Obama: Holder Will Decide Whether To Prosecute Torture Authors, Supports Bipartisan Truth Commission
Obama: Holder Will Decide Whether To Prosecute Torture Authors, Supports Bipartisan Truth Commission
Recently, the White House has sent mixed signals about whether it supports investigations into the Bush administration officials who authored the torture policies.
On Sunday, White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel said that “those who devised the policies…should not be prosecuted.” Press Secretary Robert Gibbs admitted yesterday the White House was failing to hold anyone “accountable” for torture. However, today the New York Times’ Peter Baker and Scott Shane reported that aides to Obama “did not rule out legal sanctions for the Bush lawyers who developed the legal basis for the use of the techniques.”
In the Oval Office this afternoon, the AP’s Jennifer Loven put the question directly to Obama. He refused to rule out prosecutions of the Bush lawyers who created the legal underpinnings for torture, saying it was a question he would leave up to Attorney General Eric Holder:
OBAMA: The OLC memos that were released reflected in my view us losing our moral bearings. … For those who carried out some of these operations within the four corners of legal opinions or guidance that had been provided from the White House, I do not think it’s appropriate for them to be prosecuted. With respect to those who formulated those legal decisions, I would say that is going to be more of a decision for the Attorney General within the parameters of various laws, and I don’t want to prejudge that.
Obama also tacitly endorsed a bipartisan, Congressional commission to investigate Bush’s torture program. Watch it:
Obama is effectively putting the ball in Holder’s court. Recall, during his Senate confirmation hearing, Holder said that the President cannot “immunize” torture and must enforce the law in all cases:
LEAHY: Do you believe that the president of the United States has authority to exercise a commander-in-chief override and immunize acts of torture? I ask that because we did not get a satisfactory answer from Former Attorney General Gonzales on that.
HOLDER: Mr. Chairman, no one is above the law. The president has a constitutional obligation to faithfully execute the laws of the United States. There are obligations that we have as a result of treaties that we have signed — obligations, obviously, in the Constitution. Where Congress has passed a law, it is the obligation of the president, or the commander-in-chief, to follow those laws. [...]
If one looks at the various statutes that have been passed, it is my belief that the president does not have the power that you’ve indicated.
Holder told Katie Couric earlier this month that a special commission investigating torture is something that “Senator Leahy, the people in the Senate Judiciary Committee, the President will ultimately have to decide.” Leahy, Judiciary Committee senators, and Obama have made up their mind. Now, it is up to Holder to ensure that “no one is above the law.”
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If this administration refuses to prosecute, then I say it’s time for people to grab their pitchforks and take matters into their own hands.
April 21st, 2009 at 12:55 pmSo was this change in tone a respone to the public outcry over the release of the memos, or was it the plan all along?
April 21st, 2009 at 12:56 pmCFP,
April 21st, 2009 at 1:02 pmWhen and where?
Wow, our Constitutional law professor, aka President Obama, is going to allow, gasp, the Attorney General of the United States, Mr. Eric Holder, to do his job and follow the mandates of our Constitution and actually, consider, gasp, to investigate those Bush criminals who OKed thousands of acts of medieval torture? Breath-taking, the mind boggles at this prospect. Why do thousands of us have to scream bloody torture to get these officials to do their sworn duty?
April 21st, 2009 at 1:02 pmLet’s hope AG Holder is not under the impression that this would be some kind of ‘partisan’ or ‘divisive’ action.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:04 pmthe dancing begins.
he has a big agenda but this may be bigger if we are to survive as a moral nation.
it is sounding more and more like passing the buck.
being pres is not easy.
266 water boardings. we have lost our moral ground.
most americans could care less as long as it is a muslim being water boarded.
as I hear often from americans better to kill them over there then over here.
there is only one billion of them. lots of killing there.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:05 pmUp YOURS Cheney & Bush!!!!
President Obama is saying he is SO AGAINST prosecution (wink, wink), knowing he can’t stop the freight train of justice and outrage over the disgraceful and criminal actions of the Bush administration.
Brilliant.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:05 pmSo now Holder has no choice thanks to this buck passing, spineless move by Obama.
Eric,
You either prosecute or participate. Period.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:08 pmThe President is obligated by the law to investigate potential torture despite our troll’s whining. Sorry CFP if President Obama has been playing politics with your obviously delicate emotions but if evidence of crimes are apparent then there is no other recourse but to investigate. Keep up the posts though, they’re hilarious!
April 21st, 2009 at 1:08 pmOval12345678 aka James K. Sayre Says:
Why do thousands of us have to scream bloody torture to get these officials to do their sworn duty?
April 21st, 2009 at 1:02 pm
____________
Because that’s what democracy requires. We have to petition the government for redress of grievances.
It’ll be a nice change from the last eight years if the government actually redresses those grievances.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:08 pmthe slug cheeeney goaded him to this point, plain as day…
as terrifying as that is, it’s as obvious what needs done…
all the good gods and spirits and people are going to have to be called upon to protect and help the people who carry on the work…
thank you, mr. president…
i really really really didn’t give up on you…
thank you.
we gotcha.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:09 pmIt’s Holder’s decision. At least, it should be if we’re going to follow the Constitution. In theory, it’s great to talk about what Obama should do. But in practice this is about what Holder and Congress decide to do. All Obama can do is release information and get out of the way. Which is exactly what he’s doing.
http://www.pufferfishblog.com/
April 21st, 2009 at 1:10 pmYesterday you were looking forward, Mr. President, but today is looking better!
April 21st, 2009 at 1:10 pmBipartisan will never happened. The GOP will never go alongwith this, absolutely not, the party of no, no, no, no. But if Cheney keeps it up, I see a back door solution, which in my opinion is absolutely brilliant on the part of this administration.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:12 pmAll we are asking for is Investigations!
Once the investigations are complete then we can fight over what the outcome means. Then we’ll fight about what should be done.
The important thing is that all the information gets out & that the world sees we are taking care of our mistakes and attempting to hold responsible those who committed crimes.
As long as everything is above board this will wok itself out. It doesn’t have to be done NOW, like the Economy and the introduction of renewable power sources, but the investigation needs to be going on while we are fixing all the other broken things in this country…
April 21st, 2009 at 1:13 pmAlthough I am disappointed that President Obama chose to pass-the-buck on a matter as important as this, I am however more confident in A.G. Holder’s professional integrity with regard to upholding the rule of law than I am with Obama’s.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:13 pmAre we really returning to the rule of law now? It’s been so long, I actually had to remind myself that the President doesn’t technically have the power to offer anyone immunity from prosecution.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:13 pm#13 Danny Noonan,
You are wrong.
The President can state that he has instructed his AG to investigate and prosecute to the full extent of the law or he can pass…Obama passed!!!!!!
April 21st, 2009 at 1:14 pmHope Says:
“Bipartisan will never happened. The GOP will never go alongwith this, absolutely not, the party of no, no, no, no. But if Cheney keeps it up, I see a back door solution, which in my opinion is absolutely brilliant on the part of this administration.”
Hope, unfortunately you are right! George Bush could have walked up behind Obama at the inauguration and “popped a cap in his ass” on live TV and today the Republicans would be screaming that it was justified and there should be no charges.
When it comes to partisanship the Republicans have built a steel wall along their freeway – they would not vote for a Christ/Budda Democratic ticket.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:17 pmThank you Mr.President for ‘rethinking’ this mistake. Always remember: “NO MAN IS ABOVE THE LAW”, and you’ll be ok.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:21 pmAt this point this is a statement in the right direction, not a step. I want to see action. Bush tortured children damn it.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:21 pmLet’s keep all these investigations above (water) board…
April 21st, 2009 at 1:22 pmWhat is with you people attacking Obama for “passing the buck”? This is what is CONSTITUTIONALLY MANDATED. Holder is the one who makes the decision, not Obama. It never has been otherwise. Obama is just saying he’s willing to follow the Constitution. This should be praised.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:23 pmJust one swinging, that’s all I want. You don’t have to punish them all but it’s imperative that we send a message to the next cowboy who wants to wipe his ass with our Constitution.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:24 pmI agree with you. No personality is more important than principle.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:24 pmObama “did not rule out legal sanctions for the Bush lawyers who developed the legal basis for the use of the techniques.”
WTF…go after the lawyers? And what about those whom ordered the lawyers to do their bidding?
I highly doubt those perps will be held accountable in THIS country. Go Spain!
April 21st, 2009 at 1:32 pmI don’t understand why people think this wasn’t the game-plan from the beginning.
The AG’s office was always where the responsibility laid. Now we get the prosecutions we’re demanding and Obama gets to focus on his agenda without handing the Republicans enormous ammunition for fund raising and even more obstructionism.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:32 pmDear President Obama
Torture is a crime that was committed by the Bush Administration, if you let them off the hook does that make you an accomplice?
Waiting for you to do the right then, Loyal, Patriotic American Citizen.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:35 pmDirectly asked, directly answered. Obama is a constitutional scholar. He is putting the onus where it belongs – in the AG’s office. He is not obstructing a Congressional inquiry.
I don’t see the cause for a big uproar. The wheels of justice are big: they start slowly but once in motion, look out lawbreakers!
Don’t forget Holder is restarting DOJ from a standstill.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:41 pm.
TO DATE: Warrantless wiretapping and TORTURE are unpunishable.
.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:43 pmMajor change on the topic of investigations ?
April 21st, 2009 at 1:44 pmO has taken alot of heat in the last several days on this issue and as an elected official must be wondering if he isn’t killing his chances for a second term .
Eric Holder on the other hand could well take the heat while giving Obama cover and as he is an appointee…………. risks nothing .
………………. Brilliant !
Not very satisfying. Yesterday Obama was the decider, now he’s the buck passer.
Yup, not very impressed with Obama.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:50 pmBipartisan? “Half reasonable qualified people, and half committed psycopaths” is all that means.
Quite simply, Obama can only issue a pardon, or not. He can’t just tell Holder to back off. That would be committing the exact same crime that Holder would be investigating. And there ain’t no way in hell Obama’s going to issue a pardon for this stuff.
Seeing an independent DoJ at this point is like watching a dinosaur. You’re like, “yeah I know what it is in theory, but WTF is that odd thing?” Bush politicized so many government agencies that they were basically all operating as a single huge White House, rather than each pursuing their own job description, as specified by Congress.
.
chiroptera toasterhead Says:
So was this change in tone a respone to the public outcry over the release of the memos, or was it the plan all along?
I hope that what we say makes a difference. But then I also hope that Obama’s better than we give him credit for. So I’m good either way.
.
dixie blood Says:
The President can state that he has instructed his AG to investigate and prosecute to the full extent of the law or he can pass…Obama passed!!!!!!
In a real administration the AG doesn’t have to be told what to do by the President. Investigating and prosecuting crimes is his job, and it’s presumed that he’ll do that from the day he gets hired.
.
A Patriotic Anopheles Acting Says:
The President is obligated by the law to investigate potential torture despite our troll’s whining.
Actually the AG is the one who’s obligated to investigate. The President has a different job description.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:51 pmI was just following orders never worked for the guards in Nazi concentration camp and I didn’t personally push those people into a gas chamber never worked for the architects of Nazi policies .
April 21st, 2009 at 1:51 pmBut then they didn’t haver a degree in constitutional law !
I want everybody who knew about the torture and didn’t object to at least receive censure.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:55 pmObama’s been President 34 months and Holder AG for less than half that time. Maybe these two know what is legal and what steps will ensure the best success in obtaining convictions.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:56 pmHow well has “bipartisan” worked for you so far, Mr. President?
April 21st, 2009 at 1:57 pmTranslation: Bipartisan = “it will nerver happen”
The man is entitled to make mistakes and correct them. He’s doing that now. No one is perfect.
What he’s saying is the people who carried this out and were told it’s legal and had to be done won’t be prosecuted. Doesn’t excuse it but I hope at least they’ll get the idiots who authorized this.
April 21st, 2009 at 1:59 pmWhat Cheney is doing is trying to influence the jury pool for the potential prosecutions. Here is a guy who broke the law, discussing the benefits from breaking the law. He is admitting his guilt everytime he opens his mouth. With Obama leaving the decision about prosecution up to the Justice department, he sends the message that he will not politically interfere with justice, as the Bushwackers did. I saw the Fox story on Obamas announcement that justice department will make this decision. They put up the pictures of the three lawyers involved in the memo writing, they looked very much like mug shots. Fox failed to mention that one of them, Bybee is a now a federal judge.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:02 pm34 months? I must be Rip Van Dixie Blood…whaaa..haaapened?
April 21st, 2009 at 2:03 pmA lot of the people who are getting impatient with the President on these issues should understand they are expecting of him the same kind of leadership-by-fiat-and executive-order that we all resented as practiced by the Bush regime.
I want all these issues dealt with decisively, but I don’t want it done at the expense of making Obama another Bush.
The AG will look at the facts at hand, and the Law on the books, and make the appropriate decisions – that is exactly what we should expect.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:04 pmNot really. He’s been wrong until today based on US treaties and he’s now passing the buck to the AG. He can simply tell the AG to start the prosecutions and tell the people that this will be done. He is passing the buck.
Where is the clear, clarion call from Obama that all who are guilty will be brought to justice. Period.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:10 pmDixie Blood, sorry but that’s simply not the case. The president can’t order the prosecution of anyone. This is a basic fact.
Here’s Atrios talking about it today. This is exactly why Bush officials broke the law in pushing for the prosecutions of political enemies.
http://www.eschatonblog.com/2009/04/justice.html
April 21st, 2009 at 2:13 pmHopefully, any investigation will lead to prosecution.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:18 pmIf it’s a dog & pony show, this will be like Lord Nelson putting the telescope to his his blind eye and saying, I don’t see anything.
I did not say the president can “order the prosecution of anyone.”
He sets the tone and tenor for his administration. His tone and tenor so far has been lacking. Period.
Am I wrong again now? I didn’t think so.
Read my stuff and don’t put words in my mouth.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:30 pmA bi-partisan commission to look into the crimes of the Bush Administration is never going to happen. There’s no way that the Republicans will let it happen. Unless….they see that the only way they can hang onto their job is to go along with an investigation. So, it’s time to start calling, e-mailing or snail mailing your Republican Congresspeople to let them know that their re-election will hang on whether or not they participate in holding the Bush Crime Family accountable for their actions.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:32 pmchiroptera toasterhead Says:
So was this change in tone a respone to the public outcry over the release of the memos, or was it the plan all along?
I think it partly was in response to the public outcry. But, I think he released the memos to do just that. Get the public firmly behind prosecution. The last poll I read only had 42% of Americans behind prosecuting the Bush Crime Family. If President Obama is going to be able to be affective at his job, he’s going to have the public behind him on prosecution. Otherwise he will be starting WWIII with the Republicans and we can kiss health care and energy policies goodby. If he says he’s going to prosecute without the public having his back, the Republicans will double their efforts to obstruct everything that Obama tries to do.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:35 pmLeahy, Judiciary Committee senators, and Obama have made up their mind. Now, it is up to Holder to ensure that “no one is above the law.”
Sorry ThinkProgress but Obama has NOT made up his mind on holding torture advocates in the Bush White House accountable. He’s leaving the decision up to Eric Holder.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:36 pmDixie Blood, I read this to mean you thought Obama could order a prosecution:
It’s from Post #19 where you incorrectly called me out. Your words. Not mine.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:36 pmlokidog Says:
Up YOURS Cheney & Bush!!!!
President Obama is saying he is SO AGAINST prosecution (wink, wink), knowing he can’t stop the freight train of justice and outrage over the disgraceful and criminal actions of the Bush administration.
Brilliant.
I agree. It’s got to come from “we the people”. If it comes from the Obama Administration it’s going to be called partisan politics or a “witch hunt”.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:37 pmExcellent recommendation, Mr. Baggins.
These indictments, prosecutions, and convictions should occur because it is as the Law prescribes, and because a solid majority of We The People insist on it. Only then will the charges of “partisan witchhunt” and “reckless vendetta” be rendered impotent.
Remember, we’d also like to see this guy serve a second term -if we insist right now that he take a kamikaze run at the intelligence establishment, the chances of that second term diminish pretty damned rapidly.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:41 pmdixie blood Says:
Where is the clear, clarion call from Obama that all who are guilty will be brought to justice. Period.
Do you want to see this country come to a grinding, screeching halt? Because that is what will happen the day that President Obama declares war on the Bush Crime Family. You can kiss goodbye health care reform or energy reforms for the next two years if this were to happen. Without the American public firmly behind him on prosecution, Obama risks spending the next two years (until the 2010 election) fighting the Republicans tooth and nail.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:41 pmTombaker, great point. It’s a delicate balancing act. Obama can appear to be on a partisan hunt.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:42 pmlokidog sees the strategy – i notice others are too.
it’s hard to get used to political basketball, instead of the political football we are all so accustomed to now.
sure wish HST was around to see the game get changed this way.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:42 pmNevermind – scratch that last comment of mine; Obama did make up his mind, at least on “tacitly” supporting a “special commission” in Congress to look into Bush’s torture policies.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:42 pmThis is another of those logic black holes.
More of a decision for the Attorney General, President Obama doesn’t want to prejudge. (No one is asking him to do anything other than order an investigation.)
Holder said his priority was closing Guantanamo in the Katie Couric interview. He wasn’t interested in exploring torture.
Here’s where we stand based on public positions:
Boss hasn’t ordered, thus AG is not investigating, yet AG free to investigate.
That’s a ride to nowhere.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:44 pm#51 — Danny Noonan,
Those are my words and I stand by them. He cannot, in your words “order the prosecution of anyone.” Which means a specific person.
He can insist on the enforcement of law for all including the Botch klan. That’s not person specific. That’s what I’m calling for.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:44 pmThe President has control over the Executive Department, not over Congress. If he wants a real review, it would be done by his resources.
Obama doesn’t want an investigation. Sloughing it off to Congress, a group complicit in torture, is a joke.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:46 pmWasn’t one of the reasons for the invasion of Iraq that Saddam Hussein tortured people ?
Yet we need to look in our torture.
And in another article today on TP, we see that Iraqi militias are not only killing a class of people, but doing so in a particularly sadistic way.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:48 pmDefending justice and democracy is a bloody and sometimes deadly game. Ask our soldiers.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:49 pmThe public is behind him. What’s your point?
April 21st, 2009 at 2:54 pmBilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
You can kiss goodbye health care reform or energy reforms for the next two years if this were to happen. Without the American public firmly behind him on prosecution, Obama risks spending the next two years (until the 2010 election) fighting the Republicans tooth and nail.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:41 pm
_____________
There’s no statute of limitations on health care reform or energy policy. There is a statute of limitations on violations of federal law.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:56 pmI’ve been wondering that very thing all day! I’d like to believe it was planned all along, which does make sense as it keeps him from looking overly-partisan in the eyes of Rethugs, which is no easy feat. Releasing the memos first and acting as though he’s not too focused on looking to pursue prosecution offers a good way to do this, especially since the public would practically be screaming for blood after the seeing the number 183. However, it is possible he was wanting to test the waters to see if it would become an issue of public outrage.
Still, he’s been willing to show he’s not too concerned about Republican anger in some areas such as healthcare reform and economical policy. The fact that we still have Timothy Geithner should say something.
I honestly don’t believe he is trying to ‘pass the buck’ as some who have posted have said, but please know I respect so many of you and share your anger about this whole thing. I was so hopeful that Bushies would be held accountable for their actions when Obama was elected. I worked hard to make that happen and war crimes were one reason.
I guess after having worked so hard to get him office I want to keep faith for just a little while longer, but if people aren’t held to account for this I too will see the Obama presidency as a missed opportunity for justice itself.
April 21st, 2009 at 3:03 pmBilbo,
Isn’t “fighting the Republicans” in his job description?
When will the left start to fight back against the totalitarian, theocratic power grap that the RePugniScums “lock and load” for each and every day?????
April 21st, 2009 at 3:08 pmOkay, here’s the upshot on Obama: He could apply pressure (which would be both inappropriate and politically stupid). But Holder would have to order the investigation. It’s that simple.
What Obama’s doing now is legal, ethical and politically smart. He’s releasing info and letting the Justice Department do what it deems best. That’s how the process is and should work.
http://www.pufferfishblog.com/
April 21st, 2009 at 3:14 pmDanny,
Once again you are wrong. He was standing down from prosecutions just 2 day ago. Where have you been?
NOW he’s changed his mind. Please try to keep up, ok?
April 21st, 2009 at 3:30 pmI hope I am right, but I have a feeling that President Obama is putting all the cards on the table on what exactly happened, letting the stupid people like Cheney tell the truth in public to try and justify what they did, and let the DOJ loose. If he doesn’t punish those who broke the law and are guilty of WAR CRIMES, then he is no better than they are. I don’t care what anyone says, if someone follows out orders that are wrong they too are guilty. It’s called ethics. In the movie “A Few Good Men”, Nicholson’s character broke the rules for he felt doing the RIGHT thing, would be putting “LIVES IN DANGER”! The mentality of the GOP is just that. We must be strong, mean, kick ass and take numbers later. Don’t “ef” with us, don’t shake hands with our enemies, let’s make them scared and hope they don’t shoot or bomb us? It didn’t work with retard Bush and our reputation should and I hope, will be renewed around the world, as a nation that cares about other nations and protecting life, liberty and justice?
April 21st, 2009 at 3:37 pmchiroptera toasterhead
It was the plan all along Obama wanted congressional leaders in unison to call for impeachment and the possibility of prosecution. Let them do the investigation and I’m soooooo happy that this is going to happen.
April 21st, 2009 at 3:40 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
Just listening to this man flip-flop is torture enough. I’d rather have a face slap.
April 21st, 2009 at 3:43 pm————————————————————-
It was Obama’s plan all along. Didn’t you see Rush today for that face slap?
obama-biden2009
With all due respect, I agree with you and your not wrong. Obama did put all the cards on the table by releasing the memos and that took a lot of courage from a political standpoint.
It was Obama’s plan all along I really do believe to get the congressional leaders to pursue impeachment of Judge Bybee. But keep in mind Obama never said that he would not prosecute the framers of the memos which somehow got lost in translation.
I’m sooooooooo happy that this is beginning to start. And let’s not forget the public outcry for which I think also played a part in the whole shift as well. Notice that there has been limited talk from the republicant’s. That’s because there scared shytless right now and I’m glad.
April 21st, 2009 at 3:53 pmRush gave him both bags.
April 21st, 2009 at 3:56 pmNow when you say that Rush gave him bags…
PLEASE CLARIFY!
April 21st, 2009 at 4:07 pmbags under both eyes. teabags.
April 21st, 2009 at 4:11 pmBy the way, is the second t in your screen name silent?
April 21st, 2009 at 4:13 pmSounds French.
Rather suave actually…
;)
>.> Nobody seems to get my humor.
April 21st, 2009 at 4:15 pmI know the feeling…
April 21st, 2009 at 4:16 pmBastet
April 21st, 2009 at 4:20 pmGloria Berger [cnn] says this gives the republicans an ‘opening’ for something or other. I don’t think she knows that the republicans are permanently closed. The wolf has shed it’s sheeps clothing.
April 21st, 2009 at 4:23 pmThank you, dear Goddess.
I am illumined.
I also have solar panels on my roof, and thank you sincerely for powering this computer.
noseeum:
April 21st, 2009 at 4:29 pmhttp://www.doomedbugs.com/Bugs/Biting-Midge-Noseeums/
=O !!!! You are truly worthy of my blessings!
April 21st, 2009 at 4:36 pmObama… Holder… or who ever is in charge: Open your office window and listen to the people. They are not just a few… we are many. Overwhelmingly many! Can you hear?
April 21st, 2009 at 4:37 pm
=O !!!! You are truly worthy of my blessings!
(Beaming)
In other circles I am known as Raven…
April 21st, 2009 at 4:48 pmhttp://www.magma.ca/~jbremner/blog/months/RavenStealsSun.htm
Hey ElBruce, it’s good that you know what you’re talking about. You’re just about the only one around here who took the time to clearly elucidate the duties of the president and the attorney general.
For everyone else, please recall our basic government–it is good to have a separate DOJ which is not obligated to nod its head every time the president passes gas and say, “yes sir, very good.” It is technically Holder’s job to work on this problem, and the president, as a man who understands the constitution, is letting the appropriate people lead the way in this while he focuses on the other areas of governmental concern–like the economy and so forth. Also, let’s not forget that we can’t just charge like mad bulls into the ring and start flinging indictments everywhere. You have to build a case first. This is, by the very nature of law, going to take time folks.
April 21st, 2009 at 5:14 pmThe MSM is claiming Obama has had a sharp turn on torture prosecutions, but the only sharp turn has been in the retoric by the MSM. Silly MSM gets it wrong and blames Obama… The MSM is always at least a day late when it comes to the Democrats.
April 21st, 2009 at 6:04 pmI’ve been reading up on Iran/Contra lately, and various articles here and there on constitutional law and presidents.We have a long standing problem with presidential power, and congressional weakness. It is definitely the job of the Justice Department and Congress to prosecute presidents. In order to work toward restoring balance, I think it’s important not to expect the president to fix everything by working beyond the bounds of his role. He’s only the president.
One of the first things Bush W. did when he took office, was to prevent the release of information from his father’s presidency that was due to be declassified and made public. President Obama just released Top Secret documents from the last administration. We should give credit where credit is due.
April 21st, 2009 at 6:07 pmThe MSM keeps wondering if the next republican talking point will give them some kind of power or advantage over president Obama and the Democrats. Is that still a valid idea, with all that we know about what bush and the republicans did and are still doing? In what world?
April 21st, 2009 at 6:40 pmA lot of commenters here have a pretty strange idea of how the U.S. government is set up to work. Congress should probably investigate (if it can get it together to do so), the DOJ should investigate – and prosecute if it finds cause. I hope that happens. I really do not agree with those claiming that the President should order prosecutions though. Obama is not King. Maybe the last eight years have confused some about how our government properly functions. Would you want Bush to have been ordering prosecutions on his own? How about Nixon, or Palin? Let’s hold on to our nation.
April 21st, 2009 at 7:19 pmTake a look at this story. The number of people involved with Iran/Contra in the Bush II administration is phenomenal. They have experience manipulating hearings. Cheney is going to try to prove that torture was useful, that patriots would approve, blah, blah, blah.
Oliver North is a media personality who is popular with the right. Think about that.
link
The problems of presidents, the CIA, and secret wars goes way back. Nixon bombing Laos and Cambodia, for instance. Whatever comes of the torture issue, if we are to ever truly challenge the tradition of abuse that presidents and spies have been getting away with, we are going to have to stay in power until the chicken-hawk patriot bureaucratic fixtures (like Cheney and Rumsfeld) have been scoured out of power. Their primary weapon right now is the media that carries water for them.
April 21st, 2009 at 9:21 pmWe already knew from the campaign that Obama was the Olympic flip-flopping gold medalist. How will he resolve it? The old time-tested whitewash method. Appoint a spineless, unprincipled political hack to conduct an investigation with the a priori conclusion that prosecutions are unwarranted.
April 21st, 2009 at 10:12 pmdixie blood Says:
34 months? I must be Rip Van Dixie Blood…whaaa..haaapened?
Iraq is an independent, sovereign, stable secular state. The economy has blossomed from the post-Bush shellacking, and we’re well on our way to reducing the deficit. In fact, the most recent budget posted a surplus for the first time in almost ten years. The Republicans lost another five seats in ‘10, putting the Dems within 3 votes of a supermajority for everything. We have universal health care, and a vibrant “green” industry sector putting America to work. All the parties in the mid-East conflict are currently in talks, and it looks like they’re about to come to a peaceful agreement for the first time in history.
Also, everybody sh!ts rainbows now.
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wiley Says:
Take a look at this story. The number of people involved with Iran/Contra in the Bush II administration is phenomenal.
Also, Cheney and Rumsfeld worked for the Nixon administration. The same evil people, doing the same evil things, decade after decade – because we inevitably get soft and let them back in.
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AlexLawyer Says:
We already knew from the campaign that Obama was the Olympic flip-flopping gold medalist.
Sure, like the time he said he was against all forms of torture and then co-sponsored the Military Commissions Act, which purports to authorize torture (as not-defined by the President). Or when he said the “fundamentals of the economy are strong” and then had to reverse himself because the Republican-controlled market had just taken a big fat swan dive that morning? How about when he suspended his campaign to parachute into Washington to fix everything and then it turned out he had no plan? Or…
What?
Oops sorry, that was your guy.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:17 amDon’t mistake the MSM fip’flopping because they jump to conclusions, with the Administration flip’flopping. The MSM is almost clueless and three steps behind the president, because they’re still catering to all the republican retoric.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:19 amThe only acceptable answer is to APPOINT A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR.
A “911 Commission like” Truth Commission is a distraction and delaying tactic. Bush/Cheney would love a toothless and prolonged commission to insure that there is NO ACCOUNTABILITY.
President Obama.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:27 amSTOP TRYING TO PROTECT THESE PEOPLE!
You swore an oath.
Is the United States a nation committed to the rule of law or not?
If you deny accountability, you insure repetition.
You KNOW this.
Do the right thing.
I think the Judge should be given a medal.. what the hell are you thinking that we should impeach an American for doing what is needed to SAVE American lives. If it were up to me I would have shot out their knee caps, pulled their teeth and other more horrific things if I thought it would save even one American.
Get it together and get off this bank wagon. You look STUPID!!!!
It is evident that no-one remembers the American’s leaping to their deaths holding hand from the Towers…Tell them what torture is.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:17 pm