McCain Reacts To KSM Being Waterboarded 183 Times: ‘One Is Too Much. Waterboarding Is Torture’
McCain Reacts To KSM Being Waterboarded 183 Times: ‘One Is Too Much. Waterboarding Is Torture’
This morning on Fox News, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) responded to the startling information — first noted by blogger Marcy Wheeler — that detainee Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times. “It’s unacceptable,” McCain said, adding:
One is too much. Waterboarding is torture, period. I can ensure you that once enough physical pain is inflicted on someone, they will tell that interrogator whatever they think they want to hear. And most importantly, it serves as a great propaganda tool for those who recruit people to fight against us.
McCain later reiterated his point, “The image of the United States of America throughout the world is a recruiting tool for Islamic extremists.” Watch it:
Despite his outspoken advocacy against torture, he said it was a “serious mistake” for the Obama administration to release the torture memos. “The release of these memos helps no one, doesn’t help America’s image, does not help us address the issue.” Obama adviser David Axelrod said the president’s belief in “the law and his belief in transparency” ultimately convinced him to release the memos.
McCain touted his sponsorship of the Detainee Treatment Act, which “prohibited torture.” In fact, that legislation contained a loophole permitting CIA agents to continue engaging in torture.
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McCain tortured us all by allowing Sarah Palin to be selected as his VP2B.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:04 pm“Make Believe Maverick”
(excerpt, via Rolling Stone)
April 20th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Sen. McCain – It helped me! It made me realize that I was not wrong in my beleif that the Bush Gov’t was making the world more dangerous for everyone
April 20th, 2009 at 12:08 pmDespite his outspoken advocacy against torture, he said it was a “serious mistake” for the Obama administration to release the torture memos. “The release of these memos helps no one, doesn’t help America’s image, does not help us address the issue.”
It was a “serious mistake” to release the memos , but not hold those who penned them and those who asked them to be penned to be held accountable nor to speak up honestly about them , eh you typical GOP apologist shithead ?
April 20th, 2009 at 12:11 pmIt’s kind of nice to have this McCain back — the one who has a principled stand against torture, and one of the few Americans (and probably the only member of Congress) to have any real cred when it comes to this issue.
It’s a pity this McCain hasn’t run for President since 2000. Instead, the GOP got some bizarre gumby doll in 2008.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:11 pmWow, if only he had been so clear and unequivocal during his campaign and for the last six years, he might have gotten some more votes.
I don’t know about others, but when he co-authored the Military Commissions Act, that pretty much told me right there that he’d sell out anything.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:13 pmIf the Glenn Becks and Sean Insanities and Rush’s of the world think water boarding is an effective method of torture, then why would you have to do it more than once? 183 times in a month is 6 times a day, or once every 4 hours.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:14 pmThe President’s belief in the law? He won’t hold CIA operatives accountable and Rahm thinks the memo crafters should be immune.
A belief in the law would be acted upon. A thorough investigation would be step one. The results would determine step 2, but people who broke the law should be held accountable.
What about the President’s belief in international treaty obligations?
The Obama administration can parse words as good as the Bushies.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:15 pmMcCain later reiterated his point, “The image of the United States of America throughout the world is a recruiting tool for Islamic extremists.”
Prepare to be thrown under the right wing slime bus…
“He’s unbalanced!”
April 20th, 2009 at 12:16 pm“He’s a traitor!”
“He was never a real American!”
“Where’s his flag pin!?”
“He’s a liberal!!”
McCain’s “principled stand” against torture consists of what ?
A statement that anyone can sputter out ?
Where is his call for those who committed these type of atrocities , those who tried to claim the legality of them and those who ordered them , to be prosecuted ?
April 20th, 2009 at 12:17 pmBut, but, but Limbaugh just said that if someone can endure something that many times, then it’s not torture.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:20 pm(of course, he never answered, then why do it.)
Was it just funzies or sadism.
.
I bet’cha McCain will be the next (R)ushpublickin’
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/18/limbaugh-mccain-torture/
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April 20th, 2009 at 12:20 pmI wonder what McCain thinks of Rush and Rush’s defense of torture?
April 20th, 2009 at 12:21 pmI wonder what McCain thinks of Rush and Rush’s defense of torture?
April 20th, 2009 at 12:21 pmKhalid Sheikh Mohammed? Wasn’t he that big greasy character with that black, bristly hair all over his back in the photograph that showed his capture? I mean, why waterboard him when you could just shave off a few patches of shoulder hair with a dull razor and get the same results?
April 20th, 2009 at 12:21 pm“The release of these memos helps no one, doesn’t help America’s image, does not help us address the issue.”
He had to throw in at least one RNC talking point or else he would be kissing Rush’s big pimply butt tomorrow.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:22 pmMcCain is wrong again. Releasing the memos was the right thing to do, as it exposes even more just how deeply evil the Bush administration really was. The wrong thing to do is to allow those who crafted the memos and those who ordered the torture to go free. I’m not ready to condemn Obama just yet, as there might be behind-the-scenes actions taking place which would address the illegal actions of the Bushies. I’m willing to wait and see what happens during the next year.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:23 pm.
You know you’re not a Nation of Laws when…
… Senator John McCain, former POW and presidential nominee, suggests keeping the methods of torture secure while not suggesting the prosecution of said torturers.
.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:26 pmThe release of these memos exposes the great lie of the previous admin which repeated, time after time, that the US doesnt torture.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:27 pmNo torture. Follow the Geneva Conventions. We have to deal with this, so it never happens again.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:30 pm“McCain Reacts To KSM Being Waterboarded 183 Times: ‘One Is Too Much. Waterboarding Is Torture’”
When will McCain backtrack and apologize to Rush? Any bets?
April 20th, 2009 at 12:31 pmCompare waterboarding to the events of 9/11, those who survived and those who didn’t. Those who perpertrated that event (and others) knew the consequences to their actions if caught. Those who experienced 9/11 first hand, had no idea, no choice, they just went about their normal lives not expecting the tragedy about to befall them. And do not think that US POWs, or other citizens captured on foreign soil are treated humanely. The terrorists who plot against us do not have rights as US Citizens and they do not care about OUR rights. If the government agencies feel they have sufficient evidence to interrogate a suspected terrorist, they should use every means necessary to obtain the information that will protect US CITIZENS from future attacks.
Torture is ugly. Like war, it’s inevitable. Would these men acknowledge your rights if the situation was reversed? We are ensuring that the men that would rather see democracy burn are properly dealt with. They are not beheaded, like Daniel Pearl.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:36 pmMr. McCain is just playing “Guess What I Forgot” with us, as soon as his Right Wing buddies start pummeling him over these remarks he will act as though he didnt understand what he was talking about and say something different.
This man is a calculating politician, and only once in awhile says something to make you think he’s coming around only to just go way over the deep end the next time you see him.
I have been to SERE school, and so as my Daughter as she is a pilot, and believe me waterboarding is no joke.
RIP
April 20th, 2009 at 12:37 pmSGT Stephen R. Sherman
C CO 1-5 IN (STRYKER)
KIA 3 Feb 2005
Mosul, Iraq
I have been to SERE school, and so HAS my Daughter as she is a pilot, and believe me waterboarding is no joke.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:38 pmWrong.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:40 pmDid his daughter Meghan the so called “progressive republicant, write the Detainee Treatment Act?
Isn’t ironic how the republicant’s say releasing the memos was wrong and yet they still advocate the use of torture?
The link below is a interactive world map of Al-Qaida’s 15 year romp around the world trying to destroy the US very interesting.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27071403
April 20th, 2009 at 12:41 pmWags, kindly respond to my entire statement instead of picking and choosing which portions you want to make clever one-liners about. I’d rather have terrorist masterminds waterboarded than more Daniel Pearls beheaded, because we all know that these men would treat us humanely on foreign soil.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:41 pmWhile I disagree strongly with most of what Senator McCain says, I appreciate the clarity and honesty with which he addressed the question by stating:
“Waterboarding is torture, period.”
April 20th, 2009 at 12:42 pmSen. McCain, you can’t have it both ways.
You can’t say you are against America torturing people and then say that Americans shouldn’t know about America torturing people.
Your argument reeks of the all to typical Christian Values Republican hypocrisy the likes of which America has had more than its fill.
I also don’t hear any outrage from you Sen. McCain about being mocked for enduring torture from your parties Dear Leader, Rush Limbaugh.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:44 pmit’s inevitable.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:44 pm—
So either we have always done it and thus had our fingers crossed behind our backs when we signed treaties saying we wouldn’t or it isn’t really inevitable…
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Dear SwedishSkinJe,
Please name the redeeming quality to TORTURE?
… What makes it illegal in the first place?
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April 20th, 2009 at 12:46 pmCorrection:
killed thousands*
April 20th, 2009 at 12:47 pmWe should not entangle ourselves with more foreign treaties. Do you really think that these terrorists care about democracy and human rights? Could you look me in the eye and say that these men, who knowingly orchestrated the barbaric attacks that killed millions, would treat us humanely on their soul if the situation was reversed?
If they hold information that could potentially save more Daniel Pearls or New York firefighters, then a little torture means nothing. We aren’t killing entire families or publicly beating women. They know the consequences for their widespread murder and terrorism. They care little for human rights, and they forfeited theirs when they expressed their disdain for it.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:48 pmon their soil*
Still getting used to my new keyboard. Apologies.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:48 pmI am sure right-wingers’ heads are exploding after hearing this from John McCain, though I believe he has made similar statements about torture in the past. I appreciate his statements objecting to torture at this juncture in the public discussion. That said, I think McCain is wrong to object to releasing the memos and Obama is wrong to say he won’t investigate U.S. torturers. We are obligated to do so by the stipulations of the Geneva Convention treaty, which the U.S. has signed into law. So U.N. official Manfred Nowak has said.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:49 pmAnd yet the only person McCain castigates is President Obama for releasing the memos. No blame for anybody from the Bush administration who facilitated these acts.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:49 pmMax:
Do you think these men would treat us humanely?
Do you think, if released, they would repent and NOT orchestrate another 9/11, which would violate thousands of “human rights”?
Yeah. it’s an ugly reality, but that’s how intel gathering and terrorism prevention works. Don’t act like these men are warm, loving individuals that give a shit about democracy and human rights. They do not acknowledge such things.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:50 pmSwedishSkinJer it doesn’t bother you one wit that what was done was illegal? Or that it did not gain us any actionable intel? Or that OUR Government lied to us about it’s use? If waterboarding a man once did not work, why do it 6 times a day for a month? It has been admitted that the lion’s share of detainees did not act against the US but your opinion is to waterboard them all and sort it out later? Really? There several good reasons why practically none of the detainees have been charged with an actual crime. One being that no evidence exists to implicate them. Secondly, if the Gov’ts evidence was gleened through torture it is inadmissible in court. Explain to me why this was a good idea and please expound further as to why the evidence doesn’t at least warrant an investigation. I’ll wait but I doubt you will have a valid arguement…
April 20th, 2009 at 12:50 pmThis is a false choice. Your entire statement is built on that fallacy, so I feel no obligation to respond to it in its entirety.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:50 pmSwedishSkinJer
April 20th, 2009 at 12:51 pmI assume you are aware that no evidence seems to exist that torture works. It is just knee jerk reactionism… Please show me any study or real life events which show torture saves lives and exacts credible intel.
Thanks..
It’s now official, we are not a country of laws.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:51 pmHowever, we do have laws in place to keep the little people in line.
I feel the . . . last . . . little . . . bit of respect . . . slip . . ping . . . a . . . way . . .
And therefore we, as Americans, should not? Baloney.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:52 pmYour thoughts SwedishSkinJer
http://explore.georgetown.edu/news/?ID=20647
April 20th, 2009 at 12:53 pmSwedishSkinJer Says:
April 20th, 2009 at 12:36 pm
No. Torture is not inevitable.
Torture does not work. I don’t care how much you believe it MIGHT work. IT DOES NOT WORK.
You are a proponent of torture, and that means you are exactly like those terrorist who beheaded Daniel Pearl.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:53 pmSwedishSkinJer, most of us learned in kindergarten that two wrongs don’t make a right. Oh I forgot, you Republicans never learned the basics of a civilized society.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:53 pmSo your saying, basically, we should become them??
I think not.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:53 pmFalse choice.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:53 pmFalse dichotomy.
Doodlebug Shayne Says:
——————————————————————————–
“It’s unacceptable,” McCain said,
And yet the only person McCain castigates is President Obama for releasing the memos. No blame for anybody from the Bush administration who facilitated these acts.
Well said my friend, you beat me to it.
RIP
April 20th, 2009 at 12:54 pmSGT Stephen R. Sherman
C CO 1-5 IN (STRYKER)
KIA 3 Feb 2005
Mosul, Iraq
.
Dear SwedishSkinJer,
It would behove you to consider that the respect of Human Rights often looks best when practiced, NO?
Excusing Human Rights abuses by your own Government is inexcusable, for when any form of government that claims to be a champion of Human Rights they should be held to such lofty goals and not allowed to fall short, least they not be the champion they claim to be.
So SwedishSkinJer,
Please explain the redeeming quality to TORTURE?
… It’s lofty place in the championship of Human Rights abuses?
.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:54 pmSwedish SkinJer, do you forget that one of, if not the main reason we were given into going into Iraq was to FREE the oppressed??
April 20th, 2009 at 12:55 pmSwedishSkinjer = Travka63
April 20th, 2009 at 12:55 pmOh, and by the way, Daniel Pearl was a spy….for Israel.
.
SwedishSkinJer,
Ahhh…
… The complexities of morals.
Do as I say, not as I do…
… The complexities of hypocrisies.
Your choice is clear.
.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:57 pmSwedishSkinJer Says:
Compare waterboarding to the events of 9/11, those who survived and those who didn’t. Those who perpertrated that event (and others) knew the consequences to their actions if caught. Those who experienced 9/11 first hand, had no idea, no choice, they just went about their normal lives not expecting the tragedy about to befall them.
Why is this different than any other crime? The people who experience a mugging or a bank robbery firsthand also don’t expect a tragedy to befall them. The perpetrators of muggings and bank robberies and terrorist acts should be treated equally under the law.
And do not think that US POWs, or other citizens captured on foreign soil are treated humanely.
So? The United States does not have to sink to the lowest common denominator.
The terrorists who plot against us do not have rights as US Citizens and they do not care about OUR rights.
Wrong. They have rights as human beings, and one of these rights is a protection against torture. Whether they care about our rights is immaterial. They should be treated as criminal suspects, with all the rights and protections afforded to all criminal suspects.
If the government agencies feel they have sufficient evidence to interrogate a suspected terrorist, they should use every means necessary to obtain the information that will protect US CITIZENS from future attacks.
Torture is not a necessary means to obtain information. In fact, it’s not even a useful means to obtain information. All it does is break a suspect down into an infantile state of dependency – it does nothing to produce valuable intelligence.
Torture is ugly. Like war, it’s inevitable. Would these men acknowledge your rights if the situation was reversed? We are ensuring that the men that would rather see democracy burn are properly dealt with. They are not beheaded, like Daniel Pearl.
Neither torture nor war are inevitable. They are conscious decisions made by people in power. I doubt very much that these men we call “terrorists” would acknowledege my rights if I were captured by them, but that doesn’t bother me. There will always be angry people out there, there will always be fanatics out there whose ideology trumps the rule of law, and they will continue to carry out acts of terrorism against innocent people.
So?
They’re not going to destroy democracy, no matter how many Daniel Pearls they behead. They’re not going to present an existential threat to the United States. They at worst present a costly – and sometimes deadly – nuisance to the country as a whole, but that’s it.
What WILL cause democracy to burn, however, is the legitimization of acts such as torture by an allegedly “democratic” government. This is why torture cannot be tolerated. This is why those who ordered and carried out torture must be prosecuted.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:57 pmYou are so clueless on so many issues. How many women and children are dead in Iraq because of Bush’s little unnecessary excursion? Ad this torture to the mix and we look as bad as any despotic regime to the rest of the world.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:59 pmThanks Tired Of Fighting.
April 20th, 2009 at 1:02 pmSwedishSkinJer Says:
If they hold information that could potentially save more Daniel Pearls or New York firefighters, then a little torture means nothing. We aren’t killing entire families or publicly beating women. They know the consequences for their widespread murder and terrorism. They care little for human rights, and they forfeited theirs when they expressed their disdain for it.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
_______________
Actually, we are killing entire families when we bomb Afghan and Pakistani villages with unmanned drones, but that’s beside the point.
You seem to think that these terrorists are committing for the sake of committing crimes. This is not true. They are driven by an ideology of self-defense – to them, the West is bent on destroying THEIR human rights, THEIR freedom of worship, THEIR self-determination. So I’d wager that they do, in fact, care about human rights. They just put theirs before ours, just as we put our human rights before their human rights.
April 20th, 2009 at 1:03 pmSwedishforeskin: “Do you think these men would treat us humanely?”
That has absolutely nothing to do with it. The question is “Do we want to be regarded, in the world community, as a nation of laws and civil rights, or as hypocrits who condemn torture in third world countries, yet do it themselves.”
April 20th, 2009 at 1:04 pmAIO grasshopper Says:
SwedishSkinjer = Travka63
Oh, and by the way, Daniel Pearl was a spy….for Israel.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
____________
I don’t believe that. I do believe, however, that he was close to finding linkages between the ISI and al-Qa’ida that would’ve been embarassing for the U.S. and Pakistan, which is why he was rubbed out. Just a hunch, though.
April 20th, 2009 at 1:05 pmI’ll take mccains word on torture over hannity/rush/moron right wing pundits.
McCain was actually a decent republican before the wackos corrupted him.
April 20th, 2009 at 1:06 pm.
Dear SwedishSkinJer,
If, when making decisions based on what your enemy has done to you, you fall back to their actions as the base guideline, then it is they, you enemy, that is controlling your every move. They cay crawl through the mud and you ask, “How low?”
IF America is about Human Rights and not abuses, when did abusing people become about stopping abuse? See, Bin Laden’s mission accomplished, no?
When you resort to the low ground of these “terrorists” as your bench mark for your higher road to travel, you’re validating the “terrorist” methods as being legitimate. “See, terrorists torture people, too…”
.
April 20th, 2009 at 1:06 pmSwedishSkinJer Says:
Yeah. it’s an ugly reality, but that’s how intel gathering and terrorism prevention works. Don’t act like these men are warm, loving individuals that give a shit about democracy and human rights. They do not acknowledge such things.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
YOU are an advocate for torture. That means YOU don’t give a shit about democracy or human rights.
Why would you expect someone else to acknowledge something you fail to acknowledge?
April 20th, 2009 at 1:07 pmIF. Torture a person and they will tell you anything. They would tell you they came to earth in a UFO from the Pleiades if they thought it would stop the torture.
April 20th, 2009 at 1:09 pmJust shot off this email to jay.bybee@unlv.edu:
____
April 20th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
I just can’t stand McCain anymore. On every Obama issue he has to be either 100% against it or supports parts of it and opposes others. This is such obvious horsesheit politics designed for the GOP cause and for fundraising. He is not being sincere! The reason Obama has been so successful politically is because he rises above all the BS and keeps it real!
April 20th, 2009 at 1:12 pmNobody said that. What they are saying is that if we become them then we are no better than them. Barbarity doesnt defeat barbarity it just continues it. Its de-evolutionary.
Swede says if we all become inhumane who dont give a crap about human rights then we cannot defeat barbarity.
Thats so illogical. Its like saying we must become rapists to cure the problem of rape. We must become drug dealers to defeat the drug dealers. We must become what is unlawful
April 20th, 2009 at 1:13 pm——————————————————————————–
Doodlebug Shayne Says:
——————————————————————————–
Thanks Tired Of Fighting.
My pleasure, its good to see and read good points, made by good people.
RIP
April 20th, 2009 at 1:19 pmSGT Stephen R. Sherman
C CO 1-5 IN (STRYKER)
KIA 3 Feb 2005
Mosul, Iraq
Oh, well, that was actually a good response, and… OMG, it’s Joe Lieberman, again! Noooooooooooo!
April 20th, 2009 at 1:20 pmSo, what you want is for all three branches of government to be completed gutted and held accountable for their actions? How is that going to help?
Try reading your history books, and not the edited liberal crap that seem to get circulated in schools. America has committed huge atrocities in the past (slavery, Japanese concentration camps, political assassination, etc.) under every type of leader we have ever had. The precedent has been set and will continue on. And to be honest, you’re pushing the limits of what war crimes are.
Obama is showing the first signs of moderation with this decision, and it’s funny how it’s drawing so much ire from the hope and change crowd. By running every branch of the government into the ground with witch hunts and investigations, you’ll lose any ground we are making in the world.
April 20th, 2009 at 1:34 pmI guess John forgot the part where the torture worked. It worked on him AND Khaleid Sheick Mohammed. Sort of a two-fer.
April 20th, 2009 at 1:34 pmSomething tells me McCain will not be apologizing to Rush Limbaugh for disagreeing about torture.
April 20th, 2009 at 1:37 pmXisthrus, you need to find a better argument than “if we act like them we become them”. We ARE them when our teeth get kicked down our throat because that is all that will stop them. How do you stop a killer. Kill him, otherwise, he’ll do it again. Just ask Oprah, “if he hits you once, he’ll do it again”. I know you are afraid of bad men but our troopers aren’t. You go about your business and let them do theirs. That way, we can all continue to be the very best we can be.
April 20th, 2009 at 1:39 pmIt’s my understanding that the Obama Admnistration deserves neither credit nor blame for the release of the memos, which came out thanks to the ACLU.
If you feel like sending a check to the ACLU, feel free. :)
April 20th, 2009 at 1:41 pmSwedishSkinJer Says:
So, what you want is for all three branches of government to be completed gutted and held accountable for their actions? How is that going to help?
April 20th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
_____________
Yes. That’s what “accountability” means.
April 20th, 2009 at 1:41 pmdrew3rd Says:
I know you are afraid of bad men but our troopers aren’t. You go about your business and let them do theirs. That way, we can all continue to be the very best we can be.
April 20th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
______________
If our “troopers” are torturing, then they are not the best they can be.
April 20th, 2009 at 1:42 pmYou need to find a better argument than…wait, you didn’t actually make an argument other than ‘kill them before they kill us’. Which would be fine, if reality were a movie, instead of, you know, reality.
Torture is antithetical to American principles as well as morality, ethics and legality. The only justification is fear.
April 20th, 2009 at 1:43 pmCal Malenky Says:
Something tells me McCain will not be apologizing to Rush Limbaugh for disagreeing about torture.
I dont know Cal, Mr. Limbaugh has a 100% track record in getting his Rushpuppets to backpedal on whatever he wants them to. Lets see, I bet Mr. McCain talked to Mr. Limbaugh before or right after this afternoon. The proof will be in Mr. Limbaugh’s reaction today on his comdey show, I wont know what it is for my ears are allergig to BS.
RIP
April 20th, 2009 at 1:44 pmSGT Stephen R. Sherman
C CO 1-5 IN (STRYKER)
KIA 3 Feb 2005
Mosul, Iraq
can you imagine being such a coward that you let your fear convince you that torture is ok?
only pansy little right wing cowards think America is so weak that it can’t defeat terrorists without resorting to war and torture
why are you such a sissy, swede?
April 20th, 2009 at 1:45 pmAllergic-Damn, and right after this interview, see what happens when your typing and talking.
RIP
April 20th, 2009 at 1:46 pmSGT Stephen R. Sherman
C CO 1-5 IN (STRYKER)
KIA 3 Feb 2005
Mosul, Iraq
SwedishSkinJer Says:
April 20th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
You need to read about the Nuremberg trials, halfwit.
April 20th, 2009 at 1:47 pmraynman Says:
I wonder what McCain thinks of Rush and Rush’s defense of torture?
It would be worth getting him on the record on that so we could watch him apologize the next day. Makes for great liberal entertainment when they do that.
.
Joe Sixpack Says:
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed? Wasn’t he that big greasy character with that black, bristly hair all over his back in the photograph that showed his capture?
Actually it turns out they were accidentally holding Ron Jeremy.
.
SwedishSkinJer Says:
Compare waterboarding to the events of 9/11…
No.
.
SwedishSkinJer Says:
Torture is ugly. Like war, it’s inevitable.
No.
.
You know how Al-Qaeda justified their actions? By pointing fingers at others and saying “hey, those guys are doing bad things so that makes it OK for us to do bad things.” Y’all point your fingers at Al-Qaeda and say the same.
People who do bad things and are unrepentant, are bad people. That includes both Usama Bin-Laden and yourself. From any objective ethical perspective, you both are on the same side. I avoid joining y’all exactly by having moral standards which are not variable based on what the “other guy” did. This is a key founding principle of the United States of America as well. It is my intention that it remain so. And I will defend those standards from you as vigorously as I will defend them from Al-Qaeda. From here, I see little difference between you anyway.
April 20th, 2009 at 1:53 pmSwedishSkinJer Says:
So, what you want is for all three branches of government to be completed gutted and held accountable for their actions? How is that going to help?
Thanks for asking!
1. By drastically reducing, if not entirely eliminating, terrorist recruitment
2. By gaining the support of populations in the countries where terrorist networks operate
3. By strengthening the local political position of allied anti-terrorist governments
4. By making the case for American relevancy in world affairs into the future
5. By supporting the legal groundwork to prosecute rogue regimes who commit war crimes
6. By securing and defending out personal rights and liberties
7. By preventing the U.S.A. from becoming a mockery of itself
I could go on, but I think that’s sufficient for now.
.
SwedishSkinJer Says:
Try reading your history books, and not the edited liberal crap that seem to get circulated in schools. America has committed huge atrocities in the past (slavery, Japanese concentration camps, political assassination, etc.) under every type of leader we have ever had.
Either one is against those atrocities or they’re for them. If one is against them then they believe that America should stop doing such things. You do not. Therefore, you are pro-atrocity. I’m not much concerned with the opinions of the pro-atrocity lobby.
.
SwedishSkinJer Says:
Obama is showing the first signs of moderation with this decision, and it’s funny how it’s drawing so much ire from the hope and change crowd.
We don’t do the “goosestep” thing. Where we disagree with our guy, we’ll let him know. The alternative is fascism.
.
SwedishSkinJer Says:
By running every branch of the government into the ground with witch hunts and investigations, you’ll lose any ground we are making in the world.
Um, no. Also, they’re only “witch hunts” if defending an accused person is grounds for accusation. Again, you’re using terms without apparently knowing their definitions.
April 20th, 2009 at 2:00 pmAnyone comparing Bush to Hitler should really learn their history.
April 20th, 2009 at 2:02 pmI’m still in shock as the memos showed we kidnap and torture children. What kind of people torture children? Obama is right all the innocent people kidnapped and tortured were Foreigners none were Americans. Law Makers and some Americans feel it is no problem torturing others after kidnapping them while using the words ” to protect our country”. For 6 years Bush/Cheney were allowed to do this with no one saying a word. Now knowing some detainees were innocent didn’t matter to the USA. It’s the International World who should be the ones to charge the US President/Vice President with War Crimes and the memos are proof.
If any country had kidnapped innocent Americans and held them without charge the US would be all over it. If any country kidnapped American children the US would go to the UNited Nation to demand the safe return or else. Look at Roxana the Journalist charged with spying both Obama/Hillary are all over it. Yet the US held tortured people from other countries and even has some that their not releasing their names. Future Terrorist will use the Bush/Cheney Policy of Kidnap/Torture and what will America say then?
April 20th, 2009 at 2:10 pmSwedishSkinJer Says:
Anyone comparing Bush to Hitler should really learn their history.
April 20th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
Hitler wasn’t tried in Nuremberg, fcukwit — but torturers were.
Get back under your bridge, you ignorant piss-soaked troll.
April 20th, 2009 at 2:20 pmWHY IS OBAMA ADMINISTRATION MAKING THE SAME ARGUMENT TO IGNORE OUR LAWS THAT BUSH AND CHENEY MADE TO VIOLATE THEM?
It’s not “looking to the past” to ENFORCE the LAW. Since WHEN is NOT enforcing the law an acceptable option in AMERICA? It is “ignoring the law” to choose to ALLOW LAWBREAKERS TO GO UNPROSECUTED FOR THEIR CRIMES. Since WHEN is the POLITICAL ramifications of prosecution an acceptable or relevant argument?
WHERE does President Obama draw the line when it comes to IGNORING illegal acts? Is it EVERYONE in AMERICA who broke the law during Bush’s/Cheney’s reign; or is it ONLY those who were active participants in AIDING and or ABETTING Bush and Cheney? Since WHEN is someone who aids and abets a crime not subject to CRIMINAL prosecution?
The precedents that President Obama would set in failing to hold Bush administration appointees and or employees legally accountable for their illegal actions if FAR MORE DANGEROUS TO AMERICA’S FUTURE than whatever POLITICAL COST we might pay.
How can a Constitutional Law Professor advocate IGNORING the reasons that America was founded as a NATION OF LAWS instead of a NATION OF MEN?!
President Obama is WRONG to PREVENT the prescribed enforcement of our laws. In making the argument that “we have more pressing matters to consider”, he is making the SAME ARGUMENT to IGNORE our laws that the Bush administration made to VIOLATE them. The ends DO NOT justify the means!
April 20th, 2009 at 2:28 pmosage Says:
…..
How can a Constitutional Law Professor advocate IGNORING the reasons that America was founded as a NATION OF LAWS instead of a NATION OF MEN?!
President Obama is WRONG to PREVENT the prescribed enforcement of our laws. In making the argument that “we have more pressing matters to consider”, he is making the SAME ARGUMENT to IGNORE our laws that the Bush administration made to VIOLATE them. The ends DO NOT justify the means!
verywellsaid!
April 20th, 2009 at 3:07 pmThe idea that they are terrorists because we tortured them has really gotten stuck in a few heads, hey?
link
Guess I’ll start keeping links for this on my desktop. How tedious. It should be common knowledge by now.
April 20th, 2009 at 3:35 pmI love this. Republicans staying “on message” – which goes to show you where the party unity is. The republican plan to self-destruct is nearly complete!
April 20th, 2009 at 3:41 pmMcCain was hip dip with the Bush administration on this topic in 2005. While I don’t know what the Bushies shared, McCain probably got the deepest access. He cratered to the Bush redefinition of torture.
John’s sudden burst of courage is Cowardly Lion worthy.
April 20th, 2009 at 4:05 pmMcCain knows because he told the vietnamese everything he knew when they broke his arms.
April 20th, 2009 at 5:16 pmDidn’t McCain flat-out refuse to say whether waterboarding was torture, when repeatedly pressed to do so, during the campaign?
.
SwedishSkinJer Says:
Anyone comparing Bush to Hitler should really learn their history.
Yep:
1. Right wing guy gets elected
April 20th, 2009 at 11:28 pm2. Right wing guy uses current events to foment a culture of fear and anger
3. Right wing guy demonizes sectors of the population, turning people against each other
4. Right wing guy starts wars without any provocation (or manufactures an excuse)
5. Right wing guy authorizes agencies to conduct illegal war crimes and crimes against humanity
6. Right wing guy refuses to take accountibility for his actions
SwedishSkinJer Says:
We should not entangle ourselves with more foreign treaties. Do you really think that these terrorists care about democracy and human rights? Could you look me in the eye and say that these men, who knowingly orchestrated the barbaric attacks that killed millions, would treat us humanely on their soul if the situation was reversed?
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It isnt about what THEY would do. I expect MORE from American values than saying well we have joined the evil doers club but we arent as bad as they are. We didnt torture Nazis during WW2. We had the same excuse. The Nazis also didnt torture OUR men even though THEY had the same excuse. They could have just said hey we were saving German lives. They MIGHT have information that could save German lives. It is WRONG that is the bottom line. You do not defeat evil by becoming evil. The way we will defeat terrorists is to draw a bright line between us and them and saying which side of this line do YOU belong on not by BLURRING that line.
If they hold information that could potentially save more Daniel Pearls or New York firefighters, then a little torture means nothing. We aren’t killing entire families or publicly beating women. They know the consequences for their widespread murder and terrorism. They care little for human rights, and they forfeited theirs when they expressed their disdain for it.
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This would be a better argument had they been CONVICTED IN A COURT OF LAW as criminal terrorists and murderers. It would still be wrong but it would be more coherent. Also we havent ONLY tortured terrorists. We sent Maher Arar to Syria for 10 months of torture and didnt even CLAIM or BELIEVE he was a terrorist. We just thought he MIGHT know something about a terrorist. Syria released him after 10 months OVER THE OBJECTIONS of the Bush administration even though Syria told us he didnt know anything. Appolgies for torture make my skin crawl. It is evil it is wrong and if you dont KNOW that then you need the help of a mental health professional immediatly
April 21st, 2009 at 7:26 amIt is sad that some (like Sparta on the blogocrats – google us) still deny that any torture took place – trying to argue that there is no definitive definition of torture.
As an Aussie, I feel sad that the reputation of the US people have been dragged down by the Bush administration.
Hopefully – those responsible will be held accountable for their actions.
April 23rd, 2009 at 9:47 am