Bush Aide: Leahy Truth Commission Is ‘Terribly Dangerous’ Idea, Possibly ‘Deadly’
Bush Aide: Leahy Truth Commission Is ‘Terribly Dangerous’ Idea, Possibly ‘Deadly’
Last night on The O’Reilly Factor, Bill O’Reilly showed a clip of a Fox News producer ambushing Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT) to accuse him of political hypocrisy for urging an investigation into Bush crimes after he had opposed the Clinton impeachment. “This Leahy thing — this is beyond the pale,” O’Reilly moaned.
Marc Thiessen, Bush’s former chief speechwriter, agreed. Not only would the investigations be hypocritcal, he said, but worse, they would be “terribly dangerous” because they would expose the “facts” of the U.S.’s interrogation techniques to Osama bin Laden:
THIESSEN: [T]he facts that they want to get out are the techniques we use to interrogate terrorists. The techniques that we used to intercept e-mails and communications and telephone calls. And when you get those facts out, it’s not just going out to the American people and to the viewers on television. It’s going out to Osama bin Laden. It’s going out to the terrorists who can use those information to get around our intelligence and plan the next attack.
So it’s very deadly — this is very deadly serious stuff. … And it’s terribly dangerous.
He also emphasized that the people Leahy might investigate “aren’t torturers, they’re heroes.” “They should be getting a parade on Pennsylvania Avenue,” he added. Watch it:
Pushing for greater secrecy in the name of terrorism is the reflexive reaction for right-wing torture-lovers. Last year, former Cheney chief of staff David Addington refused to speak about waterboarding to Congress, saying that terrorists might be paying attention: “I can’t talk to you, al Qaeda may watch C-SPAN.” In 2007, National Intelligence Director Michael McConnell said “Americans are going to die” if surveillance is discussed openly; Undersecretary of Defense Eric Edelman told Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) that “public discussion” of an Iraq withdrawal “reinforces enemy propaganda.”
Yet despite their fearmongering on the consequences of investigations, the American public firmly supports such inquiries: Nearly two-thirds of Americans support examining potential crimes committed by the Bush administration, with 40 percent supporting criminal investigations.
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Yes, because nothing says “hero” like one who slices a detainee’s testicles, which results in absolutely NOTHING regarding the perceived war on terror, and the capture of UBL!
Mucking hypocritical, torture luvin’ foron!
February 13th, 2009 at 11:39 amI’m sure everyone close to the cheney/bush disaster will be begging to not have all their dirty secrets exposed. What a surprise!
February 13th, 2009 at 11:39 amThey are not heroes, but I agree that they should be getting paraded down Pennsylvania Avenue… in handcuffs and orange jumpsuits.
February 13th, 2009 at 11:44 amThe truth shall kill ye! Now that’s a twist on the usual quote.
Why should anyone fear the truth? Why indeed Mr. Bush.
February 13th, 2009 at 11:45 amThe facts that we want to get out are whether or not there were techniques used to interrogate terrorists that have been specifically prohibited by law and treaty. We want to know about any possibly illegal techniques that we used to intercept e-mails and communications and telephone calls. And when you get those facts out, we want prosecution of those who ordered and carried out the illegal activities. This is the only way that that we can assure the American people and the world that we are a nation of laws and accountability. We can only be a beacon of democracy and morality if we actually operate as a democracy and morally. So this secrecy and willingness to accept terrorism and illegality as opaque but nonetheless official American policy is, indeed, very deadly — this is very deadly serious stuff. And it certainly is terribly dangerous, as are those who promote such unAmerican activities.
February 13th, 2009 at 11:46 amForget the truth commission.
February 13th, 2009 at 11:46 amJust throw the entire Bush administration in Guantanamo.
Better?
The fact is that many of these “terrorists” will be released for a variety of reasons, including the British resident that was mutilated under our supervision. I think those people know exactly what “techniques” were used.
What we are talking about are unlawful acts and whether those responsible are truly above the law that they are sworn to uphold. Besides, does anybody not think that bin Laden knows all that you need to know about waterboarding. After all, the technique has been around for anyway a couple of centuries. No, I’m afraid that it is the embarrassment and criminal activity that O’Reilly wants to keep covered up.
February 13th, 2009 at 11:47 amThis is just the beginning!!!!
Wait til all the details are exposed. The Repugs wont get into office for a lonnnnnnnggggggggggg time!!!!
MAY THEY ALL BURN IN HELL!!!!
February 13th, 2009 at 11:48 amSince we all have a much greater likelihood of dying at the hands of a drunk driver than an Al Qaeda terrorist, then, logically, we should be prevented from seeing, hearing, reading or otherwise exposed to alcohol commercials, car advertising, public service announcements regarding use of seat belts and the presence of sobriety checkpoints.
Ignorance is knowledge.
February 13th, 2009 at 11:48 amNearly two-thirds of Americans support examining potential crimes
but that’s sure to change, when the “folks” are inundated with right wing hyperbole and LIES.
February 13th, 2009 at 11:49 amRiiight. People who slice the genitals of their captives are heroes.
February 13th, 2009 at 11:50 amMarc Thiessen seems to be the dangerous one here.
February 13th, 2009 at 11:52 am“I can’t talk to you, al Qaeda may watch C-SPAN.”
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I should hope so. Senior al-Qa’ida operatives watching Congress wrangling over the recovery bill and yelling at bailed-out bankers would be the best possible defense against another 9/11. They’ll see that we’ve screwed ourselves worse than any attack they could possibly carry out.
February 13th, 2009 at 11:53 amTHE AMERICAN PEOPLE WANT AND DESERVE TO KNOW THE TRUTH!
We’re tired of the scare tactics. We’re tired of being told that we have to remain ignorant because big, bad Osama bin Laden might be watching C-SPAN.
If the people in the Bush Administration had done their job, then Osama would be sitting in a prison cell right now. Putting him in prison and keeping him there and alive would do more to destroy Al Qaeda and terrorism in general than killing him or letting him remain a free man.
Treat him like the criminal that he is and show to the world what we do with criminals. Deny him martyrdom. Deny his followers the luxury of turning him into a sainted leader that inspires more of the same criminal acts.
But we simply cannot lose our moral ground and abandon our values in the process. If we are to lose valuable and precious rights like habeas corpus, then why are we fighting against these people? We won WWII without giving up on our values. Why is it different now, when we face an enemy that does not and cannot pose an existential threat to our nation.
The truth must be told. Those who are responsible for violating our own laws in this “war on terror” must be held to account. These people are not heroes. They are traitors to the values that Americans hold dear, and they have hurt our cause by walking away from the constitutional basis for our society.
Sunlight never hurt anyone, except those trying to keep us in the dark. Let the truth come out. Let us restore our moral authority and leadership. Let us show to the world that we are not going to let anyone – even our own leaders – throw away the dedicated work of over 200 years of building our nation.
We are not children. We don’t have to be protected from the truth. It is time for us to know exactly what happened.
February 13th, 2009 at 11:53 amYou know what… I was trying to be funny, but this isn’t any kind of joke. It is these people broke the law and put our country at a much greater and serious risk.
More “terrorists” have sited the way we treat our prisoners as the main reason for fighting Americans than anything else. The facts don’t need to come out in any investigation for the terrorists to figure them out. They’re already out. The difference is that either we do something about it and restore the law as a people or we remain terrorists ourselves.
Chris Matthews last night was saying how “surprising” it is that the people want an investigation into the crimes of the Bush family. I don’t think it’s any surprise at all. How could it be? Millions of Americans love their country, and want to keep it that way, including myself. I think the “surprise” may be that the media isn’t controlling the message as well as they thought they were.
February 13th, 2009 at 11:54 amIf investigations indicate treason, then, yes, “deadly” and “dangerous” might be accurate descriptors.
Are we witnessing the karma of fear returning to the fear mongers?
February 13th, 2009 at 11:57 amis being a coward the #1 way to get on fox?
February 13th, 2009 at 11:59 amOh just wait til that prisoner is released and then sues the British government. The details that will come out will shock the American public.
Who have we become as a nation??? Will the wrongs be undone??
Will we punish those responsible?????
The picture is not pretty….and who amoung us is going stand and demand answers???? WE ALL MUST UNCOVER THESE EVIL ACTS TO RESTORE THE DIGNITY OF THIS COUNTRY.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:00 pmTypical Republicant’s. They can’t tell the difference between impeaching a President for a private, consensual sexual act and a President who authorized torture and trashed the constitution.
These guys are really running scared. I’m happy to see it. They should be.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:01 pmI’m not sure what O’Reilly & Thiessen mean by this. Either they think, if al queda knows how we torture and kill, that’ll piss them off so much they’ll be more inclined to kill us. Sure, it’s a point, except they already want to kill us and assume the worst of us anyway.
Either that, or they think…what, exactly? If they know we waterboard, they can give their terrorists anti-waterboarding pills? Teach ‘em to love having their genitals sliced?
Bottom line is, the only thing these hearing will do is prove how some of the sadists in power get their rocks off and pretend it’s for our own good.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:01 pmfamily should be Administration, but yeah, that too.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:01 pmThese neocon torture-loving anti-American fascists are getting very scared. Their deep complicities in the Bushco crimes have them all pissing their collective pants and rightly so. The USA has signed treaties that specifically promise that we will not torture captives. We also have sworn to the world through treaties that if Americans are found to have tortured captives we will investigate and punish the torturers and any people who approved it. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Addington, Woo are all complicite in this disgusting, anti-American act and we are duty bound to the world to investigate. Not one Republican who defends these criminals has had an answer when asked about our obligations internationally to investigate potential torture crimes. Nor have they posed a legitimate defense to the simple fact that Bush tortured and that it is against the law. They make excuses but that does not change the simple fact that laws were broken. The canard about Americans being saved because we tortured is false. Never proven. We signed the treaties. International law automatically becomes US law. Where do the Reps think there is ANY wiggle room here?
“They should be getting a parade on Pennsylvania Avenue,” says Thiessen. Yes I agree, they should be paraded down Pennsylvania Avenue along with Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Addington, Card, Woo, Gonsalez and Rice on there way to a firing squad. This cadre of neocons has hurt America more than Bin Laden could have dreamed of doing. They helped destroy our good name around the world, ruined our economy with their self-serving war in Iraq lying to the Nation the whole time about WMD’s, the state of our economy, their torture policy. They ruled the Nation by employing fear tactics and a concerted media propoganda effort. Being gone from power is not enough for these criminals. They ALL deserve to die for what they have so gleefully have done for their personal agenda. What they did they did for the neocons at PNAC and to fatten their own wallets NOT for the good of America. If we do not prosecute them to the full extent of the law then we Americans are accountable for what they did in our name.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:01 pmIt’s going out to the terrorists who can use those information to get around our intelligence and plan the next attack.
No one on the right has yet explained how this works…
Do they mean that OBL will now have more recruits? That’s happening already, the recruits are already pretty positive that the Bush administration tortured people in custody, they don’t need our confirmation.
In fact, it would seem to me that bringing the culprits to justice PUBLICLY might, just might, convince some not to join the terrorist and to re-join the political process…
Do they mean that OBL knowledge of our testicle slashing ways mean he will now field only eunuchs?
February 13th, 2009 at 12:02 pmI guess this is a worry, as so many Bush loyalists are now out of work…
So what are they saying, that WE invented brand new torture techniques that have never been used before and will take any prisoners by surprise? Well that’s comforting.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:04 pmAfter 9/11 the whole world was on edge. And the Bush gang milked that to foist their PNAC agenda on us.
But in the seven plus years since, the edge has worn off. Eyes have opened. The fear mantra works only for the emotionally impaired.
And with eyes open, the right wing fear mongering propaganda looks far more dangerous than al Qaeda.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:05 pmDoes Mr Thiessen really believe that “Not only would the investigations be hypocritcal, but worse, they would be “terribly dangerous” because they would expose the “facts” of the U.S.’s interrogation techniques to Osama bin Laden.”
As a retired intelligence officer, I can guarantee you that there are no new interrogation techniques.The Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Gonzalez/Addington/Yoo approved waterboarding, which does not produce reliable intelligence first appeared about the time of the Inquisition.
If we are to show the world that we are a nation of laws and respect the Geneva Conventions which we helped create and signed, then we MUST investigate Bush Administration wrong doing and prosecute all the decision makers who are responsible for our illegal, immoral abrogation of international law.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:05 pm@21 – my sentiments exactly. i don’t even know what he’s talking about…does he mean that if al qaida finally sees that we tortured people they’ll be even more upset? as if after abu ghraib and the various dead and traumatized people coming out of guantanamo didn’t already tip them off?
the only other thing i can think of is that if the details of the exact torture methods were described in extreme detail then al qaida might make some kind of training program or say, book, to try and get their guys to withstand the torture. i mean..not like the US ever made a book like that…regarding the torture techniques of a certain east asian country…and then used that book to inform our own “interrogation” techniques…oh wait :( so their real opposition is to al qaida making a resistance handbook that then forms the basis of their own vast network of secret torture prisons. i get it now!
February 13th, 2009 at 12:06 pmThe Nazi’s used the same logic.
TWO THIRDS of the American public want BUSH CO. to go to trial for their WAR CRIMES and their CRIMES against the American public.
The Repukes are scared sh!tless that their “Criminal God” Bush is going to be shown for the criminal that he is and do life in prison.
Which would then show the electorate that Repukes are Criminals and they would lose more elections.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:06 pmLet’s give them their parade! First, tell us who they are. Next, tell us what they did. Finally, we’ll march them all up Pennsylvania Ave and if people want to throw stuff at them, so be it.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:07 pmIf the results of the investigation are in fact “deadly” I can think of a few of those creeps in the Bush Abomination who should be at the front of the line.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:08 pmBesides, I thought we invaded Iraq to keep us safe from terrorists. What happened with that?
February 13th, 2009 at 12:10 pmWhat is Osama Bin Laden going to do with reports on how we interrogate? I find it hard to believe that any of it is so mindblowingly innovative that they’ll suddenly figure out how to undo it. The stuff we hear about has been in existence for arguably centuries in some cases.
Besides, I thought he didn’t matter anymore? I guess he only matters when they can use him like some sort of boogie man.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:11 pm“OK: So you’re saying that the terrorists (no quotes needed)are “fighting Americans” for “the way we treat our prisoners”. Seeing that Gitmo was obviously not opened until after the invasion of Afghanistan, what was the reason for the atrocities committed on 11 Sept 2001?”
I think the point is that it is one of many things that can encourage people to join the fight against us.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:12 pmBildo’s expert was Bush’s SPEECHWRITER? Well obviously he’s a regular genius.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:13 pmwhat was the reason for the atrocities committed on 11 Sept 2001?
Let’s ask OBL, shall we?
February 13th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
nettle
NOUN: 1. Any of numerous plants of the genus Urtica, having toothed leaves, unisexual apetalous flowers, and stinging hairs that cause skin irritation on contact.
Yes, the name fits. Too bad this plant can’t read history to answer its own questions. Real history, that is.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:17 pmI don’t think I can type slow enough for you to understand.
We got attacked because of our foreign policies that angered many in the middle east. Bush’s policies exponentially increased the number of people who hate us and would do us harm. Understand?
February 13th, 2009 at 12:17 pmNettles Says:
“Seeing that Gitmo was obviously not opened until after the invasion of Afghanistan, what was the reason for the atrocities committed on 11 Sept 2001?”
These people weren’t fighting us on or before Sept 2001. Are you disputing that Gimo/Abu Grahib and torture have become their cause celebre?
I put “terrorist” in quotes in a very conscious manner. If someone tortured someone in my family, I can’t promise that my response would be much different.
What would you do?
February 13th, 2009 at 12:17 pmIt’s the old “you’ll die if you question anything Bush did” mantra.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:21 pmWell personally I would target every one of these big mouths, that gets on television and tells people that torture was a good idea as well as the people who ordered the torture.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:21 pmI love the smell of bushco’s fear in the morning, smells like, payback.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:24 pm“…but worse, they would be “terribly dangerous” because they would expose the “facts” of the U.S.’s interrogation techniques to Osama bin Laden…”
____________________________________________________________
A lame excuse if ever I’ve heard one. First — is there ANYBODY (even a wingnut) who truly believes that OBL and/or the rest of Al Qaeda takes our word for it that we don’t torture, and would be shocked to discover that we’ve been LYING about it all this time?
Second — AQ and OBL already hate us. The reason we haven’t had another 9/11 attack isn’t because they’ve somehow decided we aren’t so bad after all. It’s also not because our DHS has made it impossible for them to commit violence in this country. Nor are they intimidated by the knowledge that we might retaliate by bombing an unrelated country (in fact, they probably WELCOME that one — it’s good for their brand). It’s mostly because they see we’re screwing ourselves worse than they ever could.
Show of hands — who thinks that hearing about the ways we torture captives will change our enemies’ perception of us? Other than a couple of brownie points for having the guts to admit what everybody knows is true — probably nada.
The only practical reason at this point to be against investigations, indictments, trials, and convictions is to protect the a$$es of the former administration.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:24 pmAs for hypocrisy, we progressives and liberals would indeed have been guilt of hypocrisy if we complained about Clinton’s impeachment and then called for Bush’s impeachment after Bush was found to have been engaging in extramarital sex (and screwing the country does not count in this).
Investigating and prosecuting criminal acts of violating treaties and laws against torture, laws against domestic spying, and lying us into war of choice are FAR more patriotic than anything done by BushCo.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:26 pm“deadly”?
and why is that?
someone needs to interview this guy further and ask what he means.
Is someone’s life being threatened here?
It seems to be just more leftover paranoia from that old administration.
And that whole “Al Qaeda may be watching”… what a hoot! man, these guys are nearly unbelievable.
I don’t know what’s worse, though–their arrogance or their stupidity.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:26 pmOh goody! A parade! Who doesn’t love a parade?
Can’t wait to see the waterboarding float, the electrodes attached to genetalia, the hoods and stress positions acrobatic acts, and all those cute barking dogs!
I am sickened by what has been done in the name of security and freedom.
PEACE
February 13th, 2009 at 12:28 pmComparing Clinton’s impeachment crimes to those of the Bush crowd is a stretch. Sexual indiscretion with no victims pales in comparison to the crimes of the Bushies. Trying to justify these crimes as necessary for national security is a joke.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:28 pmTHIESSEN: [T]he facts that they want to get out are the techniques we use to interrogate terrorists.
Two things:
1. Do they think that Osama and his buddies are not aware of what torture has been done by America? Seems the whole world knows.
2. Do they think that Osama and his buddies don’t know how to torture? Hell, there is a program on Discovery channel called Machines of Malice which gives anyone a good idea on how to torture someone.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:30 pmPerhaps it was a bad idea for the administration to send an anthax letter to this man.
911=inside Job
February 13th, 2009 at 12:30 pmand no one’s even talking here, it seems, about what the Bushies did internally that may have been against our own laws.
there’s the rub
February 13th, 2009 at 12:31 pm666lattes Says:
“These people weren’t fighting us on or before Sept 2001.”
By that I mean, these particular people. Al Qaeda may have been involved in 9/11, even though I still haven’t seen any evidence either way. Apparently you need evidence for a criminal investigation, but not for a war.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:34 pmBy Thiessen’s standards, the guards at Auschwitz are heroes as well.
A. It’s ridiculous to claim that interrogation methods will inform al qaeda of what to expect if captured, because these Gestapo methods has already being leaked. The abuse, mutilation of genitals, waterboarding, all of it.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:35 pmGod it gets old doing the homework for the feeble minded but thier foolishness might be believed by some who come here if we don’t show how ignorant they are.
http://www.juancole.com/2009/01/al-fakhoura-school-bombed-42-killed.html
February 13th, 2009 at 12:38 pmNettles,
What would you do if, let’s say, Iran’s invading Army kidnapped your father and tortured him?
I’m serious.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:38 pmIn Nettles’ case, he’d prolly go sit in a corner, slowly rocking back and forth and sucking his thumb.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:39 pmUmm…Deadly and dangerous to you if you’ve carried out the dirty business of the Bush Administration. I’d offer this guy this bit of comforting rationale that his own cohorts gave us when they wiretapped us without a warrant; If you haven’t done anything wrong you have nothing to worry about.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:48 pmThey didn’t torture my family they tortured my fellow man and I want revenge.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:50 pmnettles says;
Would you consider it torture if your genitals were sliced up?
February 13th, 2009 at 12:51 pmBelieve it or not repugs we want to live in peace. your little raggedy party want us to die. y’all proved this by starting an illegal invasion and then snicker like little school girls when your lie was exposed.
repugs don’t want their law breaking “secrets” out? Don’t worry repugs we won’t post testimony that is harmful to our nation like your kind do.
Hypocritical is impeaching a president because of a bj.
Suck it up losers! I bet you losers will be the first ones to squeal like a pig at Sen. Leahy’s offer.
I don’t use the term hypocrite and repug in the same sentence because it would be redundant.
BTW — bin Laden is alive? You know something?
February 13th, 2009 at 12:52 pmOf course it can be “deadly” – the criminal cabal behind dur chimpfurher has left a long trail of bodies.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:52 pmAnd every ten minutes or so, he’d look up and meekly cry,
“Bush?”
“Daddy?”
and the go back to sucking his thumb.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:52 pmYou give him too much credit if you believe he has any. Republicans are all a bunch of eunuchs.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:53 pmShayne says:
eunichs? Nah, they like molesting underage boys too much.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:55 pmThe headline sounds like the republicans are playing the fear card again…..aren’t they criticizing Obama for just that?
Reality is not nice to republicans, thier fear cards are hollow attempts to distort reality. The economic disaster they created is real.
February 13th, 2009 at 1:01 pmDeadly for Republicans. Ergo . . . the best idea since the wheel.
February 13th, 2009 at 1:03 pmI’m telling you, it’s because they don’t have their own equipment. It may not be missing physically but it’s definitely psychologically gone.
February 13th, 2009 at 1:04 pmNuttles: OK: So you’re saying that the terrorists (no quotes needed)are “fighting Americans” for “the way we treat our prisoners”. Seeing that Gitmo was obviously not opened until after the invasion of Afghanistan, what was the reason for the atrocities committed on 11 Sept 2001?
Nice work buddy! Don’t you remember being told they hate our freedoms? Where are your talking points young troll??? Good God, have you forgotten your purpose!! Parrot! Parse!! Misrepresent!! Repeat!!!!
February 13th, 2009 at 1:04 pmShayne Says:
You give him too much credit if you believe he has any. Republicans are all a bunch of eunuchs.
Uncle Ho Says:
Eunuchs? Nah, they like molesting underage boys too much.
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Okay… okay… stop your bickering, you two… we’ll just hafta be FAIR and BALANCED about this…
It’s prolly safe to say… half of them are eunuchs… and half of them are child molesters… see? was that so hard?
(***muttering to self***… sheesh… why is it allus up to me to solve these dang arguments? Dang kids…)
February 13th, 2009 at 1:08 pmI refuse to give in. There’s not a set of testicles in the bunch.
February 13th, 2009 at 1:11 pmTROS; it’s not that we’re bickering, it’s just that there is a noticeable lack of trolls defending the indefensible.
February 13th, 2009 at 1:12 pmShayne Says:
I refuse to give in. There’s not a set of testicles in the bunch.
_______________
Perhaps we need the opinion of an expert on this one, Shayne.
Anybody got Larry Craig’s phone number?
Jeff Gannon? Bob Allen?
February 13th, 2009 at 1:12 pmI was born to early. I learned as a child not to lie and if I did I’d get punished. Now today’s youth are taught the Republican Christian Values way of liar, steal and cheat is the new lessons to follow as directed by the Bush Administration for 8 years. Who knew lying would be ok.
February 13th, 2009 at 1:12 pmThe reason we haven’t had another 9/11 attack isn’t because they’ve somehow decided we aren’t so bad after all.
Good points misshusseinmolly. I might point out too that because of Bush’s feeble and misguided attempt to be remembered as a War President, we have put Americans at their doorstep. That makes it so much easier for our enemies to find an American to kill.
February 13th, 2009 at 1:16 pmShayne; maybe because they(Rethugs) are fluffing Blush Limpdick?
February 13th, 2009 at 1:16 pmI think the Dems need to grow some, or at least a spine. For 8 long years, they caved in to chimpy, and look where we’re at now.
Uncle Ho Says:
TROS; it’s not that we’re bickering, it’s just that there is a noticeable lack of trolls defending the indefensible.
___________
Which to me would be proof of Darwinism in play.
The truly stupid trolls, ie, the ones heinously dumb enough to defend some of this nonsense, have all been bagged, tagged, and mounted. The smarter ones, and I use that term very, very lightly, at least had enough of a sense of survival to run off and hide.
And fundies don’t believe in evolution… ***eyes rolling***
February 13th, 2009 at 1:16 pmIt’s hypocrisy to vote against Clinton impeachment but want Bush investigated? The Clinton indiscretion was, for most people, and certainly globally, a non-issue. The war crimes and war-mongering lies of Bush & his regime negatively affected the U.S. standing in the world in an enormous way, making the U.S. invaders, killers of innocent civilians, and torturers. These Republicans and Fox news propagandists just don’t get it, perhaps never will.
February 13th, 2009 at 1:18 pmmisshusseinmolly Says:
Show of hands — who thinks that hearing about the ways we torture captives will change our enemies’ perception of us? Other than a couple of brownie points for having the guts to admit what everybody knows is true — probably nada.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
_____________
I’d say it would have a bigger effect than brownie points, if we were to actually admit wrongdoing and prosecute those respobsible. It may not sway the hard-core al-Qa’ida operative, but it could make some potential recruits think twice. Especially if we also admitted to renditioning prisoners to Morocco and Egypt – two well-known torture states, and specifically condemned both our action AND the actions of our Arab BFFs.
Of course, it’s all rather moot given our continuing support for Israeli genocide, but still – it couldn’t hurt.
February 13th, 2009 at 1:18 pmThiessen is absolutely right, a truth commission would be dangerrous and deadly. Just like the Nuremburg Trials were dangeous and deadly. Do you think that maybe we could hope for similar results? Suicide in their cells, death sentences, life imprisonment, eternal disgrace to their family names? Would that be too much to ask for these traitors? I don’t think so. Look at the historical aftermath of those trials. Germany went on to rehabilitate itself and regain world respect. Maybe the U.S. could do the same after sending the Bush 43 Reich to their just rewards. I hope someone in this country has the balls to see that it’s done.
February 13th, 2009 at 1:21 pmHate to say it, but Bill-Oh and friends were right.
A truth commission would be dangerous…….to Bush
February 13th, 2009 at 1:38 pmSkittles, I see your point clearly.
If other countries violate THE LAW, there should definitely be repercussions(think Croatia, Rwanda, Libya).
If we violate THE LAW, it’s for our protection.
We are above THE LAW, even when it comes to torture.
But, God forbid, if some hell-bent-for-jihad middle eastern slices an American soldiers genitalia, its savagery!
Can’t have it both ways my friend.
You should be extremely ashamed to agree with anyone labeling a torturer as a hero.
February 13th, 2009 at 1:38 pmThe pilot who safely landed the plane in the Hudson, saving hundreds of lives, is a hero.
The fireman, who puts his life on the line to save a child in a burning building, is a hero.
The madman with the propensity to slice up testicles with a scalpel, to get meaningless information, IS NOT!
Let us bash trolls musically! New-to-me site: http://www.amiright.com teems with
February 13th, 2009 at 1:42 pmteems with song parodies, many of them spot-on for our types of comments. I plan to contribute. . .
DRxJ;
February 13th, 2009 at 1:48 pmwell said.
So Nettles, what in your mind is the connection between Bush’s torture doctrine and what happened on 9/11?
I understand that your Bush, as well as Faux News and the pus-gut drug addict make the connection, I just have never met a rational person who makes it.
Piss yourself in fear if you need to. I will resist my country being dragged down to your pathetic quivering level.
February 13th, 2009 at 1:59 pmNettles
read the posts, we spelled it out for your dumb ass.
February 13th, 2009 at 2:00 pmSkittles says:
I ask because between Cantor Fitzgerald, Sandler O’Neill and FDNY, I knew over 2 dozen people who died that day. Maybe I can share some of your wisdom with their families.
And there it is. Back by popular demand, the “9/11 sympathy” ploy.
February 13th, 2009 at 2:01 pmGuess what?
We all lost that fateful day, from an incompetent government trying to distance itself from the previous administration.
Maybe, for those 24 plus families, instead of sharing wisdom of sarcasm, you could use your faux sympathy and do something productive.
nettles says;
Would YOU consider it torture if YOUR genitals were being sliced up?
February 13th, 2009 at 2:13 pmDon’t wait for the translation, just answer yes or no.
Uncle Ho,
I’ll one up you.
Skittles, how would you feel if it was YOUR SON getting his testes sliced up?
Would it be considered torture if it was YOUR SON?
A YES or NO will suffice.
February 13th, 2009 at 2:18 pmDRxJ; I’m not in a contest for one-upmanship. Just trying to show backup some logic and sanity in his bizarro world reasoning(or lack thereof).
February 13th, 2009 at 2:23 pmUncle Ho,
February 13th, 2009 at 2:27 pmMaybe “one up” was too strong. I just think the pain of torture could only be exceeded by the pain of knowing a relative was tortured.
I’m trying to get Skittles to think “outside the dittohead box”.
Skittles may have bolted, so it may be all for naught.
The Republicans claim that investigating and indicting would cost too much time and money.
They certainly didn’t feel that way when they spent six years investigating Clinton for everything. Whitewater, Monica, travelgate and even money spent on Clinton’s Christmans card list. Something like 70 million dollars. And it went nowhere. Other than Monica, which in comparison to what Bush did, was strictly, Bush league stuff, came to nothing.
These people are so far behind in IQ points, it is difficult to understand the way their minds work. Except for being Republicans. That explains everything.
As for being dangerous. It is dangerous if we don’t investigate and indict where warranted. The Church commission during the late 80’s. Nothing was done as a consequence. And when nothing is done, it happens over and over again. Like this current mess. When there is no price for criminal behavior there is no reason not to do it over and over. And they do.
February 13th, 2009 at 2:33 pmSkittles may have bolted, so it may be all for naught.
No, he can’t leave yet! He’s got at least two more posts to get through before his troll cycle is complete…
1) The “you stupid bone-head libs SOOO close-minded and when confronted with the truth you just start name-calling post”…
and then…
2) The “I’ve won! You libs can’t touch me! but now I’ve really got to get back to work post”…
February 13th, 2009 at 2:34 pmfergus Says:
Thiessen is absolutely right, a truth commission would be dangerrous and deadly. Just like the Nuremburg Trials were dangeous and deadly. Do you think that maybe we could hope for similar results? Suicide in their cells, death sentences, life imprisonment, eternal disgrace to their family names? Would that be too much to ask for these traitors? I don’t think so. Look at the historical aftermath of those trials. Germany went on to rehabilitate itself and regain world respect. Maybe the U.S. could do the same after sending the Bush 43 Reich to their just rewards. I hope someone in this country has the balls to see that it’s done.
It will be justice if arrogant, roadmap-face babs wept for chimpy’s freedom. Solid Gold.
February 13th, 2009 at 2:39 pmNettles Says:
Then you reject torture and the tortured ‘logic’ of Thiessen above?
Yes or No…
February 13th, 2009 at 2:46 pmNettles Says:
No, Shayne I dont understand. Which “foreign policies angered many in the middle east? What exactly were these policies? I ask because between Cantor Fitzgerald, Sandler O’Neill and FDNY, I knew over 2 dozen people who died that day. Maybe I can share some of your wisdom with their families.
What does Iran have to do with WTC disasters?
February 13th, 2009 at 2:46 pmnettles; I’m still waiting for your answer.
Would you think it’s torture if your genitals are cut up?
Ever notice how trolls avoid answering a direct question? they always go off on a tangent spouting off their dittohead talking points.
Yes, nettles, I MEAN YOU! I have asked you this question 3x on this thread TODAY. Also, no tread has not answered my question from the other day.
February 13th, 2009 at 2:47 pmWhen we get done with the ” high crimes and misdemeanors” fact-finding mission, we send the entire package to The Hague.
Then we start investigations on the Halliburton/KBR criminal enterprise called “War Profiteering/Fraud Project”
February 13th, 2009 at 2:51 pmnettles;
February 13th, 2009 at 2:54 pmBTW, I’m prepared to wait til hell freezes over for your answer.
Nettles Says:
No, Shayne I dont understand. Which “foreign policies angered many in the middle east? What exactly were these policies? I ask because between Cantor Fitzgerald, Sandler O’Neill and FDNY, I knew over 2 dozen people who died that day. Maybe I can share some of your wisdom with their families.
February 13th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
___________
Feel free to pass this list on to your dead friends and their families:
- CIA Overthrow of Mohammed Mossadegh in Iran, 1953, installation of a despotic Shah
- Support for monarchic and often despotic regimes in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Morocco, and Iraq
- Interference in Lebanese civil war
- Basing troops in Saudi Arabia following the 1991 Gulf War
- Arming the Afghan mujaheddin in a proxy war against the Soviets and then abandoning the country to civil war and anarchy
- Use of World Bank/IMF loans to push many Arab and Muslim countries into debt slavery
- Financial and military support for Israel since 1948
That’s just a quick list, mind you. There are many others, but these are the top reasons why U.S. foreign policy is partially to blame for the attacks of 9/11 that killed your friends.
February 13th, 2009 at 2:57 pmI’ll answer you when you find me one example in my posts of me advocating torture.
Why?
February 13th, 2009 at 2:58 pmIs it torture?
Yes or No?
Game of Life Says:
What does Iran have to do with WTC disasters?
February 13th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
_______
Quite a bit, actually.
See, we overthrew their democratically-elected president in 1953 to install a dictator who would guarantee us and the UK cheap oil. This caused a lot of resentment among Iranians, who rose up against the Shah in 1979 and put a radical Shi’ite government in power. This caused the Saudis to worry about having a major Shi’ite power just across the gulf from them, and the royal family began funding and supporting Sunni Salafist schools in Saudi Arabia and the greater Arab world. This radical Sunni theology influenced many of the Afghan Arabs who later went on to form al-Qa’ida.
February 13th, 2009 at 3:04 pmNettles:
Are you against torture? You urge us to find ‘one example’ of you advocating it, but why not simply reject it?
It would go a long way towards restoring your credibility…
February 13th, 2009 at 3:07 pmnettles;
February 13th, 2009 at 3:12 pmWhy should it be up to US to find one of YOUR posts?
Is answering a direct question really THAT hard?
Uncle Ho Says:
Ever notice how trolls avoid answering a direct question? they always go off on a tangent spouting off their dittohead talking points.
Followed by skittles response:
OK Uncle H-
I’ll answer you when you find me one example in my posts of me advocating torture.
Spot on, Uncle Ho, spot on.
February 13th, 2009 at 3:14 pmThe answer to the question, which is related to this particular thread, was either a yes or no.
Skittles went on a “tangent” about advocacy of torture, which was never questioned.
His sympathy 9/11 ploy? Check.
His refusal to acknowledge the answers to his questions? Check.
His sidetracking of easy questions? Check.
By dum golly, Skittles IS a troll!
Nettles seems to be advocating the entire bankruptcy of his country. He lost some folks in New York, so the entire country must get destroyed for his level of revenge. Bush allowed the attacks to happen, maybe even ordered them himself, but we should ruin our country to continue a failed agenda with regard to the ME? We simply must keep killing anyone who looks like the folks who Bush allowed to attack us. How about this: let’s stop doing what we have been doing the last 50 years which has created this hatred toward America. None of our allies in the ME match up with the dream of America anyway (free elections, educated women, etc). We need to get our country back where is was before Bush stole the 2000 election. I have a feeling Nettles is not wealthy enough to survive the coming financial ruination of the planet. He may want to start planting vegetables or something – or just trusting Obama to do the right thing.
February 13th, 2009 at 3:23 pmUmmmmmm Skittles, I hate to be the one to bring up REALITY, but it was your post about “more than 2 dozen dead” and why?
hussein toasterhead answered your “9/11 sympathy” ploy as a matter of fact, as you had brought them up.
Now you’re playing the victim? Check.
TROLL!
February 13th, 2009 at 3:26 pmbut I have never (nor will i ever)even come close to resorting to the childish level of the disgraceful person who posted this.
huh, ’cause you said this…
Maybe I can share some of your wisdom with their families.
and this…
I’ll answer you when you find me one example in my posts of me advocating torture.
So it seems to me that you asked if someone had information on why 9/11 happened that you could share with your friends families… HT gave you some and said feel free to share this with them, why is this ‘classless’ and ‘uncalled for?’ You directly called for it, didn’t you?
and childish is saying…I’ll answer you when you find me one example in my posts of me advocating torture. in response to a direct question.
Are you an advocate of torture or enhanced interrogation? yes or no…
February 13th, 2009 at 3:26 pmHey belac. I ‘ve got a few bucks that says no clear answer will be offered. Care to share in a friendly wager?
February 13th, 2009 at 3:29 pmNettles Says:
This is absolutely the most classless thing that I have ever read on TP, regardless of the fact that it was pointed at me. Completely uncalled-for.
For the record, things get heated and insults and put-downs are a part of the game, but I have never (nor will i ever)even come close to resorting to the childish level of the disgraceful person who posted this.
February 13th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
___________
Un-called for? HA! That’s cute.
You called for it, Netty. You’re the one who brought up your dead friends as some sort of trump card, as if this gives you a moral high ground from which to discuss the ramifications of international terrorism. You expected us all to swoon and back down from our assertions that U.S. foreign policy is partly responsible for their deaths, didn’t you?
Or did you not? I’m willing to bet that my reaction was EXACTLY what you wanted. Why else would you INVITE it by saying “maybe I can share some of your wisdom with their families.”
So, in short, you’re welcome, Netty! :)
February 13th, 2009 at 3:30 pmOkay then… see, it wasn’t that hard…
February 13th, 2009 at 3:31 pmSo since we agree that the case can be made that the admitted methods are torture and that there are allegations of much worse, shouldn’t there be an investigation into who authorized what conduct and when?
Hold everything. This question seems to remain unanswered…
“Are you an advocate of torture or enhanced interrogation? yes or no…”
February 13th, 2009 at 3:33 pmIs there really a threat that a trial will release detailed technical instructions for intercepting data that would help anyone avoid interception? He’s begging the question of what sources he’s protecting, and why they need protection.
February 13th, 2009 at 3:34 pmA lame claim by a wacko speechwriter. What the heck does he know?
February 13th, 2009 at 3:40 pmHmm you’re right dbadass…
We need a clarification, Nettles… you agree it is tortue… are you against torture and ‘enhanced interrogation?’
I think you are but dbadass must be sure… ease his mind…
February 13th, 2009 at 3:45 pmAmazing what a few decades and ethnicity can do to standards. Japanese soldiers tried and convicted on waterboarding as torture.
And, Nettles? Taking the high moral ground on anything is way too much of a slippery slope for you.
February 13th, 2009 at 3:48 pmPersonal grief is not a blank check. But is a pitiful ploy.
February 13th, 2009 at 3:50 pmFunny how these hypocrites didn’t think this way when it involved Valerie Plame.
February 13th, 2009 at 3:58 pmThe poster told me to “pass it along to your dead friends”.
Do you not think that was uncalled for?
YOU called for it! here…
No, Shayne I dont understand. Which “foreign policies angered many in the middle east? What exactly were these policies? I ask because between Cantor Fitzgerald, Sandler O’Neill and FDNY, I knew over 2 dozen people who died that day. Maybe I can share some of your wisdom with their families.
I don’t understand your outrage…
February 13th, 2009 at 4:01 pmNettles Says:However, I also understand the concern that making public things that were previously confidential is a matter of national security.
So now you are claiming the American public is going to die of a heart attack if they learn the Bush Administration authorized and used torture in contradiction of every law of the land?
Like this is news?
February 13th, 2009 at 4:05 pmGoatherders in the middle of the Sahara already know this.
February 13th, 2009 at 4:06 pmNettles Says:
I am with those who have the integrity of the United States in mind.
Okay, now we’re getting somewhere…
You see, integrity is the very reason these things MUST be exposed… we MUST be better than this- we MUST prosecute illegal actions, even when they are ‘authorized’ by the President of the United States… Thiessen is dead wrong.
Glad you’re on board, Nettles…
February 13th, 2009 at 4:06 pmBTW Nettles… are you pretending to know me? Why do you keep referring to me as Caleb? Are we friends?
February 13th, 2009 at 4:08 pmNettles Says:
I am with those who have the integrity of the United States in mind.
The integrity of the US is not defined by criminals.
February 13th, 2009 at 4:09 pmNettles Says:
Stupidly, I thought that having the unique perspective (to some, not to fellow NYC’ers, obviously)of living through those days would be appreciated by some who might want to know something about the roots behind an opinion different from one’s own.
February 13th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
______________
Yeah, that was pretty stupid of you. It’s not a unique experience, just FYI. I also lived through those days, breathing the lingering smoke from the Pentagon for a week after the attacks. Though thankfully I didn’t lose anyone I knew personally, I know many people who lost friends and colleagues.
However, I didn’t use the experience to retreat into ignorance, as you obviously have. I took it as an impetus to learn more and understand the root causes of what happened that day.
If that’s disgraceful, so be it. I think your ignorance is just as disgraceful, so I suppose we’re even, Netty!
February 13th, 2009 at 4:26 pmNettles, HTH is one of the most respected and expressive poster on this site. His responses to you were well within the bounds you set. Your John Denver post was just as tasteless and off topic as this rant.
February 13th, 2009 at 4:32 pmNettles, my heart aches for the loss of your friends on 9/11.
The comment about “your dead friends” sounds harsh at first read and could have been made much less caustically and much more precisely. But what I believe the posters INTENDED to convey was that your friends might not BE dead if it hadn’t been for the history of disastrous US policies abroad.
I truly don’t think that anyone meant to attack you, and your mentioning the loss does NOT come across as a ploy for sympathy. We who post here deal with so many “trolls” [and their hatreds and delusions and bigotries and general nonsense] that we sometimes riposte first and think later.
Nothing that any of us can say will erase your pain or make up for your loss, but please accept my sympathy?
February 13th, 2009 at 4:38 pmWow…
This whole post-election “You’re either with us or against us” tone
I heard this phrase somewhere before the election, where was it?
You’re trying really hard to be offended by HT’s comment, I personally would be more offended by Bush’s actions in the days, months, and years after the attacks where he used the memory of your dead friends sacrifice to push through things like waterboarding of detainees… which we both agree is torture and wrong. I am offended by that…
And I remember your comment… because I was the one who pointed out that your analogy was apt but only through your ignorance, it wasn’t a glider but a Rutan LongEZ that ran out of gas due to a previous owner’s rewiring of the fuel selector switch… So like Denver, Carter’s economy was scuttled by the actions of others that prevented gas from flowing to the engine… remember?
February 13th, 2009 at 4:39 pmAnd yes. We are friends.
Okay- cool, sorry about the ignorance thing two weeks ago… maybe you meant to be so apt…
February 13th, 2009 at 4:40 pmSkittles Says:
@ #112 DRJ:
The poster told me to “pass it along to your dead friends”.
Do you not think that was uncalled for?
No, not when you started with this:
I knew over 2 dozen people who died that day. Maybe I can share some of your wisdom with their families.
Again, you brought it up. ht countered with his “wisdom” of facts, and you chastise him for it? WTF?
Stupidly, I thought that having the unique perspective (to some, not to fellow NYC’ers, obviously)of living through those days would be appreciated by some who might want to know something about the roots behind an opinion different from one’s own.
Most posting here lived through that horrific day. I’m sorry Skittles that you feel so inclined to make that day about you. We all suffered. Some obviously more than others. But that still doesn’t deter from the fact you brought up the dead to gain sympathy in your argument. Having a difference of opinion is one thing, bringing up the families of the dead as a “trump card” is not as forgiving. It’s deplorable. And I find that as uncalled for as your faux outrage at toasterhead’s comment.
Apparently I was dead wrong.
Its not sympathy, DRJ.
Yes, you were dead wrong. For bringing it up. But you do get acknowledgment and respect for admitting sympathy wasn’t the reason.
See, we can have civil discourse, no? Albeit laden with heavy sarcasm.
February 13th, 2009 at 4:40 pmActually Nettles (and I’m using your real posting name out of respect), if you still harbor such nightmares regarding 9/11, and it bothers you today to even post about it, I truly am sorry.
February 13th, 2009 at 4:49 pmI chastised you because I felt you inappropriately included families of those attacked as a strength for your argument.
My “feelings” could be wrong.
For that, I will (and do) apologize.
Nettles Says: 144
That was only part of the problem with your post. There was also the logical inconsistancy of linking the VALID arguments about our policies with disrespect for the dead on 9/11. It is undeniable that one can HAVE a valid complaint then do something completely inexcusable because of it. By which I mean they are RIGHT. We DID overthrow the first Arab Democracy in the Middle east. Iran and Mossedegh in 53. We DID support Israels illegal invasion of Lebanon in 82 the SS New Jersey was offshore FIRING ARTILLERY into the Shouf mountains. They DO have good reason to be mad at us. That of course in NO WAY justifies terrorism. It is like a man comes home early and finds his wife in bed with another man. He certainly has a valid criticism. If he then SHOOTS the man and his wife he has comitted murder. The fact he is then a murderer doesnt take away the culpability of his wife. They DID do something wrong and that doesnt go away because he THEN also comitted an attrocity.
February 13th, 2009 at 5:35 pmThe cowards always talk. Keep talking about Independent commissions and a rat is sure to squeal
February 13th, 2009 at 5:41 pmI’m back. Got off work, had some errands to run and eat dinner.
nettles; You finely admitted that slicing someone’s genitals is torture. Why the hell did it take you so long to say so instead of dancing around it for some time?
Besides, what has torture to do with 9/11? Does 9/11 REALLY justify us stooping into barbarism? McCain said the other year, it’s not about who they are, it’s about who WE are.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:20 pmI’m still waiting for Republicans to admit Iraq and Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9-11. Ya know, they STILL think they are connected even after ALL THE FACTS have been presented THEY ARE NOT!
They spend BILLIONS AND BILLIONS for the worst strategic blunder in American History and, in the process, let Osama bin Laden get away with the murder of THOUSANDS then claim we shouldn’t “investigate” their criminal behavior. Too many people died for NO GOOD REASON for the Bu$h Administration NOT to be investigated and some go to prison!
February 14th, 2009 at 12:30 amBush is the stupidest U.S. president ever.
Bush’s secrets must be exposed.
Bush must be brought down at any cost.
Bush lied, and thousands died.
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February 14th, 2009 at 1:35 amSeems everyone should wang chung tonight…
February 14th, 2009 at 9:57 amIt’s time to go after these law breakers. They are worse than the KKK and those who thought they were protected during the 50’s and 60’s who thought they could inflict there own justice on those who protested for their rights…These people are thugs, miscontents who want to hide behind the shield of a President who had no control over those who wanted to destroy our Constitutin and the rule os law and the Geneva Convention.
February 15th, 2009 at 12:58 amClinton was only screwing one person, Bush screwed the whole country, tried to destroy the Constitution, and broke UN torture rules.
I say put the wanker in jail where he belongs and do not forget to include, Cheney, Rove, Bolton and Rush just to balance the scales.
February 16th, 2009 at 12:31 pmI hope every one on here has reminded BO (on whitehouse.gov) that aiding and abetting criminals is a crime.
February 16th, 2009 at 6:42 pmI just came from a fox news comment section and believe that we can turn them around on this. We need to convince them that we are equally determined to see members of the Senate that knew about the torture and wire tapping but did not act against it be held accountable as well.
I think most Americans want to “throw all the rascals out”. What better way to do this than, as Johathan Turly says, let the process go where it goes.
Both parties can then have a much cleaner slate and the one’s left standing will have a much clearer view of who’s going to be steering this ship henceforth.
The fact is that many of these “terrorists” will be released for a variety of reasons, including the British resident that was mutilated under our supervision. I think those people know exactly what “techniques” were used.
What we are talking about are unlawful acts and whether those responsible are truly above the law that they are sworn to uphold. Besides, does anybody not think that bin Laden knows all that you need to know about waterboarding. After all, the technique has been around for anyway a couple of centuries. No, I’m afraid that it is the embarrassment and criminal activity that O’Reilly wants to keep covered up.
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