Clinton on Cheney: ‘It won’t surprise you that I don’t consider him a particularly reliable source.’
Clinton on Cheney: ‘It won’t surprise you that I don’t consider him a particularly reliable source.’
In testimony today before the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton told Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA) that she did not view former Vice President Cheney as a “particularly reliable source” on matters related to detainee torture and mistreatment. Rohrabacher had asked Clinton whether she supported the release of documents that Cheney recently claimed documented the “successes” that came out of the Bush administration’s torture program:
ROHRABACHER: This goes to the heart of as far as I can see of whether or not we can expect to have transparency and openness in this administration? Or are you going to just refuse to answer the question? … What will be your recommendation?
CLINTON: I am not going to share that with you because I don’t know any facts that support what you’re describing.
Watch it:
Perhaps Rohrabacher is hoping that the documents Cheney was describing will vindicate his June 2008 claim that the detainee mistreatment amounted to nothing more than “hazing pranks from some fraternity.”
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
This guy is a GOP wackjob. He is almost as bad as Inhofe and Bachmann.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:08 pmIn the Clinton years, the “conservative” outrage was about stains on a blue dress and Gore’s campaign calls from the White House. Now, we have devolved under Bush to defense of torture, lying us into war, and spying on Americans. Rohrabacher and all Republicans better be spending their time trying to put space between themselves and the Bush White House, not defending their record.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:10 pmSo far, Cheney has NOT asked for the release of the documents showing TORTURE worked . .
The White House and the C.I.A. HAVE NOT received any request by Cheney for the release of these documents, as he told Hannity he HAD already requested . .
How do we know when Grandpa LIES?
Yup, the lips move . .
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:12 pmCLINTON: I am not going to share that with you because I don’t know any facts that support what you’re describing.
I like the way Secretary of State Hillary Clinton called Rohrabacher’s butt out in the street.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:14 pmNot to overly disparage 42, but STFU, Mr Former POTUS. When what you say becomes relevant again, we’ll let you know. Yeah, we get that Cheney is a present and former sumbag. Where were you when it mattered?
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:14 pmDana is a he, not a she.
He believes the U.S. and Japan were allies during WWII. That explains waterboarding.
No one knows, much less cares about history. It’s a big spin game.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:14 pmWhat is particularly mendacious about Cheney’s calls for the release of these alleged documents is that he could have used his own authority to release them while he was still in office. To call for their release now is disingenuous at best and a political dirty trick at worst. Imagine, for example, that these documents don’t exist. He places the Obama administration in the position of apparently refusing to release a document which simply never existed. This is just the kind of dirty trick that Cheney and Rove would pull in order to embarrass the current administration.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:15 pmLet me get this straight: releasing memos describing the use of torture as a means of intelligence gathering is detrimental to national security but releasing memos documenting actual intelligence allegedly gathered by said process is necessary? What color is the sky on The Dick’s planet?
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:16 pmMy apologies on the he/she thing. I misread the sentence. Obviously embarrassed!
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:16 pmRepublicans are clinging to the desperate hope that some evidence will come out that torture works. Whether or not actionable intel can be obtained is NOT the issue Mr. Rohrabacher. The issue is that war crimes were willingly devised, documented, approved, committed and admitted with the expressed approval of both George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. I could shoot my neighbor’s dog for shitting on my lawn and then claim that it worked. Does that make it legal?
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:16 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
It won’t surprise you to learn that I don’t consider Mrs. Whitewater Clinton to be a very reliable source.
As compared to that lying slickster, Dick Cheney, huh, pal?
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:16 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
It won’t surprise you to learn that I don’t consider Mrs. Whitewater Clinton to be a very reliable source.
that didn’t take long…A Clinton did it non-sequeter in 4 posts. There’s no fool like an old school.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:19 pmWhat’s wrong with having the complete story? Openness, you know?
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:20 pmThe problem is that wingnuts are congenitally incapable of comprehending certain terms or concepts. Rorbacher only heard “I am not going to share that with you because I don’t know blah blah blah what you’re describing.” So he probably thinks she’s dumb.
.
Above the Clouds Says:
In the Clinton years, the “conservative” outrage was about stains on a blue dress…
As sad as it is to be in this position, I much prefer our outrage to theirs.
.
ConservativeForProgress Says:
It won’t surprise you to learn that I don’t consider Mrs. Whitewater Clinton to be a very reliable source.
Oh yeah, all that horrible Whitewater stuff they did. Jeez, that uncovered so many documented crimes by the Clintons that… No wait, I must have been thinking of something else. There were zero documented crimes by the Clintons related to Whitewater. So you bringing that up to disparage her credibility totally zinged us! Way to go, opposite-worlder!
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:22 pmI WISH TP WOULD POST THE PICTURES OF THESE WAR CRIMINALS
LET’S START GETTING A BUSH WAR CRIMINAL DECK OF CARDS GOING.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:22 pmThe trolls find Hillary Clinton disreputable and unreliable. Funny, I seem to remember a six year, taxpayer funded multi million dollar witch hunt against the Clintons. Was there a crime proven that I’m not aware of? It seems these trolls know more than Ken Starr and the entire GOP because I don’t recall any files being charged and it wasn’t due to not searching long and hard enough that’s for sure. Dick Cheney on the other hand is a traitorous crininal war profiteer who wouldn’t know the truth if it bit his fat @ss and died from toxic poisoning.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:22 pmjay Says:
“What’s wrong with having the complete story? Openness, you know?”
Would releasing secret documents somehow magically change the fact that torturing detainees is an International war crime and against American law? What would it matter?
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:24 pmjay Says:
What’s wrong with having the complete story? Openness, you know?
It’s just possible that the Obama administration is trying to salvage what legal cases may still be made against some of the detainees in order to give them due process through the justice system. Which would mean that specific evidence would need to remain confidential until such time as an indictment was prepared.
You know, rule of law, checks and balances, blah blah blah.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:25 pmAdd one more Republican to the de-election hit list!
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:26 pmI can think of one. Lying to Congress. Impeachment by the House of representatives. You should also do some research into Whitewater and Hilary’s legal involvement. OBTW you might want to look into the FBI files that Hillary never saw but who’s fingerprints were all over those files.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:27 pmA Patriotic Anopheles Acting Says:
The trolls find Hillary Clinton disreputable and unreliable. Funny, I seem to remember a six year, taxpayer funded multi million dollar witch hunt against the Clintons. Was there a crime proven that I’m not aware of? It seems these trolls know more than Ken Starr and the entire GOP because I don’t recall any files being charged and it wasn’t due to not searching long and hard enough that’s for sure.
Seriously, she’s like the most “vetted” individual on the planet.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:27 pmVetted by who you might ask.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:28 pmCop-out!
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:30 pmonly cowards support torture
I personally believe America is strong enough to defeat terrorists without resorting to war and torture
why do right wingers think America is soooo weak? is it just a reflection of their personal cowardice? I think it is
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:30 pmWhat a rethuglican fool! What was Rorhabacher trying to prove with his line of questioning? I think Clinton made him look rather ridiculous. Cheney is a sadistic liar and any memos he’s requesting the release of will continue to confirm this fact.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:30 pmo look, there’s jay, another little right wing coward that is soooo scared he wants to give up everything that makes America great
what a pansy little cowardly b!tch this jay is
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:31 pmIf Cheney’s alleged documents really existed, he would have selectively declassified them himself years ago. It’s a bluff.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:32 pmShould all those involved be investigated? If a person knows about the tactics that will be used, should they be restricted to National Security laws if they know the laws are to be broken?
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:32 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
It won’t surprise you to learn that I don’t consider Mrs. Whitewater Clinton to be a very reliable source.
Who cares what you repeat. Clinton just shot down another teabag rep liar. She is great.
Who does buckshot think he is? He is out of office and who is he to ask for records to be released? He’s isn’t in the Obama administration…THANK GOD.
buckshot is lying because he didn’t request shit.
What about all the subpoenas he wouldn’t answer and secret papers this fool release.
repugs love to throw President Obama’s transparency around as if they had transparency in the chimpy admin. repugs don’t know anything about transparency then and they sure don’t know about it now.
repugs STFU about downing President Obama about anything. You fools got us into this mess in the FIRST PLACE.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:33 pm…and that’s an UNDERSTATEMENT, Hillary!
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:34 pmAmericans listened and believed Bush/Cheney for 8 years. No one likes to be seen as being tricked for 8 years. Many would rather have Bush/Cheney continue the mission with lies and stealing then to know the truth. Some Americans still believe Iraq has WMD’s and Mushroom Cloud. Hillary has to call it as it is and attacking her wont change the facts. Documents and memos prove Bush/Cheney lied we do Torture even innocent people and children. Like it or not it’s fact. Now for those who read US History and remember we sentenced Japanese soldiers to 15 years of hard labor for torturing our POW soldiers. We the United States of America declared Torture as a crime and convicted those who applied it to our Military. Now we’re not sure if torturing innocent people and children is really illegal why? Because we have now do it and of course we are the World Leaders of Human Rights. As Bush often spoke of the Worlds Axis of Evil little did we know he was really talking about the United States of America.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:34 pmWhat’s wrong with getting the whole story if openness is your goal?
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:35 pmawww, puddin, aren’t you cute?
anyone that is such a coward that they support torture should be investigated, including you
you’re a typical republican coward
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:35 pmOf course Cheney is not reliable, he is a known liar and a WAR CRIMINAL.
Some advice for Clinton, when a GOP criminal asks a question here should be you stock answer…
…”go fcuk yourself, G O Pig.”
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:35 pmawww, look, jay the coward thinks Cheney is telling the truth
i guess he’s gullible in addition to being a pansy
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:36 pmAnswer the question.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:36 pmalready did, you illiterate little pansy coward
try reading
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:37 pmThe dim-witted Rohrabacher is no match for the lady Clinton who has been deflecting insects like him for years.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:38 pmOBTW dumbass, those FBI files were on people who worked in or for the White House. You might want to check some facts before you make a fool of yourself.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:38 pmApril 22nd, 2009 at 1:39 pm
Answer the question.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:39 pmlook at the pansy little right wingers, defending torture out of fear
so glad you weaklings were voted out
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:40 pmyour question was answered, you illiterate stooge
grow up
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:40 pmWhat’s wrong with you, dope? Why weren’t you calling for Dick Cheney to be open? Fool.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:41 pmSeems to me, that someone that authorized the revelation of a covert CIA agent simply for revenge against her husband might not be the most reliable person to come to for matters of national security….
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:42 pmjay Says: BLAHAHAHA NOTHING!
Meaningless banter from another troll.
You have nothing. The Clintons were NOT charged with any crimes. Why is it that trolls always try to bring up the Clintons when the Bush Administration is about to be charged with the most HEINOUS crimes in the history of American Government! There’s no comparison for what Bush and Cheney have done!
We don’t need to see anymore memos to know that the Bush Administration allowed torture. Bush lied, Cheney lied – PERIOD! Nuff said! Nuff revealed!
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:42 pmAren’t you embarrassed to have an oxymoron for a name?
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:42 pmshoeless Chilopoda Says:
I’m sure you really think that. It must be dark inside a closed mind. She swore that she didn’t see any FBI files, yet her fingerprints were all over the files. That’s called lying. She was the first lady and had no legal right to have any FBI files.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:42 pmFlag the idiot troll.
Jeebus, trolls are totally scared of girls.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:44 pmJay, you knucklehead, FBI files are collected on everyone who works for the White House. You are an idiot.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:44 pmjay Says:
What’s wrong with getting the whole story if openness is your goal?
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:35 pm
___________
We are getting the whole story. If there was credible information that had been obtained through torture, it would’ve been released long ago. The reason why the Obama administration isn’t releasing these documents is that they DON’T EXIST. You can’t release a document that doesn’t exist.
If you don’t believe me, feel free to submit a request to the CIA: http://www.foia.cia.gov/
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:44 pmpoor little jay, still quivering from fear after being terrorized by cheney for 8 years
what a whining little pansy
terrorism only works on the terrified
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:45 pmjay Says:
I can think of one. Lying to Congress. Impeachment by the House of representatives. You should also do some research into Whitewater and Hilary’s legal involvement. OBTW you might want to look into the FBI files that Hillary never saw but who’s fingerprints were all over those files.
Hey, jaybird. Quit being a dumbass. If the Rethuglicans had ANYTHING on Whitewater, they would have released it years ago to save face for letting Ken Starr waste $40 million of taxpayer money on investigations. And in the end, the only thing he could get Clinton on was because he was too ashamed to admit to the world that he had an affair.
You ever wonder what we could find out about that town drunk that just left office if we spent half that much looking into his DUI’s and how he dodged military service during a time of war? No, didn’t think so.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:45 pmThe era of openness. Lets have the whole story.
I’ll ask you the same question.
If a person knew what tactics were to be used and laws were to be broken, then should they be bound by the Secrecy Act?
A simple question.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:45 pmtrolls are scared of everything
that’s what makes them right wingers
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:46 pmI think you should go and drink another “sixpack” and then answer the question.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:47 pmYou answer this question, you pathetic authoritarian groveler. They were Dick Cheney’s files. Why weren’t you crying for him to open them?
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:47 pmwe answered jay’s question and yet he still posts pretending we didn’t, ignoring the fact that people can simply scroll up and see where it was answered
of course, he wasn’t asking to be educated, he is just trolling like a good little pansy right wing coward does
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:48 pmWait and see, the documents ‘ol dead-eye produces will not be the same documents he requested from the CIA.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:48 pmHe’s had plenty of practice with the Iraq intel.
?
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:48 pmwhat’s with the story that david shuster reported last night,
that cheeeney wants these memos for his upcoming book?
?
Have you noticed the same old hum drum BS from the trolls….but, but, but Clinton did it. Give it a rest.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:49 pmCORRECTION:
What about all the subpoenas he wouldn’t answer and secret papers this fool won’t release.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:50 pmAnswer the question. It’s a simple one for simple minds such as yours. It is specific but easy to answer. A yes or no will do.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:50 pmHey! I get it now. jay can’t read. He needs to ask the person who is typing for him to go back up the thread and read the answer to him.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:50 pma simple question from a simple mind that was simply answered
not my fault if you are too ignorant or cowardly to read the answer
do you really think people can’t just scroll up and see where it was answered? are you really THAT stupid?
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:51 pmMy question is specific. It hasn’t been answered by any of you here.
Answer the question.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:53 pmok, since jay is too ignorant to know how to scroll up, I’ll repost the answer he keeps lying about not getting:
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:54 pm
What was the question again?
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:55 pmgee, jay, why do you think America is so weak?
ANSWER THE QUESTION!!!
lol
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:55 pmROHRABACHER
Definitely a FOX GOP REP, here in California. What part of Cheney not being a reliable source, don’t you understand? Because this CRIMINAL (Cheney) went on with Fox’s INSANITY and stated there were documents to show that WAR CRIMES worked makes it fact? They had the best intelligence to go to war and continue this claim through their administration? All of them should HANG FROM THE HIGHEST TREE. They are not what America stands for and I hope they all go to jail.
Question for CHENEY, INSANITY & ROHRA(TORTURE)BACKER. If these “enhancement” techniques worked so well which did that one detainee go through 183+ waterboardings? If it was so useful to torture, why so many effin times?
America better stand strong and not let ANY of these scumbags get away with it.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:55 pmWell, let’s see. He is having a hissy fit because Hillary Clinton isn’t taking responsibility for finding and releasing Dick Cheney’s mysterious secret files. Yet, he could care less whether or not Dick Cheney himself releases those files.
Yes, I’d say he really is that stupid.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:55 pmgood point
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:56 pmI’m asking for Obie to be open by releasing all the files.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:56 pmEverytime Cheney gets on the air and supports torture he admits his criminal behavior.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:57 pmImagine how differently it would have gone down if a mythical Democratic President had been caught using torture.
There would have been no phony debate about whether torture was torture. They would have started prosecutions immediately.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:57 pmjay Says:
I’d answer your question if it made sense.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:57 pmTake off that tinfoil hat.
It’s been public knowledge for years that the Bush Administration allowed torture. When Obama released the torture memos it just confirmed what we already knew.
Answer my question. Why aren’t you pitching a fit about Dick Cheney refusing to open his own files?
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:57 pmObie? but he already told you that these are not the droids you are looking for
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:57 pmFrom Nov. 2005:
Admiral Stansfield Turner, a former CIA director, accused US Vice President Dick Cheney of overseeing policies of torturing terrorist suspects and damaging the nation’s reputation, in a television interview.
“We have crossed the line into dangerous territory,” Turner, who headed the Central Intelligence Agency in the 1970s, said on ITV news.
“I am embarrassed that the USA has a vice president for torture. I think it is just reprehensible. He (Cheney) advocates torture, what else is it? I just don’t understand how a man in that position can take such a stance.”
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:58 pmPerhaps Rep Rohrbach would like to see his daughters and or wife ‘hazed’ and then tell us what he ‘thinks’.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:58 pmhttp://www.democraticunderground.com/top10/04/158_rohrabacher.jpg
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:58 pmIf a Representative had information on what tactics were going to be used and later were used, should they be bound by the Secrecy act if they knew the law was being broken?
Simple question.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:59 pmjay Says:
I think you should go and drink another “sixpack” and then answer the question.
My response was not to your question. It was to the same old, tired, tactics you use. What is it with Republican thinking that every time you run out of arguement or foundation, you attack the Clintons. Grow up.
The question you ask has been answered, pal. Read the posts here. It has been asked and answered, but you can’t see it because of all the blogging in the way.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:59 pmI read the posts here but my question is specific.
Answer the question.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:00 pmjay is just a pansy that is looking for justification of his fear
he has been terrorized by dick cheney into supporting torture because he believes America is weak
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:00 pmshoeless Chilopoda Says:
——————————————————————————–
Answer the question. Why aren’t you pitching a fit about Dick Cheney refusing to open his own files?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:01 pmanswer the question, jay, you ignorant pansy
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:01 pmThe troll doesn’t like the answer to his question, hence it has not been answered.
:-D
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:02 pmjay Says:
If a Representative had information on what tactics were going to be used and later were used, should they be bound by the Secrecy act if they knew the law was being broken?
Simple question.
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:59 pm
___________
No. In an ideal world, the Secrecy Act would allow for whistleblowing when crimes are being committed behind the veil of national security.
However, this is not an ideal world, and our Representatives are bound by the law as written. So yes, until the law is changed they should be bound by the Secrecy Act.
I answered your question. Now will you please shut up about it?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:02 pmA person who falls on name calling instantly loses the argument.
Why won’t any of you answer the question?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:02 pmAll of this finger pointing and no action reminds me of why I love the two party system.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:02 pmThe people that we elected to bring closure to the last administrations transgressions are not acting, they are grandstanding (Pelosi etc.).
Dick Cheney will receive another heart from an accidental motorcycle fatality and resume living in Dubai with Ken Lay and the bankster robbers.
look at jay, pretending his question hasn’t been answered
i guess we can add the scroll wheel to the ever-growing list of things that make jay pee his pants in fear
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:03 pmWhat’s wrong Tommy, is ranting all you can do?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:03 pmjay Says:
Why won’t any of you answer the question?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:02 pm
__________
I just did. Now shut up about it.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:03 pmNever been the biggest fan of Clinton but Rohrabacher just got served. What a moron, “oh but isn’t Cheney the mac daddy whine whine whine”
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:04 pmthere is no argument
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:04 pmyour question was answered
you are a coward, as demonstrated by your need to be protected by torture
no name calling, just the facts
Jay, did said representative take an oath to be faithful to the Constitution? If so, would that oath be in conflict with the Secrecy Act? If so, is there an ombudsman’s office where whistleblowers can report criminal malfeasance without repercussion?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:04 pmANSWER THESE QUESTIONS!
You didn’t mind Dick Cheney keeping his files secret when he was in office. Now you are demanding that Hillary Clinton find them and open them. What changed for you jay? When exactly did you realize that you had to know what was in those files that you cared so little about before?
Answer the question.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:04 pmP.S. Jay start your own troll webpage. I am sick of your bickering. This is like a scene from Monty Python’s “Do you want to have an argument.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:04 pmstill can’t answer the question I see
you’re just another ignorant coward and you keep proving it
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:05 pmjay Says:
You should also do some research into Whitewater and Hilary’s legal involvement. OBTW you might want to look into the FBI files that Hillary never saw but who’s fingerprints were all over those files.
We were talking about Whitewater. If I’m not mistaken, lots of research was done into that. I don’t recall anybody finding either of the Clintons involved in any illegal activity whatsoever in relation to any of those investigations. Maybe you have special newspapers that say otherwise in your world, I don’t know.
You can add the Lewinsky thing to it if you want, but then we’re changing the subject.
.
jay Says:
Vetted by who you might ask.
Multiple Congressional subcommittes, Senate comittees, Ken Star with an unlimited budget, her own Presidential candidacy team, and Obama’s transition team. That’s by who.
.
jay Says:
Cop-out!
Um no, rule of law is pretty important.
.
jay Says:
If a person knows about the tactics that will be used, should they be restricted to National Security laws if they know the laws are to be broken?
That is a very interesting legal question, and one that I don’t know the answer to. It’s possible that there might be something heinous enough that “whistleblowing” might get you out of a charge of treason for publicizing confidential national security information. But as far as I know you’d most likely get life in prison. Even if you were a Congressman or Senator.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:05 pmThe first intelligent response to my question.
So anyone who is bound by the Secrecy act doesn’t have to do anything even if they know that laws are being broken. Who do you prosecute then? Everyone or no one?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:06 pm——————————————————————————–
He won’t answer my question at all. :(
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:06 pmMy god jay, the question is not if torture works, the question is, is torture illegal? Who cares if it worked, we should not have used immoral and illegal practices to gain any information.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:07 pmHe’s scared of you, shoeless.
I wish he’d go away, he smells like crusty pee.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:07 pmClinton on Cheney: ‘It won’t surprise you that I don’t consider him a particularly reliable source.’
Oh no she didn’t! She might as well said “that man can go straight to hell.” You go Hilary!
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:08 pmAHH my little sockpuppet. It’s been awhile. You are still dancing to the Puppeteer’s strings I see. How’s the Militia thing going?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:08 pmok, as much fun as troll-whacking is, I have to go to a meeting
you guys have fun picking on jay, the ignorant illiterate coward who can’t read the answers to his own ignorant questions
hey jay, there’s a terrorist under your bed! BOO!
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:08 pmnow go change your undies
Good for Clinton. She didn’t take the bait and fired back appropriately. She is very good at what she does. We saw in the campaign that she was way better than the team around her. As I said then, let Hillary be Hillary — as she was here.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:09 pmTo Jay and the rest of the right wing scaredy cat cowards:
I have a little story for you. Ever heard of the book citizen Soldier’s by Steven Ambrose? In a nutshell it’s a collection of first hand accounts by soldier’s that fought from D_Day to the fall of Berlin. One soldier’s account of his time struck me particularly hard, because it has every thing to do with torture.
As the allies closed in on the Nazi homeland, fighting became ferocious. According to this soldier, the Nazis would fight to the death when fighting the Russians or the French, because they knew what was in store for them. Now, when the were battling American forces and were beat, they would surrender, because they knew they would be treated HUMANELY. Yes, even the bloodthirsty Nazis respected American forces for their humanity.
That my right wing pantywaist friends is what it means to be American.
The day we stoop to the level of our enemies is the day we no longer can be seen as a moral beacon for the rest of the world.
And this is exactly what has happened under the Bu$h/Cheney cabal, and it is sickening. How dare they tarnish the reputation of this great nation. THIS is what enrages true American patriots.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:09 pmWhen the questions get tough little Tommy has to run away.
See ya.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:09 pmRepublicans no longer have any sense of illegality. That explains why all of their leaders are so corrupt. They don’t understand that something is illegal until they are actually sitting in jail.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:10 pmNational Archives spokesperson Susan Cooper confirms that Cheney did submit a request for unspecified documents on March 31st.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:11 pmjay Says:
So anyone who is bound by the Secrecy act doesn’t have to do anything even if they know that laws are being broken. Who do you prosecute then? Everyone or no one?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:06 pm
__________
Not necessarily – there may be other options, though I will admit to not being an expert at all on the provisions of the act. The violations could be brought to the agency’s Inspector General for an intra-agency investigation, or a member of Congress who is cleared to receive classified information could call for a closed-door hearing on the issue.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:12 pmNice story but you forgot the treatment that the Nazi’s gave the US soldiers captured at the Battle Of the Bulge.
Nazi’s were notorious for their torture You’re not that stupid are you? Or are you?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:12 pmjay, answer my question.
You didn’t mind Dick Cheney keeping his files secret when he was in office. Now you are demanding that Hillary Clinton find them and open them. What changed for you jay? When exactly did you realize that you had to know what was in those files that you cared so little about before?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:13 pmjay Says:
If a Representative had information on what tactics were going to be used and later were used, should they be bound by the Secrecy act if they knew the law was being broken?
Simple question
No, it is not a simple question. At least the answer isn’t. I am no expert on Constitutional law, but if it violates the Constitution or Bill of Rights, yes. A Representative’s oath is to his country, not his government or its President, which changes every 4 to 8 years. Within those guidelines there are, and must, be state secrets that must be kept. State secrets that violate the laws of our land, or lay a dangerous precident that erodes the foundation of our government or our country should never be cloaked in the robes of secrecy.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:14 pmBut what do I know? This from Joe Sixpack, not from another dumbass named Joe the Plumber.
So, should we now open all the files or just selective files. If openness is the goal then Obie should be completely open. Right? We have gone this far.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:14 pmjay, is this question too tough for you?
You didn’t mind Dick Cheney keeping his files secret when he was in office. Now you are demanding that Hillary Clinton find them and open them. What changed for you jay? When exactly did you realize that you had to know what was in those files that you cared so little about before?
Answer the question.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:15 pm#
#
jay Says:
RantingTommy Says:
jay is just a pansy that is looking for justification of his fear
he has been terrorized by dick cheney into supporting torture because he believes America is weak
A person who falls on name calling instantly loses the argument.
Why won’t any of you answer the question?
Archie?
You don’t get to define who “instantly loses the argument.”
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:16 pmI’m sure that is what you saw in my post, my little sockpuppet.
Typical post from you my dear.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:16 pmCheney probably already has the documents. He just can’t legally let anyone know that. Remember when he hurt his back moving boxes out of his office? You know, just a few boxes he didn’t want anyone else to move?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:16 pmjay Says:
Nice story but you forgot the treatment that the Nazi’s gave the US soldiers captured at the Battle Of the Bulge.
Nazi’s were notorious for their torture You’re not that stupid are you? Or are you?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:12 pm
___________
Yeah, um… That was kind of the point of the story. Even though the Nazis were brutally torturing American POWs, we DIDN’T stoop to their level. We treated their captured soldiers humanely, a fact that probably saved American lives because it made the German soldiers more likely to surrender than fight to the death.
Thank you for helping reinforce the point.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:17 pmIt seems that I do have the power to define who loses an argument. When a person resorts to name calling that means they have no other input to the discussion. They lose.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:17 pmJay, I answered your question in #130.
Test your reading ability.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:18 pmWhat have we learned today kids? First we found that Republicans love communist torture techniques. Now we find that Republicans admire the Nazis.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:19 pmJay you ignorant moron, where in my post did I mention anyting about Nazi treatment of Americans?
I stated that Nazis would surrender to American forces because they knew they would be treated humanely, as opposed to god knows what if they were captured by the Russians or French.
What part of that do you not grasp? Is your brain not developed to the point where abstract reasoning is possible?
Jesus, you right wing fu(ktards really are getting bad.
One question for you my right wing coward: If we stoop to the level of our enemies, what distinguishes us from them?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:19 pmYou certainly have shown that you know absolutely nothing about history. That’s not my fault. Educate yourself before you spout off.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:20 pmHey nutball jay, are you really saying that because of what the Nazi’s did to us in the battle of the bulge, we should have done the same to them? Are you really that stupid?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:20 pmjay Says:
So, should we now open all the files or just selective files. If openness is the goal then Obie should be completely open. Right? We have gone this far.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:14 pm
____________
In my opinion, all the files that can legally be released should be released, redacted if necessary.
However, this is not a question of Obama selectively releasing certain files. This is a question of the administration complying with a FOIA request for specific files. If you want the administration to release the documents that support your argument, you need to submit your own FOIA request.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:21 pmjay Says:
So, should we now open all the files or just selective files. If openness is the goal then Obie should be completely open. Right? We have gone this far.
“Obie”? You mean President Barack Obama? What happened to respecting the office?
Oh, right, you’re a typical Republican hypocrite.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:21 pmjay Says:
You certainly have shown that you know absolutely nothing about history. That’s not my fault. Educate yourself before you spout off.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:20 pm
_________
What did I get wrong? Do explain.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:22 pmAh my little sockpuppet, you EMBARRASS yourself every time you post to me. I see that you are still dancing to the Puppet masters of this site.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:22 pmAnd again you embarrass yourself my little sockpuppet.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:23 pmjay Says:
It seems that I do have the power to define who loses an argument. When a person resorts to name calling that means they have no other input to the discussion. They lose.
In your own little mind, apparently you “win.” A person can resort to name calling when the “discussion” is simply one troll (that would be you) clinging stupidly and desperately to the same repetitive nonsense. At that point, there is no discussion (not that you ever actually provide one), just the prattling of a juvenile (again, that would be you).
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:23 pmjay Says:
And again you embarrass yourself my little sockpuppet.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:23 pm
_____________
Stop dodging and answer my question. What did I get wrong?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:23 pmJay:
From Nazi jackbooter, to TP thread bootlicker…
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:24 pmNice!
Spare me some of the “he said, she said” and get to some of the points which are not in dispute: Cheney has no credibility on this subject because he sought and authorized the justification of the tactics used. He also is still in the D.C. courts trying his best to suppress the release of documents which will prove his guilt in this and other matters. Sec. of State Clinton is only stating for the record what Repubs and Dems have said hundreds of times already in the various media. “Defenders of Cheney” is now under consideration for protection under the Endangered Species Act which was also opposed by Cheney and his enablers but ultimately may be the only thing that saves them. Cheney is a national and international war criminal, a disgrace to all thinking Americans of both parties and a walking professional and personal disaster; a Toxic Dick for sure.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:25 pmIf memos are going to be released showing the extent of waterboarding, it makes sense that all the memos should be released.
It looks like to me that if you water board someone 183 times, it either isn’t very effective or you’re just waterboarding them to make them suffer.
But, the administration cannot selectively release memos. Cheney has a point that the memos showing the effectiveness of the method should also be released.
It does have some bearing. If the Bush administration was getting memos that the waterboarding wasn’t effective that would be significant when we considered why they continued 183 times on one suspect in one month.
Conversely, if the Bush administration was getting information that the method was effective and the people being waterboarded were believed to be in possession of information that could prevent further attack, that information would also be significant.
That information, whatever it shows, would go a long way towards showing the motivation behind what appears to be excessive waterboarding.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:25 pmjay, I know you admire both, but whose torture techniques do you prefer, the communists or the Nazis?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:26 pmchiroptera toasterhead Says:
Stop dodging and answer my question. What did I get wrong?
I want to see what toasterhead got wrong, too. Come on, Jay.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:26 pmI only visit this site when I want to see who are being manipulated by the Far Left. I don’t live here like you do my little “Sockpuppet”. Dance my dear, I’m pulling your strings. Ha Ha Ha Ha.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:27 pmThen why didn’t he release them?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:27 pmUsing a subject that you know nothing about is where toasterhead went wrong. Everyone abused the captured soldiers during every war.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:29 pmbackup Says:
But, the administration cannot selectively release memos. Cheney has a point that the memos showing the effectiveness of the method should also be released.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:25 pm
____________
And as a U.S. private citizen, he is more than entitled to submit a Freedom of Information Act request to the CIA to have them release the memos showing the effectiveness of torture. He could probably tell them exactly where to look.
Sure, he will have to pay for the search time and photocopying, but there might be a senior discount he can take advantage of.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:29 pmIts true jay doesn’t live here. He lives in his mothers basement.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:30 pmjay Says:
I only visit this site when I want to see who are being manipulated by the Far Left. I don’t live here like you do my little “Sockpuppet”. Dance my dear, I’m pulling your strings. Ha Ha Ha Ha.
Yeah, you’re just a barrel of laughs, jay. You must be getting your jokes from that other comedian, Rush Limbaugh.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:30 pmjay Says:
Using a subject that you know nothing about is where toasterhead went wrong. Everyone abused the captured soldiers during every war.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:29 pm
___________
Prove that Americans tortured German POWs during World War II.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:31 pmYou mean to say that you spend all your time here having your strings pulled by the Leftist who select the topics of discussion so you can stroke each others ego’s. Right my little “Sockpuppet”?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:31 pmAre you saying that the US didn’t? You really don’t know anything, do you?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:31 pmjay Says:
Using a subject that you know nothing about is where toasterhead went wrong. Everyone abused the captured soldiers during every war.
If I can find just one example of someone not abusing captured soldiers in a war, any war at all, you’ll be proven wrong. There are tons of wars from which to chose from.
So… care to explain in a little more detail just where toasterhead went wrong in his example of Nazi soldiers preferring to surrender to Americans instead of fighting to the death as they did with French and Russians?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:32 pmNow you can see why Rush wanted Hillary to get the nomination. As soon as she won they would have come up with trumped up charges about her fingerprints or whatever. The Republicans had 8 years to fabricate false claims against her. If they had real claims why wasn’t she charged with anything in the 6 years they controlled everything.
Answer that JAYBIRD.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:32 pmWhy do Republicans hold Democrats to a much higher standard than they do Republicans?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:33 pmjay Says:
You mean to say that you spend all your time here having your strings pulled by the Leftist who select the topics of discussion so you can stroke each others ego’s. Right my little “Sockpuppet”?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:31 pm
__________
How come you don’t update Hussein Toasterhead Watch anymore, Pagan? That was one of the funniest comedy sites on the Internet!
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:33 pmshoeless. I really don’t know. I am assuming that if memos weren’t released in the past, it would be chalked up to security.
But, some memos have now been released. In particular the ones showing the extent of the water boarding.
Now that that information has been released, it paints a picture that the water boarding was excessive and possibly/probably unjustifiable.
Because of that situation, the Bush administration may now feel compelled or be compelled to explain why 183 water boardings in a month is justifiable.
Cheney has call for the release of memos that he claims show the effectiveness of the method. If it’s true, that would have some relevance.
Is Cheney’s call to release those memos not true?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:35 pmbackup Says:But, the administration cannot selectively release memos. Cheney has a point that the memos showing the effectiveness of the method should also be released.
Oh, please, can we release those memos? Lets get the real skinny on how the administration used torture.
Not that we need any more evidence.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:35 pmjay Says:
Prove that Americans tortured German POWs during World War II.
Are you saying that the US didn’t? You really don’t know anything, do you?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:31 pm
___________
You’re right. I’m not saying that the U.S. did or didn’t. I don’t know the answer. That’s why I’m asking you to saying “prove that Americans tortured German POWs during World War II.” I’m placing the burden of proof on you, as you were the one who made the allegation.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:35 pmjay Says:
Everyone abused the captured soldiers during every war.
That may be true. But until the Bush Administration came along, my country never condoned it.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:35 pmThey loved the US. It was the lesser of the two evils. You shouldn’t rely on the Liberal versions of what happened during WWII. It’s not my fault that you have been brainwashed. Do some real research into what happened.
Hell the Nazi’s killed and tortured their own people including their own soldiers.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:37 pmjay Says:
Everyone abused the captured soldiers during every war.
Nice excuse but totally erroneous. In WWII, the Germans treated Allied prisoners as POWS. And I am not aware of any complaints filed during Korea or Viet Nam. America used to take the Geneva Conventions seriously.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:38 pmI have more morality than you my little “Sockpuppet”. Just look at your own words. The DHS has listed Veterans as possible terrorists and should be watched. Just like you do.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:39 pmbackup Says:
Cheney has call for the release of memos that he claims show the effectiveness of the method. If it’s true, that would have some relevance.
Is Cheney’s call to release those memos not true?
Well, his lips were moving . . .
Did Cheney provide specific memos? He must know exactly which means “prove” the effectiveness of torture, right? Especially since no one outside the politicians on the Right (and their flunkies) are making that claim. Experts in the military have said the complete opposite. Who do you think is credible, backup?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:40 pmbackup Says:
Cheney has call for the release of memos that he claims show the effectiveness of the method. If it’s true, that would have some relevance.
Is Cheney’s call to release those memos not true?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:35 pm
______________
No, it wouldn’t have relevance, except to further establish the Bush Administration’s culpability.
It’d be like the defense, in a murder case where a husband was on trial for murdering his wife, introducing into evidence a series of love notes between the victim and the guy she was having an affair with. Yes, it may establish some motivation, but it doesn’t make the murder any less illegal.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:41 pmLuis, I can give you an example. My father was captured in Germany at the end of WWII. Neither he nor anyone in the camp he was in was mistreated by their captors.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:41 pmYou also don’t know what you are talking about. Hey, if being naive helps you get thought the day then so be it.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:42 pmjay Says:
I have more morality than you my little “Sockpuppet”. Just look at your own words. The DHS has listed Veterans as possible terrorists and should be watched. Just like you do.
More evidence that “jay” can’t read. The DHS reported that right wing nutjobs have targeted returning veterans for recruitment. But stick to your dittohead talking points no matter how little evidence there is to support them.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:43 pmjay Says:
The DHS has listed Veterans as possible terrorists and should be watched. Just like you do.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:39 pm
____________
This is a lie. Try reading the DHS report.
Now, you were going to provide some proof of the U.S. policy of torturing POWs during World War II. What’s the ETA on that, Rodan?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:43 pmjay Says:
So anyone who is bound by the Secrecy act doesn’t have to do anything even if they know that laws are being broken.
Well, it’s not so much that they don’t have to, it’s that they can’t.
.
jay Says:
Who do you prosecute then? Everyone or no one?
I’m going to go with door number three – the people who committed the illegal acts.
.
jay Says:
Nice story but you forgot the treatment that the Nazi’s gave the US soldiers captured at the Battle Of the Bulge.
That’s not relevant to what he was talking about. Page up and read it again: not torturing paid operational dividends.
.
jay Says:
So, should we now open all the files or just selective files. If openness is the goal then Obie should be completely open. Right? We have gone this far.
Where were you when Bush was in charge? Oh yeah, I forgot we’re being inundated by a wave of immigration from another dimension of “anti-Bush-too” right-wingers who didn’t exist last month.
As it stands, each document appears to be being released as the law allows. What are you going to say once 100% of the documentation does hit the public domain?
.
jay Says:
You certainly have shown that you know absolutely nothing about history. That’s not my fault. Educate yourself before you spout off.
What in ct’s post was historically inaccurate? You kind of glossed over the part of explaining what he’s insufficiently educated about. He pointed out how not torturing was useful to American G.I’s, you said that the Nazis tortured people. These facts do not contradict one another. Or did Germany win and I missed it?
.
jay Says:
Sockpuppet
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
.
backup Says:
But, the administration cannot selectively release memos.
I agree. They should be following a fixed legal standard for clearance. That doesn’t mean all the memos would be released, or that they’d all be released at the same time, but they shouldn’t be allowed to cherry-pick.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:43 pmThey loved the US. It was the lesser of the two evils.
Jay, is that not the point being made here that the Nazi’s choose the lesser of two evils by surrendering to Americans? The Americans didn’t torture as a matter of policy.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:43 pmJay, you are calling my father a liar. He was a POW in Germany and also a line grunt in Korea.
The US used to hold to the Geneva Convention out of principle.
The only principle you recognize is the one who expelled you from junior high.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:44 pmThat is true for the masses but if they thought you had information that they wanted bad enough then you got the full Monty. You are aware of the Gestapo aren’t you? Not very nice people and also the SS. C’mon, you’re only keeping your eyes closed. It must be dark inside a closed mind.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:45 pmjay has a document that proves that backup does not p*ss in city alleys. I insist that jay release that document to clear backup.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:45 pmJay, it’s been said, but worth repeating since you have demonstrated an unusually thick cranium:
Individual soldiers may have tortured and murdered their adversaries on both sides, that is undoubtedly true.
But never in the great history of our nation has our government openly condoned and advocated torture.
And in case you haven’t gone outside Rush or Grudge world today (besides treating us to your presence here), there is a nice little story about the origin of these tactics. Perhaps you should read that article.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:46 pmJay Says:
They loved the US. It was the lesser of the two evils. You shouldn’t rely on the Liberal versions of what happened during WWII. It’s not my fault that you have been brainwashed. Do some real research into what happened. Hell the Nazi’s killed and tortured their own people including their own soldiers.
The Liberal version? What, you mean the one where the Americans descended upon Europe riding unicorns and shooting rainbows from their asses until their enemies surrendered and they single-handedly liberated the whole world from Nazis, japanese fighters, and probably aliens and leprechauns as well?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:46 pmAnd what in the whole wide world qualifies Mr Ari to offer an opinion on torture?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:47 pmBecause he represented the Bush/Cheney crimes to the media? Give me a break – not a torturous break, just a break from the GOP insanity!
Sorry my little “Sockpupet” but many things were done on both sides. You’re just too stupid to admit it.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:47 pmjay Says:
Sorry my little “Sockpupet” but many things were done on both sides. You’re just too stupid to admit it.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:47 pm
__________
Prove it.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:49 pmjay Says: That is true for the masses but if they thought you had information that they wanted bad enough then you got the full Monty.
Poor little sock puppet. You have no idea of who or what my father was. The Germans did. And they still behaved themselves.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:49 pmjay Says:
The DHS has listed Veterans as possible terrorists and should be watched.
No, the DHS listed extremist right-wing groups as potentially targeting veterans for recruitment. That’s not “listing the veterans.”
That would be like saying that a report on child molesters is “targeting children for scrutiny by law enforcement.”
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:49 pmYes, let’s not remind Jay that it was a DEMOCRATIC president that led us through WWII, and a DEMOCRATIC president that dropped the bomb on Japan.
Must have been some powerful rainbow buttplugs our Howitzer’s were firing!
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:50 pmProve me wrong. Do some research.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:50 pm#
For months Cheney had a shredder truck pulled up to his back door. Now that he’s destroyed all incriminating evidence he wants documents released. In addition why were those tapes showing torture destroyed by the CIA? Because the Bush administration believed in transparency? I don’t think so.
Cheney still has never released his visitors log which he was legally required to do. And now he wants to whine about some documents that might be favorable to his argument released. Easy to say when everything on the other side of the argument has been shredded.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:50 pmriding unicorns and shooting rainbows from their asses.
Luis, you own me a keyboard.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:51 pmOff topic, but I love ragtime piano! I play stride and swing myself.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:53 pmProve me wrong. Do some research.
Post a link that proves your point. Or is that too hard?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:54 pmtoasterhead. that is a great point, but it could also be like this:
The wife kills the husband. The prosecutions shows a video of the killing taken from a security camera. It appears like a crime that she should go to jail for. But, she claims that she has evidence (eg. photos of past personal injuries, written death threats from the husband, and threatening phone messages) that show she was convinced the husband was going to kill her.
The claim, or the actual evidence, may not prove her innocence, but it would have relevance in the matter.
That evidence should be considered in the hypothetical. And if Cheney claims that there are memos that show the effectiveness of the waterboarding method and/or actual averted events, they would also have relevance.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:54 pmProve me wrong my little “Sockpuppet”. My English is just fine. Dance to the Puppet Masters my little “Sockpuppet”.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:54 pmjay, give us just one link were it was American policy to torture German POW’s during WW2?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:54 pmCalling jay a sock puppet would be a compliment to him. And an insult to sock puppets. He resembles a condom used multiple times and thrown in an alley somewhere. Good for nothing and unattractive to see.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:55 pmCan we say hostile boys and girls?
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:55 pmARGH this guy represents my district… makes me feel dirty.
jay Says:
Prove me wrong. Do some research.
Into what?!?
WHAT’S YOUR FCUKING POINT?
.
Hoodathunktick Says:
riding unicorns and shooting rainbows from their asses.
Luis, you own me a keyboard.
Me too. You’re going to have to get a bulk rate discount if enough people have read down this far.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:55 pmMy English is just fine. Dance to the Puppet Masters my little “Sockpuppet”.
oh, my, that truly is irrefutable.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:55 pmYAWN. If wishes were horses, then beggars would ride.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:57 pmI never brought up the Nazi’s here, it was your friends who did that. I didn’t slander any Veteran here but history is history and if you spent some time learning what really happened during WWII and stopped your stupid people bashing and did some research, (I know you won’t) you might learn something.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:57 pmbackup Says:
And if Cheney claims that there are memos that show the effectiveness of the waterboarding method and/or actual averted events, they would also have relevance.
I’m sure that any of those he wants to have included as admissible evidence should certainly be permitted at his trial. But he hasn’t even been indicted yet.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:57 pmjay Says:
republicans hate facts Says:
ElBruce Says:
That would be like saying that a report on child molesters is “targeting children for scrutiny by law enforcement.”
Didn’t you know that jay has trouble with english as a first language? He doesn’t understand rational or logical points of a discussion and makes sh*t up when he loses an argument.
Prove me wrong my little “Sockpuppet”. My English is just fine. Dance to the Puppet Masters my little “Sockpuppet”.
So many words, so little meaning.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:58 pmY’know, Jay sounds just like Exley.
Same refusal to ackowledge historical reality, same inability to post relevant links.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:58 pmjay Says:
Prove me wrong my little “Sockpuppet”. My English is just fine. Dance to the Puppet Masters my little “Sockpuppet”.
Offtopic… but your lack of commas (and the recent news) made me imagine you talking like Stephen Hawking’s computer.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:58 pmjay Says:
Dance to the Puppet Masters my little “Sockpuppet”.
OK, now I’m going to have Metallica stuck in my head all day. Thanks.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:59 pmbackup, jay, explain what Cheney was having shredded in those months the truck was parked at his door. My guess is everything that would refute his argument.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:59 pmbackup Says:
And if Cheney claims that there are memos that show the effectiveness of the waterboarding method and/or actual averted events, they would also have relevance.
Um, no. They don’t prove that waterboarding was the only effective measure.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:00 pmI think TP should provide group discounts to keyboards and monitors if they expect us to have to deal with trollish insanity.
Ok, maybe we like it but…
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:00 pmAnd he won’t be indicted. Obie won’t open that door. It’s something he and the VP would face when he leaves office.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:01 pmjay Says:
And he won’t be indicted.
I’m calling it – one point for getting the wingnut back on topic!
Also, I just love it when you guys make predictions.
.
jay Says:
It’s something he and the VP would face when he leaves office.
You mean not being above the law? I don’t think he was planning to.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:03 pmJay, could you please tell me where I can find a REAL history book about WWII? I thought actual recollections by soldiers who FOUGHT AND DIED in the war would be pretty accurate, but according to you, this is not the case. Please provide me a link or something so I can edumacate myself.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:03 pmI know you are just being who you are my little “Sockpuppet”. You can’t help that. So sorry you have such a close mind. Know nothings and loud mouths like yourself have to do what you do. It helps you sleep at night I guess.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:03 pmAstoundingly, jay has a minor point. The German soldiers in combat did act as soldiers. It was the behind the lines clowns who never faced an enemy gun who liked to play god.
Sort of like today.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:03 pmBelieve it or not, I have to agree with you on this point. Denying the facts as My little “Sockpuppet” does is a big problem.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:05 pmjay Says:
I know you are just being who you are my little “Sockpuppet”. You can’t help that. So sorry you have such a close mind. Know nothings and loud mouths like yourself have to do what you do. It helps you sleep at night I guess.
Dude, do you have a text generator for this stuff? Can I have the link?
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:06 pmWhat jay can’t admit is the idea of torture gives him a chubby.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:06 pmThis is a good point. This thing is currently being tried in the court of public opinion. We probably won’t get an objective (non-partisan) judgement useless it does go to some kind of trial or hearings.
The pretext that we shouldn’t air the whole matter, because of security concerns, seems to have dissipated with each new memo release.
Opening up the matter to a formal review, would either absolve the Bush administration, or help hold them accountable, for the use of the techniques. It would also better cement our national position on the matter.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:07 pmPiper was a front line SS commander who’s troops were involved in the Malmady shooting of Americans.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:07 pmCrap, backup actually made a rational post. What is this world coming to?
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:08 pmjay Says:
Prove me wrong. Do some research.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:50 pm
_____________
Ok, done. What I found was that, while there were several incidents during the war of American soldiers killing German and Italian POWs or soldiers who were trying to surrender, such as the Dachau Massacre or the Biscari Massacre, these war crimes were investigated by the U.S. military and those responsible for giving the orders were usually court-martialed and punished for their crimes.
Which means that these incidents were not U.S. policy, but were actions that were in VIOLATION of U.S. policy.
I didn’t find anything that proved U.S. soldiers tortured POWs. Please provide the proof upon which you base your repeated allegations.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:08 pmI’m all grown up “Sockpuppet” unlike you. I see you’re into calling Veterans “UNPATRIOTIC” and “terrorists” just like the Obama administration and the DNS has done. Sorry little girl, I’m more patriotic than you will ever be.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:10 pmJay is only here to distract and bother us, so mission accomplished.
Flag the troll.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:11 pmjay Says: I’m all grown up “Sockpuppet” unlike you.
Group giggle.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:11 pmGerman front line soldiers were involved in a lot of mass killings of civilians and POW’s on the Eastern Front and to a lesser degree on the Western Front. It just wasn’t the behind the scene clowns.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:12 pmHoodathunktick Says:
Crap, backup actually made a rational post. What is this world coming to?
He’s been doing that for a couple of days now.
I suspect it’s a trick of some sort…
<__>
.
chiroptera toasterhead Says:
I didn’t find anything that proved U.S. soldiers tortured POWs. Please provide the proof upon which you base your repeated allegations.
Let me get that for you, jay:
“Prove me wrong. You are uneducated, my little sockpuppet. Run off and do your homework assignment, sockpuppet.”
I think I’m getting the hang of this!
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:12 pmNow visit the Pacific theater. Also, you might want to do a bit more research than some blurb on Google. You couldn’t of read all the information and diaries that have been written on that little blurb site you just spent 10 minutes reading.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:13 pmI don’t get how revealing documents about the effectiveness of torture makes it any less illegal?
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:13 pmIt doesn’t but shouldn’t the whole story be told or just part of the story?
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:14 pmrhf. The all caps and the ending of each post with an insult, I actually enjoy. But, I have to ask? There is no way that you are always that passionate.
I guess what I’m asking is: Are you really for real?
Not all the time, but sometimes, I laugh out loud, because I think it’s so funny.
But, I really don’t know if you’re crazy or comically genius.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:15 pmRUCeriousMaggot! Says:
I don’t get how revealing documents about the effectiveness of torture makes it any less illegal?
Shhhh, it actually makes it more illegal but the apologists haven’t figured that out yet.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:15 pmI’d love for the whole story to be told at trial.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:16 pmjay Says:
Now visit the Pacific theater.
“Next, do some research on the Peloponnesian War, my little sockpuppets. The Greeks committed as many atrocities as the Spartans. Prove me wrong. You can’t. You haven’t done the research. Next we turn to the Cimbrian War, fought between the Roman Republic and the Teutonic tribes of Germany…”
WHAT’S
YOUR
POINT?
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:17 pmElBruce, I think it is on the top of his head.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:19 pmElBruce, c’mon, we know his point is:
So what if our government knowingly and willingly violates international law and the Constitution! Lot’s of people have done it, all over the world, at various points in time! No sweat!
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:19 pmCheney said there were WMDs in Iraq. Cheney says there are memoes that prove torture resulted in actionable intelligence.
jay, you want the whole story? Here it is: Cheney lies to get what he wants. There are no “effectiveness” memoes. Cheney just wants to create problems for Obama and justify himself.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:19 pmIt doesn’t but shouldn’t the whole story be told or just part of the story?
We will never know the whole story because Cheney had many documents shredded not to mention the deleted emails.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:20 pmI think you are. If you want to really know something then you should be willing to do some research to learn the facts. I can’t write down the history of WWII on a lefty site nor will I. People here are closed minded. The cure is to do your own research and go as far as learning all the facts. There are thousands of books and diaries out there to chose from. None of these posters will ever read them. They are only here to dance to the puppeteers who starts these threads and they dance just fine for them.
They just want to deflect someone away from the topic here. It’s what they do.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:21 pmThe Bush Administration called for a massive crap on the Constitution party and the trolls are happy to join in. Trolls are much better at defecating than thinking or speaking.
Just read their posts.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:21 pmThe reports are there. You will have to release them unless you don’t want everything known.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:22 pmAnd I’m the one who slanders the Vets. You’re such a puts my little “Sockpuppet”.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:23 pmJay, did you have a father or were you a test tube baby? Or was your mother less than careful about recording?
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:24 pmYou are who you are my little “Sockpuppet”.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:24 pmThe reports are there. You will have to release them unless you don’t want everything known.
Are you sure that ALL the reports are there?
People here are closed minded.
If you leave then there won’t be any closed minded people here.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:26 pmNow that is intelligent. How’s your mother and father?
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:27 pmbackup Says:
toasterhead. that is a great point, but it could also be like this:
The wife kills the husband. The prosecutions shows a video of the killing taken from a security camera. It appears like a crime that she should go to jail for. But, she claims that she has evidence (eg. photos of past personal injuries, written death threats from the husband, and threatening phone messages) that show she was convinced the husband was going to kill her.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:54 pm
___________
Ok, that’s where my analogy falls apart a bit. The self-defense argument is a legitimate defense in a homicide case. There is no self-defense claim in the case of torture. It’s illegal no matter what the circumstances.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:28 pmIt seems that you people are only into name calling and vulgarities. So very intelligent from the wonderful left.
It’s what you people do isn’t it?
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:29 pmIt seems that you were the one who made that comparison my little “Sockpuppet”, not me.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:29 pmJay says: There are thousands of books and diaries out there to chose from.
My mom and dad are just fine. In fact, my father gave me a book, ‘The History of the 94th Infantry Division’ by a man named Byrnes. Dry but informative reading. 400 some pages and I sort of missed any references to torture on either side.
Ever read a real book about WWII, jay?
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:32 pmCome on jay, you say you are well read when it comes to WW2, tell me were you found the fact that torture of German POW’s was American policy?
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:33 pmNow you equate all veterans with Timothy McVeigh. Are you that stupid my little “Sockpuppet”?
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:34 pmRUCerious. It may not have bearing on the legality of water boarding, but I feel there is a big difference between these two scenerios:
and this
It’s the difference between torturing someone for retribution and torturing them because you have reasonable information that the torture would result in information that could prevent a future attack and significant loss of life.
Either way, it’s torture that we should not engage in. But, the reasoning behind the decision to engage in it, is still relevant.
If the answer is that the Bush administration was just torturing because they hated the suspects, they should be prosecuted for it.
If the answer is that the Bush administration thought that the tradeoff between waterboarding terror suspects to get information to avert terror attacks, was justifiable; then we need to re-evaluate the limits we will go to, to ensure security.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:34 pmjay, I’m pretty well read when it comes to WW2, so how about you give me just a short list of what you have read and I’ll do the same?
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:35 pmjay, you say people are only into name calling, I asked you two questions without name calling, care to answer them?
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:37 pmI never said any such thing. Maybe you should take a course in understanding English. I said that all sides participated in it to one extent or another.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:37 pmjay Says:
I can’t write down the history of WWII on a lefty site nor will I. People here are closed minded. The cure is to do your own research and go as far as learning all the facts. There are thousands of books and diaries out there to chose from.
The secret history of WWII… Everybody else is closed minded… Nobody admits the truth… This all sounds remarkably familiar, for some reason… Hey waitasecond, you’re one of them neo-Nazis, aren’t you? You were just stringing us along until you could pull Holocaust denial or some such shite out of your bag of tricks, huh?
Yeah, we’re not interested in buying. Try the next door down.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:37 pmtoasterhead. The self defense claim would be the prevention of a future terror attack.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:38 pmjay Says:
I said that all sides participated in it to one extent or another.
… and that that makes it OK.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:38 pmJay, you may be ‘well read’ on WWII but I have first hand reports of experience from my father. Know what? I didn’t learn any of it until he lay on his death bed. For fifty years, he kept his experiences to himself.
Not because he had done anything illegal or immoral but because the trauma of what he had to do for his country was more than he felt he could share with his children. He was an awesome soldier and hated that it made him feel less than human.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:39 pmCan’t you read my dear? You are the only one here that I know have committed “IMMORAL ACTIONS” and you try to justify them by your actions. You’re a Vulgar Immoral little “Sockpuppet” being manipulated by the puppet masters here.
Dance little girl, dance.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:40 pmSee jay you are wrong again. Some US soldiers on there own committed war crimes, not both sides. There is a difference, get it?
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:41 pmI wasn’t being insulting up there folks, I really think we’re arguing with a neo-Nazi. That’s the only explanation for why he won’t provide his list of research links that he keeps talking about regarding “all the things we don’t understand about WWII.” If he gave us any of them, he’d be exposed.
And arguing with neo-Nazis is a waste of time. I’m out.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:43 pmI’m not trying to take away anything from WWII vets. They were young boys, most of them, who took it upon themselves to protect this country. I worship them. My father was a Vet in Europe and my Step was a Vet in the Pacific. They both kept diaries. I have no reason to disbelieve either of them. I also am a vet,which RHF can’t stand. She’s not.
Noe of them talk about it very much and I never get into specifics about it.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:45 pmI’m not trying to take away anything from WWII vets. They were young boys, most of them, who took it upon themselves to protect this country. I worship them. My father was a Vet in Europe and my Step was a Vet in the Pacific. They both kept diaries. I have no reason to disbelieve either of them. I also am a vet,which RHF can’t stand. She’s not.
None of them talk about it very much and I never get into specifics about it.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:46 pmMy Lai gave lie to the ‘heat of combat’ excuse for war crimes.
Jay just likes the idea of being cruel and nasty.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:46 pmI’m still waiting jay, for a short list of books you have read on WW2, and like I said I’ll give you mine. It shouldn’t really be that hard, if you are so well read as you say.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:46 pmbackup Says:
If the answer is that the Bush administration was just torturing because they hated the suspects, they should be prosecuted for it.
If the answer is that the Bush administration thought that the tradeoff between waterboarding terror suspects to get information to avert terror attacks, was justifiable; then we need to re-evaluate the limits we will go to, to ensure security.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:34 pm
______________
We already know the answer. It’s in the memos and other documents that the administration thought that torture was justifiable in order to prevent future terror attacks. That’s still beside the point.
It’s written into the UN Convention Against Torture that no threat to national security can be used as justification for torture. It is not a mitigating circumstance. Self-defense is not a relevant claim.
Once you open up that loophole, then any state or non-state agent can claim “self-defense” as legal grounds for committing a crime against humanity. Al-Qa’ida could claim that they have a legal right to torture captured American troops and aid workers, because they present an existential threat to the existence of al-Qa’ida.
Do you really want to set that precedent?
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:46 pmDance little girl, dance. You are what you post my little “Sockpuppet”. Project much?
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:47 pmjay and rhf.
Take a minute and watch the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKk_qa_cg-I
you can find common ground.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:47 pmjay says:
I’m not trying to take away anything from WWII vets. They were young boys, most of them, who took it upon themselves to protect this country. I worship them.
Vets don’t need or want your worship… they need respect, jobs, and healthcare.
And for you to stop making their service more difficult by pretending torture is okay… that puts them in danger, both physically and mentally.
Stop.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:48 pmif, as you claim, you are a veteran and if, you have a father and step father with military experience and you can still condone torture, you are one sick puppy, jay.
Condoning torture gives lie to every American principle and with your claimed background, you are a traitor to everything those men stood for.
STFU.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:50 pmI like to imagine that rhf has a gearshift in place of a capslock key.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:56 pmBye. You call someone a Neo-Nazi and then you skip out. You’re who you are. It is not possible to quote a URL for what happened in WWII. There isn’t one. It comes from reading accounts of the people who were there.
Try the TIME LIFE books as a starter. There are about a half a dozen of them. Some are even on tape. Then you can move on to “The longest Winter”, “Citizen Soldiers”,”The ninety days” and hundreds more. Educate yourself.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:56 pmYour post speaks volumes about who you are.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:57 pmThey were and I am. I’m not surprised you can’t do the math. OBTW my step is till alive.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:00 pmElBruce Says:
I wasn’t being insulting up there folks, I really think we’re arguing with a neo-Nazi. That’s the only explanation for why he won’t provide his list of research links that he keeps talking about regarding “all the things we don’t understand about WWII.” If he gave us any of them, he’d be exposed.
Naw, he’s just a stupid troll, desperate for attention who will say anything, no matter how stupid, just to keep people enraged and engaged. Demented little units like Jay (or archie, or whatever he’s calling himself today) are only happy when the thread is about them. Being useless and inconsequential means no thread will ever really be about them, and posting stupid comments is the closest they get.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:01 pmAnd, unless your step is less than a veteran of Korea, as you claim, I bet he is real proud of your stance on torture.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:04 pmThe only pathetic person here is you My little “Sockpuppet”.
Your post prove that.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:06 pmDo some reading my little “Sockpuppet”.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:07 pmJay. let’s make this real simple. Name on person who has served in the military who agrees torture is legitimate. One small caveat is they have to be combat veterans.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:11 pmHe’s very proud of my service.
I just did what had to be done at the time. I am not a follower of torture. That is just your Lefty view of what I posted. You and “Sockpuppet” just see what you want to here like good little followers of the puppet masters who pull your strings.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:12 pmCome on, Jay. One combat era vet who agrees torture is legal. One. Can’t be too hard.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:13 pmIf jay ever served in the military then I’m the Queen of England. He’s a lying little sack of cr@p.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:14 pmtoasterhead. you are right.
Waterboarding is torture. America should not do it.
I think our reaction (or at least the national reaction) to the decisions to use waterboarding would be different depending on what happened.
If the Bush administration had no information that waterboarding was effective, 183 times seems criminally inexcusable.
If, on the other hand, there is some evidence that the suspects had access to future terror plans and that waterboarding was effective, the efforts at waterboarding would be more understandable.
Not more legal. But, more understandable.
This isn’t a great example, but looting is illegal.
If I break into a store and steal a bottle of cuervo because the police aren’t around and I want to get drunk; it’s illegal and difficult to understand.
If I break into a store and steal food and water to feed my family; it’s illegal, but more understandable.
If I am going to consider the use of waterboarding by the Bush administration criminally inexcusable because of the recent memos, I would have to also consider the rational that Cheney says exists in the other memos.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:14 pmI just did what had to be done at the time. I am not a follower of torture. That is just your Lefty view of what I posted.
No, that is what you are defending. You claim the Bush Administrations use of torture is justified.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:15 pmMy original post was to have all the facts brought out. All the people involved should be exposed not just those who agree with what you think. I’m not in favor of torture. I want all the facts to come out. That’s all and if you would care to read what I posted then you will see that.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:16 pmWhere do you see me saying any such thing?
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:16 pmbackup says: If I am going to consider the use of waterboarding by the Bush administration criminally inexcusable because of the recent memos, I would have to also consider the rational that Cheney says exists in the other memos.
Doesn’t the shift from rational to irrational bother you?
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:17 pmRight on. Lets have all the names and all the facts.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:18 pmjay Says: Where do you see me saying any such thing?
Why do trolls and Republicans think anything they said or wrote three minutes ago simply disappear?
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:19 pmDoes being a puppet dancing for the Puppet Masters here bother you?
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:20 pmjay, who were you with? What was your MOS? Did you serve in Viet Nam? If so who with? I was in the 25th infantry, 2nd of the 27th, Charley company 67-68. See how easy that was? Now its your turn.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:20 pmThis is also difficult to understand because I could have just as easily taken some bacardi 151 or some maker’s mark.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:20 pmgotta split. See ya.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:21 pmNo more than the idea that the unicorns are out to get you bothers you.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:22 pmJay isn’t a veteran. He just wishes he was.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:23 pmIf jay is a vet, all he has to do is answer my question. There’s a old saying about vets, we will see right threw you if you are full of shit.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:27 pmNothing is easy with the leftists here. Why should I believe you about anything.
I will tell you that I was close to the DMZ and I was a member of an EOD team there in 69 and again in 71.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:29 pmNice try jay. What was your MOS? What unit were you attached to? Where on the DMZ were you? What you gave me is what I hear from phony vets all the time. They can’t name there MOS, unit or were they were.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:44 pmbackup Says:
If, on the other hand, there is some evidence that the suspects had access to future terror plans and that waterboarding was effective, the efforts at waterboarding would be more understandable.
Not more legal. But, more understandable.
That terminology works. I’ll allow it.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:46 pmYou are so right Jay. Those darn lefties just like facts and details. Most vets I know can and have no problem with declaring their info. The ones who are vague are liars working off reported accounts.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:48 pmSo, Jay, unit, MOS, time in service.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:50 pmI can see right through your “shit” as you say. I don’t believe anything a person like you says. What was your MOS?
We might of been supporting each other in the central highlands.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:51 pmAgain, Jay, unit MOS, time in service. Not bullsh*t.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:53 pmjay, my MOS was 11 bravo, and if you were on the DMZ you were quite away from the central highlands you idiot.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:53 pmPWNED!
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:54 pmMine is USS Miller, GMT, 1974-1978.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:55 pmYou see, Jay, veterans are proud of their service and have no qualms about declaring it.
To quote Randomchaos…pwned.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:56 pmWhat have you done here for me to open up to a you?
My MOS was 89D40. 3rd of the 6th. Supporting Bat. B. 1969 and again attached with the 52nd Arty Bat. C. 1970.
Not that it matters to any of you people here.
Angel, I think your unit moved out of Vietnam on 1970. Of course my memory might be a little off.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:56 pmMy service number was RA 169 75 774, something I will never forget. Oh ya, that would be Army.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:57 pmArchibald! aka Jay
Shnookems! Honey, where you been?
Ready for some more?
Come give us some LOVIN!
You know you want it.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:57 pmI was attached to many units as my MOS was in demand in a number of places. RT1 was one of my major areas of operations and also rt 9. I also supported two Arty Units outside Saigon and in the Rt 9 area. Not that it matters much to you idiots.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:59 pmPart of my division started pulling out in 1971, but elements stayed on longer.
April 22nd, 2009 at 4:59 pmGee, Jay how long did it take you to dig up that info?
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:00 pmDidn’t one of the “incarnations” of our current troll claim to be a “spook”?
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:02 pmNow that wasn’t hard was it jay? I know nothing about your unit nor do I know what the hell your MOS is, but I’d say you are who you say you are.
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:02 pmWhy do wingnuts always think that lying is somehow the best way to support your party, and your nation?
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:04 pmI’d say you are who you say you are.
The envious relative of a vet getting jollies by impersonating them?
This clown is a proven liar.
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:06 pmI remember your unit pulling out in 1969. How many remained after that means nothing to me. They were not my concern. I do remember your unit being somewhere around Saigon and Ton So Nhut.
It wasn’t a large force at the time as your unit had withdrawn from that area.
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:06 pmTo tell you the truth, I could care less about what you think.
I don’t usually discuss my military service with leftwing idiots.
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:09 pmAnyone who disagrees with you are liars when you yourself are proven to be more closed minded than open minded people.
So what. Now I’m a terrorist in your minds and that says it all about you leftists.
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:11 pmWell you guessed wrong jay, the 25th infantry Division did not pull out in 1969 and its main base was Cu Chi. Also, my unit was not around Saigon or ton So Nhut. Area of operation was the Iron Triangle, and after that little flub I take back my “you are who you say you are”.
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:12 pmI’ll be god damned jay, you almost had me fooled. I must be foggy in my old age, you almost had me thinking you were another brother Nam Vet.
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:15 pmEOD pal. It’s not inconceivable to have our units cross paths with each other. I was in a Detached unit that went where I was told to go. I also was supporting units west of Saigon for a while. That’s was your territory wasn’t it?
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:15 pmjay Says: “I was in a Detached unit that went where I was told to go.”
Sounds like little has changed.
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:18 pmjay, blow it out of your ass. We were a full division. we had all of our own support units, we didn’t have other units being attached to us. Keep on fishing, I told you were I was, you shouldn’t need to ask in what direction from Saigon it was.
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:19 pmThe only unit outside of AVRN’s that were ever attached to us was part of the 3rd brigade of the 101st and only for a short time.
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:21 pmLets see how well you can still follow orders, jay…
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:25 pmDetach yourself from your computer screen, go upstairs, outside, and get a breath of air. Don’t worry, no one will take your gun or your Spam away.
I guess we did get close to each other then. I was in Cu Chi with the 44th EOD detachment for a while in 1969. I wasn’t there for long before I was assigned to the 52nd Arty outside Ben Hut shortly after.
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:27 pmAngel.
You should remember the people who swept the “Hells Half Acre” for booby traps and mines for you folks. Yes it was the 44th EOD.
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:31 pmThat bloated prick is my congressman. What an embarrassment to my district.
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:35 pmTo tell you the truth, I could care less about what you think.
LOL Then STFU.
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:36 pmYou are so full of shit jay. Why would the 25th infantry division who has their own Explosive ordnance disposal units have some outside unit come into Cu Chi? The 25th didn’t like outsiders, seeing as we had are own disposal units. Doesn’t make any sense.
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:36 pmWho the hell are you to judge me? Get a grip on yourself. I doubt that you were ever there because if you were you would know what I said is in fact the truth. Check it out you moron.
Are you just a liberal puppet? Who’s pulling YOUR strings?
Why are you hanging out with these closed minded idiots? They can’t see beyond their own rear ends here.
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:38 pmIf you were really there then you would know that you weren’t the only ones. I am now doubting that YOU were there.
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:40 pmJay has been seriously pwned. Too bad, so sad.
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:41 pmAnd you were where?
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:45 pmJay you twit, Hells half acre was what cu chi was called when the 5th infantry regiment went in in 1966. If you were there in 69 you would have had a hard time clearing anything seeing as the whole division was there by then, and cu chi hadn’t been called hells half acre since 66.
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:45 pmBoy this is way to easy. Of course we did operations with other units, mainly with the 2nd infantry and some with 101st. I never saw any units that were unattached. Like I said we had our whole division over their, we had all of our own support units. Never saw TDY units that were unattached or who were not part of the 25th.
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:50 pmobviously not where you claim to be, pwnboy.
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:51 pmAgain you can’t read. Why don’t you take some reading lessons. The 44th was based in Cu Chi in 69 so I’m familiar with the region. They had operations in Tan Uyen,Bein Hoa and thought out the region. Yes even in 1969 you putz. Now where did you say you were?
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:52 pmThe idiot returns.
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:53 pmAngel is the liar here. He is trying to justify his own little lie like a good little liberal. I doubt anything you have to say Angel.
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:55 pmlets see, jay, a troll with dubious credentials versus angel who has supplied solid information and been a quality poster.
Should we take a vote on who is more believable?
Or just laugh at jay?
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:58 pmSorry my little “Sockpuppet” but you idiots haven’t done anything except to prove your idiocy and ignorance. Of course that’s what you people are here.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:00 pmjay, the moment you call someone a name like “idiot” you lose the argument. It’s a common tactic of the wingnut right to insult anyone that does not agree with them, and it is transparent as hell.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:01 pmAngel hasn’t proven anything here. I doubt his credentials because he thinks he was the only person to be in Vietnam. Brothers don’t talk to brothers the way he has.
His credibility is zero.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:01 pmRight. That’s why most of you lose any credibility with the thinking public. I was insulted all day by you leftist idiots. Did I say Idiots? I guess I did. A term you people use here all day. I don’t take any of you seriously.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:04 pmJay, you need to make sure when you make something up you get it right. The 44th EOD was in Cu Chi in early 67 when the base camp was being built. Maybe that’s were you got that Hells Acre stuff.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:04 pmA great bunch of people. Nice to have around. I commend them for their duty to the troops, however, I haven’t met any of them.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:05 pmStill there in 69.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:06 pmYou should of known that if you were really there.
I guess you weren’t.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:07 pmI did say that but then again I have to use an accurate description of people like you now don’t I my little “Sockpuppet?
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:09 pmI thought you by the DMZ in 69? Which is it? You didn’t even know were Cu Chi was until I told you. You had to ask me if it was west of Saigon. Also, it wasn’t on rt9.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:10 pmNo I didn’t. You do have a problem with the English language or at least your reading skills.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:11 pmAnd you also have a problem with your reading skills. I said I was there for a short time before I was reassigned. C’mon pal, can’t you read. OBTW we always know where our units are. How about you?
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:14 pmI have asked every vet I have ever known, and I have yet met anyone who got spit on. That is another one of those old wives tales that are told over and over again.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:14 pmJay, calling people here leftist idiots just rings as wingnut propaganda. The fact of the matter is, progressives are on to your wingnut tricks. That is why we bash trolls like you. We are not going to tolerate your wingnut shit anymore. We have removed your fascist party from power and we will fight tooth and nail to prevent you from ever regaining it. We cannot risk it, Republicans have proven they cannot be trusted.
You and the rest of the wingnuts are all that’s left of the radical fringe that still supports the fascist Republican party. You have condemned your party to destruction. The coming torture trials or investigations should bury the Republican party for a generation or more.
The wingnut noise machine is still telling you that insulting progressives as being “leftists idiots” is somehow going to change reality. It’s not. Your propaganda has been clearly identified, and we are calling for some accountability.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:16 pmAnd so your ignorance shows through. The 44th EOD is not a medical unit. It’s not the 44th medical unit. Something totally different. How stupid are you?
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:17 pmIt has been shown in the past hour that my statement is correct. Your post shows just what I was saying is the truth.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:18 pmHow does one become a “Dungbeetle” any way? Pushing a load of crap I think.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:20 pmNot as stupid as you my little “Sockpuppet”. I never had an opportunity to meet any of them as I said.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:22 pmYou first my little “Sockpuppet”.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:23 pmYes Jay, for the last 9 years I have been rolling in wingnut shit. You are just another elephant dropping huge chunks of shit.
As for what a Republican thinks truth is, is almost laughable. Republicans can’t be trusted. They are liars. You have been caught in a lie about your alleged military service. Lying is immoral Jay, and that’s why you are a Republican I guess, because lying is what Republicans do best.
When are the Christians going to realize that a political party that is willing to lie about anything and everything is not a party they should vote for.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:26 pmI don’t have to justify anything to you leftists here. Us vets are just a bunch of terrorists to you.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:27 pmAnd you are what you are. Leftist closed minded haters of American Vets. Nothing new there.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:28 pmJay has decided from his wingnut propaganda that liberals think US veterans are terrorists.
Jay, please provide evidence to support this claim.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:29 pmWe are all “Timothy McVeighs” to you leftists. Lets see, one person out of 10 million Vets. You must be shaking in your boots.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:29 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
come on “Sockpuppet” p*ssy – service record?
I posted my units and service already, at least some of it,”Sockpuppet”. It’s in English so you’ll have to take a course to understand it.
How does one become an idiot like you my little “Sockpuppet”?
What is your service record?
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:32 pmI have observed over the last nine years, that wingnut trolls like to make statements what their opponents think, believe, and want. They never back up their propaganda nonsense, because it is just their own paranoia.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:34 pmJust for you “Sockpuppet”. 5 years active duty in the Army from 1967 to 1972. 15 years in the Army reserve. Most of my active duty was out of the country.
Now you.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:35 pmOn Torture.
Fortunately, this is not longer up for debate Backup we’ve signed an international agreement against it, and it violates our own law.
There is no evidence it produces valid results at all, but even if it does it’s ILLEGAL. It’s illegal for the same reason cops can’t plant drugs on people they suspect of being drug dealers.
If you don’t play by the rules, you’re one of the criminals. I’m sad that this needs to be pointed out.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:35 pmDon’t mind me, I’m just constructing a large brick wall around this thread. I’ll be out of your way in a minute.
Can somebody lend me a hand with this “Mental Asylum” sign…?
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:36 pmIt was you leftist wingnuts that brought up the discussion not me.
My original post was on topic but as usual you people don’t know how to keep on topic.
Now your service record.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:36 pmI don’t have to justify anything to you crazies here. I could care less. Now for some reason Angel wanted to lie about his service in the military to justify his point of view. Ask him to prove what he lied about.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:39 pmPost #481 if you can understand English my little “Sockpuppet”.
Now you.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:41 pmJay, there is no such thing as a leftist wingnut. A wingnut is a right wing nut, like you. You are clearly just making up insults because you got nothing and that is what the Rovian playbook says to do.
You are really pitiful Jay, just like your party.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:41 pmThey were until people like you changed the subject.
Post # 16
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:44 pmIsn’t that too bad. Read on “Sockpuppet”. I named my units and time of service. All verifiable. That’s not all of my records but then I don’t have to prove anything to an idiot like you now do I?
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:46 pmI’m not as pitiful as you are Levi. Dancing to the Puppet Masters of this site. They pull your strings and you perform.
It must be dark inside a closed mind.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:49 pmIt’s not my fault that you are too stupid to do the research “Sockpuppet”.
Now how about your service little girl? I know that you women weren’t up for the draft but you could of volunteered to serve your country as I did.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:51 pmThat’s all right. It’s what closed minded people do.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:52 pmActually jay, if you are going to make claims online, you will be asked to back them up. When you lie, it is extremely transparent to others who were actually there. Now admit your lie, and admit it openly, so the healing can begin.
Once you start down the path of the dark side, forever will it guide your destiny. The Republican party has endorsed torture, and that is about as dark as you can get. If you want to go down with the sinking ship that is the Republican Party, we will be happy to hand you an anvil.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:52 pmTo closed minded people such as yourself anything that disagrees with your indoctrination is a lie.
Don’t blame me for your shortcomings.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:54 pmI honestly can’t think of anything more hypocritical than a wingnut telling a progressive how close minded they are.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:55 pmI don’t hate women. I remember some time ago that you said you weren’t a man so I make my posts to a woman such as yourself. Do you remember when you said you weren’t a man “Sockpuppet”? Your words not mine.
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:57 pmI don’t blame you people here for being closed minded. The Puppet masters like Amanda and Ryan pick the topics and you all dance to the tune. Now that’s being closed minded.
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:00 pmIt’s all in print here my little “Sockpuppet”. You did say that you weren’t a man. I remember.
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:02 pmMost of these trolls are just low IQ footsoldiers. They are undereducated and ignorant, easy prey for wingnut propaganda. They have been told what to think, and what to say, and it doesn’t matter how much damage they are doing to their own party, or their nation.
We, as Americans, have a duty to prevent Republicans from ever regaining power, if not for their support for the use of torture, than for their use of propaganda.
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:02 pmRHF, I think you’re talking to Jake. The similarities are just too great. And I’m sure he’ll deny it. The legend of soldier-spitting is the giveaway; Jake tried that one too, as I recall.
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:03 pmGetting paranoid again “Sockpuppet”?
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:03 pmThe people that write the blog articles, and if we like the topic, we post on it. We like the topic of torture because we feel strongly about it. If we didn’t like the topics posted, we wouldn’t read this site, or contribute to it.
You may not like the topic, because it is going to be a huge nail in the Republican coffin, and you may try to wiggle and squirm to try to prevent the coming disaster, but it’s to late. The Republican Party is utterly exposed as having the same morality as Nazis and America isn’t going to forget it.
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:06 pmI’m here because you are here my little “Sockpuppet”.
I like it here. You people never fail to amuse me with your one sided thought process. You never stay on topic when I come here. You’re too busy trying to prove something to me. So far you have only proven one thing, you’re all closed minded, except for a few, and you’re not one of them. Your vulgarity and hypocritical nonsense amuses me. It never fails.
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:08 pmThe Puppet masters post and you dance.
One sided conversations until someone like myself shows up then you totally go ballistic. You can’t ever except an opposing view here. That’s hypocrisy from those who claim to be the enlightened one.
Dance children, dance.
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:12 pmThe Republican Party is utterly exposed as having the same morality as Nazis and America isn’t going to forget it.
I wonder if the libertarians are aware that a lot of their newly-minted brethren are former repubs, embarrassed to be linked with the trash-fire that is the republican party.
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:12 pmwow, this jay kid is still here?
dude, you really need to get a life!
you must enjoy being abused by your intellectual superiors
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:13 pmI’m still looking for someone with some intellect. So far I haven’t met any here, just people like yourself and My Little “Sockpuppet” who has proven over and over that her mind is closed and can only use insults to try and make her points. So far she hasn’t been able to make a reasonable one.
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:15 pmSo “Sockpuppet” where did you serve? Answer the question or forever keep silent about a persons military service.
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:16 pmYou can’t ever except an opposing view here.
Except… what?
Is this the same guy criticizing others’ spelling and reading comp?
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:17 pmI’m late to the party about proving the military service, but anybody can ramble off numbers and letters. 2nd battalion this, 23rd company that, 94th WTF, etc.
When I want to prove my military service, I just whip out my photo album:
http://www.geocities.com/john_rambo_site/rambo2-shoot.jpg
(just kidding, thanks for the service.)
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:19 pmOnly when they fail to understand English. I don’t criticize anyone’s spelling just comprehension.
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:19 pmI don’t feel that I have to justify anything to anyone especially here for a bunch of leftists who hate the military and call them terrorists. I did post some info though to shut them up but of course it was all lies to them. It’s their mindset and I understand that.
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:22 pmgood job RHF
I love reading when trolls spin out of control and argue themselves into a corner, proving their ignorance
admittedly, exposing the ignorance of this jay kid is about as challenging as hitting the ground with a baseball, but it is still classic to watch
the band is here, time to jam, you guys have fun
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:23 pmjay Says:
It was you leftist wingnuts
Quick FYI, the term for an irrational leftist is “moonbat.” “Wingnut” only applies to an irrational right wing person.
OK, continue.
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:26 pmOnly when they fail to understand English. I don’t criticize anyone’s spelling just comprehension.
Kind of hard to comprehend this:
You can’t ever except an opposing view here.
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:26 pmWhen you give me your Military record and then I might consider it. Why would I give anything to a leftist who never served the country. That’s you my little “Sockpuppet”.
I gave my units already. Easy to verify. It’s in a previous post. Now it’s your turn you liar and hypocrite.
I can spot a liberal Military hater from a mile away.
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:27 pmJay, you seem to be unable to grasp what I have been saying. Let me try to explain it as though to a child. The people that write the articles for TP do so because progressives like to read it, and comment on it. If the front pagers wrote about things we were not interested in, we would go elsewhere and there would be no TP.
I am here, posting in this thread, because I oppose torture vehemently. You are here to present a different point of view, which must be that you support torture.
Is there some other different point of view that you want to bring here or are you just a pro-torture wingnut?
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:29 pmbarfly Says:
Kind of hard to comprehend this:
You can’t ever except an opposing view here.
“You can’t ever, except an opposing, view here.”
“You can’t! Ever except, an opposing view here.”
I’m at a loss.
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:30 pmAnd as far as J(ake)’s sockpuppet assertion, if he’d bother to check a few threads, he’d see that posters frequently go off-topic, and post breaking stories, so no one here “dances” to anyone’s tune, but our own.
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:30 pmThanks for making my point Mr Fly.
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:30 pmjay. I believe you served. Thanks for the service. There are also many progressives or liberals here that also served. I don’t think any ideology or party has a monopoly on appreciation for the military.
I definitely disagree that people here hate the military and consider them terrorists.
I think more accurately they disagree about how our military is used. On that, they have some real valid arguments.
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:32 pmSo why hasn’t anyone tried to get back on topic Mr Fly?
Why won’t anyone answer my original question some hundred post ago?
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:32 pmPanting and red faced both, jay and rhf stared daggers at each other from mere inches away. There was nothing left to say. They’d said it all by now – disparage each other’s service records, called each other girls, there was only one step left to take…
Cradling rhf’s head with his hand, jay’s mouth parted, his tongue dancing flirtatiously around his upper lip. “Take me, you filthy Communist.” rhf responded, gripping a fistful of jay’s hair and pressing his body close. “You’re going down, you Fascist pig.”
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:35 pmAnyone who has ever served knows that you follow orders when given. You also don’t fight for the Generals but for your fellow brothers. Something that Liberals will never understand. A soldier in the field has to do what he is asked to do. RHF is an idiot and a hater of the Military as is evident in her attacks on me. It’s easy for her to do because she never served.
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:36 pmrhf. you did it again. That cracks me up! : O
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:36 pmSo why hasn’t anyone tried to get back on topic Mr Fly?
You Do know this statement totally negates your sock-puppet assertion… don’t you?
That reading comprehension thingie can sometimes be tricky, eh?
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:37 pmJay, you seem to think that progressives do not support the military. That is certainly not true in my case. I support veterans getting better health care, and all the benefits they were promised.
Correct me if I am wrong, but Republicans were the ones that cut military pensions and healthcare.
Jay, I support our men in uniform because I am NOT a Republican. Do you support our troops or do you support the Republican Party? Make a choice, because you can’t have it both ways.
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:38 pmrhf could feel jay’s heartbeat, his chest thumping against his own as their chest hairs intertwined together with their rubbing. jay coyly looked up and said “will you waterboard me this time?”
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:38 pmI don’t see it that way but whatever floats your boat.
I see it as a Vulgar liar (RHF) trying to bring others down to her level in the gutter.
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:38 pmA soldier in the field has to do what he is asked to do.
Um, isn’t that called an order? Or did your outfit work differently that all others in that you don’t follow orders, merely suggestions?
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:39 pmjay. you’re just mistaken about liberals not being able to understand. There are many here that have served.
Additionally, think about it. There aren’t veterans that are Democrats?
And on the torture issue. McCain was a veteran. A POW. He thinks waterboarding is torture and that we shouldn’t do it.
So, just because you are against torture, doesn’t mean that you’re a liberal military hater.
And just ignore rhf. He/She is crazy (or comically genius).
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:41 pmMake a choice, because you can’t have it both ways.
Remember the stories of soldiers forced to lie in their own waste? Let’s see who can name the administration, under which the deplorable conditions at Walter Reed were first brought to light?
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:44 pmIf you have to ask that question then you haven’t been paying attention. I support the Americans who want to see this country come together. That is something that is lacking on this site. All I see is bitterness and posturing by people who are being controlled by the Puppet masters who start the discussions on this site and the puppets that dance to their tune. My original post here today was a call for all the memo’s and records to be released so the complete story can be put before the American people. So far that hasn’t been done. I also want all those who were involved to be named and investigated.
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:44 pmCome on, jay. That’s funny. And also, kind of romantic.
ElBruce has obviously been reading some romance novels.
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:46 pmrhf. give jay a chance. you are both Americans that want the same thing. (give me a chance). You both want a stronger, better America.
Help him. Help him understand what you believe. And then listen to him. you don’t have to agree. Together we can make this a better, stronger America.
I have to stop now. (wiping a tear from my eye).
You get the idea.
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:49 pmAll I see is bitterness and posturing by people who are being controlled by the Puppet masters who start the discussions on this site and the puppets that dance to their tune.
Weren’t you just complaining about us not staying on topic?
You can’t have it both ways.
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:49 pmDo you remember the stories Mr. Fly? Shouldn’t you go and see things for yourself? You can you know. You can bring magazines and other wanted stuff to those Vets. They won’t chase you away. Just find a local VA Hospital and make a visit.
Don’t just listen to the stories Pal. The way that the past administrations have treated the Vets is deplorable and it didn’t start with Bush.
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:50 pmJay, why do you bother calling us sockpuppets when we are free to come and go as we please. You are being disingenuous and it is unbecoming. Your sockpuppet argument has been debunked.
Now Jay, for the record, do you support the use of torture?
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:50 pmLike I said. Hypocrites.
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:51 pmJust find a local VA Hospital and make a visit.
Don’t just listen to the stories Pal. The way that the past administrations have treated the Vets is deplorable and it didn’t start with Bush.
Except that Bush had been in office for 4 years before this came out, and all the while he was saying how much he valued their service. He had plenty of time to do something – and after it was revealed, he moved quickly to rectify the situation, and avoid a firestorm of bad press. But he did nothing for 4 years, while they suffered in silence. He was a republican, if you’ve forgotten.
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:55 pmAnd rhf. sorry for asking, but I have to know (to try to be less offensive in the future). Are you the yin or the yang? a sword or scabbard? outlet or plug?
you know. he or she?
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:56 pmReading comprehension skills Levi.
I only call one person here a “Sockpuppet” because she refuses to tell me her first name. That’s between me and her.
It goes way back to one of her inquisitions. I don’t consider what happened at Gitmo to be torture in most cases.
Some of it I do. If it were up to me I would do everything in my power to protect my family. How about you?
Lets have ALL the documents released. They exist and need to be declassified and those responsible should be investigated. All of them.
April 22nd, 2009 at 7:56 pmJay, you called everyone on this site a sockpuppet, and that argument has been utterly debunked.
Jay while I would do a lot to protect my family, I would not commit a war crime to do it.
Now, back to the basic question you have yet to answer. Its a simply yes/no question and you don’t need to use any other words.
Jay, do you support the use of torture?
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:01 pmIt didn’t start with him and it won’t end with him. Have you been inside a VA Hospital lately? Nothing much has really changed. A coat of paint here and some window washing there.
On the most part the VA hospitals are clean and well kept places and then there are places that aren’t so well maintained. They certainly aren’t as nice as the ones that the Presidents go to to get their services. No long lines and massive forms to fill out for them. Bethesda for one.
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:02 pmSome of it I do. If it were up to me I would do everything in my power to protect my family.
Say we captured a man and his son. Would you condone torturing the child, to get intel from his father?
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:03 pmI call only one person a “Sockpuppet” pal. Others are just puppets.
I already answered your question on torture. Check your reading comprehension skills. #588
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:05 pmIt didn’t start with him and it won’t end with him.
Now we’re in Fantasy Land, and me without my ticket! I will agree that another republican in office would probably mean more shortchanging of our veterans.
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:05 pmI understand the idea of doing what it takes to protect you family, but that is a separate issue than what is torture.
I find McCain very credible on the issue of torture. He was a POW, who was tortured. And, he’s obviously not using the issue as a partisan attack against republicans.
He thinks waterboarding is torture. I agree.
I understand the temptation to use waterboarding if it’s effective and it could help prevent future devastating terror attacks. But, we have to consider the ramifications.
Does it set the standard for the rest of the world? Do you really want America to be considered not the ‘land of the free and the home of the brave’, but ‘the land where we’ll torture other people to protect ourselves’.
I don’t think it’s as black and white as many here do, but I do think it is an issue that we have to address.
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:06 pmIf the father was holding my family or putting them in danger then I would do anything necessary to get the information that would save them. The son has nothing to do with it.
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:07 pmI make my judgments by the way people post to me and treat me.
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:08 pmCheck your reading comprehension skills. #588
First it has to be comprehensible.
No “acceptions.”
Snerk!
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:10 pmNice post. Typical of a person such as yourself. “Nazi and AL QAEDA extremist” is a good touch. You’re such an intelligent person my little “Sockpuppet”.
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:11 pmThat’s funny coming from a person such as yourself. You’re the hypocrite here sweetie.
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:14 pmToo simple for you pal.
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:15 pmjay and rhf. I asked my friends Dan and Jennifer about your situation. They gave some pretty good advice. Check it out:
http://www.howcast.com/videos/9504-Verbal-Warfare-Make-Up-or-Break-Up
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:15 pmThe son has nothing to do with it.
You’ve alread tortured the father, with little result. If you would do anything, the next step must be to torture his child, if merely the threat of it doesn’t sway him.
You really have no moral foundation, do you? It’s anything goes, established international law be damned?
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:16 pmWhen asked a simple yes/no question as to if he supports torture or not, jay was evasive at best. The closest answer I could get out of him so far is, “some of it I do”.
So we will assume the answer Jay is so hesitant to give is yes. Jay supports the use of torture. Now, torture is a war crime, and it is against US law.
Correct me if I am wrong, but if you support the use of torture, you are just as guilty as the torturer and the guy that ordered the torture.
It appears that wingnuts like Jay do not understand that there is not excuse for the use of torture. No excuse whatsoever. Doesn’t matter what the circumstances are. Doesn’t matter what the excuses are. Doesn’t matter one iota.
Torture is a war crime and is against US law. Republicans are trying to make excuses to protect themselves, but every wingnut that supports the use of torture is a criminal.
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:17 pmjay Says:
I call only one person a “Sockpuppet” pal. Others are just puppets.
FYI, when arguing on the interwebs, the term “sock puppet” refers to a false identity created to give the illusion of multiple people agreeing. So if I logged out from this account, logged into another account and then agreed with my own post under another name, each identity would be considered a “sock puppet.”
601 posts in here and you didn’t know that?
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:17 pmToo simple for you pal.
Correct usage always helps. Why can’t you except that?
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:18 pmYup I would. If it saves their lives I would certainly sacrifice mine. In every case. I guess you would never understand something like that but you are a fool and a moron aren’t you?
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:19 pmSo calling rhf “your little sockpuppet” suggests that you are both the same person using each TP account to have an argument with yourself.
Which is awesome.
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:19 pmElBruce. I didn’t know either. But, sounds like a great idea. I’ll get a few sock pockets for myself.
Sometimes, it gets lonely.
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:20 pmI think RHF hit on it. Jay is just evil, as is the party he represents.
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:20 pmSorry pal. You should keep track of all the posts here for proper usage of the language. Don’t you make a mistake though.
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:21 pmAlthough, it may be too much of a pain to log in and out of different identities.
I’ll just start agreeing with myself within each post.
Great idea, backup!
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:23 pmNo I’m a person who will protect my family even if it means I have to sacrifice my own to do it.
I knew you agreed with the DHS report sweetie. All 10 million Vets are a threat to people like you. You’re a fool and an idiot and it all comes out now.
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:24 pmYup I would. If it saves their lives I would certainly sacrifice mine.
You’re ducking the question. Too hard? Would you torture someone else’s child, if it was the only way to save yours?
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:25 pmO.K. The topic is torture, yet the topic is the old trope that the military consists entirely of Republicans, and we pansy liberals should be thankful that they stand between us and E-ville Inc. So what if they cut a few corners, at least they’re willing to do the job.
It’s tired—really tired—and it’s not true. In my experience, the people least romantic about the armed forces are soldiers and veterans.
USAF 1978-1982
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:27 pmAerospace Control and Warnings Systems Operator
2nd Communications Squadron
606 Tactical Control Squadron
Liberal then, liberal still
opposed to torture
And you are who you are an idiot and a fool who pictures herself to be of moral character while you put others down because of your closed mind. I think you and people like you are a greater threat to this nation than I will ever be.
You seem to have a deep routed hatred for others who disagree with you. My proof? Your posts.
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:28 pmSorry pal. You should keep track of all the posts here for proper usage of the language. Don’t you make a mistake though.
I daresay, I wouldn’t. Not like yours.
The first law of internet posting is that a person who criticizes another’s spelling grammar or usage, will invariably make a glaring mistake himself.
Just pointing out that you couldn’t even get past #1.
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:31 pmwiley. nice.
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:32 pmYou condemn the rest of the Vets because of one. How nice of you. It must be dark inside a closed mind.
OBTW in all my time in Service I was never taught how to take a ton of fertilizer, soak it with Diesel fuel, attach a fuse to it, put it in a truck to blow up anyone.
You’re an idiot and a fool.
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:32 pmJay, you really are an immoral person. I didn’t think people could be evil, I didn’t really believe anything could be so black and white, but clearly you are evil.
We are here to make sure people like jay are not controlling America. Progressives, in the battle against Republican fascism, we take no prisoners, and we accept no excuses.
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:35 pmThis copout to dismiss your poor spelling is just a load of carp.
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:35 pmNo. That I would never do. Your hypothetical was the father (the one putting my family in danger) or his child. I said that the Child had nothing to do with things.
Of course it wasn’t in “super duper English” so you couldn’t understand my answer. Right?
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:36 pmWhere did you serve sweetie? Still dodging the question I see.
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:36 pmIf it’s evil to protect a persons family then I guess you’re right.
I hope your family knows that you wouldn’t do everything possible to save their lives. Do you even have a family or are you just mouthing off?
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:40 pmAnd you’re the closed minded moron that you are. Nothing new from you in months. You post the same garbage over and over and over and over.
You’re a Putz and you amuse me with every post you make.
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:41 pmYou are what you are sweetie. You do have a Nazi fetish don’t you? Project much?
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:44 pmJay, I am calling you a criminal. You just don’t have the morality expected of Americans. You would commit a war crime hoping to help save your family, and I would not. That is the difference between you and I. I am willing to sacrifice my family and everything I have for what is right, and you are not.
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:46 pmYou’re lacking in your reading comprehension skills sweetie.
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:47 pmThe answer was about protecting my family by sacrificing myself. It’s OK sweetie you are the idiot here aren’t you?
You have me tried and convicted on a hypothetical question that will most likely never happen. You call me a criminal for something that hasn’t happened. What does that make you Pal?
I say it makes you a judgmental fool.
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:49 pmSure it was sweetie. Now go beat the dog.
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:51 pmI didn’t justify anything sweetie. You are the one with the Nazi Fetish. You keep bringing up your hero’s most every time we chat here. Do you also march in Lockstep with the left? Of course you do.
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:53 pmI wonder if Jay even knows that the Nazis used torture. I wonder if he realizes he is no better than the Nazis. I find it amusing wingnuts call progressives fascists, when they have gone “all in” when it comes to fascism.
Jay, reality check, you are an immoral person, and if the Christians are right, you are going to burn in hell for it. It’s not to late Jay, repent your evil ways and God may forgive you, because I never will.
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:54 pmYou’re just an amusement to me sweetie. So predictable too.
Now march for the Puppet Masters sweetie.
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:55 pmjust checking in to see how the epic battle is going, looks like rhf is still whipping up on “special jay”
amazing stamina, guys, really
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:55 pmIf I ever see hell then I’ll look you up. You’re just a judgmental fool who thinks he’s more important than he really is. Look where you are Pal. One of a dozen leftist marching for the puppet masters. I make short visits here but you live here with people like RHF.
Intolerance is thy name and ignorance is thy fame. Just like Sweetie. Hey if you fell down a well I’d throw you a rope but don’t ask me to help pull you up. Use your condescending demeanor to do that.
Enough banter fool. I have work to do. You two feel to call me names behind my back like you people always do.
Oh one more thing, get a life, or a hypothetical one if you can’t manage to get one.
April 22nd, 2009 at 9:01 pmJay does not understand that I have not convicted him of some hypothetical crime. If you support the use of torture, or make excuses for torturers, you are just as guilty as the torturers themselves. You and the Republican Party stand convicted in the court of public opinion and the sentence is death.
April 22nd, 2009 at 9:04 pm9:01pm EST – “special jay” throws in the towel
congratulations to the winner, and still champion: republicans hate facts
please drive safely
April 22nd, 2009 at 9:12 pmRHF certainly went the distance, but wingnuts have a weak spot, and that is their Christian morality vs. the lack of morality they show in their politics. They believe they are moral people, and when you point out they are not, they get really angry. Nothing I like better than an angry wingnut.
It may be my ego talking, but I don’t think Jay wanted to admit he was not behaving like a good Christian. That was the knockout blow and I delivered it with glee.
April 22nd, 2009 at 9:27 pmYou go and stroke your ego Levi. Stroke RHF and Tommy’s too. It’s what you idiots do here isn’t it? You just showed what kind of people you really are, closed mined idiots.
No substance and no brains. Being on the hook by one person most of the day. It was very amusing. You people are what you are. The TP site never fails to entertain.
Hey Levi, dung beetles also bring up their young in the crap or at least have sex in it.
Oh one more thing Levi, I never claimed to be a Christian. How stupid of you to assume that.
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha.
April 22nd, 2009 at 9:39 pmBackup are you still here?
on Torture: Fortunately, this is no longer up for debat we’ve signed an international agreement against it, and it violates our own law.
There is no evidence it produces valid results at all, but even if it does it’s ILLEGAL. It’s illegal for the same reason cops can’t plant drugs on people they suspect of being drug dealers.
If you don’t play by the rules, you’re one of the criminals. I’m sad that this needs to be pointed out.
You’re interested in the rest of the memos to come out(I’m ok with that) but what will they prove? It won’t make it any less illegal?
April 22nd, 2009 at 9:44 pmDon’t lose sight of Cheney’s grand plan. It’s not illegal if the (Republican) president says it’s justified.
A Democratic president can’t lie about a blow job— look a chicken!
April 22nd, 2009 at 9:54 pmJay, how many times did you say “close minded”, or “leftist” or “puppet masters”? You are just spewing wingnut propaganda. Have you no morals? Obviously you do not have the same morals I do.
As for the “dungbeetle” portion of my name, its perfect for dealing with all the shit wingnuts like to throw. The more shit you wingnuts throw, the greater my numbers become. You are surrounded wingnut, and this dungbeetle isn’t going to forgive or forget.
April 22nd, 2009 at 9:54 pmI really didn’t count Mr. Dunbeetle. Once should of been enough but you people are what you are and have to be reminded to look in the mirror.
You people are amusing to me and sometimes being reminded of what kind of people you are is important. Your kind never fails to bring out the hate when posting to people who have an opposing view. You never answer questions, you use vulgarity, call people Nazi’s and create a greater divide between the people of this nation. You live by an agenda and you’ll die by an agenda. You fail to see that you’re being led around by your little noses.
You also show what hypocrites you are by saying one thing and then doing another. Then there is RHF. What can be said about her? Vulgar, insecure, thinks she’s intelligent but is just a moron.
I visit this place for the amusement factor. Nothing more than a reminder of who you leftist really are.
Nothing more.
April 22nd, 2009 at 10:04 pmjay Says:
Nothing more than a reminder of who you leftist really are.
People who don’t torture people.
April 22nd, 2009 at 10:14 pmYou people are all wrapped up in your own self importance.
You are just a small group of people on an obscure little web site stroking each others ego’s. Nothing more. I visit you on boring days at work to help pass the time. You are at least good for that.
A very hilarious day today watching you people try and gang up on me as usual. Your ego’s were rampant, each trying to out do the other.
April 22nd, 2009 at 10:18 pmRight! According to your standards you were all guilty of torture today. Morons being morons, pure torture. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha.
April 22nd, 2009 at 10:20 pmWow, Jay has put in a double shift here today. Does the RNC pau a dime a post for overtime?
April 22nd, 2009 at 10:20 pmAnother wingnut using the “you people” phrase. [snark]You gotta love the class. [/snark]
If you don’t like being compared to a fascist, tough. You approve of torture, so you are no better than a nazi, if you don’t like it, tough.
You want to bring out the hate mongering? Lets talk about wingnut hate mongering. Wingnuts have adopted hate to a level even Nazis never dreamed of. Nazis mostly hated Jews and Blacks, but wingnuts hate everyone! Wingnuts hate blacks, Jews, the poor, our soldiers, homosexuals, the French, Muslims, pot smokers, socialists, communist, Marxists and Democrats. I probably left out a few groups you wingnuts hate and I apologize to those groups, didn’t mean to fail to point out yet another group that wingnuts hate.
Republicans are the party of hate and fear. Why you would want to project your hatred on others is beyond me, unless it is yet another chapter in the Rovian book of immoral deeds.
April 22nd, 2009 at 10:20 pmA late date at work. You people know what work is don’t you? Maybe not.
April 22nd, 2009 at 10:21 pmBlah Blah Blah Blah. More dribble from the so called self righteous left. You are the party of hate and fear. Read your own stuff on this site. Oh I forgot, you have trouble reading English here.
April 22nd, 2009 at 10:24 pmWhat are you FOR, jay?
April 22nd, 2009 at 10:28 pmOh, he said I am self-righteous. I am mortally wounded. Ouch now he is projecting his parties hate based platform on progressives, we won’t be able to live it down! Oh No, he is tossing insults around instead of trying to tell me I am wrong.
Sorry wingnut, you lose.
April 22nd, 2009 at 10:29 pmDariana. you’re right about the legal argument.
The closest I could come to the value in releasing the other memos was back in (around) post #355.
April 22nd, 2009 at 10:30 pmPeace and harmony between all peoples of the world. Even the left wing and the right wing peoples of this nation.
April 22nd, 2009 at 10:31 pmpeace to you, jay.
April 22nd, 2009 at 10:32 pmAnd peace to you backup.
April 22nd, 2009 at 10:34 pmThere will be no peace, no negotiation, no compromise. The Republican Party is finished.
April 22nd, 2009 at 10:36 pmSo you don’t want peace and harmony in the world. What do you want?
April 22nd, 2009 at 10:38 pmIt would be nice if there was peace and harmony in the world, but that is not reality. The reality is we are in a cultural war with Republicans, and it’s a take no prisoners war.
Jay, you are not one to be talking about peace and harmony. You are a pro torture criminal, and you belong in prison for the safety of everyone.
April 22nd, 2009 at 10:42 pmjay Says:
Right! According to your standards you were all guilty of torture today.
Nope. Our standards are “common human decency.” You may have to look that up to understand it.
.
Levi the Dungbeetle Says:
I probably left out a few groups you wingnuts hate…
Immigrants, right off the top of my head.
.
jay Says:
You people know what work is don’t you? Maybe not.
Getting paid by the post? Because you certainly haven’t had time to do anything else today.
April 22nd, 2009 at 10:47 pmI knew I was going to forget someone. Immigrants and Hispanics, I am so forgetful. Hard to keep up with all the groups Republicans hate. Maybe if I keep a list on a post it note on my monitor, I won’t leave out these two massively Democratic voters.
April 22nd, 2009 at 10:50 pmBy your serial number I would say that you were Regular Army. RA. That means you enlisted and were not drafted. Drafted military serial numbers began with US and NG for the National Guard. You enlisted prior to 1968 because in 68 those serial numbers were changed to SS numbers. I also had an RA number but I would never post it on this site for the loons like RHF to know.
Some things I just won’t tell a vindictive idiot.
April 22nd, 2009 at 10:51 pmWell, it probably doesn’t take jay long to clean house.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbRvsWuWNUM
kidding. but check it out. cool place.
April 22nd, 2009 at 10:53 pmHow do you know he is vindictive? You must be using your wingnut dictionary, because you have no way of knowing if he is vindictive or not.
April 22nd, 2009 at 10:54 pmSo you spend your time thinking of people to hate. I don’t hate any of those people but you might just be projecting yourself by keeping such a list.
I luv everyone. Hate is all consuming you know.
April 22nd, 2009 at 10:55 pmI see the posts she makes about me. It’s not a secret what she is.
April 22nd, 2009 at 10:57 pmjay. that’s cool sentiment. if you backed off the ‘liberals hate the military’ and ‘everyone here is a sock puppet’ positions, I would believe it.
April 22nd, 2009 at 11:00 pmI’m just playing the game you all play here. There’s no hate in any of my posts. However there is one person who condemned me to death here today. Now that is hate.
April 22nd, 2009 at 11:02 pmWeren’t you advocating torture or something? I honestly don’t remember if you ever said what your position was on, like, politics and stuff.
April 22nd, 2009 at 11:07 pmI could do that right after people stopped calling me a fascist, a Nazi, a murderer, a terrorist, an ignorant fool, a liar etc, etc.
I just doesn’t come from me. I’m just one person against the masses here. None of which are very friendly.
April 22nd, 2009 at 11:07 pmjay. I get what you are saying about other people. I have made the same comments myself.
But, I really believe this. If you really think the hate, or the insults, or the namecalling are wrong, you won’t change it by pointing a finger. you can start with you.
I bet you’ve got relevant stuff to say. But it’s getting lost in the melee.
And full disclosure: Me telling you this is like the pot calling the kettle black.
But, I’m trying to work on it.
Try it. It could be better:
http://www.productappeal.com/photos/couples_costumes/couple_costumes_hippie.jpg
April 22nd, 2009 at 11:10 pmI didn’t advocate anything. I was asked a hypothetical question about someone harming my family and I answered that I would do what was necessary to save them. Even give up my own life. Then I was accused of being immoral and a torturing terrorist and should be killed. How’s that? Nice people here.
April 22nd, 2009 at 11:11 pmDo you think that today’s conversation started out the way it ended? It didn’t. I asked if all the documents on torture be made public. I also called for all who were involved to be investigated.
On topic right. Next thing I know I’m being called a Nazi and a racist. You try and figure that one out and if you do let me in on it.
It didn’t start with me today. I am never given the opportunity to say what is on my mind here. I’m always attacked and the topic gets changed to insults. It’s what goes on here, you know that.
April 22nd, 2009 at 11:16 pmThis place is just a sometime place for me on long boring days at work. It passes time and is very amusing. That’s all. No one here cares about what any Non Liberal has to say.
None of them. They are all self absorbed people on a little known web site stroking their own bigotry and foolishness.
Not important people at all.
April 22nd, 2009 at 11:23 pmjay. I know. But, think about it. It a progressive web site. The reality is you (and I) are guests on a progressive web site. If you really want to know what progressives are thinking about, this is a place to do that. If you are patient and ignore the insults, you can also say what you want to say. It’s worth it to me.
If you’re serious, I would just reset my expectation.
But, I’m going to split. Good nite jay. Good nite everybody else.
Sincere peace and love.
April 22nd, 2009 at 11:23 pmcome on, jay. that’s just hater talk and you know it.
April 22nd, 2009 at 11:25 pmSorry but the attack puppets come out of the woodwork whenever I come here. I tried to keep on topic but wasn’t allowed to do so.
It’s a tactic that they use. Such small minded people who think they are important moralists. Lost on an unknown site spewing their bigotry.
April 22nd, 2009 at 11:29 pmGood nite backup. Peace to you and all humanity. May the people of the world bury the hatchet and all come together.
Peace and luv to you all.
Jay.
April 22nd, 2009 at 11:31 pmNot hater talk at all. I luv everyone but some people just don’t have that much importance or at least they present themselve that way.
Pease to all the people of the world.
April 22nd, 2009 at 11:36 pmPeace to all the people in the world.
April 22nd, 2009 at 11:37 pmjay Says:
It didn’t start with me today. I am never given the opportunity to say what is on my mind here. I’m always attacked and the topic gets changed to insults. It’s what goes on here, you know that.
…
Sorry but the attack puppets come out of the woodwork whenever I come here. I tried to keep on topic but wasn’t allowed to do so.
What are you, eight years old? Yeesh. You sound like we gave you a wedgie and pushed you in the mud.
Come back when they drop.
April 22nd, 2009 at 11:55 pmWowie.
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:52 amFunny how now that Bush is out peace-loving independents are coming out of the wood work to tell progressives what awful people we are.
sniff
wring out the hankie
bite knuckles
sigh
April 23rd, 2009 at 1:54 amRHF, You’re a small minded hypocrite who really has nothing to say. You repeat yourself over and over and look for adulation from other small minded people. You’re pitiful and and an idiot who no one in their right mind should take serious.
You are what you are as is evident in the posts that you make.
Not an important person in the world, who will live out your life as a bitter person. I almost feel sorry for you but you will reap what you sow.
April 23rd, 2009 at 8:09 amI own my own business as you well know unless you have a problem with prior conversations with me. Such a small mind you have. You post so much garbage that you can’t remember what you say or conversations that you have had.
A small minded person sweetie. That is why you resort to vulgarity and libel. It’s a tool of the small minded with nothing important to say.
April 23rd, 2009 at 8:13 amLevi, not only are you and idiot but you are also a hypocrite. You claim to be against torture but you convict me on a hypothetical question and then sentence me to death.
No moral high ground there Pal. You are what you are, an idiot.
April 23rd, 2009 at 8:31 amlol, special jay returns after his defeat to wallow in his own filth
too funny
April 23rd, 2009 at 8:37 amNothing to say Tommy as usual. I can never be defeated by people like you. I won on all fronts. If you get adulation from a dozen idiots for your comments it doesn’t make you right nor does it make you important, it just makes you one of the crowd.
April 23rd, 2009 at 8:54 amjay Says:
I own my own business as you well know…
Naturally. All Internet Republicans are business owners and combat veterans.
April 23rd, 2009 at 10:21 amI can only speak for myself.
April 23rd, 2009 at 10:28 amWhat company are you stealing from today Bruce?
April 23rd, 2009 at 10:40 amIt is clear, sadly, the the President is not particularly interested in prosecuting the criminals of the Bush family, and accomplices. I don’t give a good goddamn about wall street. Those people have been a thorn in America’s ass for well over a hundred years. let them fall. There are many “new deal” jobs to be made so we can let these human trash like A.I.G. and the rest go straight to hell. Time to clean house. Only problem seems to be does the President have the guts.
tedbohne
April 27th, 2009 at 5:55 pmN321MM@msn.com