What Did Pelosi Know About Torture And What Could She Have Done About It?
What Did Pelosi Know About Torture And What Could She Have Done About It?
ABC News reported last night that Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) was “was briefed on the use of ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’ on terrorist suspect Abu Zubaydah in September 2002,” according to a documents prepared by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. The documents appear to contradict Pelosi’s previous claims that she did not know that the Bush administration had employed the “enhanced interrogation techniques” authorized by the Office of Legal Counsel.
In a February 25 interview with MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow, Pelosi explained what she knew about the Bush administration’s use of torture, saying that she had been briefed but was not told that the techniques had been used:
PELOSI: They did not brief us that these enhanced interrogations were taking place. They were talking about an array of interrogations that they might have at their disposal. … We were never told they were being used. … The inference to be drawn from what they told us was that these are things that we think could be legal. … But they never told us that they were being used.
Watch it:
Pelsoi’s spokesperson, Brendan Daly, reiterated this position yesterday, stating, “As this document shows, the speaker was briefed only once, in September 2002. The briefers described these techniques, said they were legal, but said that waterboarding had not been used.” But in a one-sentence description of the meeting, the CIA document states the Pelosi was given a “description of enhanced interrogation techniques” that were used on Abu Zubaydah. Based on Daly’s statement, it appears that Pelosi was in fact aware that at least some of the “enhanced techniques” — though not waterboarding — had been used.
That said, in a letter accompanying the new documents, CIA Director Leon Panetta explains that it is possible that the CIA’s description of the briefing is inaccurate. Panetta explains that its report is based on the “best recollections” of those in attendance and states that the Senate Intelligence Committee, to whom they sent the report, “will have to determine whether this information is an accurate summary of what actually happened”:
While it remains unclear what Pelosi knew and when she knew it, it should not be forgotten that Pelosi did not write the memos authorizing the use of torture or carry that torture out; the Bush administration did. Further, the CIA briefed Pelosi without staff, told her their practices were legal, and forbade her from discussing the meeting with colleagues. As such, Pelosi could not work to “outlaw the practices.” Marc Ambinder notes that the only way Pelosi could have registered her objections at that time was to “walk out of the briefing, telling those CIA officials who came that what she just heard did not constitute a formal briefing.” The result? The CIA would have simply tried to re-brief her at a later date, but the Bush administration would have continued to carry out torture anyways.
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the documents appear to contradict Pelosi’s previous claims that she did not know that the Bush administration had employed the “enhanced interrogation techniques”
– - Here’s the pdf which proves noth-ing.
http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/enhanced-interrogation-briefings-to-congress.pdf
Here’s the short version:
CIA: “Here’s a list, but we won’t vouch for its accuracy.”
ABC: “We’ve proven that Nancy was wrong!!”
ABC, after having been burned in the past, took documents that the CIA itself said might not be accurate, and treated them as accurate.
May 8th, 2009 at 12:06 pmpelosi was guilty the second she said that impeachment was off the table.
just like the mafia……if you can’t take them down on murder….you get them for tax evasion.
Pelosi can join Reid with Bush at the gallows.
May 8th, 2009 at 12:08 pmThe Bush administration was going to do whatever it wanted – no matter who spoke up about it. Bush was very adept at bringing in certain Dems so he could create the patina of acceptance. Bush (er, Cheney) knew how to work the ref’s….
May 8th, 2009 at 12:08 pmWith all the investigation foot dragging, one could easily conclude Congress was complicit in torture.
May 8th, 2009 at 12:11 pmThe Obama Justice Department should bring cases. America’s courts, including the Supreme Court, need to weigh in.
This issue is too important to leave to future Presidents and a spineless Congress.
May 8th, 2009 at 12:13 pmJesus Christ. Investigate everybody and let the chips fall where they may. I don’t give a crap anymore. I want the people responsible for the torture prosecuted. I don’t give a rat’s ass if they are a D. or a R. It must be done.
May 8th, 2009 at 12:13 pmHelp me here…….
Even if Pelosi did “know” what if anything could she do about it at the time – Would it have been Top Secret ?
The only contentious thing I can see here is her CYA denials in recent moths, but why would she do that if she could not talk about it in 2002 ? Be real easy to say yeah I knew but was gagged !
May 8th, 2009 at 12:14 pmNo matter how this shakes out we all know both sides of the political isle have dirty skirt’s…The mere fact the Dem’s were block and tacklers for the Rep.s during the last 8 years is nuff said…The main fact remains, only a very few like Kucinich, Feingold and a few other’s have kept their oath to protect our constitution and the people of our country…The majority on both side’s have been on constant campaign’s to beef up their individule coffer’s…Our country is now and for some time been run by a bunch of self imposed tiny dictators, not working for their voter’s, only working for corporate america and the mighty dollar..As the wind blows in different directions so do’s the polatician….P.B. & J
May 8th, 2009 at 12:17 pmIf she was invovled or knew and did nothing, then she should be investigated and prosecuted just like the Bushies should. Justice and the Rule of Law (although a seemingly archaic idea in American government these days, unless it’s being applied to the poor or a minority) needs to be applied EQUALLY!
When did it become acceptable for ANY of our public leaders to get away with the most heinous crimes known to mankind?
America is in grave trouble if it takes backlash from the citizenry in order to have the long-established rule of law enforced.
May 8th, 2009 at 12:18 pmWhat difference does it make what Pelosi knew about anything? Is she leading the charge to hold these torturers accountable? NO.
So the Cheney gang is coming in saying, Pelosi knew about it! Pelosi knew about it! So?
Does it make torture right? NO. Does it exonerate those who violated the character of this country? NO.
Investigate to the fullest, and who cares if there is an R or a D next to to the name.
May 8th, 2009 at 12:19 pmI’m pretty sure that all of us has thought that she knew about this along and that was one of the reasons for her taking impeachment of the table. Correct?
May 8th, 2009 at 12:19 pmFry the bytch she knew she lied. End of Story
May 8th, 2009 at 12:20 pmMaybe we can be rid of Pelosi now. That would be nice.
May 8th, 2009 at 12:20 pmPelosi got to be Speaker because she was in the back pocket of the Bush Administration. Pelosi played the game and knew the secrets as well as cooperating with Bush/Cheney. She got over her head and now is scared her part in this mess will come out. Just look at the tapes of her the morning after Bush’s second win and she annonced she would clean up the Govenment as the new Speaker. Yes her first private meeting with George W. Bush ended with one point ” IMPEACHMENT IS OFF THE TABLE AND WE SHOULD JUST PRAY” Bush gave Pelosi a list of crimes and cooperation she had done even getting Govenment contracts for her husband and the White House would expose all of it. Pelosi knew of the torture and did nothing because she was part of the Bush team. Now she wants the public to think she knew nothing. Feinstein got paid and we know Dodd got that 200,000 dollars gift he says he took but didn’t know what it was for. Rep. Cantor got his money as his wife received free bailout money. McConnell’s wife even campaigned with taxpayers money for her husband. If Obama were to release information of crimes and stealing done over the pass 8 years we would loose 2/3’s of our Law Makers from both Parties. Corruption was the Law in the US Govenment and many benefitted from it. Pelosi will be exposed for her part and like others she will take her stolen money and retire with it. What’s sad is the first female US Speaker of the House was a failure and a crook.
May 8th, 2009 at 12:20 pmI agree with everyone here, especially Witch1’s ‘block and tacklers’ comments. The Democrats need to clean up their act, and if it takes a thorough investigation into torture to do so, I’m all for it. Regardless if she could’ve stopped it, she could’ve done something to bring this to light, or at least have the integrity to atone for time period that was ruled completely by fearmongering and misinformation.
May 8th, 2009 at 12:22 pmOne minute I feel that I know nothing will be done.
May 8th, 2009 at 12:22 pmThe next minute I feel that there is no possible way the United States can regain any of it’s standing in the world without real investigations and prosecutions.
Then based on that I figure that they will pay.
But then again, I guess you can’t prosecute half of the government.
She knew…she didn’t know…I don’t give a crap.
I want those that designed, set up, and carried out the program of torture charged and imprisoned. Period.
That’s what should matter.
May 8th, 2009 at 12:24 pmI don’t care for Pelosi, but there’s nothing in the documents to support the accusation against her.
Also, we now know that torture had already begun 35 days before the first briefing, so even the briefers weren’t being honest.
May 8th, 2009 at 12:26 pmAs I said months earlier, she knew and did nothing about it…
…which is why impeachment was off the table.
May 8th, 2009 at 12:28 pmGood posts all..Let us not forget by her own admission palosi also knew before anyone else, bush’s wire tapping game….Blessings
May 8th, 2009 at 12:28 pmThis is why I *gag* every time I hear the politicians say (especially when Bush said it) how “transparent” our system of govt. is.
Baloney; anytime there are “closed door” hearings or meetings that are Top Secret, transparency ends there.
What we the people really get is the bread and circus’s.
May 8th, 2009 at 12:29 pmFear is a powerful drug. All of these so-called “workers of and for the people” were scared to death of being called “un-patriotic” by the “faketriots” of FAUX, and all of the rest of the media cheerleading squads. These so-called politicians were afraid of being tried for treason bt a bunch of Chickenhawk, Chickenshit, individuals.
TORTURE IS WRONG!!! WE DO NOT TORTURE!!! THE U.S. IS BETTER THAN ANY TERROIST!! Bullish.
We have become a nation of scared little men and women (lower case done purposely), so scared that we allowed what was left of or morals to be compromised, compromised by the most treasonous among us, and because of ideology some are to dumb to see it.
If Ms. Pelosi was briefed then she should be treated with disgust just like all of the others who allowed their fear to control them. You dont think my Soldiers and I were afraid when we were sent to go fight, we damn sure were, but you can believe we didnt let it cloud our judgement, and we all did what was right and legal, and if someone wanted to go beyond the levels of deceny and respect, I didnt let it happen, and people see that and when they do you’ll be surprised at the cooperation you would get.
Come clean Ms. Pelosi, all its gonna cost you is your seat, but at least your conscience is clear, if you have one.
RIP
May 8th, 2009 at 12:35 pmSGT Stephen R. Sherman
C CO 1-5 IN (STRYKER)
KIA 3 Feb 2005
Mosul, Iraq
But in a one-sentence description of the meeting, the CIA document states the Pelosi was given a “description of enhanced interrogation techniques” that were used on Abu Zubaydah.
The operative words in the above sentence have been bolded. This DOES NOT say that she knew the techniques were being used on prisoners. All it says is that she was briefed on the techniques. Now, if that sentence said she was “briefed on the fact that they had waterboarded Zubaydah” then the premise of this article would be true.
I am not a particular fan of Pelosi, but I don’t want to see her blamed for something she did not do.
I am sure that many of you would say that she should have said something anyway. But, it would have been her word against theirs and we all know the Bushies would have lied through their teeth.
May 8th, 2009 at 12:36 pmIf Pelosi and or Reid are in fact complicit in torture, then they should be held accountable with anyone else and forced to pay the price for such despicable behavior. It explains a lot about her past behavior, I agree.
What Pelosi and Reid and others need to understand is that unlike Republicans, we Democrats and Progressives WILL PROSECUTE our own!
Not for the sake of the party but for the sake of the country.
May 8th, 2009 at 12:41 pmIs it possible that this is the reason that the constitutional protection in the articles of impeachment was never used ?
I would like to think otherwise but the fact remains the most impeachable presidency in our countries history was given a free pass to break numerous national and international laws by the democratic leadership and the house leader in particular !
May 8th, 2009 at 12:41 pmThat meeting by the CIA was a simple excercise in CYA. They did not come to it with the intention of full disclosure but with the entention of giving just enough info in such a manner to have a scape goat as needed. They are trying to use that goat now.
Sorry guys you were just to transparent for this to work.
May 8th, 2009 at 12:42 pmThis story was broken in 2007 by the Washington Post, but was largely ignored.
I learned about it on Coup by Memo
May 8th, 2009 at 12:45 pm98 prisoners died while being tortured by Americans and no one goes to jail for that?! This is not the America that I know and love!
So what’s the difference between the Bushies torturing 98 prisoners to death and say some far-right wing white-power fringe group kidnapping brown people in America who they suspect as terrorists and torturing them to death? Oh right, the Bushies are WEALTHY politicians!…The defacto American get-out-of-jail-free card.
I feel ashamed of myself now for having believed during the presidential campaign that Barack Obama (or ANY candidate) would restore the rule of law when elected.
May 8th, 2009 at 12:47 pmTo #8 Witch1, excellent comment and very true. I agree with what you say 100%.
May 8th, 2009 at 12:48 pmThe CIA can forbid a congressperson from doing something? Unless it’s the law, they can forbid anything.
May 8th, 2009 at 12:49 pmI haven’t heard yet, but is impeachment of Pelosi off the table?
May 8th, 2009 at 12:50 pmPelosi, Reid and other democrats did know about torture. This is why the Obama justice department will not pursue this. They have to protect their party leaders you know. *Shaking with anger*
May 8th, 2009 at 12:50 pmIgnoranceIsNotBliss Says:
I’m pretty sure that all of us has thought that she knew about this along and that was one of the reasons for her taking impeachment of the table. Correct?
I disagree. I think that Pelosi kept impeachment off the table because she and the other Democrats were afraid that they would lose the election if they started impeachment proceedings against Bush. I am not sure that would have happened, but considering the attitude of the Republicans towards our current President, I do know that it would have been a real mess and could very well have thrown the election to the Republicans.
May 8th, 2009 at 12:52 pmIt would be convenient for the right to make this about Pelosi. But it’s not about her. It’s a red herring. Let’s not forget, Porter Goss was there too. Why isn’t he being mentioned? Why are we taking the eye off the ball about who authorized it in the first place?
I don’t excuse anyone who didn’t come forward and that would include Pelosi. But she’s not really the one responsible for what took place.
May 8th, 2009 at 12:58 pmThe problem is, Progressives and Cons are interested in two completely different things here. Pros are interested in who’s guilty, Repug OR Dem, and seeing that justice is served. Cons on the other hand see this only in terms of public blame and how that might effect elections. Notice how the Cons recently said “if you go after Bush we’ll go after Clinton”. Has nothing to do with the truth, only who they can point fingers at. Once again, utter immaturity.
May 8th, 2009 at 1:03 pmThe news media has done absolutely zero investigative reporting for the past eight years and now they claim to have busted a big deal leaving out the fact that the decision makers, Bush Crime Family, were still the people who hired ambulance chasing attorneys to have them write permission slips to torture against the US law and International treaties we have entered into. Somehow they can blame the minority leader for being somewhat briefed (it is unclear what that briefing entailed). Why they are threatening the Clinton administration of being investigated if their fuhrer W is investigated. I say, Bring it On! I have faith the crooks have (R) associated with their names.
May 8th, 2009 at 1:07 pmmy sense of right and wrong doesn’t depend on my political affiliatioin and i’m sure everyone should agree with that.
May 8th, 2009 at 1:07 pmTHOSE BRIEFED BY THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION WOULD HAVE BEEN ACCUSED OF AND OR PROSECUTED FOR TREASON DURING A TIME OF WAR HAD THEY REVEALED WHAT THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION TOLD THEM, AND THEY ARE STILL SUBJECT TO PROSECUTION IF THEY REVEAL WHAT THEY WERE TOLD.
We shouldn’t still be in a position where political spin of any persuasion is arguably relevant. We should be investigating and letting the chips fall where they may. Also, the opportunity to testify under oath will give those who are in the right the ability to factually/legitimately defend themselves against false, incomplete and or inaccurate accusations.
It is my understanding that whatever members of congress were briefed on, they were required to sign a non-disclosure agreement which mandated prosecution if they EVER revealed what they were told. Had they revealed “state secrets” during a “time of war”, the Bush administration would have accused and or prosecuted them for treason!
May 8th, 2009 at 1:08 pmThank you for the notice Uncle Fester..We do indeed seem to be on the same page….Blessings
May 8th, 2009 at 1:09 pmBilbo and IINB both make a good point. On one hand impeaching Bush could have brought up the subject of torture and possibly opening up a pandoras’ box of implications pointing at both democrats and republicans.
On the other hand we cannot forget the recent history of the spineless democrats who are afraid of their own shadows and were afraid of upsetting Bush or the republicans when they were in the majority.
I have heard Pelosi and other democrats say they didn’t want to move forward with impeachment because “America” didn’t want it. In reality they could make us believe they didn’t want to impeach Bush because it could make them lose the elections but that could just be a convenient excuse for them to NOT move forward with impeachment.
In my opinion, Pelosi and the democrats failed to uphold their oaths of office by not pursuing impeachment against Bush & Cheney and now President Obama is going to turn his back on the war crimes committed by the Bush administration. Our government really does suck no matter who is in charge. They protect their own and serve the banks, Wall Street, corporations, Oil/energy companies and the War industry.
May 8th, 2009 at 1:09 pmSpeaking of Justice….What ever happened to Tom Delays trial in Texas or Karl Rove ignoring a congressional subpoena? Seems these two items have conveniently and quietly been swept under the rug by the media and the government.
May 8th, 2009 at 1:11 pm#40 Uncle Fester, dito and good post again, Thank you for posting…Blessings
May 8th, 2009 at 1:11 pmosage Says:
It is my understanding that whatever members of congress were briefed on, they were required to sign a non-disclosure agreement which mandated prosecution if they EVER revealed what they were told. Had they revealed “state secrets” during a “time of war”, the Bush administration would have accused and or prosecuted them for treason!
I’m not sure that they would have prosecuted her. They would have simply said that she was lying. It would have been her word against theirs. And at that time, most of the public was still believing the lies that they were telling.
May 8th, 2009 at 1:16 pmIf I were Rep. Pelosi, bound to secrecy, why not innocently introduce a bill to specifically outlaw the “enhanced” torture techniques and call a press conference? Tell the media, “as far as I know the U.S. government isn’t torturing anybody, but caution dictates a reaffirmation of the principle that we do not torture.”
May 8th, 2009 at 1:19 pmAlejandro Says:
The CIA can forbid a congressperson from doing something? Unless it’s the law, they can forbid anything.
It is not a “law”, but it is part of the rules of the House. Everyone who was briefed was required to sign a non-disclosure agreement. Besides, if Pelosi had attempted to blow the whistle on them, the Bush Administration would have called her a liar and accused her of playing “partisan politics”. At the time all this happened, the American public was still believing the lies that the Bush Crime Family were telling. The end result of Pelosi attempting to blow the whistle on them would have probably ended with her expulsion from the House.
May 8th, 2009 at 1:21 pmThank you Witch1 and blessings to you also.
I did vote for President Obama and know how much he has on his plate but I must say that I am not happy with him freezing the cost of living increase of those who survive day to day off of their social security retirement funds or social security disability.
These people need the most help and the government is going to freeze their measly cost of living increase while thinking nothing of continually bailing out the banksters and the Wall Street crooksters. I wonder if he will freeze any raises for congress?
May 8th, 2009 at 1:22 pmrmwarnick Says:
If I were Rep. Pelosi, bound to secrecy, why not innocently introduce a bill to specifically outlaw the “enhanced” torture techniques and call a press conference? Tell the media, “as far as I know the U.S. government isn’t torturing anybody, but caution dictates a reaffirmation of the principle that we do not torture.”
You seem to be forgetting that this all happened at a time when the Republicans were in total control of Congress. During the first 6 years of the Bush Administration the Republicans didn’t allow ANY Democratic sponsored legislation even make it to the floor for a vote.
May 8th, 2009 at 1:23 pmExcellent point Bilbo! This reminds me of the republican myth that Barney Frank was solely responsible for Fannie & Freddie even though he was in the powerless minority party at the time.
May 8th, 2009 at 1:31 pmWar Crimes are not a partisan issue.
Crimes are a matter of law.
Appoint a Special Prosecutor.
Follow the evidence wherever it leads.
Indict whoever the evidence points to.
Convict and lock up the guilty.
Republican or Democrat doesn’t matter.
May 8th, 2009 at 1:31 pmA war criminal is a war criminal.
Accountability and Justice matter.
In the end it’s America world. Do has we say, not as we do.
May 8th, 2009 at 1:37 pmPelosi said she was briefed, but that the techniques weren’t being used. Didn’t she wonder why the hell they were talking to her? This thing stinks to high heaven. And the thing that makes it stink is her refusal to even consider impeaching Bush/Cheney. This was CYA, pure and simple.
Nancy has been a severe disappointment, and she and Harry need to go — now.
This is a distraction, people. It’s taking our eyes off the Republicans continuing to support and suborn torture, and onto stupid old Nancy. They are trying to make the Democrats own torture, as in: “Nancy knew about the torture, and she didn’t stop us! It’s HER fault!”
May 8th, 2009 at 1:38 pmDoesn’t the oath to uphold the Constitution supersede non-disclosure? And being afraid of being charged with treason is not an excuse. If we expect people to go into harms way in the military where people are really shooting at them a MOC should be able to muster the moxie to stand trial and bring things out publicly.
Sorry, appoint the special prosecutor and go after everyone complicit in the war crimes. This isn’t a partisan issue, it is our country.
May 8th, 2009 at 1:38 pmI voted for President Obama as well Uncle fester,..Having said that may I add I agree with you latest post and I try to be patient but my patience is running very thin lately..
Noticed all the representative’s in the house and senate are getting raises per usual and many other thing’s pointing to a continuation of bush madness are staying in place or expanding..Cases in point we are still supplying Israel with all the military might to kill all their neighbor’s, we are now bombing the shit out of Pakestine,Iraq and Afg…So in effect we are supplying the constant war machines on 4 front’s..What the hell ever happended to Peace..?
I am not a bit pleased with some of President Obamas pick’s and not a bit afraid of saying so….The phone company is coming out to see why my phone is being tapped..LOL…Not kidding on the last one..Happy posting and many Blessings.
May 8th, 2009 at 1:38 pmIndeed. Whenever the Democrats work up a head of steam, you’ll notice someone pops in to say “Well, both parties are the same. They’re both corrupt,” and our resolve instantly fizzles.
This happens over and over, but we of the left always fall for it. That’s why the “both parties are the same” meme is heard so often on the corporate media: it utterly cripples the left.
It’s a bit embarrassing. Imagine the Republicans blowing a chance like this to nail the other side.
Xe Technology: To Purify America
May 8th, 2009 at 1:48 pmtime to drain the swamp
until we do nothing will change in wash
cannot be fixed but with full drainage
putting new water in old muddy bottle
oh but lets do the hope thing first
much easier but will not work
ask any organizational consultant
must change the system
May 8th, 2009 at 1:50 pmJohn Durham, Justice Dept, Special counsel is actually ratcheting up his probe into the CIA’s destruction of interrogation tapes. There is a witness Ali Soufan, a former FBI agent who will testify regarding the torture.
The torture and who knew what when, will all come out. Did Pelosi know and shut up ? Well what politician succeeds in Washington and stays clean ? Hopefully the pressure will stay on from some in the media.
May 8th, 2009 at 1:52 pmZooey Says:
Pelosi said she was briefed, but that the techniques weren’t being used. Didn’t she wonder why the hell they were talking to her? This thing stinks to high heaven. And the thing that makes it stink is her refusal to even consider impeaching Bush/Cheney. This was CYA, pure and simple.
Ok Zooey, here’s the scenario:
You were given a top secret briefing where you were not allowed to take notes or record the proceedings. The rules of the House forbid you to reveal the contents of the top secret briefing. You also know that if you attempt to blow the whistle on them it will be your word against theirs. And at the time this was happening, the people were still believing the lies they were being told.
So Zooey, tell me what you would have done if you were in Pelosi’s shoes.
May 8th, 2009 at 1:55 pmI was wondering who would be lame enough to trot this diversion out. Congratulations.
May 8th, 2009 at 1:56 pmAlso, Sen Sheldon Whitehouse will start hearings on May 13th. He plans on calling Philip Zelikow (aide to Condi). Zlikow was on Rachel Maddow’s show saying, “he was trying to change things from within.” And just happened to keep that healthy salary at the same time. All the rats are running for cover.
May 8th, 2009 at 1:58 pmAlmost all of Congress is guilty of giving the Bush administration a green light to launch a preventive war. I’ll be content to see the Bush administration prosecuted for that and torture. It would also send a strong message to Congress—maybe not as strong as an envelope full of anthrax, but it should make them think about their culpability and their place on the food chain.
May 8th, 2009 at 1:58 pmBilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
So Zooey, tell me what you would have done if you were in Pelosi’s shoes.
May 8th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
I would have kept impeachment on the table.
May 8th, 2009 at 1:59 pmSounds like those who administered and planned torture are trying to threaten maximally Democrats to prevent any further investigations. Likewise the threats to look into ‘rendition’ under Clinton, when Holder was in the DOJ: ‘Don’t pursue this or we will smear you with this brush, too.” But under Clinton, there were no torture memos, pressure to torture, or otherwise maltreat prisoners.
May 8th, 2009 at 2:01 pmJust why would anyone call for a totally unaccountable meeting? And even more to the point, why would anyone attend such a meeting?
If that is the way our government is being run, we need a new government.
May 8th, 2009 at 2:05 pmTracy_5, the ignorance or lack of concern for this problem of torture by those on the right is…what word am I looking for?
May 8th, 2009 at 2:06 pmIn Pelosi’s case we must also look into Senator Durbins case when he was one of the senators from the intelligence committee who sat in on the intelligence briefings with the Bush administration on the run up to the war with Iraq.
Senator Durbin two years after the war began admitted that he and others in the briefing knew that the intelligence they were shown by the Bush administration was cherry picked and manipulated but Durbin and the other senators were forbidden to speak out publically about what they saw due to National Security and the threat of prison.
What is wrong with this country when one of our elected officials knows something is wrong, something that will push us into a unnecessary war, put our soldiers in harms way, cost our country billions of dollars but these elected officials are stonewalled from speaking out due the National Security label and the threat of imprisonment. Where are our true American Patriots today?
May 8th, 2009 at 2:12 pmTracy_5, I was wondering, what is it like being a republican these days? Knowing that your party is being led by clowns such as Rush, Palin, Bachmann, Savage, Hannity. Knowing that your party, it’s failed policies and tired, hateful rhetoric is going the way of the dinosaur. Is it tough getting through the day knowing your party has become a National joke?
May 8th, 2009 at 2:15 pm# 68 Uncle Fester and Lady Z.”.I would of kept impeachment on the table”, Bravo to both and Thank you for posting..Back to my regular chores of the day..P.B. & J.
May 8th, 2009 at 2:18 pmTracy_5, does it bother you that as the information comes out that there are quite probably Dems involved in the whole war crimes deal that the call for investigation isn’t dimming?
That, just maybe accountability isn’t partisan driven?
May 8th, 2009 at 2:20 pmSo, we invaded Iraq, removed the Dictator Saddam for killing his own people. How is what bush did any different ? We have over 4000 soldiers dead and how many Iraqi citizens? Bush/cheney should be tried for lying America into a war and for making the lawyers write memos to cover their torture. How many, many times did bush say, “we don’t torture.” What they did is a million times worse than Pelosi.
May 8th, 2009 at 2:24 pmThe Bush Crime Family is guilty and the Rethuglicans need to stop trying to drag Nancy Pelosi into their mess.
May 8th, 2009 at 2:25 pmConviction for war crimes should be started, forget impeachment.
May 8th, 2009 at 2:26 pmI haven’t read all of the comments but I have read a couple of Marcy’s posts at Firedoglake and it looks like the reporting from ABC is probably in error. Looks like the documents from the CIA don’t list the Speaker being in any of the briefings and also that the documents are pretty crappy and shouldn’t be used for any reporting. The CIA doesn’t even stand behind them.
May 8th, 2009 at 2:26 pmHoodathunktick Says:
May 8th, 2009 at 2:28 pmThat, just maybe accountability isn’t partisan driven?
“““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““`
WORD!
I agree Texaslady, but remember the Nueremberg trials. Yes, first and foremost we should be putting those who pushed for the use of torture on trial and than investigate those who knew about and enabled it after Bush and Cheney are swinging from ropes.
May 8th, 2009 at 2:31 pmTracy_5,
if you had half a brain, you’d realize that the majority of posters on this thread want Pelosi to be investigated just like anyone else who was involved, with active emphasis on this being a non-partisan idea. the fact that you come here and try to make it into a partisan ‘dems did it toooooo’ argument is moronic, and only proves that you have nothing to say, because you are still in grade school.
I’m proud of the pained look on Maddow’s face. Maybe it’s the responsibility of calling out possible wrongdoing where one sees it, maybe it’s the burden of integrity. At least that exists within the Democratic party and leftward, whereas the right punishes those that step out of line with a vengeance.
May 8th, 2009 at 2:33 pmtexaslady Says: What they did is a million times worse than Pelosi.
While I appreciate the sentiment and agree the active promulgators of these war crimes are far guiltier, if there were people who allowed these heinous crimes to happen, they need to be brought to justice as well. Knowing a crime was being committed and remaining silent is not only becoming complicit in the crime, it is cowardice.
May 8th, 2009 at 2:45 pmAnyone in government could have been labeled an “enemy combatant” by the president. These briefings took place before the courts reinstated habeus corpus. I hope Congress is at least quite sorry they passed the Patriot Act.
May 8th, 2009 at 2:49 pmHoodathunk – It begins at the ones issuing the orders. I agree if you know of a crime being committed you are also guilty by association but it begins with the ones at the top. Also, in the CIA and military you are owned by the government at the time. Refusing to carry out orders is jail time.
May 8th, 2009 at 2:58 pmLets not forget what it was like to question the bush administration in the early years, dissenters were banished, jobs dried up in the media can anyone forget the Pat Tillman episode ? Strange that Pat’s death came when he was about to speak against the war.
May 8th, 2009 at 3:04 pmWhat did she know and when did she know it ? –
?Deepthroat is back ?
And I tend to agree with the comments above in that when Pelosi removed impeachment from the table, she got drawn into working with the Bush Cabal into at least a conspiracy to cover it up, it not outright enabling the torture.
May 8th, 2009 at 3:07 pmThe comment that Pelosi put impeachment on the back burner to win the election has merit. I wonder how many would have turned against their party if they felt under attack.
May 8th, 2009 at 3:16 pmThe repubs were so rightous because Clinton lied, but here their Pres and V.P lied us into war to the Congress and it is no big deal. Everyone should be outraged and demand justice.
May 8th, 2009 at 3:18 pmPelosi, who took ‘Impeachment Off the table’, knew very well what was going on! She betrayed the American people who voted for her and voted for the democrats in 2006.
In the US there are two political parties and one policy!
Obama is continuing the Wars/Occupation of Iraq and escalating the war in Afehganistan. The US is quietly building a Mega Miltray Base in Afehganistan, under Oba Oba, which dwarfs the Bahgdad obscene Embassy.
Republicans or Democrats… they both stink!
May 8th, 2009 at 3:23 pmSo # 86 how would you handle Pakistan and the mess that bush created in Afganistan ? At least Obama realizes the mess, at least he is talking with the Middle East instead of name calling and alientating anyone who might help.
May 8th, 2009 at 3:29 pmIf Pelosi knew, what exactly could she have done ? It takes more than one whistle blower to stop a bulldozer like bush/cheney.
Being an enabeler to a crime and knowing about it I believe is called ” acting in concert”…It there for make’s the enabeler just as guilty….Attorney at law people here?,,,Correct me if I am wrong…Cough!….Blessings
May 8th, 2009 at 3:34 pmWho really thinks Pelosi could have prevented what bush/cheney put into place ? Perhaps I have read too many Tom Clancy books but I believe small aircraft crashes happen to those who speak out.
May 8th, 2009 at 3:37 pmTracy 5 you are lying through your teeth. New housing starts off first time in years. New jobs, not the high paying ones. Texas isn’t bad but layoffs are happening in all walks of careers. And you may want to check which counties went red, repubs are hanging on by their pocketbooks.
May 8th, 2009 at 3:58 pmDUMP PELOSI.
May 8th, 2009 at 4:17 pmshe is a LOSER and a LIABILITY.
No wonder Pelosi took investigation and indictment off the table so early. Out here we did wonder if she had been black mailed during all the nsa listening. She was afraid it would come out that she knew. And whether they said water boarding specifically, she knew what ENHANCED INTERROGATION meant. We all do.
She should not only lose her speaker seat, but she should be forced to resign. ETHICS. Expediency is Pelosi’s name. This phony liberal. All of them that knew what was happening should be forced out. And if Obama still dances around his obligation and his LEGAL AND MORAL DUTY, then we should impeach him.
I am tired to death of a muffled morality that permeates this country. We just finished eight years of it. Are we supposed to go through it again? You don’t have to be some pseudo born again anything to know the rules. We all know them. No country especially ours, has the right to muddy up the waters of right and wrong because they are inconvenient.
I say fire the broad. Get someone else as Speaker who can do the job without rolling over on ethics. Someone who does not have a reason to cover her rear politically or morally. And march Jane Harman to the door while they are at it.
Pelosi is an immoral liar. How else do you put it? Going along with torture is no gray area. She has grandchildren. How would she feel seeing one of hers being tortured, by the very methods she signed off on?
May 8th, 2009 at 4:32 pmAnn Coulter? She’s a psycho freak shock jock like Howard Stern.
and Rush and Savage and….
May 8th, 2009 at 5:00 pmAt least Howard used to be funny.
Hi Proud:
May 8th, 2009 at 5:02 pmShall we have that philosophical discussion about truth again?
The only people who trust Nancy Pelosi are Republicans. When will a real Democrat be elected Speaker of the House?
May 8th, 2009 at 5:03 pmStern was never funny.
—
May 8th, 2009 at 5:25 pmOh come on Butt Bongo Fiesta was a riot. Hey Hey Butt Bongo…
Imus is and always has been a mumbling cokehead…
May 8th, 2009 at 5:30 pmwith a dumbass hat which may even be a more dumbass hat than the Drudge clown…
May 8th, 2009 at 5:30 pmI respect that many here aren’t partisan on the issue. I’ll play devil’s advocate.
Public support for the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was better than 80% in 1945. But, is more like 50% today. I believe the difference is in the time proximity to the conflict with Japan. As the threat abated, so did the preceived appropriateness of the bombings.
When the decisions to waterboard were being made, we were in much closer time proximity to the threats realized after 9/11. As that threat abated, so did the preceived appropriateness for the waterboarding.
It’s not an excuse for the decision to waterboard. But, it is an alternative explaination for Pelosi’s silence.
What is obviously a bad idea today, may not have been so obvious in light of the unknown threat we faced shortly after 9/11.
May 8th, 2009 at 5:32 pmAs I recall, Abu Zubaydah had been waterboarded over 80 times in just the month preceeding this “briefing”. Given the ground rules this “briefing” was nothing more than a CYA move by the CIA to shift responsibility to Pelosi and others. Because the CIA destroyed documents the best they can now come up with is “recollections” on who they talked to and what they might have said — hardly a smoking gun.
More can be read in this link
May 8th, 2009 at 6:47 pmOf course Pelosi knew. CIA records show she was briefed in Sept. of 2002. How many briefings do you need to be considered briefed, apparently one is not enough.
Now she’s parsing her words.
I predict we see some backing down on this one!
May 8th, 2009 at 7:12 pmMost of you are missing the point…
Pelosi was shown classified information. She could NOT take what she learned and share it with other Congress critters. Not only that, but it didn’t matter what her thought was on the documents anyway, because as Condi criminally pointed out recently….the Bush Regime changed/redefined the laws and if the president says it’s legal….then it is!
I am one of the few who believe Pelosi when she says she (or anyone in the committee were told that those techniques were already being use nor would they be used. Bush & Cheney wanted to torture. They wanted to go back to the ‘good ole days of the midwest’ like a couple of cowboys. Of course, they’re war criminals!
Nancy was completely against the Iraq invasion/occupation, so why the hell would she be okay with the CIA setting up secret prisons to torture people…or to torture anyone? It doesn’t make sense.
May 8th, 2009 at 7:24 pmExactly! And who are the Bush/Cheney supporters blaming for torture? Nancy! This is what they want, so the REAL WAR CRIMINALS CAN CONTINUE TO GO FREE!
May 8th, 2009 at 7:26 pmI wonder what Denny Hastert (republican Speaker of the House until 200t when he handed the reins over to Nancy Pelosi) knew about the Bush Regime torturing prisoners in secret prisons across the planet?
May 8th, 2009 at 7:28 pmYou’re joking, right?
65 members of Congress were involved in 40 different briefings on the techniques being used.
If you believe our leaders guilty of illegal acts, you can’t just blame your favorite Republicans and leave the rest of Congress out of this!
May 8th, 2009 at 7:38 pmSo if President Obama decides to round up neocons in America after labeling them ‘domestic enemy combatants’ and tortures them in secret prisons around the world after having briefed the Congress of his intentions and showing them what his attorneys have deemed as legal, you’d be okay with that? You would blame the republicans and not the Democrats?
In 2002, the republicans controlled Congress, so therefore, they also controlled the committees:
Nancy was on the House Intelligence Committee, but she wasn’t the leader of it. She was the ranking Democrat and if you followed the republicans up until 2006 when they lost control of the House & Senate, you would know that THEY BASICALLY GAVE THE FINGER TO THE DEMOCRATS ALL THAT TIME.
May 8th, 2009 at 7:53 pmThe republicans controlled from 2002-2006:
THE WHITE HOUSE
THE U.S.SENATE
THE U.S. HOUSE
One party government, you know, the kind of government the right wingers are freaking about today, because the Democrats are in control. Hypocrites.
May 8th, 2009 at 7:54 pmPelosi is a liar, hawk and war profiteer. The people of her district should excise this loathsome tumor from Congress.
May 8th, 2009 at 8:55 pmWith all due respect to TP, this Pelosi apologist thread is crap!
If Pelosi and now the butt-covering Panetta claim it’s all, like, kinda murky what Pelosi knew, then why did Harman, the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, warn in a 2003 letter that destroying videotapes of terrorist interrogations would put the CIA under a cloud of suspicion?
Why would Harman feel compelled to write such a letter?
Also this:
Granted, it very well could be political moves and countermoves, however, Pelosi wasn’t elected to be a doormat for bush’s Geneva violations.
The idea that any elected official, put into office to protect the public trust, would actually advance the excuse that she was briefed, no she wasn’t, well maybe, but her hands were tied and she couldn’t, no way, address the blatant violations of the Constitution, not to mention a plethora of treaties, is so asinine as to be enough to trigger a full independent investigation.
Pelosi was complicit, Harman’s letter casts serious doubt on Pelosi’s tale of ‘helpless’ woe. Besides, I frankly don’t want or need someone in the Majority Leader position who can be so easily punk’d:
Mukasey and Hayden: “Shut up about our torture, Nancy!”
Pelosi: “Oh, okay…”
TP, I’m not impressed. Whomever wrote this tripe isn’t improving your credibility.
May 8th, 2009 at 8:57 pmI did not know that the Democrats has that many chickens……someting is making them come home to roost…better grab a shovel this is going to be a looooooonng hot summer.
May 8th, 2009 at 10:07 pmI want everyone in Congress who knew about this and stood by and let it happen to be held accountable. I don’t care who they are or whether they’re an R or a D. And I don’t care how long it takes. It’s about the rule of law, and whether or not the United States is going to go forward as a nation of laws.
May 9th, 2009 at 12:24 amI’ve got lobsters Jane…..
May 9th, 2009 at 12:25 amI don’t know what Pelosi knew. From the “wriggle room” provided by the CIA, it sounds as if they are trying to say they are not sure either. One thing is sure, however. The Republican President, Vice-President, and his staff worked out the logistics of all of this. You don’t change the morality or immorality of an action by saying that somebody else knew about it.
May 9th, 2009 at 3:48 amFirst of all just because some of you say the EIT’s were torture doesn’t make them torture.
And these terrorists aren’t automatically provided protections as some believe anyway. Read the treaties.
For our President to have stood by and not approved the use of harsh interrogation techniques on terrorists who insinuated another attack would happen soon, thus allowing the killing of more American citizens, would have been an immorality of the highest degree.
May 9th, 2009 at 10:57 amDid you really use the word “anyways”???
May 9th, 2009 at 4:45 pmNo, I didn’t.
Is that all you have as a response?
May 9th, 2009 at 7:15 pm______
KayInMaine Says:
Most of you are missing the point…
Pelosi was shown classified information. She could NOT take what she learned and share it with other Congress critters.
May 8th, 2009 at 7:24 pm
______
That’s an interesting theory you have there. The Administration can show a Congressperson evidence that they are breaking the law, and as long as the evidence is classified, the Congressperson can take no action? It’s too bad there’s not some system in place to deal with such a situation. ;)
May 10th, 2009 at 2:09 amseslichat
May 10th, 2009 at 11:41 pmsesli chat
sesli sohbet
seslisohbet
Pelosi knew but could not tell cause she did not want a Cheney anthrax letter.
Duh
911=Inside Job
We live in a fascist police state folks!
May 11th, 2009 at 9:07 amHopefully Obama and his goons will consider waterboarding Pelosi to get the facts out of her. Then everyone will be able to see that useful intel can be readily obtained in a simple, safe, and effective manner.
May 11th, 2009 at 10:50 pmNot sure why everyone is going on about who knew what and when, other than the fact that Pelosi is lying. I for one think we should continue to use water boarding on terrorists. I don’t think it’s enough for people that have no problem beheading and using their bodies as human bombs. Since when do they get rights. Trust me if someone in your family was in danger with one of these terrorists you would agree to have them do anything to get information to save them.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:35 pm