CNBC’s Donny Deutsch offers nonsensical defense of F-22: ‘Keep spending, we gotta get safe!’
CNBC’s Donny Deutsch offers nonsensical defense of F-22: ‘Keep spending, we gotta get safe!’
As ThinkProgress previously noted, defense contractors are lobbying the Obama administration to purchase and build more expensive F-22 fighter jets, a weapons system that hasn’t been utilized at all in either the Iraq or Afghanistan wars. Last night on CNBC, CAP’s Larry Korb debated neoconservative pundit Frank Gaffney about the utility of purchasing more F-22s. Gaffney argued that cutting the program would lead to “diminished military capability, emboldening enemies, and alienating our friends.” CNBC’s Donny Deutsch agreed, offering this nonsensical commentary:
You know, basically defense spending only went up 4 percent in Obama’s budget. Historically, it’s been going up 9 percent. So that tells me it’s a small piece of the pie. A lot of guys concerned we don’t have these 22s and 35s, we are less safe. That’s all I gotta hear. […]
I’m a hawk. The day that we are not on top of the game. To me, it creates jobs. The fact — just keep spending, we gotta get safe. This is an ugly, ugly world today. If I hear a lot of military guys concerned about this, that’s all I gotta hear.
Watch it:
The right wing is attempting to spin Obama’s defense budget increase as “defense cuts.” The Obama administration is correctly weighing whether to put the F-22 on the chopping block; it is a “relic of a bygone era” that has limited utility against current and emerging threats. As Korb noted on CNBC, “We’re not talking about getting rid of the thing. We already got 187 of them.” “What we’re talking about is priorities,” he added.
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You never know when aliens might attack and we need Will Smith to hop in his F-22 and defend the Earth.
March 4th, 2009 at 11:36 amyou have nothing to fear except…GODDAMNED EVERYTHING!!!
republican. is it latin for pussy?
March 4th, 2009 at 11:40 amWe currently spend almost as much on defense as the rest of the world combined.
Does Deutsch think we’re such pussies that we need that much more armament than everyone else just to “keep us safe”? Jeebus, all John Wayne needed was a six-shooter and bottle a whiskey to conquer the west. What have we become?
March 4th, 2009 at 11:42 amCAP’s Larry Korb debated neoconservative pundit Frank Gaffney
– - Let’s revisit one of Gaffney’s more intellectual quotes: “The most desirable aspects of the Law of the Sea Treaty pertain to navigational rights.”
THUD.
March 4th, 2009 at 11:42 am“I’m a hawk.”
–Donnie Deutsch
Hey, Donnie…I’m a hawk, too. I’m also a Zionist.
But I don’t believe in spending myself into oblivion and bankruptcy any more than I believe that endless war against the Palestinians is the answer, either.
Idiots, squawking over the cable news outlets, presumably to other listening idiots.
March 4th, 2009 at 11:44 amLet me see if I understand: An increase that represents less than the normal increase is actually a decrease?
Just like rolling back taxcuts to pre-cut rates is a tax increase.
Black is white, up is down, wet is dry. Even after the dumbing down of America, most still understand the truth.
PEACE
March 4th, 2009 at 11:44 amWhere there is smoke…
there is Rush and his cigar trying to start a fire.
My defense spending would be focused on giving the families of military personnell more money as compensation for having their loved one in harms way, which would also serve as an economic stimulation. Buy a car, not a plane.
March 4th, 2009 at 11:45 amIt took us SIX MONTHS to re-tool the auto factories into war factories, in the opening days of WW II.
How long could it take us to re-tool the military industrial complex into a green manufacturing complex?
As long as we want to take. As little or as much time as we want to take.
March 4th, 2009 at 11:46 amCNBC’s Donny Deutsch agreed, offering this nonsensical commentary:
I’m a hawk.
You forgot to mention that you’re a d i c k , too ; grab a gun and stand at post then , “hawk” ………
March 4th, 2009 at 11:47 amTie this in with the greed for systems from the Joint Chiefs on down and whatever agenda they have for maintaining their jobs until retiring into the very industries they buy from at really nice salaries. Nor could we fail to mention our dear Political Class, that receive Millions in “Campaign Contributions” from the Military Industrial Complex to see how difficult cutting the DoD from the Budgetary teat is going to be.
March 4th, 2009 at 11:47 amWhat is this obsession the conservatives have with “being safe”?
Who’s safe?
I mean seriously, who is really safe?
Don’t we all die sooner or later? Are we safe from disease? Accidents? Crime? Old age? Who in this world is really safe?
Over the last 10 years, terrorists have killed approximately 4000 Americans. In contrast, over the same 10 years we’ve lost approximately 300,000 to handgun deaths. And we’ve lost another 300,000 to alcohol related traffic fatalities.
But no ones taking the guns or the booze.
So what is this obsession from these namsy pansy neoconservatives who are soooooo afraid of the big bad terrorists, when literally, a HUNDRED TIMES more of us are killed by our own guns?
And a hundred times more of us are killed by booze?
You’d think if they were that concerned with “keeping Americans safe” that rather than hand over our liberties, our freedoms, our money, our young men and women, to sacrifice on the altar of this nonsense about a “war on terror”, that instead they’d be out getting the guns and the booze.
After all, just remove handguns from the country, and you’d “keep safe” 100 times more people than we’ve lost to terrorism in the last 10 years.
So enough with this “keep us safe” nonsense.
If the conservatives are sooooo afraid of the big bad terrorists, then perhaps its time for them to all buy themselves one of those steel panic rooms, ..you know…. the kind that they were selling on TV right after 911, and bury them in the ground, climb in and pull the doors shut behind them.
We’ll call them when its safe to come out.
March 4th, 2009 at 11:48 am“My defense spending would be focused on giving the families of military personnell more money as compensation for having their loved one in harms way…”
I’m with you, PLC. I heard that Obama gave the military a pay raise in the latest budget. Good start. Remember when Bush vetoed their last pay raise? He wanted a 3% hike, and Congress gave them a THREE AND A HALF PERCENT raise, and that was too much?
It isn’t for nothing that we call him “Little Boots”.
March 4th, 2009 at 11:49 am“diminished military capability, emboldening enemies, …”
Do I hear the same rationale for the Iraq fiasco here???
March 4th, 2009 at 11:50 amre: Donny “the day we can’t kick butt, we’re in trouble.”
we are already in a great deal of trouble and the butt-kicking, even with the F-22’s, has not been exactly stellar. We apparently have 187 of them.
What we need to be good “hawks” is a better strategy and that’s what’s being formatted.
also, Donny, we are not “on top of the game” coming out of 8 years of the previous administration’s futile, failing and expensive policies.
March 4th, 2009 at 11:50 am
Bushie, I wouldn’t be against the spending if it were going to greening of America and infrastructure. But spending it on more planes, more bombs, more missiles, more tanks? And don’t even get me started on the Ultimate Boondoggle–Missile Defense, the only weapon in human history to be deployed that doesn’t even work.
March 4th, 2009 at 11:50 amYou mean, if Obama’s stimulus package was $787 billion for guns instead of butter, the entire GOP would be on board?
The sad thing that’s probably true. Yes, even spending money for guns tends to put people to work, but it’s an expensive way to do it and there is no other investment in ourselves (other than the tired meme of “keeping us safe”).
Spending money on infrastructure puts people to work AND is a worthy investment in ourselves. Spending money to mitigate things that suck our money away (like reforming health care) is worthwhile. Putting money in the hands of people most likely to circulate it right back into the economy (as opposed to socking it away in offshore tax-free accounts) is a good strategy. Spending money on yee-haw toys isn’t getting the most bang for our buck.
March 4th, 2009 at 11:51 amYou know, I’m beginning to think that the Republican definition of ‘hawk’ differs from most people’s.
Hawk (dictionary.com): a person, esp. one in public office, who advocates war or a belligerent national attitude.
Hawk (Republican-speak): a person who’s never served in the military or been in combat who claims to know more than someone who has been in the military or been in combat (syn: a tool)
March 4th, 2009 at 11:52 am140 to 160 million for each F22. We already have close to 200 of them. I’m fairly certain that the military could redistribute the money they were going to spend on these to more pressing and urgent matters without increasing their overall budget.
I’m also fairly certain that Donnie Deutschbag is a sideline hawk and wouldn’t know the difference between a claymore and a caisson.
March 4th, 2009 at 11:52 am“Safety” has nothing to do with it. Spending the money with defense contractors, now that’s the real issue.
March 4th, 2009 at 11:53 amTracy__5 Says:
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The F-22 is a flagship waste of money. It’s soooo much better that ANY other fighter that it make no sense to spend that much money per aircraft.
The F-35 however is a much more cost effective system considering ALL branches of the U.S. military can use it not to mention the production being shared by multiple countries.
March 4th, 2009 at 11:51 am
Yeah , thanks for your 1st-hand knowledge and experience as a fighter pilot there , Maverick ………..
March 4th, 2009 at 11:56 amWAYNEBRO Says:
Over the last 10 years, terrorists have killed approximately 4000 Americans. In contrast, over the same 10 years we’ve lost approximately 300,000 to handgun deaths. And we’ve lost another 300,000 to alcohol related traffic fatalities.
But no ones taking the guns or the booze.
March 4th, 2009 at 11:48 am
___________
I regret that I have only one recommendation to give for this post, cause it’s absolutely spot-on.
March 4th, 2009 at 11:57 amI know this logic is too advanced for our GOP dead enders, but maybe if we didn’t make so many guns, bullets, rockets, war planes, bombs, military satelites, etc there wouldn’t be so much death and destruction. Does that make any sense?
If you build weapons, someone must use the weapon to hurt other people. Do we want to be known as the nation who supplied the most weapons in the history of the world? How can peace be achieved if our major exports are weapons?
March 4th, 2009 at 11:58 amI know… I know… it’s O/T, BUT… it’s GOOD news.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/03/04/business/AP-Scotus-Drug-Suit.html?_r=1&hp
Supreme Court Rejects Limits on Drug Lawsuits
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: March 4, 2009
Filed at 11:13 a.m. ET
WASHINGTON (AP) — The Supreme Court on Wednesday upheld a $6.7 million jury award to a musician who lost her arm because of a botched injection of an anti-nausea medication. The court brushed away a plea for limiting lawsuits against drug makers.
____________
Could we PLEASE have a little more sanity from our judicial system like this?
PUL-LEASE!?!?!
March 4th, 2009 at 11:59 amWe apparently have 187 of them.
we have 187 that the Air Force won’t deploy because they won’t be a significant improvement over the F-15’s they have now… the Air Force doesn’t want the F-15 to get the latest multi-tracking Radar because they fear it will improve the F-15’s too much. too cheaply.
The next generation fighter is not an F-22… it is a Drone piloted by a computer jockey remotely and that is why the Air Force is scared.
The next ‘Top Gun’s’ are computer geeks with their X-box enhanced reflexes, not
March 4th, 2009 at 11:59 am11 WAYNEBRO Says:
Don’t give them any ideas, I enjoy my guns and booze, just not at the same time. (see Dick Cheney hunting accident)
March 4th, 2009 at 11:59 amMaybe the big-picture question is: How can the Pentagon spend more than every other national military budget in the word combined, yet the U.S. clearly lacks the ability to achieve its declared objectives in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere?
March 4th, 2009 at 12:01 pmTracy__5 Says:
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“Yeah , thanks for your 1st-hand knowledge and experience as a fighter pilot there , Maverick ………..”
Glad to help the ignorant. You’re welcome
March 4th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
So when exactly are you going to start helping yourself ?
March 4th, 2009 at 12:02 pmU.S. clearly lacks the ability to achieve its declared objectives in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere?
Do we have ‘declared objectives?’
March 4th, 2009 at 12:03 pmOther than ‘to win’ I mean.
F-35s won’t stop terrorist attacks.
F-35s won’t solve crimes.
F-35s won’t end world poverty or hunger.
F-35s won’t be of any use against cybercrimes or worldwide recession.
F-35s will only help those companies dedicated to building F-35s.
March 4th, 2009 at 12:03 pmBased on the projected Worldwide orders (3100 planes) we’ll be buying LOTS OF the F35 Lightening II/(Joint Strike Fighter), built at Lockheed Martin in Ft. Worth Texas, at a cost of over 97 million each, just to “keep up with the Joneses.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-35_Lightning_II
Fcuking Monopoly money, nuttin’ butt.
March 4th, 2009 at 12:06 pmnot to mention the production being shared by multiple countries.
March 4th, 2009 at 12:06 pm—
You mean like the French?
I think Nathan Hale said the same thing… or something like that. lol
Seriously though, if they don’t like the panic room idea then at least someone should tell them to take the “NO FEAR” bumper stickers off their pickups.
March 4th, 2009 at 12:06 pmrepublicanticus scaredeepussycus
Republican in Latin
March 4th, 2009 at 12:07 pmGaffney argued that cutting the program would lead to “diminished military capability, emboldening enemies, and alienating our friends.”
Having more planes than pilots to operate them , increases capability , deters enemies and makes our friends even friendlier towards us ?????????
How , exactly ???????
March 4th, 2009 at 12:09 pmbelac Says:
The next generation fighter is not an F-22… it is a Drone piloted by a computer jockey remotely and that is why the Air Force is scared.
The next ‘Top Gun’s’ are computer geeks with their X-box enhanced reflexes, not
March 4th, 2009 at 11:59 am
____________
Which is something else we should be concerned about, and Navy and Air Force pilots are indeed quite concerned about. Real pilots are highly-educated, highly-trained college graduates with advanced study in aeronautics and aviation. The new generation of drone pilots need none of this – some of the more successful drone pilots are high-school dropouts with video game addictions. It’s one thing to use these for reconnaisance, but it’s another to have gamers firing live ammunition at targets from 3,000 miles away.
March 4th, 2009 at 12:09 pmRight. Sort of the cost of living in a free and open society, right?
Kind of like living with terrorism and not turning into a police state.
Or a nation of cackling cuckolded cowards handing over our freedom and liberties in the name of “keeping safe”.
No ones safe.
We all die.
March 4th, 2009 at 12:11 pmTracy__5 Says:
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#32
“F-35s won’t stop terrorist attacks.”
Uh…yeah they will. JDAMs are very effective against terrorist camps.
March 4th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
The World Trade Center and 9/11 were “terrorist camps” , eh Sherlock ?
March 4th, 2009 at 12:11 pmTracy__5 Says:
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#33
“Fcuking Monopoly money, nuttin’ butt.”
Isn’t that what the entire stimulus bill is being funded by?
March 4th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
Did you make sure you thanked your retarded simian hero and his 8 godawful years as president for that , tool ?
March 4th, 2009 at 12:11 pmI don;t have the link but a while back I read that F-22’s were briefly deployed over Iraq, but they found they couldn’t rally use it.
March 4th, 2009 at 12:11 pmThe F-22 isn’t just a fighter,it’s also a flying network hub/router jam packed with all kinds of sensors.
Apparently many of its sensors were overwhelmed by the electronic clutter in Iraq.
With no air opponents and with its electronics suite half -blind and confused, the F-22 had no mission.
Sorry, but I have to respond to this. While your heart is in the right place, and the basic point is valid, this is a MYTH. It did NOT take us six months to re-tool our factories at the beginning of WWII. We did not go from a standing start to a military industrial powerhouse in six months.
Actually, the largest (at that time) peacetime military buildup in our history was taking place during the prior 2-3 years BEFORE we entered the war. In April 1940 we passed a naval appropriations budget calling for 12 new fleet carriers (the Essex class carriers). This was more than a year and a half before we entered the war. There was a similar Army expansion during the same time frame, and a smaller expansion 6-8 months prior to that. The largest peacetime military maneuvers we held were during the summer BEFORE we entered WWII with a multi-corps level set of wargames across several states in the south.
So no, we didn’t magically go from nothing to everything in no time.
All that being said, the fact that we are currently spending nearly half of the world’s total military budget says more than anything else. The next 5 biggest spenders are mostly our allies, and none spends more than 6 percent of the total. Whether we need an F-22 or not, personally, I think we’d be safe enough spending “Only” 4 times the next biggest spender. . . which would be a cut of about 40% from what we currently spend.
It’s painful to think we’d just flush all the development that went into the F-22, but we need to get a handle on this and stop acting like we need to be an armed camp. Somehow the rest of the world seems happy not completely dominating everyone else. Maybe we should consider the POSSIBILITY that not being able to physically dominate everyone else might still allow us to live happy and productive lives. . . you know, like EVERYONE ELSE DOES!
And, of course, we’re not able to physically dominate everyone else as it is, so why are we spending all this again? I forget.
March 4th, 2009 at 12:12 pmIsn’t that what the entire stimulus bill is being funded by?
Don’t forget you’re favorite recent endeavor, IRAQ.
Who paid for that fiasco, which, DID NOTHING but dig a deeper hole which must now be filled.
DO TRY AND USE A REARVIEW MIRROR ONCE IN A WHILE, PAL.
March 4th, 2009 at 12:12 pmJDAMs are very effective against terrorist camps.
Really?
’cause I thought we’d been using air strikes in Afghanistan and Iraq for some time now… hasn’t really done the trick.
Also, that would very rarely be the mission of an F-35 and would almost never be the mission of an F-22… you know that, Tracy.
Those kind of strikes (terrorist camps in remote areas) have almost universally been delivered by cruise missiles or drones… cheaper, less risk.
Creepy for sure, but less risky.
Another reason the Air Force wants to inflate the role of the F-22… the Navy and Drones now do all the heavy lifting in stand-off strikes.
March 4th, 2009 at 12:12 pmtwacy,
Without a foundation(standard) for money(gold), IT’S ALL MONOPOLY.
**POOF**
March 4th, 2009 at 12:14 pmAwake yet?
Tracy__5 Says:
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“Awake yet?”
Well awake, but apparently Obama is asleep.
March 4th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Claims a backer of the president who spent the most vacation time ever while in office ………..
March 4th, 2009 at 12:18 pmTracy_5 says:
Ummm, F-35s are about as useful at stopping terrorists as B-52s bombing the hell out the Ho Chi Minh Trail were at stopping the Viet Cong.
March 4th, 2009 at 12:19 pm…and wedding parties, and family reunions, and houses full of we-don’t-know-who…
which makes them great terrorist recruitment tools.
too bad the ’22’s can’t fly in a war zone because their electronics crash when exposed to other military electronics.
but i’m sure the 35’s will be way better, because we’ll have spent way more on them, which is always really good to do.
watch out, Canada!! we got your number!!
March 4th, 2009 at 12:20 pmYou’re missing the point Tracy.
The F-22 has no mission. Your suggestion of substituting the F-35 confirms this.
Air Superiority is no longer really an issue, thanks to your brothers AWACS and F-15’s and F-18 firing missiles from miles away.
The F-35 is being re-worked as a ground attack vehicle but again, no real need, no real mission.
HT is correct. We should be concerned about this drone development. But we should not build the Air Force useless fighters…
March 4th, 2009 at 12:23 pmWell awake, but apparently Obama is asleep.
Bid twacy goodnight, this is the best he’ll have to offer all day.
Too bad I guess, you should never deliver your “ender” so early in the game.
March 4th, 2009 at 12:23 pm>Supreme Court Rejects Limits on Drug Lawsuits
I’m glad they ruled the way they did but I dont by any means like the nearly precedent establishing dicta that all the FDA has to do to invalidate stonger state guidelines is consider and reject stronger warnings themselves… it opens the door to one crooked administration quickly and permanently neutering alot of state protections by having an FDA that was as much of a corrupt joke as the EPA was under bush (not that the FDA was much better under him, mind you)
March 4th, 2009 at 12:25 pmGet educated about the F-35’s estimated time of arrival… we’ll be calling in Predators, not F-35’s.
March 4th, 2009 at 12:26 pmSorry.
Thinkaboutit:
With drones and the “fly-by-wire”, remote safety they offer, you could actually have Nugent-ites, adolescent video-game obsessed kids playing “wargames” online with actually artillery and death played out in reality on the other end of the World.
A “web-deathsquad” of innocent, cowardly infantrymen, if you will.
In other words, a Neocon’s wet-dream.
scary
March 4th, 2009 at 12:28 pm“very much in need of”
on which front?
March 4th, 2009 at 12:37 pmthe f22 is a great stealth fighter that will never be detected by the enemy because … it stays on the ground. this is pathetic, paying billions for a fighter that the air force is not using.
March 4th, 2009 at 12:37 pmThe U.S. Marines are very much in need of a reliable VTOL/STOL aircraft considering the Harrier isn’t.
And they’ll probably get all 340 F-35B’s that they want. I just don’t see a real role for them that often… i see the Predators/Apaches filling that.
How often have the Marines used those Harriers?
March 4th, 2009 at 12:43 pmThe load capability
It’s the cost difference- not the load capability.
March 4th, 2009 at 12:43 pmTracy__5 Says:
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#62
“scary”
Don’t worry they wouldn’t even waste a practice bomb on you.
March 4th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
As if they would on a chickenhawk like you ?
March 4th, 2009 at 12:47 pmTracy__5 Says:
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#65
“this is pathetic, paying billions for a fighter that the air force is not using.”
The U.S. Airforce should use the ones they have strictly as a deterrant on the battle field. If the enemy thinks that F-22s are even in the area they won’t even think about sending up their own. Keep the ones we have and don’t build any more.
March 4th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
Relying on your non-existent military training and career to form that brilliant battle plan there , Patton ?
March 4th, 2009 at 12:48 pmThe Industrial Military Complex is bankrupting the USA. It will happen sooner than you think, especially with Obama escalating the Afghanistan War and pissing people off in Pakistan. The Terrorist attack on Cricket players this week is a ‘blow back’ of these kind of policy.
March 4th, 2009 at 12:49 pmThis money would be better spent doing something about the problems along the border of Mexico and the US if they really want to keep America ’safe’ and F-22’s wouldnt be useful.
March 4th, 2009 at 12:49 pmAnd they better not try. If they do they’ll find me heavily armed and drunk to high heavens. That just isn’t a safe combo.
March 4th, 2009 at 12:53 pmUh…yeah they will. JDAMs are very effective against terrorist camps. -=T5=-
Well, JDAMS can be dropped without a F-22..and I fail to see JDAMS would be used against a small group of terrorists, such as Atta. This is not a conventional war and it cant be fought with conventional and expensive jets or guided bombs.
March 4th, 2009 at 12:56 pmdeutschbag
March 4th, 2009 at 12:57 pmMilitary Idustrial Complex does not produce any goods for the economy. What they produce is spendable. The Tax payers money would be of a lot better use in infrastructure, education and health, which in turn would estimulate the crippling US’s economy. Instead, the Pentagon is spending money figuring out expensive toys for unrealistic wars. The US spend more money in ‘defense’ than the whole world’s defense budget. It does not produce a healthy economy. Osama Bin Laden is loving it! They are bleedin the USA as they did to the USRR in the late 80’s and early 90’s. What is amazing is how little the US/Pentagon learns with history…
March 4th, 2009 at 12:59 pmAn F-22 in the area wont stop them from sending up SAMs T5
March 4th, 2009 at 12:59 pm…not to mention, that on 9/11, the supposed invincible barrier (NORAD) failed miserably. That is, if they actually really ‘failed’!
March 4th, 2009 at 1:01 pmTracy__5 Says:
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#71
“As if they would on a chickenhawk like you ?”
I support their missions…unlike yourself. Why would they have a beef with me?
March 4th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
Cheerleading and worshipping the moronic decisions made by an unintelligible , dishonest nitwit is not considered “supporting the troops” , jackass………
March 4th, 2009 at 1:03 pmTracy__5 Says:
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#73
“Relying on your non-existent military training and career to form that brilliant battle plan there , Patton ?”
Just educating ignorant people with the BASICS…like yourself.
March 4th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
You believe you’re “educating” others with a moronic and ignorant opinion on a subject you have absolutely not the slightest clue about ?
That’s pretty funny………
March 4th, 2009 at 1:06 pmRight. You and about 100 million other Americans.
Seems we’re all ready to fight to the last man to keep our rights to own guns and get all liquored up.
But for some reason that courage doesn’t seem to extend to our rights and freedoms under the constitution for things like “Habeus Corpus”, which is the cornerstone of our democracy.
For some reason, all someone has to do is say “terrorist”, and we just hand them right over with little more than a whimper.
March 4th, 2009 at 1:08 pm>I support their missions…
so if president obama sends them on some peacekeeping missions to rwanda at the behest of the U.N., you’d support that, right?
March 4th, 2009 at 1:10 pmTracy__5 Says:
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#86
“Cheerleading and worshipping the moronic decisions made by an unintelligible , dishonest nitwit is not considered “supporting the troops” ,”
Petraus was none of those things you cite. The morons were the ones who said wouldn’t suceed…including Obama.
March 4th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
What exactly has Petraus “succeeded” in doing ?
Are we out of Iraq ? How many people have perished over a lie ?
You call that “success” , you Chimpy nut hugging imbecile ?
March 4th, 2009 at 1:11 pmThey are very effective is the intelligence as to their location is accurate. -=T5=-
The point was Atta was in the US and using a JDAM wouldnt be feasible
“This is not a conventional war and it cant be fought with conventional and expensive jets or guided bombs.” -=X=-
I agree but we need ALL of he tools to fight it and considering we are STILL not allowed to enter Pakistan they are about all we have that works. -=T5=-
Drones have gone into Pakistan and have fired missiles
March 4th, 2009 at 1:12 pm>The morons were the ones who said
>wouldn’t suceed…including Obama.
So you consider “sucees” (you spelling) in iraq to be a government that gives a royal, public welcome to iranian heads of state and who has a constitution that says “no law shall contradict islam”?
If an islamic theocracy friendly to Iran is how you define “sucees” in Iraq I think we should have saved our money and stuck with the failure of a dictator we armed and allies ourselves with for so long..
March 4th, 2009 at 1:13 pm>Absolutely.
god your such a liar…
March 4th, 2009 at 1:14 pmDropping bombs on Tora Bora didnt kill Bin Laden, dropping bombs in Gaza didnt destroy Hamas. Dropping bombs, lots of them, didnt destroy the Vietcong. Drombing bombs in Iraq didnt stop insurgents.
March 4th, 2009 at 1:15 pmTracy__5 Says:
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#87
“You believe you’re “educating” others with a moronic and ignorant opinion on a subject you have absolutely not the slightest clue about ?”
Try and debunk what I have stated twit.
March 4th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
Tracy__5 Says:
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#65
“this is pathetic, paying billions for a fighter that the air force is not using.”
The U.S. Airforce should use the ones they have strictly as a deterrant on the battle field. If the enemy thinks that F-22s are even in the area they won’t even think about sending up their own. Keep the ones we have and don’t build any more.
March 4th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
Those F-22’s sure were a tremendous deterrent to those COMMERCIAL AIRPLANES on 9/11 , weren’t they , stupid ass ?
March 4th, 2009 at 1:16 pmTracy__5 Says:
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#93
“What exactly has Petraus “succeeded” in doing ?”
In allowing Obama to get our troops out of Iraq with a good deal of confidence that a civil war won’t ensue!
“Are we out of Iraq ?”
Not quite.
March 4th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
If we aren’t out of Iraq , you have no idea (as you’ve shown repeatedly on this site , along with the moronic administration that you still adore) , what will occur there in the future.
BTW
Petraus had absolutely nothing to do with the Sunni awakening , you typical Chimpy ball mongering revisionist loser ………….
March 4th, 2009 at 1:20 pm>No you are the liar.
What am I lying about? The fact your ethics and indignities shift in the political wind? So what you’re saying is that you’re a good little german who would support ANY use of military force by your leader, at ANY time, for ANY reason? or are there exceptions? if so, what are they?
March 4th, 2009 at 1:20 pm>Petraus had absolutely nothing to do
> with the Sunni awakening
weeelll..actually, the millions of american taxpayer dollars betrayus gave thier leaders did do something to “awake” the sunnis pleasant feelings toward us. but then again, we’re arguing with a group of people who think paying off foreigners to stop killing our troops is a sign of a brilliant military mind but would have hystrionics and turn into little mcveighs if our government even contemplated giving one ameircan penny to illegal aliens to bribe them to stop trying to cross our borders…
theyd rather give 300$ a month to foreigners to with american blood on thier hands than give one penny to a hungry american child..
March 4th, 2009 at 1:26 pmTracy__5 Says:
——————————————————————————–
“Those F-22’s sure were a tremendous deterrent to those COMMERCIAL AIRPLANES on 9/11 , weren’t they , stupid ass ?”
You truely are clueless. The first operational F-22 didn’t come on a line untill 2005 idiot. Go back to sleep and/or smoke some more dope.
March 4th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
So , we had no other fighter jets on 9/11 , eh dipshit ?
Stop with your moronic parsing ; the only ones who are intimidated by pseudo-macho displays of military force are little GOP backing pansy chickenhawks like yourself ……..
March 4th, 2009 at 1:26 pm>Go back to sleep and/or smoke some more dope.
Sounds like a plan…do us a favor and go back to jacking off to an issue of “guns n ammo” while wearing that Patton outfit and a pair of your moms nicest panties.
March 4th, 2009 at 1:29 pmTracy__5 Says:
——————————————————————————–
#103
“If we aren’t out of Iraq , you have no idea (as you’ve shown repeatedly on this site , along with the moronic administration that you still adore) , what will occur there in the future.”
So we should stay?
“Petraus had absolutely nothing to do with the Sunni awakening ”
And the Sunni awakening isn’t the sole reason the surge succeded.
March 4th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
No
We shouldn’t stay ; nor should we ever have been there in the 1st place , Chimpy tool.
The Sunni awakening isn’t the sole reason the surge succeded ; but it’s the biggest reason by far , stupid ass……
March 4th, 2009 at 1:30 pm>Sunni awakening
ah yes…”awakening”….”awakening” iraqis with millions of american taxpayer dollars = brilliant military strategy….
“awakening” poor americans with similar amounts of money = socialism
aint it great to be republican..?
March 4th, 2009 at 1:34 pmHaving pallets of cash distributed in my neighborhood would certainly “awaken” my neighbors and I. You might even say we’d be…stimulated.
March 4th, 2009 at 1:35 pmTracy__5 Says:
You would be begging for mercy like a little winnie if a soldier or riot policeman had a rifle in your face.
Now the true authoritarian colors come out. Fantasize much?
The only thing fascists like you are good for is fertilizing daisies and greasing tank treads.
March 4th, 2009 at 1:38 pmTracy__5 Says:
——————————————————————————–
#106
“So , we had no other fighter jets on 9/11 , eh dipshit ?”
Yes we did, just not the ones you obtusely thought we did.
“Stop with your moronic parsing ”
With a military speaking clueless person such as yourself its necessary.
“the only ones who are intimidated by pseudo-macho displays of military force are little GOP backing pansy chickenhawks like yourself ……..”
You would be begging for mercy like a little winnie if a soldier or riot policeman had a rifle in your face.
March 4th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Some little GOP chickenshit chickenhawk , who has to rely solely on a family member for any and all relevant info pertaining to fighter jets , is trying to claim unmatched knowledge on all things military ?
ROFLMAO.You are truly pathetic.
BTW
You have no idea who I am , or what I have done , or whose ass I’ve kicked.
My claim of you and your ilk , stands as stated ……….TRACY
March 4th, 2009 at 1:41 pmHave you served? No? Nuff said.
March 4th, 2009 at 1:43 pmTracy__5 Says:
That is why the air defences are taken out before airstrikes are sent in.
So… correct me if I’m wrong here… but you’d need to send missiles to destroy the air defenses in order to open up the possibilities of sending air strikes with F35s… which are apparently needed because missiles wouldn’t work against the targets…
Or else you would need to send in some ground troops to the terrorist camps so they could destroy the air defenses, and then get them out so you could send the F35s in to attack the terrorists camps which the ground troops had just attacked.
I still fail to see the need for F35s in those scenarios.
March 4th, 2009 at 1:45 pmTracy__5 Says:
——————————————————————————–
#107
“Traceeeeee “thinks” she’s an expert on military matters…”
Far more than you are.
March 4th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
Based upon what ? Your “word” ? (the “word” of a Chimpy backer ; that’s worth less than used toilet paper)
And because a supposed member of your family is in the military ?
What kind of a moronic jerkoff are you ?
Does that make Derek Jeter’s mother a baseball EXPERT ?
You’re fu(king pathetic and a colossal imbecile.
March 4th, 2009 at 1:47 pmBuilding weapons just for the sake of doing something is a terrible way to stimulate the economy. The money that could go what are ultimately disposable weapons systems would be better spent on technologies like green energy that will help secure America’s security in the future by reducing our reliance on foreign powers. Or on infrastructure that will be used for generations to come.
March 4th, 2009 at 1:50 pmThe Bush administration did not use jets to stop the 9/11 hijackers—even though they had up to one hour and forty minutes.
180,000 have died in the US every ten years due to us not having universal healthcare—-like every other developed country in the world. It would also save us over $250 billion every year, administratively alone.
March 4th, 2009 at 1:50 pmawaken my neighbors and I
ME (objective case)
March 4th, 2009 at 1:53 pmOkay, I’ll bite. Whose ass have you kicked?
March 4th, 2009 at 1:55 pmMike Tyson kicked a lot of ass in his time. Maybe we should let him decide.
March 4th, 2009 at 1:59 pmTracy__5 Says:
——————————————————————————–
#117
“Some little GOP chickenshit chickenhawk , who has to rely solely on a family member for any and all relevant info pertaining to fighter jets ”
I knew about the “fighter jet” thing with out any input from my brother. It’s called reading.
You have no idea who I am , or what I have done , or whose ass I’ve kicked.”
You couldn’t kick you own ass pansy. You seem to be another another talker like Bartlee, Debs, and RHF.
March 4th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Oh , so your “reading” about fighter jets makes you superior in all military knowledge ?
Are you retarded ?
BTW
Your last statement was another projection of yourself , thrown onto me (again).
You’re pathetic , and there is no doubt that I would knock you on your rube b1tch ass without question or problem , TRACY ; chickenhawks , of which you are one , genuinely tend to be enormous pansies.
Just like your 2 heroes , Chimpy and Cheney………
March 4th, 2009 at 1:59 pmThe summer of 1992 (well after the collapse of the Soviet Union) GHW Bush said we needed 175 Stealth bombers at a cost of $2.2 billion each. We didn’t buy them and I don’t think we suffered for it.
March 4th, 2009 at 2:05 pmWhile I know nothing of the relative merits of these two aircraft, I do know that a lot of money is wasted on defense contracts due to DOD’s inability to hold contractors feet to the fire and demand the performance contracted for. I have high hopes for a better procurement process.
March 4th, 2009 at 2:07 pmTracy__5 Says:
——————————————————————————–
#128
“Based upon what ? Your “word” ?”
Based upon the fact that you or ANYONE here has yet to refute anything I have stated in regards to the military systems discussed here. Take a shot…for once.
March 4th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
Who said anything about “military systems” , pansy ?
You responded that you were more knowledgeable in all “military matters” , dipshit ……..And it’s obvious that you simply ARE NOT
March 4th, 2009 at 2:08 pmTracy__5 Says:
——————————————————————————–
#142
Oh , so your “reading” about fighter jets makes you superior in all military knowledge ?”
Of course not…just when talking to you. Belac is the only one here, other than myself, that has talked somewhat intelligently about this subject.
You’re pathetic , and there is no doubt that I would knock you on your rube b1tch ass without question or problem ,”
You have said that before and yet to either deliver or set up the opportunity. When is it going to happen?
March 4th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
You claimed that the mere existence/sight of F-22’s is an effective deterrent ; you have been proven wrong.
So keep talking more of your delusional and stupid shit.
And I’m in Texas every year to catch a Cowboy’s game ; if you like , I’ll gladly relieve you of the last (stained) tooth in your otherwise empty head , TRACY………..
March 4th, 2009 at 2:13 pmTracy__5 Says:
——————————————————————————–
Who said anything about “military systems” , pansy ?”
OK…anything related to the military discussed in this thread.
“You responded that you were more knowledgeable in all “military matters” ”
You are a liar. Cite it with a quote.
March 4th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
Tracy__5 Says:
——————————————————————————–
#107
“Traceeeeee “thinks” she’s an expert on military matters…”
Far more than you are.
March 4th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
Tell us how “great” Chimpy was as president ; you gonna’ claim to have read all about presidential history , too , assh0le ?
Typical lying GOP suckhole……..
March 4th, 2009 at 2:15 pmTracy__5 Says:
You need to take out the air defences so that the F-35s can go in to take our other targets without the threat of being shot at.
[...]
Terrorist camps are highly unlikely to be defended by a SAM site(s).
I fail to see why these targets need air strikes by aircraft when it could be done with cheaper missiles.
It’s like buying lots of new unwieldy hammers and then trying to nail things down when glue is cheaper and more practical. Plus you’ve already have tons of other hammers at your disposal already.
March 4th, 2009 at 2:17 pmIs Tracist__5 acting tough again from the safety of it’s keyboard?
March 4th, 2009 at 2:20 pmAny boasting of being colorblind while having a “black” friend?
Thinking that one kind of innovation is going to win a war is stupid at best. Our military is broken, and one contract is not going to fix it.
March 4th, 2009 at 2:30 pmTracy_5 is the most brilliant military intellect on the intertubes. Tracy_5 KNOWS whereof she speaks, as the truth falls from her lips like shimmering pearls of lucid wisdom.
All fall to their knees and grovel at the altar that is the KNOWLEDGE of Tracy_5. (background chanting of “Om maha tracy_5″ begins in the background).
If only Tracy_5 could set all policy — like a loving totalitarian benevolent dictator, with a tough-love “bootstrap” policy to teach one and all how to pull themselves up. See — EVERYONE can be in the top 5% of earners. Utopia awaits those who follow the greatness of Tracy_5. Utopia and lots of military weponry that really works, not just sits around useless. And Tracy_5 has the balls to test them all to see that they work, so all our enemies will fear us, and all our allies will love us (because if they don’t then they are our enemies).
Tracy_5 (sucks) ROCKS!!!!!!
March 4th, 2009 at 2:31 pmTracy_5 has balls.
March 4th, 2009 at 2:33 pmWho is debs?
Tracist__5 was threatening a “woman”?
That’s not something I’d particularly be proud of, Tracist.
March 4th, 2009 at 2:35 pmIs Tracy_5 a strapping Texas transvestite mysoginist?
March 4th, 2009 at 2:38 pm(what a rare find SHE is)
Tracy__5 Says:
——————————————————————————–
“You claimed that the mere existence/sight of F-22’s is an effective deterrent ; you have been proven wrong.”
If you are referring to 9/11 planes not being stopped, even thought some idiot…that would be you, thought F-22s were operational in 2001 then what are you referring to?
“And I’m in Texas every year to catch a Cowboy’s game ; if you like , I’ll gladly relieve you of the last (stained) tooth in your otherwise empty head , TRACY………..”
And this entire past season you never once offer a meeting in Irving eventhough we had this same type of discussion last year?
March 4th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
How markedly better are the F-22’s than their original inception ?
And are they in any way an upgrade over the fighters that existed in 2001 , GI Joke ?
With our ENTIRE armament available , that didn’t stop COMMERCIAL AIRLINERS from being used as weapons , stupid bastard ; who is going to be intimidated then , as you so laughably (and stupidly) claimed , by F-22’s ?
And when were you ever on here during the football season around Thanksgiving ?
I don’t recall you showing your stupid name even once after I mentioned I was going to the Thanksgiving Cowboy’s game , you colossal pansy ; you turned tail and ran , just like you lied in your previous post , you pathetic piece of shit……..
March 4th, 2009 at 2:38 pmTracist__5,
March 4th, 2009 at 2:40 pmYou sure?
Tracy__5 Says:
——————————————————————————–
#152
“Tell us how “great” Chimpy was as president ”
He wasn’t a great president. BTW where is your quote liar?
March 4th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
Ummmm……..And you claim to be a “reader” , huh dipshit ?
Even RHF has a post above that states you’re a lying sack of shit ……You’re a joke
March 4th, 2009 at 2:41 pmCageyCretin Says:
——————————————————————————–
Tracy_5 has balls.
March 4th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
Yeah
Unfortunately , they’re hanging from his chin
March 4th, 2009 at 2:43 pmMCMetal Says:
CageyCretin Says:
Tracy_5 has balls.
Yeah
Unfortunately , they’re hanging from his chin
Awwwww…. now, why’d you have to go and bring up Limbaugh? He was absent on this thread. Or are those Steele Balls?(ooohh. the Tracist won’t like that).
Must go all, have fun. Don’t be too mean to Tracy_5 — she’s got some “female problems”….
March 4th, 2009 at 2:47 pmYes.
March 4th, 2009 at 2:57 pmCNBC is in a race with FOX News to reach the slimy bottom of the rightwing reactionary corporatist agitation-propaganda barrel. Who the frig is Donny Deutsch? Some GOP-Likudnik dunderhead trying to hang on to his ill-gotten shekels.
====
March 4th, 2009 at 3:03 pmTracy__5 Says:
——————————————————————————–
March 4th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
You still haven’t given any legitimate explanation (and can’t) for your stupid claim that having F-22’s is a deterrent in any way.
As for your moronic statement about my being a liar , you’ve proven you have ZERO credibility , as you’ve already lied and have refused to acknowledge it.
BTW
You want me to recall a post of mine from some thread from over 4 months ago ??????????
You can’t even remember lying outright an hour ago , and you’re asking that ?
Plus , you admitted you weren’t around during the Thanksgiving time period , yet you’re insisting I didn’t write what I claimed to have ?
Yeah , good luck convincing others of that , liar……
You’re a sorry little pissant tool…….
March 4th, 2009 at 3:05 pmTracy__5 Says:
——————————————————————————–
#170
“Ummmm……..And you claim to be a “reader” ”
Cite the quote boy.
March 4th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
I already have , lying little GOP pansy ………
March 4th, 2009 at 3:07 pmTracy__5 Says:
——————————————————————————–
March 4th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
Wow , you’re a moron.
You made a claim , and are now back-tracking , saying “Say for instance that we got into an armed conventional war with Iran. If we had our F-22s in the area, Iran would not even attempt to send their fighters up to engage unless they just wanted to waste a few.” ; that simply shows you’re making up the bullshit you’re posting.
You don’t KNOW what Iran or anyone else would do , for that matter…..
Furthermore , I never claimed you specifically were on the thread where I announced I would be going to the Thanksgiving Cowboy’s game , dipshit ; I just recall you weren’t around AT ALL after I posted that , and certainly not in the days leading to my departure.
And you lied about never having claimed you had superior knowledge in military matters , LIAR.
And yes , I have ……………
March 4th, 2009 at 3:28 pmTracy__5 Says:
“How markedly better are the F-22’s than their original inception ?”
They have exceeded their capability expectations. Their cost however makes them not worth the money because if a few of them go down due to repairs, with their limited numbers, it puts the commanders in bad situation.
This just proves your ignorance and colossal idiocy.
If even we here at TP know this , you believe our enemies out there , DON’T KNOW ?
And who is going to be deterred or intimidated by a faulty jet that we use , that is ridiculously expensive and time-consuming to repair that isn’t overly-abundant in number at present ?
Sheesh , you are a huge fool………..
March 4th, 2009 at 3:33 pmTracy__5 Says:
——————————————————————————–
March 4th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
Haven’t I slapped you around enough and revealed the stupid lying little pansy you truly are enough that you would realize you should not mention me any further , shithead ?
Stop posting your utter nonsense , GI Joke ; you know as much about military matters as you do about sound government policies………
March 4th, 2009 at 4:12 pmAnd you lied about never having claimed you had superior knowledge in military matters , LIAR.”
When it comes to discussing military aircraft such as this thread is specifically about I have yet to see demonstrate an ounce of knowledge on the subject.
That is not the issue , jerkoff.
You stupidly claimed to possess superior knowledge in all MILITARY MATTERS , then posted that you never made that specific claim , and asked that it be proven , which I HAVE , MULTIPLE TIMES.
So , you have yet to see demonstrate an ounce of honesty , never mind knowledge , LIAR ………..
The rest of your useless post is just useless conjecture , mindless opinion , and excuse-making for chickening out ….
You sorry little pansy.
March 4th, 2009 at 4:20 pmTracy__5 Says:
——————————————————————————–
#188
“Haven’t I slapped you around enough….”
You haven’t demonstated that you even know what the capabilities of the F-22 are much less your cluelessness about ANY military weapons systems.
March 4th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
Repeating posted stats/data on a particular plane doesn’t remove the sheer ignorance you have displayed in (lyingly and stupidly) claiming to be more knowledgeable on all “military matters” , pansy rube ………..
And nothing else you have posted has proven your lying contention , which you also denied committing , jerkoff…….
March 4th, 2009 at 4:23 pmTracy__5 Says:
——————————————————————————–
#191
“You stupidly claimed to possess superior knowledge in all MILITARY MATTERS”
When it comes to YOU and your lack thereof absolutely. Again you have demonstrated ZERO knowledge.
“then posted that you never made that specific claim”
My claim was that the few F-22s we have could take out the entire Iranian airforce and then cited a link that proved it according to military experts. Do you think that those Iranian F-14s would do the job?
March 4th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
And you still continue to lie ………Your original (stupid) post NEVER made any mention of a specific country or group , let alone Iran , rube ; just that it would be a deterrant (which is incorrectly spelled BTW , and intimates that it’s applicable to EVERY group and country).
And you don’t know more about all military matters than I do , and claiming that is worth about spit in a cup ; which is equal to your useless existence …….And I never made mention of anyone or any country , let alone brought up Iran.
March 4th, 2009 at 4:35 pmTracy__5 Says:
——————————————————————————–
#193
“Repeating posted stats/data on a particular plane doesn’t remove the sheer ignorance you have displayed in (lyingly and stupidly) claiming to be more knowledgeable on all “military matters” ”
What ignorance…specifically? I never claimed to be more knowledgeable on “all military matters”. When is comes to the subject we have been discussing for the last two hours however, i.e. military aircraft and their capabilities, I absolutely have more knowledge than you do.
March 4th, 2009 at 4:31 pm
Liar ……….I even posted where you (stupidly) made that claim , after you lyingly stated you never did …….
You know nothing , except how to lie and post nonsensical bullshit and your useless opinion on what serves as a “deterrant” to perspective enemies of the US.
March 4th, 2009 at 4:39 pmWhy would we wish to take out the entire Iranian Airforce?
March 4th, 2009 at 4:42 pmdbadass Says:
——————————————————————————–
Why would we wish to take out the entire Iranian Airforce?
March 4th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
Because Tracy , the Red Baron , claims it ……..
March 4th, 2009 at 4:43 pmI wonder what Iranians think serves as a “deterrant” to perspective enemies of Iran. Seems to me some nuclear warheads would be a reasonable idea for a sovereign nation with powerful potential enemies…
March 4th, 2009 at 4:44 pm#193
Tracy, the real issue with the F-22 Rapture is that it costs way too much for any benefit it provides. It is indeed a superb weapons system designed for the air superiority environment against a comparable foe. Unfortunately, by the time it might be needed to engage any such potential adversary, other weapons systems will have evolved to make it virtually obsolete. Given your great knowledge of aerial combat, even you would acknowledge that the potential turn-rates and accelerations for armed UCAVs will make a crewed weapons system like the F-22 merely a target in the sky and then just a dark smudge. Any crewed airframe will need to keep its performance below 12g acceleration, while uncrewed system will be reaching the 30-50g range.
Your interest in Iran is interesting. Do you really think that any activity with Iran will actually be settled by aerial warfare. Iran’s major threat lies in naval sphere, with its ability to throttle the Strait of Hormuz. An air superiority fighter like the F-22 will be virtually worthless for such an effort. Any impulse to use it will simply demonstrate that old aphorism “When all you’ve got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.”
We would spend our money better on developing hypersonic cruise missiles which could support the recon drones and special forces who will be hunting our real enemies.
March 4th, 2009 at 4:45 pmIf it weren’t for the F22, you would all have satellite wirelss connectivity by now. That’s what Lockheed was working on before they got the F22 contract, kids…
March 4th, 2009 at 4:54 pmTracy__5 Says:
——————————————————————————–
March 4th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
Hey moron
Read your entire last quote to yourself , and then the rest of your stupid post , and if you can’t spot your lie and your glaring ignorance of military matters (especially military preparedness and planning) , you might think about purchasing Hooked On Phonics…………
And , once again , stop inserting Iran into the argument ; you didn’t specify Iran until around 2 to 3 hours later.
They are immaterial to your original (stupid) claim , and you can’t try and change the nature of your ignorance and arrogance after the fact , by trying to use them specifically now………
March 4th, 2009 at 5:04 pmTracy__5 Says:
——————————————————————————–
#196
“Liar ……….I even posted where you (stupidly) made that claim”
Paste the quote. You haven’t done it yet!
“You know nothing”
About miltary aircraft…yes…I do.
March 4th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
I already did it over an hour ago , lying rube ……….
And no , you do not ; you don’t know half of what you believe you do.
And that still doesn’t mean you know anything about military matters , which you lyingly claimed you know MORE about ….
You simply DO NOT , because you pushed a false and phony premise originally , and are now trying to use Iran , and Iran alone , as the singular example after you generalized and didn’t specify anything from the outset……….
March 4th, 2009 at 5:08 pmAbout miltary aircraft…yes…I do.
— Okay so let’s assume that is true. What is it that you know about Iran and from where do you draw this knowledge base?
March 4th, 2009 at 5:10 pmTracy__5 Says:
——————————————————————————–
#204
“They are immaterial to your original (stupid) claim”
So where is the lie in my original claim?
“your glaring ignorance of military matters (especially military preparedness and planning)”
What specifically?
March 4th, 2009 at 5:09 pm
Who is it that views the F-22’s as a “deterrant” to anything , you moron ?
You made that unsubstantiated claim with no proof whatsoever , just your hick opinion ; not exactly a credible “source” there , rube …….Which goes to show you that you know nothing about military preparedness and planning if you believe your own foolish and faulty bullshit……
March 4th, 2009 at 5:13 pmTracy__5 Says:
——————————————————————————–
#206
“I already did it over an hour ago”
Where??!!
“And no , you do not ; you don’t know half of what you believe you do.”
Cite ANY inaccuracies.
March 4th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
I already posted it ; why I need post it again for your lying ass is something you need ask yourself.
I don’t make it a habit to copy and paste things of the same thing to GOP backing lying cowards.
BTW
March 4th, 2009 at 5:17 pmCopying and pasting data of a single fighter plane does not mean you know anything about other fighter planes , let alone your arrogant ass , which laughably believes you are someone with a huge fountain of knowledge on a wide variety of them ……….
I ment Iranian political thought and culture and such.
March 4th, 2009 at 5:37 pmTracy__5 Says:
——————————————————————————–
#210
“Who is it that views the F-22’s as a “deterrant” to anything”
I did (and am not an expert) as well as a few other experts in the field fool…
http://www.upi.com/ Security_Industry/ 2009/ 01/ 06/ F-22_provides_credible_deterrent_for_US/ UPI-59231231248333/ 2/
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/ article-view/ release/ 102151/ lexington-again-touts-f_22-in-deterrent-role.html
http://lexingtoninstitute.org/docs/839.pdf
March 4th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
Hey moron ……….
All 3 of those links are all from the same “source” ; a Loren B Thompson.
ONE INDIVIDUAL
That is your “few others” , you colossal imbecile ?
Holy shit , you really are a complete idiot.
March 4th, 2009 at 5:43 pmTracy__5 Says:
——————————————————————————–
#215
Trajan’s IQ is 75….probably lower.
March 4th, 2009 at 5:39 pm
That still means he exceeds yours by 50 ………
March 4th, 2009 at 5:44 pmIran: the new NeoCon boogeyman.
March 4th, 2009 at 5:53 pmYours?
—Iranian friends
March 4th, 2009 at 5:53 pmTracy__5 Says:
——————————————————————————–
“All 3 of those links are all from the same “source” ; a Loren B Thompson.”
That’s inaccurate. The PDF report was written by Dr. Rebecca Grant.
http://www.defencetalk.com/ news/ publish/ airforce/ F-22_Raptors_return_to_the_Pacific100016901.php
How many do you want?
March 4th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
Thompson is the Chief Operating Officer at the Lexington Institute , dimwit ; you believe he had no hand Grant’s “report” ?
Not even editing it ……..? Man , you’re hopeless……
March 4th, 2009 at 6:22 pmBTW Tracy
Where in your latest useless link does it echo your stupid and erroneous opinion that the F-22 is truly a “deterrant” , moron ?
March 4th, 2009 at 6:28 pmOh they are great. They offer a really interesting take on the falsehoods that have been hoisted upon the citizens of the US as to the nature of their country. It is super interesting to hear about a beautiful country with a history which makes my country’s few hundred years look like a little uppity adolescent that thinks they know everything. I love the food too. Someday I would like to travel there and really check it out first hand. I trust the nonsensical saber rattling will mellow out and those idiots that I work with that are always talking about turning the middle east into a parking lot and wiping them off the map and dumb shit like that realize how moronic and unproductive that sort of talk is
March 4th, 2009 at 6:28 pmTracy__5 Says:
——————————————————————————–
#228
“Thompson is the Chief Operating Officer at the Lexington Institute , dimwit ; you believe he had no hand Grant’s “report” ?”
Sure she did, but you were inaccurate as to the source….again.
You asked for an expert that sees that F-22 as a deterrant. I provided it and another seperate source an USAF colonel.
March 4th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
I asked for a CREDIBLE SOURCE , you moron ; not 3 from the same military propoganda group.
And which USAF colonel stated what you’re claiming , liar ?
March 4th, 2009 at 6:31 pmRube Tracy
A “deterrent option” DOES NOT indicate a fact , you moron ; in addition , where is the Colonel’s statement on how this will specifically influence Iran , dipshit ?
March 4th, 2009 at 6:43 pmTracy__5 Says:
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I asked for a CREDIBLE SOURCE , you moron ; not 3 from the same military propoganda group.”
How do you determine as if the Lexington Institute is not credible on this subject. I you have something contrary to their findings then by all means present something other than your unqualified opinion. Remember you don’t know ANYTHING about military weapons systems.
March 4th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
By virtue of the FACT that the Lexington Institute is a PARTISAN MILITARY PROPOGANDA outfit , you moron .
Just because you , a GOP and Chimpy backing stooge finds something credible or believable , doesn’t make it so ; especially when it comes to cause and effect of US military might and technology on foreign groups or nations , which you have revealed repeatedly that you know absolutely nothing about.
Get it , you pansy little dummy ?
March 4th, 2009 at 6:47 pmThat’s where you are wrong. They have plenty to say about what they see as both positve and negative about their country. They also are thoughtful enough to evaluate mine in the same reasoned manner. They are way pissed about that whole Shah thing but otherwise they are mostly just annoyed by the moronic ideas the see perpetuated in the average american joe the whatever the hell he is populace. All of them are highly educated reasonable and rational people. As to this whole frredom thing they tend to think that much of what US citizens consider freedom is sort of a fantasy as they are all well travelled and see the civil freedom of the European nations as much more free than those in the states. They tend to be really confused by why things like cell phone options are so restricted here.
March 4th, 2009 at 6:49 pmTracy__5 Says:
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A “deterrent option” DOES NOT indicate a fact ,”
According to you, an NON-EXPERT. I will go with the colonel’s and the doctor’s assessment that the F-22 is a deterrant to potential enemies.
“where is the Colonel’s statement on how this will specifically influence Iran , dipshit ?”
There isn’t one. My OPINION about the ability of the small USAF F-22 force being able to take out the Iranian airforce is based on tests done under real combat situations. I provided the link as to how superior the F-22 was against even our own aircraft like the F-15 and the F-16. If you choose to believe that it would not be possible then that is your UNQUALIFIED opinion. If you were to cite something that could prove OR even begin to counter otherwise then present it.
March 4th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
Wow ……..You , an ignorant and partisan GOP backing dipshit , wanting and willing to believe a paid partisan hack’s slanted opinion , along with a press-release statement made by a Colonel , who has absolutely zero credentials on the particular topic , are who you want to base your still unproven (and stupid) original statement on.
What a complete shock…………
BTW
You can’t “simulate” invading a foreign nation and theoretically eliminating their entire air force , pansy.
March 4th, 2009 at 7:11 pmTracy__5 Says:
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March 4th, 2009 at 7:05 pm
Simply put, said Pierre Sprey and James P. Stevenson, the F-22 Raptor is shaping up to be the Sturmvogel of the 21st century: a dazzling piece of technology that fatally ignores some of the unbending realities of aerial combat.
On surface, the Raptor debate ended six months ago. After years of controversy, the Air Force and Defense Department reached a final agreement on the Raptor program, with DoD and Congress approving full production of the stealth fighter while capping the program at 183 aircraft, a 50-percent reduction of the 381 planes that the service had long said it needed at a minimum.
(For Tyndall Air Force Base, where the Raptor pilot training program is located, this has meant a reduction in training squadrons from two to one, with 29 of the sleek fighters to be used in preparing pilots for combat units.)
But to Sprey, a founding member of the so-called “fighter mafia” group that during the 1960s and 1970s ramrodded the F-15, F-16 and A-10 programs into being despite fierce internal opposition, and military author Stevenson, who has written extensively on the Navy’s F/A-18 and A-12 fighters, the Air Force has created a major crisis in its future combat capability by sticking to the Raptor program.
The two analysts presented their stark findings to a symposium at the nonprofit Center for Defense Information on Friday in Washington, D.C. The two analysts provided their findings to The News Herald, and Sprey elaborated on the issues in a telephone interview.
Sprey said his briefing focused on the time-tested factors that define an effective fighter plane: (1) See the enemy first; (2) outnumber the enemy; (3) outmaneuver the enemy to fire, and (4) kill the enemy quickly.
“The Raptor is a horrible failure on almost every one of those criteria,” Sprey said.
The stellar attribute of the F-22 — its invisibility on enemy radar due to a computer-aided stealth design — is a “myth,” Sprey said. That is because in order to locate the enemy beyond visual range, the Raptor (like every other fighter) must turn on its own radar, immediately betraying its location.
Nor is the aircraft design effective simply because its advocates insist so, Sprey said. The 1980s-era F-117 stealth fighter was supposed to be invisible too, but post-Gulf War studies showed that the aircraft had been spotted by Iraq’s ground-based radars, he said.
And in the 77-day aerial campaign against Serbia in 1999, the adversary’s “1950s-era radar” managed to locate and shoot down two F-117s, Stevenson pointed out in his presentation. The situation is actually worse today, he said, because many nations have acquired advanced missiles that can home in on radar emissions.
“Who do you want in a dark alley?” Stevenson asked. “The cop with the flashlight, or the crook with a gun that fires light-homing bullets?”
Because the Raptor ultimately ballooned into a weapon that costs $361 million per copy, even Congress could not stomach the total program cost exceeding $65 billion, Sprey said. As a result, the Air Force is now committed to fielding a fighter program that lacks sufficient numbers to prevail in a major conflict, however effective the individual aircraft may be.
“Hitler had 70 Me-262s in combat,” Sprey said. “They were crushed by the force of 2,000 inferior P-51s that the United States had in the air.”
Early reports from mock deployments of the Raptor also show a major shortfall in the fighter’s sustainability in combat, Sprey said.
“The F-16 costs one-tenth of the F-22 and flies three times as often due to the issues of stealth, complexity and maintenance affecting the Raptor,” Sprey said. Sustainability and the number of aircraft available to fight on any given day, he added, are “vastly more important” than the quality of the F-22. “You have to have numerical superiority to win.”
On the last two points, maneuverability and capability for a “quick kill,” the two analysts assert that the Raptor is inferior to the F-16 and several allied fighter designs in the crucible of “energy-maneuverability.”
“Some (experts) assert that in the next air war,” all of the radars will be off and the air war will merge to air combat maneuvering,” Stevenson observed.
The Raptor’s performance in that mode will be “disastrous,” Sprey added.
“The only thing that will bail the U.S. Air Force out of this mess is the fact that they still have a lot of F-16s in service,” Sprey said, “The day they send the F-16s to the ‘boneyard’ is the day the service becomes a non-Air Force.”
March 4th, 2009 at 7:13 pmThe above shows how much you know about “military weapons systems” , eh retarded Richenbacker ?
March 4th, 2009 at 7:17 pmTracy__5 Says:
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March 4th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
Check post #243 and then you can slink off , you unintelligible imbecile.
BTW
You can stop claiming both superior “military weapon” and “military matter” knowledge now , stupid little redneck pansy b1tch………..
March 4th, 2009 at 7:23 pmWell in their opinion.
March 4th, 2009 at 7:24 pm—
And there my friend is the key. What makes yours mine or theirs any more or any less… Well inthis case since the topic is their nation, I think I will give their opinion more cred than mine or yours but still I think you get the point.
I hope you aren’t suggesting that the general population of Iran are more any more or less educated than an those in the U.S. especially when the government controls the Iranian media.
March 4th, 2009 at 7:30 pm—
I am confused by how media ownership relates to level of education. I have several degrees yet watch neither Fox, CNN, listen to Rush nor Maddow. Whatever point you are trying to make I regret that I am missing it. Now haven’t we been told that our own media is controlled by the left or are we going to put that dumb shit on the back burner so we can argue that some other nations media is biased?
Well, this inexperienced poster would like to know: if we’re talking about using F-22’s in mountainous Iran, wouldn’t any Iranian jets likely be used as bait to bring F-22’s into a killing zone of shoulder-fired missiles? The cost of bringing down a ‘22 would become much cheaper, both in terms of men and aircraft, wouldn’t it? How many could we afford to lose in this manner?
March 4th, 2009 at 7:36 pmWhy are we even discussing Iran as potential place to blow our own little military hardon? Why not just leave Iran alone and let the region sort out whatever shit they need to sort out?
March 4th, 2009 at 7:46 pmTracy__5 Says:
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#243
So in that article by Pierre Sprey and James P. Stevenson where does it say anything about the F-22 not being a deterrant?
Now I agree with much of the article in the cost issues, but these part makes me think that these two guys are nothing but old relics who don’t want to see old horses like the F-15 and the F-16 retired….especially when Sprey says this…
“Sprey said, “The day they send the F-16s to the ‘boneyard’ is the day the service becomes a non-Air Force.”
As far as their comments about performance in combat…
“Sprey said his briefing focused on the time-tested factors that define an effective fighter plane: (1) See the enemy first; (2) outnumber the enemy; (3) outmaneuver the enemy to fire, and (4) kill the enemy quickly
“The Raptor is a horrible failure on almost every one of those criteria,” Sprey said.”
1. This is absolutely something that F-22 does better than ANY fighter we have currently have in service 2. This is unimportant in realm of MODERN combat especially when the kill ratio of the F-22 is far higher than anything in service. 3. The F-22 can outmaneuver any enemy we might encounter not to mention outrun them. 4. The kill ratio in actual tests as I cited earlier completely debunks this crap.
March 4th, 2009 at 8:32 pm
Your laughably ignorant and irrelevant opinion of Sprey and Stevenson means what , rube ?
You have proven repeatedly that you don’t know shit ; you’re going to claim to know more about military weapons than someone who helped design and build them and a military author ?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Zip it , redneck.
BTW
Where does it read that either of them claim that the F-22 is indeed a D E T E R R E N T ; especially seeing as how they’re basically bad-mouthing/criticizing it ?
PS
You sourcing Wikipedia is meaningless ; Wikipedia can be updated/tampered with by anyone , including (and especially) a moronic partisan d0uchebag such as yourself……..
I’ll believe Sprey and Stevenson over your ignorant pansy rube ass any day…………
March 4th, 2009 at 8:45 pmYour friends saying that they think their Europe is more “free” than the U.S. is a non sequitur considering it’s an opinion base on their own beliefs and culture.
—
March 4th, 2009 at 9:32 pmWhich brings us back to #247 And to think some folks would argue against the relativity of it all
Do you have a better source than actual USAF pilots who have flown both aircraft? Didn’t think so.
– Top Gun is not a primary source. It is just a lame movie with a way lot of gay overtones…
March 4th, 2009 at 10:32 pmOh I though we were talking about dumb perceptations of other nations. ‘Scuse me
March 4th, 2009 at 10:41 pm“– Top Gun is not a primary source.”
Considering Top Gun is Navy and we are talking about USAF aircraft I tend to agree.
– says the the earlier wiki referencer. Either way Tom Cruise and some aircraft mixed with a bunch of fellows all trying to outdo each other is hardly the basis for a film which interests anyone.
March 4th, 2009 at 10:50 pmTracy__5 Says:
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#252
“You have proven repeatedly that you don’t know shit ; you’re going to claim to know more about military weapons than someone who helped design and build them and a military author ?”
Amazing you cite one of those involved in the development of of the F-16, but it turns out this supposed genius was really a musician at heart! LOL!
March 4th, 2009 at 10:28 pm
Because Beethoven and Mozart weren’t geniuses , you warning label for inbreeding ?
You really have no argument , assbag ……..
BTW
There is no need to debunk your ridiculous “deterrant” claim , when that’s all you have succeeded in presenting it as ……..
PS
Taking the “word” of pilots who have piloted the F-22 in narrowly defined and used missions is akin to taking the word of a Nascar driver over that of his crew chief and all the mechanics about his car after running test laps and proclaiming he can blow away the competition in every race.
I’m sure the NASCAR analogy is something you can readily understand , being an unintelligent , arrogant , and clueless redneck rube from East Assbag , Texass………
March 4th, 2009 at 10:54 pmTracy__5 Says:
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#263
“Because Beethoven and Mozart weren’t geniuses”
Not when is comes to military aircraft.
“There is no need to debunk your ridiculous “deterrant” claim”
I cited some experts and you have not.
“Taking the “word” of pilots who have piloted the F-22 in narrowly defined and used missions is akin to taking the word of a Nascar driver over that of his crew chief and all the mechanics about his car after running test laps and proclaiming he can blow away the competition in every race”
In both cases pilots and drivers are far more reliable and believable than someone like yourself with absolutely no knowledge of military aircraft or a wanna-be jazz musician or a NASCAR crew chief who doesn’t drive the car. Only an idiot like yourself would think that the users don’t have the final say on the performance of a plane or vehicle.
March 4th, 2009 at 11:06 pm
And you’re claiming to be superior knowledge-wise in the field of military aircraft to someone who designed and built them ?????
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I always knew you were a cowardly pansy and a moron , but I didn’t know you were also delusionally insane ….Thanks for the confirmation , jerkoff.
And no , you didn’t cite “experts” ; you posted shit from a biased military propoganda company’s site , and 1 Colonel’s statement , who was not proclaimed to be any type “expert” on the particular topic.
And moron , the only “word” that matters are RESULTS ; the F-22 deter Iran out of proceeding with their nuclear ambitions , you stupid inbred rube bastard ?
BTW Nitwit
I also included the testimony of a military history author ; not exactly the same as the “word” of an unintelligent , Texass-dwelling partisan rube …………
March 4th, 2009 at 11:18 pmTracy__5 Says:
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#267
“And you’re claiming to be superior knowledge-wise in the field of military aircraft to someone who designed and built them ?????”
The parts I debunked are true….at least according to the USAF F-22 pilots my brother has had the privlege of talking to.
March 4th, 2009 at 11:33 pm
And the link to this supposed testimony is where , shitstain ?
Your brother’s “blog” ?
Boy , that’s real credible ………What a stupid little boy you truly are.
March 4th, 2009 at 11:38 pmTracy__5 Says:
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“And no , you didn’t cite “experts” ; you posted shit from a biased military propoganda company’s site , and 1 Colonel’s statement , who was not proclaimed to be any type “expert” on the particular topic.”
Yes they were experts. Just because you think that who Dr. Gran works for doesn’t fit your unqualified opinion that she is an not expert is irrelevant.
http://lexingtoninstitute.org/1291.shtml
March 4th, 2009 at 11:33 pm
And just because you claim a partisan hack who was PAID to provide a slanted opinion makes her credible , doesn’t to anyone else ; or have you forgotten your apologizing/excuse-making for the last administration , which is the worst in US history , you Chimpy nut hugging tool……..?
March 4th, 2009 at 11:41 pmTracy__5 Says:
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BTW a USAF Colonel who will be in charge of an entire squadron of F-22s qualifies under any terms as an expert on military aircraft.
March 4th, 2009 at 11:33 pm
Yeah , one who has NEVER piloted an F-22 , you stupid bastard.
Col. Ronald Banks – FLIGHT INFORMATION
Rating: Command Pilot
Flight Hours: 2,400+
Aircraft Flown: F-15A-D, T-38, T-37
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Moron
March 4th, 2009 at 11:52 pmTracy__5 Says:
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“And the link to this supposed testimony is where , shitstain ?”
Link? It’s from first hand conversations he has had with those he trained with at Tyndall, AFB.
March 4th, 2009 at 11:43 pm
Sure
Like your LIE about possessing more knowledge on military matters previously , rube ………..
March 4th, 2009 at 11:53 pmTracy__5 Says:
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#273
“And just because you claim a partisan hack who was PAID to provide a slanted opinion makes her credible”
Where is your real evidence that her opinion is slanted when you don’t know anything about military aircraft? Cite a link that refutes her knowledge or creditability in the aerospace field.
BTW the two authors you cite had absolutely nothing to do with the design of the F-22 or the F-35 and Sprey has been recording music for the last 20 years.
March 4th, 2009 at 11:49 pm
Hey moron
Are “scientists” who work for the oil companies looked upon with credibility when they give their assessments on the impact the oil industry has on the enviroment ?
And I mean by intelligent people , not ignorant , moronic , gullible GOP rubes like yourself.
WHO SHE WORKS FOR AND WITH , disqualifies her immediately ; get a clue , and stop with the same stupid type of (non)reasoning you have tried to use here regarding the horseshit Chimpy administration………..
March 4th, 2009 at 11:59 pmOh BTW Tracy (you big pansy)
Know what the “expert” you are attempting to tout’s PhD is in ?
Dr. Rebecca Grant received a PhD in INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS ; yeah , that certainly qualifies her above Sprey , who designed and built fighters , doesn’t it ?
Stupid little rube …….
March 5th, 2009 at 12:14 amTracy__5 Says:
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Again the users trump any old critic who has been “out of the loop” for the last 20 years.
http://www.military.com/ features/ 0,15240,109878,00.html
BTW was Sprey ever an actual fighter pilot?
March 5th, 2009 at 12:03 am
How many missions did Dr. Rebecca Grant or Loren B Thompson ever fly , jackass ?
How many fighters did they ever even BUILD ?
And Sprey doesn’t work nor ever did for a partisan propogandist company , you sorry little rube………
March 5th, 2009 at 12:19 amTracy__5 Says:
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#277
“Like your LIE about possessing more knowledge on military matters previously”
I have prove that one. You didn’t even know what a phased array radar is and neither did Sprey apparently.
March 5th, 2009 at 12:05 am
Looking up a particular definition doesn’t prove you’re more knowledgeable on military matters , stupid ass..
You’ve proven that you’re merely a useless , brainless little mouthpiece for the GOP and the military industry .
March 5th, 2009 at 12:19 amTracy__5 Says:
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#282
“Dr. Rebecca Grant received a PhD in INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS ; yeah , that certainly qualifies her above Sprey , who designed and built fighters , doesn’t it ?”
Citing her a was never used as a rebuttal by me as to the claims made by Sprey. Pay attention. You tried to cite him as a rebuke about my claim that the F-22 is a deterrant. I used the testimony of real pilots that have flown BOTH the F-15 and the F-22 to debunk his OLD irrelevant ass.
March 5th, 2009 at 12:20 am
LIAR
You have posted not one pilot’s TESTIMONY that has actually PILOTED the F-22 , and that referred to it as a “deterrant” , you moron ……….
I already posted the info on Col. Ronald Banks , and he has NEVER FLOWN an F-22 …….
Keep lying and digging that hole , a-hole………
March 5th, 2009 at 12:23 amA gas hog, built for a threat that will never exist, to make a bunch of greedy pigs rich and feed the egos of a bunch of overgrown children (fighter pilots)
March 5th, 2009 at 12:26 amThe noisiest aircraft I’ve ever heard, and that’s just taxiing.
Tracy__5 Says:
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#283
“How many missions did Dr. Rebecca Grant or Loren B Thompson ever fly , jackass ?”
How is that relevant? Again you cited Sprey as as a rebuttal to my claim about the F-22 being a deterrant and the article you cite said nothing about it.
And Sprey doesn’t work nor ever did for a partisan propogandist company , you sorry little rube………”
So what? This old man is a relic of the 1980s that is no longer relevant in today’s modern military circles.
March 5th, 2009 at 12:23 am
The article repeatedly had Sprey AND James P. Stevenson talking about the limitations and ineffectiveness of the F-22 ; that kind of indicates to those with brains that it isn’t as wonderful as you are stupidly trying to claim , much less a “deterrant” to anything , you stupid shit .
And it isn’t as if Sprey issued these conclusions of his a decade and a half ago , jerkoff ; and he is far more credible when it comes military fighters than the 2 bozos you’re laughably attempting to present as “proof” for your ridiculously stupid claim ……….
God , you’re a moron.
March 5th, 2009 at 12:28 amTracy__5 Says:
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#284
“Looking up a particular definition doesn’t prove you’re more knowledgeable on military matters”
When it comes to what you don’t know…it puts another nail in your coffin.
Cite what you actually know for once.
March 5th, 2009 at 12:26 am
You didn’t know it either , you dummy ; looking shit up and copying and pasting doesn’t mean you “know something” , you ignorant twit.
And pansy Tracy ; the only “lid” being nailed shut is your own , especially after being shown repeatedly you have lied , and insisting otherwise.
Not to mention the other insipid and stupid piss you’re posting along with it………
March 5th, 2009 at 12:32 amWhy would anyone bring up phased arrays in an attempt to justify a particular platform? It’s been around since the 70’s.
March 5th, 2009 at 12:34 amOutstandingInMyField Says:
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Why would anyone bring up phased arrays in an attempt to justify a particular platform? It’s been around since the 70’s.
March 5th, 2009 at 12:34 am
Because the partisan GOP chickenshit coward has nothing else…..
March 5th, 2009 at 12:36 amBecause the partisan GOP chickenshit coward has nothing else…..
Oh shoot, I was hoping for a hot discussion of beamforming..
March 5th, 2009 at 12:43 amTracy__5 Says:
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#286
“You have posted not one pilot’s TESTIMONY that has actually PILOTED the F-22 ”
I still see that you aren’t reading because I posted this a long time ago…
http://www.norad.mil/News/2006/012306_b.html
“Captain Lohmiller said the F-22A’s sensors made a big difference.
“I felt I had a lot more situational awareness,” he said. “There’s a lot of stuff flying around up there. It’s easier to keep track of them in this jet. It’s all right at our fingertips.”
“I already posted the info on Col. Ronald Banks , and he has NEVER FLOWN an F-22 …….”
So what? A full bird colonel who has flown thousands of hours in various aircraft? How do that NOT make him an expert on military aircraft?
March 5th, 2009 at 12:37 am
And I still see that you’re an absolute moron , in dire need of Hooked On Phonics ; post where Captain Lohmiller EVER STATED THE F-22 IS A DETERRENT , you colossal imbecile.
And how does Banks repeating a White House press release make his statement credible , dipshit ?
March 5th, 2009 at 12:44 amTracy__5 Says:
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#290
“The article repeatedly had Sprey AND James P. Stevenson talking about the limitations and ineffectiveness of the F-22?
And it isn’t as if Sprey issued these conclusions of his a decade and a half ago , jerkoff ; and he is far more credible when it comes military fighters than the 2 bozos”
Again your Sprey article has nothing to do with the deterrant claim. You admitted it. BTW the F-22 pilot’s testimony I cite isn’t good enough for you but you would rather believe what a washed up old F-16 supporter says?
March 5th, 2009 at 12:42 am
If Sprey and Stevenson both agreed upon the limitations of the F-22 and gave bigger props to the F-16 , which they also didn’t claim was any type of deterrent , doesn’t it stand to reason that they don’t view the F-22 as any type of equal , much less a deterrent , nimrod ?
BTW
Your pilot never claimed the F-22 was a DETERRENT , you uncomprehending rube ………..
March 5th, 2009 at 12:48 amOutstandingInMyField Says:
——————————————————————————–
Because the partisan GOP chickenshit coward has nothing else…..
Oh shoot, I was hoping for a hot discussion of beamforming..
March 5th, 2009 at 12:43 am
Don’t look for Tracy the Magic Redneck Rube for any “hot discussion” ; he’s a typical lying sack of GOP shit and a colossal imbecile , and not much else………..
March 5th, 2009 at 12:50 amNever heard of this on a fighter, first use I know of is fast attack boats, AN/BQQ5.
March 5th, 2009 at 12:51 amTracy__5 Says:
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#297
“post where Captain Lohmiller EVER STATED THE F-22 IS A DETERRENT”
Again for the 5th time my deterrant claim has nothing to do with your Sprey article. You ADMITTED this here…
“Where does it read that either of them claim that the F-22 is indeed a D E T E R R E N T ; especially seeing as how they’re basically bad-mouthing/criticizing it ?”
The F-22 pilot’s testimony was presented to refute what the Sprey article claim that the F-22 is an ineffective fighter.
“And how does Banks repeating a White House press release make his statement credible”
If you want to tell the man he’s a liar I challenge you to e-mail or call him.
March 5th, 2009 at 12:58 am
So much for your baseless (and stupid claim(s)) , jerkoff ……
U.S. jet fighters in Iraq also spend a significant amount of time performing what’s called “show of force” missions, which are basically attempts to fly over insurgents and scare them away. With the exorbitant costs of modern jets and fuel, F-16s might be just a little too expensive to be used as scarecrows. (Although, at $100 million per plane, F-16s are relatively affordable compared to other platforms like the $350 million F-22 Raptor, which hasn’t flown a single mission in Iraq or Afghanistan).
http://www.armscontrolcenter.org/policy/iraq/articles/091008_iraq_seeks_f16s/
Lots of “deterrant” there , huh rube ?
March 5th, 2009 at 1:08 amTracy__5 Says:
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#299
“doesn’t it stand to reason that they don’t view the F-22 as any type of equal”
Yeah, but the pilot I cited says these two are basically are full of crap.
“Your pilot never claimed the F-22 was a DETERRENT , you uncomprehending rube”
So what? I never claimed that he did and neither did Sprey, but you cited his article as a rebuttal even though YOU admitted it.
March 5th, 2009 at 1:04 am
Why would anyone need to state the word “deterrent” itself , when they are talking about the limitations of the F-22 ; much less not comparing it favorably to an F-16 , nitwit ?
BTW
Check out my post above ; says a lot about all the (stupid and baseless) prattle you’ve been posting , eh dipshit ?
March 5th, 2009 at 1:12 amWhich is why I brought it up considering the F-22’s radar system is better than anything carried on an F-15 or F-16.
Well that’s cool, but I’d like to know more. I was unaware that fighters used radar for much more than target aquisition. And while I’m more familiar with passive than active detection, I don’t see how a phased array radar would significantly improve a fighter’s performance unless it was a missile to missile intercept. Your brother’s AWACS is supposed to handle the threat eval, not the fighter.
March 5th, 2009 at 1:17 amTracy__5 Says:
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#307
“Why would anyone need to state the word “deterrent” itself , when they are talking about the limitations of the F-22?
You tell me consideing you obtusely tried to link the two by citing an article that says nothing about it.
“Check out my post above ; says a lot about all the (stupid and baseless) prattle you’ve been posting , eh dipshit ?”
It says nothing about deterring other countries airforces.
March 5th, 2009 at 1:14 am
LOL……..You’re a joke.
A respected former maker of fighter jets talks of the ineffectiveness of the F-22 , which you stupidly and without qualification , claim is a “deterrant” , when it obviously isn’t viewed that way by someone with wayyyy more knowledge and experience than your pathetic rube ass on the subject ; and you’re trying to argue that because he didn’t use the specific word “deterrant” , nor touch upon that specific subject , that is grounds for “proving” you corrrect.
That is laughable on its face alone , let alone all the time (and lies) in your posts that you’ve wasted on it.
Hey retarded Wright Brother ; you believe an unseen and unused aircraft is going to intimidate anyone ?
LOL…….Yeah , keep posting on your knowledge of “military matters” , stupid shit ………….
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