Government lawyer reveals that CIA destroyed 92 interrogation tapes.
Government lawyer reveals that CIA destroyed 92 interrogation tapes.
In December 2007, the New York Times reported that the CIA “destroyed at least two videotapes documenting the interrogation of two Qaeda operatives in the agency’s custody” in 2005. The tapes reportedly showed detainees being subjected to “severe interrogation techniques.” Now, in a letter to federal district Judge Alvin Hellerstein dated March 2, government lawyers reveal that nearly 100 such tapes were destroyed:
“The CIA can now identify the number of videotapes that were destroyed,” said the letter by Acting U.S. Attorney Lev Dassin. “Ninety two videotapes were destroyed.”
The tapes became a contentious issue in the trial of Sept. 11 conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui, after prosecutors initially claimed no such recordings existed, then acknowledged two videotapes and one audiotape had been made.
The letter, dated March 2 to Judge Alvin Hellerstein, says the CIA is now gathering more details for the lawsuit, including a list of the destroyed records, any secondary accounts that describe the destroyed contents, and the identities of those who may have viewed or possessed the recordings before they were destroyed.
The letter was filed as part of the government’s response to a lawsuit filed by the ACLU in response to the December 2007 New York Times report. Former CIA director Michael Hayden previously defended the destruction of the tapes, saying it was “done in line with the law.”
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
Come on guys, it is in the national interest to pretend torture works. We have to protect by destroying records sources and methods that are useless but give boners to the Jack Bauers of middle america.
March 2nd, 2009 at 11:41 amIs destroying evidence legal? Just asking.
March 2nd, 2009 at 11:43 ampaper shredders and vidio tape burners are always criminals.
March 2nd, 2009 at 11:45 amI’m sorry, but none of this is “new”. My question is…. when is this Administration going to ACT??
March 2nd, 2009 at 11:46 amP R O S E C U T I O N …..is the only way this country will be able to heal. Otherwise, the wound of impunity will FESTER forever!
..and the drips became a flood and all the law-breakers were tried and convicted. And America lived happily every after.
(my wish for the ending of this bizarro fairy tale we’ve been living in for the last 8 years.)
March 2nd, 2009 at 11:47 amGovernment lawyer reveals that CIA destroyed 92 interrogation tapes.
– - Around the coffee machines at “The Company.” this is referred to as The Rosemary Woods Gambit.
March 2nd, 2009 at 11:47 amAll divisions under George Bush destroyed their ‘paper’ trails in one form or another.
March 2nd, 2009 at 11:49 amSo if torture is legal (as some claim)
and
the United States never tortured anyone (as some claim)…
Why destroy the documents?
March 2nd, 2009 at 11:50 amThis kind of stuff doesn’t go on in a vacuum. Who gave the orders to destroy these tapes. In an earlier era L Patrick Gray was found guilty for “deep sixing” documents in the Potomic. Justice needs to once again be served.
March 2nd, 2009 at 11:50 amIf they did it “To protect the agents”… who exactly are they protecting them from?
Are the evil terr’ists going to infiltrate Langley a la “Mission Impossible” to steal the videos in order to expose a few CIA interrogators? Really?
March 2nd, 2009 at 11:53 am“If they did it “To protect the agents”… who exactly are they protecting them from?”
let me field this one: to protect agents from the hague
March 2nd, 2009 at 11:54 amIANAL, but isn’t there some legal term for destroying evidence ?
What about making false statements to the court ? and when a lawyer (who is an officer of the court) does such, isn’t there some sort of penalty ?
If I were to do the same, what would happen to me ?
March 2nd, 2009 at 11:58 amFox News Rules Says:
March 2nd, 2009 at 11:59 amWhere was the outrage when sandy burgler destroyed top secret info? What’s that? There was none from you far left kooks?
Sandy Berger never destroyed top secret info, you blabbering idiot.
ooohhh lookie, fox news fool found himself another thread after getting his arse handed to him on another one. still waiting for you to “prove” and of your claims
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:00 pmI know for a fact that you traitors would like nothing more than to see more terrorists go free, but,this is not news!
–
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:00 pmThan it should be no problem to have us all convicted eh “factboy”. I think I may play this stupid premise of yours each and everytime I see you. What do say?
Lemme see – we interrogate* potential terrorists capable of 9/11-esque attacks. So important are these interrogations that we destroy the primary record of them.
Fcuk contempt of court. This looks more like treason.
* And/or torture, presumably.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:01 pmWhose sandy burglar?
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:01 pmMore proof that American justice is bifurcated. Many are above the law.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:01 pmObstruction of Justice. Investigate and prosecute. We can’t allow this to go on.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:02 pmWhat terrorists are you talking about FNR? I’d love to see the proof. If anyone being held is truly a terrorist then we shouldn’t have any problem trying them in a court of law. If found guilty then let the punishment fit the crime. If not then…..what would propose to do with someone who’s been found not guilty of a crime?
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:05 pmAs usual, we may haver another case of “it’s not the crime, it’s the cover-up.”
The destruction is, of course, good evidence of mens rea concerning the actual substantive crimes.
Cheers,
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:05 pmOh I see. So there is no one named sandy burglar? I was already familiar with Sandy Berger but that wasn’t what you keyboarded. I am still interested in what makes Fox News Rule. I thought I had asked politely but still I have gotten no feedback from the clear expert on the topic.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:08 pm#23 Fox News Rules Says:
“Sandy Berger Clinton National Security Advisor pleads guilty to stealing top secret documents.”
You’ll note that he pled guilty. Care to draw the appropriate analogy? But I’d also note that he didn’t “steal” any such documents. You’re guilty of “lying”. Now FOAD with your stale RW tu quoque “talking points”.
Cheers,
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:08 pmFox News Rules Says:
“Sandy Berger Clinton National Security Advisor pleads guilty to stealing top secret documents.”
Old news…. and this has WHAT to do with evidence being destroyed by the Bush administration, dumb-fck?
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:08 pm“Fox News Rules beheaded and ate several small children before returning to his basement lair.”
There, I made up a quote too. Without a verifiable link, its just as valid as your quotes, too.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:08 pmBecause when you are proud of your work and that work can be used to teach, train and benefit everyone, you keep that information available for all to see!
They are embarrassed and ashamed of the vile behavior.
Criminals hide and destroy evidence of their crimes.
-GSD
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:09 pmI know for a fact that you traitors would like nothing more than to see more terrorists go free, but,this is not news!
—
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:10 pmThis is so good it needs repeating. Come on Fox News convict my ass before I kick yours…
These tapes are not destroyed. No frigging way.
The rightwing gets off on torture too much to destroy them. Cheney, Hannity – you know, the cowardly little GOP types – have these stashed away for future use as stroking material.
They’re too sick to destroy their favourite pornography.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:10 pmIt is of note that even the ACLU falls into the trap set by Busco: “…the agency engaged in a systemic attempt to hide evidence of its illegal interrogations and to evade the court’s order.”
These were not “illegal” interrogations, as defined “It is used for getting information from a suspect, witness or victim after a crime has been committed.”
The SERI methods used against these people were torture s used to force confessions, such as what North Korean’s were after from US soldiers, not to get at any supposed information. Tortures. The thing Ronald Reagan signed a treaty banning. Tortures, the kind of thing luminaries like Pol Pot and Saddam Hussein were fond of visiting upon their enemies.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:11 pmBurningFeet, without the evidence of the tapes themselves it’s only speculation that it’s torture or not torture. The absence of the tapes is obstruction of justice.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:13 pmHate to be the turd in the punchbowl here guys…
Also this:
Like it or not, Obama’s now part of the problem. There is no excuse.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:18 pmIn a sytem of justice, if you don’t give people their rights you will fail to be able to prosecute them. That’s why they are being turned loose, even under bush. Because they cannot make a case against them because they wanted to torure more than they wanted to prosecute.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:20 pmFox News Rules Says:
I know for a fact that you traitors would like nothing more than to see more terrorists go free, but,this is not news!
March 2nd, 2009 at 11:56 am
__________
No. I would like nothing more than to see them given a fair trial in a court of law and convicted of conspiracy to commit acts of terrorism, if the evidence indicates their guilt.
If their treatment following their apprehension makes it impossible to try and convict them in a court of law, then yes, I would like nothing more than to see these terrorists go free. I’d rther lose a few innocent Americans in a terrorist attack than lose the soul of our country by trashing the Constitution.
And you can quote me on that.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:20 pmI know for a fact that you traitors would like nothing more than to see more terrorists go free, but,this is not news!
—
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:21 pmLet’s go “factboy” Proof this to the jury or retract it. Failure to do so will result in a haunting till you take the pussy way out and change names.
Fox News Rules Says: My irrelevance is only exceeded by my idiocy. I have nothing to add. I am a cheerleader for a losing team. I cannot discuss the topics at hand because I do not have the wherewithal to do anything other than regurgitate talking points. Ignore my posts, as they are ineptly dilivered and poorly defended.
If you read between the lines, this is essentially what FNR is saying.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:24 pmFox News Rules Says:
I’m calling you out meatwhistle. You don’t have the stones or resources to stick to the issue at hand. Anyone can post random, out-of-context crap.
You are genetically unable to defend a substantive position…providing you ever acquire one.
candy-@ss…
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:24 pmNo you don’t, you lie in wait for threads like this. Don’t bother responding to this as I will not engage your Obama bashing.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:25 pmHi John Kerry:
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:25 pmI was expecting you what with it being lunch time and all. Do you have any suggestions this time? In 63 years you must have picked up a good recipe or two.
hanshiro says:
Like it or not, Obama’s now part of the problem. There is no excuse.
It pains me to agree, but we are left with no other option at this time.
We can hope – but shouldn’t delude ourselves – that this will change. After 8 years of the criminal Bush administration, I am inclined to still give President Obama room to maneuver his way to the correct position.
I have, however – and will continue to – contact him and the Democrats advising them that, until proven otherwise, I consider them as complicit in the crimes of the Bush administration.
We must not relent in conveying this to our representatives.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:25 pmFlagging the P-brain sockpuppet troll, since it is posting offtopic crap and trying to derail the thread off topic.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:27 pmI was always bothered by the fact that the jury in the Moussaoui case could convict when evidence was clearly tampered with at best, destroyed at worst. It really seems to me, to be a pathetic display of justice…when we want to try and convict anything and anyone who has a Semitic Arab name, or was even in the same country supposedly that Osama Bin Laden was said to have resided in at some point in time. I am certainly glad that Pres. Obama said that the U.S. will not torture, and that AG Holder said that during the Bush regime, it did. Maybe we as a country this time will get it straight!
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:28 pmhanshiro, that is depressing news. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. The lure of power that the Bush administration created I fear is too great for the Obama administration to give up.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:28 pm43. Fred Says: No you don’t, you lie in wait for threads like this. Don’t bother responding to this as I will not engage your Obama bashing.
Dunno if you can hear me up there on your high horse, fred, but you evaded addressing the subject or disputing any of Greenwald’s points. The guy knows…you don’t.
For you it’s a knee-jerk defense mechanism, for anyone else, it’s necessary information. Try to stick to the issue, fido..
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:28 pmWhy are they destroying evidence?
Oh, illegal torture, I forgot, my bad, carry on.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:30 pmSo this means we can confirm at least 92 incidents of torture?
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:31 pmjk ignores the fact that this decline started when bush was in office and will continue until a democrat can stop the bleeding…..he’s not very smart is he?
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:33 pmJohn Kerry Says:
UNBELIEVABLE!
More “hope and change”?????? DOW down UNDER 7000! Down over 3000 since the former Community Organizer took over! Way to go Bro!! Keep up the good work. You be doing just great!!
Obsessed with the stock market…facts…not so much.
Flagged for being O/T
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:34 pmFred Says:
jk ignores the fact that this decline started when bush was in office and will continue until a democrat can stop the bleeding…..he’s not very smart is he
He’s a 180 degree departure from smart.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:36 pmFred Says:
hanshiro Says:
Hate to be the turd in the punchbowl here guys…
No you don’t, you lie in wait for threads like this. Don’t bother responding to this as I will not engage your Obama bashing.
I don’t see this as obama bashing. If you aren’t prepared to hold obama accountable for his actions or inactions then you are no different than the republicans while bush was President.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:42 pmAnd didn’t obama say it would be up to the people to PUSH HIM to do the right things?
Because the only thing on those tapes were people pleading for mercy and screams.
Some country. Now can we send Bush et al to the Hague.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:42 pmJohn Kerry Says:
UNBELIEVABLE!
More “hope and change”?????? DOW down UNDER 7000! Down over 3000 since the former Community Organizer took over! Way to go Bro!! Keep up the good work. You be doing just great!!
Sorry JK, but you are a liar. Since the Dow was at 7950 when Bush left office, if it was down 3,000 since President Obama took office, the DOW would not be at 4,540. I guess you had a problem with math in school along with all the other subjects.
I think the 3,000 you are talking about is how far the DOW has fallen since George Bush took office 8 years ago.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:45 pmEr..sorry for the apostrophe on “Thanks…”
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:46 pm56.bonzo 1958 Says: I don’t see this as obama bashing. If you aren’t prepared to hold obama accountable for his actions or inactions then you are no different than the republicans while bush was President.
And didn’t obama say it would be up to the people to PUSH HIM to do the right things?
Thank’s ‘mano. That’s my point exactly.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:46 pmer…sorry for the apostrophe on “Thanks…”
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:47 pmhellinabucket Says:
hanshiro, that is depressing news. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. The lure of power that the Bush administration created I fear is too great for the Obama administration to give up.
You know guys, there may be a reason why Obama is making these decisions and their may be legal precedent for it. If President Obama ever starts acting like George Bush and abusing his powers, then and only then will I criticize him.
On the other hand, I do wish that he would explain to us why he is making these decisions.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:49 pm59…60…time travel…
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:49 pmRule of law.
Put the violators in prison.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:54 pmJohn Kerry Says:
More “hope and change”?????? DOW down UNDER 7000! Down over 3000 since the former Community Organizer took over! Way to go Bro!! Keep up the good work. You be doing just great!!
Yeah, the Bush Recession is definitely screwing up the global economy.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:55 pmBilbo @62, I too hope for the best but won’t just cross my fingers and hope. This country needs a political enema and the american public need to be demanding that a real change take place. To continue with Bush’ State Secret practices needs to be addressed.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:56 pmCONCERNING SANDY BERGER AND THE DOCUMENTS (emphasis mine):
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A16706-2005Mar31.html
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:57 pmJohn Kerry Says:
Flagged for being O/T and pointless.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:58 pmBadass
Have ALREADY made suggestions! Pay attention!
—-
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:59 pmWell shit old timer, how will I know if I have the ingredients?
Now about this bold thing. Is it that you only know how to make the computer do certain things that the grandchildren thought you? See we can help you. Have you experimented with italics?
Under George Bush the stock market went from 14,000 points down to under 8,000 points, so where were the reich wing American Taliban Members then, huh?
And when reminded that George Bush brought our nation’s debt level to almost $12 TRILLION, the typical reich wing response we get? BUSH SPENT THE MONEY…….SLOWLY.
Laugh out loud funny!
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:59 pmI know that’s a foreign word to you all.
March 2nd, 2009 at 1:00 pm—
Did I miss the word?
October 6th 2008 the stock market was around 9,900 and that’s where a 3,000 point drop would be accurate. Wasn’t Bush still president in Oct?
March 2nd, 2009 at 1:01 pmBy the way, trolls, the stock market currently is worth nothing, so if it plummets to 5,000 points or less then we will finally be at the bottom and Americans will understand how laughable the SHADOW ECONOMY UNDER GEORGE BUSH actually was!
If you were worth $1,000,000 on paper and believed it, you’re a schmuck. Face this reality.
March 2nd, 2009 at 1:01 pmIt’s time for CIA responsibles to be standing in front of judges explaining why they intentionally violated the law -and- who ordered it!
March 2nd, 2009 at 1:11 pmJohn Kerry Says:
Bilbo Hussein: Sorry, check your facts. Since the Community Organizer was elected it’s down close to 3000!!
Only in JK’s world could 7950-6836 = 3000. I knew he wasn’t a genius but I had no idea he was that stupid.
March 2nd, 2009 at 1:11 pmWhere is the topic of this thread the stock market?
If the trolls insist, the DOW has a participation of 500 or so companies. Those numbers come out of declining corporate profits and reduced dividends. Hence, the steadily declining economic numbers are having a reverberating effect. I would like to know how Obama, spending almost every waking moment working on the economy, has to do with numbers that have been steadily declining with few jumps.
Second, when has the stock market been truly representative of anything other than rich people? It wasn’t representative during the so-called “boom years”, where the savings rate declined and people had to take on shoddy mortgages in the face of overinflated home values.
I’d hear crap on the radio and TV, gloating that “there were a lot of people (hot shots) making a lot of money.” That didn’t turn out so well for the country.
March 2nd, 2009 at 1:13 pmKayInMaine Says:
And when reminded that George Bush brought our nation’s debt level to almost $12 TRILLION, the typical reich wing response we get? BUSH SPENT THE MONEY…….SLOWLY.
All other Presidents combined left us $5 trillion in debt. Bush more than doubled that in 8 years. I don’t think that can be called “slowly”.
March 2nd, 2009 at 1:13 pmhellinabucket Says:
Bilbo @62, I too hope for the best but won’t just cross my fingers and hope. This country needs a political enema and the american public need to be demanding that a real change take place. To continue with Bush’ State Secret practices needs to be addressed.
I agree wholeheartedly. I write the White House on a daily basis letting them know what I think of some of the decisions that President Obama has made and imploring them to have him explain his thinking behind those decisions. If he doesn’t do it soon, he’s going to have a real problem because he’s giving the right a lot of fodder to try to prove the decisions Bush made were the correct decisions.
March 2nd, 2009 at 1:16 pmEvery time I see a story about torture and the Obama adminstration’s lack of effort in getting to the bottom of it, I can’t help but think back to the line from A Few Good Men when Jack Nicholson says “…deep down in places you don’t talk about at parties you want me on that wall…”
I think the same holds true here. I think deep down Obama and his administration don’t really care if we tortured or not. Mayeb they feel most of them deserved it if we did. I can’t can’t see him losing alot of sleep over the issue.
March 2nd, 2009 at 1:23 pmBilbo, you are the definition of an active participant in democracy. I do write from time to time to the White House and my representatives and this is an issue that I will be writing about.
President Obama is proving to be wise beyond his years in how he is addressing all in front of him. I only hope that he is moving slowly, but prudently, in untangling this particular mess.
March 2nd, 2009 at 1:23 pmJohn Kerry Says:
Bilbo Hussein:
Sorry, check your facts. Since the Community Organizer was elected it’s down close to 3000!!
Oh, I get it, the idiot troll is moving the goal posts. Now he’s saying it is down 3000 since Obama was “elected”. Well I guess that’s true, but most of that 3000 was lost before he took office.
By this kind of logic, I guess that made Bush responsible for the Dow falling at least that much after he was elected. But, in Republican’t world, things like that only apply to Democrats and not Republican’ts.
I hate to tell the idiot JK but the economy started imploding long before Obama was even the Democratic candidate for President so it’s kind of hard to figure out how he could be responsible for the state the economy is in today.
March 2nd, 2009 at 1:28 pmAnother Chris Says:
I think the same holds true here. I think deep down Obama and his administration don’t really care if we tortured or not. Mayeb they feel most of them deserved it if we did. I can’t can’t see him losing alot of sleep over the issue.
I totally disagree with you. President Obama has stated equivocally that torture is wrong and he will not condone it. Because he is not making going after those who perpetuated it does NOT mean he doesn’t care. I think it means that he recognizes the fact that if he gets caught up in championing prosecuting those who were responsible for torture, his agenda to get this country moving again will come to a grinding, screeching halt. If you think the Republican’ts are obstructionists now, just think what will happen if President Obama says he’s declaring war on the Bush Crime Family. Besides, prosecuting these people IS NOT in President Obama’s domain, it is in the domain of the Justice Department.
I truly believe that they will be prosecuting the people who perpetuated these crimes, it may just take a while. Plus, the more the public learns about the crimes committed by the Bush Crime Family, the louder the cry will be to bring these people to justice.
March 2nd, 2009 at 1:32 pmFirst it was this:
Down over 3000 since the former Community Organizer took over!
Then it was this:
Sorry, check your facts. Since the Community Organizer was elected it’s down close to 3000!!
Does this person think that Obama “took over” the day he was elected? Is this how this person thinks our government works? Could he be that stupid and ignorant?
March 2nd, 2009 at 1:33 pm80)
March 2nd, 2009 at 1:35 pmYes, yes he could be…
Bilbo says:
Because he is not making going after those who perpetuated it does NOT mean he doesn’t care. I think it means that he recognizes the fact that if he gets caught up in championing prosecuting those who were responsible for torture, his agenda to get this country moving again will come to a grinding, screeching halt. If you think the Republican’ts are obstructionists now, just think what will happen if President Obama says he’s declaring war on the Bush Crime Family.
I think you are wrong there. The Republicans threw everything they had at stopping the stimulus and they failed and looked bad in the process, so I’m not sure how his agenda would be effected. I would think public opinion would be very high in favor of prosecutions. And I have heard more then once that Obama’s election was a “mandate from the people”. So with all that going for him, what’s stopping him. And you are right that it really is the decision of the Justice Department, but don’t you think they would take some cues from the President? Holder certainly didn’t stray to far from Obama’s position during his confirmation hearing if I’m not mistaken.
March 2nd, 2009 at 1:39 pmdbadass,
It was a rhetorical question. ;)
(Now the idiot who thinks Obama took over the day he was elected has to go run to his dictionary to look up the word “rhetorical”.)
March 2nd, 2009 at 1:40 pmNanci Pelosi knew about the tactics at Gitmo back in 2003. That’s what she said to Rachel Maddow the other night. She also said that it was Top Secret information so she couldn’t tell anyone about it. She says that she still can’t talk about it today. Many other Democrats were also informed along with Nancy so it really was a well known fact.
To make out that only Bush and the Republicans knew about this is silly. So now you want an investigation into who knew what and when. Well I say bring it on but lets really get to the bottom of this terrible problem.
To quote many Liberals such as Rachel Maddow “no one is above the law” “YUP”.
If you knew that a law was being violated or an illegal act was being committed such as torture, does the Secrecy act apply???
March 2nd, 2009 at 1:51 pmI’ll correct my own typo for you. Nancy Pelosi. There. I know someone will point that out but now it’s moot.
March 2nd, 2009 at 1:54 pmMr. Kerry here gets missguided easily. This isn’t the posting for Ignorant rants about the economy. This posting is about how the CIA destroyed 92 tapes of interogations. Now if you have a rant that you’d like to apply to this subject please do so. Otherwise you give the appearance of a one trick pony, or broken record, or just a dipsh!t. They all apply.
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:00 pmjay Says:
——————————————————————————–
Nancy Pelosi knew about the tactics at Gitmo back in 2003. That’s what she said to Rachel Maddow the other night. She also said that it was Top Secret information so she couldn’t tell anyone about it. She says that she still can’t talk about it today. Many other Democrats were also informed along with Nancy so it really was a well known fact.
To make out that only Bush and the Republicans knew about this is silly. So now you want an investigation into who knew what and when. Well I say bring it on but lets really get to the bottom of this terrible problem.
To quote many Liberals such as Rachel Maddow “no one is above the law” “YUP”.
If you knew that a law was being violated or an illegal act was being committed such as torture, does the Secrecy act apply???
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:14 pmHi John Kerry:
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:20 pmCome on you must know how to cook something…
This is a super weird 63 year old we got on the hook here. I say we cut loose the bycatch. Too old and tired…
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:22 pmWe do the same with Dogfish in Puget Sound.
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:25 pmAccording to JK, Abraham Lincoln would not have been a qualified candidate for President.
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:26 pmJohn Kerry Says:
What has the Messiah ever done in his life to be named leader of the free world?????
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:12 pm
____________
Got elected by a majority of the popular and electoral votes.
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:27 pmBush Recession. Face it, JK.
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:29 pmnamed leader of the free world?????
—
Is this like when they call the world series winning team the “world champions”?
I never get that shit. It seems so obnoxiously presumptuous
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:33 pmJohn Kerry Says:
One more time! What has the Bamster ever done????
Other than inheriting the Bush Recession?
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:48 pmAnd I repeat. What the f uck is up with the bold old man!
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:55 pmBy the way John Kerry. I still have some really good oysters. Now as to this premise that the president of the USA is somehow so sort of global king? What sort of stupid shit is that?
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:56 pmKerry here is questioning the qualifications of President Obama but is he willing to address the qualifications of the last President?
AWOL is AWOL no matter who’s your daddy.
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:59 pmKerry, you simpleton. Obama won the election and that is the single most qualifying factor there is. Don’t know if he’s going to be a good, great or terrible president but the majority of the eligible voters in this country decided that he was/is qualified.
Bush said he had a mandate from the people at 51%. Now did Bush lie then? If he did admit it and we can open up the huge can of stupid that Bush also did. If he didn’t lie then, then Obama’s got a larger mandate than Bush ever did so to answer your question the american public has decided that Obama is qualified to be President of the United States.
Whether or not you can wrap your head around that is a problem only you and your mirror will have.
March 2nd, 2009 at 3:04 pmlooks like my timing couldn’t have been better.
March 2nd, 2009 at 3:04 pmUh, JK, McDonald’s may work with you to loosen your schedule so you can get the outpatient mental therapy you badly need. But you may need to quit and beg Limbaugh to pay your bills for the much recommended inpatient treatment.
March 2nd, 2009 at 3:06 pmLooks like JohnKerry has totally confused AGAIN his students.
—
March 2nd, 2009 at 3:07 pmI love it John. From colossal bold pussy to master teacher in a few days. Excellent. Ridiculous but excellent…
NO ONE can come up with ANYTHING that qualifies a community organizer to be President! C’mon kids, just ONE example!!
March 2nd, 2009 at 3:09 pm—
I son’t have to as you just lost. See the question you asked was for evidences to support being “leader of the free world”. I challenged the premise that the USA president is such. Now you change the game. Pwned again but still you can have an oyster or two if you want. You are way out of you league old man…
Well, JK, I’m glad the conservatives didn’t put a cap on mental bankruptcies.
How is a 12-year elected official qualified to be president?
How does experience on the ground dealing with people out of work and hungry and homeless help a potential president? Wouldn’t that wipe away corporation sympathy and actually keep the people in mind?
What achievement do you have, JK, that trumps a Harvard Law summa cum laude grad and president of the law review?
Finally, where in the constitution is experience as envisioned by the say-all-do-nothing GOP?
You hate people smarter than you. That’s it, JK.
March 2nd, 2009 at 3:12 pmIf a dry drunk AWOL coke snorting dope smoking destroyer of any business he owned can be president then why not a community organizer? Just like Jindal said “Americans can do anything”
March 2nd, 2009 at 3:13 pmJK, stop hating my country just because your ilk will never again have the opportunity to lead it. It’s over. Everybody’s caught on to you.
Goodbye.
March 2nd, 2009 at 3:14 pmJohn Kerry Says:
——————————————————————————–
School closed for now kiddies!
—
March 2nd, 2009 at 3:14 pmYou pussy. You’re running away again. Damn you are my b itch aren’t you?
JK is a hoot. I liken him to a related niece or nephew that’s the brat at every party and you no longer tolerate the little piss ant and call him or her out on the stupid crap they think they need to do not caring about what their parents may think because it’s evident to all around that the ability to parent ended a long time ago.
March 2nd, 2009 at 3:18 pmJK the puny underachiever is just mad that we don’t have a corporate whore for a president. Obama could have implanted himself on Wall Street and been a dime-a-dozen pocket-stuffer with his Harvard Law degree, but he chose to go to the troubled streets of Chicago to make a difference. That’s taking a real job if I ever heard of one. We’re very fortunate to have this man as president.
He is gassing and setting fire to the GOP’s carcass. And JK’s burning with the rest of ‘em.
March 2nd, 2009 at 3:20 pmapologies for the b itch comment to those who might be sensitive to that sort of thing. John and I have a special relationship and it needed to be said.
March 2nd, 2009 at 3:20 pmHas the CIA gone rouge? This is serious with a capital S.
March 2nd, 2009 at 3:25 pmdb, don’t let all that great food come between you and JK!
March 2nd, 2009 at 3:28 pmPersonally, I find this “John Kerry” poster to be highly offensive, not simply to me but to the president as well. I know people have fun arguing with him, but I am more interested in debate than I am in arguing. And JK does not know how to debate (as evidenced by his clear desire to not do so.)
He serves no useful purpose to us, but he does serve the right wing in a valuable way by his comments. He makes us waste our time (and TP’s bandwidth) by showing up, engaging in ad hominem attacks, then running away while insulting us (again) and claiming we can’t prove our side. He’s a joke, and he doesn’t help anyone hone their thinking or debating skills. I don’t learn anything about my own beliefs when I try to engage him in rational conversation, and I’m sure no one else here does, either. So, I have asked TP to ban him permanently.
I am through engaging him directly any more. I might say something about the argument he might be trying to make at any given time, but I won’t be addressing him any more. He’s not worth a second of my time. He’s not worth a second of any of yours, either.
You don’t have to agree with me.
March 2nd, 2009 at 3:32 pmI think JK is a phoney, and not a concerned citizen.
March 2nd, 2009 at 3:49 pmWell said Wayne. Many times the response to a troll such as JK points out other items,issues and links that I’ve come to enjoy. There are many posters here who have a great understanding of the issues and provide links to support their side when responding to JK. Those are the links that I will follow and generally lead me to a greater understanding as well.
Also there are times when someone like JK makes it all too easy to poke holes thru.
I fully respect your stance on this and do respect your opinions.
March 2nd, 2009 at 3:54 pmThank you, hellinabucket. That idiot troll jay is still on the old Santorum thread (the one that may already be on page two by now) claiming that his only goal was to show his conservative friends that he can drive the number of comments up to 2000 just by baiting us. He claims he’s trying to prove that we are all filled with hate. I know, I know, he’s projecting, as they often do.
I was simply hoping to convince people that two hours of their time wasted arguing with trolls like JK are two hours they won’t get back, and what do they have to show for it? If JK’s posts created nothing but links to useful information, then his presence might be an overall plus for us. But they don’t. He’s not trying to help us learn anything, he’s just here to insult us.
March 2nd, 2009 at 4:13 pmWayne, just got back here and had to laugh. I’m glad I didn’t spend two hours even reading JK, let alone confront him.
I generally sit back and just read and I do agree with you that there comes a point when it stops being a debate and turns into an exersize in mental masturbation.
There are some who will show an educated view for their side. I value that. There are far too many others though that just dump and run or incite without an attempt at proving their side let alone rebutting the facts that are presented. Such is the wonderful world of the internets.
March 2nd, 2009 at 4:41 pmI certainly agree Wayne, though I’m part of the problem. TP only deleted a couple of posts of JKs in the past. JK is more like a shock jock troll, and his cut-and-run status has granted him some unusual attention. The troll’s style keeps him here. Because he can’t gain any attention on substance.
March 2nd, 2009 at 4:43 pmI’m all for serious debate, but it has to be serious. If some conservative (not a troll) can prove to me that the things I believe are wrong, then I want them to do that. I want to know the truth. Unfortunately, trolls like JK are too ignorant about the foundations of their conservative beliefs to be able to intellectually discuss them. For example, do you think you would ever get from any of them, and JK in particular, a straight, coherent answer to the question, “What do conservatives mean by the term ‘big government’?” No matter what measure they use (money spent, employees on the payroll, number of government agencies), government got bigger even during Bush’s first term. Now press them on whether they voted for Bush in 2004, and they immediately launch into a diatribe about the real John Kerry (the one who had the guts to serve his country in uniform.) They cannot intelligently defend the conservative point of view, and that’s what I’m looking for.
Maybe this is the wrong website to do that and I should spend my time elsewhere. Which I’ve strongly considered doing.
March 2nd, 2009 at 5:03 pmI continue to think that it is perfectly possible for intelligent folks such as Wayne A, Schneider and others to have interesting dialogues without being overly impacted by the goofs and goofiness. It should be possible for people of all stripes to play through based on those they wish to dialogue with and those they wish not to.
March 2nd, 2009 at 5:16 pmJK what is unbelieveable is what a stupid, cowardly, punk you are. You have no decency and no brain. Go parachuting with a handkerchief, do the world a favor.
March 2nd, 2009 at 5:23 pmjay Says:
Nancy Pelosi knew about the tactics at Gitmo back in 2003. That’s what she said to Rachel Maddow the other night. She also said that it was Top Secret information so she couldn’t tell anyone about it. She says that she still can’t talk about it today. Many other Democrats were also informed along with Nancy so it really was a well known fact.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You make a good point. IF she knew torture was happening for certain and IF she wasnt bound by a classified information restriction she should have done something and be held accountable if she didnt do what she could within the bounds of the law.
To make out that only Bush and the Republicans knew about this is silly. So now you want an investigation into who knew what and when. Well I say bring it on but lets really get to the bottom of this terrible problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Works for me.
To quote many Liberals such as Rachel Maddow “no one is above the law” “YUP”.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
That is correct in THIS country the LAW is king. No one is above the law. We definitly need to keep it that way
If you knew that a law was being violated or an illegal act was being committed such as torture, does the Secrecy act apply???
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I am not a lawyer and dont know the answer. Lets look into it. Let justice be done though the heavens fall.
March 2nd, 2009 at 5:27 pmJK 8
You ignorant racist piece of garbage. Why dont do the entire world a favor and go drown yourself. You mother called and appologized for not drowning you at birth do us all a favor and make up for her mistake.
March 2nd, 2009 at 5:31 pmJK 110
CLASS???? You couldnt teach an eskimo to make ice. YOU are the most ignorant punk in the history of the internet. Your stupid goes clear to the bone and the world will be that much brighter a place the day you leave it.
March 2nd, 2009 at 5:33 pmWayne A. Schneider Says:
Thank you, hellinabucket. That idiot troll jay is still on the old Santorum thread (the one that may already be on page two by now) claiming that his only goal was to show his conservative friends that he can drive the number of comments up to 2000 just by baiting us.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
An ignorant and cowardly defense he got from Rush Limbaugh. Rush tried it against Media Matters when they called him on his racism and basic churlishness. It goes like this they ACT like a classless moron then when called on acting like a classless moron they say I was just baiting you to show how mean you are WWWWAAAHHHHHHHH. Its pathetic. Have you noticed how often rightwingers come in and get rude and nasty then just snivel embarassingly that others treat THEM the way they are treating us? They listen to the screechmonkeys that do their thinking for them slander us liberals day in and day out and not get called on it and think THEY ought to get away with the same thing and just cant understand why they get rude responses to rude comments.
March 2nd, 2009 at 5:39 pmWayne A. Schneider Says: 126
Exactly so. You cant argue what you believe when you dont know WHY you believe what you do. Since JK just believes what Rush tells him and has NO foundation for that belief or even any understanding WHY he believes it there can be NO real discussion. That and much of what he believes turns out to be flat out wrong. He showed that the one time I saw him actually TRY to debate a subject. He just didnt know what he was talking about and had delusions instead of facts.
March 2nd, 2009 at 5:43 pmJK says:
March 2nd, 2009 at 7:15 pmRush rules! I especially love “Tom Sawyer” and “Roll the bones”! Greatest Canadian rock group evah!
Wayne A. Schneider Says:
Personally, I find this “John Kerry” poster to be highly offensive, not simply to me but to the president as well. I know people have fun arguing with him, but I am more interested in debate than I am in arguing. And JK does not know how to debate (as evidenced by his clear desire to not do so.)
I so agree with you. He constantly makes racist comments about his President (sorry, JK, but he IS your president too) by calling him “brotha” and other demeaning names. We flag him constantly and I have written at least 5 e-mails to TP asking why they allow him to continue to post when they have banned other much less offensive posters.
Today I will take a pledge with you that I will no longer engage it when it shows up on a thread.
March 3rd, 2009 at 12:30 am[n.b. cross-posted comment at FireDogLake .COM]
Listen up, and let’s think this thing through together.
First, consider the logistics of making the video. It is not that some CIA agent stands there with a camera, watching. For one thing, blatant camera recording got scrubbed and buried after Abu Ghraib. But mostly, CIA propers remain invisible, behind the scene managing (’handling’) intermediary ‘cut-outs’ who then sub-contract non-government ‘deniability’ mercenaries to do compartmentalized ‘actions.’ Even so, it is not that some local private eye peeps in on The Show with a telephoto lens from some surveillance distance.
So if it is not done as one imagines video taping a brutal custody murder through a one-way mirror on the wall, then how do you do it?
Explaining how it’s done involves referring to means and resources of associated apparatus and organization. That is, the video taping is one isolated dot, with no context, but the operational logistics is conducted in connection with other dots, (which are details in the explanation), all coordinated in a Big Picture context, (which is where the explanation begins). The CIA personnel actually only oversee that the job gets done and the product is delivered, outside of ‘official’ (accountable) channels, and — most important: control who knows about it; (and what is known, and when).
That is all the indictment that is necessary to condemn the CIA wholesale, nevermind who did what, just that somewhere in a Big Picture, The Company (so-called) knew about the crimes, harbored the criminals, and withheld the information and evidence. And for that — and it has been that for 60 years! — the CIA should be and can be abolished. (Non-violently, with one simple line item veto. Skritch. No more CIA.)
To get a job done, the CIA does not go out (or send a hired cut-out) and hire someone ‘off the street,’ (ignorant of CIA set-up), an unknown passer-by to do the deed. Else they would have to kill him, (to control the spread of knowledge after the operation), although that has been done, simple backstabbing — dead men don’t tell secrets. Instead, the active person is often ‘on retainer’ as a way to think of it, a known quantity developed over time, and assignments, through successive stages of familiarity, control testing, reliability, and ‘insider’ information. (Sometimes those ‘regulars’ are killed, too, when the person is ‘used up,’ or strayed outside of the ‘control zone.’) In a sort of ‘ideal design’ for delivering information, (in this case video/audio, and in every case it’s labeled ‘intelligence’), the source knows what was gathered but doesn’t know who it’s going to, and the end user receives it but doesn’t know who it came from. And between source and end user is no man’s land, spanned by an information bridge of invisible custodians … invisible or dead, that is.
There’s a skimpy sense of context, but maybe enough to get a frame of mind. There are many more connecting dot details — more than fit in a comment. Other dots and a Big Picture of some sort, seems necessary to evaluate the credence of the following investigative report, from Wayne Madsen, about how the videos were made and who watched them.
[A side note about Wayne. Millions more internet browsers and bloggers should see his work, which is prodigious, and daily. Documenting the criminals — by name, dates, dollars, and deaths — who ‘worked their way up’ to be today’s celebrity globalist gangsters, I mean, politicians. You know them already; we elected them … rather, Supreme Kangaroo Court and rigged voting machines ‘elected’ them. They belong in shamed exile or prison. Or both. Madsen’s perfection exemplifies the work that puts them there — think Woodward & Bernstein on Nixon, times 100. (Turns out, a recent book reveals Woodward was a CIA ‘cut-out’ infiltrated in the WashPost and secretly supplied some ‘amazing’ intelligence, to take down Nixon. Such garden-variety federal power corruption is cut-throat. That’s the ‘context’ I was explaining … oh, nevermind.) Madsen’s website tagline is: ‘From deep inside the Washington beltway‘ — that’s wry funny.) The corrupt and complicit MSM won’t touch Madsen’s potent journalism … the comparison disgraces their millionaires’ fakery and blowdried charade. (Today, Atlantic’s Andrew Sullivan blog called him “a conspiracy theorist.” Madsen riposte: “For Sullivan it’s mind over matter. I don’t mind and he don’t matter.” Obama can use that line on Limbaugh’s drug-damaged ditto dumbs.) Madsen is ex-NSA (bio at website) and seems to be (but it’s hard to see what’s invisible) the premier media outlet for ‘intelligence business’ insider whistleblowers — powerful factual dirt on the dirtiest and deadliest of democracy’s enemies; (hint: Hitler wannabe’s). If he ever gets a fact wrong he’s going to get sued into oblivion; there have been hit contracts on him; his website is constantly swarm-attacked; he’s a Constitutional-certified Free Press hero, the first Pulitzer-worthy ‘blogger.’ Bonafide brilliant and worldclass legend … and you maybe never heard of him.
You gotta pay subscription to read his work — cancel your cable TV, send Madsen thirty bucks, save the rest, and in a year you’ll know and understand more (context?) than television’ll tell you in your whole lifetime. Wayne Madsen Report .COM (a k a WMR) Here’s a taste of the best:
March 3rd, 2009 at 2:56 am
maybe
sikis
April 26th, 2009 at 2:25 pmporno izle
porno videolar
porn videos