Quinnipiac poll: Majority of Americans believe Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell should be repealed.
Quinnipiac poll: Majority of Americans believe Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell should be repealed.
In a new poll, the Quinnipiac Polling Institute has found that 56 percent of Americans, including 50 percent of voters with family in the military, believe that “the ban on openly gay men and women in the military should be repealed.” Respondents to the poll also rejected the idea that allowing gay men and women to serve openly in the military would be “divisive“:
White Catholics say 64 – 29 percent that gays in the military should be allowed to come out, while white evangelical Christians support “don’t ask; don’t tell” 53 – 40 percent. Voters reject 58 – 35 percent, including 56 – 39 percent in military households, the argument that allowing openly gay men and women to serve would be divisive, the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University survey of 2,041 registered voters nationwide finds.
On MSNBC earlier today, Peter A. Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute, explained why the poll is “one of the most extensive ever done.” “We did over 2,000 interviews, which is double the size of most national polls,” said Brown. Watch it:
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Couldn’t agree more, it’s a dated dinosaur from a cro-magnon regime.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:37 pmAnd geologists, let’s not get picky about the dinosaur caveman thingie… ;)
Just using imagery.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:38 pmWell, DUH!
April 30th, 2009 at 1:39 pmBetween this poll and another recent poll that shows the majority of evangelicals under 30 also approve of gay marriage, heads are exploding. After all, if they can’t force the public to hate teh gays, what do they have left to run on?
PEACE
April 30th, 2009 at 1:39 pmspencers butterfly mom says:
what else do they have left to run on?
————————————————————–
That still leaves abortion, guns, tax cuts for the rich, Obama’s REAL birth certificate, Joe the plumber,
April 30th, 2009 at 1:43 pmPlenty of ammo left.
spencersmom@4, Your right. I just seems to be piling on for the GOP. Good. I have been waiting for Karma or Poetic Justice to kick some ass. My, my, my… How the mighty have fallen.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:44 pmDADT served a purpose back in 1993 — and that was as a compromise. Sixteen years later, I think we realize that we DO have gays serving in the military and that hasn’t reduced our combat readiness one iota. Gays are expected to meet the same standards that straights do, and they do.
It’s time to repeal the policy and allow ALL qualified applicants to serve their country in the armed forces regardless of their sexual orientation.
I’m assuming there will be some trolls who will make an appearance to talk about their fantasy — oops, FEAR of showering with gay men.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:44 pmDr. Hussein Matt says:
I’ve been trying to goad Daryll out of the closet for some time now, no response.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:44 pmDo you think the rectum got himself raptured?
Gay rights? Sorry, they are just gonna have to wait their turn. Women wanted rights, blacks wanted rights, now the same sexers too? What is this country coming to? Freedom for all?
We need more people like Virginia Foxx from NC to speak out, and like Miss (H8) California. I like that “opposite” type marriage concept (or conception).
NOT
I guess Fox Noise has two more “contributors” for their shows!!!
April 30th, 2009 at 1:45 pmWhat does “openly gay men and women” mean? I did not know I was “openly straight” (or gay), no one has mentioned it to me my entire life. Can I “act” openly gay if I want to just for fun once I know what that means as I know you will tell me what that is. Should we all act “openly gay” as a cover to those who are? Can I be “gay all day” and straight all night. We need to fix this once and for all. (I think I might be gay so treat me like I am)
April 30th, 2009 at 1:47 pmWhat ever happened to that ridiculous commercial? Do you know the one I’m talking about? It had all those actors talking about the storm is coming and repent. I guess to many people thought it was a parody.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:49 pmWhat is sad that most Americans are against Gay Marriage. Think progress wants to put a positive spin on this poll, but it is not good.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:52 pmConservativeForProgress says:
Take that back! By saying such things, Dobson & Robertson will burn you at the stake as a heretic.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:53 pmCFP, that’s the most coherent thought you’ve expressed here.
Congratulations!
April 30th, 2009 at 1:54 pmThe Wise Owl Says:
What is sad that most Americans are against Gay Marriage. Think progress wants to put a positive spin on this poll, but it is not good.
Wrong.
Leaders of evangelical Christian organizations — the most vocal opponents of gay marriage as the issue polarized the electorate for much of this decade — now face a similar divide in their own ranks. In a survey last fall by Greenberg Quinlan Rosner Research, Inc., 58 percent of white evangelicals ages 18 to 29 said they support either civil unions or gay marriage; support dropped to 46 percent among white evangelicals who were older than that.
http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docID=weeklyreport-000003103265
PEACE
April 30th, 2009 at 1:58 pmMy only concern is that if we legalize gay marriage, it might reverse the polarity of “opposite marriage” ripping a hole in the gay-time continuum.
lawl…
April 30th, 2009 at 1:59 pmfor god’s sake, we’re at war… these are responsible folk; or they wouldn’t be in the service. This is the military.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:59 pmdrop DADT.
Colbert did an amazing parody of it 2 weeks ago. If you haven’t seen it yet, you should definitely check it out for giggles.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:00 pmspencers butterfly mom,
April 30th, 2009 at 2:01 pmGay Mariage and Civil Unions are 2 differnt subjects. I am refering to Marriage, not Civil Unions. The tructh is that Americans oppose Gay Mariage, but support Civil Unions. Let us not spin this. This is the truth.
I say we settle for Civil Unions, that is the best deal this society will give us.
Philip50 told you WiseOwl was a conservative just like you lol
April 30th, 2009 at 2:01 pmCongress needs to take DADT away from the military and apply it to themselves. Democrats Don’t Ask republiscums for their thoughts and Democrats Don’t Tell republiscums anything, just like the republiscums did to the Democrats with their Contract with America[n Corporations].
April 30th, 2009 at 2:02 pmThe Owl Says:
Or blacks could have settled for the back seat of the bus, right? At least they were ON the bus.
Midget.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:03 pmThe Wise Owl Says:
What is sad that most Americans are against Gay Marriage. Think progress wants to put a positive spin on this poll, but it is not good.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
No, we are not against same-sex marriage. Get a clue — most of America has pretty liberal thinking, whether they admit it or not.
We are for equal rights for all Americans. That means a gay couple should be able to walk into their county courthouse and purchase a marriage license, and then get married. This has nothing to do with the church.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:04 pmCrawl back into your cave.
My apologies to the little people… I forgot the “mental” in addition to “midget”. ;)
April 30th, 2009 at 2:04 pmOld Goat,
April 30th, 2009 at 2:05 pmLook Civil Unions is a good compromise. It is better than nothing at all. Also to compare teh Gay Righst struggle to what Blacks went through is insulting.
Wise Owl,
I know wise owls. Wise owls are friends of mine. You are no wise owl.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:06 pmThe Wise Owl Says:
spencers butterfly mom,
Gay Mariage and Civil Unions are 2 differnt subjects. I am refering to Marriage, not Civil Unions. The tructh is that Americans oppose Gay Mariage, but support Civil Unions. Let us not spin this. This is the truth.
I say we settle for Civil Unions, that is the best deal this society will give us.
The poll reported 51% opposition…most polls carry a +/-3% MOE. I’m not sure your argument holds up…it would more accurately as the country is split over gay marriage.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:06 pmNo, it exemplifies what this country is based on. Fighting for what you believe in, and not turning belly up just because that’s as good as you’ll get.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:06 pmUm… it means they openly acknowledge their sexuality, they don’t hide it.
Simple as that.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:07 pmDaryll’s been absent lately. probably either saving the souls of teenage gay prostitutes in the Dominican Republic, or “shaking the devil off“*
April 30th, 2009 at 2:07 pm* – also known as “Slapping his Bastinado”
Zooey,
April 30th, 2009 at 2:08 pmAmerican support Civil Unions, not Gay Marriage. That is a fact. I say get the best deal while you can. Things and mindsets could change.
Example: Immigration from Ilsmaic nations is growing faster than any group. The US under Bush and now Obama is making it easier for Muslims to immigrate than other groups. They are at 3% alreday. If they get up to 7% -12% say goodbye top Civil Unions. Be realistic and do it when it is right.
There is no compromise with human and civil rights. Period.
If it’s called “marriage,” then all should be allowed to marry. If that’s not doable, then abolish marriage.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:08 pmWhy not, you act openly ignorant all the time. Oh, that’s not an “act”, my bad.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:08 pmThe Wise Owl Says:
Old Goat,
Look Civil Unions is a good compromise.
Brown v. Board of Education…separate but equal does not equate. Sorry, black folks, is this an insulting comparison?
It is better than nothing at all.
I can feel the compassion through my monitor!
Also to compare teh Gay Righst struggle to what Blacks went through is insulting.
How about black gays and lesbians? Should they be insulted, or have mixed feelings? Who is insulted, exactly, when it comes to advocating equal rights?
April 30th, 2009 at 2:09 pmZooey,
April 30th, 2009 at 2:10 pmMarriage is between Man and woman. Always has been, always will be. Civil Unions I believe is a fair compromise.
Hey do you support Polygamy?
Tweedster,
April 30th, 2009 at 2:11 pmThat is why when put to a vote Blacks voted to ban Gay Marriage? Come on, this doesn’t help Gay Couples share benefits and legal protection. Civil Unions is the way to go.
@Zooey
Exactly, let’s cut the crap and just start issuing Civil Union Licenses to everyone. Then anyone who wants to argue about the definition of “real marriage” can keep it in their prayer group.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:11 pmThe Wise Owl:
Example: Immigration from Ilsmaic nations is growing faster than any group. The US under Bush and now Obama is making it easier for Muslims to immigrate than other groups. They are at 3% alreday. If they get up to 7% -12% say goodbye top Civil Unions.
Wildly speculative.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:12 pmThe Wise Owl Says
April 30th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Also to compare teh Gay Righst struggle to what Blacks went through is insulting.
_________________________________________________________
Why? Please explain to us why the struggle for equal rights for black Americans was more righteous than the struggle for equal rights for gay Americans.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:13 pmThe Wise Owl Says:
Zooey,
Marriage is between Man and woman. Always has been, always will be. Civil Unions I believe is a fair compromise.
Hey do you support Polygamy?
April 30th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
No, it won’t always be that way. Face it. Just because something has always been done a certain way, doesn’t make it right.
I will not be diverted by your idiotic polygamy gambit.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:13 pmralph, how does one “openly acknowledge their sexuality”? Is this act legal in public at this time or do more laws need changing?
April 30th, 2009 at 2:13 pmThe Wise Owl Says:
Tweedster,
That is why when put to a vote Blacks voted to ban Gay Marriage? Come on, this doesn’t help Gay Couples share benefits and legal protection. Civil Unions is the way to go.
I didn’t hear about the national black referendum on gay marriage. Link?
April 30th, 2009 at 2:13 pm.
Dear Wise Owl,
We can do better. Anything less IS NOT BETTER!
Maybe you can explain why I don’t deserve equality?
If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck, has feathers, a beak and webbed feet, then why isn’t it called a duck? Why insist on calling it a feathered quaker?
.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:13 pmAs for Gays serving in the Military, some already do. I have no problem lifing don’t ask don’t tell.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:13 pmSlappyBastinado Says:
ralph, how does one “openly acknowledge their sexuality”? Is this act legal in public at this time or do more laws need changing?
You are a dolt who doesn’t comprehend how DADT even works.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:14 pmJeez, for the first time Proud stopped me dead in my tracks…
April 30th, 2009 at 2:15 pmDon’t worry, Prod, with your body of work behind you, it’ll take more than this to bring your troll license under review.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:15 pmmisscoleopteramolly,
April 30th, 2009 at 2:15 pmBlacks were segregated and treated like crap in this society. Gays have economic and cultural powers. Gays are belobved by the society and treated special. That is the difference.
Gays have powers, Blacks didn’t.
Tweedster,
April 30th, 2009 at 2:15 pmIn Califoernia Blacks voted against gay Marriage. Still want a link on that?
Tweedster,
April 30th, 2009 at 2:15 pmDO you support Polygamy?
.
SlappyBastinado,
Kiss your boyfriend in public.
Be open, be free.
.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:16 pmThe Wise Owl Says:
Zooey,
Marriage is between Man and woman. Always has been, always will be.
This is a complete fabrication. Have you ever read the Bible?
April 30th, 2009 at 2:16 pmThe Wise Owl Says:
Gays are belobved by the society and treated special. That is the difference.
More owl pellets…how can you make completely unverifiable and unquantifiable statements and feel wise about it?
April 30th, 2009 at 2:16 pmLeave the polygamy question alone, folks. Not an issue.
Tell me, how are gays treated special, Owl?
April 30th, 2009 at 2:16 pmTweedster,
April 30th, 2009 at 2:17 pmHey about this. Legalize polygamy and Gay Marriage!
.
Marriage is between TWO CONSENTING ADULTS!
.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:18 pmSlappyBastinado Says:
ralph, how does one “openly acknowledge their sexuality”? Is this act legal in public at this time or do more laws need changing?
April 30th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
If you are male, and you have a photo of your wife displayed in your office, you are openly acknowledging your sexuality.
Is that clear?
April 30th, 2009 at 2:18 pmWas Matthew Sheppard treated special, Owl?
April 30th, 2009 at 2:18 pmTweedster Says:
The poll reported 51% opposition…most polls carry a +/-3% MOE. I’m not sure your argument holds up…it would more accurately as the country is split over gay marriage.
Tweedster, are we looking at the same poll?
Younger Americans are far more supportive of civil unions and gay marriage than older generations; in December, pollsters for Newsweek found that 51 percent of people between ages 18 and 34 support gay marriage, compared with 39 percent of all respondents.
PEACE
April 30th, 2009 at 2:18 pmYou obviously missed the second part of my statement: “they don’t HIDE it”.
I would have thought that was self-explanatory. But I see you’re more intent on employing innuendo than in actually seeking an answer.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:18 pmOld Goat,
April 30th, 2009 at 2:19 pmIn Movies Gays are portrayed as Good, talented and special. Even to this day Blacks are portrayed as negative in mnay roles.
.
Dear (not so) Wise Owl,
Since when are polygamists equatable to homosexuals?
.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:19 pmThe Wise Owl Says:
Tweedster,
DO you support Polygamy?
No. But I never asserted I did and it does not compare to gay marriage between two people of the same sex.
To make the statement that marriage ALWAYS has been as defined by the joining of one man and one woman discounts the truth that polygamy has been practiced and accepted by cultures throughout the ages, so try not to lie, ok?
April 30th, 2009 at 2:19 pmSo tell me, was Matthew Sheppard treated special?
April 30th, 2009 at 2:19 pmBlacks also voted FOR gay marriage.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:20 pmI could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure “The Wise Owl” is Trahan (or some variation thereof).
April 30th, 2009 at 2:20 pmCome on, Owl… was Matthew Sheppard treated special? Was he endeared by society?
April 30th, 2009 at 2:20 pmPolygamy is the love a man has for multiple women. Why is this bad but 2 people of the same sex getting married is OK?
April 30th, 2009 at 2:20 pmralph the wonder locust,
April 30th, 2009 at 2:21 pmMajority voted against it. Blacks don’t want to compare their struggle with Gay Marriage. Gays have high incomes and economic power. Blacks still don’t.
Polygamy is the love anyone has for multiples of any sex.
Clue… rent it.
Matthew Sheppard… was he treated special, Owl?
April 30th, 2009 at 2:21 pmBecause they were bombarded by advertising funded mostly by Mormons. So who knows if they were even paying much attention to the meaning of the referendum or responding to marketing.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:22 pmActually, that’s Polyamory… Polygamy deals with marriage.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:22 pmThe Wise Owl Says:
Old Goat,
In Movies Gays are portrayed as Good, talented and special.
And sources of ridicule!
Even to this day Blacks are portrayed as negative in mnay roles.
Somewhat true, although it a completely vapid argument overall. Plus, haven’t you seen the Matrix or Remember the Titans?
April 30th, 2009 at 2:22 pmOld Goat,
April 30th, 2009 at 2:23 pmMatthew Sheppard wow one person. More Blacks have been victims of Hate Crimes than Gays. SO don’t go there.
.
Dear (not so) Wise Owl,
How is marrying multiple people equatable to marrying one?
Since when are polygamists equatable to homosexuals?
.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:23 pmThe Wise Owl Says:
Gays have high incomes and economic power. Blacks still don’t.
All gay people are wealthy and powerful? Care to prove that?
Is LeBron James gay?
April 30th, 2009 at 2:23 pmDoodlebug Shayne,
April 30th, 2009 at 2:23 pmSo you are saying Blacks are stupid?
Zooey…….
If you are male, and you have a photo of your wife displayed in your office, you are openly acknowledging your sexuality.
Is that clear?
========================================
April 30th, 2009 at 2:24 pmI dont have an office, will the horse barn do? Or is that sending mixed messages? Then again I could put it in the machine shed with the back-hoe and trucks….is that “butch”?
I am getting good advice but could use more, I think.
Is it too late to suggest a rousing game of “Spot the Logical Fallacy?”
April 30th, 2009 at 2:24 pmMax Anax junius -1,
April 30th, 2009 at 2:25 pmIf a Man loves more than one woman, why can’t he marry them all if everyone agrees? Isn’t the argument for Gay Marriage that it is up to consenting adults?
The Wise Owl Says:
Gays have high incomes and economic power. Blacks still don’t.
How about Tyler Perry? He cross-dresses quite a bit.
Quincy Jones always seemed kind of “light in the loafers” to me.
Colin Powell – definitely questionable…I wonder how he survived DADT.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:25 pmSlappyBastinado Says:
I think.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
No, you don’t.
Dismissed.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:25 pmThe Wise Owl Says:
If a Man loves more than one woman, why can’t he marry them all if everyone agrees? Isn’t the argument for Gay Marriage that it is up to consenting adults?
That’s a wild reach and not what gay marriage supporters advocate.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:25 pmZooey Says:
Is it too late to suggest a rousing game of “Spot the Logical Fallacy?”
It looks like a spotted owl.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:26 pmI agree with those who are thinking let’s ban marriage as a state sponsored event, leave it to the churches and temples, and issue Civil Union licenses.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:26 pmSo you are a Mormon. Is that why you folks spent so much money on Proposition 8. You wanted to piggy back your polygamy on all the hard work done by the gay community?
April 30th, 2009 at 2:26 pm.
Dear (not so) Wise Owl,
You’re conflating the marriage of TWO CONSENTING ADULTS with that of MULTIPLE ADULTS CONSENTING.
I’m asking you, how is more than TWO, just like TWO?
Or are you really that dense?
.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:26 pmOne person is one person, many other gays have been victimized, so don’t YOU go there.
Tell me how Matthew was treated special.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:26 pmIt’s just a silly policy…
…it’s not like uniforms look gay or anything…oh, wait…
April 30th, 2009 at 2:27 pmYou say that as if “Blacks” were a monolithic voting block, and you also appear to be trying to make the point that, because a majority of blacks in California voted for Prop Hate, this somehow proves that the civil rights comparison between racial equality and sexual equality is flawed.
It does not prove that at all. You use an unrelated electoral result to support what is sheer conjecture on your part. The rest of your argument is a bit scattered, to put it charitably.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:27 pmSlappyBastinado Says
April 30th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
I did not know I was “openly straight” (or gay), no one has mentioned it to me my entire life.
____________________________________________________________
Being “openly straight” means you don’t have to hide it. And if you’re straight, you’ve probably never had to hide that fact from anyone — to the point where you take your ability to be open about it for granted.
Imagine now that you are straight, but society demands you keep that a secret — or else lose your job, lose your friends, have your family disown you, or even get beaten up or killed. You cannot tell anyone that you are dating someone of the opposite sex. If you choose to live with someone of the opposite sex, you must be coy and call that person a “roommate” or claim she’s a relative. If you marry a person of the opposite sex, you must never wear a wedding ring in public, introduce your wife as your wife, or expect you and your wife to be accepted as a couple anywhere. And don’t even THINK about holding hands in public, or kissing your wife goodbye at the airport.
That’s what it’s like for people who aren’t allowed to live their lives openly. Could you do that?
April 30th, 2009 at 2:27 pmSlappyBastinado Says:
I am getting good advice but could use more, I think.
How about STFU?
I’m not sure you should worry about being open with your sexuality – porn can be browsed in the privacy of your own bedroom.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:28 pmralph the wonder locust:
The rest of your argument is a bit scattered, to put it charitably.
Owl’s arguments sucks major swamp gas.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:30 pmWhat I said was not everybody pays that much attention to the subject of referendums that don’t apply to their lives. Are you saying that advertising is targeted to those who are stupid?
April 30th, 2009 at 2:30 pm.
Dear (not so)Wise Owl,
So, blacks should have been fine sitting at a table because we all know, the counter was reserved for whites only!
So, blacks should have been fine with having a drinking fountain of their own? At least the white folk didn’t have to share, then, NO?
And yes, what was Ms. Parks all bent outta shape about anyway? She got to ride the bus everyday already, NO?
.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:31 pm:)
And the remaining minority of American’s weren’t asked, so they didn’t tell.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:32 pmThe Wise Owl Says:
Old Goat,
Matthew Sheppard wow one person. More Blacks have been victims of Hate Crimes than Gays. SO don’t go there.
So, only one gay person has ever been prosecuted for the sexuality?
April 30th, 2009 at 2:32 pmWhere is dbadass when we need a good recipe for braised owl?
PEACE
April 30th, 2009 at 2:32 pmMax… we are not to compare gays to blacks because gays are endeared and treated specially.
Sheesh… how could I be so blind.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:33 pmThe idea that because discrimination of gay people does not necessarily have a visual component like race does in not only irresponsible, but simplistic. Human culture has evolved to protect the rights of different groups of varying defining characteristics: class, race, ethnicity, culture, age group, and ability. What’s truly insulting is the argument that the black community has a patent on civil rights issues.
What’s ironic is that solidarity with non-black groups, including a lot of GAY rights groups, helped move forward some amazingly positive change. Solidarity is slowly building, with affirmation and support from the NAACP and other high profile individuals, but this “civil rights ownership” argument is still unfortunately trotted out.
and to the complete moron who still insists on the slippery slope argument: it’s logically incorrect. You are a bigot that just looks ridiculous packaging your ignorance in an illusion of rational argument. Please join your friends at FreeRepublic.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:34 pmCoretta Scott King gives her support to gay marriage
POMONA, N.J. (AP) — The widow of Martin Luther King Jr. called gay marriage a civil rights issue, denouncing a proposed constitutional amendment that would ban it.
Constitutional amendments should be used to expand freedom, not restrict it, Coretta Scott King said Tuesday.
“Gay and lesbian people have families, and their families should have legal protection, whether by marriage or civil union,” she said. “A constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriages is a form of gay bashing and it would do nothing at all to protect traditional marriages.”
April 30th, 2009 at 2:35 pmThe Wise Owl Says
April 30th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
misscoleopteramolly,
Blacks were segregated and treated like crap in this society. Gays have economic and cultural powers. Gays are belobved by the society and treated special. That is the difference.
Gays have powers, Blacks didn’t.
___________________________________________________________
Nobody is arguing that black Americans were treated like crap in this society. But isn’t denying someone the same basic rights granted to everybody else treating them “like crap” regardless of who they are?
And just what are these “cultural” powers gays have? And how are they treated “special”? This sounds an awful lot like the explanations I received in my youth about why women shouldn’t be granted equal rights in society, because we were already “special”. Now, THAT’S crap.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:36 pmrepublicans hate facts,
Bad news for you, I’m not white.
Doodlebug Shayne,
You clearly implied Blacks are stupid and esily manipulated.
Max Anax junius -1,
Don’t compare the struggle Black people went through with the Rich Gays wanting more power.
As for polygamy, If you support Gay Marriage you should support this too. I am in a relationship with 2 women. I love both equally and they get along. Why can’t I marry both of them if they agree. What about my Civil Rights to be happy?
April 30th, 2009 at 2:36 pmIf you believe strongly in polygamy, Owl… fight for it. You have a right to fight for it, as I stated earlier. Just as gays have a right to fight for marriage, and not settle for civil unions.
The point is, you can fight for it, and you do NOT have to settle.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:42 pmExcept for the obvious issue here that blacks were allowed into the military years ago and gays still aren’t. Not all Owls are wise apparently.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:45 pmMax… we are not to compare gays to blacks because gays are endeared and treated specially.
Except black gays.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:48 pmI worked at advertising agencies for years and don’t recall any creative director basing a campaign on the stupidity of the people. Of course we never created a Republican ad campaign.
But what your saying is Mormons had a secret agenda in funding Prop 8 of trying to get polygamy passed with gay marriage. Who knew.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:49 pmThe problem is if you work and get say health benefits for your spouse then your employer is forced to pay benefits for two women instead of one. Which would mostly be an issue if your worked for the government because they’d be the entity forced to pay for it by it being legal costing the taxpayer lots of money. Of course if we had a national health care plan it wouldn’t be so much of an issue.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:53 pmWise Owl,
Save your sorry-ass hypothetical questions for Philosphy 101 at Bob Jones University. Here on planet earth, our society is debating same-sex marriage between two people, because that’s what people are debating. There are many laws that are construed by many groups to be against their moral values, citing this “slippery slope,” which have not historically born out.
It’s with an evolving sensibility that people have already seen NO NEGATIVE outcome from same-sex relationships recognized by the state. You may have a philosophical anxiety, but that’s not the problem of the state. Your ideas of outcome are for (shoddy and bigoted) debate, not for the pragmatism of a state interested in the rights and pursuit of happiness of its citizens- stated objectives, I might add.
The irony is that none of this is of consequence to you at all. You’re just another pathetic person using tired and laughable arguments given to you by others to justify your own prejudice, wasting everyone’s time here. Get a life. Go outside. Be with your loved ones. None of that will change or has changed because other people are allowed to marry who they love and to be who they are.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:53 pm.
Dear Owl,
Whats a bigot?
.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:55 pm.
Dear Owl,
If you let me marry another man, how is that a threat to your marriage?
… In the closet much?
.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:57 pmRealness:
The irony is that none of this is of consequence to you at all. You’re just another pathetic person using tired and laughable arguments given to you by others to justify your own prejudice, wasting everyone’s time here. Get a life. Go outside. Be with your loved ones. None of that will change or has changed because other people are allowed to marry who they love and to be who they are.
Read this again Owl, keep reading it until it sinks in.
April 30th, 2009 at 3:00 pmThe Wise Owl Says:
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misscoleopteramolly,
Blacks were segregated and treated like crap in this society. Gays have economic and cultural powers. Gays are belobved by the society and treated special. That is the difference.
Gays have powers, Blacks didn’t.
You seem to be the one generating more anger out of all the posters on this subject. If you are black, how could anyone like yourself even speak the way you do? I am white, I was brought up to hate blacks by a worthless father, but I did NOT continue the hatred because I know it’s wrong! I cannot tolerate people like you who have their heads so firmly placed in your rectum! How dare you say Gays have it better than blacks? Why don’t you explain your foul garbage to family members like Matthew Shepherd’s? A person cannot change what race or gender they are, to say that they have “special rights”, you are out of your Effin mind! Why would anyone want to be openly gay, with people like you who should understand stupidity, but don’t?
How you came up with “wise owl” user name, baffles me. Your sounding more like what they drop on the ground after a full meal. Stop wasting our time and just crawl in your nest and go to sleep?
April 30th, 2009 at 3:02 pmThe Wise Owl Says:
What is sad that most Americans are against Gay Marriage.
Well, I know I don’t want to get Gay Married so you could say I’m “against” it. But it’s none of my business if somebody else does, and therefore I don’t have the right to tell them they can’t.
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The Wise Owl Says:
Gay Mariage and Civil Unions are 2 differnt subjects. I am refering to Marriage, not Civil Unions. The tructh is that Americans oppose Gay Mariage, but support Civil Unions. Let us not spin this. This is the truth.
I say we settle for Civil Unions, that is the best deal this society will give us.
I’d be willing to do that if all legal marriages were converted to civil unions, all laws referring to marriage instead referred to civil unions, and the government were taken out of the “marriage” business altogether. Ultimately that’s the most correct solution (separation of church and state, y’all) but I don’t see any significant voices proposing it. I find it extremely interesting that none of the social conservatives are even entertaining the idea.
But without that, it’s like saying “I’m all for black people having drinking fountains, I just don’t think they have the right to the same drinking fountain that white people use.” Before you accuse me of being specious, exactly this comparison has been supported by multiple court rulings.
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The Wise Owl Says:
Marriage is between Man and woman. Always has been, always will be.
Marriage always had been defined as a permanent bond, until Henry VIII changed it to allow divorce. Thus, we should outlaw divorce, according to your logic. It’s interesting how so many of the people resisting “redefinition” of marriage are on their second or third. Using their logic, I could well argue that they’re expecting society to approve of a lifestyle choice that is nothing more than state-sanctioned adultery.
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Proud Says:
Gay/straight who cares when someone chooses to serve their country. White, black, red, green purple it does not matter and should not be an issue. A soldier is a soldier and he/she should be recognized by their service, not by any other criteria.
This is the sort of issue that patriotic pro-military folks on both sides of the aisle should be able to get behind. Our military needs the widest source of talent and commitment available, and should therefore exclude no one.
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The Wise Owl Says:
Max Anax junius -1,
If a Man loves more than one woman, why can’t he marry them all if everyone agrees? Isn’t the argument for Gay Marriage that it is up to consenting adults?
Sure. So?
You aren’t going to get me to argue that polygamy is bad, or that it’s not a similar issue. However, it does differ in this regard: everybody, regardless of who you are, gets the legal chance to marry somebody they’re romantically attracted to… unless they’re gay. Thus, there is a set of people who get to marry zero people. Wanting more than one is not exactly the same thing as being denied any.
April 30th, 2009 at 3:03 pmFor everyone else:
I find this guy’s blog to have very sound arguments to deal with all of this nonsense, specifically the anti-same-sex marriage debate:
http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/01
April 30th, 2009 at 3:04 pmThe Wise Owl Says
April 30th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
Gays have high incomes and economic power. Blacks still don’t.
__________________________________________________________
I’ll ignore your exaggerated stereotype for a moment and head straight to the obvious quesion. What in the world does having a high income and/or economic power have to do with being able to marry legally or being able to serve in the military?
Following this logic, all professional athletes playing in the major leagues of their sport should be denied permission to get married because, you know, they have “high incomes and economic power”. And let’s also apply this to corporate CEOs, movie stars, recording artists with major labels, etc. After all, they have “high incomes and economic power” as well.
Do you even SEE how ridiculous your argument is?
April 30th, 2009 at 3:06 pmThe Wise Owl Says
April 30th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
___________________________________________________________
“As for polygamy, If you support Gay Marriage you should support this too.”
– Why? Can you explain how a gay monogamous marriage is like polygamy? It’s like saying that if you like tomatoes, you should also like walnuts. Gay marriage is no more like polygamy than interracial marriage is. And we heard the same argument back in the 60’s from people who believed that people of different races shouldn’t marry. Not only would it lead to the legalization of polygamy, but people would be permitted to marry animals next.
“I am in a relationship with 2 women. I love both equally and they get along.”
– I’m happy for you.
“Why can’t I marry both of them if they agree. What about my Civil Rights to be happy?”
April 30th, 2009 at 3:16 pm– Because in this country, the rule is one spouse per person. This isn’t because the government doesn’t want you to be happy, it’s because the whole system of government benefits and entitlements is set up for each citizen to have a maximum of one spouse. Therefore, you only get one spouse recognized. But you can still shack up with as many women as you want. Talk to Hugh Hefner — perhaps he can advise you on this subject.
misscoleopteramolly Says:
I’ll ignore your exaggerated stereotype for a moment and head straight to the obvious quesion. What in the world does having a high income and/or economic power have to do with being able to marry legally or being able to serve in the military?
I believe Owl is trying to make a case for how disallowing marriage or military service to homosexuals is not a civil rights issue, by listing any difference he can think of between gay people and black people. Of course, this method fails all by itself. Disenfranchised groups are commonly disenfranchised in different ways. Applying the litmust test that they must all be disenfranchised in exactly the same way to qualify as a civil right issue could be used to imply that none of them are.
Example: “Blacks can get married and join the military. Gays still can’t.” Look, I just casually discounted the daily discrimination that all black people still face!
By the way, there are lots of poor gay people. It’s also legal in many states to fire somebody from their job just because they’re gay.
April 30th, 2009 at 3:21 pmOwl pellet flew off, for shame.
April 30th, 2009 at 3:25 pmYou know, ElBruce, I can complicate it even further. Having followed the glbt blogosphere post Prop. 8, there was fierce debate about the race issue: the way communities voted, race or faith questions.
I will admit that there was tension- some in the black community were upset at what was perceived as an all too easy connection between the gay and black civil rights movements. There was anger directed at the black community for high instances of “no” votes.
I believe that the same-sex marriage activists have learned a great deal about solidarity, partnering with communities of color and specifically gay and lesbians of color to take the reins in outreach. There needs to be complete respect for the specific and horrible struggle of the black community for rights, and to not casually associate the glbt struggle with it. I think there’s a lot of mutual respect that is only gaining momentum right now, and I think it’s looking good for 2010!
April 30th, 2009 at 3:32 pmrepublicans hate facts Says:
No, it’s the *JOB* of the state to deal with marriage as it relates to rights, estates and the welfare of children.
It doesn’t have to be “marriage” they’re dealing with. They could call it something else, provided that everybody gets the same thing, and it affects all of the same rights in the same way. Civil unions could be set up to handle that, making the government completely marriage-neutral.
I think there are a lot of people who even if they’re not particularly religious, think of marriage as a religious institution. For the state to be deciding who’s married and who isn’t is thus a violation of the separation of church and state.
But it’s fascinating that the social conservatives aren’t pushing this option at all. More so considering it benefits their stance in other ways as well. For example, in order to determine who (other than judges) can sign marriage certificates, each state has to keep a registry of certified reverends, as well as legal churches to say who’s a reverend. As a result, most states acknowledge priests of the Church of Satan as legal reverends. Also, witches. Getting rid of state-sanctioned marriage entirely would eliminate the need of keeping those records, also eliminating state-”sanctioned” Satanism and witchcraft. If I was an evangelical, I’d be all over it.
…except that then teh gays would get their rights.
So it’s interesting that they’re not.
April 30th, 2009 at 3:32 pmOFF TOPIC
I can watch Tamron Hall on TV all day.
April 30th, 2009 at 3:33 pmSlappyBastinado Says:
ralph, how does one “openly acknowledge their sexuality”? Is this act legal in public at this time or do more laws need changing?
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Why do you enjoy making yourself look stupid and pathetic? You KNOW what is meant here you moron. Everyone KNOWS what is being said here but YOU take it as an opportunity to say LOOK AT ME, I am so stupid and pathetic please pity me. Get some self respect man. We already KNOW you are stupid and pathetic so it is redundant for your every post to make it clear just HOW stupid and pathetic you are.
April 30th, 2009 at 8:13 pmThis is just further proof of why we shouldn’t make serious decisions about how to run this country based upon polls…
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I’m for outting all gays, in fact, they can wear bright colors to identify themselves. Most Muslim countries kill their gays.
May 3rd, 2009 at 9:34 pm