Gingrich On Whether Waterboarding Is Torture: ‘I Can’t Tell You’
Gingrich On Whether Waterboarding Is Torture: ‘I Can’t Tell You’
On Friday, Fox News’s Greta Van Susteren interviewed former House speaker Newt Gingrich regarding President Obama’s recent release of Bush-era OLC torture memos. Throughout the interview, Gingrich tried to sit on the fence of the torture debate — saying, for example, that “releasing the documents last week was a big mistake” but also saying “I want to see the United States run the risk, at times, of not learning certain things in order to establish a standard for civilization.”
When Van Susteren asked if waterboarding is torture, Gingrich hemmed and hawed. “I think it’s something we shouldn’t do,” he said, but he qualified his statement, adding, “Lawyers I respect a great deal say it is absolutely within the law. Other lawyers say it absolutely is not. I mean, this is a debatable area.” When asked if waterboarding violates international law, Gingrich played dumb:
VAN SUSTEREN: But you said a minute ago that it was torture, waterboarding…
GINGRICH: No, I said it’s not something we should do.
VAN SUSTEREN: OK. Is it torture or not?
GINGRICH: I — I — I think it’s — I can’t tell you.
VAN SUSTEREN: Does it violate the Geneva Convention?
GINGRICH: I honestly don’t know.
Watch it:
Gingrich added, “I think — I think that there — I am exactly where Senator McCain was.” But McCain, a former prisoner of war, has repeatedly said that waterboarding is a “horrible torture technique.” “One is too much. Waterboarding is torture, period,” McCain said last week. Indeed, it is a fact — and not a matter of “debate” — that waterboarding is illegal torture. The interrogation tactic violates both U.S. statute and international treaties to which the U.S. is a signatory.
Perhaps the Bush torture memos are so disturbing that they have gotten even Newt Gingrich reexamining his position on torture. Yet he is still unwilling to fully break with the right-wing on the issue.
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
Exactly where McCain is. Hmmm. Confused?
April 26th, 2009 at 4:06 pmwhy is he still talking? Didn’t he go away for a while?
April 26th, 2009 at 4:08 pmHe should know better! Damn it! Why can’t Mccain summon the balls and do the right thing? It all has to do with his support for the Republican Party. We have too investigate and punish the offender. If we don’t, what does that say to the world? This is just downright depressing.
April 26th, 2009 at 4:11 pmI…I…I…I…I…..uhhh
April 26th, 2009 at 4:11 pmWhich way is the wind blowing today?
April 26th, 2009 at 4:15 pmC’mon. Newtie, pull an honest answer out of your ass.
.
R E M E M B E R:
This man laments the fact that America has not been attacked…
… AGAIN!
.
April 26th, 2009 at 4:18 pmHang on Newt! The republican ship is going down and you’re going down with it. You sadistic, bottom feeding, money grubbing republicans have no answers, no credibility and no substance. If it wasn’t such a shame it would be more hilarious than it already is.
April 26th, 2009 at 4:21 pmNewt for presidense!!
April 26th, 2009 at 4:21 pmNewt — ever hear of the Geneva Conventions? The US signed it. Ever hear of USC that defines torture?
Let’s put in a way that might be easier for you to comprehend (hopefully but not likely):
If someone did it to you, or someone you love, would you consider it barbaric and/or torture? If your answer is yes, then it’s torture.
If your answer is no, or you’re not sure, then have the balls to find out for yourself.
Just another yellow bellied chickenhawk. Shut up and go away.
April 26th, 2009 at 4:26 pmpretty sad when newt gets his ass handed to him by a repuke-friendly reporter at fixed news
April 26th, 2009 at 4:26 pmRead how these guys acquired pertinent information.
April 26th, 2009 at 4:27 pmhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/05/AR2007100502492.html
Newt, you are trying to defend the indefensible. When are you going to realize that?
April 26th, 2009 at 4:29 pmI don’t know why I’m wasting my time typing this, but…
Proud, FDR didn’t have any of them waterboarded, did he? And if he did, please provide proof.
See everyone later.
April 26th, 2009 at 4:30 pmYou all are so unfair to the Newt. He was very busy brushing up on the politics of cow farts this week so he could be the Republican “expert” on greenhouse gases to counter know-it-all Al; he didn’t have time to research such little-known nuances of torture.
The Constant Weader at http://www.RealityChex.com
P.S. This proves Greta van Suspect is meaner to Newt than to Palin — Greta would never ask Gov. Wolfkill a toughy like this. I hate those rare occasions Fox News’ crack investigative reporters don’t exhibit the highest journalistic standards.
April 26th, 2009 at 4:31 pmproud moron:
1)the geneva convention wasn’t signed until after world war 2
2) we are signators of the geneva conventions
3) the geneva conventions states torture (including waterboarding) is a war crime
why are you defending war criminals?
April 26th, 2009 at 4:32 pm” I don’t know”…From the man who knows everything?? Hmmmm…
April 26th, 2009 at 4:33 pmIs some emotional fracture causing Newt’s conscience to finally emerge from being locked away, after all these years of GOP lockstep?
April 26th, 2009 at 4:34 pmi just love assclowns like proud who try to minimize the definiton of waterboarding. hey idiot, waterboarding isn’t “pouring a little water” onto someone. it’s simulating drowning them, one of the side effects being actual drowning to death
April 26th, 2009 at 4:35 pmSpineless Newt.
No guts.
No ballz.
No morals.
And he’s a RePugniScum party leader!!
April 26th, 2009 at 4:36 pmVAN SUSTEREN :
” Does it violate the Geneva Convention”?
GINGRICH:
April 26th, 2009 at 4:37 pm“I honestly don’t know.., but Greta you can ask Joe The Plumber or Ann Coulter, they know a lot about the subject and they’ll be able to help you…” !!!
no proud moron,
April 26th, 2009 at 4:38 pmno one is defending FDR for his actions. however you have no argument since you’re comparing apples to oranges.
Proud Says:
Just as I thought you idiots are just fine with the prison camps FDR used to punish thousands of Japanese Americans who had committed no crime whatsoever, but God forbid we get a little rough with a terrorist. Even O’s sock puppet Gibbs wouldn’t give a straight answer when asked if torture provided valuable information. Please confirm your collective stupidity by endorsing FDR’s prison camps over Bush’s waterboarding.
Progressives here have long gone on record as not endorsing FDR’s internment camps, so please stop making sh!t up. You continuously prove how weak your ideology is because you have to lie about everything, and to ignore the piles of evidence against you.
April 26th, 2009 at 4:44 pm.
Dear Proud,
How proud must one be to stand up for WAR CRIMES?
How proud one must be to stand up for unamerican principles?
How proud one must be to stand up for illegal acts?
How proud one must be to stand up for unreliable tactics?
… The depth of such pride. Are you a Patriot or a coward?
Oh, my bad. You must be a coward since you don’t care for U.S. Law.
.
April 26th, 2009 at 4:45 pmTo # 12 Proud…I’ve been seeing your posts for some time now and I have a question.. What is it that you are proud of? Is it your keen intellect? Your amazing ability to compare apples to oranges? Or maybe it’s your unstoppable need to defend the undefendable?? Either way, good work. This site needs to hear from everyone. Even the ????’s
April 26th, 2009 at 4:45 pm.
Dear proud,
What’s a dolt?
.
April 26th, 2009 at 4:45 pmThis proves that Gingrich is willing to go off of a cliff with the rest of the rethuglican party. Gingrich is supposed to be some ‘religious fanatic.’ He has no morals just like the rest of his rethuglican buddies. To these evil doers it’s not torture if it’s not done to non-white christians. If there’s a hell, Gingrich can go there with the rest of the Bush Crime Family.
April 26th, 2009 at 4:45 pmI have just recently become aware of this site, and I am appalled at how the writers misrepresent and selectively quote people they dislike out of context. This is just another form of lying and promoting false propaganda.
McCain has gone on the record saying that waterboarding is torture. His opinion means a lot, because he is the only person in this debate who has actually been tortured. Having said that, if Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was actually waterboarded “183 times” as alleged, either he is one tough dude, or it is not nearly as bad as everyone thinks. I can simulate waterboarding in my bathtub. There are even degrees of waterboarding. (Not quite the same as being decapitated, would everyone agree?!). (Ask McCain if he would rather be waterboarded, or have his shoulders and arms permanently deformed!).
The point is that it would be unwise for Gingrich to go on record about whether waterboarding is “torture”, even though McCain has, because he simply doesn’t know everything about how this techniqe was applied in order to make a final judgment, and neither do we! It is a gray area. Perhaps dark gray, but certainly not black and white like some of you arrogant, rush-to-judgment Bush-derangement sufferers want to believe.
April 26th, 2009 at 4:45 pmHow does a man live to such a ripe old age, and yet still not posses the simple moral clarity required to know right from wrong?
April 26th, 2009 at 4:46 pmYet he [Gingrich] is still unwilling to fully break with the right-wing on the issue.
Gingrich is the right wing. Geez!
April 26th, 2009 at 4:48 pmLike a cat on a hot tin roof, Newt can’t tap dance fast enough. Now he’s caught in an intellectual box either denying reality or defending torture. teehee, he’ll keep on talking, we’ll keep on videotaping!
April 26th, 2009 at 4:49 pmdear phillip,
April 26th, 2009 at 4:49 pmit’s an easy concept to understand. according to the geneva conventions, of which we are signators, it is a war crime to waterboard. there aren’t any “gray areas” it’s a war crime plain and simple.
.
Dear Philip50,
What makes torture legal?
.
April 26th, 2009 at 4:51 pmPhilip50 Says:
The point is that it would be unwise for Gingrich to go on record about whether waterboarding is “torture”, even though McCain has, because he simply doesn’t know everything about how this techniqe was applied in order to make a final judgment, and neither do we! It is a gray area. Perhaps dark gray, but certainly not black and white like some of you arrogant, rush-to-judgment Bush-derangement sufferers want to believe.
We’re arrogant?
Waterboarding is torture, period. No gray areas about it.
April 26th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
3den güzel oyunlar
April 26th, 2009 at 4:53 pmand by they way, phillip:
April 26th, 2009 at 4:53 pmif waterboarding is as effective as deadeye dick cheney would have us believe why would someone have to be waterboarded 183 times to get information from them?
look everyone! proud moron strikes back with an oldie but goodie
April 26th, 2009 at 4:58 pm“you idiots on the left have been spitting on the US for years “. another urban myth diproven by the fact it was a REPUBLICAN administration that tortured thus tarnishing all this country stands for.
Philip50 Says:
I’ve recently come to realize that you Bushies are morally bankrupt. Torture is wrong, it’s against the law. That’s a fact. You’re in denial – face reality. We’ve had nearly 8 years of false propaganda from The Bush Crime Family. The facts have been laid out in front of us with more to come. There’s no rush to judgement. The memos are in black and white and all 2000 pictures of torture will be live and in living color for all the world to see.
April 26th, 2009 at 4:58 pmI love how the right wingers all feign legal ignorance when it comes to war crimes and other atrocities. Waterboarding is torture on the face of it and is explicitly banned by the Geneva Conventions among other treaties. It is beyond shocking that someone as knowledgeable as Pr. Gingrich hasn’t done a little research on this issue.
The Geneva Conventions holds that captured combatants must be protected against all acts of violence or reprisal. They are not difficult to understand.
April 26th, 2009 at 4:59 pmHi Proud…
April 26th, 2009 at 5:00 pm.
Dear proud,
The mere fact that you disrespect US Law is evidence enough that you’re not an American Patriot.
You would have made Hitler Proud.
.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:00 pmProud (of ignorance)
re: Japanese internment. It was wrong, we investigated, we’ve apologized, we’ve made reparations to the victims.
Need a link??
http://library.thinkquest.org/trio/TTQ04160/Complete%20Site/aftermath/reparations.htm
Now what have you done about torture?
April 26th, 2009 at 5:00 pmIn any case, I suppose all Newt wants to talk about is the vast conspiracy to protect the environment.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:00 pmTo: Proud or shall I say false pride.
Any cop, special agent, or FBI interrogator with half a brain cell knows that torture first is illegal and second that it doesn’t work. Interrogation is an art and it takes years of experience to excel at it. In order for criminals and terrorists to open up and tell the truth, it takes time and patience, every professional book on interrogation and any cop will tell you that confessions are obtained by gaining the suspect’s trust. I’m sure it would work on idiots like yourself, who on occasion do something stupid and break the law.
If a law enforcement officer used torture or any other means deemed appropriate under the cheney/bush administration, the following scenerio would occur:
1. Any statements by the suspect would be thrown out of court, because the confession was obtained illegally.
2. Any prosecutor in this country would drop all charges against the suspect and he would be released.
3. The law enforcement officer would be arrested and subsequently convicted for the crime of torture, and he or she would go to prison.
4. The former law enforcement officer would be sued civilly by the suspect and the Civil Right Division of the Dept. of Justice, and he or she would lose everything of value that they ever owned.
The fact that people like yourself believe that torture works is because you watch too much television and don’t read. That’s all there is to it!
Rick
Former undercover narcotics officer, deep undercover capacity.
Deputy Sheriff for a sheriff’s department.
Police Officer for a city of over 100,000 citizens.
14 years, 7 months and 19 days. That was a time when I was young and idealistic.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:01 pmProud says: O Max you idiots on the left have been spitting on the US for years
Lair! you and your ilk have been spitting on MY country for years. You ignored warnings that bin laden was going to attack us, you created domestic terrorists like McVie and Rudholf, trample the constitution, you torture children, You support the right by that idiot in Pittsburgh to kill police, and now you whine that the left hates america? You have to reach back 70 years to find an example to complain about. WheN. Proud is scum.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:01 pm.
Dear Proud,
Where’s your feigned outrage at NOT apologizing to the Japanese for their prosecution for their use of whaterboarding?
.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:02 pmBush broke the law and proud is proud of it. Law and Order party my ass.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:02 pmyet again, Proud moron is getting his ass handed to him on a silver platter from all directions and all he can do is grab his cheeks and say “thank you sir, may i have another” while trying to convince us he’s getting a chuckle at our expense.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:03 pmVAN SUSTEREN: Does it violate the Geneva Convention?
GINGRICH: I honestly don’t know.
That exchange alone disqualifies Gingrich from ever running for President. If he doesn’t know what the Geneva Convention is all about, he’s not qualified.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:05 pmBozo,
April 26th, 2009 at 5:05 pmThe BDSM crowd would be Proud to have him.
All Newton the Fig needs is a little personal demonstration.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:08 pmGINGRICH: I honestly don’t know.
Amazing, Gingrich is willing to jump out of the window with the rest of the GOPers defending torture. I hope his a$$ is cushioned for the fall.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:11 pmIsn’t it time to ask these self-absorbed twits to do a little homework before they go a public media outlet and just lie – full faced – to anyone that happens to be listening??
Someone needs to say it to their faces – NEWT IS A LIAR AND A FOOL.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:12 pmProud Says:
——————————————————————————–
I demand an investigation into the false imprisonment of thousands of US citizens who were forced into prison camps eventhough they had committed no crime. My mistake, that atrocity was committed by a Democrat president. I am sure no one called for FDR to be tried as a war criminal. But since Bush had a little water poured on a few terrorists he is a criminal, FDR forces thousands of innocent Americans into prison camps, he is a hero. The complete and utter hypocricy of the Dems, been happening for years no chance it will ever end.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
proud, I can’t understand where you are coming from. No Democrat has ever tried to defend FDR’s decision to intern Japanese. Considering the gravity of the times, it’s amazing more mistakes were not made. Sum total, FDR is an American icon, but not without blemish.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:12 pmThe present day situation is a little different. The Cheney/Bush administration collaborated to reshape (pervert) law to cover interrogation techniques that were clearly torture. The Republicans Party is scrambling to defend the practices.
The interesting observation is the rational being used to defend the perversion of the law. Both McCain and Gingrich were stammering and mincing words today in defense of aspects of the torture, but I think the laws are perfectly clear. That is why the various arguments keep falling apart. Torture is torture, you don’t play games, you don’t play “what if scenarios”. The Cheney/Bush Whitehouse requested and received a great deal of latitude during the Post 911 era. They abused this power and they need to answer for it.
Cheney/Bush have left this country with a legacy, we are seeing it unfold and it is ugly.
.
All I know is that in America, you can still violate the Fourth, Fifth and Eighth Amendment and do so WITH impunity.
Because nothing screams “Patriot” like cheer leading for the continued violation of long established laws…
… YES Proud?
.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:12 pmGotta LOVE Proud . . . seem no Republican cause, lie or crime is worth condemning . . . makes ME proud that in this great country, low information chickenhawks have access to free speech and the ability to expose their educational and critical thinking deficiencies . . .
P.S. Last I hear that “Democrat FDR” did not order any waterboarding OR torture of any Japanese-Americans . . . and I thought that Newyt had given up his adultrus ways and embrcaed the Catholic Church and the righteous Christian way . .
Is crucifixion a stress position?
April 26th, 2009 at 5:13 pmProud Says:
Just as I thought you idiots are just fine with the prison camps FDR used to punish thousands of Japanese Americans who had committed no crime whatsoever….
1) No one is “fine” with what FDR did.
2) How was DHS rounding up thousands of Muslims after 911 and holding them indefinitely and hidden to the point where even their families didn’t know if they were alive, any different than what FDR did.
3) Every hear the phrase “two wrongs don’t make a right”?
4) You really are an idiot.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:13 pmwaterboarding is TORTURE period they are no A.A.A. about it NEWT please let these people go away people like NEWT, DICK CHENNEY, KARL ROVE, DANA PERINO, GO AWAY PLEASE OF I FORGOT ANOTHER ONE BOEHNER
April 26th, 2009 at 5:13 pmMcClatchey News:
The Army general who led the investigation into prisoner abuse at Iraq’s Abu Ghraib prison accused the Bush administration Wednesday of committing “war crimes” and called for those responsible to be held to account.
The remarks by Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba, who’s now retired, came in a new report that found that U.S. personnel tortured and abused detainees in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, using beatings, electrical shocks, sexual humiliation and other cruel practices.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:14 pmIf Gingrich doesn’t know tell him to ask Conservative Author Christopher Hitchins, who shilled for the Iraq war, Bush, and waterboarding.
Until he tried it.
Then he wrote an article in Vanity Fair called “YES, IT’S TORTURE”.
And if Newt is man enough to go on TV shilling for it, then he should be man enough like Chris Hitchen’s was, and try it.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:14 pmI have posted on various sites, but this is by far the most intellectually light-weight site I have seen. Most of the posts are shallow bash and smear. This site is nearly devoid of intellectual honesty or open-mindedness. But, it sure is fun to get you Bush-haters all riled up!
P. S. There is not a person on here, that if his family were in imminent peril, would not waterboard someone to save them…or worse! You may be alive today to express your nonsense because someone put a little fear in the Al Qaeda low-lifes who plotted mass murder against us!
P. P. S. The terrorists that were allegedly waterboarded do not fall under the Geneva Convention.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:15 pmProud,
April 26th, 2009 at 5:17 pmThe WWII internment of the Nisei was reprehensible. It should never have happened. We’ve been down this road before with this debate and it is a closed subject as far as I and many others on this blog are concerned. Now, I have a question for you to answer:
We prosecuted, found gulity, and excecuted Japanese War Criminals for Waterboarding American POWs during the War. Since we (the United States) established that Waterboarding was indeed torture, how can you defend it or the Bush Officials who advocated and approved of the practice as well as other illeagle methods of iterrogation?
I await your answer. Don’t be shy.
Hi Philip50
April 26th, 2009 at 5:17 pmShow me how bright you think you are?
I doubt torturing you will show your self proclaimed wiseness…
April 26th, 2009 at 5:17 pmHey Proud (willfully ignorant is more like it) read post number 46 and the type a reply about your experience in interviewing and interrogating criminal suspects including terrorists.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:17 pmPhilip 50 says:
April 26th, 2009 at 5:17 pmSame question for you Phil.
“The terrorists that were allegedly waterboarded do not fall under the Geneva Convention.”
really, phillip. according to whom.
and since we’re on the subject of “intellectually lightweight”, phillip why didn’t you answer the question i posed to you earlier:
if waterboarding is such an effective method of gaining information as your tin idol 43 would have us believe, why would anyone have to be waterboarded 183 times?
April 26th, 2009 at 5:18 pmIsn’t Gingrich a former HISTORY PROFESSOR ? Did he skip the
chapter where we EXICUTED Japanese soldiers convicted of WATERBOARDING American POWs ?
And he considers himself a leader of the banana republicans.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:19 pmPhillip50 stop watching 24 and other shows on television…you do know that they are fiction! Right?
April 26th, 2009 at 5:20 pmPhilip50
April 26th, 2009 at 5:20 pmAre you smarter than these folks too?
http://explore.georgetown.edu/news/?ID=20647
.
Shorter Philip50: “Now stand back and watch me hit this shot.”
Dear Philip50,
Now that’s not fair…
… We were intellectual before you showed up!
.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:21 pmdbadass,
April 26th, 2009 at 5:21 pmphillip is so smart, it’s beneath him to answer a valid question asked by lil ole me.
Philip50 Says:
The point is that it would be unwise for Gingrich to go on record about whether waterboarding is “torture”, even though McCain has, because he simply doesn’t know everything about how this techniqe was applied in order to make a final judgment, and neither do we! It is a gray area. Perhaps dark gray, but certainly not black and white like some of you arrogant, rush-to-judgment Bush-derangement sufferers want to believe.
So, was it a “grey area” back when we tried and convicted a Japanese soldier for waterboarding and American soldier?
April 26th, 2009 at 5:21 pmPhilip50 Says:
I have posted on various sites, but this is by far the most intellectually light-weight site I have seen. Most of the posts are shallow bash and smear.
______________
Whoa… the inherent level of irony here is… simply breath taking.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:23 pmI don’t take orders for clowns, BOZO.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:23 pmthen how do you explain the bush year, phill?
April 26th, 2009 at 5:24 pmPhilip50 Says:
P. S. There is not a person on here, that if his family were in imminent peril, would not waterboard someone to save them…or worse! You may be alive today to express your nonsense because someone put a little fear in the Al Qaeda low-lifes who plotted mass murder against us!
I am one. I would not want my country to commit the crime of torture in my name.
Now, answer this question for us.
What would you think if your son or daughter was captured in Iran and they were waterboarded, or some other form of torture was used on them? Would you think that is OK?
April 26th, 2009 at 5:24 pmBozo,
We’re the intellectuals that Philip50 hates.
He’ll never answer directly. Just spew more post and runs.
p.s.
Speaking of not liking intellectuals…
… Didn’t Hitler give good speeches, too?
.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:25 pmphil -
wrong on so many points . . . I am amused – you fancy yourself a mighty “intellectual” yet post the most banal fact less banter that fall apart under examination faster than Bush’s “war record” . . .
“Terrorist” don’t fall under Geneva or American jurisprudence? So should we just refrain from “capture” and just execute on the spot or just assume that these “people” can be abused in any fashion desired . . . or maybe sold as slaves like Roman booty?!!
oh, and next time a family friend who actually IS defending our nation is captured AND tortured, you can just nod your head and say “those are the breaks in war, that’s why I’m staying in mom’s basement . . . “
April 26th, 2009 at 5:26 pmPhilip50 Says:
I don’t take orders for clowns, BOZO.
You also don’t answer questions that are put to you. In my book that makes you an intellectual lightweight. People who can’t answer questions are either intellectually bankrupt or a coward.
So, prove to us you are not a lightweight and answer the question I asked in #78.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:26 pmdbadass,
phillip is so smart, it’s beneath him to answer a valid question asked by lil ole me.
–
April 26th, 2009 at 5:26 pmSeems so. Well other than the smart part…
“I don’t take orders for clowns, BOZO.”
too bad phill because i’d love a cheeseburger a side of fries and a diet coke.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:26 pmOk, try answering my question in 79. Why does this site renumber posts?
April 26th, 2009 at 5:27 pmCome on Phil show me them smarts of yours. I’ll fillet you pompous false gravitas in a heartbeat…
April 26th, 2009 at 5:27 pmI see that GNewt crawled out of the toilet to do another interview. Man, I wish I got paid to be an idiot on the TV machine!
I think one of two things here:
1) FUX Noise was trying the “hard line” approach to give the impression that they are asking the REALLY hard questions to the guests. So, NOW they can say, “did you SEE how HARD we were on the Gnewty about torture?!?! See! That’s REAL NEWS!
2) They wanted Gnewt to say, “No, it’s not torture.”
Either way, they all Suck donkey d!ck.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:28 pmpoor phill, getting outsmarted by a clown with the simple question.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:28 pmBozo The Neocootiebug Says:
dbadass,
phillip is so smart, it’s beneath him to answer a valid question asked by lil ole me.
It’s not “beneath” him to answer questions. It’s simply impossible for him to answer questions. Because if he were to be honest in his answers, it would shoot all his arguments all to hell.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:29 pmFunny how the wingtard trolls turn tail and run when any of us pose difficult (for them) questions to answer.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:30 pmBilbo @#79,
… Only if it is used to coerce unreliable information about links between al-CIA-duh and Iraq?
.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:32 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
TP has quickly become a one issue site — terrorists rights.
_____________
Oh BS… this is such a hot button topic right now, how can you avoid it?
You Google “torture” + “US” you get 9 MILLION hits.
You need to try much, much harder if you hope to appear “relevant” or “controversial”, little troll.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:32 pmWow, so many questions, so little time. You guys really get your panties in a wad when challenged, don’t you?
My answer to Bilbo who would not even resort to waterboarding to save his family: I am glad I am NOT related to you. I would fight with everything in me to save my family, friends, or country.
To Jess: Where to begin to state the obvious?! Our service personnel do fall under the protections of the Geneva Convention when they fight according to the rules of war. Further, they are not terrorists who target civilians like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed et. al. See the difference?
April 26th, 2009 at 5:34 pmWow, so many questions, so little time. You guys really get your panties in a wad when challenged, don’t you?
–
April 26th, 2009 at 5:35 pmYou’d first have to be a challenge…
89 is just fluff…
April 26th, 2009 at 5:35 pm.
Hey everyone,
Philip50 thinks it’s cool to torture his family!
.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:36 pmConservativeForProgress Says:
“TP has quickly become a one issue site — terrorists rights.”
i suppose it won’t be hard for you to prove this statement. you know, a letter of conviction against one of these detainees, a court date…anything other than what you think?
April 26th, 2009 at 5:36 pm.
Dear Philip50,
I asked a simple question a while ago…
… Maybe you missed it, may you’re just yellow -
What makes torture legal?
.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:38 pmPhil, did you watch Ransom on television the other night?
Please Wise Philip, old Sport! Name one real life occasion where torture saved the life of someone.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:39 pmMax Anax junius -1 Says:
“Hey everyone,
Philip50 thinks it’s cool to torture his family!”
he’s been torturing me by making me watch his interpretive dance around the questions posed to him.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:39 pmPhilip50 Says: Your statement is pure BS – speak for yourself.
P. S. There is not a person on here…
I don’t hate Bush – I just hate what he’s done to our country. The Bush crime family almost destroyed our credability in the world when they allowed torture and tried to cover it up. You have bought into the lies that Bush & Co sold you. Keep sipping the poisonous Kool-Aid – your ignorance is glaring!
April 26th, 2009 at 5:40 pmonly cowards think America is too weak to defeat terrorists without resorting to torture and war
that fact proves that the GOP is the party of cowards
April 26th, 2009 at 5:40 pmThe wingnuts appear to be thinking. Hope they can reply to just one of the points listed. Maybe they are checking their playbook for answers. I hope the wingnuts can think for themselves. Man if they’ve been leading us on. Come on, one well thought out arguement for me.
waiting, flight
April 26th, 2009 at 5:40 pmI think Philip50 is afraid…
April 26th, 2009 at 5:41 pm50 must be his IQ
April 26th, 2009 at 5:43 pmhey phill,
April 26th, 2009 at 5:43 pmcan you link us to a single article by a reputable source (law school, supreme court justice) proving those detained during “the war on terror” are not covered by the geneva conventions.
or is this, once again, your opinion>?
Bozo,
That’s just a cheep critique. The dude has no soul, no rhythm, no clue. His stumbles are not dance moves but instead mere dislocated spats of consciousness fighting for some form of sanity. Merce Cunningham would be ashamed!
.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:43 pmI have posted on various sites, but this is by far the most intellectually light-weight site I have seen.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:44 pmIt’s only when you’re around… I can prove it!!
Has Philip50 left for various sites?
April 26th, 2009 at 5:44 pmPhilip50 Says:
My answer to Bilbo who would not even resort to waterboarding to save his family: I am glad I am NOT related to you. I would fight with everything in me to save my family, friends, or country.
You didn’t answer my question. Would it be OK with you if Iran tortured your son or daughter? It’s a pretty simple yes/no answer.
To Jess: Where to begin to state the obvious?! Our service personnel do fall under the protections of the Geneva Convention when they fight according to the rules of war. Further, they are not terrorists who target civilians like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed et. al. See the difference?
Please explain to us why our soldiers fall under the Geneva conventions and the prisoners we have in captivity don’t?
Also, what “rules of war” are the “terrorists” fighting under? What “war” is it? And please don’t say “the war on terror” because that does not fit under the definition of war.
As far as our soldiers not “targeting civilians”, I wonder what all the families of those who were “collateral damage” in Iraq think about that.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:44 pmPhilip, what kind of father are you that your family is in imminent peril?
April 26th, 2009 at 5:44 pmi think phillip left for freeperville. it’s his night to be on his knees in the middle of the anti-american bukake session over there.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:46 pmPhilip50 Says:
You’re really dull. The torture that Bush allowed wasn’t about protecting families or America. It was used to extract a false confession that would give Bush an excuse to invade Iraq.
http://www.truthout.org/article/false-confessions-under-torture-led-bush-link-iraq-and-al-qaeda
April 26th, 2009 at 5:47 pmPhilip, I bet you have 50 really violent revenge fantasies against Muslims holding your children, while you dicker on Daily Kos.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:47 pmThey insist upon using semantics as a defense.
Waterboarding and other treatments have been deemed torture worldwide. Persons committing these crimes have been prosecuted and sometimes executed.
Newt used to teach history – he knows better – but like most repugs, his ideology overwhelms his thought process. His ethics are of low degree in the first place, so it doesn’t take much for him to sink.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:47 pmFor purely political purposes. Just like the Nazis who went along with Hitler’s crap!
I wish these namby-pamby liberal commentators would come down a little harder on those loopy Wingnuts and semi-fascists.
====
April 26th, 2009 at 5:48 pmI tell you what, everyone on here answer every one of my questions honestly and directly, and I will return the favor. The manipulation techniques, including all insulting remarks, don’t cut it. Talk about torture. Reading the idiocy expressed on here has got to be worse than waterboarding.
Incidentally, waterboarding is a part of training for members of our armed forces. It is not exactly sodomizing someone or cutting off fingers. Is it torture, or simply harsh interrogation? I think reasonable people can discuss that. It definitely would depend on the exact circumstances. And, remember, the people that were allegedly subjected to this were TERRORISTS who potentially held information that could result in catestrophic loss of U. S. lives! Some of you have lost all sense of perspective here.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:49 pmBozo @#107,
April 26th, 2009 at 5:50 pmIf we leave Judge Bybee in for long, we just may see such an opinion.
.
Dear Proud,
… Because the president is not the “DECIDER”.
.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:51 pmThe internment of Japanese Americans in WWII is a national disgrace and we are ashamed of the treatment to the point that recently, reparations were made to the families.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:53 pmTo compare that, however, to torturing persons, many of whom were in the wrong place at the wrong time, in the hopes of extracting wrong information so as to bolster their case to start an illegal war is reprehensible, unforgiveable, and punishable.
We admit to waterboarding three individuals — there hasn’t been much said about other torture methods that were applied to others – yet we know that some died.
.
Dear Philip50,
While the SERE program trains service members to withstand these extreme torture techniques, it also was not meant to institutionalize torture techniques into our interrogation methods.
But since you’re not a frequent flyer…
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/24/2002-jpra-torture/
Oops,
you lose.
.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:54 pmI know this site refuses to traffic in truth
April 26th, 2009 at 5:55 pm—
Did you just make that up or can you defend the statement?
I tell you what, everyone on here answer every one of my questions honestly and directly, and I will return the favor. The manipulation techniques, including all insulting remarks, don’t cut it.
—Ask away pretend genius…
April 26th, 2009 at 5:56 pmProud says@ 119.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:56 pmWe have Rule of Law in the US. That means that any decisions concerning prosecutions will be made by the DOJ and Attorney General Eric Holder. It is not for the President to decide that. He CANdirect the DOJ to invetigate the posibility of doing so but, ultimatly it is for the AG to decide.
.
Dear Proud,
The TORTURE “buck” stops with the scum that instituted that illegal program.
.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:56 pmPerhaps President Obama is smart enough to let the release of even more incendiary information to occur to whip up the public furor even more. Perhaps when information about wiretaps on GOP members of Congress is made public the GOPers will call for investigations.
Hey who knows, maybe they were tracking your communications too, Mr. Proud.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:57 pmPerhaps since Philip50 just found this site, he will find it unlikeable and go away.
April 26th, 2009 at 5:59 pmHe fails to understand the world accepted definitions of torture that the US has agreed to. Apparently, he believes it is torture when it is applied to us or our allies but when we apply it, we have good reason, therefore it must be OK.
G’bye Phil.
Hey proud and philip50:
It’s up to AG Holder to decide who gets prosecuted for the torture war crimes. Since you 2 nitwits are so much smarter – you should’ve known this.
Hey trolls:
Ed Rollins Gives Obama an ‘A’ For Keeping the Country Safe!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/26/ed-rollins-gives-obama-an_n_191492.html
April 26th, 2009 at 5:59 pmWhy are we attempting to educate trolls?
April 26th, 2009 at 5:59 pmTo Bilbo and all others who doubt what I said about the rights of terrorists, from no other than Obama’s Attorney General:
http://bartonbulletin.wordpress.com/2009/04/23/eric-holder-terrorist-detainees-dont-fall-under-geneva-conventions/
April 26th, 2009 at 6:00 pm.
Dear Proud,
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/24/2002-jpra-torture/
TORTURE DOESN’T WORK!
TORTURE IS UNRELIABLE!
.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:00 pmeducate trolls?
April 26th, 2009 at 6:00 pmI am just playing with them. It is sort of a catch and release sort of deal…
Vituperation,
NCLB, maybe?
.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:00 pm“Incidentally, waterboarding is a part of training for members of our armed forces.”
really phillip? according to whom? ;ast time i checked waterboarding was in direct violation of the military code of conduct.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:01 pmOkay, bad ass, show me in the Geneva Convention where it mentions “waterboarding”.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:03 pmSo Philip50 are you avoiding this? I think we both know the answer to that now don’t we….
http://explore.georgetown.edu/news/?ID=20647
April 26th, 2009 at 6:04 pmNewt knows waterboarding is torture. He’s afraid of being criticized by Limpballs and other republicans. IMHO, this is just stalling on the part of republicans until they get their talking points from Drudge. They’re already trying out their weak argument that dems in congress could have challenged the legality of torture without acknowledging that GWB had a gag order on any kind of dissent of his Iraq policies that covered the entire country. He and his cronies meant to have their way, and if it meant engaging in further illegal behaviors to prevent any dissent, they did it. Furthermore, they are actually proud of what they did. That’s why Darth Vader has been running his mouth as often as he can lately. I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m going to do everything within my power to get his ass prosecuted, along with all the others who had the audacity to violate American and international law to cover their mistakes, and then claim they did it to make us safe. Cheney and the others know what’s possibly ahead for them so now they want to rewrite history. A pox on all of them. A very virulent form scientifically designed to cause the most havoc to their already fragile, non-processing brains. Of course the pox component is just a dream. But a girl can dream, can’t she?
April 26th, 2009 at 6:05 pmHussein: your remarks are just stupid.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:05 pmProud says he would fight with everything to save his country — but if he destroys everything his country stands for in the process, that is apparently OK with him.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:05 pmDoes Hussein equate our school children with terrorists?
April 26th, 2009 at 6:06 pmphill,
perhaps “three’s a charm” with you:
if waterboarding is as effective as the last administration claimed, why was it neccessary to waterboard someone 183 times?
April 26th, 2009 at 6:06 pmgreenpagan Says:
I wish these namby-pamby liberal commentators would come down a little harder on those loopy Wingnuts and semi-fascists.
And what liberal commentators would those be? The only liberal commentators on TV today are Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:07 pmproud,
April 26th, 2009 at 6:08 pmperhaps we should take a collection up for a summer school civics class for you. the judicial branch in our democracy runs independently from the executive. it’s called “checks and balances”. then again, you are a big supporter of the previous administration and their unabashed power grab.
Hussein: “Show me the Geneva Convention where it mentions ripping off limbs.”
Just my point. If not specifically mentioned, there COULD be reasonable debate, not about your example, which is a slam dunk answer. Waterboarding is a little less drastic than “ripping off limbs”, would you not agree?!
April 26th, 2009 at 6:09 pmPhilip50 Says: My remarks are just stupid.
You trolls are thoroughly entertaining with your ignorance.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:09 pmDo you visit TP thinking you’ll convert some of us to your twisted logic regarding torture?
How comw when Philip50 is called out on his clims to intelligence superior to others, he offers up no defense? I think his bravado is bs on I doubt he will challenge me on this topic…
April 26th, 2009 at 6:10 pm.
Dear Philip50,
WHAT MADE TORTURE LEGAL?
… or do you prefer to not answer intellectual questions?
.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:10 pmPhillip at #29.
Thanks for the comment. I feel so much better knowing we are slightly less cruel than the VC and the “beheaders.”
Personally, I would prefer to be compared to those with more lofty accomplishments and integrity.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:10 pmLike I said BOZO, either he was one tough dude, or waterboarding was not nearly as bad as you wimps want it to seem to everyone now that you are second-guessing everyone who protected your sorry butt!
April 26th, 2009 at 6:10 pmbut phill, we were told it was highly effective. you know, the “ticking time bomb” scenario and all.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:11 pmProud says @ 148:
April 26th, 2009 at 6:11 pmWrong, again Proud.
Why? Simple. By taking the decision out of the AG’s hands Obama would be opening himself up to a confrontation with the Supreme Court. He can’t do that. The case law for that dates to the Watergate Scandal when the SCOTUS ruled against Nixon on matters related to what you would love for Obama to attempt.
Proud Says:
I know this site refuses to traffic in truth, but let me ask a question. Why hasn’t your dear leader made a decision on the torture prosecutions?
Because they are still gathering evidence? There are thousands and thousands of documents they need to go through. In the meantime the DOJ is understaffed because the Republicans keep throwing up roadblocks to Obama’s nominations.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:11 pmPhilip50:
April 26th, 2009 at 6:12 pmHow was anyone’s butt protected. Please be specific…
phill,
April 26th, 2009 at 6:13 pmhow exactly did you “protect my sorry butt”
did you serve in the military?
When will Proud and Philip50 volunteer to be waterboarded, in order to prove to us it’s not torture?
You two have got the talking done, and let’s see some action.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:13 pmHussein: “You don’t have a point. That’s obvious. The Geneva Convention doesn’t mention dismemberment, so using your perverse “logic” it is acceptable. Well done, terrorist teagbag redneck.”
Hussein, you obviously lack basic logic skills. How can you equate dismemberment with waterboarding?! No comparison. Would you apply the same logic to keeping the room temperature to cool and subjecting a terrorist prisoner to discomfort as a result?!
April 26th, 2009 at 6:13 pmVituperation Toxicity,
April 26th, 2009 at 6:14 pmphill’s too busy getting teabagged to be waterboarded. perhaps at a later date
Proud Says:
——————————————————————————–
I know this site refuses to traffic in truth, but let me ask a question. Why hasn’t your dear leader made a decision on the torture prosecutions? He can say yes or no tomorrow, he doesn’t need Holder to make the call, he doesn’t need a house committee to make the decision. As Truman was fond of saying “The buck stops here” He claims to be a great constitutional scholar so this should be easy for him. What is he so afraid of? Maybe torture worked, Oh my wouldn’t that be a let down for you wingnuts. Or maybe he wants to use torture in the future. I just wonder why he can’t grow a pair and make a decision. Anyone want to provide an answer.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Proud, I believe he has made a decision! This is not his call.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:15 pmThe reason this has become an issue is the oversight, and clearly this was never practiced during the Cheney/Bush years. This is an issue for congress and if needed a special prosecutor. Obama is clearly not responsible for the failed oversight of the previous administration.
Obama has enough to clean.
phill,
April 26th, 2009 at 6:15 pmcan you provide specific examples from well respected sources stating torturing detainees have made this world safer?
phill,
can you provide specific examples from well respected sources stating torturing detainees have made this world safer?
–
April 26th, 2009 at 6:17 pmNo and he won’t but he might post some lame ass inconclusive crap if we are lucky. Philip is a year old midlife wannabee tough guy who watched too much 24 and assorted other action movies as far as I can tell
I have come to the conclusion that the GOP followers are in denial and are indeed addicted to the GOP and its values no matter how out-of-touch they are. This is classified as insanity. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. To our GOP trolls, do not fret for I have a solution for you:
GOP-aholics Anonyms and The 12-steps to recovery:
1. We admitted that we were powerless over LIES-that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Democrat greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of a Democrat as we understood them.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to a Democrat and to ourselves the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have A Democrat remove all of these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked A Democrat to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all the persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with A Democrat as we understood them, asking only for knowledge of their will for us and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a political awakening as a result of these Steps, we tried to carry this message to GOP- aholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
Work these steps in ORDER. When you get to step 12, go back and do them all over again – forever until you die.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:18 pmPerhaps ProudToBeAnIdiot would go in this direction;
Waterboarding, when done by filthy Japs(you know, brown people, or yellowish brown maybe) is defiintely torture. But when done by white people to brown people, a totally different thing, especially since it may, but usually doesn’t result in any actionable intel.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:18 pmRight Proudy?
what a complete and total dumb ass.
it is so much fun watching the repukes in quicksand.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:19 pm.
Dear Philip50,
No answer? I’ve asked several times already…
… Maybe you’re too busy googling for the answer.
.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:19 pmPhilip is a 50 year old midlife wannabee tough guy
Damn I am having keyboarding issues this day…
April 26th, 2009 at 6:20 pmMax says: “WHAT MADE TORTURE LEGAL?
My opinion is that: TORTURE IS ILLEGAL.
Now if we could all only agree on what constitutes torture. Furthermore, if we could all be honest we would all do something illegal if there were an overwhelmingly higher principle than the law we are breaking. Classic example, breaking traffic laws to get a loved-one to the hospital. Will someone just be honest about that?!
April 26th, 2009 at 6:20 pmWe must prosecute these guys for war crimes. It is the only way our country can cleanse it’s soul. We executed the Japanese for the same thing. Why is this difficult? I don’t understand how people can defend this.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:20 pmHussein at 168: It was Clinton who failed to stop Osama when he had the chance, not Bush. Get your facts straight.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:22 pmVituperation Toxicity Says:
When will Proud and Philip50 volunteer to be waterboarded, in order to prove to us it’s not torture?
You two have got the talking done, and let’s see some action.
They would never do it. Their idol Sean Hannity said on his show that he would be waterboarded for charity. Keith Olbermann said he would put up $1,000 per minute for Hannity to be waterboarded. The response to this offer from Hannity……crickets……
April 26th, 2009 at 6:23 pmIncidentally, waterboarding is a part of training for members of our armed forces. It is not exactly sodomizing someone or cutting off fingers. Is it torture, or simply harsh interrogation? I think reasonable people can discuss that. It definitely would depend on the exact circumstances. And, remember, the people that were allegedly subjected to this were TERRORISTS who potentially held information that could result in catestrophic loss of U. S. lives! Some of you have lost all sense of perspective here.
—–
There is a huge difference between the training recieved in SERE and actually being waterboarded. Those being trained had the benefit of hand signals to stop it, trained doctors on site and they knew it would stop. The detainees most likely had no precautions.
They waterboarded them to prove a non existant link for a BS war not because they were terrorists. You know there are innocent men locked in Gitmo. It’s people like you that take one look at someone and suspect some wrong doing that give us a bad name. They did not save lives, they tried to cover their asses period.
Just because we don’t agree with you and refute your points doesn’t mean we are lacking intelligence. You just must be one of those people who always has to be right.
I’d like to see you get waterboarded and then say it’s just “harsh interrogation”.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:24 pm.
So Philip50,
When America prosecuted and executed Japanese servece members for their use of watertorture, was America wrong?
.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:24 pm“BinLladen determined to strike US”. Ring any bells?
April 26th, 2009 at 6:25 pmHey Philip! Don’t pull that shit on us again! Bush wasn’t interested, remember? The Bush Administration had recieved several warnings, and Bush ignored them all.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:25 pmPhilip50 please see 167 oh and Chuck Norris is still a lame ass…
April 26th, 2009 at 6:27 pmNewt is supposed to be a Ph.D, in European history of all things, and he doesn’t know what the Geneva convention says? Last time I checked, Geneva was right smack in the middle of Europe and was one of the highlights of European history. This story has been boiling for a couple of weeks now and Newt hasn’t bothered to pull one his old textbooks off of the shelf to bone up on the pertinent facts? He prefers to go out in public and bloviate on issues about which is only marginally informed? What an idiot.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:27 pm.
So Philip50,
When America Court Marshaled it’s own service members for engaging in the use of water interrogation, was America wrong?
.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:27 pmAnd what does Tora Bora mean to you Phillis?
April 26th, 2009 at 6:27 pm“BinLladen determined to strike US”. Ring any bells?
——
I was in the military the day all that happened. All I remember hearing was “We knew it” from my commanding officers.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:28 pmLet the teabaggers keep stupid.
It’s torture newty. We don’t need another repug C-I-C that is confused with the truth. newty would torture too. This is what he means.
This is why their club is going via the toilet.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:28 pmPhilip50 Says:
My opinion is that: TORTURE IS ILLEGAL.
Now if we could all only agree on what constitutes torture.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
———-
Opine away, Phil. It doesn’t matter. It is codified in international law that torture is illegal, and we signed onto that agreement.
What constitutes torture has been “settled law” for centuries. It’s only losers such as yourself who fall for the right wingnut talking points that attempt to muddy the waters in this regard.
You are wrong. Get used to it.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:29 pmGame O’ Life, as in airport toilet?
April 26th, 2009 at 6:30 pmSince Philip 50 is wondering what constitues torture:
1-to cause intense sufferingto:TORMENT
2-to punish or coerce by inflicting excruciating pain.
3-the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding)to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure.
4-distortion or overrefinement of a meaning or argument.
That last definition defines tou Philip 50.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:30 pmPhil, you keep arguing under the auspice of the fictional ticking time bomb scenario. The torturing in question was about trying to force a link between Al Quaeda and Iraq.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:30 pmHey, Max, I answered you. So answer your same question.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:30 pmWrong. You’re thinking of your previous puppet regime where the DOJ is simply an extension of the President.
The DOJ makes these decisions irregardless of the wishes of the President. Otherwise they’re just Gestapo, like we had with that piece of garbage Gonzales, and the evil tyrant that he served.
Whom you still serve and will always serve because cowardice, pride and evil have corrupted your very soul.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
Philip50 Says:
“Hussein at 168: It was Clinton who failed to stop Osama when he had the chance, not Bush. Get your facts straight.”
if i remember it was the repukies controlled congress who screamed “wag the dog, wag the dog”
April 26th, 2009 at 6:32 pm.
So Philip50,
The 1983 convictions of Texas sheriff James Parker and three of his deputies were wrong?
.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:32 pmPhilip50 Says:
And, remember, the people that were allegedly subjected to this were TERRORISTS who potentially held information that could result in catestrophic loss of U. S. lives! Some of you have lost all sense of perspective here.
*****
April 26th, 2009 at 6:32 pmWhere’s the proof? These “terrorists” were never given a trial!! Guilty till proven innocent? WTF?
.
Dear Philip50,
… But your answer was devoid of facts.
I’m asking intellectual questions of you.
Please explain how the USA was wrong.
.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:34 pmProud Says:
I know this site refuses to traffic in truth, but let me ask a question. Why hasn’t your dear leader made a decision on the torture prosecutions?
*****
April 26th, 2009 at 6:35 pmMaybe he’s afraid of getting knocked off by the bush crime family.
Proud Says:
——————————————————————————–
You can say this is not Obama’s decision until you are blue in the face, but this is Washington. Any decision Holder makes will be with the approval of Obama. If Obama does not wish for this to go forward it won’t. On paper the decision will be Holder’s but Obama will be pulling the strings. Until the polls give him enough cover this issue will bounce around congrees for a bit and then Obama will make the decision for the AG. Republican or Democrat this is how DC works.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
proud, now we are getting somewhere. What you have outlines is exactly what you would expect from the Rightwing, because that is how they run government. Look, we have had 8 years of top/down control, the top dictating everything. What is shaping up is a government that delegates ands works within boundaries. What you wingnuts don’t understand shouldn’t scare you.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:36 pmProud,
April 26th, 2009 at 6:36 pmAre you in anyway familiar with the SEPERATION OF POWERS? Written into the Constitution by our Founding Fathers? The same one that Bush treated like toilet paper (or worse)?
.
Dear Philip50,
… So it’s not torture when America does it, YES?
.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:36 pm.
Waterboarding Used to Be a Crime
By Evan Wallach
Sunday, November 4, 2007
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/02/AR2007110201170.html
.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:37 pmP50, John McCain calls waterboarding a horrible torture technique.
Is he wrong?
April 26th, 2009 at 6:37 pmJim Wolf, i explained to proud to be a moron @154 how the three branches of government work in our democracy. if he hasn’t picked up by now, it’s the equivilent of him plugging his ears and screeching “i can’t hear you”!
April 26th, 2009 at 6:39 pmTrolls (you know who you are). Do not post anymore crap till you read post #180. Then do not post till you’re done with step 12.
Thank you – have a wonderful day!
April 26th, 2009 at 6:40 pmspring heeled jack,
That’s like asking, “Which way is the wind blowing?”
.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:40 pmMax says: “So Philip50,
The 1983 convictions of Texas sheriff James Parker and three of his deputies were wrong?”
I presume this case involves waterboarding? If so, how can we have a logical discussion when you guys persist comparing apples and oranges? Is it clear to anyone else but me that your innane examples of waterboading American children or even American prisoners compares to waterboarding a terrorist captured and held outside the U. S.?! If the answer to that is not self-evident, then NOTHING I say could open your mind.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:40 pmI missed that one Bozo. But I think his ears have been plugged from day 1. Dude can’t even consider the possibility that he might be just a touch wrong.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:41 pmI’m asking intellectual questions of you.
—
April 26th, 2009 at 6:42 pmThat should be easy enough as Philip50 finds himself one smart mofo…
Philip50:
I ask again are you brighter than these folks? Why do you avoid this?
http://explore.georgetown.edu/news/?ID=20647
April 26th, 2009 at 6:43 pmand phill,
April 26th, 2009 at 6:43 pmwhy do you think the suspected terrorists are held and tortured outside of the united states?
hint:
a) since they would have to be charged and tried if they were on us soil
b) so we could claim we didn’t know what was going on. just like the germans did with auschwitz.
Again, Phlip 50 you completly miss the point here.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:44 pmTorture is Torture. It doesn’t matter who it is done to, by whom, or whatever the rational is for it. Its Torture, and its Illegal.
dbadass,
April 26th, 2009 at 6:44 pmphill is like the TVLand of talking points. he keeps rehashing the oldies but goodies…like dickhead cheney’s “ticking timebomb” scenario
Max says: “Dear Philip50,
… So it’s not torture when America does it, YES?
Does what, Max? Does what? Be specific.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:45 pmPhilip50:
Since you don’t consider waterboarding to be torture, does that mean you consider it an enhanced interrogation technique?
If so, I would love for you to explain to me how filling someone’s mouth with water constitutes interrogation. After all, doesn’t interrogation imply that the person being questioned can actually respond? If one is incapable of responding to questioning, it is difficult for me to see how the intention of waterboarding is interrogation rather than coercion.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:45 pm.
Dear Philip50,
I know you know that America signed the Geneva Conventions against the use of TORTURE, but…
… Can you point to the part where such a treaty allows the signatory to ignore said agreement, for convenience sake?
I know that al-CIA-duh isn’t a signatory to this same agreement against TORTURE, but…
… Can you point to the part in the Conventions that allows a signatory to ignore it’s obligations should it encounter an enemy not found in the signatory list?
.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:46 pmNewt cannot allow one day to go by without being in the news telling another lie.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:47 pmlet’s face it,
April 26th, 2009 at 6:48 pm“party of lifer’s” get their rocks off torturing people. sick fcuks.
.
p.s.
Yes Philip50,
That case is specifically about US Law.
Is the law wrong?
.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:48 pmI presume this case involves waterboarding? If so, how can we have a logical discussion when you guys persist comparing apples and oranges? Is it clear to anyone else but me that your innane examples of waterboading American children or even American prisoners compares to waterboarding a terrorist captured and held outside the U. S.?! If the answer to that is not self-evident, then NOTHING I say could open your mind.
—–
Again with the assumptions. Not everyone who was waterboarded was guilty of being a terrorist. They were not waterboarded because they were (alleged) terrorists but to gain information that DID NOT EXIST. They got more information by developing a friendly relationship.
Besides, I don’t care who they are. They are still human beings and no one should ever have to endure torture. Us doing it just stoops to their level and is great advertising for Al-Qaeda not to mention endangers our troops should one or more of them get captured. There is no excuse.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:49 pmso phill,
April 26th, 2009 at 6:54 pmwould you have a problem with the iranians waterboarding roxana saberi?
she was convicted of being a spy by the iranians.
Proud:
April 26th, 2009 at 6:54 pmSo, it’s acceptable to you if the decision to investigate potential crimes is subject to political spin?
If you were waterboarded 183 times you would confess to whatever the person waterboarding you wanted well before the 184th simulated drowning.
Bush said we dont torture and hiding behind lawyer/adviser rhetoric doesnt make it so.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:55 pm.
My dearest Philip50,
Let me guess…
… English grammar was not a strong intellectual sport of yours?
That “it” is being used as a pronoun referring to the nominative subject of the sentence, “TORTURE”.
.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:56 pmProud:
April 26th, 2009 at 6:56 pmA) you’re an idiot
b) who in their right mind would hold the attorney general responsible for not living up to a campaign promise of the president?
c) you’re an idiot
Clinton’s fault? Clinton left Bush with the bipartisan Hart-Rudmann report, which included the following:
link
Bush thought Cheney should study the issue, and that FEMA was sufficient.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:56 pmUnlike the Bush loyalists I dont believe in a unitary executive. I recall these people saying the president is above the law and it doesnt apply to him.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:57 pmAnd again Proud, your counter argument is weak and without basis in fact.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:59 pmHolder, as AG will make that call. If he decides to prosecute and the President disagrees, so be it. It will not stop the case(s) from going forward. If Obama were to try to intervene, he would be in violation of well established law defining that seperation and possibly open himself up to cesure of impeachment proceedings.
Waterboarding is illegal and ineffective.
Those arguing for it are engaging in vicarious sadism.
April 26th, 2009 at 6:59 pmNo, of course he shouldn’t publicly rebuke him. The Attorney Generals office has been historically independent, making the US a genuine democratic republic with clear separation of powers.
And you’re still silly enough to believe that President Obama and AG Holder are as corrupt as Bush and Gonzales.
We’re back to a normal government, and the AG’s office makes it’s own decisions on what to prosecute, investigate, etc, your desperate pleas to return to the Nazi model aside.
April 26th, 2009 at 7:00 pm
Should read: open himself up to censure or impeachment proceedings.
April 26th, 2009 at 7:01 pmI need to proof my posts before I hit enter.
Another shining beacon of irrational policy-making in the GOP. “I don’t know what it is, but whatever it is, I’m all for it”.
This is on top of previous, equally inane reasoning coming from the various pundits of the Republican Party. According to the GOP, torture works, but the CIA doesn’t torture. But if they did, it would work and save lives. And lives were saved, but torture wasn’t used. Huuuuuh?
Furthermore, the GOP insists that the CIA interrogation documents are no big deal and are much to do about nothing, yet out of the other side of their mouths they claim that disclosure about interrogation techniques involving “torture” will jeopardize national security.
How can these documents be both trivial and inconsequential and a threat to the nation at the same time? You cannot have it both ways.
April 26th, 2009 at 7:05 pmhttp://explore.georgetown.edu/news/?ID=20647
Your learned thoughts Philip50?
April 26th, 2009 at 7:08 pmDon’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out Proud.
April 26th, 2009 at 7:10 pmHere’s the reality of the waterboarding/torture situation.
The FBI regarded the policy as ineffective, unethical, illegal and wanted no part of it. All branches of the military felt likewise. John McCain, the man that the GOP selected as their POTUS candidate has been very outspoken about how wrong it was for the U.S. to use waterboarding. Even some of the legal experts within the Bush Administration agreed that it should not be done. And lastly, some of the people within the the Bush Administration who either planned, administered, or participated in the torture at the CIA facilities or the military-run sites have come forward and expressed regret over their participation in torture of detainees.
So it’s not as simple as blaming Obama and the left for being whiney, weak, and un-American. You must also point your finger at everyone mentioned above and call each of them un-American….if you dare.
April 26th, 2009 at 7:12 pmWhat world are you people living in?
April 26th, 2009 at 7:13 pm—
Did you expect an answer to this or were you just trying to fain some level of pretension?
Proud Says:
April 26th, 2009 at 7:15 pm“should be good for some laughs.”
i say that everytime your screen name appears, dope
Wow, I went to walk my beautiful dog and hug a few trees at the park across the street from house. I even had the golden opportunity to see a little bunny rabbit! Love my good green earth! Looks like the trolls are still at it – no matter how fierce an a$$ kicking they’ve received from smart commonsense Progressive/Liberal/Democrats on TP. I’ve come to the conclusion that Philip50 and Proud are just intellectually and mentally challenged.
April 26th, 2009 at 7:19 pmPhilip50 Says:
Is it clear to anyone else but me that your innane examples of waterboading American children or even American prisoners compares to waterboarding a terrorist captured and held outside the U. S.?! If the answer to that is not self-evident, then NOTHING I say could open your mind.
*****
Again, how do you know ANY of these people being held at Gitmo are terrorists? Because Cheney said so?
April 26th, 2009 at 7:21 pmDropdeadcharisma Says:
April 26th, 2009 at 7:23 pmAnd Cheney is not a reliable source of information! Ha!
Proud isn’t gonna like this coal guy…
April 26th, 2009 at 7:24 pmProud Says:
During the campaign he promised not to “look back” in regards to the prior admin and has made similar statements since taking office. So if Holder prosecutes should Obama publicly rebuke him for intentionally breaking one of O’s campign promises. Yet some of you are still silly enought to think that this won’t be O’s decision.
*****
I don’t get why you keep going on w/ this? What do you care? You’re only interested in trying to make him look bad but you can’t!
April 26th, 2009 at 7:27 pmAn high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin.
Proverbs 21:4
April 26th, 2009 at 7:28 pmI am convinced there are two types of internet users – those who use it for informational purposes and those who use it to look ignorant.
April 26th, 2009 at 7:31 pmXisithrus Says:
If you were waterboarded 183 times you would confess to whatever the person waterboarding you wanted well before the 184th simulated drowning.
*****
Do these “suspected terrorists” even understand english? Did they have translators there? I mean did they even understand wtf was going on?
April 26th, 2009 at 7:32 pmFunny thing about that..Bush didnt have overwhelming support to engage in such acts…
April 26th, 2009 at 7:33 pmWhat world are you people living in? Nothing will happen in regards to torture prosecution until O has overwhelming public support to prosecute torture, which at this point he does not have. Above all else he is a politician, until he has sufficient cover he will do nothing. Gotta go Hairplug Joe is being interviewed on 60 minutes, should be good for some laughs.
—–
Okay apparently you lack the ability to read. Obama CANNOT prosecute PERIOD. It is job of the DoJ which as someone kindly pointed out, does not have to answer to him. This isn’t the Bush administration.
And he does have public support for prosecution but again that requires the ability to read and retain information which you cannot seem to grasp.
April 26th, 2009 at 7:34 pmwhoops excuse my spelling errors :)
April 26th, 2009 at 7:35 pmBad ass,
Regarding the Georgetown article: I agree with most of what it says. If you guys would calm down and listen to what I am saying, rather than jump to wrong conclusions, we may find some common ground. But, it appears that the aim of many on here, you excluded of course, is to insult, coerce, silence, and distort, rather than exchange points of view. I will elaborate more shortly.
April 26th, 2009 at 7:35 pmit is spelled dbadass.
April 26th, 2009 at 7:39 pmI look forward to your elaboration. I think it ill advised to suggest any sort on intellectual superiority in any format but I with withdraw that judgment for the moment…
It’s hard to reason with trolls whose collective memory is so short that they cannot remember 8 years ago — Clinton tried to get OBL and missed — Bush and repugs mocked him for even trying.
Clinton’s national security team tried numerous times to get Bush&Co to listen to their information on AlQaeda and the potential threat to the USA, and they were ignored.
These are facts that are on the record.
Yet we have Bush who needed a month long vacation after several short vacations after having been president for 8 months, and who ignored security warnings written under blaring headlines.
George Bush was an abysmal failure, a doltish, oafish, willfully ignorant man who thought he could run the nation like an oil company – except he forgot that he ran his own company into the ground. He abandoned another one and took out his money ten days before it collapsed. He is unethical in addition to being the worst president we’ve ever had.
I know this is so hard for his adoring fan club to accept, so they rewrite history, selectively remember what they want and pass the rest on to the Democrats.
April 26th, 2009 at 7:40 pmPhilip50 you started with the insults.
April 26th, 2009 at 7:41 pmArticle 3 has been called a “Convention in miniature.” It is the only article of the Geneva Conventions that applies in non-international conflicts.[1] It describes minimal protections which must be adhered to by all individuals within a signatory’s territory during an armed conflict not of an international character (regardless of citizenship or lack thereof): Noncombatants, combatants who have laid down their arms, and combatants who are hors de combat (out of the fight) due to wounds, detention, or any other cause shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, including prohibition of outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment. The passing of sentences must also be pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples. Article 3’s protections exist even if one is not classified as a prisoner of war. Article 3 also states that parties to the internal conflict should endeavour to bring into force, by means of special agreements, all or part of the other provisions of GCIII
April 26th, 2009 at 7:42 pmI have that problem when people here talk about Texas..they have this illusion that Texas, for whatever reason, is full of Beverly Hillbillies.. I find it amusing for the most part. =)
April 26th, 2009 at 7:43 pmI Would just like to say -
Article 3’s protections exist even if one is not classified as a prisoner of war.
April 26th, 2009 at 7:46 pmMarie Says:
Clinton’s national security team tried numerous times to get Bush&Co to listen to their information on AlQaeda and the potential threat to the USA, and they were ignored.
*****
April 26th, 2009 at 7:50 pmMaybe they still hadn’t realized bush stole the presidency to hijack the country and make his minions lots of money!
Hey Philip50,
If you can defend what Bush did after you read #267.
Please try, I can’t wait to hear it.
April 26th, 2009 at 7:54 pm.
O.K. Back OT…
I heard about this “swine flue” outbreak the other day, I didn’t think they really meant Newt Gingrich.
.
April 26th, 2009 at 7:54 pm.
Dear Philip50,
Common ground…
… as in an understanding, NO?
Then, when did torture even become a bit legal?
.
April 26th, 2009 at 7:58 pmPhilip50 Says:
Bad ass,
Regarding the Georgetown article: I agree with most of what it says. If you guys would calm down and listen to what I am saying, rather than jump to wrong conclusions, we may find some common ground. But, it appears that the aim of many on here, you excluded of course, is to insult, coerce, silence, and distort, rather than exchange points of view. I will elaborate more shortly.
I know I speak for all of us here in thanking you for blessing us with your vision and wisdom. We wait with bated breath.
And it’s always a treat when a troll graces us with its presence, first insulting everyone here as a “stupid ignorant liberal” and then whining about how we all resort to insults rather than engage in a “exchange of view.”
The complete and utter lack of awareness never really changes.
April 26th, 2009 at 7:59 pmThink Progress is really hitting the Torture story. This is great let us expose these war criminals!
April 26th, 2009 at 7:59 pmOT – I can’t think of Newt another minute – got this from Americablog – Repugniscum bad timing.
Republican Senate Leader Mitch McConnell started a filibuster to prevent confirmation of Obama’s choice to head the Department of Health and Human Services, Kathleen Sebelius.
Today, Napolitano had to make the announcement about the “public health emergency” for HHS:
For the time being, HHS is being led by Acting Secretary Charles Johnson, a Bush-appointee from Utah who spent most of his career working as an accountant.
April 26th, 2009 at 8:03 pmHe knows alright. He is a political, Republican animal first. And he does not want to say it. He hopes to run in a few years. And he hopes we will all forget that he was one of the originators and whole hearted supporters of the Republican revolution. In fact without him, none of Bush’s administration could have done as much. The fact that his lack of ethics got him out of government as Speaker are another issue.
He wants to waffle and pretend there is an issue as to whether it is torture, even though the entire world and most of this country say it is. Only Fox network continues the drum beat or throwing noise and dust into the mix. As if it can disguise the truth. Newt will only admit it when it is expedient for him to do so. Being Republican he is able to talk out of both sides of his mouth, with both faces.
It is tied to his change in religion. He just became Catholic and had two of his marriages annulled so he can say his current third wife is his only wife according to the church. He hopes we will forget his last two adulterous affairs and divorces and turn a blind eye. All of this is to try and pave the way for a run as President. He believes we can forget his being thrown out as Speaker of the House, and his other wives. This last one was another of his mistresses. He wants us to forget all this.
If Americans forget Newt and his beliefs, and what party did this then we deserve another Bush. And we will get one. And the person will be Republican.
April 26th, 2009 at 8:07 pmDANG!!! You all been BUSY!
Had to go get a movie and propane for the grill . . .
I see Proud and Phill have been busy converting this left wing anti-American hot bed of terrorist lovin’ socialists into believing in ignorance and torture as a “Family Value” . . .
And to my own long delayed answer to Prouds weak ass claim:
“Our service personnel do fall under the protections of the Geneva Convention when they fight according to the rules of war. Further, they are not terrorists who target civilians like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed et. al. See the difference?”
“difference”?? When WE fail to observe the Geneva Convention or decide to pick and choose war/battle applications, it affords our “enemies” the SAME option . . . and didn’t Bush declare this “War On Terror”? Which would place ANYONE into POW status rather than common criminal status. OR . . we can accept ANY American held by any nation opposed to OUR policies can be tortured at will, UNLESS a state of war is actually declared and they THEN fall under the Geneva Convention? So why be upset over a few beheadings? They aren’t covered under any treaty . . . you argument fails the logic test. Either WE accept humane treatment of all POWs and common criminals OR we go the selective way of the average third world dictatorship subject to whatever corrupt whims of those in current power.
April 26th, 2009 at 8:07 pmWhat the repugs did was to “war in Iraq,” they didn’t officially declared war on Iraq, they just went over there to bomb the “terrorist.”
Try telling the Iraqis that chimpy didn’t want to fight them.
April 26th, 2009 at 8:15 pmHey when’s that wisdom stuff going to start?
:|
Is it on after the TV Land Awards?
April 26th, 2009 at 8:15 pmIf Proud or Phil were to waterboard their children, as punishment they would find themselves in a whole lotta hot water for ‘just splashing some water in their faces’.
April 26th, 2009 at 8:16 pmPost #267 is worth repeating again and again till the trolls stop b!tch!ng:
pwmagee Says:
April 26th, 2009 at 8:17 pm———————————————————-
Article 3 has been called a “Convention in miniature.” It is the only article of the Geneva Conventions that applies in non-international conflicts.[1] It describes minimal protections which must be adhered to by all individuals within a signatory’s territory during an armed conflict not of an international character (regardless of citizenship or lack thereof): Noncombatants, combatants who have laid down their arms, and combatants who are hors de combat (out of the fight) due to wounds, detention, or any other cause shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, including prohibition of outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment. The passing of sentences must also be pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples. Article 3’s protections exist even if one is not classified as a prisoner of war. Article 3 also states that parties to the internal conflict should endeavor to bring into force, by means of special agreements, all or part of the other provisions of GCIII
Marie Says:
OT – I can’t think of Newt another minute – got this from Americablog – Repugniscum bad timing.
Republican Senate Leader Mitch McConnell started a filibuster to prevent confirmation of Obama’s choice to head the Department of Health and Human Services, Kathleen Sebelius.
Today, Napolitano had to make the announcement about the “public health emergency” for HHS:
For the time being, HHS is being led by Acting Secretary Charles Johnson, a Bush-appointee from Utah who spent most of his career working as an accountant.
HAHAHAHA about chimpy’s appointment.
I don’t want to hear shit about teabag repugs blaming anything on President Obama especially when he can’t appoint who he wants in the first 100 days. teabaggers don’t even have a legitimate reason to hold up President Obama’s appointments.
April 26th, 2009 at 8:20 pmIt should embarrass the repugs that they have an acountant temporarily in charge of HHS when we have the potential for an immediate national health emergency, but I bet they won’t be embarrassed, but will blame Obama for not having someone in place.
April 26th, 2009 at 8:28 pmI just picked this up from Newsweek — Isikoff briefly referred to this on Friday. The article is lengthy, but check it out.
April 26th, 2009 at 8:29 pmhttp://www.newsweek.com/id/195089
How many recess appointments has Obama made?
Ronald Regan made 243 recess appointments
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recess_appointment
April 26th, 2009 at 8:30 pmdbadass says: “it is spelled dbadass. I look forward to your elaboration. I think it ill advised to suggest any sort on intellectual superiority in any format but I with withdraw that judgment for the moment…
Response: I agree. I do believe that the actual intellectual abilities of the participants on this site, yours truly included, are not always reflected by the things we write!
April 26th, 2009 at 8:36 pmIs this the wisdom stuff we were promised?
:|
Has it started?
April 26th, 2009 at 8:39 pm:\
…hold on lemme fire up the TIVO…
April 26th, 2009 at 8:41 pmAll that was black and white in the Bush years is now gray.
April 26th, 2009 at 8:46 pmTo dbadass, ElBruce, Xisithrus, Jim Wolf, dropdead, fire ant, labman, Bozo, spring heeled jack, Max, kasinca, kdgamergirl, tbone, rightwing-leftwing, RUCeriousMaggot!, flight, Bilbo Hussein, PD, Dr. Hussein Matt, pwmagee, dropdeadcharisma, gummble-bee-itch, Jess Wonderin (did I leave anyone out?!):
I readily concede that I am outnumbered on this site. I would love to answer all your prior questions which I am sure have been presented with the greatest of sincerity and humility :-) Since I cannot possibly get to all of them tonight, perhaps this will help. Following is some of what I think:
I BELIEVE THAT TORTURE IS ILLEGAL.
I do not want my country to engage in torture. Our treatment of prisoners should by consistent with the ideals of the value of human life that we hold dear. Plus, I agree that there are likely much more productive and reliable techniques to elicit valuable information.
I believe it is likely that some individuals engaged in torture on behalf of the United States, which, without knowing context, is unfortunate, wrong, and perhaps even criminal.
I believe that most of our brave intelligence and military personnel did what they believed to be their duty to their country.
I believe that Pres. Bush did what he believed to be his duty, however much I, or any of you, may second-guess his decisions.
If we were excessive in our interrogation techniques, those responsible should be at the least admonished and retrained.
Except in the rarest of cases, I do not believe it is of any value, and in fact is likely to do great harm, to attempt to criminalize the prior interrogation techniques in the difficult and uncertain 9/11 environment.
I DO NOT trust Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, or other partisan liberal lawmakers to conduct a fair investigation of prior interrogation techniques. It will be terribly divisive, polarizing, and inherently unfair from the outset
Waterboarding sounds like torture to me, but I reserve judgment until I know more about the context. (By context, if it was little more stress than we put our own service people through, it may be harsh, it may be scary, but it is most certainly not torture.)
It seems that waterboarding was never used on U. S. soil, which does not make it right, but it is a legal, technical distinction that would have relevance in any criminal investigation. So, in context, waterboarding does not appear to have been a common practice, so magnifying its significance out of proportion only damages our country further as a propaganda tool for our adversaries.
I believe that we should make every effort to abide by the Geneva Convention, even with those that are technically not subject to it, such as terrorists.
I believe Pres. Obama is doing a credible job, although I believe that he is a true liberal that actually believes that government can run our lives better than we can. (He also believes that it is okay to murder a child that was born in a botched abortion, so let’s talk about the value of human life!). I agree with Obama’s campaign position on NOT attempting to criminalize actions of the prior administration with which he may have fundamental disagreement (that is why we have elections), including the definitions of what constitutes “torture”. This would harm the body politic and “what goes around, comes around”, and Obama knows this!
The person who had the best opportunity to take out Osama Bin Laden before 9/11 was Bill Clinton. Sudan tried to give him up, and at another time we had him in our sites in Afghanistan from a drone if Clinton had given the green light. Bush NEVER had such an opportunity.
I believe that Gingrich was right to withhold judgment on weather waterboarding, as it was conducted, the details of which we do not fully know, was in fact “torture”. McCain has earned the right to take such a stand, and I respect his opinion as a former POW who was subjected to much harsher techniques.
There you have it. Now, before you throw 20 more questions at me, I challenge each of you to first tell me ANYTHING and EVERYTHING that I said that you agree with.
April 26th, 2009 at 8:47 pmSorry, Waynebro. Didn’t mean to leave you out.
April 26th, 2009 at 8:49 pmPhillip50, any intellectual abilities you may possess you hide very well.
April 26th, 2009 at 8:50 pmMarie Says:
I just picked this up from Newsweek — Isikoff briefly referred to this on Friday. The article is lengthy, but check it out.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/195089
Thanks, Marie, for the link. It should be quite clear to everyone that “enhanced interrogation techniques” (which were illegal anyway) were applied to Abu Zubaydah before the legal authorization had come down. Except that it wasn’t really legal authorization because what they were doing to him was illegal no matter what they said.
April 26th, 2009 at 8:52 pmTaking a walk! Be back in 40 to read all the abuse I get. Don’t want you guys to think I am shrinking from by obligation to counter-balance some of your thinking by a temporary silence. Hey, somebody’s got to!
April 26th, 2009 at 8:54 pm:|
Is there more wisdom coming or can I shut the TIVO off now?
April 26th, 2009 at 8:54 pmI just got on TP and watched this clip then i saw there were 240 comments Newt`s a popular guy. Anyway im wondering what got into Greta to keep at Newt like that. Im sure Fox brass is going to repremand her for that.
April 26th, 2009 at 8:56 pmPhilip50 Says:
Hussein at 168: It was Clinton who failed to stop Osama when he had the chance, not Bush. Get your facts straight.
I’m appalled you even said this, you should get your facts straight.
April 26th, 2009 at 8:57 pmVAN SUSTEREN: But you said a minute ago that it was torture, waterboarding…
GINGRICH: No, I said it’s not something we should do.
VAN SUSTEREN: OK. Is it torture or not?
GINGRICH: I — I — I think it’s — I can’t tell you.
VAN SUSTEREN: Does it violate the Geneva Convention?
GINGRICH: I honestly don’t know.
******************************************************
Oh, good grief…who does he think he’s kidding?????
Tell you what, Newt — if you genuinely can’t tell whether or not waterboarding constitutes torture or not, then why not undergo it yourself? Personal experience ought to help you figure it out. (I might as well tell you now that just about everyone who has voluntarily agreed to undergo waterboarding in order to get a better understanding of the process has concluded that it should be considered torture…)
Newt doesn’t know whether waterboarding is a violation of the Geneva Convention? I find that hard to believe myself, given how long this has been a point of controversy. If he doesn’t know whether it would violate the Geneva Convention, then why hasn’t he made an effort before this to read the thing and find out for himself??? It can’t be that difficult to do, surely…
No…what Newt almost certainly meant when he said that he “can’t say” and “doesn’t know” is that he doesn’t want to say and doesn’t want to know because he doesn’t consider it personally or politically expedient. He, like so many other politicians these days, is desperately trying to play both sides against the middle and avoid displeasing anyone — and anyone who’s read their Aesop, particularly the fable concerning the old man and the donkey, knows how effective that usually is (i.e., not at all). Newt, like so many other neoconservatives, is far more concerned with his own ambitions and self-interest than he is with ethics — if you want to see more evidence of this, just consider the callous way he ended his first marriage. Newt almost certainly knows that waterboarding would qualify as torture but is too much of a coward to say yes or no on the record. He knows very well that if he says it isn’t torture, he risks jeopardizing his political future in the event that someone within the judicial branch should render a formal decision defining waterboarding as torture. At the same time, he doesn’t dare say that waterboarding is torture since he knows that this would only anger fellow neoconservatives and the voters who support them. That being said, Newt only ends up making himself look wishy-washy by refusing to take a stand…so ultimately, he’s in something of a no-win situation. Not that I have any sympathy for him — this is no less than what he deserves for being an neoconservative egotist who believes that the only thing of importance is what he himself wants and needs, ethics be damned.
April 26th, 2009 at 8:58 pmrepublicans – the party of torture.
April 26th, 2009 at 8:58 pmdoes anybody have any updates on hannity’s waterboarding? – i’m sure that olbermann laid down the gauntlet and dared him to do it after hannity foolishly said that he would be willing – or has no more been said about it?
Phuckwad, sorry to hear you will be gone. I have a plane to catch so won’t be able to engage, but you are blinded by your obsequience to Boy George. We tortured. We were wrong to torture. We are doubly wrong to ignore the torture done in our name if we want to be the perceived leader of human rights.
Have a good walk, hope it clears your mind, but hope springs eternal.
April 26th, 2009 at 9:01 pmPhillip50
I agree with some of what you said. e.g. torture is illegal, not trusting politicians (I would say any politicians, not just Pelosi et al; which is why politicization of the justice department is so frightening). I also disagree with some of what you said.
For instance, I don’t think Obama thinks he can run our lives better than ourselves. I think he feels government has an obligation to serve the people and in some cases serving the people means regulating business to prevent them from fleecing citizens.
Second, I think that torture is not just physical, and that scary/harsh tactics are in fact torture. Inflicting psychological damage is no less offensive or immoral to me than inflicting physical damage.
I also happen to think that any responsibility for negative effects of a torture investigation should be squarely laid at the feet of the TORTURERS. Not those seeking justice. It’s not as though the Bush administration couldn’t foresee that public awareness of torture might be a problem.
April 26th, 2009 at 9:04 pmPhil, would you waterboard liberals?
April 26th, 2009 at 9:10 pmWhat? Do you recall that it was under Reagan that Osama and his ilk were called freedom fighters and the US supported and trained them?
April 26th, 2009 at 9:12 pmLaw enforcement always tells you to cooperate and do whatever your captor wants you to do, while you figure out how to escape. Doesn’t make any difference who’s holding you.
April 26th, 2009 at 9:17 pmI actually agree with Philip50’s main comment: Torture is illegal. The rest of his dissertation is the intellectual and cogent equivalent of Hamburger Helper.
April 26th, 2009 at 9:17 pmBush and chehey are villains. It’s as plain as the nose on your face.
April 26th, 2009 at 9:18 pmI seem to have a missed a rather extensive troll-fest.
This “having a real life” crap is really starting to interfere with my Whack-A-Troll™ training schedule.
April 26th, 2009 at 9:19 pmArn’t trolls great! They all sound like the same troll.
April 26th, 2009 at 9:23 pmNEWT….Please run for President…The Forever add…I don’t know if water boarding is torture…
April 26th, 2009 at 9:24 pmPhilip50 Says:
First of all waterboarding was only ONE of the many cruel and inhuman acts being performed in the name of “Freedom”.
Everything from medieval hanging from limbs for days on end to beatings, slamming of heads into walls (which causes structural brain damage) and the sickest most perverse cruelty since Caligula in those dungeons we allowed our flag to fly over.
If you don’t think waterboarding is torture then please, let us do it to you. Let someone do it to you. I’d be glad to. I’m sure there are plenty more volunteers behind me. Because if you’re so incredibly stupid, that you can’t figure out that if I imprison you, beat you, strip you naked, threaten repeatedly to kill you and then take you into a room, strap you to a board so you can’t move, tip the board upside down and pour water (or other substances) into your mouth and nose until your lungs fill with water, drowning you, then revive you so I can drown you again, then you are beyond teaching by example and lexicon. You need at that point to experience for yourself, first hand, because your brain is not capable of processing the information on its own.
Talk to Christopher Hitchens. You know, the neoconservative author who stumped for the war, waterboarding, Bush, etc.
He decided that, like you, was just too dumb dirt stupid to figure it out on his own (he’s at least got the booze excuse) so he decided to at least try it. And he did. And afterwards he wrote an article called “YES, IT’S TORTURE”.
In his Vanity Fair article he described the absolute horror, the pain as he was unable to breath, and like a rat in a toilet struggled for oxygen, even passing out after seconds as he sucked in too much water and released the “DEAD MANS LEVER” which told his interrogators that he was no longer with them.
Waterboarding is controlled drowning, not the ‘impression thereof’. As soon as you can no longer hold your breath, you breath. And when you breath, you breath water into the nose, mouth, throat and lungs. You effectively drown. Even Hitchens who by his own admission gave up after seconds still could not help breathing water into his lungs, and losing consciousness, if only for a moment. And as he pointed out in the article, he even knew his was not for real, that is, his tormentors were really friends, and no harm was intended towards him. When they finished, he’d dry off, head to the car and home for cocktails and dinner.
The prisoners on the other hand are in the hands of their sworn enemies. Imprisoned in dark, smelly dungeons. Beaten, threatened, and told they’d never see their families again.
So for them, it’s even more “torture” then it was for Hitchens, who did it only as an experiment.
So yes, if you are so incredibly stupid and morally bankrupt that you cannot tell that it hurts not to breathe, then I suggest you get someone to make you not breath for a while.
So you can see what most of us don’t need a study to see.
:|
That it hurts to stop breathing.
April 26th, 2009 at 9:24 pmHere is an excerpt from the Disclaimer that Mr Hitchens had to sign prior to being Waterboarded by the US Military.
I wonder if our captives in those dungeons of terror we set up are required to sign such a disclaimer?
:|
Oh that’s right. We do it overseas because we know it’s a crime.
April 26th, 2009 at 9:29 pm“Believe Me, It’s Torture”
Christopher Hitchens
April 26th, 2009 at 9:31 pmVanity Fair, August 2008
Waynebro:
April 26th, 2009 at 9:32 pmIf I remember correctly, doctor’s were also present during the “interrogation.” I am sure they weren’t there to treat physical injuries that may have resulted. Rather I guess they were there to snuggle with the terrorists if they got upset.
1) The documents provide compelling evidence that the Bush Administration planned and approved interrogation techniques that are clearly torture.
2) There is no credible evidence that the use of torture during the Bush Administration ever saved a single American life or prevented a single terrorist plot. Let’s not be naive. Cheney saying so does not make it true.
Some of interrogators themselves have gone public stating that every confession made under the duress of torture proved to be bogus. People will say ANYTHING under these conditions; mostly they will just make stuff up.
Of course, it’s entirely possible that the primary motivation for these abusive practices was vengeance against anyone who resembled or was loosely associated with those who committed the atrocities of 9-11, in which case the Bush regime accomplished its objective.
3) The U.S. signed international agreements and has passed laws, affirmed by the Supreme Court, prohibiting the use of torture during interrogations of detainees. The agreements do not have an asterisk that says “except when it’s done by the U.S. against people that we suspect are bad guys”.
April 26th, 2009 at 9:32 pmApparently, for our new friend, the fact that waterboarding is legally considered torture by the UN, the Geneva Convention and the international community isn’t enough authority, nor is the fact that we successfully prosecuted Japanese soldiers for the crime after WW2.
Nope. He needs “more context”.
April 26th, 2009 at 9:32 pmPhillip50 Says:
The only statement I agree with of yours is when you say ‘I BELIEVE THAT TORTURE IS ILLEGAL.’ The rest is just NONSENSE to me!
I will holla at you all tomorrow. I’m going to watch a movie and prepare for work in the morning.
April 26th, 2009 at 9:36 pmHave a fabulous night – it’s been fun giving the trolls verbal whippings! Rock on TP and all my fellow Progressive/ Liberal/Democratic insects!
Phil, what would you do if a member of your family was waterboarded?
April 26th, 2009 at 9:42 pmI thinking waterboarding maybe causes internal damage. even one waterboarding will put a huge strain on your cardiovascular system and can cause heart attack. I believe repeated waterboarding would cause severe damage to the entire body, including the heart and brain. there is no way repeated drownings won’t cause major physiological changes throught the system incuding the hormonal sysytem and brain function. Where are they keeping their captives?
April 26th, 2009 at 9:43 pmSee now Phil if you had posted all that in the first place I’m sure we would’ve happily discussed it with you.
I agree with a few points you made however, I do not agree with your idea that Obama is trying to run our lives. The last eight years have taught us that deregulation and the government ignoring people who don’t make insane amounts of money doesn’t work. I agree with Tbone’s response but want to add that I think Obama just wants to make sure his fellow Americans are taken care of and that rich people go back to paying their fair share. He’s willing to pay his.
I will stay away from the abortion argument since I know I’ll end up saying some very mean things. It isn’t always so black and white.
Wayne certainly took care of the torture response so I will also leave that alone.
April 26th, 2009 at 9:44 pmThere was a retired military officer on the radio the other day. I forget his name but anyway, he was discussing the idea that torture was useful. He said in his own observations that these men were so psychologically damaged after all of this that couldn’t give you a good answer if they wanted to. So sad.
April 26th, 2009 at 9:49 pmYou guys must have had every Faux News talking point repeated and ripped apart on this issue by now
April 26th, 2009 at 9:52 pmHey, Bilbo – not that it makes any difference at this point in the conversation — you have all handed pwoud and phil their ignorant troll asses right smartly — but Keith Olbermann offered to put up $1000 per SECOND for Little Seanie to be waterboarded for the troops…
April 26th, 2009 at 9:52 pmPage Dr. Sanja Gupta and ask him if he would waterboard himself one tenth that many times, say 18 waterboardings, without concern for his health there after. I challange the doctor to devulge everything we know about prolonged or permanent waterboarding injury and disability. Paging Dr. Gupta…
April 26th, 2009 at 9:54 pmTo all the regular posters who so deftly handled the trolls today I say thank you. Now the least I can do is scoop up the troll poop.
April 26th, 2009 at 9:58 pmIf the trolls had any knowledge besides the talking points they’re given they’d know about the Republicans accusing Clinton of wagging the dog to divert attention from the horrifying bl@wjob impeachment that they spent so much time prosecuting.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:02 pmReal man?
You’re such a big sissy you wouldn’t even provide your occupation the other day for fear from us “lefties”.
You’re the sissy, because like Hitler and the Nazi’s, your cowardice overpowers your humanity.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:02 pmA lot of people risk brain damage to show they are tuff. Go for it.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:02 pm“If there were a person, oh let’s say Khalid SHeik Mohammed who had knowledge of Al Qaeda and you did not waterboard them, you would be derelict in your humanity and it is unethical to not get the information. Period!”
All this in spite of the experts opinion that it doesn’t work.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:03 pmAnd again, with the ‘24′ obsession over smoking nukes that are only present in your urine filled dreams.
brothabill, would you be down with waterboarding your family?
April 26th, 2009 at 10:05 pmLet’s not forget that this torture was borrowed from the Chinese Communists in Korea, for the express purpose of extracting FALSE CONFESSIONS for propaganda purposes.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:08 pmSo how is the intel you might get from violating international law reliable?
And again, with the ‘24′ obsession over smoking nukes that are only present in your urine filled dreams.
Uh, that’s a urine filled tea-bag btw.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:08 pmBrothaBill, This is America, and in this country, if you don’t like the laws against torture, you can try to change them. In fact, I welcome all the Reichwingnuts to try to change the laws regarding torture.
Unfortunately for the Republicans, no change in the laws regarding torture will save them because torture was against the law when they committed their crimes.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:09 pmI am surprised. I actually got a couple of decent responses, along with all the hysteria, pseudo-babble, and misrepresentations of what I said. Thank you, kdgamergirl for your respectful reply. I will ask you in response to your statement in reference to abortion in which you stated: “It isn’t alwasy so black and white.” Agreed. The same is true of most subjects if we would be intellectually honest.
For example, nobody on here witnessed these alleged water boardings, so it is not black and white whether that constitutes torture, although reasonable people can propose their own opinions, which will differ based on their own perception of what may have happened. I wish we had not used waterboarding on anyone. But waterboarding is used in training our own military under controlled circumstances. Under similar conditions with a prisoner in which he knew he would not actually die, one could argue that such treatment did not rise to the definition of torture in the Geneva Convention. Again, the Convention does not specifically refer to waterboarding as some posters have implied. I said before that this may be “dark gray”, but it is not as black and white as so many on here want it to be (probably because of the Bush Derangement Syndrome with which they are afflicted).
Incidentally, the “rich” already pay a disproportionately large share of the taxes. Taxing them more is bad business and inherently unfair.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:10 pmTorturing is a demonstration of humanity? Now there is a concept.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:11 pmTaking a walk! Be back in 40 to read all the abuse I get.
Hmm, this one has set the bar so high she’s doomed to failure.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:12 pmWrong. America defeats countries that torture. My father and all of my uncles save one fought in WWII, fighting against evil men like your kind who believe the ends justify the means. And they did it with honor.
Torture is evil, and when the “clock is running out” real patriots would rather die than sacrifice what it means to be an American for the idea of safety.
Cowards torture.
Patriots live and die with honor.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:12 pmOh yeah. Brothabill, I didn’t ask for, nor need, someone to “protect” me by torturing others. I understand that life involves some risk that cannot reasonably be controlled.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:14 pmI’m beginning to feel the onset of Philip50 derangement syndrome. It must be the foul taste left in my mouth after having tons of bullsh*t poured into my open mouth tonight.
Say, Phil… how would you react to finding out members of your own family were waterboarded?
April 26th, 2009 at 10:15 pmIsn’t it interesting how conservatives express their positions very clearly — on tax cuts, “socialism” invading Iraq, even blowjobs in the Oval Office — but when it comes to a thing like torture, they suddenly discover nuance?
April 26th, 2009 at 10:17 pmWrong.
There is nothing reasonable about your “opinion”.
And Christopher Hitchens WAS waterboarded.
And he says you are wrong.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:17 pmbillwad will love Australia.
It’s about 25 years behind the United States with regard to civil rights, equality and modernization in general.
Wonder if they have double-wides in the Outback? OY!
April 26th, 2009 at 10:18 pmHere Phil, Wag the Dog, learn something.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:18 pmTorturing is a demonstration of humanity? Now there is a concept.
Only to the kool-aid drinkers who think tea-bagging against taxing the upper 2% of wage earners is in their best interest somehow.
Fcuking degenerate retards, nuttin-butt-honey!
April 26th, 2009 at 10:18 pmI don’t believe a word you type, but if this is true, don’t let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:18 pmThank you Waynbro for reminding people that it is noble and dignified to refuse to lower oneself to methods such as torture. For similar reasons, I also think that it would be dignified of Bush and his colleagues to welcome the investigation. If they truly feel that their actions were so noble, they would be willing to accept any punishment they may face. It would be a small sacrifice to make knowing that they saved so many lives (as they claim.) That would actually be an honorable act.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:22 pmSame here. Same for most Americans.
Most adults are able to live life with the knowledge that death is inevitable, and do not need to trade away their humanity like grovelling cowards for a few more hours or a sense of “safety”.
Cowards torture and abandon humanity for “safety”.
Normal and reasonably brave human beings do not.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:22 pmI bet if we waterboarded billy for 15 seconds he’d admit that he’s a diaper wearing Cheeto eater living in his mom’s double wide.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:22 pmGOOD. Don’t come back.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:22 pmAustralia?
:|
I thought Argentina was the usual hideout for people like you.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:24 pmThanks, brotha for your response… but what if your family was being waterboarded by Islamofascists? What would you do then?
April 26th, 2009 at 10:26 pmHey bildo, nobody cares what you “would” do. Your just another reich wing chickenhawk coward that’s afraid of every brown person in the word and is stupid enough to believe you can torture and kill your way to safety. Go to Australia and build a really big gate around your house, pansy. You don’t speak for real Americans. Please leave.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:26 pmbillybob,
It only counts if your being waterboarded by someone who’d rather kill you than look at you.
Big talk.
Must have a puny dick.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:26 pmHey Bill, what did you get on your MCATS?
April 26th, 2009 at 10:27 pmOoh, ooh, I know. He’s sh#t his pants and hide under the bed.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:27 pmAnd NO testicles.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:28 pmYou don’t speak for real Americans. Please leave.
No shit!
Hit the road loser.
If we’d a known it was this easy to get rid of cowardly pussies this easily we should have elected a black President A LONG TIME AGO…
April 26th, 2009 at 10:29 pmApril 26th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
I have tried to engage some of you in reasonable debate. Most of the response has been juvenile name-calling, or worse. You won’t concede even the most obvious of points because of your blind hatred of those you oppose. Some of you respond with cutsy little altered gutter language. Is this the kind of image of America you want to project, one that is crude, rude, uncivil, arrogant, dogmatic, partisan, and hateful? I don’t appreciate or respect those qualities in Ann Coulter, and neither do I in many of you. You don’t represent the inherant goodness I see in most Americans. Many of you need to take a long look at the person in the mirror and respect yourself and others more. THAT would make our country and the world a better place.
I know this will break your hearts, but no more casting pearls before swine for me today.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:31 pmThese trolls are so pathetic because they have no background knowledge of any issue and they don’t know any history. They have no idea how stupid they sound because talking points they spew have nothing to do with anything that has happened before last week.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:31 pmMy husband and I own a business he works 6 days a week from 7 am to at least 6 pm. And on Sunday we go pickup supplies for the business. I spend $12.5k a year per employee for health insurance and I just spend from 4 am to 7 pm driving my daughter to music camp today. So you should just shut your big stupid yap and get the frick out of this country. Because what we should be doing is taking names of antiAmerican a$$holes like you who espouse torture which is NOT AN AMERICAN VALUE. Pansy.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:36 pmOh and brothabill, if you were to eat sh#t and die, nobody would care.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:36 pmIt’s a better image than a bunch of mealy mouthed evil cowards who turn to torture like the Nazi’s did because they cannot muster the courage to live with honor.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:36 pmbill, brotha… you’ve already said all of that. Now, what would you do if the islamofascists waterboarded your family?
April 26th, 2009 at 10:37 pmWicked and cowardly men like you will never understand that it has nothing to do with them, or what they’ve done.
It has to do with us, and who we are.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:37 pmbillybob must have a huge pile of soiled diapers…
April 26th, 2009 at 10:37 pmbrothabill has got to be a parody.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:37 pmBrothabill:
April 26th, 2009 at 10:37 pmAnd you are not guilty of living an American lifestyle?
Oh really Phil, well your defense of torture is putting perfume on a pig. Take it somewhere that other cowards will enjoy hearing your opinion.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:38 pmbrothabill reminds me of Joker.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:38 pmFlag brothabill. He’s been waxing pathetic all weekend.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:38 pmOn the contrary, Shayne. As a noted TP poster said recently, “Its karma, they earned it.”
April 26th, 2009 at 10:39 pmLook we have made progress from Obama’s 1st 100 days. let us celebrate that and not get all into this torture stuff. Trust Obama and have faith in him. He will do us right.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:39 pmshaun Says:
republicans – the party of torture.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:39 pmdoes anybody have any updates on hannity’s waterboarding? – i’m sure that olbermann laid down the gauntlet and dared him to do it after hannity foolishly said that he would be willing – or has no more been said about it?
————————————————————–
I was hoping to see that as well. Hannity was just bullshyting as usual and Hannity knows it’s torture.
The more I hear from these right wing trolls the happier I am that cowards like Rumsfeld and Cheney and Rush and O’Reilly etc. never served in the military. My 14 year old daughter has more courage than any of these torture monkeys.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:40 pmLol, yes “brotha”. And when you and the rest of your family come out of the cabbage patch you let us know, ok Clem?
:|
As in Kadiddlehopper.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:40 pmMy bad. I should have said nobody would feel bad about it. :)
April 26th, 2009 at 10:40 pmHey Billy, I’m still waiting for that answer on your MCATS.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:43 pmSo I take it you currently are residing at one of our finer Aryan Compounds in Northern Idaho Bill?
:|
Potatoes grow well there you know.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:43 pm:|
I think he said he preferred dogs.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:44 pmI’m hoping he’s going to tell us the one about how he’s a “real man” again.
:D
That ones my favorite.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:45 pmbrothabill Says:
Are you that dense? Islamofascists dont waterboard, they cut off people’s heads!
Islamofascists don’t waterboard because they don’t exist.
I realize that wingnuts need to be frightened and they need everything reduced to the simplest terms, but that doesn’t make them real.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:49 pmNondestructive?
Really?
From the US Army -
Tell us, is illiteracy a rampant problem “down under”?
April 26th, 2009 at 10:49 pmnew talking points from faux news a independent investigation would make us into a “banana republic”
April 26th, 2009 at 10:49 pmOnce more Heinrich, it’s not about them, or what they’ve done.
It’s about us, and who we are.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:50 pmBrothbill:
I don’t understand how debt is relevant to a discussion on torture.
I also don’t understand how someone who appears to have lived in the “sinking ship” that is America since being young is somehow not living the American lifestyle that is responsible for wrecking the world.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:50 pmbill, brutha… you have nothing to fear but brothabill himself.
Now, please answer my question. What will you do if islamofascists waterboard your family?
April 26th, 2009 at 10:51 pmhmmm, you seem pretty anti-American there “brotha”.
:|
Immigration know about you?
April 26th, 2009 at 10:52 pmPhil -
April 26th, 2009 at 10:53 pmThe biggest weakness of your position is the acceptance of government sanctioned torture REGARDLESS of motivation without acceptance of the consequences . . . if we indeed feel torture is illegal and immoral – then we MUST investigate and hold those responsible ACCOUNTABLE. PERIOD . . . or accept that any elected U.S. Government can at will anytime commit crimes and in secret re-write/ignore the rule of law, international and domestic. There is no “almost pregnant” in torture . . . there is no “semi-transparent” government.
I think they already did.
:|
That’d explain the schizophrenia.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:54 pmBrotha is a drunk performance artist. Everything he writes is untrue. Just flag him.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:57 pmwow, really?
:|
Then what are those tomatoes doing in my garden?
April 26th, 2009 at 10:58 pmNot to mention:
We are waterboarding all kinds of people who haven’t been convicted of any crime.
They have been denied due process, so the proof against them is secret, classified and solely on the say-so of some alleged, unnamed ‘witness’ or supposed circumstantial evidence.
The United States of KGB…
April 26th, 2009 at 11:00 pmbill, bump the turntable, your song is skipping.
What would you do if islamofascists were waterboarding your family?
April 26th, 2009 at 11:02 pm397. brothabill Says: Of course, I am a physician and advanced cardiac life support certified.
In other words, a lifeguard.
Well its psychological and perhaps its just me and see it as quite a simple medical procedure to keep someone alive during a bit of water to the face.
No real physician would refer to waterboarding as “a bit of water to the face.” btw, tell me, “Dr.” what is the difference between atrial flutter and atrial fib?
Just curious…
April 26th, 2009 at 11:06 pmSo you’re telling me illiteracy is the problem?
Because you’re so incredibly illiterate that you think the word PHYSICAL means psychological. (hinr: look at the FIRST word dumbass)
(physical, emotional and psychological) injuries and even death, including injuries and death due to the respiratory and neurological systems of the body.
See if you’d stay’d in school (not homeschool but real school) you’d know that the word “PHYSICAL” means physical.
And you’d know that death due to “respiratory and neurological systems” is not “psychological”.
It’s ok though.
There’s always “Hooked-on-Phonics”.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:06 pmA mind is indeed a terrible thing to waste.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:07 pmApril 26th, 2009 at 11:09 pm
Walk beside me and be my friend, bill.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:09 pmbrothabill Says:
I think I am the only one on this website that actually has saved a life. I doubt any of you internet tards have done anything as amazing as I have.
One thing consistent among trolls: a massive ego. Without knowing a single thing about anywhere else here, the troll is convinced that he’s “amazing” and that everyone else is a “tard.”
Sorry, troll, but I’m far more amazing than you. Prove otherwise.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:10 pmhanshiro the antlion Says:
In other words, a lifeguard.
Now that’s funny….and it explains the guy’s weird obsession with drowning folk.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:11 pmI think you guys should not disgrace the memories of all the “J”ews that were murdered by adopting the methods of their Nazi murderers.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:13 pmBillybob is a physician that doesn’t know that aspirating water can be life threatening. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:13 pmHere’s brothabill on another thread, earlier today:
brothabill Says:
——————————————————————————–
lol, I punked you guys good this weekend! Got you all riled up, you guys are easy, like punching a kindergartner!
I cant believe you idiots fell for the kwasimoto line hahaha!
Seriously, you polesmokers are too funny to mess with. You are fat lazy and STUPID americans. I bet none you have jobs, any education and dont know how to cook. When the world cuts off your funding you idiots will starve to death.
I can make sushi and pizza and I have a hiil of beans lol
Stupid idiots. Next week I will come back and punk you and waste your time under a new handle tata losers
April 26th, 2009 at 11:14 pmApparently our ‘resident Doktor’ doesn’t know teh difference in atrial flutter and atrial fib….
A doctor will know the specific shorthand explanation.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:14 pmbilly’s googling like crazy right about now….
April 26th, 2009 at 11:16 pmWhat kind of idiot are you?
I am fully aware you IGNORED the portion of the US Army document that you didn’t like.
So?
April 26th, 2009 at 11:17 pmIt wasn’t my “quote” dumbass.
It was from an official US Army disclaimer.
Idiot.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:17 pmLaughed out lood. Thanks.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:18 pmbroth@413, Wow. Your still here? At the beginning of this thread, I’ve been in and out. You know. Cooking dinner. Getting the kids ready for bed. Dear Lord, do you have a life? Other than assault us with your limited views?
April 26th, 2009 at 11:18 pmDoctors are type-’A’ personalities. They don’t mosey around cardiac questions, they weigh in with all the knowledge at their disposal.
Why isn’t “dr. billy?”
April 26th, 2009 at 11:19 pmYou are illiterate.
You’re calling an excerpt from an official US Military Document a “quote” that you can “disagree with”.
It’s a disclaimer moron.
And it says you are wrong.
Psychological was SECONDARY on the disclaimer.
The first danger was PHYSICAL DEATH.
:|
Deal with it, dumbass.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:21 pm*whistle*
Calling ‘dr. billy,’….dr, Fauxbilly…
April 26th, 2009 at 11:21 pmThe official document signed prior to being waterboarded by the US Military
And this idiot thinks it’s “psychological”.
:|
Illiteracy at it’s worst.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:23 pm..and yet, can’t answer a simple cardiac question…
Herr doktor…
April 26th, 2009 at 11:23 pmOr purposeful dishonesty.
:|
Which based on the character of a coward who’d torture to keep himself safe, is the more likely of the two.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:24 pmfunny?
April 26th, 2009 at 11:24 pmMoron.
Read the disclaimer again.
And if you knew anything about medicine, you’d know brain death and permanent brain and respiratory damage are a common by product of even momentary drownings.
:|
You really are an idiot.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:27 pm:|
And Austrailia’s lucky to have you.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:28 pmMaybe when you get their you can waterboard a Crocodile.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:28 pmThanks Broth, I need a drink. You bring out the alcoholic in me.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:30 pmI think you called it correctly hanshiro. I’ve never heard a physician refer to himself as cardiac life support certified. That seems more of an EMT thing. Just another poser. Though if any of you are concerned about starving after the end of the world as we know it this nut predicts, I can easily feed 100 of us.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:31 pmliberals would rather see obama take the terrorists out the same restaurant he takes his wife. whatever dining facilities they have in high crime, high inflation, deeply polluted chicago and washington.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:33 pmmcwars = another libtarded poster
April 26th, 2009 at 11:35 pmOnly when the option is seeing him with one of you.
:|
Lesser of two evil’s, you know?
April 26th, 2009 at 11:35 pmtorture is the right practice for america.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:36 pmYea, I just read that on WebMD too.
:|
Small world.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:38 pmI would think a doctor would have a better command of sentence structure. You’ve made it perfectly clear you don’t like America. Why are you still here? What’s stopping you from joining that alleged wife of yours in Australia?
Ignorance really isn’t all that becoming for a doctor.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:38 pmOur access to your “brilliance” has already been sharply curtailed.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:38 pmoh and we’re still waiting on that MCAT score!
April 26th, 2009 at 11:39 pmHe’s still Googling what a good score would look like.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:41 pmThe other day he refused to even discuss his profession.
Now he can’t stop talking about it.
Which tells us one thing.
:|
It’s not his profession.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:42 pm“When water is aspirated into the lungs, the composition of the water is a key factor in the pathophysiology of the near-drowning event. Aspiration of freshwater causes surfactant to wash out of the lungs. Surfactant reduces surface tension within the alveoli, increases lung compliance and alveolar radius, and decreases the work of breathing. Loss of surfactant from freshwater aspiration destabilizes the alveoli and leads to increased airway resistance”
Start here billy.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:43 pmAnd I believe billy has namejacked McWars.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:43 pm434. brothabill Says:
‘Herr doktor bullsh¡t,’ you have pointedly not explained what I asked, you threw up a haze of verbose characteristics, but you failed to tell me the difference between atrial flutter and atrial fib.
You’re a fraud. A scumbag fraud.
If you’re so knowledgeable, why aren’t you addressing the question?
April 26th, 2009 at 11:43 pmWhy must we feed the trolls? They always dominate the conversation don’t they? They come up with ridiculous arguments, and we try to defend our position. It’s the Bush years all over again. But this time, we won. Obama won. And they can’t stand it. After all the bashing, the threats, Americans rose up and said screw you. It must be terrifying for the Righties.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:44 pmHe’ll try but I’m not sure they cover that on WebMD.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:44 pmNot this one.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:45 pmYou also didn’t correct the lexicon of atrial flutter and atrial fib. That is what a real physician would do.
You posted a bunch of irrelevant crap.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:46 pmAnd yet he never learned to put a period at the end of a sentence. Yeah, he got into medical school alright.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:47 pmWAYNEBRO@450, I didn’t mean to offend you. But I’m tired of this baiting by the Repugs. It saddens my soul.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:48 pmWaterboard his fat ass.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:48 pm452.brothabill Says: I know everything about afib and aflutter lol.
And yet, you don’t answer.
Busted. A real doctor would shut me down instantly.
You’re a fraud.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:49 pmSure. It only took you several hours to google an answer for that one.
I understand though. You needed to find some comparable scores across the board in order to come up with a plausible response.
It’s cool troll. We understand.
:|
It’s not easy shilling for the return of Nazi Germany.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:50 pmOh, and it’s not referred to as “afib” and “aflutter.”
Dr. Poseur.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:50 pmHey doc, aren’t you people supposed to take some kind of oath?
April 26th, 2009 at 11:52 pmI haven’t posted in a while and would like to say “hello” to everyone. Too busy and all that. I have occasionaly checked in and watched the good fight with the trolls. This thread started with Proud – he’s always good for a laugh. Then Philip50 – really, what’s up with that guy?
Now you’ve got bigbrothabill who obviously isn’t a doctor in any sense of the word whatsoever. He’s here to preach to us. What fun.
He kind of reminds me of american9mm from the other day. Why would anyone post on TP defending an undefendable position and then act like they’re a bunch of knowitalls.
Ah yes, they are right wing republican retards.
Well, keep up the good fight. I’ll hopefully have time later this week to check back in.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:53 pm:|
Yea but he thought they said “Hypocritic Oath” and has been living it ever since.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:53 pm459.brothabill Says: What exactly are you asking of me?
A question a real cardiac physician would know in his sleep, since I asked one just for this question. I know the answer. You don’t. You’re no physician.
You’re a lying scumbag fraud.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:54 pmyou think so? let me check with billy.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:54 pmI agree with this article, There is no need to have a committee on whether or not torture happened. It happened and there is ton of proof. What needed to be done is impeachment.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:55 pmNo, I’m seeing more like the inside of a Messiah University dorm room.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:55 pmA lot of these complications don’t seem cardiac in nature.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:56 pmNow he’s name jacking me. You are out of her JOKER.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:57 pmanybody can run a business! i think i’m a special case!
April 26th, 2009 at 11:57 pmbilly, you were more convincing as a russian immigrant. both incarnations were dumb as sh¡t, but the russian one was not as involved and easy to bust. Not like the doctor lie.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:57 pmI see that “Dr” McMengele is still trying to claim life saving surgery is morally equivalent to the maltreatment of helpless prisoners. What a POS.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:58 pm470. brothabill Says: Dont know where you get your info. I am confident in my info b/c I am telling the truth
I got it from a real doctor, and you, doktor fakeman, have yet to answer the simplest of cardiac questions…simple for a real cardiac doctor….
pussy fraud…
April 26th, 2009 at 11:59 pmOk, well how would you get the head of a neoconservative dimwit who thinks not breathing doesn’t hurt extracted from his anus?
:|
Without surgery mind you.
April 26th, 2009 at 11:59 pmHE’S A DOCTOR WHO NEVER LEARNED PUNCTUATION AND NAMEJACKS.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:02 amNo real cardiac doctor would shrink from answering my question. Never.
billy is a lying scumbag fake.
It’s all conservatives know…
April 27th, 2009 at 12:02 am476. ConservativeForProgress Says: After 472 posts, we can summarize the liberal position as follows:
I can shorten it even more: America voted for the ‘liberal position’ and REJECTED the incompetent, torturing conservatives.
Twice.
You can thank me now….
April 27th, 2009 at 12:05 amConservativeForProgress or Mr. Oxymoron, we don’t want to torture anybody.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:05 amYea you answered after hours and hours and repeated requests.
Hell you could have TAKEN the MCATS in the time it took you to answer.
:|
Which indicates you googled it.
But I didn’t need that to know you were no doctor.
All I needed was your response to an official US Army Medical Disclaimer, which clearly stated that PHYSICAL death due to “NEUROLOGICAL AND RESPIARTORY SYSTEMS” was a possible result.
You responded claiming the excerpt said “PSYCHOLOGICAL”, completely ignoring the overwhelming and overabundant warnings on NEUROLOGICAL and RESPIRATORY failure.
No “doctor” would have done that.
So no, you didn’t take the MCATS, you’re no doctor, you’re just the same troll we’ve been confronting for a long time, under a new handle, with a new sock puppet identity you created using Google.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:05 amHeh… successful. Thanks, dipsh*t.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:05 amI’ll be right back, my dog is giving me the evil eye so I’m going to go torture him to see what he’s up to.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:06 ami never cared until nancy pelosi cared.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:08 amI got nothing out of him. But after I do it another 100 times surely he’ll tell me what he’s thinking.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:08 amSome idiot has hijacked Shayne’s name.
How original…
April 27th, 2009 at 12:10 ami dont really like america thats why i stuck barack ocharkley on her!
April 27th, 2009 at 12:11 amIf we got life saving information from torturing detainees why didn’t Cheney release the tapes that showed the proof instead of destroying them?
April 27th, 2009 at 12:11 amWell, he says it’s not torture so let’s urineboard his ass.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:12 amFirst he namejacked McWars. It’s brothabill. Same inability to punctuate.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:12 amI hope you sent Faiz an email, Shayne.
Yeah, “brothabill” is totally believable as a doctor. :D
April 27th, 2009 at 12:14 amThe poor, confused, authoritarian types still can’t understand. Our elected leaders are legally required to maintain a higher standard of conduct. And that’s true even when it requires a higher standard than our enemies.
It’s true in every law, and treaty, ever adopted by a civilized nation. By ordering the systematic maltreatment of prisoners, our leaders pissed away any claim we had to the name “civilized”.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:16 amI was thinking just the other day,
what does a really sore loser look like?
Thanks btbill!
April 27th, 2009 at 12:17 am485. brothabill Says: What is your question, I guess you are just being coherent and blame me for it.
I couldn’t have been more clear, liar.
I guess if you want to be fundamental in an ecg sense, the difference between aflutter and afib. (and yes those ARE the abbreviations used everywhere in medicine)
No, they are (AFL) and (AF).
is that aflutter has a slower rate than afib which appears as a sawtooth pattern with an atrial rate of 200-350, above 350 it takes on the classic irregular irregularity and classified as atrial fibrillation
Tsk. Lots of verbiage, but no stated difference. What’s the matter herr doktor? It’s an easy question. What’s the difference in atrial fib and atrial flutter? I try another way: how do you tell the difference?
(btw: this sounds deep and clinical: “irregular irregularity” but it’s verbal masturbation.)
You’re no physician.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:18 amWell brothabill, if you had taken more care while you’re namejacking we wouldn’t have known it was you. Moron.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:18 amYou’re no doctor.
No doctor would read that medical disclaimer from the US Army and come back and claim it was talking about “Psychological” damage.
Nor would he omit “RESPIRATORY and NEUROLOGICAL” damage.
You’re no doctor.
You’re just a new sock puppet for an old troll.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:19 amZooey, I emailed TP but I’ll go email Faiz directly.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:19 amTP is the fluorescent bulb with electrical screen for protection.
btbill is an insect.
Smell that?
Night-night little pest. . . . .
April 27th, 2009 at 12:21 amYou are out of her! You are out of her!
April 27th, 2009 at 12:22 amI wouldn’t bother him with it.
This troll’s about done.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:22 amI think he’s had enough “playing doctor”.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:23 amDoodlebug Shayne Says:
You are out of her! You are out of her!
April 27th, 2009 at 12:22 am
There are 2 ways we know this is not Shayne. How inadequate does one have to be to hijack someone else’s name?
April 27th, 2009 at 12:24 amHerr doctor can’t answer a simple cardiac question. He’s googling all this medical terminology, but he started out not addressing my clear question at all. Didn’t even come close.
Now he’s acting as if I’m incoherent; in a one-line clear cardiac question that every real cardiac doctor would know in a ‘heartbeat.’
dr. billy is fired…
April 27th, 2009 at 12:24 ami hope you leftists fail i’m out of her!
April 27th, 2009 at 12:26 amStill more furious googling for billy….
April 27th, 2009 at 12:28 amCorrect me if I’m wrong, but is brothabill a amalgamation of exley, mr p, trajan, mighty a.?
On second thought, aren’t they all one in the same, perhaps literally?
April 27th, 2009 at 12:28 amFear not, name hijacker. We will not fail, and we’ll make sure you have a nice “home” to live in…
April 27th, 2009 at 12:29 amDoctor my ass.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:29 amIt’s billy’s crumby keyboard that doesn’t allow him to spell “here” correctly ever.
Remember JOKER?
April 27th, 2009 at 12:29 amDFNP,
As much as I disliked Exley, I wouldn’t lump him in with those other losers. Exley was his own special kind of loser. ;)
April 27th, 2009 at 12:30 amThe last time the trolls started namejacking they were gone for quite a while. Hopefully we’ll get lucky.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:31 amTypical troll took a CPR class and thinks he’s a doctor.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:32 am“and we’ll make sure you have a nice “home” to live in…”
she’s threatening to imprison all conservatives. my god, this is there agenda, a banana republic! the leftists want a database of incarcerated political enemies like cuba! my god, help us! margaret thatcher, there is a cry all over again for freedom and WE NEED YOUR VOICE! we are being caged in!
April 27th, 2009 at 12:33 amAs the real Shayne pointed out earlier, no doctor would violate his Hippocratic oath shilling for torture.
And if he did he wouldn’t be a doctor for long. Not a licensed one anyway.
He’s just an old troll under a new handle and when his sock puppet personality began to fall apart out comes the name-jacking.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:33 amFake Doodlebug sez: she’s threatening to imprison all conservatives….
Yeah, that’s it. Time to call out the brown shirts and round up all the stupids. My evil minions are at your door!
Run away! Run away!
April 27th, 2009 at 12:34 amHow many doctors would put their career on the line say, “You go ahead and drown him, what could go wrong?”
April 27th, 2009 at 12:35 amCrickey! Sounds pretty bad.
So in case things get bad which mental institution can we reach you at?
:|
Or don’t they allow patients outside contact down under?
April 27th, 2009 at 12:36 amshayne, im doing you a favor. your free to get a good night sleep.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:37 amSorry billy, the US started dying when Karl Rove started telling lies about Democratic candidates like war hero Max Cleland to get crooks and idiots elected by chumps like you. But America has been resuscitated and will heal faster when idiots like you get out of our country.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:37 amWhat real doctor would call people “paranoid delusionals?”
That’s hilarious!
April 27th, 2009 at 12:37 amThat’s OK, you get booted by IP address for namejacking. Keep it up.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:38 amthen what did you mean zooey?????????? the crossoint and hammer is the tool of choice of leftists?
April 27th, 2009 at 12:39 amAlso Zooey, every doctor I’ve ever met will tell you there’s always some danger with even the mildest anesthesia. This idiot thinks there’s no danger to drowning somebody. He can fix it all up.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:40 amWhat our pet troll fails to realize is that we Americans, despite our many faults, have at long last gotten fed up with leaders who prove faithless. The only thing more startling than the number of seats the GOoPers have lost in the last two general elections is the number of first term legislators.
One of the reasons they have become so disjointed and erratic is that we Americans have been casting incompetents and crooks out of office at an impressive rate lately. That’s the kind of movement that, historically, gains momentum and causes great upset whether good or bad.
Contrary to the common belief of a World obsessed with war, most conflicts can be reconciled peacefully. People cleaning out their offices and handing over the keys doesn’t get any press unless thousands are killed to make it happen. But every time those keys are passed on is a new opportunity. We Americans have done it many times before and we’ve started doing it again and with each passing day it becomes more clear that we, as a nation, want the guilty to pay.
What the shrieking, shrinking, Reichwing mob doesn’t realize is that the little gang getting called “traitors” are the dwindling teabaggers and secessionists. The poor misused fools who stick up for torture and retribution and Crusades to make them feel less terrified of a world they barely perceive, much less understand. And the funniest thing is that, if there are gods, every half-assed minor demon and deity in the multiverse is laughing at their blind stupidity. It’s the one curse the gods never grow tired of.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:40 amThe USA is alive and well shithead. Recessions and depressions are historically a numerical certainty and our country has dealt with them before.
And as for hating our republican neighbors? No, we hate the bastards who have turned republicanism into “Nazi-Lite”.
We hate pieces of garbage, like you.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:41 amThis same moron who claims he can fix anybody who has aspirated water right up will probably be whining about frivolous malpractice suits any minute now.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:41 amFake Doodlebug Shayne Says:
then what did you mean zooey?????????? the crossoint and hammer is the tool of choice of leftists?
April 27th, 2009 at 12:39 am
Yes, rich buttery croissant rolls and a ball-peen hammer are my tools of choice. Submit!
Sorry, Real Shayne, but I hope this one gets to stick around. He’s funny!
April 27th, 2009 at 12:41 amfreedom is the Batista vs. tyranny’s Triple H. tyranny will go down in defeat and the winning roar will be heard from the new world heavyweight champion, Batista.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:42 amOr lab rat.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:43 amYou’re not even an expert at reading a blog.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:43 am523. brothabill Says: We used Afib and Aflutter, I have worked in all the hospitals in Portland Oregon and most hospitals in Oregon. We use Afib and Aflutter as an abbreviation
Now doktor, mission creep is unworthy of such a scumbag, well no, it isn’t. Here is what you claimed was the abbreviation:
485. brothabill Says: I guess if you want to be fundamental in an ecg sense, the difference between aflutter and afib. (and yes those ARE the abbreviations used everywhere in medicine)
So it goes from ‘afib’ to ‘Afib.’ Every real doctor knows there is, in fact, a subtle difference in the capitalizing of the “A.” No real doctor would make that error. That’s one of the lesser ways I knew you were a fraud. Your inconsistency in your posting is another red flag. Phony!
The other, of course, is that despite your long winded tantrum, YOU STILL HAVEN’T ANSWERED MY SIMPLE CARDIAC QUESTION.
What’s the difference between atrial fib and atrial flutter?
Herr doktor fakeman…
April 27th, 2009 at 12:44 amzooey what did you mean???? by “home”
April 27th, 2009 at 12:44 ambrothabill can’t even write proper English, and any doctor worth his salt wouldn’t stick around and put up with our shit.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:45 am…who likes drowning people.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:45 amFake Doodlebug Shayne Says:
zooey what did you mean???? by “home”
April 27th, 2009 at 12:44 am
What do you think I meant? If you guess correctly, I’ll tell my minions to keep the handcuffs loose.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:47 amYea you sound like a doctor. Doctors usually call people pussies and misrepresent controlled drowning as “throwing a bucket of water on someone”.
Shayne posted volumes on the detrimental medical aspects of waterboarding yet you ignored all of it.
You ignored the US Military medical disclaimer’s clear and direct warnings of respiratory and neurological damage.
And now you’re calling people “pussies” and violating your Hippocratic oath, publicly.
So no.
You’re no doctor.
You’re just an old troll with a new name.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:49 ambrother, i give up. you are a productive american. you are too good for this country. the blue states are drowning the red states with their laziness. our spending and laziness will lead to our demise.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:49 ambrothabill Says:
Blah, blah, blah, bunches of bullshit…
Oh and lets not forget lazy and obese American who is too much of a pussy to throw a bucket of water in the face of 9/11 hijackers
April 27th, 2009 at 12:45 am
I guess you haven’t worked out that this is what gives you away EVERY SINGLE TIME.
**eyes rolling**
April 27th, 2009 at 12:50 amHe learned this lingo in “med school”.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:50 ami dont know what you mean zooey. all i know is that you had the quotes around home. it looked scary like a banana republic.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:51 am547.brothabill Says: You guys are so bloodthirsty and hateful, but I am a normal person. I wake up and poop and pee. I ride my bicycle to the hospital and I help people. Why you hate me so much is just a clear demonstration of your mental capabilities
Boohoo, we’re ‘bloodthirsty;’ from the guy who refers to waterboarding as some water splashed on the face.
Relax fauxdr. billy, look at it as splashing reality in your face…
April 27th, 2009 at 12:51 amThis from a pussy who hides behind false identities, and shills for torture of other human beings because he and his family are cowards. Afraid of “terrorists”.
You’re the pussy, Bill.
You’re afraid of your own shadow.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:51 amFake Doodlebug Shayne Says:
i dont know what you mean zooey. all i know is that you had the quotes around home. it looked scary like a banana republic.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:51 am
Other than the shop in the mall, what does a Banana Republic look like?
Are you always so easily scared? since you didn’t answer the question, your “home” will have bars on the windows — for sure.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:54 amAnd you can accuse me with absolutely zero proof of me nicking your name, but doesnt make it so.
Right, but the TP IT staff can prove it numbnuts.
Buh-bye retread-retard.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:54 amThe Rethuglicants came up with all the “homeland” Nazi lingo and this turd is accuses us of looking like a banana republic. They just don’t get irony.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:55 amWell, my work here is done. ‘dr. billy’ is busted and I must retire.
Lordy, it’s not even a challenge any more. The conservatives aren’t bothering to try, just venting hate and frustration. Who would belong to a group that would have dr. fakebilly as a booster?
Thank god he’s on their side.
(Don’t be surprised if a name-jacker shows up shortly.)
April 27th, 2009 at 12:56 amI actually find it interseting, call it a sociological experiment to find how stupid people live.
There you go again, with your misuse of medical jargon.
It’s SCATOLOGICAL dimwit.
Oh, and it’s “interESting”, not “interSEting”.
DIMWIT.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:57 amSo what he saying is I’m not the first person he’s namejacked. What an idiot.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:57 amuhhh, geee, I dunno…. maybe because you simply created this sock puppet persona back then when you found this guy on the internet?
April 27th, 2009 at 12:58 amzooey a free country can go to a third world crap hole in a snap. thats why it must constantly be defended to keep freedom at its full. what did you mean by “home” was this a threat?
April 27th, 2009 at 12:58 amThe idiot can’t even remember to switch his name back. Tell us how you’ve been falsely accused again moron.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:58 amhanshiro, at a nickel a post they’re not exactly paying brain surgeons. :)
April 27th, 2009 at 12:59 ambrothabill Says:
April 27th, 2009 at 12:55 am
Uh huh. What’s your name? Somehow I think “Dr brothabill” might come up with a zero.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:59 amam i the dean of admissions of every college and university in this country? do i get to decide who succeeds and who doesnt?
April 27th, 2009 at 12:59 amTroll, stop pissin all over the place you little diaper-less infant.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:59 amDoodlebug Shayne Says:
what did you mean by “home” was this a threat?
April 27th, 2009 at 12:58 am
No, I never make threats. It was a promise.
You know how powerful I am…
April 27th, 2009 at 12:59 amFine.
Then provide the URL.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:00 amCome on.
Quick. Provide the URL.
You claim you run this site then provide the URL now.
Don’t make me ask you 20 times like you did Shayne.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:01 amNow can we get back to discussing how you are nation of pussies?
What, you got shitty, brown-stained, crooked teeth or sumthin’?
WANKER.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:02 ambrothabill looks like Arsenio Hall.
Not a doctor, and a shitty actor. :-D
April 27th, 2009 at 1:03 amI thought you said you were from Australia?
:|
Please try to stick to one story.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:04 amZooey, what gang was he in when he was Joker in Miami?
April 27th, 2009 at 1:04 ami am not interested in medical school but i am interested in the human heart. i would love to see a website covering the hear.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:04 amNow QUICK.
What’s the URL to your website?
Times a wastin.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:05 amI’m disappointed, I was hoping to read brothabill’s research, and learn all about the heart on his website. *sigh*
Now we know we were right to call him a filthy liar. Not that there was any doubt…
April 27th, 2009 at 1:05 amLatin Kings I believe.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:05 amwhat does your promise mean? are you going to imprison conservatives?
April 27th, 2009 at 1:06 amAn African Irish immigrant moving to Australia.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:06 amHe’s an Black Irish Austrailian Doctor from Africa.
:|
Or something like that.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:06 amOh so wrong, on so many levels.
First of all, the day I feel the need to lie to a stupid troll? I’ll find a nice quiet spot and snuff it. I enjoy holding the mirror of truth before their faces and watching them run and hide to much, anyway.
Second? My comments are designed for clever humans of normal temperament. The only ones I insult are those who take the names for themselves by their own choosing. I can disagree civilly with any civilized person but, alas, stupid trolls insist on making it a pissing match. Those who behave like ignorant savages need to be given a chance to correct the error of their ways. I just happen to think it’s a waste of time trying polite banter with a shrieking beast intent on a fight.
And finally, I’m old enough to be retired and I’ve lived long enough to see the changes wrought on a part of the world that had been stable for thousands of years. The decades are just a blink and I’ve seen whole cities grow and whole ecosystems die while often being, literally, a voice in the wilderness urging caution.
I used to be stupid. I was clever and quick but, I was stupid. I was stupid enough to think Nixon was an aberration. And he would have been if he had ended up in a prison. I remember my late Dad crying four times. The day my sister died, the day my Mom died, the day Nixon resigned, and the day Ford pardoned him. On the last occasion, he said, “the Presidency won’t be an honorable office in my lifetime”. He was right. I’ve been much smarter since then and I think Dad would be proud of President Obama.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:06 am:|
Who lives in Vegas.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:08 amHe’s not even trying to pretend he’s not namejacking me.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:08 amFake Doodlebug Shayne Says:
what does your promise mean? are you going to imprison conservatives?
April 27th, 2009 at 1:06 am
Of course! Haven’t you heard? After President Obama closes the prison at Guantanamo Bay, he’s going to hand it over to the liberals — and we’re going to round you up!
We drive black vans, so watch your back!
April 27th, 2009 at 1:08 amWell said Pete. Thanks.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:09 amWith pink trim tassels and jacuzzi’s in the rear.
:|
We have to have some place for our liberal debauchery.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:10 amWho went to med school in Manilla?
April 27th, 2009 at 1:10 amI guess brothabill thinks he’s some sort of performance artist.
He’d have to have even a modicum of talent to pull it off — and he doesn’t.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:11 amZOOEY, ixnay on the anvay!
April 27th, 2009 at 1:12 amWAYNEBRO Says:
Zooey Says:
We drive black vans, so watch your back!
With pink trim tassels and jacuzzi’s in the rear.
:|
We have to have some place for our liberal debauchery.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:10 am
Now you’ve ruined the surprise! :-D
April 27th, 2009 at 1:12 amI remember the good old days when we all drove VW vans … sigh …
April 27th, 2009 at 1:14 amDoodlebug Shayne Says:
ZOOEY, ixnay on the anvay!
April 27th, 2009 at 1:12 am
Oh shit. I’m in big trouble now…
April 27th, 2009 at 1:14 am564. brothabill Says: Again, I have been helping people with health advice online since 2003 and any google search can prove it. I also own and run a cardiac website answering all things about the heart lol.
Except one really simple question that any real doctor would know and answer.
You posted first a long-winded non-answer in response to my query. Cardiac doctors don’t do that. If anything they over-explain, but the best ones can encapsulate, not cut-and-paste google verbiage and try to pass themselves off as something they could never possess the intelligence to master.
You are a fraud. One that is unworthy to ever think about the practice of medicine as the Hippocratic oath is in direct opposition to your support and trivializing of waterboarding. You’re either a fraud or little better than the medieval barbers of old. Perhaps ‘brothaSweeny’ would suit you better.
Quack.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:15 amI’m so sad, billy thinks we’re all lazy failures and he’s leaving the country. How will we go on? And who’ll do the CPR from now on?
April 27th, 2009 at 1:15 amThat’s OK, we’ll paint them orange and he’ll never suspect a thing.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:15 amWell…if he wants we can waterboard him in the jacuzzi but the chlorine might sting his eyes a bit.
:|
The champagne and opium should take the edge off though.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:15 am“Dr.” McMengele seems an apt moniker. What with the eugenics stuff and all.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:16 amoh and Hey, still waiting on that URL here!
:\
hell I could have built the site by now.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:16 amaha! i exposed your tyranny. Batista will defeat Triple H, just remember that. Batista stands for freedom.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:17 amFake Doodlebug Shayne Says:
aha! i exposed your tyranny. Batista will defeat Triple H, just remember that. Batista stands for freedom.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:17 am
I’ve already had Batista in the back of my van. He’s useless to you now.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:17 amI’m going to be so the idiot is on his own with my name.
Watch your back though Billy, you should have never made me mad.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:20 amThat was bed. Sorry.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:22 amyou cant put the animal in the back of your van!
daaah!
April 27th, 2009 at 1:22 am:|
I’m not getting that URL, am I?
April 27th, 2009 at 1:22 amrepublicans hate facts you dont get sex much do you?
April 27th, 2009 at 1:23 amGood find.
Troll busted.
NEXT.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:24 amheres your URN please shut up now.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:25 amFake Doodlebug Shayne Says:
you cant put the animal in the back of your van!
daaah!
April 27th, 2009 at 1:22 am
I hope you’re not thinking you’ll ever be telling me what I can and cannot do, name hijacker. Your “home” just got down-graded.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:27 amIsn’t it funny, how when brothabill (the African-American, Irish Aussie from Detroit (where the weak are killed and eaten)) comes on board and curses the U.S. that there are no wrapped-in-the-flag, Real AmericansTM here to defend U.S.?
April 27th, 2009 at 1:30 am…who’s living in Las Vegas.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:31 amThat’s o.k. I don’t think we’re going to collapse into a sobbing heap over brothabill.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:31 amwhat does “home” MEEEEAN?
April 27th, 2009 at 1:33 ammy favorite cabinet official of all time is earl butz!
April 27th, 2009 at 1:35 amApril 27th, 2009 at 1:36 am
the bell rings ding ding ding ding I WIN!
April 27th, 2009 at 1:37 ambrothabill calls us racists, and then calls us crackers.
It’s sad when the stupid fall lower than even we thought possible.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:39 amI’ve got a job you fat, ridiculous slob. Have another shot of whatever you’re having and go blow yourself.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:39 ambigbrotha,
everyones been too polite. Here’s the point STFU.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:39 amlol, Doctor…..sure….sure. LMAO.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:40 amHe’s imploding now. The facade didn’t work so out comes the troll.
And you know what they say.
:D
You can take the troll out of the trailer park but you can’t take the trailer park out of the troll.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:42 amLet him fall apart.
He just effectively used the “N” word against us.
He’s done.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:44 amYou’re right Rich. I’ve been entirely too polite. This random f^ck should be flagged.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:44 amThink he can eat the tomatoes out of ass without getting up?
April 27th, 2009 at 1:45 amTards. My doctor always calls me a tard.
:|
The word “retard” being so medically and socially correct and all.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:45 amIt must be tough for brothabill to be an out of work, un-educated, make-up wearing, no talent, Arsenio Hall look-alike.
If I could make myself care, I’d feel sorry for the shallow-assed loser.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:47 amNahh, he’s a lightweight.
He’s harmless. He’s just imploding now so we need to just let him collapse in on himself. Like a black hole.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:48 amJust don’t stand too near the edge because it sucks in all light and matter within its event horizon.
:|
We’ll get the cleaning crew in when he’s done.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:49 amBeing an American-Latvian, i.e. Asian from Des Moines, and a nuclear physicist, I can say with all sincerity that brothabill just may be as crazy as my Uncle George.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:50 amApril 27th, 2009 at 1:53 am
See I knew it. Bill disappears until something on topic and pertinent to this subject appears.
Go back and look at the last times I’ve posted the damning evidence that is contrary to his position on waterboarding.
Each time he shows up.
This time, he just reposted a mixture of his earlier posts, mixing them up to make it look like something he just wrote.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:59 amStop whining, brothabill. You came in here with personal attacks, and can’t take it when you get it back.
You are pathetic.
April 27th, 2009 at 2:00 amYes, waterboarding is torture. And no, the people we waterboarded were not terrorists. Most of the prisoners in Guantamano weren’t guilty of any crime against the U.S. I don’t want that little fact to get lost. People were sold for a bounty. The U.S. took the word of the profiteers that the prisoners were working with Al Queda or the Taliban—guess they had to say something to that effect to get the money. And innocent people were held in a prison for years and tortured. The crimes started with taking these people captive. If Afghan or Pakistan gave a damn about these people they would have been carrying on about day 1000, and so on of the American Hostage Crisis.
April 27th, 2009 at 2:01 amAmazingly brotha is still “playing” the doctor. Kind of hard to do since his sister hasn’t come home yet.
O.k. perhaps I was too harsh saying STFU. I have been getting quite the laughs reading all of your responses. Nothing like a good chuckle at the end of the day.
On another note, we could all compare our heritage and see who can most compete with the african irish american who’s moving to Australia and presently lives in Detroit and Las Vegas and has delusions of being a doctor.
April 27th, 2009 at 2:02 amHere. Here’s everything you need to know about “brothabill”
–
April 27th, 2009 at 2:06 am
Excellent idea, Rich H.
I’m Dutch/English/Souix, and I live in Idaho, Montana, and New Orleans. I’m a nurse, a nun, and a stripper, and soon I’m moving to Kuala Lampur to be a French/Afrikaans translator.
April 27th, 2009 at 2:06 amYour moral compass is broken Bill.
You have zero credibility.
Zero.
April 27th, 2009 at 2:07 amThanks Zooey, that’s hilarious!
April 27th, 2009 at 2:10 amEffing morons. We’ve spent our way out of other holes and if the screeching Reichwhiners would pay attention they would see that the international monetary free-fall has pretty much stopped. Of course, they would then realize that many of the “handouts” are in the form of loans and bond guarantees.
And the “$10 trillion” BS is just that. All these brave Reichwhiners think the rest of the World is going to sit and whine instead of fixing things. Reasonible people are not withdrawing from the ral world and screeming, “we’re all gonna die”!
Fixing things takes money. Big effing deal! If there’s one thing we American patriots are good at? It’s making money. And we’re pretty effing good at fixing things too.
April 27th, 2009 at 2:13 amHeh. I’m glad you like it, Rich.
With that, I’m outta here. I need to go brush out my yak. He’s a mess, and it’s almost yak breeding season here in Nebraska. ;)
April 27th, 2009 at 2:13 amI’m a Cuban\Botswanian Yiddish immigrant from Finland living in Yonkers in an all male coed dorm 30 nautical miles from shore with no water in sight.
:|
Oh yea and they tell me that I’m the best 9 fingered surgeon in all the land.
April 27th, 2009 at 2:16 amWow, 665 posts. This place must have been a troll fest. I think this is the record for posts on TP.
Congratulations to everyone who played a good game of Whack-a-Troll. You have way more patience than I do.
April 27th, 2009 at 2:19 amZooey! I knew that was you from that night of fervent naked prayer on the Mississippi side of Flagstaff, overlooking the Snake River Gorge! How ya been? Did you get the grass stains out of your working habit?
Also. I forgot the Inuit phrase for, “OW! You’re on my hair”.
April 27th, 2009 at 2:19 ambrothabill,
I’m going against my rule to never address a troll. However, I come from a very educated family. I have a sister who’s a doctor and a nephew who’s a doctor. I’ve known doctors and I’ve seen doctors.
You aren’t a doctor. We only make fun of you because your not smart enough to pull this off.
April 27th, 2009 at 2:20 amHi Bilbo,
A few weeks ago there was a nutjob called Silence is Golden, he got the thread well into the 1,000’s. I think it was around 1,500 when he finally gave up.
April 27th, 2009 at 2:22 amNot even close to a record Bilbo. There have been at least two that passed a thousand.
Heh! I hit number 666 and, with that, my work is done. When I sacrifice, I mean abort, the weekly goat/human hybrid fetus at midnight? Them Reichwhiners are gonna get it.
G’night, good people.
April 27th, 2009 at 2:23 amYou too, stupid trolls, wherever you are.
You mean you have not ‘Broken’ it?
:|
And that’s why you’re in here bastardizing it as you shill for torture of the very human beings that you’ve sworn to never harm?
April 27th, 2009 at 2:25 amOh and by the way “doc”.
You capitalize “Hippocratic Oath”.
No real doctor who’s actually taken the oath would fail to do that.
April 27th, 2009 at 2:27 amAnd I’m STILL waiting for that website URL.
:|
Let me know when you’ve finished creating it.
April 27th, 2009 at 2:27 amI’m German, Yugoslavian, English, French American. My english grandfather fought my german grandfather in WWII and my French Great Uncle was a translator at the Nuremburg trials. My fathers family has been in America since the late 1600’s, my mothers family were refugees from France during WWII. It’s funny how it’s all intertwined.
O.k., it’s not funny – but true. Then of course I’m adopted so it’s not really me anyway.
April 27th, 2009 at 2:28 amWaynebro,
Well we know he’s not a PC Doctor.
April 27th, 2009 at 2:30 amI’ve got a pearly white designer baby to abort. Been saving it for a special occassion. Later.
April 27th, 2009 at 2:33 amO.k. it’s getting late. I guess I’ll sign off too. Thanks for the laughs.
April 27th, 2009 at 2:34 amWatch this.
April 27th, 2009 at 2:38 am
– The “board” is the instrument, not the method. You are not being boarded. You are being watered.
– You feel that you are drowning because you are drowning—or, rather, being drowned”
“Believe Me, It’s Torture”
Christopher Hitchens
April 27th, 2009 at 2:44 amVanity Fair, August 2008
Odd how Gingrich prefaced his comment on if water boarding is torture with the word, “honestly”?
It is not that Gingrich “Can’t tell you if it is torture”, it is he won’t.
April 27th, 2009 at 2:44 amSee?
Right on cue.
April 27th, 2009 at 2:50 amWatch. I’ll do it again.
April 27th, 2009 at 2:55 amif waterboarding does not constitute torture, then there is no such thing as torture.
“Believe Me, It’s Torture”
Christopher Hitchens
April 27th, 2009 at 2:58 amVanity Fair, August 2008
There was a paramedic present who checked my racing pulse and warned me about adrenaline rush.
An interval was ordered, and then I felt the mask come down again.
Steeling myself to remember what it had been like last time, and to learn from the previous panic attack, I fought down the first, and some of the second, wave of nausea and terror but soon found that I was an abject prisoner of my gag reflex.
April 27th, 2009 at 3:11 amApril 27th, 2009 at 3:14 am
This is what “doctor bill” calls harmless.
“Water boarding” is a potentially dangerous activity in which the participant can receive serious and permanent (physical, emotional and psychological) injuries and even death, including injuries and death due to the respiratory and neurological systems of the body.
- US Military Medical Warning Signed Prior to Waterboarding
April 27th, 2009 at 3:19 amChristopher Hitchens may be a neoconservative but at least he is capable of being honest, which is more than the good “doctor” troll here can say.
He claims to be a doctor, but we know he’s just a liar.
A liar who’s too stupid to make his position without fabricating some grandiose persona to try and garner sympathy for his position.
Christopher Hitchens is a conservative author with absolutely nothing to gain by writing this but he wanted to know, so he at least had the balls to try it. And as soon as he did, he pronounced it torture.
if waterboarding does not constitute torture, then there is no such thing as torture.
“Believe Me, It’s Torture”
April 27th, 2009 at 3:25 amChristopher Hitchens
Vanity Fair, August 2008
My flagging finger has had quite a workout this weekend. It is obvious that the only reason billy is here is to hijack as many threads as it can, for as long as it can. arguing with a troll is like wrestling a pig. In the end you just get dirty and the pig loves it too much.
April 27th, 2009 at 3:41 amNo one’s arguing with him and please don’t reduce or dismiss our countering his nonsense down to mere “arguing”.
I posted relevant information to the thread to clean up his nonsense.
April 27th, 2009 at 3:53 amWatch a video of Christopher Hitchen’s actual waterboard experience here.
See Hitchens Waterboarded
This is a mild, controlled and brief demonstration of waterboarding. Yet this one shown in the video, and one more waterboarding demonstration after a brief “rest interval” and Hitchens was done. He declared it torture without a doubt.
In two brief seconds long sessions, Hitchens, a hardened conservative, a flag waving right wing Bush loving warmongering right winger learned what the rest of us are able to discern without having to be shown.
That it hurts to drown.
:|
It hurts to stop breathing.
April 27th, 2009 at 4:00 amNewt Gingrich clearly doesn’t have the moral clarity to be President if he “cannot tell” that drowning a helpless prisoner is wrong. Or if beating a helpless prisoner, is wrong. Or starving, or hanging them from their arms and wrists, mocking them, stripping them naked and sexually humiliating them is wrong.
People who are unable as adults, to discern what is wrong with these things haven’t the moral clarity to lead anyone. Other than a bunch of fools carefully down to hell.
Most of us learn right from wrong at a young age, but some of us never do. And worse, some of those who never do are so lost in their own evil, that they work to deceive or coerce others into indulging in their heinous crimes against humanity in the name of patriotism, and courage.
People like this will never understand what most of us understand, and that is this just isn’t about them, or how bad they are. And it isn’t about what they might do to us.
It’s about who we are. It’s about what we do. Because it’s one thing to talk about being better than your enemy.
It’s another thing altogether to actually be better.
April 27th, 2009 at 4:18 amWAYNEBRO Says:
No one’s arguing with him and please don’t reduce or dismiss our countering his nonsense down to mere “arguing”.
I posted relevant information to the thread to clean up his nonsense.
————–
I was not my intention to demean anyone, except for the obvious sock puppet troll with the ever changing biography. If you feel I have offended you please breathe deep and count to 10. I was not disputing your posts. All I am stating is that billy’s posts are designed to drive the threads off topic and stir up people. I applaud when people post on topic and pawn a troll. But after a while it comes down to flagging the obviously disruptive perpetrators.
April 27th, 2009 at 4:34 amYou mean kind of like you’re doing now? Everytime someone posts on topic to try and clean up the mess that these trolls made, someone else tries to take it right back off topic.
We were back on topic. Everyone’s back on topic. I don’t want to discuss this with you I want to close the thread on topic.
So don’t respond, because I’m not interested. Unless you have something to say about waterboarding then I am not interested.
Now, if you don’t mind, I’ll say goodnite. On topic.
April 27th, 2009 at 4:51 amApril 27th, 2009 at 4:52 am
Hey Newt : Lead ,follow or get out of the way
April 27th, 2009 at 6:37 amRonald Reagan signed his name to the fact torture is illegal. So what changed with the Bush Regime? Oh that’s right! Cheney & Rumsfeld were in powerful positions and they wanted to torture just for the hell of it, so they ignored all laws and got their cohorts to get it down on paper that NOTHING IS CONSIDERED TORTURE! Anything goes!
Gingrich should be waterboarded to prove to himself that waterboarding is not torture. Sean Hannity said recently he would gladly be waterboarded for charity, but when Keith Olbermann took him up on his offer, Hannity backed down and said, “I will send a check to charity instead”. Geeeeeee, I thought waterboarding wasn’t torture and was something you did for fun, Sean!!!! Spit. Coward.
April 27th, 2009 at 7:00 amThank goodness Newt soiled himself again.
All the talk and all the promise of Newt making a presidential run just went down the toilet.
NEWT GINGRICH – The state amphibian of Georgia.
April 27th, 2009 at 7:58 amYikes! Troll alert! Troll alert!
What a bunch of idiots. I’, sick and tired of these GOP-Nazi fu*ckers. Why can’t we use our big-brother wire tapping to find these cooks and get them off the streets! Geez!
ConservativeForProgress, since you mentions my “handle” I will respond to your post:
ConservativeForProgress @476: After 472 posts, we can summarize the liberal position as follows: To use harsh interrogation techniques against terrorists including sleep deprivation and a slap to the face in a successful effort to save American lives is bad. To waterboard a conservative talk show host is good. There, I’ve saved you some time. You can thank me later.
It’s very simple. Handjobity VOLUNTIERD for the torture in is egotistical smug way. He walked right INTO IT! He is a fool! You see, Christopher Hitchens was waterboarded and if his was a TRUE professional, he would have known this and NOT EVEN WENT THERE. Handjobity is a punk!
April 27th, 2009 at 8:05 amI went to press “scroll” and all I got was “troll”.
April 27th, 2009 at 8:15 amA drywall doctor with a hard-on for torture.
I’d say that’s quite a strong candidate for the poster-boy for the GOP, if he’s not already.
HECKUVA JOB BROTHY!
April 27th, 2009 at 8:21 amMaybe Newt’s testing the waters to see if he can pull off the old “voice of moderation” trick. Makes him seem more palatable to the mainstream.
April 27th, 2009 at 8:43 amGingrich is a liar and gto trapped again,he is out of the GOP believe me i am a top advisor ofGOP and he isnt one of us.He loves to hear himself talk annd as a cheater with all his wifes waht kind of cheater president would he be hahah terrible dont weven consider hwe ownt even get him campagin off hte ground lose in 1ast primary he knows it
April 27th, 2009 at 8:44 am‘I demand an investigation into the false imprisonment of thousands of US citizens who were forced into prison camps eventhough they had committed no crime. My mistake, that atrocity was committed by a Democrat president. I am sure no one called for FDR to be tried as a war criminal. But since Bush had a little water poured on a few terrorists he is a criminal, FDR forces thousands of innocent Americans into prison camps, he is a hero. The complete and utter hypocricy of the Dems, been happening for years no chance it will ever end.’
I’m sure you’ll have the same reaction when US soldiers are subjected to the same treatment?
God knows what you’re so proud of; people like you have enabled BushCo to destroy your country, and you either don’t know it or don’t care about it.
I suggest you change your online name to ‘Shame.’
April 27th, 2009 at 8:55 amOoops! I hit “troll” instead of “scroll” again.
April 27th, 2009 at 8:57 am‘Just as I thought you idiots are just fine with the prison camps FDR used to punish thousands of Japanese Americans who had committed no crime whatsoever, but God forbid we get a little rough with a terrorist. Even O’s sock puppet Gibbs wouldn’t give a straight answer when asked if torture provided valuable information. Please confirm your collective stupidity by endorsing FDR’s prison camps over Bush’s waterboarding.’
First of all, Roosevelt’s decision to imprison Japanese Americans at the height of America’s involvement in WW2 was in no way opposed by Republicans, and it was BECAUSE of this kind of paranoid, overreaction that is now considered to be immoral and illegal.
Secondly, those ‘terrorists’ are in fact terrorist suspects, they have only been ACCUSED of criminal activity, not convicted of any, very few actually have been convicted.
If you want to live in a country which sanctions torture and ignores the law, fine; North Korea will welcome you.
If you want to live in the US however, start acting like you deserve to; torture is ILLEGAL, and that is all you need to know about it, not to mention that it’s ineffective.
What could possibly be difficult in that for you to understand?
April 27th, 2009 at 9:01 amMy dearest ConservativeForProgress:
Your screen name says so much. First Conservatives are NOT FOR progress – they are for things STAYING the same which is not progress that’s STAGNATION. That said, “progress” means looking at the past, cleaning it up today (if necessary) so our future is better. Humans learn from their mistakes – our neocon GOP rulers have made many. If they’d get off this stubborn “no, no, no” crap, and admit they were wrong; we wouldn’t be having these lengthy discussions in the first place.
April 27th, 2009 at 9:05 am‘Having said that, if Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was actually waterboarded “183 times” as alleged, either he is one tough dude, or it is not nearly as bad as everyone thinks.’
I hear the same sort of comments from survivors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki; not EVERYONE was killed by atomic bombs, so how bad were they REALLY?
April 27th, 2009 at 9:06 amWOW! TP did some “house cleaning!
682 actual posts
April 27th, 2009 at 9:07 am710 total posts
28 were JUST yanked
“If Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was actually waterboarded “183 times” as alleged …. ”
He’d be brain dead and babbling crap like our trolls …..
April 27th, 2009 at 9:13 am‘O Max you idiots on the left have been spitting on the US for years and now you want anyone to take any of you seriously, on any subject. I enjoy posting here because of the laughter you all provide. Even your precious messiah Obama is trying to distance himself from the your ilk.’
That’s typical of your kind; you allow BushCo to destroy the country, Iraq, the environment and the economy, but ‘leftists’ have been spitting on the US for years now.
It’s the Right that has beatified the likes of Ronnie Raygun, and now the poster boy for mental lightweights, Gee Dumbya.
Your ignorance is matched only by your moral apathy.
You want to live in country that secretly sanctions torture?
I’m sure North Korea will welcome another citizen it can starve to death.
April 27th, 2009 at 9:14 amConservativeForProgress Says:
The level of attention given to these terrorist’s rights issues are clearly designed to divert attention away from Obama’s broken promises and failure as a president. Time to “move on”/progress, or do you want to keep looking backwards?
I think people confuse “progress” with “ignorance”. Progress should be considered an action where one moves towards a goal. While some consider “eyes on the prize” to be a suitable motto for such a term, people also must understand that, for there to be progress, there must be a clear comprehension of the successes and failures in the past. The Obama Administration should not be walking forwards without looking behind them, but they should also not be walking backwards away from the past.
I feel that was a gaffe by the Obama Administration, to word their ways of progress as one where they must keep moving forward without looking at the past. A sense of history and a deep appreciation for it should be a strong quality for any politician, period.
It is time to “move on”, CFP, but it’s also time to “progress” by understanding that the past contained the incorrect method for fighting for the future.
April 27th, 2009 at 9:21 amIt’s not good when a celebrated “know it all” claims he doesn’t know it all.
If Newt doesn’t understand that waterboarding is torture, I hope he is tortured with due ridicule for the rest of his life.
April 27th, 2009 at 11:26 amgummitch:
This is a nice use of semantics:
“…The media usually characterize the practice (waterboarding) as “simulated drowning.” That’s incorrect. To be effective, waterboarding is usually real drowning that simulates death…”
“That is, the victim experiences the sensations of drowning: struggle, panic, breath-holding, swallowing, vomiting, taking water into the lungs and, eventually, the same feeling of not being able to breathe that one experiences after being punched in the gut…”
Which is, of course, “simulated drowning.” It’s not “real drowning” unless you’re “really dead.” When you hear on the news of someone drowning, you don’t ask how the person is doing because you know the person “really” drowned and is “really” dead.
Waterboarding is what it is. If one feels the need to make it something it isn’t, it makes it sound like maybe it’s not so bad after all.
April 27th, 2009 at 1:29 pmTorture denial is like holocaust denial. The GOP and the trolls who blindly follow them like sheep being sent to the slaughter are no different than the Nazis. I say waterboard them all and see if they deny waterboarding is torture then.
April 27th, 2009 at 7:55 pmGINGRICH: I — I — I think it’s — I can’t tell you.
It’s a seeeekrit!
.
Philip50 Says:
I would love to answer all your prior questions…
I keep seeing this a lot, where wingnuts think they’re holding court to a variety of questions posted to them. This ain’t your personal blog. We aren’t here for you.
I BELIEVE THAT TORTURE IS ILLEGAL.
…
I believe that Pres. Bush did what he believed to be his duty, however much I, or any of you, may second-guess his decisions.
If Pres. Bush gave the order to torture people, do you believe he broke the law? (torture is illegal, so if Bush ordered torture…?)
.
Except in the rarest of cases, I do not believe it is of any value, and in fact is likely to do great harm, to attempt to criminalize the prior interrogation techniques in the difficult and uncertain 9/11 environment.
If it was already criminal, do you believe those laws should be enforced?
.
So, in context, waterboarding does not appear to have been a common practice, so magnifying its significance out of proportion only damages our country further as a propaganda tool for our adversaries.
It’s starting to look increasingly common. A lot of other techniques are starting to come out. I think it’s pretty likely that once the whole story has come out, waterboarding will be the tip of a very, very ugly iceberg. But waterboarding is still torture.
.
He also believes that it is okay to murder a child that was born in a botched abortion, so let’s talk about the value of human life!
The Illinois law that he voted against did in fact include not requiring a doctor to try to save the life of an infant accidentally born during a botched abortion, that is true. What is also true is that it was already illegal under Illinois law for a doctor to fail to try to save the life of an infant accidentally born during a botched abortion. The law Obama voted against therefore did not change that legal status at all, but it also added a number of restrictions that he disagreed with.
If you really believe that Obama wants accidentally-born children to be allowed to die, then you’ve been lied to.
.
I agree with Obama’s campaign position on NOT attempting to criminalize actions of the prior administration with which he may have fundamental disagreement (that is why we have elections), including the definitions of what constitutes “torture”.
I disagree with Obama’s position.
We don’t have elections on what constitutes “torture.”
This would harm the body politic and “what goes around, comes around”, and Obama knows this!
From what I’ve seen, Obama isn’t planning on giving any orders to break the law, as did Bush/Cheney. He thus has nothing to fear.
.
The person who had the best opportunity to take out Osama Bin Laden before 9/11 was Bill Clinton. Sudan tried to give him up, and at another time we had him in our sites in Afghanistan from a drone if Clinton had given the green light.
That’s another thing you’ve been lied to about.
Besides, the person who would have had the best opportunity to “take out” OBL would be Reagan or Bush I, both of whom participated in arming him.
.
I believe that Gingrich was right to withhold judgment on weather waterboarding, as it was conducted, the details of which we do not fully know, was in fact “torture”.
Waterboarding is torture. It has always been torture before Bush came along, and it’s torture today.
.
McCain has earned the right to take such a stand, and I respect his opinion as a former POW who was subjected to much harsher techniques.
Then respect it. America does/should not torture people.
.
I challenge each of you to first tell me ANYTHING and EVERYTHING that I said that you agree with.
Okay. Here are the following statements you made that I agree with. There’s quite a bit:
I readily concede that I am outnumbered on this site.
I BELIEVE THAT TORTURE IS ILLEGAL.
I do not want my country to engage in torture.
Our treatment of prisoners should by consistent with the ideals of the value of human life that we hold dear.
I agree that there are likely much more productive and reliable techniques to elicit valuable information.
I believe it is likely that some individuals engaged in torture on behalf of the United States, which, without knowing context, is unfortunate, wrong, and perhaps even criminal.
I believe that most of our brave intelligence and military personnel did what they believed to be their duty to their country.
If we were excessive in our interrogation techniques, those responsible should be at the least admonished and retrained.
Waterboarding sounds like torture to me
I believe that we should make every effort to abide by the Geneva Convention
I believe Pres. Obama is doing a credible job
McCain has earned the right to take such a stand
If only you’d just stopped there, we’d be on the same side!
April 27th, 2009 at 10:23 pmbrothabill sounds like someone we need to be protected from.
.
Bilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
Wow, 665 posts. This place must have been a troll fest. I think this is the record for posts on TP.
Nope. I’ve seen worse. However, many of those have been far less on-topic.
.
labman57 Says:
I actually agree with Philip50’s main comment: Torture is illegal. The rest of his dissertation is the intellectual and cogent equivalent of Hamburger Helper.
I don’t see how somebody can put “TORTURE IS ILLEGAL” and then follow that with why none of the people involved in or responsible for torture should be prosecuted, why all acts of torture should be swept under the rug, whether the torture is really torture and whether acts of torture should be “criminalized” (I thought it was already illegal?)
.
Philip50 Says:
For example, nobody on here witnessed these alleged water boardings, so it is not black and white whether that constitutes torture…
Waterboarding is torture.
But let’s entertain your proposition – some wingnuts have disregarded waterboarding as nothing more than “dunking,” or “splashing.” Outraged liberals have described waterboarding in the most horrific terms possible. Presumably what actually happened lies between those two extremes.
Which end of that scale do you think our interrogators erred on?
If they went easy on the detainees, then why bother? If they really believed that everyone they had in captivity were die-hard Al-Qaeda terrorists, would they really just splash a little water on them? Or would they make it a nightmare? If they didn’t actually cross whatever imaginary grey-area line you’re thinking of, then they weren’t really doing their jobs now, were they?
.
Philip50 Says:
But waterboarding is used in training our own military under controlled circumstances.
Yes. Training to resist torture.
.
Philip50 Says:
Under similar conditions with a prisoner in which he knew he would not actually die, one could argue that such treatment did not rise to the definition of torture in the Geneva Convention.
Why would an Al-Qaeda member held by the CIA in a black site think he wasn’t going to actually die?
.
Philip50 Says:
Again, the Convention does not specifically refer to waterboarding as some posters have implied.
We hung people for it in WWII.
Does the Geneva convention have to explicitly spell out every possible torture technique that could be dreamed of? If someone thinks of something that wasn’t spelled out, do they get to do it? The Geneva Convention doesn’t mention performing surgical castration, do we get to do that?
.
Philip50 Says:
Incidentally, the “rich” already pay a disproportionately large share of the taxes. Taxing them more is bad business and inherently unfair.
Incidentally, Obama is merely proposing going back to the tax scale we had in the 90’s. Remember the 90’s, when the economy was doing really well?
.
Philip50 Says:
I know this will break your hearts, but no more casting pearls before swine for me today.
I was just thinking I could use a river. Cry me one.
April 27th, 2009 at 10:39 pmbrothabill Says:
And yes, although I am an Irish citizen whose parent immigrated to Detroit. My family came from Africa and I am a black man so stop with the racist attacks as well.
Bernie Mac, in Charlie’s angel 2: “Ain’t you ever heard of the Black Irish? Lucky Charms? Shamrock Shake?”
April 27th, 2009 at 10:44 pmThanks Sites Sesli Sohbet
April 30th, 2009 at 8:37 amSesli Chat
SesliSohbet
SesliChat