Bill O’Reilly’s response to waterboarding: ‘Torture, my ass.’
By on Apr 23rd, 2009 at 11:15 am
Bill O’Reilly’s response to waterboarding: ‘Torture, my ass.’
Last night on The Factor, Bill O’Reilly hosted Newsday columnist Ellis Henican, who criticized O’Reilly’s tolerance of torture. “You disappoint me, you disappoint me,” Henican said, pointing his finger at O’Reilly. “I would have dumped that guy in the water 1000 times to save your life,” the Fox News host countered. The heated debate concluded with this exchange:
HENICAN: You’re coming out for torture now?
O’REILLY: Torture, my [bleeped].
HENICAN: Torture? Torture?
O’REILLY: Bleep that word. All right, Ellis, calm down. We’ll waterboard Ellis in a moment.
Watch it:
In the past, O’Reilly has offered full-throated defenses of torture and has enjoyed making jokes about waterboarding.
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Of course Orielly supports torture. He is a coward that thinks America is too weak to defend herself without resorting to torture.
Only cowardly wimps support torture.
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:19 amHow could O’Reilly be any more offensive? So the end justifies the means? Really, Bill?
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:19 amHe got completely destroyed in this.
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:20 amO’Reilly has officially gone off on the deep end. Someone should ambush O’Reilly and force him to apologize.
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:21 amOK, Billy, we proudly accept your offer. We’ll torture your [bleep], we’ll torture every part of your body, if necessary. You man enough to take some of that sissy waterboarding stuff?
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:22 amTorture, my [bleeped].
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:24 amShall I use a loofah?
The liver-spotted bottom feeder just can’t shake the coward/bully collar can he? He is a classic hyenah type, blind sider, loudmouth-coward, misogynist. Talks big, but I’d take tiny Garofolo for all the marbles in a death match with this shit stack. I cannot wait for his comeuppance. The day he is forced off the air, or fiscally broken by another sex offense.
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:26 amO’REILLY: Torture, my [bleeped].
Or, should we remove the comma?
O’REILLY: Torture my [bleeped].
THAT’S what the vibrator was for!
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:26 amIsn’t it ironic that its the people who’ve never put their ass on the line who think they know what’s best to defend this country?
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:26 amBO is a pansy, as are all people that think torture is necessary to protect America.
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:27 amWatch the full clip here
we’ve signed an international agreement against it, and it violates our own law.
There is no evidence it produces valid results at all, but even if it does it’s ILLEGAL. It’s illegal for the same reason cops can’t plant drugs on people they suspect of being drug dealers.
If you don’t play by the rules, you’re one of the criminals.
Why don’t I just go out and start shooting everyone that owns a gun, to protect the people who don’t have one… doesn’t make sense does it…
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:28 amOh we’ve been waiting for you to ask!
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:28 amO’Guiley the scumbag just keeps sinking lower and lower into wingnuttiness. O’Guiley wouldn’t last 30 minutes of waterboarding. What makes this even more horrific is the fact that it wasn’t about protecting anyone’s life. It wasn’t about protecting America from terrorism. O’Guiley has bought into the lie and refuses to let it go and face reality. Dude is seriously evil and sick.
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:28 amVictimizers always want to set the argument and say what is or is not abusive.
Sorry, it doesn’t work that way.
The only way you get a clear conscience is to act appropriately — not just by demanding it be so.
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:29 amHey bill, how about all the detainees who are inocent??? How many have been released with out charge, or proof of ever being involved in a terrorist orginization????? How many died in custody?????
GOD BLESS AMERICA???? FOR FUC*EN WHAT????? MAKING LIFE ON THIS EARTH UNBEARABLE?????
FU** BUSH …fU** CHANEY…AND FU** THE REST OF THE ANIMALS WHO PUT IN PLACE THIS PROGRAME.
May I also remind bloggers, in 1993 WTC attacts, all the purpatrators were NOT tortured!!! They all talked without torture. They were all convicted of there crimes without torture!!!! They will rought in jail while the rest of the nation can live with the knowledge that we obeyed the laws and the laws of humanity.
IS THAT SO DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND BILLO…YOU F***EN PIG!!!
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:30 amBybee and the rest of the war criminals have deep shit.
Pass the popcorn. Prep the orange jumpsuits.
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:30 amDoes O’Reilly honestly believe that waterboarding an individual 1000 times would save somebody’s life? It would seem to me that if nobody’s life has been saved after about the first 100 times or so, then it’s probably a lost cause.
If O’Reilly wants to waterboard somebody 1000 times, it probably has nothing to do with saving anybody’s life — it’s more likely that he gets a stiffy from it.
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:30 amPlease my fellow Democrats be smart about this!!!
I have yet to hear the real truth about this WHOLE situation, and that is that it is illegal PERIOD!!
I have heard pundits say its illegal and stop there, and all that is being talked about is the effectiveness of the torture that we have committed.
It does not matter if it was effective or not it is INTERNATIONALLY ILLEGAL! have we forgot this??
America prosecuted and put to death Japanese leaders for committing these crimes against humanity, and as citizens of this world (not the US) we need to call for the same, and show we are not going to stand for such evil. Even if it does spurt from our own nation.
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:30 amYou got that one backwards: You’re an ass that believes in torture.
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:33 amBilldo say`s he would have dunked that guy in the water 1000 times to save Henicans life. Do you think Billdo would allow himself to be dunked in the water 1000 times to save a liberals life?
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:36 amOREILLY: “Torture my ass!”
Why do I get the feeling that’s not the first time he’s said that?
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:38 amsscncturn64 Says:
Do you think Billdo would allow himself to be dunked in the water 1000 times to save a liberals life?
I believe Billdo would waterboard Henican 1000 times just for the fun of it.
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:38 ambilly doesn’t know whether or not he actually supports torture, or anything else for that matter.
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:40 amHe’s been in character towing fox’s party line for so many hours a day for so many years that he’s kind of a robot.
Garbage in from the network, digestion takes place, garbage out to the viewers.
And Bildo the Idiot believes that waterboarding is dunking somebody in water? He is incapable of learning anything.
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:42 amThis is the same arguement that Joe Scarbutt uses. We should have them both on the same station so that we know where they are at.
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:43 amI love all these tough guys like Billo and Limbaugh who think that waterboarding and the like is not torture.
Take away Rush’s pork rinds and he’d call his mother a Democrat.
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:46 amTo tie this into the last blog entry by Amanda, and to specify what P for Progress brought up about confrontation, that’s how O’Reilly and Hannity handle their confrontations: denial and commercial breaks.
Not being able to handle confrontation is something that is not narrowed down to only progressives. GE cuts mikes at a shareholders’ meeting? Well, those practices are also done by O’Reilly.
And to add something to this entry, O’Reilly didn’t deny he was coming out for torture there. Yes, waterboarding may have made us safe, but that doesn’t mean it is ethical. That’s the whole point of torture; to keep those represented by the torturer safe from those represented by the tortured.
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:47 amI just find it bizarro-world odd that one moment, Bill’O is talking about the heroic measures he’d use to save Henican’s life, the next he’s casually threatening to torture Henican. One rarely gets to see a true sociopath in action like that.
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:49 amthere is no bottom, he just goes lower & lower…
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:49 amTorture does not work, even if it did America is supposed to be above that and thats something all Americans should be proud of. For 8 years Bush/Cheney managed to make alot of people around the world who once looked up to America start to dislike us. President Obama is trying to restore a positive reputation of America. Why do rightwingnuts not want that?
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:50 amI would think that it might be fairly easy to goad O’Reilly into undergoing waterboarding to prove how butch he is. Then we’d see what he really thinks.
How about a netroots movement to question his manhood (re: waterboarding posturing)?
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:53 amYou guys also do realize that Water Boarding wasnt the only torture that was going on??
Why is water boarding all thats being talked about, their were ffaarr worse things that we were doing.
Dont play in to the Radical Rights hands, they want us to focus on this one thing, and they want us to focus on how many lives it MAY have saved
The real issues need to be addressed, and those are far from it. I mean think progress hasnt even posted a bulletin about what Im talking about. I implore them to dig deeper into this and start a movement about what Iv said not what Spin Doctor Billdo says.
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:53 amI will find it interesting, if (and hopefully soon), those responsible for war crimes are convicted, and Bill is on the records saying “I would do exactly the same thing…”.
That will be interesting indeed!
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:53 amDamn good question.
Who cares how many times Bildo would perform an act that costs him nothing and probably would give him a lot of perverse pleasure?
That’s no measure of anything but the level of sadism in Bildo’s character.
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:54 am“I would have dumped that guy in the water 1000 times to save your life,” the Fox News host countered.
Where do you draw the line to get them to talk Bill?
Cigarette burns?
Hot pokers?
Cutting off fingers?
Cutting off limbs?
Threatening to kill their friends or family members?
Actually killing their friends or family members?
The line is already drawn. They went over it. They need to answer for it.
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:55 amI think it’s because, to the right, they think waterboarding is an easy target for ridicule — “it’s just a little dunking, that’s all…” and for the left, it offers a vivid image of a universally unacceptable procedure, for which some have already been prosecuted in previous wars.
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:56 amBillo,
You are either in favor of committing an international war crime, or against it.
I guess we know what side you are on.
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:58 amWater boarding is torture. I first became familiar with the Laws of War as a law student at Indiana University where I was a research assistant to a professor writing a book on the history of military justice which naturally ends up examining illegal orders, war crimes and international agreements requiring prosecution of US military personnel by courts martial. This was during Vietnam as US soldiers were being tried for water boarding. I entered the Air Force as a JAG after graduating law school. We covered the issue as part of our basic training. After leaving active duty, I remained in the reserves and received additional training throughout the years while attending refresher courses.
I could go through a whole list of US precedents punishing water boarding from the Spanish American War through Vietnam. But here is the simpler way of handling the matter. Two acts have always been considered the classic examples of torture: (1) Mock executions and (2) Water boarding. They are always used as training examples simply because it is obvious that they are so wrong.
April 23rd, 2009 at 11:59 ami find it disgouraging that libs stand in the way of innovation by refuseing to allow new torture tactics to come to the free market.
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:00 pmGo Stormy Waters!
For as much as a goofball as he played in Sealab, he really seemed to hold his own against loudmouth.
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:02 pmOkay.
O’Reilly has to voluntarily subject himself to waterboarding.
I’m not being facetious–only then can he truly talk about whether it’s 1) effective or 2) justifiable. And if it’s truly not torture, he should have no problem with this.
Until then, can we all stop listening to him, especially about this?
(Thing is, if waterboarding really works, we’ll hear more than we ever wanted to about loofahs. Or falafel. I don’t know.)
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:05 pmI wish that there were some left wing nuts out there as crazy with guns as there are right wing nuts. Billo would make a perfect target and only his agent would cry when the bastard was gone.
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:05 pmgranolajohn Says:
Please my fellow Democrats be smart about this!!!
I have yet to hear the real truth about this WHOLE situation, and that is that it is illegal PERIOD!!
I have heard pundits say its illegal and stop there, and all that is being talked about is the effectiveness of the torture that we have committed.
It does not matter if it was effective or not it is INTERNATIONALLY ILLEGAL! have we forgot this??
America prosecuted and put to death Japanese leaders for committing these crimes against humanity, and as citizens of this world (not the US) we need to call for the same, and show we are not going to stand for such evil. Even if it does spurt from our own nation.”
I think the real issue that’s being discussed is, is water boarding LEGALLY defined as torture. Ethically many Americans differ on waterboarding as torture. I have also heard lawyers and judges differing on whether the treaties legally cover the Taliban and again if waterboarding is applicable as torture in those documents. This is a gray area because you have Republicans and Democrats who knew and condoned these practices back in 2002 and are now calling for an investigation.(Washington post story)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/08/AR2007120801664.html
So I’d say if you strongly appose waterboarding don’t single out one side of the aisle, go after everyone who knew and was involved. Personally I need to wait for the issue to be sorted out legally until I make up my mind.
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:05 pmGoody! Can I go first?
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:08 pmMr. O’R should prove the sincerity of his belief on waterboarding and allow it to be administered to himself on LIVE FOX TV. I’m sure it would be a ratings-buster.
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:12 pmI may be late to the party on this, but have you guys seen Shep Smith drop the F-bomb on Faux in the middle of this heated debate?
RP, you might want to check it out. After you check out JMOHR’s excellent post. Maybe it will help you “sort out the issue legally” so you can make up your mind.
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:12 pmA Pay-Per-View event featuring Hannity & O’Reilly being Waterboarded would garner enough money to solve the world financial crisis!
And annual reruns would fund world health care cost for eternity!
T-shirt sales would Cure poverty
posters sales would pay for honneymoons for gay couples
and bottles of the water used would solve world hunger…
Even Sean and Bill could brag about having the highest rated show in and for all time!
I cannot see a down side in this
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:12 pmTorture was used to Link Sadam to 9/11 Before they were made “legal“
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:13 pmOK, O’Reilly – why don’t you volunteer to be waterboarded to “prove” to all of your listeners that it really isn’t tourture. Hard, isn’t it, to actually do something than just run your mouth. You are disgusting !
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:22 pmRegarding this terminology, BillO’s now in disagreement with House Republican Minority Leader Boehner.
ralph the wonder locust Says:
I may be late to the party on this, but have you guys seen Shep Smith drop the F-bomb on Faux in the middle of this heated debate?
That was awesome. Somebody’s not reading his memos…
.
trevinla Says:
A Pay-Per-View event featuring Hannity & O’Reilly being Waterboarded would garner enough money to solve the world financial crisis!
http://static1.firedoglake.com/1/files//2009/04/joeplumber-dunking-booth1.jpg
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:28 pmWhat do you expect from a network that got its start with shows like “Hard Copy” and “A Current Affair?”
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:29 pmralph the wonder locust Says:
I may be late to the party on this, but have you guys seen Shep Smith drop the F-bomb on Faux in the middle of this heated debate?
RP, you might want to check it out. After you check out JMOHR’s excellent post. Maybe it will help you “sort out the issue legally” so you can make up your mind.”
I saw that and it is a great post. My issue still remains because of what I posted before, the international treaty may or may not be applicable to the Taliban/Al queda and waterboarding may or may not legally be considered torture. I believe it is more than rational to want either the Supreme Court or Congress to rule on the issue. My ethical perspective has no bearing, it is the law that matters. One more point, seeing that this is such a legal gray area, we need to change the laws one way or the other to clarify without a shadow of a doubt what is and isn’t legal to do while interrogating a suspect.
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:30 pmHennican also destroyed O’Lielly when they got into it about the so-called “Wall” that seperates info that is exchanged between CIA and FBI. Bill O had a bad night.
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:30 pmIn the past, O’Reilly has offered full-throated defenses of torture …
________
Full-throated?
No doubt, in the same manner he supported the Teabaggers’ Balls…
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:31 pmRP2012:
Personally I need to wait for the issue to be sorted out legally until I make up my mind.
You are an idiot, as proven by this statement. Do you have any sense of history? Do you know we sentenced Japanese soldiers to 15 years of hard labor for WATERBOARDING?
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:31 pmSupporting torture is a reaction to fear from PUSSIES like you
You are a sissy little b!tch if you think we aren’t bada$$ enough to protect ourselves without being pansy enough to support torture
grow a pair, you pansy sissy
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:34 pmbrothabill Says:
If someone raped my sister, I not only would kill that person. I’d hang him from a meathook for several days while I slowly tortured him to death.
I’d do the same thing to a terrorist and wouldnt think twice about it. What’s with all the pussies that care about terrorists lol
Unfortunately, if I have my sense of law correct, you would be prosecuted for doing so, correct? And if you did torture him just to torture him, that might put you away for even longer.
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:35 pmTweedster Says:
RP2012:
Personally I need to wait for the issue to be sorted out legally until I make up my mind.
You are an idiot, as proven by this statement. Do you have any sense of history? Do you know we sentenced Japanese soldiers to 15 years of hard labor for WATERBOARDING”
Yea you also fail to mention that the Japanese soldier did this to a U.S citizen. So who is the idiot? Who doesn’t know their history?
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:35 pmbrothabill Says:
__________
Don’t you just love these Tough Guys™ w/ their manly hypothetical situations?
No doubt, he’d be a-scratchin’ and chawin’ tobacky the whole time he was a-torturin’ that that rapist to death… all whilst wearing an A&F flannel shirt…
I think it’s time to send brothabill back to Ireland…
Flag away…
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:36 pmTypical right wing hack. Everything is politics to you morons you can’t tell the difference between right an wrong. There’s a difference between ordering torture and being told it may be used at sometime. And if a congress member on a committee is told classified information it is illegal for them to disclose it. Idiot.
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:36 pmRP2012 Says:
Torture everyone! I’m scared to death!!!!
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:38 pmTweedster, it appears that RP wants to be sure all the eyes are dotted and all the tees crossed before he’s willing to decide whether this nation tortures or not.
You see, apparently, this nation may torture, but only those who aren’t protected by international treaty. So that’s not so bad, right? I mean, sure, we torture, but only folks who deserve it.
At least, I think that’s his tack — the technicality thing.
I could be wrong, and RP could be angling to claim that techniques for which others have been prosecuted and convicted in the past are not torture if the victim is not protected by international treaty.
I’m a little confused by his legalistic waffling, but it seems clear that he wants to keep the door open for torture.
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:38 pmDoodlebug Shayne Says:
Typical right wing hack. Everything is politics to you morons you can’t tell the difference between right an wrong. There’s a difference between ordering torture and being told it may be used at sometime. And if a congress member on a committee is told classified information it is illegal for them to disclose it. Idiot.”
Yea me saying to go after everyone involved, not just the Republican administration you despise so much is political….hmmmm. If a member of congress is told classified information that is breaking laws of an international treaty, it is against the law for them speak out and stop it? Sounds a little fishy to me Doodle bug, will you present me with that law?
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:40 pmShayne, I’m not sure that they don’t know right from wrong.
The fact that they almost always choose “wrong” tells me that they recognize the distinction, it’s just their priorities that are fu(ked up.
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:40 pmAnd I’d gladly sit on the jury that convicted you and gave you the death penalty.
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:43 pmI’m absolutely in favor of going after everyone involved in approving torture, regardless of party affiliation.
Let’s be careful to assign responsibility where it’s warranted, however.
Seems to me that those who sought and crafted legal opinions justifying the practice bear a great deal more responsibility than a congressional leader who was briefed on the program and decided not to risk prosecution for revealing classified information. Still some responsibility there, sure, but not on the scale of those who pushed the boundary of what could be argued as legal.
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:44 pmRP2012 Says:
Yea you also fail to mention that the Japanese soldier did this to a U.S citizen. So who is the idiot? Who doesn’t know their history?
I fail to see your actual point RP. Small wonder, you rarely have one that is coherent or without it’s fair share of loopholes. Is it hard for you to accept that torture is torture?
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:45 pmralph the wonder locust Says:
I’m a little confused by his legalistic waffling, but it seems clear that he wants to keep the door open for torture.”
Are you actually faulting me here for wanting the law clarified before we spend millions of tax payer dollars prosecuting the last administration? It’s called law and justice ralph, not ” I don’t agree with what you did and I really hate you”
If it was done illegally then the attorney general has the decision whether to prosecute or not. If not then this is a dead issue and we need to change the law, one way or the other to clarify what is and isn’t legal, so we never have to deal with this again.
I guess I’m so irrational because I want rule of law to stand and be clarified?
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:45 pmbrothabill’s little dick seems hard…
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:45 pmSeems to me that those who sought and crafted legal opinions justifying the practice bear a great deal more responsibility than a congressional leader who was briefed on the program and decided not to risk prosecution for revealing classified information. Still some responsibility there, sure, but not on the scale of those who pushed the boundary of what could be argued as legal.”
Yes so let’s change the law so there can be no more interpretations one way or the other. You are interpreting the law one way and those lawyers another….so who is right?
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:49 pmI know you believe that Pelosi was given information about these tactics and did nothing to stop it. Personally, I can’t stand Pelosi and wish she would be replaced as Speaker because she should have started impeachment proceedings against Bush and Cheney and instead did nothing. However, no member of a committee can disclose classisfied information because that would be ILLEGAL. Maybe the fact that she had learned classified intel while on the Intelligence Committee tied her hands when it came to bringing up charges of impeachment. In that case she should have resigned and let somebody else handle it. The country is more important than any one politician or party.
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:50 pmRP2012 Says:
I guess I’m so irrational because I want rule of law to stand and be clarified?
In other words, you support torture in some cases as the illegal memos of the Bush administration laid the ground work for?
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:50 pmTweedster,
my point was, don’t call me an idiot when you are the one with missing facts. Point 2, that was a crime against a civilian not an enemy…..big big difference.
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:51 pmYou may call it “law and justice”, RP, but from here it smells like Norm Coleman’s legal challenges in Minnesota — a desperate attempt to forestall an inevitable conclusion by appealing to legal technicalities.
Waterboarding is recognized as torture. The United States has successfully prosecuted enemies soldiers for this crime.
The United States has now admitted to using the technique on those it considered terrorists.
Therefore, the Bush claim that “we don’t torture” is a lie and and the attendant moral high ground is lost. You can bemoan the potential expense of investigations and prosecutions, but it all sounds more than a little hollow.
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:52 pmRP2012, I’m sure your complaints were just as vociferous when the Republicans were wasting hundreds of millions of dollars impeaching President Clinton because he lied about a bl@wjob.
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:52 pmRP2012 Says:
Tweedster,
my point was, don’t call me an idiot when you are the one with missing facts. Point 2, that was a crime against a civilian not an enemy…..big big difference.
Wrong. The fact that is overwhelmingly relevant in discussion of waterboarding is the historically accepted fact that it is considered torture. The civilians that were waterboarded by Pol Pot were considered enemies of the states, so I suppose that is acceptable to you?
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:53 pmRP2012 Says:
Tweedster,
my point was, don’t call me an idiot when you are the one with missing facts. Point 2, that was a crime against a civilian not an enemy…..big big difference.
Point 3, you have proven that a wind-bag can somehow be full of sh*t.
Do you personally believe waterboarding is acceptable? Stop the prevarications.
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:55 pmI know you believe that Pelosi was given information about these tactics and did nothing to stop it. Personally, I can’t stand Pelosi and wish she would be replaced as Speaker because she should have started impeachment proceedings against Bush and Cheney and instead did nothing. However, no member of a committee can disclose classisfied information because that would be ILLEGAL. Maybe the fact that she had learned classified intel while on the Intelligence Committee tied her hands when it came to bringing up charges of impeachment. In that case she should have resigned and let somebody else handle it. The country is more important than any one politician or party.”
I agree with you on most everything. My frustration on the issue, is how 6 years later, these people are all up in arms over this. They all knew and no one said a damn word, illegal or not. If we are violating international treaties it is the duty of those public servants to the American people expose the laws being broken. Believe me I don’t care if it’s a republican or democrat who gets throw under the bus, I just want fair justice served, not politics as usual.
April 23rd, 2009 at 12:57 pmStrange that a right-winger now so forcefully embraces moral ambiguity in this case… that’s kind of out-of-character for a conservative — er, sorry… libertarian.
And no, it’s not just me who is “interpreting” the law this way. Pretty much all of the establish worldwide legal community interprets it this way as well — torture is a crime.
The only ones who appear to be disputing that simple legal proposition are those whose butts are in the sling.
Um, no, that would be a straw man argument. I’ve already explained that your desire to see rule of law clarified sounds insincere.
Rule of law should stand and be clarified. That’s rational. But to use that process to obscure the criminality of behavior that has long been recognized as such as disingenuous and destructive to the integrity of the law.
April 23rd, 2009 at 1:00 pmAre you saying the only time torturers should be prosecuted is when American citizens are tortured?
April 23rd, 2009 at 1:01 pmYou are a liar. Your point is you want Pelosi to be held as responsible because she didn’t violate the law and spill classified secrets as those who initiated those acts. Only if she is accused can anybody be accused right?
April 23rd, 2009 at 1:05 pm#
#
Tweedster Says:
RP2012 Says:
Tweedster,
my point was, don’t call me an idiot when you are the one with missing facts. Point 2, that was a crime against a civilian not an enemy…..big big difference.
Point 3, you have proven that a wind-bag can somehow be full of sh*t.
Do you personally believe waterboarding is acceptable? Stop the prevarications.”
Personally (and this may be the easy way out) it’s a touchy area for me. I have no sympathy for terrorists or people who conspire with terrorists. I say quick military tribunal and then if found guilty, bullet to the brain. I know the CIA and FBI and Military say they need the intel to stop future terrorist attacks. So my opinion is have a military tribunal and if found guilty, waterboard away until you get what you need and then a bullet to the brain. That is of course if waterboarding is legal, if not then don’t do it. Let’s not be hasty though and go waterboarding every dick and Jane who we think might be a terrorist. Don’t forget that this chap who got waterboarded 183 had a key role in 9-11, don’t be to sympathetic, though he should be dead by now (you guessed it, bullet right between the eyes).
April 23rd, 2009 at 1:05 pmYou are a liar. Your point is you want Pelosi to be held as responsible because she didn’t violate the law and spill classified secrets as those who initiated those acts. Only if she is accused can anybody be accused right?”
No that is not my point.
Show me the law. Seriously give me a link to that specific law and it should say “under no circumstances can any member of government divulge classified information, even if that information violates national law or international treaties.” or something to that effect. Good luck finding it.
April 23rd, 2009 at 1:09 pm“I guess I’m so irrational because I want rule of law to stand and be clarified?
Um, no, that would be a straw man argument. I’ve already explained that your desire to see rule of law clarified sounds insincere.”
Well if you explained it ralph and it “sounds insincere”, then I guess the issue is solved….and do you know what a straw man argument is?
April 23rd, 2009 at 1:12 pmbrothabill Says:
If someone raped my sister, I not only would kill that person. I’d hang him from a meathook for several days while I slowly tortured him to death.
You are a bad person. I bring this up because I don’t understand why you expect other people to be concerned with your opinion. Like, if the devil popped up in a bunch of flames and said “I like to eat babies,” what, are we supposed to go on record as disagreeing with that? It’s a foregone conclusion that most people disagree across the board with villians such as yourself. So what’s your point?
.
brothabill Says:
America sucks, bunch of spineless yellow faggots lol
I’m looking forward to the forthcoming “America sucks” right wing demonstrations.
.
RP2012 Says:
Point 2, that was a crime against a civilian not an enemy…..big big difference.
How do you legally define that difference?
.
RP2012 Says:
I know you believe that Pelosi was given information about these tactics and did nothing to stop it.
What would you have done? Violated the State Secrets Act?
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RP2012 Says:
…bullet to the brain…
…then a bullet to the brain…
(you guessed it, bullet right between the eyes).
You spend a lot of time thinking about this, don’t you? Maybe you and brothabil should get together sometime.
April 23rd, 2009 at 1:16 pmRP2012:
So my opinion is have a military tribunal and if found guilty, waterboard away until you get what you need and then a bullet to the brain.
Very telling.
Thanks.
April 23rd, 2009 at 1:19 pmElBruce Says:
…bullet to the brain…
…then a bullet to the brain…
(you guessed it, bullet right between the eyes).
You spend a lot of time thinking about this, don’t you? Maybe you and brothabil should get together sometime.”
Not really, it’s just the quick, easy and painless way to get rid of someone who helped kill 3,000 of our countrymen.
April 23rd, 2009 at 1:20 pmTweedster,
You left out the end of my quote…”if it is legal”.
Anyway, what would you do in your infinite knowledge to someone who has intel on another terrorist attack and played a key role in 9/11?
I can’t wait to hear this.
April 23rd, 2009 at 1:22 pmoh its in there, my deepest apologies tweed.
April 23rd, 2009 at 1:28 pmRP2012, not one Bush administration member would violate “executive privilege” and respond to a congressional subpoena but you think Pelosi should have leaked classified intel. Putz.
April 23rd, 2009 at 1:28 pmRP2012 Says:
Tweedster,
You left out the end of my quote…”if it is legal”.
That is a lie. Your opinion was clearly stated and the legality clause you added at the end was purely a CYA measure. The detailed premise you laid out obviously means that you are thinking of how this practice should be executed on the assumption that it should be legal in your clearly stated opinion.
As far as what I would do with the infinite knowledge you ascribed to me in regards to your hypothetical situation, I would start by using interrogation techniques that are proven to be effective, not those that are proven to illicit false confessions.
April 23rd, 2009 at 1:29 pmBut there isn’t any proof that that there was any ticking time bomb that torture helped thwart.
April 23rd, 2009 at 1:31 pm#
#
Doodlebug Shayne Says:
RP2012, not one Bush administration member would violate “executive privilege” and respond to a congressional subpoena but you think Pelosi should have leaked classified intel. Putz.”
One, it’s not just pelosi it’s all of them who knew. So is this the law I asked you to show me that you kept using as an argument? Or could you not find it because it doesn’t exist?
April 23rd, 2009 at 1:34 pmTweedster Says:
RP2012 Says:
Tweedster,
You left out the end of my quote…”if it is legal”.
That is a lie. Your opinion was clearly stated and the legality clause you added at the end was purely a CYA measure. The detailed premise you laid out obviously means that you are thinking of how this practice should be executed on the assumption that it should be legal in your clearly stated opinion.
As far as what I would do with the infinite knowledge you ascribed to me in regards to your hypothetical situation, I would start by using interrogation techniques that are proven to be effective, not those that are proven to illicit false confessions.”
No I missed it and apologized for it. Like I said before my personal opinion (which is what you asked for) has no bearing on the law. I will make up my mind when the law is clarified. If it is illegal then do not do it, if it is legal and it works (which is a good point you make), well do it with discretion and only after a military tribunal finds the suspect guilty. That is fair and I don’t want to manipulate the law to my personal opinion.
April 23rd, 2009 at 1:39 pmAs pointed out in this opinion (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/the-tortured-logic-of-pro_b_190342.html), torture supporters are willing to do horrific things, things that the Khmer Rouge did, to save just one American life. But they are NOT willing to provide health care to all Americans to save millions of American lives.
April 23rd, 2009 at 1:44 pmRP2012:
That is fair and I don’t want to manipulate the law to my personal opinion.
Fair enough. If you ruled the world, torture would be a legal and acceptable practice. We got it.
April 23rd, 2009 at 1:45 pm“Torture, my ass “
You want us to torture your ass. Is that what you’re saying? Sure, Bill, we’ll be glad to torture your ass. But first, would you please move Rush Limbaugh’s head out of the way.
April 23rd, 2009 at 1:55 pmI am sure there are exceptional situations that would require torture. Not just waterboarding but even harsher torture. However, these situations are so few and far between that to allow torture via law is ludicrous. Break the law in these exceptional situations and save lives. Deal with the consequences if you think it’s so important to torture another human being (even a very evil one) and lower yourself to the level of our enemies. But to codify torture into law makes it an ineffectual tool. Dennis Blair, Director of National Intelligence, and Robert Mueller FBI director agree.
April 23rd, 2009 at 1:57 pmPseudonym Says:
As pointed out in this opinion (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/the-tortured-logic-of-pro_b_190342.html), torture supporters are willing to do horrific things, things that the Khmer Rouge did, to save just one American life. But they are NOT willing to provide health care to all Americans to save millions of American lives.
Actually, they want to save their own lives, not those of their fellow Americans. Its pretty apparent how the Republicans work, do as I say not as I do. Keeping Americans alive isn’t in the best interest of the Republicans, only keeping them safe by profiting from it is, no matter the trillions of dollars it costs us.
April 23rd, 2009 at 2:11 pmYou seem to be having some trouble getting what I’m saying. Probably my fault. I’ll try make it clearer>
First, yes, i understand what a straw man argument is, and yours fits because you tried to portray us as having suggested that you were irrational because you want rule of law to stand and be clarified. This is a simple argument to knock down because, as I noted such a stance is clearly a rational one. On top of that, none of us made the argument you suggest. Thus, straw man.
What I explained (and you seem to have missed — again, probably my fault) is the reason your argument is not taken at face value: it feels insincere, more like a simplistic attempt to muddy the waters and thus avoid the stark reality of the situation. That situation being, the government of the United States approved the use of torture.
I hope this makes my position more easily understood.
April 23rd, 2009 at 2:14 pmPseudonym Says:
I am sure there are exceptional situations that would require torture. Not just waterboarding but even harsher torture.
Why?
April 23rd, 2009 at 2:21 pmSo what you’re saying is you don’t believe there is any such thing as classified information? Or that there is classified information but you don’t believe it is against the law to release it? And you didn’t know that these torture memos had to be declassified before they could be released. Here’s some basics for you: Classified information
April 23rd, 2009 at 2:26 pmI would love to Bill…
April 23rd, 2009 at 2:41 pm“Torture, my ass.”
Dude, we don’t need to know about your fantasy life.
April 23rd, 2009 at 2:43 pm“Torture, my ass”
I maintain that the comma in the above transcript portion constitutes artistic license.
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Pseudonym Says:
Deal with the consequences if you think it’s so important to torture another human being (even a very evil one) and lower yourself to the level of our enemies.
Exactly. At the very least, if you were going to maintain it was “necessary” against all other evidence, and if you think of yourself as some kind of hero for doing it, then you should be willing to suffer the consequences. And if you’re too much of a bedwetter to even face the legal consequences of your actions, then you’ve got no business keeping me “safe” from anything.
April 23rd, 2009 at 2:48 pmWe have no doubt of that.
You know what they say about people who enjoy inflicting pain?
According to new research, the belief that bullies lash out at others to make themselves feel better may have some truth to it.
Researchers at the University of Chicago found in the new research that un u su ally aggres sive youth may actually gain some enjoyment from inflict ing pain.
What does that say about folks who enjoy watching others inflict pain?
April 23rd, 2009 at 2:49 pmSo the Falafel Pervert Sexual Predator wants his as$ tortured.
The only Torture this moron dishes out is tortured logic.
Fcuk the Republicans
April 23rd, 2009 at 2:51 pmAmerican Patsy Says:
Ask your cohorts. They are the ones who would waterboard anyone with an R after their name if given the chance. What does that say?
That all Republicans are “the worst of the worst” of evil terrorist scum? After all, if they were innocent, they’d have nothing to fear.
Am I doing it right?
April 23rd, 2009 at 3:50 pmI think you did it perfectly, ElBruce.
April 23rd, 2009 at 4:16 pmBrothabill says,
“If someone raped my sister,…”
To use the Conservative semantic argument for a minute; why do you use the word “raped?” Do you mean “Enhanced sexual behavior?”
April 23rd, 2009 at 4:20 pmUsing “enhanced interrogation methods”(Torture) She may have been “begging-for-it” before I was done with her.
Are you saying that she may have been telling me anything to make me stop Tortu…Enhanced interrogating her?
If Torture isn’t Torture, then I suppose you would believe that Rape isn’t Rape?
That’s kinda sad
Simplistic interpretation at best, Patsy. What he did was use the rhetoric of your side “torture victims are terrorist scum, otherwise they wouldn’t be tortured” and turns its “logic” in a different direction (since logic is value-neutral and should presumably reach the same conclusion with similar circumstances), thus illuminating a new and accurate revelation.
In fact what ElBruce did was reveal a deep flaw in what passes for reasoning on the Right side of the torture debate, and exploit it to make you look foolish.
April 23rd, 2009 at 4:43 pmAmerican Patsy Says:
Yes, he played the “2 wrongs make a right” card perfectly…….
As a conservative, you presumably believe that anyone being detained and waterboarded is a terrorist. That’s what Bush promised us. So if Republicans get waterboarded, they must be terrorists. Mind you, I’m not a Republican, so I don’t believe that. But you must.
It’s perfectly true that many of the comments in this thread and others discussing wingnuts disregarding the seriousness of torture express a desire to torture the wingnuts. But they’re just doing the same thing I did. If Bill O’Reilly says it’s not torture, then he presumably wouldn’t mind having it done to him. One isn’t doing anything “wrong” if they do something to someone that that person doesn’t mind having done. Presumably there’s nothing “wrong” with waterboarding only those people who think that waterboarding isn’t that bad.
If you disagree, then you accept that waterboarding is indeed torture.
April 23rd, 2009 at 6:40 pmOh Billy boy, I wish we could torture your ass. And the rest of you to go along with it. My torture is knowing your there, alive and have an audience. But one day you will be gone. And the world will continue to spin without your assistance.
April 23rd, 2009 at 6:52 pmYou are a spot on the American complexion, I’ll give you that much.
April 23rd, 2009 at 7:02 pmWell then, if waterboarding isn’t torture, let’s see O’Reilly put up or shut and offer to be waterboarded himself. Will he be too much of a coward to subject himself to what he finds humor in. I will keep pushing till I can find a way to start a petition drive, that either he allows himself to be waterboarded or shuts his damn mouth on the topic, forever.
April 23rd, 2009 at 10:39 pmJackoff…
April 24th, 2009 at 12:15 amNo thanks, “brothabill.” I’m a liberal, so I don’t torture.
Call up Dick Cheney. He’ll either shoot you in the face or have someone else waterboard you — cuz he’s a pussy, just like you.
April 24th, 2009 at 2:14 amThere is torture, and then there is TORTURE.
Mostly it amounts to who has the POWER and what they are trying to prove with their use of it. Water boarding is not even close to torture in comparison to …pulling out fingernails, or cutting off tongues, stepping on fingers and crushing them, jabbing out eyes – those are torture methods.
And because you need to know, the above comments, slams, obscenities, and threats, etc — has been torture to ME to read. GROW UP! yes, that’s right GROW UP!
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