Mayor who sent White House watermelon e-mail resigns.
Mayor who sent White House watermelon e-mail resigns.
Los Alamitos, CA Mayor Dean Grose has announced that he will be stepping down from his position on March 2, after sending an “e-mail picture depicting the White House lawn planted with watermelons under the title ‘No Easter egg hunt this year.’” One recipient, local businesswoman and community volunteer Keyanus Price, who is also African-American, said that she was “horrified” when she received the e-mail on Sunday, and replied, “Not all black people like watermelon… you should know better than that.” Grose wrote back, “The way things are today, you gotta laugh every now and then. I wanna see the coloring contests.” Grose has since apologized, saying the picture was never meant to offend anyone “from the standpoint of the African-American race.”
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February 27th, 2009 at 11:47 amRush playing “Barak, the magic Negro”.
A dead chimp being associated with the stimulus bill.
Dead drunken Negro pastries being sold.
A politician sending an offensive email depicting “blacks sho’ love dat watermelon”.
Yep, our country has made such great strides against racism and bigotry.
Why, were a melting pot of tolerance all right, eh dew3rd?
That being said, it’s good to see a politician admit his mistake and resign.
February 27th, 2009 at 11:49 amSee how the GOP apologizes? If ANYONE was offended? They don’t apologize for their racist positions, they apologize IF YOU were offended BY their racist positions. Well at least he is resigning. Now if we could get Limbaugh to retire, this country just might have a chance.
February 27th, 2009 at 11:50 amAutomatic Amateur Parrot
February 27th, 2009 at 11:50 amWhat other reason would he have for sending it out? Yep, every one has jokes about their race loving watermelon.
Maybe they could be colored with grape soda and then everyone could have a fried chicken meal afterward.
Moron.
February 27th, 2009 at 11:51 amIm SHOCKED. I really shouldn’t be shocked, but crap this is what is SUPPOSED to happen when you screw up this badly.
February 27th, 2009 at 11:51 amYet another stunningly stupid move by a poltician who should know better. About the dumbest thing I’ve heard since Rick Santorum invented the “Islamic” language.
February 27th, 2009 at 11:52 am“Not meant to offend” should officially be today’s GOP’s motto. I would have thought that having an African American in the White House would lead to more covert bigotry, but it’s just the opposite.
How appropriate that his name is “Grose”.
PEACE
February 27th, 2009 at 11:54 amYes, Average American, I too am HORRIFIED.
February 27th, 2009 at 11:54 amHorrified that a politician would actually send such a blatant racist email.
WTF was he thinkin’???
Below Average UnAmerican nonPatriot says:
you really are an idiot.
February 27th, 2009 at 11:56 amThis guy was fully aware the cartoon was racist, that was the point of sending it. This should have no place in our country period. That being said, they will continue to attack Obama based on the amount of pigment in his skin. Kind of stupid and sad when you think about it.
February 27th, 2009 at 11:56 amA big thank-you to Grose for proving that the South does not have a monopoly on ignorant racist fools.
February 27th, 2009 at 11:57 amSorry for this, but somebody could explain me what’s the relationship between watermellons and African-Americans?
February 27th, 2009 at 12:03 pmJuan C. Says:
——————————————————————————–
Sorry for this, but somebody could explain me what’s the relationship between watermellons and African-Americans?
Along with fried chicken and collared greens, watermelons were put forth as the only food blacks would eat. It is similar to the racist “beaner” (forgive the use, it is an illustration) moniker.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:07 pmKind of like Meso-Americans and their being the first to cultivate maize, JuanC.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:09 pmIt appears to have been first cultivated in Egypt, and brought to the America on the slave ships.
http://plantanswers.tamu.edu/publications/vegetabletravelers/watermelon.html
AvgAmPat, isn’t it enough to post your own racist stuff here? Do you really need to cut and paste more racist stuff from other sources?
FLAGGED!
PEACE
February 27th, 2009 at 12:09 pmIt’s horrifying that a public official thinks that something like this is funny, let alone forward it to all his buddies. And the only way one could find humor in a White House lawn filled with watermelons is to visualize black people as coal black, simple-minded, watermelon-loving, tap-dancing, large-lipped caricatures popular with white folks a century ago. Why is it necessary to EXPLAIN how this is offensive?
It’s also horrifying that only one person on Grose’s mailing list was offended enough by it to say something.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:09 pmThank you, Keltoi.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:10 pmwatchdog Says:
February 27th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
And morons.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:11 pmHere Fido, c’mere little puppy, bring the slippers…
February 27th, 2009 at 12:13 pmarf arf arf…
Please explain the significance of a watermelon patch on the White House lawn. Where is the joke, if it’s not meant to play on a stereotype of African-American culture?
February 27th, 2009 at 12:14 pmWell, I look at it this way, the bigots and the worst among us are at least herded together so we will know where they are . . . in the GOP.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:14 pmIf this idiot is too dumb to comprehend the insult of a watermelon patch, he’s too dumb to be a mayor, except maybe in the OC.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:15 pmwatchdog
FLAGGED!
also added to the idiot list.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:15 pmDo you have to have a low IQ to joint the Republican party?
February 27th, 2009 at 12:15 pmwretchdog Says:
How in the world is this racist??
Are you just pleading ignorance, or are you truly ignorant?
February 27th, 2009 at 12:16 pmDRxJ Says:
Rush playing “Barak, the magic Negro”.
A dead chimp being associated with the stimulus bill.
Dead drunken Negro pastries being sold.
A politician sending an offensive email depicting “blacks sho’ love dat watermelon”.
Yep, our country has made such great strides against racism and bigotry.
Why, were a melting pot of tolerance all right, eh dew3rd?
__________
You forgot Obama Cakes…
And the elected official who came to a Halloween party dressed as a black ho…
And that pasty-face old white guy at a Palin rally who had the Curious George doll w/ an Obama for Prez sticker on it…
And…
February 27th, 2009 at 12:16 pmKeltoi Says: ….moniker.
So much for your knowledge of crusading Botanical Empires…
February 27th, 2009 at 12:16 pm;)
watchdog Says:
Sez the dog who spent all yesterday crying about the ACLU posting signs informing people of their rights on buses…
Hmm, watermelon White House vs. Rights and responsibilities of all residents of the United States… which is worthy of outrage again?
Whiny puppies are usually cute, what went wrong?
February 27th, 2009 at 12:17 pmNo, but it does keep them from looking at you suspiciously until you prove your mettle.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:17 pmhow could something so blatantly racist not offend anyone?
was this guy serious?
clearly he’s a racist if he doesn’t see this as way out of line.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:17 pmwatchdog Says:
How in the world is this racist??
_________
You CAN’T be serious…
_________
This country is full of crying little titty babies.
_________
Of which you are clearly one…
February 27th, 2009 at 12:17 pmwatchdog Says:
The new Webster definition of the word Racist – White Americans!!
__________
Well, this is certainly irrational, hysterical nonsense.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:18 pmwatchdog Says:
The new Webster definition of the word Racist – White Americans!!
February 27th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
And watchdog.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:19 pmJuan C. Says:
Sorry for this, but somebody could explain me what’s the relationship between watermellons and African-Americans?
Apparently, African-Americans enjoy eating delicious foods.
.
Average American Patriot Says:
No, they’re not quite as, um, colorful as the comments found at the newshounds, but they’re getting there. Read what some HuffPo habitues wrote in response to the Juan Williams/NPR flap (the [deletions] are ours, not HuffPo’s):
It looks like you’re comparing an email sent by a politician to his staff, to guest comments made by anonymous people on a website in order to pull a “your side is as bad as ours” trip here. But that would be stupid.
Who is “ours?” You got friends in there?
I don’t believe it’s possible to post profanity at huffpo, since all comments are pre-moderated on all political threads. But since you didn’t provide the link, I looked it up for you. Here. Almost half of the quotes you posted there aren’t racist at all. By the way, wingnuts post at huffpo all the time.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:19 pmAverage American Patriot Says:
A little chilly?
__________
Prolly… but still better than having yer head tucked so far up yer own Cheney, you can practically peek out yer own mouth.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:19 pmOh, those silly Republicans, what crackups they are. Can’t anyone that a joke anymore?
The Repukes just don’t get it, they are insensitive morons who are so racist that they can’t relate to why others don’t think they are funny.
FCUK THE REPUBLICANS
February 27th, 2009 at 12:21 pmKeep your head poked in the sand…river of denial
Man, now we’re both mixing metaphors and misunderstanding them?
I guess for a Con. de Nile ain’t the whole ball a wax… it’s the only ball a wax.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:21 pmI was trying to figure out how to respond to a comment this stupid.
I guess sometimes it’s best to just say what everyone’s thinking.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:21 pmSome here (AAP) are convinced that there is no racism is America because they don’t experience it. That, to me, is the height of putting ones head in the sand. For AAP to project onto Spencers Mom (who is a very good blogger) is really a clear picture as to the mentality of the GOP posters. They basically got nuthin’.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:22 pmLos Alamitos, CA Mayor Dean Grose can now join the ranks of Vitter, Craig, Foley, Santorum, Gingrich, Rush, O’Reilly, Hannity, Beck and a chorus of others in the Gleaming Crystal Towers of the GOP’s Hallowed Hall of Hypocrites, Racists & Sexual Predators.
Look for an announcement soon of his new chair at the Heritage Foundation
February 27th, 2009 at 12:22 pmThe watermelon e-mail was ignorant.
But, part of the reason that we are a nation of cowards on race is this:
The guy comments on race and he loses his job.
Again, what he did was ignorant. People aren’t always smart or situationally aware:
http://www.emulsioncompulsion.com/tag/jesse-jackson-fox
I’m not justifying what he did. But, it’s the answer to the question, why are we a nation of cowards when it comes to race.
The stakes are high when you talk about race. That’s just how it is.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:23 pmGrose confirmed to the AP that he sent the e-mail to Price and said he didn’t mean to offend her. He said he was unaware of the racial stereotype that black people like watermelons.
Then why exactly would this email picture be funny to him?
Some people are so tone deaf.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:25 pmblindpup,
Maybe if they added a menthol cigarette add, grape flavored Kool Aid, and chitlins then you’d still NOT find the racism?
b-cup,
making a racist statement is NOT a “comment” on racism.
NOT standing up and calling out racism is THE cowardly act.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:26 pmThat particular stereotype came about because watermellon was really cheap and was part of a very limited diet that poor southern blacks could afford… Same with chicken and much later kool aid…
D-bags would crack ‘jokes’ about how that’s all them black folks ever eat, yuck yuck. Not enough people had the common sense to point out “That’s all they can afford to eat, ‘tard!”
February 27th, 2009 at 12:27 pmwatchdog Says:
The new Webster definition of the word Racist – White Americans!!
That’s right, stupid honky cracker. Now go back to your mayonnaise-slurping trailer park and watch some more reruns of “Friends.” Racist.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:27 pmbackup Says:
I’m not justifying what he did. But, it’s the answer to the question, why are we a nation of cowards when it comes to race.
The stakes are high when you talk about race. That’s just how it is.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
You are justifying what he did. There are supposed to be consequences for our actions, and you are saying, “He was ignorant, naughty boy. Carry on.”
February 27th, 2009 at 12:27 pmThe guy comments on race and he loses his job.
He didn’t comment on race… he forwarded a CLEARLY racist email ’cause he thought it was ‘funny’
That e-mail is not a comment… that is meant to offend in the name of ‘comedy’. And he wasn’t caught on a ‘hot mike’ like Jesse Jackson he consciously SENT the email to MANY recipients.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:28 pmbackup Says: “But, part of the reason that we are a nation of cowards on race is this:”
“The guy comments on race and he loses his job.”
The postcard isn’t exactly a comment, is it?
February 27th, 2009 at 12:28 pmOr would you agree… or would you disagree… or is it simply a grey area….
watchdog Says:
How in the world is this racist?? This country is full of crying little titty babies.
You know Watchdog, there is an old expression that goes something like this,
“Better to let someone think you’re STUPID,
than to open your mouth and PROVE IT!”
February 27th, 2009 at 12:29 pmDavid Livingstone, an explorer of Africa, described watermelon as abundant in the Kalahari desert, where it is believed to have originated. There, the ancestral melon grows wild and is known as the Tsamma melon (Citrullus lanatus var tastius).[citation needed] It is also known in Zimbabwe as ‘nwiwa, mwiwa or iswe’. The plant has pinnatifid leaves. The flesh is similar to the rind of a watermelon and is often known as citron melon (distinct from the actual citron, of the citrus family); it is used for making jam and other preserves, and has a high content of pectin. -Wikipedia
February 27th, 2009 at 12:29 pmJuan C. Says:
Sorry for this, but somebody could explain me what’s the relationship between watermelons and African-Americans?
Juan, I think it goes back to the watermelon postcard that our 1st black President sent to his “mawmaww”. Apparently some people ascribed racist motives to it.
http://www.hicktownpress.com/watermelon-postcard-sent-by-bill-clinton-in-1966-brings-back-stereotyped-memories/
http://lh5.ggpht.com/Serr8d/RxLnGc7BdoI/AAAAAAAABtY/_EYGelaQNiQ/Bill+Clinton+Postcard%5B2%5D.jpg
February 27th, 2009 at 12:30 pmI disagree. He didn’t “comment” on race, he forwarded a joke, the ‘humor’ of which was based solely on a racist stereotype.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:30 pmwatchdog Says:
You’re really losing your impact ’cause of stupid posts like these… pretty soon your posting will be the equivalent of farting in the wind… wait, maybe that day is here already…
February 27th, 2009 at 12:31 pmNevar Says:
——————————————————————————–
Keltoi Says: ….moniker.
So much for your knowledge of crusading Botanical Empires…
;)
To bring it full circle, the Romans did conquer Egypt, and no doubt enjoyed a watermelon or two.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:33 pmI might have missed it — did watchpup ever try to explain the humor of this email so that we could clearly see how non-racist it was?
or did he ignore that direct question?
February 27th, 2009 at 12:33 pmIf African slaves had not smuggled watermelon seeds over on the slave ships none of us would be enjoying them.
Next time someone boasts about their ancestors coming over on the Mayflower from England, think about tea-bagging.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:34 pmPerhaps you could elaborate on the “comment on race” the gentleman was making?
February 27th, 2009 at 12:36 pm“To bring it full circle, the Romans did conquer Egypt, and no doubt enjoyed a watermelon or two.”
It would have been cool to have seed spitting gladiators in the Coliseum…
February 27th, 2009 at 12:37 pmNevar Says:
Next time someone boasts about their ancestors coming over on the Mayflower from England, think about tea-bagging.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
Aaarrrrrrrgghhhhhh!!!! Pass the brain bleach!!!
February 27th, 2009 at 12:37 pmNo. I’m not saying that he should not resign.
What I’m saying is this: He comments on race. He forwards a stereotype, because he mistakenly thinks it’s funny. Then he loses his job over it.
If there is jeopardy over losing your job, in regards to a particular subject – it’s practical to avoid it.
Grose took a risk in an attempt to be funny. Now, he’s looking for a new job.
Holder claims we are a nation of cowards in regards to race.
Discretion is the better part of valor.
It is that discretion, that may be at the heart of our cowardice.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:38 pmfor b-cup, in honor of your concern trolling.
belated:
_ _
/ \ / \
| \/ |
\ /
\ /
\ /
\/
and for blindpup:
February 27th, 2009 at 12:38 pm…………………./´¯/)
………………..,/¯../
………………./…./
…………./´¯/’…’/´¯¯`·¸
………./’/…/…./……./¨¯\
……..(’(…´…´…. ¯~/’…’)
………\……………..’…../
……….”…\………. _.·´
…………\…………..(
…………..\………….\…
Ralph, your thoughts are so clear and this troll should be feeling the beating you just gave him in your response. I bow to the master.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:41 pmbackup Says:
What I’m saying is this: He comments on race. He forwards a stereotype, because he mistakenly thinks it’s funny. Then he loses his job over it.
_________
He didn’t “lose his job”.
He chose to resign.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:41 pmIt appears that B-cup is pleading that as long as public officials aren’t free to tell racist jokes, none of us is free.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:43 pmAgain I ask, please explain the significance of the watermelon patch on the White House lawn?
Where is the joke if it is not tied to racist stereotypes?
February 27th, 2009 at 12:44 pmbackup….just for your feeble mind.
Holder makes a public statement and the content is that we still have racial issues…..Grose proves it.
you still have straw underpants and that bow tie looks terrible with the dye from your mustache running down your neck.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:44 pmGrose took a risk in an attempt to be funny. Now, he’s looking for a new job.
He didn’t ‘take a risk’… he forwarded a cleanly racist email.
Now, had he called in a Secretary and asked to discuss why it was ‘funny’ and what might be considered ‘racist’ about it and THEN lost his job over the furor you might have a point… but he didn’t want ‘dialogue’ and it wasn’t a brave attempt to be funny… it was an email he forwarded that any 12 year old could have told you was racist.
If the ‘joke’ isn’t completely based in a racist stereotype what is the ‘joke?’
Even Hotair isn’t defending this one backup…
February 27th, 2009 at 12:44 pmMatt and ralph.
Watch this youtube of McCain telling a drunken Irish joke:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exX_T19pKz8&eurl=http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/26/mccain-irish-joke/
Grose makes a joke about black people liking watermelon. McCain tells a joke about Irish people liking to drink.
Honestly, did anyone suggest that McCain should withdraw from the race over this ethnic slur?
The consequences for commenting on race are high. They just are.
Because they are high, people mostly avoid it. When we avoid the conversation, we aren’t addressing the issues.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:47 pmGrose is a consummate coward. In addition to losing his mayoral seat, there should be more:
Grose should be harassed out of the presidency of the business association as well since it bodes ill for African American business members.
Claiming ignorance when clearly perpetuating negative and racist stereotypes is the hallmark of the scumbag coward. He issues another patented conservative non-apology apology:
Grose should be removed from any office in which he has control over local business owners. Make no mistake, this is not “dialogue about race,” this is racist profiling and a determination to keep a section of the populace under a negative impression with all the attendant backlash.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:47 pmGrose did not “make a mistake,” he committed an “on-purpose” expression of his decades-old racism. For him to have claimed anything else only verifies his cowardice and his unsuitability to hold office.
Well, its not racist.
If you’re ignorant.
The association of black people and Watermelons has been around for a long, long time, and is common knowledge among anyone with an IQ over 70.
In fact, the 1970 screen adaption of Herman Rauchers “The Night the Sun Came Out on Happy Hollow Lane”, a story about a white bigot who wakes up one day and finds he has turned black, was called “WATERMELON MAN”.
One would have to be incredibly stupid, or incredibly dishonest to not know that the term is a racial reference.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:47 pmBut feel free to explain why the Mayor chose to use Watermelons in place of Easter Eggs slick, to depict the White House Easter Egg hunt now that Barack Obama is President.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:47 pmAside from Dr. Matt’s astute observation that some animals just aren’t built for thinking, I guess we can take from this that the real culprit here is the white person who told local businesswoman and community volunteer Keyanus Price that she ought to be offended.
If that guy had just shut his mouth, none of this would have happened, eh, watchpup?
February 27th, 2009 at 12:49 pm71. watchdog Says: You’re the one defending a post card with watermelons on it calling it racist. You might want to step back and see who the ignorant one is. I think Black Americans should be offended by people who tell them what they need to be offended about. It’s not the blacks that are offended, it’s the ignorant liberal white’s that have a loud mouth and no black friends. White Guilt is a damaging thing!!
I don’t know what makes you so stupid, but it really works!
February 27th, 2009 at 12:51 pmbackup Says:
Grose makes a joke about black people liking watermelon. McCain tells a joke about Irish people liking to drink.
Honestly, did anyone suggest that McCain should withdraw from the race over this ethnic slur?
What is McCain’s last name? Something in there with the “Mc” ringing any bells?
How about a straight answer from you: Is that postcard racist?
February 27th, 2009 at 12:51 pmThe perpetrators of offensive behavior are always trying to define the terms of the argument.
It isn’t offensive??? The perp doesnt get to say whether it is — ever. And if they dont know it is offensive — they certainly shouldn’t be elected officials living off my tax dollars.
The bigger issue is that repubs have a screwed up view of race. Thurgood Marshall dies and we get Clarence Thomas to replace him. Obama is elected and we get Jindal and Steele as counterpoints — as if they all were interchangeable.
Holder is right — we need to be talking about the issue straight up — rather than waiting for watermelons and monekys and people saying –’I didnt know it was offensive[read stupid/racist reaction].”
February 27th, 2009 at 12:51 pmYou know what’s really funny?
B-cup decrying someone “avoiding the conversation”.
You said the gentleman “commented on race”.
What was the comment? How was it an attempt to further discourse?
I say this with all due respect, b-cup; you’re a freakin’ idiot.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:52 pmWatchdog: your mother and I hereby disown you. Find another kennel to sleep in tonight…
February 27th, 2009 at 12:53 pmwatchdog Says: The green color of the watermelon is considered by many to be good luck.
Do you chew the seeds and swallow them, or swallow them whole, or spit them out?
February 27th, 2009 at 12:55 pmralph. I’ll throw it back in your lap. Why are we a nation of cowards?
February 27th, 2009 at 12:56 pmblotchdog Says:
How in the world is this racist??
I’ll one up you. How is this NOT racist???
And please, not cutting and pasting from someone’s blog.
bahickup Says:
The guy comments on race and he loses his job.
Sending a blatantly racist email is not really “commenting” on race, unless you consider demeaning stereotypes as a comment.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:57 pmAnd he didn’t “lose” his job, he voluntarily resigned. Huge difference, my concerned friend, huge difference.
I nominate watchpup for the most outlandish post ever committed to cyberspace.
“The green color of the watermelon is considered by many to be good luck”
Heehee. Good one.
Does it hurt when you twist your “logic” into a pretzel like that? Or is your sense of logic one of those right-wing types that has no internal structure and just conforms to whatever you want to believe?
That would be handy to have, I imagine.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:57 pmAre you trying to tell them what to be offended about? Sure sounds like it.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:57 pmFu(k you, b-cup. Answer the freakin’ question.
You said the gentleman “commented on race”.
What was the comment? How was it an attempt to further discourse?
February 27th, 2009 at 12:57 pmNo, dumb little lying racists.
Once more, the movie “WATERMELON MAN” is a well known movie that most Americans have either seen, or at least heard of in school.
And only over 40 knows that the 70’s television and movies were full of Watermelon references having to do with Black Americans. (called them “Afro Americans back then).
WATERMELON is a well known racist association with black Americans, and lying about it with your nonsense, just makes you look more youthfully ignorant.
—
FROM THE URBAN DICTIONARY
February 27th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
watchdog Says:
It’s not the blacks that are offended, it’s the ignorant liberal white’s that have a loud mouth and no black friends. White Guilt is a damaging thing!!
__________
Actually, many African-Americans were offended by this. You statement is simply not supportable by the evidence.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:58 pmNo, they were’nt supposed to “offend anyone from the african american race”. They were only supposed to go to his white supporteres.
Now if all the racist aholes in our government would follow his lead and resign, our country would be a much better place.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:58 pmbahickup,
February 27th, 2009 at 12:59 pmWe are a nation of cowards, when we feel sending demeaning and blatantly racist emails is funny.
backup Says:
Honestly, did anyone suggest that McCain should withdraw from the race over this ethnic slur?
The consequences for commenting on race are high. They just are.
Because they are high, people mostly avoid it. When we avoid the conversation, we aren’t addressing the issues.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
Ummmm, he was not voted into the office he wanted badly enough to compromise everything he ever stood for. Consequences.
I think you’re being deliberately obtuse.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:00 pm85. watchdog Says: The green color of the watermelon is considered by many to be good luck…The card could have wished the president luck, or implied he is well endowed. What a tragedy! Dumb little libs!!
What’s his next defense, he shoulda shopped at Hallmark?
February 27th, 2009 at 1:00 pmBecause people like you and grose are still able to stir the flames of hatred and we have not put a stop to it.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:00 pmNo, you make no logical sense.
The fact that a well known movie associated the term to black people means its common knowledge that the term is associated with black people.
And the fact that the movie was shown in classrooms all across the country during the early 70’s to demonstrate sterotypical racism in this country, proves what nonsense you are spouting.
Of course, you’d have to be old enough to know that.
And smart enough to comprehend it.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:00 pmwatchdog Says:
Because something is depicted in a film a certain way, it’s automatically considered racist? You make no logical sense.
____________
Much like his namesake… this one is merely chasing his own tail at this point.
Wonder if he’ll start licking his own… ooops… hehe…
February 27th, 2009 at 1:01 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
I say this with all due respect, b-cup; you’re a freakin’ idiot.
__________
Told ya so…
February 27th, 2009 at 1:02 pmHere’s some definitions for comment.
http://www.answers.com/topic/comment
How is Grose’s email not a comment on race?
Again, I’m not saying it’s enlightened. It was ignorant.
I’m just stating a fact. Grose comments on race. Now, he’s looking for a new job.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:02 pmB-cup
February 27th, 2009 at 1:03 pmWhen yer right, yer right, TRoS.
damn you.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:04 pmB-cup again refuses to answer the question.
What was the comment? How was it an attempt to further discourse?
February 27th, 2009 at 1:06 pmFred.
I characterize Grose’s email as ignorant. How exactly am I ’stirring the flames of hatred’?
February 27th, 2009 at 1:06 pmYou have just become a run of the mill troll captain. You have stepped across the threshold into the dark realm of ignorant pos’s.
his email was a statement ok, indicating that he wants to be able to be a racist and not be called a racist for his actions.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:06 pmFlag the cur. Often.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:06 pmThe real problem here with people like Backup and Watchdog is they’re too young to remember the 60’s and 70’s, and too stupid to study it.
Anyone growing up in the 1960’s and 1970’s is fully aware of the racist element of associating Watermelon with black Americans.
There’s no gray area there. No ambiguity. It was widely used during the 60s and particularly the 70’s and no one growing up during that time could not be aware of the connotations.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:07 pmbackup Says:
I’m just stating a fact. Grose comments on race. Now, he’s looking for a new job.
“Comment on race” implies a discussion, backup. Grose did not “comment on race”, he passed along a postcard he thought was funny. Your attempts to twist the English language are laughable.
And I ask again: was the postcard racist? Quit ducking the question with your false dichotomies.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:07 pmI am not certain of the exact psychological mechanism, but it seems (counter-intuitively?) that Obama’s election actually conferred a kind of legitimacy on this kind of ‘humorous’ bigotry. His very public persona is somehow seen, by that segment of the culture which practices such things unashamedly and unabashedly, to make their slurs ‘acceptable.’ This is indicated in their apparent surprise when folks raise objections to it.
I suspect that, in each of these instances, the frisson of having “said what needs saying” (as whites in Louisiana claimed David Duke did) is all the incentive they need.
It would have been similar had Hilary been elected: just, instead of racism, the knuckledraggers would have spread sexist slurs, gay-ron-TEED, chers.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:08 pmbackup Says:
Again, I’m not saying it’s enlightened. It was ignorant.
I’m just stating a fact. Grose comments on race. Now, he’s looking for a new job.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
You need to get your moral compass a tune up.
I agree with TRoS and Ralph. You’re a freakin’ idiot.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:08 pmwatchdog Says:
How in the world is this racist?? This country is full of crying little titty babies.
*
backup Says:
The watermelon e-mail was ignorant.
But, part of the reason that we are a nation of cowards on race is this:
The guy comments on race and he loses his job.
Again, what he did was ignorant. People aren’t always smart or situationally aware:
http://www.emulsioncompulsion.com/tag/jesse-jackson-fox
[another one of backup's false equivalencies]
I’m not justifying what he did. But, it’s the answer to the question, why are we a nation of cowards when it comes to race.
The stakes are high when you talk about race. That’s just how it is.
*
watchdog Says:
Zooey Says:
——————————————————————————–
watchdog Says:
February 27th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
And morons.
The new Webster definition of the word Racist – White Americans!!
*
backup Says:
You are justifying what he did. There are supposed to be consequences for our actions, and you are saying, “He was ignorant, naughty boy. Carry on.”
No. I’m not saying that he should not resign.
What I’m saying is this: He comments on race. He forwards a stereotype, because he mistakenly thinks it’s funny. Then he loses his job over it.
If there is jeopardy over losing your job, in regards to a particular subject – it’s practical to avoid it.
Grose took a risk in an attempt to be funny. Now, he’s looking for a new job.
Holder claims we are a nation of cowards in regards to race.
Discretion is the better part of valor.
It is that discretion, that may be at the heart of our cowardice.
*
watchdog Says:
Little Freep Goofballs Says:
——————————————————————————–
wretchdog Says:
How in the world is this racist??
Are you just pleading ignorance, or are you truly ignorant?
Getting called racist is really losing its impact because stupid crap like this. In a couple of years being called racist will be the equivalent of being called a cracker. No one will give a shit!@
*
backup Says:
Wrong (as usual). He perpetuated a racist stereotype. That’s a far and distant cry from “commenting on race”
Matt and ralph.
Watch this youtube of McCain telling a drunken Irish joke:
http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=exX_T19pKz8&eurl=http:/ / thinkprogress.org/ 2008/ 09/ 26/ mccain-irish-joke/
[another one of backup's false equivalencies]
Grose makes a joke about black people liking watermelon. McCain tells a joke about Irish people liking to drink.
Honestly, did anyone suggest that McCain should withdraw from the race over this ethnic slur?
The consequences for commenting on race are high. They just are.
Because they are high, people mostly avoid it. When we avoid the conversation, we aren’t addressing the issues.
*
watchdog Says:
wolfsinger Says:
——————————————————————————–
watchdog Says:
How in the world is this racist?? This country is full of crying little titty babies.
You know Watchdog, there is an old expression that goes something like this,
“Better to let someone think you’re STUPID,
than to open your mouth and PROVE IT!”
You’re the one defending a post card with watermelons on it calling it racist. You might want to step back and see who the ignorant one is. I think Black Americans should be offended by people who tell them what they need to be offended about. It’s not the blacks that are offended, it’s the ignorant liberal white’s that have a loud mouth and no black friends. White Guilt is a damaging thing!!
*
watchdog and backup.
having a dialogue on race.
like two german general discussing
“the jewish” question at the wannsee conference
isn’t it? still we do have to thank watchdog for
belying backup’s unctuous and ill informed patter
on his view of race in america.
good dog!
*
February 27th, 2009 at 1:12 pmI’ll answer. Grose’s comment was that he thought the stereotype of black people liking watermelon was funny. I do not think it was funny.
I think his attempt at humor was ignorant and unenlightened.
The point that I’m making, is not that we should give Grose a pass.
The point that I’m making is that when you breach the topic of race or racial stereotypes, there is a high risk that you will suffer significant repercussions.
I offered the example of McCain making a ethnic joke about drunken Irish. There was no thought that he should resign. Or that he was somehow racist or bigoted.
I only believe that because the stakes are high, when we discuss (or comment or joke) about race – people avoid the subject altogether. They don’t want to expose themselves to the repercussions.
It is that avoidance, that I believe is the root cause of our cowardice on the subject.
That’s it.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:12 pmB-cup, I’ll type slowly for you…
How is Grose’s email not a comment on race?
To term it a “comment” demeans the idea of discourse of a subject rather than a racist action. Grose didn’t intend to further dialogue but to make a racist joke at a minority’s expense. That is clear.
Again, I’m not saying it’s enlightened. It was ignorant.
It was only ignorant if Grose didn’t know it was racist. His position and age make that possibility virtually non-existent.
I’m just stating a fact. Grose comments on race. Now, he’s looking for a new job
Repeating errant terminology doesn’t strengthen your case. A hate-crime is not a “comment on race” though it falls under your definition. If you don’t understand the difference, you don’t want to understand the difference.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:13 pmIn fact, the racist associations of Black Americans and eating watermelon dates back to pre Civil war, and was used in satirical newspaper cartoons and posters, etc, for over a century. Black slaves were often depicted eating watermelon, in overly racist caricatures.
It is common knowledge to anyone with a 6th grade education.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:14 pmYou’re a freaking idiot, b-cup.
Fred is right. You’ve crossed some bad threshold. Maybe we pushed you to it, maybe it was inevitable, I don’t know. But you’ve lost it, dude.
Egon’s gone bye-bye.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:15 pm119.backup Says: I’ll answer. Grose’s comment was that he thought the stereotype of black people liking watermelon was funny. I do not think it was funny.
Grose also said he didn’t know there was such an association. Was he lying then or is he lying now? Are you?
February 27th, 2009 at 1:16 pmWhoa.
Wait one frickin’ minute.
bahickup, are you saying that because Grose “thinks the stereotype that black people like watermelon is funny” is NOT racist?
No offense, but you sir(?) are the COWARD!!
February 27th, 2009 at 1:16 pmThe guys a Mayor of US City.
Not a late night comedian.
What he did was unacceptable on every level.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:16 pmjoe make my point for me.
I offer an opinion of this racial issue and now I’m compared to nazi’s exterminating jews.
Do you need more evidence than this, to understand why we may be a nation of coward’s on the subject?
Thank you, joe.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:17 pmThey both are. There’s no way anyone over 40 could not know the association.
Impossible.
He’s either lying, or too stupid to be left walking alone in public.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:17 pmwatchdog Says:
Nevar Says:
——————————————————————————–
watchdog Says: The green color of the watermelon is considered by many to be good luck.
Do you chew the seeds and swallow them, or swallow them whole, or spit them out?
I usually like to spit them a little black kids!
*
backup Says:
Here’s some definitions for comment.
http://www.answers.com/topic/comment
How is Grose’s email not a comment on race?
Again, I’m not saying it’s enlightened. It was ignorant.
I’m just stating a fact. Grose comments on race. Now, he’s looking for a new job. [he resigned]
*
the “dialogue” continues.
two sides of the same coin.
*
backup, losing your argument about
limbaugh yesterday has really left you feeling kind of
bitter, hasn’t it?
look, i know your trying for kant but what your
coming up with is joe, the plumber. and even
he’d be embarrassed.
:)
February 27th, 2009 at 1:18 pmWaynebro. I agree. you may be missing my point.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:18 pmI’m just stating a fact. Grose comments on race. Now, he’s looking for a new job.
No. He said it was intended to be funny. Not comment. Funny. Nowhere has it been explained why or to whom he intended it to be funny.
His apology? Please…the only thing he’s sorry about is that he got caught.
He forwards a stereotype, because he thinks it’s funny. Then he loses his job over it. (Fixed it for you.)
If there is jeopardy over losing your job, in regards to a particular subject – it’s practical to avoid it.
I am fairly certain that fall into the HR arena of Zero Tolerance for matters of perception of discrimination of any sort – especially if soon-to-be-Ex-Mayor Grose used his mayoral email address.
Not cowardly…just willfully trivializing the matter.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:19 pmWRONG bahickup.
We (as in TP) are not a nation of cowards because right now, WE are discussing it!
You justifying the content of said email, and claiming it was ignorance, not racist, is what make YOU a COWARD for not condemning such bigotry.
’nuff said!!!!
February 27th, 2009 at 1:19 pmThe problem with watchdog, boozer (glad your back – yeah), and backup is they’ve never experienced racism, only practiced it.
People of all races in this country experience racism. It’s true. It’s also true that this country could use an open disucssion on race.
However, when I think of it (and I don’t dwell on it), there is only one other race in our history that can compare to what african americans went through, native americans.
Our history is full of shame. It’s not wrong to acknowledge it. It’s not wrong to try to change it, and it’s not wrong to point it out wherever you find it.
I find it insulting to even talk to these people or even have to read their posts. I’m glad you guys are taking over and slapping them down.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:19 pm“He said he was unaware of the racial stereotype that black people like watermelons.”
Someone in this day and age that doesn’t know that is too stupid to be a mayor.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:19 pmbackup Says:
What he did was unacceptable on every level.
Waynebro. I agree. you may be missing my point.
*
take off your hat and let’s see it.
*
February 27th, 2009 at 1:20 pmAnd for those uneducated neocons out there like Watchdog still denying the term is common knowledge, here.
Take a look at this caricature from a postcard from the early 1900’s, and educate yourself a bit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1900sc_Postcard-Watermelon_04.jpg
It’s common knowledge that the term is racist and I am getting tired of the right wing idiots here and elsewhere trying to pretend it is not.
As if their pretending will somehow change a few centuries of recorded history.
You may think we are as stupid and ignorant as you, but clearly no one other than yourselves is capable of the feat.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:20 pmnow really backup ya gotta admit
you walked into that one, right?
:)
February 27th, 2009 at 1:20 pmI’m a coward and a nazi for offering up an opinion about why we may be a nation of cowards.
Is anyone here beginning to understand why people in America may be hesitant to address racial issues?
February 27th, 2009 at 1:20 pmThe way you present that, you make it sound like anyone who makes ANY comment on race will be treated to the same level of scorn.
No. You are being treated with scorn because you make specious arguments and repeat them, as if repetition gives them some weight they don’t otherwise possess.
Not all “comments on race” (to use your very loosely applied label) deserve respect.
Grose’s “comment on race” doesn’t deserve respect because it doesn’t offer any respect. Yours doesn’t deserve any respect because you’re not offering it with any intellectual rigor or honesty.
This, sadly, has become your stock-in-trade.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:21 pmYes bahickup, I can see why you’d not want to bring up race issue and bigotry, because you’re always trying to defend it!
February 27th, 2009 at 1:23 pmjoe. come on. I offer up an opinion as to why people are hesitant to talk about race.
Go back through my comments and show me how you made the leap to me being a nazi jew exterminator.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:23 pmralph. Explain how different a joke about black people liking watermelon is from a joke about Irish people liking booze.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:24 pmbackup Says:
having a dialogue on race.
like two german general discussing
“the jewish” question at the wannsee conference
joe make my point for me.
I offer an opinion of this racial issue and now I’m compared to nazi’s exterminating jews.
Do you need more evidence than this, to understand why we may be a nation of coward’s on the subject?
Thank you, joe.
*
make = makes
you’re getting nervous and excited.
*
very glossy, backup, but false.
racism, whether the ugly kind practiced by watchdog
or the pretty, socially acceptable variety you cling to
still leaves a very bad taste.
*
can’t change that with a million words backup.
***
February 27th, 2009 at 1:28 pmralph. I agree. Go back and look at my comments. Grose doesn’t deserve respect.
The point is, he opened his mouth about race and felt compelled to quit his job.
Those stakes are high.
Are they as high for other topics?
Holder says we are a nation of cowards on race. I agree. I’m only suggesting a reason why we are a nation of cowards.
Because the stakes are high.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:28 pmjoe. you make me nervous and excited, but only in a good, tingly kind of way.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:28 pmwatching backedup try to backup from his backwards racist statement is high comedy
these rednecks really don’t get it
February 27th, 2009 at 1:31 pmI agree with back-up just a little bit. But the dialogue only works when the racist party feels self-conscious about their racism, is in the process of questioning its validity, and wants to think otherwise. The watermelon patch at the White House screams NOT READY to talk seriously about racism. It screams I WANT PEOPLE TO VALIDATE MY RACISM.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:33 pmI’ve lived in a number of cities in the US. And CA has the most racist public officials of anywhere I’ve ever been. Especially OC. I’m surprised the cops don’t drive around in white hoods.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:33 pm141.backup Says: ralph. Explain how different a joke about black people liking watermelon is from a joke about Irish people liking booze.
Let’s jettison this detour now. This is called “a straw man.” This does not extend the dialogue, this is a comparative fallacy, meaning one joke provides justification for any and all racial slurs.
“Tu Quoque,” attempts to justify by comparative means.
You’re attempting to misdirect with a bona fide fallacy, b-cup. Cowardly.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:33 pmfallacy is backedup’s drug of choice
February 27th, 2009 at 1:35 pmbackup Says:
No offense, but you sir(?) are the COWARD!!
I’m a coward and a nazi for offering up an opinion about why we may be a nation of cowards.
Is anyone here beginning to understand why people in America may be hesitant to address racial issues?
*
“hesitant”?
you and your fellow trolls have been here for the last
week trying to sell your poison.
do ever look at yourself in the mirror?
do you see your own reflection?
your egotism is absolutely radiant.
***
do we win pin a medal on james adkisson
because he was “brave” enough to have
a dialogue on liberals?!
***
February 27th, 2009 at 1:35 pmWrong, idiot.
He didn’t lose his job because he “opened his mouth on race”.
He “lost his job” because he (figuratively) opened his mouth and something ignorant came out.
This is not a consequence of our “cowardice” to discuss race.
It’s a consequence of our awareness that racism is unacceptable.
You confuse the two and it makes you look stupid.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:35 pmbackup Says:
ralph. Explain how different a joke about black people liking watermelon is from a joke about Irish people liking booze.
An Irish-American making a joke about the Irish and drink is the equivalent of a white man making a watermelon joke about the first Black president? WTF is wrong with you?
And for the third time: was the “joke” racist?
February 27th, 2009 at 1:35 pmI offer up a suggestion about why we may be a nation of cowards in regards to race and I’m considered a racist redneck.
Wouldn’t people that would rather not be considered a racist redneck, simply avoid the subject?
February 27th, 2009 at 1:35 pmThe joke was racist.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:36 pmkeep spinning, backedup, you have been exposed
you can try all the semantic tricks you want
we are smarter than that
February 27th, 2009 at 1:37 pmbackup Says:
you’re getting nervous and excited.
joe. you make me nervous and excited, but only in a good, tingly kind of way.
*
so you’re changing the dialogue now?
do you actually know anything about this subject
or are you going to try and wing it again?
**
February 27th, 2009 at 1:40 pmIf racism is unacceptable, wouldn’t it compel people to stay as far away from the appearance of racism, as possible?
Seeing that people make errors in judgement, or can be misunderstood, wouldn’t it make sense to avoid the topic, when you consider the consequences.
Because those consequences are high, the frank conversation of race we need, is being deferred.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:40 pmMan, b-cup can spin with the best of ‘em, can’t he?
Do you deejay on the weekend for extra money, b-cup?
February 27th, 2009 at 1:41 pmbackedup is now just being dishonest and trying to justify his defense of racism
you lose backedup, nothing you say now can change that
next
February 27th, 2009 at 1:41 pmFrom now on when we draw pictures of conservative leaders wearing red Armbands with Swastika’s on them, please don’t associate that with us calling them Nazi’s.
Ok?
February 27th, 2009 at 1:42 pmbackup Says:
watching backedup try to backup from his backwards racist statement is high comedy
these rednecks really don’t get it
I offer up a suggestion about why we may be a nation of cowards in regards to race and I’m considered a racist redneck.
Wouldn’t people that would rather not be considered a racist redneck, simply avoid the subject?
*
i printed other troll droppings
right next to yours, you maroon.
are you blind? did you not see them?
you are not alone. you are flanked by
plenty of other “brave” racists.
god, would you please get over yourself?!
***
February 27th, 2009 at 1:42 pmBackup #141
Time for a rant.
I’m a white guy. My life has been threatend on a number of occassions by black guys. I’ve been chased down the street by black guys. My life has been saved by black guys.
I’ve driven through Texas and stopped in a truck stop where the all white truckers chased my black friend and I out of the stop and tried to run us off the road for the next hundred miles. I still remember what they yelled as they chased us, and I remember how my friend felt. He would have rather died there fighting. I saved his life by getting him out of there. I dread to think what would have happened if it had been a black woman.
I dated a black woman for years (she broke my heart) and her family took me just like I was one of there own. The people at work weren’t so kind and made my life miserable.
My best friends now are black. There’s no meaning there other than they just happen to be.
In CA the racism on public display is everywhere, from unarmed prone position murder (as in the Bart case in Sunnyvale), to beatings and racist aholes in our government.
Do I blame the black guys that at times made my life miserable. Not at all. Never ever ever. It’s there reality, and it’s not a fake reality. We made it for them, it’s part of their history.
And Aholes like you just perpetuate it. I’m shaking just typing this. You guys are scum of the earth. Get enlightened or go away.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:43 pmbackup, there is no race called Irish.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:44 pmExplain how different a joke about black people liking watermelon is from a joke about Irish people liking booze.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
Sophistry.
A hundred-fifty years ago there was no practical difference. but the Irish are no longer a despised minority. They are assimilated: culturally, linguistically, aesthetically, they are part of and virtually indistinguishable from the ‘majority’ (white) culture. Drunken Irishman jokes are anachronisms, play to abandoned stereotypes and filled metaphors.
You may have noticed that the same is not yet true for the black population on the whole. They are still a (consciously, conspicuously) dis-empowered, despised minority. To make race the subject (as well as the context) of jokes about them is to perpetuate the very oppression for suffering from which you feel entitled to mock them.
Your ‘ignorance’ is merely a guise behind which you seek camouflage for your repellent racism.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:46 pmGrose has since apologized, saying the picture was never meant to offend anyone
Proving without a doubt his total ignorance &/or stupidity.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:46 pmRich. racism is a real problem. It is what you say it is. Grose’s email was racist.
Holder believes we are a nation of cowards when it comes to discussing race.
I don’t disagree with anything you say. I am only saying that I think people may be reluctant to talk about race openly, because, in the back of their minds, they know that they could open themselves up to being ridiculed, accused or racism, or in the case of Grose, may even lose their jobs.
I believe that if people avoid the subject, their prejudice or bigotry doesn’t go away, it is only suppressed.
I’m not making excuse for Grose. He’s ignorant.
But, when people see him resign, it doesn’t foster an atmosphere of greater discussion. It makes people less willing to risk talking about race. Because of a fear of the possible consequences.
I’m sorry those things happened to you and your friend.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:52 pmGrose has since apologized, saying the picture was never meant to offend anyone
Proving without a doubt his total ignorance &/or stupidity.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
Bullshit! It was a “nopology.” A true apology requires the offender to admit the insult. “If I offended anybody” doesn’t answer that requirement. Grose is the epitome of gutless racist phuque.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:53 pmI suggest a reason that we may be a nation of cowards on race and I’m accused of ignorant racism.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:53 pmtokin. (or anyone). please cut and paste a statement I’ve made that you consider racist.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:55 pmStupid, stupid, stupid. How many ways is your statement just plain ridiculous? About a million.
If you can’t have a discussion about race without using the n word then you’re not trying are you little man? Now go to your room and stay there and think about what I just said.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:56 pmBackup,
Thanks for acknowledging my post. However, if you can’t tell the difference between the black experience and the irish experience in the US, then you actually are part of the problem.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:57 pmbahickup,
for the umpteenth time.
You keep saying Grose was ignorant regarding the email.
You are defending his bigotry by defining it’s content as “he just didn’t know”.
In other words, Grose didn’t know that sending an email to his constituents regarding WATERMELON and a BLACK PRESIDENT would be considered offensive.
Riiiiight!
Except, of course, one did find it to be offending and not funny. And she happened to be of the race the email was making fun of.
So, I ask of you (to which blotchdog failed miserably), please construe for us how this particular email was NOT racist.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:57 pm166. backup Says: I don’t disagree with anything you say. I am only saying that I think people may be reluctant to talk about race openly, because, in the back of their minds, they know that they could open themselves up to being ridiculed, accused or racism, or in the case of Grose, may even lose their jobs.
Depends on the delivery. Declaring an intent to understand is one thing. A mayor and business leader sending an image with historically racist overtones is something else entirely. That is not a ‘commentary’ and your repeated attempts to classify it as such is offensive as well.
Your attempt at mission-creep is a complete failure, btw.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:58 pmbackup Says:
But, when people see him resign, it doesn’t foster an atmosphere of greater discussion. It makes people less willing to risk talking about race. Because of a fear of the possible consequences.
This is where you’re stuck, whether willfully or not.
He wasn’t “talking about race”, he made a racist “joke.” “Talking about race” is, well, it’s talking about race.
He wasn’t engaged in a discussion, backup.
Jeebus, why do I even try?!!!
February 27th, 2009 at 1:59 pmIf you compare a remark that even you have declared to be racisty to a comment by another person who is trying to elevate the discussion on racism in a positive way then you are a racist for making the comprison as it is designed to defuse the true racist remark and belittle the discussion of racism………
go do your homework kid.
February 27th, 2009 at 2:01 pmbackup Says:
And Aholes like you just perpetuate it. I’m shaking just typing this. You guys are scum of the earth. Get enlightened or go away.
Rich. racism is a real problem. It is what you say it is. Grose’s email was racist.
Holder believes we are a nation of cowards when it comes to discussing race.
I don’t disagree with anything you say. I am only saying that I think people may be reluctant to talk about race openly, because, in the back of their minds, they know that they could open themselves up to being ridiculed, accused or racism, or in the case of Grose, may even lose their jobs.
I believe that if people avoid the subject, their prejudice or bigotry doesn’t go away, it is only suppressed.
I’m not making excuse for Grose. He’s ignorant.
But, when people see him resign, it doesn’t foster an atmosphere of greater discussion. It makes people less willing to risk talking about race. Because of a fear of the possible consequences.
I’m sorry those things happened to you and your friend.
*
grose was not making dialogue on the subject of race.
he made a racist joke.
racist jokes are not dialogue.
he apologize and resigned as mayor
of a city of 12.000. the compensation for
the position is probably minimal if any.
he and his family are not on a bread line no
how hard you try to mislead people into believing
otherwise.
*
ps – your limbaugh/hope obama fails
argument has a new ally today.
tom delay.
congrats.
***
February 27th, 2009 at 2:02 pmbackup Says:
tokin. (or anyone). please cut and paste a statement I’ve made that you consider racist.
*
you can pick one out of a hat.
(what color is the sky in your world?)
*
February 27th, 2009 at 2:06 pma round, white cone shaped hat.
with a mask in the front.
*
February 27th, 2009 at 2:07 pmtokin. (or anyone). please cut and paste a statement I’ve made that you consider racist.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
you are a talented sophist, i’ll give you that.
but your innocence is another camouflage. you are clever enough to have at least heard–even if you did not believe–that racism is not even particularly about individual acts or words. Racism is a system of arrangements and agreements and understandings among the dominant culture which permits, even encourages those individual acts of terror to achieve the larger social goal of retaining the current imbalances–which are always profitable for the majority, and almost always exclude the minority.
Obama’s election has provided that system with a certain challenge, even though he is not a member of the ‘class’ with which the requirements of justice and equity are associated. He is nevertheless the most prominent AVATAR of those interests. I hope, actually, that the persistence of that rational racism, that ‘respectable’ racism garbed in ‘humor’ may eventually propel Obama to assume the burden of King and others to compel white folks to genuinely apologize, and to finally remove the barriers that still stand between them and us.
Black America was not ALWAYS poor. It is not wholly so now, though poverty is ever more visible.
No. Whites conducted a number of race riots in the early and middle years of the 20th Century which, if they wer not aimed at the black middle class, certainly had the effect of impoverishing them. Read up on Greenwood, OK. You may never have owned slaves, n or your family; but–depending on where you live–there’s a pretty good chance you know somebody who’s related to somebody who did a lynching, sometime.
Your racism comes in the form of seeking to excuse, somehow to mitigate, and find an excuse for the evidently racist Grose committed.
February 27th, 2009 at 2:12 pmRich. There is a huge difference. I’m on the same page.
The point I making is only that the reluctance for people to discuss the issue is based on the divisiveness of the issue and the high consequences aforementioned.
The consequences highlighted by Grose’s resignation.
February 27th, 2009 at 2:13 pmDeserves a re-post.
gummitch nails it.
‘Course, nailing a b-cup argument is like nailing jello to a wall…
February 27th, 2009 at 2:16 pmSo, many here call me a racist, but can’t show me how. and that’s okay. The only defense is that I’m a ‘talented sophist’.
Perhaps, it is not that I am talented, but the point has some validity.
We are a nation of cowards when it comes to discussing race. We are cowards because the consequences and likelihood of being viewed as a racist, whether they have foundation or not, are high.
People chose instead to avoid the issue altogether.
February 27th, 2009 at 2:19 pmbackup Says:
However, if you can’t tell the difference between the black experience and the irish experience in the US, then you actually are part of the problem.
Rich. There is a huge difference. I’m on the same page.
The point I making is only that the reluctance for people to discuss the issue is based on the divisiveness of the issue and the high consequences aforementioned.
The consequences highlighted by Grose’s resignation.
*
you better read that back to yourself and try again.
it makes no sense.
you’re going around in circles.
are you ok, backup?
***
again congrats on tom delay.
a tough sell i’m sure but you
got him on your side.
*
February 27th, 2009 at 2:19 pmHe resigned? GOOD.
People like him have no business in public service. Let him go and work at his local Klan office.
February 27th, 2009 at 2:22 pmbackup, McCain is a Irish name. Figure it out Einstein.
February 27th, 2009 at 2:23 pmI’m sure that if Hillary had won the Presidency, this idiot would send postcards of the Oval Kitchen and a bare-footed Hillary cooking in there, and would look surprised at being called sexist.
February 27th, 2009 at 2:25 pmbackup,
oh yeah, your one hell of a sophist.
like brother theodore.
*
party on dude.
:)
February 27th, 2009 at 2:26 pmWhich one of you a$$ nugget trolls was talking about white guilt? I don’t feel guilty just embarrassed to be part of the same group of ignorant white trash as you. But then again since I’m not a Republican I’m probably not even the same sub species as you.
February 27th, 2009 at 2:27 pmShayne Says:
backup, McCain is a Irish name. Figure it out Einstein.
Wait wait wait… if Grose had been African-American, it would still be wrong for him to send this postcard. Racism is racism, anything else would be a double standard and (in my opinion) unacceptable.
February 27th, 2009 at 2:27 pmAs has been pointed out repeatedly, you have no point and your post make’s it perfecly clear.
What’s it like being out of the closet captain, I mean you can be a flamboyant troll now, you don’t have to pretend to be reasonable anymore, right?
February 27th, 2009 at 2:29 pmbackup Says:
you are a talented sophist, i’ll give you that.
So, many here call me a racist, but can’t show me how. and that’s okay. The only defense is that I’m a ‘talented sophist’.
Perhaps, it is not that I am talented, but the point has some validity.
We are a nation of cowards when it comes to discussing race. We are cowards because the consequences and likelihood of being viewed as a racist, whether they have foundation or not, are high.
People chose instead to avoid the issue altogether.
***
oh backup,
you courageous, brave hero!
would you like some music with that?
*
what a culture warrior you are.
(sigh)
:)
February 27th, 2009 at 2:31 pmFred Says:
backup Says:
The point I making is only that the reluctance for people to discuss the issue is based on the divisiveness of the issue and the high consequences aforementioned.
As has been pointed out repeatedly, you have no point and your post make’s it perfecly clear.
What’s it like being out of the closet captain, I mean you can be a flamboyant troll now, you don’t have to pretend to be reasonable anymore, right?
*
pretend?
*
February 27th, 2009 at 2:32 pmYes it would, and I hope no Irish people that heard it voted for McCain. Grose didn’t have to resign he chose to. I do believe though that every ethnic group tells jokes about themselves and I would prefer not to get in the middle of infighting. But that’s just me.
February 27th, 2009 at 2:33 pmIs there nothing so heinous one of their brethren can do that these trolls won’t show up to defend him.
February 27th, 2009 at 2:35 pmnowhere did I defend this.
February 27th, 2009 at 2:36 pmwell fellas he came here for a prop
and he got one (sophist)
and now he’s gone into the bathroom
to say it to himself over and over again in the mirror.
“sophist, sophist, sophist…”
*
thanks token, if i knew it only took
that i would have called him sophist the
minute he showed up and spared us
all his racist crap.
<<<
February 27th, 2009 at 2:37 pmno one is avoiding the issue of race in this instance
the mayor did something racist, it has now been thrust into the national dialogue and he has been condemned for being racist.
enough so that he resigned, and deservedly so.
where is the avoidance backup?
how is this not a productive thing to do, in the sense that we are holding a public official accountable for promoting hate and ignorance (if you dont think thats what racist jokes do, then wow)
the only cowards are people like you in this instance backup, you’re saying we have to respect the points of views of the racists and allow them to continue to comment on the dialogue
the cowardly thing to do is to not speak out loudly and strongly whenever you see racism
which is what has happened by the majority here… you are one of the few examples of people who haven’t been harsh in your criticism of him but have rather been defending him as merely commenting on race.
please stop defending the racist mayor
February 27th, 2009 at 2:37 pmbackup Says:
You are defending his bigotry by defining it’s content as “he just didn’t know”.
nowhere did I defend this.
*
oh jesus.
you’re a sophist, you’re a sophist, you’re a sophist,
you’re a fu(king sophist!
*
now pick up your little trophy
and get out of here.
*
February 27th, 2009 at 2:40 pmPeople chose instead to avoid the issue altogether.
correction….
racists choose to avoid the issue altogether.
i find dialogues about race, class, sex, and gender interesting if furthers my understanding of other people.
the mayor only promotes ignorance.
no one who has positive things to say about race relations ever avoids the discussion
February 27th, 2009 at 2:41 pmI make a suggestion of why we may be a nation of cowards in regards to discussing race and I’m smeared as a racist klansman.
Is anyone starting to understand the reluctance of many to engage in a discussion about race?
February 27th, 2009 at 2:42 pmThat’s just your pitiful opinion. the opinion of everyone here is that you are. Don’t ask me to prove it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!
can we have a pool dad?
February 27th, 2009 at 2:45 pmcan we have a pool dad?
can we have a pool dad?
can we have a pool dad?
can we have a pool dad?
can we have a pool dad?
can we have a pool dad?
can we have a pool dad?
can we have a pool dad?
can we have a pool dad?
can we have a pool dad?
can we have a pool dad?
can we have a pool dad?
can we have a pool dad?
can we have a pool dad?
can we have a pool dad?
can we have a pool dad?
can we have a pool dad?
calavzma.
I’m not avoiding the issue.
Am I racist?
February 27th, 2009 at 2:45 pmI love how watchdog wants to turn Grose into a victim here…he’s not the oppressor, he’s the oppressed being oppressed by African-American and liberal outrage…the guy’s losing his job for heaven’s sake! Boo hoo…It’s always people like him who think that racism is a thing of the past because we elected an African-American president…and that the bigger outrage is a victim of racism expressing outrage than the racism itself…
it’s the GOP card they always play…but when they’re outraged about something, heaven forbid someone stop them from whining and crying
With all due respect, backup, actions have consequences and he got his just deserts…He is doing the right thing by resigning, but still he should have known. The feigning of ignorance is not credible imho and it seems that every time racists get caught, it’s the in thing to claim ignorance over the matter. Just not credible…
February 27th, 2009 at 2:46 pmbackup Says:
a round, white cone shaped hat.
with a mask in the front.
I make a suggestion of why we may be a nation of cowards in regards to discussing race and I’m smeared as a racist klansman.
Is anyone starting to understand the reluctance of many to engage in a discussion about race?
*
try this:
we’re a nation of cowards.
we’re reluctant to engage in a dialogue on race.
you’re not a klansman.
you’re a sophist.
feel better?
*
anything else?
a new car?
trip to hawaii?
***
February 27th, 2009 at 2:46 pmStill waiting for you to make sense……..if/when that ever happens, we will go from there. Are you kin to the troll john kerry, you are starting to act just like him.
February 27th, 2009 at 2:47 pmbackup Says:
calavzma.
racists choose to avoid the issue altogether.
I’m not avoiding the issue.
Am I racist?
*
fred has a good point.
no matter what they taught
you at sophist school
saying it over (and over)
again doesn’t make it so.
*
focus on the family’s looking
for a new president.
interested?
**
February 27th, 2009 at 2:50 pmFred Says:
backup Says:
Is anyone starting to understand the reluctance of many to engage in a discussion about race?
Still waiting for you to make sense……..if/when that ever happens, we will go from there. Are you kin to the troll john kerry, you are starting to act just like him.
*
they many common traits.
repeating themselves is just one of them.
***
February 27th, 2009 at 2:51 pmIt’s worth mentioning that this mayor forwarded the “joke” to people who worked for him, some of whom were black. That’s called a “hostile work environment,” which makes you liable to a discrimination lawsuit. And that’s the main reason that it’s relevant to his job. Now he needn’t have resigned. He could have apologized and maybe survived the flap.
.
boozer Says:
Juan, I think it goes back to the watermelon postcard that our 1st black President sent to his “mawmaww”. Apparently some people ascribed racist motives to it.
Let me get this straight: you believe that the “watermelon” stereotype did not exist before 1992. That’s what you’re saying here.
.
backup Says:
What I’m saying is this: He comments on race. He forwards a stereotype, because he mistakenly thinks it’s funny. Then he loses his job over it.
If there is jeopardy over losing your job, in regards to a particular subject – it’s practical to avoid it.
It is, if you don’t know what’s racist or not, which is only true of racists. I’m fine with not having them included in “the discussion.”
Look, I talk about race all the time. So do many people here. We manage to do just fine without telling racist-stereotype jokes “by accident.” When people start doing that, that’s when it stops becoming a “discussion” in any real sense of the term.
Pointing out that such comments are racist is having the discussion! That’s what we’re doing! We’re discussing it! Right now!
.
watchdog Says:
I think Black Americans should be offended by people who tell them what they need to be offended about. It’s not the blacks that are offended, it’s the ignorant liberal white’s that have a loud mouth and no black friends. White Guilt is a damaging thing!!
Decent people are offended by offensiveness, whether it’s directed at them or at the person standing next to them. I don’t tell black people what to be offended about, I am offended. And not just on their behalf.
.
backup Says:
Honestly, did anyone suggest that McCain should withdraw from the race over this ethnic slur?
Many people were offended by McCain’s “joke.” The only reasons he managed to get away with that at all was that 1) he’s of Irish descent, and 2) it wasn’t nearly the worst “joke” that he’s told. He was still criticized for it.
Also, he lost the election. That might tell you something right there.
.
watchdog Says:
The green color of the watermelon is considered by many to be good luck.
The Citrulline which exists in watermelon is a known stimulator of nitric oxide, NO is thought to relax and expand blood vessels, much like the erectile dysfunction drug, Viagra,
The card could have wished the president luck, or implied he is well endowed.
How is that funny? Admit it, you’re really stretching now. That’s not the first thing you thought when you saw the image. You had to do some research to make that excuse up; the excuse you presented did not already exist as common knowledge. You’ve got to really be sticking your head in the sand to pretend that there isn’t a long and storied history of racists using the watermelon stereotype.
.
watchdog Says:
I usually like to spit them a little black kids!
So, you admit that it and you are both racist. Got it.
.
bristol palins baby Says:
backup, there is no race called Irish.
Before about 1950, all of the various European ethnicities considered themselves to be different races. Since about 1970, they all sort of conglomerated into “white.” If you took a time machine to 1920’s New York and asked someone to list the races, they’d start listing German, Italian, Irish, French, etc. etc. Race itself is a completely arbitrary social construct. The fact that the definition of what constitutes a “race” demonstrates that it has no validity to begin with.
.
backup Says:
tokin. (or anyone). please cut and paste a statement I’ve made that you consider racist.
Let me put it this way – if someone can’t tell the difference between a racist slur and a productive comment regarding race relations, then they’re a racist. Not being a racist involves knowing the difference. Your entire thesis here is that people with valid opinions (non-racists) can’t tell the difference (racists). Which implies that you don’t understand the difference. Which logically implies that you are a racist. The racist statement you’re making is that racist slurs count as valid commentary.
.
backup Says:
We are a nation of cowards when it comes to discussing race. We are cowards because the consequences and likelihood of being viewed as a racist, whether they have foundation or not, are high.
Except that you keep using examples of statements that do have a valid foundation of being viewed as racist to support your point. If it was in the context of an unfounded accusation, you might have a point. But as it is, you’re just defending people making ignorant, bigoted statements.
.
backup Says:
Is anyone starting to understand the reluctance of many to engage in a discussion about race?
I understand the reluctance of bigots to engage in a discussion about race. And I’m just fine with that.
February 27th, 2009 at 2:54 pmwould they take an agnostic?
February 27th, 2009 at 2:58 pmbackup Says:
focus on the family’s looking
for a new president.
interested?
would they take an agnostic?
*
don’t worry about it.
your “dialogue on race/nation of cowards”
screed would win them over.
*
February 27th, 2009 at 3:01 pmI’m not saying that people shouldn’t know the difference. But, people can use poor judgement.
McCain may have used poor judgement with the Irish joke, but the consequences weren’t that high.
The point is that people understand that the consequences are high when discussing race. If they are not confident in their judgement, they will avoid the discussion.
Jesse Jackson has had much positive impact on our national debate on race.
Should his poor judgement here:
http://www.emulsioncompulsion.com/tag/jesse-jackson-fox
be grounds to dismiss his voice from the discussion?
February 27th, 2009 at 3:04 pmbackup Says:
Let me put it this way – if someone can’t tell the difference between a racist slur and a productive comment regarding race relations, then they’re a racist.
I’m not saying that people shouldn’t know the difference. But, people can use poor judgement.
McCain may have used poor judgement with the Irish joke, but the consequences weren’t that high.
The point is that people understand that the consequences are high when discussing race. If they are not confident in their judgement, they will avoid the discussion.
Jesse Jackson has had much positive impact on our national debate on race.
Should his poor judgement here:
http://www.emulsioncompulsion.com/tag/jesse-jackson-fox
be grounds to dismiss his voice from the discussion?
*
my god, you’re going to beat this to death.
then you’re going to shoot yourself and beat
it to death in the afterlife aren’t you?
are you ocd?
***
get help.
*
February 27th, 2009 at 3:09 pmbackup Says:
Jesse Jackson has had much positive impact on our national debate on race.
Should his poor judgement here:
http://www.emulsioncompulsion.com/tag/jesse-jackson-fox
be grounds to dismiss his voice from the discussion?
1) He’s still talking ain’t he? Nobody’s dismissed him.
February 27th, 2009 at 3:21 pm2) I see in the link you posted that Jackson apologized for the comment.
3) The comment you cited, while offensive, isn’t racist. Again, you demonstrate that you can’t tell the difference. If you wanted to call Jackson out on an actual racist statement he’s made, then you should have cited this one instead.
joe. (and others)
alright. I will make the point one last time and leave the thread to a more relative peace.
I could be right or wrong. Maybe I don’t see what you see. And I am prone to less than perfect communication.
But, I made a point that because people like Grose (who I did not defend) are compelled to resign when they make comments about race (although I concede his was ignorant and racist), that maybe those who do not trust their own judgement, might avoid the conversations, because they fear a similar consequence.
It is noteworthy, that although my position may be wrong, I don’t believe that it is based in racism?
But, because I engaged in the discussion, I was implicated as a klansman, redneck racist, nazi jew exterminator, etc.
That is the point. People may tend to avoid the conversations, if they would rather not subject themselves to either the scrutiny or the misunderstood prejudice or the character assassination.
February 27th, 2009 at 3:30 pmbackup Says:
joe. (and others)
alright. I will make the point one last time and leave the thread to a more relative peace. [if only]
I could be right or wrong. Maybe I don’t see what you see. And I am prone to less than perfect communication. [you? the great sophist?]
But, I made a point that because people like Grose (who I did not defend) are compelled [it was voluntary] to resign when they make comments about race (although I concede his was ignorant and racist), that maybe those who do not trust their own judgement, [tip: if you don't trust your own judgement stand mute until you've learned something on the subject. try it sometime backup] might avoid the conversations, because they fear a similar consequence.
It is noteworthy, that although my position may be wrong, I don’t believe that it is based in racism? [this makes absolutely no sense]
But, because I engaged in the discussion, I was implicated as a klansman, redneck racist, nazi jew exterminator, etc. [are you on an all day pity party? how much crying can you do for yourself?]
That is the point. People may tend to avoid [avoid? you've run headlong into it for the last fu(king week!] the conversations, if they would rather not subject themselves to either the scrutiny [the way you scrutinzed tp's headline on mark sanford] or the misunderstood prejudice or the character assassination.
*
print your comments.
take them to a reputable psychiatrist.
get help.
*
February 27th, 2009 at 3:46 pmYou still don’t get it, and this is why you have earned a reputation as a disingenuous troll.
He wasn’t compelled to resign because “he made a comment about race”.
He was compelled to resign because he SENT A RACIST CARTOON.
When you conflate the two, your argument falls to pieces.
February 27th, 2009 at 3:49 pmInteresting how racists are unable to understand they are racists, eh?
February 27th, 2009 at 4:04 pmbackup,
it takes a real sophist
to get hagster and watchdog
on you side. congratulations,
you’ve earned them.
()
February 27th, 2009 at 4:17 pmyou = your
*
February 27th, 2009 at 4:19 pmMy guess is simply by reading b-cup’s many substandard posts, which tend to rely on straw man reasoning, false dichotomies and diversion under the guise of “reasonable debate”.
February 27th, 2009 at 5:39 pmBesides, who among us possesses perfect knowledge, reasoning ability or understanding?
You, freddy?
I sure don’t.
February 27th, 2009 at 5:40 pmHey guys, we we’re joined in by three different racists in the past dozen or so posts.
I’m tired of talking sense to people who have none. If you want to join in, please do.
February 27th, 2009 at 5:41 pmwatchdog Says:
Good thing being a bigot can’t get you fired. Every liberal in America would be out of work!!
1. Being a bigot can get you fired, if you expose your co-workers to your bigotry.
February 27th, 2009 at 5:49 pm2. What?
So let me see if I have your “position” correct.
You’re saying that when an elected public official not only makes a racist comment that insults black Americans everywhere, and the President of the United States, but sends it in an email to people that include black Americans, …that there should be no consequences?
:|
That’s your position?
February 27th, 2009 at 6:12 pmWaynebro, I think b-cup’s position is not so much that there should be no consequences for “making a comment of race” like this.
I think it’s more that this is the reason we are a “nation of cowards” as the Attorney General said — because we can’t “comment on race” without fear of “losing a job”.
Never mind that most “comments on race” in a reasoned dialogue do not take the form of cartoons trading in racist stereotypes. It’s the “comment on race” that is the problem, apparently.
February 27th, 2009 at 6:19 pmThey’ve always been on his side.
And he on theirs.
Backup is what is commonly referred to as a “Concern Troll”.
Rather than taking the difficult position of defending the indefensible and pushing far right doctrines openly, the concern troll comes into blogs to try and cloud issues, back off people from their positions by expressing their “concern” that the issue may be “misunderstood”.
The concern troll is easily more reprehensible than the regular troll, in that the concern troll hides his true intentions and relies on deception and subterfuge to help sell his positions and defeat yours. The regular troll at least admits what it is.
February 27th, 2009 at 6:20 pmYea, I got that part of his position but its bogus, because its a straw position.
That position would only merit plausibility if the Mayor had been “discussing race”.
And since he wasn’t discussing race at all, but instead sending out hate mail, the position is just more deception from an obvious concern troll.
February 27th, 2009 at 6:22 pmWikipedia
February 27th, 2009 at 6:25 pmWAYNEBRO Says:
So let me see if I have your “position” correct.
You’re saying that when an elected public official not only makes a racist comment that insults black Americans everywhere, and the President of the United States, but sends it in an email to people that include black Americans, …that there should be no consequences?
Exactly. According to backup, people shouldn’t point out that it’s a disgustingly bigoted stereotype, but rather thank him for his thoughtful contribution to the great American discussion on race. If they act all offended, then he might be afraid to speak up so boldly in the future, and that would stifle constructive debate.
February 27th, 2009 at 6:25 pmDamn, the bytch started this in the beginning of this
February 27th, 2009 at 6:26 pmthread and continues till now.
Urban Dictionary
February 27th, 2009 at 6:32 pmWaynebro, no argument with ya. b-cup is a classic concern troll, and he’s more insidious than most i’ve encountered because he plays the “reasonable” card so well.
Of course his position is bogus; that’s what we’ve been telling him all day. All I wanted to clarify was that the position you suggested wasn’t accurate, and was in fact a more benign (because more easily detected) than what he was really trying to push.
February 27th, 2009 at 6:43 pmI knew.
I was just baiting him.
I can take the regular trolls any day.
Its the concern trolls that really chap my hide.
February 27th, 2009 at 6:52 pmI’m with ya there, Waynebro.
At least the normal trolls are upfront about their intent.
February 27th, 2009 at 7:07 pmwaynebro,
we went over the “concern troll” thing
with backup on yesterday’s thread,
Santelli backs off his claim that the White House was threatening him.
he did not learn from it
or the lesson of tad furtado.
backup’s stubborn that way.
:)
February 27th, 2009 at 7:35 pmI checked back and I’ll try to respond to this concern troll charge.
Here’s from Waynebros link:
Alright. I’m open to this idea. But, in this thread, at what point did you get the impression I was trying to act as an ally? And what side of the discussion am I pretending to be on?
February 27th, 2009 at 8:04 pmHere’s the point from my original post:
Holder claims we are a nation of cowards when it comes to racial discussions.
Isn’t anyone curious why? How we became cowards? What causes it?
That doesn’t seem like an important question? If you know what caused it, maybe you could fix it.
My take may be wrong, but it is an effort.
I’ll ask again. What do you think it is? What do you think has caused us to be a nation of cowards?
February 27th, 2009 at 8:07 pmbackup Says:
I checked back and I’ll try to respond to this concern troll charge.
Here’s from Waynebros link:
In an argument (usually a political debate), a concern troll is someone who is on one side of the discussion, but pretends to be a supporter of the other side with “concerns”.
The idea behind this is that your opponents will take your arguments more seriously if they think you’re an ally.
Alright. I’m open to this idea. But, in this thread, at what point did you get the impression I was trying to act as an ally? And what side of the discussion am I pretending to be on?
*
i’m i on your payroll?
*
however,
from yesterday’s thread:
backup Says:
These Do-Nothings profess a commitment to social change for ideals of justice, equality, and opportunity, and then abstain from and discourage all effective action for change. They are known by their brand, ‘I agree with your ends but not your means.’
joe. unless you somehow actually are moving the controls of power, we are both just here debating. What action am I discouraging on this thread?
How does my agreement on progressive social issues fit into your conspiracy?
I’m not interesting in taking the time, but I’ve got dozens of past posts about how Obama is taking the right measures on social issues.
And, although I have questioned the stimulus bill, I questioned Bush’s attempts at stimulus.
Although, I have questioned why progressives weren’t questioning Obama’s foreign policy, I have supported Obama’s early moves in foreign policy.
I have chimed in with my support of progressive efforts to ensure the separation of church and state and progressive efforts to gain true equality for gays; to include gay marriage. And I have commented many times about how conservatives are lacking in race relations, especially among African Americans.
If I am a concern troll, when you consider all my support for Obama and other progressive ideas, maybe I’m not doing so good at it.
*
thank you for all of your help,
“brother progressive”.
*
February 27th, 2009 at 8:14 pmTrajan75 IQ Says:
B cup:
This is not a video game and you don’t start again with a clean slate on each new thread. Your reputation for being a concern troll is the sum total of the hundreds of threads where you have exhibited over and over and over and over again that you are nothing more than a boring concern troll.
*
jeez, traj
he’s on the keep saying it
until they scream track again.
*
backup, why can’t you stay on
your meds?
**
February 27th, 2009 at 8:16 pmbackup Says:
Here’s the point from my original post:
I’m not justifying what he did. But, it’s the answer to the question, why are we a nation of cowards when it comes to race.
The stakes are high when you talk about race. That’s just how it is.
Holder claims we are a nation of cowards when it comes to racial discussions.
Isn’t anyone curious why? How we became cowards? What causes it?
That doesn’t seem like an important question? If you know what caused it, maybe you could fix it.
My take may be wrong, but it is an effort.
I’ll ask again. What do you think it is? What do you think has caused us to be a nation of cowards?
*
yeah, but you’re not a coward, are you?
want a medal?
**.
February 27th, 2009 at 8:19 pmHow nice you are “open” to the idea. Your openness is duly noted.
As for what side of the discussion you were pretending to be on, given your immersion in obtuse ambiguity,.. I’d guess both?
:|
Why?
What side of the discussion do you think you were pretending to be on?
February 27th, 2009 at 8:22 pmIf I am a concern troll, wouldn’t I be universally supportive of the positions here, but with concerns?
How do you explain that I agree with some progressive ideas, but not others?
Maybe it’s possible that some people aren’t on ideological teams. And don’t have a stake in them. Don’t gauge what they believe based on what others might think.
Maybe some people agree with some ideas on a platform and disagree with others.
And maybe some people are less concerned with defending an ideology than they are with engaging in spirited debate to get to a better understanding.
February 27th, 2009 at 8:37 pmWell, if you were a stupid one. But if you were the least bit clever, you’d just muddy the water a bit, and bathe your nonsense in murky ambiguity and fabricated straw positions while backing people off their righteous indignation at things that deserve indignation.
Like your nonsense about a frank discussion of race when the actual subject is about an elected official sending a foul racist email out mocking African Americans and the President for their skin color.
February 27th, 2009 at 8:43 pmYea, maybe some people do.
But we’re talking about you.
February 27th, 2009 at 8:45 pmMust be nice to live in a world as simply and sharply delineated as b-cup’s.
If he’s not “universally supportive of the positions here” he cannot be a concern troll?
I guess we’ll have to come up with an entirely new category just for him.
How does “time-wasting troll” sound?
Nah. That’s redundant.
February 27th, 2009 at 8:52 pmOf course, as has been so clearly pointed out, you’ve gone out of your way to sell yourself in many threads as a “supporter of the topic”, while at the same time, trying to water down the topic, and remove any indignation where indignation’s due.
I don’t mind trolls. I really don’t. They’re loud, obnoxious, racist, mean spirited, and ignorant.
But at least they’re honest about what they are.
But the “concern troll”, …now there’s a different breed.
This type of troll worms its way into blogs, preying on the more gullible and seeding doubt, discontent and discord on the topics, always playing the concerned “moderate”, and never admitting to what it is.
You can respect the former, if for anything its audacity at proclaiming the perverted nonsense it proclaims.
But the latter is beneath contempt. A mere worm in the rotten apple of neoconservative blogging.
February 27th, 2009 at 8:52 pmWaynebro. you are making good arguments.
but, the guy feels compelled to resign because of his e-mail about the racial stereotype (he did the right thing). Did anyone think McCain should have been compelled to quit the race over his ‘drunken Irishman’ stereotype?
Can you think of any other topic that would result in people feeling compelled to resign?
The topic is divisive. Because it’s divisive, people avoid the topic.
Hence, we have become a nation of coward’s reluctant to have frank discussions about race.
Maybe I’m off the mark. But, something is causing the cowardice. Maybe instead of trying to pigeon hole me as a concern troll, which you are making a much better case than joe ever has BTW; maybe you could put your brain to a more productive endeavor and come up with your own explanation of why we have evolved (or why we continue) to be a nation of cowards.
Shooting down my idea; you’re doing great. Coming up with an alternative; not so good.
February 27th, 2009 at 8:57 pmLike in this little gem.
A gem on which I questioned you on, and yet you skirt over the question in your attempts at sidetracking the issue.
So I’ll pose my question again.
You’re saying that when an elected public official not only makes a racist comment that insults black Americans everywhere, and the President of the United States, but sends it in an email to people that include black Americans, …that there should be no consequences?
February 27th, 2009 at 8:58 pmI agree with the consequence. I’m only saying they are high. Because they are high, people avoid the subject. Because people avoid the subject, we have become a nation of cowards on race relations.
February 27th, 2009 at 9:00 pmSee Mr Concern Troll, your concern trolling is not a well disguised as you might think.
When you take an obvious racist offense of such a grievous nature, and this was of a grievous nature, after all it mocked African Americans across the board, as well as the President of the United States, merely for his skin color, AND it was sent to African Americans, ..so when you take it, and try and paint it as a “discussion of race”, you are guilty of creating a classic “straw argument”.
Which is a polite word for lie.
February 27th, 2009 at 9:04 pmbackup Says:
I agree with the consequence. I’m only saying they are high. Because they are high, people avoid the subject. Because people avoid the subject, we have become a nation of cowards on race relations.
*
do you get a nickel
every time you use
(and use and use)
that phrase?
?
February 27th, 2009 at 9:06 pmSee. Still trying to sell a hate message on race as a “comment on race”.
That’s akin to me describing a Nazi pinning a Star of David on a Jew as merely “acknowledging Judaism”.
Its a lie. A straw argument designed to lessen the offense so as to make it easier to defend, and harder to condemn.
February 27th, 2009 at 9:08 pmnation of cowards.
a search reveals that phrase has
been used forty four times
on this thread.
44 x .05 = $2.20.
will you take a check, backup?
*
February 27th, 2009 at 9:10 pmWAYNEBRO Says:
backup Says:
I agree with the consequence. I’m only saying they are high. Because they are high, people avoid the subject. Because people avoid the subject, we have become a nation of cowards on race relations.
See. Still trying to sell a hate message on race as a “comment on race”.
That’s akin to me describing a Nazi pinning a Star of David on a Jew as merely “acknowledging Judaism”.
Its a lie. A straw argument designed to lessen the offense so as to make it easier to defend, and harder to condemn.
*
hey backup is wayne making a better case
that you’re a nazi then i ever have, BTW?
*
just curious.
***
February 27th, 2009 at 9:14 pmNow you’re not even trying to conceal your concern trolling.
First, you placate to my ego, positioning yourself as an tepid ally or a moderate antagonist.
Then, you proceed to elevate the perpetrator to a loftier status in an obvious attempt to weaken criticism of him and diminish the offense.
Doing this just closed the book on whether or not you are concern trolling, as you’ve gone from muddying the offense to defending the offender.
Perhaps I misjudged your cleverness. Because the more you talk, the deeper the hole.
February 27th, 2009 at 9:15 pmwayne,
the part about “spirited debate”
is a crock too. he could care less
about that.
*
i think that the more he comments
the more i’m convinced that he is
tad furtado. you’d need a court ordered
injunction to make him stop. and even then…
***
February 27th, 2009 at 9:19 pmWaynebro, joe, perhaps you can answer me this question;
given that b-cup’s M. O. is to profess “open-mindedness” and to appear to really consider what others are saying…
don’t you think he might take into consideration the validity of the now commonplace judgment that he is a concern troll?
Perhaps, if so many are saying the same thing, across many threads, in discussions of many subjects, there might be some truth in it?
I’d certainly consider it if I were him.
February 27th, 2009 at 9:25 pmGrose’s email isn’t a discussion on race. His email referred to race. He sent a racial message he thought was funny. It was ignorant. It was racist. He was right to resign.
His email doesn’t have to be a discussion on race, or a comment on race, to solidify the idea that there are more serious consequences when you communicate about race (an email is communication, a joke is communication, a stereotype is communication).
In my own example, I suggested that because I brought up the issue, I was subjected to charges of racism, compared to a nazi jew exterminators, a redneck and a klansman. Those have nothing to do with Grose’s email. And no one can show me, other than bringing up the subject, which comments I made were racist.
I also offered McCain’s Irish joke to show that other similar type topics, don’t seem to have as high a consequence. There are others (did Armey resign after the sexist comment on Matthews). They don’t have the same consequence.
Because the consequences are high with racial topics. Many people avoid them altogether. Is it that controversial an idea?
You’ve never avoided a racial topic due to the divisive nature of the topic?
February 27th, 2009 at 9:26 pmGuess I’ll pitch my nickel in….
We have become a nation of cowards in many respects.
Race, the environment, poverty, health care, corporate greed/welfare, exploitation of other peoples resources, domestic violence, alcoholism, drug addiction, homelessness…
I need not go on, you get the point.
Cowardice comes from fear, fear comes from ignorance, ignorance comes from the dumbing down of our society, to where the most important virtue now is to sit down, be quiet, and don’t make waves.
Corporate brainwashing has now told us for 50 years to:
“Put yourself in the good hands of Allstate”
“GE will bring good things to life”
“Trust your car to the man who wears the Texaco star”
“Buy life insurance and trust in Social Security for your retirement.”
A great big long Laughing out loud…
So long guys, this is my last hurrah. Back to work full time in the wilderness, if there is a wildfire in your neighborhood, look for the tall skinny white guy in the middle of a crew of brown skinned folks, with the Eyes of Buddha sticker on the back of his helmet.
February 27th, 2009 at 9:29 pmPEACE
ralph. okay. I’m a concern troll.
Now, here’s a hypothetical. What if everything I’ve been saying, I really believe.
Should I dishonestly change some of my positions to avoid the appearance of being a concern troll? Should I only comment on threads that I agree with? Should I pretend to understand and agree with people, when I don’t?
February 27th, 2009 at 9:30 pmThat’s a great post. Have fun, be careful.
Peace.
February 27th, 2009 at 9:32 pmOnce more for the perpetually ignorant.
You are comparing his foul, racist hate mail, which to black people is the equivalent of using the “N” word, with “commenting on race”.
If I call your mother a whore, would you call it me merely communicating about your mom?
You keep trying to paint racist hate speech as “mere communication” and likening it to our “cowardice when discussing race”.
If I call someone the “N” word, I am not “communicating on race”.
Get it?
And if you still don’t, I suggest you come down to SouthEast, and make a few “Watermelon jokes”, and then just tell the folks there you are simply trying to “communicate on race”.
Mr Concern troll.
February 27th, 2009 at 9:34 pmbackup Says:
Grose’s email isn’t a discussion on race. His email referred to race. He sent a racial message he thought was funny. It was ignorant. It was racist. He was right to resign.
His email doesn’t have to be a discussion on race, or a comment on race, to solidify the idea that there are more serious consequences when you communicate about race (an email is communication, a joke is communication, a stereotype is communication).
In my own example, I suggested that because I brought up the issue, I was subjected to charges of racism, compared to a nazi jew exterminators, a redneck and a klansman. Those have nothing to do with Grose’s email. And no one can show me, other than bringing up the subject, which comments I made were racist.
I also offered McCain’s Irish joke to show that other similar type topics, don’t seem to have as high a consequence. There are others (did Armey resign after the sexist comment on Matthews). They don’t have the same consequence.
Because the consequences are high with racial topics. Many people avoid them altogether. Is it that controversial an idea?
You’ve never avoided a racial topic due to the divisive nature of the topic?
*
on the plus side you didn’t write “nation of cowards”
(again). on the negative side i have to ask, are you
channeling steve allen? this is the worst middlebrow
drivel i have ever read in my life! and would please stop
with the myriad, mind bending-ly stupid questions?
you’ve not being socratic, you’re being a pathetic dilettante.
or worse, a quiz show mc who’s gotta take a wicked piss
fast or he’ll die.
***
February 27th, 2009 at 9:37 pmbackup Says:
I’d certainly consider it if I were him.
ralph. okay. I’m a concern troll.
*
victory!
save this and use it every
time the syphilitic little creep
shows his ass again on this site.
*
February 27th, 2009 at 9:40 pmralph. I read you post again.
a couple of points.
when your on a thread here and your in the minority, a lot of people post responses to you, because they disagree. Just due to the numbers, it’s challenging to read the responses and consider all of them adequately.
and. I believe I’ve made attempts to really consider your point of view. But, maybe I’m not trying hard enough or something is getting lost in translation.
I can honestly say, it’s frustrating to believe to see something very clearly and realize that people either don’t have a clue what you’re talking about or think that your simply dishonest.
I will try harder to open my mind.
February 27th, 2009 at 9:41 pmYou haven’t been saying anything other than trying desperately to paint racist hate speech as “communication on race”.
Your entire comments don’t say anything other than that.
Here. Here’s a few examples of your ambiguous nonsense.
See? These comments don’t actually say anything.
Here is some equivalent examples.
You’re awash in a doltish ambiguity that says nothing, means nothing, and strains the very bounds of logic.
Indeed one would have to be incredibly stupid, or incredibly deceptive to type the mindless nonsense and directionless babble you conceal your concern trolling in.
February 27th, 2009 at 9:41 pmbackup Says:
ralph. I read you post again.
a couple of points.
when your on a thread here and your in the minority, a lot of people post responses to you, because they disagree. Just due to the numbers, it’s challenging to read the responses and consider all of them adequately.
and. I believe I’ve made attempts to really consider your point of view. But, maybe I’m not trying hard enough or something is getting lost in translation.
I can honestly say, it’s frustrating to believe to see something very clearly and realize that people either don’t have a clue what you’re talking about or think that your simply dishonest.
I will try harder to open my mind.
*
good, while it’s open drop this in:
ralph. okay. I’m a concern troll.
peace.
*
February 27th, 2009 at 9:44 pmb-cup, if you really believe that the consequences of a public official sending a racist email provides a look at the consequences of “commenting on race” then you’re far, far more stupid than your erudition and ability to express yourself suggests.
Perhaps you’ve got a huge blind spot where this issue is concerned, for some reason.
But the bottom line is this; your obtuse and scattershot arguments on this and other threads don’t reconcile with an intellect capable of reasonably sophisticated use of language that you exhibit.
Something doesn’t add up.
Throw in your frequent use of straw man arguments and your habit of restating others’ arguments in disingenuous ways, and you have a pretty good recipe for a concern troll.
You know I’ve come to this judgment with some difficulty. I supported you more than once when others called you a troll. It’s not like I’m just going along with the crowd on this.
You know what comes to mind? Mark Ratner confronting Damone in Fast Times at Ridgemont High:
I always stick up for you.
Whenever people say, “That Damone, he’s a loudmouth,” and they say that a lot, I always say, “Hey, you just don’t know Damone.”
When they call you an idiot, I say, “Damone’s not an idiot. You just don’t know him.”
Well, you know something, man? Maybe they do know you pretty good.
Maybe I’m just finding out now.
February 27th, 2009 at 9:45 pmWhat minority?
Disagree with what?
You’ve yet to clarify your position on the topic, as I have just shown by your rambling, ambiguous nonsense.
So you’re now saying you are on the Mayors side?
February 27th, 2009 at 9:45 pmWAYNEBRO Says:
backup Says:
Now, here’s a hypothetical. What if everything I’ve been saying, I really believe.
You haven’t been saying anything other than trying desperately to paint racist hate speech as “communication on race”.
Your entire comments don’t say anything other than that.
Here. Here’s a few examples of your ambiguous nonsense.
backup Says:
What I’m saying is this: He comments on race. He forwards a stereotype, because he mistakenly thinks it’s funny. Then he loses his job over it.
If there is jeopardy over losing your job, in regards to a particular subject – it’s practical to avoid it.
backup Says:
The consequences for commenting on race are high. They just are.
Because they are high, people mostly avoid it. When we avoid the conversation, we aren’t addressing the issues.
See? These comments don’t actually say anything.
Here is some equivalent examples.
The sky is blue, it just is. When people look at the sky it is blue.
Water is wet. We all know that. Because water is wet, people get wet when touching it.
You’re awash in a doltish ambiguity that says nothing, means nothing, and strains the very bounds of logic.
Indeed one would have to be incredibly stupid, or incredibly deceptive to type the mindless nonsense and directionless babble you conceal your concern trolling in.
*
wayne,
when backup stops addressing you like his
buddy (or worse, his slightly dense pupil)
it means your arguments are getting to him
and he’d rather not deal with you anymore.
*
congrats on a job well done!
:)
February 27th, 2009 at 9:47 pmralph,
on the one hand i’m very proud of you.
quoting “ridgemont high” to backup was
brilliant. but on the other hand i feel
sorry for you. you are probably going
to get a very cloying sermonette from backup.
:(
February 27th, 2009 at 9:53 pmWaynebro, I think, in b-cup’s world, if you called his mother a whore, you’d be making a comment on feminism. Or the politics of gender. Something like that.
And if you got busted for sexual harrassment, that would undoubtedly have a chilling effect on society’s ability to talk openly about gender equality.
Or something like that.
February 27th, 2009 at 9:55 pmYea but don’t worry Ralph.
If its as ambiguous as his other nonsense, you won’t know what it means anyway.
Or likely care.
February 27th, 2009 at 9:55 pmI grew up in racially mixed neighborhood… and, I be one of them… but, I had to google “watermelon” to find out what the bub was all ’bout. Heck, didn’t know. Now I know it’s not about the delicious fruit… it’s about turning ordinary things into whatever some people want. Hey, an idea, what about strawberries… or kiwis… or planter’s peanuts… must be someone out there ready to rise up hard and start somethin’ ’bout these? Gotta be some group that’s offended by a picture of a kiwi… maybe my own race can start saying that the kiwi represents ancestors or somethin’. Then others can start to mascerbate on this and turn it into a ‘publican or ‘emocrap thingy. C’mon, must be someone out there ready to rag on the kiwi? Any takers? Gotta be someone ready to munch on this.
February 27th, 2009 at 10:00 pmYeah, you and the Mayor of Los Alamitos, apparently.
February 27th, 2009 at 10:04 pmplumeria1000 ,
backup.com,
they’re waiting to help you.
:)
February 27th, 2009 at 10:07 pmtraj, for a few (and i mean a very few)
“the commentaries of backup” have real meaning and value.
plumeria (a city-state located somewhere in the balkans)
is one of those few.
:)
February 27th, 2009 at 10:13 pmWell, we can agree to disagree.
We are a nation of cowards on race. Why?
February 27th, 2009 at 10:19 pmbackup Says:
Well, we can agree to disagree.
We are a nation of cowards on race. Why?
*
ralph. okay. I’m a concern troll.
*
February 27th, 2009 at 10:40 pmTrajan75 IQ Says:
joe:
I was looking forward to seeing J$’s hit piece about Think Progress and was disappointed by it’s absence. Maybe if enough of us contacted him and asked nicely, he might reconsider and post the article.
*
traj,
someone else mentioned that too.
i guess mr. p was just blowing smoke as usual.
btw – guess who just got up out of his coffin again?
?
February 27th, 2009 at 10:42 pmAnd suddenly in a pretty much dead thread, in comes another concern troll (or the same one) to profess either his own monumental stupidty, or his own monumental dishonesty.
No one in America over the age of 30 is confused what that term means. As I have clearly pointed out, its been a racial slur akin to the “N” word since pre Civil War America.
In school we learned about it during the 60’s and 70’s, watching the movie “WATERMELON MAN” and seeing the putrid carictures that dotted the news papers and publications around the country for over a century.
Throughout the 70’s the term was widely used, until it a more racially erudite society began to emerge, and the term was relagted to the class of the “N” word.
Only a complete, uneducated idiot would need to “google” the word to see what it means, which means you’re either a complete uneducated idiot, or a liar.
Please check one of the above.
February 27th, 2009 at 10:47 pmjoe. here’s you:
somebody’s obviously got a little issue.
i’ve been here a few years, but maybe you’re on to something.
good luck and keep your head up.
February 27th, 2009 at 10:47 pmOnce more for the perpeutally dishonest or the perpeutally ignorant.
Disagree on WHAT?
Quit hiding behind your cowardly ambiguity.
What do we disagree on?
February 27th, 2009 at 10:49 pmWayne. I think that we disagree, that people don’t talk about race, because they avoid the subject, because they fear the consequence of looking like a racist.
Why do you think people don’t talk about racial issues?
February 27th, 2009 at 10:54 pmI just got in and am checking back. It seems the concern troll did what his definition is. To totally waste your time. Although maybe you guys were having fun. It’s possible, however it’s tough having fun when your dealing with such a blockhead.
As for Plumeria, what’s up with that post? Is was that supposed to be funny or ironic? It failed in both aspects.
Just so you’ll know, kiwi is a derogatory term for New Zealanders, unless they use it among themselves. For example, if an Aussie uses it, it’s demeaning.
February 27th, 2009 at 10:54 pmCome on slick.
You’ve admitted twice now this evening that you are in disagreement with the commenters on this thread.
What are you in disagreement with?
Just say it.
No ambiguity. No lengthy diatribes. No subtle bullsh$t.
Just state your case in plain, simple language that a dumb guy like me can understand.
What do you disagree with?
February 27th, 2009 at 10:55 pmFirst, that is not something anyone, myself included has even suggested.
This thread is not about talking about race.
It is about racist hate speech, and you know that.
So stow the strawdogs and state what it is we disagree with.
We’ve made our positions clear and no where did anyone state anything about “talking about racism” as thats not what this thread is even about.
So quit lying, quit with straw arguments, quit with the pusslike ambiguity and just state what it is you disagree with.
February 27th, 2009 at 11:00 pmWayne. Okay.
People don’t talk about racial issues because of what happened to Grose.
February 27th, 2009 at 11:02 pmCome on backup.
I know you’re a liar.
You know you’re a liar.
Now we just have to help you articulate it better.
What is it we disagree on?
And don’t give me your ‘talking about race’ crap.
This thread is about a public offical sending out racist hate speech against African Americans and our President, merely for the color of their skin.
February 27th, 2009 at 11:02 pmQuit trying to equate Mayor Grose’s racial slurs with “talking about race”.
Has nothing to do with it.
Now, what do we disagree on?
February 27th, 2009 at 11:03 pmBook’em Waynbro
Sorry, I couldn’t resist. Backup sure it’s geting his kicks today. Too bad he can’t even post what he believes. Maybe that’s because with his moral character he believes in nothing.
February 27th, 2009 at 11:06 pmbackup Says:
Wayne. I think that we disagree, that people don’t talk about race, because they avoid the subject, because they fear the consequence of looking like a racist.
Why do you think people don’t talk about racial issues?
*
there’s something just a little off here.
either someone’s got a hold of the real
backup’s handle and is pretending to be him
or he’s drunk.
***
who do you contact at tp about identity theft?
?
February 27th, 2009 at 11:06 pmbackup Says:
joe. here’s you:
victory!
save this and use it every
time the syphilitic little creep
shows his ass again on this site.
somebody’s obviously got a little issue.
i’ve been here a few years, but maybe you’re on to something.
good luck and keep your head up.
*
i’m voting drunk.
or he got into limbaugh’s
oxycotn stash.
()
February 27th, 2009 at 11:08 pmWAYNEBRO Says:
Come on slick.
You’ve admitted twice now this evening that you are in disagreement with the commenters on this thread.
What are you in disagreement with?
Just say it.
No ambiguity. No lengthy diatribes. No subtle bullsh$t.
Just state your case in plain, simple language that a dumb guy like me can understand.
What do you disagree with?
__________
b-cup’s the penultimate snake oil salesman, WAYNE… good luck.
Harder than HELL to corner that one.
February 27th, 2009 at 11:13 pmAnd when you communicate about race, you place yourself at greater risk of looking like a racist or suffering significant consequences (like Grose), because the issue is so divisive.
Grose is not the only one. Jesse Jackson, Rush Limbaugh. Jimmy the Greek. Michael Richards (Kramer, if you need me to dumb it down).
The topic, more than any other, has a long trail of carcasses.
You will no doubt try to charge that I am defending these people for what they did or said. I am not.
I use them as examples to make a point.
The issue of race is often times toxic. Most people understand that they are capable of either saying the wrong thing or being misinterpreted.
Because of that, they avoid the subject. Because it’s safer to do that.
February 27th, 2009 at 11:14 pmbackup,
how many have you had?
give your keys to your mom
and stay home, ok?
*
February 27th, 2009 at 11:17 pmSure looks like b-cup is laying down a smoke screen to cover himself…
February 27th, 2009 at 11:17 pmI think WAYNEBRO’S right…
IMHO, b-cup’s trying to float a false equivalency here.
It’s really, really hard to call what Grose did “communicating about race” w/out
February 27th, 2009 at 11:20 pmhaving the effort come across as arch and artificial…
backup Says:
Michael Richards (Kramer, if you need me to dumb it down).
___________
Ooooooooo… style points for the gratuitous cheap shot…
February 27th, 2009 at 11:21 pmThe Republic of Stupidity Says:
I think WAYNEBRO’S right…
IMHO, b-cup’s trying to float a false equivalency here.
It’s really, really hard to call what Grose did “communicating about race” w/out
having the effort come across as arch and artificial…
*
tros, it’s some kind of norm crosby
comedy routine. he’s really out of it.
*
February 27th, 2009 at 11:22 pmBackuo,
I’ve got one for you. And it’s true by the way.
Many years ago Dick Gregory (do you know who that is?), toured the Appalachians to speak with poor white people about empowerment. He did this more than once (and I was mightily impressed).
In order to make a point in one of his discussions he said “you poor people aren’t nothing but N***** to rich people”.
Can you figure that out, or did I confuse you some more?
February 27th, 2009 at 11:23 pmjoe cantwell Says:
*
tros, it’s some kind of norm crosby
comedy routine. he’s really out of it.
___________
You might be right. If I’m not mistaken, and I’m usually not, this particular slap fight has been going on for 7 or 8 hrs now.
Looks like b-cup’s desperately trying to get away from something he said and can’t really shake WAYNEBRO… teehee…
February 27th, 2009 at 11:26 pmFox News Rules Says:
i’m voting drunk.
or he got into limbaugh’s
oxycotn stash.
Rush is buried DEEP under your paper thin skin. LOL!
*
no, he’s deep into your mouth.
and you love it!
;0
February 27th, 2009 at 11:28 pmI still don’t think you get the point, my friend.
I’m not arguing that Grose’s slur is ‘talking about race’. I’m saying that because people are aware of the high consequences of the divisive issue of race (by witnessing incidents like Grose’s), they choose to avoid what could be substantive racial discussions, to avoid the possible repercussions of an unintended misstep. It’s easier. Safer.
I’m not saying that I would avoid it. I’m courageous. ; )
February 27th, 2009 at 11:29 pmjoe cantwell Says:
*
no, he’s deep into your mouth.
and you love it!
;0
___________
Heh… that certainly ’splains why it’s so hard to understand what he’s saying, dunnit?
February 27th, 2009 at 11:29 pmRich. Great story. What’s the point?
February 27th, 2009 at 11:30 pmbackup Says:
Quit trying to equate Mayor Grose’s racial slurs with “talking about race”.
Has nothing to do with it.
Now, what do we disagree on?
I still don’t think you get the point, my friend.
I’m not arguing that Grose’s slur is ‘talking about race’. I’m saying that because people are aware of the high consequences of the divisive issue of race (by witnessing incidents like Grose’s), they choose to avoid what could be substantive racial discussions, to avoid the possible repercussions of an unintended misstep. It’s easier. Safer.
I’m not saying that I would avoid it. I’m courageous. ; )
*
not only that,
you also look very cute
in a tutu.
*
yes you do!
**
February 27th, 2009 at 11:33 pmThank you for admitting that your entire purpose has been to “concern troll” Mayor Grose’s racial slurs with “communicating about race”.
Thank you for proving you are nothing more than a “concern troll”.
Equating racial slurs with “communicating about race” is the work of the concern troll, and thus the jury is in.
You’ve just articuluated this in no uncertain terms.
You are publicly equating Mayor Grose’s hateful, racial slurs, with “communicating about race”.
Which proves your true intention. To diminish the offense. Muddy the waters. Confuse and distort. And generally defend Mayor Grose, and the use of racial slurs by public officials to mock black people, merely for the color of their skin.
February 27th, 2009 at 11:34 pmBackup,
I’ll tell you the point when you once and for all tell us yours.
February 27th, 2009 at 11:36 pmWaynebro. you just quit on that last one.
February 27th, 2009 at 11:37 pmb-cup’s just trying to save face from the looks of it…
February 27th, 2009 at 11:39 pmTrajan75 IQ Says:
correction: motley
*
clarification:
motley crüe = good
motley crew = bad.
*
now back to our regular programming.
:)
February 27th, 2009 at 11:39 pmNo. I hit on that last one.
You stated in no uncertain terms;
So no one, not even with your deft skills of apathetic ambiguity, could possibly misconstrue that one.
You said it all in one paragraph. You probably should have stuck to long winded non directional blather to conceal your true meanings.
Don’t blame me because you’re too stupid to know that when you find yourself in a hole, its time to stop digging.
February 27th, 2009 at 11:40 pmReally? When did that happen?
That was pretty much your whole basis for arguing as you did.
For instance:
February 27th, 2009 at 11:44 pm
ralph the wonder llama Says:
That was pretty much your whole basis for arguing as you did.
For instance:
at 12:38 pm, backup Says:
No. I’m not saying that he should not resign.
What I’m saying is this: He comments on race. He forwards a stereotype, because he mistakenly thinks it’s funny. Then he loses his job over it.
______________
Ya gotta hand to b-cup, boys… he’s the Sal Maglie of trolling…
Talk about throwing a great screwgie!!!
February 27th, 2009 at 11:47 pmTRoS, this has been a virtuoso performance of concern trolling today from b-cup.
I don’t think he’s trying to save face. I think he’s going for some sort of personal best. It’s like he’s trying to set the course record or something.
And he doesn’t even look tired!
February 27th, 2009 at 11:47 pmWayne. I don’t see it.
What can’t I misconstrue?
If you are thinking that I’m defending Grose – you’re wrong. Look at it again.
February 27th, 2009 at 11:48 pmSee Backup?
You’re aptly named.
Because you keep trying to “back up”, but your printed words just get in the way.
February 27th, 2009 at 11:48 pm“The Sal Maglie of concern trolling”?
Damn, TRoS, that is where it’s AT!
Should we now call b-cup “The Barber”?
February 27th, 2009 at 11:49 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
TRoS, this has been a virtuoso performance of concern trolling today from b-cup.
__________
I hafta say… I am impressed. I tried reading the thread back from the start, but the room started to spin, the lights started to flicker…
This one is indeed a b-cup classic!!!
And here come our judges…
Lookit those scores! 9.7 9.6 9.7 9.8
***Thunderous applause for b-cup…***
February 27th, 2009 at 11:50 pmWhy is it all racists say they don’t mean to hurt feelings? They never mean to offend. But they do. Not only blacks but most whites. I had hoped that we would be past all of this by now. I had hoped that the long overdue discussions on race would have taken place. But I will never see it before I die waiting. The racism is still here. And it is in the media as well as with our elected politicians.
I bet most of these racists have a David Duke picture on their walls. Resign sure he should. But he should also be tarred and feathered. But at least people know what he is.
February 27th, 2009 at 11:50 pmYou’re not outwardly defending him. That’s not what “backup concern trolls” do.
They don’t defend outwardly.
As I’ve said to you a dozen times now, your goal is to blur the lines. Lesson the offense. Not really defend. Certainly not condemn.
Instead you immerse yourself in ambiguity.
Ambiguity is your sheild.
See slick, when you’re clear about our meanings, you don’t have to say “look at it again”.
By the 40th comment or so, your meanings either clear, or its not.
February 27th, 2009 at 11:52 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
“The Sal Maglie of concern trolling”?
Damn, TRoS, that is where it’s AT!
Should we now call b-cup “The Barber”?
__________
Didn’t they call him “The Barber” because he clipped the corners sooooo nicely?
And didn’t he strike out sum’pin like 6 straight in an All-Star game in the 30’s?
Ruth, Gehrig, Gehringer, Foxx… sum’pin like that?
February 27th, 2009 at 11:53 pmHe comments on race.
If we are going to split hairs, here’s a definition of comment:
I didn’t say it was an enlightened comment.
Here’s a definition of stereotype:
What am I missing there?
February 27th, 2009 at 11:53 pmWAYNEBRO Says:
As I’ve said to you a dozen times now, your goal is to blur the lines. Lesson the offense. Not really defend. Certainly not condemn.
__________
Gee… ya think?
Ya gotta admit… he’s GOOD.
That sincere, patient tone…
The one little tear that wells up and trickles down his cheek at just the right moment…
The ever-so-sincere crack in his voice…
February 27th, 2009 at 11:55 pmHis funny little smile…
February 27th, 2009 at 11:56 pmTrajan75 IQ Says:
But the Canadian Judge only gave him 0.1
___________
Hey… we ALL know about them Canucks…
February 27th, 2009 at 11:56 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
Should we now call b-cup “The Barber”?
_____________
Works for me…
February 27th, 2009 at 11:57 pmI don’t think you should be denied the information, only because you lack swift comprehension.
I’m willing to work with you.
February 27th, 2009 at 11:58 pmCognizance?
February 27th, 2009 at 11:59 pmOkay. I’m starting to sense I’m not making any headway here. I’ll turn in for tonight and try again tomorrow.
Good crowd. See ya.
February 28th, 2009 at 12:02 amSee homer, by your logic, I could classify my calling your mom a whore, merely my “communicating on prostitution”.
So, your moms a whore.
But don’t get me wrong mind you.
I’m just communicating about prostitution.
February 28th, 2009 at 12:02 amNot a thing, Slick. Not a thing.
That’s my guess, anyway.
February 28th, 2009 at 12:03 am“The way things are today, you gotta laugh every now and then. I wanna see the coloring contests.” Grose has since apologized, saying the picture was never meant to offend.
February 28th, 2009 at 12:03 amThanks Grose…I’m laughing now..at you.
WAYNEBRO Says:
His funny little smile…
__________
The way you wear your hat… The way you sip your tea
February 28th, 2009 at 12:04 amThe memory of all that… No they cant take that away from me
Theeeeeeyyyy can’t take that away from meeeeee…
Ya mean, because everybody’s on to your particular brand of concern trolling? Yeah, i could see where that might slow things down a bit for ya.
You’re nothing if not persistent. It’s part of your greatness as a concern troll.
February 28th, 2009 at 12:04 ambackup Says:
I don’t think you should be denied the information, only because you lack swift comprehension.
____________
Nice work, WAYNEBRO… you got under his skin, as evinced by the petty insult…
Nice work…
February 28th, 2009 at 12:05 amAnd when you go down to black neighborhood in DC next time, be sure to tell some good watermelon jokes, mr concern troll.
And when they are beating you senseless, just remind them you’re just “commenting on racism”.
:D
Let us know how that works out for you.
February 28th, 2009 at 12:07 amYeah, Waynebro EARNED that kill. Worked his ass off for it.
(ralph stands and cheers. Waynebro comes by, ralph offers a terrorist fist jab)
February 28th, 2009 at 12:07 amb-cup or captainmantastic,
whichever she feels like,
Might be a subtle racist,
DEFINITELY a hardcore fcukwit:
backup Says:
http://money.cnn.com/ 2008/ 09/ 17/ news/ economy/ colvin_recession.fortune/ index.htm
September 17th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
In short, her link is to a column about how the “recession” (hell, think depression now) won’t be as bad as everything thinks…
Such a piece of ignorant shit you are, b-cup.
February 28th, 2009 at 12:08 amralph the wonder llama Says:
Yeah, Waynebro EARNED that kill. Worked his ass off for it.
(ralph stands and cheers. Waynebro comes by, ralph offers a terrorist fist jab)
_____________
TRoS also stands and applauds…
February 28th, 2009 at 12:11 amDNFP Says:
Such a piece of ignorant shit you are, b-cup.
____________
Oooooooo… is Yoda in the house?
February 28th, 2009 at 12:12 amTros, Ralh, Waynebro,
That was something else. He was there this morning when I checked in. Later at diner time, and finally at the end of the day.
Truely an amazing feat of continual posting without making a point.
I’m glad you all were dealing with him tonight. It was fun to follow but too much energy to engage such a blockhead.
February 28th, 2009 at 12:12 ambackup Says:
Okay. I’m starting to sense I’m not making any headway here. I’ll turn in for tonight and try again tomorrow.
Good crowd. See ya.
*
the orderlies lead him away…
*
February 28th, 2009 at 12:12 amBut we do agree on one thing mr Concern troll.
We agree that racial issues are heated issues, and evoke serious emotion.
So serious in fact that they deserve more than some mealy mouthed worm trying to whitewash racial slurs as “commenting on racism”.
Stuff like that will get your ass kicked were you man enough to try it in person in the company of the race you are demeaning. Of course that ass kicking might leave a bigger impression on you than the one you recieved here tonight.
From all of us.
February 28th, 2009 at 12:12 amThanks, I’m humbled. But this was a community effort and everyone cut themselves a slice of that booty.
As it should be.
February 28th, 2009 at 12:15 amThat b-cup…
He’s just not a good… concern troll…
He’s a GREAT concern troll…
The concern troll’s concern troll…
February 28th, 2009 at 12:16 amOooooooo… is Yoda in the house?
I was channeling Frank Oz, was the accent close?
February 28th, 2009 at 12:20 amAs subtle as a brick thrown through a window.
Subtle from her perspective.
February 28th, 2009 at 12:20 amDNFP Says:
I was channeling Frank Oz, was the accent close?
________
Purty durn good…
I’m outta here!
TRoS hi-fives everyone on his way to the door!
February 28th, 2009 at 12:21 amI did not whitewash any racial slur or ever condone Grose’s email. I agreed with his decision to resign. It’s all there in the thread, if you had the capacity to consider the comments with an open mind. You do not.
But, I did try to comment on why people avoid talking about race.
Holder may wonder why we a nation of cowards when it comes to discussing race.
I think you just provided him the answer.
February 28th, 2009 at 8:44 amWe get it captain, you think a discussion on race goes like this:
Hey all you n’s line up and lets talk about race.
February 28th, 2009 at 9:05 amIf you can’t stand the heat get out of the kitchen!
February 28th, 2009 at 9:14 amIs this any worse than calling Bush “Hitler”? Get over it, they always pic on the pres. no matter if you are bi-racial or white.
Fred. come on. show me what I said, that makes you feel comfortable in an assertion like that.
February 28th, 2009 at 10:37 amThis email was ignorant. It was very offensive in an issue that is justifiably divisive. Grose was right to resign.
That’s it.
On a separate issue, Holder wants a national discussion on race. We are cowards in regards to issues of race.
I believe, that one of the reasons (probably the main reason) that we avoid talking about race is that it is so divisive. Justifiably divisive when you consider slavery and hundreds of years of racial discrimination.
I also believe that because people are aware of the high social consequences for being offensive about race, they have a tendency to avoid the subject of race altogether.
The problem is this: How do we get people to engage in racial discussions, if they fear the high consequences of the risk of being perceived as offensive.
If you don’t agree. I understand. But, then, what is the reason we are cowardly on race?
February 28th, 2009 at 10:51 amhitler is not a race, you need to get out more. It is much worse, actually, as you can see(I mean the guy resigned), I think it is actually illegal……
February 28th, 2009 at 10:52 amThen don’t be stupid. If you can discuss religion without cursing you will be taken seriously, if you curse god, how much discussion do you think will take place.
I repeat, don’t be stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can’t say it enough……don’t be stupid.
February 28th, 2009 at 10:58 amGood Morning Fred,
If you go back a few posts you’ll find Backup is a “concern troll.” I didn’t know what that was until last night – and he’s pretty good at it.
Seems like he’s been joined by Fox News Rules (God what a name).
Anyhow, beware. Don’t waste your time.
February 28th, 2009 at 11:15 amFred, Rich H is absolutely right.
B-cup has been spinning his wheels for almost 24 hours, trying to convince anyone who will listen that a racist email is a “comment on race”.
Well, actually, I suspect he’s not trying to convince anyone of anything — if he were, he’d have come up with better arguments 23 hours ago. Nope, all he’s doing is trying to waste the time of whoever wanders by.
And, as Rich says — he’s pretty good at it.
BTW, “Faux News Rules” is the latest incarnation of the troll who lately was known as Mr. Philby. Jane pulled a Valerie Plame on him and blew his cover.
February 28th, 2009 at 11:27 amI know Rich, I don’t know why I keep letting him bait me. I have known about backup since he was captain mantastic. I was calling him a troll then but others were defending him because he used plausible fallacy to keep the discussion alive and centered on him. I actually was called down for being unreasonable and so I backed off. Recently, captain has exposed his dark underbelly for all to see.
February 28th, 2009 at 11:29 amInstead of worrying in such an angst-ridden way about those who are frightened they’ll be perceived as racists for such clearly non-racial “comments” as suggesting that the first black President of the U.S. is a watermelon-munching stereotype, perhaps you might be better off directing your efforts to getting conservatives to figure out whether their racial views are likely to win themselves many future elections. Does the Southern Strategy still work? If it doesn’t, perhaps you ought to work on the hearts and minds of those who have been embracing and employing it, and when that work there is done, perhaps an open discussion on race won’t seem quite so terrifying to you and yours.
February 28th, 2009 at 11:30 amFred,
After witnessing the debacle that is Backup, I was a little concerned he might try to lure someone else in.
Honestly, it’s not worth the time.
I’m off to work. Have a good day guys.
February 28th, 2009 at 11:33 am(ralph reluctantly raises hand)
Guilty as charged.
February 28th, 2009 at 11:36 amRalph, he put up a good front for a long time. Also remember and continue to forgive….I was very angry when I first arrived here. We all make mistakes and mine was much worse than yours of tolerance. I thought I could feel better if I could vent my anger. Many good people here allowed me to make my mistakes and learn from them. I count you among those good people and have a high regard for your thoughts.
February 28th, 2009 at 11:49 amThanks, Fred. I’m always glad to see you show up on a thread. I know we’ll get sound, forceful commentary with some intelligence. I’ve really appreciated your evolution as a commenter.
February 28th, 2009 at 11:57 amFred. That’s great advice. But, it doesn’t answer the question why people don’t talk about race.
Holder wants people to talk about race. I agree. It’s the discussion we are having now.
Holder is right that we need more of a discussion of race.
The question is why we haven’t been talking about it up until now?
I think it’s because people are afraid of being labeled racist.
If that’s wrong, what else could it be?
To pretend there is no reason, doesn’t address Holder’s charge.
And to advise people just ‘don’t be stupid’, may not be enough.
February 28th, 2009 at 12:17 pmFred. you have gotten a lot more patient. it’s good.
February 28th, 2009 at 12:22 pmThis is thier problem, not ours. We will now be having the discussions. They can stay home and pout our they can try to change which I doubt is an option.
So we will have our discussion and we will punish them just as this man has been punished. It’s all you guys seem to understand.
Your plausible fallacy, that we have to engage them, is a joke. They have to come as adults and open their minds. You seem about as capable as they are which is not at all.
So, you continue to fiddle while rome burns. I expect nothing less from you.
February 28th, 2009 at 12:26 pmfor the record.
i knew who and what he was from the get-go.
and apparently, as long as there are fellow trolls
such as fox news rules here to delight he’ll be
back. but more importantly he likes playing the pathetic victim. today (all day),
despite his best efforts backup came a cropper. but as long as he
believes we are “bleeding heart liberals” he knows that his
“courageous victim” strategy can catch one or maybe even two fish in
his troll net. for a concern troll like backup that’s a good day’s catch.
***
be on guard.
he’ll be backup.
***
February 28th, 2009 at 12:30 pmFred. This is a half a conversation. Grose deserves to lose his job. But, you seem to be content to persecute without regard to the root cause of the problem.
A similar example might be our penal system. Your position seems similar to looking at our crime problems and saying: “We’ll continue to put them in jail, that’s all they seem to understand.”
Maybe a more productive way to look at our crime problems is not just to punish the criminals, but to spend some time considering the root causes of the crimes.
Maybe a more productive way to look at our racial problems is not just to punish the offenders (which is happening), but to spend some time considering the root causes of the problem.
Holder sees part of the solution as a broader discussion on race. I agree. To facilitate that conversation, we should consider why people aren’t willing to talk.
I’ve given you my take, what’s yours?
February 28th, 2009 at 12:36 pmLike the Southern Strategy?
February 28th, 2009 at 12:47 pmSo now criminals shouldn’t be put in jail? Jailing is a part of the rehab. Republicans are the ones responsible for non-violent stuffing of the jails to support a free enterprise system of jails and no rehab is occurring. real criminals belong in jail and should not be pushed out early to make room for a pot smoker.
When racists are punished it is supposed to be a clue that they are in the wrong…..
I’m done with ya cap.
February 28th, 2009 at 12:49 pmSure you did. And you still are. You “agreed with his decision to resign” is not even close to condemning his foul, ugly, hateful racial slur.
Its not even close.
What it is is a mealy mouthed ambiguous at best statement.
Here’ Allow me to educate you since you didn’t learn anything last night.
—
.
February 28th, 2009 at 12:59 pmTrollspotter. I agree with what you saying. And see it as a legitimate part, but only half of the conversation. Here’s me from 8 months ago:
We are on the same page, when it comes to conservatives and race.
My point here is different. Why don’t people feel comfortable talking about race?
What’s your take?
February 28th, 2009 at 1:00 pmThe Concern Troll says:
And you seem to be content with making excuses for him.
The “root of the problem”?
We are “persecuting him”?
Oh, poor Mister Grose.
He makes foul ugly racial slurs, and you accuse US of “PERSECUTING” him.
You might think you’re slick, slick, but you’re not.
You’re just a stupid, ignorant racist scumbag too ashamed to admit what he is.
February 28th, 2009 at 1:03 pmDo you guys remember a certain troll we had a little while ago who used to log in using outlandish “progressive” sounding names, and he’d pop up on a thread with a simple-minded post intended to sound like a brain-addled progressive might? Stuff like “We must remove all enemies of Progress”?
He’d always capitalize “Progress” and pretend that it was some concrete goal we were seeking to achieve.
B-cup is starting to sound vaguely like that. Not the same simple-mindedness, but a similar hollow sound to his posts. A similar tone-deafness to the way real people discuss issues is creeping into b-cup’s set list. don’t you think?
February 28th, 2009 at 1:04 pmSee, to non racists, there is no “BUT” there.
February 28th, 2009 at 1:05 pmObserve how the concern troll tries to paint himself on “our side”, (even after denying he was trying to do that last night), and then tries once more to try to equate what Grose did to “talking about race”.
No on in here is afraid of talking about race. That’s why you’re in a thread that is talking about race.
So your straw argument falls flat in that respect, not to mention your foul, ugly attempts to paint what Grose did to “talking about race”.
February 28th, 2009 at 1:09 pmHere’s how it works. Grose deserves to lose his job. He’s ignorant and his email was racist.
But, that’s not the point I’m making. The point I’m making is that people avoid talking about race, because the consequences are high, if what they say is deemed offensive.
Because people aren’t confident that they won’t be offensive, they avoid the topic altogether.
The ‘But’ is to raise the objection that we are not addressing the reason for the cowardice.
February 28th, 2009 at 1:14 pmOnce more the racist concern troll tries to equate what Grose did, with “talking about race”.
Talking about race is talking about race.
Sending an email to a black lady telling her that now that a black President is in office he will replace Easter Eggs with WATERMELONS, is not.
Only a racist would try to equate the two.
February 28th, 2009 at 1:19 pmI believe this as much today as when I posted it 8 months ago:
What part of that sounds stupid, ignorant or racist to you?
February 28th, 2009 at 1:21 pmThe only cowardice here is you digging your hole deeper rather than admitting what chickensh$t little troll you are.
To non racists, there is no “BUT” after the statement that the man should have lost his job.
You’re trying to make excuses for him, and paint his words as a “discussion on race”.
It was not.
It was a SLUR.
Not a discussion.
February 28th, 2009 at 1:23 pmI could give a rats ass what you said 8 months ago.
We’re looking at what you said 8 hours ago.
And 8 minutes ago.
And it shows you as a cowardly, racist pig, to afraid to come out like the rest of your brood and just say your dirties.
Hint: When you’ve got to dig back 8 months (funny you had that comment at your disposal) to find something to try and qualify your current comments, then you’ve already lost.
February 28th, 2009 at 1:26 pmWaynebro. you still miss the point.
I don’t excuse Grose. I don’t lament his persecution.
That half of the equation is working fine.
The point I’ve been making is this: Because people understand the consequences for missteps in dealing with race, they avoid racial conversations.
Conversations that Holder and I agree are necessary.
Why don’t we have those conversations? I offered up the idea that people are afraid to breech the subject because of the high consequences of missteps in the legitimately divisive issue.
I could be wrong. What’s your take?
February 28th, 2009 at 1:26 pmbackup, we’re in agreement that the Republican party seems to attract racists. No argument there. Not that you have to be a Republican to be a racist these days, but one has to accept that the Southern Strategy has resulted in a correlation.
But on this point: My take is that racists don’t like openly talking about race because they are gradually coming to realize that the majority of Americans are no long buying the tripe they’ve been pushing. They’re uncomfortable exposing themselves as racists because racism is increasingly unacceptable.
From what I’ve seen, people who are not inherently racist seem to have a much easier time talking about race.
And again, this mayor was not “talking about race” as you put it. He was hurling a racial epithet at our President. There is a difference, no?
February 28th, 2009 at 1:27 pmyou don’t know how to google?
February 28th, 2009 at 1:29 pmNo you’re still missing the point nimrod.
You keep trying to equate what Grose did, to a “discussion on race”.
So I’ll try to pound it into your thick skull, until you get it.
This has nothing to do with “discussing race”.
It was a RACIAL SLUR, and RACIAL SLURS are not discussing race.
Saying that people are “afraid of discussing race” because someone got fired for racial slurs, is like saying some “people are afraid of talking about Jews because Hitler gassed 6 million of them“.
February 28th, 2009 at 1:32 pmHe’s been trying to do that since yesterday.
For 2 straight days now he’s been trying to merge what Grose did, i.e. mocking black Americans by emailing them telling them the President because he is black, would use WATERMELONS instead of Easter Eggs, with “discussing race”.
As a concern troll, his goal is to “backup” the regular trolls, by softening the offense and muddying the issue.
February 28th, 2009 at 1:35 pmI agree with this. Even though I may be wrong about this or not communicating it well, I feel confident in my position; because I believe I am not racist.
And I will concede that I have not communicated well, because everyone here is at odds with me and my characterization of Grose ‘talking about race’.
He wasn’t talking about race, like it was a discussion. He emailed a racist, stereotypical joke. It was a communication involving race, but not a discussion about race.
I was not trying to justify Grose. He was wrong. I was trying to use Grose as an example of how high the consequences can be when you are dealing with matters of race.
And if others see Grose and his being compelled to resign, it reinforces their impression that the consequences can be high when bringing up issues of race.
Even if they realize that Grose was obviously racist and even if they should be more confident in their own intentions and ability to communicate; because the consequences are high, they avoid the conversation.
But, I’ve thought about it. Judging by the reaction here, I have done a poor job of communicating that.
February 28th, 2009 at 1:38 pmWaynebro, as much as I admire your fortitude, you gotta know that you can pound and pound and pound, but nothing is going to help b-cup “get it”.
As Sinclair Lewis once said, “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!” Now, I don’t know if b-cup has a salary riding on his performance here, but he’s certainly got a vested interest in not understanding what so many of us have tried to explain to him. That much is clear.
February 28th, 2009 at 1:40 pmObserve. The anatomy of a concern trolls work at taking a foul, ugly racial slur, and reduce it to a “misstep”.
See folks?
:D
Grose didn’t use a foul, ugly racial slur that he emailed to black Americans, insulting and humiliating them.
No.
All he did was “misstep“.
Whats a little misstep among friends, right?
:D
“oops”
February 28th, 2009 at 1:41 pmFebruary 28th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
Oh I know.
So does he.
I just hate racists, so I feel like pounding.
Bam Bam.
February 28th, 2009 at 1:44 pmBut he wasn’t “dealing with matters of race”.
He wasn’t “mis-stepping”
He was sending bigoted, hateful racial slurs.
Some day you’ll be old enough to know the difference.
February 28th, 2009 at 1:48 pmProblem with that sentence.
Grose wasn’t “bringing up issues of race”.
February 28th, 2009 at 1:49 pmnow he’s clinging to holder.
might be losing his grip on “cowardice”.
but he will still keep coming back.
this is classic ocd.
and equally classic concerning trolling.
i hope some one is copying backup’s
comments down. it belongs in a masters
thesis or a dissertation. priceless stuff
on symptoms and traits.
**
February 28th, 2009 at 1:51 pmWell, Waynebro, you’re doing a hell of a job at pounding, and I can understand the purgative value of pounding away, so have at it.
February 28th, 2009 at 1:52 pmThanks.
I’ll try to keep it down.
February 28th, 2009 at 1:53 pmProblem with that sentence.
Grose wasn’t “communicating” on race.
Grose wasn’t having a “conversation” on race.
And your persistent attempts to convince people that he was, exposes yourself as a racist concern troll.
February 28th, 2009 at 1:58 pmNope.
You’ve “communicated” your intentions quite clearly I would say.
You’ve communicated to us, that to you, “communication” equals mocking black people by saying the black President will replace Easter Eggs with WATERMELONS.
So your “communications” are quite clear.
February 28th, 2009 at 2:01 pmI see your still having fun with Backup. To make for easier/light reading, I just skip what he has to say (for it has no value) and go directly to your responses.
February 28th, 2009 at 2:03 pmIt’s nicer that way. Really, life is too short to deal with aholes.
backup,
haven’t seen you at the
Santorum At CPAC: ‘Absolutely We Hope That’ Obama Fails,
‘I Believe His Policies Will Fail’ post.
how well i remember how you tried to pass this
poison apple off as a real “free speech” issue at the
Limbaugh Responds To Sanford: The ‘Hell We Don’t’ Want Obama To Fail! Just Need ‘The Guts’ To Say So post.
here was one of your classic troll droppings:
I’ll try this: There is an implication that Limbaugh is unpatriotic when he wishes Obama to fail.
Taken in context, Limbaugh is saying that he disagrees with Obama’s ideology and hopes that Obama fails in his attempts to lead the country in that direction. Which Limbaugh thinks would be to the detriment of the country.
You can disagree with Limbaugh’s assessment, but him making it is no less patriotic than someone who opposed the war and wasn’t afraid to say so.
BTW, ralph. I know you will try to say I’m moving the goals posts, because I’ve tried to explain it a different way. If I’m moving the goal posts, it’s only in an attempt that you might see them better.
so why are you dodging the issue now backup?
i know rick santorum isn’t limbaugh it’s still an important topic, isn’t it?
you haven’t become a “coward” have you?
?
February 28th, 2009 at 2:10 pmI’m new here, but from what I’ve seen of backup’s recent comments, he does seem to fit a “concern troll” pattern. At the very least, I don’t see what it is he’s trying to accomplish outside of concern trolling.
The exchanges are interesting, though, as backup is certainly many cuts above a Mr. Philby or JK, who clearly just want to vent their frustration in the hopes liberals might get upset. Conversations with backup are more elevated than that, but I can’t escape the feeling that he isn’t so much interested in debating honestly as he is in giving the appearance of such. (Sorry, backup.)
February 28th, 2009 at 2:11 pmTrajan75 IQ Says:
joe cantwell says:
i hope some one is copying backup’s
comments down.
I am way ahead of you Joe, the end of Backup is imminent and I wanted to be sure to have a copy of his meltdown before his posts are purged from the system.
*
aces, dr. traj!
:)
February 28th, 2009 at 2:11 pmGood question, joe cantwell, if you were addressing someone who had intellectual integrity.
I know b-cup pretends to have intellectual integrity, but that’s really not the same thing, is it?
Could it be that the avalanche of wingnuts proudly declaring their hope for the failure of the President is burying b-cup’s ertswhile defense of Limbaugh?
February 28th, 2009 at 2:14 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
Good question, joe cantwell, if you were addressing someone who had intellectual integrity.
I know b-cup pretends to have intellectual integrity, but that’s really not the same thing, is it?
Could it be that the avalanche of wingnuts proudly declaring their hope for the failure of the President is burying b-cup’s ertswhile defense of Limbaugh?
*
ralph, i know that backup’s i.i. (intellectual integrity)
is as soft as sponge cake. i just wanted to know why
he’s busy chasing mice around in his brain and clutching at
straws here when he could be swimming in new waters
at the santorum post.
***
his answer might prove to be
humorous if not enlightening.
:)
February 28th, 2009 at 2:30 pmWaynebro. Here’s the definition of misstep I’m using:
An instance of wrong or improper conduct; a blunder.
Is that not what Grose is guilty of? Improper conduct. A blunder.
What would you call it?
February 28th, 2009 at 2:34 pmYea, that whole “elevated discussion” and intellectual integrity thing seems to lose its glitz after the 3rd hundred comment or so.
Then all you’ve got left is a neocon concern troll trying to sound erudite while diminishing racism and racial slurs mere “discussions on race”, or a “misstep”.
February 28th, 2009 at 2:36 pmRacial slurs.
February 28th, 2009 at 2:38 pmTrollspotter. That’s okay.
Just out of curiosity. If you believe that we are a nation of cowards on race discussions, what do you believe the reason for the cowardice is?
February 28th, 2009 at 2:38 pmAnd whats more important in that question, is what I wouldn’t call it.
I wouldn’t reduce racism and racial slurs to the level of a “misstep”, or a “blunder”, as you have done here.
Nor would I reduce them to a “discussion on race”, which they are not.
February 28th, 2009 at 2:39 pmWaynebro. A misstep is a blunder, my friend.
I’m working with you.
February 28th, 2009 at 2:40 pmHere’s the definition for blunder:
I believe Grose made a pretty serious mistake. I believe it was ignorant.
Wouldn’t you agree?
February 28th, 2009 at 2:41 pmNo, you are trying to work me, and as for my friend, I am not friends with racists or liars, and you sir are both.
And pigs like you who try to reduce racist hate speech to a “blunder” are the worst of the lot.
Because unlike the racists brave enough to spout their hate speech, you sir are a coward, hiding behind a wall of ambiguity.
February 28th, 2009 at 2:42 pmbackup Says:
Waynebro. A misstep is a blunder, my friend.
I’m working with you.
*
forced teaming.
a backup favorite.
•••
February 28th, 2009 at 2:44 pmA. That’s putting it mildly at best, which is just more of your wall of ambiguity.
B. You won’t get away with trying to backtrack yourself, not that that’s much of a backtrack. More of a diluting at best.
Here troll.
Here’s your original comments, trying to claim he was “COMMENTING ON RACE”.
Lest we forget.
February 28th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
See liar, you can spend days in here with me if you like, trying to backtrack, white wash, dilute or obfuscate but your words will follow you and expose you for what you are.
February 28th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
Another analogy for b-cup:
With his faux-reasonable facade and his generally respectful demeanor, b-cup presents the image of an appealing partner in dialogue.
In this way he is like those “sink three baskets and win a stuffed animal” games at the carnival. It looks easy enough — the basket is not too far away, the ball is smaller than regulation, anyone with some decent skill will say, “oh, I can make that”. But he doesn’t see that the rim is smaller than regulation, too — in fact, just barely large enough for the ball to slip through if perfectly launched. It’s also a little higher than regulation, which throws off the shooter’s eye.
In short, a good ballplayer winds up looking foolish as shot after shot that would grab nothing but net on a normal court, clangs off the rim and lands softly in the fabric beneath.
February 28th, 2009 at 2:52 pmWaynebro. show me where I strayed.
The guy. Grose. That’s easy.
comments. here’s a definition from comments:
It was an email that forwarded a stereotype. Here’s the definition of stereotype:
So, he expresses an opinion, in the form of a stereotype, in an email.
He comments.
On race. That’s easy. the watermelon depiction is a common racial stereotype.
And loses. defined:
I feel confident that Grose has failed to keep his job.
So, The guy comments on race and he loses his job.
Waynebro. Besides your gut instinct, what about that statement doesn’t make sense to you?
February 28th, 2009 at 3:07 pmProblem?
He wasn’t “commenting on race“.
Any questions?
February 28th, 2009 at 3:10 pmWaynebro. If you look at my post before yours, it’s a descent defense of the statement.
But, because I am such a giver, I’ll concede the point. By reposting this from around #412:
Can we at least agree on that?
February 28th, 2009 at 3:18 pmAnd of course there’s nonsense statements like this, that don’t mean anything, but are just filler designed to bury your nonsense in more nonsense.
That statement doesn’t mean anything.
This is a thread about a racist losing his job as mayor.
So saying “I feel confident that Grose has failed to keep his job.” is not saying anything at all.
We know he failed to keep his job. Its plastered across the top of the thread. Hell, its the TITLE of the thread, lol.
So you saying it is saying nothing. NOTHING.
NO THING.
Nothing.
Here. A few comparisons for your thick skull to ponder while you dream up your next obfuscation.
Some statements equivalent to that one.
February 28th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
ralph. you know I would give you the big stuffed Panda anyway.
February 28th, 2009 at 3:21 pm—
February 28th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
backup Says:
He wasn’t “commenting on race“.
Waynebro. If you look at my post before yours, it’s a descent defense of the statement.
But, because I am such a giver, I’ll concede the point. By reposting this from around #412:
He wasn’t talking about race, like it was a discussion. He emailed a racist, stereotypical joke. It was a communication involving race, but not a discussion about race.
I was not trying to justify Grose. He was wrong. I was trying to use Grose as an example of how high the consequences can be when you are dealing with matters of race.
Can we at least agree on that?
*
spell check.
*
backup, are you going to start
having your mail delivered here?
***
you’re going into your second day at this post.
are you eating meals, have you
taken a shower and shaved?
***
are you on goof balls?
*
February 28th, 2009 at 3:33 pm:|
February 28th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
Waynebro. I only resorted to the definitions in the off chance that your preconceived notions about race inhibit you from being objective.
You went on and on about my statement:
When you actually use the real definitions of the words, and not your meaning that fits your worldview, the statement is accurate.
You also feel pretty confident claiming I’m racist. Without any proof or examples, but apparently, based on the same vibe that fits your same worldview.
Unless you can be more objective than that, I will concede it’s going to be an uphill battle trying to get my point across.
Please find me an example that validates your claims that I am racist. It’s a pretty strong charge. You should back it up.
February 28th, 2009 at 3:36 pmFebruary 28th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
I’ve got a few more hours. I’ve got to work tomorrow. I just hate the idea of leaving without this all getting resolved.
February 28th, 2009 at 3:39 pm:|
Hitler deals with the Jewish problem and he loses his life.
That statements “accurate” too.
February 28th, 2009 at 3:40 pmWaynebro. Obviously the context is important. What’s the number of the post?
I imagine that whatever we were talking about at the time, I agreed.
We still probably agree on a lot.
Grose is ignorant. He is right to resign. The email was racist. Race is a justifiably divisive issue due to slavery and hundreds of years of racial discrimination. I’m sure the list goes on.
If I agree with you, I don’t think it means I’m trying to co-opt you as an ally. I just agree.
February 28th, 2009 at 3:43 pmFebruary 28th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
backup Says:
you’re going into your second day at this post.
are you eating meals, have you
taken a shower and shaved?
I’ve got a few more hours. I’ve got to work tomorrow. I just hate the idea of leaving without this all getting resolved.
***
uh backup,
unless you’re planning on getting a
personality transplant you can quit now.
the “resolved” train left the station not
long after your first post.
***
sorry you wasted all that time,
now go get ready for work…
btw, what do you do for a living?
*
don’t tell me clergyman.
please.
***
February 28th, 2009 at 3:48 pm–
February 28th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
backup Says:
I don’t disagree with anything you say.
Waynebro. Obviously the context is important. What’s the number of the post?
I imagine that whatever we were talking about at the time, I agreed.
We still probably agree on a lot.
Grose is ignorant. He is right to resign. The email was racist. Race is a justifiably divisive issue due to slavery and hundreds of years of racial discrimination. I’m sure the list goes on.
If I agree with you, I don’t think it means I’m trying to co-opt you as an ally. I just agree.
***
no backup, no.
that’s your forced teaming
technique. let it go. it’s not working.
*
February 28th, 2009 at 3:51 pmThe concern troll claims to “agree”, and then proceeds to reduce the racist hate speech to a “COMMENT ON RACE”.
Then he denies he reduced it to a “COMMENT ON RACE”.
Then, when his words are reposted for him showing he DID reduce the crime of racist hate speech to a “COMMENT ON RACE”, he proceeds to proclaim, “the statement was accurate”.
:|
It boggles the mind.
February 28th, 2009 at 3:54 pmHe’s doing it.
February 28th, 2009 at 3:57 pmwayne,
his mind was boggled years ago.
like i said it’s probably goof balls.
maybe an industrial-occupational accident.
***
February 28th, 2009 at 3:57 pmActually, I’m a salaried male exotic dancer at a long term care facility.
I’m looking for something else. But it’s paying the bills for now.
February 28th, 2009 at 3:58 pmbackup Says:
don’t tell me clergyman.
Actually, I’m a salaried male exotic dancer at a long term care facility.
I’m looking for something else. But it’s paying the bills for now.
*
wayne,
that’s the goof balls talking.
i rest my case.
***
February 28th, 2009 at 4:00 pmcome on. tell me how Grose wasn’t commenting on race:
When you use the dictionary, that’s what you get. What are you using?
February 28th, 2009 at 4:00 pmSure.
But first you tell me how Hitler wasn’t just addressing Jewish problems in his country.
February 28th, 2009 at 4:04 pmAlright. I’ve got to split. But, don’t go anywhere. I’ll be back in a few days and we’ll hash this out.
peace out.
February 28th, 2009 at 4:05 pmOk, you run away.
And when you come back, your first assignment will be to explain how Hitlers famous Reichstag Speech was not just his “commenting on race“.
February 28th, 2009 at 4:07 pmOr in your case, how it WAS his merely “commenting on race”.
February 28th, 2009 at 4:08 pmbackup Says:
It boggles the mind.
come on. tell me how Grose wasn’t commenting on race:
The guy. Grose. That’s easy.
comments. here’s a definition from comments:
remark: a statement that expresses a personal opinion or belief or adds information
It was an email that forwarded a stereotype. Here’s the definition of stereotype:
A conventional, formulaic, and oversimplified conception, opinion, or image.
So, he expresses an opinion, in the form of a stereotype, in an email.
He comments.
On race. That’s easy. the watermelon depiction is a common racial stereotype.
And loses. defined:
to fail to keep, sustain, or maintain
I feel confident that Grose has failed to keep his job.
So, The guy comments on race and he loses his job.
When you use the dictionary, that’s what you get. What are you using?
*
he is using his brain.
this is not commenting on race
any more than this is.
you had a completely different opinion
on that earlier, remember? why isn’t that
just a “comment on race”. why do you trip
yourself up so often and deny it?
you are intellectually inconsistent and it shows.
that’s bad for a concern troll, better work on that.
***
February 28th, 2009 at 4:13 pmbackup Says:
Alright. I’ve got to split. But, don’t go anywhere. I’ll be back in a few days and we’ll hash this out.
peace out.
*
backup Says:
Alright. I’ve got to split. But, don’t go anywhere. I’ll be back in a few hours and we’ll hash this out.
*
fixed.
***
February 28th, 2009 at 4:17 pmbackup thinks waving a nazi flag at a jewish wedding would be a blunder….
backup thinks hanging a noose is front of a black man is a blunder…..
backup thinks, wait a minute, that can’t be right!!!!!
February 28th, 2009 at 4:24 pmI’d like to address this one more time if I may, just to be clear.
Because this comment goes to the heart of backups efforts at concern trolling this hateful and hurtful act of racism down to a mere “blunder” or “misstep”.
Here’s the rub.
Both words, “Blunder” and “misstep”, have one common denominator between them. Does anyone know what that common thread is?
That’s right. They both imply an “accident”. An “unintentional” act. A “mistake”.
From the current dictionary;
—–
—-
As we see, the definitions all point to mistakes. “Thoughtless” errors. Unintentional or “careless” mistakes. Accidents. Acting “blindly”. Mental confusion. Careless. Bungling. Botched. Something not intended or planned.
In fact, the very word “blunder” literally holds its origins from the word “blunda” meaning to “NAP”, or to “shut ones eyes”.
And of course a “misstep” requires no definition. After all, no sane person could argue that someone “missteps” on purpose.
A misstep is likewise, an accident. An “unintentional step”. No one intentionally missteps.
Thus, we see the concern troll has carefully selected his choice of descriptors to imply that this was an unintentional act An accident. Which ironically just happens to be former Mayor Grose’s defense.
The problem with that?
Easy.
What Mayor Grose did was 100 percent purposeful. He intended to do it. It was therefore intentional. No “unintentional” as backup subtly suggests.
There was a clear intent to use the word “WATERMELON” as a derogatory term. He even admitted it was intended to be a “joke”.
Thus we can clearly establish that this was no “accident”. No unintentional mistake. No “blunder”. No “misstep” as backup tries to imply.
It was a blatant act of intentional offensive racism.
Backup has thus been exposed, trying to subtly convince people that what former Mayor Grose did was merely an “accident” or “misstep”, which of course immediately lessons the nature of the offense. Just as in our court system where intent is the basis of criminal law, (i.e murder as opposed to involuntary manslaughter) so to we see our concern troll backup playing defense attorney for former Mayor Grose.
After all, if he can seed into peoples minds that it was an unintentional “misstep” as he put it, then it will be easier to sweep under the rug, and dismiss this act of intentional racism which will naturally reduce the level of needed discourse on the topic. After all, people don’t get too worked up about accidents. But intentional acts tend to earn the ire of the masses. And rightfully so.
So when our concern troll returns in “a few days” (guess he needs time to think), be sure to explain to him that his consistent and repeated attempts to paint this as an unintentional act are fooling no one. His attempts to diminish the nature of the offense to a mere “accident” is simply an attempt to stifle real debate on this sort of purposeful, intentional racism. And ironically, it stands as a stark contrast to his constant heralding of his cries for us to “stop being cowards and discuss race”.
He doesn’t really want to discuss race.
He wants to curb discussions on the racists he is here to support by pretending this wasn’t really an intentional action, but merely a unintentional, accidental mistake.
Proving he is in no uncertain terms a far right wing “Concern Troll”, here to defend right wing racist hate speech in all its unseemly glory.
:|
The prosecution rests your honor.
February 28th, 2009 at 11:55 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
I saw how that worked and sank two. The guy claimed that since the one went off the backboard it didnt count.
March 1st, 2009 at 4:05 amWaynebro. I agree with your assessment that blunder and misstep connote mistake. Here’s from the Orange County Register:
The guy is an idiot. His excuse that he didn’t know, is lame attempt to minimize the incident. He knew or he would not have sent Price, who he knew was black, an email that coincidentally had watermelons on the White House lawn.
It was a racist stereotypical joke.
It is possible that he had some grudge against Price, or black people in general, that motivated him to intentionally send something meant to offend her.
That is possible. But, I don’t think so. I believe that what is more likely, is that Grose believed he had a relationship with Price that made the joke, in his mind, somehow acceptable and humorous to her. He was wrong.
Let me stop you there. The joke was ignorant. He is right to resign, if for nothing else, he’s tone dead on race and lacks good judgement. I don’t find the joke appropriate, but I think that, at the time, he thought it was.
There is a difference, between being ignorant and displaying poor judgement and being intentionally racist.
I would describe what Grose did as a blunder, as a misstep, and as a mistake.
I don’t see how you could think that it was not.
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:44 pmAnd let me add this, because I forgot to address the idea that the incident was an ‘accident’ or ‘unintentional’:
I do not think what Grose did was an ‘accident’. He intended to send the joke to Ms. Price. It was no accident. Although he intended to send the email, I think that the offense to Ms. Price was unintentional.
If the offense was intentional, Grose would have to be very dim, to send an email to Price that, if he knew would be taken offensively, she could easily use against him.
I believe that if Grose wanted to intentional offend Price, he would probably due it in a manner that would not create a record.
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:57 pmAttorney General Holder has called America “a nation of cowards” when it comes to “things racial.” According to Holder, “average Americans” are afraid to “talk enough with each other about race.” He may be right because I’m a bit afraid now of asking my black friends why watermelon is so offensive to some of them. (I really like watermelon and I’m Anglo/Saxon) I think it was very cowardly for mayor Grose to resign instead of trying to start a frank and open discussion about the subject of watermelon’s and race. How else are we supposed to find out those things that people claim outrage them, and why.
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