Barney Frank: It’s ‘Nonsensical’ To Retain AIG Employees To Undo The Mess They Created
Barney Frank: It’s ‘Nonsensical’ To Retain AIG Employees To Undo The Mess They Created
On the front page of the New York Times’ business section today, economic writer Andrew Sorkin argued in favor of paying out the AIG bonuses. He cited “the sanctity of contracts” to warn that “the business community” would panic if the government started “abrogating contracts left and right.” He also claimed that the bonuses were necessary to retain AIG employees, who are needed to turn the economy around: “A.I.G. built this bomb, and it may be the only outfit that really knows how to defuse it.”
This morning, ThinkProgress sat down with Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA), who chairs the House Financial Services Committee and has called for the firing of AIG executives. When asked to respond to Sorkin’s claim that only AIG employees can navigate the economy out of the mess they created, Frank dismissed it as “nonsensical”:
That’s nonsensical. It’s clear they made a lot of mistakes and we need to undo what they did. If they really understood what they did in the first place, seriously, they probably wouldn’t have done much of it. Secondly, when you are trying to undo something, it is often not the case that the people who did it are the ones to put in place. People are sometimes committed to not admitting mistakes. … So that argument I think is in fact almost counter, because the argument that you take the people who made the mistake and put them in charge of undoing the mistake goes against the human impulse not to admit a mistake.
Watch it:
Sorkin also effectively endorsed AIG executives holding the American taxpayer hostage, saying that if they are fired, they “might simply turn around and trade against A.I.G.’s book”:
So as unpalatable as it seems, taxpayers need to keep some of these brainiacs in their seats, if only to prevent them from turning against the company. In the end, we may actually be better off if they can figure out how to unwind these tricky investments.
Though Sorkin seems to have no problem with such a hostage situation, it is clearly part of the “perverse incentives” he discussed with Rachel Maddow last night: “If a deal makes money for the company, they make extra money. But if it loses money they don’t lose anything.” Apparently the New York Times’ chief financial journalist has no problem with this perversity.
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Where else are they going to go…..Lehman Brothers?
March 17th, 2009 at 11:32 amAre Bush & Cheney going to ‘undo the mess’ they created? NO.
AIG has been the group accepting & insuring toxicity. Let them choke on their own toxins as they fade into irrelevance.
March 17th, 2009 at 11:36 amCorrupt money-fixated bats are a dime a dozen in post-Bush America. Oh sure, let the taxpayer undo the disaster they created. The same money-fixated bats that created this hell will turn around the economy, yeah right! The potentially out-of-work taxpayer will not be able to pay taxes pretty soon!
March 17th, 2009 at 11:38 amWhat is it with the ’sanctity of contracts’? What about the UAW union members? Did their contracts not meet the ’sanctity’ criteria? It’s OK to change your average Joe’s contract, but not some Wall Street shyster who takes more in bonuses than most of the country will ever see in theri lives??? PLEASE!!! I CAN’T TAKE MUCH MORE OF THIS!!!!
I saw another moron on Morning Joe this morning, a woman, who was asked should the bonuses be paid out, She hesitated, then said yes, siting, once again the ’sanctity of contracts’.
This is OPEN CLASS WARFARE, and if we the people don’t do something about it, the plutocracy will get away with it and it will be business as usual.
Think Progress!!!!! How about organizing a million man march on Wall Street, or D.C.? Use the netroots juggernaut to take donations for bus tickets and hotel rooms. We have to do something, I am SICK AND TIRED OF TALKING!!
March 17th, 2009 at 11:39 amHackers, safecrackers, burglars are often hired after they’ve done time to help companies find holes in their security.
Perhaps the government should “flip” some of these crooks so we can go after the Big Fish.
Congressman Frank, stop giving them money! Spin off the shady financial products division, and bankrupt it. Then sell off the remaining parts of AIG to anyone willing to buy them. Get us off the hook now.
PEACE
March 17th, 2009 at 11:39 amKunstler said it best: “A couple weeks ago, New York State Attorney General Andrew Cuomo hauled Bank of America chief Ken Lewis into his office to explain who, exactly, received an aggregate several billion dollars in bonuses late in 2008 after the US Treasury forked over billions of dollars in TARP money to his bank. That was a good start. Lewis, being lawyered-up to the max, had the temerity to reply that answering the question would compromise his ability to keep talented people in his employ. For that impertinence alone, Lewis ought to be dragged over fifteen miles of broken chardonnay bottles behind a GMC Yukon — but that is not how we do things in American jurisprudence. To be more realistic, a simple indictment would be in order, and then Lewis can answer this question, and a few others, in the comfort of an air-conditioned courtroom. Ultimately, that might lead to Lewis becoming the wife of a bodybuilder in one of New York State’s houses of correction — a just outcome that would go far in rejiggering the nation’s expectations about how people in authority ought to behave. And such an outcome might lead to the conviction of many other brides-to-be from the Wall Street debutante pool.”
http://www.pufferfishblog.com/
March 17th, 2009 at 11:40 amWhen is BF going to own up to his responsibility in creating this financial mess we’re in?
March 17th, 2009 at 11:44 amcitizen_pain Says:
I saw another moron on Morning Joe this morning, a woman, who was asked should the bonuses be paid out, She hesitated,….
That was Maria Bartiromo of CNBC.
¶ AIO
March 17th, 2009 at 11:45 amI keep hearing, “If they don’t pay them, they’ll get sued!”
SO??
What judge or jury is going to side with AIG employees? AIG and it’s employees likely committed some sort of FRAUD and no one is going to compensate them for that.
March 17th, 2009 at 11:45 amThis too big to fail. Building a bomb only they can defuse is beyond insane.
If the government, IE the people, had not stepped in, thru our ignorant elected servants, AIG would have gone bankrupt and those ‘contracts’ would not have been filled.
They should be glad to even have jobs. Rewarding failure is a sure fire way to create more failures and more rewards for failing.
March 17th, 2009 at 11:47 amHe also claimed that the bonuses were necessary to retain AIG employees, who are needed to turn the economy around: “A.I.G. built this bomb, and it may be the only outfit that really knows how to defuse it.”
Bullcrap. Threaten them with being banned for life from making any stock trades whatsoever. Then what their sudden change of heart.
March 17th, 2009 at 11:49 amSeptember 11, 2003 NYT
March 17th, 2009 at 11:49 am”These two entities — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — are not facing any kind of financial crisis,” said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ”The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.”
If they dont stop giving out bonuses for whats a failed business model the government should take back what they gave AIG and let them go bankrupt as they should have done in the first place.
Let the Zombies defend their insolvent selves and die the failed business death they deserve.
March 17th, 2009 at 11:51 amCaptain Brodad Unkabuddy spews:When is BF going to own up to his responsibility in creating this financial mess we’re in?
Barney Frank sold unregulated derivitives? Do tell.
March 17th, 2009 at 11:52 amCaptain Brodad Unkabuddy Says:
We’re in this fix because large-scale investors wanted a fast, high rate of return. They are the ones who pressured these companies to invent ever-loosening methods of judging creditworthyness.
Your unfettered capitalism sunk our ship.
March 17th, 2009 at 11:52 amThe idea of retaining the current AIG higher-ups is like asking one of our a semi-literate trolls to proof-read themselves -when it is clear they cannot even spell in the first place.
Fire them all, then hire people who know what they are doing.
March 17th, 2009 at 11:53 amI guess these people see the economy as nothing but a bad JE and are hoping that the one who made the bad JE in the first place will come along an offer a corresponding AJE to fix the bad JE.
I’m thinking it’s not that simple.
March 17th, 2009 at 11:53 am(I smell Pee…)
March 17th, 2009 at 11:55 amOf course it’s nonsensical to keep people who screwed up, with the idea that they should fix what they broke.
Our country did this in 2004, when we kept BushCo. And we see how well that worked out.
March 17th, 2009 at 11:59 amAnd no, contracts are not “sacrosanct”.
That must be one of the most ridiculous ideas I’ve ever heard.
As for the business community panicking, they can go hurl themselves off a tall building as far as I am concerned: They created the biggest financial mess in recent memory, and now feel entitled to bonuses?
“Gall” doesn’t even being to describe these people’s attitude.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:02 pmMr. Frank and Democrats have credibility issues of their own:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxMInSfanqg
If it’s nonsensical to keep the people who screw up, why are we listening to Barney Frank?
March 17th, 2009 at 12:03 pmTHanks for your concern, b-cup.
As long as you bring up credibility issues, however…
March 17th, 2009 at 12:05 pmbackup Says:
Mr. Frank and Democrats have credibility issues of their own:
_________________
ralph the wonder llama Says:
As long as you bring up credibility issues, however…
_________________
The concept of “Irony” seems to be lost on him, ralphie…
March 17th, 2009 at 12:07 pmbarfly Says:
We’re in this fix because large-scale investors wanted a fast, high rate of return. They are the ones who pressured these companies to invent ever-loosening methods of judging creditworthyness.
Your unfettered capitalism sunk our ship.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:07 pmAnd who was pressuring these companies to loosen up the creditworthiness? Barney Frank and his lover at Fannie Mae who was benefiting greatly from the increase in business. Check it out. Also show me one example of the success of unfettered socialism. There ain’t one.
Habib Says:
It’s nonsensical to keep frank around. frank, stfu and pack your shit, go back to your little boy’s brothel!
____________
Gee… who was complaining about “loons” earlier?
March 17th, 2009 at 12:08 pmIs it nonsensical to keep Geithner?
http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-finance/20090317/Obama.Economy/
March 17th, 2009 at 12:08 pmIt is also nonsensical to retain career political windsocks.
Thank you Captain Obvious for pointing out what we already know.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:08 pmBetcha if they knew how to undo their messes, they’d have already done so
March 17th, 2009 at 12:08 pmUh, Captain Broadknob — exactly what power did Barney Frank at his fingertips on September 11, 2003?
I believe that at the time we had a Republican president, and Republican majorities in both the House and Senate. Correct me if I’m wrong on that.
If Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were the big culprits in this debacle that you and your right-wing brethren seem to think they were, why on earth would the Republican leadership have listened to a minority member on this issue, when they clearly didn’t listen to Democrats on anything else?
March 17th, 2009 at 12:09 pmCaptain Brodad Unkabuddy Says:
Also show me one example of the success of unfettered socialism. There ain’t one.
__________
Bit of a false flag there, Unka. No one is calling for “unfettered socialism”.
However, we’ve just been thru a period of unfettered capitalism, and it was indeed a total disaster.
Practice, m’boy… practice!
March 17th, 2009 at 12:10 pmHey, habib, there you are! You kind of abandoned the Faux News/Biden thread yesterday, shortly after you offered a link to support a claim you made. Unfortunately, the link actually disproved your claim. That must have been embarrassing, huh?
March 17th, 2009 at 12:11 pmSurely you’re kidding, habib… Dild’O?
Well-known sexual predator and the self-styled savior of Christmas?
March 17th, 2009 at 12:11 pmCapt. BU, Backup, Habib et al.-
Okay, you don’t like Barney… point taken.
How do you feel about ‘retention’ bonuses being paid to the executives DIRECTLY responsible for AIG’s bad investments out of the bailout?
After we deal with those DIRECTLY responsible for AIG’s collapse all of us can sit and have a pleasant chat about the role of congress in bringing on the financial meltdown, (I have some fun facts about Sen. Gramm and banking de-regulation I’d love to share…) but first things first, okay?
AIG exec’s should be fired with no bonuses, right?
March 17th, 2009 at 12:11 pmbackup babbles:
Is it nonsensical to keep Geithner?
I am not sure what your point is.
Are you trying to tell us that these bonuses should be paid?
Because believing that any higher up at AIG deserves a bonus is about as stupid as one can get, regardless of what Frank, Geithner, etc, have ever done or said…
March 17th, 2009 at 12:12 pmralph and republic. If you would rather dismiss Frank’s complicity in the subprime mess, I understand:
”These two entities — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — are not facing any kind of financial crisis,” said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ”The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.”
Representative Melvin L. Watt, Democrat of North Carolina, agreed.
”I don’t see much other than a shell game going on here, moving something from one agency to another and in the process weakening the bargaining power of poorer families and their ability to get affordable housing,” Mr. Watt said.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2086850/posts
Other people see it though.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:12 pmBecause socialism, by definition, cannot be unfettered.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:12 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
Unfortunately, the link actually disproved your claim. That must have been embarrassing, huh?
______________
Gee… I’m sorry I missed that one, ralph. Was it one of those classic Wiley E. Coyote moments when he manages to incinerate himself w/ yet another exotic Acme contraption that blows up in his face just as the roadrunner goes streaking by?
March 17th, 2009 at 12:13 pmBcup,Habib: Regurgitating DEBUNKED tripe.
Thanks for playing.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:13 pmnext
yeah, b-cup. That’s exactly what I said.
You must go through an awful lot of straw. I bet it gets all over your apartment, huh?
March 17th, 2009 at 12:14 pmbackup prattles:
If you would rather dismiss Frank’s complicity in the subprime mess, I understand:
What is the matter, backup? Are we typing too fast for you?
This thread is not about Frank, it’s about the bonuses AIG executives are about to get.
Focus, backup, focus…
March 17th, 2009 at 12:14 pmwags Says:
Because socialism, by definition, cannot be unfettered.
__________
A subtle point no doubt lost on Unka…
March 17th, 2009 at 12:15 pmBarney Frank is a worthless beaurocrat. What’s nonsensical is that he keeps getting voted into office by people who do not pay taxes but eat and drink from the government hand.
Let me ask this question… What should be more concerning to the American people?
1) That AIG executives are receiving bonuses under a legal binding contractual agreement between employee and employer?
2) That the government is stepping on the law and disregarding a binding contractual agreement between an employee and employer?
If the goverment did not want AIG to pay bonuses to executives, THEN WHY DIDN’T THEY STIPULATE THAT IN THE BAILOUT PACKAGE BEFORE THEY GAVE IT TO AIG? The government could have easily said to AIG … You get the bailout if you DO NOT give executive bonuses.
No folks, what concerns me is that we have a government so willing to overlook the law and feign outrage to gain popular support.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:15 pmbackup,
We’ll discuss how well people see things on Free Republic later.
First a question…
Bonuses and Jobs for the Executives who bankrupted AIG? Yea or Nay?
March 17th, 2009 at 12:15 pmFrom Business Week:
“There’s a dangerous — and misleading — argument making the rounds about the causes of our current credit crisis. It’s emanating from Washington where politicians are engaging in the usual blame game but this time the stakes are so high that we can’t afford to fall victim to political doublespeak. In this fact-free zone, government sponsored mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac caused the real estate bubble and subprime meltdown. It’s completely false. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were victims of the credit crisis, not culprits.”
Interesting read.
I recommend it.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:16 pmGregor. I’m saying that if Frank is charging that it doesn’t make sense for the people that caused the problem to be trusted to help solve the problem, he should recuse himself from trying to remedy this crisis he helped cause.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:16 pmbackup Says:
Is it nonsensical to keep Geithner?
The burgeoning controversy raged Tuesday as Sen. Richard Shelby…
___________
At least we can be sure it’s nonsensical to take ANYTHING Richard Shelby says seriously.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:16 pmTim43 Says:
Barney Frank is a worthless beaurocrat. What’s nonsensical is that he keeps getting voted into office by people who do not pay taxes but eat and drink from the government hand.
_______________
Barney Frank represents a RED STATE? Who knew?
March 17th, 2009 at 12:17 pmbackup Says:
ralph and republic. If you would rather dismiss Frank’s complicity in the subprime mess, I understand:
Apparently (and unsurprisingly), backup fails to stay on topic, but instead does his level best to deflect belac’s question. And not only is backup trying to drag the discussion off topic but is now doing so by linking to freerepublic. No more pretense about being a “moderate” or “independent”, at least.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:18 pmbackup Says:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2086850/posts
_____________
Free Republic????? **Snork… BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH…***
Oh… you weren’t kidding… sorry… so, what’s the Freepers’ solution?
Shoot somebody?
March 17th, 2009 at 12:19 pmTRoS, it was another classic self-pwn. Archie got his ass handed to him, he disappeared, reappeared briefly as a false-flag sockpuppet “GOPhater” which gave him the opportunity to don his “Habib” costume and pop up loudly denouncing “the hate-filled libs” or something to that effect. Then he proceeded to get his ass handed to him AGAIN, albeit in different underwear this time.
Come to think of it — I’m not sure he did change his underwear. You can never tell with trolls. they can build up impressive skid marks in a short time.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:19 pmHow does this comment by Frank not diminish his credibility on on current financial issues?
He was clueless about the financial implications of relaxing the mortgage standards. Why should we listen to him today?
March 17th, 2009 at 12:20 pmIt seems like ownership of 80% of the company gives the US taxpayers the authority to abrogate those BS contracts. Or ban the individuals from the business community for eternity.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:20 pmOr both.
Well DUH.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:20 pmAnd it’s kind of ridiculous to keep the members of Congress who stood by and said nothing for 8 hellishly long years.
Maybe they could have done nothing BUT some of them could have called a press conference (boehner seems to do it all the time) and DENOUNCED what was going on in the government.
Tim43,
March 17th, 2009 at 12:21 pmYou’re absolutely right. A contract is a contract and AMERICA must respect contracts for all time!
Back pay to all those Air-traffic controllers Reagan fired is gonna be tough, but we gotta do what’s right for AMERICA, right?
Also some pilots and auto-workers want to talk to you… and there’s a ton of Native American tribes out here too…
ralph the wonder llama Says:
TRoS, it was another classic self-pwn.
___________
Sorry I missed it. Sounds like one of those moments when Wiley can’t get the gun to fire, so he looks down the barrel while pulling the trigger to see what’s wrong.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:21 pmLet Congress pass a law that any bankstards or insurance execs that are fired can not work in their former field for at least 5 or 6 years with mandatory jail time of 5 or 6 years if they break the law. That should ensure they don’t “simply turn around and trade against A.I.G.’s book”. Hopefully, by then our economy will have turned the corner. The bankstards and insurance execs will have to dip into their ill-gotten gains to keep food on the table and roofs over their heads and they can feel some of the pain of the “little people” as Leona Helmsly called us.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:21 pmTim43 Spews: It is the W’s fault.
Timmeh,
Your “concern” is noted. However misplaced and misconstrued it may be.
So tell me then. Why were the UAW contracts NOT sactrosanct?
March 17th, 2009 at 12:22 pmAbsolutely false, b-cup, as the article I excerpted and linked to makes clear — at least in terms of any Fannie or Freddie connection.
You again demonstrate why conservatives are so inept at solving real problems — you don’t seek the true causes. You seek the ones that fit most comfortably within your worldview.
And as for credibility… you have a bit of a deficit there yourself, bucko.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:22 pmI tell you backup, and your other cohort visiting us today, my 4 year old daughter has more accountability than you sorry excuses for men have. Get that? SHE IS 4 YEARS OLD AND CAN ACCEPT BLAME FOR HER ACTIONS!
I have never in my life seen adults act so absolutely childish, gutless, and just all out pathetic.
Not once has the right ever owned up to their mistakes. You people are sorry excuses for human beings.
No wonder your party is disintegrating. Good riddance. I would personally like to kick your ass and stomp your face into a mound of broken glass, but that would be a waste of effort on my part.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:24 pmTim43 Says:
2) That the government is stepping on the law and disregarding a binding contractual agreement between an employee and employer?
__________
Gee… Timmeh… is that anything like Botch and his endless “signing statements”?
Just asking…
March 17th, 2009 at 12:24 pmSo is b-cup on an alternating schedule — he lets his troll flag fly one day, and then the next he’s plying his concern troll trade?
Today must be a full-on troll day.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:25 pmSo we need to give these financial wizzards millions of taxpayer dollars to rtetain them. Logic dictates that this is because they don’t care about fixing the problem, only the millions. So if they got their millions already what exactly is their insentive to actually FIX the problem? I’d say tell these self-serving gurus that if they can roll up their sleeves and do some positive work toward improving the economy, something tangible that can be determined, then and ONLY then will they receive any further compensation.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:26 pmThe Republic of Stupidity Says:
——————————————————————————–
Barney Frank represents a RED STATE? Who knew?
The 4th district of Massachusetts, which frank represents, is red? Do you mean that same Massachusetts that overwhelmingly voted obama in by over 20 points? Red state? Red as in “Russian red” with the hammer and sickle maybe.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:29 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
If Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were the big culprits in this debacle that you and your right-wing brethren seem to think they were, why on earth would the Republican leadership have listened to a minority member on this issue, when they clearly didn’t listen to Democrats on anything else?
So, did Barney change his tune when he became the majority and signs of the impending crisis were even MORE apparent? I think not.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:29 pmHave Tim, backup, Capt. BU, or Habib answered yet?
No bonuses or jobs for those executive’s responsible for AIG’s collapse right?
I mean, personal responsibility and what not, right?
Right???
March 17th, 2009 at 12:29 pmbackup Says:
Is it nonsensical to keep Geithner?
The burgeoning controversy raged Tuesday as Sen. Richard Shelby, ranking Republican on the Banking Committee, charged that Geithner had known about the AIG bonus payments before they were made and failed to stop them.
http://www.comcast.net/ articles/ news-finance/ 20090317/ Obama.Economy/
______________
Said Shelby: “I don’t know what President Obama knew about it,” Shelby said. “I’d say he probably didn’t know about it.”
Shelby said that Geithner “either knew or should have known what was going on. We need to know, what are the details of this? When were the bonuses signed up? Who’s getting it?”
______________
Uh… what is Shelbu sure of here? Apparently not much… funny… you’d think the RANKING REPUBLICAN on the Banking Committee would know more, wouldn’t you?
March 17th, 2009 at 12:31 pmTroll Comment of the Day!
Timmeh spews: No folks, what concerns me is that we have a government so willing to overlook the law and feign outrage to gain popular support.
IOKIYR
March 17th, 2009 at 12:32 pmIt’s ‘Nonsensical’ To Retain Congressmen To Undo The Mess They Created
March 17th, 2009 at 12:33 pmThe Republic of Stupidity
RandomChaos
From your comments you seem to have no problem with the government stepping on binding law. Enjoy the continual koolaid fed to you by the Lawyer in Chief.
belac
March 17th, 2009 at 12:33 pmAgreed!!! All contracts should be honored ESPECIALLY BY THE GOVERNMENT.
Tim43 Says:
The 4th district of Massachusetts, which frank represents, is red? Do you mean that same Massachusetts that overwhelmingly voted obama in by over 20 points? Red state? Red as in “Russian red” with the hammer and sickle maybe.
___________
Ouchie ouch ouch… the “Commie” insult… AAARGH… I’ll die six months earlier…
No, dumbie… “RED” as in “Welfare state”… those states which typically vote for Republicans (RED) and complain about their tax dollars going to welfare, but get back more in Fed money than they pay into the system…
I know it’s difficult, Timmeh… but do try and keep up.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:34 pmsomething you share with many 4 year olds.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:34 pmThanks for answering my question — oh wait — you didn’t, did you?
What actions did Barney Frank take in the last two years, since his party earned majority status, to cause this meltdown that began in ?
let’s see… in February, 2007, less than two months after Democrats took over leadership of the House and Senate, Freddie Mac announced that it will cease buying subprime mortgages that have a high likelihood of excessive payment shock and possible foreclosure.
So i guess something changed its tune.
Maybe it was Congress.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:36 pmHabib-
Is that like the firewall that prevents you from answering direct questions and providing links?
If a plumber really screws up and floods your house do you pay a BONUS to that plumber to fix the problem and then say to your friends, ‘My husband would have prolly flooded this house, too… let’s let the plumber do what he was contracted for?’
Yes, Barney Frank is your husband in this analogy… bonuses and jobs for the executives who sunk AIG? Yea or Nay?
March 17th, 2009 at 12:36 pmHA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA (*breathe*) HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!1!!!!1one
What world are you living in?
March 17th, 2009 at 12:38 pmTim43 Says:
Agreed!!! All contracts should be honored ESPECIALLY BY THE GOVERNMENT.
_________
So… are you saying Rove and Meiers, et al, should have honored those subpoenas?
And are you also disputing the validity of Botch’s endless signing statements?
And what about all the times corps have gone to court to deliberately break a contract, simply because they don’t want to honor the terms AFTER they signed it?
And then there’s the embarrassing fact that the US broke every treaty it ever signed w/ the Indians… who prolly resented being called Indians… but that’s another story…
March 17th, 2009 at 12:38 pmStart with the most basic fact of all: virtually none of the $1.5 trillion of cratering subprime mortgages were backed by Fannie or Freddie. That’s right — most subprime mortgages did not meet Fannie or Freddie’s strict lending standards
Apparently, Business Week is behind the “far left loon firewall”.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:40 pmHabib Says:
You win for idiotic comment of the day! Only a loser wouldn’t be concerned.
____________
So we can all trust you were completely outraged at BotchCo’s behavior?
March 17th, 2009 at 12:40 pmBackup, this is what people like you deserve. I’m not a violent person. But when i am faced with traitors like yourself, those who marched in lockstep with the worst administration in history, one that has brought this country to the brink of failure on too many fronts to count, i get angry.
Much like I would punish my daughter if I caught her with her hand in the cookie jar, asked if she took a cookie, and with chocolate all over her face, denies taking a cookie. Except i would explain to her what is wrong about what she has done, giver her a time out, and trust that she would remember right from wrong. With you, a grown man with no gonads, a man who hasn’t the guts to admit a mistake, well, you’d be due for a serious ass kicking. Is that analogy simple enough for you?
March 17th, 2009 at 12:41 pmHabib,
March 17th, 2009 at 12:41 pmI understand irony. Apparently you not so much.
Suck on it
It is laughable that Frank thinks that it doesn’t make sense to entrust those that created the problem to solve it.
Laughable when you know that many were challenging Frank with problems at Freddie Mac and Frannie Mae, but Frank confidently believed:
”These two entities — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — are not facing any kind of financial crisis,”
We should question the situation at AIG. We should also give Frank the credence he is due. None.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:41 pmTim43 Says:
belac
Agreed!!! All contracts should be honored ESPECIALLY BY THE GOVERNMENT.
Cool, cool… um, there’s some guys out here who are saying something about the Dakota’s?? They want all the mineral rights back and royalties on everything that’s been removed… also a whole ton Slave descendants say that Georgia and South Carolina were promised them by the Government…
they get a lot of mules, too… are you very busy, Tim?
March 17th, 2009 at 12:41 pmHabib. This is progressive for “you got me”.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:41 pmbelac, you have to look at it from habib’s point of view; whenever he provides links, they have a way of biting him in the a$$ (post 275).
So naturally he’s reluctant.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:43 pmI know, ralph… facts have a way of biting Habib in the A$$, I can see why he’s reluctant to familiarize himself with them as well.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:43 pmbelac—
Maybe we can take some nancy pelosi’s “30 million endangered salt marsh harvest mouse bailout” and give to the air traffic controllers that reagan screeewed, http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/12/earmark-less-bill-gives-pelosis-mouse-cookie/
You know, that earmark that made it into the package that the commander in cheat voted for AFTER he lead us to believe that he would halt earmarks.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:44 pmTruth of the matter.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:44 pmContracts are broken everyday of the week.
So b-cup, does your “full troll mode” restrict you from following links and educating yourself?
Do you still cling to the idea that Fannie and Freddie were the cause of the meltdown?
March 17th, 2009 at 12:45 pmAlejandro Says:
What world are you living in?
__________
Ummm… the one BotchCo just left in ruins?
March 17th, 2009 at 12:45 pmSpeaking of my daughter, I just bought the 70th anniversary of Pinocchio, and watched it with her the other night. I hadn’t seen the movie in 30 + years, so I genuinely enjoyed it.
Does everyone remember pleasure island? It’s the place where all the children went and where everything was free. No work, all play. It had an amusement park, pool halls, the works. One could drink and smoke… ahh, the life.
Well, we all know what happened to these bad boys and girls, don’t we? They turned into donkeys and got sold to the salt mines.
I’d say Backup and his ilk are sprouting ears and tails right now.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:46 pmCool Tim, we’re on the way.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:47 pmThat just leaves the pilots, the auto workers, every tribe of Native Americans, slave descendants… Dammit! This AMERICA loves contracts stuff is hard…
I think it’s terrrrr-ific!! that all our regular little lives can be held hostage by rich guys in suits. That’s what makes us grrrrrrr-eat!!
Of course, Habib and B-Cup, who are Rand-ian billionaires like myself, will agree.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:47 pmcitizen. I understand. But, don’t shoot the messenger.
Many/most people are becoming disillusioned with the bailouts.
http://www.latimes.com/news/la-na-campaign17-2009mar17,0,7008904,full.story
I hope you don’t get too tired from all the butt kicking.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:49 pmOy. How can we have a decent discussion when we have to spend all our time educating the trolls?
Turns out, there isn’t a penny in the bill for mice. A Republican staffer claims someone at an unnamed agency said $30 million might go to federal wetlands restoration. Since San Francisco Bay has wetlands and some are home to an endangered species called the salt marsh harvest mouse, he naturally concluded, “The bottom line is, if this bill becomes law, taxpayers will spend 30 million on the mouse.”
It says something profound about the strength of someone’s arguments when he has to buttress them with pure falsehoods, don’t ya think?
March 17th, 2009 at 12:49 pm“A.I.G. built this bomb, and it may be the only outfit that really knows how to defuse it.”
Strikes me that rather than knowing how to defuse it (which is a bull$hi+ claim), they are actually better at throwing it. At us.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:50 pmBackup, et all: will you please respond in an adult matter, with credible links or proof off your arguments, to the question that Dr. Hussein Matt posed at post #78?
LOL, you can’t.
So typical of you losers, blame someone else. God you people suck a$$.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:51 pmcitizen. What? Like free healthcare? Free college tuition? Free housing?
Better rethink your example.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:51 pmcitizen_pain Says:
I’d say Backup and his ilk are sprouting ears and tails right now.
They are not. They already have.
And from their posts in this thread, I’d say they are enjoying their current position of servitude, defendingtheir masters at all cost…
March 17th, 2009 at 12:52 pmbackup Says:
citizen. I understand. But, don’t shoot the messenger.
backup’s first post to this thread:
backup Says:
Mr. Frank and Democrats have credibility issues of their own:
Care to respond to Mr. Frank’s message yet?
March 17th, 2009 at 12:52 pmAIG’s executives fired with no bonuses, right?
No answer?
Cool, cool… carry on… that firewall business must be booming!
Really, Captain.
Tell me,
Did they poll anyone living in that tent city outside Sacramento?
March 17th, 2009 at 12:52 pmWe The People own 80% of AIG. That means WE hold controlling interest in the company.
Step one. Fire everyone on the board and install a new board. I’m sure we can find qualified people among the ranks of the unemployed who could be brought in to run the company.
Step two. Fire all of the management personnel. I’m sure we can fidn qualified people among the ranks of the unemployed to handle the day-to-day operations of the company.
Step three. Break-up the company. If it’s “too big to fail,” it’s too big to exist.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:53 pmGood catch, belac.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:54 pmOr is approval waning because all the R’s have been out talking trash and telling lies??
How about we do some R strategy on you, Captain.
We’ll lie about you all day, over your denials;
Later, lots of people will believe false things about you, and not take any interest in what you have to say about it…
Then, we’ll ask you whether there must not have been something true and legitimate about the lies we told about you, and expect you to agree.
How would that be?
March 17th, 2009 at 12:55 pmBackup, if you were the messenger, i wouldn’t shoot. I’d tar and feather you and place you in stocks in town square. After i pummel you weak loser ass of course.
And no Sh!T people are fed up with the bailouts.
Did you say anything about the 1st TARP payout under Bu$H? bet you thought we HAD to do that, huh?
What about the pallets of hundreds of millions of dollars that disappeared in Iraq? What did you say about that?
The billions in no-bid contracts… what you say?
As Niedermeyer would have said, you are worthless and weak. I have one measure of solace though. Right wingers like yourself are ALWAYS WRONG. That, and it won’t be long until your party is comparable to the KKK in the south. Laughable and irrelevant.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:55 pmTim43 Says:
Maybe we can take some nancy pelosi’s “30 million endangered salt marsh harvest mouse bailout” and give to the air traffic controllers that reagan screeewed, http://www.washingtontimes.com/ news/ 2009/ feb/ 12/ earmark-less-bill-gives-pelosis-mouse-cookie/
You know, that earmark that made it into the package that the commander in cheat voted for AFTER he lead us to believe that he would halt earmarks.
____________
Siiiigh… we’ve been thru this one already too, Timmeh.
From the article you link to:
“The speaker nor her staff have had any involvement in this initiative. This is yet another contrived partisan attack,” Pelosi spokesman Drew Hammill said. “Restoration is key to economic activity, including farming, fisheries, recreation and clean water.”
The money is for wetlands restoration, not “a mouse”. It was NOT “slipped in” after the fact.
Yes, it will create jobs in THIS COUNTRY, not Iraq or India or China… it will improve water quality in the SF Bay, thereby protecting valuable fisheries (MONEY, Timmeh, MONEY!!!). It is a totally worthwhile project and about so much more than just a mouse.
Funny… righties didn’t put up much of a fuss when BotchCo was dumping BILLIONS and BILLIONS of dollars over in South Asia, but come time to spend money on their won country, and it’s pants wetting time, huh?
March 17th, 2009 at 12:56 pmWhat? Like free healthcare? Free college tuition? Free housing?
Yeah, I find those things to be a much better use of my tax dollars than bonuses to executives who sunk the economy, how about you?
Also I think they’re a better investment than pallets of cash in Iraq, your thoughts?
Wait- scratch that second one… I can’t expect you to ignore two points at once… backup to where you just say that Executives have contracts that can’t be broken and Barney Frank is a big meanie… we’ll go from there.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:56 pmSo you’re trying to “get” progressives? Okay. And here I thought you were interested a serious bipartisan discussion about the future of this country. Guess I was wrong.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:57 pmbackup Says:
Suck on it
Habib. This is progressive for “you got me”.
__________
It’s actually ONE PERSON’S comment… prolly someone fed up w/ the endless, nonsensical spinning you do here.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:59 pmBackup, et all: will you please respond in an adult matter, with credible links or proof off your arguments, to the question that Dr. Hussein Matt posed at post #78?
LOL, you can’t.
citizen. Try this:
wikipedia.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:00 pmThere’s no foul in responding to liars harshly.
Quit lying, and you’ll stop getting the harsh replies.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:00 pmnice backup – now you’re repeating a lie that someone else put on Wiki
lil’ heads up for ya – repeating someone else’s lie is still lying.
so – - suck it.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:01 pmB-cup, your comment about free healthcare, tuition, housing, blah blah blah, only reveals your ignorance and flat out stupidity.
On what basis do you claim the services you mentioned would be free?
I guess it hasn’t dawned on you that a healthy, educated populace would benefit the whole country. And if you are college educated, where did you get the money to pay for it? you pay up front in cash? I’ve never known anyone in my life who has had a free education, save for scholarships. Are you saying we should do away with scholarships?
Guess I’ll go watch the grass grow while I await your answer.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:01 pmTrollspotter. Come on. You don’t have a problem with “suck on it”?
The posters here can’t do better than that?
March 17th, 2009 at 1:01 pmtombaker. I get it. Any source I offer that doesn’t fit your worldview in not credible. That’s pretty easy.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:03 pmbackup-
read it again.
That entry shows that Fannie and Freddie were VICTIMS of the sub-prime crisis, not perpetrators… read Ralph’s business week article for more in-depth coverage.
Or do those things get caught in the firewall?
AIG exec’s bonuses… yea or nay?
March 17th, 2009 at 1:04 pmCaptain Brodad Unkabuddy Says:
September 11, 2003 NYT
”These two entities — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — are not facing any kind of financial crisis,” said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ”The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.”
You idiot, that was 6 years ago. 6 years ago Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac weren’t in any trouble at all. Hell 6 years ago UK was a great team. They suck now. You people should just vanish from the face of the earth. You treat polities like collage football. No matter how bad your side sucks you aren’t switching no matter how bad it gets.
Keep on looking stupid. You do it really well.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:04 pmb-cup, do you even read the shit you post?
Then in 2007, the subprime mortgage crisis began. An increasing number of borrowers, often with poor credit that were unable to pay their mortgages – particularly with adjustable rate mortgages (ARM), caused a precipitous increase in home foreclosures. As a result, home prices declined as increasing foreclosures added to the already large inventory of homes and stricter lending standards made it more and more difficult for borrowers to get mortgages. This depreciation in home prices led to growing losses for the GSEs
Fannie and Freddie were victims of the crisis, not culprits.
Get it through your head.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:04 pmWow. The trolls REALLY, REALLY…. REALLY have some SUPER MAJOR WOOD going on for ol’ Barney Frank.
Just WOW.
Hey, there, little fellas — you can come out of the closet. Your overenthusiastic concern about Mr. Frank is… well, actually a bit disturbing. And a bit insightful, as you ALL are ranting on and on about Frank, but not a peep about the topic of the thread.
Prolly b’cuz y’all think thoem there execs are the only people in this country who can do their jobs, huh? If the argument is that they would just go somewhere else, then LET THEM.
Or is it that you don’t believe in any responsibility or accountability at all?
Are ANY of you trolls actually arguing that there are no other people in the us who can do the jobs those FAILED WELFARE EXECS screwed up? No ‘young blood” out there ready, capable, and waiting for such a job? No long-term employees that are capable? The argument IMPLIES that these failed welfare queen execs are the only people in the nation who can do those jobs. Seems like a ridiculous argument. I don’t hear you trolls arguing that ANY group of laid off people deserve better, nor that there was aproblem with Regan’s cancelling of contracts, or the renegotiated contracts of the auto workers. You defend ONLY executives who, all on their own, have managed to almost wreck the economy of the Unites States.
Now, who exactly are the REAL welfare queens, and WHO exactly have an overinflated sense of ENTITLEMENT? Republican corporate shills and the execs that they defend, even to the detriment of the country.
Fact is, they are arguably traitors, as are those who defend their illegal destruction of the country.
All in the name of the God of Conservativism: Holy Capitalism: a failed experiment that operates on ONE PRINCIPLE — GREED. At least admit that you are not Christians or Jews and that your ONE GOD is GREED. At least then you’d be honest — still worthless sacks of puss, but honest sacks of puss.
Just sayin’.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:05 pmrhf. Freddie and Fannie lobbying republicans? Are you serious? Barney Frank? Franklin Raines?
Better take another look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxMInSfanqg
March 17th, 2009 at 1:06 pmAre you saying that is the high point of the conversation from progressives?
Are you saying that no one here has done “better” than “suck on it”?
I wanna find out where you get the deal you have on straw deliveries. I guess you get a better price when you buy in bulk.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:07 pmB-Cup, I hate to burst your bubble, but WIKI is hardly the place to find an accurate description. Me, I rely on people in the field in question for answers. this was posted above for you, but I doubt you read it as facts are so invonvenient for you idiots. But I’ll post it anyway. Consider this my good deed of the day:
http://www.businessweek.com/investing/insights/blog/archives/2008/09/fannie_mae_and.html
An excerpt:
“Start with the most basic fact of all: virtually none of the $1.5 trillion of cratering subprime mortgages were backed by Fannie or Freddie. That’s right — most subprime mortgages did not meet Fannie or Freddie’s strict lending standards. All those no money down, no interest for a year, low teaser rate loans? All the loans made without checking a borrower’s income or employment history? All made in the private sector, without any support from Fannie and Freddie.”
What do you have to say about that?
March 17th, 2009 at 1:09 pmooh – JK – the boldest LIAR of all….
hey psycho – how’s your stocks doin’?
-better get a thank you note off to the white house, stat.
if the Idiot was still in charge, you’d be gettin’ your tent ready to move out under an overpass somewhere.
lyin’ freak.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:09 pmbackup Says:
rhf. Freddie and Fannie lobbying republicans? Are you serious? Barney Frank? Franklin Raines?
Didn’t you say something about messengers and not shooting them?
Frank had a message we were discussing, what was it?
Oh yeah!
‘Retention’ bonuses for the executives who sunk AIG paid out of bailout money is a bad idea and those guys should be fired.
I agree, do you backup?
March 17th, 2009 at 1:10 pmsorry-ass liars on a sorry-ass mission
what a literal WASTE.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:10 pmbackup Says:
The posters here can’t do better than that?
___________
Habib Says:
It’s nonsensical to keep frank around. frank, stfu and pack your shit, go back to your little boy’s brothel!
___________
Apparently not…
March 17th, 2009 at 1:11 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
I wanna find out where you get the deal you have on straw deliveries. I guess you get a better price when you buy in bulk.
Of course you do, you sneaky herbivore…. your ultimate plot to find cheap straw has been unveiled. Now all your whack-a-troll hunting makes sense — you’re trying to learn the troll’s secret straw delivery source.
But know this: it is republican straw, and as such eating it might be… harmful, to say the least (you know… no regulations or quality standards that would interfere with profits….) . just warnin’ ya’. ;)
March 17th, 2009 at 1:13 pmralph. you’ve got a point about the wikipedia information.
Here’s an economist article that explains it differently:
http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2008/10/crisis_roundtable_more_fannie.cfm
March 17th, 2009 at 1:14 pmcitizen_pain Says:
What do you have to say about that?
_________
Probably NOTHING.
Actually, as Ralph pointed out, the Wiki link doesn’t really support backed up’s claims. You have to wonder, did b-cup even read it before posting?
March 17th, 2009 at 1:15 pmFrom the link:
March 17th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
Dammit! CageyCretin is on to me!
March 17th, 2009 at 1:17 pmThis is just disgusting. Like watching convicted delinquents argue their complete innocence while watching a videotape of their transgressions:
“That’s not even me! I don’t have a shirt like that even – you guys are just unfair! You’re just out to get me! You don’t under-stand”
F’ing disgrace.
Why are backup and habib even permitted to hang around??
They should be in treatment somewhere.
What a sick, sick way to spend time…..
March 17th, 2009 at 1:19 pmbackup Says:
From the link:
Crisis roundtable: More Fannie and Freddie
Posted by: Economist.com | NEW YORK
MY COLLEAGUE points out Fannie and Freddie were not entirely at fault. That is absolutely correct. For things to go so epically wrong many factors must contribute.
(That’s the FIRST line, BTW… WERE NOT ENTIRELY AT FAULT…
This is the LAST LINE:
[O]rigins of most financial crises (excluding, perhaps, those attributable to natural disasters, war, and other nonfinancial events) can be traced to failures of due diligence or “market discipline” by an important group of market participants.
FAILURES of DUE DILIGENCE…
(It’s called “regulation”…)
March 17th, 2009 at 1:20 pmralph the wonder llama Says:
Dammit! CageyCretin is on to me!
Well, you’re not gonna whack it out of ‘em — they’re masochists.
But you know… they eat those straw men here on a daily basis, and you see what it does for them….
Must go.
Play nice.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:20 pmB-Cup, you still don’t get it, do you? Fannie and freddie were NOT responsible for these sub-prime loans!
They invested in a corrupt casino type of atmosphere called Wall Street, where greedy unscrupulous traitors MADE UP THE RULES AS THEY WENT ALONG! They got swindled like the rest of us!
F & F were VICTIMS.
Jesus, are you really that daft?!?
March 17th, 2009 at 1:21 pmfrom backup’s economist article:
So, the demand for more mortgage backed securities spurred by foreign investment and Gramm’s banking de-regulation that allowed everyone to act like a bank with no oversight were bad but MAYBE if Fannie and Freddie had been smaller everyone would have behaved?
That’s your argument?
It’s Fannie and Freddie’s fault ’cause they were too nice?
If someone steals your radio ’cause there’s a huge demand for car stereo’s on the street and Phil Gramm passed a law saying that car door locks should be removed from all cars do you get mad at the car company for installing such a nice stereo?
Maybe if it hadn’t have been so nice no one would have stolen it, huh?
Weird.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:21 pmWow, b-cup… you actually DO read some responses… just not all of them, and not the links we provide.
So in the first half of 2006, when Republicans were in control of Congress, Freddie and Fannie purchased 25% of subprime MBS.
Of course, Freddie and Fannie didn’t originate those loans, did they?
They simply provided some security for them. And there was 75% of that market that had nothing to do with Freddie and Fannie. And the following year, when Democrats took over Congress, Freddie decided to stop buying subprimes.
So I’m having a little trouble finding Barney Frank’s role in all of this.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:22 pmcitizen_pain Says:
Jesus, are you really that daft?!?
__________
No… he’s either paid to do this, or just plain desperate.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:22 pmhabib Says:
So, you’re saying wiki isn’t a reliable source? We can immediately discount it next time you use for a source? Thanks.
__________
Nice try, habib, but we’ve already headed that one off.
But t’anks fer playing.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:23 pm“WELL, SEAN HANNITY JUST SAID THIS MORNING THAT…….”
clowns.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:27 pmSaid to Habib? No, I don’t have much of a problem with that, given that poster’s track record of profanity and nonsense. He’s never claimed to be interested in anything more than trolling. How about you?
March 17th, 2009 at 1:28 pmHab – I don’t offer sources to assclowns who troll blogs. And I don’t follow the links they post, and I’m not amused by having to witness their dysfunction on a daily basis.
Don’t direct posts at me.
Don’t read what I post.
Idiot.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:30 pmralph. you seem to know more than I on this. What oversight to Freddie and Fannie was being proposed that Frank thought was unnecessary?
March 17th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
And the regularly-scheduled TP Tuesday Morning Slap Fight™ rages on…
Later all! If one of the trolls tries to nail me in my absence, pls take careful notes so’s I kin pay back the miscreant in due time…
March 17th, 2009 at 1:33 pmI can remember Republicans bragging about the housing bubble before it burst. Oddly, they weren’t giving any of the credit to Barney Frank or the Democrats at that time.
Media Matters has done numerous debunkings of the attacks on Barney Frank.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:34 pmSo why are you alleging that I am a troll? I’ve never once gone to right wing blogs and tried to disrupt conversations. Not once. I have no other names I post under here. Not a one. You tried to argue that I don’t post on topic, but I do. I demonstrated that the last time we had this conversation.
You, by contrast, troll as many blue blogs as you can in the hopes of lying, smearing and sock puppeting, because you believe that this behavior is moral when done to progressives but immoral when done to conservatives.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:34 pmTrollspotter. You are right. If Habib is using profanity, I don’t condone that.
I think it weakens the arguments, no matter who resorts to it.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:34 pmRalph, you’ve got to kick this backup habit.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:35 pmI don’t now, b-cup. What power did Frank have at the time he made this statement (2003) to enact any oversight?
March 17th, 2009 at 1:36 pmThat’s more your territory. You’ll be okay. See ya.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:36 pmWell, everone knows that Barney Frank secretly controls everything (bad) that has ever happened.
Sean Hannity said so, and he’s a man of God, so that’s that.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:38 pmIn most cases, it weakens arguments. But when it is called for, I think it is absolutely appropriate.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:39 pmI can quit anytime I want… no, really! I can!
March 17th, 2009 at 1:39 pmWhat oversight to Freddie and Fannie was being proposed that Frank thought was unnecessary?
What’s more to the point, what do you think would have been accomplished by Freddie and Fannie refusing to buy these loans?
Sure, Freddie and Fannie could have said, ‘we won’t buy these, they’re too risky for us now we have this INCREASED OVERSIGHT from the Government…’ but the loans already existed… they had been issued by other parties who would have sold them to someone else or held on to them themselves… get it?
March 17th, 2009 at 1:40 pmThanks.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:40 pmI believe he was the ranking Democrat on the Finance committee.
If the point is what is the relevance of Frank because he was not in the majority, I would argue that 10 of the last dozen TP posts were about minority conservatives.
http://thinkprogress.org/
Same relevance.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:43 pmah, bullsh*t.
He/it is the bad cop to your good cop in this charade. I aint buyin’ it, B-cup.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:44 pmThe first step is that you admit you have a problem.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:45 pmPaying millions to the f uckups that caused the mess in hopes that they can fix it would be kind of like hiring Dick Cheney as a special consultant to solve corruption in corporate America. Or hiring George W. Shithead to tape the Constitution back together after he ran it through the shredder. You see all these criminals are good at is f ucking up the works, not solving problems.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:46 pmSame relevance.
You know what has more relevance to the economic collapse than Fannie and Freddie?
Insurance Companies like AIG to get SUPER- huge and then act like banks and hedge funds and invest in Mortgage Backed Securities… a scenario that was made possible by Sen. Gramm’s Gramm-Leach-Bliley act.
Care to comment on AIG’s culpability?
March 17th, 2009 at 1:47 pmHow about the compensation proposed for the executive’s responsible?
No?
What a surprise.
Insert
March 17th, 2009 at 1:48 pm(Allowing) Insurance Companies like AIG…
above.
Which meant squat in the Republican-controlled Congress of that era…
Uh, no… b-cup, not the same thing at all. You argued that Barney Frank had no credibility because of a statement he made in 2003, when Fannie and Freddie were healthy, because the subprime market was just picking up steam. Your ideological brethren have argued that Frank was responsible in large part for the meltdown, using this statement as evidence.
The fact is, Frank had no power to make anything happen in 2003, because Democrats were treated as irrelevant by the majority.
When Democrats took over Congress in 2007, within two months Freddie Mac announced it would no longer purchase the worst of the subprime loans. draw whatever conclusions you like from that, but the ones you’ve been trying to draw won’t work.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:51 pmI swear these righties live on lies from their heroes like junkies live on the needle…
March 17th, 2009 at 1:57 pmSince the crux of the ‘This is all Freddie/Fannie’s fault…’ argument seems to be that the size and availability of backing from these institutions removed all ‘moral hazard’ in the mortgage industry and caused normally sane, rational, level-headed mortgage brokers to go coo-coo and start offering no-money down ARM’s to anybody who could sign an ‘x’ I wonder…
Doesn’t the giving of bonuses to the Executives at AIG who participated in this charade despite their utter and total failure a much stronger ‘moral hazard’ argument?
How will they get better if we give them bonuses no matter what?
March 17th, 2009 at 2:05 pmoffer a much stronger… jeebuz.
March 17th, 2009 at 2:06 pmWhy? Are you jealous?
March 17th, 2009 at 2:11 pmHabib Says:
Nuttin? None? Nada?
Is that the number of times you’ve answered a direct question?
The number of times you’ve posted on-topic?
I used to believe that my Government would never torture a prisoner (human rights/cruel and unusual punishment) That’s gone- thanks to Bush.
I used to believe that my phone calls and communications were protected and the Government couldn’t have access to them unless they showed a judge they really needed to tap them (right to privacy/wiretapping laws) That’s gone- thanks to Bush.
Shall I continue?
What should happen to the AIG executive’s responsible for AIG’s collapse, Habib?
March 17th, 2009 at 2:18 pmdon’t know what “principle” means, do ya Hab?
no surprise there, as you obviously have none.
get a life friend – you only demean yourself here.
March 17th, 2009 at 2:20 pmLet’s see… I don’t want to speak for PLC, but… freedom from being imprisoned without charge, freedom from being wiretapped without a warrant… just for starters.
‘Course, those prolly aren’t big ones to you. As long as you can own an assault weapon, yer good to go, amiright?
March 17th, 2009 at 2:20 pmHabib = the Pashtun word for hapless.
March 17th, 2009 at 2:21 pmso if the taking away of rights doesn’t happen to you personally, then it shouldn’t matter? Talk about the most perfect example of conservative head in the sand self-interest. I think you’re mom’s calling you Habib…
March 17th, 2009 at 2:35 pmWhen did this happen to you, personally?
Ahh, so then it’s not important, huh?
March 17th, 2009 at 2:36 pmActually, no one knows if they’ve been wiretapped illegaly but chances are we’re all getting tapped… that’s how these illegal BTW data-mining programs work… and there’s strong evidence they are at work RIGHT NOW!
So yeah, it prolly has happened to me PERSONALLY- not that that’s important.
March 17th, 2009 at 2:39 pmHouse Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-California) was one of the 94 out of 105 Democrats voting for a FISA bill granting telecoms retroactive immunity.
If it wasn’t a; illegal and b: widespread, then why’d they all need the retroactive immunity?
And that doesn’t absolve Bush from taking the rights away, does it? Only forgive the telcoms for following Bush’s orders…
March 17th, 2009 at 2:41 pmThere’s rightie logic for ya, if it’s not happening to you then it doesn’t matter!
March 17th, 2009 at 2:41 pmYou talk to terrorists?
Boy, that’s off the reservation… nope.
You see, in order for these data-mining programs to work they need to listen and record EVERYTHING and look for patterns and key-words… do you talk to terrorist’s? Doesn’t matter! They prolly have you on tape, too…
That’s why the FBI was so pissed at the NSA a couple of years ago… they had to spend valuable man-hours tracking down every Troll or teenager who said, ‘Dat’s da BOMB!’ and it was a HUGE waste of time… as you seem to be.
March 17th, 2009 at 2:43 pmYou don’t really have a firm grasp of the concept of “rights” do ya?
March 17th, 2009 at 2:44 pmWell, given that you guys called the President of the United States a terrorist during the campaign, then chances are I’ve talked on the phone to someone that a wingnut would consider a terrorist.
March 17th, 2009 at 2:46 pmas everyone on here has said a million times: it’s a PROGRESSIVE blog, you moron. we always disagree with the moderate and DINO decisions that come down, and support the PROGRESSIVE ones.
Your small mind can’t comprehend anything but this weird black and white world that you want to prove to yourself that because of complicity on the part of some Democrats, they must all be completely hypocritical, and none of us have any cred to say anything.
what are you doing here? what is going on in your sad world? you must realize at the end of the day that you actually just rally us, confirm our own suspicions about you empty-headed dittoheads. I don’t understand.
March 17th, 2009 at 2:47 pmHere ya go, Habib- Mark Klien explains how the NSA is listening to YOU!!! PERSONALLY!!!
March 17th, 2009 at 2:59 pmILLEGALLY!!!!!
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/04/70621
AIG paid 73 employees bonuses of more than $1 million, New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo informed Congress in a letter Tuesday.
Cuomo also wrote that 11 of the employees no longer work for the company. The largest bonus paid was $6.4 million and seven more people received more than $4 million each.
So much for the argument that they had to pay out the bonuses to retain the talent!
March 17th, 2009 at 3:00 pmgood point realness, and one i’ve tried to press on the righties in the past.
all they really accomplish is further motivating the very people who will vote against their candidates and policies.
extremely self-defeating strategy when you think about it.
March 17th, 2009 at 3:01 pmIt’s kinda nice that there are some things you can count on… the sun rising every morning, baseball season every spring, and fred garvin indulging his Olbermann obsession in entirely unrelated threads.
Dependable as the tides.
March 17th, 2009 at 3:06 pmThese guys must all belong to one particular Glen “red dawn of tears” Beck cell that is tasked with “gathering intelligence” on Olberman.
I just wish they’d succeed in gathering some intelligence, but that’s probably way too much to hope for of them.
Sure glad I’m not a wild-eyed loon hell-bent on stalking a cable news talker. That would suck.
March 17th, 2009 at 3:07 pmFar beit for olbermann to apologise for the hundreds of times he’s spliced a diced quotes and videos…
Splicing is fine- in television news they call that editing… what’s wrong is editing to make someone ‘appear’ to say the exact opposite of what they were in fact saying. Which is what Fox News did.
You think Olbermann has ‘hundreds’ of similar offenses?
Silly to ask, I know, but… link?
March 17th, 2009 at 3:11 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
mary Says:
So much for the argument that they had to pay out the bonuses to retain the talent!
The only thing the CONS are TALENTED AT is f**KiNg EVERYTHING UP! ;)
And covering theirs, if you know what I mean!
March 17th, 2009 at 3:12 pmScratch that fred garvin.
March 17th, 2009 at 3:14 pmI’d prefer you to answer the question posed by this thread… do AIG’s executives deserve a bonus for bankrupting the company?
Thanks.
jeebus… this is really getting sad. Have your people call my people, toad. We’ll do lunch.
Habib/fredG/archieB/mrPee/olbie_watch/ … you need to have the ole noggin looked at.
March 17th, 2009 at 3:14 pmfred garvin gives us a rare two-fer: he displays an utter ignorance of two concepts in a single post.
He neither understands “obsession” nor “irony”.
that’s impressive, fred garvin.
March 17th, 2009 at 3:15 pmLie about me Fred, and I’ll happily return the favor, thus:
“Uh, Fred, why should anyone read the posts of a Level III sex offender like you? Why did you try to have sex with all those little children?”
See how that works, Fred?
March 17th, 2009 at 3:15 pmhissy-pitchin’ juveniles.
this is like hearing about my 5th-grade Daughter’s day at school, where obnoxious add-sufferers from righty households bring the education process to a screeching halt daily.
March 17th, 2009 at 3:19 pmfred garvin, you might think about getting your obsession treated.
They have drugs now that can deal with it.
March 17th, 2009 at 3:21 pmy’know what Fred?
it’s just some guy on tv
ask yourself what real thing you’re accomplishing through this obsessive behavior.
i don’t want to hear the answer – you just work that out with yourself.
March 17th, 2009 at 3:21 pmHey fred garvin… do AIG’s executive’s deserve these ‘retention’ bonuses for bankrupting their company?
March 17th, 2009 at 3:26 pmOh, I don’t know if I’d call you an “olbyLOON”, fred g. You’re obsessive, sure. But “LOON”?
That’s a little harsh, even for someone with as little self-esteem as you have. Seriously, freddie g, get some help.
March 17th, 2009 at 3:27 pmanother flagged psychopath
bye fred.
March 17th, 2009 at 3:29 pmFred is a level III sex offender? Why am I not surprised?
That’s disgusting Fred, you are going to hell in a handbasket for all those innocent lives you have destroyed.
Thanks for the heads up tombaker, we can treat this pervert accordingly.
March 17th, 2009 at 3:31 pmBaby raper.
March 17th, 2009 at 3:34 pmWTF does K.O have to do with the topic of this thread?
March 17th, 2009 at 3:35 pmAnd WhyTF does gred farvin have a continuous hard-on for him?
It doesn’t make sense to us. But the people in the financial institutions that have failed, do not see themselves as failures. They have hit a minor glitch in the road. No need to get excited, the American sucker will take the fall. The American public which earns on average 500 times less then they do. The American public which cannot possibly understand the workings of big business. The American public which are privileged to underwrite their mistakes.
We should not expect failure to be criticized. Just shut up and give us the money. By all means don’t expect those executives to suffer the consequences of years of greed and stupidity. Those bonuses must be given. If not, the executives that screwed up to the tune of billions, might get their feelings hurt. And might leave on the heels of being unappreciated and held accountable. We cannot have that, can we? It is the feeling of total entitlement that comes through loud and clear. They seem to be anesthetized against reality. They do not believe they have failed. We just don’t understand how complex things are. Yes we do. We understand that we are paying the bills for their failure. We understand that if things were reversed, we would have been fired.
This is the mind set. Where else but in this country is failure rewarded so richly? Please let me fail the same way. With someone else picking up the tab. Just where can I go to get such a job.
Firings are what is needed. Mr.Frank is right. Which one of us would be allowed NOT TO FAIL. Who among us is so needed that massive failure is just a glitch in the road?
Fire the bastards.
March 17th, 2009 at 3:40 pmMaybe we’re going about this the wrong way.
Perhaps fred garvin would be better served by compassion than derision at this point. After all, he’s clearly mentally unstable — obsessing over a male TV host and all.
I’m afraid fred garvin may turn violent if we force him to confront his unrequited man-love for Keith.
March 17th, 2009 at 3:41 pmMarch 17th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
gred farvin says:
haggy brought him up, ask him.
Is that what you call your nether regions, which you’ve been constantly “polishing” since you’ve entered K.O into your non-debate?
If so, ummmmmmm no thanks.
March 17th, 2009 at 3:48 pmI’ll pass.
Okay.
gred farvin and his “haggy” polishing continues to make absolutely no sense.
Hey gred, it’s a hell of a lot easier to type with both hands.
Mucking foron!
March 17th, 2009 at 3:51 pmThe funniest thing about the whole Archie B/fred garvin/habib troll is how deeply he hates this Average American Patriot fellow who apparently destroyed him over at Olbermann Watch. He gets all bothered about how that poster allegedly lied, smeared and used sock puppets, but has no problem doing the exact same thing here and on other blue blogs. Situational ethics.
March 17th, 2009 at 3:55 pmHey, I’m not an Olbermann Watch reader, so it’s alleged to me. After all, why should anyone take your word for it, “fred,” given your history of lying, smearing and using sock puppets?
March 17th, 2009 at 3:58 pmflag.
flag.
….flag (there’s one to grow on for ya, dummy)
March 17th, 2009 at 4:00 pmInteresting, trollspotter. Did you notice that the only thing in your post with which fred garvin takes issue is “allegedly”?
It seems he admits that he gets bothered about others using sockpuppetry, but has no problem doing so himself.
I guess anything’s fair if it helps him express his twisted man-love for Keith Olbermann.
March 17th, 2009 at 4:00 pmThis name changing troll is absurd. All he does is recite talking point. His next attack will be Nancy Pelosi’s plane. That’s what they have. Barney Frank lies, attack Keith because we make fun of Fox, and when that fails they go to all the money spent on Pelosi’s plane. The one George Bush activated after 9/11. No matter which of these wing nuts it’s the same crap. The latest stupid I heard was that if we give everybody health insurance there won’t be enough doctors to treat everybody. Idiots every one.
March 17th, 2009 at 4:03 pmfred garvin-
Do you have the nerve to defend AIG’s executive’s?
That is what we’re discussing, right?
March 17th, 2009 at 4:04 pmyou wish fred – and that is really where your problem lives.
March 17th, 2009 at 4:04 pmYou’ve hit many a nerve, fred. You’re annoying in a gnat like way. Annoying gnats like yourself get on peoples nerves.
Get it?
..I doubt it.
March 17th, 2009 at 4:04 pmJust flag them all backup, habib, fred garvin and have TP get rid of hit/them. It’s probably the same guy Mr. President who mucked up the place a couple of years ago.
March 17th, 2009 at 4:05 pmShayne Says:
This name changing troll is absurd. All he does is recite talking point. His next attack will be Nancy Pelosi’s plane.
Trolls have shifted to Pelosi’s mice — the mythical GOPer talking point.
March 17th, 2009 at 4:06 pm<blockquote>fred garvin Says:
Source? You want a source that I’m not an Olbermann Watch reader? Such as what, exactly? I’ve heard of the site but I’ve never directed my browser there.
Anyway, like I was saying, it’s funny how every time you troll, you’re telling us, “Whatever AAP did, I’m just as bad if not worse!” And that’s neat because it’s really easy for me to point independents and moderate conservatives to threads you’ve trolled, and have a fun talk about how deranged extreme right wingers have become.
You realize you don’t come off too well with your schtick, right? Obnoxious, ill-thought out posts are kryptonite for any chance the GOP has of expanding their base beyond the lunatic fringe of the extreme right.
March 17th, 2009 at 4:08 pmLet them leave, you say. Where would they go, given the troubles in the financial industry? But the fact is, the real moneymakers in finance always have a place to go. You can bet that someone would scoop up the talent from A.I.G. and, quite possibly, put it to work — against taxpayers’ interests.
The word on the street is that A.I.G. employees are being heavily recruited,” Ms. Meyer (a compensation consultant) says.
To, as Andrew Sorkin is quoted as saying above, “simply turn around and trade against A.I.G.’s book”?
Great, we feed the beast with our taxpayer money so that the vampires jump ship and then try to feed on it.
March 17th, 2009 at 4:08 pmyou’re just another average example in a long line of “booger-wavers” – people who come here only in the interest of pissing others off, like those little boys who, because they are so nervous and intimidated, pick their noses then brandish the product at girls to get them to shreik and recoil.
all those of us who graduated elementary school know the type – not hard to spot.
it’s just redundant as hell, and therefore not something i’d like to see my time or the threads wasted on.
March 17th, 2009 at 4:09 pmBreak the cycle Fred! Just because your Daddy had his way with you when you were just a lad and you are carrying on the family tradition doesn’t make it right.
Face up to your perversions son, you may diminish the self loathing too.
March 17th, 2009 at 4:12 pmI know. He’s totally broken. I don’t know how much if it has to do with other posters destroying him or how much it has to do with unrequited love for Olbermann. 50-50, maybe? 60-40?
On the other hand, it might just be a realization that he’s incapable of the kind of cognitive thought it takes to make a real argument, but maybe he can score one for his side instead if he just… well… I don’t know, I’ve yet to see him score one for his side. I guess he’s still trying to figure that one out.
March 17th, 2009 at 4:13 pmAnd oh how you long to be like him, huh? That’s why you go through so many names as you lie and you smear. And that’s why it’s easy to conclude that this AAP destroyed you, buddy. Whatever you were before he came around, you’ve ditched all that in a desperate attempt to be like him instead. Sad.
March 17th, 2009 at 4:14 pmAre you looking in the mirror?
March 17th, 2009 at 4:15 pmMary – I’ll join you on topic. It is tragic that, due to the way Wall St. “governs” itself, and the way R’s have intentionally failed to mitigate Wall St.’s impact on OUR economy, the very people who put the car in the ditch are not only being put back behind the wheel, they’re being given new cars that we’ll pay for.
That’s where the bottom line on all this crap lies.
The proportions of our economic pyramid have been moved way the F out of whack – and the F’ers who moved it are going to fight tooth and nail to keep it that way. They can afford a lot of liars to help them for a while, but they can’t do it forever.
March 17th, 2009 at 4:17 pmWe love our country and we love each other. We hate YOU.
March 17th, 2009 at 4:17 pmI’m sorry if you don’t like the truth. The facts are that a poster named AAP did some things that you don’t like (you call him a “psycho” even), and now you try to emulate him as much as possible. That’s your life, dude.
March 17th, 2009 at 4:18 pmEverything you post is the source.
Look, either he destroyed you over there, twisted you up, and made you start lying, smearing and using sock puppets…
Or you were a liar, a smearer and a sock puppet user before he came along.
Which is it?
March 17th, 2009 at 4:21 pmThen why are you doing the same things he does/did?
March 17th, 2009 at 4:23 pmWhat source do you think I need? You want me to link to all the posts you made around various blue blogs complaining about some “patsy?” On this very thread, you complained about AAP being a psycho. On a recent one, you said he lied and smeared and used sock puppets. Well, guess what? That’s what you do. So you’re either emulating him or you were a liar, a smearer and a user of sock puppets beforehand. Which is it?
March 17th, 2009 at 4:26 pmhey fred garvin-
March 17th, 2009 at 4:26 pmDo you support AIG’s executive bonuses?
Can you tell me why Rush thinks they are a good idea?
thanks
well, this certainly explains the low self-esteem…
March 17th, 2009 at 4:26 pmOh, now you’re just being silly. Your hatred is obvious. No one here thinks you don’t hate. You’re objecting to my characterization that he destroyed you? After you encountered him, you started copying everything bad that you say he did. That’s “destroyed” in my book. Whatever part of you thought it might not be right to troll, lie, smear, and use sock puppets got wiped out after you met him. Or were you like this beforehand?
March 17th, 2009 at 4:32 pmI could give a rats ass what Rush says, unlike you. The aig execs should be sent to the Sunni Triangle along with barney frank, chris dodd and nancy pelosi.
Hey fred garvin!
Do you realize this is the first post of yours that is even close to addressing the TOPIC of this thread!
Congrats, buddy!
March 17th, 2009 at 4:32 pmI guess it kinda makes sense that fred garvin demands a source for things that are easily observable in the very thread in which he makes the demands.
After all, fred has demonstrated a tragic blindness to things in front of his face. He simply doesn’t understand that people can learn things by observing.
March 17th, 2009 at 4:33 pmSo, your just making shit up, right?
—
March 17th, 2009 at 4:36 pmNo. It really is your first post even somewhat related to the topic
Who, me? No, you’re a well documented liar and smearer. I’ve seen you accuse plenty of posters of things they never did with no proof whatsoever. For example, you accused one poster of saying disparaging things about Christians with no evidence to support it and you’ve accused me of being a troll with no evidence to support that. As for sock puppets, I’ve seen you use a variety of them here, and when I used to read the threads at NewsHounds, I saw you use plenty of them there.
When you accuse me of making that up, is that, like, some desperate attempt to deny reality?
March 17th, 2009 at 4:37 pmOkay fred garvin…
March 17th, 2009 at 4:41 pmCare to READ the thread- where we already covered the Freddie/Fannie argument and observe that we’ve already destroyed this popular REpublican meme several times over today?
Thanks.
Are you trying to tell us you don’t use sock puppets? Despite the fact that many other handles have the same conversational patterns as you, complain about “patsy”, say “Shocker!” etc. etc.?
How many have you used so far? Have you reached that magic 400 number you’re trying so desperately to emulate?
March 17th, 2009 at 4:44 pmoh and fred garvin?
the posting names related to television characters from the late 70’s and early 80’s is a dead give away… you might look elsewhere for your next incarnations appellation.
March 17th, 2009 at 4:45 pmNot in the least. You come off as someone who has been destroyed. I say “apparently” AAP is the one who destroyed you and made you into the well documented liar, smearer and sock puppet user we all know you to be. But I’m willing to believe that someone else did it to you or that you were like that before AAP came along. Which is it?
March 17th, 2009 at 4:47 pmtombaker Says:
Mary – I’ll join you on topic.
Why thank you! Let’s step out to the balcony, shall we?
It is tragic that, due to the way Wall St. “governs” itself, and the way R’s have intentionally failed to mitigate Wall St.’s impact on OUR economy, the very people who put the car in the ditch are not only being put back behind the wheel, they’re being given new cars that we’ll pay for.
That’s where the bottom line on all this crap lies.
You really wrapped it up right there. The “R’s” have pillaged things so thoroughly that we’re all being forced to learn and understand about things like ‘credit swaps’ for crying out loud. For our own survival.
March 17th, 2009 at 4:53 pmMeantime, those who got us here and those who cheerleaded them all the way seem surprised that the rest of us are pissed off.
March 17th, 2009 at 4:55 pmNot at all. I said AAP “apparently destroyed” you to make you the person you are today. I didn’t say he literally destroyed you. If he had, you wouldn’t be here. No, as I’ve said before and will reiterate, he must have destroyed whatever part of you thought it wasn’t cool to lie to people, to smear them, or to pretend to be someone you’re not. If you had a quality within you that told you it’s good to be a good person, he apparently destroyed that and left you in its wake.
Or you were a liar, a smearer and a sock puppet user before hand.
March 17th, 2009 at 4:58 pmSource?
March 17th, 2009 at 5:00 pmfred garvin: taxpayer-raping moron
March 17th, 2009 at 5:01 pmSource?
March 17th, 2009 at 5:01 pmSource?
March 17th, 2009 at 5:01 pmSource?
March 17th, 2009 at 5:02 pmSource?
March 17th, 2009 at 5:03 pmBecause I’m clearly speaking the truth.
So did AAP make you into his disciple? Or were you a lying, smearing, sock puppet using troll beforehand? Inquiring minds want to know.
March 17th, 2009 at 5:03 pmSource?
March 17th, 2009 at 5:03 pmSource?
(Hey, this is fun! You guys should try it!)
March 17th, 2009 at 5:04 pmfred garvin Says:
Back pedal, much?
Spoken from the cute little tricycle the RNC awarded you for your campaign trolling.
March 17th, 2009 at 5:06 pmSince fred garvin has been unable to provide a source for the many comments on which I’ve challenged him, by using his own standards it’s safe to say that he’s a liar.
March 17th, 2009 at 5:08 pmfred garvin Says:
Sock puppet=mcwars
This isn’t playskool, kid. You support bilking the taxpayers. It’s been your wrongdoing the last eight years. You have a history.
March 17th, 2009 at 5:10 pmMary @ 357, I agree largely with Bartcop, who I read regularly, who explains it all as a cycle of advantage taking by vested Money powers – The R’s wreck everything periodically so that old, big money can buy up everything in sight at firesale prices. then they let D’s fix everything, increasing the value of their holdings which are sold off selectively when values peak.
their pile ALWAYS gets bigger – that is the only real rule.
March 17th, 2009 at 5:13 pmralph @ 380
Come now ralph do you really think that is fair? Toying with the little ones is amusing but hardly sporting.
March 17th, 2009 at 5:40 pmSome people have said that Freddy is a baby raper. I have no respect for those who would defile the goodness of a child.
If my comments offend anyone here, then I am sorry they feel that way.
But you really shouldn’t rape babies Fred, it’s just not right.
March 17th, 2009 at 6:14 pmwhat in the h*ll are you rambling on about now, fredg?
March 17th, 2009 at 6:25 pmalpuz3
March 17th, 2009 at 6:26 pmI was sort of wondering about that myself. I was on the fence as to whether or not I wanted to bother. fred garvin seems to just be lonely and reaching out
dbadass, I have no problem with someone reaching out but couldn’t he at least wash his hands first?
March 17th, 2009 at 6:36 pmI think fredg has done gone lost his marbles… that last post was just the last few of them bouncing around the floor.
March 17th, 2009 at 6:39 pmWhat really amazes me is that considering he hasn’t ever posted a single cognizant thought, why does anyone even bother responding to his posts.
March 17th, 2009 at 6:40 pmStruck a nerve there?
Maybe those unknown sources were onto something.
March 17th, 2009 at 6:41 pmbehold – the power of crystal meth
every thread that hits 400 is driven there by an ice-smoking dittohead.
March 17th, 2009 at 6:50 pmWell, dbadass, I suppose you’re right, that it’s not really sporting. But how are these little ones gonna learn the ways of the world if we spoil them when they’re infants?
besides, fred g returned, but he didn’t try to dispute my logic. This proves conclusively that fred garvin is a liar.
But I have to give some credit to RHF. He’s given fred g such fits that fred has forgotten his Keith Olbermann obsession for a few minutes. I’m sure the break will do him good, since, as alpuz notes, it seems like fred’s train has done gone round de bend.
March 17th, 2009 at 7:01 pmPoor Freddy G is so in debt to Frito Lay that he needs every nickel he can find.
March 17th, 2009 at 7:09 pmStill holding on to that man crush I see, Freddy g.
March 17th, 2009 at 7:11 pmCare to come up with something even vaguely related to the topic?
March 17th, 2009 at 7:14 pmwell that didn’t last long.
I guess when a guy’s got it bad for another guy, like fred g’s got it bad for Keith, you can only distract him for so long.
March 17th, 2009 at 7:38 pmYup, sadly enough, Olbermann is his raison d’être.
March 17th, 2009 at 7:58 pmAh, we’re doing popular song lyrics now, eh?
Hows about…
going of the rails on a crazy train?
March 17th, 2009 at 8:18 pmWTF???
March 17th, 2009 at 8:29 pm“wow. weird, wild stuff, you guys…
…you hear about that, Ed? that lobo business?”
“Hi-yoooooo!! YES! Yes, I did hear about that…wild, that stuff”
March 17th, 2009 at 8:43 pmRebecca is f ucked up on some sort of goofballs I am afraid.
March 17th, 2009 at 9:43 pmRebecca, Rebecca, get ahold of yourself girl.
It’ll all be good when the peak has passed, give the windowpane a little time.
March 17th, 2009 at 10:16 pmPersonally, I find it very disturbing that the Right Wing is so emphatic in their defense of the Marines in Haditha who shot and killed a number of women and children (along with, I’m sure, some actual bad guys) and then lied and said the civilians were killed by a roadside bomb. Why are they being hailed as heroes?
March 17th, 2009 at 10:19 pmHaving lived in New York State most of my life, I know that you aren’t usually allowed to just hang out a shingle and call yourself whatever you want. For certain occupations, you have to have a license and be registered to work in New York State. Did these so-called “financial geniuses” at AIG’s Financial Products division have to have some kind of license to do this job? If so, take it away. If not, why would anyone hire them? They obviously suck at what they do.
March 17th, 2009 at 10:28 pm