http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Afghanistan_Pipeline

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan_Oil_Pipeline

And then there’s Unicol’s involvement. Karzai, President of Afghanistan was an employee and consultant for Unicol back in the late 1990’s.

Check out this info on Unicol – got to Central Asia section.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unocal_Corporation#Domestic_US_Criticism

Daddy-O Says:
You don’t counter terrorism with military troops. If you could, Iraq would be a success story, instead of the utter waste and failure that it is.

Uhm…the Iraq that I just returned from is doing quite well, thank you very much, and quite different than portrayed in our media. While I would never suggest that the nation presents a gleaming beacon of hope, I would also never suggest that it has been a waste; there is 0 question that the country is in a better place than it was. We’re not talking justification here, only results. Progress to be made for sure, but much has already been made.

We Americans are hindered by a federal government and military that carefully manages the dissemination of information. It’s not a matter of having a poor news media, it’s more a problem of having a managed publicity machine IN PLACE OF a free press.

Even so, I guess you can report that the infrastructure that supplies the Iraqi people with electricity and water has been repaired, and that the reports that electricity is only available for about 6 hours per day are false.

And I guess the reports of suicide bombers are false as well. Because during Saddam Hussein’s regime they didn’t have terrorists blowing things up. Unlike the U.S., Hussein understood how to prevent such things from taking place.

And I guess Iraq is better off now that a million civilian deaths have thinned the population.

Glad to hear you didn’t get yourself electrocuted in one of those KBR electro-showers!

I wonder if perhaps the real reason is that most people know that if we were to “PULL OUT NOW!!” The result would be the Taliban coming back to power and Al Qaeda’s sphere of influence expanding? Honestly, if we left there tomorrow, what does anyone here think would happen? The Taliban never held elections, they just seized power and would do so again.

*****
The only reason we’re fighting the Taliban is b/c they’re trying to protect THEIR oil.

ask russia how well they did.

oh but we are better than the russians. right.

imperialism has a price.

payback time on the price.

hey the surge is working like we were told the surge was working in vietnam.

we americans have not learned our lessons yet but we will. every country does. law of karma.

ask japan and germany what price they had to pay for their imperialism?

You don’t counter terrorism with military troops.

You’re right about this, but missed the mark with everything else. There are a million things that Dubya never even considered trying. From what it’s starting to sound like, Obama’s approach to Afghanistan will only include military presence as one of many equal components. If something’s never been tried before, then history can’t debunk it.

.

slip_left Says:

…I believe that Afghan will hard-pressed to even achieve some form of central government (in practicality and not just technicality).

From much of what I’ve read, most rural Afghans listen only to their tribal elders. I think the only really stable solution would be to find a way to co-opt the tribal/elder system, to make that a distributed but integral part of their governmental structure. When you give people a voice, you put them on the side of having something to lose.

Escalation will inflame and recruit more terrorists, but we need more troops?

From my experience, this is not the case (maybe you mean recruitment in other countries?). A successful strategy has been shown to be increasing the risks and costs of terrorism (increased presence and operational tempo, etc…) balanced with increased opportunity for employment and general quality of life through vocational schools, civil watch groups for neighborhood stability, even allowing the professing of past guilt and taking an oath to reform (I for some reason cannot think of the word for this, along the lines of atonement but not). Most of the insurgency that I encountered were young souls looking to earn a quick $50 by placing an IED. These same people are easily deterred through establishing secure neighborhoods and providing opportunites for them and their families.

since we didn’t conditions have changed to the point that fulfilling our original mission priorities is no longer feasible. But I hope that’s not the case.

I’ve heard a lot of talk about a scaled back end-state. Iraq and Afghan are very different, culturally, and I believe that Afghan will hard-pressed to even achieve some form of central government (in practicality and not just technicality).

Uhm…the Iraq that I just returned from is doing quite well, thank you very much, and quite different than portrayed in our media. While I would never suggest that the nation presents a gleaming beacon of hope, I would also never suggest that it has been a waste; there is 0 question that the country is in a better place than it was. We’re not talking justification here, only results. Progress to be made for sure, but much has already been made.

The History of Afghanistan.

Excellent point. And this worries me. We have been able, somehow, to bridge a social gap in Iraq, but I am uncertain of this possibility in Afhgan.

http://rethinkafghanistan.com/videos.php

ElBruce Says:
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It’s hard to criticize him for something he campaigned on. If we that was a deal-breaker, we wouldn’t have supported him in the first place. It’s also harder to criticize Afghanistan (as compared to Iraq) because that’s actually a perfectly justifiable war. Probably the first one we’ve seen since… WWII? The only real argument you could make against it would be to say that although we should have focused our efforts there after 9-11, since we didn’t conditions have changed to the point that fulfilling our original mission priorities is no longer feasible. But I hope that’s not the case.

It’s not hard to criticize anyone when what they’re doing is wrong, and just plain stupid, to boot. And especially when it comes to asking an American soldier to bleed or die when there is no just reason for him/her being there in the first place.

There was no justification for invading Afghanistan. The U.S. turned down legitimate offers from the Afghan government that would have settled the issue between our two countries.

The reason we went into Afghanistan was to secure the construction of an oil pipeline. And the presence of that pipeline is the reason you will be seeing American troops there for years and years to come. All the talk about fighting “terrorists” by terrorizing the civilian population is the smoke and mirrors to hide what’s going on from those who refuse to look behind the curtain.

Sometimes, restraint is the wisest act of all. Sun Tzu said it best: Only go to war when you have no other choice. There was no choice in fighting Japan and Germany. But invading Afghanistan and Iraq will go down in history as wars of choice, for all time.

Alejandro, it is my firm belief that Americans (and others) mostly suffer from the mistaken conviction that they have to do something. But sometimes nothing is the best option.

The Taliban will never go away. They’ve roamed the countryside for eight long years. They remind me nothing so much than another guerrilla war leader, wandering the countryside for years at a time, winning by doing not much more than escaping capture:

George Washington.

Get out now. And fight terrorism the only way you can–by retaining the high moral ground first, and infiltration. I declare that we MUST have infiltrated al Qaeda by now, since I keep hearing about how invading Iraq helped recruitment. Then again, George W. Bush and his cronies have been in charge for the last eight years, so it would not surprise me if this was not a priority.

Feh!

Why is it that threads on Afghanistan always garner a mere handfull of posts? Is it because Obama campaigned on sending more troops to Afghanistan and he is doing just that? And there is little interest in criticizing him?

It’s hard to criticize him for something he campaigned on. If we that was a deal-breaker, we wouldn’t have supported him in the first place. It’s also harder to criticize Afghanistan (as compared to Iraq) because that’s actually a perfectly justifiable war. Probably the first one we’ve seen since… WWII? The only real argument you could make against it would be to say that although we should have focused our efforts there after 9-11, since we didn’t conditions have changed to the point that fulfilling our original mission priorities is no longer feasible. But I hope that’s not the case.

There’s no way to win, folks. Unless the U.S. decides to subsidize their entire economy, at the risk of our own.

Let’s see…how many empires have been ruined trying to contain Afghanistan under their rule? How many countries have withdraw, as if from a queasy dream, from ’subjugating’ Afghanistan? Great Britain, Russia, and now the good old U.S. of A…

It is remote. It is unsuitable for anything except a stop along the Silk Road and growing poppies. Its population is Old School Muslim. Its tribes are the ultimate authority.

There is simply no way to win. And George W. Bush, and Unocal executive Hamid Karzai have shat the bed, folks. The sooner Obama or anyone else with a brain realizes these simple truths, the sooner we can save billions and thousands of valuable GI lives.

Iraq, same thing. Let them pay for their OWN universal health care…

winddancer Says:
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Frankly, I think it’s too late for efforts in Afghanistan because it appears that the real battle has already moved into Pakistan. A country which has nuclear weapons and materials. And the government, having ceded territory to the Taliban, have lit a fire under them to gain power within the entire country, not just the Swat Valley and increasingly in Punjab, only 100 miles from the capitol.

Frankly, I don’t have the slightest idea what we could do about the Pakistan problem, now that we’ve traded nuclear technology for mangos with Pakistan’s enemy: India, in bush-2’s most salutory foreign policy victory.