Rep. Steve Austria: FDR caused the Great Depression.
Rep. Steve Austria: FDR caused the Great Depression.
In recent days, conservatives have been trying to block the economic recovery package by arguing that government spending will wreck the American economy. As an example, they point to FDR and the Great Depression. Earlier this month, for instance, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) inaccurately argued that the New Deal “exacerbated the Great Depression.” In a new interview with the Columbus Dispatch, Rep. Steve Austria (R-OH) joined in:
“When (President Franklin) Roosevelt did this, he put our country into a Great Depression,” Austria said. “He tried to borrow and spend, he tried to use the Keynesian approach, and our country ended up in a Great Depression. That’s just history.”
The Columbus Dispatch then notes, “Most historians date the beginning of the Great Depression at or shortly after the stock-market crash of 1929; Roosevelt took office in 1933.” As Dean Baker has explained, “Roosevelt’s New Deal Agenda lowered the unemployment rate from 25 percent in 1933 to 10 percent in 1937.” The economy turned bad again when the “Blue Dogs of the Roosevelt era won sway and got Roosevelt to cut spending and raise taxes.”
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“When (President Franklin) Roosevelt did this, he put our country into a Great Depression,” Austria said. “He tried to borrow and spend, he tried to use the Keynesian approach, and our country ended up in a Great Depression. That’s just history.”
I for one applaud the boldness with which the right wing is exposing its ignorance.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:02 pmAnd the South won the Civil War.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:04 pmAnd we’re all Nazis…
The mighty O needs to take more of FDR’s strategy sand spend even more on the poor and disadvantaged in our country and around the world. It;s the only way.
http://www.sunstateactivist.org/ssablog/
February 11th, 2009 at 12:06 pmAnd Hoover was the great savior of the economy, witness all those Hoovervilles set up in his honor.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:07 pmI try not to make comments based on the physical appearance of newsmakers in the photos TP chooses, but…
does this guy look like there’s nothing going on behind those eyes, or what???
February 11th, 2009 at 12:08 pmThis is why they want to curtail spending on education. They are terrified someone might actually know something about history. It’s much more fun blathering than actually saying something.
While you’re at it Stevie, tell people how FDR was responsible for WWI too.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:08 pmMaybe they should offer a remedial History course in Congress.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:08 pmAlthough I generally like living here, sometimes I think Ohio should change its slogan to “The Fart of It All”.
Boehner
February 11th, 2009 at 12:09 pmJoe the Plumber
Austria
ad nauseum
Sorry, Art, they want to cut spending on Special Ed.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:09 pmralph says;
Now that you mention it, his eyes do look like a couple of piss holes.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:09 pmdoes this guy look like there’s nothing going on behind those eyes, or what???
He’s a shark.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:10 pmThis “FDR caused the Great Depression” talking point really is pure Big Lie politics. It’s astounding to see such dishonestly accepted as just another hardline Republican political stance. It’s not hardline, it’s ridiculous.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:10 pm“That’s just history.”
It is if you studied at the Limbaugh Institute.
http://jackrabbitcafe.blogspot.com/2009/02/moscow-backs-roosevelt.html
February 11th, 2009 at 12:10 pmThis kid’s just earning his stripes in the gop jungle-army, by leaving NO LIE UNTOLD.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:11 pmMaybe they should tattoo the word “moron” on his forehead – just in case it is not immediately obvious.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:12 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
does this guy look like there’s nothing going on behind those eyes, or what???
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Where I come from, we call that the “Howdy Doody Look”, ralph.
I know it’s not even noon yet, PST, but I think we have our winner of “The Stupidest Comment of the Day Award”!!!
There’s always a chance BOOOOOOhner, or Beck, or some other feckless moron will come up w/ something better, but right now, this knuckle head as the look of a WINNER about him!
February 11th, 2009 at 12:12 pmWhat’s up with all these right wingers and their plastic hair? (I’m looking at you Sean Hannity)
February 11th, 2009 at 12:12 pmI’m pretty sure one of our trolls already tried that gambit.
Still, no reason why a member of the US House of Representatives can take his cue from an internet troll, is there?
February 11th, 2009 at 12:14 pmProof positive that ties should be outlawed. They constrict the flow of blood to the brain and make people say incredibly stupid things. They also cause the ricture like grimace and often pop eyes.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:15 pmOh, my bad, Hoodathunk — the troll I had in mind tried to claim that FDR “got us into” the Second World War, not the First as you suggested.
But for a wingnut, even claiming FDR was responsible for the first one is no real stretch.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:17 pmBullsmith Says:
It’s not hardline, it’s ridiculous.
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And fascinating to see how quickly their lies are metastasizing. Just a couple of weeks ago, they were claiming FDR simply failed to solve the problem. Now, he’s also responsible for creating it. Prolly just a plot on Soros’ part to seize control of the planet from the righteous GOOPers and build a world-wide welfare state.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:17 pmAustria huh?? I suppose he likes Austrian economics, then?
February 11th, 2009 at 12:18 pmHe was obviously educated at Patrick Henry College. When all else fails, change history to suit your purposes.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:18 pmThe AmeriTaliban insurgents don’t need to be mired down with facts when they have media willing to broadcast their ignorance without questions.
Applicants must pass a test to gain citizenship. Shouldn’t something like that apply to congress, too?
PEACE
February 11th, 2009 at 12:18 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
While you’re at it Stevie, tell people how FDR was responsible for WWI too.
I’m pretty sure one of our trolls already tried that gambit.
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WW I? Wouldn’t that have been Wilson’s fault?
The trolls have tried claiming Roosevelt STARTED WW II, a couple of times now.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:19 pmThey can say anything, their constituents don’t know any better.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:19 pmLimbaugh Party thinking is– “what good is history if you can’t revise it to suit your needs? After all, who’s going to bother to check, right?” This is just another entry on the obstructionists practice of the Big Lie Theory.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:22 pmIf you follow the links, you’ll discover that the Columbus Post-Dispatch did a pretty efficient job of dispatching (sorry for the pun) this laughable talking point.
Kudos to Darrel Rowland for noting the Congressman’s ideologically-driven ignorance of history.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:22 pmSigh…maybe I should have said the Civil War.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:22 pmAh, Repukes rewriting history as RUSH the Dominican Republic Boy Prostitutes Abuser tells them it is…
…they must all get together and decide what line of lies they think they can get away with…
…seems how the FOX viewing audience is so well informed on everything.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:24 pmHoodathunk Says:
Sigh…maybe I should have said the Civil War.
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Oh Lordy… be careful, or you’ll summons JDavis…
Hmmm… do I hear a banjo in the distance, playing Dixie… badly?
February 11th, 2009 at 12:26 pmNow THAT would have been just absurd enough to make your point.
Although… wasn’t Teddy alive at that point…? maybe we’d best go back to the French and Indian War, just to be safe. These trolls are resourceful critters.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:28 pmApparently, the Republicans have not been successful at destroying public education as a whole system, so they are feverishly attempting to destroy science, language arts, math, and history one subject at a time.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:28 pmWhen all else fails, and the last eight years proved that for the GOP all else did fail, just start throwin’ sh#t at the wall to see what might stick. Hum along – “how low can you go – how low can you go.”
February 11th, 2009 at 12:29 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
If you follow the links, you’ll discover that the Columbus Post-Dispatch did a pretty efficient job of dispatching (sorry for the pun) this laughable talking point.
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There wasn’t enough personal invective in that rebuttal, ralph.
Sheesh… a comment THIS F-IN’ STUPID calls for at least one “Rep Austria, You G-damned twit”,,, or sumpin’ to that effect.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:29 pmIt wasn’t New Deal programs that exacerbated the Great Depression as much as it was the Federal Reserve’s monetary policy.
Ben Bernanke even admits this.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:31 pmNo wonder Joe the Plummer says he can run for Political Office. Our Elected Officials are showing they don’t even know resent US History. At lease he’s allow his district to see they have an uneduated person representing them. He is one reason the education in the US is rated so low. When a foreign student at the age of 7 can explain the Great Depression and the New Deal and Rep. Steve Austria can’t I say Houston We Have A Problem.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:32 pmFebruary 11th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
BreadHarritty Says:
He was obviously educated at Patrick Henry College. When all else fails, change history to suit your purposes.
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I dunno… you could also make a strong case for Regent U here too. I detect the same vacuous quality Monica Goodling had about her too.
Any chance the Hon Mr Austria is a pround fundie, to boot? I mean, if you can convince yourself the Earth might really be only 6.000 yrs old… this isn’t that much of a stretch.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:33 pmHoly Crap! How do these people get elected?? The GOP just brings in robots, fills their empty heads with Limbaugh tapes, winds ‘em up and lets ‘em go … Wow, this is ASTONISHING!!
FDR caused the depression that started during Republican Hoover’s term?? My God … 50 years from now, the GOP will be saying the same about this economic disaster: Obama started it!!
February 11th, 2009 at 12:34 pmJackie Says:
No wonder Joe the Plummer says he can run for Political Office.
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Ya know, both you AND Joe have a point. If someone like Austria can get elected…
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Our Elected Officials are showing they don’t even know resent US History.
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Lordy, they sure do seem to RESENT US history. Why else would they keep trying to mash, crush, distort, and generally deny it every chance they get?
February 11th, 2009 at 12:35 pmIt was (R)Hoover tinkering with the economy that exacerbated the problem.
The fact is the financial elite WANT to create booms and busts for wealth creation. Madoff [Wall] street accomplishes that.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:35 pmralph the wonder llama Says:maybe we’d best go back to the French and Indian War, just to be safe. These trolls are resourceful critters.
Then we better use the Punic Wars. I think they used elephants.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:37 pmI didn’t think the stupid could burn any more than it already does. Seems I was mistaken.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:39 pmHEY!!! TRUTH FIRST!!!!
Mickey Mouse started WW I.
Little Orphan Annie started WW II.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:39 pmmk3872 Says:
My God … 50 years from now, the GOP will be saying the same about this economic disaster: Obama started it!!
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If I’m not mistaken, they’re already claiming it.
24 NOVEMBER 2008
Obama Depression: More Speculation
“If Obama does what he promised, the US and world economies will be extremely stressed for decades to come, with minimal chance for a true recovery until Obamonomics is repealed. ”
http://alfin2100.blogspot.com/2008/11/obama-depression-more-speculation.html
February 11th, 2009 at 12:40 pmThe flu is caused by little invisible demons that fly up your nose when it is cold out.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:40 pmCan we use Rep Austria on a billboard poster to use to provide more funding for public education???
February 11th, 2009 at 12:40 pmThere’s too much deliberate avoidance of well written history and documentation of the Great Depression for the right wing to be ignorant on this matter. Fact is, they truly hate Roosevelt’s accomplishments because they illustrate that properly run “big” government can work, and work well.
The right wing is actually lying deliberately about the subject. They make up and flesh out these lies up in their closed door strategy meetings – usually held in some equivalent to a deep and dark cellar. They know that a certain percentage of low information voters will believe them, and they use these unfortunates to maintain their power and dreams of a true oligarchy someday happening in the US.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:41 pmDisturbing trend/meme:
Republicans (mostly) tacking on the phrase “that’s just history” or “that’s just historical fact” to completely false statements of invented history in order to stop the questioning of those statements.
Thankfully, this publication called Austria on his “history” and presented the real facts. Why did this person believe he could get away with stating blatant inaccuracies that are so easily disproved? That’s the real question.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:41 pmI for one applaud the boldness with which the right wing is exposing its ignorance.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
I suppose you’ve noticed that egregious exercies in mis and mal-information may be notable for some several seconds, but that there is almost no residual opprobrium or embarrassment from these ignoran, lying pieces of shit…
February 11th, 2009 at 12:42 pmmk3872 Says:My God … 50 years from now, the GOP will be saying the same about this economic disaster: Obama started it!!
Bless you for thinking that 50 years from now there will be enough of us still around to even have the debate.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:42 pmWe need a Constitutional amendment, requiring anyone running for public office to pass a basic American history exam.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:42 pmHow many lines of utter BS are these self-proclaimed traitorous American Taliban Insurgent Goopers going to pull out of unmentionable orifices to attempt to “catapult the propoganda” for their partizan raids upon America? I can’t even keep up with the last 3 weeks of the lies and distortions and distractions (which, by the by, IS THE ‘plan’).
Where is there accountability for this? When I was a wee nipper in school, telling lies of any kind for any purpose was PUNISHED. But now, THIS is the EXAMPLE they wish to set? Tell lies when it is expedient and serves your agenda? I would actually have some kind of respect if they just would NOT lie and admit their actual goals and means — but then I suppose that they are clearly aware that the vast majority of the public would NOT support them then. Their base believe the lies, every time.
And they are trying to link EVERYTHING wrong in America (i.e. failed conservative policies) to Obama. Not much is sticking, yet, but they hope that if they keep it up, drop one topic go to the next, then eventually go back to the first topic, so it all just cycles around and around until some people start to beleive it just because they keep hearing it (and from different outlets).
They don’t hate history, really. They hate America, and espescially American citizens. To them, WE are the ONLY enemy.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:49 pmmk3872 Says:
Can we use Rep Austria on a billboard poster to use to provide more funding for public education???
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And birth control, while we’re at it.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:49 pma newspaper fact-checked a republican?!?!?!?!?!!
February 11th, 2009 at 12:49 pmThis guy looks like Howdy Doody and Alfred E. Neumann met in a petri dish in a cloning lab.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:49 pmThe real problem seems to be that history is malleable. Winners get to write most of it. Losers rewrite it as it suits their needs.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:49 pmpaz3 Says:
“… usually held in some equivalent to a deep and dark cellar.”
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Such as a bathroom stall in the mens’ room of an airport somewhere?
February 11th, 2009 at 12:51 pmHere, here! And an MMPI.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:54 pmFebruary 11th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
I’m in favor for such a requirement before people vote.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:55 pmWas it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
February 11th, 2009 at 12:56 pmWe need to find a fierce little old lady (95 years old and sharp as a tack) who lived through the depression, to read this idiot the riot act and put him in his place. I’d pay money to see it.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:57 pmPeter C Says:
We need to find a fierce little old lady (95 years old and sharp as a tack) who lived through the depression, to read this idiot the riot act and put him in his place. I’d pay money to see it.
And will she be allowed to “sternly modify his potential outlook” with her Zimmer walking frame?
February 11th, 2009 at 12:59 pmwwew Says:
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
I… ummm….
….
…Japan…..
…..
….
February 11th, 2009 at 1:01 pmwwew Says:
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
HA! Just sprayed my laptop with coffee on that one.
It was over either then or when we dropped the A-Bomb on Berlin.
February 11th, 2009 at 1:04 pmNO! See, WW II never happened. it was not a world war, it was an oppressive overthrow of a conservative foreign soverign nation: loyal patriots to their flag and leader, who would do anything to support their political party. A nation with many many fierce patriots that was obscenely bullied by bleeding-heart, liberal, wishy-washy, anti-corporate type of scumbags.
Oh, did I mention that the American Republican party fully suppoted them, both in word and in money?
What was the name of that poor, downtrodden little country just trying to pull itself up by the bootstraps and make a few bucks through their military industry?……?
February 11th, 2009 at 1:05 pmI always thought Ronnie Reagan and John Wayne won WWII.
February 11th, 2009 at 1:06 pmRep. Austria has racoon eyes, looks like he partied hard with speed the night before they took that picture. Just another ignorant idiot wannabe.
February 11th, 2009 at 1:10 pmThe Great Depression was a time when liberals ran naked in the streets singing and dancing while the poor republicnas suffered in misery. And all those liberal scum laughed at the starving republicans and spat on them, and then ate vegemite sandwiches and slurped down Starbucks coffee. That’s just historical fact.
February 11th, 2009 at 1:10 pmoh,, and James Stewart provided the soundtrack
February 11th, 2009 at 1:11 pmCagey at #43… you ain’t helping, you scamp! LOL!
February 11th, 2009 at 1:11 pmThis is a good example of why our political system is headed for failure. Too few Americans know enough about our own history, and when right-wingers like Austria here pull facts out of the air too few of us actually know what the truth is.
Ignorance will be our downfall. Our entire democratic republic depends upon an informed and educated voter base. When the know-nothings become the majority, we end up electing people like Austria to represent us. And it snowballs and snowballs …..
Republicans have literally tried to re-write history since they lost power over Congress and the White House. Down is up, black is white, and war is peace.
Unless we as a nation have an intellectual reawakening, we’re doomed.
February 11th, 2009 at 1:12 pmWay to go, homeschool.
February 11th, 2009 at 1:18 pmDo the Republicans perceive the implications of this meme–that the American people were too stupid to realize FDR had made things worse? Rhetorical question.
February 11th, 2009 at 1:18 pmRepublicans think if they keep repeating the same lie,at the end, people might believe it.
February 11th, 2009 at 1:32 pmCagey,
“And will she be allowed to “sternly modify his potential outlook” with her Zimmer walking frame?”
I’d pay even more money to see that!
February 11th, 2009 at 1:32 pmYour modern GOP. I think they are liars…
February 11th, 2009 at 1:34 pmThe Republicans regard the working class as the enemy. FDRs policies helped the people, not the aristocracy, and they’ve never forgiven him for it. The problems in today’s economy are a direct result of the upward wealth transfer begun under Reagan, the Father of Homelesness.
February 11th, 2009 at 1:38 pmSomeone please tell me how the Iraq invasion is not considered ‘government spending’ ?
February 11th, 2009 at 1:40 pmSomehow the never ending billions thrown at that little pet project with no oversight has just been alllll forgotten.
While they’re at it maybe they can also explain to me how tax cuts for the wealthiest among us and the record profit making corporations does not also equate to government spending ?
They don’t have one leg to stand on when it comes to debate on this subject. Hack, spit.
Can you say “ditto head”?
February 11th, 2009 at 1:43 pmJust more of the pre-1929 mindset from the new Hoovers of the Republican Party.
February 11th, 2009 at 1:45 pmPhoto Caption: Hi! I’m an idiot!
February 11th, 2009 at 1:46 pmCrackpot!
February 11th, 2009 at 1:46 pm__________
So FDR, who took office in 1933, began using a Keynesian approach?
That’s rather funny, since Keynes didn’t actually publish The General Theory of Employment, Interest, and Money until 1936 and it didn’t actually start influencing American policy until the early 1940s.
But do go on, Rep. Austria. No, really. You have a real handle on this “history” stuff.
February 11th, 2009 at 1:54 pmOld Unk; The filthy rich really DO consider FDR a traitor to his class.
February 11th, 2009 at 1:54 pmlm945 Says:
We need a Constitutional amendment, requiring anyone running for public office to pass a basic American history exam.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
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I’d like to see this requirement expanded to anyone running for adulthood, but I’m not holding my breath.
February 11th, 2009 at 1:55 pmWow, this creepy little dude is wicked stupid.
One of the greatest things about the rise of communications technology is that these asshats can get their spot blown EVERYTIME they open their mouths a start lie telling. Lil’ Stevie here certainly looks like a desperate boot-licker…typical Republican.
February 11th, 2009 at 2:00 pmI was going to say “another Republican who doesnt know what the fcuk he’s talking about.” I should say, when you find a republican that makes sense let me know. All of these storylines are making me dizzy.
February 11th, 2009 at 2:00 pmTweedster Says:
One of the greatest things about the rise of communications technology is that these asshats can get their spot blown EVERYTIME they open their mouths a start lie telling.
February 11th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
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Yes, but it also makes the lies much more difficult to squash. In the words of Terry Pratchett, “a lie can run round the world before the truth has got its boots on.”
February 11th, 2009 at 2:07 pmThe lies of the reighwingnuts about FDR and the Great Depression prove a couple of scenarios 1) They are dumber than dirt and gullible to anything the drug addicted drop out gas bad on the radio tells them 2) They are just liars or 3) they didn’t study American History in their home schools. Any of these is no excuse for the ignorance being displayed by the wingnuts.
February 11th, 2009 at 2:13 pmThis brings to mind all the hoo-hah that went on when Joe Biden told Katie Couric, “When the stock market crashed, Franklin Roosevelt got on the television and didn’t just talk about the princes of greed. He said, ‘Look, here’s what happened.’ ”
I’m sure everyone recalls how the right-wingers pounced on this, gleefully pointing out that Roosevelt wasn’t even President when the stock market crashed (and the television reference was just icing on the cake).
Joe’s fans laughed along with it, too — but they knew that even though Joe misspoke, Joe knew his history. Nobody thought for a second that Biden truly believed Roosevelt was President at the time the stock market crashed in 1929. Nobody actually believed that Biden was so clueless as to think FDR “got on the television” back in the early 30’s. It’s far more likely that Joe meant to say, “During the Great Depression following the stock market crash of 1929, Franklin Roosevelt did the equivalent of getting on the television and didn’t just talk about the princes of greed. He said, ‘Look, here’s what happened.’ ”
In other words, Biden mangled a couple of details, but that didn’t detract from the point he was making — that FDR was straight with the American people during a crisis. And that that’s what we need today (the “television” reference probably came about because he WAS trying to compare the FDR situation with what we need today, and today our leaders would “get on the television”).
Okay — let’s now be just as fair to Rep. Austria. Did he mangle a couple of details in the process of making a bigger point? Or did he mangle the point itself? Sure looks like the latter to me — and it’s not just mangled, it’s a complete fabrication.
Observation One — those who slam Biden for suggesting that FDR was President when the Great Depression began shouldn’t make that claim themselves — that’s insulting to our intelligence.
Observation Two — there’s a big difference between getting details wrong that don’t affect the point you’re making, and attempting to make a point that’s a total lie.
February 11th, 2009 at 2:17 pmI have noticed that every winger, including Congress people and Senators are all telling lies. What does that say about their offer. It is a known fact that if they tell the truth, they have nothing to offer. They are liars, cheats, thugs, cowards, and chickenhawks.
February 11th, 2009 at 2:19 pmBack in the early Bush years (2003 or so) a friend – who happens to be conservative, remardked at how he resented the sheer arrogance of the Bush WH’s cynical approach to the people – that is, that the people would believe anything.
Well, it appears that it is still working.
February 11th, 2009 at 2:24 pmAustria’s got it all wrong: Clinton caused the Great Depression!
February 11th, 2009 at 2:46 pmIt’s been said before, even in this thread, the Republicans are providing MAJOR great theater over the last few weeks. It’s a complete study regarding how over that last few years the American public has been dumbed-down to the point where any answer wanted can be gotten daily from hate radio or gospel teevee..
It just continues to provide a great source of exercise for my neck as I merrily go about my daily business shaking my head at the ultimate STUPIDITY of these clowns.
WHEN does Rep. Austria makes his rounds on Fixed Noise with O’Reilly, Hannity and Beck??
Amazing….
February 11th, 2009 at 2:53 pmThinkprogress commentators: Your ignorance will keep you happy in this economic depression caused by the very programs you believe helps you.
Good luck!
February 11th, 2009 at 3:07 pmhussein toasterhead Says
February 11th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
I’d like to see this requirement expanded to anyone running for adulthood, but I’m not holding my breath.
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Actually, anyone who wants to become a naturalized citizen MUST pass such a test. But if you’re born here, you get to be as stupid as you want to be.
February 11th, 2009 at 3:08 pmjohnfive Says
February 11th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
Thinkprogress commentators: Your ignorance will keep you happy in this economic depression caused by the very programs you believe helps you.
Good luck!
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Care to expand on that with an intelligent argument supporting a coherent point (as well as tying it into the topic of the thread)? Or is this just a random troll-turd you’re dropping here?
Please explain in detail which “programs” you believe caused our current economic crisis, and why (and try to make your point without discredited memes and wingnut soundbites). You’ll be in over your head, of course, since many of us have our own well-thought-out theories as to what contributed to our current mess — none of which include progressive programs.
I mean — if we are truly ignorant, the least you could do is enlighten us. But I’m not holding my breath.
February 11th, 2009 at 3:16 pmYou really should have paid attention in school…but please don’t stop. This is great stuff!
February 11th, 2009 at 3:24 pmrepugs are famous for revising history, even in the face of youtube.
February 11th, 2009 at 3:34 pmIs this a tacit agreement with Rep. Austria’s contention that FDR caused the great Depression?
The actual point of the comment is not very clear, other than utter contempt for those of us who study history and recognize its lessons.
February 11th, 2009 at 3:45 pmSure misshusseinmolly:
Here are some principals you should know:
(1) Money doesn’t grow on trees.
Having a central bank create currency and control interest rates distort information in the market.
(2) You can’t keep paying credit off with more credit.
Selling treasury bills/bonds to pay for past treasury bills/bonds is a never ending cycle.
(3) Spending and consuming does not create a sustainable economy – only saving and producing does.
February 11th, 2009 at 4:02 pmThe answer to a decline in the value of speculative assets is to pay less for them.
johnfive, you didn’t answer whether your post was a tacit agreement with Rep. Austria of the historical timeline and responsibility for the Great Depression.
But all of your economic points — especially numbers two and three — might have been more usefully promoted to the Bush administration, which cut taxes, and therefore revenue, in a time of war, and which not only oversaw the expansion of consumer spending from 67% to over 70% of GDP but also promoted it as “doing our part” to combat terrorism.
February 11th, 2009 at 4:17 pmjohnfive, an excellent and concise post on economics. Your points are valid and direct to the point of this present situation.
My only question is, was that what you meant to say since the past 8 years have trumpeted the very opposite as the way to do things.
February 11th, 2009 at 4:31 pm@ ralph
I don’t agree with Rep. Austria
@ Hoodathunk
Actually more than the past 8 years. We have been doing exactly the opposite of these 3 points since 1971 when Nixon really changed things. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_Shock
February 11th, 2009 at 4:42 pmI’m reminded of the old Firesign Theater routine “Everything You Know Is Wrong.”
February 11th, 2009 at 5:12 pmDoes johnfive say BUY GOLD!
February 11th, 2009 at 5:15 pmSure it does.
Ever since we went off the gold standard back in the 70’s.
Money is what we say it is and if we need it we ultimately just print more. The only question as to the value of that money has to do with international currency exchange and the buying power of the US dollar. But ultimately money does grow on trees, and we cut em down, and print it.
Talk about “redoing the system” is what fuels these sorts of crisis. We live in a global economy of usury, for better or worse. But that’s the reality of it. And right now that economies failing because lending is frozen. That’s it. Unfreeze the lending, restart the economy.
The time to rebuild something as intricate as our economic system is not in the middle of a crisis. Things like that are done piecemeal, gradually, over time and during times of economic stability.
FDR didn’t redo the economy when he had his banking holiday and Hoover didn’t federalize the banking system when he created the Reconstruction Finance Corporation. What they did was strengthen it, buy backing US dollars and creating a system to inject capital into struggling banks and financial institutions and by insuring US deposits and funds.
The time to rebuild a ship is not in the middle of the ocean when you are taking on water.
The time to rebuild the ship is once you get the passengers and crew safely on shore. Then you can do the overhaul.
Doing it in the middle of the ocean is a proven recipe for disaster.
February 11th, 2009 at 5:20 pmI dunno wahat you progressives are getting your panties all bunched up over. This is a theory espoused by many people. Heck, I just read it again the other day in the Christian Science Monitor(Which is neither Christian or scientific).
Before you make your partisan jokes you should really look into what the opposing view is on this is. Let me make one case in point. If the New Deal was so wildly successful as you all think, then why did the economy not right itself until the late 1940’s, after WW2. The New Deal was created in the early 1930’s!
The fact of the matter is that WW2 may have done more to strengthen the economy then the New Deal ever did. Its an economic fact that wars help economies. Sad but true.
The reason that history books gush so much about it is because the academic field is full of liberals. The New Deal pretty much ushered socialistic liberalism into our government. So duh, no wonder it gets all this praise it may not really deserve.
Lastly, just cuz we are off the “gold standard” doesnt mean printing money half-cocked with nothing backed behind it is a good idea. See, money is fluid, it is created and it is destroyed.
Let me give ya’ll some Business101, w/ some Econ101 sprinkled in. (which they dont teach in liberal public schools, you gotta wait till college when its an elective or your major.)
An economy can and will improve when it has less constraints on it. Fewer floors and cielings being forced on it and the worst of all, TAXES!!! See, you libs all think that its the rich not wanting to give there hard earned dollars away…Only partially true, but when you are an entrepenuer, a small business, large business, or even a corporation taxes seriously hurt your ability to do business.
Why you ask?
Because in order for money to be created, (hence a strong economy) there MUST BE INVESTMENT. If a business has to give away its hard earned dollars to support someone on the government dole, that means fewer dollars to invest in new equipment or buildings. IE: if your a franchise it means less expansion into other regions, areas, etc.
Which hurts their ability to be profitable. Being profitable is what leads to more investing which leads to more jobs. NOT governement spread the wealth around. Spreading the wealth around just takes money that is already there and moves it. It doesnt create any more wealth, hence fewer jobs and a worse off economy.
That it folks. Right outta my college taxtbook. My professors would be proud.
PS: France is socialist and their unemployment rate hoovers anually around 10%. During the first six years of the Bush presidency it averaged around 3%. Then the Democrats took over Congress…
February 11th, 2009 at 6:29 pmMissHussienMolly…WOW your naming yourself after him? He only been in office less than a month…but I digress.
You had asked what program got us into this.
Well it all starts in the late 1990’s when a fellow by the name of Bill Clinton put his ink stamp on a bill written in a Republican Congress with a helluva lot of Deomcratic support aimed at getting more people into homes. Since it is wildly believed that owning a home is the ultimate American dream, everyone looked at the glory and not the possible what is now, gory.
See, Congress tried to short circuit the market. They said, Market, we are all powerful and all knowing, and we will make laws to prove it!
Then they put people with bad credit, or little to no credit in homes with mortgages they could not possibly afford. Congress said, “Hey banks, (like Countrywide) if we co-sign these high risk people with American tax dollars, will you give it to them?” Banks being as greedy, but only half as stupid as Congress said, “Hey sure, but we hafta get a lil creative with our mortgages.” (IE:ballon payments, adjustable rate mortgages, etc)
Add all that irresonsiblity and stupidity up and you get this. Trillions of dollars of spending in one giant earmark of a bill. Well, that was after we bailed out the banks, but we had to cuz Congress cosigned all those bad loans w/ taxpayer dollars.
I started this thread really calm but now at the end Im pretty pissed off. This problem began with Congress and now ya’ll think they can fix it? With MORE debt?
February 11th, 2009 at 6:52 pmHey Dezz, most major U.S. corporations don’t pay a lot of taxes in today’s world..and they’d rather invest in foreign slave labor to produce their goods.
Check the year your text book was written…was it autographed by H. Hoover?
And by the way, I don’t know what college you went to, but you didn’t learn to spell too good, huh? Can you spot the error?
“not wanting to give there hard earned dollars away…”
February 11th, 2009 at 6:58 pmor how about
“Right outta my college taxtbook”
bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha!!! Thats how you counter my argument, by dissing on my typing and spelling? What a joke! Sorry I didnt spellcheck for ya. Typical liberal, Cant argue on the facts so you hafta…err, sorry, have to make fun of my mistypings and my fasciantion with the bold an itallics settings.If this blog wasnt second rate I could go back and correct, but whatever, thats not the point.
“not wanting to give their hard earned” and “textbook.”
Is your ass happy now?
Why dont you tell me where you got your Business degree from and then we can talk. Forget it, you will lie anyways, its unprovable…but I know you dont know jack about it because the tax rate corporations pay in this country is the second highest in the world.
Thats why, as you say, the invest in foreign slave labor. Its a global economy, and in order to compete in a global economy thats what they are forced to do…Just look at the Big 3 auto industry. The hourly labor rate to build a car is around $71 dollars an hour. Foriegn competitors like Honda and Toyota the rate is $50 and hour.
So brainiac, which do you think is more viable and competitive. Its an easy question really since we just had to bail their dinosaur asses OUT!!! with once again, hard working, middle class, tax dollars.
Feel free to pour over this for grammar and punctuation errors…maybe somehow your brain will understand the facts I just told you.
February 11th, 2009 at 7:14 pmAustria: “When (President Franklin) Roosevelt did this, he put our country into a Great Depression,”
Austria: “I did not mean to imply in any way that President Roosevelt was responsible for putting us into the Depression.”
Do these idiots ever listen to themselves? Do they realize we have their quotes? What morons.
February 11th, 2009 at 7:18 pmdasm says it all:
What this Austria guys shoulda said was…”an even Greater Depression”
Hilarious, a slip up as innocent as my mispelling their vs. there, and that somehow discredits the arguement being made.
Blogs like this dont help anything, and to be perfectly honest, “CHANGE” needs to be coming from both sides of the aisle. Doubtful though, cuz you guys are some sore winners. its more like na-na-na our guy won! Then it is how can we solve our countries problems.
An economic recovery bill written by the social change party, with absolutely no input from the capitalist business party.
Thats like the Republicans trying to start the NAACP or something!
Oh wait, they did.
February 11th, 2009 at 7:29 pmThis RepubliCon stooge should have though of that when the Criminals Bush and Cheney were pouring money into their criminal war and giving money to the Wall Street Gangsters. Little Boy Steve is just another lying, Republicon pile of shit.
February 11th, 2009 at 7:52 pmcapitalist business party.
February 11th, 2009 at 8:05 pm–
Well the Stewart Parnell’s of the world didn’t seem like they wanted to talk too much
johnfive Says:
Pure projection. We all get how comforting you find YOUR obvious ignorance. You are stupid john. Very stupid. This is why you let Rush Limbaugh do your thinking for you since you KNOW you are too stupid to think for yourself. You are a moron. You will always BE a moron. That is your lot in life. You are a moron who sees his own vast stupidity in other people becaus you are just flat too stupid to even RECOGNIZE higher brain function much less being able to perform the function. Sucks to be you or anyone who ever has to be in your presence.
February 11th, 2009 at 8:47 pmjohnfive Says:
Here is something YOU should know you simpering baboon. The infrastructure we built in the 40’s and 50’s brought on an economic golden age. Rural electrification was a HUGE public outlay and it laid the ground for consumer spending as all those rural consumers bought radios and electric lights which were SHOCK manufactured. Here is something else you should know. You are an idiot. And regurgitating what the hateradio screechmonkey has TOLD you to think wont make you look intelligent on this site. Go play with the other challenged children and let the adults talk. We have already heard your ignorant rightwing talking points
February 11th, 2009 at 8:52 pmjohnfive Says: 109
Finally a cogent argument. True the Bretton Woods agreement changed a whole lot in our economy and much of it for the worse for working Americans. That DOESNT mean government spending does not or at least CAN not help the economy it can and HAS in the past. How much more efficient did industry become after the interstate highway system?
February 11th, 2009 at 8:53 pmwhat a moron. Or maybe he knew it was false and said it anyway in the hopes that millions of people would believe it, the way they believe the lies of Fox News. In any case, the retraction itself is a lie, not to mention itself false.
February 11th, 2009 at 9:15 pmdezznutz, your explanation of the mortgage crisis has one big flaw. If, in fact, it was as you say and the government was making banks make bad loans, that might have adversely affected their bottom line, but it should not have surprised the financial institutions when they defaulted–and especially not to the extent they went out of business.
If they were, in fact, loaded down with loans they knew were bad, they would have been complaining and whining about having to forego their bonuses because of all these mandated bad loans.
But that’s not what happened.
Not only were they living high on the hog, pulling down astronomical bonuses and swaggering around like Masters of the Universe, they were taking those loans that they had been making and rolling them into complex financial instruments, and selling these instruments as gilt-edged investments to people around the world.
If they were doing that with loans the government forced them to make to risky borrowers they knew stood a big chance of defaulting on, they belong in prison for massive criminal fraud.
If I lend $5,000 to my shiftless brother-in-law because my wife wouldn’t let up on me, I will probably lose that money. But If I go into a risky business deal where the success of the venture depends on that $5,000 getting paid back precisely on time, I’m an idiot. And if my company goes under because of it, is it the fault of my brother-in-law?
It is most assuredly not.
I’m laying aside the fact that that was not what was going on. Even if it was exactly as you described, the bankers would have a) already written of those bad loans and b) be up on Capitol Hill thumping for guarantees and subsidies for the welfare they’re being forced to give out.
Your scenario is not only false, it is devoid of internal sense.
February 11th, 2009 at 9:32 pmThe reason the Republicans have to hammer this fallacy home is they need to convince people 6′ under who voted for FDR in 1936, 1940, and 1944 that they were stupid for doing so. Good luck!
February 11th, 2009 at 10:42 pmI hope it is becoming clearer to everyone that the Republican Party is a criminal organization. The rubbish that these gangsters put out is unbelievable. Their ignorance and immorality is massive.
That’s the problem with being rich.
February 12th, 2009 at 2:51 amPatrioticLiberalChristian Says:
“Apparently, the Republicans have not been successful at destroying public education as a whole system, so they are feverishly attempting to destroy science, language arts, math, and history one subject at a time.”
Reply: It’s been the Dems who started a government-run school system, and it’s the DOE that has changed most all of the courses, and it’s Liberal/Socialist professors who write most of the history books. Now…. you were saying?
pbg Says:
“… dezznutz, your explanation of the mortgage crisis has one big flaw. If, in fact, it was as you say and the government was making banks make bad loans, that might have adversely affected their bottom line, but it should not have surprised the financial institutions when they defaulted–and especially not to the extent they went out of business.
If they were, in fact, loaded down with loans they knew were bad, they would have been complaining and whining about having to forego their bonuses because of all these mandated bad loans.”
Reply: That’s EXACTLY what happened, and what caused the mortgage/economic crisis.
February 12th, 2009 at 12:49 pmSo…… how did BHO come to be where he is?
The Republican Party was started in 1854 as the anti-slavery party. Under the leadership of President Abraham Lincoln, Republicans fought to free blacks from slavery. After the Civil War, Republicans amended the US Constitution to grant blacks freedom (13th Amendment), citizenship (14th Amendment) and the right to vote (15th Amendment).
Republicans passed the civil rights laws of the 1860’s, including the Civil Rights Act of 1866 and the Reconstruction Act of 1867 that was designed to establish a new government system in the South – one that was fair to blacks.
Republican Senator Everett Dirksen from Illinois pushed through the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Dirksen was instrumental to the passage of civil rights legislation in 1957, 1960, 1964, 1965 and 1968. Dirksen wrote the language for the 1965 Voting Rights Act. Dirksen also crafted the language for the Civil Rights Act of 1968 which prohibited discrimination in housing. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. hailed Senator Dirksen’s “able and courageous leadership.” “The Chicago Defender,” the largest black-owned daily at that time, praised Senator Dirksen for the passage of the “best civil rights measures that have ever been enacted into law.”
The enforcement of affirmative action began with Richard Nixon’s 1969 Philadelphia Plan. That plan was crafted by black Republican Art Fletcher – it set the nation’s first goals and timetables to undo the damage of our racist past. Notably, Fletcher, as president of the United Negro College Fund, coined the phrase “the mind is a terrible thing to waste.”
Republicans also started the NAACP 100 years ago on February 12, 2009 — Abraham Lincoln’s 100th birthday — to counter the racist practices of the time. The first black American to head the NAACP was Republican James Weldon Johnson who wrote the lyrics to “Lift Every Voice and Sing”, the inspirational song that is considered to be the Black National Anthem – which will also be song at our Lincoln Tribute Dinner next month.
February 12th, 2009 at 12:54 pmAhhhh…… facts truly scare and confuse Liberals.
February 14th, 2009 at 1:30 amMiddleoftheroad Says:Ahhhh…… facts truly scare and confuse Reichwingers.
You needed a bit of help getting the truth in your statement there Moronoftheroad.
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