House and Senate reach tentative deal on economic recovery package.
House and Senate reach tentative deal on economic recovery package.
CongressDaily reports the key elements of the tentative compromise:
House and Senate leaders have struck a tentative deal on a stimulus package with a top-line figure of $789.5 billion, Democratic aides said this morning. The overall mix of funding and tax provisions remains to be hashed out. One disappointment for President Obama is likely to be a scaled-back “Making Work Pay” tax credit of $400 for individuals and $800 for married couples, which falls short of his goal of $500 and $1,000. But those figures would still meet Obama’s goal of providing a tax credit to 95 percent of working families. Conferees are scheduled to meet at 3 p.m. today, although that will largely be a formality. Democratic aides said House Speaker Pelosi intends to bring the bill to the floor Thursday, followed by Senate passage Friday.
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a stimulus package with a top-line figure of $789.5 billion
– - It should be twice that amount.
February 11th, 2009 at 11:24 amBadmoodman Says:
a stimulus package with a top-line figure of $789.5 billion
- – It should be twice that amount.
Be not afraid, there will be plenty more deficit spending coming down the pike. Obama hasn’t been in office for a month yet, there is plenty of time to spend money.
February 11th, 2009 at 11:29 amjeez… what’s another .5 billion?
a-friggin-mazing…
February 11th, 2009 at 11:33 amWhat a big success for the Republicans! They scaled it back by how much? They knew all along it would come to this but they had to make a stink to placate their base and appear to be relevant.
February 11th, 2009 at 11:33 amI used to invoke the statement that when you’re in a hole, the first thing you do is stop digging when I was comparing what Obama should do vs. what Bush did. Upon reflection, I realized that if the hole that the person left you in is so unstable that it is about to collapse and bury you, then of course, you have to dig around and stabilize the hole… THEN you begin to climb out.
It just amazes me that people look at the stimulus package as if it is Obama’s fault that we have to spend so much money to keep ourselves from being buried in the hole that Bush put us in.
That’s like blaming the EMT for cracking your ribs when he or she is performing emergency CPR on you….
February 11th, 2009 at 11:35 amHere’s an idea for a real stimulus package, legalize marijuana and tax it like booze.
A brand new industry, putting people to work in agriculture, processing and packaging, distribution, sales…. And the tax it would bring in would be an enormous boost. Buy stocks in M&M’s, Taco Bell and Dorito’s.
And as a side benefit, it would cut the legs out from under the illegal drug business from across the border.
And nanlichi can listen to Thick as a Brick without being paranoid.
February 11th, 2009 at 11:36 amron paul says we should just abolish the federal reserve.
February 11th, 2009 at 11:38 amBadmoodman…it WILL be twice that amount in interest alone.
The thought that just because the economy appeared to come crashing down as fast as it had, should not provoke our congressional leaders to overreact….just to cover their inept arses. At this point, the hip-shooting and reactionary spending will surely drive us further into recession. Conversly, they should take the time to perform root cause analysis, to prevent this from happening in the future….and forget the polls.
As expected, the Julios (from O’s town hall meeting/circus) of the world will have their hands out looking for the path of least resistance.
Maybe a new car, kitchen and spa for every American…eh??
February 11th, 2009 at 11:40 amA whole new franchise possibility… Bong Burgers…
February 11th, 2009 at 11:41 amGive us a fu(kin’ break, Keltoi. After supporting the worst deficit spender in the history of the United States, conservatives have no room to try to claim Democrats as profligate spenders — and certainly not as those who enjoy deficit spending just because.
February 11th, 2009 at 11:42 amnanlichi Says:
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Here’s an idea for a real stimulus package, legalize marijuana and tax it like booze.
A brand new industry, putting people to work in agriculture, processing and packaging, distribution, sales…. And the tax it would bring in would be an enormous boost. Buy stocks in M&M’s, Taco Bell and Dorito’s.
And as a side benefit, it would cut the legs out from under the illegal drug business from across the border.
And nanlichi can listen to Thick as a Brick without being paranoid.
Word Up, nanchli!
Unfortunately, our “wise men” don’t know how it feels…
February 11th, 2009 at 11:42 amIt is a fascinating study in reversal of priorities, shall we say? That conservatives who not only wanted to invade Iraq because of a nonexistent “imminent threat” but also supported record deficits to pay for that invasion, now preach “caution” and the dangers of the interest we’ll owe on the money we borrow.
The question remains; is this reversal of priorities the result of a Democrat now being in the White House? Or of the fact that the money we’re borrowing might be spent to help Americans instead of to blow up foreigners?
February 11th, 2009 at 11:46 amralph the wonder llama Says:
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Keltoi Says:
Badmoodman Says:
a stimulus package with a top-line figure of $789.5 billion
- – It should be twice that amount.
Be not afraid, there will be plenty more deficit spending coming down the pike. Obama hasn’t been in office for a month yet, there is plenty of time to spend money.
Give us a fu(kin’ break, Keltoi. After supporting the worst deficit spender in the history of the United States, conservatives have no room to try to claim Democrats as profligate spenders — and certainly not as those who enjoy deficit spending just because
Ralph, I hated Bush’s spending – hated. It is the number one thing he did that turned me against him, and the Republican Congress went merrily along. They are getting a well deserved tour of the wilderness as a result.
But two wrongs don’t make a right. I supported Ross Perot in ‘92 based on his very simple observation that the national debt was wildly irresponsible, and the debt in ‘92 was chump-change compared to what we have now. We have yet to suffer run away inflation, but it seems like we must eventually pay the piper for just printing money we don’t have.
Obama can have his $800 billion, and you and I both know there will be lots more programs to balloon the budget in the near future, but my gut tells me we have to get spending under control someday or face true catastrophe.
February 11th, 2009 at 11:48 amToo busy making their animal deals Keltoi.
Seriously though, the biggest cash crop in America and it’s not taxed?
February 11th, 2009 at 11:49 amTouche Ralph!
So no lessons learned here??
“The question remains; is this reversal of priorities the result of a Democrat now being in the White House? Or of the fact that the money we’re borrowing might be spent to help Americans instead of to blow up foreigners?”
Blowing up things and killing bad guys is fun…to say the least, however, since you’ve so wisely and eloquently stated, why would you (meaning congessional leaders) succumb to impulse??
February 11th, 2009 at 11:52 amnanlichi Says:
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Too busy making their animal deals Keltoi.
Seriously though, the biggest cash crop in America and it’s not taxed?
Plus, we’d halve the prison populations.
February 11th, 2009 at 11:55 amKeltoi, by repug standards two wrongs do make a right. They got to spend and spend with 99% of the value going into things that benefited 2% of the population. Now they want to block some spending that might actually have some favorable impact on the people who supply the money.
And they still claim they are right.
February 11th, 2009 at 11:58 amI understand your position, Keltoi (especially vis-å-vis Jethro Tull), but what I objected to in your post was the subtle suggestion that Badmoodman was urging deficit spending simply for deficit spending’s sake. You were probably being flippant, but it was bullshit.
I agree the national debt is a disgrace and a much bigger part of the puzzle that put us in this situation than a lot of people realize. But it’s a long-term problem, and focusing on it at this point, when short-term threats are so serious, would be foolish.
Had we focused on the deficit and the national debt when considering how to finance the invasion of Iraq, things would have been different. We wouldn’t have cut taxes in wartime — that’s always been seen as irresponsible, if not impossible, throughout history. The nation would have had a much clearer picture of the costs of this war, even if we weren’t allowed to see any of the human costs on our televisions.
So it’s hardly a case “two wrongs making a right”. It’s two vastly different situations that should have required vastly different solutions.
February 11th, 2009 at 11:59 amFor those worried about the size of the package I have two words for you
Omnibus Bill
Getting the education funding back is a good thing. Its time to actually frikkin celebrate that we are getting an economic stimulus sooner rather than later. I know there hasn’t been much to be cheerful about for the last 8 years but as President Obama said, don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the absolutely necessary.
February 11th, 2009 at 11:59 amCould anyone make any sense of this post, other than another bloodthirsty wingnut’s celebration of cognitive dissonance?
February 11th, 2009 at 12:01 pmKeltoi
The current percentage of prisoners incarcerated due soley to marijuana is app. .07% of the pison population, therefore, “halve” is being a bit overblown…wouldn’t ya say.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:01 pmThe majority of prisoners are there due to violent offenses, sex crimes, dealing etc.
Ralph, expecting a troll to make a cognitive post? Serious wishful thinking.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:04 pm.07%? Seven out of every 10,000 prisoners? Methinks your Excel is dicked up Anti. The pot stimulus package discussion is probably better left for another day.
The question today is how do we get our country out of this incredible mess left by what’s his name? President Obama understands that we need help. He is trying to save the country from a depression, the least we can do is support him and give him a chance.
Recognize the insurgency actions from the Repugnants and don’t let them do any more damage. 8 years was enough.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:18 pmkeltoi, it’s not a “two wrongs don’t make it right” scenario. If a measurable amount of the spending that Bush had done with the complicity of a willing Congress would have borne fruit we wouldn’t be in this mess. You see, when you throw money away on tax breaks to the rich and to corporations that are proven not to work, when you borrow a trillion dollars from China to pay for a war that should never have been waged, when you allow corporations to not only obtain obscenely overpriced no-bid contracts (which are bad enough) but do nothing about the rampant over billing and utter waste that follows, when you don’t give a shit where pallets of billions of dollars went, or thousands of guns and munitions, then ALL your spending is for naught. Obama’s stimulus plan injects money directly into our economy, creats millions of jobs and could potentially slow the recession and hopefully things can start to turn around. It’s not like private corps, banks or Wall Street are going to be the solution. If things continue as is health care costs will make it available to only the wealthy few who can afford it, gas/oil prices will continue to be the bain of progress in our Country, lending will freeze and more people will be tempted to sell all there stocks and cash in there retirement plans and here comes the depression. Domestic spending is at a near standstill as pertains to luxury purchases. Even necesssary purchases are being curtailed indefinitely as people just don’t have the money to spend. More foreclosures and the drying up of monies to pay for unemployment benefits are just around the corner if not here already. Government is the sole entity with any capacity to do anything about it right now. Spending that spurs results is not a waste keltoi as opposed to the wasteful Bush years. I’m fourty-four years old and in my lifetime I can honestly say that I have never witnessed this so-called “fiscal conservatism” in action. It is a myth that Republicans hold the key to fiscal restraint much as it is a myth that republicans keep the Country safer. What I HAVE seen is that Democratic Presidents seem to have a knack for reining in wasteful spending and improving America’s economy. Yes, they may spend more of their budgets on infastructure and domestic enrichment issues but this never seems to have the negative effect that Republicans constantly warn us of. If anything, the Republican financial strategies of tax breaks and lowered spending on infastructure always seem to hurt the economy in the long run.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:20 pminitials A A. well-chosen. delirium, anyone?
February 11th, 2009 at 12:42 pmit’s not what you spend, it’s what you spend it on that makes the big difference in the long run.
black-ops, jets that can’t be used, SDI, welfare for defense contractors = maximum $, minimum results.
schools, roads, hospitals, parks, grid, water, energy = whole lot more jobs, whole lot healthier economy, and a whole lot more people who can consume and be taxed.
not really a head-scratcher if you ask me.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:46 pmRalph, Hooda, Patriot – I am out of the defend Republicans business. I don’t even know how I would remake them if I could. Single party rule is bad for the country; about the only virtue I can see in the R’s right now is that they are a counter-balance to the D’s, who I also have no real high opinion of.
I agree with almost everything you say at 18 Ralph, I just have to live with the fact that I supported the Iraq invasion in 2003, never dreaming how badly the reconstruction would be botched and how incredibly costly it would be in blood and treasure. And as I say, Obama can have his trillion to try and fix things….I just have a major sense of foreboding of where all this spending will wind up. And again, I make no excuses for Bush’s profligacy, none.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:49 pmWhy bother with the bickering? The bill is already close to a trillion dollars that we don’t have. Why argue over a few million here and a few million there? It’s going to ruin the economy no matter what they pass.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:50 pmin case you hadn’t noticed, Al – it’s pretty well jacked up as it is.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:52 pmseriously dude – how does one “wreck” a car that’s already totaled?????????????
February 11th, 2009 at 12:53 pmThis sounds like a good compromise given the choices needed to gain passage. One presumes that Sen. Collins has given her nod on this even though it looks to be a closer to the House bill than the Senate bill.
February 11th, 2009 at 1:01 pmSome one please tell me of another country that charges interest to ITSELF???? Life the federal reserve does to us.
Tell me of another counrty that gives the power of printing money to individuals …ie…the federal reserve is privately owned….and some of the owners are not Americans. How many of you knew that?????
Ron Paul is right….get rid of the federal reserve and the United States could print there own money without INTEREST!!!!
The last presidents who tried to get rid of the federal reserve…..Lincon, Kennedy ….what coincedence isn’t it.
Watch the man behind the curtain….George Carlin.
http://WWW.ZEITGEISTMOVIE.COM …ADENDEM. Learn about money and the system.
February 11th, 2009 at 1:02 pmKeltoi, as you said…”I supported the Iraq invasion in 2003, never dreaming how badly the reconstruction would be botched”.
First, supporting the invasion of a sovereign nation that had not declared war on us is contrary to every principle in the US Constitution. There is nothing in any part of the American Dream or the reality of our legal system that supports the idea of preemptive attacks.
Second, any invasion, war, or police action always has a cost. We knew it going in. War isn’t cheap. And it doesn’t make a damn bit of difference if it is well planned beforehand or not.
You bought the bill of goods, we are paying the price so don’t whine that it was a bad idea now. It was always a bad and expensive idea.
February 11th, 2009 at 1:02 pm——————————————————————————–
Hoodathunk Says:
You bought the bill of goods, we are paying the price so don’t whine that it was a bad idea now. It was always a bad and expensive idea.
I am not whining, I am just honest enough to admit I was wrong and not pretend I didn’t back it. Gulf War I was relatively brief and inexpensive. Had we simply pummeled Saddam from the air for a few months he might have pulled a Milosevic and cried uncle. But there is no point going back down that road right now.
February 11th, 2009 at 1:05 pmI worry that these changes will kill the initiative. Sen. Collins said that if the Conference Committee returned anything but nearly the original Senate version, she will likely vote against it. Hooray for Sen. Collins. She faces the wrath of right wing organizations for daring to work with the Democrats. Perhaps its time to show some Think Progress love to her to encourage her to continue working with our people.
February 11th, 2009 at 1:07 pmNOLIESPLEASE, printed money is basically worthless. Do you know what the Germans used their printed money for in the 1930’s?
Firewood.
February 11th, 2009 at 1:08 pmKeltoi, the day you make the next step past your ‘if we had just pushed this war’ riff to the point of ‘no war is the best war’ you will be getting close.
Nobody wins wars, just some lose less.
February 11th, 2009 at 1:11 pmI;m with ya, Hoodathunk, but I give Keltoi credit for owning his past positions and being able to adjust his perspective.
Keltoi, I also agree with you on the counterbalance idea. I’m sure I’m in the minority here when I say that Republicans can be useful as a minority party (in fact, given their general anti-government posture, they’re ideally suited to serve as a minority party) but they are not fulfilling that role very usefully at the moment.
Of course, neither are the Democrats acting as a very sound majority — but then they sucked as the counter-balancing minority party, too.
February 11th, 2009 at 1:28 pmHoodathunk Says:
Nobody wins wars, just some lose less.
Someone wins in totalitarian dictatorships, though….it just happens to be a very small percent.
February 11th, 2009 at 1:32 pmWow, an $800 tax break. Gee, that’s 1.5 of the monthly payments I am making on my 2007 taxes.
No stimulting there for me…
February 11th, 2009 at 1:43 pmIMHOP Keltoi isn’t a “troll” (quote: hoodathunk). Keltoi argues in good faith ( and I note, hoodthunk, that after the troll comment you then argued rationally right back).
As far as I am concerned Keltoi argues in the best sense of the word—he provides counterpoints that keep the discussions lively and expansive. He sure ain’t Darryl/Rapture Ready!
I’m just sayin…
February 11th, 2009 at 2:14 pmKeltoi – actually part of what you stated is correct. There will be more spending bills. Sarah Palin is already working on her “porkulus” request. That is why she wanted to meet President Obama. I’m sure the “war profiteers” have been lobbying their favorite Senators and Representatives to put together a “porkulus” war spending bill.
February 11th, 2009 at 2:30 pmAfter finding out yesterday that not only was our nation’s economy 3 hours away from total destruction, the destruction of the whole world’s economy was that close, too.
And to think that George W Bush not only almost completely destroyed the US, he almost completely destroyed the entire world.
Enough of the past. If President Obama can at least stop the bleeding, that will be a major accomplishment.
February 11th, 2009 at 2:34 pmKetoi: Gulf War I was relatively brief and inexpensive. Had we simply pummeled Saddam from the air for a few months he might have pulled a Milosevic and cried uncle.But there is no point going back down that road right now.
Umm too simple, Keltoi.
“Had we pummeled him from the air”? That would have been pummeling Iraq and its citizens from the air, not just Saddam Hussein. It would have been a continuation of the war after the Iraqi ground forces had been severely damaged. THAT would not have been a smart strategy.
The Gulf War was also instantiated through differnet circumstances and prosecuted accorfing to different goals than those that were applied to Iraq over a decade later.
Lastly the Gulf War was concluded. The Iraq War/Occupation is still ongoing. You seem to be lumping the Gulf War with the Iraq war and then suggesting “mistakes were made in both lets move on”.
No need to respond in any length to my comment here as we could go on for days and we can always pick this up on future threads when appropriate. Otherwise we’ll just get bogged down and we both have other opinions on other matters to express elsewhere. Fair enough?
February 11th, 2009 at 2:36 pmHey, not a bad idea. It would create jobs and lots of jobs if the cars, appliances and spa equipment are MADE IN THE USA.
February 11th, 2009 at 2:37 pm5th Estate Says:
Otherwise we’ll just get bogged down and we both have other opinions on other matters to express elsewhere. Fair enough?
Fair enough. Another time, or perhaps not. I think the debate on Iraq is going to be completely retrospective. We are leaving, it is just a matter of how quickly.
February 11th, 2009 at 2:56 pmPolls indicate Americans want something done to save jobs and homes. Conservatives are talking ideology, but Americans have heard that trickle down nonsense before. The GOP is risking serious political damage if it doesn’t work with Obama and the dems on a stimulus plan.
February 11th, 2009 at 3:00 pmBy the way, 5th Estate, don’t say too loudly that you don’t think Keltoi is a troll.
He embraces his inner trollness and sometimes gets very upset when people suggest he’s actually here for adult debate.
February 11th, 2009 at 3:04 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
By the way, 5th Estate, don’t say too loudly that you don’t think Keltoi is a troll.
He embraces his inner trollness and sometimes gets very upset when people suggest he’s actually here for adult debate.
February 11th, 2009 at 3:05 pm“UUUURRRR–RRAHHHHRRRR—UUURR-RRAHHLLLL, TROOLLUUU”
Is Keltoi saying he is a troll? Was such a blatant posted needed?
February 14th, 2009 at 7:52 pm