Obama Responds To Afghan Law That Legalizes Rape: ‘I Think This Law Is Abhorrent’
Obama Responds To Afghan Law That Legalizes Rape: ‘I Think This Law Is Abhorrent’
At a news conference in Strasbourg, France, this morning, President Obama discussed NATO efforts in Afghanistan and secured the commitment of NATO allies to send 5,000 more troops to Afghanistan. Fox News’ Major Garrett asked Obama what he thinks of a new Afghanistan law that legalizes rape. The legislation, which applies to the country’s Shia population, contains this provision:
“As long as the husband is not traveling, he has the right to have sexual intercourse with his wife every fourth night,” Article 132 of the law says. “Unless the wife is ill or has any kind of illness that intercourse could aggravate, the wife is bound to give a positive response to the sexual desires of her husband.”
In a written statement, the United Nations Development Fund for Women (UNIFEM), said the law “legalizes the rape of a wife by her husband. … The law violates women’s rights and human rights in numerous ways.”
This morning, Obama said, “I think this law is abhorrent” and that his administration’s views are being communicated to the Karzai government. “We have stated very clearly that we object to this law.” But Obama added, the priority for the U.S. right now is al Qaeda. “But I want everybody to understand that our focus is to defeat al Qaeda and ensure that they do not have safe havens from which they can launch attacks against the Alliance.” Watch it:
The Afghanistan law poses a difficult diplomatic challenge for Obama and for Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who said recently, “Women’s rights are a central part of American foreign policy in the Obama Administration; they are not marginal; they are not an add-on or an afterthought.”
President Karzai said he ordered his Justice Ministry to review the law, and if anything in it contravenes the country’s constitution or Shariah law, “measures will be taken.” But he added that he had studied the law earlier in the day and, “I don’t see any problems with it.”
Transcript:
Q Thank you, Mr. President, and good afternoon. I’d like to ask you about a law that’s recently been passed in Afghanistan that affects the 10 percent of the Shia population there. A summary of it says it negates the need for sexual consent between married couples, tacitly approves child marriage, and restricts a woman’s right to leave the home. The United Nations Development Fund for Women says this legalizes the rape of a wife by her husband. I’d like your assessment of this law, number one. Number two, will you condition future troop movements of the U.S. to Afghanistan on the basis of this law being retracted or rewritten? And if not, sir, what about the character of this law ought to motivate U.S. forces to fight and possibly die in Afghanistan?
PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, first of all, this was actually a topic of conversation among all the allies. And in our communication — communiqué, you will see that we specifically state that part of this comprehensive approach is encouraging the respect of human rights. I think this law is abhorrent. Certainly the views of the administration have been, and will be, communicated to the Karzai government. And we think that it is very important for us to be sensitive to local culture, but we also think that there are certain basic principles that all nations should uphold, and respect for women and respect for their freedom and integrity is an important principle.
Now, I just want to remind people, though, why our troops are fighting, because I think the notion that you laid out, Major, was that our troops might be less motivated. Our troops are highly motivated to protect the United States, just as troops from NATO are highly motivated to protect their own individual countries and NATO allies collectively. So we want to do everything we can to encourage and promote rule of law, human rights, the education of women and girls in Afghanistan, economic development, infrastructure development, but I also want people to understand that the first reason we are there is to root out al Qaeda so that they cannot attack members of the Alliance.
Now, I don’t — those two things aren’t contradictory, I think they’re complementary. And that’s what’s reflected in the communiqué.
Q But do you object to the law –
PRESIDENT OBAMA: We have stated very clearly that we object to this law. But I want everybody to understand that our focus is to defeat al Qaeda and ensure that they do not have safe havens from which they can launch attacks against the Alliance.
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I agree Dr. Moth, I also think they are looking for a reason to blame the law on Obama, even though hes against it.
April 4th, 2009 at 12:56 pmI don’t think this is so far from the fundamentalist’s view of women in this country. Of course, they don’t publicly flog women, but they preserve the male authority, and expect women to “submit” to their husbands.
All the more popular religions are fundamentally male-centric.
As for the conservatives – they will probably not speak of this too strongly because they can’t offend the fundies of the repug party. When they speak of it, though, I expect them to spin it in some way to thwart any progress that Obama may make in the region.
April 4th, 2009 at 12:59 pm“I don’t see any problems with it” . . . and we are sending billions upon billions to this scum bag. When oh when are we going to stand up and take a stand on this issue.
April 4th, 2009 at 1:03 pmBasic human rights for women should be a given, no matter who is president. If the world does not speak up for these women, who will?
April 4th, 2009 at 1:11 pmFantastic as it is, that is a heavily romanticized film whose historical accuracy is highly questionable. I wouldn’t cite it as a prime example of how the Mid East works… It’s also hardly fair to pigeonhole “these people” based on the actions of their political and clerical leaders. I’m sure you don’t mean it, but your repeated use of that phrase comes off as very patronizing. Just saying.
April 4th, 2009 at 1:22 pmI think the US and Nato are clearly taking a stand on this issue. The President publicly calling the law “abhorrent” is taking a strong and unequivocal position. Karzai says he is “reviewing” the law. This is not the kind of thing you are going to change through public threats and tough talk. Afghanistan is the Wild West. There is no sheriff outside the big city. We’re not there to police the bedrooms of the Afghans. That would be a Republican enterprise in the first place, and many of them would likely see the law in question as legitimate. It’s probably already on the books in Texas, anyway.
April 4th, 2009 at 1:25 pmI’m starting to think that the concentration on Afghanistan, or even Al Quida, is a red herring. I’m thinking that we’re actually building up there in case the Pakistani Govt. fails. (and firing missile’s on their civilian population doesn’t help)
It’s also starting to bother me to see Obama out there begging for more troops from other countries just to continue Bush’s war mongering. Why the Hell wasn’t this war finished in Bush’s years? Iraq too; where is the draw down there? All I see are more and more Friedman Units.
¶ AIO
April 4th, 2009 at 1:42 pmAfghan leader orders review of Shi’ite law
STRASBOURG, France (Reuters) – Afghan President Hamid Karzai has ordered a review of a new law for Afghanistan’s Shi’ite minority after Western nations raised concerns over its impact on women’s rights, Western officials said on Saturday.
British Prime Minister Gordon Brown said he had voiced grave concern over the Shi’ite Personal Status Law in a phone call to Karzai on Saturday and had “demanded assurances” that the law would not infringe women’s rights.
[...]
Germany said its foreign minister, Frank-Walter Steinmeier, had talked to his Afghan counterpart Rangeen Dadfar Spanta by phone on Saturday and expressed concern over the planned law.
Spanta told him that Karzai had stopped the publication of the law and started a legal review of it, the German Foreign Ministry said in Berlin.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090404/ts_nm/us_afghanistan_women_britain
April 4th, 2009 at 1:42 pmOT:
Three Policemen were killed in Pittsburg by a gun nut who was afraid President Obama was going to take away his guns.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gxAP_ul1xtDvN-3H8XQ5EaI6_7cAD97BPGE00
are you trolls happy yet?
April 4th, 2009 at 1:54 pmThe gun nut had an AK-47 rifle and several powerful handguns…
April 4th, 2009 at 1:58 pm#3 –
“male-centric”?
They outright mistreat women all over the dance floor. I can’t believe there are women who continue to participate in this nonsense, except they are brainwashed into it as children…which is child abuse!!!
That’s why I’m an atheist.
April 4th, 2009 at 2:00 pmI have a bit of difficulty seeing where our President has the right to protest a law that discriminates against someone because of gender when it is practiced in his own country.
After all, aren’t we supposed to be the enlightened ones, the good guys? This is part of their religion and offensive as it is, Afghanistan is a country where religion is an integral part of their politics.
Thank goodness we don’t have that here./snark
April 4th, 2009 at 2:06 pmIt is No Coincidence that societies with Exploding Birth Rates do not allow women to control their own Bodies.
The Fox News reporter, Mr. Garret, was just trying to drive a wedge between President Obama and Woman’s Rights Supporters.
April 4th, 2009 at 2:14 pmI am sure “thePrez” will send Karzai a very strongly worded letter…
April 4th, 2009 at 2:15 pmdixie blood,
April 4th, 2009 at 2:16 pmI am with you. A former catholic, now a recovering christian, I think all organized religions are a combination of folk lore, superstition, and a belief in supernatural.
It’s hard for me to reconcile religion and the universe.
Is there any doubt that the killer gets his “news” from FAUX and hate-radio?
April 4th, 2009 at 2:16 pmPresident Obama’s response to this law brings the sharp contrast that exists between Republican and Democratic philosophies. Both Bush and President Obama have two daughters. Bush’s view is that his girls will never be affected by this so he doesn’t have to give a crap what happens to women in other countries. He considers himself and his family “superior” so who cares?
April 4th, 2009 at 2:17 pmPresident Obama – on the other hand – views himself and his family as part of the larger human race and can feel empathy towards those little girls that will be raped by these disgusting men.
Major Garrett was trying to corner Obama – even after a careful and lengthy reply to the question, he still persisted in demanding a yes or no answer.
Fcuk Fox News and their reporters.
April 4th, 2009 at 2:18 pmMarie and dixie,
I was very fortunate. My parents were agnostic and elected to let their children make our own decisions about religion once we were old enough. I was 12 or 13 when I went to church with my uncle and my first impression was utter disbelief.
Then I read the Buy-bull. I figured there had to be something to it but, I found it to be even less believable than the nutty Pastor.
April 4th, 2009 at 2:19 pmReligion in general is just a way to control the masses. Its mostly about POWER and WEALTH. It has very little to do with spirituality. I spent my childhood in “nun school” and expeienced their stern abusive rule. By the time I was 8 years old I refused to go to church. Never bought into any of it!
April 4th, 2009 at 2:27 pmMarie and pete,
It was a long journey for me to go from “born and raised Christian” to agnostic to atheist. The real break through and freedom came after reading “god is not good” by Christopher Hitchens (who I have political problems with) last year. Climbing out of a family of gospel singers and preachers has been a life long struggle.
Thanks for your comments. I don’t so feel alone in my intelligent choice with y’all here.
April 4th, 2009 at 2:29 pmI think I read yesterday of a 17-year old girl who was publicly whipped in Pakistan.
Fundamentalists are the same no matter which religion or which country – they just have various methods of severity as punishing methods in imposing their authority.
pete,
April 4th, 2009 at 2:30 pmI agree that people should decide for themselves, as your parents felt, but in this country (and I suspect in most countries) people “believe” the religion in which they were raised. That must be truly “blind faith,” to believe in something simply because of familial tradition.
IF I’M NOT MISTAKEN
I think there is similar language in the bible. No woman should refuse her husbands demands including sex and she must be obedient.
April 4th, 2009 at 2:35 pmIf hitting a child is physical abuse then raising a child in a religion without free choice is brain abuse which is worse and more distructive in society than physical abuse. Period.
April 4th, 2009 at 2:35 pmdixie blood, choosing humanity over dogma is always a tough one. Especially when the dogma supposedly preaches it yet seldom lives it.
April 4th, 2009 at 2:36 pmdixie blood,
April 4th, 2009 at 2:39 pmI share a similar life journey from catholic (school and church) to protestant, to agnostic and now to atheism. It was a long, difficult struggle.
When I see the pope today protect criminal priests while denouncing Obama for his stand on birth control and stem cell research, my decision is further validated.
Churches, temples and mosques are operated by men to preserve authoritarian rule. The bible was written by men decades after the birth of Jesus, revised many times over the years by other men; and curiously, when one considers that many centuries of detailed historical writings preserved through time, no mention is ever made of a poor prophet who roamed the countryside preaching and coverting people to follow him.
Something in this paragraph doesn’t fit the censor.
I see the edited version made it through. What was the bad word? I don’t know, maybe p#dophile.
April 4th, 2009 at 2:40 pmImichael Says:
IF I’M NOT MISTAKEN
I think there is similar language in the bible. No woman should refuse her husbands demands including sex and she must be obedient.
April 4th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
So?
April 4th, 2009 at 2:41 pmPolitics is the right hand of humanity and religion the left. Always doing, always manipulating.
The heart is in the center.
April 4th, 2009 at 2:42 pm#31 – Zooey,
I have a real problem with that “obedient” thang but never that sex thang… :-)
April 4th, 2009 at 2:48 pm“Some of the early reports out of Pittsburgh indicate the man who shot three cops today was fearful that the Obama administration was going to “take away his guns.”
and every reichwing talking head who has been promoting this propoganda should be tried for murder.
April 4th, 2009 at 2:50 pmOil Unical appontee President Karzai has to make a decision of either following the Taliban Law or bring Rights to the people of Afghansian. I don’t blame the Foreign countries why should they fight for a country that will continue the policies of the Taliban and Al Qeada. If Karzai decides to keep the old way then the US and Nato should leave that country and deal with it. America can’t fight for a country that only wants money but continue to allow the Laws and policies of the Taliban. I said Bush appointed Karzai only for the drilling of the pipe line Halliburton wanted. I can see Afghansian will have a new President after the Elections. Karzai will go back to his old job at US Oil company Unical and live off the big bucks he stole from the people of Afghanistan.
April 4th, 2009 at 2:51 pmdixie blood Says:
#31 – Zooey,
I have a real problem with that “obedient” thang but never that sex thang… :-)
April 4th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
I’m with you, dixie — but I won’t have anyone deciding for me whether or not I have sex.
April 4th, 2009 at 2:52 pmDr. Moth Matt Says:
Some of the early reports out of Pittsburgh indicate the man who shot three cops today was fearful that the Obama administration was going to “take away his guns.”
April 4th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
It gives a whole new meaning to “we create what we fear.”
April 4th, 2009 at 2:53 pmSounds like a difficult but rewarding journey.
My take is that spirituality is an innate part of human psychology, and can inspire great insight. But most humans aren’t really capable of great spiritual insights — they’re very difficult to achieve, for one thing and require openness of mind that few people are able to muster — and in the absence of that openness, religion becomes a means for people to give themselves and their lives a structure to ward off the confusion of a huge, cacophonous world.
My mother is a regular churchgoer, active in her parish and devout. But I don’t consider her truly “spiritual” because she uses her religion to avoid big questions rather than to explore them.
Then, of course, there’s the inevitable power trip of anyone involved in authority in any kind of human organization, which organized religion certainly is. But that’s a different aspect of human religion.
April 4th, 2009 at 2:55 pmImichael Says:
“IF I’M NOT MISTAKEN
I think there is similar language in the bible. No woman should refuse her husbands demands including sex and she must be obedient.”
If you’re not mistaken, then what, exactly? If you only think the buy-bull states a doctrine, then it is hard for us to follow your train of thought.
Are you applauding what you think the big black book says?
Unclear what your post is trying to say. I would not say you are mistaken, rather more confused.
April 4th, 2009 at 2:56 pmOh and how is that different than the US? It wasn’t too long ago that women couldn’t prove rape if the girl wasn’t a virgin.
Need I go on? Slow your role and clean up the bs that passes as law here first.
I have seen and read too many weird US laws.
April 4th, 2009 at 2:56 pmToday’s worthless oxymoron…obedient sex.
April 4th, 2009 at 2:57 pmRalph, for years my mother, raised staunch Polish Cathoic, believed her first born son was on the express train to hell. She prayed for me, lit enough candles to illuminate Dodger stadium.
At 79, she has come to realize maybe she was wrong. I love that lady and we have wonderful talks.
April 4th, 2009 at 3:01 pmC&L has a story on the Pittsburgh shooting. It includes a link to Glenn Beck raving about the “2nd Amendment is under attack”. Is anyone surprised?
April 4th, 2009 at 3:01 pmThis law is repugnant in every way.
And if it does become “permanent law”, I’m betting Secretary of State Clinton won’t be spending four consecutive nights in Afghanistan if her husband Bill is with her.
April 4th, 2009 at 3:05 pmWhat is the Obama administration doing about the execution of 120 gay men in Iraq for their homosexuality? We have the power there to keep these crimes against humanity from occurring. What is their action? I haven’t heard them do a thing.
April 4th, 2009 at 3:06 pmThe USA certainly is a nation of hubris. We are so self-righteous in our condemnation of behaviors that our culture openly endorsed not that long ago, from environmental desecration to sexuality.
Can’t we oppose abuse more effectively if we do it with humility, admitting our recent ancestors saw things about the same way? We are not so wise; but for WWII’s labor necessities, most American women would still be confined at home, with few other options.
Most of the hateful criticisms lobbed at Muslims here could have been lobbed at us in the last century. Let’s not sound so damned virtuous. Love might cure the world; hate – on anyone’s side – never will.
April 4th, 2009 at 3:07 pmFor Mr Beck and company…
Master Po says: Clowns make people laugh to ease the pain in their heart. Fearmongers make people bleed.
April 4th, 2009 at 3:07 pmRegarding the Pittsburgh shooter: This fella was worried about someone taking away his guns, and he reacted by demonstrating precisely why perhaps some people ought not to have guns? What a fool…
April 4th, 2009 at 3:10 pmMonte Asbury Says: ove might cure the world; hate – on anyone’s side – never will.
As Mrs. Lennon’s boy said…Imagine.
April 4th, 2009 at 3:11 pmMonte Asbury Says:
Most of the hateful criticisms lobbed at Muslims here could have been lobbed at us in the last century. Let’s not sound so damned virtuous. Love might cure the world; hate – on anyone’s side – never will.
April 4th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
No dice, Monte. There is no hate on this thread — for Muslims or anyone else, except for the stray batshit insane troll.
Wanna try again…?
April 4th, 2009 at 3:11 pmralph the wonder locust
A very interesting and thoughtful comment.
April 4th, 2009 at 3:15 pmI, too, wonder if we are not hard-wired for some kind of “religion” going back to the first humans who tried to make a primitive rationale for natural phenomena.
I think the POnGs will use this to make the troop surge even larger
April 4th, 2009 at 3:27 pmThey might even start talking about regime change and freeing the oppressed women…
April 4th, 2009 at 3:28 pmDixie and Marie,
I had some resistance from my parents when I laid my foot down and said my kids would NEVER be forced into any religion. I gave it up when I was about 12, and will not let my non-praticing Jewish wife nor Catholic family browbeat me or them into thinking any way or the other. It will be their decision when they are ready.
What I LOVE doing is whenever anyone, at home or work or whereever, states anything about god, i just come right out and say “There is no god.” It is fun to see how taken aback someone gets when you present it straight away like that. When they scoff at you, tell them, that if they can promote the notion of a god with nothing more than their faith in it, then you can promote the notion of no god, as there is more supporting your side of the argument than theirs. Makes for fun conversations.
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com
April 4th, 2009 at 3:29 pmoh the pitfalls of nation building and being the policemen of the world.
I was hoping we learned the pitfalls of nation building from vietnam but no such thing.
in life it usually takes many times of hardship to learn our lessons as a human and as a country. germany had to be defeated twice in the 20th century to learn its lessons.
afhgan and iraq will be obama’s vietnam. he is already listening to the military for advice like LBJ did. no conflict of interest there.
the end result of all of this war mongering. the rapid decline of the middle class in america. the american politicans tell their people this is only a recession and for the most part americans believe them.
this decline of wealth in america has been occuring for about 30 years and only borrowed and printed money has kept the middle class intact.
that can only last for so long. ie bandaid approach.
wake up americans nation building only benefits the few at the expense of the many.
April 4th, 2009 at 3:30 pmThe ban on assault weapons…a cause celebre’ for Gun Rights Advocates expired in 2004.
These are the Guns that Paranoid Gun Owners fear will be taken away by President Obama, if he reinstates the assault weapons ban.
But ..as reported in Newsweek…”Justice officials were instructed to DROP the issue, according to administration and congressional aides who asked not to be named due to political sensitivities.”
“Last Year Democrats received 20% of the nearly $1.2 million that the NRA pumped into congressional coffers- more than Twice what it gave to Dems just six years earlier.”
Of course, all that could change if these well armed,crazy shooters keep doing what they’ve been doing.
April 4th, 2009 at 3:31 pmThat depends on what you consider fun, Alecto.
Although…I never bow my head for grace when I’m with the family, and I know that sets their teeth on edge. That is kind of fun… ;)
April 4th, 2009 at 3:32 pmSJBG Says:
Regarding the Pittsburgh shooter: This fella was worried about someone taking away his guns, and he reacted by demonstrating precisely why perhaps some people ought not to have guns? What a fool…
Can you say “Self-Fulfilling Prophecy”
April 4th, 2009 at 3:34 pm<3 alecto
April 4th, 2009 at 3:35 pm“Makes for fun conversations”
April 4th, 2009 at 3:36 pmI’ll bet!!
When Chimpy first installed Karzai, I can remember commenting that he’d be lucky if the Afghans didn’t assassinate him immediately for being in bed with the hated Americans.
As far as I’m concerned, Karzai remains a weak and corrupt puppet who has done nothing for his nation – he is simply determined to hang on to power for as long as he can (and most likely enriching himself in the process).
All this cozying up with the religious whackjobs in Afghanistan is just one more way he can retain his tenuous hold on his power. He’s a weak, greedy, corrupt little man who will do whatever it takes – even up to and including letting men rape their wives and stone their daughters – in order to maintain his power.
And for the record? I’m an atheist now as well. Born and raised a Methodist, became more agnostic as the years went by — and after 8 years of Bush, I’m proud to say I’m an atheist, and I think (like some here) that religion is only a tool used to control the masses – and it ought to be abolished.
April 4th, 2009 at 3:51 pmWasn’t Karzai installed by the Bushies because of Cheney’s Afghanistan oil pipeline desires? Karzai was a lobbyist (or representative) for Unocal.
April 4th, 2009 at 3:54 pmLibellula saturata Annie Said:
“…religion is only a tool used to control the masses – and it ought to be abolished”
Not abolished, just taxed, bigtime, like entertainment, which is what it is. Whateverway magicians are taxed should be the way religion is taxed.
April 4th, 2009 at 3:56 pmOT, sorry…Any new’s of where I can hear Randi Rhodes?…Is she back on radio anywhere.?…..Thanks for any info..Blessings
April 4th, 2009 at 4:03 pmAlecto, haha!
April 4th, 2009 at 4:07 pmThat appeals to me. Instead of giving them tax-free status, we should tax their income and tax their service with excise tax – for entertainment.
Of course, that is a daydream never to be realized.
This is one reason I do not own a gun. My constant anger with the Reichtwing nutjobs would have pushed me over the edge, and I would have been on the TeeVee a few times already shooting up a GOP headquarters or some event or other. Just remember, if you are gonna go, take out as many of the opposition as possible. For them to show that their “opposition” is poor people who are trying to become citizens just proves that they are batshit crazy.
My opposition would be like Bilderberg meeting.
April 4th, 2009 at 4:09 pmWitch1
April 4th, 2009 at 4:10 pmI don’t think Randi is on the air these days. Some kind of problem with Nova shutting down. I suspect Malloy is a victim too, but I can’t be sure. He may be on subscription radio.
Thanks Lady Marie, I did not think she was on…What prompted my question was a fight I just had with my closeted drunk, reich winged neighbor while I was working in the yard..He came over spitting crap about Obama raising the tax on tobacco and it went from there…After LMAO at him and telling him to stop listening to his junkie reich winged crap he informed me he was just listening to Randi Rhodes on 1090 what ever and I said she’s been off the air for month’s…Jeebos, Thought I was correct but one never know’s for sure considering how quickly thing’s can happen…So much for living among the uninformed and deluded…Back to the yard work now that the drunk is back nursing another beer…Blessings and happy posting…
April 4th, 2009 at 4:18 pmOT
WithNova folding, and AirAmerica still teetering, we still were able to swing this ship-o-state around. Imagine if we truly had a Liberal Media, with Left Wing radio as available as the Reichtwing Hate radio, or the TeeVee networks. We would be living in nirvana by now.
April 4th, 2009 at 4:24 pm“He came over spitting crap about Obama raising the tax on tobacco…”
Tell him to raise his own tobacco….
April 4th, 2009 at 4:27 pm;)
My Dad, who was a pretty bright guy, had a favorite saying about religion:
“Among the thousands of religions, sects, and cults in the world, the only belief they seem to share is that all the others are wrong. I suspect they are ALL right”.
April 4th, 2009 at 4:29 pmIt’s the central asian OIL access route and everything else is an excuse to divert your attention.
April 4th, 2009 at 4:32 pmSpin doctors.
I agree with President Obama 100% and I am most definitely a conservative. This is an abhorrent law and I find it repugnant. I think that President Obama played this one VERY well though. Our mission in Afghanistan is that of rooting out and defeating Al Qaeda, in an effort to make America safer.
I do think that it is needful to note that the USA, has no business dictating the laws of other countries.
Even George Washington stated, early that, “no nation has the right to intermeddle in the internal concerns of another.”
April 4th, 2009 at 4:34 pmDr Matt,
April 4th, 2009 at 4:35 pmJust imagine what we could achieve if we had a Left wing media machine the likes of the Reightwing. and for all their media power, they have been unable to keep the truth hidden as long as they wanted.
Very sensible comment. Thanks.
April 4th, 2009 at 4:38 pmJAJ Says:
Even George Washington stated, early that, “no nation has the right to intermeddle in the internal concerns of another.”
April 4th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
But we can, and should, have an influence on one another.
April 4th, 2009 at 4:38 pmWell added, Zoo.
April 4th, 2009 at 4:39 pmThanks, ralph. :-)
April 4th, 2009 at 4:43 pmI agree Zooey!
I think a free country, like the USA will always have influence on the world. Since the days of independence the USA has been an influence. Yet encouragement and influence are all we can do. We demonstrate there is a better way yet when all boils away we must allow them the exercise the governmental powers with which they are governed.
April 4th, 2009 at 4:46 pmImagine Bush if he were confronted with this: Uh, I don’t know, well, I mustn’t interfere with other countries, hmmm, well, what would true Republicans think if we make women equals?? He would have melted, unable to cope with any real decision in such an important issue.
April 4th, 2009 at 4:56 pmHi JAJ.
April 4th, 2009 at 4:56 pmWell Hello Hooda!!!
April 4th, 2009 at 5:10 pmI’m glad Obama made a statement about this new ‘law’. I’m all for understanding and respecting cultural context, until it infringes on the human rights of peoples in said culture.
This ‘law’ strikes me as an easing back into the days when Afghani women were shot in the head in the soccer stadium for various infractions against the culture or religion.
I would not like to see a return to that. Hopefully they will take note and realize that in a modern world, disregarding rights and womens rights in particular is not ok.
April 4th, 2009 at 5:14 pmBozo The Neocootiebug Says:
“Some of the early reports out of Pittsburgh indicate the man who shot three cops today was fearful that the Obama administration was going to “take away his guns.”
I.R.O.N.Y
April 4th, 2009 at 5:26 pmJAJ Says:
I agree Zooey!
I think a free country, like the USA will always have influence on the world. Since the days of independence the USA has been an influence. Yet encouragement and influence are all we can do. We demonstrate there is a better way yet when all boils away we must allow them the exercise the governmental powers with which they are governed.
April 4th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
No, that is not “all we can do.” That’s why we have diplomats.
April 4th, 2009 at 5:28 pmHow can we bring the world into the 21st century, when so much of it wants to live 1300, 2000, or even 6000 years ago? Instead of teaching people that if they are good, they will be rewarded when they die? Why not just teach them that they should be good because it’s the right thing to do? Why not teach people to empathize with one another because it’s the right thing to do? Why not teach people that they don’t have to accept divine explanations of events, when perfectly valid scientific (and reproducible) ones exist? It’s the 21st century. We’re not living like we did 1300 years ago, or 2000 years ago, or 6000 years ago, or even in the Stone Age.
There’s a whole galaxy out there to explore, but we’re never going to get off this planet (let alone out into the galaxy) if we keep living in the past.
April 4th, 2009 at 5:28 pmralph the wonder locust says
My take is that spirituality is an innate part of human psychology, and can inspire great insight. But most humans aren’t really capable of great spiritual insights — they’re very difficult to achieve, for one thing and require openness of mind that few people are able to muster — and in the absence of that openness, religion becomes a means for people to give themselves and their lives a structure to ward off the confusion of a huge, cacophonous world
It has been my life experience that Religion – in general – suppresses and stifles spirituality. I agree that an open mind and self-introspection are the best guides to true spiritual awareness.
April 4th, 2009 at 5:36 pmIsn’t it obvious that the the views of constitutional issues held by a Supreme Court nominee are pertinent? And isn’t it obvious that abortion isn’t a concern of the Veteran’s Administration?
April 4th, 2009 at 5:44 pmWonderful post Wayne.
It seems to me that people who fall into the mental paradigm of institutionalized patriarchy, whether that is religion or government or some other structure, share several characteristics.
They are full of fear and tend not to have intolerance of uncertainty.
They need to have rigid structures to feel secure.
They tend not to consider anyone not in their in-group to have validity in many aspects.
I think if people start to see the fallacies in thinking of some of these people you speak of, then perhaps their influence can be effectively counterbalanced, at least in areas where that influence can negatively affect people.
April 4th, 2009 at 5:50 pm“As long as the husband is not traveling, he has the right to have sexual intercourse with his wife every fourth night,” Article 132 of the law says. “Unless the wife is ill or has any kind of illness that intercourse could aggravate, the wife is bound to give a positive response to the sexual desires of her husband.”
**
was this law written by
dennis prager?
:::
this is not a joke question.
:\
April 4th, 2009 at 5:51 pmoops
I meant to say they have intolerance of ambiguity.
:]
April 4th, 2009 at 5:51 pmHow did that end up here?
April 4th, 2009 at 6:00 pmSeems to me that telling Afghanistani and Pakistani folk that they are “bad” people because some of them badly mistreat and abuse women looks kinda suspicious coming from some other nation which cannot keep ‘religious’ leaders from ‘marrying’ multiple, teen-age brides, and impregnating them behind the facades of specious “churches.”
but mebbe that’s just me?
April 4th, 2009 at 6:30 pmIn primitive countries such as this for women to stand up for themselves is likely fatal.
April 4th, 2009 at 6:30 pmBut I wish they would anyway. Does that make me a bad person?
Meanwhile, it is true that, where women have control over their reproductive faculties, living conditions improve for all.
April 4th, 2009 at 6:33 pmHowever you choose to label it, this law is a huge violation of personal freedom, inherent rights, privacy, and equality. That’s something the west knows leads to huge unnessesary misery for their society.
Maybe the Aphgans will come around. It’s the only way to resolve the dissagrement in the end. The Sharia law will be ammended in small increments. Otherwise aphganistan will remain a weird land in a bubble far far away for the rest of the world.
April 4th, 2009 at 6:59 pmThe Aphgan government should recognise that this law is going to be very very bad for their economy.
April 4th, 2009 at 7:03 pmMen obtaining sex by way of force are cowards. So cowardly they would run away limp if their woman decided to be the dominant aggressor.
April 4th, 2009 at 7:18 pmEver hear of Indonesia and Turkey? Both muslim and both democratic countries with modern ideas and infrastructure!
April 4th, 2009 at 7:42 pmSo their gov. say`s that a wife must have intercourse at least every four day`s, unless she is sick. What is sick is a woman is not aloud to leave her house with out a relative(male).When they are aloud to go out they are covered from head to toe.Unbelievable.
April 4th, 2009 at 7:48 pmEver hear of Indonesia and Turkey? Both muslim and both democratic countries with modern ideas and infrastructure!
I would add to the list, the democratic country with the second largest Muslim population….INDIA
Pakistan is also interesting…the Muslims in the WEST are Pashtuns, cousins to Afghanis, and much less moderate.
In the EAST, Pakistanis are much more related to more moderate Muslims in India.
And we think we have problems with Red State-Blue State.
April 4th, 2009 at 8:08 pmsscncturn64 Says:
I never have liked aloud woman, I do allow them to speak freely but not too loud! :)
April 4th, 2009 at 8:27 pmThis is so unbelievable. I urge all of you to write President Karzhi and let him know how unacceptable this is, given what we are doing for his country.
http://progressiveforever.blogspot.com/
Hugz – Kandy
April 4th, 2009 at 8:50 pmThere’s a word that defines the circumstance when one person
legally owns the rights to anothers body.
Oh yeah, I think it’s called….. SLAVERY.
And there’s some god fearing christians that share that identical viewpoint.
April 4th, 2009 at 8:50 pmSex Slavery?
April 4th, 2009 at 9:26 pmI’ve always had a thing for Slavic secretaries.
April 4th, 2009 at 9:28 pmBabushka secretaries? Wow.
April 4th, 2009 at 9:32 pm*snort*
April 4th, 2009 at 9:35 pmEconomist: US collapse driven by ‘fraud,’ Geithner covering up bank insolvency
Stephen C. Webster
Published: Saturday April 4, 2009
In an explosive interview on PBS’ Bill Moyers Journal, William K. Black, a professor of economics and law with the University of Missouri, alleged that American banks and credit agencies conspired to create a system in which so-called “liars loans” could receive AAA ratings and zero oversight, amounting to a massive “fraud” at the epicenter of US finance.
But worse still, said Black, Timothy Geithner, President Barack Obama’s Secretary of the Treasury, is currently engaged in a cover-up to keep the truth of America’s financial insolvency from its citizens.
The interview, which aired Friday night, is carried on the Bill Moyers Journal Web site.
FULL ARTICLE HERE:
April 4th, 2009 at 10:35 pmhttp://rawstory.com/news/2008/Economist_US_collapse_driven_by_fraud_0404.html
The US won’t let consenting adults get married. That’s strange.
The US allows for hate to spread while calling it freedom of speech.
chimpy’s war allows for torture and worse.
April 4th, 2009 at 11:12 pmOff Topic, but, North Korea has launched its Missile. No word on whether it made orbit or what the payload is. And this one I do blame on George Bush and Condi Rice.
April 4th, 2009 at 11:15 pmYeah, ain’t decocracy grand?
Maybe the President of Afghanistan can invite bill O’reilly so speak at the bills signing..after all..this IS a move a appease religious elements in the Afghan polticial scene before an election, and bill always did think there should be more religion in government…oh wait…whats that..oh..he meant CHRISTIAN religion..nevermind..
April 4th, 2009 at 11:53 pmSanctioning lust and legalizing rape.
Yeah… that’s what the world needs, *sigh*
April 5th, 2009 at 12:05 am>I think there is similar language in the bible
I’m not sure what your point is unless your trying to argue that the fundamental tenements of christianity are just as misogynistic as those of fundamentalism islam?
April 5th, 2009 at 12:23 amSuper glue works wonders.
April 5th, 2009 at 12:28 am
April 5th, 2009 at 3:09 amENT!
April 5th, 2009 at 3:10 am
April 5th, 2009 at 3:11 am
April 5th, 2009 at 3:12 am
CONTROL DEMOLITION IS ALSO ABHORRENT!
April 5th, 2009 at 3:12 amTHE USE OF MERCENARY ARMY IS ALSO ABHORRENT!
April 5th, 2009 at 3:13 amApril 5th, 2009 at 3:15 am
April 5th, 2009 at 3:18 am
April 5th, 2009 at 3:27 am
Oh yeah, President Obama isn’t on a honeymoon. He is rockin overseas and repugs can’t stand it.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
teabaggers repugs just don’t understand.
teabagger trolls are not the opposition to the dems, they are the silly club of obstructionist LOSERS (they prove it every day.) that want to continued to destroy the US and gain control of the ME using the “Willy Nilly” methods.
NO plan…lie…no plan…more lies…numbers pulled out their flabby white asses. As if hey know what’s happening
repugs explain to us why you replace the letter “O” with an “0?” Seems like you don’t know shit. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA EXPLAIN YOU BACKWARD ASS RACIST CLUB?
A hardy chuckle to the club of goose eggs.
April 5th, 2009 at 6:11 amFrom Today’s NY Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/05/world/asia/05afghan.html?hp
KABUL, Afghanistan — President Hamid Karzai ordered a review on Saturday of a new law that has been criticized internationally for introducing Taliban-era restrictions on women and sanctioning marital rape.
…he said Western news media reports were misinformed. Nevertheless, he said his justice minister would review it and make amendments IF the law was found to contravene the Constitution and the freedoms that it guarantees.
IF changes are needed, he said, the bill would be sent back to Parliament.
IF! Stay tuned….
April 5th, 2009 at 6:58 amsacopenapa Says:
Please, friend, if you’re gonna go all creative in your spelling, try to remember not to embattass yourself in ALL CAPS BOLDFACED?
April 5th, 2009 at 9:57 amwhen did the move the ‘t’ key into the ‘r’ slot?
April 5th, 2009 at 9:58 amJim Wolf359 Says:
Off Topic, but, North Korea has launched its Missile. No word on whether it made orbit or what the payload is. And this one I do blame on George Bush and Condi Rice.
**
it crashed.
…
April 5th, 2009 at 2:11 pmtokin librul Says:
sacopenapa Says:
Please, friend, if you’re gonna go all creative in your spelling, try to remember not to embattass yourself in ALL CAPS BOLDFACED?
Barking liberal… please! Don’t
yourself either!
As per Obama’s policies and ‘rethorics’ I’ll will use his rethoric to point out the things which are as Abhorrent as a ‘no news’ coming from Karzai… a puppet placed in Kabul by the US. And now the US is not happy with him anymore, they want to replace him with another puppet. Obama is doing precisely what the previous administration did. That is, to play along with the TERRORIST STATE OF ISRAEL and to creat a belief that Iran is the threat. We’ve been through these kind of propaganda before with Iraq’s WMD, Democracy promotion, etc. So when Mr. Obama say that he finds ‘Abhorrent’ what the US puppet said in Kabul, it warrants blockquotes and bold typefaces. That is what people do when they are fed empty rethoric…
Today for example, Mr. Obama clearly expressed that the US will continue with the ‘Missil defense system’ in Europe… I ask you, what is the difference between Bush’s policy reagarding this ’shield’ and Oabama’s? The same questions regarding yet another ‘Surge’ in Afgahnistan? Drones attacks in Pakistan! Where is the Change!
So… Yes! I am very disapointed with the new president!
He said ‘Combat troops will leave Iraq, but quietly the Pentagon is re-branding ‘combat troops’ so to give the impression they are not there anymore! No CHANGE THAT YOU CAN BELIEVE there!
But what got me to re-think Obama was what he said about the Israeli MASSACRE in Gaza.
He said the Israel has the right to defend itself, it has the right to exist and that Hamas (The democraticly elected Palestinian Authority) has to abandone violence and the arms smugling.
All this is very good, but is the oposite true? Is Israel/US/UK going to abandone violence and the arms smugling too?
But it got worse. Mr. Obama gave the example of his doughters… he said if they were israeli children living under rocket attacks he would defend them… How beautiful! I would love to ask him if they were Palestinian Children living under the attack of cluster bombs and white phosfurus, all ‘USA made’, if he would fell the same way!
I find Obama’s empty rethoric and no CHANGE, Abhorrent.
PS. I did celebrated his victory, but that didn’t last long because all that change talk was a campaign tatic only.
April 5th, 2009 at 3:31 pmShit happens, that’s democracy, too.
You cannot bring “democracy” to a country and then keep dictating it what’s acceptable and what’s not.
Democracy = majority rule.
It sucks for Republicans right now, and it sucks for women#s rights in Afghanistan.
Democracy is no cure-all medicine.
April 5th, 2009 at 4:39 pmAm I wrong or does the Sharia Law allow the marriage between an adult and children as young as 8?
If this case is true then this new law legalizes child rape, because at least it is between a male an his wife (no matter what her age is).
Correct me if I am wrong.
April 6th, 2009 at 9:28 amJUST ANOTHER ONE OF OBAMA’S PICK,ALL THE OTHER LOSERS ARE RUINING THIS COUNTRY.HE IS ALREADY IN THE TOP 10 WORST PRES EVER,SAME AS BUSH.
April 7th, 2009 at 4:20 pmOK Pat obviously senile dementia has set in. Time to see the nice young men that will need to take care of you soon.burun estetigi rent a car arac kiralama
April 18th, 2009 at 6:01 amsac ekimi