House passes budget with zero GOP votes.
By on Apr 29th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
House passes budget with zero GOP votes.
Today, the House passed President Obama’s $3.4 trillion budget outline by a vote of 233-193. However, all House Republicans voted against the plan:
Not a single Republican voted for the measure; 17 Democrats, mostly from GOP-leaning districts, voted against it. The Senate will vote on the measure Wednesday afternoon.
The House GOP also voted in unison against the stimulus package in February — despite President Obama’s aggressive bipartisan outreach. In January, Rep. Eric Cantor (R-VA) said that “it would be a great mistake for the House GOP to turn inward and simply become the party of ‘no.’”
Update Yglesias writes that “there still are quite a few House Republicans who represent districts Obama won. Some of them, like Joseph Cao and Mike Castle represent districts that Obama won handily. When you add into the mix the fact that John Boehner really has no inducements at his disposal to offer to members, it’s a real testament to the success of the Club for Growth and others at inspiring fear of primaries into every single Republican member.”
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Time to change the elephant symbol to a child in a corner holding its breath.
April 29th, 2009 at 2:43 pmBoy, the Republicans sure showed us huh?
News update: GOP approval rating just dropped 5%.
Keep up the good work boys.
April 29th, 2009 at 2:45 pmThere’s one thing that you can say about Republicans. They are united in hatred.
April 29th, 2009 at 2:46 pmCry, whine, hold your breath, puke on your shoes Boner, you are still irrelevant. Repugnants are too simple to negotiate with so why try? They see the world as black/white and are proud of the fact that they are obstinate.
Roll over them and leave the carcasses to rot by the curb.
April 29th, 2009 at 2:48 pmOnce again the GOP = the Party of NO.
April 29th, 2009 at 2:49 pmI can’t wait until 2010 and 2012. I know Boehner and Cantor swear they’ve done something so great. ROTFL! Good luck filling up that tent! AHAHAHAHAHA!
April 29th, 2009 at 2:50 pmOld Goat Says:
Time to change the elephant symbol to a child in a corner holding its breath.
Pick whatever symbol you like. I’m choosing the maze symbol, since the Party of No seems they will continue to wander aimlessly as they attempt to shrug off Democratic power and hope for a sea change of their own.
April 29th, 2009 at 2:50 pmThe tactic of the GOP telling moderate Republicans that unless they vote the party line, they’ll find someone more conservative to run against them in the primary is only going to work for so long. Specter was the first, but he won’t be the last.
April 29th, 2009 at 2:50 pmAre the Republicans for anything, or just against everything?
April 29th, 2009 at 2:51 pmRecovery act: NO
Budget: NO
Cabinet Approvals: NO
Anything Obama: NO
2010 Reelections: NO
April 29th, 2009 at 2:53 pm#9
Yes the Republicans ARE for something…cutting taxes for the top 3% of the population.
April 29th, 2009 at 2:54 pmWhat happened to representing one’s district? That every Republican voted “no” shows the party is more important than citizen representation. What are the odds that the majority in 176 districts disagree with the Obama budget?
April 29th, 2009 at 2:54 pmI’m choosing the maze symbol, since the Party of No seems they will continue to wander aimlessly as they attempt to shrug off Democratic power and hope for a sea change of their own.
I’m partial to the Icarian Party, with all the relevent sybolism.
April 29th, 2009 at 2:55 pmBut we’d better give them what they want or else! They might not be so cooperative next time! I’m waiting for the next time one of them tries that “threat.”
April 29th, 2009 at 2:57 pmConsidering the bonuses paid , and the fox in charge of the hen house approach to the worlds largest heist and the fact that this is all borrowed money is everyone here so sure that this is a democratic victory ?
April 29th, 2009 at 2:57 pmfrom democracy now :
As far as policy is concerned, unless [Obama] is under a lot of pressure from activist sectors, he’s not going to go beyond what he’s presented himself as in actual policy statements or cabinet choices and so on: a centrist Democrat [who’s] going to basically continue Bush’s polices, maybe in a more modulated way,” says Chomsky.
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/4/13/noam_chomsky_on_the_global_economic
Really though, what will their message be when the economy improves? All the budgetary handwringing will be viewed as Anti-American, when the economy begins to thrive again.
April 29th, 2009 at 2:58 pmOld Goat — I choose the symbol of freedom, where the tent is wide and the Kentucky Fried Chicken smells deelicious!
April 29th, 2009 at 2:58 pmThe Chicago boys ?
April 29th, 2009 at 3:00 pmI’m betting the sparkle is fading fast on that magical 2012 Republican election…
All the more reason for us not to become complacent.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:01 pmLeather-skin bone-head with his store bought tan maintained through winter has more important things to attend to.
Fiscal responsibility is not repubs forte, they’ve proven that. All they have is total obstruction, so what good are they?
April 29th, 2009 at 3:03 pmNo thank you, Patsy, we’ve had 8 years of fascism. We’re done now.
Onward.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:04 pmThey’re voting no on everything, and we’re still getting things done and improving the country and the world.
Proving yet again that it doesn’t really matter what the Rushpublicans do or don’t do; increasingly, they’re the party of the irr-elephant…
April 29th, 2009 at 3:04 pmIf this doesn’t convince Obama that there is NO such thing as bipartisonship as far as the Rethuglic party goes, I don’t know what will.
Screw bipartisonship! Ram Democratic reforms and programs down their throats until their pips squeak. They brought it on themselves.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:05 pmBoner blew out all the green yea lights on the Repub side when he installed his tanning salon.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:05 pmI am not an economist and have no moneys in the stock market but I suspect that this bailout is liable to be the real coup de gras and represents about as much change as our new presidents defence of torturers and telecom companies .
April 29th, 2009 at 3:06 pmWhy on earth would the repugs vote against a budget that mirrors Bush’s budget over the past couple of years. They are unbelievable hypocrites.
Goat, you and everyone else on this site have done for the word fascist what you did for the word racist. Neither means anything anymore because you have used it as a pauper uses money, without thought.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:06 pmI agree with Ho, why would the party in power court the losers? Bi-partisanship isn’t what the American people voted for in November. They voted for the Democrats to run this country. Get on with it.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:07 pmI ask and answer my own question: What do right wingers mean when they claim our children and grandchildren will foot the bill for President Obama’s spending? The fearmongering has one believing that the government will mail an invoice to every American’s mailbox. Thing is, President Obama’s kind of spending invests in economic indicators that will almost guarantee payment of the deficit in the form of a re surging economy. Deficits skyrocketed under George Bush’s “boom” because of massive wasteful military spending. Deficits continue to go up in this case because of the recession and the spending necessary to keep us out of a depression. Big difference here.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:07 pmAmerican Pansy Says:
Fascism?
I think your confusing that word with your request for a Facial.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:08 pmAmerican Pantsy: FASCISM?
April 29th, 2009 at 3:08 pmAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHHAHAAHHAHHHAHHAAHAHAHHAHHHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! NO.
Fine person to be telling me about doing ANYTHING without thought, drew… come to fabricate some stories in this thread?
Battle on, chummer… I don’t feed on your garbage.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:09 pmGet yur “Ism Peanuts” here! Hot “Ism Peanuts” here!
April 29th, 2009 at 3:10 pmFeed the elephants with “Ism Peanuts”! Get yur “Ism Peanuts” here!
“House passes budget with zero GOP votes.”
Nothing knew. The Party of No are equivilent to the Pharoah: They will stick to their guns to criticize, attack, and vote no on any bill that Obama sends through Congress. Like the Pharoah whose entire army was wiped out completely by Moses parting the sea, the question is how many of the Party of No up for re-election will be wiped out in the 2010 election.
Specter made a surprise announcement yesterday to switch to the Democratic Party. The question is who else from The Party of No will jump ship between now and 2010 election.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:10 pm.
G(no)P
.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:11 pmBeetle, you don’t know what the word fascist means either.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:12 pmOK, drew, give us your 3rd-rate definition of fascism.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:12 pmEnlighten us, Drew… perhaps your definition of Fascism will be as correct as your definition of “hate crime”.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:12 pmlarkohio Says:
Are the Republicans for anything, or just against everything?
They are only for the Republican party and contributes.
All they have is a wish for US failure so they can boast later during election time of voting against bills.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:13 pmI gotta admit that is a huge budget…
April 29th, 2009 at 3:13 pmGoat, you will swallow anything.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:13 pmThe words ‘fascism’ and ‘racism’ have been doled out extensively because both have been the creeping reality over the last eight years. Ever get a read of the 14 Points of Fascism?
April 29th, 2009 at 3:14 pmMeg, are you a 9/11 truther. Your paranoia is showing. Better get back to that bone you just sparked and enjoy those cheetos.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:15 pmCome on, drew… definition of fascism.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:16 pmAfter that, explain how WE are fascists.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:18 pmAnyone with a brain realizes that Bush sucked as a president, but a fascist? Exactly what race of people did he euthanize? Which bank or auto company did he take over? According to people like you he couldn’t walk and chew gum at the same time, much less get the trains running on time. You have to do all of those things to be called, credibly, a fascist. Regardless, the best historians the world has to offer can’t agree on when fascism ends and socialism/communism begins. I doubt you can straighten the word out.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:18 pmdrew, are you going to give us your wisdom and define fascism? Or are you going to limit your posts to labelling other posters?
April 29th, 2009 at 3:19 pmAnyone with a brain knows that it was Cheney who was running the country.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:19 pmI can hardly wait until all the future election days when I get to cast my vote for the republican candidates (every last one of them on the ticket) in same way the republicans have voted on Obama’s issues.
No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, and finally No.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:19 pmDictionary.com defines fascism thus:
a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
No mention of euthanasia, idiot.
I believe you’re back on your Nazi kick, drew.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:20 pmGoat, see your post at 22. You referred to the last 8 years as fascist. Ridiculous! People like you need to realize that words mean things. Bush was a fascist like President Obama is a racist.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:21 pmstill waiting on a definition for “fascism” pwn3rd.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:21 pmOr, did you also confuse it with your dire need for a facial?
Drew. Time to move on, your defenition of “fascist” is based on your own twisted views.
Time to move on.
Done with ya.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:23 pmdrew3rdgrader;
April 29th, 2009 at 3:23 pmI’m surprised to see you here, considering that you got your ass thoroughly whumped on another thread earlier today.
You really ARE a glutton for punishment.
Fascism can’t be defined because it is the worst of all political excess. Don’t use the word to describe a president of the United States. It diminishes the evil of Mussolini’s Italy and Hitler’s Germany.
The one thing all historians agree upon is that you must have a dictator to have fascism. Does that sound like a president of the United States? Only Abraham Lincoln suspended hasbeus corpus. That is as close as we’ve come. I think we’d all agree that Lincoln wasn’t a fascist, he was a visionary.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:24 pmDrew, how is Meg a 9/11 truther?
You tend to choose words for sound rather than meaning.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:25 pmBy the way, drew, see 51 for the defintion. It clearly defines the previous administration quite well.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:26 pmAccording to Chomsky ,Tim Geithner was head of the New York Federal Reserve,his plan is not very different from the Bush-Paulson plan.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:26 pmRobert Rubin lead the way to revoke the Glass-Steagall legislation from the New Deal, which protected commercial banks from risky investments. joined Citigroup as a director making huge profits .
Larry Summers, Obama’s chief economic adviser. was Secretary of Treasury under Bill Clinton. His great achievement was to prevent Congress from regulating derivatives.
The same people who created this crisis are the ones overseeing the bailout ! You guys are sounding like the lefts version of redstate on this thread !
The same people who created this crisis are the ones overseeing the bailout ! You guys are sounding like the lefts version of redstate on this thread !
Ho, you have a funny way of looking at whupping me. I remembver none of you would discuss hate crime legislation. you kept wanting to blame Bush for the floods in North Dakota. You guys wouldn’t touch the ramifications of prosecuting someone for their thoughts.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:26 pmdrew3rd Says:
Meg, are you a 9/11 truther. Your paranoia is showing. Better get back to that bone you just sparked and enjoy those cheetos.
No, I’m not a 9/11 truther. Just living in the real world where the GOP is a shrinking fringe minority and their fried chicken tastes like crap.
And to make light of reality further, I won’t be taking orders from an internet tough guy with no prospects of regaining power. You are in the minority. You need to stop standing in the way just because progress isn’t your bright idea.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:27 pmdrew, words have definition.
You… are clearly definined as well.
Close the door on your way out.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:27 pmGoat, you old fool. That is ONE definition of fascism. In 2006, the greatest living historians were unable to decide exactly what a fascist government is. the only thing they could agree on was that there is always a dictator.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:27 pmpwnd3rd Says:
Fascism can’t be defined…
Thanks for admitting you have no idea what it means!
April 29th, 2009 at 3:28 pmI mercifully accept your defeat.
Now, about that facial you’re interested in…
For all intents and purposes, Mussolini invented fascism and he wasn’t a big genocide guy. Hitler added that bit when he adopted the name for his infant Nazi party. Just like everything else associated with Hitler, even fascism was twisted and perverted by his insanity.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:28 pmFascism:
A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator = “unitary executive”
stringent socioeconomic controls = deregulation, no-bid contracts, military-industrial complex
suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship = “alert” system, no protest town halls, no photos of returning KIA, “mushroom clouds”
belligerent nationalism = “American exceptionalism”, critics as unpatriotic, “with us or against us”
drew can’t see the forest because of the Bush.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:28 pmHow about you stop ruining the word so that when there really is a fascist government, people will actually listen to you.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:29 pmYes, that would be the definition found in the dictionary.
Psst, I am done with you.
There is an adage I learned awhile ago:
“You cannot reason with the unreasonable.”
And so, I am done with you. The unreasonable will continue to crow. The reasonable know when to just leave it.
I am leaving it. You, on the other hand will continue to crow.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:30 pmbarfly Says:
I’m partial to the Icarian Party, with all the relevent sybolism.
April 29th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
____________
And yet they’ll continue to salute Reagan for deregulating the wax wing industry.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:30 pmTheir NOs will come at a terrible price. I hope they all lose their next elections! Ratbastids!
April 29th, 2009 at 3:30 pmDo you REALLY believe that the Bush administartion looks like Mussolini’s Italy or Nazi Germany? PFFFTTT, Please!
April 29th, 2009 at 3:30 pmFascism is the merging of business and government…well that has been going on for some time now. Except that it isnt the government running business but the business running, basically, government. Under Bush it was called privatization.
Lets also not forget, Drew, that the TARP/automotive bailout was done under the Bush/Cheney/Paulson/Bernanke leadership.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:31 pmOddly enough, I think he has a point. Bandying about a term like fascism waters down the actual meaning and gravitas of the word, much like how the right is throwing out accusations of socialism, collectivism and communism at any given moment to suit their needs.
However, the increasing concentration on wealth in the upper tiers of society, conglomeration of media outlets and increasingly coporate-friendly fiscal policy could be seen as subtle moves toward a kind of corporate fascism; one which does not need a single dictator other than as a figurehead.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:31 pmI’m glad to see that everyone here is so smart they have given 30 different definitions of fascism while telling me it is singularly definable. You make the word as meaningless as the word racist.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:32 pmWags, you are a genius! That’s exactly what I was saying. It is important that we be vigilant against overuse so we don’t end up like the repugs who’ve done exactly as you say. Socialist! Communist! We laugh at them, but what if an actual communist shows up? Will we even care? We’ll shrug the word off.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:33 pmdrew3rd Says:
I’m glad to see that everyone here is so smart they have given 30 different definitions of fascism while telling me it is singularly definable. You make the word as meaningless as the word racist.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
__________
Exactly. There is no one definition, but we know it when we see it.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:33 pmdrew3rd Says:
The one thing all historians agree upon is that you must have a dictator to have fascism. Does that sound like a president of the United States?
April 29th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
___________
What’s the difference between a leader placed in power by corporate and moneyed interests and a leader elected to power after having been chosen by corporate and moneyed interests?
Fascism can happen in a democracy. Don’t kid yourself.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:34 pmFascism is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology. [IE the unitary executive/federalists][1][2][3][4] Fascism is also a corporatist economic ideology [Kochtopus] [5] Fascists advocate the creation of a single-party state [What Rove wanted]
April 29th, 2009 at 3:34 pmSigh…
There are, and always have been, fascists since the end of WW2. They’ve pretty short on dictators though, since the little corporal screwed it up.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:34 pmDru,
April 29th, 2009 at 3:35 pmDespite the O/Topic ness and all the political narcissism going on on this thread I offer you this clip from Naomi Wolf on the Bush Presidency .
If you are really interested .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWc
OH, this OUTTA be GOOD!
April 29th, 2009 at 3:35 pmpwnd3rd, please explain to us how racism cannot be defined.
If we have a unitary executive, that abrogates the checks and balances. Dont you recall the republicans saying that Dubya was above the law?
April 29th, 2009 at 3:35 pmSo much for facts republican. Mussolini tortured citizens, we’ve tortured the masterminds of 9/11. Italy was socialist, there was no corporate fascism in Italy, only collectivism.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:36 pmForget a dictionary, get a mirror out, Drew.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:37 pmXisthrus, do you REALLY believe Bush was the supreme ruler of our country. I don’t know about you but he actually lost congres in 2004 and was unable to continue many of his policies. You act like he was running amok like a Castro or Chavez and making himself presidente for life. He did his eight years and now he’s gone. Some dictator.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:37 pmWhy are you screaming republican? Are you pounding the table because you can’t pound the facts?
April 29th, 2009 at 3:38 pmNobody’s claiming the U.S. is full-fledged fascism, only that we were headed in that direction. If you look at the current state of the GOP, under the direction of Boehner and his ilk, just imagine how much further along into a dictatorial state we’d be if the GOP retained and expanded power. Imagine a President John A Boehner. Obviously there are glimmers of hope because Obama was elected. Out of the power grab of the last eight years, you’ve had an electorate become increasingly vile and unhinged in their rhetoric. They couldn’t possibly bear to let up their minority dominance, and they obviously can’t stand it today.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:38 pmOh dear lawd!
April 29th, 2009 at 3:39 pmNow pwnd3rd is afraid of the commies!
What, the openness to talk with Cuba got your panties in a bunch?
Meg, are we heading towards fascism? I know president Obama has nationalized banks, GM and Chrysler, but hes no dictator. we get to decide if he continues in four years and he gets 8 max. We will never be a fascist state.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:40 pmNot quite. Depending on the time frame you’re referring to, there were elements of both operating simultaneously.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:42 pmApril 29th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
Secret prisons ,
April 29th, 2009 at 3:43 pmno habeas corpus ,
torture,
using the military as police ,
domestic surveillance ,
rigging elections and stacking the courts which oversee election results within each state ,
creating an imaginary nemisis ,
going to war for resources ,
jailing reporters ,
Circumventing the law through the use of a unitary executive with dictatorial powers ( signing statements )
Blanket warrants ( national security letters ,
I could go on and on dru !!!!!!!
The Republican Party has gone “all in” for fascism. If you don’t believe me, go google “14 fascism” and compare each of the points to the Republican Party. You will find that they are strongly fascist in about 12 of the 14 points.
Fascism has come to America, and it is the Republican Party.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:44 pmCould this be a record?
drew3rdgrader got his ass waxed on 2 threads today in a matter of only a few hours.
Way to go my fellow liberals.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:44 pmdrew3rd Says:
Italy was socialist, there was no corporate fascism in Italy, only collectivism.
According to what you have been teaching us, Professor Dumberthanadoor, “fascism” and “socialism” cannot be adequately defined and identified. So, Professor, how can you categorically say that there was no corporate fascism in Italy?
April 29th, 2009 at 3:45 pmAs for fascist being overused, I agree, it became pejorative some time ago…..
April 29th, 2009 at 3:45 pmThe only real question that remains here is if Obama does these things will he be opposed by the party faithful ?
April 29th, 2009 at 3:45 pmSee, if goat doesn’t use a word he doesn’t understand, we could continue talking about the fact that the repugs are fighting a budget they basically signed last year and how stupid they appear. Instead, the mental giants of Think Progress are fixated on calling an American presidency fascist when he isn’t even in office anymore. Repugs will come to this board and laugh at how loonie everyone sounds. I can’t stand you loonie lefties. We are in charge. Why do we continue to be fixated on administartion that is not running anything anymore?
April 29th, 2009 at 3:45 pmXisthrus, you are correct. In 1944 George Orwell was talking about how the word had become meaningless and indefinable. We need to use it to describe truly dictatorial regimes that rule their people by putting them under their boot. That ISN’T America.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:47 pmShorter draw3rd: “ME AM BIZARRO DEMOCRAT! ME HATE OBAMBI AND WARSHIP BUSH! FACIST IS SUPER BAD WORD THAT MUST ONLY BE USED TO REFER TO PRESIDENT HUSSEIN! WHY YOU LOONY LIBS MAKE ME LOOK BAD?”
April 29th, 2009 at 3:48 pmAnd yet DEWIE spent the morning teabagging Boehner.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:49 pmAccountability.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:49 pmYou guys sound like a bunch of crazies. America isn’t close to Italy or Germany circa 1939. Are you all THAT unhinged? Get it together man. The republicans are fighting a budget they signed a year ago and you want to call America fascist? You’re CRAZY!
April 29th, 2009 at 3:49 pmThis from the idiot who thinks Hitler was a liberal. Irony.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:50 pmdrew doesn’t seem to comprehend the fact that political and economic systems operate on various continuums with blends of democracy, monarchy, dictatorship, capitalism, socialism, communism, and fascism. Under Bush fascism elements were more pronounced.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:50 pmBut everyone here is overjoyed at the great victory the democrats have achieved in the passage of this budget with no questions asked and that I find very frightening indeed !
April 29th, 2009 at 3:52 pm“Where everyone thinks the same …. no one is thinking very much “.
back of a celestial seasonings tea box
We are not crazy just because we don’t agree with you. We have seen fascism in how the Republican Party is behaving, and so we voted them out of power before we got another Hitler. That’s why Democracy is so nice, you can vote the fascists out of power.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:53 pmI’ll tell you what is pronounced. Your Bush derangement. He’s gone, who gives a crap. If he were a fascist, he’d still be there and we would all be fighting to remove him and return our country to the constitution. That didn’t happen. Our country still works. Now we have president Obama and we can move forward as we always do. Keep using the word fascist and racist for people who are not fascist and racist. You sound stupid and diminish the import of those words.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:53 pmAmerica isn’t close to Italy or Germany circa 1939.
No one here is making this comparison. The republican administration showed definite signs of embracing fascism in the last 8 years. They should be held accountable for this. The current administration is more ‘for the people’ than Bush was. The current direction is much better.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:56 pmDrew, google “14 fascism” and ask yourself if any of those 14 points sounds like the Republican Party. I understand why you don’t want us to call you and your party fascists, but that to damn bad.
When Republicans got behind torture, they showed their fascist underbelly.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:56 pmConsidering the bonuses paid , and the fox in charge of the hen house approach to the worlds largest heist and the fact that this is all borrowed money is everyone here so sure that this is a democratic victory ?
from democracy now :
As far as policy is concerned, unless [Obama] is under a lot of pressure from activist sectors, he’s not going to go beyond what he’s presented himself as in actual policy statements or cabinet choices and so on: a centrist Democrat [who’s] going to basically continue Bush’s polices, maybe in a more modulated way,” says Chomsky.
According to Chomsky ,Tim Geithner was head of the New York Federal Reserve,his plan is not very different from the Bush-Paulson plan.
Robert Rubin lead the way to revoke the Glass-Steagall legislation from the New Deal, which protected commercial banks from risky investments. joined Citigroup as a director making huge profits .
Larry Summers, Obama’s chief economic adviser. was Secretary of Treasury under Bill Clinton. His great achievement was to prevent Congress from regulating derivatives.
The same people who created this crisis are the ones overseeing the bailout ! You guys are sounding like the lefts version of redstate on this thread !
The same people who created this crisis are the ones overseeing the bailout !
I am not an economist and have no moneys in the stock market but I suspect that this bailout is liable to be the real coup de gras and represents about as much change as our new presidents defence of torturers and telecom companies .
http://www.democracynow.org/ 2009/ 4/ 13/ noam_chomsky_on_the_global_economic
April 29th, 2009 at 3:57 pm…says the guy who can’t seem to separate “fascism” from “totalitarianism”.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:57 pmfreeman, why are you spaming the same article?
FLAGGED AS SPAMMER!
April 29th, 2009 at 3:59 pmfreeman Says:
But everyone here is overjoyed at the great victory the democrats have achieved in the passage of this budget with no questions asked and that I find very frightening indeed !
17 democrats voted against it.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:59 pmHe stole 8 years of the presidency and only gave it up when he’d messed things up so badly it wasn’t worth stealing a third term. Yep, fascism.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:59 pmrepublican, you need to get some facts. I am a democrat, not aq loony lefty, but a democrat. I don’t like republicans because they are arrogant and they suck at running the economy. You want to blame Bush for everything and you miss the stupid repugs who are acting like idiots by opposing a budget they signed a year ago. You can “vent” on me, but you are missing a very important moment to trash the repugs over this budget.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:59 pmMy original point of leaving the conversation with the chummer was that the unreasonable will continue to crow.
My point was definitely proven.
Have a good night all.
A tip of the hat to livelongandprosper at #127.
April 29th, 2009 at 4:00 pmAm I the only person on TP that has learned to completely ignore everything posted by RHF?
April 29th, 2009 at 4:00 pmdrew3rdgrader says(@125):
Why are you defending Bush/Cheney war criminals?
April 29th, 2009 at 4:01 pmAre you evil?
Definitely a fascist pig(in lipstick, wink, wink)
Ahhhhhhhh! The irrelevancy of Republicanism……..
April 29th, 2009 at 4:02 pmChimpy is irrelevant to the internal politics of our country. He was used as a figure head for a power grab, folded under pressure, and flopped like most would be dictators. His personal shortcomings were so glaring that his entire party is still fighting itself to decide who is the farthest to the fringe.
The GOP seems destined for irrelevance with or without him. But, if we fail to try him for war crimes? We will find the rest of the world increasingly hostile.
April 29th, 2009 at 4:03 pmno
April 29th, 2009 at 4:04 pmYo, facts. No one is afraid if the word fascist and racist. Those words don’t carry a perjorative meaning anymore. they are the rants of the unhinged because those words are used for things that are neither racist or fascist. I would love for us to quit using the words so that they can have power if these evils ever arise again. You laugh at repugs when they yell socialist, right? That’s what people think of you if you use fascist for the Bush administration. What about repugs using it to describe president Obama? It’s stupid.
April 29th, 2009 at 4:04 pmAmerican Patsy Says:
Fascism?
You’re right Patsy, that’s what we had with our last President. Fortunately our current President is a man of the people. Too bad so sad for you that your party lost 4% of it’s members in one month. Keep going at that rate and you will be gone by 2010.
April 29th, 2009 at 4:06 pmWell boys and girls, what have we learned today?
April 29th, 2009 at 4:09 pmThe troll du jour, who I’ve aptly coined “pwnd3rd” for being continuously “pwned” does not know fascism from a facial. DOES know racism and bigotry, because that is it’s lifestyle. Has been owned time and time again with it’s lies (federal spending, claiming Mussolini was a socialist, and the coup de grace of false information–> that the Oklahoma City bomber was an unhinged left wing anarchist).
What should we take from our learning?
That pwnd3rd is a clueless idiot, and can’t hold a debate if it’s life was dependent upon it.
But, he does get points for providing laughs, and increasing the “hits” on today’s threads.
If words are meaningless, why are we in a snit about a few people using the word fascist? Personally, I usually stay with generalities and call them Reichwhiners.
April 29th, 2009 at 4:11 pmHabeas corpus ,Obama is arguing against it ,
April 29th, 2009 at 4:12 pmPosse comitatus …. not a word ,
Signing statements , Still occurring ,
Domestic surveillance to be expanded ,
Presidential powers assumed by bush …defended and expanded ,
the occupation of Iraq…… to continue with a new brand name ,
the war in Afghanistan … to be expanded ,
political appointees and cabinet choices….. Aipac and neo cons well represented but virtually no progressives,
the defence budget …… expanded ,
Corporate handouts ….. bonuses and too big to fail insurance policies .
Ect. , ect., and so on .
Sorry but there is alot of work to do still and it is alot harder to do than attacking the republicans failures and O/T trolls!
drew3rd Says:
That’s what people think of you if you use fascist for the Bush administration.
If the shoe fits:
Fascism is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology. The Bush Regime was about as authoritarian as it gets.
Fascism is also a corporatist economic ideology. The Bush Crime Family never saw a corporation they didn’t love and made us into the United Corporations of America.
Fascists advocate the creation of a single-party state. Remember the Republican Party’s quest for a permanent majority? Remember how they shut the Democrats out of the legislative process for 6 years?
Fascists believe that nations and races are in perpetual conflict whereby only the strong can survive by being healthy, vital, and by asserting themselves in combat against the weak. That describes the Republican ideals towards wars and conflict to a “T”
Fascist governments forbid and suppress criticism and opposition to the government and the fascist movement. Remember the “if you are not with us you are against us” or “you have to respect the president just because he’s the president”? Coincidentally neither apply towards Obama for some reason. And then you have 80% of our MSM owned and controlled by conservatives who skewed the news on a daily basis.
Fascism opposes class conflict and blames capitalist liberal democracies for creating class conflict and in turn blames communists for exploiting class conflict. Actually the Republicans blamed everyone but themselves for all problems.
April 29th, 2009 at 4:15 pmDRxJapanese Beetle,
They’ve all been particularly unhinged lately. Now that we are dealing with 21% we are seeing natural selection in earnest. The only ones who still try to advance the GOP are the dregs.
April 29th, 2009 at 4:15 pmfreeman Says:
Habeas corpus ,Obama is arguing against it maybe
Posse comitatus …. not a word give him time for gods sake
Signing statements , Still occurring and you know this how?
Domestic surveillance to be expanded and you know this how?
Presidential powers assumed by bush …defended and expanded whereas most are rejected
the occupation of Iraq…… to continue with a new brand name until he brings the troops home as promised
the war in Afghanistan … to be expanded would you have us just pack up and leave the mess we created and give the Taliban unlimited access to Pakistan?
political appointees and cabinet choices….. Aipac and neo cons well represented but virtually no progressives that’s a matter of opinion
the defence budget …… expanded actually, I believe it was cut and that’s why the cons are screaming.
Corporate handouts ….. bonuses and too big to fail and these were done by Bush/Paulson, not Obama
Sorry but there is alot of work to do still and it is alot harder to do than attacking the republicans failures and O/T trolls!
You are right, but most Americans are willing to give President Obama a little more time to get it right. He’s dealing with way too many very bad problems right now to be expected to have done all you and a few others expected him to have accomplished by now.
April 29th, 2009 at 4:21 pmLevi the Dungbeetle Says:
Am I the only person on TP that has learned to completely ignore everything posted by RHF?
Nope, he was annoying before when he went on his Hillary rants, he’s annoying now with his use of capital letters. I see his signature style and just waltz on by.
April 29th, 2009 at 4:22 pmBilbo,
April 29th, 2009 at 4:27 pmDo you believe that Obama actually does this all by himself that the federal government can not multi task ?
How about the 9th circuit court of appeals ruling against the new administration ? How about his weakening federal whistle blower protections through the use of a signing statement or the attempt to deny habeas corpus to bagram airbase ?
Bilbo the elections over the issues are FAR more important than the man or the party .
Bilbo,
April 29th, 2009 at 4:33 pmI know we are essentially on the same page but I do not believe that we can afford to give anyone the benefit of the doubt !No free passes or the ruling elite will think we have fallen asleep , what drawbacks can there be to defending the constitution and basic human rights ?
Post on brother , commend the things that are going right but don’t forget to hold the democrats feet to the fire !I know you will !
freeman Says:
A little cynicism is healthy but, have you considered the fact that Obama can’t legally change everything he wants with a wave of his pen and he’s still assembling the people he needs to initiate those kind of changes?
Not to mention that he still needs to finish purging Regent U grads and other assorted Bushbots from critical areas.
April 29th, 2009 at 4:35 pmdrew3rd Says: I am a democrat, not aq loony lefty, but a democrat.
Pardon my skepticism, drew, but I’ve read your posts for a while now and I don’t see “democrat” in them. I’ll ask you the same question I would love to ask Arlen Specter: what policies, principles, and values of the Democratic Party and its platform do you support?
April 29th, 2009 at 4:42 pmPete,
April 29th, 2009 at 4:43 pmBut then why argue against habeas corpus in court ?
Why expand the legal rational for the state secret defence inorder to keep 2 cases on torture and rendition and one on domestic wiretapping from proceeding in the courts ?
Why employ signing statements which weaken whistle blower protections when can be seen on U tube saying you won’t make signing statements ?
That can not be defended by saying he needs more time .
had enough Says:
Once again the GOP = the Party of NO.
In boner’s case:
Gracious (just like effeminate lindsey, they wear mascara and eyeliner)
April 29th, 2009 at 4:43 pmOrange
Party
While I applaude the administrations renunciation of torture and believe that despite continuing the practice of rendition no one will be sent to a 3rd party to be tortured ,Obama has come down desicively on the wrong side of several issues in the last few weeks .
April 29th, 2009 at 4:48 pmWhy will we boost the defence budget when the US spends twice as much as all other countries on the earth combined annually?
April 29th, 2009 at 4:50 pmfreeman Says:
It probably has something to do with the reality of being involved in two wars, but I could be wrong.
April 29th, 2009 at 4:56 pmfreeman,
I have plenty of doubts and disappointments too. I knew that going in. However, whatever Obama does, or doesn’t do, I want it to be done thoughtfully and in the light of all the evidence. And I want his actions to be legal, ethical, and binding.
I guess what I’m trying to get at is that there are still enough emergencies that it’s unwise to divert resources to addressing procedural and parliamentary issues.
I would bet we all have a list of things we want NOW. I’m willing to wait in preference to the alternative of unsound actions. He’s taking enough risks as it is. And I sure as Hell don’t want the President to get caught in a partisan shitstorm because he did something that some hidden memo from 2005 made “illegal”.
One of the reasons, I think, that they’ve been releasing correspondence from the last Administration is to demonstrate the kind of legal mine field they are dealing with. As painful as it may be, some of the stuff Bushco did will stand and, until it’s challenged in the Congress or the courts, it’s still law and can’t be simply swept away.
As stupid as Chimpy is, and as reprehensible as the people around him were, he had lots of lawyers who’s only job was to justify his actions and make them stand. It will take enormous resources just to untangle the knots.
April 29th, 2009 at 5:08 pmFrom glen greenwald,
In other words, beyond even the outrageously broad “state secrets” privilege invented by the Bush administration and now embraced fully by the Obama administration, the Obama DOJ has now invented a brand new claim of government immunity, one which literally asserts that the U.S. Government is free to intercept all of your communications (calls, emails and the like) and — even if what they’re doing is blatantly illegal and they know it’s illegal — you are barred from suing them unless they “willfully disclose” to the public what they have learned.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/04/06/obama/index.html
April 29th, 2009 at 5:15 pmOn signing statements …
April 29th, 2009 at 5:19 pmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vAquUSGqNI
Levi ,
April 29th, 2009 at 5:23 pmyour wrong , this is not just a present trend but has been true for years before these wars began ! Also the defence budget is separate from the funding for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan .
From the judge who ruled against the Obama administration yesterday .
“According to the government’s theory, the judiciary should effectively cordon off all secret government actions from judicial scrutiny, immunizing the CIA and its partners from the demands and limits of the law,” Judge Michael Hawkins said in the 3-0 ruling.
Allowing the government to shield its conduct from court review simply because classified information is involved “would … perversely encourage the president to classify politically embarrassing information simply to place it beyond the reach of judicial process,” Hawkins said.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/04/28/BAC417AH7A.DTL&tsp=1
April 29th, 2009 at 5:34 pmfreeman Says:
Bilbo,
Do you believe that Obama actually does this all by himself that the federal government can not multi task ?
How about the 9th circuit court of appeals ruling against the new administration ? How about his weakening federal whistle blower protections through the use of a signing statement or the attempt to deny habeas corpus to bagram airbase ?
Bilbo the elections over the issues are FAR more important than the man or the party .
I don’t disagree with what you are saying. I just have a lot more confidence in President Obama than you obviously do.
April 29th, 2009 at 5:37 pmRachel Maddow on Obama attack on habeas corpus
April 29th, 2009 at 5:38 pmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdXDpsUgXn4
freeman Says:
Pete,
But then why argue against habeas corpus in court ?
Why expand the legal rational for the state secret defence in order to keep 2 cases on torture and rendition and one on domestic wiretapping from proceeding in the courts ?
We don’t know the answers to these questions. But I believe that he has good reasons for doing what he is doing. If there is one thing I really fault President Obama on is that he doesn’t seem to find the need to let us know why he is making these seemingly disingenuous decisions.
April 29th, 2009 at 5:40 pmfreeman Says:
Rachel Maddow on Obama attack on habeas corpus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdXDpsUgXn4
I don’t like that decision any more than you do. But I truly believe that there is a good reason why President Obama is doing this. I just wish he would let us in on why.
April 29th, 2009 at 5:41 pmBilbo you ought to do more research on your refutations more thoroughly ? I stand by my post @ 149 .
April 29th, 2009 at 5:42 pmWell the House Republicans are doing a great job of expressing their opposition and irrelevance at the same time. They could have not shown up and the result would be the same.
April 29th, 2009 at 5:46 pmI said this during the election and I said it before the elections…. the 2 party system is a fraud set up for the benefit of large corporations and that even the world’s oldest con game cups and ball required 3 cups when the American Public is fooled with only two !
April 29th, 2009 at 5:46 pmWhich brings us back to the actual topic of the thread is this really a victory for the American public or the greatest robbery ever orchestrated on the entire worlds population ?
Levi the Dungbeetle Says:
freeman Says:
Why will we boost the defence budget when the US spends twice as much as all other countries on the earth combined annually?
It probably has something to do with the reality of being involved in two wars, but I could be wrong.
It can also have something to do with his shifting away from Contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan and going back to having many of the duties previously done by them become part of the military once again. That will shift these costs from the State Department to the military.
April 29th, 2009 at 5:47 pmfreeman Says:
Bilbo you ought to do more research on your refutations more thoroughly ? I stand by my post @ 149 .
Well bully for you.
April 29th, 2009 at 5:47 pmI really don’t wish, or intend, to continually argue off topic. However, President Obama can’t afford to take a stand on habeas corpus while he doesn’t have a way to deal with the prisoners he got stuck with. He would have to kick them all loose.
And my point remains that he has a full plate trying to fix the seemingly endless messes in the face of obstruction, sedition, and sabotage from the opposition party.
April 29th, 2009 at 5:50 pmNever trust a politician bilbo .
April 29th, 2009 at 5:59 pmI applaude many of the administrations moves on building a green economy and infrastructure , foreign policy ,the enviroment ,ending torture and equal pay for women , I’m sure there is much more I’m leaving out !
But it is not comforting that my rights as a human being can be violated with impunity, in secrecy and without any possibility of suing those who abuse me .
freeman Says:
Pete,
But then why argue against habeas corpus in court ?
Why expand the legal rational for the state secret defence inorder to keep 2 cases on torture and rendition and one on domestic wiretapping from proceeding in the courts ?
Why employ signing statements which weaken whistle blower protections when can be seen on U tube saying you won’t make signing statements ?
That can not be defended by saying he needs more time .
It’s no telling what chimpy the mad left in his miserable wake.
So far it has been chilling and very shameful. It goes beyond hell. And there’s more hell to come.
You think as far as your nose.
As your type shrink into an embarrassing pejorative the rest of us will (thanks #4-nanlichi) Roll over them and leave the carcasses to rot by the curb.
teabaggers thought they could totally destroy the United States and tried as they might all they did was f0ucked the United States up real bad, from every way. (these ah0les are still yapping like 1999-2009 idiots)
Their scheme backfired, it made us stronger.
President Obama mission is what we voted for. Liberal or otherwise.
Teabagging trolls will NEVER understand the everyday folks because they are really IDIOTS. For Real!
repugs who? hahahaha
April 29th, 2009 at 6:05 pmToo many hours in the blogosphere I’m seeing double and need something to eat , the neighbors daughter is having a baby and my kids want my attention . …….and bully right back at you brother and for pete’s sake ( and mine too ) keep blogging .
April 29th, 2009 at 6:05 pmTscheuss mensch y adios .
Should the Republican Party be outlawed as a criminal organization?
April 29th, 2009 at 6:46 pmAmerican Patsy Says:
Fascism?
Fascism is a unitary executive. Majority rule is “democracy.”
.
drew3rd Says:
Why on earth would the repugs vote against a budget that mirrors Bush’s budget over the past couple of years.
It’s not. This budget actually gets results for its expenditures, rather than merely funding war and overpayments to no-bid contractors.
.
drew3rd Says:
Goat, you and everyone else on this site have done for the word fascist what you did for the word racist. Neither means anything anymore because you have used it as a pauper uses money, without thought.
Fascism is an extremely appropriate description of the Bush doctrine. The notion that the Chief Executive is unlimited by the legislature, the courts or by any statute of law is the central definition of fascism. This notion has been repeatedly put forth by neocons in multiple ways. They continue to do so. Therefore, they are fascists.
.
drew3rd Says:
Which bank or auto company did he take over?
Bush nationalized a number of banks in the last days of his Presidency. He has technically nationalized more industries than Hugo Chavez. However, that’s not a requirement for fascism, and neither is genocide. Nor for that matter is “disappearing” people, torturing them, corporate/government cronyism and invading other countries based on lies. Fascism is most precisely described as “unitary executive theory.” The rest are just the probable and/or actual consequences thereof.
.
drew3rd Says:
If he were a fascist, he’d still be there and we would all be fighting to remove him and return our country to the constitution.
That’s only the case if he were a successful fascist. Fortunately, America proved too resilient for him.
.
freeman Says:
Signing statements , Still occurring
Got a link on any of Obama’s signing statements? Of course by themselves, they’re not a bad thing. It’s when the President attempts to use them as an excuse to amend law rather than go on record regarding how they intend to execute it that we have a problem.
.
freeman Says:
Sorry but there is alot of work to do still and it is alot harder to do than attacking the republicans failures and O/T trolls!
Agreed. But this we do just to blow off steam. Quit trying to spoil everybody’s fun.
.
Bilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
It can also have something to do with his shifting away from Contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan and going back to having many of the duties previously done by them become part of the military once again.
Also putting Iraq and Afghanistan in the budget, rather than as “emergency” expenditures. We were already paying for them, just not counting them in the budgetary numbers.
You know regarding the contractor thing, I wonder when running a chow line or guarding a power plant even started being something the military couldn’t do…
.
oe the Philosopher Says:
Should the Republican Party be outlawed as a criminal organization?
I’m sure they’d just love that.
April 29th, 2009 at 7:42 pmThe Republican Party needs to be treated like organized crime, because that is exactly what it is.
April 29th, 2009 at 7:45 pmdrew3rd Says:
Italy was socialist, there was no corporate fascism in Italy, only collectivism.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
The word fascism comes from the italian one “fascio”, a simbol inherited from the romans, and adopted as name for the party of Mussolini, creator of the National Fascist Party, and its maximum leader.
April 29th, 2009 at 8:48 pmHey Republicans!
Group tantrum!
Make sure to lay on the ground and flail your arms and legs as you yell it!
No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! Noooooo!
If you do it long enough, Mommy might by you the cereal that you like.
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