Nation’s major newspapers ignore Iraq war’s sixth anniversary.
Nation’s major newspapers ignore Iraq war’s sixth anniversary.
Today marks six years since former President Bush launched the invasion of Iraq — a preventive war of choice based on “intelligence fixed around the policy.” Since that time, hundreds of billions of dollars have been spent, over 4,000 U.S. servicemen and women and hundreds more from coalition countries have died (tens of thousands more physically and mentally wounded), nearly 100,000 (or more) Iraqi civilians have parished and nearly 5 million have been displaced. Yet the New York Times, Washington Post, LA Times, Wall Street Journal, and many other major American newspapers are ignoring the anniversary today. Only USA Today printed a story noting the anniversary of the invasion. Today’s Progress Report has more on the good, the bad, and the ugly of developments surrounding the Iraq war over the last year.
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Featured Comment: The Dogfather says: I generally don’t like to defend WaPo, but they did have a major article in last Sunday’s paper marking the anniversary, focusing on the Iraqi point of view of the US invasion of their country and how that point of view differs from what’s typically reported in the US media (go figure…).
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I generally don’t like to defend WaPo, but they did have a major article in last Sunday’s paper marking the anniversary, focusing on the Iraqi point of view of the US invasion of their country and how that point of view differs from what’s typically reported in the US media (go figure…).
March 19th, 2009 at 12:03 pmThis was supposed to be a war of ideology and our own survival. Imminent attacks coming at any time from scary brown people. Now, six years later not one word from the cheerleaders who printed every lie Bushco uttered?
BTW: Why are we calling it a war? Was war declared, or did we just invade a soverign nation?
March 19th, 2009 at 12:10 pmI guess that means MSM will also ignore this weekends antiwar demonstrations as well.
March 19th, 2009 at 12:15 pmI wonder if they’ll skip the anniversary of “Mission Accomplished” as well?
March 19th, 2009 at 12:16 pm“Nation’s major newspapers ignore…..
…..and Think Progress ignores Chris Dodd.
¶ AIO
March 19th, 2009 at 12:17 pmNothing comes of war
March 19th, 2009 at 12:19 pmHourglass is on its side
Flowers in waiting
YOU CAN START BY STOP CALLING THE IRAQ INVASION AND OCCUPATION A “WAR.”
March 19th, 2009 at 12:19 pmalphainfinityomega Says:
“Nation’s major newspapers ignore…..
…..and Think Progress ignores Chris Dodd.
Oh no. Somebody just got up from their nap, and boy are they shrill – and off topic as well. You are not the brightest bulb in the lamp, are you? Rather dim, actually.
Go back to sleep, now. It’s time to be quiet.
March 19th, 2009 at 12:20 pmBen, you wrote, “invasion of Iraq — a preventative war of choice…” What war did the invasion prevent?
This was a Preemptive strike that instigated a war.
Maybe I’m arguing symantics here, but preemptive means to strike first, which was part of the pshchological reasoning to strike Saddam Hussein because we were told he had the WMD’s to strike us. Early reports from Great Brittain even had his capability down to 45 minutes. We were told that the need to strike first was paramount because Saddam presented himself as an imminent threat to our security. We were told by Bush at the U.N. “We cannot wait for the final proof : THE SMOKING GUN ! It could come in the form of a mushroom cloud.”
March 19th, 2009 at 12:21 pmThe silence from the cheerleaders of this war is deafening. Come on all you ignorant morons who supported the war what, not interested anymore? I’d like to see a bunch of the jerk-offs who supported the war march today and convince everyone else how great the war is and why it must continue indefinately into the future. Typical American attention span.
March 19th, 2009 at 12:25 pmAs long as American Idol is on, who cares about Iraq, thats old news. What a nation of chicken sh%ts we are.
StratRat,
March 19th, 2009 at 12:26 pmalphainfinityomega should ThinkFast, NO?
StratRat Says:
Nothing, per usual.
Hey Rat, Chris Dodd voted for the Iraq war too:; is that on topic enough for you.
¶ AIO
March 19th, 2009 at 12:28 pmArchie B.
March 19th, 2009 at 12:35 pmOT as usual…
pathetic as usual
March 19th, 2009 at 12:38 pmokay, john kerry’s actually funny. I’m starting to get the hang of his comedy.
March 19th, 2009 at 12:40 pmMy heart and prayers go out to all the military and their families that have had to pay a high (and sometimes ultimate) price for this ongoing invasion.
March 19th, 2009 at 12:40 pmMax-1 Says:
StratRat,
alphainfinityomega should ThinkFast, NO?
Sure.
What better way than to cover (up) something than by putting it in a thread that discusses at least five (5) issues and is basically an open thread.
¶ AIO
March 19th, 2009 at 12:41 pmgoing OT in the context of discussing a war that’s killed thousands, where our country has committed war crimes…
no, I’d say your the Most Pathetic winner
March 19th, 2009 at 12:41 pmalphainfinityomega,
March 19th, 2009 at 12:43 pmDon’t blame me. I was just pointing to the ON topic thread that discussed Dodd. That’s all.
HMM!
—
March 19th, 2009 at 12:43 pmSeems that John Kerry has finally started eating my vittles. Now as to Archie B we all know old Arch is petrified by me. I can say anything I want. Right Archie B.
AIO, you surely know from the one’s you follow that there are far better ways to cover up things.
I expect more from you. This thread topic is about a 6 year invasion that was ill conceived, improperly planned and quite likely illegally pushed down our throats.
If you want to stay pertinent then stick to the topic.
Otherwise the fine posters here will once again chew you up and spit you out.
As for Archie, I expect nothing from that pissant.
March 19th, 2009 at 12:45 pmit figures you GOP zombies would be out bright and early this morning on this thread- the perfect example of your brain dead ideology, the result of successful fearmongering and deceit, and the continued economic exploitation of MURDER. Good morning trolls!
March 19th, 2009 at 12:45 pmalphainfinityomega Says:
StratRat Says:
Nothing, per usual.
Hey Rat, Chris Dodd voted for the Iraq war too:; is that on topic enough for you.
Your rant was worthless and off topic (Dodd). It seems this discussion is travelling faster than your mind. Get your sleep. You need it.
March 19th, 2009 at 12:47 pmYou know what’s funny (in a sick kind of way)?
One of the reasons for the Iraq invasion, according to the Bush Government, was to save the Iraqis from the rule of the terrible Saddam Hussein. Kind of like “Wont someone think of the iraqis?”, if you will.
And yet, they didn’t even count the number of civilian casualties during the invasion. They even ordered the Iraqis to stop counting them, too.
Hell of a way to care about the Iraqi people.
March 19th, 2009 at 12:51 pmGood morning baby raper.
March 19th, 2009 at 12:54 pmThe sixth anniversary of the criminal never ending war launched by GWBush and the coalition of the willing. Trillions of dollars dumped into this war, a mechanism designed to bring America and the world to ruin. Money and jobs are taken away from the people for a never ending war based on lies.
I hear so many people and politicians talking about the dismal state of the world economy but no one talks about what the criminal war is doing to the economy. The money and the jobs are gone but the criminal wars go on. ECONOMIC COLLAPSE IS A DIRECT CONSEQUENCE OF TRILLIONS MISSPENT IN A CRIMINAL WAR!
March 19th, 2009 at 12:56 pmJohn Kerry
March 19th, 2009 at 12:58 pmWhat is the deal with you? You ask of my employment. I tell you. You can’t find it. I have to tell you numerous times. Yet all I ever ask of you is to explain your obsession with the bold function. Is there a reason you seems so reluctant to answer?
Hey, RAT:
Chris Dodd voted for the war, take it up with him.
¶ AIO
March 19th, 2009 at 12:58 pm#29 TROLL KERRY,
IF… maybe, maybe NOT!
But your good old dog Bushie DID!!! No IF about that, NO?
See, the difference between reality and your mind can be found in FACTS!
March 19th, 2009 at 1:00 pmI can tell you from personal experience that Major Newspapers are in a panic mode right now. Meetings of all kinds, layoffs threatening reporters, photographer, editors, support staff alike. MSM has always been narcisistic and narrow-minded. “The Powers” that control what gets published are completely out of touch with their readers.
Recognizing the illegal invasion and pillaging of a foreign country is NOT what Newpapers want to remind people of, right now.
March 19th, 2009 at 1:01 pmalphainfinityomega,
March 19th, 2009 at 1:01 pmSo why do you take Dodd up with us?
alphainfinityomega Says:
Hey, RAT:
Chris Dodd voted for the war, take it up with him.
Wow…You really got me on that one. Good job. With every post, you validate our concern for the modern conservative movement. Every post is another reason for America to disregard your beliefs and ideology. You may want to limit your outreach to the sane community. Really, think about it.
March 19th, 2009 at 1:03 pmI have done my part by turning to my co-workers and neighbors who are Republicursed and thanking them for voting for Bush.
March 19th, 2009 at 1:04 pmLatest gallup on Iraq and Afghanistan:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/116920/Optimism-Iraq-Less-Afghanistan.aspx
Views are softening on opposition to the war in Iraq and hardening against Afghanistan.
March 19th, 2009 at 1:11 pmAnything of substance to say, Klatu? or are you just here to try to suck some of the intelligence out of this thread?
March 19th, 2009 at 1:11 pmJohn Kerry Says:
If the Messiah was running for President now you’d better believe that the left wing media would somehow find something BAD going on in Iraq to report on EVEN IF they have to invent it (HINT: comedian Olbermann!)
March 19th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
___________
SO did the left wing media make this up:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/212/story/64263.html
March 19th, 2009 at 1:12 pmHey Backup,
did you read this part of that Gallup poll?
These results are based on a March 14-15 USA Today/Gallup poll, conducted just before the six-year anniversary of the U.S. invasion of Iraq. As the United States is reducing the size of its military force in Iraq and increasing its troop strength in Afghanistan, the public’s opinions about the two wars seem to be adjusting accordingly.
Probably has something to do with the reduction of troops there, you moron. God the stupid hurts sometimes.
March 19th, 2009 at 1:14 pmYou should know what you talk about before you open your mouth and trip over the bouncy tail of your own tongue.
You don’t know me moron, to say something as stupid as you have just said.
March 19th, 2009 at 1:20 pmSince somebody brought it up here: C&L explores the Dodd squad.
March 19th, 2009 at 1:25 pmI just checked the two print dailies I get. The NY Daily News didn’t mention Iraq in any way until page 23, bottom of the page, with the headline ‘Gates puts stop to stop-loss’. No mention of any anniversary.
Of course, the owner of the NY Daily News, Mort Zuckerman, may still be somewhat upset with Bernie Madoff, after a trust of Mort’s took a big hit thanks to Bernie, so there’s a front-cover pic of Madoff with a page 3 story with the headline ‘Inside Bernie’s Hellhole’. That crap and lots of AIG, AIG.
My local paper’s page 3 headline (their Nation/World page) says ‘Conditions better in Iraq’.
First paragraph:
“Six years after the U.S. invaded Iraq, the end of America’s costly mission is in sight, but the future of this tortured mission is much less clear.”
The headline doesn’t jive with the tone of the story at all, which ncludes lines like, ‘genuine reconciliation remains elusive’ and ‘There is no harmony among Iraqi leaders’ and ends saying that the goal to establish a Western-style democracy in the heart of the Middle East was “only partially achieved”.
(While trying to find it on their online edition I bumped into this little fun bit of news though, ‘Two top American military commanders say the United States is “fully prepared to respond” to North Korea’s planned rocket launch next month, calling it a threat to U.S. security.’ lots of dirty words)
March 19th, 2009 at 1:31 pmThanks for the post toasterhead. Sad reminders of what John Kerryhere thinks is victory.
He’s using “The math” that he learned from Rove.
Maybe he can man up and enlist to fully feel the effects of victory.
Doubt he pass the entrance exam.
March 19th, 2009 at 1:31 pm@ DaTruth: Anyone who says that the current economic condition is a direct result of US military action in the middle east has no understanding of the current economic condition, or our current military presence in the middle east.
@Stratrat: Check your history. Vietnam WAR was an occupation . It was a military engagement authorized by congress. The President has the power to wage war under the war powers act. Basically, you cannot say it was an illegal war without being completely wrong. So yes, you can call this a war.
@ Krystal views: Pillaging? There was nothing to pillage. Do you have any military or historical knowledge of US invovlement in Iraq after DS?
I’m not agreeing with the invasion of iraq and the extreme short sightedness (to sugarcoat it) of the political leadership. If you really think this was supposed to be a war of ideology, at the least you really need to do some research on US foreign policy and military history
March 19th, 2009 at 1:43 pmRealness. I agree it has something to do with troop strength.
I was trying to be less divisive, but you brought it up.
I think the opposition to Iraq was less about the ideology of how we got into the war and more about troop deaths.
Troops are no longer dying in Iraq, but because we are shifting focus to Afghanistan, we experience more troop deaths there. Less opposed to Iraq, more opposed to Afghanistan.
People weren’t opposed to Iraq because of premises that lead to it. They were opposed because our soldiers were dying there.
March 19th, 2009 at 1:44 pmTHINK THINK THINK one thing is military action misspent trillions huge amounts of money dumped into a war zone is another
March 19th, 2009 at 1:48 pmthinkthinkthink Says:
@ Krystal views: Pillaging? There was nothing to pillage. Do you have any military or historical knowledge of US invovlement in Iraq after DS?
March 19th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
______________
Are you kidding?
Nothing to pillage?
What about the government of Iraq, which was sold off in privatized chunks to the lowest bidders?
What about the banking system, which was sold to foreign banks?
What about the reconstruction, which was sold off to a menagerie of corporations, and has failed to produce reliable water and sanitation and electricity after six years?
What about the economy, which was sold off to the neoliberals in the IMF under a restructuring that has decimated Iraq’s manufacturing and agricultural sectors and imposed crippling sanctions on the people by cutting fuel and other subsidies?
And what about all that oil, which is being sold off to the major foreign oil companies under production-sharing agreements?
But yeah, after all that, there’s nothing left to pillage in Iraq.
March 19th, 2009 at 1:50 pmBackup wrote the closest thing I have seen to correct. Soldiers were dying without a clear and coherent strategy presented to the american people for victory–there was no understanding of why they were dying–people couldnt see the need for it and protested. Unless you were one of those nuts who has a sign in their car for everything–Iraq one day, the environment tuesday, abortion or not on wednesday–some people just like to protest. Less protests as deaths have gone down.
Troop deaths will rise in Afghanistan over the summer when combat picks up. This enemy is a REAL threat, and pakistan is a country we must monitor closely. It is the reality of the situation.
Did ya know 1/3 of deaths in Iraq were not even combat related? wowzzas.
March 19th, 2009 at 1:52 pmBackup,
complete BS. There is no discussion with you. You first drop mis-informed links with your own spin, and then once refuted (again and again) try to do this pseudo discussion. I think you might have a personality disorder. my responses will only be to your initial deceitful posts and links, just to clear the air of your stupidity.
March 19th, 2009 at 1:54 pmThinkthinkthink:
“Backup wrote the closest thing I have seen to correct.”
“some people just like to protest.”
the stupid is strong in you. you are irrelevant to the adult conversation.
March 19th, 2009 at 1:55 pmbackup Says:
Troops are no longer dying in Iraq
March 19th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
______________
Really? Tell that to the family of Spc. Gary L. Moore:
March 19th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
HUssein:
You just gave a wonderful run down of how the world works. They had no effective banking system in the first place. Their government? Was non existent-it was a DICTATOR– Saddam Hussein so yea nothing there. Dont confuse power structure with government. Reconstruction being sold off to private corporations isnt a bad thing, much of the utilities you say they dont have (which they dont and didnt have before) in our own country are privatized. What did Iraq manufacture? Find me something that says “made in iraq.”
And the oil–there ya go. What about that gem? Of course they arent going to let a failed state in the midst of reconstruction run the show from the get-go. You seem no to have a realistic view of this world.
March 19th, 2009 at 1:58 pmRealness:
This is coming from the person who has written the following gems:
“pathetic as usual”
“okay, john kerry’s actually funny. I’m starting to get the hang of his comedy.”
“it figures you GOP zombies would be out bright and early this morning on this thread- the perfect example of your brain dead ideology, the result of successful fearmongering and deceit, and the continued economic exploitation of MURDER. Good morning trolls!”
So substance based. you sound like a 18 year old wanna be who acts like they know something but cant think of anything intelligent to say. You should just write “I HAVE A GALLUP POLL BUT NO UNDERSTANDING OF ANYHTING…”
March 19th, 2009 at 2:02 pmActually, that should have been TTT@ #60. But you’re still an idiot in both places…
March 19th, 2009 at 2:09 pmTTT@ #61: his name isn’t “Hussein,” it’s Toasterhead. If you were more than a troll-come-lately in this community, you’d know that, and you’d also know why he goes by “Hussein Toasterhead”.
Ah, but I digress — and you’re still an idiot.
March 19th, 2009 at 2:09 pmwow — now I’ve gotten access to the wayback machine…scary stuff…
March 19th, 2009 at 2:10 pmI love the arrogance and condescension of our trolls: “I’m so much smarter and knowledgeable than any of you” the subtext of which is “I don’t have to substantiate anything I say, because if I say it it must be true.”
Oh, and the other brand of troll (i.e. Archie) whose “contribution” is “neener neener neener”.
March 19th, 2009 at 2:12 pmI guess you must’ve missed my other posts. Especially the one where I refuted someone’s misuse of a Gallup Poll. Hmmmm, you’re pretty selective. You are uninformed, to say the least. So let’s get down to business, thinker:
Reconstruction being sold off to private corporations isnt a bad thing, much of the utilities you say they dont have (which they dont and didnt have before) in our own country are privatized.
Are you unaware of the missing millions, possibly billions that have just been ‘lost’ in contracts to private corporations? Are you also unaware of the corporate ties of many in the Bush regime to these contractors? Or maybe that President Obama had to re-instate fair competition ordinances back for these contracts?
And curious that you don’t mention the destruction of Iraq’s infrastructure. Are you aware that they had an organized utility system before we bombed them back to the stoneage?
As far as our quality private utilities- why don’t you take a swim in some Clean Coal sludge? Or hang out in high-cancer hot spots in Texas?
You have no idea what you’re saying. It’s like you jumped from a bad right wing AM radio station just to argue on a progressive blog.
March 19th, 2009 at 2:13 pmDogfather: I dont need to write his full name as you dont need to write mine. Troll-come lately to what community? TP community? Does Toasterhead need some sorta defense from you? i doubt it. I apologize toasterhead.
Uh yea I would be willing to bet i have had more contact with TP then you and probably CAP who they are but not really affiliated with– id be willing to bet. But youre still an idiot. You cant have an opinion, comment or insight? That’s what you write? Youre not even an idiot, you’re a waste of space.
Disagree all you want with what I said, argue it, who cares about TP community status and an alias
March 19th, 2009 at 2:17 pmthinkthinkthink Says:
HUssein:
You just gave a wonderful run down of how the world works. They had no effective banking system in the first place. Their government? Was non existent-it was a DICTATOR– Saddam Hussein so yea nothing there. Dont confuse power structure with government. Reconstruction being sold off to private corporations isnt a bad thing, much of the utilities you say they dont have (which they dont and didnt have before) in our own country are privatized. What did Iraq manufacture? Find me something that says “made in iraq.”
And the oil–there ya go. What about that gem? Of course they arent going to let a failed state in the midst of reconstruction run the show from the get-go. You seem no to have a realistic view of this world.
March 19th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
______________
I have a very realistic view of this world, as a matter of fact, and particularly how U.S. foreign policy is used as a tool of corporate interests in exploiting this world.
Now, allow me to address your idiocy point by point.
1. Yes, Iraq did have an effective banking system.
2. Iraq had a government, with ministries for oil and electricity and agriculture and foreign affairs and all those other things governments do. A dictatorship is still a government, and when we invaded, this government was carved up and sold to private contractors.
3. Privatization of basic services is often quite detrimental for a population, particularly one used to these services being centralized and subsidized previously. It’s not just Iraq – ask the people of Bolivia how they like having to pay Bechtel for their water. How would you like to pay foreign companies for your electricity and sewers? Especially when that electricity is only on six hours a day, and the water is filled with worms and bacteria?
4. Iraq did have a manufacturing sector, and still does. They manufacture everything from TVs to construction materials to air conditioners to bicycles to medical equipment, according to their Ministry of Industry and Metals. However, as Iraqi VP Tariq al-Hashemi stated last week, it is suffering under IMF restrictions:
Any other talking points you need refuted?
March 19th, 2009 at 2:24 pmThe Dogfather Says:
TTT@ #61: his name isn’t “Hussein,” it’s Toasterhead. If you were more than a troll-come-lately in this community, you’d know that, and you’d also know why he goes by “Hussein Toasterhead”.
March 19th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
_________
Thank you! Though I certainly don’t mind being referred to by either name – Hussein is a beautiful Arabic name I’m proud to adopt as an additional pseudonym.
March 19th, 2009 at 2:26 pmI remember when the whole “Hussein” wave hit here at TP. Glad to see the idea marching on.
March 19th, 2009 at 2:29 pmHaHa
Realness you make good points.
We did indeed destroy the majority of infrastructure. However, in order to operate in Iraq, the military had to rebuild many of the roads, build new buildings, new pipe lines to support military operations, which in turn supported civilian operations. The problem has been they kept getting blown up, rebuilt, blown up rebuilt–ammounting to not much of anything. Lets be honest though, their “organized” utility system was as organized as a third world nation and did not service the majority of Iraq reliably after Gulf War 1.
Quality of private utilities. Privitization of utilities is the only real answer to the problem. The Iraqi government cannot afford it. Our Corps of Engineers dont have the manpower to take on civilian projects in Iraq–leaving private contracts to be the only viable option. We do this in our military in the US.
The reinstating of fair competition ordinances is a little misleading–theree was no competition in iraq after it was blown away. So now that there is a little bit of something rebuilt, the competition “guidlines” have changed a little bit. It isnt really even “re”instating.
It would probably kill you to know im about as far from right wing as I am from left wing. Think Progress is not as much Progressive as it is left. I worked at CAP. Thanks, I am your progressive.
March 19th, 2009 at 2:36 pmAmerica honor’s those 3000 Americans lost on Sept. 11, 2001 but never give a second thought to those 151,000 Iraq men/woman/children sleeping in their beds on March 20, 2003 as the United States killed them. We don’t care that we displaced with the invasion over 5 million Iraq people. We are a proud Country that is the Global Leader in Human Rights and Democracy yet when we look in the mirror we see Evil.
March 19th, 2009 at 2:49 pmthinkthought?
March 19th, 2009 at 2:49 pmThinker,
I find your responses bizarre, suspiciously selective in what they respond to, and your definition of progressivism pretty weird. I’m glad you found gainful employment at CAP, but for all I know, you could have been filing accounting information in the basement. But I think I’ll live through all this mystery just fine. Have a good day. I especially look forward to your reponse to Hussein Toasterhead.
March 19th, 2009 at 2:50 pmDoes this mean they converted to Catholicism?
March 19th, 2009 at 2:59 pmWAYNEBRO Says:
nearly 100,000 (or more) Iraqi civilians have parished
Does this mean they converted to Catholicism?
March 19th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
____________
Or moved to one of Louisiana’s parishes.
March 19th, 2009 at 3:05 pmYES Hussein (which I never meant in any bad way which i get the impression dogfather was trying to spin that as a negative) GOOD POST. That’s good stuff.
IM goign to jump around a bit in responses using your numbers
2. A dictatorship is indeed still a government. To clarify my point and respond to yours: Bathist Officials that were at the head of those ministries followed an agenda set by the dictator. So while they existed, they were for the most part figurehead appointments. The state of those ministries were extremely week after Gulf War 1. After the invasion and toppling of the dictatorship, US war planning expected the iraqi military to assume many of the roles as tehy would have some structure already in place. We screwed that up–on purpose or not thats your call–but regardless the situation was left where private contracting was again the only viable means at the time in 2003.
1. The banking system point you make I think goes after more of what I was saying with regards to “nothing to pillage.” $1.8 billion in assets, or about 86 percent of the total assets in Iraq’s banking system. RRRRRRRReally? Thats nothing. I mean its something to them, but in the grand scheme of US efforts in iraq and the banking system–thats really not alot of money. Im leaving alot open here, but wanted to right something real quick.
3. Privitization of utilities, sure, I would not want it outsourced to a foreign coutnry. But please dont make it soudn like the Iraqi people were living in an even similar environment to what we do. They had NOTHING. Between the sanctions, no fly zone, etc. that we maintained after desert storm, that country was on lock down and the people were living in EXTREMELY poor conditions. It is not hard to find tons of information on Iraqi living conditions between 1992 and 2003. What is somewhat ironic, is the one thing that could make it worse would be a war. one that was unnecessary. Privitization again, I would have to say in this case, better than nothing (again i am not addressing corporate ties to the bush regime blablabla)
4. I dont have time to hit this as fully as I would like, but please read this report–it shows some good numbers that would also address the financial point you made. Minaly look at the CBI and its overall growth compared to pre-2003. Also, I would look at GDP growth.
Thoughts?
March 19th, 2009 at 3:06 pmDidnt want this to get lost in all that:
http://www.imf.org/external/np/loi/2008/irq/112908.pdf
March 19th, 2009 at 3:07 pmthinkthinkthink Says:
3. Privitization of utilities, sure, I would not want it outsourced to a foreign coutnry. But please dont make it soudn like the Iraqi people were living in an even similar environment to what we do. They had NOTHING. Between the sanctions, no fly zone, etc. that we maintained after desert storm, that country was on lock down and the people were living in EXTREMELY poor conditions.
And 6 years later, they’re still living in Extremely poor conditions, and since the USA were in charge those 6 years, the responsibility falls directly on your shoulders.
March 19th, 2009 at 3:38 pmRealness:
My responses are selective, it is certainly hard to respond to everything all the time. They would also probably come off as bizarre compared to what is normally written on TP. Progressive in my view is going down its own weird path. Looking historically at who the progressives were, and how that translates today, I worry that is becoming the “left” –which it shouldnt be. There are progressive republicans as there are progressive dems–chuck hagel is a good example. I tend not to see that reflected here. Ha no I was not an accountant, which has to be one of the worst lines of work ever-especially at a nonprofit. This blog tends to make me want to argue, not because I disagree, it is just so one sided. The debate that has resulted, I think, has been a good one. I wish I could write more in responses, but as I think most of us do–I have a day job.
March 19th, 2009 at 3:41 pmb-cup says:
For being such a cheerleader for this travesty, how come YOUR ass is not in the army?
CHICKENSHIT!
March 19th, 2009 at 3:45 pmI’m willing to bet this tink-tink-tink person doesn’t have a job right now and spends most of its time spreading misinformation for its failed philosophical way of life.
Thanks Hussein Toasterhead. You showed it that idependent thought is something repugnicans are NOT used to and can not deal with FACTS when confronted with them.
March 19th, 2009 at 3:46 pmLuis M is right. Iraq reconstruction has been extremely mishandled. It is hard to reconstruct infrastructure utilities etc. (yes after we blew them up), while still fighting an insurgency, rebuild a government (which yes we overthrew) there are a million examples. They all land on poor poor poor political leadership and 6 years later we see the result of that leadership. HOpefully afghanistan will be a different story.
March 19th, 2009 at 3:47 pmSo what’s new. They managed to ignore Bush’s war since it began. Purposefully. And most television stations have long since stopped covering the war. We have no reporters in Iraq or Afghanistan either. Some foreign reporters are but not ours.
After accepting all the Bush’s lies for so many years, and allowing them to go unchallenged, you would at least think they could pretend to care. Pretense is something they do all the time. More hard hitting journalistic integrity. Right?
March 19th, 2009 at 3:50 pm@Krystal — Na. Happy to say the military industrial complex is running strong and so is government contracting! I’ve been at CAP, I have worked for hte army. So has larry korb, in the same field as me, and I have talked to him about it–wish he would write here. I could probably go farther and say im privied to more information than you.
Dont jump to odd-ball paranoid conclusions either. Hussein makes good points (and what this is as hussein said, is all talking points, hence the debate), and talks to the issue more than anything, I think he would agree (since he sounded like someone who could make an arguement), this isnt a repugnicians thing, its not as if either of us are making these things up (actually krystal its comments like that that make you sound like an airhead who doesnt know really anything about anything). There are lots of facts out there, go interpret them, come back and write something. Stop reading huffington post all day
March 19th, 2009 at 3:59 pmAnd in all fairness the whol PROGRESSIVE thing–i guess response to Realness–this is what I am talking about:
The term “progressive” is today often used in place of “liberal”. Although the two are related in some ways, they are separate and distinct political ideologies. According to John Halpin, senior advisor on the staff of the Center for American Progress, “Progressivism is an orientation towards politics, It’s not a long-standing ideology like liberalism, but an historically-grounded concept… that accepts the world as dynamic.” Progressives see progressivism as an attitude towards the world of politics that is broader than conservatism vs. liberalism, and as an attempt to break free from what they consider to be a false and divisive dichotomy.”
March 19th, 2009 at 4:05 pmI can’t stress this enough. A “preemptive” attack does mean to attack first—when an enemy attack is imminent or taking place. Our invasion of Iraq was “preventive”—what Nuremberg was about.
March 19th, 2009 at 4:31 pmtink thing
Who’s jumping to odd-ball paranoid conclusions? Yeah, right. Like your “brainwashed talking points” don’t come across LOUDLY and CLEARLY.
I work in a Newsroom, a very REPUGNICAN newsroom. I’ve heard it all before. Go somewhere else. We’re trying to debate ideas in an intelligent manner. Distortion of facts – like the ones you spew – should just be ignore.
I know I will.
March 19th, 2009 at 4:37 pmKrystalspew:
Like your radical half-wit comments dont come across? A Newsroom? Have you ever worked at an Army HQ Command? Do you deal with SEL civilians and GOs everyday? You think you have heard it all? DEBATE is great–and I will give it to realness and hussein who actually do. There is intelligent and specific points in what they say and what they cite. What have you said besides repugnicians, thats all you say. Ive been a registered Dem for years. I would guess you being involved in media would understand spin, what you need to learn from hussein and realness–especially hussein in this case–is how to find facts and know how to use them. You really havent said a single, intelligent thought on iraq, economics, middle east politics, us foreign policy, military strategy, us view from abroad…really any number of points that could contribute. You just said repugnician, and somehow that satifies you. you sound like a little old lady who doesnt know what shes saying.
March 19th, 2009 at 4:55 pmBut then again, this is no forum for just bashing. Its your perspectives and types of comments that makes me want to write something anyways. Krystalview, i apologize for the rant. You make great points
March 19th, 2009 at 5:02 pmthinkthinkthink-
I have read John Halperin’s definition of progressivism
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2004/01/b18188.html
I have a few issues with the naming of past progressives, and even the authoritative claiming of the word “progressive,” but I generally agree with it. Sometimes I feel like the domestic/social policy stuff is a little too laissez-faire and maybe that’s “liberal” ideology. Maybe not laissez-faire, but overly optimistic that the “non-ideological” center of the country will make informed decisions on civil and equal rights cases.
I even read through a little of Larry Korb’s stuff. Like this thread, I think that at the end of the day, there’s more to be in agreement about than disagreement.
The only thing I’d give you a heads-up about is your approach to this blog and its threads. There is a level of defensiveness on this blog that I believe is because people come here to pick fights, get people riled up. It’s created a culture where it’s very difficult to have a thoughtful conversation with people that disagree with you. Things get shrill very fast, as you have seen. I think you need to understand that this isn’t just a “leftist” echo chamber. People disagree and argue the fine and broad points here, even though it gets really difficult when there is so much disrespect. I don’t think everyone is enlightened on here, and there’s a lot of anger at a lot of injustice.
you can’t just sweep in and pick off people’s comments because you disagree. Respect goes both ways, and I think fits into your progressive identification.
March 19th, 2009 at 5:21 pmRealness–I agree with you on the progressives and the defensive thing. Thats why i apologized to krystal as well. I dont come here to pick fights at all, i mean ive been droppin by TP for a while, just never really felt the inclination to write something. I do get a little miffed though when I see someone saying things that are so indicative of a “leftist echo chamber” (even if it is not the majority of posts) and it spurs the inclination to call someone out on it. Not pick a fight, but if you’re going to make a point, make it well. And I must give you props, it is reflected in your posts that you do this as do others and I am glad to have discussed these issues today. However, coming on here and seeing someone say “its the republicans fault we are in afhganistan and iraq.”–a comment like that is SO uninformed SO BS that it really makes me mad. Im a dem, im a progressive, i tend to think the republican party is going to who really knows where, but there is more than one side to every story, and not to point them out, not to listen to the other side and just say your this party so you are dumb, detracts or does not allow for constructive debate which is important on a venue such as think progress. i dunno just some thoughts there.
March 19th, 2009 at 8:46 pmMSM is worthless.
March 19th, 2009 at 8:46 pm.
REMEMBER the absurdly HIGH GAS PRICES during the IRAQ WAR.
REMEMBER how the Wall Street Speculators drove the prices up to
$ 5.00 a gallon
in some states.
Think of what that did to your family budget and our Economy.
It destroyed it.
The high prices amounted to an Oil Industry TAX on you and me, not approved by Congress, but engineered by the Bush Oil Boosters
Like Cheney.
Examples must be made of Bush appointee lawyers who lied about
WMD, aluminum tubes, & Niger Uranium to con Congress into approving an invasion of Iraq, a country that did not have anything to do with 9-11.
Was it all just to Help The oil Industry make a Killing?
If we as a people hope to force our public officials to obey our laws and our Constitution,
the time is Now
and the way to do it is
to prosecute members of the Bush administration
who violated Federal Laws,
including the law against Torturing prisoners.
The reason that we continue to have unnecessary wars of choice is
that Congress makes excuses for lawbreaking officials instead of impeaching or prosecuting them.
There was no doubt that 9-11 needed to be avenged, but Bush had another agenda.
In WW-II, in 4 years, FDR put 13,000,000 men in the fight, beat 3 dictatorships, their leaders dead at the end.
After 7 years of War On Terror, neither Bush nor Cheney could find Osama Bin Laden, our US reputation is in the gutter, we’re still at war, over 4,200 US Soldiers are dead, over 30,000 maimed for the Bush-Cheney arrogance & lies. They ordered Torture, a violation of Federal Law.
Unless Obama’s statement that “no one is above the law” is a lie,
Obama must appoint a Special Prosecutor
Sign The Petition To Prosecute
http://ANGRYVoters.org
Over 63,000 have signed
Join them!
.
March 22nd, 2009 at 5:24 pm