Jack Reed: ‘I don’t think we should be afraid’ of investigating Bush crimes.
Jack Reed: ‘I don’t think we should be afraid’ of investigating Bush crimes.
A new USA Today/Gallup poll released today shows that nearly two-thirds of Americans support investigations into Bush era crimes like torture. Asked about the findings on MSNBC this afternoon, Sen. Jack Reed (D-RI) added his name to a growing list of congressmen endorsing either congressional or Justice Department investigations into Bush administration wrongdoings:
I think we have to seriously investigate allegations of torture. … I think our political system as well as our judicial system is strong enough to conduct these investigations fairly and then to bring those people the law to justice. I don’t think we should be afraid of that.
Watch it:
After Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT) called for an independent commission to investigate Bush crimes earlier this week, Rachel Maddow noted that Leahy joins party leaders Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV), Rep. John Conyers (D-MI), and Sens. Russ Feingold (D-WI), Carl Levin (D-MI), Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI), and Barbara Boxer (D-CA) in calling for investigations. “I think that what we have stumbled into here is an unexpected but rather blatant emerging consensus among powerful Democrats in Washington that alleged Bush-era crimes should be investigated and if need be, prosecuted.”
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February 12th, 2009 at 2:46 pmI’m glad not everyone is aboard the “let bygones be bygones and let’s move forward” bandwagon. But I’ll be even more excited when I see some action to go along with the calls for investigations.
February 12th, 2009 at 2:47 pmDoes America have the spine to look at both the best and the worse of America, followed by the courage to analyze our actions
-or-
Is America a bunch of spineless cowards that float to whatever sounds pleasant.
February 12th, 2009 at 2:48 pmJust like the past 2 years, they won’t do bupkus. They all are violating their oaths to uphold the constitution and are complicit in any crime that has been committed. History will look back on this Congress and previous administration as the low point of American history. Will we be able to restore the rule of law? I’m not confident anything will happen, but I hope I’m wrong.
February 12th, 2009 at 2:49 pmRhode Island has two good progressive senators. As a California citizen. I’m jealous.
(I’m lookin’ at you, DiFi!)
February 12th, 2009 at 2:52 pmsaid it before and i’ll say it again – Jack Reed rocks!
February 12th, 2009 at 2:55 pmActions speak louder than words. If we are to regain any respect in this world, you know that respect that BushCo pissed all over, we must grow up and demonstrate that the majority of Americans do value the rule of law.
President Obama, you said that no one is above the law. So do something, please.
PEACE
February 12th, 2009 at 2:55 pmRachel is opining what she and most clear thinking people wish the Democrats were doing. Watching Leahy, and listening to his words indicate he wants a third world Truth Commission as Jonathan Turley stated in response, not investigations, prosecutions and jail time for those who initiated, instigated, and condoned torture and other lawless acts. Pelosi’s change of attitude is strange, given absolute stance during the 110th Congress. Of the political critters named above, only Whitehouse and Feingold are unequivocal in their commitment to the equal application of the rule of law.
February 12th, 2009 at 2:56 pmalleged crimes?
bush and cheny have both admitted they authorized torture personally.
February 12th, 2009 at 2:56 pmBuckarooBanzai Says:
Just like the past 2 years, they won’t do bupkus. They all are violating their oaths to uphold the constitution and are complicit in any crime that has been committed. History will look back on this Congress and previous administration as the low point of American history. Will we be able to restore the rule of law? I’m not confident anything will happen, but I hope I’m wrong.
And what do you think history will say about the people re-electing those same complicit people?
February 12th, 2009 at 2:57 pmWhile it’s great to hear all these Dems talking about investigating Der Chimpenfuhrer and his reich, I’ll believe it when I see it. This sounds more to me like pure rhetoric from them rather than something they actually might follow through on — you know, telling us what we want to hear without having any actual intention of doing something.
Except for Barney Frank — now there’s a guy who, when he says something, I actually believe it…
February 12th, 2009 at 2:57 pmi realize that many of you still the insulation and willfully ignore the many, many unanswered questions of 9/11; however, yesterday at over at the huffington post melissa rossi, author of “What Every American Should Know about the Middle East” (Plume/Penguin, Jan. 2009) bravely questioned the official narrative of events, demanding a new independent investigation of 9/11:
February 12th, 2009 at 2:58 pmObama: Reopen the 9/11 Investigation — Part 1
Obama: Reopen the 9/11 Investigation — Part 2
i realize that many of you still *enjoy
February 12th, 2009 at 2:59 pmI am ashamed that the Bush Administration tortured. I would like to say, Not in my name! As painful as it might be, this needs to be looked at very carefully by the Justice Department and see what the truth is. Then, as they say, let the chips fall where they may.
February 12th, 2009 at 3:01 pm.
The Rule of Law requires accountability for crimes committed.
Without accountability, the Rule of Law is naught.
Is America a Nation of Laws…
… Or a Nation where men decide which laws apply and to whom?
.
February 12th, 2009 at 3:01 pm.
Declassified DoD Documents Suggest Detainees Were Tortured to Death
Written by Jason Leopold
Wednesday, 11 February 2009
http://pubrecord.org/ torture/ 677-declassified-dod-documents-suggest-detainees-were-tortured-to-death.html
.
February 12th, 2009 at 3:06 pmFord’s pardon of Nixon and the decision to sweep the abuse of power under the rug allowed for plausible deniability and enabled a lot of people whose political careers should have ended by their association with a criminal enterprise continue (looking at you Dick). I am not willing to let that happen again, especially considering the number of incompetent ideologs were employed in justice, defense and other key departments. The only way to make sure that service as a political appointee in Chimpy’s big adventure serves as a mark of cain barring further government employment is to drag everything they facilitated out into the daylight.
February 12th, 2009 at 3:09 pmwe should be afraind NOT to do that
February 12th, 2009 at 3:10 pmSenator Leahy has a diary up at DailyKos.com asking for our opinion and urging people to sign a petition in support of his Truth and Reconciliation Commission. Needless to say it’s not going over very well even tho the diary in on the rec’d list. The Natives are more than restless over all this
February 12th, 2009 at 3:12 pmRobert Parry just wrote a great piece on why Obama should investigate the Bush crimes to avoid a repeat of the Clinton persecution by the wing-nuts…
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2009/021009.html
The GOP’s Jihad on Obama
By Robert Parry
February 10, 2009
Only a few weeks into Barack Obama’s presidency, a threatening political and media dynamic has rushed to the fore cutting short a very brief honeymoon.
Share this article
The Republicans and their right-wing media allies are doing whatever they can to strangle the Obama phenomenon in its cradle; the mainstream media pundits are stressing the negative so they don’t get called “in the tank for Obama”; and the Democrats are shying away from holding the Bush-Cheney administration accountable for its crimes.
None of these developments is particularly surprising. Indeed, they track closely to the political-media pattern that took shape the last time a young Democrat won the White House, when Bill Clinton became President in 1993.
Then, the dispirited Republicans got a lift from the loud voice of a younger Rush Limbaugh who used his popular three-hour radio show to pillory Bill and Hillary Clinton. That, in turn, encouraged the congressional Republicans to vote as a bloc against President Clinton’s budget and economic plan.
continued at the link above~~
February 12th, 2009 at 3:14 pmIf our founding fathers were not afraid to take on a king, we should not be afraid to take on a dictator-wannabe. Moreover, we have a patriotic duty and a moral obligation to investigate and prosecute any violation of any law at any time by any person of any station. If we look away, we give away “liberty and justice for all”.
February 12th, 2009 at 3:15 pmI used to have a protest sign that read…
“CHENEY WILL DO TIME,
February 12th, 2009 at 3:16 pmTHIS TIME!!”
As much as I want to see these criminals brought to justice, there are very good reasons to delay. A few hundred-thousand reasons.
If Bushco were convicted while troops are still in Iraq and Afghanistan, it could turn into a whole new bloodbath. I think it would be prudent to get our troops to safe ground before confirming our worst suspicions.
Too many have died for Bushco’s follies as it is. It could prove disastrous to give their victims more legitimate reasons to hate the former regime when so many honorable Americans are still in a vulnerable position.
February 12th, 2009 at 3:23 pmGotta remember what Barbara Boxer said to, Rachel, I think. Now that I finally understand how the Senate works, I think it is time to go. Meaning, its rules and procedures are so complicated and convoluted its members often don’t understand them. So how are we average citizens to figure out what they really are doing when it all sounds crazy to us? Maybe what is up to us is down to them, and down is up. Just like Lewis Carroll books.
Also, I love this site because of the wonderfully zany names the posters use.
February 12th, 2009 at 3:28 pmInvestigate, arrest, prosecute, convict, execute.
NUREMBERG II 2009
February 12th, 2009 at 3:30 pm…..then cremate and scatter the ashes.
February 12th, 2009 at 3:31 pmThere is some jeopardy that the agenda would be put on hold to investigate the Bush administration. And the possibility of a precedent set that Presidential decisions are investigated after he or she leaves office.
But, I think there should be an investigation. If Democrats are serious about the allegations, they should really pursue them. If Bush is a criminal, it is not only a right, but an obligation of the current leadership to investigate and/or prosecute.
Without that; the allegations seem baseless and not credible.
February 12th, 2009 at 3:33 pmThat we failed as well. Most countries people rise up in the streets when the actions of their government go over the line. Look at France right now. Look at the US in the 60’s/early 70’s. We’ve all become complacent sheep. We should have voted them out. I’m disappointed that Pelosi was re-elected. When she said impeachment was off the table, she was abdicating her responsibility to the Constitution. If nothing else, the Democrats should have replaced her as Speaker, and Reid in the Senate. Both incredibly weak leaders.
February 12th, 2009 at 3:36 pmThe idea that the leadershi(t) is even dithering on such an obvious obligation bodes ill for the dispensation of justice/prosecution of bush.
Suppose the polls after WWII dictated that most weren’t interested in prosecuting Germany or Japan. Does that really have any bearing whatsoever on investigation and prosecution of blatant war crimes?
Crimes that have been not only admitted to, but documented? Crimes that are actively being concealed via telecom immunity and now Obama’s perpetuation of bush’s state secrets abuses; which deny wrongly detained victims their right to relief?
The only reason possible for this much vacillation is to parse these issues to death until the next “crisis” overtakes the public’s attention and the bush war crimes treason gets consigned to the memory hole; past the statute of limitations and too ‘complicated’ to pursue so long after the fact.
A tried and true political tool…
February 12th, 2009 at 3:44 pmA similar example would be to imagine a call for investigation into Truman’s use of the Atomic bomb on Japan.
He used two A-bombs to intentionally kill hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians. Shouldn’t we have investigated that decision?
February 12th, 2009 at 3:49 pmPete?
After Abu Graib, you think Iraqis and Afghanis are assuming the best about Guantanamo? I think prosecuting would do our relation ship with the Mideast good—it would show that we think torturing them is wrong.
February 12th, 2009 at 3:50 pmonecrankydem, do you have a link to that?
very important stuff there
February 12th, 2009 at 3:51 pmI’m beginning to dread the realization that President Obama will NOT allow prosecutions. I can’t think of a single rational reason for his stance….but there you have it!
So, as an alternative to dispair, I’ve considered the idea that all this evidence can be neatly bundled and delivered to the United Nations War Crimes Investigation Unit and The World Court.
February 12th, 2009 at 3:56 pmHow shameful for President Obama !
wikipedia.
Did we the right to try to overthrow a neighboring sovereign nation (Cuba)? Would we have investigated Kennedy for the attempt?
February 12th, 2009 at 3:58 pmWow, b-cup, that was a deftly avoided question. A little head fake, a little juke, and that question sailed right on by.
Nice open field moves ya got there.
February 12th, 2009 at 4:01 pmb-cup, can you identify any presidential malfeasance that could NOT be excused by this line of reasoning?
Seems like you could use this rhetorical tactic to excuse Nixon as well. Why don’t you give it a try?
February 12th, 2009 at 4:04 pm34. backup Says: Did we the right to try to overthrow a neighboring sovereign nation (Cuba)? Would we have investigated Kennedy for the attempt?
backup, to dredge every American meddling circumstance doesn’t advance the case. I can produce dozens of examples, but that doesn’t illuminate the current reluctance to investigate bush’s unprecedented violations. In fact, it only makes the current reluctance that much worse; indicating that we haven’t learned or evolved past decades of staggering denial, cover-up and corruption.
Pretty much everyone knows that America isn’t the hype in the Pledge of Allegiance. Far from it.
February 12th, 2009 at 4:07 pmWhaaaaaaaaaaaaa TF?
Defend the US Constitution?
I’m a scared!! Please, someone protect me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Damn, gotta shake that “bushification” syndrome. Still workin’ on it.
February 12th, 2009 at 4:16 pmralph. okay, you got me. It’s hard to apply to Nixon, but it would go something like this:
Seriously, though, I think there is some jeopardy in creating a precedent for regular investigations of Presidential decisions.
That being said, the torture issue is the strongest case for prosecution for Bush and company.
There is a strong case that a full vetting of the events will help us to a better understanding. And if the evidence is strong that laws were broken, justice needs to be done. Hopefully, that process would yield more in terms of understanding and justice than the price in terms of distraction and division.
If the evidence is there. If the case can be made conclusively. It should happen.
February 12th, 2009 at 4:23 pmI’m doing my best to only look forward.
February 12th, 2009 at 4:36 pmTo their prosecutions.
Sounds like a call for economic stimulus.
February 12th, 2009 at 4:41 pmNo commissions please. No reports; no nasty letters. Go all the way with this, or leave it alone. Personally, I think legal investigations are warranted.
February 12th, 2009 at 4:42 pmIt’s because of our history of not sufficiently investigating presidential actions that we’ve come to torture, illegal invasions, and spying on U.S. citizens. Enough!
February 12th, 2009 at 4:48 pmNicely done on the Nixon apologia.
But seriously (as someone once said) no one’s calling for “regular investigations of Presidential decisions”.
Only the ones that can be reasonably viewed as criminal.
You sound like you’d be inclined to agree with Nixon when he said “I’m telling you that if the President does it, it’s not illegal.”
February 12th, 2009 at 5:31 pmralph. I think Democrats have a strong case to investigate Bush, especially on the torture.
I haven’t thought about it enough, but I think the President is in a different position than you or I in relation to the law.
The President should not be above the law and what Nixon did was wrong/illegal. And obviously all president’s should abide by our laws.
There are some differences, I believe, based on the position.
For example. I think most would agree, if a foreign country nukes an American city, our President would have a legal right to respond in kind. If Russia nuked Los Angeles, I don’t think anyone would charge Obama with a crime for bombing Moscow in retaliation.
But, if my neighbor burns my house down, I don’t think I would have a right to burn his down in retaliation. The address would be to go to the police.
I think some of the difference is in that the position of president is a last level of authority.
It’s not an excuse for President’s to not abide by our laws, but possibly inherent in the position is a greater latitude to ensure defense or general welfare. I don’t know.
What do you think?
February 12th, 2009 at 6:01 pmI think your examples are kind of sloppy.
If a foreign country nukes an American city, no one is going to object to the president’s obligation to respond, especially not in legal terms. That’s not a very close match with what we’re discussing, however.
True, Condi Rice DID threaten such a scenario, but in fact the president authorized a military strike and invasion of a nation that had neither attacked nor had the capacity to threaten us. So he doesn’t get the protection that the hypothetical president you present would have. Two different situations. The Bush administration tried to sell the former situation as the one we faced, but it was untrue. Whether they believed it or not is a material point, but it’s difficult to give them the benefit of the doubt when there was so much evidence presented to them to the contrary that was just flat ignored. Hell, even the British government said they were fixing the facts around the policy.
So your hypothetical doesn’t help you much to sell this argument. It’s kind of irrelevant.
February 12th, 2009 at 6:15 pmIf Russia nuked Los Angeles and the president responded by nuking Venezuela…
If Russia nuked Los Angeles, it would be either by accident or part of a decapitating strike that included Los Angles (for some bizarre reason). The president would probably just green light the generals to carry out the SIOP. This isn’t a matter of “having latitude”, it’s how the game has been designed since Kennedy and McNamara gave the president civilian oversight of nuclear forces after the Cuban Missile Crisis.
February 12th, 2009 at 6:16 pmrhf. that’s a great response. one day, I’m sure it will happen without the trademark all caps, insult closing.
Good points, though.
February 12th, 2009 at 6:20 pmIt’s time to be be afraid if we don’t criminally investigate and find out what’s been going on.
February 12th, 2009 at 6:30 pm41 – actually backup it’s the bigwigs in wall st. and mortgage banking and bigwigs in big industry who put the gun to the public’s head by saying, if you (gov’t) don’t bail us out, then they will all lose their homes and jobs etc.
regular people of all stripes really want the same thing – to do their work and raise their families in peace with some hope that their kids can do well and that they won’t have to work every day for medicine when they’re really old.
you’re (consistently) attacking a strawman of lefty regular people who you seem to think are demanding handouts to buy weed and cheetos so they can stay home while you have to go to work and pay taxes. no matter how many rich guys on tv and radio tell you that’s what’s happening – THAT IS NOT WHAT IS HAPPENING.
February 12th, 2009 at 6:40 pmAmerica can not be restored until the RepubliCons are behind bars.
February 12th, 2009 at 6:51 pmtom. I think you’re right. But, you’ll have to admit that sometimes it seems that everyone is looking for a bailout. You’re right about wall street and banks. And I’ll add corporations like GM. But, the list goes on. Home owners in foreclosure. State and city governments. Tax breaks for workers and even for those that don’t pay taxes at all.
The idea of stimulus makes sense. The problem is that we will eventually have to repay the money. A bigger concern than that is: are we becoming a dependent society? All of us. Do we expect to much from the collective? An expectation that can’t be met indefinitely.
February 12th, 2009 at 7:21 pmI like backup and I don’t consider him to be a troll. He seems reasonable and avoids the insults and bullying behavior of the typical troll types that venture here. And on that note, the jobs program (let’s call it what is is) is necessary to get people working again, rebuilding our infrastructure and working on alternative energy sources. The money spent will return to the treasury in time; a better educated people will be more able to help solve the problems of tomorrow.
February 12th, 2009 at 8:00 pm#32 perris,
http://ga3.org/campaign/btcpetition
February 12th, 2009 at 9:26 pm
My patience is wearing thin with you lefties, you are a bunch of no ba,s, no guts. Do you realize that these men killed 300 babies they didnt just kill them, they were disintegrated, vanquished from this earth. You spinelessidiots, you are worried about torture, you are worried we might mistreat these animals. We should have shopped their heads off, we should have torured them first.
February 12th, 2009 at 10:34 pmYou creepy no guts people, worry about them???? The fact that they may mistreat our soldiers because of this? You dumb a$$s THEY ALREADY DID. Let God get them after we are through with them and let him do the rest. It is so sad you think these killers have rights. They dont -THEY ARE KILLERS.
Get on with your life, and get some guts while you are at it.
if they are ever serious in restoring the USA’s image in the World… what are they waiting for????!!!!!
February 12th, 2009 at 10:54 pmjeanette deldin… grow up! Travel! and find a book! Stop watching Fox!!!!
February 12th, 2009 at 10:58 pm‘you lefies…’ So cute!
Sacioenapa, you are dilussional, beside being wrong. I was in Europe last year and everybody i seen and met, loved our Country and they lovwed Bush. Get over your fear that they may not like us. They do and they will.
February 12th, 2009 at 10:59 pmBESIDES, DO YOU REALLY CARE? really care?
The American people must courageously advocate investigation and prosecution against Bush.
Submitted by Andrew Yu-Jen Wang
B.S., Summa Cum Laude, 1996
Messiah College, Grantham, PA
Lower Merion High School, Ardmore, PA, 1993
“GEORGE W. BUSH IS THE WORST PRESIDENT IN U.S. HISTORY” BLOG OF ANDREW YU-JEN WANG
ONLINE, ANTI-BUSH, EDUCATIONAL, SCHOLASTIC RESEARCH: LISTING OF MAJOR ISSUES
http://andrewyu-jenwang.blogspot.com/2008/10/bush-is-worst-president-in-american.html
February 12th, 2009 at 11:15 pmWang111 Says
Perhaps we should get you some courage pills you moronic leftist. Is that all you can come up with is that we tortured the killers at Gitmo? They killed Americans – we should torture them you idiot. You want respent from the world, well guess what – maybe they could call you a wimp.
February 12th, 2009 at 11:32 pmGod, I cant stand this. You yellow-bellied moron, siding with terrorists that killed our babies, babies who didnt have their rights read to them, how about that. Perhaps we could have read rights to all the people these killers killed.
Where is ba’s you idiot lefty.
jeanetee deldrin:
February 13th, 2009 at 12:25 amI don’t believe you are a real person.
This troll is wrong on so many levels it is difficult to know where to start! I guess universal, er I mean SOCIALIZED medicine, really needs to be instituted so this poor individual can get help. Hopefully someone will intervene for Ms. Deldin’s and get her some help.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:29 amdbadass, I sincerely hope you are right.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:30 am911 appears to be an Inside Job
Anthax Attacks was an inside job
WMD’s was a lie.
Illegal wiretapping occurred even before 911
Torture occurred
Secret Rendition occurred
History is already written. The question is our we a fascist police state?
February 13th, 2009 at 1:28 pmjeanette deldin Says:
My patience wore thin with you cowardly morons long ago. You are stupid and unfortunaltly for you there is no pill, no treatment no hope for alleviating your stupidity. You were stupid yesterday, you are stupid today and you will be stupid tomorrow. You are WAY too stupid to understand the values good people associate with our country and would toss them away like the garbage you are so you can feel better while hiding like the coward you are under your bed. You are disgustingly stupid and a shameful coward. Do the world a favor DO. NOT. BREED.
February 13th, 2009 at 2:03 pmEugeneDebs Says:
Thats it — take your sorry a$$ and quit quoting me.
February 13th, 2009 at 2:44 pmYou are a fist class prik. All you can do is be a pansy for these killers. These terrorists love you, evidently you love them too.
Mr Reed
Stop this craziness – you have encouraged these idiots on here only to get fame for yourself. What we true Americans want is for you to apologize to us and to all the families of the unthinkable attack AND to the President, too. Are you truly in love with these bast#### Or does your pocketbook need a refill.
February 13th, 2009 at 2:49 pmjeanette deldin Says:
My patience is wearing thin with you lefties, you are a bunch of no ba,s, no guts. Do you realize that these men killed 300 babies they didnt just kill them, they were disintegrated, vanquished from this earth.
My patience is wearing thin with your ungrammatical, misspelled, nearly incoherent frothings. What “300 babies” are you ranting about? How about the hundreds of thousands “vanquished from this earth” by BushCo’s illegal war?
Oh, I forgot: they’re not white. They’re not “Christian.” They’re not rethugs. They’re not your cabal.
So their lives don’t matter.
February 13th, 2009 at 3:35 pmjeanette deldin Says:
Sacioenapa, you are dilussional, beside being wrong. I was in Europe last year and everybody i seen and met, loved our Country and they lovwed Bush. Get over your fear that they may not like us. They do and they will.
BESIDES, DO YOU REALLY CARE? really care?
Misspellings: Sacioenapa, dilussional, lovwed
Incorrect Grammar: everybody i seen and met; i seen
Stupidity: Get over your fear that they may not like us. They do and they will.
Irrelevance: BESIDES, DO YOU REALLY CARE? really care?
I very much hope that “everybody [you] seen and met” is not judging the US by what they saw of YOU. And I didn’t realize that there was a BushCo enclave in “Europe.”
February 13th, 2009 at 3:43 pmPost 72, At the world trade center younumnut, So now all you can do is rant craziness at me and my spelling? Thats the best you got?? Do you even care that all these people died a horrible death. Are you not even sad for them? Dont you think the killers should die? You weak crying whining babies.
February 13th, 2009 at 4:17 pmjeanette deldin Says:
My GOD you are ignorant. You are stupider than the hair on a barbershop floor. Either cough up the evidence all the people tortured are killers or STFU you ignorant simpering baboon. You are just a coward who WANTS people to be tortured for your depraved pleasure you dont even CARE if they are guilty of anything. You fascist ignorant souless drone.
February 13th, 2009 at 4:33 pmjeanette deldin Says: 74
Actually telestai2 was being kind the abject stupidity. The shameless cowardice and the lack of common decency in your posts is MUCH WORSE than your third grade writing level
February 13th, 2009 at 5:24 pmprosecutegeorgebushformurder.com
February 20th, 2009 at 10:04 pm