Obama advisers conclude efforts at bipartisanship were misguided.
Obama advisers conclude efforts at bipartisanship were misguided.
Earlier today, ThinkProgress highlighted “Obama’s wasted efforts at bipartisanship.” Reporting on the same subject, The New York Times’ Peter Baker writes that Obama advisers concluded that they mistakenly “allowed the measure of bipartisanship to be defined as winning Republican votes rather than bringing civility to the debate.” Center for American Progress President and CEO John Podesta said the problem was “wishful thinking“:
“I’m not sure I would describe it as naïve, but wishful thinking,” said John D. Podesta, a former White House chief of staff who ran Mr. Obama’s transition and still informally advises his team.
The White House will be able to “pick off” individual Republicans on individual issues, Mr. Podesta predicted, but will not be able to change the calculation made by the opposition party to be in opposition.
“What would make it change?” Mr. Podesta asked, referring to the Republican determination to challenge Mr. Obama. “If you’re going to do this at the moment of greatest need, at the height of his popularity, what sort of thing would get you to change?”
“Yes, we’ve learned some lessons from this,” said Obama adviser David Axelrod. “But primarily we’re happy with the way it turned out.”
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Misguided? More like a complete friggin’ waste of time.
You extended yer hand, Obama…
And the weasels proceeded to gnaw it down to the bone.
February 13th, 2009 at 10:55 pmCut Obama some slack, it’s his third week in office, folks.
February 13th, 2009 at 11:06 pmForget them – it’s not worth it. Every time I see “Boners” ugly face on TV I want to puke. If there are any moderate republicans left in the house, a few of them might decide to do the right thing eventually, instead of following their moronic “leadership” off a cliff.
February 13th, 2009 at 11:09 pmBlue387 Says:
Cut Obama some slack, it’s his third week in office, folks.
__________
Yeah, but in troll years… that’s, like elebenty-leben months already.
February 13th, 2009 at 11:10 pmThe stimulus passed:)Now we can move along to the next important pieces of business…so much to do!Amazing to me that the Republicans moan about the cost of this package, yet didn’t seem to bat an eye when Bush and Co. were running amok with their spending on this ridiculous war. The largest deficit in history came from Bush. I can only surmise that they don’t mind spending for killing people, but don’t want to spend on letting their countrymen live.Karma will take care of that.
February 13th, 2009 at 11:11 pmI still say it was a calculated ply to make the Rs look as bad as possible, as quickly as possible, and get them out of the way. President Obama (you know, it still feels great to type that) now doesn’t have to even pretend to cater to their whims, and can really get started.
February 13th, 2009 at 11:12 pmploy not ply… I need a drink…
February 13th, 2009 at 11:12 pmAMERICA’S SABOTEURS
Republicans are practicing SUBVERSIVE forms of demagoguery and guerrilla obstructionism that are intended to destabilize our economy for purposes of political exploitation.
Republicans AREN’T making a sincere effort to stop the bleeding their incompetent leadership and failed policies created. Instead, they’re using conflicting economic theories as a smokescreen to conceal their real agenda, which is to undermine President Obama and cause him and America to fail.
Republicans are laughably professing that their disgraceful political whoring had nothing to do with the banking, real estate, stock market and employment catastrophes that resulted.
Republicans are trying to hamstring Obama to prevent him from undoing the incompetent negligence of George W. Bush.
Republicans are offering up subjective controversial arguments they know no one can agree on in order to disrupt and deny progressive change. They’d rather create political gridlock than endure the political consequences of effective Democratic governance. That’s how they gained power and that’s how they’re trying to retain it.
Republicans are not the LOYAL OPPOSITION. They are the ENEMY WITHIN whose political priorities have eroded their moral and ethical standards to the point that treachery and betrayal are their preferred methods of operation.
It’s one thing to vigorously advocate their conservative beliefs; it’s another thing entirely for them to willfully sabotage America’s government because a successful Democratic president would not be vulnerable to the fears and hatreds that have produced and sustained the radical Republican corporatism and extremism that have poisoned and divided America.
February 13th, 2009 at 11:15 pmThere was a great outcry when that massive speed bump on the road of life, Grover Norquist, said, “Bipartisanship is another name for date rape”. There has been no change and really, why not accept his observation at face value.
Norquist has said that NO! is the best answer to everything. Norquist has said that the stimulus will be the bludgeon used on Democrats in ‘10, ‘12 and ‘14.
Lincoln had his team of rivals but they were statesmen and rational people, not ideologues bent on obstruction and destruction regardless of the outcome being a forgone negative conclusion.
Time is wasting Mr. Obama. Forget love. It’s respect you want and messing around playing footsie with zombies isn’t going to get you love or respect. It will drag you down and set you up for failure.
“Bipartisanship is another name for date rape.” It’s ugly. It’s stupid. And it’s who they are. Believe it.
February 13th, 2009 at 11:17 pmI agree with John Podesta. The effort had to be made. And I think we know now what Obama won’t do anymore. I’ll say this, I think Obama had a GREAT week. It was almost embarrasing watching how easily the President went around the Ameritaliban. By going to the people, he sold the plan to them. I agree with the idea that like a chees player, he’s about 3 to 4 moves ahead of the Ameritaliban. His numbers speak for themselves. The Rethugs?
Not so much.
February 13th, 2009 at 11:24 pmosage…Yes. I call them “domestic terrorists.”
February 13th, 2009 at 11:26 pmWell, at least the Dems brought civility to the debate.
SKdeA, ask TRoS for some of the wine he’s drinking. ;-)
February 13th, 2009 at 11:26 pmI don’t think the time should be considered wasted. Now, Obama can say he tried to include the Republicans and they refused to be inclusive; AND, every one in America saw it. He also proved that he doesn’t need the Republicans to pass anything. It seems to me that the Republicans proved a saying my Mom used all the time. They cut off their noses to spite their faces.
February 13th, 2009 at 11:27 pmJane E. Schneider Says:
SKdeA, ask TRoS for some of the wine he’s drinking. ;-)
___________
Huh? I was under the impression this was a BYOB party…
February 13th, 2009 at 11:30 pmBYOB? Damn!
February 13th, 2009 at 11:35 pm“If you’re going to do this at the moment of greatest need, at the height of his popularity, what sort of thing would get you to change?”
would love to know…
hey, better luck in 2010/11…
as for Commerce? “third time’s a charm!”
chin up! stay positive… vigilance!
February 13th, 2009 at 11:41 pmJane E. Schneider Says:
BYOB? Damn!
___________
Indeed… BYOB*
*(Bring your own BONG!!!!)
February 13th, 2009 at 11:43 pmremember:
http://www.freewilliamsburg.com/archives/i%20got%20this.jpg
February 13th, 2009 at 11:46 pmObama continues to take the high road while repugs continue to show their mulish, partisan, obstinancy.
Being kind in order to gain something is not sincere, but Obama extended kindness and bipartisanship aiming for the common goal of the betterment of America — and the repugs continue to snarl and refuse to cooperate in kind.
I am glad to see Obama so persistent in doing the right thing, but there isn’t time for a lot of mollycoddling in these cases.
February 13th, 2009 at 11:52 pmIt’s a shame the repugs can only play one game – theirs. Their way is going to prove too costly for America to abide. They will exile thmeselves into the wilderness — maybe that’s not a bad thing for the rest of us.
I agree that it was well worth the effort. Now Obama gets credit for the attempt, Republicans have shown their true colors, AND Obama knows he doesn’t need to peel off any votes from Republicans, at least not in the House.
So leave ‘em in the dust. It’s where they belong.
February 13th, 2009 at 11:55 pmreally? REALLY???
ha!
February 14th, 2009 at 12:05 amBecause, John Kerry, the Democrats are trying to do something to stimulate the economy. The Republicans were simply being obstructionist for the sake of being obstructionist. That’s not something to be proud of.
February 14th, 2009 at 12:06 am#8 – Osage – very well said, and it bears repeating.
February 14th, 2009 at 12:09 amRip off GOP heads and $hit down their throats. They have proven that they are only interested in enriching themselves and their handful of ultra wealthy constituents. They want to enjoy the benefits of living in our fine country with assuming any responsibility for maintaining or growing it. Wedge issues and freak shows are all they have.
February 14th, 2009 at 12:09 amDon’t get Not Proud’s attention Wayne. Just what we need, another Troll to come in and drop a turd bomb.
February 14th, 2009 at 12:10 amRepublicans seem dead set on having another Great Depression.
February 14th, 2009 at 12:11 am“…efforts at bipartisanship were misguided.”
No sheet, Sherlock. I’m glad they’re willing to admit this, in public. As long as it’s not some frustratingly unprogressive kabuki play, that is.
Ram it down their throats. I haven’t heard one sane argument from a conservative in the last three weeks–on the ’sane’ shows like Diane Rehm, or on their OWN shows.
Every argument against this stimulus package has been based on bogus arguments and more tax cuts. Forget it. They cannot even have a decent civilized conversation, so…let ‘em eat your dust, Obama.
February 14th, 2009 at 12:12 amAt this hour, JK, you should be cutting your farts under the sheets.
February 14th, 2009 at 12:14 amSorry, JimWolf359. It’s just that when I see a ridiculous comment, which clearly shows the poster incapable of understanding the meaning of “bipartisanship”, it’s hard to resist. Perhaps he doesn’t know that the president gave the Republicans what they asked for, and they voted against it anyway. The RNC Chairman is right – you should not trust the Republican Party.
February 14th, 2009 at 12:15 amIf the Stimulus plan is working by say, early 2010, enough that their is tangible improvements in the economy, then the election in Nov. could be a mother of a wipe-out for the Ameritaliban. You know how Obama’s people and the DCCC will use it. Hammer home the fact that not one, NOT ONE Rethug in the House voted for it either time and only 3 in the Senate.
February 14th, 2009 at 12:18 amI agree Wayne. I was only trying to be facetious.
February 14th, 2009 at 12:19 amMcWars Says:
At this hour, JK, you should be cutting your farts under the sheets.
____________
How do you know he’s not?
February 14th, 2009 at 12:22 amLater all!
You’ve been a wunnnnnerful audience!!!!
February 14th, 2009 at 12:23 amJK you are a coward, you are a punk and you are a moron and no one cares about your trolldroppings. Go do something useful. I suggest playing in heavy traffic
February 14th, 2009 at 12:23 amSee ya TRos! I myself am going to have a cup of Thera-Flu, go to bed and hope this crud I’ve got is gone tomorrow AM.
February 14th, 2009 at 12:25 amNight all!
So where does the money come from that will be spent in this Stimulus Package?
February 14th, 2009 at 12:27 amGood nght, TRoS. Good night JimWolf359. Hope you feel better. Does Rummy still own a piece of the company that makes Thera-Flu? Just kidding. Get better. :)
February 14th, 2009 at 12:32 amhammywill Says:
So where does the money come from that will be spent in this Stimulus Package?
February 14th, 2009 at 12:27 am
Keebler Elves.
February 14th, 2009 at 12:32 amwhere all the rest of it came from…
but this time WE get something out of it…
something worthwhile, investment in OUR country…
not death and destruction… not the wealthy taking money out of the country…
an American Recovery and Reinvestment plan…
February 14th, 2009 at 12:35 amg’nite all.
February 14th, 2009 at 12:35 amhammywill Says:
So where does the money come from that will be spent in this Stimulus Package?
The same place the trillions in debt that Bush racked up to occupy Iraq came from. Only this time the money is going to be spent on this country and not a country that hates us.
February 14th, 2009 at 12:36 amI don’t think its condemning him by holding President Obama accountable to the same level of accountability that we held Bush to. Its what we expect of ourselves and what I imagine he expects of us.
Scroll through the threads in here over the past 8 years and you’ll see pretty much everyone here declaring how it is patriotic to challenge our leaders, particularly our President. We preached to the right how our criticizing the President or debating his policies was what democracy was all about. Not doing so we considered to be unAmerican.
Yet now that President Obama is in office there’s a surplus of supposed progressive bloggers demanding no one criticize President Obama.
Does anyone see the hubris in that?
We preached for 8 years how holding our leaders accountable was the American thing to do. Was that only when Republicans are in charge? Is that the message we want to send?
Besides. No ones bashing president Obama. Calling for him to stand up to the republicans is not hurting him. Its helping him by providing alternate opinions.
Besides. In case you didn’t notice the title of this article it’s clear that the message has been getting through, and his administration are adjusting course to deal with what they’ve learned.
And at the end of the day I think that may be this administrations greatest attribute and the most striking contrast to the Bush administration. The ability to learn from their mistakes and adjust accordingly.
February 14th, 2009 at 12:39 amGoodnight TRoS, Jim Wolf359, Katy.
Happy Valentine’s Day, everyone!
February 14th, 2009 at 12:41 amMost of the Republicans who opposed the stimulus package because of concern over the amount of spending and the impact on the national debt would have endorsed it had the focus been on tax breaks for the ultra-wealthy and major corporations as well as increased defense spending, international and domestic surveillance funding, subsidizing domestic oil drilling, etc.
It’s disingenuous for the GOP to claim that they are against major spending and increasing the deficit. They simply have different priorities on what projects to fund.
February 14th, 2009 at 12:48 amWhere did the money for the Iraq war come from. I am guessing the same place. Just for a better purpose
February 14th, 2009 at 12:50 amI agree labman57. They had a multi-hundred-billion-dollar “stimulus” package of their own, consisting of just about nothing but tax cuts, which most sane, well-respected economists agree doesn’t stimulate the economy as well as spending does. They had no problem supporting that, so it isn’t the amount of borrowing that bothers them. Not if they’re being honest. Ah, I see the flaw. It’s that “being honest” part. Republicans haven’t quite mastered that yet.
February 14th, 2009 at 12:52 amOdd to see so many bloggers here only to find someone who agrees with themselves instead of intelligent discourse. I’d like to ask: how is there supposed to be bipartisanship when Pelosi changed House rules in place for over 100 years that allow for the minority party (whichever party it is), to give advice and consent to any given bill?
I’d also like to know how many of you would sign a legal document ………. a 1000+ page document, if you were never given the chance to read it? Now…. what if that document affected not just yourself but about 303 Million people?
Does it not bother anyone here that Axelrod is a Communist, as were his parents?
February 14th, 2009 at 1:06 amMiddleoftheroad Says:
Does it not bother anyone here that Axelrod is a Communist, as were his parents?
Really? Where did you learn that fact?
February 14th, 2009 at 1:10 amName names.
February 14th, 2009 at 1:10 amlabman57 Says: “Republicans who opposed the stimulus package because of concern over the amount of spending…..;”
REPLY: Tax cuts are not spending.
“…. would have endorsed it had the focus been on tax breaks for the ultra-wealthy and major corporations…..;”
REPLY: Those evil people who provide jobs and American made products?
“…..as well as increased defense spending….;”
REPLY: One of the few things government does to protect American citizens, as demanded by The Constitution.
“….international and domestic surveillance funding….;”
REPLY: See item above.
“…. subsidizing domestic oil drilling, etc.”
REPLY: You mean so we can utilize our own resources (which would create thousands of well-paying American union jobs, instead of sending about 300 Billion dollars to our enemies?
As for tax cuts for “the rich” See the following, especially Table Three
February 14th, 2009 at 1:17 amThe link for #51 is http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/323.html Again, read the facts, especially Table Three
February 14th, 2009 at 1:18 amOdd to see so many bloggers here only to find someone who agrees with themselves instead of intelligent discourse. I’d like to ask: how is there supposed to be bipartisanship when Pelosi changed House rules in place for over 100 years that allow for the minority party (whichever party it is), to give advice and consent to any given bill?
Were you aware that when Republicans controlled Congress and the White house, the Democrats were completely shut out of the bill-writing process? The Republicans assigned no Democrats to draft the Conference Reports, and even took parts out that had wide bi-partisan support just because they were submitted by Democrats. If they think this is not the way to run Congress, then they shouldn’t have done it themselves. They can dish it out but they can’t take it.
February 14th, 2009 at 1:18 am“Middleoftheroad”
Translation: further to the right
February 14th, 2009 at 1:19 amPresident Obama is not responsible for what Nancy Pelosi does. And I think pretty much everyone has condemned her writing the original bill in private like that. It was poor judgment which is pretty much par for the course when discussing Nancy Pelosi.
But Nancy Pelosi is not President Obama, so don’t try to leverage her lack of bipartisanship with President Obama, who’s done everything but shine John Boehner’s shoes.
February 14th, 2009 at 1:19 amOh, please, MiddleoftheRoad, stop with the “rich people provide jobs and American-made products.” That argument is inane. If it were up to the rich people, Americans wouldn’t be making the products, lesser-paid foreigners would. The rich always look out for their own self interests, not the interests of the nation whose liberal policies made it possible for them to get rich.
February 14th, 2009 at 1:21 amDoes it not bother anyone here that Axelrod is a Communist, as were his parents?
Not really. Does it not bother you that Prescott Bush was a Nazi sympathizer? Does it not bother you that GW Bush was, and is, a total freaking idiot and a lifelong failure?
February 14th, 2009 at 1:23 amI see you’re a novice to the political world. Many bills signed by congress are a lot longer than that. 10,000 pages and more. Which of course would take years to read, much less understand and cross reference, research, etc.
Congressmen have been passing bills for a long time now without reading every word. Analysts and legal experts read the bills in stages, then present the pertinent parts to the congressmen or senator who then votes on the information presented to him. That’s how its been done for a long time.
February 14th, 2009 at 1:25 amDo you ever bother to read the nonsense you write?
February 14th, 2009 at 1:31 amAs opposed to the trillions Bush squandered away?
Or perhaps as opposed to the actual economic collapse created on the Bush administrations watch?
February 14th, 2009 at 1:33 amoooooooh! Night shift trolls.
Lets start with Wang,
You are an idoit. Take your obama-needs-to-do- this-in-order-to-justify-his-blackness-to-me-list and shove it. You are an embarrassment.
Bush’s tax cuts cost half a trillion more and only made the rich richer.
February 14th, 2009 at 1:44 amThe Republicans have BushCo. There is no cure.
February 14th, 2009 at 1:46 amgopny, you do realize that the fact that “its(sic) the LARGEST bill ever passed” is absolutely meaningless? The size of the bill doesn’t matter, its efficacy matters. And it wasn’t “forced down the throats of every american(sic)”, since a majority of Americans approve of the stimulus bill. Not to mention, of course, what Waynebro said.
February 14th, 2009 at 1:49 amWAYNEBRO Says:
But, but, but I thought it was unpatriotic to criticize the Preznit in wartime. I thought it meant you were again’ us, instead of fer us.
I guess IOKIYAR, though, Mr. Book Throwing Boner? Now pick up your mess.
February 14th, 2009 at 1:53 amMiddleoftheroad Says:
I’d also like to know how many of you would sign a legal document ………. a 1000+ page document, if you were never given the chance to read it? Now…. what if that document affected not just yourself but about 303 Million people?
Are you talking about the Patriot Act? You’ve described it quite well.
February 14th, 2009 at 2:12 amthe repercussions of this bill will be felt for decades
You bet. After it’s success, the republican party will be caput, and another opposition party will rise from it’s ashes.
February 14th, 2009 at 2:15 amI’m sorry. Was there a sentence somewhere in there and if so what was its meaning?
February 14th, 2009 at 2:30 amWang111:
February 14th, 2009 at 3:00 amHave you ever heard of the Privacy Center? What about the Borgen Project? Would you mind not posting the exact same weirdness every night? It is sort of annoying
Thanks-
Obama did the right thing. He had to try. At the end of the day, he got 90% of what he originally wanted, did it in less than a month, and came out as the good guy who extended his hand, only to be bitten by people who hates him more than they love America. Next time, though, he really shouldn’t waste all his energy on this. He’s got so much mess to clean, it’s frightening.
February 14th, 2009 at 4:19 amYea, that’s great. Except with a two house majority in the congress and a national emergency causing daily massive losses in both jobs and wealth, it should have taken less than a week.
February 14th, 2009 at 4:53 amNeedless to day, the President would have been just as roundly condemned if he had not reached across the aisle. In our system, Democrats are always in a lose-lose situation.
It’s at least twice as hard to be a Democrat as it is to be a Republican. For example, the Dems took heat because they didn’t impeach Dubyah. But they would most certainly have been crucified if they had impeached.
Similarly, the Democrats will catch hell whether or not they prosecute the Bush gang. We all know this.
They’ll catch hell no matter whether or how or how fast they withdraw from Iraq.
They will catch hell no matter whether or how quickly or slowy the economy recuperates.
They will be howled at no matter whether or how fast or how the mess at Guantanamo is resolved.
They will get chewed out no matter whether or how they resolve the health care mess.
And so on. Even when when Republicans screw up beyond the imagination of God–as they just have–everyone is quick to cut the Democrats in on a heaping big slice of the blame. Even progressives talk this way. It’s just weird.
So you might as well get used to people saying Obama screwed up.
8 Years without a Leader.
February 14th, 2009 at 6:03 am“Yes, we’ve learned some lessons from this,” said Obama adviser David Axelrod. “But primarily we’re happy with the way it turned out.”
There is so much behind Axelrod’s statement. Despite the GOPer’s best efforts to obstruct, and the media’s lopsided reporting, President Obama and his team were able to magnify their motives to the American people.
Osage, if I could have recommended your post 100 times, I would have!
Happy Valentine’s Day to all my fellow TPers!
PEACE
February 14th, 2009 at 6:27 amAfter only 3 weeks, Congress has passed the
Lilly Ledbetter Fair Play Act to outlaw job Discrimination
An increase in S-Chip to insure low income Children
And Now this Economic Recovery Plan
As Dave Obey (D Wisconsin) says..” Republicans can NO LONGER RAIL Against a DO NOTHING CONGRESS” .
February 14th, 2009 at 7:24 amSKdeA Says:
I still say it was a calculated ploy to make the Rs look as bad as possible, as quickly as possible, and get them out of the way. President Obama (you know, it still feels great to type that) now doesn’t have to even pretend to cater to their whims, and can really get started.
Damn Skippy. This is chess- not checkers.
February 14th, 2009 at 7:53 amWang, Obama needs to be the President and take care of the business that needs to be done… that is all he NEEDS to do by definition of his position. He is doing all he can do at the moment.
“Rome” wasn’t built in a day, but is was reduced to near ruin by an idiot at the helm in only 8 years.
Mr. Obama has a LOT of work to do to clean up the mess the idiot made.
So your remarks about what President Obama NEEDS to do, which are racially charged… amount to nothing more than self-serving hot air.
Also, all the scholarly credentials in the world don’t make all that blather any more reputable.
February 14th, 2009 at 8:33 amGuido the Loving OBGYN Says:
The funniest quote I heard yesterday was from some Republican windbag saying I know Republicans screwed our economy and blew a lot of money after 911, but that does not give Democrats the right to [repair our country and give Americans what they want].
Somebody has to clean up after the elephants since they are incapable.
February 14th, 2009 at 8:51 amOld Goat, ignore Wang. Just hit the report abuse link. He has pasted this tripe in several threads. He wants no discourse just wants to stir up trouble. As for the educational credits, the only part that is probably true is the BS (meaning bullshit, just to clear up any confusion) part.
February 14th, 2009 at 9:16 amFor the next two years, the message must be:
Republicans support tax cuts for the wealthy and oppose jobs for Americans.
February 14th, 2009 at 9:16 amKick the obstructionists to the gutter. This letter from a former Republican says it all.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/an-open-letter-to-preside_b_165359.html
February 14th, 2009 at 9:19 amTrusting a rethug is like trusting a rattle snake you just woke up ,under a rock.
February 14th, 2009 at 9:20 amtony and lido
Thanks LiberalVoter… been away for a little bit.
Got waylaid by the garbage.
February 14th, 2009 at 9:32 amMiddle of the road sounds like Independant to me.
February 14th, 2009 at 9:42 amSame old tired crap repeated endlessly,while patting himself on the back
tony and lido
middleoftheroad ought to decide which lane they wish to be in and get the hell out of the way…
February 14th, 2009 at 10:00 amGopny,
News Sources Now report that the Number of WOMEN in the Work force has now Surpassed the Number of Men…. for the First Time in History.
Are you suggesting we Pay Women LESS for the same Work???
And are you suggesting that keeping American Children SICK is good for the Future of the American Economy??
All other Industrialized Countries Provide Healthcare for ALL of their citizens for less Money than our profit driven , “fall thru the cracks” system. No ONe in these countries think America’s health care system is Desireable.
Single Payer Health Care would be FAIRER and CHEAPER.
February 14th, 2009 at 10:31 amRepubs will always use any political advantage to impose their policy positions and views on the USA. They are not interested (and probably can’t) meeting the opposition halfway on any issue. It is pretty clear that the talking heads point of view is now that of the GOP. . . oppose, oppose,oppose no matter what. That isn’t representation, it’s a political gang fighting for the sake of fighting because they’ve forgotten what it is they are suppose to be doing.
February 14th, 2009 at 10:49 amIn other words . . . the Republicans signed their own death warrant with this idiotic maneuver.
Of course the don’t have to agree with Obama, but they were going to vote against anything. This is what they get for electing Rush “Party Before Country” Limbaughas their leader.
February 14th, 2009 at 10:51 amBadger Says:
Gopny,
News Sources Now report that the Number of WOMEN in the Work force has now Surpassed the Number of Men…. for the First Time in History.
Are you suggesting we Pay Women LESS for the same Work???
i think it was rachel who reported that more men than women were being laid off because women are paid less…
how ’bout that…?
February 14th, 2009 at 11:04 amRepublicans continue to take the “my way or the highway” approach to bipartisanship, while cutting funds for highways.
February 14th, 2009 at 11:07 amKaty,
I think you are right that Employers would try to lay off their higher paid employees first…and their sicker employees as well.
But I think the major reason that women have surpassed men in the work force involves the Nature of jobs women tend to prefer.
Women are more likely to have jobs in Healthcare and Teaching…and these kind of jobs have been less adversely effected by the economic downturn. Manufacturing and Construction jobs, which tend to Employ Men more often, have been hit really hard.
February 14th, 2009 at 11:14 amIf we continue down this road, we are so screwed. so socialized
February 14th, 2009 at 11:17 am—
If we continue down this road we are so more likely to move more toward a cooperative society based on caring, collaboration, and mutual respect while also reducing our gross misuse and excessive squandering of global resources…
badger, i agree…
February 14th, 2009 at 11:19 amGopny,
What are these Costly Law suits that Employers are concerned with???
How hard is it to PAY their employees the same pay for the same work???
Again…your remedy of paying them Less doesn’t seem very fair.
And 88K does seem like a lot of money, even in New York…
BUT have your kid get Cancer or Hurt in a serious Accident, and 88K would get Spent very Fast.
And then what would these parents use to keep a roof over their heads, or provide for their Other Children?
My bet is that they would end up in Bankruptcy court, like millions of other Americans who suffer from a Health Care Emergy not of their making.
February 14th, 2009 at 11:24 amAnd GOP Pony demonstrates once again how conservatives are easily frightened little girls and they form their policies around their worst fears.
February 14th, 2009 at 11:28 amdbadass, I notice our friend doesn’t note what faces us if we continue down the road on which the Republicans have set us. The good thing is we probably wouldn’t have another Dust Bowl. Unless global warming takes care of that…
February 14th, 2009 at 11:31 amWhy waste your time with losers, surround yourself with the best & brightest, that sure isn’t republicans these days.
February 14th, 2009 at 11:33 amIt’s obvious that Obama’s success is the neocon’s demise. (Or at least, they have to go back to lying in wait of opportunity again. These bastards are going to do everything they can to see Obama fails. I can’t wait till 2010.
February 14th, 2009 at 11:40 amgopny Says:
Im suggesting that business owners will not take the risk of hiring women based on this law, thereby avoiding costly law suits. They stand to lose everything they have invested.
Families making $88k in new york state shold not have their childrens healthcare paid by the taxpayers.
February 14th, 2009 at 11:08 am
You do realize that you’re proving that (at least some) business owners are not the bastions of American goodness that Republicans always seem so concerned about. If any business refuses to hire a woman simply because she’s a woman, that’s already discrimination and is already against the law. And I don’t know what part of NY you’re from, but $88K is NOT a shitload of money here in southeastern NY, particularly for a family of four.
You’re the kind of New Yorker that gives New Yorkers a bad name.
February 14th, 2009 at 12:03 pm>So where does the money come from that will be spent in this >Stimulus Package?
Same place the money will come from for the war we started in Iraq based on lies…
February 14th, 2009 at 12:12 pmBadger Says:
BUT have your kid get Cancer or Hurt in a serious Accident, and 88K would get Spent very Fast.
And then what would these parents use to keep a roof over their heads, or provide for their Other Children?
My bet is that they would end up in Bankruptcy court, like millions of other Americans who suffer from a Health Care Emergy not of their making.
My daughter is a bankruptcy attorney and she says that more than half of the cases she files are due to unpaid medical bills.
She told me a story the other day about one of her recent cases. It involved a middle-aged couple with three kids. They both have worked while raising their children. They did everything right. They put money in their company’s retirement plan (now almost wiped out by the stock market crash), they saved for their children to go to college and owned a house with an affordable mortgage and some equity.
Then three things happened. The first was their eldest daughter was in an automobile accident that almost killed her. Even though they were both insured, their part of the bills that the insurance companies would not pay to save their daughter’s life was a staggering sum which they were paying off by wiping out their kids college savings and then making monthly payments. In the meantime, the economy crashed and the value of their home plummeted, eating up all their equity and putting them upside down on the value of their home vs. their mortgage. Then the straw that broke the camel’s back. He lost his job and is unable to find another. This put them in a position where they can no longer make their mortgage payment, much less continue to pay off the unpaid medical bills. Their only choice was to declare bankruptcy. They lost their home, their life savings and their retirement. They are both in their 40’s and are having to literally start over. They will never catch up to where they were before they were struck with one disaster after another. But, at least they still have their precious daughter who is now in therapy to deal with the guilt she is suffering feeling like it is her fault that her family was ruined financially.
Is this who we are as a nation? I hope not.
February 14th, 2009 at 12:23 pmRepublicans and Democrats have a different ideology. It was a mistaken idea that just because the power changed hands that those differences would somehow disappear.
I think that bringing civility to the debate is a much more attainable goal.
I believe that Obama and Democrats shouldn’t make compromises just to get Republican votes. As long as they remain united, they have the votes they need to what they want.
I also believe that Obama and Democrats can bring civility to the debate. I think you can listen to your opposition, consider what they have to say and do whatever it is you think is in the best interest of the country regardless whether everybody agrees or not.
In a more civil debate, however, that opposition doesn’t have to be considered ignorant, evil, unpatriotic or criminal.
February 14th, 2009 at 12:41 pmBipartisanship does not mean capitulation.
And agreeing to keep doing the same thing that got us in this mess as a solution to the mess is the definition of insanity.
It’s time to kick those jackasses to the curb and drive our hybrid vehicles over them.
February 14th, 2009 at 12:47 pmBackup, I pretty much agree with your comment except this:
In a more civil debate, however, that opposition doesn’t have to be considered ignorant, evil, unpatriotic or criminal.
I think that the opposition can often be considered ignorant. Of course, that doesn’t necessarily mean that one has to shout “you’re a stupid idiot” at the opposition. Pointing out their ignorance can be done more easily and persuasively by comparing the opposition’s position in contrast to the facts.
February 14th, 2009 at 12:58 pmI’ll agree that even an unprincipled opposition is probably not going to deserve the tag “evil”. But supposing that opposition demonstrates ignorance? Should it then be called on it?
I’ve seen devotion to party by the opposition that I would consider unpatriotic; publicly wishing for failure of the president and his agenda, for instance. Should that not be noted?
And we know Republican partisans are quite capable of criminal behavior within the bounds of opposition. Think “New Hampshire phone-jamming”.
Your point perhaps was decrying the gratuitous, knee-jerk employment of the epithets you mention, and I’m with you on that. But let’s not handicap our language with that dreaded demon of the right-wing, “political correctness”.
February 14th, 2009 at 1:05 pmralph. you have a point. However, I think there is sometimes a tendency to think that if others don’t believe the way we do, we immediately chalk it up to ignorance.
The things we believe, we obviously wouldn’t suspect as being ignorant beliefs. Otherwise, we wouldn’t believe them.
But, just because we believe them, does not mean they are the most enlightened beliefs; or more importantly, does not account for the idea that there could be more than one legitimate view of a particular issue.
For example. I don’t believe in God. The idea doesn’t make sense to me for many reasons. Just because I don’t believe in God, doesn’t mean that other people that do, are ignorant. On the contrary, there are many very intelligent people that believe and also many who do not.
I feel many issues are like that. Before we immediately chalk up someone’s beliefs as ignorant (which is always a possibility), let’s consider that they may view the issue through a prism of a different set of experiences, or they possibly have some insight we do not.
The charge of ignorance, or any other tag (selfishness, greed, malice, etc) is, I believe, just a lot easier than taking the time to consider and understand the other view.
February 14th, 2009 at 2:12 pmJane. I agree with this. And it’s a little too pc, but instead of the focus being on the ignorance of other position, maybe the focus should be on the benefits of the relative stronger position.
February 14th, 2009 at 2:14 pmgopny Says:
Families making $88k in new york state shold not have their childrens healthcare paid by the taxpayers.
For once, I agree with you, well sort of…ALL CHILDREN IN NY SHOULD HAVE THEIR HEALTHCARE PAID BY THE TAXPAYERS. Then ALL TAXPAYERS have a vested interest in the collective of the children, and then we would be interested in their ACHIEVMENT and edumacation, and schools.
“It takes a village”, and you are the village idiot.
February 14th, 2009 at 2:23 pmralph. please understand that I’m not denying conservative failure in terms of civil debate. I’m only suggesting that Obama and Democrats could raise the bar. And provide an even greater contrast, that would help guarantee their stronger position for longer.
February 14th, 2009 at 2:25 pmbackup Says:
But supposing that opposition demonstrates ignorance?
ralph. you have a point. However, I think there is sometimes a tendency to think that if others don’t believe the way we do, we immediately chalk it up to ignorance.
NO, NO,, NO, NO, NO. That is the problem, it is NOT that if other do not think like us, it is others who DO NOT RECOGNIZE REALITY, are then termed ignorant (please look up the definition)
February 14th, 2009 at 2:26 pmAll your other posting is utter bullshit, since you obsficate the original problem. The REPUBLICANTS ARE IGNORANT OF REALITY. There is no CIVILITY to overcome that lack of recognition. PERIOD!
b’cup, you seem to be criticizing the charge of ignorance in general by pointing out instances in which it would not be fairly applied.
Your examples and your objections are rightly noted, but there will still be the occasional view that is grounded in ignorance.
I think that if the charge is leveled only when warranted, it carries a real weight to it, rather being used as a simple, all-purpose slam.
February 14th, 2009 at 2:27 pmRalph be careful, hiccup is setting you up.
“The charge of ignorance, or any other tag (selfishness, greed, malice, etc) is, I believe, just a lot easier than taking the time to consider and understand the other view.”
Ignoring that which is a given, is grounds to call someone ignorant. The Conservatives have been IGNORING reality for over 4 decades now. They have just wished things away, as if they had the power to do so, and constructed REALITIES, just like Rove said they would, that we will be studying in the future. They are sociopaths. Un-mitigated sociopaths. There is no way to recognize the world of a sociopath as a world view that is even understandable.
Your non-belief in God is counter to your professed willingness to recognize reality.
Is God powerless such that he cannot control our individual use of free will, or is God all powerful, and we do not have free will that he told us we have?
Reality is the problem with the Neo-Con, GOP, Republican, Conservative crowd. They deny its existance.
February 14th, 2009 at 2:34 pmI understand your position, b’cup, and it’s admittedly a hard sell here.
I think in general a sharper contrast in behavior and decorum benefits the one who takes the higher road. And I encourage Democrats to follow the lead of Obama and keep themselves from descending into the muck.
The stumbling block is that the higher road doesn’t always lead where you’d expect; when compliant media help portray the higher road as “weak”, it can be a problem. When they try to place the “middle ground” midway between the tempered rhetoric of the folks on the “higher ground” and the extremes that are oushed by the other guys, you get a distorted debate. This has been what the battleground has looked like for the last fifteen years. Higher ground hasn’t been worth squat.
I trust that the mood is changing, and Obama is leading that change.
February 14th, 2009 at 2:34 pmralph. Let me try a different tact.
Consider our relationship with Iran. I believe it’s basically an Islamic Theocracy. I also believe that the beliefs of the fundamentalist leadership is often times at odds with progressive ideals.
I don’t think they would agree with progressives on gay rights, women’s rights, abortion, freedom of religion, separation of church and state, etc.
You get the idea.
Considering that; what would be the most effective way for Obama and Progressive America to deal with Iran. To point out how ignorant they are?
The views of the fundamentalist Iranians are different than ours. I suggest that what would be more productive than trying to convince them that they are ignorant, would be to convince them of the benefits of what we believe to be the relatively stronger ideal.
Maybe it’s time for progressives to start treating conservatives like they would want to treat someone from a different country that had different beliefs. I believe that patient effort would produce better results.
If it would make sense in our relationship with Iran, wouldn’t it make sense when we’re dealing with each other?
February 14th, 2009 at 2:47 pmralph. that previous post, shouldn’t really be directed at you. should have been more of a general proposition. You’re open to what other people have to say. I direct a lot of posts to you, because you listen more than most. I hope you understand.
February 14th, 2009 at 2:52 pmbackup,
I just wanted to point out that when discussing “our relationship with Iran”, most Americans ignore the fact that we overthrew a democratically elected president in the 50s and installed the Shah of Iran in power.
The bad feelings didn’t start with 1979 hostage crisis.
February 14th, 2009 at 2:52 pmWayne. you’re right about the past.
But, you would admit that civility in dealing with Iran, despite our many differences, would probably produce better results than dismissing their beliefs as ignorant?
February 14th, 2009 at 3:01 pmAbsolutely, backup. Civility is what civilized people practice.
February 14th, 2009 at 3:07 pmI suspect that Most Americans are Ignorant of our role in Overthrowing the Iranian Govt. in 1953.
I doubt that this is true for Most Iranians.
February 14th, 2009 at 3:14 pmcivility. the act of showing regard for others.
regard. respect.
I think Obama gets this. I think he will be more successful because of it.
Just because you treat someone kindly. Or try to respect them. Doesn’t mean you have to compromise your ideals for them.
I hope Obama can continue to be civil. I believe it takes a lot of effort. But, in the end; Obama will lead the way he wants to. His civility won’t embolden his opposition – it will help to disarm it.
February 14th, 2009 at 3:19 pmI can’t believe that all you fell for the ultra liberal garbage that media is feeding to you. Obama made an effort for bipartianship by extending his hand and saying “I won…it is my way or the highway”. That is a backhanded slap in the face to conservative Republicans and consesrvative Democrats (there are many) who only want to fix things not bankrupt the country. This will generate the largest deficit in the history of the United States. I just wish you would study things yourself and draw a conclusion instead of listening to the sickening rhetoric of the media. I cancell my subscription to the newspaper because they never printed anything good. You should talk to some of our real heroes who have elected to go back to Iraq and help those that have suffered by the hand of a dictator….just as we seem to be doing. May God have mercy on us all. I feel America will soon be the next Sodom and Gomorrhea.
February 14th, 2009 at 4:09 pmbet. Obama was elected by a majority of Americans. He’s no dictator. And he did win. He does get to ‘trump’ a congressman from a minority party. That’s reality.
Don’t fret. It’s a very good system of governance. If Americans felt that Republicans had better answers, they’d be in power now. And if the current leadership doesn’t perform, they’ll be replaced by the American people.
But, give them a chance to govern. They won.
February 14th, 2009 at 4:20 pmBye Bye Bipartisanship
The American people have now seen the response Obama gets when he reaches out for Republican support for legislation the country so desperately needs. Americans will fully understand when Obama justifiably abandons his futile efforts at bipartisanship and simply rams through Congress the other laws we need to repair the damage that eight years of Bush’s horrendous “Conservative” policies have inflicted on the USA.
Please visit my Blog: “Conservatives Are America’s Real Terrorists”
February 14th, 2009 at 4:35 pmhttp://conservativesarecommunistss.blogspot.com/
cjp. I checked out your blog. Looks like you put a lot of work into it. This is not meant as a slam, but I got to know. I counted about 5 comments on a blog with hundreds of threads that spans nearly a year. What keeps you motivated?
February 14th, 2009 at 4:50 pmI can tell this is a site for liberalo bloggers. You all need to read the book…How Obama got elected…not the title. I proves that the media got him elected…and now he owes them. He was not elected because of his past experience for running anything because he had none. He didn’t get elected because of his experience in foreign affairs because he had none. The media and ACORN got him elected surely and simple. Now he has the problem of trying to do the job he is not qualified for. I am not a Republican but I am a conservative. I don’t like the looks of the stimulus package because there is too much pork in it. Pelosi had a lot to do with writing it. Obama had a little to do with writing it but he did approve of it. I took US Government and was a little surprised at how little power the president really has. Pelosi really has more power than Obama does. She has control of the entire House of Representatives. Think about it. Or study and find out for yourself. It is going to be a long year. As I said before we were doing fine until this year and not things are turning down. We have our own business. Things started turning down when it was announced that Obama had won the democratic nomination. Ask other business people. Most will agree with me. For the deomcrats to be in control of our government is not a good thing. The blame for everything should be shared by both parties but it can’t be now. Also, you do know the Bush bashing by the liberal media (is there any other kind) had a lot to do with the way people were persuaded to vote. Some didn’t know what they were voting for just that they were not to vote for the terrible Republican party!!!! Many who voted for Obama don’t know what his platform was…how sad.
February 14th, 2009 at 5:26 pmHey “bet_60,
Obama won because he got more votes than the other guy. Get over it.
BloggerRadio.com
February 14th, 2009 at 5:44 pmHey “bet_60″,
Do you have any document-able facts or verifiable figures to back up your claims about why people voted the way they did or are you just foaming at the mouth as you follow Lush Bimbaugh’s lead like a good lemming?
February 14th, 2009 at 5:48 pmHey “bet_60″,
You tell us to “ask other business people” because they agree with you … riddle me this Batman, why are the “business people” of the Corporatracy not allowing their “market” to adjust to this economy but, are instead on their knees, with their hands out BEGGING for the U.S. Taxpayers to bail them out because they screwed-up so bad??? YOU want us to take MORE advice from the same folks that hve just proved that they can screw-up a train wreck??? Yeah, you’re a genius alright.
February 14th, 2009 at 5:53 pmI don’t think “misguided” is the correct word to explain this. It is more like the results were not what was expected. Rather, it was better than what could be expected. They got just enough votes to get is through the Senate and, bottom line, that was the whole goal.
But even in hindsight, I would not have wanted Obama to do this in any other way. By doing it in this way Obama was able to show once and for all where the lines of demarcation in Washington DC lie. This exposed the Republicans as not caring squat about the suffering of the American people. Instead, their only goal was to gain the political talking points and an imagined advantage the next election. Well, the Republicans have walked the plank and sawed it off behind them. And polls show that the American people understand exactly what has been going on, indicating that it is the Republicans who were misguided by overplaying a very weak hand.
February 14th, 2009 at 6:57 pmGreed versus sharing.
Anti-Christ versus Christ.
Republican versus Democrat.
Statistics compiled over the past seventy years show that everytime a Republican is in the White House, the gap between the wealthiest and the poor in our nation grows. (GREED)
On the other hand, everytime a Democrat is in the White House this gap shrinks. (SHARING)
So, everytime a Republican in in, the wealthy get even wealthier while the poor get poorer, but everytime a Democrat is in, the reverse happens, with the wealthy getting a little less wealthier and the poor being a little less poor.
And die-hard conservative Republicans hate this because nothing can be allowed to impede their GREED…just look at the eight years when Bush and Cheney ran the White House and Republicans controlled Congress for most of these years…greed…greed…greed…and coporate lobbyists (representing the wealthiest) getting law after law passed and signed that only benefited their corporate clients, no sharing allowed.
It is my understanding that Jesus Christ was into sharing, not greed, thus indicating that those Republicans into greed and not sharing are hardly Christians.
And this is what President Obama and Democrats now face (as they have in the past), the greed-mongering of anti-Christian Republicans, the temple moneychangers, who constantly proclaim that Christian sharing (which has proven over and over again to be beneficial for our country across the board) is socialist.
I’m not fooled. These greedy Republicans are costly to our nation and a disaster for the future of our nation’s children…and I don’t care how many of them go to church each Sunday in an attempt to look “Christian,” they’re not.
February 14th, 2009 at 8:48 pmHey wiz….what stats are you reading????? You liberals are blaming all the problems on Bush but they really started with Clinton when he mandated that loans be given to people for new homes that could in no way ever pay back the loans….then they all went up for foreclosure…the banks lost money,…..and that set the wheels in motion. I may not be up on everthing but I do know most of the things that are going on now started during the Clinton administration. They got worse during the Bush administration, sure, but that was because no one could figure out a quick fix. No one has yet!!!! Obama thinks he has but he can guess again.
As for the Republicians….I don’t think they fought hard enough to stop this stimulus package. Personally, as it will affect the people negatively I think we should have been presented with this bill and allowed to vote on it. Of course, there are many that would have had to have it explained to them!!!! Just like they should have had the presidential platforms explained to them…instead voting by race!!!!
February 14th, 2009 at 10:18 pmWiz….most Republicans are Christians….as am I. I know a little more about that than you do evidentially. God said don’t be greedy…someone needs to tell your president that. Also, did you know that they determined that cigarettes were a drug years ago….and your president smokes…so guess what……..
February 14th, 2009 at 10:18 pmWell bet_60, tell us about the Christians Bush and Cheney. Is it your understanding Christians are all about torture? I thought you Christians had given that up after the inquisition but I guess I am mistaken.
February 14th, 2009 at 11:07 pmAlso, if you look closely at the facts you will find that during the Bush administration things really took a downturn when old Pelosi took charge! The facts are there for your gleaning.
February 14th, 2009 at 11:11 pmWait, you forgot to blame Clinton first. Come on bet_60. Get with the program or we’ll have to send you back to troll school. Now quit wasting our time if this is all you have.
February 14th, 2009 at 11:13 pmbet_60
I saw a bumper sticker about 4 months ago on the back of a Porche SUV that said:
I think a lot of Americans feel that way.
February 14th, 2009 at 11:29 pm“I can tell this is a site for liberalo bloggers.”
Geez, what was your FIRST CLUE?
February 15th, 2009 at 12:14 pmbet_60,
We’re liberals. We read books to learn things. Conservatives read books that were given to them free for making a donation to a candidate or Republican PAC. Hence, liberals are more informed (generally speaking) than conservatives.
The “facts” you cite to support your arguments are selective and incomplete. RHF is right. The S&L bailout of the 80s (which benefitted then-Vice President’s Bush’s son, Neil) had more to do with the current crisis than anything Clinton did. (I love how conservatives deride Clinton because he wanted people to be able to own their own homes. Bush liked to talk about “an ownership society”, but he never specified that the owners would be the people living in the homes.)
In the end, bet_60, you are simply parroting conservative talking points which serve to persuade but not to inform.
February 15th, 2009 at 12:17 pmWho is being tortured? Terrorists? You are right they should not be tortured….they should be destroyed so they cannot harm anyone else. Besides they don’t mind dying for their cause.
February 15th, 2009 at 2:03 pmAnd how old are you “Reputlicans Hate Facts”? I am on Social Security (for now) and I’ve been around and taken government classes and listened to the news which didn’t used to be so liberal. You need to get your facts straight. Reaganonomics jump started the economy and was on of the most practical financial recovery. The S&L may have happened during Repulican reign but it started in the Democrats back yard.
February 15th, 2009 at 6:45 pmbet_60 Says:
Lord save us from another moron who has read A book and thinks it explains the world. Get an education moron. The media was harder on Obama than McSame. Why do the stupidest people imaginable come here with a condescending tone while showing nothing more than just how stupid and gullible they are?
February 16th, 2009 at 1:41 ambet_60 Says: 135
No they didnt. You are a liar and a fool. You are just repeating the moronity that Rush TOLD you to believe. No one EVER made banks give loans to people that couldnt pay them back. That is a lie. It is stupid and only the most ignorant and gullible of the Limborg Hivemind takes that abject stupidity seriously much LESS repeats it. MY GOD you are ignorant.
February 16th, 2009 at 1:43 amJust how stupid are you bet? How did you manage to stuff 20lbs of stupid into that ten pound sack? You come in here and repeat long ago debunked idiocy then tell us how much you know and how old you are? I dont care how old you are. You are VERY stupid and that is apparant. You dont know what you are talking about and that is obvious. The news ISNT liberal you moron. Its just another delusion you were TOLD to believe. To the brainwashed idiots that make up the cells of the Limborg hivemind everything is liberal that doesnt show slavish devotion to ignorant rightwing talking points. Just like the drivel you are trying to shovel. You are a moron. Try to rent a clue somewhere. As of now all you are doing is embarassing yourself
February 16th, 2009 at 1:47 am