Obama Hints At Torture Investigation: ‘We Are Moving A Process Forward’
Obama Hints At Torture Investigation: ‘We Are Moving A Process Forward’
Earlier this month, a Spanish court said it would consider opening a criminal case against six Bush administration officials “over allegations they gave legal cover for torture at Guantanamo.” The Spanish attorney general said today that he would not recommend a case, but Judge Baltazar Garzon “will decide whether to press ahead with a criminal investigation.”
Thus far, Obama administration officials have tried to skirt questions on the matter. On Tuesday, Press Secretary Robert Gibbs responded, “We may have some reaction based on what ultimately happens.” Today, CNN’s Juan Carlos Lopez asked Obama about the investigation ahead of his trip to Mexico. Obama repeated his desire to look forward:
OBAMA: I’m a strong believer that it’s important to look forward and not backwards, and to remind ourselves that we do have very real security threats out there. So I have not had direct conversations with the Spanish government about these issues. My team has been in communications with them.
Obama did, however, say he was aware of a “process” moving forward in the U.S. to “understand” what happened under Bush. Notably, he did not endorse or rule out an investigation or commission:
I think that we are moving a process forward here in the United States to understand what happened, but also to focus on how we make sure that the manner in which we operate currently is consistent with our values and our traditions.
Obama concluded: “And so my sense is, is that this will be worked out over time.” Watch it:
It’s unclear what process Obama is referring to. Sen. Pat Leahy (D-VT) has prominently called for a truth commission to investigate Bush-era abuses, but he is uncertain whether it can proceed. House Judiciary Chairman John Conyers (D-MI) recently called for “congressional investigations,” “a blue ribbon commission, or “independent criminal probes to be conducted by federal prosecutors.”
Attorney General Eric Holder told Katie Couric last week that a commission is something that “Senator Leahy, the people in the Senate Judiciary Committee, the President will ultimately have to decide.”
Transcript:
Q: Spanish judge Baltasar Garzón is considering a lawsuit filed by attorneys representing six Spaniards who were at one point held at Guantanamo. And that lawsuit wants to go after President Bush’s legal team. What is your reaction to that?
OBAMA: Well, you know, obviously I’ve been very clear that Guantanamo is to be closed, that some of the practices of enhanced interrogation techniques I think ran counter to American values and American traditions. So I’ve put an end to these policies. I’m a strong believer that it’s important to look forward and not backwards, and to remind ourselves that we do have very real security threats out there.
So I have not had direct conversations with the Spanish government about these issues. My team has been in communications with them. I think that we are moving a process forward here in the United States to understand what happened, but also to focus on how we make sure that the manner in which we operate currently is consistent with our values and our traditions.
And so my sense is, is that this will be worked out over time.
Holder also stressed that intelligence community officials who acted reasonably and relied in good faith on authoritative legal advice from the Justice Department that their conduct was lawful, and conformed their conduct to that advice, would not face federal prosecutions for that conduct.
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Well, get on it Obama!!!!
April 16th, 2009 at 12:19 pmLet the DOJ do their freaking jobs….if they do what they should do….
…then BushCo should be on trial for WAR CRIMES.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:23 pmPresident Obama:
You’d darned well BETTER be moving forward with this.
Spain abdicated that task today, I saw in a headline.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:25 pmI’m a big football fan and this reminds me of watching a brilliant kickoff return. If you watch the best returners, they don’t take the kick and just take off running full speed. They wait for their blockers to hit their blocks and then they find the hole before they’re off to the races. Obama is letting his blockers do their job first. The Spanish have started an investigation, Leahy has opened the door to a truth commission, Conyers has laid out a handful of possibilities, and Eric Holder has officially kicked the ball downfield to Obama. It’s now up to him to read the blocks and find his way through the chaos into the open field to pick up the easy 6 points.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:25 pmand to pay off our national debt, we have have cheney, bush and gonzo being frog walked in orange jumpsuits down pennsylvania ave televised globally on pay per view.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:26 pmPresident Obama:
You’d BETTER move forward on this, because Spain just decided not to.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:26 pmWhat is it with these comments? I had the word “f**k* (spelled out) hidden in a URL, and TP wouldn’t allow it to print.
So when I put “darned” into a post, and it didn’t show up, I thought THAT word was in their stupid filter. So I posted my golden words again…sorry.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:28 pmSorry, Brian Crooks, but I see President Obama punting on this one.
And no one will be happier than I to see myself proven wrong.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:29 pmI’m still not optimistic about justice being served. What’s up with the torture memos that are supposed to be released today?
April 16th, 2009 at 12:30 pmYup. My memory serves me today.
Spanish AG: No torture probe of US officials
April 16th, 2009 at 12:30 pmthe republicans are waist high in deep crap now. progress is finally taking shape.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:30 pmSee it > believe it.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:31 pmI think that we are moving a process forward here in the United States to understand what happened.
How about some transparency and accountability? That process will come from one of three branches of government.
Executive
Legislative
Judicial
Obama’s Executive Branch will be involved in any Judicial determinations. These two routes seem out, given the President’s desire to go forward.
That leaves the Legislative, Congress. That seems to be at a dead end.
President Obama’s imprecise talk sounds like a dodge. There may be a path to understanding, but the road to accountability/justice is very rocky.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:33 pmI don’t want to understand what happened…I already know.
What I want is a GD prosecution!
April 16th, 2009 at 12:34 pmthe only thing that will prevent obama from moving forward on this is the ‘ugly’ republicans. There figuring out a way to circumvent this process right now, I can hear the threats from the republicans now.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:36 pmCRAZY CRAZY people ….. I wonder what would you do if you have your family kidnaped and on the verge of been killed, and you had one of the kidnapers in your hands.
Would you sit down with him for cookies and lattes ????
you guys clearly have never lived in a place where violence is part of daily commute.
Some people in this world just not understand dialog. Fanatics do not want to have conversations.
These people are raised and grow to kill innocent people just because they do not share a religious belief.
WAR is not wishful , but it is real and it is them or us. Pick a side and stop the BS.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:37 pmIf you read the Holder interview, he states investigating torture is not his job at the moment. It’s dealing with Guantanamo detainees.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:37 pmIt is pretty clear that the president doesn’t want to take any action that would, in the short term be labeled or percieved as partisan.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:37 pmThat said, he may well wait for other ‘bubble up’ events to set the stage for an investigation, then prosecution of those who blatantly broke the law and violated the Constitution.
I wonder, are we going to see what’s in those torture memos they have to release today, or will they be redacted?
April 16th, 2009 at 12:38 pm.
To Date:
Warrantlessly spying on Americans and TORTURE are nonpunishable in America.
.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:39 pmWow, this has become a fukundrum. According to Spain’s Attorney General and CIA Chief Leon Panetta:
1. The people who ordered the torture can’t be charged, because they did not commit the acts.
2. People who did the torturing cannot be investigated or charged with crimes, because they were ordered to torture by government high ups.
I can’t wait for Mafia lawyers to get a hold of this legal reasoning.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:40 pmI hope you’re right, Brian Crooks.
I hope you’re right.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:45 pmevanking Says:
Some people in this world just not understand dialog. Fanatics do not want to have conversations.
These people are raised and grow to kill innocent people just because they do not share a religious belief.
Does this include our home-grown christo-fanatics?
April 16th, 2009 at 12:45 pmstateofthedivision,
One can extrapolate from their position that Hitler was innocent, NO?
.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:45 pmCRAZY CRAZY people ….. I wonder what would you do if you have your family kidnaped and on the verge of been killed, and you had one of the kidnapers in your hands.
Would you sit down with him for cookies and lattes ????
you guys clearly have never lived in a place where violence is part of daily commute.
Some people in this world just not understand dialog. Fanatics do not want to have conversations.
These people are raised and grow to kill innocent people just because they do not share a religious belief.
WAR is not wishful , but it is real and it is them or us. Pick a side and stop the BS.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:46 pmExit Stage Left Says:
evanking Says:
Some people in this world just not understand dialog. Fanatics do not want to have conversations.
These people are raised and grow to kill innocent people just because they do not share a religious belief.
Does this include our home-grown christo-fanatics?
I am actually not a religious person.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:47 pmI do not go to any church.
I believe in respect the others and other opinions as well.
There are fanatics everywhere and regarding several issues.
You seems to be fanatic for progressives… Can you leave your box for 1 minute and try to understand other’s point o view?
So…nothing new.
The issue is a VERY BIG DEAL to anyone with an ounce of human sympathy, a sense of moral justice, an appreciation of the primacy of egalitarian rule of law and a rational concern about international relations.
A part of me demands that Obama STOP FENCE-SETTING!
BUT just because there is a pile of public evidence, it has to be sorted to make a case tat will stand up to severe legal scrutiny, and the case will have to be prosecuted with tremendous certitude. The range of possible charges is immense, and who to charge, too? This is a long-term project.
Obama’s frequent re-iteration of “moving forward” suggests he’s not going to pursue this because it will be “too traumatic” or some-such.
But if he IS going to actually redress the wrongs perpetrated and bring people to justice, why would he play his hand and declare his intentions right now?
I’m prepared to wait, for a couple of years–remind him of my (our)concerns, but not yet demand definitive answers.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:50 pm.
Dear evanking,
Name the redeeming quality to TORTURE?
Name the redeeming quality to war crimes?
Name the redeeming quality to usurping the Constitution of the USA?
Name the redeeming quality to outing a covert CIA agent; TREASON?
Name the redeeming quality to lying to the Senate?
Name the redeeming quality to fomenting aggressions directed at America?
.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:50 pmSome here have wondered if Obama would release the Bush torture memos. He certainly had me wondering.
The Daily Kos claims he did, today. Just minutes ago.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:50 pmevanking Says:
CRAZY CRAZY people ….. I wonder what would you do if you have your family kidnaped and on the verge of been killed, and you had one of the kidnapers in your hands.
Would you sit down with him for cookies and lattes ????
you guys clearly have never lived in a place where violence is part of daily commute.
Some people in this world just not understand dialog. Fanatics do not want to have conversations.
These people are raised and grow to kill innocent people just because they do not share a religious belief.
WAR is not wishful , but it is real and it is them or us. Pick a side and stop the BS.
OKAY…. I choose MY SIDE!!!!!!
April 16th, 2009 at 12:51 pmCould this have anything to do with the Obama Administration appearing to back off full disclosure of the “torture memos”? Could it be that they want to preserve the integrity of evidence in a future prosecution? I certainly hope so.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:57 pmwow, evan, fear much?
why are right wingers such sissies?
April 16th, 2009 at 12:58 pmdon’t be fooled….Obama will do nothing. he’s already guilty of war crimes, violating the constitution and his oath.
he’ll have to join Bush et al at the Hague.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:00 pmI wonder what would you do if you have your family kidnaped and on the verge of been killed, and you had one of the kidnapers in your hands.
My dad used to ask me this question, when we had political conversations when I was a teenager. Now I’m 52.
So far, so good…no one’s broken into my house, no one’s kidnapped me or my family…so I don’t have an answer for my dad, or evanking.
Because I’ll never know how I’ll feel until that ACTUALLY HAPPENS. I, or evanking, might THINK I KNOW EXACTLY HOW I’LL FEEL if and when that happens, but I DON’T.
And that is true. To claim to KNOW you’ll know how you’ll feel under a hypothetical set of circumstances is ridiculous.
I remember when reporters asked President Bush uncomfortable questions like this, but ones he didn’t want to answer, so he didn’t, claiming he wouldn’t answer a hypothetical. evanking, I’m gonna have to plead a Dubya here, and with every right that George had to do the same when asked what would happen to the person who leaked Valerie Plame’s identity, and other leading questions. I’m sure you understand, fully.
Would you sit down with him for cookies and lattes ????
Nice bold there. When you bold the whole thing, that means that EVERY WORD YOU WRITE just jumps off the page, embedded in our brains forever. Thank you for that service!
ha ha
Nice multiple question marks, too.
you guys clearly have never lived in a place where violence is part of daily commute.</b
You have? Where did you teabag yesterday, evanking? Any violence to report? Any limbs shot off, buckets o’ blood, heads rolling in the streets?
Thought not.
Some people in this world just not understand dialog. Fanatics do not want to have conversations.
When I read those words, you, evanking, came to mind IMMEDIATELY.
These people are raised and grow to kill innocent people just because they do not share a religious belief.
WAR is not wishful , but it is real and it is them or us. Pick a side and stop the BS.
Uh-huh.
evanking, you remind me of Sarah Palin.
Pure comedy GOLD, baby!
ha ha
April 16th, 2009 at 1:00 pmif he blocks this for any reason, it will have to be one of the greatest tap dances in the history of spin. frankly, i don’t think even he’s that good.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:00 pmMax Anax junius -1 Says:
.
Dear evanking,
Name the redeeming quality to TORTURE?
April 16th, 2009 at 1:03 pmNo quality and I think it is wrong. But going after officials that where making decisions on behalf of the american people safety for allowing water boarding is nonsense and dangerous for the future safety of this nation. You did not like it and you vote them out! This is the american process.
Name the redeeming quality to war crimes? NONE. War crimes must be judge. But this is not war crimes…come on !!!!!
Name the redeeming quality to usurping the Constitution of the USA? Are you talking about the bail outs, which started with Republicans? The 90% tax targeted to a specific group of people? please elaborate…
Name the redeeming quality to outing a covert CIA agent; TREASON? What do you mean ???? I think any CIA agent performing their duties to the country must have their identities protected.
Name the redeeming quality to lying to the Senate? Oh…there is a lot of people in this group !!!! Democrats, Republicans and independents!!!
Name the redeeming quality to fomenting aggressions directed at America? You mean 9-11?
Evan, thanks for the repost, we love it when people spam… thinking that it makes their point clearer.
Bold… next time in caps please.
Tin foil hats and cries of “the sky is falling” are optional.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:07 pmevan sure is a particularly cowardly one, even for a weak little republican pansy
why are you whiny right wingers so easily frightened?
April 16th, 2009 at 1:07 pmevanking, you are a complete ignoramus
April 16th, 2009 at 1:08 pmObama will release memo’s today.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/4/16/720817/-Obama-Administration-Will-Release-Torture-Memos
April 16th, 2009 at 1:08 pmDaddy-O Says
evanking, you remind me of Sarah Palin.
Pure comedy GOLD, baby!
ha ha
I think you are complementing me . Thank you.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:09 pmI do not make fun or really disrespect anyone in the Blog.
I just think it is very healthy to have civil discussions.
So if you think my experience living in latin america for 35 years do not bring anything new to your cultural existence , be my guest to make fun of it.
But I am sure you are not smarter than anyone in the Blog. So try not to be condescending and dismissive.
And by the way, I think W Bush was one of the worse presidents. Carter wins the prize though. So I am not partizan. I just have a different take on those issues because I have lived outside US for a long time.
I heard that the CIA warned President Obama and Leon Panetta that if they opened up this investigation the intelligence community would leave the administration high and dry.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:10 pmlol, even isn’t partisan but still thinks carter was worse than bush and reagan
so transparent
April 16th, 2009 at 1:10 pmevanking, “24″ is a television show. And you are an idiot.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:11 pmRantingTommy Says:
evan sure is a particularly cowardly one, even for a weak little republican pansy
why are you whiny right wingers so easily frightened?
As I said my friend I am not a Republican. I do not even vote. I am an Immigrant.
As a progressive you should take kindly of me.
I just have a different opinion than you do.
I guess you could understand this “right”?
April 16th, 2009 at 1:12 pmBefore I get on to my point, let me address this feckless fool…
evanking Says:
CRAZY CRAZY people ….. I wonder what would you do if you have your family kidnaped and on the verge of been killed, and you had one of the kidnapers in your hands.
Would you sit down with him for cookies and lattes ????
______________
FFFFFFFFFFFFF UUUUUUUUUUU… you snide cretin.
That’s NOT what it’s about. If for ONE SECOND you REALLY, TRULY thought about it, you might understand it. But I feel safe saying you don’t really want to, period.
It’s NOT about terrorists. It’s about US… the American people, and how we see ourselves. When we torture, we’re as bad as the people we’re fighting. I guess you have no problem being on par w/ the Nazis, the Khmer Rouge, and the Inquisition, huh? We’re supposed to be BETTER than that.
I know this is completely LOST on you, but so it goes.
You’re a disgusting fraud, defending the indefensible. What a stone idiot.
___________
Meanwhile… my other point…
What an F-in’ mess BotchCo left for his successor.
Obama will be damned if he does, and damned if he doesn’t here.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:13 pmMr Obama, this isn’t about “values and traditions”, it’s about the LAW!.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:13 pmevanking Says: “I wonder what would you do if you have your family kidnaped and on the verge of been killed…”
My father and his colleague were kidnapped by the Palestinian Liberation Organization whilst my father was trying to negotiate the release of hostages in the simultaneous hijacking of three airliners in 1970. He was held for two days.
He and his colleague TALKED their way out of being killed, and returned to carry negotiations with the hijackers.
“you guys clearly have never lived in a place where violence is part of daily commute.“
I commuted to school in London on the train from 1970 to 1978. The IRA bombed two pubs in my hometown of Guildford–my bother was in one of the pubs at the time and I and my dad had to go look for him. London was bombed multiple times.
I once forgot my school bag on a station platform, underneath a bench.
By the time I was able to tell the authorities about it, the army had already blown it up–suspecting it to be an IRA bomb.
Negotiations halted the bombings that were part of my commute talking to terrorists saved my father’s life and the lives of hijacked passengers.
Now FCUK OFF!
April 16th, 2009 at 1:14 pmDoodlebug Shayne Says:
evanking, “24? is a television show. And you are an idiot.
I guess I am the idiot but you are the one that can’t bring an argument to the table.
good for you .
April 16th, 2009 at 1:14 pmevanking Says:
I do not even vote.
_________
You don’t vote? then Shut Up…
_________
I am an Immigrant.
__________
Actually, truthfully? I think you’re a fraud and a liar.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:15 pmevanking, you live in a country that chooses to torture, good for you. Stay there. But keep in mind that the people held and tortured by the Bush administration hadn’t kidnapped anybody and so your argument doesn’t fit here.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:15 pmSays the one who spams board with crazy crazy rantings…I hope you have a large supply of paper bags to help you with that hyperventilation problem you have there buddy…
April 16th, 2009 at 1:16 pmI don’t think the President is the type to tip his hand at the poker table.
Because, when you do that, you lose.
But that doesn’t mean the cards won’t get played, or that the rules won’t be followed.
It’s hard to keep up with a sharp mind schooled not only in Law, but poker and basketball too, both of which are rife with subtle strategies. Obama implements a lot of strategic feints that political observers are not accustomed to.
I’m enjoying seeing these hands play out. There is much more to come, and being behind by 8 in the first quarter is thoroughly inconsequential.
(apologies for blending b-ball and poker metaphors)
April 16th, 2009 at 1:16 pmevanking Says:
I guess I am the idiot but you are the one that can’t bring an argument to the table.
___________
I just gave you a VALID argument above.
And what is YOUR argument?
Cookies and milk?
An eye for an eye?
You’re a fraud.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:16 pmevan, you aren’t fooling anyone
you are a right wing coward that is either too ignorant to know about the world or too much of a coward to face it
torture is a coward’s reaction. it takes courage to remain true to your ideals.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:17 pm5th Estate Says:
______________
Well said, 5th Estate…
evanking is a phony.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:17 pmI say, Evan, I’m still not getting you–why don’t you try red text?
April 16th, 2009 at 1:18 pm5th Estate Says:
evanking Says: “I wonder what would you do if you have your family kidnaped and on the verge of been killed…”
My father and his colleague were kidnapped by the Palestinian Liberation Organization whilst my father was trying to negotiate the release of hostages in the simultaneous hijacking of three airliners in 1970. He was held for two days.
He and his colleague TALKED their way out of being killed, and returned to carry negotiations with the hijackers.
“you guys clearly have never lived in a place where violence is part of daily commute.“
I commuted to school in London on the train from 1970 to 1978. The IRA bombed two pubs in my hometown of Guildford–my bother was in one of the pubs at the time and I and my dad had to go look for him. London was bombed multiple times.
I once forgot my school bag on a station platform, underneath a bench.
By the time I was able to tell the authorities about it, the army had already blown it up–suspecting it to be an IRA bomb.
Negotiations halted the bombings that were part of my commute talking to terrorists saved my father’s life and the lives of hijacked passengers.
Now FCUK OFF!
Why use bad language my friend.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:19 pmTry to make your point without insulting others.
I guess you have credibility doing so.
And by the way, I’ve lived in a place where I did not know if I was going to get back home alive after work, every single day. I know what violence is.
Oh, I agree about evanking being a phony, particularly when they generalize how progressives SHOULD behave.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:19 pmBrian Crooks Says: “I’m a big football fan...”
That’s not football, Brian, that’s ‘throw-carry-ball/wrestling’
April 16th, 2009 at 1:20 pmFootballis an entirely different game. :D
evanking Says:
CRAZY CRAZY people ….. I wonder what would you do if you have your family kidnaped and on the verge of been killed, and you had one of the kidnapers in your hands.
Me, personally? So now you’re endorsing vigilantism on top of torture and illegal rendition?
Quit being such a whiny little crybaby. If you want to live under a government that gets to do whatever it wants in the name of “protecting” you, then go live in some third-world totalitarian banana-republic dictatorship. Have fun. But you do not get to turn America into one, just so you can stop wetting the bed at night. Pussy.
.
evanking Says:
Would you sit down with him for cookies and lattes ????
*sigh*
Yeah, sure. Thats exactly what we’re advocating. It’s either torture or cookies. Maybe we’ll have a nice tea party while we’re at it.
.
evanking Says:
you guys clearly have never lived in a place where violence is part of daily commute.
Actually, you’re the ones who are romanticizing it in a way that demonstrates you don’t have any idea what you’re talking about. Jack Bauer, anyone? In real places where people deal with violence daily they hope that the governing authority will behave legally and responsibly instead of violating its own laws and making things worse.
.
evanking Says:
Some people in this world just not understand dialog. Fanatics do not want to have conversations.
These people are raised and grow to kill innocent people just because they do not share a religious belief.
Oh come on, evangelical Christians aren’t all bad…
.
evanking Says:
WAR is not wishful , but it is real and it is them or us. Pick a side and stop the BS.
I side with the United States of America, under the Constitution thereof. What’s yours?
April 16th, 2009 at 1:20 pmRantingTommy Says:
evan, you aren’t fooling anyone
you are a right wing coward that is either too ignorant to know about the world or too much of a coward to face it
torture is a coward’s reaction. it takes courage to remain true to your ideals.
Why am I ignorant? Just because I do not agree with you?
April 16th, 2009 at 1:21 pmAre you the keeper of the truth?
I respect your position. I am not disrespectful to you just because I do not agree with you.
Obama is waiting for public demand to build high enough to make investigations and prosecutions politically feasible. The memo releases may do this. The Spanish inquiry pushes this along too, we can take care of our own criminals, thank you. Republicans have been reduced to the radical fringe.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:22 pmevanking Says:
And by the way, I’ve lived in a place where I did not know if I was going to get back home alive after work, every single day. I know what violence is.
__________
Then you SHOULD understand that violence only begats more violence, huh?
You’re presenting a false equivalency.
You’re claiming that since “they’ behave so badly, it’s okay if “we’ behave just as badly too.
It’s NOT.
Sorry… but you appear NOT to have a valid point to make.
You’re a fraud.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:22 pmevanking Says: Are you stark raving mad? Terrible analogy.
There are people being held at Guantanamo & Bagram that may not have not committed a crime – should they be tortured?
If American gov’t allows torture, what will other countries that capture our soldiers do to them? Should they be tortured?
Maybe you should be waterboarded.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:22 pm.
Dear evanking,
When you said, “Name the redeeming quality to TORTURE?
No quality and I think it is wrong. But going after officials that where making decisions on behalf of the american people safety for allowing water boarding is nonsense and dangerous for the future safety of this nation. You did not like it and you vote them out! This is the american process,” are you also leaving room for the extrapolated argument that indeed, Hitler was innocent? After all, he did all he did for the love and safety of his people, NO? Or are you postulating that torture is OK if ordered by Americans?
What then, made it illegal in the first place?
Were we wrong to execute torturers of the past, you know, the trials of Japanese torturers after WWII? and was the US Military wrong to prosecute our own service members in Vietnam for their participation of the very same crime? Where is your feigned outrage about those injustices, then? Why aren’t you calling for an official apology for that?
Of course it’s not war crimes when America does it, YES?
But go ahead, defend TORTURE…
… If that’s how you wish to define your character.
Your family will thank you for it later…
… Especially when terrorists come take them and torture them.
We all see which side you stand on…
… And it’s not on your families future’s side.
.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:23 pmevanking Says
Why use bad language my friend.
_____________
Because we’re just so tired of OBVIOUS PHONIES like you coming here and doing such disgusting things as DEFENDING TORTURE.
In your own words, you don’t vote and you’re an immigrant.
You’re not in a position to tell us who WE are or how WE should run our country.
In my opinion, you’re a phony.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:25 pmMaybe President Obama would listen if patriotic Americans started a grass roots movement to prosecute Bushco.
Evan seems to have presumed the guilt of detainees without any proof. They ALL want to kill Americans so it’s ok to torture them. Effing idiot!
“This is not war crimes” Really Evan? Breaking international treaties and torturing detainess is most definately a war crime. Starting a pre-emptive war of choice against the UN is most definately a war crime. Your snark on usurping the Constitution as being about taxes is pretty laughable. How about withdrawing Haebeus Corpus, spying on Americans without a warrant, witholding thousands of possibly incriminating e-mails and subverting the Hatch Act, outing an active CIA undercover agent?
April 16th, 2009 at 1:25 pmElBruce Says:
evanking Says:
WAR is not wishful , but it is real and it is them or us. Pick a side and stop the BS.
I side with the United States of America, under the Constitution thereof. What’s yours?
You people get to excited when someone that thinks different come to blog with you.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:26 pmELBruce, I can assure you that you could not survive 1 week at my home country. Do not call me a pussy without knowing better.
I love this country and this is why I “choose” to live here. I think the american constitution is one of the greatest documents ever written. So please disagree with respect.
I’m with you, Evan, my dear father was abducted by aliens and those motherscratchers don’t dialogue!
April 16th, 2009 at 1:27 pmevanking Says:
I respect your position.
__________
evanking Says:
CRAZY CRAZY people ….. I wonder what would you do if you have your family kidnaped and on the verge of been killed, and you had one of the kidnapers in your hands.
Would you sit down with him for cookies and lattes ????
you guys clearly have never lived in a place where violence is part of daily commute.
___________
Right right right…
When you come onto a thread and immediately start insulting people, you aren’t “respecting them”.
You’re a phony.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:27 pmThe Republic of Hymenoptera Stupidity Says:
evanking Says
Why use bad language my friend.
_____________
Because we’re just so tired of OBVIOUS PHONIES like you coming here and doing such disgusting things as DEFENDING TORTURE.
In your own words, you don’t vote and you’re an immigrant.
You’re not in a position to tell us who WE are or how WE should run our country.
In my opinion, you’re a phony.
First I do not defend Torture. I was making a point for what not going after bush administration.
You Vote them out, remember !!!
furthermore , I think progressives were inclusive people. So are you against legal immigrants? I pay taxes too you know!!!
April 16th, 2009 at 1:28 pmLets wait and see what he does first before we jump down his throat on this issue. Obama’s not stupid, he knows he can’t keep avoiding this forever. The “process” he was referring to might suggest something going on behind the scenes. Obama showed on the campaign trail that he is subtle and careful about how he approaches things. He didn’t always move as fast as we wanted but at the end of the day he got the job done.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:29 pmevanking Says:
But going after officials that where making decisions on behalf of the american people safety for allowing water boarding is nonsense and dangerous for the future safety of this nation. You did not like it and you vote them out!
But if the decisions they made are to commit an act that is illegal, then voting them out is insufficient, because it fails to deter the next person to hold that office from doing it again. By your argument, no elected official can be prosecuted for anything they do. If politicians are above the law, then it’s not a democracy.
.
evanking Says:
Name the redeeming quality to war crimes? NONE. War crimes must be judge. But this is not war crimes…come on !!!!!
It was a war crime in Nuremburg, according to our own prosecutors. Therefore, it’s a war crime now.
.
evanking Says:
Name the redeeming quality to usurping the Constitution of the USA? Are you talking about the bail outs, which started with Republicans? The 90% tax targeted to a specific group of people? please elaborate…
There’s no 90% tax in effect, either now or in Obama’s tax plan. You do not know what you are talking about.
That aside, it seems you don’t have a very clear grasp on what “un/constitutional” means. It does not mean just that you agree or disagree with something. It means that that something is illegal according to the words printed on the Constitution of the U.S.A. Nothing you’re complaining about is unconstitutional.
.
evanking Says:
Name the redeeming quality to outing a covert CIA agent; TREASON? What do you mean ???? I think any CIA agent performing their duties to the country must have their identities protected.
He’s referring to Dick Cheney exposing the identity of Valerie Plame as a CIA agent. Oh yeah, you believe that elected officials are above the law, though.
.
evanking Says:
Name the redeeming quality to lying to the Senate? Oh…there is a lot of people in this group !!!! Democrats, Republicans and independents!!!
He’s referring to lying to the Senate under oath. Like a court of law, the Senate can put you under oath and prosecute you for perjury if you lie to them during that period. Dick Cheney has also done this.
Do you like not watch the news or something?
.
evanking Says:
Name the redeeming quality to fomenting aggressions directed at America? You mean 9-11?
Yes, exactly like that. Also, talking about secession, arming yourself as a political act, talking about having revolutions, etc. The same kind of talk that led to 9-11. The stuff that you wingnuts are doing right now.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:30 pmevanking Says:
ELBruce, I can assure you that you could not survive 1 week at my home country.
__________
How, PUL-LEEEEEEEASE… what SILLY BS.
__________
Do not call me a pussy without knowing better. I love this country.
__________
I’d personally say, not only do you NOT love it, you really DON’T understand it.
It is incredibly PRESUMPTUOUS to come here and tell we do not understand our own country and we’re WRONG about how we want to be seen as Americans.
You’re a FRAUD.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:30 pmspring heeled jack Says:
I’m with you, Evan, my dear father was abducted by aliens and those motherscratchers don’t dialogue!
Here is someone I can relate with.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:31 pmGreat sense of humor!
evanking Says:
First I do not defend Torture. I was making a point for what not going after bush administration.
_________
I’m sorry, but you did too.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:32 pmProgressives generally are inclusive people, some of us don’t take kindly to someone marching in the room, labelling them as crazy people (in capital letters, no less) right out of the gate, then demanding respect afterward.
Kind of like trying to stuff the genie back in the bottle.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:32 pm.
Dear evanking,
We aren’t exactly ‘excited when someone that thinks different’…
… Let’s just call it befuddled.
According to the AFM(Army Field Manual), Geneva Conventions, and U.S. Criminal Law, waterboarding IS torture.
Now, I’m befuddled that in the same breath, you agree that TORTURE is an unnecessary evil that should not be tolerated, AND you utter the idea that TORTURE is indeed tolerable because US Officials were involved.
WHICH IS IT evanking?
Is TORTURE intolerable or is it not.
You’re proposing a dichotomy.
Who wins that argument when it is about principles, laws and morals?
.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:33 pmevandink Says:
And by the way, I’ve lived in a place where I did not know if I was going to get back home alive after work, every single day. I know what violence is.
You lived in Detroit?
April 16th, 2009 at 1:34 pmThe Republic of Hymenoptera Stupidity Says:
evanking Says:
ELBruce, I can assure you that you could not survive 1 week at my home country.
__________
How, PUL-LEEEEEEEASE… what SILLY BS.
__________
Do not call me a pussy without knowing better. I love this country.
__________
I’d personally say, not only do you NOT love it, you really DON’T understand it.
It is incredibly PRESUMPTUOUS to come here and tell we do not understand our own country and we’re WRONG about how we want to be seen as Americans.
You’re a FRAUD.
________________________________
So I am presumptuous because I have a different opinion.
And I do not have any rights to even discuss it because I am an Immigrant.
VERY progressive of your part.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:34 pm.
Hey everyone,
evanking thinks if US Officials came and tortured his family, it’s cool!
.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:35 pmevan is a pansy, like most right wingers
calls us “crazy people” then laments that we don’t respect his debating style
total fraud, total coward, total moron
April 16th, 2009 at 1:36 pmevanking Says:
So are you against legal immigrants? I pay taxes too you know!!!
___________
When did I say that?
You came onto the thread demanding attention, posting belittling comments in LARGE CAPS.
You insulted ALL of us here, saying we DON’T UNDERSTAND blah blah blah…
Then you went on to say you don’t vote…
WTF?
Why are you even here telling us this BS?
You’ve done nothing but surrepitously insult us w/out making a single valid point, and now YOU’RE the aggrieved, wounded party?
Cookies and milk?
Up yours.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:36 pmevanking Says:
“WAR is not wishful , but it is real and it is them or us. Pick a side and stop the BS.”
Fine. Change the laws. Otherwise, this is criminal behavior. Afterall, we are a nation of laws. So, either follow them, or you are a criminal.
It’s really quite simple.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:36 pmMax Anax junius -1 Says:
.
Dear evanking,
We aren’t exactly ‘excited when someone that thinks different’…
… Let’s just call it befuddled.
According to the AFM(Army Field Manual), Geneva Conventions, and U.S. Criminal Law, waterboarding IS torture.
Now, I’m befuddled that in the same breath, you agree that TORTURE is an unnecessary evil that should not be tolerated, AND you utter the idea that TORTURE is indeed tolerable because US Officials were involved.
WHICH IS IT evanking?
Is TORTURE intolerable or is it not.
You’re proposing a dichotomy.
Who wins that argument when it is about principles, laws and morals?
___________________________
This is the kind of discussion I was expecting to have.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:37 pmCivil. You brought a good argument.
As I said, I really think torture is not ok.
Maybe I was not on point on my first posting.
I am against going against the last administration over this.
Governments have their agenda and YOU VOTE Bush and Republicans out already.
Evanking, I’m sorry, when you pull the old liberals drink latte card you’ve blown your coverstory. No well-meaning foreign national talks that crap.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:38 pmevanking Says:
So I am presumptuous because I have a different opinion.
___________
YOU HAVEN’T PRESENTED A DIFFERENT OPINION, *arse hat.
You came onto the thread insulting people and now you’re trying to pretend you’ve been offended.
Cookies and milk?
You’re a fraud.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:38 pmspring heeled jack Says:
Evanking, I’m sorry, when you pull the old liberals drink latte card you’ve blown your cover story. No well-meaning foreign national talks that crap.
___________
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
April 16th, 2009 at 1:39 pmPssst.. evan, Grand Theft Auto is not real little guy, that dangerous place you escaped from is deep within your mind.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:39 pmThe Republic of Hymenoptera Stupidity Says:
evanking Says:
So I am presumptuous because I have a different opinion.
___________
YOU HAVEN’T PRESENTED A DIFFERENT OPINION, *arse hat.
You came onto the thread insulting people and now you’re trying to pretend you’ve been offended.
Cookies and milk?
You’re a fraud.
____________________
Let me know what were you offended by.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:40 pmWhat in my words offended you?
“You all are CRAZY CRAZY”
“Uh, you sound crazy actually”
“You have no arguments! You hate immigrants!”
wtf dude
April 16th, 2009 at 1:41 pmevanking Says:
This is the kind of discussion I was expecting to have.
Civil. You brought a good argument.
___________
Right right right… that’s why you started off posting this comment… because you wanted “good discussion”.
___________
evanking Says:
CRAZY CRAZY people ….. I wonder what would you do if you have your family kidnaped and on the verge of been killed, and you had one of the kidnapers in your hands.
Would you sit down with him for cookies and lattes ????
____________
You weren’t looking for “serious discussion” at all.
You’re a fraud.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:42 pmnanlichi Says:
Pssst.. evan, Grand Theft Auto is not real little guy, that dangerous place you escaped from is deep within your mind.
_________________
Maybe I should pay you a plane ticket to my old neighborhood in south america.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:42 pmEvan says:
You HAVE been told over and over again, and since you continue to read only what you WANT to read, it further proves you are a fraud.
Go back up the thread and read…
April 16th, 2009 at 1:42 pmThe DoJ or the house will have to take on past crimes for one thing 99.99% of crime happens in the past. There are/were people that were damaged because of chimpy’s blatant disregard of our Constitution.
I know President Obama will do the right thing; so far he has in so many different avenues.
chimpy’s crimes will come to light. I’m not privy to the info or resources that President Obama has on hand. So I will wait listen and watch the teabag repugs dig their own damn graves.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:43 pmEvanKing, meet 24. Oh, You’ve met! My foolish.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:43 pmevanking Says:
Would you sit down with him for cookies and lattes ????
Actually, the professional interrogators have stated that interacting with prisoners in just such a way yields much more useful information than torture ever has. So, yeah, I’d say get some Starbucks and Cheryl’s Cookies to go.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:44 pm.
Evanking said:
Why?
Was TORTURE a good thing?
Can future Administrations do it, too?
The Rule of Law needs to know…
… Or is it simply a case of exceptionalism?
.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:44 pmY tambien pudias chupar la verga evancito. Eres mas macho que dos mujeres. Cual pais? O es secreto?
April 16th, 2009 at 1:44 pmevanking Says:
Maybe I should pay you a plane ticket to my old neighborhood in south america.
____________
TRoHS’ Corollary #2: When the poster you’re debating starts introducing unverifiable autobiographical information to the commentary in order to give his, or her, personal opinion more validity, you’re almost certainly dealing w/ a PHONY.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:45 pmI hate lattes
April 16th, 2009 at 1:45 pmYeah, and dammit, I like COFFEE flavored coffee! ;)
April 16th, 2009 at 1:46 pmhellinabucket Says:
I hate lattes
___________
I think I’ve had maybe ONE in the last ten years.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:46 pmTo ignore the actions of any past administration is ignoring every americans constitutional right. We need to continually demand for an open government.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:47 pmWe did not “vote him out” he was unable to hold the office any more. When we tried to vote him out he stole the election in much the same way he stole his first election. We obviously were not in control of the election and then Bush felt free to do whatever he felt without the approval of the people. It is now time to pay the piper.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:47 pm.
Dear evanking,
If US Officials took your family and TORTURED them, that’s cool, YES?
.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:47 pmnanlichi Says:
Y tambien pudias chupar la verga evancito. Eres mas macho que dos mujeres. Cual pais? O es secreto?
_____________________
Telling someone to Suck your d… is not a very good argument.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:48 pmI was born in Brazil. So I do not speak Spanish as it is needed for a proper conversation. I speak portuguese.
Took you a while to look it up. Just as I thought, phony as a three peso bill.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:49 pmevanking Says:
So if you think my experience living in latin america for 35 years…
Let me guess, you used to be a Pinochet supporter?
.
evanking Says:
ELBruce, I can assure you that you could not survive 1 week at my home country.
Just what hellhole is that, for the record?
.
evanking Says:
I think the american constitution is one of the greatest documents ever written.
You just voice support for the people who are pledged to uphold it, violating it. See, I don’t just think of it is “great” like it’s the Code of Hammurabi or something else that’s been made redundant by history. I see it as being currently in effect. You merely respect it in theory, while in practice you uphold shredding it entirely.
.
evanking Says:
So please disagree with respect.
No. Fcuk off.
.
evanking Says:
First I do not defend Torture. I was making a point for what not going after bush administration.
You are defending torture. That is exactly what you’re doing. You’re saying that torture should carry no legal consequences, and backing that up by complaining about safety, replete with ridiculous examples involving kidnapping, vigilantism and other fearmongering.
.
evanking Says:
furthermore , I think progressives were inclusive people. So are you against legal immigrants? I pay taxes too you know!!!
I don’t give a rodent’s rectum about your immigrant status or any other personal details. All I’m concerned with is the fact that you’re defending torture.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:51 pmThis seems encouraging to me.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:51 pmI had thought that they were basically saying that there would be no investigations on this.
Guess I’m wrong . . again. Dammit !
I just hope the ‘process’ that is moving forward morphs into a real investigation that doesn’t provide cover.
Well if you’re more comfortable with a country that tortures anybody they want too maybe you should move to one of those. Don’t come here trying to change this country into something you’re comfortable with.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:51 pmMuy niza!
April 16th, 2009 at 1:52 pmThe Republic of Hymenoptera Stupidity Says:
evanking Says:
Maybe I should pay you a plane ticket to my old neighborhood in south america.
____________
TRoHS’ Corollary #2: When the poster you’re debating starts introducing unverifiable autobiographical information to the commentary in order to give his, or her, personal opinion more validity, you’re almost certainly dealing w/ a PHONY.
______________
I really mean what I say and I am really an immigrant from Brazil.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:52 pmWhat else do you wanna know? Would that make you fell better?
Or you just can not stand someone with a different opinion?
I respect all good people that posted valid arguments here without calling others names.
I find it amusing to read posters on here who think that this could all happen within the first 90 days of this administration. Eric Holder took over the DOJ when? How long does it normally take a prosecution team to investigate, come up with a case, convene a grand jury, etc? The wheels of justice do not turn as quickly as the internet. Please wait until they dimiss charges before you get your panties in a wad. I have faith that they are working on this behind the scenes. They cannot make it all public or the Busheviks will take measures to quash the efforts. Please calm down, folks.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:53 pmWellllll, aren’t you special.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:53 pmTo be fair, you have yet to make ANY argument. At least, nothing resembling a coherent statement backed up with some kind of logical support, facts, or evidence.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:53 pmDoodlebug Shayne Says:
evanking Says:
Maybe I should pay you a plane ticket to my old neighborhood in south america.
Well if you’re more comfortable with a country that tortures anybody they want too maybe you should move to one of those. Don’t come here trying to change this country into something you’re comfortable with.
________________
I am not trying to change it more than you are.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:53 pmThis is a country of free speech. We can disagree but I would never try to shut you off.
What you have is not a different opinion.
You don’t have an argument all you have is generalizations and attack.
You could have just said you disagreed and then gone on to say why.
You didn’t do that.
You lose.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:55 pmevanking is what I would call a Wolf In Sheep’s Clothing (WISC?) troll, someone who claims to be a member of a particular group that progressives tend to support (immigrant, physically handicapped, veteran, learning disabled, etc), starts an argument, then whines about our “hypocrisy” toward a member of that group when we get critical. WISC trolls’ only purpose is to try to make us look bad.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:56 pmI’m not trying to change them at all. I want the laws and treaties on the books obeyed and any that aren’t prosecuted. GET IT?
April 16th, 2009 at 1:57 pmevanking – English much???
I know you are pushing your two brain cells to the limit, but really, you sound like a complete idiot.
You may be from Brazil, but maybe you should not be posting nonsense…
….it only makes conservatives look that much more ignorant…
…oh, forgot, they are.
April 16th, 2009 at 2:01 pmPatrioticLiberalChristianMantisReligiosa Says:
evanking is what I would call a Wolf In Sheep’s Clothing (WISC?) troll, someone who claims to be a member of a particular group that progressives tend to support (immigrant, physically handicapped, veteran, learning disabled, etc), starts an argument, then whines about our “hypocrisy” toward a member of that group when we get critical. WISC trolls’ only purpose is to try to make us look bad.
_______________
Lady,
I was not the one who started using words like Idiot, Stupid, phony, pussy…
You are demanding respect for the rights of people who are in jail accused of terrorism against the US , but you can not respect a blogger with a different opinion?
April 16th, 2009 at 2:03 pmTalk is cheap; especially from a politician, irregardless of their party affiliation. I’ll believe it when I see it.
April 16th, 2009 at 2:05 pmBuckie Boy Says:
evanking – English much???
I know you are pushing your two brain cells to the limit, but really, you sound like a complete idiot.
You may be from Brazil, but maybe you should not be posting nonsense…
….it only makes conservatives look that much more ignorant…
…oh, forgot, they are.
__________________
What I say is nonsense but what you say is valid?
April 16th, 2009 at 2:07 pm“I know you are pushing your two brain cells to the limit,” – there is no polite way to call someone “retard”. IF this is what you’ve meant why don’t you just say it? Too politically incorrect for you?
Your very first post:
Sounds very much like you’re looking for level-headed, intelligent debate, yes.
April 16th, 2009 at 2:10 pmSo far at least.
Pick a damn topic and stay on it. Form an argument. Support it with facts.
April 16th, 2009 at 2:12 pmevanking Says:
Governments have their agenda and YOU VOTE Bush and Republicans out already.
I wonder what would you do if you have your family kidnaped and on the verge of been killed… and that kidnapper was a government official.
Would you merely wait until the next election and then politically support his opponent? That’s all?
What if term limits apply and he won’t be able to stand for re-election?
What if the next person taking office sees what they can get away with and decides to do whatever they want? Wait another four years?
.
PatrioticLiberalChristianMantisReligiosa Says:
evanking is what I would call a Wolf In Sheep’s Clothing (WISC?) troll…
That’s never gonna work here. We aren’t the “nice” progressives. Maybe they’d have better luck over at, I don’t know, the Mother Jones blog or something, where the real hippies hang out. Then they’ll be respected as individuals among a group that politely but quietly disagrees. While having cookies and lattes…
No, this is the place where defending torture gets you a virtual boot to the face.
.
evanking Says:
You are demanding respect for the rights of people who are in jail accused of terrorism against the US , but you can not respect a blogger with a different opinion?
Being mean to you = torture?
Pussy.
April 16th, 2009 at 2:13 pm.
Dear evan,
Why won’t you answer my simple question?
If US Officials tortured your family, it’s cool?
.
April 16th, 2009 at 2:16 pm“Don’t look backward.”
Means:
- don’t learn from your mistakes.
- a new argument for criminal defense attorneys around the country.
- being President means you don’t have to follow the law.
And, a big WTF on this one:
OBAMA: I’m a strong believer that it’s important to look forward and not backwards, and to remind ourselves that we do have very real security threats out there.
Therefore, torture abuses should not be investigated or prosecuted? WTF?!?!?
April 16th, 2009 at 2:19 pmIf US Officials tortured your family, it’s cool?
Depends on which relatives!
ba-da-boom!
April 16th, 2009 at 2:20 pmAlphaLiberal,
How do we know where we are headed…
… If we refuse to examine that path we have been traveling?
.
April 16th, 2009 at 2:26 pmMax Anax junius -1 Says:
.
Dear evan,
Why won’t you answer my simple question?
If US Officials tortured your family, it’s cool?
________________
NO. But I doubt anyone from my family would be captured in a terrorist camp or would be associated with any form o jihadist.
In any event people, I just think it is wrong to start prosecuting past administrations over this. But I can understand that your argument is that it doesn’t matter the person or one’s faith or creed. You believe that it was wrong and as it happened with guantanamo prisoners it could happen with anyone , including US citizens.
April 16th, 2009 at 2:26 pm.
#1233 evanking said:
Please explain why?
.
April 16th, 2009 at 2:28 pmSo your argument is that it’s wrong to prosecute criminal acts?
April 16th, 2009 at 2:29 pmSo Evan, if you commit a ton of crimes, but make it to the end of your administration, you win? You sure you’re not a republican?
April 16th, 2009 at 2:31 pmBrian Crooks @ 4 has it right, I think, although I apologize for not reading all the comments–yet.
I’d compare this to Obama’s handling of the pirate incident or his smack-down of Chipmunk-of-the-Press Ed Henry. Obama, I believe, will let the process take it’s course, wait until all the condemning evidence is clear and then act decisively and correctly.
Or, as Limpballs put it, “Bam bam bam”.
April 16th, 2009 at 2:31 pm.
#16 evanking opening volly said:
There’s that ubiquitous “YOU PEOPLE…” argument again!
#36 evanking retort to the redeeming quality to TORTURE said:
So, going after your family and torturing them is a good thing? They may, or may not be terrorists, that is why they would be called, “SUSPECTS”. Just like at Gitmo, NO? So, where’s the difference?
.
April 16th, 2009 at 2:37 pmevanking Says:
But I doubt anyone from my family would be captured in a terrorist camp or would be associated with any form o jihadist.
What if the officials holding them made a mistake?
.
evanking Says:
In any event people, I just think it is wrong to start prosecuting past administrations over this.
It’s extremely important to do so, or else the Constitution is meaningless. Any potential future President would know that they can get away with the most heinous violations of law with no consequences to them whatsoever – at least as long as nobody finds out about it until their second term in office. And the worst consequence they could suffer is to lose the next election? Big deal. How are they going to lose when they can throw all of their opponents in jail with no charges and torture them at will?
I guess you can take the boy out of South America, but you can’t take South America out of the boy…
.
evanking Says:
You believe that it was wrong and as it happened with guantanamo prisoners it could happen with anyone , including US citizens.
It’s just a fact that the majority of people originally held at Guantanamo have been released with no charges or evidence against them. But many of them were tortured first. So, yes. It can happen to anybody; guilt or innocence is irrelevant when the government is incompetent.
.
woodguy Says:
I’d compare this to Obama’s handling of the pirate incident or his smack-down of Chipmunk-of-the-Press Ed Henry. Obama, I believe, will let the process take it’s course, wait until all the condemning evidence is clear and then act decisively and correctly.
That does sound like his approach. If a full and appropriate procedural discovery process takes place first, then Obama can avoid accusations of doing a political hitjob, or of criminalizing politics.
April 16th, 2009 at 2:45 pmevanking Says:
——————————————————————————–
nanlichi Says:
Pssst.. evan, Grand Theft Auto is not real little guy, that dangerous place you escaped from is deep within your mind.
_________________
Maybe I should pay you a plane ticket to my old neighborhood in south america.
————-
You’re on. Please send your remittance to TP right away. They have my E-mail address so I trust them to send it to me.
When should I put in for time off from work?
April 16th, 2009 at 2:58 pmHolder said today that it “would be unfair to prosecute dedicated men and women working to protect (Germany) for conduct that was sanctioned in advance by the (Reich Chancellory),” announcing that he would not prosecute (Gestapo and SS) officials who committed torture.
April 16th, 2009 at 3:25 pmYou’re welcome, Mr Obama.
Use this same argument of “Moving Forward crap” with the Nazis and Japanese War Criminals and one can really grasp the Absurdity of the argument!
April 16th, 2009 at 3:30 pmObama, War Crimes have been committed, you and your AG are in charge now, if you look away, they are YOUR WAR CRIMES TOO!
OBAMA, THE WAR PRESIDENT.
Obama is the same crap as Bush was… he came in the new package designed to deceive the American people once more! The unending wars and occupation continues, but we have new puppet in the White House!
April 16th, 2009 at 3:36 pmWhile the drones attcks inside Pakistan continue to kill inocent civilians, Obama’s family named their new dog, ‘Bo’…
This is encouraging.
April 16th, 2009 at 4:04 pmI don’t mind if the Obama administration declines to go after BushCo themselves. But they should make the information available and not do anything to block any other agency (whether legislative committee or court) from doing so. It looks like it’s going that way.
April 16th, 2009 at 4:40 pmRighties are all just jacked up on envy,
’cause we’ve got deeper, stronger roots,
and a whole lot more high-quality grass.
April 16th, 2009 at 6:47 pmYou know, trolls remind me of my Dad teaching at Jr. College. He taught Poli Sci 17A & B. He gave the questions to his tests IN ADVANCE, so the students knew what to study. And many still failed his classes.
You-all tell the trolls, so nicely I might add!, “present an argument, site facts, etc.” yet they Still. Can’t. Do it.
God Bless America, we need it.
April 16th, 2009 at 7:07 pmAfter Spain had their elections and went Red, it’s not only those in the Bush administration who are targets but those in President Obama’s administration also. Spain is Red now, their goals aren’t the same goals they had prior to the elections. Which is why President Obama said we are looking forward and not in the past. President Obama knows after Spain went Red they will be watching every move he makes now. Spain’s Red court has about as much creditability as the World Court does. The country doesn’t recognize either.
April 17th, 2009 at 12:53 amOK Pat obviously senile dementia has set in. Time to see the nice young men that will need to take care of you soon.burun estetigi rent a car arac kiralama
April 18th, 2009 at 5:16 amsac ekimi