Krauthammer Claims He Doesn’t ‘Complain’ About Liberal Bias, Forgetting His Long Record Of Doing So
Krauthammer Claims He Doesn’t ‘Complain’ About Liberal Bias, Forgetting His Long Record Of Doing So
In a new column, Editor & Publisher’s Joe Strupp writes that conservative columnists are finding “a definite upside” to having a liberal in the White House after eight years of George W. Bush. “It is a lot easier to be in opposition, it is easier to criticize,” Washington Post columnist Charles Krauthammer told Strupp.
In his interview, Krauthammer also told Strupp that the Bush years were especially difficult for conservative columnists because of “a pro-liberal media bias.” Though he claimed he doesn’t “complain about it,” Krauthammer added that “it’s always harder for a conservative“:
Krauthammer says that even when Bush was in power, he and other conservative columnists had a more difficult time because of what he believes is a pro-liberal media. “The media bias is so overwhelming, I don’t even complain about it,” he said. “It is always harder for a conservative, no matter who is in power.”
The irony of Krauthammer claiming he doesn’t complain while simultaneously griping about how hard the media world is for conservatives is especially rich considering Krauthammer’s record of media bias complaints. For instance, in a Fox News segment last October on “Media Bias in Covering the Presidential Campaign,” Krauthammer griped about the coverage of then-candidate Barack Obama:
KRAUTHAMMER: Look, I think that’s the point. The mainstream media, it has gone beyond the point of a lack of curiosity, a lack of questions, a lack of probing into Obama’s associations in the past.
It’s that it has dropped a curtain over these associations, and implied or claimed openly as it said in the editorial page of The New York Times that to probe into them, to question them, and to bring them up is to engage in a form of racism. [...]
We are looking at the most left-wing candidate with the most radical associations since Henry Wallace in 1948, and the press has ruled out as illegitimate any inquiries into this.
Krauthammer has been even more explicit in his syndicated column over the years:
“This is not an isolated case. In fact the case is a perfect illustration of an utterly commonplace phenomenon: the mainstream media’s obliviousness to its own liberal bias.” [Washington Post, 1/14/05]
“When the subject of liberal bias in the media is brought up, particularly during an election campaign, journalists tend to roll their eyes and groan ‘there you go again’ at this recrudescence of an old right-wing shibboleth.” (Washington Post, 1/29/00]
Clearly, Charles Krauthammer doesn’t “complain” about media bias except for all those times he complains about it.
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Krauthammer does almost nothing else but complain about liberal bias, Democrats, etc. Does he think his lies fool anyone? He disbelieves his own words? That’s rather delusional.
February 13th, 2009 at 5:38 pmI just love the way these clowns are trying to set the stage for probes into possible future things.
Must be the pits living with the night terrors.
February 13th, 2009 at 5:39 pmKaruthammer: “It is always harder for a conservative, no matter who is in power.”
Charlie, that’s because the media still tries to reflect some form of reality (hence its apparent — to you — “liberal bias”) so when you conservatives make your arguments based on fantasy-based reasoning, you sometimes run into trouble. Not always — you guys have done a pretty fair job of jerry-rigging the media to suit your style. But more often than you’d like, I’m sure, someone will point out the absurdity of your claims… such as your recent claim that you “don’t complain about the liberal media”.
Does that help you out? Glad to.
Yours,
February 13th, 2009 at 5:40 pmralph
Karuthammer: “It is always harder for a conservative, no matter who is in power.”
– - Look up there. I bet you people thought Bela Lugosi died while making Plan 9 From Outer Space. Ha!
February 13th, 2009 at 5:45 pmAnyone who decries the ‘liberal bias’ of the media is either delusional (as in much of the general public) or is dissatisfied with the size of the check they have received.
Either that or they are just plain nuts.
February 13th, 2009 at 5:46 pmsomeone in the media complaigning about the myth they themselves created called “the liberal media” is the same thing as the wolf in sheeps clothing complaigning about all those wolves
it’s a trick that works on sheep, children and limbaugh listeners
February 13th, 2009 at 5:46 pmThanks Krauth, now I know that up is down! Vote republican!
February 13th, 2009 at 5:46 pmI’ve often thought he looks like the Child Catcher from the Chitty Chitty Bang Bang movie.
February 13th, 2009 at 5:48 pmDid you know that the best prescription for economic growth is trillions in tax cuts and more octuplets?
February 13th, 2009 at 5:49 pmOf course it’s always harder for a CONservative. Raging paranoia must be a horrible thing to have to deal with Chuckles. Now be a good winger and go back to your nice, safe Fox echo chamber.
February 13th, 2009 at 5:50 pm“It is always harder for a conservative, no matter who is in power.”
What’s harder? Harder to get published (in one of the largest newspapers in the country)? Harder to get paid to bloviate on the air? Leaving aside all the coo-coo stuff about liberal media, couldn’t someone ask him what’s so hard? (Other than making sense of his moronic columns, that is.)
February 13th, 2009 at 5:52 pmBut, as with the GOP, being absolutely wrong about everything is not failure – it is success! The DFH have been correct since 2000. The MSM has been wrong since that time. Still, who gets on the air and who gets invited to the cocktail weinie roasts? Same as it ever was…
February 13th, 2009 at 5:54 pmDoes anyone give a damn what sour kraut has to say?
On the one hand, he claims to be a republican, or at least he takes their side of every single argument he gets involved in.
On the other, he’s a mouthpiece for the longstanding and organized effort to destroy the American economy and the American middle class that was just capped off with eight years of the bush-2 mis-administration.
In both cases, the primary message that comes out of their mouths consists of lies, un-truths, dissembling, and obfuscation.
Let him spout away in the enclave of the liars. We’re moving on in a consensual reality that exists.
February 13th, 2009 at 5:56 pm.
Of course it’s not ranting and raving about “Lbrul Bias” when Charles Krauthammer does it…
… YES?
.
February 13th, 2009 at 5:59 pmBy the way, just something I’ve always wondered about since I noticed this wing-nut appearing on news programs and stuff:
Does anyone know if krauthammer receives any Medicare payments related to his paralysis?
It seems almost mandatory for a republican to eat off the public trough at every opportunity, even as they denigrate the weaker members of our society who have no choice but to survive on the largess provided by Progressive policies and programs.
February 13th, 2009 at 6:02 pmPeople like Krauthhammer keep talking about ‘pro Liberal media bias’.
This myth of ‘pro Liberal media bias’ has been circulating for sometime, but there is nothing really there to back it up.
If the media really is run by Liberals..we will not be now in Iraq,there will be no Guantenamo, and Bush would not have won the presidency not even once.
February 13th, 2009 at 6:08 pmThese guys are just liars. Period. Change of subject.
February 13th, 2009 at 6:14 pmWell, what do you expect? Krauthummer can only explain why the public no longer is “center-right,” using the “liberal media” shibboleth. He can’t acknowledge electoral and cultural reality, without lessening his brand’s appeal, and lessening his own ability to negotiate his next employment contract from a bargaining position of strength.
February 13th, 2009 at 6:17 pmhow do you know a repuke is about to start pissing and moaning about something?
February 13th, 2009 at 6:21 pmtheir mouth opens
When you’re as dumb as a bag full of Hammers every problem starts to look like a liberal bias…
February 13th, 2009 at 6:25 pmWhat about the stimulus???? Where is the discussion on the stimulus?
Who is going to pay for it?
The top 25% earners in this country pay 86% of the tax burden. How is it fair that 25% of taxpayers are going to pay most of this back? Or is it that the other 75% just don’t care?
How is it fair that a government can take money from someone who works for it and gives it to someone who doesn’t?
What if we stopped using tax money for welfare? What if we made a charity for welfare programs and American citizens can choose to donate if they want? That is an idea, freedom of choice. What do you think would happen?
Here is another idea I have heard that could work in combination. If you want to offer a stimulus, stop taking income taxes from those who earn for 1 year. No income taxes at all (including medicare and SS) for 1 year. That would put money in the hands of “people that will spend it” next week.
Why isn’t there a movement for people to band together with their money and support each other through these tough times? NO let’s take from those that sacrificed and made something of their life instead.
Why is money taken from one group and going to another? Where in the constitution does it state that it is governments role to make the results fair??? Governments role is to make opportunity fair. What an individual does with that opportunity is there responsibility.
We all took the same risks, but now some will be “rescued” and those that pay their mortgage are left holding the bill.
February 13th, 2009 at 6:25 pm“The top 25% earners in this country pay 86% of the tax burden. How is it fair that 25% of taxpayers are going to pay most of this back? Or is it that the other 75% just don’t care?”
according to whom?
February 13th, 2009 at 6:28 pmBozo The Neoclown Says:
“The top 25% earners in this country pay 86% of the tax burden. How is it fair that 25% of taxpayers are going to pay most of this back? Or is it that the other 75% just don’t care?”
according to whom?
http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6
there is more recent info, but I do not have this link at the moment. I will get it.
February 13th, 2009 at 6:32 pmYeah, Conservatives can’t get ahead but when you need a lead cheerleader against the stimulus, they’re a dime a dozen.
Krauthammer repeats a puppet/parrot line that is about 10-12 years old now. The neocons have control of most news/opinion radio, two Faux News channels, almost another in CNN and consistent nightly newscasters and network news segments in the tank.
If this got anymore on their side, people would have to storm stations and demand transparency by force.
Then again, the neocon pundits can’t stand not having the White House chefs at their disposal now that the revolving door to the Oval Office is blocked by a concrete wall.
February 13th, 2009 at 6:33 pmbarfly, at this point I don’t know that it’s even possible to lessen his brand’s appeal.
February 13th, 2009 at 6:36 pmIndependant Says:
——————————————————————————–
What about the stimulus???? Where is the discussion on the stimulus?
Who is going to pay for it?
The top 25% earners in this country pay 86% of the tax burden. How is it fair that 25% of taxpayers are going to pay most of this back? Or is it that the other 75% just don’t care?
How is it fair that a government can take money from someone who works for it and gives it to someone who doesn’t?
What if we stopped using tax money for welfare? What if we made a charity for welfare programs and American citizens can choose to donate if they want? That is an idea, freedom of choice. What do you think would happen?
Here is another idea I have heard that could work in combination. If you want to offer a stimulus, stop taking income taxes from those who earn for 1 year. No income taxes at all (including medicare and SS) for 1 year. That would put money in the hands of “people that will spend it” next week.
Why isn’t there a movement for people to band together with their money and support each other through these tough times? NO let’s take from those that sacrificed and made something of their life instead.
Why is money taken from one group and going to another? Where in the constitution does it state that it is governments role to make the results fair??? Governments role is to make opportunity fair. What an individual does with that opportunity is there responsibility.
We all took the same risks, but now some will be “rescued” and those that pay their mortgage are left holding the bill.
February 13th, 2009 at 6:25 pm Recommend (0) | Report Abuse
I am so tired of this bullshit, better hope your health holds up,I don’t want to help a selfish pig like you,
February 13th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
Please wake up!!!
I am very tired of being my brothers keeper. No one helped my wife or I. We have made plenty of mistakes with our money and will make plenty more. What we do not do is ask for others to be responsible for our mistakes. We take the risk so we take the reward or failure.
Why is that such a foreign concept these days?
Not everyone “deserves to own a home” (thanks allot Bush). This is something that must be earned, as we are learning the hard way.
We need to stop relying on politicians and do more without them, together. Power corrupts even the best of intentions. How many times must we see this before we wake up and believe it?
February 13th, 2009 at 6:38 pmWe all took the same risks.
No, we didn’t… should we?
Governments role is to make opportunity fair. What an individual does with that opportunity is there responsibility.
Fair enough… I assume then that you are for fully funded public education up through graduate school for those that can get accepted? No more ‘legacy’ admissions, right?
That’s a good start… universal healthcare, too… right? I mean, everyone should have the same opportunity to see a doctor and be healthy, right?
And improved Public Transportation… so everyone has the opportunity to travel around not just their cities but this great nation, correct?
Wow, Independant sic- it makes a lot of sense when I put it that way…
February 13th, 2009 at 6:38 pmJust like the fake belief that tax cuts solve all economic problems and that abstanence is the best birth control, it is now our time and our duty to work tirelessly to put this myth to rest once and for all.
This was started by Gingrich, Limbaugh and their ilk. It is completely false and is proven once you open the pages of the WSJ or WaPo editorials. Turn the dial to MSNBC Morning Joe or FNC any time of the day. Go to Drudge or Politico.
The media slants right. It APPEARS left to them because they cannot get the entire country to follow their horrible policies unless the media is a bunch of brainless followers that don’t dare question them.
February 13th, 2009 at 6:38 pmIndependant,
February 13th, 2009 at 6:38 pmthat website you provided the link to sounds like something that freak grover norquist would be behind according to their “about us” link. i tend not to take neither advice nor leadership from anyone named after a muppett.
More Krauthammer complaints:
http://archive.deseretnews.com/archive/586991/Cheer-up-Conservatism-is-actually-winning-not-failing.html
“The only people who think this wasn’t a victory are Upper West Side liberals and a few people here in Washington,” said conservative columnist Charles Krauthammer.”
“Yes, Sarah Palin didn’t know what it is[(the Bush Doctrine)]. But neither does Charlie Gibson. And at least she didn’t pretend to know — while he looked down his nose and over his glasses with weary disdain, sighing and “sounding like an impatient teacher,” as the Times noted. In doing so, he captured perfectly the establishment snobbery and intellectual condescension that has characterized the chattering classes’ reaction to the mother of five who presumes to play on their stage.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/12/AR2008091202457_pf.html
Then K. cloaks his complaints as critiques: “It is a lot easier to be in opposition, it is easier to criticize [...] It is actually more challenging when the side you are ideologically attuned with is in power,” says Krauthammer”
February 13th, 2009 at 6:40 pmhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/13/conservative-columnists-e_n_166615.html?page=4
bentley1 Says:
I am so tired of this bullshit, better hope your health holds up,I don’t want to help a selfish pig like you,
I have give roughly 20% of my humble earnings to various charities ever since I took my first job. How about you?
Every year my family give Thanksgiving meals to 3 families in need. (anonymously) How about you?
These are only a couple of examples, but my point is that it should be a choice.
February 13th, 2009 at 6:41 pmBozo The Neoclown Says:
Independant,
that website you provided the link to sounds like something that freak grover norquist would be behind according to their “about us” link. i tend not to take neither advice nor leadership from anyone named after a muppett.
Ok. Than Google ‘who pays taxes’ and take your choice. They agree.
February 13th, 2009 at 6:43 pmI just spent three days in a hospital that didn’t have a working toilet or supposedly tissues
February 13th, 2009 at 6:43 pmBut they did stick me on the fifth floor where they like to stick the disabled and underinsured.
So stick it
And when I was still able to work despite being legally blind people like you objected to me recieiving disability payments
Like I said you’re probably going to need help someday, kand the fact you didn’t seek it for your own family says it all
tony and lido
.
Charles Krauthammer said:
.
February 13th, 2009 at 6:45 pmbentley1 Says:
I just spent three days in a hospital that didn’t have a working toilet or supposedly tissues
But they did stick me on the fifth floor where they like to stick the disabled and underinsured.
So stick it
And when I was still able to work despite being legally blind people like you objected to me recieiving disability payments
Like I said you’re probably going to need help someday, kand the fact you didn’t seek it for your own family says it all
tony and lido
I have needed help many times in my life and will need help plenty more, I am sure. I get help because I help others and I believe that goodness pays itself back.
February 13th, 2009 at 6:46 pmWhat you are saying is that without government enforcement, you will not have help!! That is my point exactly. Why are you afraid to rely on your fellow citizens?
To bad he has such a bad memory. The prerequisite for being on the right and in the media, is the ability to retain selective memory. Or failing that the ability to lie, forgetting that somewhere if you are loud enough and around enough, there is a record of what you say on a given day.
February 13th, 2009 at 6:46 pmBeat you own chest much, too?
February 13th, 2009 at 6:49 pmCan’t say I can afford to do that.
I help the guide dog school I graduated from as much as possible
tony and lido
PS when you’re treated like a piece of shit because you’re disabled and considered usless like you consider me get back to me
take a hike
Check any of the threads dealing with that subject. It has been much discussed.
This thread, however, is about Charles Krauthammer and his complaints about the “liberal media”.
Do you understand the concept of “progressive taxation”?
No use going further if you don’t.
You mean, like taking it from the middle class and redistributing it to the wealthiest, as happened under the Bush administration?
You obviously skipped the “provide for the Common Good” part of the Constitution.
I thought you guys were all concerned about the deficit (now that a Democrat is in the White House, that is). What do you supposed would happen to the deficit if the federal government collected no tax revenue for an entire fiscal year?
There is. It’s called “government by the people, of the people and for the people.”
I agree. Let’s stop taking from the middle class and redistributing to the wealthiest Americans.
In the case of helping the less=well-off, it is because the economy runs better when there is a more even distribution of wealth across a society.
In the case of the wealthiest gaining greater and greater shares of the national wealth, it’s because they can.
Who said that was in the Constitution? It’s an odd thing to say, for sure.
Good point. Economic policies rigged to favor the monied at the expense of the middle class and poor do not make opportunity fair.
Yeah, the ones who will be “rescued” are the bankers and finance people who took all the risks and sold them off only to come to DC begging for the Golden parachutes to be be propped up once their giant ponzi scheme went bust.
February 13th, 2009 at 6:51 pmWell, at least we know “Independant” isn’t a Christian.
February 13th, 2009 at 6:51 pmmy fellow citizens would rather run me and lido over than yield as the crosswalk
February 13th, 2009 at 6:51 pmI know more of the real world than you ever will.
as=us
February 13th, 2009 at 6:52 pmHas this chain of events been by plan or accident over the last 20 years:
*) mock anyone who says they had it harder, or a disability, or a lack of fairness
February 13th, 2009 at 6:52 pm*) The liberals backed off.
*) a vacuum develops
* )fill the vacuum with repubs talking about how unfair it is to their 7 figure incomes
The guy looks like he’s been hit with an ugly stick.
February 13th, 2009 at 6:55 pmI am very tired of being my brothers keeper.
Well, at least we know “Independant” isn’t a Christian.
Is he threatening to kill the poor? After all, aren’t those Cain’s words to God?
February 13th, 2009 at 6:55 pmbelac Says:
We all took the same risks.
No, we didn’t… should we?
Governments role is to make opportunity fair. What an individual does with that opportunity is there responsibility.
Fair enough… I assume then that you are for fully funded public education up through graduate school for those that can get accepted? No more ‘legacy’ admissions, right?
That’s a good start… universal healthcare, too… right? I mean, everyone should have the same opportunity to see a doctor and be healthy, right?
And improved Public Transportation… so everyone has the opportunity to travel around not just their cities but this great nation, correct?
Wow, Independant sic- it makes a lot of sense when I put it that way…
That would be making the result the same, not the opportunity.
Result: getting to where I want to go
Opportunity: roads. not transportation.
By your logic, we all have the right to a car rather than the opportunity to earn money to buy one myself.
Result: college degree
Opportunity: public education through 12th grade.
By your logic, everyone deserves a college degree, even those that never open a book.
Result: health care
Opportunity: equal access to doctors.
By your logic, doctors should just give away there hard earned skill because we all deserve to be in perfect health.
Most of us that actually contribute to our health care go to the doctor less. We can’t afford it. What about those that don’t contribute? What stops them from going to a doctor on the taxpayer’s $$??
February 13th, 2009 at 6:57 pmand Krauthmmer is a ridiculous psychiolgist, writer who sure
February 13th, 2009 at 6:57 pmlearned his denial methods well
belac Says:
I am very tired of being my brothers keeper.
Well, at least we know “Independant” isn’t a Christian.
Is he threatening to kill the poor? After all, aren’t those Cain’s words to God?
I am Lutheran. I do not go to church every Sunday, but try to go at least once a month. God helps those who help themselves!! Read the bible much?
February 13th, 2009 at 7:01 pmGod does not force anything on any of us. We have free will, per GOD. Again, I promote helping each other out. MY POINT IS THAT IT SHOULD BE A CHOICE.
Yep, the doctors who talk to you for 40 seconds in the hospital and charge 2000 are really in the poor house.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:01 pmOr do you mean the ones who buy a new Licoln Town Car on one
months income
You sure have a wierd sense of privelege?
tony and lido
Zooey Says:
The guy looks like he’s been hit with an ugly stick.
I have no argument on this one. Thanks for the levity.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:01 pmIndependant Says:
I am Lutheran. I do not go to church every Sunday, but try to go at least once a month. God helps those who help themselves!! Read the bible much?
God does not force anything on any of us. We have free will, per GOD. Again, I promote helping each other out. MY POINT IS THAT IT SHOULD BE A CHOICE.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
If you’ve read the bible, you know that God’s answer to Cain’s question, “Am I my brother’s keeper?” was YES.
Obviously, you don’t read the bible at all.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:05 pmAnyone who professes to be a Christian who says with a straight face, “I am very tired of being my brothers keeper” as an explanation for his political views does not read the same Bible I have read.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:05 pmbentley1 Says:
Yep, the doctors who talk to you for 40 seconds in the hospital and charge 2000 are really in the poor house.
Or do you mean the ones who buy a new Licoln Town Car on one
months income
You sure have a wierd sense of privelege?
tony and lido
How much of the $2000 grand goes to the doctor??
February 13th, 2009 at 7:06 pmBy the way, shouldn’t a person that makes life and death decisions everyday earn much more that someone who’s major daily decision is where to eat lunch? Be fair!!!
Doctors live a life that I wouldn’t wish on any one. If it wasn’t for their daily sacrifices… Sure, not all of them, but more than not.
Read it again, sick Independant sic…
Roads work for those who can afford cars- Public Transit gives everyone the Opportunity to commute to jobs… not just those who can afford to.
Colleges accept those who can pay- true Public Education would give everyone the same access to colleges and universities- those who did crack a book would get in and graduate, those who didn’t would not- even if their Daddy’s bought the school a new stadium… no legacies.
Universal Health Care would actually save us money and jobs. No more manufacturers going bankrupt paying for health insurance, no more people putting of preventative medicine and ending up in the emergency room… doctors would still be well paid and thanks to free education they’d have much less to pay back in student loans ($0) and would start at a much better financial place… and we’d have more doctors from smaller communities and in smaller communities…
That would make the opportunities the same and leave the results up to the individual… not up to “accidents” such as your parentage or place of birth…
February 13th, 2009 at 7:06 pm#
ralph the wonder llama Says:
Anyone who professes to be a Christian who says with a straight face, “I am very tired of being my brothers keeper” as an explanation for his political views does not read the same Bible I have read.
Bull!! Once again no support for you claim. Even a chapter would be something.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:08 pmWhere in the bible does it say that I must be my brothers keeper??? No where.
“By the way, shouldn’t a person that makes life and death decisions everyday earn much more that someone who’s major daily decision is where to eat lunch? Be fair!!!
you mean like the wall street bankers we bailed out?
February 13th, 2009 at 7:08 pmLiberal Bias in the “Liberal Media”…
…yeah, right….just another conservative lie…
…anyone who actually pays attention to the news knows this is BS.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:08 pmLiberal media:
February 13th, 2009 at 7:09 pmwhen the media doesn’t lick the jackboots of the likes of rush limpballs, angry trannie annie coulter, tokyo rose malkin etal. 24 hours a day.
I’m suppose to feel sorry for someone who decided to go into the medical field.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:10 pmAnd you really believe they went into it for altruistic reasons?
This system was created and supported by the medical industry and they are to be blamed for the problems they brought upon their own
tony and lido
benmaller Says:
Zooey Says:
The guy looks like he’s been hit with an ugly stick.
Finally some intelligent commentary from you.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:05 pm
Get bent, imbecile.
We’re all waiting for your intelligent commentary.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:10 pmWhere in the bible does it say that I must be my brothers keeper??? No where.
So you don’t have to be… but GOD will make you a vagabond who can’t till the earth (raise food) if you aren’t… I say, go for it INDEPENDANT! Turn from the Lord… hee… you guys is CRAZY!
February 13th, 2009 at 7:12 pmWhat our new friend “Independant” doesn’t understand, and probably never will understand, is that liberal social policies — providing a safety net, progressive tax policies — are formulated and advanced because they promote a more stable economy and just society, not in some misguided attempt at “making results fair”.
Conservative “laissez faire” policies spark a party for a little while but lead inevitably to a greater gap between the rich and poor, a shrinking middle class and eventually economic collapse.
in short, they don’t work, except to enrich further those who already have.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:13 pmIndependant Says:
Bull!! Once again no support for you claim. Even a chapter would be something.
Where in the bible does it say that I must be my brothers keeper??? No where.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:08 pm
It’s the bible as a whole, genius. Of course, having not read the bible, you wouldn’t know that.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:13 pmbelac Says:
Read it again, sick Independant sic…
Roads work for those who can afford cars- Public Transit gives everyone the Opportunity to commute to jobs… not just those who can afford to.
Colleges accept those who can pay- true Public Education would give everyone the same access to colleges and universities- those who did crack a book would get in and graduate, those who didn’t would not- even if their Daddy’s bought the school a new stadium… no legacies.
Universal Health Care would actually save us money and jobs. No more manufacturers going bankrupt paying for health insurance, no more people putting of preventative medicine and ending up in the emergency room… doctors would still be well paid and thanks to free education they’d have much less to pay back in student loans ($0) and would start at a much better financial place… and we’d have more doctors from smaller communities and in smaller communities…
That would make the opportunities the same and leave the results up to the individual… not up to “accidents” such as your parentage or place of birth…
You are saying that the hard work that you put in now should not benefit your children??? REALLY??
I had to walk to my first job. I then saved up enough to buy a piece of crap car that probably shouldn’t have been on the road. I then kept working with set backs and successes to improve my situation. I paid my tuition by working 2 jobs while going through school. Where was my hand out???
The fairness is not in money, but opportunity. The best success stories are those that start with nothing. How many of those stories include a government hand out?
I bet (just an thought) that if you look at the history of successful and rich families, you will find one person that got them there with hard work. Grant it, not all, but I wonder how many.
Once again, MY POINT IS THAT IT SHOULD BE A CHOICE. Do you have any faith in your neighbors?
February 13th, 2009 at 7:14 pmSo your position is that the Bible does NOT call for us to be our brother’s keeper?
Seriously?
I think even Daryll would take issue with that.
What am I saying? Of course he wouldn’t.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:15 pmZooey Says:
Independant Says:
Bull!! Once again no support for you claim. Even a chapter would be something.
Where in the bible does it say that I must be my brothers keeper??? No where.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:08 pm
It’s the bible as a whole, genius. Of course, having not read the bible, you wouldn’t know that.
WOW. The whole bible says that? Really?? Name one page, just one little page. Can you?
February 13th, 2009 at 7:17 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
What our new friend “Independant” doesn’t understand, and probably never will understand, is that liberal social policies — providing a safety net, progressive tax policies — are formulated and advanced because they promote a more stable economy and just society, not in some misguided attempt at “making results fair”.
Conservative “laissez faire” policies spark a party for a little while but lead inevitably to a greater gap between the rich and poor, a shrinking middle class and eventually economic collapse.
in short, they don’t work, except to enrich further those who already have.
Really? Than why was President Carter a one term wonder? He had similar circumstances with the economy and tried his liberal policies. What happened?
February 13th, 2009 at 7:20 pmIndependant Says:
WOW. The whole bible says that? Really?? Name one page, just one little page. Can you?
February 13th, 2009 at 7:17 pm
Ok, I’ll try again. I’ll type slowly…
If you read the whole bible, then close the cover and put it down — and then sit back and think about it for a while — yes, God says I am my brother’s keeper.
Understand?
BTW, I learned all this as a child in in Sunday school. I guess you weren’t paying attention.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:20 pmKrauthammer is a Nazi, Krauthammer was a Nazi, Krauthammer will always be a Nazi!
February 13th, 2009 at 7:21 pmWhere in the bible does it say that I must be my brothers keeper??? No where
According to the bible Jesus said this:
Mathew 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me.
Now, you don’t have to base your life on the bible’s teachings (I don’t really recommend it) but if you want to you can’t argue that these things aren’t in there…
February 13th, 2009 at 7:21 pmbelac Says:
Where in the bible does it say that I must be my brothers keeper??? No where.
GENESIS 4:9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother’s keeper?
GENESIS 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother’s blood crieth unto me from the ground.
GENESIS 4:11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother’s blood from thy hand;
GENESIS 4:12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
So you don’t have to be… but GOD will make you a vagabond who can’t till the earth (raise food) if you aren’t… I say, go for it INDEPENDANT! Turn from the Lord… hee… you guys is CRAZY!
Finally, some substance. Thank you for the support. FREE WILL. Not government enforcement.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:22 pmZoo, I have a pretty strong suspicion that our Independant (sic) friend is one of our familiar trolls under a new name, just yankin’ our collective chain.
I mean, come on — no one could seriously believe that the Bible doesn’t say you are your brother’s keeper.
It’s gotta be a put-on.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:23 pmbelac Says:
Where in the bible does it say that I must be my brothers keeper??? No where
According to the bible Jesus said this:
Mathew 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me.
Now, you don’t have to base your life on the bible’s teachings (I don’t really recommend it) but if you want to you can’t argue that these things aren’t in there…
This is not saying that I must be my brothers keeper. It is saying that as you treat others, you treat me. Me being Jesus.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:24 pmI’ve noticed that when the trolls are particularly uncertain of their own intellect, they become especially belligerent and obnoxious about calling into question the intellect of others.
Anyone else?
February 13th, 2009 at 7:25 pmTry to get a job with a disablity, then we’ll talk about fairness.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:26 pmThe blind population has one of the highest unemployed-underemployed rates in the country.
Fact:
I seriouslly doubt you would hire a disabled individual
tony and lido
ralph the wonder llama Says:
Zoo, I have a pretty strong suspicion that our Independant (sic) friend is one of our familiar trolls under a new name, just yankin’ our collective chain.
I mean, come on — no one could seriously believe that the Bible doesn’t say you are your brother’s keeper.
It’s gotta be a put-on.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:23 pm
Or simply another witless wonder. ;)
February 13th, 2009 at 7:28 pmIndependant, if you need a book or writings from a couple thousand of years ago to justify your existence as a human being, you have my sympathies. If you can look upon suffering and turn a cold heart to it, you have my sympathies. If you aren’t your brothers keeper, I hope you are an only child.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:31 pmWhatever. You live your life the way you see fit. Maybe Maybe St. Peter will be kind to you when the time comes.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:31 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
Zoo, I have a pretty strong suspicion that our Independant (sic) friend is one of our familiar trolls under a new name, just yankin’ our collective chain.
I mean, come on — no one could seriously believe that the Bible doesn’t say you are your brother’s keeper.
It’s gotta be a put-on.
That is what you believe. That is faith. I will not argue that. My point is that it should be a choice. Do you disagree?
February 13th, 2009 at 7:32 pmYou are saying that the hard work that you put in now should not benefit your children??? REALLY??
No, I’m saying that ALL children should be given the SAME opportunities regardless of parentage… which is what you CLAIM you are saying but you’re really saying the opposite… You think it’s fine for some people to sit on their butts and never crack a book as long as their great-grand pappy worked hard building a thimble empire… right?
February 13th, 2009 at 7:34 pmNo, Independent is saying it is all about what is in it for him. He has no heart.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:36 pmThis is not saying that I must be my brothers keeper. It is saying that as you treat others, you treat me. Me being Jesus.
Not others… the least… in the story he is specifically referring to those who you would guess are not God’s chosen people… Jesus is saying “the one’s you would spurn? Those are my peeps…” read it again.
You claim it’s important to you…
February 13th, 2009 at 7:37 pmbentley1 Says:
Try to get a job with a disablity, then we’ll talk about fairness.
The blind population has one of the highest unemployed-underemployed rates in the country.
Fact:
I seriouslly doubt you would hire a disabled individual
tony and lido
To be honest, I have never had the opportunity. But when I do, I will not look at the disability but only if the work can be done. As a manager, it would be my job to ensure the company has the best possible candidate to fill any position. What a person can and can’t do would be a big part of that. Would I hire a blind person as an air traffic controller, no. But would I hire a blind person as an accountant? If they had the best qualifications and could save the company money, in a heart beat.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:38 pmDon’t try to make me something I am not. You keep skirting the issue. We should be able to choose as individuals who we help and how we help them. NO government has the right to make us do otherwise. They only have power to make it happen.
In the interest of full disclosure: I am not a believer in god.
Having said that, there are many valuable lessons contained in the bible — and a lot of sick f uck shit.
I don’t need the Invisible Sky Fairy to write something in a book in order to be a decent human being — and recognize that we humans ought to care for one another.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:38 pmNo it’s not “faith” it’s a judgment based on the evidence you’ve displayed here. Your schtick seems very familiar, your attitude and your style of language seems familiar, and your professed understanding of the message of Jesus seems designed to provoke, nothing more.
Your concept of government is equally foreign to me, and your “rugged individualist” strain of libertarianism appears to be just an excuse for selfishness and resentment.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:39 pmAnd who appointed you Dog of Decision, Ineptendant? By your own belief, god’s plan is inscrutable, his instructions to you are not.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:41 pmbelac Says:
This is not saying that I must be my brothers keeper. It is saying that as you treat others, you treat me. Me being Jesus.
Not others… the least… in the story he is specifically referring to those who you would guess are not God’s chosen people… Jesus is saying “the one’s you would spurn? Those are my peeps…” read it again.
You claim it’s important to you…
Isn’t that what I am saying? It is the example of helping anyone that comes to your door, because it might be Jesus. Right?
You are not addressing my point. Who we help and how we help them should be a choice. Do you disagree?
February 13th, 2009 at 7:41 pm#
ralph the wonder llama Says:
Independant Says:
ralph the wonder llama Says:
Zoo, I have a pretty strong suspicion that our Independant (sic) friend is one of our familiar trolls under a new name, just yankin’ our collective chain.
I mean, come on — no one could seriously believe that the Bible doesn’t say you are your brother’s keeper.
It’s gotta be a put-on.
That is what you believe. That is faith. I will not argue that. My point is that it should be a choice. Do you disagree?
No it’s not “faith” it’s a judgment based on the evidence you’ve displayed here. Your schtick seems very familiar, your attitude and your style of language seems familiar, and your professed understanding of the message of Jesus seems designed to provoke, nothing more.
Your concept of government is equally foreign to me, and your “rugged individualist” strain of libertarianism appears to be just an excuse for selfishness and resentment.
How am I being selfish? There is only one thing that human beings have that can not be taken. FREE WILL. No matter what, each of us has the power to say no. Right?? Isn’t that what God has set in motion?
My point is that who we help and how we help them should be a choice. Do you disagree?
February 13th, 2009 at 7:43 pmBy your own logic, Inept, if you chooses not to help (whether you know it is Jebus at your door or not) you violate the choice your supposed faith says you should have.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:44 pm‘Judge not, lest ye be judged.’
February 13th, 2009 at 7:44 pmcranks like Krap-hammer recreate the altered reality they live in, continuously.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:47 pmInept, your choice was made when you made Jebus your savior, you handed the choice making over to a higher authority. By your own decision.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:47 pmWho we help and how we help them should be a choice. Do you disagree?
Sure- you can choose to be selfish… but We the People (the Government in these United States) can also choose collectively to help the poor and the sick and those who need an education and it is STILL a choice…
Oh, and you don’t help those that come to the door ’cause it might be Jesus, Jesus! You help them ’cause they need help, ’cause they’re human, ’cause we help each other… religion has no ‘points’ it is not a hidden camera show.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:48 pmHoodathunk Says:
By your own logic, Inept, if you chooses not to help (whether you know it is Jebus at your door or not) you violate the choice your supposed faith says you should have.
I don’t get what you are trying to say here. I think that what you are trying to say is that because of what I believe, choosing not to help would be a violation of that belief. If I am putting words in your mouth, I apologize. I am trying to make sure I understand your comment.
That is not what I am saying. What I am trying to say is that it should be a choice. Do you disagree?
February 13th, 2009 at 7:48 pmNo come back, Independant?
February 13th, 2009 at 7:50 pmYes, I disagree because the tenet of your faith says when you had your life to Jesus, you live by his choices, not yours.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:51 pmHis choices are charity and compassion for all.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:51 pmIs Independant (sic) saying god gave us free will? Where in the bible did you find that? Chapter and verse, please.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:52 pmand I meant hand your life
February 13th, 2009 at 7:52 pmSome select quotes from our newly-rechristened guest:
How is it fair that a government can take money from someone who works for it and gives it to someone who doesn’t?
Why is money taken from one group and going to another?
We all took the same risks, but now some will be “rescued” and those that pay their mortgage are left holding the bill.
I am very tired of being my brothers keeper.
We take the risk so we take the reward or failure.
Sounds very much in line with what John Kenneth Galbraith was talking about when he said:
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:52 pmRalph, that is an argument they will always lose.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:56 pmThat is priceless, ralph.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:57 pmZooey, the whole idea of free will has been argued since the dawn of man. The Bible has no real answer to it.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:57 pmbelac Says:
Who we help and how we help them should be a choice. Do you disagree?
Sure- you can choose to be selfish… but We the People (the Government in these United States) can also choose collectively to help the poor and the sick and those who need an education and it is STILL a choice…
Oh, and you don’t help those that come to the door ’cause it might be Jesus, Jesus! You help them ’cause they need help, ’cause they’re human, ’cause we help each other… religion has no ‘points’ it is not a hidden camera show.
First, I would help anyone that I can, really. Be it someone on the side of the road in need (how many of you have change a flat for a stranded stranger?) That is my belief.
Second, if we collectively decided this, why do we need government to take money? Why isn’t it given freely? There are many religious charities and many local non profits set up to help people. Those of us that use these services know this. If we all decided that this is what we want to do, than why isn’t it being done without government enforcement?
February 13th, 2009 at 7:57 pmDon’t worry Indi, I wouldn’t take help from someone as selfish as you anyway.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:58 pmAnd I still mantain you would never hire a disabled person
Never.
You probably wouldn’t even give them a serious inteview.
tony and lido
Hey, Independant, you want to know the real pisser? I’m not a Christian.
February 13th, 2009 at 7:59 pmBut even worse, old Jeshua, son of a carpenter, had rock solid ideas.
February 13th, 2009 at 8:00 pmStill think that thimble magnate’s grandkids should be free to sit on their butts, Independant sic?
February 13th, 2009 at 8:00 pmZooey Says:
Is Independant (sic) saying god gave us free will? Where in the bible did you find that? Chapter and verse, please.
There are many examples. Here is one.
Deuteronomy 30:15 “See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil, 16 “in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that you may live and multiply; and the Lord your God will bless you in the land which you go to possess. 17 “But if your heart turns away so that you do not hear, and are drawn away, and worship other gods and serve them, 18 “I announce to you today that you shall surely perish; you shall not prolong [your] days in the land which you cross over the Jordan to go in and possess. 19 “I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live.
February 13th, 2009 at 8:03 pmThey just don’t make decent trolls these days.
February 13th, 2009 at 8:03 pmIndependant Says:
Second, if we collectively decided this, why do we need government to take money? Why isn’t it given freely? There are many religious charities and many local non profits set up to help people. Those of us that use these services know this. If we all decided that this is what we want to do, than why isn’t it being done without government enforcement?
You could voluntarily decide to pay for a fire department, or a police department, or someone to monitor your food supply and protect you from peanut vendors who leave rat crap in your food. Why single out social services? This is a representative democracy and we collectively decided we were willing to be taxed in order to render services we may never use — including helping the poor and putting our fires when you try to thaw a lock with a blowtorch.
February 13th, 2009 at 8:04 pmIndependant Says:
There are many examples. Here is one.
Deuteronomy 30:15 “See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil, 16 “in that I command you…
February 13th, 2009 at 8:03 pm
Ummmm, I think god just nixed your argument about free will.
February 13th, 2009 at 8:04 pmInept, in case you missed the memo, your little buddy brought the updated version of life in the New Testament.
Did you convert to Judaism?
February 13th, 2009 at 8:05 pmIf we all decided that this is what we want to do, than why isn’t it being done without government enforcement?
Why do we have a standing army? Why do we have interstate highways? Why do we have an electrical grid?
Certainly these are all things that could be done individually and in the private sector, no?
But some things We the People decide are important enough to We the People as a Nation to do them collectively… ’cause a bunch of individual and private railroads and highways and power grids and militias doesn’t make sense and makes us weaker… it’s been tried and found lacking. As have you… time to grow up, industrialized nations should have equal opportunity for all… that means EQUAL opportunity- see my above posts…
February 13th, 2009 at 8:06 pmFor those who missed the banner…”I am the Way and the Life…no one gets unto the Father but by me.”
Old Testament=mythology?
February 13th, 2009 at 8:06 pmSomehow, to our Independant (sic) friend, Deuteronomy 30:15-19 says there’s free will, but Genesis 4(-12 does NOT say we are our brother’s keeper.
Weird.
February 13th, 2009 at 8:07 pmThat’s because it’s the same troll.
I’m tellin’ ya.
February 13th, 2009 at 8:08 pmdammit gummitch!
February 13th, 2009 at 8:10 pmokay read his, it’s better Independant sic but the idea’s the same…
Independant Says:
Zooey Says:
Is Independant (sic) saying god gave us free will? Where in the bible did you find that? Chapter and verse, please.
There are many examples. Here is one.
That’s a great one, all right. Except what it actually says is you can choose to exercise your free will but if you turn away from God you’re going to be in deep sh!t. And not only you, but your children and your children’s children. Not so much with the free will stuff.
I would suggest reading Luke and Matthew if you want a clue about the Christian attitude toward the poor.
February 13th, 2009 at 8:10 pmRaph, you mean because Lassie is barking that Timmeh feel in the well, she really means this putz?
February 13th, 2009 at 8:11 pmI need a cup of coffee.
February 13th, 2009 at 8:13 pmHoodathunk, you just blew my mind.
February 13th, 2009 at 8:13 pmI hate it that just when folks get on a roll making trolls look incredibly stupid, they cut and run.
February 13th, 2009 at 8:15 pmHoodathunk Says:
I need a cup of coffee.
February 13th, 2009 at 8:13 pm
I need a wine Big Gulp. :-D
February 13th, 2009 at 8:16 pmeven worse rhf, it makes gob into a monster. Omniscient, omnipotent and still tells folks they get to decide? The old, you get to decide but I already know what you will decide’ bit is just tacky.
February 13th, 2009 at 8:17 pmSorry, Zooey, wine makes me sneeze. But a bit o the Irish in me coffee is tonic to sooth the nerves.
February 13th, 2009 at 8:18 pmAwww, man… you guys had another live one here.
Heh… he sure was a determined li’l cuss, wasn’t he?
Ya knocked him down… he got back up.
Ya knocked him down… he got back up.
Make sure ya throw him back after ya tag him.
February 13th, 2009 at 8:18 pmHoodathunk Says:
I hate it that just when folks get on a roll making trolls look incredibly stupid, they cut and run.
________________
Whack-A-Troll™… the Sport of Kings…
February 13th, 2009 at 8:20 pmYeah but now its all dressed up and no dance to go to.
February 13th, 2009 at 8:21 pmHoodathunk Says:
Sorry, Zooey, wine makes me sneeze. But a bit o the Irish in me coffee is tonic to sooth the nerves.
February 13th, 2009 at 8:18 pm
That’s weird. Wine gives me a nice buzzzzzz….
February 13th, 2009 at 8:25 pmAw, do we hafta tag ‘im?
It’s such a hassle gettin’ those plastic tags on those little bitty fins.
February 13th, 2009 at 8:30 pmralph,
Fish & Game has no sense of humor about untagged trolls — in or out of season.
February 13th, 2009 at 8:33 pmgummitch Says:
——————————————————————————–
Independant Says:
Zooey Says:
Is Independant (sic) saying god gave us free will? Where in the bible did you find that? Chapter and verse, please.
There are many examples. Here is one.
That’s a great one, all right. Except what it actually says is you can choose to exercise your free will but if you turn away from God you’re going to be in deep sh!t. And not only you, but your children and your children’s children. Not so much with the free will stuff.
I would suggest reading Luke and Matthew if you want a clue about the Christian attitude toward the poor.
Thank you for proving my point.
February 13th, 2009 at 8:58 pmIt’s easy to get on a roll after having three days of steroids pumped into you.
February 13th, 2009 at 9:01 pmI haven’t ranted and raged this much since the trolls on salon table talk. Before they charged more than cable tv for using it.
tony and lido
Independant Says:
Thank you for proving my point.
February 13th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
It’s so cute how you fail to highlight the part of gummitch’s comment that disproves your point quite thoroughly.
I think you’ve just gotten booted from the Independant (sic) club, and into the piss-soaked Republican troll cesspool.
Congrats!
February 13th, 2009 at 9:03 pmThank you for proving my point.
February 13th, 2009 at 8:58 pm Recommend (0) | Report Abuse
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February 13th, 2009 at 9:05 pm
I like the idea of having free will unless it isn’t what God wants?
Did I put too much Irish in my coffee?
February 13th, 2009 at 9:07 pmI need me a bottle of Ripple right now.
February 13th, 2009 at 9:08 pmHoodathunk Says:
Did I put too much Irish in my coffee?
___________
Either that, or not enough…
February 13th, 2009 at 9:09 pmReminds me of those TV ads where they will send you something for free. As long as you pay shipping and handling. And maybe a service charge. But the piece of crap they send you is free.
February 13th, 2009 at 9:11 pmCatch you later folks.
February 13th, 2009 at 9:12 pmtony and lido
Time to wander. Niters all, been fun.
February 13th, 2009 at 9:13 pmbelac Says:
——————————————————————————–
If we all decided that this is what we want to do, than why isn’t it being done without government enforcement?
Why do we have a standing army? Why do we have interstate highways? Why do we have an electrical grid?
Certainly these are all things that could be done individually and in the private sector, no?
But some things We the People decide are important enough to We the People as a Nation to do them collectively… ’cause a bunch of individual and private railroads and highways and power grids and militias doesn’t make sense and makes us weaker… it’s been tried and found lacking. As have you… time to grow up, industrialized nations should have equal opportunity for all… that means EQUAL opportunity- see my above posts…
I have, and thank you for the some good points. Obviously I don’t agree, but I appreciate the debate. In the end, I will do what I believe is best for my family, my community, my country, and my fellow man. In the end, that is what we all do. I, like many of you, am very passionate about my views because I do care, just like you. What I think I am realizing is that I have more faith in people. Every day you and me people will help each other, despite what any government policy is in effect. This plan will not help us as a whole, it can’t. The key to progressive taxation is Socialism. ie the European union.
I started by asking who will pay for this stimulus. My follow up question is where is the money going to come from? Are we going to print it? Are we going to borrow? Either way it will increase our debt which means we will need more taxes to pay it off.
From the Constitution Of The United States Of America
regarding the powers of congress. For you first timers, enjoy.
Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;
To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;
To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;
To establish post offices and post roads;
To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;
To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;
To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;
To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;
To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;
To provide and maintain a navy;
To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;
To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;–And
To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.
February 13th, 2009 at 9:19 pmGoodnight, bentley & Hoodathunk.
It’s been fun. I think I’m outta here too. :)
February 13th, 2009 at 9:20 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
——————————————————————————–
Independant, if God knows the future and created the past, present and future – you have NO FREE WILL! If he created you KNOWING what you’d do, then you are FORCED to do it by his creation… This is party of why the JooDayOh/XTian mythos has always been questioned, debated and even debunked by thinking individuals. An omnipotent and omniscient God who can see the future he created by existence negates free will…
So all is as it should be. How very Zen of you.
February 13th, 2009 at 9:24 pmZooey Says:
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Independant Says:
Thank you for proving my point.
February 13th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
It’s so cute how you fail to highlight the part of gummitch’s comment that disproves your point quite thoroughly.
I think you’ve just gotten booted from the Independant (sic) club, and into the piss-soaked Republican troll cesspool.
Congrats!
Which part? Please enlighten me.
February 13th, 2009 at 9:26 pmWe should probably hold off on posting something about Krauthammer until he a) says something intellectually honest or b) factually accurate. Yes, that might take a while.
http://www.pufferfishblog.com/
February 13th, 2009 at 9:36 pmIndependant Says:
Which part? Please enlighten me.
February 13th, 2009 at 9:26 pm
That’s so interesting, Indy, because we can only enlighten ourselves. If you’re interested in enlightening yourself, step outside your tiny world, open your mind, and learn.
February 13th, 2009 at 9:36 pmI have to say, this is rapidly becoming one of my favorite troll tactics — no matter what someone else says, claim that it “proves your point” with no further explanation.
It’s so… efficient.
February 13th, 2009 at 9:46 pmZooey Says:
——————————————————————————–
Independant Says:
Which part? Please enlighten me.
February 13th, 2009 at 9:26 pm
That’s so interesting, Indy, because we can only enlighten ourselves. If you’re interested in enlightening yourself, step outside your tiny world, open your mind, and learn.
Ok. Which part? Please show me what you mean and support your claim? Thank you.
February 13th, 2009 at 9:50 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
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ndependant Says:
gummitch Says:
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Independant Says:
Zooey Says:
Is Independant (sic) saying god gave us free will? Where in the bible did you find that? Chapter and verse, please.
There are many examples. Here is one.
That’s a great one, all right. Except what it actually says is you can choose to exercise your free will but if you turn away from God you’re going to be in deep sh!t. And not only you, but your children and your children’s children. Not so much with the free will stuff.
I would suggest reading Luke and Matthew if you want a clue about the Christian attitude toward the poor.
Thank you for proving my point.
I have to say, this is rapidly becoming one of my favorite troll tactics — no matter what someone else says, claim that it “proves your point” with no further explanation.
It’s so… efficient.
Funny, my entry had this part in bold
you can choose to exercise your free will
And isn’t that what I have been saying? Do you disagree?
February 13th, 2009 at 9:53 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
I have to say, this is rapidly becoming one of my favorite troll tactics — no matter what someone else says, claim that it “proves your point” with no further explanation.
It’s so… efficient.
February 13th, 2009 at 9:46 pm
I like how the troll deliberately “misunderstands” or cherry-picks what we say, and then demands explanation after explanation.
We should come up with a troll syllabus, it’s probably not fair to let them flail around like this…
February 13th, 2009 at 9:59 pmSo, we have discussed the bible enough for a string about a whinner that claims not to whine. Yes, I realize I started us off the path, but I didn’t see one about the stimulus, so…
What about an answer to my original question. Who is going to pay for ALL of the stimulus/bailout plans that we have allready spent, are about to spend, and will spend again after this one falls short too?
The taxpayers. We are not talking about a few billion. Between the last bailout and this stimulus we are over a trillion (wow, TRILLION) dollars farther in debt.
The last administration screwed up the growth that President Reagan started and President Clinton continued, and now this one is going to add to the mess.
Is this plan really what is best for all of us? Is there a plan to start paying it back?
What about the idea of no income taxes for a year? I’ll give up the part about welfare and just hope more people will help each other. Hopefully diminishing the need for government assistance. I challange all of us to help out when we can, even if it hurts, and let the government know that the power is with the people.
Thank you for the debate/comments and letting me rant. God bless us all.
February 13th, 2009 at 10:11 pmZooey Says:
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ralph the wonder llama Says:
I have to say, this is rapidly becoming one of my favorite troll tactics — no matter what someone else says, claim that it “proves your point” with no further explanation.
It’s so… efficient.
February 13th, 2009 at 9:46 pm
I like how the troll deliberately “misunderstands” or cherry-picks what we say, and then demands explanation after explanation.
We should come up with a troll syllabus, it’s probably not fair to let them flail around like this…
Ok, let’s try it this way. I know it is hard to see through the smoke. You wrote:
Zooey Says:
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Independant Says:
Thank you for proving my point.
February 13th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
It’s so cute how you fail to highlight the part of gummitch’s comment that disproves your point quite thoroughly.
I think you’ve just gotten booted from the Independant (sic) club, and into the piss-soaked Republican troll cesspool.
Congrats!
And I asked you to explain (I chose the word enlighten) which part proves the opposite of my point that the passage speaks clearly of free will?
Here is the passage with the opposite highlighted.
That’s a great one, all right. Except what it actually says is you can choose to exercise your free will but if you turn away from God you’re going to be in deep sh!t. And not only you, but your children and your children’s children. Not so much with the free will stuff.
I would suggest reading Luke and Matthew if you want a clue about the Christian attitude toward the poor.
Thank you for proving my point.
Any clearer? Help a troll out here.
February 13th, 2009 at 10:23 pmZooey Says:
We should come up with a troll syllabus, it’s probably not fair to let them flail around like this…
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A troll syllabus? It’d have to be a pop-up book, w/ lots of pretty pictures to hold their attention.
I personally like to think of Whack-A-Troll™ as a kind of hybrid between Blind Man’s Bluff and Pinanta party… w/ the troll in the role of the blind-folded pinata.
February 13th, 2009 at 10:26 pmIndependant Says:
What about the idea of no income taxes for a year?
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No income taxes for a year?
You’re talking about adding another TWO TRILLION PLUS to the deficit.
February 13th, 2009 at 10:28 pmI pointed that out to him.
Didn’t get much of a reaction at the time.
I wonder why.
February 13th, 2009 at 10:32 pmHow was it fair back in 1970 when my government told me it was my duty and obligation to leave behind my life and either join the military or go to jail? How was it fair that dick cheney and george w. bush got their deferments and Air National Guard duty while I was told to slog my way through swamps?
I was told it was my duty as a Citizen, because as Citizens we were all in this together.
Now I don’t know what your sacrifice was. And frankly, I don’t want to hear about it, ’cause it sounds to me like you’re one of the republican/conservative/libertarian who believe tax cuts will get the nation out of the financial problems we’re facing, when 30 years of tax cuts and white collar thievery got us into this mess.
If you’re unwilling to sacrifice in order to keep people from freezing and starving to death in the cold and dark, please, just pack up and leave.
The Constitution I was sworn to defend says “. . . to promote the general welfare, . . .” Don’t like it? Just leave and get out of the way while we try to fix what’s left.
February 13th, 2009 at 10:32 pmOkay, so I’m atheist, but when I read that Deuteronomy 30:15 verse, I see God offering a Hobson’s Choice. Which is no real choice at all. As, as you know.
February 13th, 2009 at 10:43 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
I pointed that out to him.
Didn’t get much of a reaction at the time.
I wonder why.
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Didn’t get a reaction out of him the 2nd time either.
We need to have some sort of Opening Day Ceremony for the 2009 Whack-A-Troll™ Pro/Am Tour, ralph… have some visiting dignitary throw out the first troll… something to that effect.
February 13th, 2009 at 10:45 pmRobert M. Says:
How was it fair back in 1970 when my government told me it was my duty and obligation to leave behind my life and either join the military or go to jail? How was it fair that dick cheney and george w. bush got their deferments and Air National Guard duty while I was told to slog my way through swamps?
I was told it was my duty as a Citizen, because as Citizens we were all in this together.
Now I don’t know what your sacrifice was. And frankly, I don’t want to hear about it, ’cause it sounds to me like you’re one of the republican/conservative/libertarian who believe tax cuts will get the nation out of the financial problems we’re facing, when 30 years of tax cuts and white collar thievery got us into this mess.
If you’re unwilling to sacrifice in order to keep people from freezing and starving to death in the cold and dark, please, just pack up and leave.
The Constitution I was sworn to defend says “. . . to promote the general welfare, . . .” Don’t like it? Just leave and get out of the way while we try to fix what’s left.
I signed up for the draft at 18. Didn’t matter because I joined up soon after graduation. Ranger. I too have fought and lost friends in battle. I will not pretent it was at the scale of Vietnam, but war is war. If you were there, I know you know and I thank you for your contribution and sacrifice.
Still doesn’t change my view. “to promote general welfare”
February 13th, 2009 at 11:07 pmIt is not the concept that we disagree on, it is the meaning.
Please take the time to look at some of my comments. I am a giving person. Maybe I didn’t paint the right picture. Most of us have been asked for money by someone on the street. Do you allways give? Do you belive that what you give will do that person any good? How much do you give?
I used to have the idea that I would just give what I could and let God worry about that other crap. But I just couldn’t stick too it. I can’t give much. I am only one person. So what I can contribute needs to have impact. I would rather say no to the person on the street and buy a can food to donate to the food shelf. If the person is truly in need, they will find help there. I feel like the programs we have now are doing no good. People aren’t getting anywhere but locked in by the government. The welfare isn’t enough to make a real difference and it discourages people to grow out of it. I give thanks everyday for what God has presented to me but I also know that I had to work for everything.
So once again, I ask why do we need the government for welfare when we have each other? Let government do what it was meant to do as stated in the constitution. You’ll find that if you read past the preamble, the constitution is quite clear on the duties and limitations of the congress, the president, and the juducial branch.
The Republic of Stupidity Says:
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ralph the wonder llama Says:
I pointed that out to him.
Didn’t get much of a reaction at the time.
I wonder why.
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Didn’t get a reaction out of him the 2nd time either.
We need to have some sort of Opening Day Ceremony for the 2009 Whack-A-Troll™ Pro/Am Tour, ralph… have some visiting dignitary throw out the first troll… something to that effect.
Missed it the first time. Not much to respond too. The government will get much of it back in sales tax to start with. In addition, when we borrow we pay back interest which continues to pile up. Those of us with credit card debt know what that pain is all about. Compounded interest or a 1 year tightening of the government belt. Spending in the market will increase and REAL jobs will be created and sustainable. Customers ultimately decide when a job is needed, not the government.
February 13th, 2009 at 11:13 pmSo you tell me, in the long run, which will cost us more?
The last administration screwed up the growth that President Reagan started and President Clinton continued, and now this one is going to add to the mess.
Continued?
Your premise is to suggest that Clinton’s job was made a lot easier because he picked up where Reagan supposedly left off.
Newsflash: William J. Clinton succeeded George H.W. Bush as president.
Newsflash: Clinton inherited a deepening recession from the conservative principles in George H.W. Bush. He turned the economy around not by daydreaming about Reagan, but by putting in the work in conjunction with his staff.
So continued is clearly a misrepresentation of history. He was elected to pull the economy out of a rut. And that he did.
February 13th, 2009 at 11:18 pmIndependant Says:
used to have the idea that I would just give what I could and let God worry about that other crap.
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How do you know there is a God? And a charitable one at that?
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I would rather say no to the person on the street and buy a can food to donate to the food shelf. If the person is truly in need, they will find help there. I feel like the programs we have now are doing no good. People aren’t getting anywhere but locked in by the government.
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Have ANY IDEA how many non-profits stay in business due to govt funding?
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The welfare isn’t enough to make a real difference and it discourages people to grow out of it.
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It’s supposed to be enough to help them survive until they get back on their feet. Some people do take advantage of the system. Does that mean we destroy the entire system because of a few?
BTW, I’ve read repeatedly that actual “welfare” costs about 2% of the federal budget. 2 cents on the dollar? Why is that so upsetting?
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I give thanks everyday for what God has presented to me but I also know that I had to work for everything.
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W/out knowing a lot more about you, including where you were born, your level of education, etc, etc, it’s hard to reply to that, but I’d be thinking you might owe some thanks to more than just God there, friend. Just a hunch…
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So once again, I ask why do we need the government for welfare when we have each other?
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Because people let other people starve and freeze and bleed to death on the streets every day. Are you seriously suggesting we could have a complete society based on the “merit system”? Geez, I would have thought the current economic melt-down would have relieved you of THAT little illusion in its entirety.
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Let government do what it was meant to do as stated in the constitution. You’ll find that if you read past the preamble, the constitution is quite clear on the duties and limitations of the congress, the president, and the juducial branch.
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Well… according to Botch… that constitution is just g-damned piece of paper.
Apart from that… I don’t the founding Fathers ever quite envisioned a nation of 300 MILLION plus, a GDP of $20 TRILLION, the Internet, satellites, atomic bombs, artificial insemination… I’m sure you get my drift.
We have turned into an enormously complicated, sprawling mess of a society.
What might have worked for 2 or 3 or 4 million people living a simple, agrarian based life prolly won’t cut it today. And those guys back then… they were deliberately vague on the wording in the Constitution, because they suspected the world would change, and we would need some Constitutional wiggle room to deal w/ the changes as those changes came along.
February 13th, 2009 at 11:25 pmConservatism is just an easy excuse for selfishness.
I’m especially moved by bentley1’s posts. He’s let us in on his trials and tribulations as a disabled person before, and I have to say, there’s no real movement to do something about the terrible unemployment rate for people with disabilities in this country.
Let us hope dealing with it becomes a mainstream issue. Too many people of either political party turn away from helping this group; Democrats are most certainly willing to listen but again, it hasn’t been taken up as a serious issue, while the Republicans throw in the “personal responsibility” mantra in there just to get the challenge of being sensitive to anyone’s troubles off their backs.
February 13th, 2009 at 11:26 pmWayne A. Schneider Says:
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Okay, so I’m atheist, but when I read that Deuteronomy 30:15 verse, I see God offering a Hobson’s Choice. Which is no real choice at all. As, as you know.
Sweet reference!!
Heaven and Hell are not exactly a take it or leave it, but very nice.
However, a take it or leave it is still an or, isn’t it?
Even if the choice is to accept or decline is there not still a choice?
February 13th, 2009 at 11:28 pmI remember a comment by Chris Matthews on the PBS documentary of Ronald Reagan, that people tend to be more conservative as they pocket more money. It is very easy to be conservative; I prefer to do everything I can to resist the urge and take the time to learn about the world and people’s troubles.
While I certainly don’t want to overrate myself, I simply have no confidence in conservatism. It’s a wonderful ideology if you’re into selfishness. And for those conservatives who don’t think it’s the government’s job to promote the general welfare, random acts of kindness, while most certainly on the high end of human decency, isn’t enough to promote the general welfare. It’s maybe 10% of the giving pie.
February 13th, 2009 at 11:32 pmThese were the first words from our “Independant” (sic) friend that I read on this blog:
Later, he floated the idea of a year-long income tax holiday to jump-tart the economy. When pressed on the impact of such a policy on the deficit, here is his answer:
WTF?
The federal government collects sales tax?
And even if this was a reasonable response to the question, if it would work for an income tax holiday, why wouldn’t the same mechanism work for government spending?
February 13th, 2009 at 11:46 pmTo be fair, McWars, not all conservatives are attracted to the selfishness aspect of the ideology.
Some like the simplicity of it. Liberalism is so messy and complex with its shades of gray. Conservatism, with its black and white divisions, is much cleaner and more comforting.
February 13th, 2009 at 11:47 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
Conservatism, with its black and white divisions, is much cleaner and more comforting.
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Riiiight… until you get busted for exchanging dirty text-messages w/ your boy-toy Congressional page, or offer a double sawbuck to an undercover police man in a public restroom if he’ll let you fellate him…
Then, all those nice, soothing gray ares don’t look so bad, huh?
“I hereby throw myself at the mercy of the court, yer honor…”
February 13th, 2009 at 11:53 pmThe Republic of Stupidity Says:
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Independant Says:
BTW, I’ve read repeatedly that actual “welfare” costs about 2% of the federal budget. 2 cents on the dollar? Why is that so upsetting?
I love how you break down my comments. How is this for a break down?
Federal Budget 2008 in order from highest % (only the top 5)
21.0% Social Security
16.6% Department of Defense
13.3% Medicade
11.2% Unemployment, Welfare, and other manditory spending
9.0% Interest on national debt
I’ll admit that it is hard to tell what is exactly what without going down the budget line by line. But you can see the numbers. Much more than 2%. There are many lines under the other part of the 11.2%, but if you need to check it out, you will see for yourself.
Well… according to Botch… that constitution is just g-damned piece of paper.
Apart from that… I don’t the founding Fathers ever quite envisioned a nation of 300 MILLION plus, a GDP of $20 TRILLION, the Internet, satellites, atomic bombs, artificial insemination… I’m sure you get my drift.
We have turned into an enormously complicated, sprawling mess of a society.
Agreement!! So you belive more and more government is the answer? I’m sure you understand that the prodominate type of jobs that will be “created” as part of the stimulus will be government. I defended freedom, not control.
Because people let other people starve and freeze and bleed to death on the streets every day. Are you seriously suggesting we could have a complete society based on the “merit system”? Geez, I would have thought the current economic melt-down would have relieved you of THAT little illusion in its entirety.
You sound like a republican. I really hope you have more faith in your fellow citizens. Look at how we ban together when we have something to focus on. Katrina is a great recent example. For that matter, President Obama getting elected is also a great example. People got swept up in hope and belief for a better tomorrow. The likes of which we haven’t seen. I disagree with the assesment, but I can’t ignore the voice. It is a one of hope. To me, that says that we can have faith in each other.
Great comments. I like the line.
February 13th, 2009 at 11:54 pmThe Republic of Stupidity Says:
Riiiight… until you get busted for exchanging dirty text-messages w/ your boy-toy Congressional page, or offer a double sawbuck to an undercover police man in a public restroom if he’ll let you fellate him…
Then, all those nice, soothing gray ares don’t look so bad, huh?
“I hereby throw myself at the mercy of the court, yer honor…”
Sawbuck!! Very funny!!
February 13th, 2009 at 11:57 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
Classic LIBERTARIAN FREAK!
Sweet! I am making progress. Your ideas reek of the Daily Show, but I won’t hold it against you. Stewie makes me laugh too.
February 14th, 2009 at 12:02 amralph the wonder llama Says:
To be fair, McWars, not all conservatives are attracted to the selfishness aspect of the ideology.
Some like the simplicity of it. Liberalism is so messy and complex with its shades of gray. Conservatism, with its black and white divisions, is much cleaner and more comforting.
Your description does a better job of fitting the billet. I don’t want to go overboard, so thanks for the correction! I enjoy posting right off the top off my head and having credible posters like yourself iron out the kinks.
February 14th, 2009 at 12:07 amIndependant Says:
I love how you break down my comments.
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Not sure what you mean by that, but I don’t think I did anything disrespectful in there. I certainly didn’t use any profanity or resort to ad hominem attacks.
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How is this for a break down?
Federal Budget 2008 in order from highest % (only the top 5)
21.0% Social Security
16.6% Department of Defense
13.3% Medicade
11.2% Unemployment, Welfare, and other manditory spending
9.0% Interest on national debt
I’ll admit that it is hard to tell what is exactly what without going down the budget line by line. But you can see the numbers. Much more than 2%. There are many lines under the other part of the 11.2%, but if you need to check it out, you will see for yourself.
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Unemployment compensation isn’t welfare. That is simply a fact. The money comes from a different place (payroll taxes) And what is other “mandatory spending”? Quien sabe?
Here’s a little more inof about welfare for ya.
(Google is a wonderful thing.)
Myths and Facts About Welfare
http://www.apa.org/pi/wpo/myths.html
Fact: Welfare Costs 1 Percent of the Federal Budget
Widespread misperception about the extent of welfare exacerbate the problems of poverty. The actual cost of welfare programs-about 1 percent of the federal budget and 2 percent of state budgets (McLaughlin, 1997)-is proportionally less than generally believed. During the 104th Congress, more than 93 percent of the budget reductions in welfare entitlements came from programs for low-income people (Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, 1996).
Ironically, middle-class and wealthy Americans also receive “welfare” in the form of tax deductions for home mortgages, corporate and farm subsidies, capital gains tax limits, Social Security, Medicare, and a multitude of other tax benefits. Yet these types of assistance carry no stigma and are rarely considered “welfare” (Goodgame, 1993).
Anti-welfare sentiment appears to be related to attitudes about class and widely shared and socially sanctioned stereotypes about the poor. Racism also fuels negative attitudes toward welfare programs (Quadagno, 1994).
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I dunno… mebbe those folks have their facts wrong, but it sure seems like they did their research.
Saaay… do you get any benefits from them “rich-folk” welfare benefits?
Interest deduction on yer mortgage? Education via a public college? Get to work on public roadways? Or does God provide all of that for you?
A lot of people tend to jumble welfare up w/ Medicare, Social Security, food stamps, unemployment compensation… true… they’re all considered entitlements, but they come from different pots of money and are handed out thru different channels and by different rules.
If there’s one “entitlement” that’s going to totally break the system, it’s Medicare, and I do believe Obama has stated that publicly.
But Welfare itself breaking the system? Doesn’t seem like it, huh?
So… help ta clear yer confusion up fer ya, Pilgrim?
February 14th, 2009 at 12:12 amBTW, I don’t belong to any political party, or religious denomination, for that matter. I like to think of myself as a Realist… :-D!!!
February 14th, 2009 at 12:14 amFirst of all, Social Security is NOT part of the federal budget. It is a separate program, with a separate revenue stream. and account
And according to this chart, SS expenditures in FY 2008 run pretty close to those of the Dept. of Defense., so it seem your source significantly undercounts DoD spending.
One thing to consider: in FY 2008 the federal government ran a $455 billion deficit.
It paid $451 billion in interest on the national debt.
February 14th, 2009 at 12:15 amIt was because of talking heads like Krauthammer that Americans became aware of the fact that Zionists are psychotic nut-jobs. Anyone who thinks that George W.Bush will be rated a great President belongs in a mental institution (with George).
February 14th, 2009 at 12:40 amRepublicans don’t understand that hands-off leads to a great eventual need for hands-on. If we didn’t have lax lending policies, cost overruns on two wars and extremely volatile oil prices ravaging jobs and pocketbooks, the hefty spending needed to resuscitate the economy wouldn’t be needed. It has been the wastefulness of trillions of dollars during eight years of GOP leadership that has led to a great need for hundreds of billions of dollars for spending on the social side.
Between two wars and declining incomes, Americans are beat. We need a jolt. Power to the people — and yes, our government is made up of people.
February 14th, 2009 at 12:43 amIndepend(e)nt:
I am Lutheran. I do not go to church every Sunday, but try to go at least once a month. God helps those who help themselves!!
If God helps those who help themselves, aren’t you butting in, by offering them help? Or are you so arrogant as to believe you know what is in God’s mind?
February 14th, 2009 at 2:06 amIndependant Says:
I am Lutheran. I do not go to church every Sunday, but try to go at least once a month.
Does that mean Lutherans do not follow Matthew 6:6?
February 14th, 2009 at 7:59 amThanks for the compliment McWars. I am just fed up with the frigging,selfish, frog-faced rethugs.
February 14th, 2009 at 9:36 amGlad I didn’t start drinking that bottle of Ripple lasat
night.Probably wouldn’t have been able to stand up today.
Hey Indy, you’re still a selfish jackal(in my opinion.)
atony and lido
Krauthammer is pathetic in the extreme. Every day all of his waking hours are spent inventing elaborate new realities to cover up his own ideological failures.
February 14th, 2009 at 11:15 amThe Republic of Stupidity Says:
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Independant Says:
I love how you break down my comments.
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Not sure what you mean by that, but I don’t think I did anything disrespectful in there. I certainly didn’t use any profanity or resort to ad hominem attacks.
Meant just what I said. It was a compliment. You organize what you say and you say it intellegence, and some humor as well. Line by line. I don’t think I have all the answers and I am being honest and open to try to find a way. I appreciate that you are not resorting to name calling but rather trying to support what you say. I read what you say and visit the links. I might not agree with some of your views, but I can’t grow if I don’t listen and consider other opinions. Thanks.
And according to this chart, SS expenditures in FY 2008 run pretty close to those of the Dept. of Defense., so it seem your source significantly undercounts DoD spending.
The great thing about Wikipedia is that if you click enough, you will get what you want. If you go here, you will see Wikipedia closly supports my numbers. Interesting. Why not look at a gov website for real numbers?
Ironically, middle-class and wealthy Americans also receive “welfare” in the form of tax deductions for home mortgages, corporate and farm subsidies, capital gains tax limits, Social Security, Medicare, and a multitude of other tax benefits. Yet these types of assistance carry no stigma and are rarely considered “welfare” (Goodgame, 1993).
How can you call getting some of what you paid back welfare? Welfare is when you get more than you paid in, isn’t it?
First of all, Social Security is NOT part of the federal budget. It is a separate program, with a separate revenue stream. and account
Unemployment compensation isn’t welfare. That is simply a fact. The money comes from a different place (payroll taxes) And what is other “mandatory spending”? Quien sabe?
Really?? (in case you can’t tell, I am a SNL fan) It still comes out of my check. SS directly and Unemp via my employer leaving less to offer to the employees.
If I drink whiskey from a coke bottle, it’ll still get me drunk. Nes pas?
So, is it your positition that the only way to have equal opportunity is to take? Is there no other solution that will allow for more direct input and direction from the people doing the giving?
I will agree that welfare is not breaking us but it is only part of the pie. There are many lines on the budget that we really don’t need. Welfare is just a big one.
February 14th, 2009 at 10:56 pmThere are many lines on the budget that we really don’t need. Welfare is just a big one.
Spoken like a true greedy, self-serving, egotistical, couldn’t-give-a-shit about anyone else right winger. Then again, I repeat myself.
February 15th, 2009 at 9:37 amCharles Krauthamer’s column on Israel’s offensive against Gazans appeared on January 2 in the Washington Post, whose op-ed section is fully occupied by pro-Israel propagandists: “Some geopolitical conflicts are morally complicated. The Israel-Gaza war is not. It possesses a moral clarity not only rare but excruciating. Israel is so scrupulous about civilian life that, risking the element of surprise, it contacts enemy noncombatants in advance to warn them of approaching danger.” As anyone who bothers to read in media that are alternatives to U.S. war-biased propaganda media, which includes virtually all the dominant media, these notifications by Israel’s IDF was but cruel psychological terrorism, for Gazans had no where to go, and were even murdered after led to shelter by Israeli ground forces.
Propagandists were tried in the Nuremberg trials, and at least one was executed. If the dominant media in the U.S. were truly liberal, Krauthammer wouldn’t be able to find a job outside of Israel, and calls would be made for him to be tried as a propagandist who promotes war crimes and crimes against humanity. Instead, his columns appear in “liberal” newspapers across the country, including the Times-Picayune of New Orleans. It’s time to boycott these papers until they stop running the columns of Krauthammer and other right-wing propagandists. Viva Palestina!
February 15th, 2009 at 8:16 pmIs it some law that conservatives have to be ugly as sin? He looks like a cadaver from 1982.
February 16th, 2009 at 5:45 pm