Senate centrists’ plan = 600,000 fewer jobs.
Senate centrists’ plan = 600,000 fewer jobs.
The Senate “centrists,” led by Ben Nelson (D-NE) and Susan Collins (R-ME), are cheering the fact that they’ve cut $86 billion in spending from the economy recovery package. “Spending for the states and education took the biggest hit, compared with the House bill. State fiscal stabilization funding was cut back $40 billion, school construction dropped $16 billion, and a proposed $3.5 billion line for higher education construction was zeroed out.” Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman puts those cuts in perspective:
Now the centrists have shaved off $86 billion in spending — much of it among the most effective and most needed parts of the plan. In particular, aid to state governments, which are in desperate straits, is both fast — because it prevents spending cuts rather than having to start up new projects — and effective, because it would in fact be spent; plus state and local governments are cutting back on essentials, so the social value of this spending would be high. But in the name of mighty centrism, $40 billion of that aid has been cut out.
My first cut says that the changes to the Senate bill will ensure that we have at least 600,000 fewer Americans employed over the next two years.
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Let’s hope the House doesn’t go for it come conference committee.
February 7th, 2009 at 7:07 pmIf I recall correctly, Red states receive more, proportionately, from Federal spending than Blue states. All things being equal, then, this will affect Red states more deeply than Blue.
Of course, we know why Republicans do not support funding for higher education. The higher the level of education, the less likely to watch Rush Limpbaugh and the less likely to vote Republican.
February 7th, 2009 at 7:14 pmHow in the world is school construction and higher education construction considered “pork” to Republicans??
So a Republican thinks their child’s education is just pork?? Bizarre mentality, I really hope they don’t get away with irresponsible cuts.
February 7th, 2009 at 7:15 pmThey also cut 2 billion out of broadband which would bring high speed internet to rural communities. Geez, I wonder why they might do that??
February 7th, 2009 at 7:17 pmState fiscal stabilization funding was cut back $40 billion, school construction dropped $16 billion, and a proposed $3.5 billion line for higher education construction was zeroed out.”
Yes, keep ‘em stupid and poor; that way they have less resources to fight us. And if they do decide to fight?
Consider the recent increase in development of crowd control weapons, it’s quite a list!
We’re gradually moving to a martial state, starving the economy and increasing the militarization, in direct violation of the Posse Comitatus act.
Republicans keep edging the country toward revolt.
February 7th, 2009 at 7:19 pmRidiculous. These are not centrists. They are immoderate, mean spirited and totally naive about what will work. Don’t dignify them with labels like centrist and moderate when they are simply tightwads who have no idea of commitment to society and community, but only to their pocketbooks.
February 7th, 2009 at 7:27 pmThanks for the new threads – was really getting stinky downstairs.
February 7th, 2009 at 7:27 pmWell let’s be clear – the folks that brought us and supported dur chimpfurher are certainly no friends of education. It is only through a compliant media and the constant repetition of repug/neocon talking points can they “catapult the propaganda.”
They cannot divide and conquest the masses if folks were empowered to find, read, write, and discuss what is really going on.
The noise machine started their coverage of the economic challenges this nation faces by proclaiming that the Great Depression was FDRs fault – can’t have folks that really understand history if you are going to catapult lies like that.
February 7th, 2009 at 7:31 pmThat was my first take on this list too, particularly the cuts to state aid and school construction, etc. Some of the other stuff I would consider worthy but not necessary in this particular bill. I view this stimulus package as a supplemental appropriation item and with considerable urgency. The other worthy items do not require urgent action and should be included in the proper appropriations bill. The state aid will not add job but it is just as important to keep the current jobs, which is the focus of that aide, making it urgent.
February 7th, 2009 at 7:37 pmThe “centrist” types typically claim to be socially liberal and fiscally conservative, but when a social issue like education needs shoring up–in this case aid to close the gaps in state and local funding–the fiscally-conservative element cancels out the spending, and the social element lags.
February 7th, 2009 at 7:37 pmi was reading the Time Person of the Year issue (i get my mom’s old copies)…
the “Interview” with Barack Obama was great… but, right at the beginning, his answer to the second question (the guy IS amazing if this was with no notes) gave me a start… i thought, jeez, he’s giving the enemies a playbook: ok, here’s what needs obstructing…
When voters look at your Administration two years from now, in the off-year election, how will they know whether you’re succeeding?
I think there are a couple of benchmarks we’ve set for ourselves during the course of this campaign. On [domestic] policy, have we helped this economy recover from what is the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression? Have we instituted financial regulations and rules of the road that assure this kind of crisis doesn’t occur again? Have we created jobs that pay well and allow families to support themselves? Have we made significant progress on reducing the cost of health care and expanding coverage? Have we begun what will probably be a decade-long project to shift America to a new energy economy? Have we begun what may be an even longer project of revitalizing our public-school systems so we can compete in the 21st century? That’s on the domestic front.
[...]
http://www.time.com/time/specials/2008/personoftheyear/article/0,31682,1861543_1865068_1865069,00.html
oh, i know… the enemies already know what to do…
February 7th, 2009 at 7:53 pmand they’re doing it…
centrist = republican dumbas*
February 7th, 2009 at 8:05 pmLook Susan and Ben don’t care about the taxpayers it’s all about the kick back money they get. Maine’s unemployment rate is 7 per cent and going up. Thanks the Senator’s Ben/Susan more people from Maine will lose their jobs and homes and they can thank Susan and Ben. Now notice how Susan and Ben got their big raise in their salary and are laughing at the people they represent who are losing everything. Now don’t forget to pay your tasxes or you’ll go to jail.
February 7th, 2009 at 8:06 pmgitrdone Says:
How in the world is school construction and higher education construction considered “pork” to Republicans??
Until the GOPers get their pet project, school vouchers, in place for their beloved Jesus Schools, all spending on education is considered waste. So short-sighted, so selfish and self-serving, but what else can we expect?
Perhaps they should reread the words of Jesus – “Whatever you do to the least of them, you do to me.”
PEACE
February 7th, 2009 at 8:11 pmlook at this picture… it’s like the gravity of the situation just hit…
and duby can’t wait to get outta there…
http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1872877_1827539,00.html
February 7th, 2009 at 8:12 pmBriseadh na Faire Says:
If I recall correctly, Red states receive more, proportionately, from Federal spending than Blue states. All things being equal, then, this will affect Red states more deeply than Blue.
Overall, Red States are our “welfare states” supported by the Blues. Princess Wasilla’s Alaska ranks #2 (fitting)
http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/ftsbs-20060316.pdf
PEACE
February 7th, 2009 at 8:14 pmObviously, the troll doesn’t know any real Obama supporters — or McCain supporters.
February 7th, 2009 at 8:36 pmI don’t see any way that the School construction money and at least half of the $40B for states doesn’t get reinserted in committee.
I wouldn’t be shocked if some of this stuff was just pulled out to allow Specter, Snowe, and Collins to save some face by voting yes on the bill.
February 7th, 2009 at 8:37 pmLTdan Says:
because deep down we all know republicans are smarter and more aware of a given situation than democrats.
Based on this evidence alone we can laugh off that theory.
February 7th, 2009 at 8:40 pmWe don’t want to save half-a-brain-nuts “centrists.” We want to stimulate STIMULATE the economy you idiots. If we put a halt on repugs lie that cutting taxes for the rich creates more jobs for the poor bs maybe we can get the economy going.
cutting taxes only enriches their profits.
February 7th, 2009 at 8:49 pmYou actually claim that a totally unreasoned argument such as you posted here is going to pass muster? This sounds like the reasoning of an average 17 year old boy. Claims with no supporting reasoning or experiential facts just don’t cut it. In other words, you just wasted space on the Internet and your own time, as no one will be ‘converted’ to your point of view by what you write. Why bother? LOL!
February 7th, 2009 at 8:54 pmLTdan Says:
Even centerists are ” too republican ” for the libs. Just shows how out of touch these people really are. And don’t even give me that ” bush voters don’t like education ” crap, because deep down we all know republicans are smarter and more aware of a given situation than democrats. For instance if you asked somebody why they were voting for McCain, the would give you valid reasons. If you asked your typical obama voter they would simply say “change”.
Ltdan uses republican, education and smarter in the same sentence. Obviously he has gotten into Rush’s Oxy stash. Feeble minds think a one…
February 7th, 2009 at 8:56 pmjjm Says:
Ridiculous. These are not centrists. They are immoderate, mean spirited and totally naive about what will work. Don’t dignify them with labels like centrist and moderate when they are simply tightwads who have no idea of commitment to society and community, but only to their pocketbooks.
Right you are!
repugs are just being hateful, revengeful and full of shit. their cut list doesn’t makes the economy strong, it just shows us how “mean spirited” they are.
We are suppose to spend not cut.
You stupidass repugs don’t know shit. Leave these dumbasses to fight with their tails.
February 7th, 2009 at 8:59 pmMerrill Lynch Economist: Real Unemployment Rate is 13.9%
By Susie Madrak Saturday Feb 07, 2009 2:30pm
Hey, but at least the Republican arsonists have kept the Democratic firetrucks from getting through to put out the fire!
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/merrill-lynch-economist-real-unemploym
February 7th, 2009 at 9:01 pmI’d like to see Ltdan keep on posting. I can’t wait to point the “moderate Republicans” I know his way. There’s a bubble blocking your vision, danny boy… and this bubble is going to be the death of the Limbaugh/Hannity faction of the GOP that’s sucking the rest of the world down with them.
Keep posting. You have a God given right as an American citizen to voice your opinion, Dan!
…never forget that.
February 7th, 2009 at 9:04 pmLike these kind of folks, dan?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itEucdhf4Us
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrnRU3ocIH4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QhJJBfwJME&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf_R3hQGYT4
February 7th, 2009 at 9:09 pmAs corporate losses mount so will the effectiveness of the pundits of misinformation as they lose ad revenue
February 7th, 2009 at 9:10 pmUS Plans New Bank-Capital Injections, Fed Program
Bloomberg – 2 hours ago
By Dawn Kopecki and Rebecca Christie Feb. 7 (Bloomberg) — The Obama administration is considering subjecting banks to a new test to determine whether they require fresh capital injections as part of the rescue plan to be unveiled by Treasury Secretary …
Bailout Needs Some Strings Attached to Limit Pay New York Times
FACTBOX: Where has the US bailout money gone? Reuters
[...]
US linking bank aid to loan changes: sources
February 7th, 2009 at 9:13 pmReuters – 1 hour ago
By Richard Cowan WILLIAMSBURG, Virginia (Reuters) – US Treasury chief Timothy Geithner said on Saturday that banks getting public aid under a new rescue plan must help struggling homeowners by reworking their mortgages, according to Democratic sources.
Video: FDIC Chair on the Economy and Her Friends AssociatedPress
Geithner Says US Financial System Remains ‘Badly Damanged’ Wall Street Journal
because deep down we all know republicans are smarter and more aware of a given situation than democrats. -=Lt Dan=-
Well, I dont think political preference is an indicator of intelligence and it would be a mistake to base an opinion on that assumption.
February 7th, 2009 at 9:16 pmLTdan, here’s another link for ya, bubbleboy. Thank jesus you were here to experience the right wing revolution… friend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_pN2IPAw6E
February 7th, 2009 at 9:18 pmNow we begin to see why taking another 4 to 5 seats in 2010 is important to help Obama clean up after the elephants.
February 7th, 2009 at 9:18 pmUS Plans New Bank-Capital Injections, Fed Program
Bloomberg – 2 hours ago
The banks are flush with capital, but this is not the problem with the economy. The middles class, 70% of the GDP, can no longer consume because of their lack of capital and high debt.
February 7th, 2009 at 9:20 pmLTdan Says:
Even centerists are ” too republican ” for the libs. Just shows how out of touch these people really are.
People who call themselves “centrists” while being Republican moles are too Republican. Lying is bad. And they are pretty damn out of touch if they think they’re doing any good by helping to water the bill down.
.
LTdan Says:
And don’t even give me that ” bush voters don’t like education ” crap,
Bush voters don’t like education. That’s why they consistently vote against policies to promote education.
.
LTdan Says:
because deep down we all know republicans are smarter and more aware of a given situation than democrats.
Hey, look over here! The economy is in the shitter because of deregulation and tax cuts for the rich! You aware of that? Because you don’t seem to be aware of the given situation.
.
LTdan Says:
For instance if you asked somebody why they were voting for McCain, the would give you valid reasons. If you asked your typical obama voter they would simply say “change”.
2008 “Country first!”
2004 “Stay the course!”
2000 “Compassionate conservatism!”
1996 “Experience Counts!”
1992 “Stay the course!”
1988 “Thousand points of light!”
1984 “Greed is Good!”
1980 “Morning in America!”
Any of these sound familiar?
Also, we’re all waiting for these “valid reason” you keep claiming to exist. I haven’t heard one yet.
February 7th, 2009 at 9:23 pmrepugs are just being hateful, revengeful and full of shit. their cut list doesn’t makes the economy strong, it just shows us how “mean spirited” they are.
We have heard the phrase from the obstructionist party: “I hope Obama fails”…and one can imagine the resentment they must fell fearing Obama will become a hero if this recovery bill works…. and this would decrease their numbers further giving them zero power.
Thank you to the very few (R’s) coming forth stating THEY want to put their country first.
February 7th, 2009 at 9:28 pmOne more, danny and then I’m done. I hope to the flying spaghetti monster you hear this…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyyGoPerzWc&feature=related
there’s a part two, too.. use your intellect, kid.
February 7th, 2009 at 9:30 pmLTdan Says:
And don’t even give me that ” bush voters don’t like education ” crap,
Bush voters don’t like education. That’s why they consistently vote against policies to promote education.
How could they continue to repeat history if the public was educated enough to see it?
February 7th, 2009 at 9:31 pmCutting these items seems almost designed to make the recovery fail. (Or is that the Rush Limbaugh plan – after all, he’s already admitted he hopes the country fail)????
$ 86 Billion / 600,000 jobs = $ 14,300 per job.
Then the effect of the money is multiplied as the person with a job spends the money and the money circulates – being spent several times that year. Sounds like the above is money well spent.
*) Building the education infrastructure will have effects for years to come as the person with education makes more and has the resources to contribute to society. Not to mention their kids are also more likely to avail themselves of education.
*) We say we’re an information economy. If so, don’t we need to be educated so we’re not left further in the dust by more educated countries ?
*) Not to mention that if you want to stimulate the economy, you want to put the money where it will be spent quickly. Give a poor man $ 100 and he’ll have to spend it almost instantly to survive. Give $ 100 to Warren Buffet and Bill Gates and it isn’t going to change what they spend or don’t spend.
February 7th, 2009 at 9:40 pmLTdan Says:
And don’t even give me that ” bush voters don’t like education ” crap, because deep down we all know republicans are smarter and more aware of a given situation than democrats.
Sorry, LTdan, but this statement is factually incorrect. Surveys and studies have shown, time and again, especially in recent years (i.e. Bush years), that Republican voters are the least informed voters on many issues. The information they are getting from their primary sources (be it Fox News Channel or Rush Limbaugh and other right-wing radio jocks) is often flat out wrong. (In some cases, deliberately so.)
For instance if you asked somebody why they were voting for McCain, the would give you valid reasons.
How could they? McCain was all over the place throughout his campaign. At one point, some of this advisors had to say that, basically, McCain was not speaking for the McCain campaign. If McCain didn’t know what he was talking about, how could voters give any “valid” reasons for voting for the senile old fart?
February 7th, 2009 at 9:42 pmas for intelligence we have had the supposedly best and brightest make huge and historically repetitive, mistakes over the centuries locking humanity into the same vicious cycles of empire and revolution.
February 7th, 2009 at 9:46 pmPresident Obama recorded a video to speak directly to you about his economic recovery plan.
February 7th, 2009 at 9:52 pmSo, dan. Being inherently dumb has led you to the supposed party of smarts?
You can’t buy smarts, kid. You have to work on it… like rolling up your shirt sleeves, getting down into the muck and making a go at it! If you were a “true conservative” you may have been raised with this ethic… but no, you’re a bubble boy.
Look, guy.. listening to talk radio doesn’t make you a man. In fact it makes you look like a boy looking for a dad.
February 7th, 2009 at 9:56 pm” The whole fabric of society will go to wrack if we really lay hands of reform on our rotten institutions. From top to bottom the whole system is a fraud, all of us know it, laborers and capitalists alike, and all of us are consenting parties to it.”– Henry Adams, American historian, 1838-1918
It is TIME to lay on the hands and reform the rotten institutions.
February 7th, 2009 at 9:59 pmI have no degree in economics (I took the dreaded ECO 101 in school whose only purpose was to funnel some money to the Eco. Dept.
February 7th, 2009 at 10:10 pmDispite my weak economic background, the school of hard knocks has taught me a bit. If I were unemployed, I would be frugal to the nth degree. If employed, I would be more free with my money.
When the dynamics of a tax rebate on the unemployed versus the employed, the unemployed person would hoard it for the most benefit while the employed person would either place it in savings, pay off a debt or let it flow with the tide.
If you give someone a job, they will most likely use it for day to day expenses as well as an occasional extravegance. In this case, the money quickly enters the economy and spurs the creation of new jobs within the general population. When jobs are created, government income from income and entitlement taxes also increase.
Money passed on as a tax reduction or rebate is not taxed until after it is spent by the recipient. Money passed on in order to create jobs is taxed when it is earned as wages and when it is spent by the new wage earner and on down the line. At the very worst, the feds get back the 14% of the entitlement taxes on wages. Some money is also funneled to state and local governments through whatever taxes they may have in place. Ignoring the taxes, there is an additional benefit to the government in that people are removed from the welfare or unemployment rolls.
Cutting these items seems almost designed to make the recovery fail. (Or is that the Rush Limbaugh plan – after all, he’s already admitted he hopes the country fail)????
$ 86 Billion / 600,000 jobs = $ 14,300 per job.
Maple, That is a flawed formula because it ignores the multiplying effect the spending will have on GDP. I defer to Dr Krugman, and Dean Baker discussing the false purported jobs/ cost formula when it was used by the media and GOP in order to discredit the plan:
em>Baker:
-
Krugman
February 7th, 2009 at 10:27 pm
LTdan Says:
You are an ignorant troll. If we ask you ANYTHING you will give us the rerun of the Rush Limbaugh show. Take a hike moron. Your spewage of ignorant nonsense has no connection with reality
February 7th, 2009 at 10:40 pmTrue to form, the GOP continues to regard any spending as “pork” that does not directly end up in the pockets of corporate America or the ultra-wealthy.
Tax breaks do NOT result in more jobs. Total myth perpetuated by the GOP for the past 30 years.
Leading economists (both liberal and conservative) agree that tax breaks will do little to stimulate the economy, but federal spending on infrastructural projects, assistance for the unemployed and those facing foreclosure, and funding for vocational training and other forms of education will have the biggest positive impact.
We need to remember that, from the perspective of the Republicans in Congress, if Obama is unsuccessful with his efforts at rejuvenating the economy, it is a positive outcome with respect to their prospects during the next election cycle.
It is a matter of self-preservation; they simply do not have the interests of the American public at heart.
February 7th, 2009 at 11:00 pmHelp!! My gag reflex is on overdrive as tsunamis of nausea overwhelm me. I think I blew a circuit watching those human anal fissures Susan Collins and Ben Nelson preen and smirk with self-important sanctimony at their elevation to imperial commanders of the Stimulus negotiations by the mentally retarded, lobotomized media droolers who control our access to information.
Their proposed spending cuts are precisely in the areas that will have the most immediate benefits to the economy: Education(to avoid teacher, staff and supplier layoffs), aid to states (to prevent firemen, cops and all manner of public employees from job cuts), transit (so that if there are still any jobs left the few remaining employed can actually get to work) and energy efficiency (immediate money for insulating and retrofitting public buildings), not to mention programs like Head Start and food stamps (money that will be immediately spent in local stores).
All of their proposed cuts added together aren’t even a third of what we just shoveled into the greedy maw of Bank of America- none of which was returned into the economy through loans or anything else.
Of course, the Defense sector will see a big increase in their proposal, at the expense of those worthless working and poor people.
If this is what we can expect from bipartisanship, then we need to bury that outmoded concept in the same dung heap as corporate welfare, supply side economics and preventive war.
February 7th, 2009 at 11:16 pmThis bill should NOT be passed as it currently stands. Obama doesn’t get to chide the Republicans for their economic history and then allow the stimulus bill to be turned into a huge giveaway to the rich and corporations. This is a mess and a disaster waiting to hit us all.
February 7th, 2009 at 11:23 pmThere can be no pork in any bill, screams all the foolish Congressmen.
But I bet if you sold all kinds of pork sandwiches at lunchtime outside the Capitol Building, you’d be privy to state secrets by the end of the week.
It takes a cannibal to know a cannibal.
February 7th, 2009 at 11:32 pmI remember the lie repugs tried to push that President Obama is a moderate repug oppose to not being a liberal/progressive.
I see that didn’t last too long.
February 7th, 2009 at 11:34 pmrepugs want the US to look like Katrina hit it.
February 8th, 2009 at 12:28 amMapleStreet Says:
Cutting these items seems almost designed to make the recovery fail. (Or is that the Rush Limbaugh plan – after all, he’s already admitted he hopes the country fail)????
In 1976, Gerald Ford handed off to Jimmy Carter one of the worst economies in modern history. It was the first time recorded when both inflation and unemployment were on the rise at the same time. There was an energy crisis – not just high prices, but actual lack of product, such that gas stations literally had no gas.
Unfortunately, Carter was a nice guy and wanted to be bipartisan, so he ended up with all of his proposals watered down by Congressional Republicans. And the economy grew only slightly over the next four years. Guess what happened in 1980?
So yeah, I think Republicans would like to see a repeat of that performance.
If they can kneecap this bill so that we remain mired in whatever economic hell the Republicans have prepared for us, then there’s a very good chance that come 2012, enough voters will get tired of watching Obama try and fail to fix it that they’ll just vote the other way.
Of course they’ll sell it as the “new voice of the Republican party,” rather than the same people who caused and maintained the problem. Probably a far-right-wing populist. Maybe even somebody like Reagan, who in the 1976 primary was seen as a no-brain, gimmicky, ridiculous, radically right-wing candidate.
Youbetcha and therefore also…
February 8th, 2009 at 12:48 amspanky1984,
It’s not necessary to repeat your same comment on every single thread. We get it. Thank you.
February 8th, 2009 at 1:10 amNCLB cut.
Good.
February 8th, 2009 at 1:56 amFrom what I have read, there is almost 60 billion in tax breaks for the upper 20% of americans.
If there is a place to cut, then there.
February 8th, 2009 at 4:46 amSince Im older than most of you young progressives I have a better feel for what is going to probably happen this year, as I was a youngster during the halcyon 60s? I witnessed the death of three very important people to this country
February 8th, 2009 at 5:32 amJFK
MLK
RFK
setting off the rise of the hippies and the generation that faught its own Goverment for the truth and equal protection under the law,”subjective” and equal rights?, again “subjective” sadly it is US that you must confront for our negligence to pass off to you a decent govt, for it is our greed that has fostered this mess, those wanna be hippies at Woodstock,”yes I was there, Monterrey Pop Festival, Universial Life Picnic,and others also at the Democratic convention in 68 getting my ass kicked by Daly’s Blue Bonnets in Daly Park.
Thier greed overwhelmed them and it has never stopped, the same philosophy that embolden Reagan is still the Politics Du Jour,
You now have to take to the streets to get your voices heard are you up to the task ahead, or are like the wanna be hippies that went to work for Major Corporations and became the establishment, we used to call them plastic people and it stil the proper metaphor for them, they are indeed plastic orientated, look at the mess they have created.
By the end of summmer things will be really bubbling and what will send this seething Calderon of hot humanity off?
Graduating colledge students? students not being able to go to colledge? not being able to find jobs? because there a literally thousands upon thousands competing for minuet openings that haven’t already been given to a forgien bastard working for cheaper wages.
stop running your mouths and peckering a key board, your duty in this world is to help one another not destroy each other at the whim of the minority whose loud mouths dictate your well being and or lack there of.
“Carter was a nice guy and wanted to be bipartisan, so he ended up with all of his proposals watered down by Congressional Republicans. And the economy grew only slightly over the next four years.”
Nu uh!
Job Growth Per Year Under Most Recent Presidents:
February 8th, 2009 at 6:01 amJohnson 3.8%
Carter 3.1
Clinton 2.4
Kennedy 2.3
Nixon 2.3
Reagan 2.1
Bush 0.6
And we fear the Communists on the left and Islamo-fascists on the right but the enemy of the worker doing the most damage is hiding right in our midst!
February 8th, 2009 at 8:46 amWTF-ever!
February 8th, 2009 at 9:23 amIt’s a shame we have not made the Retardlicans fully irrelevant.
There also appears to be another teeny flaw in the tax cut stuff. We have unemployment rising at a rate that resembles Suicide Hill compared to the other recessions which means lots fewer folks paying payroll taxes. Now if you give the remaining workers a tax cut, that means even less.
It’s a question of basic cash flow. The government receives a huge wad of cash every payday, sort of an interest free loan. Megabuck types generally pay quarterly and we all know how good they are a working the loop holes.
Tax cuts=Red Bull (Short burst of illusory energy followed by major system let down…sounds like the past few decades)
February 8th, 2009 at 10:26 amIMHO , the only Americans who consistantly pay EVERY PENNY they owe in Taxes are Working People….because the Govt. Consistantly takes Witholding Taxes out of their Paychecks.
As has been well demonstrated by Obama’s rejected Nominees, the Tax Code is So Complicated and So Arcane, that the people who Wrote the Tax Laws can’t even figure it out!
I believe they refer to it as “Honest Mistakes”.
February 8th, 2009 at 11:01 amIf you believe all these people really made a mistake in their taxes, then you have no brain yourself.
February 8th, 2009 at 11:07 amWas this comment calculated to initiate a “real conversation”?
“Cause I gotta say, it’s not working for me.
February 8th, 2009 at 11:19 amDearest jeanette,
They most certainly DID make a Mistake. That’s why they ended up Writing A check to the Govt.
Were they HONEST Mistakes?? That would Involve Mind Reading and Speculation…neither you nor I Know for sure.
And would you consider Incorrectly accusing Posters of having No Brain as some of that Hatred you accuse “sweet Liberals” of generating??
February 8th, 2009 at 11:31 am45 Dru P
I agree with you. Look at my post and you’ll see that after the simple division, I then refer to the multiplying effect on the economy.
February 8th, 2009 at 6:33 pmBadger Says:
IMHO , the only Americans who consistantly pay EVERY PENNY they owe in Taxes are Working People….because the Govt. Consistantly takes Witholding Taxes out of their Paychecks.
As has been well demonstrated by Obama’s rejected Nominees, the Tax Code is So Complicated and So Arcane, that the people who Wrote the Tax Laws can’t even figure it out!
I believe they refer to it as “Honest Mistakes”.
I would be inclined to agree with you on this one but for one exception. The people that he worked for continually told him that he had to pay taxes.
Yes he was told and he was even given the forms to declare his taxes. Now forgetting to pay any taxes for 6 or 8 years might tip you off to what really happened.
How many years have you forgotten to pay your taxes?
February 8th, 2009 at 9:30 pmMapleStreet Says:
Cutting these items seems almost designed to make the recovery fail. (Or is that the Rush Limbaugh plan – after all, he’s already admitted he hopes the country fail)????
The quote was something like this. I hope Obama fails. Then he went on to say that the Liberal policies that the Democrats are planning go against the principals conservatism and are contrary to Capitalism. He never said he “hopes the country fails”.
No offense but the person who said they heard it from a person who said he heard it from a person who works at Media Matters, got it wrong.
If your going to slam a person you should know what your talking about. Or you can go on with your Liberal nonsense. Your surrounded by people who think like you do. No one saw fit to point this out to you. Isn’t it nice to have your ignorance supported by the people who you associate with?
You will never say anything wrong. Next take a lesson in economics. You might understand what is happening here.
February 8th, 2009 at 9:39 pmBadger Says:
Dearest jeanette,
They most certainly DID make a Mistake. That’s why they ended up Writing A check to the Govt.
Were they HONEST Mistakes?? That would Involve Mind Reading and Speculation…neither you nor I Know for sure.
And would you consider Incorrectly accusing Posters of having No Brain as some of that Hatred you accuse “sweet Liberals” of generating??
Badger I have to point out a simple fact to you. The Liberal hate against Republicans that you say doesn’t exist here is actually very rampant. I use the posts of your fellow Liberals as my evidence to support this statement. A quick count and a quick read of the posts here is all you need to do. I don’t accuse those posters of having no brains though. I accuse them of not using their brains very well. How else can you justify the nonsense that they post.
February 8th, 2009 at 9:49 pmBusinesses are seeing a repeat of the 1929 to 1933 period, during which unemployment rose to over 25 percent.
Rising unemployment, whether in the public or private sectors, cuts into the client base of many small to medium-sized privately-owned businesses.
As the client base shrinks so does the revenues shrink of many small to medium-sized businesses, leading to small to medium-sized business owners thinking about laying off workers…which only exacerbates the problem by swelling the ranks of the unemployed…shrinking the consumer/client base even further…squeezing even more small to medium-sized businesses…leading to even more layoffs…increasing the number of unemployed…etc. etc. etc….a vicious business cycle…that adversely affects all privately-owned businesses, including those small to medium-sized ones owned by Republicans.
If the U.S. Chamber of Commerce is for the Democrat’s/Obama’s economic stimulus package, then they must be getting an earful from state and local chambers of commerce, who realize that rising unemployment levels is bad news for everyone. This trend must be stopped or a whole lot of small to medium-sized businesses, owned by whomever of whatever party affiliation, will be severely hurt and probably go out of business, a repeat of what happened between 1929 and 1933.
Paulson’s FORTUNE 500 upper-management bail-out plan didn’t stop the widespread job loss bleeding, revenue shrinking and small business squeezing in states and communities across America.
Most distressed state governors, except for three Republican governors in the South, are calling for massive injections of federal money into their states, just like the U.S. Chamber of Commerce is advocating.
Tax cuts, by themselves, will not reverse what has been set in motion. In fact, tax cuts are the equivalent of Paulson’s FORTUNE 500 giveaway program, essentially a tax rebate program for those already with a lot of money.
Only massive government spending directed at the lowest economic tier, you know, the consumer/small-business-customer base, will have a chance of stopping and reversing this vicious business cycle.
In my view, President Obama’s economic recovery plan doesn’t go far enough, either in its original or revised form. But compromising with the congressional Republicans, and a few so-called “centrist” Democrats, who helped cause this mess in the first place, by heeding their call to up tax cuts while slashing revenue spending, can only make matters worse.
Remember, the only way to stop what is happening is to find some way to maintain current job levels (no more jobs lost, no more shrinking of small business revenues) by creating jobs across the board, in states and communities across America. Only after this is done can job creation occur to offset the jobs already lost. Call this revenue-sharing between our federal government and us “socialism” if you want to, but a massive infusion of federal funds into state and local communities (into workers pockets and small business tills) is the only thing that will work right now…which apparently some Republicans don’t want to see happen because it might make President Obama look good…making each day that passes, as unemployment skyrockets, look more and more like any day between 1929 and 1933.
Gee, maybe this is what has gotten even the U.S. Chamber of Commerce spooked?
February 8th, 2009 at 10:38 pmProfessorj,
I never said (wrote) that “Liberal hate against Republicans doesn’t exist here”…It is pretty Obvious that it does.
IMHO Republicans Deserve Most of it…but I agree with you..it is best to present arguments more Maturely and tactfully.
My definition of Tact is …the art of making a point Without Making an Enemy.
I appreciate your comments regarding the Tax Issue..you are Probably right…but think it’s impossible to be SURE without being a mind reader.
If I was going in for Brain Surgery (jeanette notwithstanding) , I would rather have a competent and experienced surgeon who may have fudged his Taxes, than someone who is paragon of virtue but not of surgery. I think you can get my drift here.
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