My GOD you are stupid. The preferred lefty response??? How about the LOGICAL response. We get you are too stupid to even RECOGNIZE logic but to continue to argue a point that any reasonably bright ten year old would have gotten the FIRST TIME is really special of you. Pick up your Special Olympics trophy on the way OUT.

It shows somebody down in the bowels of that organization is either a convinced left winger or somebody whose sexual orientation is somewhat in question.–Pat Robertson

Are you speaking from experience sir? Are those who pontificate as self-appointed messengers of God with t.v. shows, also those whose sexual orientation is somewhat in question?

It’s a shame that it has taken you this long to get a simple point well-supported by evidence. I mean, IF you have finally gotten it.

April 18th, 2009 at 8:14 pm
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Ralph, you were right again, at least partially. I certainly didn’t get why you were displaying this strange response to the hyperbole of the far right:

“I will say it once again, as plainly as I can: mainstream right-wing voices clearly identify themselves as the right-wing extremists that the report warns against.”

It just didn’t make sense that you were insisting on your statement as opposed to the obvious statements of said right-wingers that the govt was labeling people who back certain conservative causes as extremists.

After having read some other left wing sites, I understand completely. It’s the preferred lefty response. I should have immediately assumed it was a concerted effort since it was such a foolish claim. Statements so contrary to the truth are generally used by the most partisan among us.

This demonstrates the point nicely:

“I figured that, since Pat Robertson is reported above to have said, “somebody who doesn’t think that we should have abortion on demand, is labeled a terrorist!” thus expanding the definition of “terrorist” to include himself…”

Obviously, he didn’t include himself as a terrorist, but claimed (wrongly) that the govt labeled him a terrorist. What do you gain by dishonestly insisting that he called himself a terrorist?

It isnt so much I NEED the help but its always worth reading your take on the issue anyway so I am glad you chimed in. I never shy at butting in myself.

Whaa? Pat is still tax exempt? After all the damage he’s done he doesn’t have to contribute anything at all? Sheesh!

Feel free ralph, you are the man.

No, deb, I didn’t address the Che Guevara part of your comment because it was so foolish.
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You didnt address it because you CANT your statement was stupid. The examples were supposed to be of EXTREME LEFTISTS Che or Chomsky would be good enough

Unless you can show where anyone ever said such a commentator exists on American television. It was the “two ticks left if center” part that I addressed. Those that I listed are about as far left as Robertson is right.
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No they arent. Not even close. However that wasnt the example you spoke to. What YOU responded to was Ralph saying that they were IDENTFYING THEMSELVES as extreme rightwingers by claiming THEY were being attacked by the DHS report ABOUT extreme rightwing groups so Robertson isnt the yardstick. Nice try at moving the goalposts but utterly dishonest.

The fact that Colmes didn’t speak up for himself doesn’t change his views, which are far left.
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No they arent. You just think if you SAY something it will become true even if it is as patently and obviously ludicrous as this. I have read one of the guys books he describes himself as a moderate he IS moderate. He is no more far left than Olympia Snowe is far right. It wont become true just because YOU are delusional enough to say it and repeat it.

Garofalo, who is flaky and may well have been canned, had a radio show at one time and is unarguably far left. She pops up as a guest occasionally on the lefty shows on MSNBC. ;)
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Yeah so doese Penn Jillette, Ted Nugent and Chuck Norris. When THEY are considered pundits get back to me. She is NOT a pundit. She is an actess with an opinion. She may be far left. I myself am certainly far left and NOT ONE PUNDIT you mentioned who really IS a pundit is as far left as I am much less what the original POINT YOU RESPONDED TO WAS which was EXTREME LEFT. You can TRY to move those goalposts because you are dishonest if you like but dont expect me to let you get away with it. Bottom line your first statement was flat out stupid.

mickster Says:
I am of the belief that the right wing fully accepts the likes of the Aryan Nation, the Nativist vigilantes, Storm Front (Richard Poplowski – Pittsburg cop killer), abortion doctor murderers, etc as legitimate members of their movemen

It certainly seems so, doesn’t it, mickster?

upright left Says:

No, deb, I didn’t address the Che Guevara part of your comment because it was so foolish. Unless you can show where anyone ever said such a commentator exists on American television. It was the “two ticks left if center” part that I addressed. Those that I listed are about as far left as Robertson is right. The fact that Colmes didn’t speak up for himself doesn’t change his views, which are far left. Garofalo, who is flaky and may well have been canned, had a radio show at one time and is unarguably far left. She pops up as a guest occasionally on the lefty shows on MSNBC. ;)

Eugene, I hope you won’t mind me butting in here…

The point Eugene made was absolutely valid. There are no “far left” pundits in the mainstream media. There is no one as hard left as Hannity is hard right, or Limbaugh, or Robertson. To say Alan Colmes is as far left as Robertson is far right is ludicrous. Not Olbermann, not Rachel Maddow. They both lean left, rachel probably farther than Keith, but neither of them make the kinds of comments that Pat Robertson made the other day.

The views you claim Comes holds aren’t really worth much if he doesn’t present them when given the chance. He’s pretty centrist, actually, not very far left at all. And using Janeane Garafolo as an example? Seriously? She hasn’t had a national forum in almost three years. She’s had nothing to say about this issue, as far as I can tell, and she’s certainly not a prominent voice to compare to Hannity or Robertson in terms of impact, audience or visibility as a “pundit”.

Fact is, Che Guevara IS “far left”. Noam Chomsky IS “far left”. Far left views do not make it into the national discourse the way that far right views do.

What’s ridiculous is trying to claim that Alan Colmes is “far left”.

Now that I think about it, you could be doing the left a favor. If someone with views as unthreatening as Alan Colmes is labeled “far left”, that could make the American people more comfortable with left-wing ideas. more comfortable than they are already, even. I think you should run with it.

upright left Says:
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ralph the wonder locust Says:

What’s this? “I know you are but what am I”? Nicely played, sir. Perhaps I will counter with the trusted “I’m rubber/you’re glue” gambit. let me consider that…

Ok ralph, yet again I have to apologize. But, honestly, how was I to know you would have a problem with that, since it’s the exact same line that you used?

Exactly my point. The absence of imagination in your reflexive retort. I’m surprised you don’t see that. Or perhaps you do see it and just would rather no acknowledge it?

As for the rest of your essay, this line rather blows it: “Thus, they must consider themselves right-wing extremists.” If that came from, say RHF, it wouldn’t be a problem. But you are not generally so blatantly dishonest. Or was that was sarcasm as well?

Again, a point that doesn’t seem like it should be too subtle for you.

The report describes the growing threat from right-wing extremists. Not “conservatives”, not “Republicans”, not “anti-choice forces”. Right-wing extremists. It defines that term pretty clearly, stating that “threats from white supremacist and violent antigovernment groups during 2009 have been largely rhetorical and have not indicated plans to carry out violent acts.”

Yet Pat Robertson, Sean Hannity, John Boehner, and others take it to mean the right wing. For instance, here’s how Lamar Smith (R-TX) characterized the report:

The government considers you a terrorist threat if you oppose abortion, own a gun or are a returning war veteran.

I will say it once again, as plainly as I can: mainstream right-wing voices clearly identify themselves as the right-wing extremists that the report warns against. There is no other way to spin that. Perhaps it’s understandable, as virtually all of the issues listed in the report as likely causes to drive recruitment are issues that the mainstream right=wing is already intently focused on.

To my knowledge, left-wing voices said nothing like this when the earlier report was issued. If you have comparable quotes and links from mainstream voices on the left I would be pleased to see them.

It’s a shame that it has taken you this long to get a simple point well-supported by evidence. I mean, IF you have finally gotten it.

Either cough up the leftist commentators that sound like Che and Chomsky REAL extremists or admit you have NOTHING to back up your original and plainly stupid comment.

April 18th, 2009 at 7:20 pm
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Two posts in a row with “cough up.” A new favorite phrase. ;)

Pompous as always UL. Did I say that ANY comment that disagrees with me is ignorance? Why no I didnt I said THAT comment was ignorant and posted a good logical reason why. I notice you didnt even TRY to cough up the pundits that sound like Che Guevara or Noam Chomsky. No you think snarky pompous weaseling will take the place of logic reason or a cogent argument. It shows the weakness of your position and that you KNOW its weak.

True enough not a far lefty in the group except arguably Garafalo who is NOT a pundit but an actress with an opinion. Colmes is a self described moderate who spent YEARS pretty much agreeing with most of the rightwing opinions on Fox and it is laughable that you would even THINK of putting him on the list I dont know Rhodes but ALL of the rest you put on that list are the two ticks left of center description I was talking about. Certainly you didnt really think that list was of pundits that sound like Che or Noam did you? THAT would be world class delusional

April 18th, 2009 at 6:16 pm
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No, deb, I didn’t address the Che Guevara part of your comment because it was so foolish. Unless you can show where anyone ever said such a commentator exists on American television. It was the “two ticks left if center” part that I addressed. Those that I listed are about as far left as Robertson is right. The fact that Colmes didn’t speak up for himself doesn’t change his views, which are far left. Garofalo, who is flaky and may well have been canned, had a radio show at one time and is unarguably far left. She pops up as a guest occasionally on the lefty shows on MSNBC. ;)

NOOO you didnt. You didnt even come CLOSE to addressing it. YOU posted a list of center lefties and an actress my comment was that there WERE no extreme leftist pundits. No one sounding like Che or Chomsky. You werent within the same GALAXY as addressing that. My comment was factual and yours plain stupid and inane. Not addressing it was not an omission since it was a weak and irrelevant shot. Not even a good try. Either cough up the leftist commentators that sound like Che and Chomsky REAL extremists or admit you have NOTHING to back up your original and plainly stupid comment.

upright left Says:
I thought you were a little brighter than that, ralph.

What’s this? “I know you are but what am I”? Nicely played, sir. Perhaps I will counter with the trusted “I’m rubber/you’re glue” gambit. let me consider that…

Ok ralph, yet again I have to apologize. But, honestly, how was I to know you would have a problem with that, since it’s the exact same line that you used?

As for the rest of your essay, this line rather blows it: “Thus, they must consider themselves right-wing extremists.” If that came from, say RHF, it wouldn’t be a problem. But you are not generally so blatantly dishonest. Or was that was sarcasm as well?
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Upright left Says:
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Eugene atrax robustus Debs Says:
“…The frame for punditry goes from the FAR right to the center left and I mean about two ticks left of center. To deny this is pure ignorance.”
April 18th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
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Hey, deb, how’s it going, bud? Excellent comment about how any disagreement with your opinion is pure ignorance.

Wow. Really nice straw man, there, Uptighty. I see you got one of your dad’s old hats to give it that finishing touch.

Your comment would be valid had I not gone on to address his foolish and false statement. You must have mistakenly omitted that from your post. ;)