Is Jeb Bush criticizing Rush Limbaugh?
By on Feb 15th, 2009 at 9:46 am
Is Jeb Bush criticizing Rush Limbaugh?
In an interview with Fred Barnes for the Wall Street Journal, former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush (R) advised Republicans to “avoid personal, partisan attacks” on President Obama:
I would never want Obama to go through what my brother went through. It might be fair that every president gets the same amount of vitriol. But it’s not right for our country, it’s not going to help us, and it’s not going to help Republicans.
If Bush is sincere about that message, he should direct it as his fellow Sunshine Stater, Rush Limbaugh. Just this past Friday, Limbaugh reiterated his desire to see Obama fail. “I want everything he’s doing to fail. … I want everything he’s doing to fail,” Limbaugh said. Watch it:
Update In Aug. 2008, Jeb told Rush: "One of the highlights, one of the great things about your show is it's broadcast in the Sunshine State, for which a whole lot of Floridians are very grateful, including me."
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consider this the first trial balloon, he is going to run for president in 8 years unless he’s found with his pants down in a mens bathroom
this I guarantee
February 15th, 2009 at 9:50 amThe right wing avoiding personal, partisan attacks? The airwaves would be very quiet if they followed that advice. Personal, partisan attacks is their bread and butter.
February 15th, 2009 at 9:51 am““I would never want Obama to go through what my brother went through.”
isn’t it touching jeb expressed his concern. ole jebbie doesn’t seem to realise the scenario he envisioned would never happen since obama isn’t an insensitive, incompetent asshat with utter disdain for the american people and the principles of this country.
February 15th, 2009 at 9:55 amJeb has more brain power than his big brother George who bullied his way in the family and into the presidency. Dad Bush wasn’t the best of presidents but at least he didn’t invade Baghdad. On the other hand, don’t think we need another Bush or Republican in the White House anytime soon.
February 15th, 2009 at 9:59 amNO! jeb is not criticizing rush limpballs – he is “catapulting the propaganda by.
1. Being the lead voice that the echo-chamber picks up – poor little george was treated so unfairly. Flat-out lie – after 9/11, he was one of most popular presidents in U.S. history. He left as one of the most unpopular – entirely do to his administrations shortcomings and the disastrous effects of his policies off all kinds.
2. Giving the likes of rush and the other wingnuts the go ahead to attack. We saw this consistently through dur chimpfurher’s reign of terror – spokespersons would make one proclamation while the rest of the criminal cabal did exactly the opposite. This is nothing more than Orwell’s double-speak.
3. Positioning himself for national office – don’t kid yourself. If the criminal cabal behind dur chimpfurher and the lying liars in the mainstream media can fraudulently hoist an abusive AWOL alcoholic/cocaine addict into the White House by 2 stolen elects, they can probably put lipstick on this pig too.
The bush family has been the front group of political-economic forces for many generations – they are not going away.
These statements by jeb have nothing to do with a call for civility – they are propaganda.
February 15th, 2009 at 10:06 amperris Says:
“I would never want Obama to go through what my brother went through. It might be fair that every president gets the same amount of vitriol. But it’s not right for our country, it’s not going to help us, and it’s not going to help Republicans.“
consider this the first trial balloon, he is going to run for president in 8 years unless he’s found with his pants down in a mens bathroom
this I guarantee
February 15th, 2009 at 10:15 amIn Ol’ Jeb’s case it would be more likely he be found with his bone in some intern or other female staffer Lot’s of talk about his love life during his reign as Gov
Wait. Limbaugh was a watercarrier for Dubya and he pretty much failed…So what good is Limbaugh, or Rove, for that matter, for the GOP?
February 15th, 2009 at 10:22 amRight-wingers sure are a sensitive lot, ain’t they?
Let’s just trust that the Bush® brand name is trashed for all eternity. I think that in order to have a shot at the presidency, Jeb would have to rechristen himself as Jeb Altria™ (nope, that’s already taken) or something along those lines.
Jeb Goodness™…
Jeb ActivGood™
…I’ve got it! –
Jeb AmeriConcern™
February 15th, 2009 at 10:25 amI really tried to listen to Rush, but he reminded me of a whiney seven year old! Poor baby! He really suffers and stuff!
Jeb Bush may try to run for president, but the founding fathers did not set the Constitution up so that the Bush family could be in power forever kind of like an Egyptian dynasty. I would hope we have had our fill of Bushes!
February 15th, 2009 at 10:28 amAwww, poor Dubya, poor Cheney, made a mess of things, but dont criticize Obama for the what my big brother did..because it makes us look bad, look, we did the same thing to Clinton and it got him eight years in office! And by gosh Gore won the popular vote no matter how much Oreilly, Coulter, Limbaugh or Hannity castigated them. No, No, dont criticize, dont point fingers, dont lay blame on others cause the GOP will lose more elections over it..the people are tired of the blame game and punditry!!
The people dont like Rovian, Kristol Krauthammer neo-conservative politics and we must stop them. Why we might even have to stop protecting Rove and throw him under the bus!!
February 15th, 2009 at 10:30 amWhen you attack a Bush it makes Poppy Bush blubber like a 10 year old at a Jonas Brothers concert.
Stop attacking Chimpy!
-GSD
February 15th, 2009 at 10:36 amWhat is Jeb Bush talking about here?
MSM was completely compliant with his brother until it became overly obvious that he had screwed up everything under the sun. The size of Bush’s failures happened in large part because MSM would not expose and bring to daylight that which they should have known. But, guess what, I wouldn’t want Obama to go through it either because I want him held responsible for his actions. That is a far cry from what Jeb Bush is claiming here.
February 15th, 2009 at 10:43 amGood point, DallasNE.
February 15th, 2009 at 10:44 amJeb’s brother, our little woodenhead illegitimate president, went through a lot of deservedly negative comments for good reason. And, these comments increased as he progressed through his time in office – see a pattern here?
Personal attacks on Obama, on the other hand, have no basis (yet), except from members of the GOOP (Grand Old Obstructionist Party) who are not interested in the best interests of Americans.
I read an article recently that suggested the GOOP should be destroyed. I have felt this way for a long time. I also believe that it may be time to euthanize people like Rush, Norquist, Gingrich, Yoo, Addington, Wolfowitz, Delay, Kyle, Cantor, Blackwell; well you see where I’m going with this. All of these people tried their best to usurp control of our nation forever. In the end (their end) we would all be part of a dictatorship.
February 15th, 2009 at 10:49 amAs long as President Obama stays in front of the American people, deals with issues head on and engages republicans in policy debate and formulation, he will not suffer GDumbya’s fate.
The problem with GDumbya was not partisan attacks. The problem with GDumbya was complete and utter incompetence, deceit, greed and dishonesty.
February 15th, 2009 at 10:50 amI just about spit coffee all over my screen. He wouldn’t want Obama to go through what Bush did?! The Republicans are the masters of vitriol. I guess Jeb’s memory doesn’t go as far back as Clinton.
We accuse Bush of torturing POWs, invading Iraq on false pretenses, mishandling disaster relief, deregulating countless industries to the point that our economy collapses and our food supply is no longer safe, and attacking another nation on false pretenses. On what particular point would you like to debate, Jeb? This is not vitriol. Open your eyes.
February 15th, 2009 at 10:55 amI know I said false pretenses twice, but they were false damn it! :)
February 15th, 2009 at 10:57 am“Must be good sh*t.” – George Carlin
It must be the finest sh*t imaginable. The delusion never ends.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:00 amQuestion: If Rush is promoting Obama’s failure then he is promoting Government failure..Is that not treason?? Why has he not been arrested?
February 15th, 2009 at 11:01 amOh, and in answer to TP’s question at the top of this thread — no, Jebby is not criticizing Rush.
Right-wingers are not bound by the limits of intellectual consistency.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:05 amPorkulus Limbaugh continues with his anti-American attacks. How unpatriotic of him. If he doesn’t like America, then he should leave. Perhaps there is an island in the Caribbean that he would find to his liking.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:05 amJeb says:
“…what my brother went through…”
“my brother”
“my brother”
“my brother”
“my brother”
Make sure the ALBATROSS known as George W. Bush is permanently tatooed around Jeb’s neck and he won’t amount to dog catcher. He is Kaput…Oh sorry Prescott
February 15th, 2009 at 11:06 amnofltwlt Says:
I read an article recently that suggested the GOOP should be destroyed. I have felt this way for a long time. I also believe that it may be time to euthanize people like Rush, Norquist, Gingrich, Yoo, Addington, Wolfowitz, Delay, Kyle, Cantor, Blackwell; well you see where I’m going with this. All of these people tried their best to usurp control of our nation forever. In the end (their end) we would all be part of a dictatorship.
I am with you 100,000% Let the bloodletting begin. I’ll bring the rope. The PayperView rights would be enough to pay down the debt…some.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:12 amAnd isn’t it cute that Sarah Palin refused to go to CPAC, you know, where Rush Limbaugh is to speak. Now why is that? Oh wait! I know! Because she and Jebby are bracing to be the ticket in 2012 and want to show they’re not on Ass Limbo’s side when really they are!
February 15th, 2009 at 11:17 amUpdateIn Aug. 2008, Jeb told Rush: “One of the highlights, one of the great things about your show is it’s broadcast in the Sunshine State, for which a whole lot of Floridians are very grateful, including me.”
He’s grateful because Florida NEEDS hot air to dry out after hurricanes? or after the soaking that the rethugs took nationwide?
Jeb, I would LOVE to believe that you meant what you said about the need for your party to back off from assailing President Obama. But offer me PROOF. All rethugs seem to offer is words, most of them inane, incoherent, non-factual, incorrect, and/or untrue. When you confess that you helped your brother buy and steal elections, THEN I’ll listen to what you might say.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:18 am“I want everything he’s doing to fail,” Limbaugh said.
Including the safe withdrawal of American troops from Iraq?
February 15th, 2009 at 11:20 amTawdry Says:
[I] don’t think we need another Bush or Republican in the White House anytime soon.
Make that “ever.”
February 15th, 2009 at 11:20 amThe problem with websites like this, Huffington, and others, is that they give this windbag any attention. Just ignore the man, pretend he doesn’t exist. I wouldn’t know of one opinion that Limbaugh, Hannity, and others like them hold, if it weren’t for the progressive websites I visit.
I don’t listen to them or watch them for one second. But I have to read about what they have to say at sites like this.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:23 amI wanted everything that feculent fascist phuque Chimpy did to fail.
Everything, without exception. His economic “plans”, his international “plans”, his social “plans”. I wanted EVERYTHING he touched to fail…
February 15th, 2009 at 11:26 amlarkohio Says:
I would hope we have had our fill of Bushes!
I, personally, had my fill of Bushes about a month into 41’s presidency. . . and VERRRRRRY early in Shrub’s reign in Tx, where I was living at the time.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:29 amtom Says:
The problem with GDumbya was not partisan attacks. The problem with GDumbya was complete and utter incompetence, deceit, greed and dishonesty.
Got it in one. WELL-said.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:32 amJeb’s in tons of trouble in Florida right now because of his elections supervisor, appointed by him, and who is being investigated for some unexplained billions of dollars of loss while under his supervision. Jeb Bush’s legacy is being torn to shreds right now on many fronts, not the least of which is that Charlie Christ is making him look like a total buffoon.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:33 amBy the time this criminal investigation of Jebbie’s appointed “elections supervisor” just before the 2004 election is made public, Jeb Bush will have to go into hiding with his bro in Paraguay.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:33 am“He ain’t heavy. . . he’s my brother.”
Nope. Couldn’t type that with a straight face.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:33 amAmerica has had enough Bush to last FOREVER . . . be gone and get a job as a greeter at the Bush Liebury . . . and stay away from the receptionesses . . .
February 15th, 2009 at 11:34 amBuddy Johnson is his name; stealing elections (in Florida) was his “game”.
Buddy Johnson is taking down Jeb Bush as we type!
February 15th, 2009 at 11:35 amhttp://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2009/02/fbi-seizes-budd.html
rimhotep Says:
JJeb Bush’s legacy is being torn to shreds right now on many fronts, not the least of which is that Charlie Christ is making him look like a total buffoon.
Hope you’re right, rimhotep. If so, it’ll be the first time in a long time that rethug appearance has matched rethug reality.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:36 amBut then you wouldn’t know how absurd they were, would you? So you might — just might — be vulnerable to an argument based on their authority.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:37 amtelestai2: Check out my link at #36 – this has been headline news in florida for weeks now.
Today’s papers have linked Jeb Bush to Buddy Johnson. It’s over for Jebbie.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:38 amIs wanting someone’s ideology to fail, because you think it’s the wrong direction – a personal partisan attack.
It’s early yet, but is anyone calling Obama an idiot, a moron, criminal, evil, worst ever, etc.
Maybe that’s the kind of personal, partisan attacks that Jeb Bush was talking about.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:39 amThis country will NEVER elect another Bush – Bush 41’s legacy is of total failure; Bush 43’s legacy is of destruction of this country, it’s economy, and the economy of the rest of the world.
Bush 43 will be known as the presidency of total corruption – on all fronts – lies, criminal behavior, violation of our laws and international laws, illegal war in Iraq, illegal torture in our prisons…..and the list goes on…..
And this is only what “we do know” right now – rest assured that by the time the entire details emerge it will be enough to make our skin crawl.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:40 ambackup: I would say that some legal beagles right now are creating the case for treason – when an appointed official either rigs the fall through legislation overtly; or continues to culpably make the case for intended failure of this democracy.
I’d be very careful what I’m saying right now if I were a member of Congress.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:42 amObama wants to put millions of Americans to work: Rush wants that to fail.
Obama wants every American to have health care: Rush wants that to fail.
Obama wants to achieve a lasting peace in the Middle East: Rush wants that to fail.
Obama wants to put the country on a track towards energy independence: Rush wants that to fail.
Obama wants to restore economic prosperity: Rush wants that to fail.
Obama wants to end terrorism through diplomacy and peaceful resolutions: Rush wants that to fail.
And the entire Republican Party has fallen in lockstep behind Rush.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:43 amPeople like RushieContin could legally be rounded up for treason based on their infamous Patriot Act – now this would be a case of just desserts – using “their diabolical act” to impale them all….Wow.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:43 amJust take a gander at Kucich’s “38 articles of impeachment” replete with prima facie evidence of crimes and you will see why the conversation about Chimpy became “justifiably” negative.
That’s the difference here – there is no evidence of wrongdoing against Obama so it becomes treasonous at this point.
The people had plenty of prima facie evidence against Bush in order to ratchet up their anger.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:44 amnice try, gopny! Gotta hand it to you to blame clinton again. hahahaha! Good one.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:47 amThe people need to notify their reps in congress that we want treason investigations against some of these sickos out there like RushieContin. They have absolutely NO GROUNDS or justification for these attacks against this president OR his agenda. Actually making the statement of “wanting it to fail” is not only unpatriotic but treasonous given Oxy’s exposure to the american people.
Time to begin rounding up these treasonous unpatriotic frauds among us – aka “the enemy within”.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:47 amb’cup, if you think Rush wanting Obama to fail is “because he thinks it’s the wrong direction” you’re a bigger sucker than you play on this blog.
Rush is reasonably adept (for his intelligence level) at couching his partisan hatred in terms that his audience will accept as reasonable. But it all comes down to: Republican – Good, Democrat – Evil.
Every single time.
Okay, let’s refine that a bit. it all comes down to: Conservative – Good, Liberal – Evil.
Every single time.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:47 amrimhotep Says:
This country will NEVER elect another Bush
February 15th, 2009 at 11:47 am
Joe: I recognize that Bush was never legitimately elected by the people and that the GOP with the help of Ken Blackwell (wonder why he wasn’t picked as head of the GOP – plenty of evidence on this criminal, that’s why)….
Along those same lines, Jeb will never be viewed as a statesman. He never had any credibility in Florida and never will.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:49 amAnd the GOP Pony wins the award for the first evocation of “Clinton Did It™”.
Extra points for its absurdity in this instance, but unfortunately, that gambit is getting kinda stale, so the best we can offer as a prize is a juicy razzberry.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:50 amI would tend to disagree about the stereotypical monikers of liberal and conservative because they’ve been turned on their ear. With the so-called conservatives amassing the largest national debt ever in our history, they’re considered liberal – even radical at this point.
These labels have come to mean diddly-squat to the people at this point.
To continue to peddle these trite monikers is an exercise in stupidity by these purveyors of total sleaze.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:51 amMethinks GOP Pony is losing it.
Meth binge, perhaps? Tweaking all night?
Girlfriend dump him? Something’s going on.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:52 amrimhotep. It’s possible, but you’ll have to admit that some progressives have been crying ‘Bush criminality’ wolf for a long, long time.
Democrats have had the ability to impeach for over 2 years. Now, they have an even stronger majority in both houses and a progressive President.
I’ll believe it when I see it.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:53 amHey all: Clinton did it!! You betcha (wink wink) and say it ain’t so Joe! Gotta hand it to them – they don’t want to awaken and join the rest of the country – they’re perfectly find with functioning in a dual reality.
As they say, ignorance IS bliss. The present GOP brings this adage to life for us.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:53 ambackup: Crying foul based on prima facie evidence (and 38 articles of impeachment) is a totally different scenario than crying foul just to denegrade and cry foul.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:54 ambackup: As well, for 2 years Dems in Congress were blackmailed by Bush and his illegal wiretapping of them.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:55 amThat’s only because you have bought, to some extent, the right-wing bastardizations of the terms.
“Liberal” has nothing to do with spending money:
Modern liberalism has its roots in the Age of Enlightenment and rejects many foundational assumptions that dominated most earlier theories of government, such as the Divine Right of Kings, hereditary status, established religion, and economic protectionism.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:55 amrimhotep. I don’t see it, but I’ll keep an open mind.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:56 amrimho – they’re casting themselves as “socially conservative evangelicals” now: anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-tax, abstinence only, pro-gun, anti-equality, mysogenic, and RAPTURE-READY!
February 15th, 2009 at 11:57 amThe RepuBilly “expert” and “messiah” PIG-Baugh has not served (1) one day and has (0) zero education or actual experience in Politics, Govt, Economics, Civics, Medical or Military services or operations.
Now you know why Y’all RepuBilly ditto (clones) are called Republi-Tarded!
February 15th, 2009 at 12:03 pm#51 Cracks me up!!
February 15th, 2009 at 12:19 pmgunner. Limbaugh listeners usually score higher in terms of political knowledge than most left leaning audiences. Check it out:
http://people-press.org/report/?pageid=1356
February 15th, 2009 at 12:22 pmB-cup, we’ve seen that study before. Its conclusions rest on the answers to three questions — which party controls the House of Representatives, name the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom and the Secretary of State of the US.
It may be useful as a quick snapshot of the relative knowledge bases of the audience segments, but it can hardly be relied upon as an authoritative finding.
And let’s face it; with Limbaugh’s unyielding demonization of all things liberal, any regular listener who doesn’t know that the House is in Democratic hands probably couldn’t remember his locker combination in high school.
February 15th, 2009 at 12:30 pm#65
Listeners are above average in political “interest” thanks to a pretend-to-be-important pig fattened by grunting faxed-over daily RNC talking lies!
So again read post #63 and be clear
Pig-baugh’s only “talent” is
* Pretending to be important or relevant
* Reading (RNC talking lies)
* LYING
Seriously, are Ditto-Sheep pure Evil for marching along with (obviously disasterous) Dumbya and NeoCON “policies for the wealthy” while “handing them the weapons”
February 15th, 2009 at 12:31 pmor simply Stupid!?
nofltwlt Says:
I read an article recently that suggested the GOOP should be destroyed. I have felt this way for a long time. I also believe that it may be time to euthanize people like Rush, Norquist, Gingrich, Yoo, Addington, Wolfowitz, Delay, Kyle, Cantor, Blackwell; well you see where I’m going with this. All of these people tried their best to usurp control of our nation forever. In the end (their end) we would all be part of a dictatorship.
February 15th, 2009 at 10:49 am
I’m sorry, but calling for anyone to be killed is wrong, no matter who’s saying it or who they’re saying it about. We’re supposed to be better than that.
February 15th, 2009 at 12:35 pmgopny Says:
you people have lose screws.
i hope obama fails = treason.
i guess you commies really are on yoour way to trashing the constitution.
Thank god none of you have the balls to be in the military.
you faggot liberal whiney babies.
you bbaby boomers out here are probably all former draft dodgers.
the best part of all of you rolled down your fathers legs after they banged your whoremothers
February 15th, 2009 at 11:49 am
I served in the US Air Force from 1983-1988. Ronald Reagan was my Commander-in-Chief. The draft was over by the time many of us were old enough. What an ignorant attack.
As for your “parting shot”, my mother is no whore and she reads this blog. So go fu(k yourself. You’re an asswipe.
P.S. “Lose” is the opposite of “win” and rhymes with “snooze”. “Loose” is the opposite of tight and rhymes with “noose”. That should help you remember.
February 15th, 2009 at 1:04 pmbackup Says:
gunner. Limbaugh listeners usually score higher in terms of political knowledge than most left leaning audiences. Check it out:
February 15th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
You’re kidding, right? Did you look at the questions that study was based on?
Try harder.
February 15th, 2009 at 1:24 pmJeez, backup, Rush’s listeners can answer 3 questions, huh? Personally, I can identify several Senators and Congresspersons by name BY THEIR VOICES without even seeing their faces–can Rush’s listeners do that?
February 15th, 2009 at 1:34 pmJebbie’s gettin’ all positioned up to run with Sarah in ‘12.
What fun that will be.
February 15th, 2009 at 1:35 pm@46 I see that Michael Savage’s avatar is here again.
Particularly heinous, that one.
Takes a lot of crank and self-asphyxia to muster those chops.
Congrats, Mr. gopny, you’ve lowered the bar another notch, for whatever that’s worth.
February 15th, 2009 at 1:38 pmMy ideal remake of the movie Deliverance: Rush Dimbaugh as Ned Beatty and John Holmes resurrected to play the hillbilly in the woods. Or would that be catering to Rush? Wouldn’t want that. . .
February 15th, 2009 at 1:39 pmZooey and ralph.
I’m not saying the study is the end all in audience knowledge. But, everybody was asked the same questions.
There is a lot to disagree with in what Limbaugh says. But the knee jerk retort of Limbaugh listeners as ‘retarded’ or ‘ignorant’, isn’t really backed up by the facts. The ideology is different; but less informed?
I’ll consider studies you could find that Limbaugh listeners are somehow less knowledgeable.
In the absence of that, I concede that I disagree with Limbaugh listeners on some issues, but I can’t agree say that it is because they are less knowledgeable or less intelligent.
If you have information to dispute it; I’ll listen.
February 15th, 2009 at 1:42 pmlet’s see what proportion of Rush’s audience has HS diplomas and college degrees.
February 15th, 2009 at 1:44 pmPerhaps not “less informed” Instead, let’s say “More MISinformed”.
Better?
February 15th, 2009 at 1:47 pmtom. I think 33% are college graduates. Slightly more than the national average.
February 15th, 2009 at 1:48 pmralph. one man’s information is another’s misinformation.
It’s subjective.
February 15th, 2009 at 1:49 pmIt’s subjective.
Backup, FACTS are not subjective.
February 15th, 2009 at 1:58 pmLimbaugh listeners are a relatively educated, relatively knowledgeable people that have a different ideology from progressives.
How intelligent or knowledgeable you are doesn’t have that strong a correlation to what you believe.
I am sure there are studies to the contrary, but I believe there are very intelligent communists, capitalists, fundamentalists, atheists, progressives, conservatives, etc, etc.
Intelligence and Ideology are relatively independent ideas.
Everyone wants to believe that their ideology is the domain of the more intelligent. I just don’t think the evidence is that overwhelming to back it up.
February 15th, 2009 at 1:58 pmJane. Okay. You’re willing to admit that Limbaugh listeners are more knowledgeable than Colbert and Daily Show viewers?
February 15th, 2009 at 1:59 pmThat is absolute fu(king bullshit.
Spreading false information IS MISinformation.
If a claim is presented as factual and misrepresents the facts, that is MISinformation.
Claiming that a fully searchable PDF is “not searchable” and it was created that way because “they don’t want anybody knowing what’s in this” is misinformation.
Claiming that the national coordinator of health information technology will monitor treatments that your doctor gives you is MISINFORMATION.
It’s NOT subjective. Unless you have a different definition of “subjective” than I do.
February 15th, 2009 at 2:01 pmralph. I come back to check it out later, but you’re telling you me that you believe one party or ideology has a monopoly on the truth?
Only one party spreads misinformation, half truths, lies?
February 15th, 2009 at 2:04 pmDon’t be fu(king stupid, b-cup.
I said LIMBAUGH SPREADS MISINFORMATION. i offered you evidence of it.
For you to try to extrapolate from that the unsustainable position that “one party or ideology has a monopoly on the truth” and attribute it to me is the weakest straw man I’ve ever seen you try to prop up.
WTF is wrong with you?
February 15th, 2009 at 2:08 pmYou’re willing to admit that Limbaugh listeners are more knowledgeable than Colbert and Daily Show viewers?
Backup, don’t make me laugh!
a) more knowledgeable about what? Current events? (And I mean reality-based current events.)
b) I would LOVE to see Jon Stewart interview Rush, Jon would crush Rush and his overinflated ego.
If Jon Stewart could single-handedly bring down Crossfire, I doubt if he’d have any trouble with Rush. And Jon and Colbert’s viewers here certainly seem to have no problems swatting down Rush’s listeners. Ill-informed viewers wouldn’t bother watching Stewart or Colbert because they wouldn’t understand all of the political inferences. Give it up, backup.
February 15th, 2009 at 2:14 pmJeb: But it’s not right for our country, it’s not going to help us, and it’s not going to help Republicans.
Seems to me he left the goppers standards, as in this sentence he put country before party.
February 15th, 2009 at 2:20 pmJane, maybe I’ve been wrong about b-cup. Maybe everyone else is correct when they peg him as a garden-variety troll.
February 15th, 2009 at 2:24 pmbackup,
You can find a link to the actual poll within the thread, but TP already wrote about what Jane is telling you.
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/16/daily-show-fox-knowledge/
Yes, I realize this shows that Fox viewers, and not necessarily Rush listeners, are seriously misinformed, but I do believe that they share a common audidence.
Before Air America came along, I used to listen to Rush when I went out to lunch. I didn’t do it because I was a fan of his (see my song parodies about Rush at my own blog), I did it because i wanted to hear for myself how he misinforms people.
One of his favorite tricks is to take something one liberal said and claim that this person spoke for all liberals. There are currently only two members of Congress that I voted for – Sen Chuck Schumer (who better straighten up and fly right if he wants my vote again), and Rep John Hall. (I also voted for former Sen Hillary Clinton, but she’s no longer in Congress, and her replacement was not from my district.) I did not vote for Nancy Pelosi and I did not vote for Harry Reid. But Rush is all too happy to assume that these two people speak for me. They do not. I speak for me.
February 15th, 2009 at 2:28 pmI never liked Capt. Mantastic’s weak-tea trollery, and I’m even less impressed with Rush’s cheerleader here.
February 15th, 2009 at 2:32 pm@ 86, backup appears to begin to catch on.
February 15th, 2009 at 2:37 pmRalph, sometimes backup seems reasonable to me, and he(?) has even admitted that Wayne has influenced him into rethinking some of his positions. So I wouldn’t necessarily call backup a ‘garden-variety’ troll. But he really seems to have a bug up his ass about defending Rush, which is inconceivable to me. (watched Princess Bride again last night, heh, Wallace Shawn is so funny in that!)
February 15th, 2009 at 2:39 pmbackup Says:
Limbaugh listeners are a relatively educated, relatively knowledgeable people that have a different ideology from progressives.
How intelligent or knowledgeable you are doesn’t have that strong a correlation to what you believe.
If there is any talent to be found in rush, it is the fact he can spin facts and create a belief with his audience that as you put it: his listeners are a relatively educated, relatively knowledgeable people. Spinning facts and creating a false belief system within his audience, is the core of his entertainment.
I will bet, at times, he laughs at you.
On the other hand, progressive talk gives true facts and points out the falsehoods of the hate America righties which is the core of their entertainment.
February 15th, 2009 at 2:40 pmNo matter what… Jeb speaking and dog shiting means the same thing!
February 15th, 2009 at 2:42 pmWhen Limbaugh speaks against our Commander-in-chief in this way, in a time of war, isn’t that treason? It was when the Republicans called Bush-detractors traitors, wasn’t it?
February 15th, 2009 at 2:46 pmAnd, it is of my opinion, rush gets sick to death of his audience as he knows he is pulling a con job and they are stupid enough to fall for it.
February 15th, 2009 at 2:47 pmIn fact, I believe Ann Coulter used that charge as the title for a book.
So, yes, they did.
February 15th, 2009 at 2:53 pmIt’s not a defense of Rush.
It’s a response to this:
Rush’s positions may be wrong. But, I disagree with the stereotype that Limbaugh listeners are ignorant or unknowledgeable.
I offered up the pew poll to dispute the stereotype I disagree with.
Not my opinion or feelings, but facts from a study.
I conceded that I disagree with some positions of Limbaugh listeners and I offered to consider information from anyone here that countered the pew information.
February 15th, 2009 at 2:58 pm“…I offered to consider information from anyone here that countered the pew information.”
So, did you read Wayne’s comment?
February 15th, 2009 at 3:01 pmWayne. Rush tries to misinform people. He tells half truths and only half the story.
But, so does TP. Just because TP tells only the progressive side of the story, doesn’t mean that the information or view is irrelevant. Or that the posters on TP are ignorant.
February 15th, 2009 at 3:07 pmB-cup, you tried to claim that “one man’s information is another’s misinformation.”
I disputed that and gave you some examples of clear misinformation from Rush.
Your response was to accuse me of saying that “one party or ideology has a monopoly on the truth”.
Really trollish performance, man.
February 15th, 2009 at 3:08 pmMore fu(king BULLSHIT.
Rush LIES. Rush weaves falsehoods into his narratives way beyond the point where it can be objectively said that he’s “telling only half the story”.
To claim that this is the same thing that TP is bullshit. Just because one is a partisan of the right and the other is a partisan of the left does not mean they operate the same way.
Rush LIES. He lies frequently, and many of those lies are well-documented. When you can point to similar lies from TP, then we can talk.
February 15th, 2009 at 3:11 pmralph. It takes too much effort to try to convince you otherwise. I’m a troll, my friend.
February 15th, 2009 at 3:20 pmbackup Says:
It’s not a defense of Rush.
Thank you.
I have listened to him, if only to analyze…. and what I have come away with is there is some annoyance in his voice he tries his best to cover up towards his audience. He knows he is lying and spinning facts and they are stupid enough to fall for it. Rush is talented entertainment wise and maybe the drug problem is due to putting up with idiots that believe in him.
To be fair, Ray Taliaferro is another one that at times rips his audience.. those that agree with him because he is irritated over one’s method of getting the message across… due to shyness or ones style…. he is losing callers.
February 15th, 2009 at 3:20 pmRalph, not to mention that TP provides links so that readers can inform themselves of the entire context of the story.
February 15th, 2009 at 3:22 pmI always expected more from you.
February 15th, 2009 at 3:23 pmThe only effort that’s required is to deal with questions and issues honestly. If that’s too much effort for you, then…
February 15th, 2009 at 3:25 pmbackup,
Time out. TP tries to present FACTS. Rush promotes propaganda and Republican Party talking points. He even admitted (on the air) that he’s been carrying their water for them.
The difference between what TP does and what Rush does is that TP wants its visitors to be informed of the facts, while Rush wants his listeners to be misinformed.
I’m afraid, my friend, that you have fallen into the conservative trap of believing that one has to hear both sides of an issue in order to be “informed”. This is wrong. And one of the reasons it’s wrong is that, frequently, the right-wing doesn’t use facts to make their arguments. They use talking points, ideological axioms, and sometimes outright falsehoods to make people believe that their solutions are “correct”.
For example, many Republicans still say that “Reagan cut taxes”. But they often don’t tell you that after his first tax cuts, he increased taxes (especially on working people) by raising the Social Security (FICA) taxes. Rush doesn’t like to mention that, and instead likes to leave his listeners with the false impression that Reagan never raised taxes. It’s a lie, along with many others that he routinely and effortlessly tells.
I would like to seriously recommend that you read David Brock’s “The Republican Noise Machine”. (Check it out of a library if you don’t want to give Brock money. That’s what I do with books by conservative authors.) In it you will learn how the right wing has been struggling for decades to get their views presented on TV as legitimate and just as valid as liberal views. They are not, and never have been.
February 15th, 2009 at 3:28 pmJane. Here’s an example that might help me answer ralph’s question:
Here’s a TP thread from a while back:
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/01/20/limbaugh-obama-fail/
Here’s Limbaugh in context on an occasion where he stated he ‘hoped Obama failed’:
Did TP offer the quote in context? Has TP ever offered this quote in context? Doesn’t the context make a difference?
February 15th, 2009 at 3:34 pmThank you, Wayne, for laying it out as eloquently as you did.
For some reason, b-cup has aggravated me more today than usual, and I find myself cursing at him instead of making the kind of points that might eventually reach him.
February 15th, 2009 at 3:37 pmbackup – haven’t read a thing here… just noticed you’re here.
something i’ve been wondering: might you have changed your name from the lovable “squeegeeboo” trooll of earlier days?
and i noticed tundra in these parts the other day…
just curious.
February 15th, 2009 at 3:39 pmB-cup, you and your Rush apologist ilk (and yes, you ARE defending Rush, whether you realize it or not) always fall back on the issue of “context”. One Rush fan once told me that I couldn’t say anything about Rush’s comments unless I listened to the entire three-hour show. As if Rush presents these marvelous Unmberto Eco-like labyrinths of political thought.
The fact is, TP quoted Rush accurately and provided links to the material.
Rush doesn’t do that on his radio show. He lies and then makes arguments based on those lies as if they were undisputed fact.
You’re trying once again to establish an equivalence that isn’t there.
February 15th, 2009 at 3:43 pmand on this topic, in all the criticism directed at dubya, i never heard “i want him to fail”… because WE all knew that meant wanting the country will fail…
many wanted him HUNG and such, but that’s different…
and, me, i’m anti death penalty…
just sayin’.
February 15th, 2009 at 3:47 pmWayne. TP posts a lot of threads. Those threads highlight progressive success and conservative failure.
But, that doesn’t mean progressive ideas sometimes fail or conservative ideas sometimes don’t succeed.
If TP legitimately wanted it’s audience to be informed, it would provide stories that don’t always fit the progressive agenda.
I don’t think it’s realistic to believe that reality matches the pro-progressive/anti-conservative ratio we have at TP.
It is great information, but it’s not balanced.
The mission and tactics over at the EIB and here at TP are probably more similar than most here would feel comfortable considering.
February 15th, 2009 at 3:48 pmbackup,
Context? Okay, then, let’s look at something else about that “I hope he fails” comment. Rush said that he had been asked by someone to write four hundred words on what he hopes to see from an Obama administration. He said (about that), “So I’m thinking of replying to the guy, “Okay, I’ll send you a response, but I don’t need 400 words, I need four: I hope he fails.””
Then, to demonstrate that, once again, Rush was misleading his listeners, he proceeded to use way more than four words to explain what he meant. But do you think his listeners absorbed any of that? I doubt it. What they’ll remember is the four words “I hope he fails.” (He also repeated that several times in the course of his explanation of why he could sum up his hopes in four words instead of four hundred.)
February 15th, 2009 at 3:48 pmbackup,
I believe that you are missing the point I’m trying to make. TP is a progressive/liberal website, and Rush is a conservative entertainer. If Liberals have a bias, it’s toward telling the truth about something. If Conservatives have a bias, it’s against telling the truth. Conservatives know (and have for more than fifty years) that if they tell the truth, they won’t win popular support. So they don’t do it.
Liberals value the truth more than conservatives do. Conservatives view objective facts as enemies of their ideology. Perhaps this has something to do with the core principles of their ideologies. One of those core questions is whether or not you believe people are born inherently good or born inherently evil. If you would like to discuss that aspect, we can do it over at my blog, where I set up a thread to discuss this issue. That way we won’t hijack this thread.
Everyone else is welcome to go there to discuss that question, but I ask you to be respectful in your comments toward other posters. You can attack their ideas all you want, just not them personally. (I will edit comments as I see fit. Fair warning.)
February 15th, 2009 at 3:58 pm“Here’s the part just prior to the “I hope he fails”.”
No, here’s the part:
“Limbaugh told his listeners that he was asked by “a major American print publication” to offer a 400-word statement explaining his “hope for the Obama presidency.” He responded:
“So I’m thinking of replying to the guy, “Okay, I’ll send you a response, but I don’t need 400 words, I need four: I hope he fails.””
And here’s the lying, megalomaniacal part after that:
“…I hope liberalism fails? Liberalism is our problem. Liberalism is what’s gotten us dangerously close to the precipice here. Why do I want more of it? I don’t care what the Drive-By story is. I would be honored if the Drive-By Media headlined me all day long: “Limbaugh: I Hope Obama Fails.” Somebody’s gotta say it.”
Yup, that’s the ‘context’.
February 15th, 2009 at 4:00 pmbackup
TP puts the story out there in it’s factual form… for the posters to chew on and draw their own conclusion.
whereas,
EIB already has the story chewed up and presents it that way.
February 15th, 2009 at 4:09 pmWhy don’t you find out the methodology of the study and give us the link. After all, without knowing the methodology, it could be a mere work of fiction. You do know that Fox successfully argued in a court of law that it could report complete fabrications as news, don’t you?
February 15th, 2009 at 4:11 pmEIB … is THAT what that logo represents that i always see behind rush in the studio?
what does it mean?
February 15th, 2009 at 4:18 pmWayne. Thanks for the invitation. I’ve got to go but, I’ll think about what you said.
This idea that liberals value truth and conservatives don’t, just doesn’t sound reasonable to me.
It’s almost similar to the idea that there is a good vs. evil that Bush espoused.
I don’t really consider myself a conservative today. I have very many conservative friends, fewer, but still many liberal friends. I talk with both groups openly.
I don’t see a difference in patriotism. intelligence. compassion. The similarity in people vastly outweighs the differences.
Not that you are saying it, but the idea often charged here that liberals are good and conservatives are bad is probably as wrong and as dangerous as Bush thinking we (the U.S.) are good and others around the world, are bad.
February 15th, 2009 at 4:20 pmExcellence in Broadcasting.
February 15th, 2009 at 4:21 pmplease answer the 2nd question, backup – is it the logo i see?
and what about the 1st question – “squeegee”???
February 15th, 2009 at 4:32 pmOkay, backup. The post will be there on my blog (which is not the one my name links to; that’s a different one to which I sometimes contribute.) I try check it at least once a day, and I may not reply immediately. But I will reply, I promise you that. Thank you.
February 15th, 2009 at 5:03 pmHoward Stern has made a lot of money on the radio too. Has a huge, diehard fan base, millions of $, etc., etc.,…
…ever hear any lefties calling him their “go-to guy” on matters political?
…ever see any D’s kiss his ass in public?
…any D’s “need” him to get elected?
…didn’t think so.
Rush is just a Howard Stern for the politically benighted and inbred. And a lot less funny.
Radio ratings are about as meaningful to the conversation as navel lint.
February 15th, 2009 at 5:27 pmtee hee, mr. tracy – your posts are always so precious, bless your heart.
February 15th, 2009 at 6:09 pmHey, gopny—the draft ended in 1973. The youngest possible draft dodger would be 54. I enlisted in 1978, at 17. I served in nuclear forces. Since it was the Cold War, I only got the two medals I was eligible for—Good Conduct and Expert Marksman. Tell us your MOS or kiss ass. If you’re a grunt, it’s not because you’re tough, it’s because you scored real low on the ASVABs.
February 15th, 2009 at 6:15 pmwiley,
Thank you for your service to our country.
February 15th, 2009 at 7:35 pmThank you, Wayne. Did you also work with a lot of liberals in the Air Force? The idea that liberals are all “draft dodgers” and pacifists is just wrong.
February 15th, 2009 at 7:44 pmwiley,
There were a few. I was in the Air Force from 1983-1988. “Reagan Fever” was running high, so a lot of my co-servicemen were conservatives, enjoying serving under their hero. When I mentioned that to some that I was atheist, I drew some odd reactions, including my supervisor, who turned in his chair to face me and ask, “So, you’re really an atheist?” It was, to say the least, uncomfortable, but the conversation ended quickly and the subject never brought up again.
February 15th, 2009 at 8:11 pmFor the last eight years I’ve been lamenting the fact that I felt much more free to speak candidly in the military than I do in public now.
February 15th, 2009 at 8:17 pmAs long as we completed our missions, we could speak freely about such things. Of course, we had to be respectful to our superiors, but we talked about a lot of things. But my supervisors were conservatives, some of them with experience going back to Vietnam. The only kinds of trouble I ever got into for something I said was when I gave some “incorrect answers” to some master sergeants, but never for anything political I said.
February 15th, 2009 at 8:21 pmYou know the old joke about “What takes guts?”
February 15th, 2009 at 8:28 pmSo, Tracy, what are your posts used for?
February 15th, 2009 at 8:36 pmOh, I disagree with your assessment. I find tombaker’s posts witty and insightful, and all too rare.
Yours, on the other hand… well, they’re about on par with your level of consideration and respect for others.
February 15th, 2009 at 8:37 pmUseless? Are you cracked?
February 15th, 2009 at 8:40 pmTracy_5:
February 15th, 2009 at 8:42 pmDid you find the American Museum of Natural History helpful or not? The gaps you couldn’t articulate are not nearly as problematic as you wanted to imply. I hope my suggestions were helpful in advancing your understanding of the topic
cheers-
Jeb Bush, don’t even think about running for president he had enough of your family
sohbet
February 15th, 2009 at 8:46 pmThey make excellent fodder for ridicule. Tracist is one of our better straight men. He’s kind of the Bud Abbot of TP, only not as clever.
February 15th, 2009 at 8:48 pmThat’s bullshit.
February 15th, 2009 at 8:54 pmNo one discused punctuated equilibrium, cladistics, and theall of the rest of that stuff when you were in high school. Either that or you aren’t the architect you claim to be. Creation is a myth with no supporting evidences
Well, you’re wrong about that. I thought tombaker caught just the right tone of bemused appreciation to really highlight the fatuousness of your loud belch of a comment.
Cop out. You have never given anyone respect here, even though several posters have earned it. You always speak to everyone here as if they were fools, and I have no reason to suspect that this will ever change.
The thing with right-wingers is, you grab onto these catch-phrases and you think they mean whatever you want them to mean. An earmark is something very specific, and it’s not always, or even usually a bad thing. it’s simply targeted spending. The process can be abused, but Republicans, after they lost control of the House, decided that all earmarks were abusive.
Beyond that, you decide that stuff that is not technically earmarks actually is, just so you can argue about it.
The other thing you guys seem oblivious to is the purpose of an economic recovery bill. Its purpose IS spending money on projects. That’s how the government injects cash into the economy — through government spending. Projects large and small, and yet Republicans nit-pick about miniscule projects and complain about wasteful spending. Guess what? You guys blew it, and the only reason we HAVE a stimulus bill is because the Bush economy ground to a near halt. Tax cuts aren’t going to get this job done — we’ve had nothing but tax cuts for eight years, and look what they’ve gotten us. You guys have no credibility on economic matters anymore.
February 15th, 2009 at 9:00 pmTrace, we’ve been over this — your credibility on anything is nil. So your (would-be) clever jabs carry all the weight of a rice cake. Even if you could think of your own, they would still be near weightless.
But you keep trying. Maybe you’ll get some new synapses to form.
February 15th, 2009 at 9:02 pmIf we sprinkled the Stim liberally with dead people, would you find it more palatable, Mr. Tracy? You so seemed to enjoy the former President’s fiscal profligacy.
February 15th, 2009 at 9:33 pm“Creation is a myth with no supporting evidences”
So?…the evolution of man is an unprovable theory.
Evolution makes a lot more sense to the rational mind than Creationism does.
February 15th, 2009 at 9:33 pmEvolution of man? Shall we examine the progess of the homidae? I ask not that you show evidences of biological evolution. I think it more interesting for you to show me those which support a divine creation? Can you do that?
February 15th, 2009 at 9:35 pmSo what keeps those building up? Is it faith you employ or is it physics? Either way I respect your admission that you believe shit to be true for no reason. It explains a lot about the things you post.
February 15th, 2009 at 9:56 pmTracy__5 Says:
“Evolution makes a lot more sense to the rational mind than Creationism does.”
In your opinion. The universe is far too complex for human scientists to explain.
February 15th, 2009 at 9:51 pm
So, instead of trying to explain it, you give up and say some invisible man in the sky created everything, end of story? And you say we’re the “weak-minded” ones?
February 15th, 2009 at 9:57 pmI’m sorry, Tracy_5, I left out the possibility that you do not have a rational mind. My bad.
February 15th, 2009 at 9:59 pmReligion can’t explain combustion. I’ll take the scientific view. People who do not have a scientific understanding cannot intelligently question science. Faith doesn’t require intelligence or knowledge.
Just exactly what needs to be “explained” about the universe that scientists can’t explain? I could believe that the universe was created by elves, but that doesn’t “explain” anything.
February 15th, 2009 at 10:06 pmTracy__5 Says:
“Just exactly what needs to be “explained” about the universe that scientists can’t explain?”
The concept of infinity i.e. no beginning and no end.
February 15th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
Really??? You can’t grasp the concept that no matter how far out in space you go, no matter which direction you travel, you will never reach the “edge” of the universe, because there isn’t one? What do you expect one would find at the “edge” of the universe, a brick wall? (Since you don’t accept that the universe is infinite, you must believe it is finite.)
February 15th, 2009 at 10:22 pmThere are infinitely manner integers, Tracy_5. Every positive integer (+1, +2, +3, etc.) has a corresponding negative number (-1, -2, -3, etc.). And there is no end to the number of positive integers, because no matter what number you say is the last, I can just add one and get an even higher one. (Works the same way if you say you’ve got the lowest number. I can subtract one and get an even lower number.)
Are you suggesting that this concept is too difficult to understand.
February 15th, 2009 at 10:27 pmTo sum up “the universe” as infinity is to leave pretty much everything in the universe out of the concept of “the universe.”
February 15th, 2009 at 10:28 pmTracy__5 Says:
“So, instead of trying to explain it, you give up and say some invisible man in the sky created everything, end of story?”
It’s better than continually hiting my head against the wall they way you do trying to explain things way beyond your intellectual capacity.
February 15th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
Maybe way beyond your intellectual capacity. I guess that, because you are intellectually lazy and incurious, you believe that everyone else not only is, but should be?
February 15th, 2009 at 10:31 pmSo faith tells you God created the universe. Does it explain the origin of God? How could there have always been God? How could a God arise from nothing?
February 15th, 2009 at 10:33 pmTracy__5 Says:
“You can’t grasp the concept that no matter how far out in space you go…”
I understand what it means it’s just that science cannot explain WHY there is no beginning and no end. Science BTW deals with finite quantities not infinite ones.
Oh, the things you don’t know about science! Did you know that Mathematics is a Science?
Allow me to help answer your concern. There doesn’t have to be a beginning and an end. There was always a Universe, and things happened inside it. Big Bangs happened, creating new galaxies and stuff, and they expanded outward in all directions. In various places along the way, more Big Bangs happened. Some of these explosions probably caused some destruction of already existing matter, while the rest continued expanding. (This would explain how scientists have viewed things in the Universe that they calculate must beolder than the estimated age of our Universe.)
The Universe always existed. (Think of it being the same idea as your God always existing. Or was God “born” at some time?)
February 15th, 2009 at 10:40 pmPray in your left hand, Mr. Tracy, and spit in your right.
Which one fills up first?
February 15th, 2009 at 10:51 pmI’d love to eat at Milliways, Trajan 75 IQ. I’m re-reading the “trilogy” now. Arthur just accidentally learned how to fly while escaping Agrajar.
February 15th, 2009 at 10:52 pmI know, Trajan 75 IQ. That’s one of the reasons I love that series so much. I have a single book with all five stories in it, including a “bonus story”.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:05 pmThe answer is 42.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:07 pmTracy_5 seems to be taking an infinite amount of time to explain what’s wrong with the idea that the Universe ha no beginning and no end. But that’s just a tricky perception.
I suppose it would not be inaccurate to say that the Universe “as we know it” came into being with the Big Bang that created this Universe. Whatever was there before then, in the three-dimensional area known otherwise as “Space”, may have behaved in a way different from our laws of physics. Without being there to test it, we can only speculate. But we certainly don’t have to dismiss the whole idea by saying someone “created it”. That would be weak.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:11 pmwiley,
My boss, also a fan of the stories, likes to give me that answer when I ask him something.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:12 pmThen Tracy responds to Wayne A. Schneider, one of the most measured and respectful posters here, this-a-way:
Lotta respect there, Tracist. And just as much acumen. Wayne needs no defending, but it should be pointed out that he’s consistently one of the sharpest and best intellects in this community.
So your implication that things you believe are “way beyond” his intellectual capacity betrays your overinflated ego as well as your underdeveloped sense of self-awareness.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:24 pmHow can infinity really be “explained”? What does that say about “understanding?” I get vertigo from astronomical distance and geological time. I accept that my puny human senses can’t really grasp such vastness, and don’t need to comfort myself about my limitations. I did lose a night of sleep after an astronomy class once, being overwhelmed with a feeling that I had to choose whether the universe would expand forever, or snap back and start over again. I knew at the time that it was silly and a bit neurotic to have such intense feelings. Contemplating such things can do a number on your head.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:37 pmOld Roosh is close to an apoplexy. Let’s hope he has a great doctor. It’s quite obvious that it pains him to no end to have an African American male in the WH. That’s the real issue here. This is just like watching a boxing match, Obama vs. Limpaw, where Obama is throwing punches that Limpaw can’t block and Limpaw is bleeding profusely from a deep cut over his right eye. Limpaw is taking a beating, but will not concede. He’s wondering,”Where is the referee?” He doesn’t realize that the referee (the GOP) is in the locker room on life support and waiting for the ambulance to arrive.
February 16th, 2009 at 12:23 amDid Jane show up here?
Trace, this is one reason why you’re ridiculed here. The first, of course, is your arrogance which is utterly without any justifying intellect. The second is your prickly nature. The third is your willingness to claim stuff about yourself that has no basis in reality. But the fourth is that you’re just a dick.
Yeah… that’s probably fourth. I think I got the order right.
February 16th, 2009 at 12:36 amHi, ralph – see #173.
Tracy, I never said that I could ‘explain’ the universe, but more brilliant minds than yours understand and can ‘explain’ quite a bit of it. Including Wayne’s. I’m not the math and science brain in this family, but even I understand a lot more about science than you apparently do. You would prefer to narrow your view by relying on the explanation on an all-powerful creator, thereby putting yourself on the same level as early man believing in thunder gods. Just because science cannot currently explain everything about the universe does not mean it never will. If everyone had your intellectual curiosity, we’d all STILL be believing in a god of thunder.
Sorry, ralph, but I’m not always as measured and respectful as Wayne usually is.
February 16th, 2009 at 1:06 amTracy you are an idiot. This is apparant. The fact YOU cant understand something is no evidence it is unexplainable just that you are an idiot. The idea of infinity is quite a simple concept. There are things that need to be described without an end. How many ideas exist is there a first one and a last one? What is the last integer of an irrational number like pi? Is this SERIOUSLY to complicated for you? Apparantly it is.
February 16th, 2009 at 1:19 amralph,
Thank you for the kind words. I try, but I don’t get anywhere, either. I thought that if I asked a troll nicely, without calling him names, he might be able to answer some basic questions. It doesn’t always work.
Tracy’s argument boils down to this: Because Science cannot fully explain the origin of Universe, it must not have happened scientifically. And even though Creationism raises more questions because of its inherent contradictions, he’s perfectly willing to accept that the Universe was created by some all-powerful being. As Spock would point out, “It is not logical.”
BTW, Tracy would have a harder time explaining the flaws in his Creationist views than I would have explaining the mysteries that Science has not yet revealed. If you accept Tracy’s Creationist views as given in one of the many versions of The Bible, you would have to conclude that Adam & Eve shared the Garden of Eden with the dinosaurs. This is patently, and provably, absurd. (A paleontologist would be the one to ask for the prooof, not me. I have my limits.)
I wonder, is the idea that Space has always been out there, regardless of its contents at any given moment, and did not have a “beginning” and will not have an “end” (except for some of the stuff inside it, of course), really such a frightening concept to grasp that we still need to say, “No, it must be God’s work”? What was out there before Space existed? Nothing? Isn’t that kind of what Space is already? A whole not of nothing with scattered things inside it?
When the day finally comes when we can prove that we are not alone in the Universe (which, hopefully, won’t happen in the form of an alien attack), what will the monothesists say then? Who will they pray to for answers about who these creatures are that came from so far away? A God who apparently knew nothing about them?
February 16th, 2009 at 4:06 amrepublicans hate facts Says:
Trajan75 IQ Says:
Or was God “born” at some time?
He was born to explain what our ancestors could not understand.
ROTFL!! With WHO’S DNA? ROTFL! You XTians are a DUMB LOT!
February 15th, 2009 at 11:53 pm
I believe you misconstrued this comment. He was being sarcastic. He’s saying that Man created God as an explanation for what he didn’t understand.
February 16th, 2009 at 4:09 amWayne. Nice work.
When we find the extraterrestrial life, the response will be that God created that life too, but didn’t tell us, for our own good.
February 16th, 2009 at 9:23 amI hope you are not saying man invented Pasta! :-)
February 16th, 2009 at 10:05 amCan’t ALL the bushes just shut their pie-holes and go away FOREVER?
February 16th, 2009 at 10:36 amRush Limbaugh = raw sewage.
February 16th, 2009 at 11:11 amLimbaugh says “the Constitution should be the guiding light” in relation to the stimulus bill. Limbaugh carried water for the Bush crowd that walked all over the Constitution.
February 16th, 2009 at 2:06 pmCome to think of it, where did the concept of a universe come from?
February 16th, 2009 at 4:19 pmHe only wants the country to fail b/c deep inside his heart, he knows what a utter failure he is, and has been his whole worthless life. I pity few people, but I deeply pity his poor soul.
February 17th, 2009 at 3:34 pm