Rice: Nazis were less of a threat to the U.S. than al Qaeda; SCOTUS wouldn’t let us try detainees.
Rice: Nazis were less of a threat to the U.S. than al Qaeda; SCOTUS wouldn’t let us try detainees.
Speaking with a group of Stanford students Monday, former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice declared that al Qaeda is a greater threat to the United States than Nazi Germany was because Germany “never attacked the homeland of the United States.” In a defensive exchange with a student, she also insisted that the Bush administration had always wanted to hold trials for detainees, but the Supreme Court wouldn’t let them:
RICE: Now, the ICRC [International Committee of the Red Cross] also had access to Guantanamo. And they made no allegations about interrogations in Guantanamo. What they did say was that indefinite detention, where people didn’t know whether they’d come up for trial — which is why we tried under the military commissions system to let people come up for trial. Those trials were stayed by who? Who kept us from holding the trials?
STUDENT: I can’t answer that question.
RICE: Do your homework first. … It was the Supreme Court.
Watch it:
Of course, the Supreme Court “stayed” the Bush administration’s military commissions because they were woefully inadequate. The Court — three separate times — required the administration to come up with meaningful judicial review of suspects’ detentions. Indeed, last June the court held that military commissions “are not an adequate and effective substitute for habeas corpus” and thus “operates as an unconstitutional suspension of the writ.”
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Those weren’t trials. Trials are done in courts, with judges and everything. It was the Bush administration who refused to bring detainees to trial.
April 30th, 2009 at 12:57 pmI was a bit disappointed (rare) by the Prez answer yesterday. The larger issue isn’t whether it kept us safer. The larger issue is that we DO NOT TORTURE…PERIOD! Whether it keeps us safer or whether it works is not up for debate because we do not do it and should NEVER have done it…period!
April 30th, 2009 at 12:57 pmRice is like the squid: It can dazzle and confuse and muddy the water long enough to make its escape…
April 30th, 2009 at 1:02 pmWTF? These Bushites are totally crazy. It makes me reflect on the last 8 years and how a buffoon like Bush got elected in the first place.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:03 pmRice is beginning to sound more and more like just another wingnut whackjob in the mold of Goldberg, Malkin and Coulter.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:03 pmI hate to contradict someone as knowledgeable about history as Ms. Rice, but the Germans did attack the “homeland” during World War II. Boats in our shipping lanes just off the East Coast were attacked by German U Boats during the war. Unless you don’t consider our territorial waters part of the “homeland”.
I normally hate to cite Wikipedia, but I don’t think an academic of the caliber of Ms. Rice deserves anything better.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_North_America_during_World_War_II#United_States
April 30th, 2009 at 1:03 pmFool Zero Says:
Rice is beginning to sound….
Beginning ?
April 30th, 2009 at 1:08 pm.
R E M E M B E R:
She’s fighting for her freedom now…
… Rationalizing why she did what she did.
Dear Condi,
Was violating US Law and Common Article III doing it legally?
XXOO
America
p.s.
Japan attacked America and we still put them on trial for waterboarding.
.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:09 pmGuido the Loving OBGYN Says:
She’s crazy.
Heretofore, she was better than the others at keeping her cool, seeming level-headed and keeping some distance from anything too nutty. But her fingerprints are all over everything from WMD evidence to “retiring” generals to rendition and torture. She’s starting to sound kind of desperate.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:11 pmStill lying after all these years.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:12 pmfletc3her Says:
I hate to contradict someone as knowledgeable about history as Ms. Rice, but the Germans did attack the “homeland” during World War II.
Also, Pearl harbor…
April 30th, 2009 at 1:12 pmThese Bush White House officials know they’re on the wrong side of this issue–they are defending with all their might TORTURING other human beings. This isn’t lies about stains on the blue dress or making campaign calls from the White House–it is trying to defend the indefensible, This is their legacy.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:13 pmRice is guilty of authorizing torture and should be prosecuted with the rest of the Bush Crime Family. I could careless what explanation Rice provides it all reeks of guilt to me.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:13 pmThe Nazis were very close to completion of a deliverable nuclear weapon at the end of WW2.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:13 pmDoes Ms. Rice think they were not going to use it on the U.S.?
Have fun in prison, Condi.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:14 pmAmazing. The lengths and contortions to which Rice is willing to go in order to avoid facing up to the ugly historical truth of spearheading and approving the massively unprecedented US torture program is very similar to the denial of an alcoholic.
Of course, she had a perfect role model…
April 30th, 2009 at 1:15 pmI’d like to see a more in-depth exposure of Rice. The fact that Chevron had a tanker named after when she was nominated by Bush, her intimate role in the torture interrogations, her complicity with Rumsfeld and Cheney to ostracize Powell, etc…
She played several KEY roles in the Bush administration. Since we – the people – paid her salary for 8 years we – the people – are entitled to hold her accountable for her actions.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:15 pmWho invited Condi to Stanford anyway? Why are these criminals invited to speak ANYWHERE? If I was a dean of a college, I would never allow these people to be anywhere near an institution of learning.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:15 pmTHE SCOTUS WOULDN’T LET YOU TAKE THEM TO TRIAL CAUSE YOU INVENTED NOMENCLATURE TO ALLOW TORTURE OF SAID “ENEMY COMBATANTS”.
YOU STUPID WHORE.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:16 pmOk Ms. Rice I have a question for you. If al Queda was a bigger threat than Nazi Germany then why did your boyfriend divert all his resources to go after Saddam Hussein? Why was Osama bin Laden ignored for six years? Why did Dubya disband the CIA Bin Laden task force? If you had done YOUR homework you would know that there is a three part answer. FRIENDSHIP, OIL & REVENGE. The Bush family has decades long friendly relations with the Bin Ladens, Iraq is loaded with Texas Tea and Saddam made Pappy Bush look like a fool. Remember Condi, we actually stayed and fought German troops and caused the downfall of Nazi Germany and Adolph Hitler (despite your boyfriend’s grandpappy’s affections and business relationship with Adolph).
April 30th, 2009 at 1:18 pmP.D. Says:
Who invited Condi to Stanford anyway? Why are these criminals invited to speak ANYWHERE?
It seems to be working out for us. Kudos to the person who asked the question.
.
A Patriotic Anopheles Acting Says:
If al Queda was a bigger threat than Nazi Germany then why did your boyfriend divert all his resources to go after Saddam Hussein?
Because she helped to put together a fake case against him…
April 30th, 2009 at 1:24 pmHey Condi, what did Nazi Germany and al Queda have in common (other than their threat to America)? Both Hitler and Bin Laden had extensive business relationships with the f@cking Bush family!
April 30th, 2009 at 1:25 pmShorter Rice: If NeoCons do wrong then it is right.
The constant attempts are rewriting history are only fooling the fools.
Fcuk the Republicans
April 30th, 2009 at 1:26 pmAnd people still wonder how it was possible that Bush was the smartest person in the room while he was fouling the Oval Office ?
This type of ‘thinking’ sure goes a long way towards explaining that……..
April 30th, 2009 at 1:28 pm“Do your homework first….”
Man, this crew can’t even pretend to act dignified can they?
April 30th, 2009 at 1:29 pmHalf the work of selling the lie is believing it yourself…
April 30th, 2009 at 1:30 pmRice declared that al Qaeda is a greater threat to the United States than Nazi Germany was because Germany “never attacked the homeland of the United States.”
– The Condi Con. By that measure, al Qaeda is a greater threat then the Soviet Empire was, says the Soviet “expert” Condi.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:30 pmWould do you want to bet if the chips are down, Condi won’t hesitate to throw anyone under the bus? Rummy, Darth Chaney, Georgie. Just remember the investigations are just starting. I think Condi may be the smartest of the group, (that’s not saying much) But she will do it for her survival.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:32 pmThis IDIOT was once Secretary of State? Incredible.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:35 pmRice lecturing a student on homework . . . WTF? Ms. “no one could have imagined” needs to go back and do her homework and learn what exactly she took part in. My guess is, she’s going to be surprised now that she’s left the bubble / echo chamber.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:36 pmSCOTUS would not let us hold kangaroo courts.
There,Condi. I fixed it for you.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:37 pmIf al Qaeda was as significant a threat as Rice says, then can you tell me again why they didn’t take Richard Clark’s warnings seriously? Ignored the June 6th Presidential Brief or other warnings about possible terrorist activities until AFTER 9/11???
April 30th, 2009 at 1:38 pmWasnt me. Was Bush. Wasnt me. Was Supreme Court. Wasnt me. Was three-headed monkey.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ4axo9rmJY
April 30th, 2009 at 1:39 pmRice,Bush/Cheney and the rest of the criminals in his administration will never own up and tell the truth. Maybe they could use some of the interrogation methods on them that they authorized.That way everyone can see just how well it works. Fortunatly for them the US doesnt do that since Bush/Cheney are out.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:40 pmMs. Rice, “Does the very thought of torture and your role in its implementation disturb you in any way?”
April 30th, 2009 at 1:41 pmToo bad for Condi, that when she goes on trial it won’t be a batch of uncertain undergrads handling the proceedings.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:41 pmSo the Right-Wing militias are also more of a threat.
Timothy McVeigh did more damage to the homeland than Hitler.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:41 pmCodi also stated,”I also believe in unicorns and the toothfairy, and the earth is only 4,000 yers old…”
April 30th, 2009 at 1:41 pmThe Bush Administration is going to be haunted by most everything they did just like Robert S. McNamara was by Viet Nam. These students are just the beginning. Whether the administration is ever formally held accountable or not, people are going to keep asking these questions over and over and over…
April 30th, 2009 at 1:42 pmI’m willing to bet that, in the long run, BushCo will be a much larger threat to America than Al Queda. They damaged our view of ourselves and our standing in the world much more than Osama Bin Ladin ever could.
By the way, ElBruce @13, Germany didn’t attack Pearl Harbor.
John Belushi made the same mistake in the movie
I believe that BushCo was much more of a threat to America than Al Queda. They damaged our view of ourselves and our standing with the world’s other governments. A recent guest on Olbermann summed it up pretty well. He claims that Cheney is a very fearful person, as shown by his 5 military deferments, his “undisclosed locations” and his man-sized safe. I think his whole paranoid behavior permeated the Bush inner circle. The evidence is the statements coming from Rice, Cheney and the other tools from that administration.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:44 pmYeh, al qaeda has planes, submarines, giant battleships and tanks and stuff
April 30th, 2009 at 1:46 pmBush’s response to Hurricane Katrina did more damage to “Der Homeland” than Hilter did too.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:47 pmDid you also know that Hitler was not a danger to Britain, Russia or France? And that none of our troops died fighting the Germans?
/snark
April 30th, 2009 at 1:47 pmPlease excuse my idiocy in post #42. I thought that I had lost the post while composing, thus, the repitition.
The movie reference should be “1941″.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:49 pmThe Belushi quote was from Animal House, fergus. :)
April 30th, 2009 at 1:54 pmAnd she has a DOCTORATE? in Poly Sci or History, theoretically?
Geebutz, Stanford’s desirability as an institution of higher learning just fell about 60,000 notches.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:55 pmIn a way she’s clarifying the truth. They wanted to do illegal things and the Supreme Court stopped them.
That’s why they kept the torture secret, not that Condi would put it that way.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:56 pmHow do you say ‘blitzkrieg’ in arabic?
April 30th, 2009 at 1:56 pmLet’s be very clear…
The Bush Cabal did more damage to the USA than Hitler.
Pigs with lipstick, (Condi), are not to be trusted.
Condi, as you tread water safely in academia, know that we will never forget your traitorous actions.
AMERICA DOES NOT PHUCKING TORTURE! -Shep Smith / 4-09
April 30th, 2009 at 1:59 pmTrolls really shy away from the torture regime threads about the Bush administration…wonder why?
April 30th, 2009 at 2:03 pmDarn that Supreme Court! What the heck are they doing upholding the Rule of Law and the Constitution?!?
Heck, what right do they have preventing kangaroo courts anyways?
April 30th, 2009 at 2:06 pmGirlfriday can tell her story and do her homework when she’s at her own trial. So much for supporting Israel now Connie says the Nazi werent that bad. As uaual fix the lie to fit what you want. Connie’s mad because she lost the job at Stanford U. once the fact came to light that see lied about Torture and everything else. She can give a video to Stanford U. from her jail cell.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:07 pmYeah right condee.
hitler would have gotta your black ass faster than al Qaeda. For sure.
condee look in the mirror, you are, always were, a token.
you and and steeley damn are the 21st century versions of “passing.”
You two like being African-Americans when it suit your fancy.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:08 pmDo you really suppose ms rice that if “i was just taking orders” is not a defense that “i was just giving ordes” is a defense? pathetic, and getting worse.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:09 pmWhat a complete and utter joy watching these people responsible for torture, in the hot seat. But, riddle me this, Batman: Why is it that college students are clammoring for accountability and not the MSM?
Answer: The college students don’t recieve a corporate pay check.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:10 pmgoogle: Prescott Bush.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:13 pmgoogle: Major General Butler.
biff777 Says:
google: Prescott Bush.
google: Major General Butler.
Nazi collaborators.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:17 pmCondie,
There was this BIG thing call the Atlantic Ocean keeping the Nazis from attacking America. Also, I think they were too busy smacking down Europe and Russia – and winning! So, think for a minute here – stay with me now. Once they got done spanking Europe and Russia, who do you think would be next? China maybe? I little hint on whose next – not Africa or South America. Maybe …… America? With Japan attacking us, The Nazis could have started some crap with us too after Eurpoe failed. The Nazis did some big damage and would have kept on going you stupid spineless Boosch/Chainy defending grub!
To compare a fringe group of organized terrorist to the Nazis is stooopid
:/
April 30th, 2009 at 2:18 pmwe ’second guess’ crimes. That’s how justice works. Second guess away!
April 30th, 2009 at 2:20 pmRemember from your reading students: when FDR was aked about Hitler, he replied
“I truly am not that concerned about him.”
April 30th, 2009 at 2:22 pmThe Torture and detainee debate is a farce. There is only one way that this nation and especially the media will get around to admitting the truth. If and when all the facts come out, it wont be the torture or the BS that keeps spewing from the GOP and Dittoheads. It will be the deception and lies that came from shortly after 9/11 through 2008 that will show clearly that the United States government lied, and lied, and decieved, and lied some more to the public, the press, and the world about the entire “war on terror.” The deception, and the fact that we bought the deception hook line and sinker, is going to change the debate. We hate being suckers, and get all pissed off once we figure out we’ve been had. Of course most of the readers on this site were not had and knew the truth yrs ago.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:23 pmSecretary of State Condoleezza Rice declared that al Qaeda is a greater threat to the United States than Nazi Germany was because Germany “never attacked the homeland of the United States.”
Condi Rice conveniently forgets that Iraq never attacked America, Iraq had nothing to do with Al Qaeda, and Iraq never had ‘weapons of mass destruction’.
Rice, Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Feith, Rumseld, Powell, Richard Pearle, and all the neocons should be put on trial for war crimes. If they’re found guilty, they should receive the same sentences handed down to Germany’s Nazi leaders after WWII.
How many innocent Iraqi men, women, and children did the Bush Regime murder? 300,000? 500,000? 2,000,000?
April 30th, 2009 at 2:24 pmRice is in typical denial. it is making her unstable and perhaps dangerous to listen to.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:25 pmWow, I had to see this website to believe it. After 35 years travelling worldwide for business and charities, I think all of you would do yourself a service just once having a gun put to your head and wondering if this was the time the nut was going to pull the trigger. Dr. Rice was trying to convey to the ignorant how dangerous this enemy still is. The same message that our new president is warning us about. Thank you Dr. Rice for continuing the message as our president needs your help. Help him to protect our homeland so that I can continue my work. Because no country on the face of this earth does more for the poor, needy, and helpless than America.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:36 pmceltic cynic Says: ” The Nazis were very close to completion of a deliverable nuclear weapon at the end of WW2.
Does Ms. Rice think they were not going to use it on the U.S.?”
In addition; notwithstanding the results of the Battle of Britain (May-September 1940) the US Government had goo d reason to believe that Britain either would still be defeated by Germany or sue for peace–and either event would make Germany the de facto sole superpower.
So the United States Army Air Corps expected war with Germany in which long range air-power would be key. In April 1941 they asked for designs and bids on the worlds first intercontinental bomber, asking for a 12,000 mile range.
This became the B-36, intended to replace the B-29 which hadn’t even flown as a prototype at that point.
A Germany with GB’s defeat or capitulation represented real world domination.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:38 pmO/T Ape-Man, I was on another thread last week and asked you a question. Im assuming you didnt see it. Anyway im just curious about your screen name.Whenever i come onto TP and see your screen name the song Apeman by the Kinks goes through my head. Im a huge Kinks fan, I was just curious to know if thats where you got your name from. Thankyou.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:39 pmAt least Scott McClellen recognized his mistakes eventually, and turned from them.
Rice is merely cementing in her absolute guilt.
She’ll have no where left to turn now.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:41 pmInvited? They hired her! She returned to Stanford as a political science professor and senior fellow at the Hoover Institution on March 1, 2009, where students will get to learn from her. Scary thought.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:41 pmWhat a beeoch! No wonder she’s single.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:45 pmLove this, “the second guessing there would have been if we let 3,000 Americans die after 9/11…”. Um, Condi, over 4,000 more Americans died since we decided to invade a sovereign nation that did not attack us on 9/11.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:46 pmtim.ned, your self-serving character sketch has nothing to do with anything.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:46 pmquote should have been “3,000 more Americans die…”
April 30th, 2009 at 2:47 pmYIKES! How this woman ever got her Ph.D. and rose to provost at Stanford University is more of a mystery now more than ever.
Dude did okay, but when she said Germany never attacked the homeland, he should have said, “They were allied with Japan, who did.”
April 30th, 2009 at 2:50 pmI’ve had a gun pulled on me, tim.ned, and I don’t think some random detainee should be punished for it.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:52 pmwrong, tim, condi was terrorizing the ignorant with phony threats
looks like you are ignorant and cowardly enough to believe her
April 30th, 2009 at 2:52 pm#66 tim.ned Says:
Dr. Rice was trying to convey to the ignorant how dangerous this enemy still is.
Is that the same enemy that Donald Rumsfeld and Ronald Reagan gave all those weapons to? The same weapons that were used to kill 300 Marines in Beirut? Remember Iran/Contra?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Contra_affair
April 30th, 2009 at 3:01 pmCondolezza Rice is in the finals with Douglas Feith on America’s Got the Dumbest F-cking Person on Earth.
It’s not looking good for Feith.
April 30th, 2009 at 3:02 pmRice is now dancing the usual right wingnut two-step.
If your past actions currently bring you into disrepute, well, then merely deny that you did what you did. Revise historical fact. Obuscate and lie.
Maybe, this is how she is able to sleep at night.
April 30th, 2009 at 3:07 pmExactly. Germany dominated on the battlefield for the majority of the war. Their planes, technology, Tanks, weapons, Battleships, U-Boats. Etc. All were superior in many ways to the allies weapons. A Sherman couldn’t go toe to toe with a Panther. The Bismark was bigger and more powerful than anything. Their U-Boat fleets were unmatched and even their firearms, like the MG 36 and MG 42 or heavy artillery like the 88, were mauling the allied forces. And in the sky, the Messerschmitt 262 Jet Fighters that began seeing combat in 1944 could out fly any thing the allies had. And even later Jets were even faster and more powerfully armed than the 262.
If it weren’t for the allies ability to mass produce, we’d have lost the war.
Particularly as you pointed out, that Germany was close to an atomic bomb of their own.
Rice is the epitome of the Bush regimes staff, so unfamiliar with history, even recent history (See Dana “What’s a Cuban Missile Crisis Perino) as we’ve sadly seen, as they embarrass themselves and us, on camera in front of the entire world.
Germany was the greatest threat this world had ever known, and had cost the lives of millions and millions and millions of people. They exterminated 6 million Jew’s alone, not to mention the millions lost in their war. And it was, THEIR war.
They started it. And we finished it.
But Al Quaida being a bigger threat to us than WWII Nazi Germany?
What an embarrassingly stupid thing to say.
April 30th, 2009 at 3:10 pmSo, it looks like it’s going to be kicking and screeming from Rice. Too bad. I though she would learn her lesson.
April 30th, 2009 at 3:13 pmAs with the Nazi regime, the US tyrants tortured to get the false confessions they wanted. It had nothing to do with any fear of terror threats. How could a so called terrorist be privy to an attack when kept in total seclusion for years? And more importantly, why has there never been an any real investigation to find out who really did take out the World Trade Center Complex, not with airliners or fire, but by pre-installed demolition! Wake up folks.
April 30th, 2009 at 3:19 pmtim.ned Says:
Dr. Rice was trying to convey to the ignorant how dangerous this enemy still is.
By justifying torture? You lost me.
April 30th, 2009 at 3:25 pmcontinuum Says:
Maybe, this is how she is able to sleep at night.
Doesn’t look like she gets much sleep – she looks beat.
April 30th, 2009 at 3:26 pmMs. Rice, “Does the very thought of torture and your role in its implementation disturb you in any way?” — Above The Clouds
********************************************************
That would be an interesting question to ask her, no doubt — but ultimately, any answer she might give would be immaterial and irrelevant. If what she was doing troubled her at the time, she could always have resigned. In fact, since Bush consistently made it clear that he had no tolerance for anyone who questioned or challenged him and since there were plenty of other people who were willing to give him what he wanted, that probably would not only have been the only ethical choice but probably would have been the only one open to her. At any rate, whatever pangs of conscience she may have had at the time (if any) were obviously not enough to prevent her from agreeing of her own free will to comply. Regardless of her feelings, compliance amounts to consent and complicity — and especially in such a high-level position, consent and complicity amount to collusion and culpability. Perhaps she was simply “following orders” — but the only real threat that she would have faced had she chosen not to follow them would have been the loss of her position, and I find it hard to believe that a woman with her credentials would have been unable to find employment elsewhere. It might not have been quite as prestigious, but at least it would have allowed her to maintain her integrity.
If Rice has only begun having reservations over her role in the Bush administration after the fact, it’s clear that they still aren’t strong enough to stop her from attempting to defend their actions and her own contribution to them. If her conscience is troubling her over what happened (and it probably would have happened with or without her help), then she always has the option of choosing to make her mea culpas publicly. After all, don’t conservatives often trumpet the importance of taking personal responsibility for one’s actions? Granted, this would require a huge amount of courage on her part. Not only would she almost certainly be crucified by her former colleagues and those who continue to support them, it’s possible that she would also leave herself open for prosecution. At the same time, however, a voluntary admission of guilt and sincere remorse — especially if combined with a willingness to testify against her former colleagues — might make people more inclined to be lenient.
In any event, whatever her feelings might be about her role int he Bush administration’s use of torture, they neither change nor justify her role in it — in much the same way that someone who cheats on his/her significant other might sincerely regret it afterward, but still pay the price by losing that person’s love. Rightly or wrongly, we’re judged in this life by what we do — not merely by what we feel.
April 30th, 2009 at 3:30 pmHey! What happened to “no comment” during an investigation?
Does she acknowledge that she is under investigation, or will that take a while to sink in?
April 30th, 2009 at 3:33 pmOkay lady then how about the people who died in our custody ,
April 30th, 2009 at 3:45 pmthe Iraqi general who had a sleeping bag pulled over his head and was beaten to death ,
the subjects at abu graib ,
the extraordinarily rendered and disappeared who were tortured in black sites and the prisons of countries known to torture ,
or the British citizen who according to the guardian had a scalpel taken to his testicles ?
How is it that protecting us from Al Qaeda , a more dangerous threat than Nazi Germany , we invaded a country totally unconnected with al Qaeda or 911 , an action which led to the deaths of more than a million people, wounding of ten times that and refugeeing more than 4 million innocents ?
April 30th, 2009 at 4:02 pmWhy was it sold on entirely false and cherry picked intelligence ?
Maybe you should do a little homework on the project for a new American centuries paper , Rebuilding America’s Defences, which was signed of on by so many members of Bushes inner circle , which advocated the establishment of American global hegemony by the projection of American military might and the invasion of the middle East inorder to control world oil supplies .
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3249.htm
Rice declared that al Qaeda is a greater threat to the United States than Nazi Germany was because Germany “never attacked the homeland of the United States.”
No. But the Kaiser did.
April 30th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
The AG will not be swayed by Rice rants.
April 30th, 2009 at 4:05 pmCan anyone explain why her clear grasp of legal principles qualified her for high grades in college ?
April 30th, 2009 at 4:11 pm88. freeman,
let me add a friendly ammendment. You are only listing events which we KNOW about. Who knows what happened in secret ?
April 30th, 2009 at 4:12 pmDear Ms. Rice,
Has anyone ever compared you to John Dillinger’s moll?
A curious person.
April 30th, 2009 at 4:13 pmIs Rice part of Bush’s conspiracy to commit torture?
April 30th, 2009 at 4:20 pmIf not she is doing a horrible job of defending herself and i suggest a lawyer pronto.
delafield Says:
——————————————————————————–
#66 tim.ned Says:
No, that’s a different one.
April 30th, 2009 at 4:26 pmfergus Says:
By the way, ElBruce @13, Germany didn’t attack Pearl Harbor.
Their allies did. Her distinction amounts to splitting hairs.
.
tim.ned Says:
I think all of you would do yourself a service just once having a gun put to your head and wondering if this was the time the nut was going to pull the trigger.
Would that make me freak out and attack and torture innocent people? Because I don’t think becoming a crazy person counts as “doing myself a service.”
.
Tweedster Says:
biff777 Says:
google: Prescott Bush.
google: Major General Butler.
Nazi collaborators.
Actually Smedley Butler exposed the plot by a number of businessmen (inc. Bush) to back a coup of FDR. After they outlined their plan to install him as a fascist dictator, he went straight to Congress and testified the whole thing into the Congressional record. Names, dates, everything consistently and at length.
April 30th, 2009 at 4:29 pmIf never seen a more ‘defensive’ reaction. Rice is conflicted that she wants to believe her own arguments but she knows they won’t pass scrutiny. She is suppressing her own conclusions. It’s an excrutiaing dance called ‘rationalization’.
April 30th, 2009 at 4:35 pmOT:
sscncturn64 Says:
Hey, I’m a Kinks fan, as well.
Favorite? ‘Come Dancing’
2nd: ‘Rock & Roll Fantasy’
Ray Davies was just on Austin City Limits performing his new solo CD.
April 30th, 2009 at 4:41 pmRice has been drinking kool-aid from G.W. Bush’s urinal since he was chief capital punishment enforcer of texas.
She couldn’t identify a real threat to the nation today any more than she did when as National Security Advisor she was confronted with a PDB stating “Bid Ladin determine to strike inside the U.S.” nearly six months before 9/11.
She was too busy plotting the take over of Iraq to steal its oil resources for her former firm, Exxon.
April 30th, 2009 at 4:48 pmCalling all Smedley Butlers ….
Where are today’s people in high places who honor their oath to defend the Constitution over personal gain from political prostitution?
April 30th, 2009 at 4:58 pmThe Nazis and their allies were responsible for the deaths of 50 to 70 MILLION people.
April 30th, 2009 at 5:13 pmCondoleezza Rice
Student:
Condoleezza Rice:
The point to note however is that Presidential authorizations are only empowered by the constitution and the law and it isn’t the case that a president’s written order or verbal command or whatever always stands up as a legal, constitutional presidential authorization.
It isn’t the case that the word of the president alone becomes law because the president in a constitutional republic has limited powers and not the unlimited powers of a dictator or a monarch.
I am not a lawyer so I cannot say for sure whether US or international law outlaws waterboarding or not (though I trust it IS outlawed) but if it is illegal then the president couldn’t just overrule the law by saying – “it’s OK, I’m the president saying you can do it, so that makes it legal”.
To summarize I would say it sounds like Condi was fed some flimsy legal arguments in 2002 to justify the “enhanced interrogation” techniques thought to be expedient at the time but which many people would see as torture.
Conveying the president’s wishes to the CIA, Condi was acting as little more than a messenger, so don’t shoot the messenger.
Condi also mentions that the authorization was subject to the Justice Department’s clearance so if they cleared it, and they are the lawyers responsible then it is their fault for not giving better legal advice.
The Justice Department should have said “no way is waterboarding legal” and their failure to do so has brought us to this point.
It needs to be understood that the National Security Advisor job Condi was doing in 2002 has no executive command responsibilities.
Condi could not tell the CIA what to do because only the President gives the orders and only the Director of Central Intelligence, a.k.a. “the Director of the CIA”, (then George Tenet), directed the CIA how to interrogate people.
Peter Dow,
Rice for President Yahoo Group
“Condoleezza Rice for President in 2012. Join this group of supporters from everywhere on the world wide web.”
April 30th, 2009 at 5:59 pmZimzone @ 99 — Great tunes, both of them. Somehow, given the topic of this thread, the song ‘Who’ll Be The Next In Line?’ also seems fitting. Best Kinks song was Sunny Afternoon.
April 30th, 2009 at 6:09 pmPeter Dow Says:
It isn’t the case that the word of the president alone becomes law because the president in a constitutional republic has limited powers and not the unlimited powers of a dictator or a monarch.
Great post, thanks.
I keep pointing out that if there is a working definition of fascism, “unitary executive theory” sums it up and explains it perfectly.
It seems like she turned something around there. At first it’s sounding like the President ordered them not to do anything illegal. But by the end of it, she’s pulling a full Nixon: saying that because he had ordered them not to do anything illegal, whatever they did couldn’t have bee illegal.
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Peter Dow Says:
To summarize I would say it sounds like Condi was fed some flimsy legal arguments in 2002 to justify the “enhanced interrogation” techniques thought to be expedient at the time but which many people would see as torture.
No, they knew it was illegal at the time. They couldn’t have not known that the President is not a king.
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Peter Dow Says:
It needs to be understood that the National Security Advisor job Condi was doing in 2002 has no executive command responsibilities.
Condi could not tell the CIA what to do because only the President gives the orders and only the Director of Central Intelligence, a.k.a. “the Director of the CIA”, (then George Tenet), directed the CIA how to interrogate people.
I was wondering about that. It brings up the interesting side question, who exactly did she “convey authorization” to, since as National Security Advisor she was in no official chain of command? Why circumvent the normal chain of command? Who obeyed authorizations handed to them by Dr. Rice, and why?
April 30th, 2009 at 7:17 pmAnd so, by definition, if it was authorized by the president it did not violate our obligations under the convention against torture.
Just thought of something – according to this argument, they could have beheaded, castrated and disemboweled people and try to say it’s legal. They could have dragged Congress and the SCOTUS off to Gitmo, used the military to shut down the media outlets, all legal. The problem with this argument is that there are no hypothetical limits to their behavior whatsoever. It fails the critical test of describing what would not be legal.
April 30th, 2009 at 7:21 pmShe’s sounding quite desperate and very ill prepared. Of course, she doesn’t have factual or moral substance with which to prepare a defense of the factually and morally indefensible. The more we have come to know about her, the less honorable she appears to be. Stay tuned – it’s going to get a lot nastier.
April 30th, 2009 at 7:57 pmI hope Rice remembers her position on waterboarding every time she sits down to diddle on her piano.
April 30th, 2009 at 8:01 pm@107 republicans hate facts Says:
Ya, look how fast cheney accepted his new role as “Darth Cheney”.
April 30th, 2009 at 8:07 pmTim.ned
Your post has WHAT to do with Condalizzard saying something dumb like al Queda is more dangerous than the Nazis and an outright lie like the SC stopped them from trying detainees. The SC stopped them from giving them UNFAIR trials. Your stupidity really isnt OUR problem. Try to keep up moron
April 30th, 2009 at 8:20 pmGreatest threat to America? Lessee . . .
In 1861, a victorious enemy army within a days march of taking Washington and splitting the country into permanently hostile petty states . . .
The same threat again, from a larger, better led army in 1862, after a series of battles in which 72,000 Americans were killed or wounded . . .
In 1863, an enemy army considered by many the “finest ever to march to drum” marches across Pennsylvania, one victory away from capturing or besieging Washington, Baltimore, Philadelphia, or New York . . .
In 1864, Washington is defenseless as another enemy army threatens to attack and capture the city, shattering the nation after three years of fighting in which a half-million men have died over trying to save it.
Comparable to a single, ghastly terrorist attack that killed three thousand people and destroyed a couple of buildings? You decide.
April 30th, 2009 at 9:28 pmJust thought of something – according to this argument, they could have beheaded, castrated and disemboweled people and try to say it’s legal. They could have dragged Congress and the SCOTUS off to Gitmo, used the military to shut down the media outlets, all legal. The problem with this argument is that there are no hypothetical limits to their behavior whatsoever. It fails the critical test of describing what would not be legal. — ElBruce
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Exactly. That’s why I said what I did on the other thread today pertaining to Rice…that her remarks demonstrate my concerns about Bush over the past eight years were neither irrational nor unfounded.
Bush’s actions showed time and time again that he saw himself as above the law and that he had no tolerance whatsoever for anyone who questioned or challenged him. Both of those qualities tend to be hallmarks of political despots and religious cult leaders — both of whom can pose a significant threat to the physical and emotional well-being of anyone over whom they claim authority once they start down the slippery slope of claiming that anything and everything they do is somehow justified. Historically, it’s always been the people with this sort of mentality who were responsible for purges and other atrocities — and they’ve almost always used “safety”, “freedom”, or some other highly-evocative buzzword as an excuse for their brutality. Had Bush done any of the things which you mention, it frankly would not have surprised me.
April 30th, 2009 at 9:32 pmThe student should have retorted that if Condo Rice had done her homework we wouldn’t be at war now, and 9/11/01 would be remembered as the day 19 foreign nationals were arrested trying to board airliners carrying box cutters.
She’s terribly arrogant for someone who has been so catastrophically wrong so often about so many things.
April 30th, 2009 at 10:06 pmSorry Condi, while one of my friends was serving in Patton’s tank corp, his girlfriend (and later, wife) sat on the beach here in NC and watched German U boats, after they had torpedoed our merchant ships, surface and shell them with the deck gun.
Just off the East Coast, there are hundreds of sunken American vessels,and thousands of Americans in them.
Madame, have you no shame?
April 30th, 2009 at 10:24 pmWhile former SOS Rice’s claim is ridiculous, there’s nothing to be gained by refuting it with bad history . . .
The Nazis were very close to completion of a deliverable nuclear weapon at the end of WW2.
No, they were not. The Germany atomic research program fizzled after 1942, partly due to lack of resources, partly due to lack of interest in the Nazi high command, and partly because most of the best German nuclear physicists were Jewish and had fled the country before the war. Some stout work by Allied bombers and Norwegian resistance fighters finished off any prospects for a Nazi bomb.
Germany dominated on the battlefield for the majority of the war.
The German army was tactically superior to most of their opponents for most of the war, but they still managed to lose most of the battles in the second half of the war.
A Sherman couldn’t go toe to toe with a Panther.
True, but the majority of the tanks fighting the Panthers were Russian T-34s, a superior weapon in most ways.
The Bismarck was bigger and more powerful than anything . . .
German battleships were distinctly inferior to the better American and Japanese battleships. They never met those ships because almost the entire German fleet got sunk by the British, who were better sailors than the Germans.
Their U-Boat fleets were unmatched . . .
Good boats, well handled, but superior British tactics and American technology broke and defeated them by mid 1943.
Even their firearms, like the MG 36 and MG 42 or heavy artillery like the 88, were mauling the allied forces.
The Germans had a superior machine gun, but American artillery was far better than German artillery, and everyone else’s equipment was a reasonably close match.
The Messerschmitt 262 Jet Fighters that began seeing combat in 1944 could out fly any thing the allies had.
German jets didn’t have any particular effect on the war. Not enough of them. British and Soviet aircraft were as good as German aircraft, British electronics and American aircraft were noticeably better.
If it weren’t for the allies ability to mass produce, we’d have lost the war.
An “ability to mass produce” is a basic requirement for fighting and winning a big 20th Century war. Nations that could not do this–like Japan and Italy–were fighting way out of their league. The Germans botched their mass production program, and that’s the biggest reason they lost the war.
Germany was the greatest threat this world had ever known, and had cost the lives of millions and millions and millions of people. They exterminated 6 million Jew’s alone, not to mention the millions lost in their war. And it was, THEIR war.
In an odd way, this is one of the reasons the Germans fought as long and as well as they did. They picked fights with everyone and slaughtered millions of people who had no quarrel with them. They felt they had no choice but to fight to the finish, on the assumption that their enemies would deal with them as brutally as they had dealt with all their victims.
Fooled them, didn’t we?
April 30th, 2009 at 10:48 pmCondi will hang for TREASON along with the rest of them.
Conspiracy to subvert the Geneva Conventions (the recognized law of the land) when you have taken an oath to protect and defend said law is TREASON.
CONDI YOU ARE A TRAITOR.
ARREST HER ASS ANYWHERE SHE STEPS FOOT.
April 30th, 2009 at 10:48 pmpdennany Says:
As with the Nazi regime, the US tyrants tortured to get the false confessions they wanted. It had nothing to do with any fear of terror threats. How could a so called terrorist be privy to an attack when kept in total seclusion for years?
AHHH, I have been thinking the exact same thing of late. Cheney’s only intent on torturing was to get the FALSE information he KNEW waterboarding evoked. ANd we knew that because the Koreans had been tried and hung for waterboarding our GIs, and they did it to get the FALSE confessions out of them.
SO when cheney says there are documents that “prove that waterboarding works” look at what he says. “It works”, not that it gets the TRUTH, but that “it works” It works for his purpose which are to get confessions of bullshit plans that obviously are no longer actionable or even likely to happen. But keep these people pent up and unable to offer opposition, break them. That was their objective. To get useful confessions out of the people to use against them in their kangaroo courts, that condi just loved.
Hang all of these traitors.
April 30th, 2009 at 11:09 pmMs. Rice,
al Qaeda was more of a threat than Nazi Germany? You have got to be kidding! Where did you get your Phd? From the back of a book of matches. What a bimbo.
May 1st, 2009 at 12:12 am.
Dear Peter Dow,
Where is Condi’s “smoking gun”?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9Xlp7l7K1Q
.
May 1st, 2009 at 3:11 amI think we could make a fairly convincing argument that the Bush administration has been more of a threat to the United States than Nazi Germany was.
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In a perfect world Rice would be wearing a lovely orange jumpsuit right now. Unfortunately she wouldn’t be wearing matching Manolos.
May 1st, 2009 at 10:54 amI would agree with Rice that Nazi’s were less of a threat than al Qaeda but only because we created al Qaeda back in the 80’s. The Nazi’s probably weren’t going to attack us for a number of years while al Qaeda had just recently attacked us. It’s still no excuse for invading Iraq…and country that had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11.
May 1st, 2009 at 11:38 amI would agree with Rice that Nazi’s were less of a threat than al Qaeda but only because we created al Qaeda back in the 80’s. The Nazi’s probably weren’t going to attack us for a number of years while al Qaeda had just recently attacked us. It’s still no excuse for invading Iraq…and country that had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11.
An interesting angle, but a couple of problems.
First, the Nazis DID attack us. They formed an alliance with Japan for the specific purpose of making war on the British Empire, the Soviet Union, and the United States. The Germans needed the Japanese fleet to engage the Americans and British and wanted the Japanese army to attack the Soviets in Siberia. Likewise, the Japanese needed the German army and air forces to keep the Americans and Europeans from putting their full strength against Japanese plans to conquer East Asia.
The Japanese fired the first shots, of course, but the Germans, as they had agreed to do, declared war on the United States two days after the Japanese attack.
The second point would be that the “Axis” alliance in 1942 controlled the worlds most powerful army, the worlds second most powerful navy, and most of the industrial and mineral resources of mainland Europe and East Asia. Al Queda, in 2001, consisted of a few hundred trained terrorists, a few thousand armed supporters, and whatever money Osama Bin Laden in his friends had hidden in their Swiss bank accounts.
Not really the same scale of threat.
May 1st, 2009 at 12:46 pm