for everything that’s wrong with America? So basically the problem is that there’s still too much daylight between the American work force and slave labor camps? We need to get down to some crazy third world shit so we can be productive?
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Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
The Islamic solution is introducing actual democracy, so the individual can blame their own government for treating them like disposable garbage instead of blaming the big bad America.
OK, let’s set aside term “Islamic solution,” which suggests that you’re trying to “solve” Islam itself.
I think an essential problem with the neocon argument is that you’ve got the causal chain backwards: 1) we force them into democracy, 2) they like us because they’re grateful. It would work better the other way around: 1) we get them to like us, 2) they become democracies because we set a good example.
February 6th, 2009 at 10:16 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
(Psst, TRoS.. I noticed the cap was off the cooking sherry… say nothing. I’m hoping he’ll own up.)
________
There is a certain stuttering incoherence to this one, huh? From the tenor of his last few posts, I assume he’s now talking to himself.
Once he finally nods out, I say we dip his hand in a bowl of warm water… just make sure the camcorder is set up first.
February 6th, 2009 at 10:19 pmJeffery,
Rush is not your friend.
Just sayin
February 6th, 2009 at 10:20 pmJeffrey Hulsebos Says:
You never want a serious crisis to go to waste.
____________
You mean, like Botch didn’t?
http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/trifecta.htm
9/11 Leads to W’s “Trifecta”
Shortly after Sept. 11, George W. Bush interrupted his inveighing against evildoers to crack a joke. “Lucky me,” he remarked to Mitch Daniels, his budget director. “I hit the trifecta.” Source
Apparently, Bush thought the joke successful enough to repeat on other occasions, usually to his fellow republicans and benefactors:
“Obviously, we’ve got budget matters. You know, when I was running for President, in Chicago, somebody said, would you ever have deficit spending? I said, only if we were at war, or only if we had a recession, or only if we had a national emergency. Never did I dream we’d get the trifecta.” (Laughter.)
Taft for Governor Luncheon, Ohio, May 10, 2002
“You know, I was campaigning in Chicago and somebody asked me, is there ever any time where the budget might have to go into deficit? I said only if we were at war or had a national emergency or were in recession. Little did I realize we’d get the trifecta. (Laughter.) But we’re fine.”
Remarks at GOP Luncheon, February 27, 2002 White House release
____________
That Botch… as giddy as a drunken GOOPer spending someone else’s money in DC whorehouse!!!
February 6th, 2009 at 10:23 pmJeffrey looves him some “FDR Secretary of Treasury 1939″ doesn’t he?
‘Course, what Jeffrey doesn’t mention is that the Secretary in question, Henry Morgenthau urged Roosevelt to cut spending in the mid-30s, mindful of the national debt. It was this cut that most economists blame for the “second dip” into recession in 1937, and Morgenthau’s advice was ignored by Roosevelt thereafter.
As for the current right-wing meme:
February 6th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
History have proven without a doubt that this kind of spending fails.
Nope. It has proven no such thing.
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“… I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started … and an enormous debt, to boot.”
FDR Secretary of Treasurty 1939
Unemployment was steadily decreasing until Republicans convinced FDR to balance the budget in 1938. But the problem all along was he didn’t do enough, early enough. And that’s because people like you were trying to stop him.
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Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
(giddy as a school girl that the country is in trouble)
You haven’t backed up your “giddy” claim. In fact, I can’t even imagine Rahmbo “giddy.”
Looks like what he’s saying is that unless things are very bad, you don’t get to make important and necessary changes. Things are now very bad. Therefore we should take this moment to make important and necessary changes. I agree completely with his statement.
February 6th, 2009 at 10:23 pmTRoS, I like the way you think.
I say we draw a mustache on him too.
February 6th, 2009 at 10:23 pmAn uneducated worker should be willing to swim through raw sewage for that kind of money. Instead they call there union reps to punish their managers because they were told go work in an assembly line that they weren’t originally assigned to, have the balls to send a representative to Congress with the big 2 1/2 when they cant make cars people want to buy, agree to wage increases when the CEO’s tell them that will mean more layoffs, and fight for regulations that were established in the 1950’s when no foreign automakers could even scratch the U.S. market. Well times have changed, and they can either make believe they live in fantasy world when people are refusing to buy their products or they can suck and accept that this is whats happening:
http://politicaldemotivation.com/
February 6th, 2009 at 10:24 pmSorry. I know Jeffrey loves links, so here’s a couple:
http://eh.net/lists/archives/eh.res/feb-1997/0010.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Deal#cite_note-52
Enjoy.
February 6th, 2009 at 10:26 pmYes its time to trash a system that created this:
http://www.geekarmy.com/cool/2929/National-GDP-Comparison/
February 6th, 2009 at 10:27 pmSounds like Jeffrey has a weird concept of the value of labor.
Me, I figure if the worker performs a task that helps the company make a profit, that worker should be justly compensated.
Jeffrey apparently feels that a worker’s value to the company is based on his willingness to subject his body to unhealthful contaminants, regardless of the value of his effort to the company.
Fascinating.
February 6th, 2009 at 10:29 pmWhy do us wingnuts hate workers… If you can call someone who gets paid $25/hour without a college degree a worker than more power to you. But for the rest of us who have to buy their crap, its time to cut them off.
February 6th, 2009 at 10:29 pm—
But if they swing a stick at a ball or drive a car in a circle let’s give em millions so our dumbs asses can watch?
Still it is important that they dude that runs into your home to pull out your toddler with those smoke filled lungs be a volunteer right?
Loved the New Deal link. A healthy economy should have an unemployment rate of 3-6% FDR never had that. It was always way to much unemployment or way to much Federal employment.
February 6th, 2009 at 10:30 pmSounds like you have a weird concept of business, which is to make money not to employ people. When they can’t stay in business they don’t employ people.
February 6th, 2009 at 10:32 pmWell, Jeffrey, now that you seem to have a handle on “Yes/No” questions (although that has not been confirmed yet) perhaps it’s time to move on to simple argumentation.
When one is intending to argue a point, one is generally advised to make one’s argument in favor of that point as simple and direct as possible.
This helps the audience focus on the salient issues and understand the perspective from which one is arguing.
charts and visual aids can help, of course, but — and here’s the key thing — only if they illustrate something relevant about the point you’re making.
now, I know this is a lot to take in all at once, so maybe we’d better stop there for now. Why don’t you practice? Go find a chart that says something relevant about the point you’re trying to get across.
I’ll time you. Ready… GO!
February 6th, 2009 at 10:34 pmJeffrey, you DO understand that the Depression began in 1929, right? And Roosevelt didn’t become president until 1933? So that was over three years for the Republican administration to do nothing while the situation got worse, right?
You understand all that, don’t you?
You can admit it if you don’t. We won’t think any less of you.
And I’m still waiting to find out what happened to that bottle of cooking sherry…
February 6th, 2009 at 10:36 pmThat Firefighter argument is ridiculous, every community sees the value of paying for services to protect life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. Except for the inner-city community, that I have to provide free health care to, while they complain.
February 6th, 2009 at 10:39 pmBut… I thought you guys extolled the virtues of “small business employing people”?
Did I get that wrong?
February 6th, 2009 at 10:41 pmJeffrey, why would someone choose to spend his life providing free health care to people if he felt about them the way that you feel?
God bless you for the work you do treating poor people in the inner city, but I pray God can turn your heart to have compassion for those people to whom you minister in the ghetto.
February 6th, 2009 at 10:44 pmOf course, maybe they wouldn’t complain if you didn’t look down on them as you treated them for illness.
just sayin’.
February 6th, 2009 at 10:45 pmYou do realize that the unemployment didn’t sky rocket until 1932 right? Even a year after the stock market crash it was only 8 percent. Things didn’t even get that bad until Protectionism set in with the Smith-Hawley Tariff Act, or didn’t Nancy Pelosi warn you about the buy American Clause.
February 6th, 2009 at 10:47 pmThis behavior by the news channels is one of the key reasons we do not yet have a bill. This delay simply adds another 150,000 a week to the unemployment rolls and is absoletely shameful. One would think that the sponsors would have a fill of this because they need demand to pick up for their products. It is not going to happen under these circumstances.
February 6th, 2009 at 10:52 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
TRoS, I like the way you think.
___________
Aw shucks…
___________
I say we draw a mustache on him too.
___________
Perhaps we cn write “F()ck me!” backwards across his forehead in toothpaste* too… so’s when he goes and looks at himself in the mirror after waking up…
*based on a true life adventure… teehee…
February 6th, 2009 at 10:54 pmYes they complain that they don’t get served quickly like they would at a McDonalds. “Goddamn, I’ve been sittin here for an hour, damn gotta get me some free health care, maybe I can convince that doctor to give me some Oxycontin so I can go sell it.” Yes its my fault that I get sent to provide free health care for a population that has a higher infant mortality rate than Uruguay. Don’t even try to blame it on poverty.
Non-Hispanic Black American Infant Mortality: 13.7
February 6th, 2009 at 10:55 pmHispanic American Infant Mortality: 5.6
Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
Except for the inner-city community, that “I HAVE TO PROVIDE” free health care to, while they complain.
__________
Sniff… sniff… poor li’l feller… talk about bearing a cross…
Okay, everybody, in the key of C…
“Nobody knooooows the troubles I’ve seeeeen…”
February 6th, 2009 at 10:55 pmUm… who was president in 1932, Jeffrey?
You sure you wanna stick with that story?
Looks to me like unemployment peaked in 1933 (when Roosevelt took office, in March) and then fell continuously until 1938, when Roosevelt, on advice of folks like his Treasury Secretary, scaled back spending in an ill-advised effort to balance the budget.
February 6th, 2009 at 10:59 pmAnd to what do you attribute this discrepancy, Jeffrey?
And BTW, in what specialty are you trained?
February 6th, 2009 at 11:00 pmThe Navy will be training me in Emergency Medicine.
I would attribute this to the Hispanic American’s genuine ability to take care of him/herself and their family. They have the lowest divorce rate compared to all ethnicities of Americans and probably the best work ethic. I wouldn’t be surprised if they dominated the middle class within my lifetime.
February 6th, 2009 at 11:06 pmJeffrey Hulsebos Says:
“… I can convince that doctor to give me some Oxycontin so I can go sell it.”
_______________
Sell it to who… El Rushbo???
If you hate what you’re doing that much, why don’t you go do something else?
_______________
BTW, what exactly do you do?
I will not see one dime, my friends will not see one dime, when I get out of the Navy maybe then I will see a dime, but I doubt it.
_______________
Here you claim you’re in the Navy, but above you claim you’re dispensing free medical care to inner-city people. How’s that work?
February 6th, 2009 at 11:11 pmThey WILL be?
You mean, you’re not a doctor at the moment? Oh, my! I certainly thought, by the way you portrayed your noble work, that you were a selfless, dedicated physician (with an admittedly abysmal bedside manner, of course).
Interesting. You addressed why the Hispanic infant mortality rate is in line with that of most other ethnicities by saying it was the result of their ability to take care of themselves.
Yet your original point was the shockingly high rate among African Americans, and you completely ignored that, almost as if it had never been asked.
Can you explain?
February 6th, 2009 at 11:12 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
The Navy will be training me in Emergency Medicine.
They WILL be?
You mean, you’re not a doctor at the moment?
______________
Well, in Jeffrey’s defesne, he hasn’t SAID exactly what he is in the moment… other than annoyed w/ us… sniff… sniff… I’m sorry, Li’l Feller. No, I am.
February 6th, 2009 at 11:23 pmI am an Ensign in the Navy. I go to Medical School, the Medical School sends me into the inner city, I work for a doctor there, I interview patients, diagnose them write up a script, the doctor looks at it tells me how bad I screwed up then signs it.
Any intelligent conversation ends when Rush Limbaugh gets mentioned, the same way it ends when Hilter gets mentioned.
When did I say I was a doctor? I’m pretty sure I said I was getting sent there.
Well for the African American Community its quite the opposite, the highest divorce rate, the highest birth out of wedlock rate 68%, highest abortion rate, highest HIV contraction rate 54% of all new cases-whereas Hispanics were only 18%. African-Americans are 20X more likely to get Gonorrhea/Chlamydia than Whites.
I don’t know how you could possibly think that there is any question that Hispanics will dominate Middle-Class politics within the next 50 years. They work hard for every inch they get, for the most part are healthier than Whites in any judgment, and have happier families.
February 6th, 2009 at 11:32 pmHmmm… building roads and schools in Iraq -…. good. Building roads and schools in America… bad. Got it.
February 6th, 2009 at 11:50 pmHaha, someone still thinks this Bill is about building roads. Here is the cost of the big dig that happened in Boston, MA. 22 Billion Dollars
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig_(Boston,_Massachusetts)
Only 50 billion dollars are slated in the “Stimulus” Pakage. This happened after Senate Republicans found that only 30 billion were slated, but still its about enough to repair Rhode Island.
February 6th, 2009 at 11:55 pmNo, I’m pretty sure you said that you “provide health care” for them. In fact, I’m sure of it:
” its my fault that I get sent to provide free health care for a population that has a higher infant mortality rate than Uruguay.”
Impressive list of statistics. Unfortunately, we face that old problem of yours — the inability to actually answer a question. You see, Jeffrey, I asked to what you attributed the discrepancy between the infant mortality rates of different ethnic groups. Your first attempt to answer simply talked about Hispanics and ignored African-Americans. now your second attempt simply recites statistics, with no conjecture as to their root causes. You obviously recognized that part of my question when you provided it for Hispanics. So why the reticence, Jeffrey?
I don’t recall anyone saying anything derogatory about Hispanic-Americans.
February 6th, 2009 at 11:56 pmJeffrey Hulsebos Says:
I don’t recall anyone saying anything derogatory about Hispanic-Americans.
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I noticed that too, ralph. If I’m not mistaken, Jeff’s train might finally be arriving at the station. Three… two… one…
February 7th, 2009 at 12:01 amJeffrey Hulsebos Says:
Jeffrey, no offence but I think you mean the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act, passed in 1930 if memory serves.
So, if I understand correctly, you’re studying to be a Naval Hospital Corpsman. A laudable goal. I wish you every success.
February 7th, 2009 at 12:25 amralph the wonder llama:
You have excellent writing skills. And, in addition to getting you point accross, you evoke laughter. A real talent.
If I may be so droll as to ask, what is your background.
February 7th, 2009 at 12:29 amAs is evidenced by the written record above, you can see – one and all – that my typing skills a woefully inadequate.
February 7th, 2009 at 12:32 amIts basically because the community as a whole has bought into a national socialist lie. Sold to them by a man who put Japanese into internment camps. Whenever, a member of this community: Condi Rice, Clarence Thomas, Michael Steele, Ken Blackwell, Jesee Lee Peterson, Ward Connerly breaks out and claims that they no longer need be enslaved to the idea that the government will take care of their wants, they get criticized beyond belief. In the case of RNC Chairman Steele it was last week on SNL, insisting that he only got the job because he was black. Saying that he hadn’t accomplished anything like Obama.(well I’m sorry but his life story is a hell of a lot more compelling, he was raised by a single parent who refused to live off of welfare, not some Harvard educated economist) When this kind of garbage is happening the Community will always look for the next handout, its in social nature. The tough part is that the human body and mind wasn’t meant to receive handouts, it was meant to spend at lot of time struggling to survive(just read about the history of insulin/glucagon) and when it doesn’t wacky shit happens, such as in Sweden where they rely on importing refuges to maintain their population or here when African-Americans have health statistics so bad that they bring our national statics to approach those of a developing country.
February 7th, 2009 at 12:39 amYou typed THEY will be? Like there was some kind of doubt.
Nope. Corpsmen are enlisted they are the real meat and potatoes of the organization. I am a commissioned officer studying to be a doctor, so I can travel to the developing world and take care of people in real need.
My background is a great grandson of a Dutch Immigrant who founded the Holland Hitch. I have a B.S. in Biochemistry from the Military College of Vermont, a M.S. in Physiology and Biophysics from Georgetown University. Father is a professor at Brown University and Mother is a registered nurse at an intercity hospital. One brother is a pilot in the Marines, and the other brother is a Biological Computer Programmer. Drink a shit load of Mexicola, and hardly ever smoke.
February 7th, 2009 at 12:49 amI guess this blog is useless now because they’ve signed the 827 billion dollar sham.
February 7th, 2009 at 12:50 amJeffrey Hulsebos you earlier referenced congressional approval ratings. You omit the fact that republcans are the ones pulling the ratings down:
Republicans in Congress Less Popular Than Bush
Just another lie you have been caught in tonight.
February 7th, 2009 at 1:16 amJeffrey, you’ve been fun to spar with, but your limited understanding of our shared national history (and your apparent willingness to embrace certain facts and ignore others) is dispiriting and the lack of empathy you display, while not surprising for a conservative, is unfortunate for one who seeks to treat human illness. I, like 45ACP, applaud your service and your ambition, but I wish you had a little more curiosity about others, and a little less certainty about what you think you know.
I find humility almost always serves well those who display it. Snap judgments almost always serve poorly those who make them.
I say these things based on what I read from your keyboard. You seem young, much younger than one would have to be to have earned an MS, and you sometimes struggle to express yourself clearly. You also struggle to understand what others are saying to you — this is why I think you have an issue with snap judgments.
I don’t really expect you to take any of this seriously; you haven’t shown that kind of openness this evening. But I say it on the off chance that it could be useful for you to hear.
February 7th, 2009 at 1:17 amthe link didn’t come through
February 7th, 2009 at 1:17 amone more time:
February 7th, 2009 at 1:18 amhttp://www.gallup.com/poll/113449/Republicans-Congress-Less-Popular-Than-Bush.aspx
I guess the link came through……doh. I can’t see it but my cursor changes to a hand when I hover over where it is supposed to be…..sorry all for the multiple posts.
February 7th, 2009 at 1:25 amJeffrey Hulsebos Says:
The Islamic solution is introducing actual democracy, so the individual can blame their own government for treating them like disposable garbage instead of blaming the big
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So what is the solution for brainwashed moronic twits like YOU? You are WAY too stupid to be allowed to corrupt our gene pool. You ARE disposable garbage. That is your best feature. Heartless brainless morons like you without a shred of decency should be put away where you cant harm anyone and given the massive doses of anti-psychotics you need so badly. Treating you like your putrid and ignorant opinions have any validity only reinforces your stupidity and delusions. You are ignorant and you are a punk. Go soak your head
February 7th, 2009 at 8:31 amHere in Indiana, my Obama hat and shirts caused outrage throughout the whole election. After that, my ‘Worst President Ever” t-shirt featuring ‘W’ caused a fervor. But oh my god, my new Faux News t-shirt has them crapping their pants.
February 7th, 2009 at 9:05 amSeems like slamming Faux News actually instills a violent reaction with the 20%’s. I think I’m going to get a couple more. I am not promoting this site or anything, they just had the most variety I could find, I am sure there are others.
http://shop.cafepress.com/faux-news
So much for the Republican Party in exile. We’re back and we intend to stay. If it wasn’t for the Republicans all those Liberal media shows would have nothing to report at night. That’s the only reason they are putting so many Republicans on their shows.
They listen for 15 seconds to a Republican and then go off and cry about how wrong they are for half an hour.
What’s wrong with you Socialists, can’t take a dose of your own medicine? It’s a Liberal tactic that you idiots used for 4 years to get your Messiah elected. Well he doesn’t rule the roost even if he is President. LMAO.
You guys go listen to more Socialist nonsense from Media Matters and Move on Dot Org and then go fall in line and march in lockstep. I know it makes you feel better.
We’re in the minority but we’re controlling things for the Majority and it’s eating you morons alive. You Liberals have enough votes to pass this idiotic bill of Nancy Pelosi’s, why do you need the Republicans? I’ll tell you why. You want to blame the Republicans when it don’t work. Sorry we may not win the battle but it’s going to be a long war and every day the people of this country see this Pork Spending Bill for what it is and they don’t like it.
They also don’t like the Democrat tactic of shutting the Republicans out of the process. I know that when they are asked to pay for it they will reconsider what party they belong to. Nothing like being hit in the pocketbook. Someone has to pay for this monstrosity. The Republicans will simply be on TV again and tell the people that they tried to reduce the bill and cut the Pork. That will be what the people see.
Yes We’re back. Deal with it.
Hey Rachel! We’re Back. Hey Keith, your an idiot. LMAO
February 7th, 2009 at 9:35 amYou forgot a few numbers.
1 million dead civilians in Iraq
5 million orphans and widows in Iraq
7 million Iraqi refugees in Iraq, Syria and Jordan
4600 dead American soldiers in Iraq
75,000 severely wounded American soldiers in Iraq
All of these numbers= Neoconservativism
February 7th, 2009 at 9:45 amprofessorj ……
February 7th, 2009 at 10:01 amYeah, we won. Keep running with Palin and Rush, we’ll win again and we’ll win more. Now go crawl under your mom’s bed, Cheney says the bad guys are coming.
I thought we were told all the professors were left leaning? Is this another one of those myths like the liberal media and the welfare queens?
February 7th, 2009 at 10:23 amA professor that keyboards LMAO? I suppose when class is over they write G2G on the board. I am thinking we might need to see the old curriculum vitae on the prof…
February 7th, 2009 at 10:29 amAnother right winger who can’t live in reality. Please don’t drag us into your reality again, it nearly ruined us the last time……
If you’re running things then why is bush being publicly humiliated for his tenure? If you’re running things then why did the stimulus pass the house while your people sat on thier hands while dems saved the country again?
If you’re running things then why is it also going to pass the senate? Could it be that you are wrong, again?
Most likely outcome is that you will lose even what little power you have in the next election and will become once again the near permanent minority obstructionist party.
Enjoy it, you earned it.
February 7th, 2009 at 10:32 amIt looks like antisemitism is back into the left wing agenda:
http://www.buffalonews.com/nationalworld/international/story/572159.html
I guess lil’ bill o’riley was right.
February 7th, 2009 at 10:57 amWho is lil’ bill o’riley and why does his name not follow the normal pattern of capitalization?
February 7th, 2009 at 11:00 amhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9agKJUqq44
because he isnt a real person
February 7th, 2009 at 11:08 amWell if he isn’t real why worry about whether or not he is right or wrong?
February 7th, 2009 at 11:10 amBecause reality hasn’t been so good for right-wing Republicans lately. Like in most things, they prefer fake political pundits.
February 7th, 2009 at 11:16 amDid you know that Iraq has national health care? No, of course you didn’t.
February 7th, 2009 at 11:18 amshoeless Says:
Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
1 trillion into Iraq = Democracy
1 trillion into U.S. government expansions = Socialism
At least they voted for Democracy
You forgot a few numbers.
1 million dead civilians in Iraq
5 million orphans and widows in Iraq
7 million Iraqi refugees in Iraq, Syria and Jordan
4600 dead American soldiers in Iraq
75,000 severely wounded American soldiers in Iraq
All of these numbers= Neoconservativism
You’ve been reading all that Liberal Propaganda again. None of your figures are correct. Educate yourself and then you might post something here that isn’t a Far Left Liberal talking point. Or…. you can keep following your kook fringe friends and spread their nonsense. You show that your a follower not a leader and your not an independent thinker no matter how many times you tell yourself that you are. Your skewed figures above prove that.
Come out of the dark. The sun is shining in the real world.
It must be dark inside a closed mind.
The Constitution guarantees a “Republican Form Of Government” and we will regain this country from you Socialists. You think you won the war but you just won a battle.
We’re not going anywhere. You control the Presidency, the Congress and we are in the minority but you can’t live without bringing in Republicans. You don’t need our vote. Go on and pass the Pork bill on your own. Your all a bunch of hypocrites. Blame Bush for everything. It gets old after a while and the people of this country see that. Now it’s time to Blame Obie the Messiah for everything.
He’s proven that behind all those eloquent speeches he is just another Liberal Democrap. Nothing Special except maybe his color.
February 7th, 2009 at 11:24 amJeffrey Hulsebos Says:
It looks like antisemitism is back into the left wing agenda:
http://www.buffalonews.com/ nationalworld/ international/ story/ 572159.html
I guess lil’ bill o’riley was right.
Jeff. The KKK was founded by the Democrat party. Ask a Liberal to dispute that fact.
February 7th, 2009 at 11:27 amFred Says:
professorj Says:
Yes We’re back. Deal with it.
Another right winger who can’t live in reality. Please don’t drag us into your reality again, it nearly ruined us the last time……
If you’re running things then why is bush being publicly humiliated for his tenure? If you’re running things then why did the stimulus pass the house while your people sat on thier hands while dems saved the country again?
If you’re running things then why is it also going to pass the senate? Could it be that you are wrong, again?
Most likely outcome is that you will lose even what little power you have in the next election and will become once again the near permanent minority obstructionist party.
Enjoy it, you earned it.
I didn’t say we were running things but then you people can’t really read very well. You have the power. You don’t need us yet your crying and whining. Take your best shot.
None of us ever thought we were going to stop this Pork Spending bill. We did bring it to the attention of the people in this country though. Mission accomplished.
You just go on and do it on your own. Liberals are Liberals.
March in lockstep. When this fails and the people start to complain about your bill and spending, you can always blame it on George Bush. What? George isn’t around any more. That’s OK the Liberals say you can Blame Bush for everything for the next 20 years. That should be comforting to you all. It won’t solve anything and it will run thin after a while but it will make you idiots feel better.
Go watch Rachel and Keith on MSNBC and join in with all those Anti Republican Bigots (social communists). It makes you feel better I know.
It must be dark inside a closed mind. Here’s a light bulb. What, the liberals closed down all the coal fired power plants. Hey there are always candles.
February 7th, 2009 at 11:41 amIf you call this health care count me out:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/164496
http://www.centcom.mil/en/news/troops-provide-medical-care-to-iraqis.html
At just to let you know:
This country spends 42 % of its budget on social security and health care, while its spends less than 1% on its veterans.
February 7th, 2009 at 11:41 amGo get ‘em Jeff. Liberals can’t read very well. All emotion you know. No knowledge but plenty of emotion.
February 7th, 2009 at 11:42 amshoeless Says:
Because reality hasn’t been so good for right-wing Republicans lately. Like in most things, they prefer fake political pundits.
Liberals prefer fake information and character assassination.
Hey haven’t your Liberal Socialist friends given you any shoes yet? Maybe in this Pork bill there are some shoes, there’s everything else.
February 7th, 2009 at 11:47 amOh professor, I’ve been disputing the fact that the Nazi’s were extremely left wing with a liberal buddy for the last two weeks. Somehow he doesn’t think that government control of industry, talking about the plight of the worker, fought for the nationalization of education and health care, vigorously supported gun control, fought for the right for abortions, encouraged pornography was left wing. It kind of sounds like the Obama Platform. Further more he denies that eugenics was an American progressive idea. He has just to accept the fact that the last eugenics law in the book was written by Swedish Social Democrats. Its like talking to a brick wall.
February 7th, 2009 at 11:54 amWhoa trolls, you’re spoutin a lot of lies here after everyone has left the thread……make you feel “viable”
Here’s a little reality for you to suck on this morning:
I’m sure you agree, right?
February 7th, 2009 at 12:29 pmHa, Now we know you are a moonbat, right wing looney who must have never have even finished high school. What a maroon.
February 7th, 2009 at 12:31 pmWell my M.S. from Georgetown University says otherwise.
“We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions”
February 7th, 2009 at 12:43 pm-Workers are awoken, A.H.
You can be anyone you want on the blogosphere. To me you’re just an egotistical dickhead.
How about that success in Iraq that includes free national health care for Iraqi’s. Doesn’t that bother you?
February 7th, 2009 at 12:54 pmjeffy, it’s easy to make claims you can’t back up. You guys do it all the time….
That’s the beauty of the internets and exactly why you fear it. It levels the playing field.
February 7th, 2009 at 1:10 pmOh yeah, I can back it up….
http://www.norwich.edu/academics/mathScience/chemistryBiochemistry/successfulAlumni/hulsebos06.html
February 7th, 2009 at 1:24 pmfree national health care in Iraq doesn’t even pale in comparison to Medicaid/Medicare. It was probably the only thing good that came out of the JFK/LBJ debacle. Except maybe the puppy Kreuschev gave to Kennedy while he was setting up ICBMs in Cuba.
February 7th, 2009 at 1:30 pmJust the fact that you think I am that stupid tells me that you are not this person…….why are you posting a link to my information?
I am Jeffrey Hulsebos!!!!!
February 7th, 2009 at 1:30 pmHuh?
February 7th, 2009 at 1:31 pmWell at least Vice President gaff machine thinks its time to better our relations with a country that thinks that Stalin was their third greatest leader of all time.
February 7th, 2009 at 1:33 pmquoting elbruce:
What?!? I thought they Voted For Democracy! Now you’re telling me that Iraq is a socialist dictatorship nanny state that tells people when they can brush their teeth?
how can you be ok with that? It smacks of failure.
February 7th, 2009 at 1:33 pmThe Iraqi government probably spends 1 billion dollars a year on “National” Health care, which might just be enough to immunize the population against polio.
February 7th, 2009 at 1:34 pmJeffy, your claims mean nothing. You could be anyone. I could post a link to anyones bio and claim it’s mine. Why does that simple reality escape you oh educated one?
Did you see the thread where the free market policies of your kind are actually pushing us into a depression?
These are some of the reasons why bush and the gop are so unpopular. The gop has been dragging down congressional approval ratings for long enough, they will inevitably rise now that the herd of losers has been reduced and replaced by democrats.
February 7th, 2009 at 1:37 pmWe call that moving the goalposts. How do you feel about all the lives lost and money spent to creat a communist haven in Iraq?
February 7th, 2009 at 1:38 pmHere oh wise one, read it and weep:
Iraq has 100% free national health care
February 7th, 2009 at 1:43 pmWow. Jeffrey is still at it?
One would have thought that his medical studies would take most of his time.
Maybe the sciences are where he should be, after all. His bedside manner is for shit, but at least he doesn’t need to understand human nature.
He will have to be able to successfully analyze data and reach a valid conclusion, though. That worries me. It doesn’t seem to be Jeffrey’s strong suit.
February 7th, 2009 at 1:52 pmY’know, Fred, after looking at Jeffrey’s rather ham-handed use of language, I’m beginning to suspect that he may not have an advanced degree, after all.
Your thoughts?
February 7th, 2009 at 1:56 pmRalph, I’ve already called him a fraud. His revision of history to try to make hitler into a commie was the first clue.
Then he tried to prove who he was……the fact that he doesn’t follow the logic that anyone could claim to be the person in the bio he linked tells me that if he has a degree it is a bs in bs.
concur?
February 7th, 2009 at 2:01 pmConcur.
February 7th, 2009 at 2:02 pmFrom your source I collected that in Iraq:
In 2007 the budget was $1.5 billion for Health Care.
Yeah thats what I told you. As opposed to the United States Medicaid/Medicare package which is 21% of the Federal Budget. The amount spent on one medicaid benificary is 11,000 dollars/year.
http://www.kaiserfamilyfoundation.org/medicare/upload/7305.pdf
The amount spent on the Iraqi government spent per capita on Iraqi’s 25+ million citizens is $60. So if you can call that Universal Health Care then I will accept that in the U.S. all day long.
February 7th, 2009 at 2:06 pmRe. Jeffery Hulsebos:
To put it bluntly, Jeffrey Hulsebos is NOT an officer in the United States Navy, nor is he in medical school. That should be obvious to all here. Sorry Jeffery, it just doesn’t wash.
Re. professorj
I don’t think professorj claimed to be a professor, and quite obviously he’s not. But, he’s right about one thing, though he didn’t but it quite in these terms: the Senate repugs steamrollered the dems and destroyed the Senate version of the stimilus bill. However, as many of you know, $350 billion in tax cuts out of $780 billion will only give impetus to a deflationary spiral. (BTW, do any of you know of a corporation that has actually actually paid taxes at the marginal tax rate?) I suppose regressives will be regressives, it’s their default position. What else would you expect from a one trick pony?
Now let’s look at the bright side. President Obama is anything but stupid. He extended the hand of civility and good will to republicans and in return was severely bitten. Will he make that mistake again? I think not.
The issue now at hand is how to proceed. I think the fastest way forward is for the Democrats to grow some testicles (especially Harry Reid – a man who couldn’t motivate me to have a bowel movement if I was suffering from dysentery) and simply make the republicans actually filibuster.
Senate Majority Leader, Harry Reid, can then refuse to take up any further Senate business until a cloture vote is successful. Repugs would have to stand and speak indefinitely.
With the President on television daily talking to the American people, where do you think their wrath would fall? And, do you think the American people would be listening to the repug’s raving endlessly on CSPAN, or to the President on the evening news? As an added bonus, some of those dottering old repugs might just collapse at the podium.
Another option is for the dems to change to cloture rule. In 2008 the repugs set a record for the number of filibusters used to obstruct legislation. Triple the number of filibusters they initiated in 2007, which was itself a record. The dems can have a go at changing the cloture rule so that it only takes a simple majority vote to end a fillibuster.
Seems to me it’s all or nothing at this point. So, lets pull out the stops and go for it. Half measures will likely bring failure. If dem solutions to our economic problem don’t work, at least we will have flushed ourselves down the drain. I’d hate to be hearing that if only we hadn’t let the repugs have their way we could have been successful.
Tell your Senators to ignore the repugs (as the House did). Don’t listen to them and don’t debate them. Just roll over the repugs and get something done. NOW!
February 7th, 2009 at 2:08 pmIf we put everyone into Medicaid we would still have $2100 per citizen.
February 7th, 2009 at 2:10 pmmoving the goalposts again jef, my point was that we have created a commie nanny state in Iraq, not a true democracy as you define it……thus a failure.
can you follow a train of though long enough to address that?
February 7th, 2009 at 2:11 pm45ACP Says:
We are all impatient and nervous about where the gop has led us. Democracy is messy and moves slow. there are however, many good signs of change and we now have a chance to save ourselves…..something we have been denied for too long.
February 7th, 2009 at 2:15 pmYes a commie nanny state. Are you f-ing kidding me. Do you not understand that $60 dollars doesn’t provide health care. $60 bought me half of a visit to a doctor and prescribed medications when I got ETEC in Peru, not preforming trauma surgery on kids because some terrorist decided that he wanted to spend eternity with some World of Warcraft players in Heaven. Your idea that their government provides “Universal” Health care is a joke, a socialist propaganda stunt playing with your emotions of why we don’t have UHC here.
February 7th, 2009 at 2:17 pmJeffery, did you learn you quaint use of the language when studying for your advanced degree? Or perhaps when becoming a United States Naval Officer.
Yes, llama had you down cold. Well done, llama.
February 7th, 2009 at 2:23 pmMy guess is no.
I’ve found that if you want to get Jeffrey to respond to a direct question, you have to simplify, simplify, simplify, and then simplify some more.
And then you have to be satisfied with a half-answer at best, because that seems to be all he’s capable of.
But I support the effort.
February 7th, 2009 at 2:26 pmThank you, 45ACP. And I found your post at 2:08 eloquent, complete and well-structured. You pretty much nailed it there.
February 7th, 2009 at 2:28 pmGee Jeffrey, do you think that the huge cost of health care might have anything to do with insurance companies? Maybe just a little
February 7th, 2009 at 2:29 pmExcuse me? You mean that every Iraqi is a terrorist? Is that what you want to go with at this point? Because the big battles in Iraq were with Iraqi’s. We called them insurgants which is a nice way of saying local people fighting an invading army.
You seem to be having trouble concentrating.
February 7th, 2009 at 2:33 pmThat issue has plagued Jeffrey since he logged on. Maybe he’s distracted by studying for his MCATs.
February 7th, 2009 at 2:36 pmKinda funny when you think about it, me, a retired welder with a high school education taking on jeff with his advanced degrees and winning. Thanks to Ralph and 45ACP for truly intelligent contributions to the discussion.
jeff, I’m sorry to say that I can’t complement your ability to put forth a clear thought and follow through with it to the point that I can understand it.
February 7th, 2009 at 2:36 pmOr maybe its the trial lawyers that have cost the premiums of malpractice insurance to sky rocket to over 200,000 per year.
February 7th, 2009 at 2:36 pmBut that only happens in States like Illinois
February 7th, 2009 at 2:41 pmFred, believe me, you handle more than your share of the burden of educating our friend Jeffrey.
February 7th, 2009 at 2:41 pmFred, Jeffrey seems to have trouble grasping many things. Don’t be too hard on him. Advanced degrees and Naval officer training apparently aren’t quite what they used to be.
February 7th, 2009 at 2:42 pmJeffrey, please stop babbling and try to get your thoughts together for a coherent point once in a while.
February 7th, 2009 at 2:42 pmcop out alert:
The Medical Malpractice Myth
http://www.slate.com/id/2145400/
harvard study:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/2006-releases/press05102006.html
The researchers analyzed past malpractice claims to judge the volume of meritless lawsuits and determine their outcomes. Their findings suggest that portraits of a malpractice system riddled with frivolous lawsuits are overblown.
you might as well go study for your ged jeffie…..you can’t win, you chose the losing side. It always happens to righties, eventually.
February 7th, 2009 at 2:51 pmFred and Ralph, please don’t be so harsh with Jeffrey. You know how delicate a minor’s ego can be. In addition, Jeffrey may have a point about trial lawyers. Where do they find the gall to stand up for people who have had their lives ruined by incompetent medical practitioners. Oops, my bad. I may have just described Jeffrey medical expertise. Sorry.
February 7th, 2009 at 2:53 pm“Overall, the malpractice system appears to be getting it right about three quarters of the time”
-harvard study
I wish the standards were set that high in the medical profession. Then I could go tell 4 people that have HIV that one of them doesn’t have it. Great study.
February 7th, 2009 at 2:57 pmJeffrey Hulsebos Says:
I wish the standards were set that high in the medical profession. Then I could go tell 4 people that have HIV that one of them doesn’t have it. Great study.
You didn’t even read the Slate article, much less the study. Who are you trying to kid?
Great to know that you support the federal government’s funding of an all-electronic medical information system, though.
February 7th, 2009 at 3:05 pmNot to mention even when they get it right, the malpractice insurance is still paying out big bucks for a lawyer and a doctor and to specialists to speak during the hearing, to waste their time in a courtroom when the find the doctor non-liable.
February 7th, 2009 at 3:06 pmHaha Slate, I still remember when they wrote the article about how breast-feeding does nothing for an infant. Maybe they should have learning about IgG before the counseled women on how to keep their babies healthy.
February 7th, 2009 at 3:10 pmOr rather IgA, IgG gets transfer trans-placentaly.
February 7th, 2009 at 3:11 pmwow, jeffy pulls the “quote out of context” gambit. Here is the paragraph so others can witness how you grossly misrepresented what was said:
February 7th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
Fred, I dropped out of high school to join the Army in 1957. I stayed in for six years (Airborn Ranger) to fight and kill communists. I finally figured out that the REAL enemy was right here in the United States (slow learner), so I left the military.
I’m a retired, self-taught semiconductor crystal growing engineer. It took me almost ten years to get my formal degree the hard way…evenings and weekends.
Fred:
Having designed and built semiconductor equipment, primarily silicon crystal growing machines, I have a great appreciation for welders like yourself. It’s both art and science. One learn to appreciate that when one is standing in front of a pressure vessel operating internally at 1800 degrees C.
So, if you and I can understand what is really going on (and learn from mistakes), perhaps there’s hope for people like Jeffrey. I suspect the odds for him are long, but not zero.
At any rate, when Jeffrey graduates from veterinary school, he may take a different view of suffering animals.
February 7th, 2009 at 3:18 pmFred, Jeffrey deserves to be called out on that, no doubt. But, really, what else has he got?
February 7th, 2009 at 3:18 pmDr. Carroll looked at the two decades of malpractice claims data and found that 68% of malpractice cases against pediatricians were withdrawn or dismissed. Only 5% of malpractice suits against pediatricians went to trial, and of these 4 out of 5 were found in favor of the pediatrician.
http://www.medicine.indiana.edu/news_releases/viewRelease.php4?art=717&print=true
Let me brake it down those 27% that didn’t go to trial were settled out of the court room because the insurance company found that the settlement would be less then defense in the court room. Then 80% were found to be in favor of the physician ie. a waste of time/money for the doctor and a gain of money for lawyers and specialists.
February 7th, 2009 at 3:23 pmFred, to add to what 45ACP just said, have you ever read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance?
Robert Pirsig talks a little bit about welding and the combination of precision, craft and artistry it represents.
I’ve done a very little bit of welding in my earlier career, and it was always a very heady feeling, a sense of control over materials and the ability to create durable, utilitarian objects. I’ve had a lot of respect for welders ever since.
February 7th, 2009 at 3:26 pmI am a 58 year old retired building and trades union pipefitter/welder. I have worked on nukes and in the clean rooms in the chip growing facilities from Cali to butte montana to vermont, etc. It was a well respected trade for many years.
Engineers were often very involved in our jobs. Respect was always mutual.
I still do some cad work to supplement our income.
I raised 3 kids doing an honest job for fair wages until raygun…..downhill from there but we survived and all 3 of my kids are in college or grad school now….youngest is a senior in electrical engineering(computers) I am so proud of them.
Your struggle is similar to mine and to many millions of Americans. Congratulations to us all for being forward looking.
Jeffie lives in a place far away from ours in idology and it’s not a good place for humans to thrive….
Peace to all, I’m going paintballing with youngest son and his pals……
February 7th, 2009 at 3:32 pmWhat rank did you get out with 45ACP? Just to clarify your expert view of the world. Not knocking the E-dogs, my uncle finished at Master Gunnery Sgt and my other uncle was CWO.
February 7th, 2009 at 3:32 pmIts not good to thrive at the top, because you always have other monkeys throwing shit at you.
February 7th, 2009 at 3:36 pmI think I’m pretty much done reading Jeffery since his fact-free and rather convoluted comments are either reproduced or summarized by responders.
I’d like to see some discussion of where America goes from here. How do we overcome the interminable obstruction of the repugs and get the country moving again? I don’t think the fix will come from consumer spending because consumers are deep in debt, the home equity piggy bank is broken, and jobs are disappearing at an alarming rate. Add to that the fact that corporate America seems to think it’s beneficial to drive wages into the dirt. Even Henry Ford understood that workers couldn’t buy his cars if they didn’t have any money. Not exactly rocket science or solid-state physics, but a concept some find difficult to grasp.
There are some pretty bright people posting here and I hope you will address yourselves to discussing possible solutions to the problem. I can learn a lot from you.
February 7th, 2009 at 3:36 pmWell guys, I’m going outside to enjoy the global warming. All the snow melted at Great Lakes Naval Station.
February 7th, 2009 at 3:37 pmI see Jeffrey is determined to persist in babbling.
Perhaps it’s all he’s really good at.
February 7th, 2009 at 3:38 pmOh and Hulse, that’s in the state of Illinois. WTF are you talking about.
February 7th, 2009 at 3:39 pmHave you ever been a victim of malpractice and tried to hire a malpractice attorney. I have two family members who are successful malpractice attorneys and have three family members, two deceased, who were victims of gross incompetence by the doctors and my family would not take the case. Because, it costs about $40k to successfully prosecute just such a case. And if there isn’t 100% chance that the patient would have been perfect if the doctor had done everything perfectly the lawyers don’t take the case. That is if the patient had cancer with only a 50/50 survival rate and the doctor failed to diagnose even with clear evidence an attorney won’t bother.
But keep listening to Limbaugh and O’Reilly. It makes you sound like a real genious Hubabubba.
February 7th, 2009 at 3:39 pmOh and Einstein, just because some are found not liable doesn’t mean they didn’t make mistakes. Perhaps you’d rather not prosecute criminals since so many of them are found not guilty. And you call yourself a scientist. Pathetic.
February 7th, 2009 at 3:43 pmOK Jeff, I’ll bite. What city are you in?
February 7th, 2009 at 3:43 pmHaven’t read it Ralph but will get the isbn from the link and check it out at the library……looks like a good winter evening read….
Welding is a hands on manual labor job but it does require good eyes, a steady hand and a drive to make each one better than the last.
There is a sense of power/control that comes from having a puddle of steel or alloy that is heated to the point that it becomes molten(1400+ degrees) and then to have learned how to make it do what you want it to do it very satisfying, a job well done…..
In my life now though, I have a great respect for those with crisp, clear minds. People that can not only follow a train of thought but are aware of nuance not obvious at first and a desire for a better life for all of us.
February 7th, 2009 at 3:44 pmThat’s a good discussion to have, 45ACP, and I also am with you on the whole Jeffrey thing at this point.
I agree that consumer spending is tapped out as an engine for recovery. It was the horse we rode to stay one step ahead of this recession all through Bush’s second term, and it was pushed to the breaking point, fueled by credit card debt and illusory “wealth” created by inflated home prices.
We don’t have any significant export products to lean on and manufacturing has been decimated. As Thom Hartman points out, we’re now a nation that exports raw materials and imports finished products, which is a textbook definition of a third-world nation.
Government spending is the one tool left in the tool box, and tax cuts won’t do any more than they’ve done the past eight years. they’ll just make rich people richer, starve the government of resources and won’t create jobs or pay wages.
February 7th, 2009 at 3:46 pmShayne, your comment on malpractice brought out my dark side. If a member of my family was harmed by that sort of thing, I would be sorely tempted to resolve the issue via superior marksmanship.
February 7th, 2009 at 3:47 pmGit him Shayne, I was going to point out the matter of settling doesn’t mean guilt but I see you took care of it.
We had mostly started ignoring jeff because he doesn’t seem to add much to the discussion.
45ACP is looking for a discussion with thoughtful people but I really have to run….
February 7th, 2009 at 3:51 pmThat’s the trick, isn’t it Fred? To make that puddle do what you want it to do. Anyone can melt steel if they have a fire hot enough. But to use that flame and that heat to turn raw steel into a tool or a machine part or a sculpture is really cool to witness.
February 7th, 2009 at 3:55 pm45ACP, your approach is way more expedient. What the dittoheads don’t ever understand is that most malpractice is never even charged against the perpetrators. Half the doctors graduated in the bottom of their class after all.
The other interesting note is that all the people I know who have filed frivolous personal injury suits or a collecting bogus disability from Social Security are Republicans.
I hate those people.
February 7th, 2009 at 4:03 pm535 Ralph, that’s a terrific point, especially the part about how we are now defined as a 3rd world nation because we export raw product and import finished products….
I’ll be coming back and read what you guys say later……
February 7th, 2009 at 4:04 pmFred, did you contract weld for REC or ASiMI (one and the same since REC bought out ASiMI) in Butte? They manufacture polysilicon rods in huge, double-walled pressure rated vessels. I was a CZ engineer for ASiMI in Washington state. Small world, especially the silicon materials business.
I read Zen And The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance in the early seventies. I think you’ll find it’s a good read.
I raised two children while working and going to night school. Both graduated college and are living decent productive lives. They’re a true blessing.
You write well, as does Ralph. A skill that is not something that comes easily to me.
February 7th, 2009 at 4:06 pmThe reason Jeffery can go on and on is that Jeffery is Bill Kristol. He has the entire staff of the Weakly Stanturd helping him to pump out fascist Republican propaganda.
February 7th, 2009 at 4:18 pmShayne, I have all the skills but I’m a little long in the tooth, and hopefully wouldn’t give in to the desire to resolve the issue that way. Still…..
I don’t hate all rethugs, just neocons and regressives (well, I suppose neocon and regressive in the same sentence is redundant). I think that a good regressive is a …….! Bad dog, 45ACP, bad dog.
I’ll pick up on you guys later. I’m going to the range in a few minutes with some friends. No, really…not joking. We go once a week (all ex-Rangers) to tell lies and see how badly our skills have degraded.
See you later.
February 7th, 2009 at 4:20 pmShoeless:
The Weekly Stanturd! First time I’ve heard that one. Very accurate. Thanks for the chuckle.
February 7th, 2009 at 4:24 pm45ACP, don’t sell yourself short. You write very well. I’ve appreciated your posts here.
I think the key to eloquence, or even just good, efficient use of language, is clear thinking. That’s why Obama is so good a writer and speaker — he thinks very clearly.
Conversely, it’s also why his predecessor was such a disastrous speaker. Muddled thought leads to muddled expression.
February 7th, 2009 at 4:32 pmShayne Says:
45ACP, your approach is way more expedient. What the dittoheads don’t ever understand is that most malpractice is never even charged against the perpetrators. Half the doctors graduated in the bottom of their class after all.
The other interesting note is that all the people I know who have filed frivolous personal injury suits or a collecting bogus disability from Social Security are Republicans.
I hate those people.
All those people are Republicans???????
You hate those people? Nice. I would like to see your documentation on those bogus Social Security Claims being Republicans or are you just mouthing off?
Just mouthing off would be my guess.
Why is it that there are no happy Liberals? You won. For now, but we Republicans aren’t going anywhere. We live in this country too. Get over it. What goes around comes around.
February 7th, 2009 at 4:56 pmI don’t think professorj claimed to be a professor, and quite obviously he’s not.
Folks I have taught in the Liberal Public School system and also in a well known university. Liberals tried this very tactic in my classes. I graded on facts not hype and accepted arguments from both sides as long as they were backed up with a logical point of view and were factual.
I have heard all the excuses and all the nonsense over the past 20 years. I never accepted an emotional argument which many Liberals tried to sneak by me.
Liberal arguments are usually based on skewed facts or emotion.
Like I said, I rarely meet a happy Liberal as is quite evident here and on most blogs.
Sorry that your Messiah isn’t doing very well with this economic crisis but he did say during the campaign that he has no experience in economics. Didn’t you Obie worshipers here that part or were you all standing around chanting,
Obama Obama Obama Obama.
Electing a President based on emotion and race is never a good thing. Maybe he will do better in the future, who knows, but right now he thinks he’s still on the campaign trail. I seem to remember another President who couldn’t lead very well (gave good speeches) but had to rely on the people around him to tell him what to do next.
I’ll leave it up to you highly educated Liberals to figure out who I’m talking about. No it wasn’t GW.
February 7th, 2009 at 5:18 pmWhat I said professor is the people I KNOW that abuse the system are Republicans. Easily confused aren’t you.
I didn’t read all of your drivel but most of us aren’t religious enough to believe that even Christ was a messiah and yet you think we believe Obama is.
Your type elected a guy because he was stupid enough for you to want to have a beer with him then you say we elected somebody who is a scholar based on emotion and race.
Do you have any idea how ridiculous you are?
February 7th, 2009 at 5:33 pmOh and your candidate said the economy was as strong as ever, remember?
February 7th, 2009 at 5:35 pmVoice from the past Says:
professorj says:
I’ll leave it up to you highly educated Liberals to figure out who I’m talking about. No it wasn’t GW.
Ronald Reagan?
February 7th, 2009 at 5:52 pmYou wish. Not an unexpected reply though.
professorj says he rarely meets a happy liberal.
Let me say that I seldom meet a conservative who’s not angry and resentful.
February 7th, 2009 at 5:52 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
professorj says he rarely meets a happy liberal.
Let me say that I seldom meet a conservative who’s not angry and resentful.
You met one here. I’m not resentful nor angry. I live in the real world and understand what’s happening. You see, I’ve been around a while and have seen it all before.
February 7th, 2009 at 5:55 pmShayne Says:
Oh and your candidate said the economy was as strong as ever, remember?
I would agree with you on that but for one thing, that’s not quite what he said Shane. Obviously you weren’t paying attention. I’d tell you his exact quote but then you wouldn’t get the opportunity to research it for yourself.
Shane, you do want to research it for your self don’t you?
February 7th, 2009 at 6:00 pmSo professorj:
February 7th, 2009 at 6:01 pmWhat courses are you teaching this semester. I hear all the profs are leftists. I look forward to registering for “the world according to professorj”. How many credits is that one worth. I don’t need them but as I have plenty already but still as the tuition will no doubt be per credit out of state, I was just wondering. From what I can figure from your posts, this will be an entry level 100’s course…
Is Obama even black? He looks more grey with filthy cigarette stained lips, no wonder why he wants me to pay for his emphysema health care.
I thought he was a 1 generation descendant of a family that owned slaves and a family that sold slaves. Maybe thats why the KKK stopped their rhetoric against him.
February 7th, 2009 at 6:07 pmSorry, “professor” but you sound full of resentment to me, based on what you’ve typed here.
Calling the President “your Messiah” sounds derisive and not very happy.
Staements like “Liberals prefer fake information and character assassination” and “Liberals can’t read very well. All emotion you know. No knowledge but plenty of emotion” strike me as textbook examples of projection, and your repeated claim that “Liberals march in lock step” is so out of touch with the character of the liberal movement in this nation that it calls into serious question your ability to analyze the world around you.
Every serious observer of national politics acknowledges that one of the strengths of the Republican Party and the conservative movement has been message and party discipline. Likewise, one of the weaknesses of the Left has been exactly its diversity of opinion, viewpoint and priorities.
So perhaps I’m reading too much neurosis into what you’ve shown us here today, but you don’t really sound like the happiest, most together camper. In my experience, those who primarily seek to tear down others do it for reasons that they’re not even aware of.
February 7th, 2009 at 6:15 pmDoes it matter?
February 7th, 2009 at 6:17 pmdbadass Says:
So professorj:
What courses are you teaching this semester. I hear all the profs are leftists. I look forward to registering for “the world according to professorj”. How many credits is that one worth. I don’t need them but as I have plenty already but still as the tuition will no doubt be per credit out of state, I was just wondering. From what I can figure from your posts, this will be an entry level 100’s course…
You couldn’t handle it. It’s an advanced class and it requires rational thought. No emotion or hype. Free thinkers only. As it should be. Your correct on one thing though, most professors are Liberal and enjoy teaching Liberal dogma. Not me.
I understand your sarcasm and your bias response. My classes are booked solid and there’s a waiting list. It has grown in recent years with no let up in sight. Why you may ask? There is a growing movement among students who want the opportunity to get away from Professors who only teach Liberal dogma.
That’s so encouraging don’t you think?
February 7th, 2009 at 6:17 pmCan i ask… what in the comment posted by dbadass led to believe he “couldn’t handle” rational thought?
You seem to have made that judgment rather quickly, and on very few examples of his conversation.
it just seems rather dismissive, even contemptuous from one who professes to have “accepted arguments from both sides as long as they were backed up with a logical point of view and were factual.”
But perhaps I’m wrong about that.
February 7th, 2009 at 6:22 pmI’m just questioning the “Historical” election.
But I suppose things wont get better until we finally elect a President that was an A student in Undergrad. So I guess he is a step up from Bush(c), Obama(b), Patraeus(a). Patraeus 2012
February 7th, 2009 at 6:25 pmJeffrey, are you babbling again?
Did you answer my question?
You wondered whether Obama was “even black”.
I asked you, does it matter?
So, does it?
February 7th, 2009 at 6:32 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
Is Obama even black?
Does it matter?
It really doesn’t matter if he’s Black, Christian or even a Muslim.
The fact that he is black helped him get elected though. If he was white and had no experience he wouldn’t of been considered by the Democrats and Hillary would be president right now.
The votes that got him elected were based on Color and emotion. It couldn’t have been on experience because he has none. It is quite evident now that he has been elected. Even some of his strong liberal media backers are now questioning his abilities. Don’t take my word for it, it’s all over the Liberal media reports and blogs.
His popularity has fallen from a 82% favor rating to a 63% favorable rating. Now 63% is still pretty high. He just needs to stop Congressional strong arms from pushing him around.
It’s not the Republicans that is hurting the “Big O” it’s his own advisers and the Liberal Congress. His vetting process is really lacking.
Do any of you Liberals see this? You want him to succeed? You need to tell him to stand on his own two feet.
February 7th, 2009 at 6:34 pmNow, see, an argument based on logical principles dealing with thsi subject might have taken into account the fact that other African-American politicians have run for the Democratic nomination for President and have gotten nowhere.
If your supposition was correct, and Democrats were prone to voting for someone because he was black, then black candidates should have had greater success before now.
So your conclusion appears based on something other than hard evidence.
February 7th, 2009 at 6:42 pmNo the problem is blacks can’t get elected in the Democrat districts that they live in, until they have a plurality. Its quite simply because other Democrats won’t vote for them. It wasn’t until a grey figure with cigarette stain lips with a fake African-American accent showed up to convince the Democrats that a black man could be president. That and the overwhelming endorsement of a Cola company. If Colin Powell ran for President in 2000 when he used to be a Republican he would have won. He is quoted for saying that it was the white southerner that was his greatest supporter.
February 7th, 2009 at 6:59 pmJeffrey, we went over this last night. Remember?
“Yes/No Questions”.
Yes.
No.
I ask a simple question, you’re supposed to respond with a clear answer.
February 7th, 2009 at 7:00 pmI can re-post that link to wikipedia again if you need me to.
His blackness only matters to the companies making a fortune off of capitalizing him. Maybe his supporters really are capitalists. GO PEPSI
February 7th, 2009 at 7:01 pmJustJohn Says:
professorj ……
Yeah, we won. Keep running with Palin and Rush, we’ll win again and we’ll win more. Now go crawl under your mom’s bed, Cheney says the bad guys are coming.
John your a prime example of a Liberal. No facts just character assassinations. I understand that it’s what people like you do. I’ve heard it all before.
The bad guys are here already John.
So far you Liberals are digging a trillion dollar hole and when the people are asked to pay for it all they will change their minds about who they vote for. It won’t be blamed on the Republicans.
I say go for it. One thing about Cheney though. He’s not VP any more. When the next attack happens, and it will, the Democrats will be the ones responsible. I’ll feel sorry for those who die for sure but Bush and Cheney have gone home.
You Liberals control all the power but with that power comes responsibility.
It’s on YOUR shoulders now or haven’t you thought that far ahead yet. I say “You Liberals go for it”. The people in this country won’t be fooled for long.
I don’t hide from anyone John.
February 7th, 2009 at 7:04 pmprofessor, any responses to my questions?
specifically, what in the comments made by dbadass led you to believe so strongly that he couldn’t handle rational thought?
And about your observation that being black helped Obama get elected — what is the factual evidence on which you based this conclusion?
thanks.
February 7th, 2009 at 7:08 pmNow, see, an argument based on logical principles dealing with thsi subject might have taken into account the fact that other African-American politicians have run for the Democratic nomination for President and have gotten nowhere.
If your supposition was correct, and Democrats were prone to voting for someone because he was black, then black candidates should have had greater success before now.
So your conclusion appears based on something other than hard evidence.
You might think that Ralph but times have changed. Obama had the Liberal media giving him full support every night. Never has that been done before. There has been a 8 year Anti Bush campaign going on. George Soros had his Anti Republican bigots posting all over the internet.
The Democrats had destroyed the economy. I know your going to argue that fact but they had as much to do with it as anyone and I can back that up.
So there have been many changes in this country to favor Obama and a black man winning the election that weren’t around 20 or even 10 years ago.
You want to live in the past. I saw the changes and you didn’t? I think you saw the same things that I did so why did you post this reply other than to force an argument with me?
One more reason he won. It was about 840 million dollars spent on his campaign. Even Hillary with her Saudi Backing couldn’t keep up with that.
So where have I gotten it wrong?
February 7th, 2009 at 7:18 pmOne more thing John. If you know the history of this country then you know that we have had a black president in this country already. Obama’s not the first.
February 7th, 2009 at 7:22 pmJeffrey Hulsebos Says:
An uneducated worker should be willing to swim through raw sewage for that kind of money.
So we should also scrap all workplace safety regulations. Again, why do you hate the American workforce so much?
.
Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
…agree to wage increases when the CEO’s tell them that will mean more layoffs…
They say that every time somebody talks about the minimum wage. And every time the minimum wage has been increased, it has never happened. If you expect us to listen to you, you’re going to have to be right once in a while, first.
.
Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
Loved the New Deal link. A healthy economy should have an unemployment rate of 3-6% FDR never had that. It was always way to much unemployment or way to much Federal employment.
You did note that government employees were counted as unemployed there? I’d consider 6% somewhat high, unless I was a business owner. A more reasonable range is 3-4%.
.
Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
That Firefighter argument is ridiculous, every community sees the value of paying for services to protect life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. Except for the inner-city community, that I have to provide free health care to, while they complain.
OK, what about the American community? And why couldn’t everybody go in on health care?
Also, I’m pointing and laughing at your “inner-city” code phrase usage. We know what you reall mean: “black people don’t contribute to the common good.”
.
Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
Yes they complain that they don’t get served quickly like they would at a McDonalds. “Goddamn, I’ve been sittin here for an hour, damn gotta get me some free health care, maybe I can convince that doctor to give me some Oxycontin so I can go sell it.” Yes its my fault that I get sent to provide free health care for a population that has a higher infant mortality rate than Uruguay. Don’t even try to blame it on poverty.
Non-Hispanic Black American Infant Mortality: 13.7
Hispanic American Infant Mortality: 5.6
Yep, it’s funny how when winguts complain when we point at their racist code usage that we’re generalizing and they didn’t really mean any such thing. But then every single time, they turn out to follow it up with a clearly racist tirade. Like this one.
What should I be blaming it on if not poverty? Skin color?
.
ralph the wonder llama Says:
They WILL be?
You mean, you’re not a doctor at the moment?
Do not take wingnut personal claims at face value. THEY ALWAYS LIE.
Jeffrey is as much of a doctor as I am a table lamp.
.
Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
Any intelligent conversation ends when Rush Limbaugh gets mentioned, the same way it ends when Hilter gets mentioned.
There’s a reason for that, you know…
.
Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
Its basically because the community as a whole has bought into a national socialist lie. Sold to them by a man who put Japanese into internment camps.
FDR was a Nazi? Who knew?
February 7th, 2009 at 7:39 pmHmm… this sounds more like “emotional” than rational argument built on verifiable facts.
The perception that “the Liberal media (was) giving him full support every night” is not really supported by studies such as this one that said:
Obama hasn’t exactly been fawned over by media, but the coverage statistically has been more evenhanded, with 36% of stories clearly positive, 35% neutral or mixed, and 29% negative.
It could be argued that, with all of the gaffes the McCain campaign made, much of the negative press they got was justified. But even so, one cannot credibly claim that the media, “liberal” or not gave Obama anything like “full support every night”. frankly, that claim sounds a bit overheated and unsupportable.
Well then, perhaps you’d better back it up. It will be interesting to see how a party shut completely out of power for six full years could have “wrecked the economy” in less than two years of tenuous control of Congress and a suddenly veto-happy opposition president.
Perhaps. But that still doesn’t demonstrate that he benefitted from being black, which was your claim. there must be some factual basis on which to found that claim, right? Some survey that revealed that people voted for Obama because of his race?
On what basis do you make this judgment?
I posted it to clarify what i saw as a flaw in your reasoning. For one who loudly proclaims his devotion to “rational thought” I found it curious that you made a statement that was, on the surface at least, based more on your own perception than on observable, verifiable fact.
And one who claims that liberals “can’t read” or “argue through emotion” rather than reason should welcome a reasoned argument from a liberal.
And what force allowed him to amass the prodigious amount of campaign funding that he had at his disposal? Are you implying that there was something untoward with Obama’s fund-raising prowess?
I’m still waiting to hear where you’ve gotten it correct. Rationally, verifiably correct.
February 7th, 2009 at 7:42 pmOne more thingprofessorj. Might youadmit yo are not what you advertise?
February 7th, 2009 at 7:43 pmGood luck with that, dbadass. I’m still trying to get him to tell me what it was about your comments that led him to believe that you couldn’t handle rational thought.
February 7th, 2009 at 7:49 pmprofessorj Says:
So much for the Republican Party in exile. We’re back and we intend to stay.
You’re just prolonging it. Hanging on to the dogmatic positions that got you beaten down in the first place is only going to insure more beatdowns. Not that I’m complaining.
But until you actually do have a party “revolution” of some sort and come up with something new, you’re going to be increasingly politically irrelevant. You may not realize it – in fact, it’s specifically because you don’t realize it – but you’re wandering in the wilderness right now.
.
professorj Says:
We’re in the minority but we’re controlling things for the Majority and it’s eating you morons alive.
…later…
I didn’t say we were running things but then you people can’t really read very well.
Will you not have said this either next? Or am I still unable to read your language? Sorry, I’m not fluent in stupid.
.
Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
It looks like antisemitism is back into the left wing agenda:
It’s like this – Israel makes Judaism look bad in much the same way that Iran makes Islam look bad. It’s pretty much a universal problem when any country has a blatantly official religion established by its government.
.
professorj Says:
You’ve been reading all that Liberal Propaganda again. None of your figures are correct. Educate yourself and then you might post something here that isn’t a Far Left Liberal talking point.
All your figures are incorrect – oh wait, you haven’t posted any. Never mind.
How do you know he’s wrong if you don’t know what the accurate numbers are and why? You’ve disproven nothing. If you wish to express disagreement with those numbers, then you’ll want to post more accurate sources and be prepared to defend their accuracy, or you’re basically forfeiting the debate.
.
professorj Says:
The Constitution guarantees a “Republican Form Of Government” and we will regain this country from you Socialists. You think you won the war but you just won a battle.
You literally think that the use of that term in the Constitution means that the Republican party is mandated by it? You’re a funny man!
What about “Democratic Government?” Don’t we get democracy too? I guess not, if the Republican party is legally required to be in power at all times.
.
professorj Says:
Now it’s time to Blame Obie the Messiah for everything.
Why do you people keep calling him the messiah?
.
professorj Says:
The KKK was founded by the Democrat party. Ask a Liberal to dispute that fact.
So how come everybody in the KKK is Republicans now?
The parties switched positions on racism 50 years ago, dude. If you want to be in the non-racist party now, you’ll have to switch sides. And you know what, if they hadn’t switched, I’d go become a Republican.
.
Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
Oh professor, I’ve been disputing the fact that the Nazi’s were extremely left wing with a liberal buddy for the last two weeks.
That’s an insane thing to do. They were right wingers. I mean, it’s not like there weren’t newspapers or books back then reporting their own claims of being right wing.
Here are the Fourteen characteristics of Fascism since you probably won’t be able to follow this claim:
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
4. Supremacy of the Military
5. Rampant Sexism
6. Controlled Mass Media
7. Obsession with National Security
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
9. Corporate Power is Protected
10. Labor Power is Suppressed
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
14. Fraudulent Elections
All that stuff is you, not us. Also: Nazis.
.
Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
Well my M.S. from Georgetown University says otherwise.
You don’t have an M.S. And your cited quote doesn’t support your claim.
Oh yeah, I can back it up….
That person has the same last name as the name you registered with on this board, except his first name is “Hans.” Norwich University is not Georgetown university, nor does it seem to be affiliated with it. And nothing on there says that person has an M.S. Nice try, but I also have the Googles. Does that mean I’m a PhD?
February 7th, 2009 at 8:05 pmwell since I am mobile, I suppose the pretend prof, my friend ralph, and all the rest will have to offer me some flexibility as I hate this laptop”’
February 7th, 2009 at 8:14 pmI’m a desktop man meself, dbadass. I may go laptop sometime, but I understand your frustration.
February 7th, 2009 at 8:16 pmHow is it deniable that being black help Obama.
2008 Black vote 95% Obama, 4% McCain
2004 Black vote 88% Kerry, 10% Bush
Black Turnout 2004 14 million
Black Turnout 2008 20 million
Obama far to the left of Kerry, McCain far to the social left of Bush
February 7th, 2009 at 8:16 pmJeffrey Hulsebos Says:
What rank did you get out with 45ACP? Just to clarify your expert view of the world.
See, this goes to the point we’ve been making about Internet claims of personal experience being used as an argument. It doesn’t matter what 45ACP says he is in real life, or you, or anybody else.
But just in case it does, I have a double PhD in poli sci and econ.
.
professorj Says:
The fact that he is black helped him get elected though. If he was white and had no experience he wouldn’t of been considered by the Democrats and Hillary would be president right now.
By that logic, G.W.Bush didn’t beat John McCain in the 2000 primary.
.
Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
No the problem is blacks can’t get elected in the Democrat districts that they live in, until they have a plurality.
Meet Sanford Bishop, GA-02. For just one example. You really need to take that hood off, it’s making it hard to understand you clearly.
February 7th, 2009 at 8:27 pmI suppose being white never helped no one…
February 7th, 2009 at 8:39 pmI guess ThinkProgess doesn’t like my links.
February 7th, 2009 at 8:43 pmCorrection: You can find these data on the BLS website.
Week of 10-Jan-2009: 952,151
February 7th, 2009 at 8:56 pmWeek of 17-Jan-2009: 763,987
Week of 24-Jan-2009: 620,120
Week of 31-Jan-2009: 676,590
‘Course, silly Jeffrey looks at a single statistic and draws the inference he wants from it.
Does he consider that Obama may have done better with white voters than Kerry did, as well?
Let’s take a look:
2008 White vote 43% Obama, 55% McCain
2004 White vote 41% Kerry, 58% Bush
Given that the white vote was almost six times as large as the black vote in 2008 (77% of the electorate as opposed to 13%), a 2 point gain among white voters sure as hell swamps a 7 point pickup among blacks.
Fact is, Jeffrey, Obama benefitted from being a better candidate.
February 7th, 2009 at 8:57 pmYou could tell whites wouldn’t vote for a black man when Obama lost Iowa Democratic Caucus. The hordes of black Iowa Democratic voters. Right. Rave on, but don’t get your sheet dirty.
February 7th, 2009 at 9:13 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
professorj Says:
You might think that Ralph but times have changed. Obama had the Liberal media giving him full support every night. Never has that been done before. There has been a 8 year Anti Bush campaign going on. George Soros had his Anti Republican bigots posting all over the internet.
Hmm… this sounds more like “emotional” than rational argument built on verifiable facts.
Not emotional at all.
The perception that “the Liberal media (was) giving him full support every night” is not really supported by studies such as this one that said:
Obama hasn’t exactly been fawned over by media, but the coverage statistically has been more evenhanded, with 36% of stories clearly positive, 35% neutral or mixed, and 29% negative.
Obama ran against John McCain and George Bush. The media was totally behind Barack Obama. As a liberal you will never admit to that. Your statement is totally flawed and slanted.
It could be argued that, with all of the gaffes the McCain campaign made, much of the negative press they got was justified. But even so, one cannot credibly claim that the media, “liberal” or not gave Obama anything like “full support every night”. frankly, that claim sounds a bit overheated and unsupportable.
You argue away. None of Obama’s gaffes, and there were many of them, were played up like McCains.
The Democrats had destroyed the economy. I know your going to argue that fact but they had as much to do with it as anyone and I can back that up.
Barney Frank and Chris Dodd were responsible for the downfall of the mortgage industry through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Bush tried to reign them in in 2002, 2003, and again in 2005.
Barney Frank lied through his teeth assisted by Chris Dodd and Maxine waters. Do little research. It would take hours to go through their mishandling of the mortgage industry which led to the problems that started this economic mess we are in. The Democrats are Are knee deep in this mess.
Well then, perhaps you’d better back it up. It will be interesting to see how a party shut completely out of power for six full years could have “wrecked the economy” in less than two years of tenuous control of Congress and a suddenly veto-happy opposition president.
Your party wasn’t shut out. There were many instances where the Republicans crossed the aisle to work with the Democrats. Not like today. Talk about being shut out. Get real you thought process is flawed Ralph.
The economy was fine until 2006. Your memory is bias.
So there have been many changes in this country to favor Obama and a black man winning the election that weren’t around 20 or even 10 years ago.
That’s right on the mark.
Perhaps. But that still doesn’t demonstrate that he benefitted from being black, which was your claim. there must be some factual basis on which to found that claim, right? Some survey that revealed that people voted for Obama because of his race?
I watched the campaign. It was all about race in the primary or did you miss that? It sure wasn’t about experience.
You want to live in the past.
On what basis do you make this judgment?
I direct you to your original post.
I posted it to clarify what i saw as a flaw in your reasoning. For one who loudly proclaims his devotion to “rational thought” I found it curious that you made a statement that was, on the surface at least, based more on your own perception than on observable, verifiable fact.
No flaws in my argument Ralph.
And one who claims that liberals “can’t read” or “argue through emotion” rather than reason should welcome a reasoned argument from a liberal.
I use the Liberal replies on this site to make that point.
One more reason he won. It was about 840 million dollars spent on his campaign. Even Hillary with her Saudi Backing couldn’t keep up with that.
And what force allowed him to amass the prodigious amount of campaign funding that he had at his disposal? Are you implying that there was something untoward with Obama’s fund-raising prowess?
Every one knows where the money came from. No secret there.
So where have I gotten it wrong?
I’m still waiting to hear where you’ve gotten it correct. Rationally, verifiably correct.
It will never be correct for you Ralph. I’m a Republican and your a liberal.
February 7th, 2009 at 9:13 pm45ACP Says:
You could tell whites wouldn’t vote for a black man when Obama lost Iowa Democratic Caucus. The hordes of black Iowa Democratic voters. Right. Rave on, but don’t get your sheet dirty.
That’s supposed to mean something?
February 7th, 2009 at 9:15 pmProfessorj:
Of course it means something, but no one expects you to figure it out. Except for Jeffrey.
February 7th, 2009 at 9:21 pmI believe it’s sarcasm, professor.
February 7th, 2009 at 9:21 pmThat’s supposed to mean something?
Yes it was sarcasm Ralph.
February 7th, 2009 at 9:48 pmprofessorj Says:
Barney Frank and Chris Dodd were responsible for the downfall of the mortgage industry through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Fannie & Freddie did not cause the mortgage and financial industries to melt down. You’re just trying to use them as scapegoats.
The vast majority of the assets that became “toxic” were Credit Default Swaps (CDS’s). Therefore, any analysis of the crash must look at what caused CDS’s to drop so far and so quickly in value. Let’s follow their history:
1. Bundling of mortgages into CDS’s made the risk/value details of the underlying mortgages opaque to buyers. A buyer had no details about the people paying those mortgages, such as income, etc. So basically CDS buyers were holding mortgages without knowing anything that a mortgage holder knows, and were therefore incapable of estimating the risk of the assets purchased.
2. Sellers paid the rating agencies to give CDS’s high ratings, even though they also couldn’t see the risk details of the underlying assets.
3. Many companies bought CDS protection insurance for CDS’s they managed in others’ names. By the way, insuring an asset you don’t own is called “gambling.”
4. Many of those same companies sold CDS protection to others at the same time. Due to the privacy of these insurance deals, no two companies knew whether they were linked to another company or whether it defaulting would tank their assets also.
5. The CDS’s available became valued at thousands of times the value of the underlying mortgage assets. This is because buyers didn’t know the underlying values, and because they felt protected from correction due to the interconnecting insurance deals.
6. When the value of CDS’s corrected, all financial industries took the hit at the same time, because all of them were engaging in practices 1-5. After all, everybody was doing it, and everybody was tying their risk together, so the only way they could lose money is if the entire market crashed at once. What could possibly go wrong?
Another (more general) problem that you wingnuts are overlooking with your “scapegoat” explanation method is that it’s predicated on the notion that your economic and social models are sooo fragile that it only takes one or two bad actors to destroy the entire system. But this is the explanation you’re using to defend the overall system! So, either the problem was systemic, or the system was too fragile, in which case the problem was systemic.
Obviously, what would have prevented this would be appropriate regulation of this entire financial market that was proceeding with total opacity and total disregard for overall consequences. That’s called “regulation.”
February 7th, 2009 at 9:51 pmWell, things are getting really bad. If you want to know the painful details, goto:
2000wave.com/gateway.asp
As for the stimulus, when Paul Krugman says, “this is really, really bad” you know we’re in deep something.
krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/
Bailing out for now ‘cause if I had to read anymore inane drivel I think I’d tear out my eyeballs and eat them.
Good luck
February 7th, 2009 at 10:04 pmYou haven’t demonstrated a logical flaw in my reasoning, simply that my opinion disagrees with yours.
Moreover, I offered credible support for my position. You have not.
Again, you offer your perspective, nothing more. I understand how you feel the way you do, but it does nothing to alter my perception of the facts. And isn’t that the aim of a debate? To convince the other?
This is all thoroughly discredited nonsense.
First of all, Democrats had no control at all over anything in Congress in 2002, 2003 or 2005. Republicans ran the committees, made the rules and wrote the bills.
To try to claim that Frank or Dodd had any meaningful power in those years is absurd. To try to claim that Fannie and Freddie were the cause of the crisis shows either wishful thinking or a badly distorted view of the complex mechanisms of the mortgage market.
It wasn’t a big secret, professor:
Asked whether come January the Republicans will be able to offer amendments to bills — or be shut out, like the Democrats were — Hoyer responded, “There will be opportunities. Whether there will open rules or not, we have not discussed, but certainly there will be opportunities for amendments.
Perhaps you can explain exactly what the Democrats in 2007 to cause the economy to go awry? Because this problem seems a long time building.
Did you know that the national savings rate was negative for 2005 and 2006? Meaning that for those two consecutive years, Americans spent more than they earned. You know the last time that happened?
1932 and 33. And since consumer spending grew to account for 70% of GDP, that seems like it’s a pretty ominous signal. but the president told us to “go shopping” in order to combat the terrorists, so we did.
How about four years ago?
Al Sharpton ran for president in 2004. With your presumed “black boost” he should have actually been a contender. I mean, if Democrats vote for black men because they’re black, Sharpton should have cruised.
Right?
If you watched the campaign, then surely you must be able to produce some objective data that demonstrates that being black was actually a benefit for Obama. Isn’t that what a “rational, logical” argument is built on? Objective data synthesized into demonstrable arguments that prove a proposition?
All you’ve offered so far is your opinion of things you’ve observed. I have no reason to trust either your perception or your analysis of it.
You can direct me to any post you want, but “I direct you to your original post” is hardly a reasonable argument. I know what I typed, and yet I still asked you why you made the judgment that I “wanted to live in the past”.
You don’t seem to have an answer for me. At first glance, it appears to be a crude attempt to discredit my opinion and nothing more substantial than that.
Well, there we disagree. As I’ve said, you have offered primarily — in fact, almost exclusively — your own opinion as a substitute for verifiable fact, and you expect this argument to sway someone. That doesn’t seem very rational to me.
Not really sure what you’re referring to here, or what it has to do with my point.
I’m sorry, but I don’t really see an answer here. Were you implying that there was something underhanded in Obama’s fundraising prowess?
That shouldn’t matter, should it? I mean, as D. P. Moynihan was fond of saying, “everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But not their own facts.”
Facts matter. And facts are not malleable. If you have a strong, compelling argument for your position that Democrats voted for Obama because he was black, something on which you base that judgment besides a low opinion of the intellect of the average Democratic voter, then you should be able to produce some reasonable, objective support behind that position. Otherwise, it’s just your opinion. And you can certainly claim it’s your opinion, but you don’t get to proclaim everybody who sees things differently as stupid or illiterate or “emotional” just because they have a different opinion.
That strikes me as presumptuous.
February 7th, 2009 at 10:06 pmNazi party Platform
All citizens of the State shall be equal as regards rights and duties.
The first duty of every citizen must be to work mentally or physically. The activities of the individual may not clash with the interests of the whole, but must proceed within the frame of the community and be for the general good.
Therefore we demand:
That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.(No Stock Market or Private Intestment)
Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in life and property, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as a crime against the people. We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits whether in assets or material.
We demand the nationalization of businesses which have been organized into cartels.(No Walmarts)
We demand that all the profits from wholesale trade shall be shared out.(To each according to their need)
We demand extensive development of provision for old age.(Social Security)
We demand the creation and maintenance of a healthy middle-class, the immediate communalization of department stores which will be rented cheaply to small businessmen, and that preference shall be given to small businessmen for provision of supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities.(Down with the EVIL CORPORATIONS)
We demand a land reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to confiscate from the owners without compensation any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.(The rich own the land, take it from them)
Hitlers quotes about Christanity:
Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure
The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death…. When understanding of the universe has become widespread… Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity…. Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity…. And that’s why someday its structure will collapse…. …the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little…. Christianity the liar…. We’ll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State.(Funny I thought only Stalin did that)
The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.
Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery…. …. When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let’s be the only people who are immunised against the disease.
Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don’t believe the thing’s possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself…. Pure Christianity– the Christianity of the catacombs– is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics.(a merger of Church and State is impossible?, but I thought that what fascism was…no thats Iranian Theocracy)
It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors– but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch in the next 200 years will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity…. My regret will have been that I couldn’t… behold .”
Hitler and the Arts
http://www.hitler.org/art/
Well heres a quote for the distain of human rights:
“Let us consider the actual, worldly Jew — not the Sabbath Jew, as Bauer does, but the everyday Jew. Let us not look for the secret of the Jew in his religion, but let us look for the secret of his religion in the real Jew. What is the secular basis of Judaism? Practical need, self-interest. What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money. Very well then! Emancipation from huckstering and money, consequently from practical, real Jewry, would be the self-emancipation of our time…. We recognize in Jewry, therefore, a general present-time-oriented anti-social element, an element which through historical development — to which in this harmful respect the Jews have zealously contributed — has been brought to its present high level, at which it must necessarily dissolve itself. In the final analysis, the emancipation of the Jews is the emancipation of mankind from Jewry”
(Except its from your buddy the crusader for worker’s rights Karl Marx, I think it did more to identify a scapegoat)
Hitler on Equality between Man and Woman
“In the Germanic nations there has never been anything else than equality of rights for women. Both sexes have their rights, their tasks, and these tasks were in the case of each equal in dignity and value, and therefore man and woman were on an equality.”
Controlled Mass Media:
Really, Really? I guess China, Korea, Vietnam, Hamas, Iran, etc. They are all fascists?
Fraudulent Elections:
The Nazis gradually devised an electoral strategy to win northern farmers and white collar voters in small towns, which produced a landslide electoral victory in September 1930 (jump from roughly 3% to 18% of the votes cast) due to the depression. Refused a chance to form a cabinet, and unwilling to share in a coalition regime, the Nazis joined the Communists in violence and disorder between 1931 and 1933. In 1932, Hitler ran for President and won 30% of the vote, forcing the eventual victor, Paul von Hindenburg, into a runoff election. After a bigger landslide in July 1932 (44%), their vote declined and their movement weakened (Hitler lost the presidential election to WWI veteran Paul von Hindenburg in April; elections of November 1932 roughly 42%), so Hitler decided to enter a coalition government as chancellor in January 1933.Upon the death of Hindenburg in August 1934, Hitler was the consensus successor.(Were’s the fraud?)
Labor Power is Suppressed:
How do you think Hitler came into power? Most of the elite thought correctly that he was gutter trash, they even referred to him as the Corporal because he was enlisted in the military and not an officer. He came into power by empowering the worker. He introduced the paid vacation, 40 hour workweek, health care, 2 hour work breaks, paid overtime, clean and safe factories. There is a reason why he stared in Good Housekeeping and Time Magazine.
Supremacy of the Military:
This was Germany, don’t you remember the Kaiser? Maybe you should look at the military helmet Hindenburg wore around when he was president. Even if this was the defining moment when Nazism became right wing if this were true that would still mean that North Korea and China right wing.
Here is a quote by Friedrich Engels- “True, it is a fixed idea with the French that the Rhine is their property, but to this arrogant demand the only reply worthy of the German nation is Arndt’s: “Give back Alsace and Lorraine”. For I am of the opinion, perhaps in contrast to many whose standpoint I share in other respects, that the reconquest of the German-speaking left bank of the Rhine is a matter of national honour, and that the Germanisation of a disloyal Holland and of Belgium is a political necessity for us. Shall we let the German nationality be completely suppressed in these countries, while the Slavs are rising ever more powerfully in the East?”
Hitler’s actions sound like they came from the writer of the communist manifesto :( to bad for the left wing.
Corporate Power is Protected:
How is this possibly right wing, the right wing of this country wants failing corporations to file bankruptcy! The right wing was astonished when G.W.B. bailed out the banks. Perhaps you are still unfamiliar with the big 2 1/2 auto makers, that the conservatives want to file bankruptcy instead on receiving bailouts for the next 20 years.
Seems like the Corporate power at the auto-industry is only being protected by the left-wing. Maybe its somehow viewed that it is the governments job to employ people, Nazi Germany had an unemployment rate that approached zero. That’s probably why they were forced to go to war, because of excessive government spending.
Supremacy of the Military:
I’m still pretty sure the Nazi’s were in charge of everything. In fact maybe you haven’t seen the movie Valkyrie? The military hated Hitler. It actually the Soviets that had the military reign supreme, or maybe you never learned about how the Soviet conscript that had to choose between dying by Nazi hands or dying by the Soviet Military’s hand. Not to mention the military of North Korea are the only ones who get fed regularly.
But yes the Germans did have Nationalism, it is what bound the Socialism together it was what made the upper class not look down at the working class and the working class from not hating the Factory Owners. The difference between Stalin’s socialism was that he glorified the class consciousness whereas Hitler wanted to abolish the class structure and root out class-consciousness.
Perhaps you think that Nazi’s were gun-nuts too. We’ll Germany had the strictest gun laws at the time.
Disdain of Intellectuals:
I don’t know what you think this means? Just remember Hitlers Germany invented the guided rocket, the jet engine, Buna synthetic rubber, the electron microscope, twin rotor helicopter, etc. If only they disdained intellectuals, things could have been much easier for us. Or maybe you and your fancy entertainment site are so smart that you invented something more complex than the electron microscope.
Rampant Corruption:
Really? You don’t think that people were executed for corruption in Germany? You don’t think Corruption happened in the USSR and people were executed. You don’t think people are undergoing rampant corruption in North Korea?
So maybe if you just read my page you would have discovered that I went to Georgetown after graduating, and then to medical school. Unless you like your left-wing counter part doesn’t trust the military.
February 7th, 2009 at 10:22 pmElBruce Says:
professorj Says:
Barney Frank and Chris Dodd were responsible for the downfall of the mortgage industry through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Fannie & Freddie did not cause the mortgage and financial industries to melt down. You’re just trying to use them as scapegoats.
Another (more general) problem that you wingnuts are overlooking with your “scapegoat” explanation method is that it’s predicated on the notion that your economic and social models are sooo fragile that it only takes one or two bad actors to destroy the entire system. But this is the explanation you’re using to defend the overall system! So, either the problem was systemic, or the system was too fragile, in which case the problem was systemic.
Obviously, what would have prevented this would be appropriate regulation of this entire financial market that was proceeding with total opacity and total disregard for overall consequences. That’s called “regulation.”
My comments were made to show that it wasn’t just the Republicans responsible for this economic crisis. It could have been prevented or at least minimized by a few Government officials who’s job it was to oversee those areas. Barney Frank and Chris Dodd failed to do this. They are as responsible for this mess as President Bush. They were even more responsible than Bush because when their attention was directed to the possibility of a problem they lied and refused to look into the problem. A common fact and well documented by their own words.
Many of those Mortgages that were bundled and resold originated at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The brokers felt safe in selling suspicious mortgages backed by Fannie and Freddie because they were backed by the Federal Government. The reselling of those instruments over and over was a definite problem. When all those cheap mortgages became expensive mortgages and property values dropped the shock wave swept through the Banking industry. Sure some mortgages were sold by scrupulous people but you have that in any industry.
Those responsible for overseeing those areas of regulation failed to do so. That brings us back to Barney Frank and Chris Dodd.
Scapegoats, maybe they should be because as of late they are still in charge of overseeing those areas of the economy but haven’t been asked to explain themselves.
Not as simple as posting information in a neat and clean little bundle like you did. There is a bigger picture then the clinical explanation from someone else.
I applaud you for doing the research and posting it here. Except for you conclusion I can’t find a “flaw” in your post (as Ralph would say). I take offense at the “wingnut” comment but I understand. Your a Liberal and that’s how you think people communicate with each other. It’s not really necessary in trying to make a point.
February 7th, 2009 at 10:24 pmAl Sharpton ran for president in 2004. With your presumed “black boost” he should have actually been a contender. I mean, if Democrats vote for black men because they’re black, Sharpton should have cruised.
-Thats the thing Democrats don’t vote for black men. As witness during the last election. He is neither black nor a man.
February 7th, 2009 at 10:24 pmRalph. I don’t really care if you fail to see what happened in this past election. It matters not to me. My position stands as written. There are sources that back up what I have observed and there are sources that will back you up.
If you don’t think that being Black helped Obama win the election then so be it. If you don’t think that the Liberal media was in the tank for Obama and against McCain then so be it. You didn’t watch the same election that I did.
My opinion still stands and all the badgering that you do to confuse the issue is just another liberal tactic to deny the truth.
Facts are facts. But facts can be made to lie. Truth is also subjective. Numbers and statistics can be made to lie also.
February 7th, 2009 at 10:35 pmRalph as far as Barney Frank and your assumption that he held no power and wasn’t responsible for anything I suggest you do some research. He had the same power then that he has now along with Chris Dodd. You really need to check it out instead of continuing to deny their involvement in this mess. If you don’t then that just shows your bias. You do some research and find out the facts or the truth. I’m not making this up. It’s there if you care to learn about it.
I know that it’s not one of your liberal talking points to admit that the Democrats are knee deep in this problem but if your truly interested in learning about it then it’s out there.
February 7th, 2009 at 10:43 pmIt wasn’t just the media. Pepsi put on a multi-million dollar ad campaign and changed their logo. He is the culmination of it.
http://www.refresheverything.com/america/default.aspx
February 7th, 2009 at 10:43 pmBut its quite alright. Because the day after the election all the republicans told the democrats to go back to work.
February 7th, 2009 at 10:46 pmJeffrey I know that Ralph only believes what he can read somewhere but his analysis is really wrong. He uses Percentages not hard numbers and because he got them from some site they must be correct. He thinks he’s conducting a discussion but all he does is ask questions about things that have been answered already. I don’t need web sites or blogs to back me up. I can find a web site that will back up any stupid statement no matter how dumb it is.
I’ve been at this a very long time. I have more integrity than most of those Liberals that make believe they are reporting the news. I’m sure that he has never heard or seen anyone express my opinions on TV.
My observations are correct. I was deep into these elections. I’m very active and don’t sit on the sidelines.
I don’t need a web site to back me up.
February 7th, 2009 at 10:52 pmJeffrey Hulsebos Says:
Al Sharpton ran for president in 2004. With your presumed “black boost” he should have actually been a contender. I mean, if Democrats vote for black men because they’re black, Sharpton should have cruised.
-Thats the thing Democrats don’t vote for black men. As witness during the last election. He is neither black nor a man
You actually posted that as an argument. Al Sharpton. You want me to tell you why Al Sharpton was rejected? You really are reaching Ralph aren’t you. Sharpton is hated by as many black people as white. He is an ignorant fool. No one would vote for him. People know who he is.
You actually posted that. Amazing.
February 7th, 2009 at 11:00 pmJeffrey Hulsebos Says:
Al Sharpton ran for president in 2004. With your presumed “black boost” he should have actually been a contender. I mean, if Democrats vote for black men because they’re black, Sharpton should have cruised.
You show me where I said that Democrats vote for black men because they’re black. Show me.
February 7th, 2009 at 11:02 pmDude- I didn’t write that, I copied it from someones post. Democrats don’t vote for black people most of the time, that’s why there is only 1 black senator and no one voted for him. For the most part for a black man to win in a Democratic voting area, black people have to have a plurality. I mean the last election 95% of black people voted for the Democrat, you would think that they would win some Democrat Senate seats wouldn’t you.
February 7th, 2009 at 11:18 pmJeffrey Hulsebos Says:
Nazi party Platform…
Ew. Well, good work finding counterexamples. You’ve also discovered that Hitler was an inconsistent politician, such that counterexamples can be found on any of his policies.
Basically you’re saying that the list of things that signify fascist states don’t apply to Hitler. Is it your argument that Hitler was not a fascist?
.
Really, Really? I guess China, Korea, Vietnam, Hamas, Iran, etc. They are all fascists?
I didn’t say that it takes only one of those points to demonstrate that a nation is fascist. And you know I didn’t say that. Which means that you’re being willfully ignorant. Stop it.
.
So maybe if you just read my page you would have discovered that I went to Georgetown after graduating, and then to medical school.
If I’m going to use your chosen login name as your given name, then you’re Jeffrey, not Hans. And the link you gave doesn’t say Hans has an M.S. or that he went to Georgetown.
.
professorj Says:
They were even more responsible than Bush because when their attention was directed to the possibility of a problem they lied and refused to look into the problem. A common fact and well documented by their own words.
Except that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were not the problem. Pointing at “somebody wanted to change some Fannie/Freddie rules and the Dems didn’t like it” as an explanation for the complete meltdown of the financial industry still fails to explain how Fannie and Freddie caused the complete meltdown of the financial industry.
.
Many of those Mortgages that were bundled and resold originated at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The brokers felt safe in selling suspicious mortgages backed by Fannie and Freddie because they were backed by the Federal Government.
Fannie and Freddie did not originate mortgages. Their function was to buy mortgages from private lenders so that those companies could recapitalize:
So you’ve got it exactly backwards. Fannie/Freddie were taking some of the loans off of the hands of the banks. That’s what they do.
Those responsible for overseeing those areas of regulation failed to do so. That brings us back to Barney Frank and Chris Dodd.
Wikipedia tells me that Chris Dodd became Chair of Banking/Housing/UrbanAffairs on 1/4/2007. Is that when the problem started?
I’m looking up just what the hell Barney Frank did that pisses you people off so much (aside from being gay) and all I can find is him blocking a Bush proposal in 2003 to move oversight of Fannie/Freddie away from Congress and HUD to a new agency tasked just to oversee them. I don’t see how that proposal would have prevented the overall housing crisis, since 1) Fannie and Freddie were holding a minority of the loans that tanked five years later, and 2) there’s no evidence that the 2003 plan would actually have “improved” anything, or that anything was “broken.”
I applaud you for doing the research and posting it here. Except for you conclusion I can’t find a “flaw” in your post (as Ralph would say). I take offense at the “wingnut” comment but I understand. Your a Liberal and that’s how you think people communicate with each other. It’s not really necessary in trying to make a point.
It may not be necessary, but it is both concise and accurate.
.
professorj Says:
My observations are correct.
No they’re not. You’re wrong, and we’re right.
Hey, this is easy! I should have been doing this argumentation method the whole time!
Look, you can’t just come in here and say somebody’s numbers are wrong unless you post the right numbers. Then you and him can argue about the accuracy of your sources. But you aren’t making any ground just saying he’s wrong and leaving it at that
.
professorj Says:
You show me where I said that Democrats vote for black men because they’re black. Show me.
563. The fact that he is black helped him get elected though. If he was white and had no experience he wouldn’t of been considered by the Democrats and Hillary would be president right now.
The votes that got him elected were based on Color and emotion.
You’re referring to votes he got during the Democratic primary, and saying he got those votes (from Democrats) because he is black.
February 7th, 2009 at 11:44 pmJeffrey Hulsebos Says:
Democrats don’t vote for black people most of the time, that’s why there is only 1 black senator and no one voted for him. For the most part for a black man to win in a Democratic voting area, black people have to have a plurality.
You only get to pick on Democrats specifically for this if the same weren’t true for the Republican party. How many Republican Senators are there? Congressmen? So it seems to me that if you’ve found a problem, then you’ve actually found a problem with America overall. Substitute “Democrat” with “American” in your post, and it actually makes more sense, and is more accurate.
February 7th, 2009 at 11:50 pmprofessorj Says:
You show me where I said that Democrats vote for black men because they’re black. Show me.
563. The fact that he is black helped him get elected though. If he was white and had no experience he wouldn’t of been considered by the Democrats and Hillary would be president right now.
The votes that got him elected were based on Color and emotion.
You’re referring to votes he got during the Democratic primary, and saying he got those votes (from Democrats) because he is black.
Now where did I say that Democrats voted for black men because they’re black. I don’t see it. It’s not what I said at all.
I said that he got votes based on his color. I never said that All Democrats voted for him because he was black. I said it helped him get votes because he was black. Common knowledge that the increase in the black vote in this country was because he was black.
I’m looking up just what the hell Barney Frank did that pisses you people off so much (aside from being gay) and all I can find is him blocking a Bush proposal in 2003 to move oversight of Fannie/Freddie away from Congress and HUD to a new agency tasked just to oversee them. I don’t see how that proposal would have prevented the overall housing crisis, since 1) Fannie and Freddie were holding a minority of the loans that tanked five years later, and 2) there’s no evidence that the 2003 plan would actually have “improved” anything, or that anything was “broken.”
I take offense at your gay remark. Never mentioned it but maybe you have a problem with it. He blocked a proposal that might of headed off the problem in 2003. He lied about the solvency of Fannie and Freddie. You get it. He lied. He also took money from them for his campaigns and so did Dodd. Sort of a political piggy bank. Guess what Obama also took campaign funds form them.
Loans were made to people who couldn’t afford them because Freddie and Fannie backed those loans. Fannie and Freddie held the majority of loans that went belly up or allowed them to be sold to other agencies so you information is wrong.
He blocked a plan that might of stopped the collapse of the industry or at least eased it a bit. My problem is that it was his job to oversee things there and he failed miserably and on top of it all he lied through his teeth.
If he was a Republican he would have been put in jail by now instead he has been put in charge of the investigation by you Democrats.
February 8th, 2009 at 12:28 amprofessorj Says:
They were even more responsible than Bush because when their attention was directed to the possibility of a problem they lied and refused to look into the problem. A common fact and well documented by their own words.
Except that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were not the problem. Pointing at “somebody wanted to change some Fannie/Freddie rules and the Dems didn’t like it” as an explanation for the complete meltdown of the financial industry still fails to explain how Fannie and Freddie caused the complete meltdown of the financial industry
The first card to fall in a house of cards.
February 8th, 2009 at 12:33 amYeah, I figured you’d eventually come to this point — decide that my reasonable questions and objections were “badgering” because you’re not able or willing to offer anything of your own other than your opinion.
basically, it seems like you’re willing to state the way that you see things, and then decide that this is the way things are and if anyone sees things a different way, then they’re delusional.
The problem with that is, I could do the same thing, and no one would ever get anywhere, which may be where you’d prefer to be, because then you could claim a hollow victory and tell yourself you won something.
I’m not really sure what you mean by “logic” when you use the term. You certainly don’t mean the same thing I do when I use that word. To me, “logic” is a pattern of thought that makes objective sense, starting from a set point and proceeding to a meaningful conclusion, with each step adhering to accepted rules of logic. In order to make this journey, there has to be a known and accepted starting point. If there are two people on the journey, that starting point has to be accepted by both or else you have two separate journeys, which is what we’ve taken here tonight. I thought we were starting from a common departure point, since you professed to adhere to “reason” and “logic”. I guess I assumed that those words meant the same to you as they do to me.
But your entire argument has been built of your own opinion, and your own subjective observation. You gave no ground in the interest of finding a common meeting space, gave no indication that your own perspective may be limited and someone else may have a vlid perspective.
I can see now why you chose that tactic.
February 8th, 2009 at 12:41 amSo basically, the only other recent instance of a black man running for the Democratic nomination, he didn’t get support because of his record and his personality. Not because he was black, but because of what people knew about him and thought of him.
So you’re admitting that the only empirical evidence that bears on this question and could prove your point (that Democrats voted for Obama because of his race) actually tends to support my position (that Democratic voters chose Obama because he was an outstanding candidate).
Thanks. I think we’re done here.
February 8th, 2009 at 12:45 amFannie, the Federal National Mortgage Association, and Freddie, the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corp., don’t lend money, to minorities or anyone else, however. They purchase loans from the private lenders who actually underwrite the loans.
It’s a process called securitization, and by passing on the loans, banks have more capital on hand so they can lend even more.
You make me laugh.
Fannie and Freddie were Established by the federal government to insure mortgages. By insure I mean to insure that questionable loans will be picked up by them. When you know that writing a mortgage to someone who obviously can’t pay for it will be picked up by the Federal government then you write loans to anyone. In reality Fannie and Freddie were at the root cause of the mortgage collapse and Barney was behind it all as overseer. They were the reason lenders made those questionable loans to people who couldn’t pay. They knew that Fannie and Freddie would buy them. That is their sole purpose. The bottom of the House of cards. It worked until peoples houses starting losing value. Like a big ponzie scheme.
Beat around the bush if you like. I know better.
February 8th, 2009 at 12:47 amSo basically, the only other recent instance of a black man running for the Democratic nomination, he didn’t get support because of his record and his personality. Not because he was black, but because of what people knew about him and thought of him.
So you’re admitting that the only empirical evidence that bears on this question and could prove your point (that Democrats voted for Obama because of his race) actually tends to support my position (that Democratic voters chose Obama because he was an outstanding candidate).
Now your posting nonsense. It has nothing to do with anything I said. Maybe you you have me confused with someone else or you don’t understand the English language.
February 8th, 2009 at 12:53 amNot even close.
Subprime lenders started closing their doors in 2006. Freddie and Fannie were not taken over until September of 2008.
How does this make them “the first card to fall”?
February 8th, 2009 at 12:54 amPlease explain how I’m posting “nonsense”.
You said:
If this were a generalized principle among Democrats, as you suggest, then this same principle should come into play with other black candidates as well. otherwise it’s not generalized and is particularized to this one instance. Which means that the characteristics of the individual makes the difference, not his race.
You recognized that Al Sharpton got no extra support from the voters based on his race. You said he was hated. Therefore, who he was mattered more to the voters than his race. Therefore, you have no logical reason to conclude otherwise concerning Obama.
It looks an awful lot like you’ve taken this one instance (Obama) and, for whatever reason, attributed his electoral success to an immutable characteristic, with no evidence other than your assertion.
February 8th, 2009 at 1:02 amprofessorj Says:
Now where did I say that Democrats voted for black men because they’re black. I don’t see it. It’s not what I said at all.
I said that he got votes based on his color. I never said that All Democrats voted for him because he was black. I said it helped him get votes because he was black.
Nobody said you said all Dems voted for him because he was black. You said it was enough of a factor to overcome his deficiency in experience vs. Hillary.
Tap dance all you want to. You said it, you got beat down. But I’ll just leave you with President Obama’s own words on the subject.
.
professorj Says:
He blocked a proposal that might of headed off the problem in 2003. He lied about the solvency of Fannie and Freddie. You get it. He lied.
Might have? Is that all you got? Show me how the proposal would have prevented this collapse.
Fannie and Freddie were insolvent in 2003? If that’s the case, why did they exist up until late 2008?
.
professorj Says:
Loans were made to people who couldn’t afford them because Freddie and Fannie backed those loans. Fannie and Freddie held the majority of loans that went belly up or allowed them to be sold to other agencies so you information is wrong.
You haven’t provided any other information. All I got to go on right now is
I wouldn’t call 24% “a majority.”
.
professorj Says:
He blocked a plan that might of stopped the collapse of the industry or at least eased it a bit. My problem is that it was his job to oversee things there and he failed miserably and on top of it all he lied through his teeth.
I still have yet to see evidence of this lie. But you still haven’t explained how that 2003 proposal could have prevented the mortgage crisis overall. In fact, you’ve done no backing research for any of your claims, which is not appreciated.
.
professorj Says:
The first card to fall in a house of cards.
Do you blame the card? Or the idiot who decided that cards were a good thing to make a house out of? Again, the problem was systemic, and not blameable on any set of individual institutions.
.
professorj Says:
When you know that writing a mortgage to someone who obviously can’t pay for it will be picked up by the Federal government then you write loans to anyone.
Except that there are specific minimum guidelines for what loans they’ll purchase. The person you’re writing the loan to has to meet those criteria or else you can’t shift it. That tends to be the way things are with public/private entities – lots of red tape, y’know.
February 8th, 2009 at 1:37 amElBruce Says:
You only get to pick on Democrats specifically for this if the same weren’t true for the Republican party. How many Republican Senators are there? Congressmen? So it seems to me that if you’ve found a problem, then you’ve actually found a problem with America overall. Substitute “Democrat” with “American” in your post, and it actually makes more sense, and is more accurate.
(Well maybe you didn’t look at who black people vote for in the last election 95% Democrat 5% Republican for now the inner city is your mess, and by that standard Blacks are overrepresented by Republicans. Seeing how the inner city socialist philosophy has worked out for them so well, we Republicans expect a turnaround after the Obamessiah doesn’t deliver them to the promised land)
February 8th, 2009 at 1:42 amJeffrey Hulsebos Says:
(Well maybe you didn’t look at who black people vote for in the last election 95% Democrat 5% Republican for now the inner city is your mess, and by that standard Blacks are overrepresented by Republicans. Seeing how the inner city socialist philosophy has worked out for them so well, we Republicans expect a turnaround after the Obamessiah doesn’t deliver them to the promised land)
1. Stop saying “inner city.” Seriously, just stop. That’s like a three-decade-old code word for “black.” Due to suburban sprawl, that’s meaningless anyways – in about half of the major cities in America at present, the downtown area boasts the highest real estate values and the fewest minorities. So whatever you thought you meant by that, just fails without even getting into whatever your racist argument was.
2. You think the Republican party should have fewer African-Americans in Congress than they do now? Really? How do you propose having less than zero?
3. You don’t get a “turnaround” for being wrong. Being wrong doesn’t get another chance. And, what socialist philosophy has worked out for whom so well? Are you saying that black people have less economic opportunity than they did twenty, thirty years ago? Or are you saying that they should? I’d strongly advise you go with neither of those avenues of argumentation.
4. Why do you right-wingers keep referring to Obama as “the Messiah?” It’s really starting to weird the rest of us out. Warning: the Secret Service will stop you if you try to nail him to a cross. So just knock that crap off, you cultist freaks.
February 8th, 2009 at 2:36 amYou think the Republican party should have fewer African-Americans in Congress than they do now? Really? How do you propose having less than zero?
How many prominent Black people in the Democratic party can you name?
You don’t get a “turnaround” for being wrong. Being wrong doesn’t get another chance. And, what socialist philosophy has worked out for whom so well? Are you saying that black people have less economic opportunity than they did twenty, thirty years ago? Or are you saying that they should? I’d strongly advise you go with neither of those avenues of argumentation.
-There lives in the Northern United States have not improved.
http://www.prb.org/Articles/2007/ColorDivideinInfantMortality.aspx
They’ve just gotten worse from being governed by democrats
Why do you right-wingers keep referring to Obama as “the Messiah?” It’s really starting to weird the rest of us out. Warning: the Secret Service will stop you if you try to nail him to a cross. So just knock that crap off, you cultist freaks.
-When was the last time you saw someone under 50 pass out when a politician was speaking?
Stop saying “inner city.” Seriously, just stop. That’s like a three-decade-old code word for “black.” Due to suburban sprawl, that’s meaningless anyways – in about half of the major cities in America at present, the downtown area boasts the highest real estate values and the fewest minorities. So whatever you thought you meant by that, just fails without even getting into whatever your racist argument was.
February 8th, 2009 at 2:53 am-And when this happens liberal draw mustaches on Guiliani. Now thats weird creepy shit.
Did it ever occur to you that the reason that African Americans vote overwhelmingly for Democratic candidates is because they are the ones that are most likely to work hard to improve education and fight both poverty and urban blight?
February 8th, 2009 at 2:54 am-Democrats did one heck of a job with that, so much that whenever I go to a liquor store here in Chicago a black man asks me for change-oh yeah just like Obama (maybe he is black)
That was from the Onion -Black man asks America for Change
February 8th, 2009 at 3:06 amJeffrey Hulsebos Says:
How many prominent Black people in the Democratic party can you name?
Prominent people, or Congressmen? Some, not many. Not enough. More than zero.
Quit switching back and forth. Whenever I’m “Republicans got no black people” you’re like “Democrats got no black people” then when I’m like “see? neither have enough black people” you’re like “all black people vote Democrat.” Then we start over. I’m tired of playing pattycake back and forth on this. You do not have a point that you are trying to make.
Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
There lives in the Northern United States have not improved.
http://www.prb.org/ Articles/ 2007/ ColorDivideinInfantMortality.aspx
They’ve just gotten worse from being governed by democrats
1. So we should help black people. OK.
2. Democrats are the only ones who have attempted to govern the country in the last few decades? OK.
.
Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
When was the last time you saw someone under 50 pass out when a politician was speaking?
Have you ever smelled Newt Gingrich’s breath?
.
Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
And when this happens liberal draw mustaches on Guiliani. Now thats weird creepy shit.
I’m afraid I have no idea what you’re talking about. So, between me and you, we’re 0 for 2.
.
Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
…so much that whenever I go to a liquor store here in Chicago a black man asks me for change.
Every time? That’s a lie. Go down there right now, and when that doesn’t happen, come back and beg for forgiveness.
It don’t get much more racist than that statement right there. You really believe every stereotype you’ve ever heard, and you blame those stereotypes on the people who want to improve things. Like you’ve never had white people hit you up for change at the liquor store. I have. “Every time!” But I don’t blame Republicans for the existence of hicks.
You’re the most obscenely racist piece of shit I’ve seen on the Internet outside of your home page all week. Congratulations, you get the lily-white star of the day!
February 8th, 2009 at 3:09 amWow, nice link. I’ve have you know that my grandfather was shot by some dumbass during WWII because he was mistaken as a German.
Yes, every time. I can’t go there right now because they are closed. However, its been a warm day so I bet the drunks are doing the moonwalk across the street or just plain walking down it wearing dark clothes hoping to get hit so they can get involved in a lawsuit.
1. So we should help black people. OK.
February 8th, 2009 at 3:20 am-By taking the pacifier out of their mouths, and tell them hey its tough, expensive, and dangerous to live in the city. You should probably leave it like every other ethnic group that has made it in America.
Trajan75 IQ Says:
Jeffy:
For a guy that claims to be a scientist/ medical student/ naval officer, you certainly don’t appear to be very bright.
-Well I could challenge you to take a comparative IQ test with me like Joe Biden…but that would be f-ing retarded.
February 8th, 2009 at 3:22 amQuit switching back and forth. Whenever I’m “Republicans got no black people” you’re like “Democrats got no black people” then when I’m like “see? neither have enough black people” you’re like “all black people vote Democrat.” Then we start over. I’m tired of playing pattycake back and forth on this. You do not have a point that you are trying to make.
-The point is for an ethnic group to support a party like yours as much as they do, you would think that there would be some kind of payback…that is the point.
February 8th, 2009 at 3:25 amhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1127427/After-week-office-Barack-Obamas-approval-rating-plunges-shocking-15-points.html
Its plunging like the U.S. economy, haha
February 8th, 2009 at 3:30 amTrajan75 IQ Says:
BTW Jeffy:
I find your racist behavior to be unbecoming conduct for a Naval Officer. I bet you’re glad you are just a figment of your deranged imagination, otherwise you could be facing court marshal.
Definition of that offense:
There are certain moral attributes common to the ideal officer and the perfect gentleman, a lack of which is indicated by acts of dishonesty, unfair dealing, indecency, indecorum, lawlessness, injustice, or cruelty.
Was I dishonest -no
Did I have an unfair dealing – no
Was I indecent – no, having a discussion about race relations was authorized by my Commander and Cheif
Did I display indecorum – no
Did I display lawlessness – no
Was I displaying injustice (which is defined as treating equals as equals and unequals as unequals by medical ethics)
Was I being Cruel – no I didn’t do anything to anyone, nor would I ever try to play favoritism to an subordinate based on race-that is racism-that is equal opportunity law.
So the next time you try to blabber about the military start standing up every time the American flag passes you, start going to the position of attention every time you hear the national anthem, and make adjustments like my Commander and Cheif and start putting your hand over your heart when you hear it, or shut of f-ing mouth you dirty f-ing civilian.
February 8th, 2009 at 3:42 amJeffy, I checked out you link and noticed the following>
The new President’s approval ratings have fallen from a stratospheric 83 per cent to a more modest – although still impressive – 68 per cent.
Did you even bother to read the article?
Yes, 15 points. Bush started with a 50% and stopped at a 30%, thats close to what he did in 8 years.
February 8th, 2009 at 3:45 amWhy do you Republicans hate America?
February 8th, 2009 at 3:52 amThe last time we had a major party in continental America which fought the divide was 1864.
February 8th, 2009 at 3:58 amWhy do you Republicans hate America?
I hope Hill-Dog asks that to Gates so he lunges across the table and strangles her.
February 8th, 2009 at 4:00 amJeffy,
February 8th, 2009 at 4:04 amAnswer the question. Why do you love foreigners, yet you hate Americans.
C’mon Jeffy.
February 8th, 2009 at 4:06 am107.
Tweedster-you know what they say when in Rome…speak like a roman?
Yeah i don’t know not my post.
Maybe you don’t understand the American mentality, when violence occurs people rally around the President. Pretty soon Obama will need one of his own, Biden predicted it will occur in 6 months.
February 8th, 2009 at 4:21 amWhy do I love foreigner and hate Americans? How do I hate Americans, because I think socialism is a wash. Because I don’t think it is the correct path at any juncture. Because, I don’t want my country going into ruin like Iceland? This country will emerge out of the recession and it will occur much quicker than the recession that the EU is going into. Do you want to know why? Because our system or lack there of is extremely flexible and will recover, it was going to recover no matter who is/was/or is going to run the country. It was going to recover because, it has already been proven that no-matter how much you manipulate the economy like FDR did it recovers, and then another recession hits. The only reason it didn’t happen during Clinton’s administration was because of the DOT.COM Bubble which exploded the economy of this country-maybe you should check out the NASDEQ index during his administration. This recession is being used as an excuse of why the government needs to expand its role and get really intimate with its citizens. Well my friend, that makes me really concerned, as Reagan quoted “The worst thing that any citizen can hear at their front door is, hello were from the United States government and were here to help.” What happens when some real nut gets elected President again? Such as Woodrow Wilson who exclaimed “We just need to find a way to get the citizen to align himself with the intrests of the State.” That is text book Fascism, but the good thing about this country is we have for the most part kept the government out of the individuals business. We have keep the American king of his own castle. When the government takes an intrest into how the individual lives ie. Health Care, Sexuality, Drug Use, Reading Habits, what Church they go to, how wide of a stance they have in the bathroom it really concerns me. People are signing away their freedoms because they are scared, they were scared when terrorists struck the world trade towers so they signed the patriot act losing their privacy, they are scared about the economy and their jobs so they are casting their lot in with the socialist-giving away their god given right to liberty. It scares the living sh-t out of me that I have a President, who actually believes that all America voted for “Change,” and its scares me even more that people who voted couldn’t figure out what that meant. I should be happy because I am getting paid to go to school, and I will always have a job-no matter what. But I am not, especially when I have a President who believes that inviting a gay-bashing preacher is canceled out by inviting a gay preacher to his innaugural. I’m scared that I have a President who leaves his Church of 20 years because of media scrutiny. I’m sorry this is America, what people do in their own homes, churches, and businesses is and should aways be their own damn business. I wish I had a President how could embody the American ideal, and be ready to fall on the sword for it, But its been 16 years since we’ve had a President who could do this and its going to be 20 before we have a chance again.
February 8th, 2009 at 4:52 amSixteen years ago? That would be 1993 right? So who was president in ‘93?
February 8th, 2009 at 10:09 amChoking yet? It’s too bad that people like you two need to rely on URL’s for your information. I read your nonsense here and see that you don’t come to your own conclusion on anything. You do use the Liberal playbook very well. I also see that your Leftist talking points need to be updated a little bit and that your Hate for people with an opposing view is up to par.
Your tactic of calling names is constantly used and your Anti Republican Bigotry is worthy of the Daily KOS.
There are your URL’s. I don’t rely on them but of course you idiots do. OOOPS did I say idiots. Maybe your not but I do rely on my observations when I form my opinions. No I don’t have a URL to back that up.
Liberals being Liberals. I rarely meet a Liberal who is happy. I wonder why. They have ALL the power now. What? The mean ol’ Rethuglicans won’t let you pass a bill that will hamstring this country for the next 10 years or more. You don’t need us.
You Liberals go for it. You have all the power now. You also have all the blame because the majority of the Republicans aren’t buying into your massive boondoggle.
One good thing though. The Republicans forced you idiots (damn I used that word again)to reduce the bill by 100 billion dollars. Gotta love those Republicans. My Great Grandchildren might be able to earn a living without giving it all to the Government.
February 8th, 2009 at 10:21 amWhat university was it again that that employs you? I sort of missed it in all the gibberish of the last 644
February 8th, 2009 at 10:25 amI’m really going to tell you Idiots that.
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha . Don’t worry you won’t run into me. Your not at that level yet. You see you have to be able to form independent thought. Not URL thought. You also have to be able to see both sides of an argument.
February 8th, 2009 at 11:00 amdbadass Says:
What university was it again that that employs you? I sort of missed it in all the gibberish of the last 644
Hey it’s what you wanted. It’s not the way I form an opinion.
URL’s are someone else opinions. I form my own.
What? You can’t read or you can’t understand?
February 8th, 2009 at 11:05 amHey dbadass. I love your name. It’s very telling. Did the kids bully you in school? Wedgies, being stuffed in your locker?
I don’t usually post things like this but it is How you Liberals communicate, isn’t it?
Page 46 of “Liberal Tactics Against Opposing Views”, v2,June12/ 2007.
February 8th, 2009 at 11:31 amThey have a guard at the kindergarden entrance?
February 8th, 2009 at 11:44 amThese pathetic attempts by trolls to pretend to be enlightened are the metaphoric equivilant of the republicans who now want us to solve the problem they created by doing the same thing they did to screw things up.
News headline trolls. The people voted for a change, specifically from you and your ideas. You have been judged and found lacking. Time for you to listen instead of pontificating………just a little friendly advice.
February 8th, 2009 at 12:01 pmexibit A:
In other words, I’m not interested in your facts, I have my own that I made up and thats my reality.
very enlightened “my friend”
February 8th, 2009 at 12:09 pm16 Years ago, hmmm let me think… Oh yeah it was President Bush , then he handed the country over to a President that had the gall to hand U.S. soldiers over to foreign command-which was not only illegal but unconstitutional and Anti-American as hell. But, but, but President Bush violated the constitution by suspending habius corpus to foreign fighters. I don’t see President Obama, doing anything about that one, except stall on action. Probably because he knows that if just one of those foreign fighters gets captured again in Afganistan or Iraq, he is done.
February 8th, 2009 at 3:51 pmJust a taste for what will happen with Guantanamo detainees before they start shooting and blowing up U.S. soldiers.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090208/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_yemen_al_qaida_suspects
Thanks Barrack, that will make my future job a little more exciting….
February 8th, 2009 at 3:55 pmHi professor j:
February 8th, 2009 at 4:24 pmAs to my screen name it is a play on words relative to my name that students developed years ago. See the thing is I don’t make shit up.
2009 minus 16 = B. Clinton.
February 8th, 2009 at 4:37 pmJeffrey must have taken his math courses a j’s university. Besides even if you ment Bush previous your argument is absurd as his administration was all about the ar on Drugs which you acknowledged was government sticking noses where the should not be. I used to live down the road from the Bush clan and have met many of them. I wasn’t impressed…
Jeffy,
Apparently you don’t know that, for all intents and purposes, “Conduct Unbecoming” is what an Article-32 Hearing Board says it is. Of course there’s really no reason that you would know this since I doubt you’re even in the military. If your are, I suspect you’re a low-level, apprentice corpsman who, as you have already indicated: listens to the patent’s description of symptoms, writes a script, and then after showing both script and intake notes to a DOCTOR, gets an #ss-chewing. Now, just why would the DOCTOR chew you out? Hmmm?
BTY, the Navy doesn’t train individuals to be doctors. Medical schools teach students to become doctors. Dogs are trained. People are taught. I do hope you appreciate the distinction.
As for your many educational achievements, well, getting a GED just isn’t that difficult (you do have one, don’t you?), and veterinary school seems to be way over your head. Why? Because, among other IQ related issues, you appear incapable of coherent, connected written speech. Your level of education is exemplified by your opening sentence in your post #605 as follows: “Dude – I didn’t say that…” Now, that’s what I call erudite – or not.
February 8th, 2009 at 5:27 pmdbadass Says:
Hi professor j:
As to my screen name it is a play on words relative to my name that students developed years ago. See the thing is I don’t make shit up.
Neither do I.
February 8th, 2009 at 5:54 pmFred Says:
exibit A:
professorj Says:
There are your URL’s. I don’t rely on them but of course you idiots do. OOOPS did I say idiots. Maybe your not but I do rely on my observations when I form my opinions. No I don’t have a URL to back that up.
In other words, I’m not interested in your facts, I have my own that I made up and thats my reality.
very enlightened “my friend”
Hey. It must be dark inside your closed mind.
February 8th, 2009 at 5:58 pmSo you would be okay telling me aout that course number and institution….
February 8th, 2009 at 5:58 pm#
#
Fred Says:
These pathetic attempts by trolls to pretend to be enlightened are the metaphoric equivilant of the republicans who now want us to solve the problem they created by doing the same thing they did to screw things up.
News headline trolls. The people voted for a change, specifically from you and your ideas. You have been judged and found lacking. Time for you to listen instead of pontificating………just a little friendly advice.
Yet you still listen to us. My, my. I have said this all along. Go for it. You think that your the enlightened one. Great. Why do you waste your time whining all the time?
You won. It’s your ball game now. The liberals here cry like babies.. Just remember one thing. We’re not going anywhere. You have the power,you don’t need us. Pass the PORK bill. We can’t stop you. Must you Liberals cry and whine all the time? Enjoy your victory. Ha Ha Ha Ha.
February 8th, 2009 at 6:04 pmshoeless Says:
Jeffrey Hulsebos Says:
1 trillion into Iraq = Democracy
1 trillion into U.S. government expansions = Socialism
At least they voted for Democracy
You forgot a few numbers.
1 million dead civilians in Iraq
5 million orphans and widows in Iraq
7 million Iraqi refugees in Iraq, Syria and Jordan
4600 dead American soldiers in Iraq
75,000 severely wounded American soldiers in Iraq
All of these numbers= Neoconservativism
But you forgot these numbers:
58,000 Killed in Vietnam
153,000 Injured in Vietnam
1,100,000 North Vietnamese Army and National Liberation Front Deaths
4,000,000 North Vietnamese Civilian Deaths
184,000 South Vietnamese Military Deaths
2,000,000 South Vietnamese Civilian Deaths
Monetary Cost: 600,000,000,000
All of these numbers: One Socialist getting into a tiff with another.
Another List of Democratic Party Atrocities:
LBJ switched Social Security from Independent Fund to General Fund so Congress could spend it.
George Wallace said segregation today segregation tomorrow segregation forever
JFK wiretapped Martin Luther King Jr’s phones
8/11 Of the richest Senators are Democrats and routinely try to convince the American people that Republicans are the party of the rich.
Trail of Tears
Internment Camps
Wrote the first anti-drug laws
Wrote the first laws regarding eugenics
Made Marijuana illegal
February 8th, 2009 at 6:07 pmIn other words, I’m not interested in your facts, I have my own that I made up and thats my reality.
very enlightened “my friend”
I haven’t made up anything. Oh and I’m not you friend. I reserve the right to choose my friends. Call Obie, I’m sure he will give you some cheese with your whine.
February 8th, 2009 at 6:09 pmFred Says:
professorj Says:
I’m really going to tell you Idiots that.
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha . Don’t worry you won’t run into me. Your not at that level yet.
They have a guard at the kindergarden entrance?
I know. They turn you away every day.
February 8th, 2009 at 6:11 pmI am sorry profj but I have to call bullshit. Wanna show you ideas are worthy? Prove yourself not a liar. Link me to you institute of higher learning in such a way as to prove yourself. Otherwish STFU and just admit you are an opinionated individual that felt the need to lie about their employment
February 8th, 2009 at 6:14 pmshoeless Says:
But you forgot these numbers:
58,000 Killed in Vietnam
153,000 Injured in Vietnam
1,100,000 North Vietnamese Army and National Liberation Front Deaths
4,000,000 North Vietnamese Civilian Deaths
184,000 South Vietnamese Military Deaths
2,000,000 South Vietnamese Civilian Deaths
Monetary Cost: 600,000,000,000
All of these numbers: One Socialist getting into a tiff with another.
Another List of Democratic Party Atrocities:
LBJ switched Social Security from Independent Fund to General Fund so Congress could spend it.
George Wallace said segregation today segregation tomorrow segregation forever
JFK wiretapped Martin Luther King Jr’s phones
8/11 Of the richest Senators are Democrats and routinely try to convince the American people that Republicans are the party of the rich.
Trail of Tears
Internment Camps
Wrote the first anti-drug laws
Wrote the first laws regarding eugenics
Made Marijuana illegal
February 8th, 2009 at 6:31 pmdbadass Says:
I am sorry profj but I have to call bullshit. Wanna show you ideas are worthy? Prove yourself not a liar. Link me to you institute of higher learning in such a way as to prove yourself. Otherwish STFU and just admit you are an opinionated individual that felt the need to lie about their employment
I’m not going to link you to anything. Why would I want to give any type of personal information to a Liberal anti-Republican hate monger.
You have to be kidding. If your not kidding then your a bigger fool than your posts make you out to be.
I don’t have to prove squat to you.
February 8th, 2009 at 7:50 pmYour interested in my background? You should have spent more time checking out Obies background instead of smelling his vapor trail and kissing his feet.
Obama Obama Obama Obama. Ha Ha Ha Ha. You slay me. Ha Ha Ha Ha.
February 8th, 2009 at 7:56 pmJeffrey Hulsebos Says:
Maybe you deny that companies have made a fortune off of Obama merchandise? How many different Obama shirts do you see just on Ebay, However said companies also made a fortune the minute Bush was elected but those shirts all said he sucked. What a self-fulfilling prophacy.
Yes 27% of malpractice law suits are settled out of court because the malpractice insurance companies decide that it is cheaper just to not go to court and pay up for fraudulent suits.
The IgG was supposed to be IgA, it stands for Immunoglobulin A. This is part of the adaptive immune system. It is secreted from your lacrimal glands, GI tract, breast milk and all other mucosal surfaces. The reason I brought it up was because some moron thinks it is acceptable to get medical advice from Slate. A few years ago Slate in its infinitesimal wisdom decided to run a piece telling mothers that it isn’t important to breast feed. On the contrary it is very important to breast feed. This is because along with important hormones, IgA is secreted which binds to all of the bacteria and viruses so the baby doesn’t get sick. Thats why I lost all respect for that rag.
Are you happy yet?
February 8th, 2009 at 8:07 pmThanks for keeping count. Yes sometimes I make typos but I post to you nonsense while working and besides I’m only human. Maybe you can keep track of how many times I “mispell” a word or leave an “e” or leave an “s” of a word also.
I’m glad you have found something to occupy your tiny brain with. OOOPS, did I say “tiny brain”. Sorry that’s a liberal tactic commonly used. You Liberals must be rubbing off on me.
Pleas proof “reed” this one for me. I’m sure I made a “mistale”
February 8th, 2009 at 8:17 pmsomewhere.
Trajan75 IQ Says:
make believe professor j says:\
It’s hard to read some of these posts here. Is your name Trajan or Trojan?
February 8th, 2009 at 8:20 pmAww, Trajan IQ below 75 found out that I’m smarter than him too bad :(
February 8th, 2009 at 8:34 pmTrajan75 IQ Says:
pretend professorj wrote:
It’s hard to read some of these posts here.
Yes, I am sure it is very difficult for someone like you who has a very limited education. Maybe you need to take a remedial English course.
Good one Trojan.
February 8th, 2009 at 8:44 pmHusband: “Honk if you support Canada” He- hey honey, watch this. [honks twice]
February 8th, 2009 at 8:47 pmWife: [looks at him] Oh, we’re supporting unions.
Husband: That’s right; we’re a very progressive couple.
Wife: Yes. [reaches over and honks the horn] Oh, that’s fun!
Husband: Well we’ve done our good deed for the week. I think now I can make love to your anus without making God angry.
Wife: Oh really? Goodie! [they drive off. Ike watches them leave]
Trajan75 IQ Says:
Jeffy:
Are you finally admitting that you are a fraud?
Jeffy? Your a bit confused trojan. Hey do you know what we called a trojan in the army? A rain coat. Yup.
February 8th, 2009 at 8:51 pmYes, I am a freud. -weep- Oh if only I hadn’t busted my ass studying in school graduating with Magna Cum Laude, playing a Div 1 sport, being the President of my college’s ACS, being the treasurer of my college’s SAAC, spending an entire summer doing research at Brown U, spending 4 years in ROTC, getting a M.S. from Georgetown U, and continued to bust my ass in medical school. -weep- Maybe I could have spent my summers sniffing cocaine and getting oral sex from Larry Sinclair, and get my weirdo friends to get me into Harvard Law.
February 8th, 2009 at 8:57 pmNever mind.
February 8th, 2009 at 9:04 pm-WEEP- Please believe me that I was one of the 20,000 medical school students accepted in 2007 -WEEP-
February 8th, 2009 at 9:17 pmMaybe you can read this and then email me…
February 8th, 2009 at 9:19 pmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Hulseboh
Maybe you can facebook me…
February 8th, 2009 at 9:50 pmMy logo is the Obama death star
http://www.facebook.com/people/Hans-Hulsebos/70000852
I’m still waiting…coward
February 8th, 2009 at 9:51 pmI’m still waiting
Coward
February 8th, 2009 at 9:53 pmJeffy,
I showed some samples of your writing to a good friend who is a practicing psychologist. After laughing for a prolonged period, he became very serious. Based on the increasing escalation of your psychotic ravings, he is seriously concerned that you are a danger to yourself and others. He recommends that those who are participating on this thread slowly withdraw, all the while saying soothing things to you.
Got that, everyone? Jeffy needs your help. Say something soothing and agreeable before you leave.
As for me, I take my leave of you now. It’s been interesting.
Get help, Jeffy. Professional help. Hellllllllllllllllllp.
P.S. to the professor: “YOU’RE” is the contractive of YOU ARE, while “YOUR” is a possessive pronominal adjective.
February 8th, 2009 at 9:56 pmYes your “friend” with an A.A. in pychology thats really impressive. Does he give you a reach around when you a laying in bed fantasizing what it must have been like to be Larry Sinclair? Or maybe he’s just not into that much. I have proven to you without a doubt who I am and you think I’m going to be impressed that you are friends with a “psychologist,” a practitioner of a soft science. Does he ask you how you feel when he slips it in you? You are truly a moron. I feel sorry for you but not as sorry as I feel for those troops in Afganistan that Obama promised reinforcements to, he campaigned to send reinforcements, he was going to win in Afganistan. Thats were the “bad guys” were from. Then the media sniffs out his own ineptitude and labels Afganistan his “Vietnam.” You are a coward, he is a coward, and the bums will never win.
February 8th, 2009 at 10:12 pmP.S. to the professor: “YOU’RE” is the contractive of YOU ARE, while “YOUR” is a possessive pronominal adjective.
Thanks but I already knew that. Just lazy on the keyboard.
But then again you are perfect aren’t you?
February 8th, 2009 at 10:37 pmTrajan75 IQ Says:
make believe professor j says:
Your interested in my background?
I am pretty sure I have figured out who you really are and promise to keep it our little secret
No need for secrecy Trojan. Go on tell the world. I don’t mind. My latest favorite phrase, “Go for It”.
February 8th, 2009 at 10:41 pmOOOPS more typos for you.
February 8th, 2009 at 10:43 pm#
#
professorj Says:
Trajan75 IQ Says:
make believe professor j says:
Your interested in my background?
I am pretty sure I have figured out who you really are and promise to keep it our little secret
No need for secrecy Trojan. Go on tell the world. I don’t mind. My latest favorite phrase, “Go for It”.
Don’t tell me, you sat through one of my lectures. Didn’t make the second one though did you?
Just guessing.
February 8th, 2009 at 10:45 pmThats funny because I didn’t even think you thought I was in medical school. Maybe you should look up the HPSP and see what rank someone in the Navy would be in medical school. I’m sure you could do it, after that you can call me Sir.
February 8th, 2009 at 10:50 pmTrajan75 IQ Says:
make believe professorj:
Why don’t you and Jeffy go back to the circle jerk at that lame web site of yours.
I have no idea what your talking about Trojan. I thought this was a free country and If I remember right, and I usually do, there are certain rights given people in this nation that say I can go anywhere I want and say anything I want. You Socialists haven’t changed that yet.
What site would you like me to go to? I visit so many Trojan.
OBTW I have no Idea who Jeffy is but he seems to be holding his own against you Socialist Liberals.
Hey I have an idea. Why don’t you go back through all my posts and see how many times I used the words Liberal and Socialist. I’m kind of curious.
February 8th, 2009 at 11:08 pmHaven’t you got it yet Trojan. I’m here because Your here.
Don’t forget to add that one to your list. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha.
You must have time on your hands. OOOPS can’t count that one can you? You must have time on you’re hands. Hows that. Putz.
February 8th, 2009 at 11:14 pmTrajan75 IQ Says:
pretend professorj says:
What site would you like me to go to?
Why don’t you try Little Green Footballs, I’m sure Charles Johnson would welcome you back with open arms.
Never heard of it. Whats the address I’ll go check it out. Are there ignorant liberals there? If not then I’m not interested. Trojan old boy.
February 8th, 2009 at 11:26 pmNever been there. You keep those delusional thoughts though.
I like it here with you Tards. You keep me amused half the time with your wit. Wait a minute, half wit, I might have hit on something there. Yup I believe I have.
Yup. I’m happy here besides your here. OH SHUKS there I go again. Add that one to your list. Wait a minute did I get that last one correct? I think so Trojan. Didn’t I?
February 9th, 2009 at 12:20 amThat sounds absolutely vomitus. I thought only liberals and frat boys do that kind of stuff.
February 9th, 2009 at 12:39 amJeffrey.
Trojan has lost it. He only knows how to accuse people of nonsense and thinks he can push people around. No substance just crap. Some people refuse to be pushed around, it’s driving him nuts.
Hey Trojan. I’m not intimidated by Liberal jerks such as yourself. Hey did I just say that? (when all else fails, call people names) liberal playbook page 17).
February 9th, 2009 at 9:48 amAt first this was a goof. Now it is just lame. Pretend prof are you on some sort of permanent spring break or something. In the interest of the students it is p robably just as well that you seem to be letting the TA handle things back at Fantasy U.
February 9th, 2009 at 9:51 amdbadass Says:
At first this was a goof. Now it is just lame. Pretend prof are you on some sort of permanent spring break or something. In the interest of the students it is p robably just as well that you seem to be letting the TA handle things back at Fantasy U.
Enjoyed you comment Dickey. You had better take more care in how you type your posts though, Trojan is taking notes on errors.
Liberals, Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha.
I’ll let you in on a little secret. I’m here doing research on Liberal whiners Post Bush. Like I told Trojan, I’m here because your here. OOOP Trojan, I did it again. How many is that now.
I’ll stick around Dickie. I like the giggles you little girls give me. Watch out for those wedgies Dick.
February 9th, 2009 at 11:00 amGee, you noticed that too?
If it weren’t for Senator Claire McCaskill, I would have thought that the Dems had been bared from the Network Doors to counter the Repubs.
Liberal Media? WHAT Liberal Media??
February 9th, 2009 at 12:48 pmlapdogs Says:
Gee, you noticed that too?
If it weren’t for Senator Claire McCaskill, I would have thought that the Dems had been bared from the Network Doors to counter the Repubs.
Liberal Media? WHAT Liberal Media??
Lappy. The election is over. The Dems won. Now back to the real world.
Rasmussen Poll: Only 37% Now Support Existing Stimulus Plan
February 4th, 2009
By JOE GANDELMAN, Editor-In-Chief
Print
Pollsters vary in their findings, and Rasmussen’s polls don’t always agree with Gallup’s — but this clearly shows a steep drop in support for the present incarnation of President Barack Obama’s economic stimulus plan:
Support for the economic recovery plan working its way through Congress has fallen again this week. For the first time, a plurality of voters nationwide oppose the $800-billion-plus plan.
The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that 37% favor the legislation, 43% are opposed, and 20% are not sure.
Two weeks ago, 45% supported the plan. Last week, 42% supported it.
Opposition has grown from 34% two weeks ago to 39% last week and 43% today.
Sixty-four percent (64%) of Democrats still support the plan. That figure is down from 74% a week ago. Just 13% of Republicans and 27% of those not affiliated with either major party agree.
Seventy-two percent (72%) of Republicans oppose the plan along with 50% of unaffiliated voters and 16% of Democrats.
The two main shifts seem to be the continued mobilization of GOPers back to the party line as articulated by members of Congress and talk show hosts. Some will say it shows how easy it is to push a button and turn on the partisanship light. The other is the erosion in support from independent voters.
February 9th, 2009 at 12:59 pmJust as George Bush couldn’t be successful morphing from a Texas governor who was popular among people of both parties, Obama will need to retain his bipartisan appeal to succeed. It has also been evident in recent weeks that — so far, at least — Obama has not used the bully pulpit and all of the tools at his disposal to clamor (not ask) for the bill’s passage and/or to get Democrats to seriously fine tune it and peel off some of the Republican opposition.
Look for a VERY unhappy day at the stock market if this comes to a vote and fails to pass or is fillbustered and doesn’t come to a vote
Prepare yourself. Right after this bill passes there is another bill right behind it. TARP II. Then the appropriations bill and right after that the national parks spending bill.
National health care on and on it’s going to go.
Liberal tax and spend.
Democrat noun= tax and spend and whine.
February 9th, 2009 at 2:43 pm“You are the instruments that God is gonna use to bring about universal change, and that is why Barack has captured the youth. And he has involved young people in a political process that they didn’t care anything about. That’s a sign. When the Messiah speaks, the youth will hear, and the Messiah is absolutely speaking.”
–LOUIS FARRAKHAN
February 9th, 2009 at 5:53 pmhttp://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D96896B00&show_article=1
Thats funny, I never bumped my head boarding hueys in ROTC.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2009/01/28/2009-01-28_hey_bam_thats_not_the_door.html
Dammit, I thought Bush had the monopoly on embarrassing egresses.
February 9th, 2009 at 5:58 pmYour mommy’s frightened of something of mine. But I wont take it out.
February 9th, 2009 at 10:45 pm“You are the instruments that God is gonna use to bring about universal change, and that is why Barack has captured the youth. And he has involved young people in a political process that they didn’t care anything about. That’s a sign. When the Messiah speaks, the youth will hear, and the Messiah is absolutely speaking.”
“Jesus Was a Community Organizer,
Pontius Pilate a Governor”
-Cohen
February 9th, 2009 at 10:50 pm… a light will shine through that window, a beam of light will come down upon you, you will experience an epiphany, and you will suddenly realize that you must go to the polls and vote”
-Barack Obama
“You are the instruments that God is gonna use to bring about universal change, and that is why Barack has captured the youth. And he has involved young people in a political process that they didn’t care anything about. That’s a sign. When the Messiah speaks, the youth will hear, and the Messiah is absolutely speaking.”
–LOUIS FARRAKHAN
“Jesus Was a Community Organizer,
Pontius Pilate a Governor”
-Cohen
“This is bigger than Kennedy. Obama comes along, and he seems to have the answers. This is the new testament.”
-Chris Matthews
“I am confident that we can create a kingdom right here on earth”
-Barack Obama
“I cried all night. I’m going to be crying for the next four years,” he said. “What Barack Obama has accomplished is the single most extraordinary event that has occurred in the 232 years of the nation’s political history. … The event itself is so extraordinary that another chapter could be added to the Bible to chronicle its significance.”
-Jesse Jackson, Jr.
“I’ll do whatever he says to do. I’ll collect paper cups off the ground to make his pathway clear.”
-Halle Berry
“I would characterize the Senate race as being a race where Obama was, let’s say, blessed and highly favored. That’s not routine. There’s something else going on. I think that Obama, his election to the Senate, was divinely ordered. . . . I know that that was God’s plan.”
-Bill Rush
February 10th, 2009 at 10:17 am