The military has a long way to go with women and gays. It needs strong leadership to push it in the right direction.

In the future I bet women and men will shower together in combat units… and the lower level enlisted soldiers will follow orders.
They are the same kids who ‘wouldn’t’ understand the ’social adjustment’ of desegregation… everyone was just fine.

You need to realize that the majority of our force is lower level enlisted soldiers; kids just out of high school and usually from lower income and/or minority families. Not exactly the optimal target demographic for this type of social adjustment when faced with the great challenge of fighting a war.

I still don’t follow you on the shower point though. Why shouldn’t I be indifferent to gays showering with me? Why isn’t it acceptable for women to allow me to shower with them? I promise I’ll remain professional…

Of course, you realize the the women are soldiers as well and deserve to be treated with the same respect and dignity you’d expect from your gay comrades, right?

‘Respect’ and ‘professionalism’ are two-way streets… but you knew that. ;)

Apparently not… I have faith they’ll adjust, they’re competent professionals for the most part, or at least they aspire to be…

What about you? Would you be able to serve as long as you never revealed that you were straight? Seems to me that would be only fair… no mention of sexuality in the military at all. You seem to have a clear understanding of Don’t ask, Don’t tell, after all… shouldn’t you abide by it?

I could serve under any conditions I believe, but I don’t have as much faith in the rest of my fellow soldiers. Despite what many of you may have concluded about me, if the military was full of nothing but people that think the way I do, then this policy could be removed without any problem whatsoever. Of course, I would prefer separate showers, unless I could be given the choice to shower with the women. =)

There are many homosexuals who want to serve… the military needs as many volunteers as it can get… why should people who want to serve and will serve professionally and honorably be turned away because you don’t like who they sleep with?

If any of them fail to serve professionally and honorably we already have a methods for dealing with that… we don’t need a special policy for homosexuals.

It’s inherently unfair and un-American… that’s all I’m sayin’

Exactly why the military needs all hands on deck.

What about you? Would you be able to serve as long as you never revealed that you were straight? Seems to me that would be only fair… no mention of sexuality in the military at all. You seem to have a clear understanding of Don’t ask, Don’t tell, after all… shouldn’t you abide by it?

What if the CIC ordered it and nothing terrible happened?

Would you admit it then, ’cause that’s whats gonna happen.

Also, Caleb??? Are we friends now?

If the CIC ordered it and nothing happened, then I would have to admit that I was wrong, obviously. All I’m doing is giving my personal opinion on how I think the change in policy would affect our military, using my personal experience as a veteran as support for my opinion. I respect your opinion, but I disagree that the military is ready. We are fighting 2 wars at the moment, so maybe this experiment would be better served during a different time.

As far as the linguists that were discharged, it’s disappointing to me that people joined the military with a clear understanding of the DADT policy, yet chose to violate the policy after taxpayers spent millions of dollars for their training, especially considering they were trained in such a critical MOS.

March 3rd, 2009 at 1:46 pm

Sounds like an argument used to support the segregation of black and white service members in the military, before they were forced to de-segregate based on an order by the President. Sometimes, it takes outsiders to see the benefits of policies that insiders are incapable of seeing.

Seems to me that the arguments used to support denying equal rights to Americans who are ready, willing and able to serve in the military have no place in our country. I hope and pray that America decides to join the vast majority of NATO countries, and eliminates this obviously discriminatory policy.

…

drew3rd??

…

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6824206

Jeebuz…

What if the CIC ordered it and nothing terrible happened?

Would you admit it then, ’cause that’s whats gonna happen.

Also, Caleb??? Are we friends now?

Like firing a bunch of your Arabic translators at the Pentagon just ’cause they’re gay right before launching a major operation in the Middle East?

That kind of negative impact on missions?

BTW, I’m just not willing to try what amounts to a social experiment to satisfy a small minority serving in the military under the current policy at the expense of the vast majority. I have no doubt that Gays perform just as well as straights in their MOS duties, but it’s not worth the risk to introduce a social factor that will require the majority of our military to address, in one way or another.
Isn’t that what they said about desegregating the military?

I’m just not willing to try what amounts to a social experiment to satisfy a small minority serving in the military under the current policy at the expense of the vast majority. I have no doubt that Gays perform just as well as straights in their MOS duties, but it’s not worth the risk to introduce a social factor that will require the majority of our military to address, in one way or another. I want our military force to be the best fighting force in the world and anything that could negatively affect their ability to perform the mission should be avoided. If the military voted for the removal of the DADT policy and allow gays to serve openly, then I would the first to admit that I was completely wrong in my assumption that this would have too much of a negative impact.

BTW PV, I’ve also acted with a gay woman who served in the U.S. Army… she had to not only kiss me but pretend to perform fellatio on me while basically topless… we were friends and she was certainly my type physically but I felt no desire to pursue her when she made it clear that my affections would not be returned… why do you think that the men you serve with would behave any less professionally?

No, no, no. This would be a conflict of personal interest. The last thing you want is another soldier hitting on you on liberty, during war. Their sole purpose is to win military missions. If you do not inform anybody about your sexuality, you will be alright.

As someone who has “informed” us about your sexual identity (and you are definitely not “alright”), how much of your day do you spend hitting on women? Why do you assume that gay men or lesbians would do more hitting on people than you? And have you ever had a gay man hit on you? I have. I said “not interested” and that was the end. What’s the big deal?

No, but I’ve acted with gay men who did… He served in the Marines, actually.

If not, then you really have no relevant basis to conclude that because it worked for you in acting it will work for everyone in the military.

Did I say it would work for everyone? No, I said it will work for those who are willing to be professional, just like in the theater. And I said if that isn’t you, well then maybe you need a different career…

I am certain that gays in the military face great challenge in living a secret life, but I believe the alternative solution would cause much more harm overall to our military than what we have now.

So you recognize that your brothers in arms are facing unnecessary difficulty because of this policy but you are unwilling to change it ’cause you think that overall MOST people in the military are like you… what an awesome soldier you must be… No one gets left behind unless it inconveniences you, huh?

Why don’t they let the military themselves vote on it?

What happened to following your CIC’s orders?
Besides,
You may not have as much support in the military as you think…

March 3rd, 2009 at 11:19 am

Shows what Daryll knows. Men & women are not separated in boot-camp. Companies are desegregated, and go thorugh boot-camp together. When I had basic training, it was with men & women. Of course, they both had their own sleeping & washing facilities.

When I was in the Army, not one of my rommates cared that I was gay. Seems like the only people who arae afraid of gays openly serving are those who have problems with their own sexual orientations.