Comments on: Lieberman: Obama releasing OLC torture memos ‘helps our enemies.’ http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/ Thu, 26 Nov 2009 20:52:13 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: tedbohne http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/comment-page-3/#comment-5612350 tedbohne Thu, 23 Apr 2009 22:37:41 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/#comment-5612350 The DAMNABLE MISERY of all this nonsense is that before the Bush family saw to the placement of their mentally challenged son in the offices of power, we didn't have much to worry about GUERRILLA activities against the US. The US is guilty of committing TERRORISM against EVERY country in south and central America. Not to mention southeast asia, and many others. This government or cabal could ONLY EXIST IN THE PRESENCE OF STUPID PEOPLE. Intelligent people would have seen through these sick roaches in minutes. But not Americans. The lowest form of hominid life extant. Joe, or Jew sixpack, Jane dishwater and kids, no education, no ability to take care of their own production, and therefore attached to the tit of welfare. despite the fact these sorts of rif-raf count for only a small slice of the US budget, the stupidity they enjoy goes all the way to the top. There's nothing great or worth emulating about america. This country began with genocide against the people that "owned" the lands, and has never stopped stealing, lying and murdering since. As The President's preacher exclaimed and I TOTALLY AGREE: <strong>"GODDAMN AMERICA!"</strong><em></em> The DAMNABLE MISERY of all this nonsense is that before the Bush family saw to the placement of their mentally challenged son in the offices of power, we didn’t have much to worry about GUERRILLA activities against the US. The US is guilty of committing TERRORISM against EVERY country in south and central America. Not to mention southeast asia, and many others. This government or cabal could ONLY EXIST IN THE PRESENCE OF STUPID PEOPLE. Intelligent people would have seen through these sick roaches in minutes. But not Americans. The lowest form of hominid life extant. Joe, or Jew sixpack, Jane dishwater and kids, no education, no ability to take care of their own production, and therefore attached to the tit of welfare. despite the fact these sorts of rif-raf count for only a small slice of the US budget, the stupidity they enjoy goes all the way to the top. There’s nothing great or worth emulating about america. This country began with genocide against the people that “owned” the lands, and has never stopped stealing, lying and murdering since. As The President’s preacher exclaimed and I TOTALLY AGREE: “GODDAMN AMERICA!”

]]> By: tedbohne http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/comment-page-3/#comment-5612341 tedbohne Thu, 23 Apr 2009 22:23:40 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/#comment-5612341 Lieberman is a rabid jew. he should be killed. his kind since the beginning of jew history have always had trouble and tribulation as constant companions. With the behavior of the "jew state" since 1948, it isn't hard to understand. <strong>kill joe lieberman</strong><em> tedbohne</em> Lieberman is a rabid jew. he should be killed. his kind since the beginning of jew history have always had trouble and tribulation as constant companions. With the behavior of the “jew state” since 1948, it isn’t hard to understand. kill joe lieberman

tedbohne

]]> By: delafield http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/comment-page-3/#comment-5609227 delafield Wed, 22 Apr 2009 08:49:57 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/#comment-5609227 With freinds like Joe Liebeman, who needs enemies. With freinds like Joe Liebeman, who needs enemies.

]]> By: Robt http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/comment-page-3/#comment-5609208 Robt Wed, 22 Apr 2009 07:37:29 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/#comment-5609208 Joe L is the most rarest case of " Droopy-Dog Bi-Polarism". Joe L is the most rarest case of ” Droopy-Dog Bi-Polarism”.

]]> By: Ape-Man http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/comment-page-3/#comment-5609201 Ape-Man Wed, 22 Apr 2009 06:06:22 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/#comment-5609201 Lieberman = Arrested Development. He doesn't think things through when it's inconvenient. Releasing the OLC torture memos will help solve serious crimes. Lieberman needs to be reminded that torture has now officially ended in the US, so there are no torture secrets to keep anymore. This <em>nation of laws</em> thing is hard to get the hang of isn't it mr LIEberman? Lieberman = Arrested Development. He doesn’t think things through when it’s inconvenient. Releasing the OLC torture memos will help solve serious crimes. Lieberman needs to be reminded that torture has now officially ended in the US, so there are no torture secrets to keep anymore. This nation of laws thing is hard to get the hang of isn’t it mr LIEberman?

]]> By: bonsai pajamas http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/comment-page-3/#comment-5609156 bonsai pajamas Wed, 22 Apr 2009 04:45:35 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/#comment-5609156 I'm afraid Obama may be taking the let's get along thing a little too far. This insect, Lieberman, is one Obama should have squashed back in January. I’m afraid Obama may be taking the let’s get along thing a little too far. This insect, Lieberman, is one Obama should have squashed back in January.

]]> By: Xisithrus http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/comment-page-3/#comment-5609061 Xisithrus Wed, 22 Apr 2009 02:37:40 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/#comment-5609061 WE LEAD BY EXAMPLE OR WE DO NOT LEAD WE LEAD BY EXAMPLE OR WE DO NOT LEAD

]]> By: AlexLawyer http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/comment-page-3/#comment-5609057 AlexLawyer Wed, 22 Apr 2009 02:34:25 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/#comment-5609057 When Lieberman says "helps our enemies" he's referring to liberal political opponents, not terrorists. But I guess in his vacuous little mind, they're one and the same. When Lieberman says “helps our enemies” he’s referring to liberal political opponents, not terrorists. But I guess in his vacuous little mind, they’re one and the same.

]]> By: Xisithrus http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/comment-page-3/#comment-5609053 Xisithrus Wed, 22 Apr 2009 02:31:02 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/#comment-5609053 We lead by example or we do not lead at all We lead by example or we do not lead at all

]]> By: Xisithrus http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/comment-page-3/#comment-5609051 Xisithrus Wed, 22 Apr 2009 02:30:16 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/#comment-5609051 There can only be one of two reasons the President couldn't find a compelling reason to keep them secret: 1) He is simply inexperienced and naive and lacking any common sense Maybe he believes in transparency? 2) He did it intentionally with some political motive in mind. Your not freeing your mind What he did was wrong, plain and simple. Thats an opinion. Torture is not new in its methods therefore these memos mean nothing. Its spin. We lead thru example or we dont lead at all. There can only be one of two reasons the President couldn’t find a compelling reason to keep them secret:

1) He is simply inexperienced and naive and lacking any common sense
Maybe he believes in transparency?
2) He did it intentionally with some political motive in mind.
Your not freeing your mind

What he did was wrong, plain and simple.
Thats an opinion. Torture is not new in its methods therefore these memos mean nothing.

Its spin.

We lead thru example or we dont lead at all.

]]> By: flight http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/comment-page-3/#comment-5609035 flight Wed, 22 Apr 2009 02:07:14 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/#comment-5609035 LIEBERMAN: Well, I take a minority position on this. Most people think it's definitely torture. The truth is, it has mostly a psychological impact on people. It's a terrible thing to do. ... I want the president of the United States in a given circumstance where we believe somebody we've got in our control may have information that could help us stop an attack, an imminent attack on the United States like 9/11 or, god forbid, worse, we ought to be able to use something like waterboarding. ------------------------------------------------------------- What can you read into this? A hypothetical case is extrapolated to a ridiculous point. This policy has provided a sick group in our country satisfaction in extracting revenge on the Islamic terrorist movement. The Bush Administration had to provide the voter with a sense that "something was being done". The legacy of the Bush torture is frightening. Contrary to Lieberman, there is no room for justification. What the Bush Administration has done has severely tied the hands of the Presidents that follow. As a nation we will be less willing to extend the "benefit of the doubt" to the office of president, and this runs contrary to the basic argument Lieberman is trying to make. LIEBERMAN: Well, I take a minority position on this. Most people think it’s definitely torture. The truth is, it has mostly a psychological impact on people. It’s a terrible thing to do. … I want the president of the United States in a given circumstance where we believe somebody we’ve got in our control may have information that could help us stop an attack, an imminent attack on the United States like 9/11 or, god forbid, worse, we ought to be able to use something like waterboarding.

————————————————————-

What can you read into this? A hypothetical case is extrapolated to a ridiculous point. This policy has provided a sick group in our country satisfaction in extracting revenge on the Islamic terrorist movement. The Bush Administration had to provide the voter with a sense that “something was being done”.
The legacy of the Bush torture is frightening. Contrary to Lieberman, there is no room for justification.
What the Bush Administration has done has severely tied the hands of the Presidents that follow. As a nation we will be less willing to extend the “benefit of the doubt” to the office of president, and this runs contrary to the basic argument Lieberman is trying to make.

]]> By: Eugene atrax robustus Debs http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/comment-page-2/#comment-5609034 Eugene atrax robustus Debs Wed, 22 Apr 2009 02:06:24 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/#comment-5609034 Tim Vaculik Says: Your post is ignorant and so are YOU, plain and simple Tim Vaculik Says:

Your post is ignorant and so are YOU, plain and simple

]]> By: Eugene atrax robustus Debs http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/comment-page-2/#comment-5609031 Eugene atrax robustus Debs Wed, 22 Apr 2009 02:03:19 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/#comment-5609031 slippery Says: the good senator is right on this one. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. No he isnt. You two fascists just WISH the president were a King. slippery Says:

the good senator is right on this one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

No he isnt. You two fascists just WISH the president were a King.

]]> By: Ape-Man http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/comment-page-2/#comment-5609029 Ape-Man Wed, 22 Apr 2009 02:02:05 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/#comment-5609029 Isn't it funny how Cheeney, the man who most likely signed off on the acts of torture is being quoted <em>without reference to that fact</em> in the media. What's going on Wolf? What's the situation in The Situation Room when you can't ask the former vise president if he was the one that signed off on the bloody torturings?! Just ask the guy or give up jounalism. Isn’t it funny how Cheeney, the man who most likely signed off on the acts of torture is being quoted without reference to that fact in the media. What’s going on Wolf? What’s the situation in The Situation Room when you can’t ask the former vise president if he was the one that signed off on the bloody torturings?! Just ask the guy or give up jounalism.

]]> By: Tim Vaculik http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/comment-page-2/#comment-5609026 Tim Vaculik Wed, 22 Apr 2009 01:56:24 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/#comment-5609026 puppax, There can only be one of two reasons the President couldn't find a compelling reason to keep them secret: 1) He is simply inexperienced and naive and lacking any common sense or 2) He did it intentionally with some political motive in mind. What he did was wrong, plain and simple. puppax,

There can only be one of two reasons the President couldn’t find a compelling reason to keep them secret:

1) He is simply inexperienced and naive and lacking any common sense
or
2) He did it intentionally with some political motive in mind.

What he did was wrong, plain and simple.

]]> By: labman57 http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/comment-page-2/#comment-5609005 labman57 Wed, 22 Apr 2009 01:15:23 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/#comment-5609005 Let's see. According to the foreign policy hawks, torture works, but the CIA doesn't torture. But if they did, it would work and save lives. And lives were saved, but torture wasn't used. Huuuuuh? Furthermore, these same folks insist that the CIA interrogation documents are no big deal and are much to do about nothing, yet out of the other side of their mouths they claim that disclosure about interrogation techniques involving "torture" will jeopardize national security. How can these documents be both trivial and inconsequential and a threat to the nation at the same time? You cannot have it both ways. Let’s see. According to the foreign policy hawks, torture works, but the CIA doesn’t torture. But if they did, it would work and save lives. And lives were saved, but torture wasn’t used. Huuuuuh?

Furthermore, these same folks insist that the CIA interrogation documents are no big deal and are much to do about nothing, yet out of the other side of their mouths they claim that disclosure about interrogation techniques involving “torture” will jeopardize national security.

How can these documents be both trivial and inconsequential and a threat to the nation at the same time? You cannot have it both ways.

]]> By: Ape-Man http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/comment-page-2/#comment-5608996 Ape-Man Wed, 22 Apr 2009 00:54:13 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/#comment-5608996 Yes Levi, now we must get republicans to take this to heart. Then they can take measures to dissapear into the past. Yes Levi, now we must get republicans to take this to heart. Then they can take measures to dissapear into the past.

]]> By: Levi the Dungbeetle http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/comment-page-2/#comment-5608983 Levi the Dungbeetle Wed, 22 Apr 2009 00:39:52 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/#comment-5608983 32 slippery Says: <em> <blockquote> you're saying you know some terrorists that AREN'T mentally insane? </blockquote> </em> Some terrorists probably are insane, but the percentages of terrorists that are insane are about the same as in the population in general. There is no correlation between being a terrorist and a person’s sanity. This is one of the many logical fallacies the wingnuts push with their propaganda machine. Terrorists are just people that have no other means to fight. If we were in their position, we would use the same tactics are they are using. That's the crux of the fallacy. Terrorists aren't some kind of genetic mutant, they are people who are religious ideologues, and because of their extreme ignorance, they lash out with tactics we don't like. Republicans are much like the terrorists they like to point fingers at. Terrorists are religious fanatics and Republicans are religious fanatics. Terrorists use immoral tactics to advance their agenda, Republicans use immoral tactics to advance their agenda. Fortunately, Republicans haven't resorted to violence yet, but with their talk of secession, and their recruiting of militants, we can expect the Republicans to use more violent terrorist style tactics in the near future. 32 slippery Says:

you’re saying you know some terrorists that AREN’T mentally insane?

Some terrorists probably are insane, but the percentages of terrorists that are insane are about the same as in the population in general. There is no correlation between being a terrorist and a person’s sanity. This is one of the many logical fallacies the wingnuts push with their propaganda machine.

Terrorists are just people that have no other means to fight. If we were in their position, we would use the same tactics are they are using. That’s the crux of the fallacy. Terrorists aren’t some kind of genetic mutant, they are people who are religious ideologues, and because of their extreme ignorance, they lash out with tactics we don’t like.

Republicans are much like the terrorists they like to point fingers at. Terrorists are religious fanatics and Republicans are religious fanatics. Terrorists use immoral tactics to advance their agenda, Republicans use immoral tactics to advance their agenda.

Fortunately, Republicans haven’t resorted to violence yet, but with their talk of secession, and their recruiting of militants, we can expect the Republicans to use more violent terrorist style tactics in the near future.

]]> By: kasinca http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/comment-page-2/#comment-5608979 kasinca Wed, 22 Apr 2009 00:33:21 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/#comment-5608979 Disfuntional families continually repeat their sickness until someone steps up and admits that there is a problem to fix. The administration has brought to the forefront a problem within our agency that seems to be the result of some questionable legal advise. It is proper to investigate and prosecute those responsible to avoid that dysfunction to repeat itself. The rethugs are not bigger than the United States of America, no matter what their delusionary thoughts may tell them. Disfuntional families continually repeat their sickness until someone steps up and admits that there is a problem to fix. The administration has brought to the forefront a problem within our agency that seems to be the result of some questionable legal advise. It is proper to investigate and prosecute those responsible to avoid that dysfunction to repeat itself. The rethugs are not bigger than the United States of America, no matter what their delusionary thoughts may tell them.

]]> By: puppax http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/comment-page-2/#comment-5608974 puppax Wed, 22 Apr 2009 00:27:05 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/lieberman-waterboarding-memos/#comment-5608974 This quote really says it all: <blockquote>It wasn't necessary. It just helps our enemies. It doesn't really help us.</blockquote> Why is the requirement for telling the truth that the revelation somehow helps us? The test for secrecy versus openness is that there needs to be a compelling reason to keep it secret, <strong>not</strong> that there needs to be a compelling reason for truth. We should not be OK with our government keeping things secret just because they're uncomfortable. I was enormously gratified when Obama described the process by which he determined to release the memos. Failing to find a compelling reason to keep them classified, he did was required in response to the FOIA filing - he released them. This quote really says it all:

It wasn’t necessary. It just helps our enemies. It doesn’t really help us.

Why is the requirement for telling the truth that the revelation somehow helps us?

The test for secrecy versus openness is that there needs to be a compelling reason to keep it secret, not that there needs to be a compelling reason for truth.

We should not be OK with our government keeping things secret just because they’re uncomfortable. I was enormously gratified when Obama described the process by which he determined to release the memos. Failing to find a compelling reason to keep them classified, he did was required in response to the FOIA filing – he released them.

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