ThinkFast: April 3, 2009
ThinkFast: April 3, 2009
President Obama’s budget passed the House and Senate yesterday, by votes of 233-196 and 55-43, respectively. No Republicans voted for the budget in either chamber. Twenty House Democrats voted against the budget.
The House Republicans’ alternative budget was rejected by a 293-137 vote. Thirty-eight members — or 20 percent — of the House Republican caucus voted against their own party’s budget proposal, written by Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI). By contrast, only 8 percent of Democrats voted against their party’s budget.
“Arctic sea ice is melting so fast most of it could be gone in 30 years,” according to a new government-backed study. “The Arctic is often called the Earth’s refrigerator because the sea ice helps cool the planet by reflecting the sun’s radiation back into space,” said researcher Muyin Wang. “With less ice, the sun’s warmth is instead absorbed by the open water, contributing to warmer temperatures in the water and the air.”
A federal judge ruled yesterday that “some prisoners held by the American military in Afghanistan have a constitutional right to challenge their imprisonment in United States civilian courts.” The judge said that three detainees at the U.S. Air Force base at Bagram are “virtually identical” to detainees at Guantánamo and so they have the same legal rights that the Supreme Court granted prisoners there last year.
In a symbolic gesture, French President Nicolas Sarkozy says he will accept one terrorist suspect being held at the Guantanamo Bay prison camp. Saying that he was determined to “speak the truth,” Sarkozy said that Guantanamo “was not in keeping with U.S. values.”
Roadside bombs “cause 75% of casualties to coalition forces in Afghanistan, up from 50% two years ago, prompting urgent pleas from commanders there for more armored vehicles to protect troops.” Defense Secretary Robert Gates will meet today with a task force “meant to speed Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) vehicles to war zones.”
In a 19-count indictment yesterday, federal prosecutors charged Illinois governor Rod Blagojevich with 16 felonies, including racketeering conspiracy, wire fraud, extortion conspiracy, attempted extortion and making false statements to federal agents. Five of Blagojevich’s closest advisers, including his brother, were also charged with crimes.
The leaders of the G20 nations “produced large achievements” at the London summit yesterday, pledging “the first-ever global regulation of hedge funds and private-equity firms,” vowing “to crack down on tax haven nations,” and pledging “$1.1 trillion to the International Monetary Fund and related institutions to help revive the global economy.”
Paul Krugman writes that China’s call for a “super-sovereign reserve currency” was an admission of weakness. “In effect, he was saying that China had driven itself into a dollar trap, and that it can neither get itself out nor change the policies that put it in that trap in the first place,” he writes. But, CAP’s Scott Lilly adds, “China’s accumulation of U.S. debt is unsustainable.”
And finally: “Do you have any hidden desires? Well, if you feel like getting nasty then you came to the right place.” That was the message the White House press corps heard yesterday when it dialed into a conference call expecting to hear Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and National Security Advisor Jim Jones discussing the NATO summit. The White House had accidentally sent out the wrong number — one that directed reporters to a sex line. Asked for comment by Fox, Deputy White House Press Secretary Bill Burton said the mishap “is probably one of the stupider things Fox News has covered lately.”
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Let the game begin. I haven’t read the passed budget but from reports it gives the President most everything he wanted. After a disastrous exposure to the health care system in place I can only say change is needed. I was charged 3500.00 for an hour and 15 mins. A broken thumb not casted put in a splint an 8th grader could have accomplished the same thing Yikes.
April 3rd, 2009 at 9:09 amGood morning, campers. TGIF
April 3rd, 2009 at 9:11 amYou bet Faux snooze will be all over ANY gaffe the administration makes- ESPECIALLY if/when any hint of sex(real or imagined). They’ll be all over this like flies on shit.
Asked for comment by Fox, Deputy White House Press Secretary Bill Burton said the mishap “is probably one of the stupider things Fox News has covered lately.”
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It’s true that it isn’t really earthshaking news, but you gotta admit, it IS funny. Certainly worth a laugh we could all use at the end of the week. As much as I hate Fox News, I’d give them a pass on this one.
April 3rd, 2009 at 9:11 amBill Burton said the mishap “is probably one of the stupider things Fox News has covered lately.”
That’s saying something. The FoxNews cafeteria must be serving Condensed Cream of Stupid these days.
April 3rd, 2009 at 9:12 amWell, duh. There was not one penny in there to ramp up demand and help pull the economy out of recession. Paul “Hoover” Ryan not only wanted to end the Obama stimulus cold, he wanted to make the Bush tax cuts all permanent, cut even more the top rate for the wealthy and eliminate completed all inheritance taxes. Oh, and he would increase defense spending in the face of massive tax cuts. The surprising thing is that 80% of Republicans embrace a Hoover-like budget.
April 3rd, 2009 at 9:15 am“Arctic sea ice is melting so fast most of it could be gone in 30 years,” according to a new government-backed study. “The Arctic is often called the Earth’s refrigerator because the sea ice helps cool the planet by reflecting the sun’s radiation back into space,” said researcher Muyin Wang. “With less ice, the sun’s warmth is instead absorbed by the open water, contributing to warmer temperatures in the water and the air.”
Good thing there’s no such thing as Global Warming and this is just a phase…..
/snark
April 3rd, 2009 at 9:16 amOn Tuesday, Larry Kudlow said that he wanted the US to become “One great big tax haven.” I guess this kinda torpedoes that one…
April 3rd, 2009 at 9:22 amAsked for comment by Fox, Deputy White House Press Secretary Bill Burton said the mishap “is probably one of the stupider things Fox News has covered lately.”
Oh, now…. as long as FOX did not misrepresent this issue, this one is fair game. If they just report it accurately with no spin, then it is funny and makes their partizan base happy as it displays an actual error.
And it IS funny.
Did the voice sound anything like Hillary?
April 3rd, 2009 at 9:26 amAmerica finally has a President.
Even battling a tough cold virus, President Obama kept his focus and, on point, admitted to the World the USA has a huge economic reclamation ahead.
Olbermann’s show displayed one pic of about 15 World leaders smiling & projecting unity. That’s a great place to start.
I know, Watchpup will be here shortly, copying & pasting irrelevant bylines about how bad our President is. The upside is that World leaders are looking to President Obama for leadership.
They’re looking at the right man.
April 3rd, 2009 at 9:28 amAny truth to the rumor that O’Reilly is still on the line?
snark
April 3rd, 2009 at 9:37 amThe upside is that World leaders are looking to President Obama for leadership
That’s for sure. Wasn’t it at the last G-20 meeting where those depressing pictures were taken of GDumbya taking his place for the group photo and none of the other leaders were even acknowledging his presence?
We still have a rocky road ahead of us but, at least, we are on the road and not being driven further into the ditch.
April 3rd, 2009 at 9:37 amI bet republincans hate it that Pres. Obama did great at the G-20, Bush would’ve started another war.
April 3rd, 2009 at 9:38 amJust can’t say enough about how nice it is to have a real President in the White House, who can step on the world stage and act and talk like an adult. When was the last time a President had a town hall meeting with average people of the world? What a huge difference this man is compared to the “My way or the Highway” thug we had for the last eight years.
April 3rd, 2009 at 9:40 amBy the way, TP –
April 3rd, 2009 at 9:40 amall of the comments to posts have been numbered “1″ since sometime yesterday. What’s up with that? Please get it fixed — it’s been hard to work through the threads.
Brian Crooks Says:
On Tuesday, Larry Kudlow said that he wanted the US to become “One great big tax haven.”
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Like some sort of king-sized Caribbean banana republic? Well, we’re already half-way there thanks to Botch…
April 3rd, 2009 at 9:41 amThe FOX WH press reporter was probably surprised and a bit embarassed when he dialed in for the conference call:
FOX reporter(dialing), “OK let’s see what that b1tch Hillary is selling…”
voice on phone, “Do you have any hidden desires? Well, if you feel like getting nasty then you came to the right place.”
FOX reporter, “Jeff…Jeff Gannon is that YOU?”
Gannon, “Hey man, that’s James Guckert if your nasty!”
FOX reporter, “Hey dude, your working for State now?”
Gannon, “No man, same old gig, blowjobs for money. Listen, do you want to talk dirty or what?”
FOX reporter, “I’ll call you back later Jeff, I’ve gotta get onto this conference thingy right now.”
Gannon, “Ok baby…talk at you later. Tell Karl I’ll be by later for my “de-briefing” (click)”
April 3rd, 2009 at 9:41 amNo Republicans voted for the budget in either chamber.
NO surprise coming from the gNOp. If a Democrat reccomended that breathing was a democratic policy, all the republicans would stop breathing.
The House Republicans’ alternative budget was rejected by a 293-137 vote. Thirty-eight members — or 20 percent — of the House Republican caucus voted against their own party’s budget proposal
So, what we have is 38 republican’ts voted for NO BUDGET AT ALL. I suppose their philosophy is that it will all handle itself, we just need to not spend any money anywhere for any reason.
I’m guessing that they’d reccomend that we put all that budget money in a n off shore account so that it will not get hit by taxes. You know, being patriotic and all…
April 3rd, 2009 at 9:42 amA Patriotic Anopheles Acting Says:
Too funny. :0
April 3rd, 2009 at 9:43 amtom Says:
By the way, TP –
all of the comments to posts have been numbered “1? since sometime yesterday.
____________
Not on my computer… hmmm, perhaps its time to upgrade from that steam-driven Commodore…
April 3rd, 2009 at 9:44 am“Republicans voted against a plan supported by their own leadership. Officials ascribed much of the opposition to a provision that called for eliminating traditional fee-for-service Medicare for individuals who reach age 65 in 2020 or later and replacing it with coverage from private insurance companies.”
Yeah because that will work and always has. That’s why I let a cold nearly kill me because I didnt want to pay medical bills. Only to end up with a $500 ER bill when it turned into a strep infection.
Not to mention work doubled our deductible to $1000 when our blue cross more than doubled our premiums out of nowhere.
#1 is right, we need to fix this before we have serious health problems.
April 3rd, 2009 at 9:45 amThe party of NO had some problems with their own. 37 of them forgot to turn the key and vote yes on their own bill. They were just stuck in the NO position. Rethug leadership will have to put out a memo reminding the clones to turn key when its our bill.
April 3rd, 2009 at 9:52 amThe Republic of Hymenoptera Stupidity Says:
tom Says:
Not on my computer… hmmm, perhaps its time to upgrade from that steam-driven Commodore…
My Atari 1500 and the hampster to power it are doing fine with the numbers here as well.
April 3rd, 2009 at 9:52 amOur President did us proud yesterday. I am delighted with the new face we are showing to the rest of the world.
April 3rd, 2009 at 9:52 amThe Republic of Hymenoptera Stupidity Says:
tom Says:
By the way, TP –
all of the comments to posts have been numbered “1? since sometime yesterday.
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Not on my computer… hmmm, perhaps its time to upgrade from that steam-driven Commodore…
Megadittoes!
Or (snark free) try logging out and logging back in, and try a different browser (preferably a real browser like Firefox).
April 3rd, 2009 at 9:54 amBurton needs to lighten the heck up.
1. it was funny
2. unless Fox News had a guy on saying that the wrong number was to divert attention away from some birth certificate lawsuit and Obama’s Commufacist agenda, a question about it is by far not on the dumber side of Fox.
3. It delivered teh lulz.
April 3rd, 2009 at 9:59 am@A Patriotic Anopheles Acting #16
You win sir!
April 3rd, 2009 at 10:01 amAsked for comment by Fox, Deputy White House Press Secretary Bill Burton said the mishap “is probably one of the stupider things Fox News has covered lately.”
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Oh man oh man… Fox got SERVED!
Burton has a good point, I think. It’s a typo, for pete’s sake. That’s not a story – it’s a paragraph in an Al Kamen column, or a 10-second filler by Steve Inskeep. The fact that Fox was actually called the White House press office for comment shows how desperate they are to dig up dirt.
And they got one hell of a comment. WHAM!
April 3rd, 2009 at 10:04 amIn another whoops-phone-number story, “Cereal Box Typo Sends Callers to Sex Line.”
April 3rd, 2009 at 10:04 amThis from an AP report out of Maryland:
“An Oregon company has ordered new packaging for its Peace Cereal after a typo on the box sent callers to a phone sex line instead of the cereal maker’s 800 number. Instead of reaching Golden Temple of Oregon, callers were greeted by a recorded voice asking, ‘Do you love sex? … Isn’t that why you called?’ “
Either we’re getting way too careless, or there are way too many phone-sex lines in existence.
deebaser, you are right. Faux is funny when it comes to trying to be a news station.
April 3rd, 2009 at 10:05 am“de-briefing’
April 3rd, 2009 at 10:09 amWe have a winnah!
Israel FM rejects Annapolis deal
Israel’s new ultra-nationalist foreign minister has said it is not bound by a US-sponsored 2007 agreement to reach a peace deal with the Palestinians.
“The Annapolis conference, it has no validity,” Avigdor Lieberman said.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7977002.stm
The Prime Minister’s Office (Netanyahu) remained completely silent about Lieberman’s comments on Thursday, neither confirming that his words reflected the government’s new policies, nor distancing itself from them.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1238562897763&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
One might expect a progressive website to report on Israel’s super hawks, one of which is as nutty as Ann Coulter.
April 3rd, 2009 at 10:10 amThank you Cagey and deebaser, I will be patiently awaiting my autographed George Cimicidae Soros poster and year supply of democrat party brand kool-aid! I’m getting tired of playing with my last prize (the damned Keith Olbermann bobble-head keeps falling over due to it’s life-sized noggin).
April 3rd, 2009 at 10:10 amGet Patrick Fitzgerald on the Ted Stevens case.
April 3rd, 2009 at 10:13 amThis just in:
“Iowa Supreme Court rules same-sex marriage ban violates rights of gays, lesbians”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30027685/
This may mean Iowa will have to do a New Jersey and allow either gay marriage or gay civil unions. If they do, this will be the first state in the midwest to do so.
April 3rd, 2009 at 10:17 amSo the budget has passed? I’d like to see the final version in comparison to the original requests. At this point all President Obama has to do is sign it into law, correct?
April 3rd, 2009 at 10:18 amIn Henry VIII’s time O’Reilly would have been one of the first to have his head on a pike.
April 3rd, 2009 at 10:20 amtom Says:
By the way, TP –
all of the comments to posts have been numbered “1? since sometime yesterday.
____________
Not on my computer… hmmm, perhaps its time to upgrade from that steam-driven Commodore…______________
Well, that’s funny! I actually have the opposite problem. I upgraded to IE8 and that is the problem. Luckily, it has a compatibility button so that I can view this site in IE7.
That fixed it.
April 3rd, 2009 at 10:30 amA Patriotic Anopheles Acting Says:
Thank you Cagey and deebaser,
This week’s prize is a Hillary doll nutcracker (and, yes, someone did make those — they’re out there somewhere… kinda funny, in an uncomfortable way), and a Limbaugh Stress Reliever Doll, with “Punch Me” embroidered on his (ample) gut.
April 3rd, 2009 at 10:40 amtom Says:
Well, that’s funny! I actually have the opposite problem. I upgraded to IE8 and that is the problem. Luckily, it has a compatibility button so that I can view this site in IE7.
That fixed it.
The real problem is that you’re using IE.
April 3rd, 2009 at 10:44 amO’Reilly’s rant about the iPod gift to Queen Elizabeth is on a par with his “War On Christmas” nonsense.
April 3rd, 2009 at 10:45 amCageyCretin Says:
“This week’s prize is a Hillary doll nutcracker (and, yes, someone did make those — they’re out there somewhere… kinda funny, in an uncomfortable way), and a Limbaugh Stress Reliever Doll, with “Punch Me” embroidered on his (ample) gut.”
Great! I hope it’s not a political faux pas to use my nutcracker in conjunction with my official Katherine harris nipple clamps. I’ll probably put the Limbaugh Doll on e-bay, though. After I sew in a life-sized anus for it and change the verbiage to “f@ck me” I’m confident that I can name my price with all those deep pocketed GOOPers out there!
April 3rd, 2009 at 10:51 amGood morning. Is it true what they’re saying on the news that Mr obama’s budget will increase the debt or deficeit (I don’t understand the difference) by like 9 trillion dollars?
April 3rd, 2009 at 11:00 amremind me of the educational scenario again please. Old enough to be out of high school but young enough to need strong tutelage? Was that it? I just need clarification so I can differentiate my instruction for the target learner.
April 3rd, 2009 at 11:04 amThanks
I graduated from high school a year early and I’m taking a year off before I go to college. I’m just working and living with the ‘rents and my cousin but while I can figure out on my own the diff between deficet and debt, i wanted opinions on if peopel believe what the news is saying about what damage the budget will do.
April 3rd, 2009 at 11:06 amtrying to learn Says:
Good morning. Is it true what they’re saying on the news that Mr obama’s budget will increase the debt or deficeit (I don’t understand the difference) by like 9 trillion dollars?
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Well, seeing as the budget passed last night was for $3.5 trillion, and not all of that could possibly be deficit, I’m not quite sure where you’ve gotten that $9 trillion figure from… perhaps Fox News?
April 3rd, 2009 at 11:23 amWell, I know the budget was for 3.5 trillion but I thought I heard that over the next 4 years the deficet? woudl increase to 9 trillion. I just don’t know if tht is hogwash.
April 3rd, 2009 at 11:26 amtrying to learn Says
April 3rd, 2009 at 11:00 am
Good morning. Is it true what they’re saying on the news that Mr obama’s budget will increase the debt or deficeit (I don’t understand the difference) by like 9 trillion dollars?
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In a word — no.
Let me address your first question about the difference between “debt” and “deficit”. Here’s the simple explanation: The national “debt” is how deep in the hole we are — the total amount of money we owe, right now. The yearly “deficit” is the amount by which our spending exceeds our revenue (the opposite would be a “surplus”, where our revenue exceeds our spending). Whenever we have a deficit budget, the amount of the deficit gets added to the debt, and whenever we have a surplus, that amount gets subtracted from the debt.
It’s doubtful we would have a deficit in the $9 trillion range anytime soon, since we don’t have an annual budget anywhere near that amount.
So it’s most likely that the people in the “they’re saying on the news” department are talking about adding $9 trillion to the DEBT. This would indeed happen if Congress approved a budget of $3 trillion dollars every year of Obama’s term AND the country received no revenue to offset it. This is hardly likely.
The budget just passed by the Senate is $3.53 trillion. A hefty amount, to be sure. But this isn’t three and a half trillion dollars we’ve never spent before (last year, Bush requested $3.1 trillion — this is the neighborhood where our budget lives).
Consider also that as our economy recovers, so will revenue. And once we quit spending $10 billion a month in Iraq, that will help, too.
Our debt will increase as we take aggressive steps to get our economic engine running again — this is to be expected. But the addition of $9 trillion to the debt is an unrealistic figure.
When we get a healthy economy again, the rate of debt increase will slow down, stall out, and eventually reverse, as it did toward the end of the Clinton administration.
April 3rd, 2009 at 11:28 amtrying to learn Says:
Well, I know the budget was for 3.5 trillion but I thought I heard that over the next 4 years the deficet? woudl increase to 9 trillion. I just don’t know if tht is hogwash.
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No one knows for sure. BUT… we do know Botch just ran up the largest deficit of any POTUS in the country’s history. If you add up the cumulative deficits of Botch I & II and Reagan, they account for something like 70% plus of the current national debt. So much for “fiscally-responsible” Republicans, huh?
April 3rd, 2009 at 11:30 amThank you. Do you think the economy will recover in the year?
April 3rd, 2009 at 11:31 amI’m sorry…I don’t know what Botch is.
April 3rd, 2009 at 11:33 amYou would first have to define the criteria you wish to use to define recovery…
April 3rd, 2009 at 11:35 ammisscoleopteramolly, don’t forget to mention that Bush’s 3.1 trillion dollar budget last year DID NOT include funding for the two wars we are in and President Obama’s 3.53 trillion has these figures included in the overall budget for the first time since the wars began. It may be a small point and taken for granted by progressives, but the general public is not aware of this for the most part and Repubs conveniently ignore this fact. If Obama had continued using Bush’s math, this year’s budget numbers would be strikingly smaller but what’s a little honesty in accounting?
April 3rd, 2009 at 11:36 amtrying to learn Says:
I’m sorry…I don’t know what Botch is.
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Oh, sure ya do… it’s a sarcastic nickname for George Bush.
April 3rd, 2009 at 11:36 amA Patriotic Anopheles Acting Says:
misscoleopteramolly, don’t forget to mention that Bush’s 3.1 trillion dollar budget last year DID NOT include funding for the two wars we are in and President Obama’s 3.53 trillion has these figures included in the overall budget for the first time since the wars began. It may be a small point and taken for granted by progressives, but the general public is not aware of this for the most part and Repubs conveniently ignore this fact.
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It’s not a small point at all. That’s the sort of bookkeeping trickery that helped to blow up Enron and AIG, amongst others.
April 3rd, 2009 at 11:38 amtrying to learn Says:
Thank you. Do you think the economy will recover in the year?
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Hard to say…
April 3rd, 2009 at 11:39 amOh…Ha! I get it!
April 3rd, 2009 at 11:40 amAgreed trohs, didn’t mean to undercut the importance of this. My point was that folks outside of the left leaning political wonkworld tend to gloss over that tid-bit and we need to consciously point it out whenever possible and NOT take it for granted that everyone else knows it.
April 3rd, 2009 at 11:44 amA Patriotic Anopheles Acting Says
April 3rd, 2009 at 11:36 am
misscoleopteramolly, don’t forget to mention that Bush’s 3.1 trillion dollar budget last year DID NOT include funding for the two wars we are in and President Obama’s 3.53 trillion has these figures included in the overall budget for the first time since the wars began.
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You’re absolutely right — I should have compared apples to apples.
April 3rd, 2009 at 11:45 amA Patriotic Anopheles Acting Says:
Agreed trohs, didn’t mean to undercut the importance of this.
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I didn’t think you were. Actually, what you said hit the nail right on the head. It has been bookkeeping flimflammery all along on BotchCo’s part to do that the way they did. And far too many people DON’T understand the significance of it.
As far as I can tell, the Botchies gave up keeping an honest, accurate count back at least as early as 2003… those INFERNAL supplemental spending bills.
April 3rd, 2009 at 11:48 amwatchdog Says: nothing to back up his criticism.
April 3rd, 2009 at 11:48 amwatchdog Says:
Ask these people about the truth is like asking a Baptist Preacher advise on which religion is best for you.
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And asking swatchie anything is like asking a repressed 13 year old advice on breaking a chronic self-gratification habit…
April 3rd, 2009 at 11:50 amwatchdog? really? why? they have been nothing but nice to me.
April 3rd, 2009 at 11:50 amYeah. An unflattering (and IMO childish) name for Bush. I, however, can’t say Bush didn’t earn that name. Many of us here think he botched up the country with his borrow and spend ways.
Will the economy recover in a year? Depends on what you mean by ‘recover’. Hit the bottom and start going up? Possibly. Return to the point it was when Obama took office? Less likely. Return to Bush’s high point? Far less likely. The economy will take time to recover. Fortunately you’re headed to college, trying to learn, so you’ll be able to weather this recession much like I am. Keep your head down, don’t spend too much, get that degree, and by the time you graduate, you probably will be entering a much healthier economy than now.
To misscoleopteramolly:
Thanks for the description and the commentary about the budget. I’ve almost given up trying to predict what Obama’s budget is going to do. There’s alot of half truths out there, plus the usual Republican Half Truths, Misdirections, Diversions, and Outright Lies, to totally obscure the issue. Unfortunately, if Obama does screw it up, there’s no one else to turn to. I’ll become officially jaded, and will simply work on my plan to move to Canada. After all, I’m not going to let the @$$es who got us into this mess in the first place back at the reigns of power, right?
April 3rd, 2009 at 11:50 amtrying to learn, watchdog likes to p*ss on our threads and its bark is worse than its bite.
April 3rd, 2009 at 11:53 amJeremy in Denver Says:
Yeah. An unflattering (and IMO childish) name for Bush.
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Funny… I don’t recall ASKING for your opinion.
April 3rd, 2009 at 11:55 amEh, trying, watchdog is a troll. As in an internet jerk who simply comes in to derail conversation. He may be conservative, or he may just be a punk behind a computer who does it for the lulz.
The truth is somewhere between the rosy picture painted by the Democrats and the bleak picture painted by the Republicans. It’s hard to know which extreme to lean to because both parties use tricks of numbers to back up their numbers (though Democrats are more honest, they still have some bad numbers, such as having the Stimulus not added together with the rest of the budget for this year’s budget bill, though they do add it to the deficit they project this year). The real answer is that we’re trying to predict the future, which is hard enough when you’re dealing with a science like weather and damn near impossible when you’re dealing with economics, which ties back to sociology, which deals with the most unpredictable quantity of all….us.
But the bottom line, for the troll’s benefit in particular, is that we would not have had to be talking about this (and McCain may well have been President) if Bush and the Republicans had properly funded the SEC (along with other organizations like the CPSC and the FDIC) so that it could have done its job, repealed the 2001 tax cuts when it became obvious that there was going to be an expensive war on the horizon, passed up the temptation to start a two-front war (ask Hitler about that little thing), and drew a line in the sand over spending vs taxation, and held that line. Then again, he wouldn’t have been a Republican had he done so…
April 3rd, 2009 at 11:59 amwatchdog Says: the typical Right Wing mouth-breathing knee jerk response.
April 3rd, 2009 at 12:02 pmHey trying to learn, class is officially in session! Sit back and wait for the sniveling cur to give you a lesson in GOPthink. His type hopes that our economy crashes as long as it makes a the opposing political party look bad. His type has voted lockstep for years for the kind of republican self-serving financial orgy that got us into this mess and will go to it’s death defending deregulation, tax breaks for the rich, torture, Constitutional crimes and anything that doesn’t benefit needy Americans. It’s a great opportunity for you to see into the mindset of a troll who lives by the words that drip from the mouths of Limbaugh, O’Reilly, Hannity and the rest of the FOX crew. C’mon watchdog, expound on your genius for the young grasshopper.
Funny… I don’t recall ASKING for your opinion.
Funny. I don’t recall there being a need to ask for your permission for my opinion.
I calls ‘em as I see ‘em. Calling Bush ‘Botch’ is about as mature as calling Obama ‘Obummer’ or ‘Teh Messiah’. If I call the latter, I may as well call the former. It’s called avoiding hypocrisy. That being said, it’s a free world. Call Bush Botch as much as you want. Just expect that the right wing trolls (and moderate and left winger posters who wish to avoid calls of hypocrisy) to call you on it. Two Wrongs don’t make a Right and all.
April 3rd, 2009 at 12:02 pmIt is not concerned with truth
April 3rd, 2009 at 12:09 pm—
Watchdog, Might you help our young friend by offering a definition of truth?
Thanks
This is a politically oriented website, and politics is all about power.
If you want truth, go to the Vatican’s website or whatever other religion you subscribe to.
April 3rd, 2009 at 12:15 pmwags…my family is methodist…does that mean I shouldn’t be on this site? I don’t want to offend anyone.
April 3rd, 2009 at 12:18 pm…
huh?
What I’m saying is that truth and facts are not the same.
April 3rd, 2009 at 12:19 pmwatchdog Says:
Only a Liberal would ask for a definition of the truth.
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Well, at least we can be sure what Fox considers “the truth” to be… whatever they want it to be, huh? After all, they did defend their behavior in court by claiming they had the legal right TO LIE and call it news, and won on that basis.
What say you, swatchie?
April 3rd, 2009 at 12:19 pmtrying to learn:
April 3rd, 2009 at 12:21 pmNotice the example of watchdog. This is an example of the type of thought which will hinder your future successes. Frustration, anger, and hostility inhibits the ability of the mind to envision alternatives. It seems that on one level watchdog may have a minor point. The philosophers are all great thinkers with great and powerful minds. As noted by watchdog they must all be and have been liberals as the question of truth seems relegated to them. I suppose the liberals are the only ones to ponder beauty as well eh watchdog?
Jeremy in Denver Says:
Funny. I don’t recall there being a need to ask for your permission for my opinion.
I calls ‘em as I see ‘em. Calling Bush ‘Botch’ is about as mature as calling Obama ‘Obummer’ or ‘Teh Messiah’.
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Or as mature as calling elected officials “the @$$es who got us into this mess in the first place”???
Pot… meet kettle…
April 3rd, 2009 at 12:22 pm>trying to learn Says:
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>watchdog? really? why? they have been nothing but nice to me.
Con men are some of the nicest people on earth seemingly.
This is a perfect example of troll mentality, trying to learn. Notice he didn’t answer your question. Don’t expect an answer, either. His goals are not to foster conversation. He doesn’t care to. He believes that all we are here to do is to foster a partisan hack opinion that flies in the face of reality. Trying to get an honest answer from him is an exercise in futility.
For your reading pleasure, I’m going to present to you three additional sites from the four I frequent for political news.
Americablog is another liberal minded site. Between the four, I’d say I spend 75% of my time on TP and Americablog.
Redstate is a conservative blog. IMO, this blog is the most reasonable of the conservative blogs, but don’t take that as a compliment. If you choose to comment on RS, expect to run into Moe Lane. He’s the resident iron-fisted admin, and he has been known to cold-terminate any dissenting voice, accusing them of being a troll even if they don’t show any overt trolling issues (by staying on topic, being respectful of other posters, not resorting to ad hominem attacks–attacks against the arguer– or strawmen — attacks against a position that appears to be held by the opponent superficially but was exagerated to make it easier to defeat and worse than it actually is, etc). At a minimum, it’s a good place to see the latest Republican tactic before it spills out onto the internet. Like all blogs (including TP and Americablog), take any article there with a grain of salt…though I’d say the salt is much more necessary there than here.
Lastly, for a laugh and an introduction to the Righty Black Helicopter Brigade, go to Free Republic. Don’t even bother with the salt here. If you see it here, assume it’s a lie until you see it somewhere else.
Your real source of information, however, should be sites like Reuters, CNN, MSNBC, your newspaper, and so on. Again, there’s alot of bias out there, so here comes the hard part — filtering the bias out. Hopefully you won’t become jaded quick. ;)
April 3rd, 2009 at 12:23 pmwags….okay…I understand. I’m sorry.
April 3rd, 2009 at 12:23 pmtrying to learn Says:
wags…my family is methodist…
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We’re nondenominational here… we don’t respect ANY organized religion.
April 3rd, 2009 at 12:24 pmNo offense taken. Better to ask questions than not.
April 3rd, 2009 at 12:27 pmwhile simultaneously respecting them all…
April 3rd, 2009 at 12:27 pmRepublic…why not respect any denominations? I think I’m getting off subject here.
April 3rd, 2009 at 12:30 pmOK, TRoS, you have a point. Perhaps I shouldn’t have called them asses. I still think that there’s a difference between saying ‘Bush is the @ss who got us in this mess’ (expressing an opinion on his character and emphasizing that Bush got us in the mess) and ‘Botch got us in this mess’ (disrespecting his name and adding confusion on who exactly got us in the mess). Hell, I wouldn’t have thrown an exception at ‘Bush the Botch’, cause as you can tell if you read my entire post, I agree with you that he’s a botch. Bonus points: YOu don’t have to explain who or what ‘Botch’ is to a newbie who has never heard the ‘term of disendearment’ for Bush.
My origional position stands. Disrespecting the man by mangling his name is childish, in my opinion. There are alot more mature ways out there to express what you were trying to say. It’s perfectly healthy to say that “Bush botched up the USA by his fiscal and foreign policy. That’s why I like to call him Bush the Botch, or Botch for short”. But when you can’t control your impulses and squirt out ‘Botch’ to a newbie who has to then ask who ‘Botch’ is, you run the risk of alienating a potential new member of the movement. I know you don’t want that, so I’m trying to do you a service and suggest that instead of going with the childish impulse (which we all have, see my @$$ comment), you might consider before you write who your audience is.
And printed in bold text so you can see it, I fully agree with you that Bush is a botch. Perhaps we can stop derailing the thread over 3 words in my original post which otherwise fully agreed with your position but just expressed an opinion that you could have chose a better way to articulate your position now? The enemy is the republicans, not the moderates and moderate liberals who would like this side to keep its high ground so it can undo what Bush did.
Thanks.
April 3rd, 2009 at 12:36 pmIf your religion is directly influencing your politics, you have some things to really think about. Compare to Taliban, et. al.
Not to say that you and how you live your life shouldn’t be influenced by dogma — that’s the whole point of believing a religious doctrine. However, applying your choice of dogma to everyone else in your society is desiring a theocracy. It IS sometimes difficult for those with strong religious beliefs to separate the two, and some people DO believe that a theocracy is a good thing, and for them, then, they are justified in desiring such — but that does not mean that the rest of society SHOULD agree with them.
Just because someone has a position or argument (such as “American law should be based on the Christian Bible, becuase us Christians beleive that is the supreme moral law”), it does not mean that that argument is valid.
All I have time for, but I feel it is important to mention.
Play nice.
April 3rd, 2009 at 12:38 pmJeremy in Denver Says:
OK, TRoS, you have a point. Perhaps I shouldn’t have called them asses. I still think that there’s a difference between saying ‘Bush is the @ss who got us in this mess’ (expressing an opinion on his character and emphasizing that Bush got us in the mess) and ‘Botch got us in this mess’ (disrespecting his name and adding confusion on who exactly got us in the mess).
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Thank you. I don’t resort to the extreme profanity some people here do. I used to be far raunchier here than I am these days and have worked at cleaning it up. I’ve thought about whether or not I should even use “Botch” the way I do. In Bush’s case, it fits the situation so well I just… go ahead, and use it.
It is MY way of expressing my opinion about his character and capabilities, or incapabilities, as the case may be…
Would it be okay to call Bush a horse’s shimkus?
April 3rd, 2009 at 12:44 pmtrying to learn Says:
Republic…why not respect any denominations?
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I’m sorry… I’m being sarcastic again. It’s a constant w/ me.
Funny… there’s only ONE OTHER poster here who EVER refers to me as “Republic”…
April 3rd, 2009 at 12:46 pmwatchdog Says:
This is an ideology driven web site. Built to push a political agenda. It is not concerned with truth just power and politics.
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This is simply not true. Whilst we, the posters can’t control what the Admin posts, we certainly don’t follow any party line rigidly. We’re all over the map.
April 3rd, 2009 at 12:48 pmCan’t answer for TRoS, but IMO, I don’t respect organized religion as a whole. Why? Because instead of guiding the members to enlightenment and divinity, organized religion is usually about forcing the views of a select few down the throat of those members and others not of their church. This doesn’t hold for every church (and possibly, for every religion or sub-religion). However, I’ve encountered so many churches trying to force their religion down my throat and their views on sexuality, abortion, and politics, I by default assume that any organized religion is trying to force its views down my throat.
Funny story for you, trying. I live in Denver, and 60 miles to the south is Colorado Springs, home of Focus on the Family, a religious organization that is heavily involved with lobbying for Conservative values in government. My wife is a bisexual liberated goth woman, the kind of person that FOTF absolutely hates. She’s taken to my mother’s position on Abortion (as she hadn’t heard that position articulated that way before) which is ‘I’m pro-choice and I choose life’–I.E. She won’t force her choice down someone elses throat. Last fall, just before the elections, a host of speakers came up to Auraria campus. A few were nice and quiet, and just offered pocket bibles and smiles. I even took one of the pocket bibles though I am not Christian myself. One group, however, cordened off a piece of our central flagpole area, and unveiled some of the most grotesque pictures imaginable — after effects of abortion, pretty much. They then started shouting all sorts of obscenities at people, calling them immoral and babykillers, in most cases before they’d even identified themselves as pro-choice. Of course, that ‘pro-choice’ never was uttered, instead they used their own code word: murderers. I simply observed a position that turned out to be fact. I said: “You guys know you’re the reason why the Republicans lost the House and the Senate and are likely going to lose worse in the next election, right?” Yep. Got the ‘murderer’ label for my troubles. This is what religion brings. Yes, there are the nice smiling men and women quietly handing out bibles and saying ‘bless you’. However, we don’t remember those over the screaming jerks planted in the one place you pretty much have to pass through to get to any place on campus. In fact, there were members of the college posted offering people with small children alternative routes to avoid the mess.
That’d be why I frown on all organized religion. It’s sad but now you have to prove to me that you are not trying to brainwash me and my wife before I show you respect as a church.
April 3rd, 2009 at 12:49 pmFight to stop Monsanto’s dream bill, HR 875
HR 875, was introduced by Rosa DeLauro whose husband Stanley Greenburg works for Monsanto.
The bill is monstrous on level after level – the power it would give to Monsanto, the criminalization of seed banking, the prison terms and confiscatory fines for farmers, the 24 hours GPS tracking of their animals, the easements on their property to allow for warrantless government entry, the stripping away of their property rights, the imposition by the filthy, greedy industrial side of anti-farming international “industrial” standards to independent farms – the only part of our food system that still works, the planned elimination of farmers through all these means.
The corporations want the land, they want more intensive industrialization, they want the end of normal animals so they can substitute patented genetically engineered ones they own, they want the end of normal seeds and thus of seed banking by farmers or individuals. They want control over all seeds, animals, water, and land.
April 3rd, 2009 at 12:51 pmLINK
April 3rd, 2009 at 12:51 pmIt’s not a problem to refer to Bush as Botch as long as you’re aware of what message that sends. I may just be old fashioned when I say I’d prefer to hear of Bush the Botch refering to the man and Bush’s Folly when refering to the Iraq war. ;)
April 3rd, 2009 at 12:53 pmI think the phone sex thing was fair game, and was pretty widely reported. I think the more appropriate response by Burton would have been, “Finally, Fox gets a chance to report something that actually happened.”
April 3rd, 2009 at 1:01 pmJeremy in Denver Says:
It’s not a problem to refer to Bush as Botch as long as you’re aware of what message that sends.
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Actually, I am Jeremy. like I said above, I have wondered if I should call him that, for the reasons you laid out.
April 3rd, 2009 at 1:11 pmAsked for comment by Fox, Deputy White House Press Secretary Bill Burton said the mishap “is probably one of the stupider things Fox News has covered lately.”
That’s really saying something…
April 3rd, 2009 at 1:12 pmwatchdog Says:
Thank you. Do you think the economy will recover in the year?
Ask these people about the truth is like asking a Baptist Preacher advise on which religion is best for you.
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Asking YOU about ANYTHING is like asking a goldfish about Quantum Mechanics. You are a stupid worthless troll ignorant beyond belief
April 3rd, 2009 at 1:28 pmwatchdog Says:
This is an ideology driven web site. Built to push a political agenda. It is not concerned with truth just power and politics.
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You are a liar and a fool and an ignorant piece of garbage. Troll. YOU are stupid and brainwashed. I call out dems and the left all the time. YOU are so stupid you only see what that sump in your head has preordained you to see according to what you have been TOLD to believe. YOU are a moron
April 3rd, 2009 at 1:32 pmPoor watchpup. Still has that Soros Azz affliction.
As well as the trollish simplicity of attempting Zen when defining truth. The only people who can’t accept a definition of truth are the ones incapable of understanding it.
April 3rd, 2009 at 2:05 pmHi Trying to Learn, welcome to TP!
April 3rd, 2009 at 2:09 pmIf you hang out here long enough, you will see that there’s a lot of regulars – and a lot of regular trolls that we recognize, even through their many name changes, and we have fun torturing them. So if you think we are being harsh or disrespectful, be aware that it is usually because we have identified that one as a bona fide troll.
Some of them are not too bad, some are really just here to cause trouble.
I personally am an atheist – I respect your decision to have a religion, but I have no respect for religion itself, as I think it does more damage than good in the world. However, many of the most liberal posters here are also religious people. We have diversity!
I also came to TP not knowing much at all about the political world, and have found it to be a great source of differing points of view and of links to many other interesting sites. Hope you have the same experience.
Regarding Truth: Was Pontius Pilate a liberal?
And regarding Soros: Watchdog has a hardon for Soros. He is terribly afraid! Fear is the mark of the troll.
April 3rd, 2009 at 2:11 pmtrying to learn Says:
Republic…why not respect any denominations? I think I’m getting off subject here.
This is a nondenominational site. We pick on everybody. Honesty and coherence are important. Humor appreciated.
April 3rd, 2009 at 2:14 pmwatchdog Says:
How does this site get a majority of its funding? Who gives this site a majority of its funding? How would a site like this benefit the people who fund it? George Soros
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Yeah only morons think Soros is the devil. That isnt evidence that we arent interested in the truth which was your claim and only a cretinous troll would think it was.
April 3rd, 2009 at 2:36 pmTrying to learn.
I am one of the farther lefties of this site. I also consider myself a religious person. I think a quote that meant something to me was something like… If your religion makes you a kinder person than I am then your religion is better than mine. I am not sure I totally agree but I certainly understand the concept. I dont care what others think about religion in general or specifically. To me it is about a relationship with God in whatever meager way we understand Him and are able to accomplish that daunting task
April 3rd, 2009 at 2:41 pmAdministration Seeks an Out On Bailout Rules for Firms
The Obama administration is engineering its new bailout initiatives in a way that it believes will allow firms benefiting from the programs to avoid restrictions imposed by Congress, including limits on lavish executive pay, according to government officials.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/03/AR2009040303910.html?hpid=topnews
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